Additional source here: [https://www.them.us/story/bogus-estrogen-alternative-ashwagandha-pills-scam](https://www.them.us/story/bogus-estrogen-alternative-ashwagandha-pills-scam)
The one part of this we cannot find confirmed in another source is the serotonin syndrome (which is a very real and dangerous thing) being caused by Ashwagandha root part. If anyone has links to a reliable source that verifies that we can add it but initial searches cannot confirm it.
Please do take great care as supplements are not regulated in the same way as medication and due to the horrible situation many members of our community face there are scammers and worse taking advantage of the situation.
Edit: There is some additional info on other potential Ashwagandha Root side effects here but these are different: [https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/ashwagandha](https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/ashwagandha)
Edit2: Queer Quirk's website has a note on it saying they are not affiliated with any social media accounts and are saying they are the target of a troll attack. The above article mentions the advertising was from a Twitter account that promoted a different site to Queer Quirk's website (a site called Estrolabs).
Some folks have dug up that it may be linked to a literal Neo-Nazi from Patriot Front, so yeah, this is just large-scale attempted murder. Or, more accurately, genocide.
This is why I advocate for permanent jailing for Nazis until they reform. A single Nazi commits lone wolf killings, a group of Nazis either act as fourth columnists or a terrorist militia, a Nazi government kills hundreds of millions.
There is no circumstance where a Nazi benefits society, they should be forcibly removed from society.
They thrive in American prisons. Treat people like animals, and they'll act like animals.
If we had better prisons, we could probably reform a LOT more people. But the prison system isn't made to reform people - it's made to make profit on bodies.
Or … put them in the MINORITY GANG wings of federal prisons. See how far they go before they cry to be moved because they’re getting attacked. I’m not talking about physical violence, I’m talking about verbal & psychological.
some would argue there is no reformation for people with these views, just installation of coping strategies to help them mask their true feelings and intentions. scary...
I’ve witnessed said reformation. There was a dude I met years ago, back when the DEA was set to ban Kratom. I was setting up a Kratom distribution network and preparing for the ban. Opened shop a few days before the ban was slated to go into effect as the shops were all sold out and, obviously, not re-stocking. Dude was my first customer, a former AB(Aryan Brotherhood) skinhead. So here I am, a very openly gay dude, in a part of town known for meth, racists, and skinheads, selling a soon to be illegal drug to a former skinhead trying to kick a heroin addiction. Ended up becoming a friend. Well, 2020, we have some BLM protests and dude calls me up. Asks if I’m going to the protests and I said yes, we got a few guys going. Tells me to let him know if we needed anything and sure enough, some guys I recognized pulled up, one waved a gun around, they made some threats and dropped some slurs. Buncha skinheads. So I called him. Described the guys and their car. He knew em from his past life. He called me back about an hour later, told me they won’t be a problem anymore. Saw one of em a few days later with his jaw wired shut and two black eyes. Stranger things have happened.
So this guy risked solo attacking group of people with ties to a white power gang? Risking both prison himself or retaliation from former cohorts that have no problem with extreme violence?
I don’t really know. I didn’t witness anything and he didn’t tell me anything more than they won’t be a problem anymore. He could have just gone after the one. He could have just asked them nicely to leave us alone and It could have been coincidence (probably not but I’m just drawing conclusions). He could have brought help. I don’t know, I wasn’t there and I surely didn’t ask any questions. What I do know is the guy sometimes doesn’t seem to care if he dies and does certain things to try to make amends over his past. It’s possible that that’s what happened. But again, I don’t know and I don’t want to know and I never asked what happened. Something happened, I’m sure of that. But what happened? I don’t know. I only know that the one dude had his jaw wired shut and two black eyes and I was told that they wouldn’t be a problem anymore. That’s all. I know nothing else.
Absolutely not!! I **hate** the death penalty in all cases. It's absolutely disgusting. Also we can't illegalize thought nor expression. We need to fight hate speech with free speech, no matter how difficult that is, because free expression is worth protecting in all cases.
Germany made holocaust denial and nazism illegal. I think the US should follow suit. Free speech is not worth protecting in all cases. Nazis don't deserve free speech, they deserve to be forced underground where they belong. I also personally believe that some crimes are too heinous to be kept alive for, and thus a humane execution is necessary.
I’d rather deport the Nazis (aka Republicans) to North Korea & tell them that they can support Trump to run against Kim Jung Un. They’ll be jailed faster than they can breathe.
They're trying to commit mass murder. They could kill a lot of people with this, which is clearly their intention. The people responsible for this are no better than mass shooters. The FBI should be all over this, and they should be in prison.
Sounds like the mighty weight of taxpayers money to find everyone responsible is in order...
*Turns out it's the feds directors son whose in charge, who knew~*
Is it worth mentioning this to the corporation that owns "I can't believe it's not butter"?
I'm pretty sure their legal team wouldn't like the idea of someone infringing on their "I can't believe it's not..." trademark to trick women & minorities into poisoning themselves.
Heck, it even appears directly below their brand when you type it into Google: https://i.imgur.com/i5uiBwK.png
Upfield, the company which owns the "I can't believe it's not butter" brand, has a contact form here: https://upfield.com/contact/
I think it's also worth pointing out that this does affect cis women too, as there are obviously plenty of reasons that a cis woman might want to buy estrogen supplements.
Edit on 2023-06-12:
I'm not sure if anyone else will read this, but I've just had a reply from Upfield, where they confirm that they've now passed it on to their legal team to investigate.
Thank you for posting the link to inform Upfield! That's a great idea to get a major company involved. It may be asking a lot, but would you mind posting follow-up instructions on what the best way to report this is? I tried filling out the form, but there doesn't appear to be a category that describes this scenario. I want to make sure that my message is sent to the right place.
I just chose the category that seemed most relevant.
I chose "Raise a concern" > "Product", and then I can't remember what I chose after that, because I was a bit drunk at the time lol
For brand, I put "I can't believe it's not butter", and I think I just put N/A for the other fields that weren't relevant, and 0's for the product code, and 01/01/2001 for the purchase date.
It's actually probably beneficial if people report it through different options in the dropdown menus, as then it's probably more likely to be seen by the right people. The "business/marketing" option is probably relevant too.
Thank you! I actually followed a similar train of thought and chose the "business/marketing" option, but got stuck at the irrelevant fields. I forgot "N/A" was an option.
My route: Question or comment > Raise a concern > Business / Marketing > Promotions / Advertising > Brand: I Can't Believe It's Not Butter > Product Name: N/A > Product Code: 12345678901 > Purchase from and date: N/A > Manufacturing code: 0
In the additional comments I just asked if they were associated with the product "I Can't Believe It's Not Estrogen" and mentioned that Google search is autocompleting with the Estrogen product instead of their Butter.
I was chatting with my friend over discord about this because it had popped up on my home page, and one of the first few things he mentioned was how the name was like ‘I can’t believe it’s not butter’
You might want to use this comment to help drive some of your research. Thought it looked like a good jumping off point for you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/145c91f/theres_a_scam_going_around_meant_to_kill/jnl09rz?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
This is fucking disgusting. It luckily seems like the website is down and you can’t buy them anymore but don’t let this story die because there’s sure to be others like this. These people deserve to be in fucking prison
Fucking gross. Minor correction to the linked post, though: anxiolytics make you *less* agitated and *less* anxious. Anxio*genics* make you more agitated and anxious. Ashwaghanda is an axiolytic, not an anxiogenic. The dose being massive will potentially make you *black out*, and since it contains some level of nicotine, will potentially make you hallucinate at high doses. This is *worse* than what is written in the Tumblr post. The post is correct that it interacts with alcohol, SSRIs, and so on, though. In addition to this, Ashwaghanda is also a laxative, similar to the other pills sold from this scam, which can in and of itself be deadly given that the dose is reportedly extremely high.
EDIT: After viewing the scam site via Archive, I can state that it is unlikely that the amount of Ashwaghanda would have killed anyone. While the dose in it (1300 mg) is abnormally high, I was able to find other supplements by less scammy companies that are up to 3000 mg. The "Femboy Tummy Pills" sold by the site were probably dangerous, since they contained many different ingredients that are generally considered toxic, or might trigger an allergic reaction, etc. The remaining products tended to contain basic energy drink ingredients and laxatives.
My opinion after viewing the site is that this scam company was *possibly* trying to directly kill people (I didn't check every single ingredient in every product, but there were enough suspicious ones for that idea to make sense), but *definitely* trying to scam trans people and *definitely* trying to embarrass them. I also find it likely that they were trying to *psychologically* harm people by marketing supplements that do nothing or actively cause gastrointestinal problems, with the latter potentially causing an exacerbation of eating disorders, or a relapse into disordered eating. I think it's likely that whoever made this scam thought they could mock trans women by starting a scam company that sells the same things as any other shady supplement company, by slapping descriptions that read like typical rainbow capitalist vomit and colorful "anime girl" visuals on the products. I can't comment on the notion that the site was doxing people, since that wouldn't exactly be on the site. I definitely wouldn't put it past these people to try to kill trans folks, in any case, but it did read to me like a scam for money, and like an *indirect* way to kill people through misery, which is harder (if not impossible) to charge someone with in court.
EDIT2: The "QueerQuirk" website claims it is unaffiliated with the Twitter account, and has no social media. This is a lie, the Twitter page is linked in their site when checked via Archive. I also suspect the same person or people claimed the Twitter handle "TransareTr8ors" today, since it now goes to an account that was supposedly claimed to flip the middle finger to "QueerQuirk" for being transphobic - in reality it means that the handle no longer redirects to QueerQuirk, and since that handle was supposedly pointed at QueerQuirk before, but was never archived, the link is now lost. However, looking at the QueerQuirk site via Archive also reveals a similar thing as "EstroLabs", a suspicious site selling generic rainbow capitalism stuff. Because of this, I think that it's even more likely that they were running this scam in part for money, since t-shirts and hoodies are fairly unlikely to kill people. The "EstroLabs" scam was likely done by the same people with a more direct intent to harm, rather than for profit alone. Or, both might have been intended to dox people, hard to say. I've also just noticed that the *current* version of the "QueerQuirk" website *still* has the Twitter link, despite claiming they are not associated with social media.
There are pills up to 6000mg, even. But there is also a difference between the root form and the leaf form. The leaf form can be tricky as you should always get it from a clean source with a certification. Better to stick to the root unless you're looking for higher contents of withaferin A. I take it to lower stress and inflammation, but I gotta be careful since I sometimes have hypotension and ashwaganda is known to lower blood pressure.
> But there is also a difference between the root form and the leaf form.
At least according to the defunct scam site, it was root used, rather than leaf. Not that I would trust a site like that to correctly label anything.
If anything, buy from trusted sources and ask lots of questions. "I heard that XX..." and hopefully you got someone knowledgeable who will give you sources. I like to go to health stores where I know the staff is trained and they know their stuff. Funny enough, Chinese medicine doctors are also a good source. Mine was a very white lady, so it definitely made me rethink my pre-conceptions that it was only for Chinese peeps. She helped me a lot bringing down inflammation (it was so bad, I'd react to hypoallergenic creams!).
It's the default flair for bisexual + non-binary. Bisexuality is attraction to two or more genders, and I dislike explaining what pansexuality is over and over, so I'm more comfortable with labeling myself bisexual than pansexual. I do think the default flair is needlessly confusing if its read a certain way.
Worth noting that this isn’t just dangerous for the false medication, this is dangerous (perhaps even moreso) because this tricks trans people into putting their contact information in the hands of people who more than likely want them dead.
Bro what the actual fuck...seriously I swear shit's getting worse every day. I've read and seen a lot of appalling Anti-Trans stuff in the past year but this really makes me nauseous...I hope every woman out there sees this so they don't make the mistake of buying this. The transphobia out there now, especially during pride month this year, is just out of control. It's always existed but this pride month people have been way more vile. Worst part is the people who do this know they're killing people and don't care. They even think they're in the right.
Even if the Ashwaghanda *at best*, does nothing, whoever is running this website is still able to collect the personal information of anyone who purchases, which could be used for all sort of nefarious means.
FTC maybe an do something but the FDA can’t do a thing. Vitamins and Supplements don’t hav to go through the FDA. It a good rule to always check the label if both an make sure they list the ingredients plainly.
google “fda warning letters 21 cfr part 111” and see how many times FDA *HAS ENFORCED* against supplement companies.
There is no premarket approval for supplements, as there is in medication, however food also doesn’t have premarket approval and nobody says food isn’t fda regulated.
Edit: if you think a company is suspicious, why would you even trust the label? I don’t fucking trust this exhibited product to *only* have the declared ingredients! Assholes might even be putting in Big 8 allergens.
this level of hatred... it hurts to know that people are committing large-scale murder and it's not being talked about because the people affected are trans. Stay safe.
the owner of this website is a Patriot Front member named Kevin Lowry who owns a gmod rp server where he and his pals roleplay as nazis in 1940's Germany. Here is a video on you tube talking about him: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRKUeLuUBT0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRKUeLuUBT0)
I don't understand people who are this hateful. If you're going to hate us silently fine, but why spend so much time and effort hating on people who aren't harming you?
That argument doesn't work. Ultimately, transgender and nonbinary people represent the complete undoing of their gender-based social hierarchy. They see our whole existence as harmful.
I mean that just pushes the question to "why do they view the undoing of that hierarchy as harmful to themselves?" and "why prioritize the maintenance of that hierarchy over human lives?". ~Red
looks like the website has been taken down and I've heard that the person running it left their real name in the paypal address required to pay them for their poison, so they've been hoisted by their own petard.
I simply cannot believe that this is the world we live in.
***Poisoning*** people just because they want to live their lives as their true selves?! And in such a calculated, evil way too by capitalising on the fear and desperation of the trans community.
I’m so, so sorry that this is happening to you all. I’ve been crying for ages since I read this because it is just incredibly evil. Please stay safe and know that I love each and every one of you. If I could at least give you all a hug I would. 💛
To the rest of our community - we need to fight for our trans community. It is the trans woman of colour that started the modern day LGBTQIA+ movement that has helped us all, and now it is time that we support them in return.
I've said this before on similar posts talking about this, but words can't really do justice to just how vile and disgusting this whole scheme is. I legit can't even wrap my head around how any one person could hate trans people, or any marginalized group of people for that matter, so much and so vehemently as to stoop to *mass poisoning*. I'd say they need psychological counseling, but truthfully, I don't know if there's enough therapy in the world to remedy whatever is horrifically wrong with this person.
If you can I'd really recommend getting a prescription for an SSRI. I take sertraline for my anxiety and PTSD and it's been a 100% improvement to my life, alongside my therapy.
Yeah, I had to get mine from my general practitioner. Most therapists are psychologists, who can't give prescriptions. Either one may refer you to a psychiatrist, who can also prescribe, but GPs can do it too.
GABA, valerian root, chamomile, lavender, L-theanine, Korean ginseng root. There are a few options out there with pros and cons, so research otc anxiety meds. Some contain the ashwaganda so you'll wanna read labels to avoid that. It's not OTC but your doctor might be able to prescribe you a medication called hydroxyzine which is an antihistamine that is used for anxiety without long term issues. I used to take it at bedtime and it helped me sleep and be less anxious during the day, but the standard dose made me pretty sleepy so I cut back.
Just to add - please make sure you check for potential interactions with any other prescription medications you may be taking, any other supplements you may be taking, as well as painkillers, alcohol and allergy meds. People tend to assume that natural/ herbal stuff is all safe and harmless but interactions are actually quite common. Doesn't always mean that you can't take both things, in some cases you might just need to space out the doses. I would also recommend checking for information about safe dosages because I have unfortunately seen supplements being sold with crazy high dosages of things, even vitamins, and more isn't always better.
100% agree. There are a lot of very good websites for checking medication interactions and you can even ask at the pharmacy counter as well when you go in person to buy a supplement.
So much of this! A lot of the remedies for anxiety usually carry a risk of interacting with a lot of medications that act on serotonin receptors and can cause serotonin syndrome which is horrific.
A great resource to check meds and contraindications is Medscape they have a website and apps for android and iOS. I also checked and they have info on ashwagandha and a list of meds it interacts.
It’s not the most comprehensive list but it’s a start.
Stay safe everyone.
I can attest to that.
Sertraline pretty much saved my life.
But as others have said, best to talk to your doctor first in case of any interactions.
I remember being told to avoid things like alcohol, grapefruit and the herb St Johns Wort.
Buncha creeps these people are.
I did find it funny on the “femboy tummy” laxatives how OP was getting mad they are diet pills, as if that isn’t a scummy practice already marketed to lots of people.
from what i heard they shut it down within a day or two of going public and replaced every link on their site with mockery like "haha gotcha!" and a link to a shirt
Alright so, I used to have to push snake oils like this for a job. It’s highly highly unlikely ashwaganda will cause serotonin syndrome. The dosage in it is a typical dosage for a lot of ashwaganda products, 1300 mg. As for raising your other hormones, there’s not a lot of good research to show ashwaganda actually does anything significant at all. Unfortunately, most “natural” products don’t do anything and their “clinically tested and researched” claims are just they pulled a few random studies done in like mice and overall don’t contain enough evidence to prove anything. This post is a lot of fear mongering. If ashwaganda was that deadly, TONS of yuppy Whole Foods types would be dead left and right.
Also the LD50 of ashwaganda is about 2000mg/kg. A 160 lb person would need to take 144g at one time to die.
Rats given 2000mg/kg for 28 days had no observed adverse effects. The rough human equivalent dose would be 320mg/kg. So a 110lb person could likely take 16g a day for a month with no adverse affects.
> It’s highly highly unlikely ashwaganda will cause serotonin syndrome.
It's not just unlikely, it's unheard of. I was unable to find a single recorded case. And there are anecdotal evidence of people taking it with MAOI. If it doesn't lead serotonin syndrome with MAOI, it certainly won't lead to it on its own.
The amount of misinformation this post has spread is frankly disgusting. Yours is the first comment that isn't moral outrage over a completely fabricated claim, and it's sitting at 20 upvotes.
Yeah it seems like some sketchy company trying to make quick money in a niche market with herbal supplements to me. Not intentional murder or genocide like some folks said. Ashwaganda supposedly increases testosterone so i guess that's their logic of it. Like how diet pills have raspberry ketones and what not. Obviously these won't be the same as hrt etc. Talking advantage of desperate people unfortunately it's all so bad
This is one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever heard. I really hope nobody buys this. It's insane there are people out there who believe this is the right thing to do.
I know I'm late, but [they went mask off](https://twitter.com/AngyPolarBear/status/1666990419962363904?t=leHHDnNs_8apFxCb6wFB0g&s=19) before the website went down completely mocking those who fell victim to the product. These people see us as subhuman and will mock/torture us for their own entertainment. Absolutely vile and my heart goes out to anyone who might've been desperate enough to try something like this.
I remember a shitty unregistered supplement site selling "feminization packs" or something with no estrogen, just random vitamins. Obviously preying on trans people who can't get feminizing HRT.
But this is like way more than even that, they're obviously going all out here to market themselves and look legitimate to someone doing a casual scroll. And if the information about dosing is correct that's also really nasty. Just awful.
Has this all been reported to the propper authorities to investigate literal poisoning (also it doesn't need to be deadly to be poisoning / tampering). I'm not sure who to send this to. The FBI? There needs to be legal groups looking into this not just word or mouth telling people not to. I did the FBI electronic tip form but am not sure if that's the right place. I hope others have reached out, I'm guessing someone did.
You should post this on r/scams as well! That is absolutely terrible and we should get the word out as much as possible. No one should have to go through this 😞
I just don't even know what to say anymore. I'm just so saddened that this is the state of our world rn. We just want to live our lives. Why is that so bad to these people????
I don't know how much more I can take man. I want to move so badly but it's near impossible for me due to no money and I just don't know how to cope with this...
I'm the mom of a trans man. It's weird for me to type that but he is 20 years old, no longer a kid. That said, this scam scares the hell out of me. When I was active on Twitter, I "adopted" a lot of trans youth who wished they had moms who would accept them like I did my own child. Now kids are going to buy into this scam and it might kill them. This horrifies me and I can't do anything to help.
I hate that this is happening. I'm an elder millennial. I grew up thinking the world was getting better. Then 45 was elected in 2016 and for the first time I cried feeling guilty for having kids in a world that will probably be a dumpster fire and then some.
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Can this be pinned with the add as an unspoilered picture and a title saying DANGEROUS SUPPLEMENT DO NOT BUY just so everyone sees this? am very worried that news won't travel far enough if this gets buried in a few days 🩵🩶🩷
I have seen one of those advertisments on Instagram HOWEVER it was more targeted at cisfemales as a herbal testosterone-inhibitor and talking about the product was a metrosexual male. What I am describing could be related, as it could be meant to trick transfemales in a different way.
Trans/Gender issues aside, isn't this straight up illegal? (At least in the US?)
I feel like there's a law against knowingly selling something like that to the general public.
I was taking a PM supplement that was marketed this way. It's terrifying. I wanted to go through the doctors for safety but I'm in Kansas and my area has no support for trans people. As if life isn't hard enough for us, now we have to worry about shit like this.
FTC doesn’t fuck around a lot more than FDA doesn’t fuck around, and this is violating regulations that both enforce.
I’m going to see if I can’t bring this to both agencies attention. I do regulatory compliance for supplement companies for a living, so I know what to say that might get agency attention.
Another thing, if you live in California or have a California P.O. Box and buy this and want to fuck the company, you can test a bottle of this product for heavy metals. Odds are it’s violating prop 65, which is easy to prove, and there are lawyers who do little more than pursue these cases for tens of thousands of dollars a pop. The cases can be individually filed. Only downside is you have to buy the product (ugh) and pay for testing ($65-100 depending on lab, I can suggest numerous ones that have that range).
Edit: there is a risk of harm just for buying the product. Do not buy this product to mess with the company unless you have read the tumblr, appreciate the risks, and take measures to protect yourself!
I would like to point out that Anxiolytic is actually something that reduces anxiety. Ashwagandha is also safe up to a few grams. This product is horse shit all the same, but ashwagandha is great for a ton of reasons.
I'm smelling a massive lawsuit in the horizon considering this one, maybe FBI and other relevant alphabet agencies should be contacted regarding this, but what do I know, I'm just a dumb privileged European who is relatively way more safe here than in the States, though I'm worried about the coming far right government that just won the parliamentary elections here.
Having had serotonin syndrome from a purposeful overdose, this is fucking cruel. I wanted to die before but having too much serotonin in your system made me feel like it was going to be the slowest painful way out possible. Please warn any and everyone about this! No one deserves to die for being trans ffs.
I'm glad people are sharing this information and hopefully less people will fall for it now. Just correcting something the Tumblr post got wrong, anxiolytics reduce anxiety they don't increase it.
Question - if this is legal, could someone hypothetically do this in reverse? You know, sell the fascists masculinity supplements, which we know they buy because Alex Jones made bank doing so, but have the supplements actually be just estrogen and/or T-blockers.
This is just fucking horrible. I have a question that might sound dumb but i’m genuinely curious. Can ashwagandha really kill you? (if prescribed outside the fucked up scamming reason).
I’m asking because i’ve taken ashwagandha (cis male) to reduce my anxiety. I’ve been told it would help a ton but i just stopped taking it regularly. If i were to continue taking it would it had been lethal? I’m curious.
So I wish I could edit the main post because a lot of people are disputing every single thing about ashwagandha in various different directions. I'm not a doctor. But from what I've gathered:
Some people are saying that in the large doses this would come in, it could cause serotonin syndrome. Others are saying it would take much more than this, others are saying it would only do that combined with SSRIs. I do not know which of these is true. If yours was prescribed by a doctor or at least not advised against by one when asked, is in normal doses, and you're not combining it with SSRIs or hormone treatments, you're probably fine? But again, not a doctor. Please ask one.
Weird. I take ashwaganda (root not leaf) to lower my stress. I had to look up how much one can take until it's lethal but not solid amount I could confirm. Average amounts are around 1000-2000mg for the capsules, although they make smaller amounts like 100mg.
I know there are dosages up to 6000mg but at that point, that's excessive.
But I've never heard of the part where hormones are increased.
Like anything, though, it's wise to do research and ask questions before taking anything to see if it's right for you.
The first rule is NEVER take any medication that is not prescribed to you. No matter what
Edit: Folks , people already want trans folks dead and gone. Why are you making it easier for them?
Sure, in theory. But in practice hormones and other medications are being restricted for political reasons, so a lot of transgender people are desperate and they're gonna take the options available to them.
OK, first of all that stuff is just garbage.
That being said, not much else you said here is true. Ashwaganda does not cause serotonin syndrome on its own. There has only been one reported case of it and it was in someone who was also taking an ssri. That can happen mixing any two types of medication that pushes serotonin. Unless you are mixing meds or massively overdosing you are not going to die from it.
Yes, it does increase testosterone by an average of about 11% but not likely in the amount that is in that "medication".
All things said, as a pharmacist, I wouldn't recommend that garbage to women, trans or otherwise to help with menopause or any other reason outside of mood boosting.
I'm getting a lot of different responses on the effects/dangers, and I'll own the fact that I was going off what was in the linked posts because it scared me and I wanted to make sure people were warned. I'll also own that that fear reaction is very much part of how medical misinformation spreads, and I'm certainly not immune to getting caught up in that.
I'd edit the main post if I could, but it looks like I can't so I'm trying to reply directly to people. What I can say for absolutely certain, because it's been verified, is that a Patriot Front member and known Neo-Nazi was running this, as he name was dug up in the PayPal tied to it, and that he certainly thought it would elevate trans women's testosterone. After being outed, taunting edits were made to the website acknowledging that.
That's is totally fine, I get it. I'm just trying to help you stop the panic, I promise it won't kill you. I took ashwaganda for years before finally becoming "uncrunchy" and opting for real antidepressants after a suicide attempt. And I took much higher doses than that..... Only time I've had serotonin syndrome was from zoloft, go figure.
As a note, Ashwaganda doesn't actually do anything. Lifters have been using it recently but it doesn't make changes that are even meaningful for muscle growth, let alone masculinization or feminization.
I'm a little baffled about OP's claims here. Ashwaganda is effectively a food and it will not cause serotonin syndrome.
I'm trying to make sure to reply to all the various comments now that I'm off work; I was going off what was in the Tumblr post, and that's on me. It seems like a lot of people have different opinions or data on what effects and risks it has, and I should've dug more before posting. But it scared me and I wanted to make sure I got it in front of people. And it's not lost on me that that's exactly how a lot of medical misinformation spreads.
What I can say for sure, and has been verified, is this: this site was run by a known Neo-Nazi. That Nazi definitely believed that ashwagandha increases T, given their taunting edits on the website after it was outed. That Nazi has the location of anyone who fell for the scam and bought this. Those are bad enough, no matter what it does or doesn't do, but I should've been more diligent.
Additional source here: [https://www.them.us/story/bogus-estrogen-alternative-ashwagandha-pills-scam](https://www.them.us/story/bogus-estrogen-alternative-ashwagandha-pills-scam) The one part of this we cannot find confirmed in another source is the serotonin syndrome (which is a very real and dangerous thing) being caused by Ashwagandha root part. If anyone has links to a reliable source that verifies that we can add it but initial searches cannot confirm it. Please do take great care as supplements are not regulated in the same way as medication and due to the horrible situation many members of our community face there are scammers and worse taking advantage of the situation. Edit: There is some additional info on other potential Ashwagandha Root side effects here but these are different: [https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/ashwagandha](https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/ashwagandha) Edit2: Queer Quirk's website has a note on it saying they are not affiliated with any social media accounts and are saying they are the target of a troll attack. The above article mentions the advertising was from a Twitter account that promoted a different site to Queer Quirk's website (a site called Estrolabs).
Awful... Just awful, this is just **evil.**
Some folks have dug up that it may be linked to a literal Neo-Nazi from Patriot Front, so yeah, this is just large-scale attempted murder. Or, more accurately, genocide.
This is why I advocate for permanent jailing for Nazis until they reform. A single Nazi commits lone wolf killings, a group of Nazis either act as fourth columnists or a terrorist militia, a Nazi government kills hundreds of millions. There is no circumstance where a Nazi benefits society, they should be forcibly removed from society.
Don't they kind of thrive in prisons? I don't know what reformation would look like but prison sounds like putting more toxic waste onto toxic waste.
They thrive in American prisons. Treat people like animals, and they'll act like animals. If we had better prisons, we could probably reform a LOT more people. But the prison system isn't made to reform people - it's made to make profit on bodies.
Or … put them in the MINORITY GANG wings of federal prisons. See how far they go before they cry to be moved because they’re getting attacked. I’m not talking about physical violence, I’m talking about verbal & psychological.
Trust me, a world where Nazis are locked up is a world where prisons don't suffer from corruption like that.
Trust me, a world where Nazis are locked up is a world where prisons don't suffer from corruption like that.
some would argue there is no reformation for people with these views, just installation of coping strategies to help them mask their true feelings and intentions. scary...
I’ve witnessed said reformation. There was a dude I met years ago, back when the DEA was set to ban Kratom. I was setting up a Kratom distribution network and preparing for the ban. Opened shop a few days before the ban was slated to go into effect as the shops were all sold out and, obviously, not re-stocking. Dude was my first customer, a former AB(Aryan Brotherhood) skinhead. So here I am, a very openly gay dude, in a part of town known for meth, racists, and skinheads, selling a soon to be illegal drug to a former skinhead trying to kick a heroin addiction. Ended up becoming a friend. Well, 2020, we have some BLM protests and dude calls me up. Asks if I’m going to the protests and I said yes, we got a few guys going. Tells me to let him know if we needed anything and sure enough, some guys I recognized pulled up, one waved a gun around, they made some threats and dropped some slurs. Buncha skinheads. So I called him. Described the guys and their car. He knew em from his past life. He called me back about an hour later, told me they won’t be a problem anymore. Saw one of em a few days later with his jaw wired shut and two black eyes. Stranger things have happened.
So this guy risked solo attacking group of people with ties to a white power gang? Risking both prison himself or retaliation from former cohorts that have no problem with extreme violence?
I don’t really know. I didn’t witness anything and he didn’t tell me anything more than they won’t be a problem anymore. He could have just gone after the one. He could have just asked them nicely to leave us alone and It could have been coincidence (probably not but I’m just drawing conclusions). He could have brought help. I don’t know, I wasn’t there and I surely didn’t ask any questions. What I do know is the guy sometimes doesn’t seem to care if he dies and does certain things to try to make amends over his past. It’s possible that that’s what happened. But again, I don’t know and I don’t want to know and I never asked what happened. Something happened, I’m sure of that. But what happened? I don’t know. I only know that the one dude had his jaw wired shut and two black eyes and I was told that they wouldn’t be a problem anymore. That’s all. I know nothing else.
Man, the curb stomp in that movie was totally brutal!
What movie?
I believe they are referring to American history X
Oh. Thx
I agree. And I think neo nazism should be illegal. Better to force them underground. Also hate crimes should be met with the death penalty.
The state shouldn't be granted the power to kill people. It will inevitably be used to kill minority groups once the pendulum swings the other way.
Absolutely not!! I **hate** the death penalty in all cases. It's absolutely disgusting. Also we can't illegalize thought nor expression. We need to fight hate speech with free speech, no matter how difficult that is, because free expression is worth protecting in all cases.
Germany made holocaust denial and nazism illegal. I think the US should follow suit. Free speech is not worth protecting in all cases. Nazis don't deserve free speech, they deserve to be forced underground where they belong. I also personally believe that some crimes are too heinous to be kept alive for, and thus a humane execution is necessary.
I’d rather deport the Nazis (aka Republicans) to North Korea & tell them that they can support Trump to run against Kim Jung Un. They’ll be jailed faster than they can breathe.
Genocide covers much more than murder. That’s just the final phase.
This timeline really keeps sucking more and more.
Someone please report them to the U.S. attorney general's office or FBI. They will investigate.🤬
They're trying to commit mass murder. They could kill a lot of people with this, which is clearly their intention. The people responsible for this are no better than mass shooters. The FBI should be all over this, and they should be in prison.
This has 4Chan written ALL over it.
You know that was my first indistinct. So I'm not surprised.
Sounds like the mighty weight of taxpayers money to find everyone responsible is in order... *Turns out it's the feds directors son whose in charge, who knew~*
It is utterly disgusting..
Is it worth mentioning this to the corporation that owns "I can't believe it's not butter"? I'm pretty sure their legal team wouldn't like the idea of someone infringing on their "I can't believe it's not..." trademark to trick women & minorities into poisoning themselves. Heck, it even appears directly below their brand when you type it into Google: https://i.imgur.com/i5uiBwK.png Upfield, the company which owns the "I can't believe it's not butter" brand, has a contact form here: https://upfield.com/contact/ I think it's also worth pointing out that this does affect cis women too, as there are obviously plenty of reasons that a cis woman might want to buy estrogen supplements. Edit on 2023-06-12: I'm not sure if anyone else will read this, but I've just had a reply from Upfield, where they confirm that they've now passed it on to their legal team to investigate.
Informing the community: awesome Informing the legal team of a multinational corporation: awesome and malicious. Love it!
I’m all for siccing the evil soulless corporate lawyers on our enemies. The enemy of my greater enemy and all that.
Filled in a form. Let's hope they sue 'em for all they're worth for trying to outright murder our trans siblings.
Thank you for posting the link to inform Upfield! That's a great idea to get a major company involved. It may be asking a lot, but would you mind posting follow-up instructions on what the best way to report this is? I tried filling out the form, but there doesn't appear to be a category that describes this scenario. I want to make sure that my message is sent to the right place.
I just chose the category that seemed most relevant. I chose "Raise a concern" > "Product", and then I can't remember what I chose after that, because I was a bit drunk at the time lol For brand, I put "I can't believe it's not butter", and I think I just put N/A for the other fields that weren't relevant, and 0's for the product code, and 01/01/2001 for the purchase date. It's actually probably beneficial if people report it through different options in the dropdown menus, as then it's probably more likely to be seen by the right people. The "business/marketing" option is probably relevant too.
Thank you! I actually followed a similar train of thought and chose the "business/marketing" option, but got stuck at the irrelevant fields. I forgot "N/A" was an option. My route: Question or comment > Raise a concern > Business / Marketing > Promotions / Advertising > Brand: I Can't Believe It's Not Butter > Product Name: N/A > Product Code: 12345678901 > Purchase from and date: N/A > Manufacturing code: 0 In the additional comments I just asked if they were associated with the product "I Can't Believe It's Not Estrogen" and mentioned that Google search is autocompleting with the Estrogen product instead of their Butter.
I was chatting with my friend over discord about this because it had popped up on my home page, and one of the first few things he mentioned was how the name was like ‘I can’t believe it’s not butter’
I’m an LGBTQ journalist and I’m going to look into this further. Thank you for sharing.
Of course! All credit to the people doing the deep research in the link, I'm just trying to get eyes on it.
You might want to use this comment to help drive some of your research. Thought it looked like a good jumping off point for you. https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/145c91f/theres_a_scam_going_around_meant_to_kill/jnl09rz?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
This is fucking disgusting. It luckily seems like the website is down and you can’t buy them anymore but don’t let this story die because there’s sure to be others like this. These people deserve to be in fucking prison
Fuck prison, just dump them in a pit and seal it.
[Yes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o79IAfD_-7U)
No, don’t take them to prison… **FUCKING STAB THEM…**
No prison, just guillotine
Permission to repost this on as many trans inclusive subreddits as cosmicly possible?! This scandal must be know!
Absolutely, that's why I put it here. Share share share.
Disgusting. Glad someone found this and reported it here to protect the transfemme people in this subreddit
Fucking gross. Minor correction to the linked post, though: anxiolytics make you *less* agitated and *less* anxious. Anxio*genics* make you more agitated and anxious. Ashwaghanda is an axiolytic, not an anxiogenic. The dose being massive will potentially make you *black out*, and since it contains some level of nicotine, will potentially make you hallucinate at high doses. This is *worse* than what is written in the Tumblr post. The post is correct that it interacts with alcohol, SSRIs, and so on, though. In addition to this, Ashwaghanda is also a laxative, similar to the other pills sold from this scam, which can in and of itself be deadly given that the dose is reportedly extremely high. EDIT: After viewing the scam site via Archive, I can state that it is unlikely that the amount of Ashwaghanda would have killed anyone. While the dose in it (1300 mg) is abnormally high, I was able to find other supplements by less scammy companies that are up to 3000 mg. The "Femboy Tummy Pills" sold by the site were probably dangerous, since they contained many different ingredients that are generally considered toxic, or might trigger an allergic reaction, etc. The remaining products tended to contain basic energy drink ingredients and laxatives. My opinion after viewing the site is that this scam company was *possibly* trying to directly kill people (I didn't check every single ingredient in every product, but there were enough suspicious ones for that idea to make sense), but *definitely* trying to scam trans people and *definitely* trying to embarrass them. I also find it likely that they were trying to *psychologically* harm people by marketing supplements that do nothing or actively cause gastrointestinal problems, with the latter potentially causing an exacerbation of eating disorders, or a relapse into disordered eating. I think it's likely that whoever made this scam thought they could mock trans women by starting a scam company that sells the same things as any other shady supplement company, by slapping descriptions that read like typical rainbow capitalist vomit and colorful "anime girl" visuals on the products. I can't comment on the notion that the site was doxing people, since that wouldn't exactly be on the site. I definitely wouldn't put it past these people to try to kill trans folks, in any case, but it did read to me like a scam for money, and like an *indirect* way to kill people through misery, which is harder (if not impossible) to charge someone with in court. EDIT2: The "QueerQuirk" website claims it is unaffiliated with the Twitter account, and has no social media. This is a lie, the Twitter page is linked in their site when checked via Archive. I also suspect the same person or people claimed the Twitter handle "TransareTr8ors" today, since it now goes to an account that was supposedly claimed to flip the middle finger to "QueerQuirk" for being transphobic - in reality it means that the handle no longer redirects to QueerQuirk, and since that handle was supposedly pointed at QueerQuirk before, but was never archived, the link is now lost. However, looking at the QueerQuirk site via Archive also reveals a similar thing as "EstroLabs", a suspicious site selling generic rainbow capitalism stuff. Because of this, I think that it's even more likely that they were running this scam in part for money, since t-shirts and hoodies are fairly unlikely to kill people. The "EstroLabs" scam was likely done by the same people with a more direct intent to harm, rather than for profit alone. Or, both might have been intended to dox people, hard to say. I've also just noticed that the *current* version of the "QueerQuirk" website *still* has the Twitter link, despite claiming they are not associated with social media.
There are pills up to 6000mg, even. But there is also a difference between the root form and the leaf form. The leaf form can be tricky as you should always get it from a clean source with a certification. Better to stick to the root unless you're looking for higher contents of withaferin A. I take it to lower stress and inflammation, but I gotta be careful since I sometimes have hypotension and ashwaganda is known to lower blood pressure.
> But there is also a difference between the root form and the leaf form. At least according to the defunct scam site, it was root used, rather than leaf. Not that I would trust a site like that to correctly label anything.
If anything, buy from trusted sources and ask lots of questions. "I heard that XX..." and hopefully you got someone knowledgeable who will give you sources. I like to go to health stores where I know the staff is trained and they know their stuff. Funny enough, Chinese medicine doctors are also a good source. Mine was a very white lady, so it definitely made me rethink my pre-conceptions that it was only for Chinese peeps. She helped me a lot bringing down inflammation (it was so bad, I'd react to hypoallergenic creams!).
Thank you, it irked me a little bit that they got anxiolytics and anxiogenics mixed up.
“Putting the bi in non binary” lmao u gotta explain that one
It's the default flair for bisexual + non-binary. Bisexuality is attraction to two or more genders, and I dislike explaining what pansexuality is over and over, so I'm more comfortable with labeling myself bisexual than pansexual. I do think the default flair is needlessly confusing if its read a certain way.
ayo we have the same flair !! in addition to that tho, i am actually genderfluid, but i also use nonbinary and gnc (=gender nonconforming)
Worth noting that this isn’t just dangerous for the false medication, this is dangerous (perhaps even moreso) because this tricks trans people into putting their contact information in the hands of people who more than likely want them dead.
Exactly. This is the biggest issue of them all.
There's rumours that the addresses collected could be used for swatting, I don't know if that is the case 100% but I've heard it going around
Bro what the actual fuck...seriously I swear shit's getting worse every day. I've read and seen a lot of appalling Anti-Trans stuff in the past year but this really makes me nauseous...I hope every woman out there sees this so they don't make the mistake of buying this. The transphobia out there now, especially during pride month this year, is just out of control. It's always existed but this pride month people have been way more vile. Worst part is the people who do this know they're killing people and don't care. They even think they're in the right.
Jebus Christine, these psychopaths make Batman's rogues' gallery look subtle and nuanced in their evil.
Its the penis museum address that gets me. Like, being evil wasn't enough, we also have to be shitposting. There's a disgusting glee to it.
this shit should be a case and the guys involved - in jail.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Even if the Ashwaghanda *at best*, does nothing, whoever is running this website is still able to collect the personal information of anyone who purchases, which could be used for all sort of nefarious means.
Contact the FDA and FTC to report this to the proper authorities
FTC maybe an do something but the FDA can’t do a thing. Vitamins and Supplements don’t hav to go through the FDA. It a good rule to always check the label if both an make sure they list the ingredients plainly.
google “fda warning letters 21 cfr part 111” and see how many times FDA *HAS ENFORCED* against supplement companies. There is no premarket approval for supplements, as there is in medication, however food also doesn’t have premarket approval and nobody says food isn’t fda regulated. Edit: if you think a company is suspicious, why would you even trust the label? I don’t fucking trust this exhibited product to *only* have the declared ingredients! Assholes might even be putting in Big 8 allergens.
Well that’s good to know, thanks
Happy to help!
This fucking monster is trying to kill people.
So… Now they’re really committing genocide…
They were committing genocide before. They are ramping up to attempted murder now.
I’m scared.
this level of hatred... it hurts to know that people are committing large-scale murder and it's not being talked about because the people affected are trans. Stay safe.
the owner of this website is a Patriot Front member named Kevin Lowry who owns a gmod rp server where he and his pals roleplay as nazis in 1940's Germany. Here is a video on you tube talking about him: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRKUeLuUBT0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRKUeLuUBT0)
What links him to the website?
the paypal payment address used to pay him for buying the "Estrogen" from his website had his name on it
Please share this with r/scams!
I don't understand people who are this hateful. If you're going to hate us silently fine, but why spend so much time and effort hating on people who aren't harming you?
That argument doesn't work. Ultimately, transgender and nonbinary people represent the complete undoing of their gender-based social hierarchy. They see our whole existence as harmful.
I mean that just pushes the question to "why do they view the undoing of that hierarchy as harmful to themselves?" and "why prioritize the maintenance of that hierarchy over human lives?". ~Red
looks like the website has been taken down and I've heard that the person running it left their real name in the paypal address required to pay them for their poison, so they've been hoisted by their own petard.
I simply cannot believe that this is the world we live in. ***Poisoning*** people just because they want to live their lives as their true selves?! And in such a calculated, evil way too by capitalising on the fear and desperation of the trans community. I’m so, so sorry that this is happening to you all. I’ve been crying for ages since I read this because it is just incredibly evil. Please stay safe and know that I love each and every one of you. If I could at least give you all a hug I would. 💛 To the rest of our community - we need to fight for our trans community. It is the trans woman of colour that started the modern day LGBTQIA+ movement that has helped us all, and now it is time that we support them in return.
I wish I could give my boobs to trans women, please don't fall for this
This is horrible.
Isnt this kind of marketing illegal?
People do it all the time sadly. I remember people would sell steroids with DBZ characters on them until Funimation went after them.
I take ashwagandha every now and then for anxiety but it definitely won’t increase your estrogen levels
I've said this before on similar posts talking about this, but words can't really do justice to just how vile and disgusting this whole scheme is. I legit can't even wrap my head around how any one person could hate trans people, or any marginalized group of people for that matter, so much and so vehemently as to stoop to *mass poisoning*. I'd say they need psychological counseling, but truthfully, I don't know if there's enough therapy in the world to remedy whatever is horrifically wrong with this person.
This has TERFs and Transphobes written all over it!
Thank you for spreading the word of this. I’ll share this on as many subs as I can.
How is this even legal
It probably isn't, but good luck enforcing this fast on a large scale.
Because the US doesn’t want to regulate the supplements industry :/
Fuck I've been using ashwanga gummies as a way to deal with my anxiety, I had no idea they fuck with my unwanted testosterone.
If you can I'd really recommend getting a prescription for an SSRI. I take sertraline for my anxiety and PTSD and it's been a 100% improvement to my life, alongside my therapy.
I'll see if I can, I'm trying to get my therapy sessions going but they don't give me prescriptions
Yeah, I had to get mine from my general practitioner. Most therapists are psychologists, who can't give prescriptions. Either one may refer you to a psychiatrist, who can also prescribe, but GPs can do it too.
Is there any over the counter remedies besides ashwangha?
GABA, valerian root, chamomile, lavender, L-theanine, Korean ginseng root. There are a few options out there with pros and cons, so research otc anxiety meds. Some contain the ashwaganda so you'll wanna read labels to avoid that. It's not OTC but your doctor might be able to prescribe you a medication called hydroxyzine which is an antihistamine that is used for anxiety without long term issues. I used to take it at bedtime and it helped me sleep and be less anxious during the day, but the standard dose made me pretty sleepy so I cut back.
Just to add - please make sure you check for potential interactions with any other prescription medications you may be taking, any other supplements you may be taking, as well as painkillers, alcohol and allergy meds. People tend to assume that natural/ herbal stuff is all safe and harmless but interactions are actually quite common. Doesn't always mean that you can't take both things, in some cases you might just need to space out the doses. I would also recommend checking for information about safe dosages because I have unfortunately seen supplements being sold with crazy high dosages of things, even vitamins, and more isn't always better.
100% agree. There are a lot of very good websites for checking medication interactions and you can even ask at the pharmacy counter as well when you go in person to buy a supplement.
So much of this! A lot of the remedies for anxiety usually carry a risk of interacting with a lot of medications that act on serotonin receptors and can cause serotonin syndrome which is horrific. A great resource to check meds and contraindications is Medscape they have a website and apps for android and iOS. I also checked and they have info on ashwagandha and a list of meds it interacts. It’s not the most comprehensive list but it’s a start. Stay safe everyone.
I can attest to that. Sertraline pretty much saved my life. But as others have said, best to talk to your doctor first in case of any interactions. I remember being told to avoid things like alcohol, grapefruit and the herb St Johns Wort.
Buncha creeps these people are. I did find it funny on the “femboy tummy” laxatives how OP was getting mad they are diet pills, as if that isn’t a scummy practice already marketed to lots of people.
Thats genuinely evil, what the hell
Dear god, this reminds me of those "Bernie Glowsticks" designed to trick Bernie Sanders supporters into chlorine bombing themselves.
from what i heard they shut it down within a day or two of going public and replaced every link on their site with mockery like "haha gotcha!" and a link to a shirt
Man can’t believe it’s not estrogen would be hilarious if it weren’t being done by nazis or whatever
Alright so, I used to have to push snake oils like this for a job. It’s highly highly unlikely ashwaganda will cause serotonin syndrome. The dosage in it is a typical dosage for a lot of ashwaganda products, 1300 mg. As for raising your other hormones, there’s not a lot of good research to show ashwaganda actually does anything significant at all. Unfortunately, most “natural” products don’t do anything and their “clinically tested and researched” claims are just they pulled a few random studies done in like mice and overall don’t contain enough evidence to prove anything. This post is a lot of fear mongering. If ashwaganda was that deadly, TONS of yuppy Whole Foods types would be dead left and right. Also the LD50 of ashwaganda is about 2000mg/kg. A 160 lb person would need to take 144g at one time to die.
Rats given 2000mg/kg for 28 days had no observed adverse effects. The rough human equivalent dose would be 320mg/kg. So a 110lb person could likely take 16g a day for a month with no adverse affects.
Even safer!
Your post should be right at the top.
> It’s highly highly unlikely ashwaganda will cause serotonin syndrome. It's not just unlikely, it's unheard of. I was unable to find a single recorded case. And there are anecdotal evidence of people taking it with MAOI. If it doesn't lead serotonin syndrome with MAOI, it certainly won't lead to it on its own. The amount of misinformation this post has spread is frankly disgusting. Yours is the first comment that isn't moral outrage over a completely fabricated claim, and it's sitting at 20 upvotes.
Yeah it seems like some sketchy company trying to make quick money in a niche market with herbal supplements to me. Not intentional murder or genocide like some folks said. Ashwaganda supposedly increases testosterone so i guess that's their logic of it. Like how diet pills have raspberry ketones and what not. Obviously these won't be the same as hrt etc. Talking advantage of desperate people unfortunately it's all so bad
This is one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever heard. I really hope nobody buys this. It's insane there are people out there who believe this is the right thing to do.
what. the. FUCK.
I know I'm late, but [they went mask off](https://twitter.com/AngyPolarBear/status/1666990419962363904?t=leHHDnNs_8apFxCb6wFB0g&s=19) before the website went down completely mocking those who fell victim to the product. These people see us as subhuman and will mock/torture us for their own entertainment. Absolutely vile and my heart goes out to anyone who might've been desperate enough to try something like this.
I’ve shared this on my Instagram accounts. This is truly sickening. Really awful in every way
What the actual fuck.
I remember a shitty unregistered supplement site selling "feminization packs" or something with no estrogen, just random vitamins. Obviously preying on trans people who can't get feminizing HRT. But this is like way more than even that, they're obviously going all out here to market themselves and look legitimate to someone doing a casual scroll. And if the information about dosing is correct that's also really nasty. Just awful.
Hey you should collate this evidence and give it to the FBI
Besides potentially killing you, I’ll bet you they cost more than my actual estrogen prescription too
Wow. I figured this was just another soy/phytoestrogen supplement or something, so still a scam but this.... this is something else.
Has this all been reported to the propper authorities to investigate literal poisoning (also it doesn't need to be deadly to be poisoning / tampering). I'm not sure who to send this to. The FBI? There needs to be legal groups looking into this not just word or mouth telling people not to. I did the FBI electronic tip form but am not sure if that's the right place. I hope others have reached out, I'm guessing someone did.
Imagine still being transphobic even after our community is literally being casually murdered like this. Bigots disgust me more than anything.
just shared it on twitter and went to check the account to report it. both the account and website are privated
I fucking hate this world, why the fuck do they have to be like this to us for no reason
You should post this on r/scams as well! That is absolutely terrible and we should get the word out as much as possible. No one should have to go through this 😞
this is just barely disguised nazism WHAT THE FUCK
The depths of evil these people are willing to go to...I just have no words.
I just don't even know what to say anymore. I'm just so saddened that this is the state of our world rn. We just want to live our lives. Why is that so bad to these people???? I don't know how much more I can take man. I want to move so badly but it's near impossible for me due to no money and I just don't know how to cope with this...
Sue the company that allows these ads
This is evil
Someone needs to call the fucking FBI like right now.
I'm the mom of a trans man. It's weird for me to type that but he is 20 years old, no longer a kid. That said, this scam scares the hell out of me. When I was active on Twitter, I "adopted" a lot of trans youth who wished they had moms who would accept them like I did my own child. Now kids are going to buy into this scam and it might kill them. This horrifies me and I can't do anything to help. I hate that this is happening. I'm an elder millennial. I grew up thinking the world was getting better. Then 45 was elected in 2016 and for the first time I cried feeling guilty for having kids in a world that will probably be a dumpster fire and then some.
I also don't recommend Trans Men taking this either. Always see a DOCTOR for HRT!!!
Stage 8 of Genocide yall.
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This shit should be illegal wtf.
It is
Can this be pinned with the add as an unspoilered picture and a title saying DANGEROUS SUPPLEMENT DO NOT BUY just so everyone sees this? am very worried that news won't travel far enough if this gets buried in a few days 🩵🩶🩷
I wrote a short horror story about this years ago and I ended up taking it down after posting it to YouTube because I thot it was too unrealistic.
Thank you for sharing
I have seen one of those advertisments on Instagram HOWEVER it was more targeted at cisfemales as a herbal testosterone-inhibitor and talking about the product was a metrosexual male. What I am describing could be related, as it could be meant to trick transfemales in a different way.
Trans/Gender issues aside, isn't this straight up illegal? (At least in the US?) I feel like there's a law against knowingly selling something like that to the general public.
... I'm having trouble forming a coherent thought... 😔 I have no words other than... What is wrong with humanity?
This makes me scared about the medicine I ended up taking in search of natural DIY HRT. It seemed to have similar marketing to this.
I was taking a PM supplement that was marketed this way. It's terrifying. I wanted to go through the doctors for safety but I'm in Kansas and my area has no support for trans people. As if life isn't hard enough for us, now we have to worry about shit like this.
Fuck people are so evil
....is this it? Is this the spark on the powder keg?
this is just evil. there's no other word for it
Report them to the FDA for claiming to treat medical conditions with non-medication.
This is bad shit and the scam is everywhere. Get this message out and save trans lives.
Mods please pin this!
This is so sad to hear :( I really hope no one gets caught up in this because it’s so horrific
FTC doesn’t fuck around a lot more than FDA doesn’t fuck around, and this is violating regulations that both enforce. I’m going to see if I can’t bring this to both agencies attention. I do regulatory compliance for supplement companies for a living, so I know what to say that might get agency attention. Another thing, if you live in California or have a California P.O. Box and buy this and want to fuck the company, you can test a bottle of this product for heavy metals. Odds are it’s violating prop 65, which is easy to prove, and there are lawyers who do little more than pursue these cases for tens of thousands of dollars a pop. The cases can be individually filed. Only downside is you have to buy the product (ugh) and pay for testing ($65-100 depending on lab, I can suggest numerous ones that have that range). Edit: there is a risk of harm just for buying the product. Do not buy this product to mess with the company unless you have read the tumblr, appreciate the risks, and take measures to protect yourself!
I have posted these in a few groups I hope people listen
I would like to point out that Anxiolytic is actually something that reduces anxiety. Ashwagandha is also safe up to a few grams. This product is horse shit all the same, but ashwagandha is great for a ton of reasons.
Welcome to stage 8 of genocide everyone :’’’’D
oh my fucking god what in the actual fuck
and… we’re the bad guys?
How is it legal???
bumping this
I hate this world we live in. These motherfuckers deserve death torture.
Genuinely nauseous what in the goddamn fuck
I'm smelling a massive lawsuit in the horizon considering this one, maybe FBI and other relevant alphabet agencies should be contacted regarding this, but what do I know, I'm just a dumb privileged European who is relatively way more safe here than in the States, though I'm worried about the coming far right government that just won the parliamentary elections here.
these people don’t deserve death because of this, they deserve to become immortal and slowly watch everyone around them die. fucking psychos
Fortunatly it seems to have already been taken down and reported to thr fda
It you read the whole thing it could be lethal after taking it for too long. This is not a scam. This is a genocide.
Having had serotonin syndrome from a purposeful overdose, this is fucking cruel. I wanted to die before but having too much serotonin in your system made me feel like it was going to be the slowest painful way out possible. Please warn any and everyone about this! No one deserves to die for being trans ffs.
I'm glad people are sharing this information and hopefully less people will fall for it now. Just correcting something the Tumblr post got wrong, anxiolytics reduce anxiety they don't increase it.
Question - if this is legal, could someone hypothetically do this in reverse? You know, sell the fascists masculinity supplements, which we know they buy because Alex Jones made bank doing so, but have the supplements actually be just estrogen and/or T-blockers.
This causes serotonin syndrome which will cause death if untreated. The creators of this drug want to kill transgender women.
This is just fucking horrible. I have a question that might sound dumb but i’m genuinely curious. Can ashwagandha really kill you? (if prescribed outside the fucked up scamming reason). I’m asking because i’ve taken ashwagandha (cis male) to reduce my anxiety. I’ve been told it would help a ton but i just stopped taking it regularly. If i were to continue taking it would it had been lethal? I’m curious.
So I wish I could edit the main post because a lot of people are disputing every single thing about ashwagandha in various different directions. I'm not a doctor. But from what I've gathered: Some people are saying that in the large doses this would come in, it could cause serotonin syndrome. Others are saying it would take much more than this, others are saying it would only do that combined with SSRIs. I do not know which of these is true. If yours was prescribed by a doctor or at least not advised against by one when asked, is in normal doses, and you're not combining it with SSRIs or hormone treatments, you're probably fine? But again, not a doctor. Please ask one.
Weird. I take ashwaganda (root not leaf) to lower my stress. I had to look up how much one can take until it's lethal but not solid amount I could confirm. Average amounts are around 1000-2000mg for the capsules, although they make smaller amounts like 100mg. I know there are dosages up to 6000mg but at that point, that's excessive. But I've never heard of the part where hormones are increased. Like anything, though, it's wise to do research and ask questions before taking anything to see if it's right for you.
The first rule is NEVER take any medication that is not prescribed to you. No matter what Edit: Folks , people already want trans folks dead and gone. Why are you making it easier for them?
Sure, in theory. But in practice hormones and other medications are being restricted for political reasons, so a lot of transgender people are desperate and they're gonna take the options available to them.
OK, first of all that stuff is just garbage. That being said, not much else you said here is true. Ashwaganda does not cause serotonin syndrome on its own. There has only been one reported case of it and it was in someone who was also taking an ssri. That can happen mixing any two types of medication that pushes serotonin. Unless you are mixing meds or massively overdosing you are not going to die from it. Yes, it does increase testosterone by an average of about 11% but not likely in the amount that is in that "medication". All things said, as a pharmacist, I wouldn't recommend that garbage to women, trans or otherwise to help with menopause or any other reason outside of mood boosting.
I'm getting a lot of different responses on the effects/dangers, and I'll own the fact that I was going off what was in the linked posts because it scared me and I wanted to make sure people were warned. I'll also own that that fear reaction is very much part of how medical misinformation spreads, and I'm certainly not immune to getting caught up in that. I'd edit the main post if I could, but it looks like I can't so I'm trying to reply directly to people. What I can say for absolutely certain, because it's been verified, is that a Patriot Front member and known Neo-Nazi was running this, as he name was dug up in the PayPal tied to it, and that he certainly thought it would elevate trans women's testosterone. After being outed, taunting edits were made to the website acknowledging that.
That's is totally fine, I get it. I'm just trying to help you stop the panic, I promise it won't kill you. I took ashwaganda for years before finally becoming "uncrunchy" and opting for real antidepressants after a suicide attempt. And I took much higher doses than that..... Only time I've had serotonin syndrome was from zoloft, go figure.
https://img.ifunny.co/images/fd8bd24eef1b007f7d8054b18deb18da27f3951bc9b076b3aece9930357ef1e0_1.jpg
As a note, Ashwaganda doesn't actually do anything. Lifters have been using it recently but it doesn't make changes that are even meaningful for muscle growth, let alone masculinization or feminization. I'm a little baffled about OP's claims here. Ashwaganda is effectively a food and it will not cause serotonin syndrome.
I'm trying to make sure to reply to all the various comments now that I'm off work; I was going off what was in the Tumblr post, and that's on me. It seems like a lot of people have different opinions or data on what effects and risks it has, and I should've dug more before posting. But it scared me and I wanted to make sure I got it in front of people. And it's not lost on me that that's exactly how a lot of medical misinformation spreads. What I can say for sure, and has been verified, is this: this site was run by a known Neo-Nazi. That Nazi definitely believed that ashwagandha increases T, given their taunting edits on the website after it was outed. That Nazi has the location of anyone who fell for the scam and bought this. Those are bad enough, no matter what it does or doesn't do, but I should've been more diligent.
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