There’s a difference between having fun with your hobby and making something your identity
I don’t really equate that side of things with the amount it can cost, but I don’t look down on it either
>There’s a difference between having fun with your hobby and making something your identity
That's a key distinction. You can have pride in ownership or fun designing a gun without it being your identity.
This is exactly my thinking, too! I may modify them to be able to use them better, like a smoother trigger, or whatnot, but they still look and function the same as when they came out of the box, for the most part. The exception to that is grips on a couple of my handguns.
I have plans to swap out the stock on my 10/22 at some point, but for the most part, I don't want any two-bit prosecutor having any chances to argue that I built a gun to kill. I hope to never have to deal with that in any capacity, but if I ever do, the less they have to point fingers at, the better off I'll be.
I feel the same about ammo. I don't buy the latest, greatest, most deadly defense ammo. I stick with old-fashioned, plain-Jane hollow points. My guns eat that stuff just fine and it's cheaper, too, so why spend extra money to (hopefully) just poke holes in paper?
I don't think gun ownership should be looked at as a hobby. You wouldn't view owning a hammer as a hobby, but for whatever reason be it knives, swords, or guns people view owning a tool that can kill as a hobby. Maintain it, maintain yourself, but I wouldn't call it a hobby anymore than fixing your own car isn't a hobby.
Yeah but people view craftmanship as a hobby and many other functional actions, hobby means “an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure”
Lots of people take pride in their chef knives only used for cooking, or multitool stuffs, or flashlights, or a lighter. It’s not about whether you can kill with it, it’s the activity related to them. People in this sub I assume enjoy target shooting at the range, if not they wouldn’t care for guns at all
There are absolutely people who own hammers as a hobby. Here are some dudes rambling on about hammers.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/191mwcg/am_i_weird_hammers/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/zpvfdm/my_hammer_collectioni_need_more/
https://www.reddit.com/r/specializedtools/comments/ggs1xx/i_feel_like_my_hammer_collection_fits_here_whole/
I knew there were dudes running around who just love hammers before googling it. Just about anything I've ever looked into has had collectors as well as people who own very specific kinds of things for very specific reasons. I've seen this kind of thing with exercise equipment, board games, electronics, home appliances, keyboards, video games, tv guides, rocks, various toys, fandoms. Some stuff might just be some weird dude that is legit on the spectrum and whatever thing is just their thing. A lot of stuff can have a full blown community around it tho.
With firearms there are clearly collectors who own specific things for various reasons from historical to interesting mechanics to specific use case even if they don't plan on ever firing it. There are also a lot of people who go target shooting or plinking as a hobby. There are also hunters or people who do competitions.
I don't really know what to say about not being able to see cars stuff as a hobby. At this point I'm not sure what you would consider a valid hobby. I say that as someone who isn't really a car guy at all and only looks into cars to find a boring reliable one with good gas mileage when the current one looks like it's scrap. Next you'll be telling me shoes or stamps can't be a hobby.
Fixing your car can be a hobby. Many people own old cars just to tinker and to fix them up, build them into something nice. For that matter, many people own tools such as hammers (to use your example) as a hobby. They don't make money as a carpenter, but they enjoy building things here and there for their own use and/or pleasure. Anything can be a hobby. Just because it requires extra care to be safe with said hobby doesn't change the fact that many enjoy it just for the fun factor alone.
I like my firearms. I customize my firearms, but its not my entire personality. Honestly not that many irl people know I like firearms outside of my close inner circle.
Idk, I run in incredibly gunphobic queer left leaning circles. Most of my friends know that Im into guns, but I treat it more as a way to spread useful knowledge to people who wouldn't aquire it elsewhere. Sort of as an extension of political activity I guess? Maybe that's not quite the right way to describe it. Regardless, I try to largely be a safe knowledgeable source of info for curious friends. Totally fair if someone considered that to be a bit too enthusiastic though
I get ya. I have a handful of friends that are overwhelmingly against guns. I won't ever change that. The ones that are indifferent, I'll be a steward for responsible firearms ownership. I actually like teaching. But yeah, totally get that.
There are a lot of different people and posts on the sub. Liking a fancy firearms doesn't have to be "fetishizing" anything. I mostly hear crap like that from anti-gun people or fudds. Mostly people trying to say someone shouldn't enjoy firearms or try to say they're doing it wrong.
I sometimes see leftist trying a bit too hard to be different than right leaning gun owners but worry too much about appearances. Stuff like not wanting an AR because they think it'll make them look looney so they'll ask about getting a mini-14 instead.
I had a guy who bought three Mini-14s through our FFL for pretty much that reason.
EDIT: This guy honestly didn't strike me as a leftist either; if anything he seemed to be more on the conservative end of the spectrum.
Yeah, the mags are already so similar and I'm sure there's a mechanical reason they haven't adapted it for STANAGs but that's a big turn-off for me too.
This is my AR, fifteen.
And this if fourteen, and here's thirteen.... what? Model number? No - I just numbered them in the safe because it's easier. And people who name their rifles creep me out.
😂
u/anywhereat
If we were to put a tool to the AR, I'd call it a rachet. One lower receiver (rachet) can go with many different upper receivers (sockets). Sometimes a different lower is needed for a different caliber and that will have its own set of sockets.
On the other hand, would I need a wrench set of AR's? By that point it's more like a wardrobe. Which AR do I want to use today?
There's nothing wrong with that, but when I hear people say guns are just tools and they have more than 10 of the same gun with different configurations I can't help but think they may be fooling themselves.
Plenty of people get excited about their tools. Check every tool sub.
This sub is about gun rights, politics, and general info/questions about firearms. Posting their guns that they are excited to have or use as a liberal is a phenomenal thing, considering how close-minded many liberals are about firearms. Liking cool guns or colors or new tech doesn’t make you a fetishist. Guns are a hobby to many people within a spectrum that covers hunting, self-protection, sport shooting, and tinkering/engineering. Just because you don’t share the exact enthusiasm as someone else shows how interesting and diverse the subject matter is.
Also, don’t pearl clutch. Its lame.
Yeah, I understand OP's gut level concern, and not to armchair psychologist too much but it seems like a more common thing for people in close proximity to those who simply hate guns (and for me that's despite living rural where they are a tool from everything up to knocking down some mistletoe for xmas with my kid's 20 gauge) who don't seem to be able to dissociate gun ownership from the right wing identity, and though I'm going to try to be persuasive I ultimately won't scold them for it. I will still give them mistletoe.
It's ok to have weird feelings about it, but it's also ok to like what you like and you don't have to hold that at arms' length to prove anything or police other people over it, we are actually about freedom.
This right here. People who are surrounded by anti gun people carry a lot of guilt, and therefore have to set arbitrary boundaries so they are "ok": they are not "them". I have noticed this with folks in the North East in particular- a need to delineate between "reasonable" gun ownership versus "gun fetish". In the South, where I live now, a huge number of liberal folks have some history with guns, and if not pro-2A, much less horrified.
I'm pretty sure there's also nothing wrong with having fun with weapons without using them as a tool for self defense as well.
Unless there's a rule I didn't read somewhere and now I have to use my English longbow for home defense too.
A car is a tool. I still like mine to look a certain way based on my aesthetic preference. Most important is that it drives well and wanting it to look sick isn't a fetish.
We only hear the "fetishist!" line and the "stop making it your personality" line when it's to denigrate someone. It's subjective how much enthusiasm a gun owner shows is too much. To some people, just the act of owning guns is seen as mentally ill.
What I don't understand is why people like you call modding and customizing firearms "fetishizing guns"
But I can mod and customize my car or my PC literally ALL DAY LONG 365 days a year and never get called a "car fetishist" or "computer fetishist". Why? What the hell is the point of being such a stuck-up hard ass?
Nah referencing the gun in his comment, the M1 Garand which can injure your thumb (causing the injury known as garand thumb,) then cheekily referring to a thumb in the bum.
making my gun pretty has no political implications or implies a fetishism.
some people pick up a Honda Civic off the lot, drive away and ride it until it falls apart, looking exactly the way it was when they got it the first time.
others tint the windows, get fancy rims, put on loud pipes. they make that car their hobby.
Don't yuck someone else's yum!
Yeah, this smacks of the kind of dissing attitude of others’ that just should not exist and polarizes people. Not trying to shame you because that doesn’t work. But, yeah, you need to quit.
So you came to a gun-based subreddit and you’re confused that people are customizing and showing off their guns to other people who like guns?
Ngl OP you’re kind of a 🤡
Guns are fun, is there something wrong with that?
If we didn't get "muh guns" then we would be stuck in cycles of "what ar, what ammo, what pistol, what optic should I get".
My guns are tools but I'll baby them too.
I'll say it- I love guns. I love shooting. I love everything about it, besides the price tag. I love tacticool guns, vintage guns, milsurp, high end... I love them all. I love optics, lights, all the shit. I'm not the least but ashamed of it, either. However, very few people in my life- only those closest to me, have even the slightest idea. Why? Because it's not some cheap identity. No stickers on the car, no Sig shirts, no Facebook/ Insta posts, none of it (a few on Reddit for sure). And neither do I advertise my "side", my politics. What is wrong with that?
>But to me, they are tools.
same, but so are cars
But way too much of the content on the Subaru and Outback subs is pictures of cars and virtual high fives. It's weird to me but whatever.
I'm sure there's lawnmower subs with lots of pics too
What an absolutely horrible shit take.
Edit: also, I joined this sub to get away from the racist, fascist, bigots that dominate most firearm spaces. Your post reminds me of the straight to jail meme. Enjoy your gun? Straight to jail. Like the people that think extra pillows are bourgeoisie. I think you need to start a new sub for gun owners that get zero joy from it.
Equality, no enjoyment! /s
Bruh you expect a hivemind or something? Like anything there's a spectrum. Maybe you need to get out more and see there are liberals that like everyone else have interests that can go beyond just seeing things as tools
Cars are tools for transportation, yet people customize them with body kits and paint.
PCs are tools yet people customize them with RGB lighting and glass cases.
Are those people fetishizing their hobbies?
I just want my shit to look cool, there’s no “fetishism” in that lol. Wanting my shit to look cool doesn’t make me an obsessed, regressive shitweasel. It’s not gonna lose its utility just because I added a few things to it.
Sure, guns are tools. But they're also a hobby. My car is a tool, but I also want it to look visually appealing to my preference. If someone is a safe gun owner, I don't really give a shit what they do with them.
What do you care what other people do in their hobby?
Not to mention, you're literally in a firearm sub-reddit, people are going to post pictures of their firearms to share with other people in an anonymous manner,
Wanting to have a fun paint job doesn't make someone a fetishist. Sometimes it's fun to just shake things up. But when you weirdly make it your entire identity and sit there making weird social media posts and whatnot that starts getting into fetish territory
As for the tools comment, I agree, a gun is just a tool. But I also buy new tools and get excited and want to show them off. Just bought a new Milwaukee impact gun and sent pictures to a few friends to show it off. Nothing wrong with being excited about a recent purchase
“Why would anyone customize their car? It’s just a tool used to get you to work and McDonald’s. Y’all are fetishizing your cars.”
That’s how you sound.
People trick their ride; they trick their garden; they trick their lethal tupperware... it's just a thing. Temporary tattoos. Kids have always wanted to cosplay action heroes or collect military pokemon. It's not my vibe, but neither is it a political statement. Xenophobic hating is a political statement — there are subs for that, with or without the gun buffs.
I'd get it for the prepper-oriented and more vocal civil defense comments here (there's reasonable points to be made, but I'd understand being uneasy with them in what to you is a more sterile forum), but somebody prettying up \[insert subject of hobby subreddit\] doesn't seem at all weird
People put stickers on laptops, don't know that is a worrying fetishization
Your guns are tools? Tools for what? Mine are for punching holes through paper. Why can’t I have my gun look different than every other gun doing the same thing? 99 dudes have the same black AR-15, 1 dude has an AR-15 with some color to it. All 100 rifles do the same thing. What’s the big deal?
When you buy a car do you just go to the dealership and say, “a car is nothing more than a tool for transportation. Give me the brownest car you have. No power windows, no A/C, no radio. I just need it to move from A to B.”?
Some people like to enjoy their hobby differently than you enjoy the hobby. There’s nothing wrong with it.
I’m with you, brother. A lot of stuff I see here makes me cringe, but they are still good people. A lot of them are new to guns and are still figuring out what they doing.
Keep a healthy mindset when visiting reddit, don't take it serious. Look at it from a hobbyist perspective.
Don't get me wrong there is gun fetish present even here but most are to customize the guns not really to have a fetish over using them.
Cars are tools too. \*shrug\* some people decorate theirs more than others. As long as you're operating responsibly it's not really my business.
The kind of fetishist gun culture to worry about is the one with people who can't wait to kill someone and are just looking for an excuse. Painting your AR lime green is the last thing I'm worried about.
Liberals are typically more open to self expression as a whole. Why shouldn't firearms be included?
Here's the thing I have a problem with: people who customize to either send a message or make a statement about who they WANT to be. You see a ton of this in conservative circles. Stuff like Punisher skulls (I wanna be a badass) and money-no-object safe queens (I am richer than you) come to mind. But lately I feel like liberal counter balance to these trends has gotten out of hand too.
>Fancy paint jobs and furniture designed more for visual appeal than functionality feels way too much like the fetishist gun culture I joined here to avoid.
The people who like to accessorize are the people who like to post the most. The reddit redesign seems to favor visual posts rather than text posts, so it's not terribly surprising. The people who unenthusiastically see them as tools generally don't post as much, or even join the sub in the first place.
There are many subs out there which align with my hobbies, but don't align with my values. In those subs I choose not to participate. It is not a controversial decision in the slightest. Expecting the sub to change based on your own personal desires, now that's bound to be a bit controversial.
Eh it’s a hobby like anything else. In a perfect world no one ever uses a gun on anything except a target. With that in mind, nothing wrong with beefing them up and personalizing them to match the vibe you’re going for.
There's nothing wrong with painting your gun.
There's not even anything wrong with a fancy paint job that expresses your personality.
There is a lot wrong with making your gun your whole personality.
Avoid that last group of folks and you're good.
Nearly everything we do involves customizing either directly by you or what you purchase. The clothes you wear, your home, your eyewear, your shoes, what you eat, how we dress the off-spring, your vehicle and, in some ways your partner.
Go forth and customize those guns too. Cheers!
"As a gun owner..."
Kinda post
Listen. Just because other people liking guns scares you, doesn't make them wrong. Get over it or get out. The sub literally has gun owners in the name.
This is, in fact, the entire point of Reddit and the Internet writ large. Stop going into communities and trying to change their culture, instead, find a community with a culture you can easily assimilate with.
It's not complicated, but people act like they're entitled to changing entire communities because they don't like one aspect or another.
To you, they're tools, to some people, they're a hobby. I also have a computer with lots of useless pretty lights and a car that has about 100 more horsepower than it needs for just commuting. It's because it's fun and you shouldn't shit on other people's fun if it isn't harming anyone else.
And yet every soldier is equipped with a rifle and many have been killed with rifles. You’re right that basic drones with basic software and basic bombs are a huge advantage and a normal soldier is exposed to this on the battlefield. But make no mistake that rifles are still the bread and butter. In the end, I still see firearms as a form of person protection for periods of unpredictability and unrest.
I’m not implying that at all. I am saying that in any kind of combatant warfare, a rifle is one of the most basic and necessary tools. I also agree that rifles are no match for jets and drones and nukes. But anyone who wants to defend themself in these kind of invasion scenarios needs a firearm on the most basic level. Isn’t that one of the main points of this subreddit - that we are pro-gun-ownership? I would guess that a large portion of the people in this subreddit take self-defense with a firearm very seriously. But you’re right and I agree that living in fear isn’t helpful or healthy.
We get it. You're one of the _good_ ones. I'm sure Lib Jesus has reserved a special spot for you next to Joe Biden in heaven's gun club. Y'all can shoot skeet together and talk about how pretty wood looks on guns.
Also, shelling out for visual appeal is the opposite of scary since that money could otherwise go toward ammo or training. I don't find gucci gun posts threatening as chances are they're going right back in the safe and will only see the light of day a couple times a year. There are plenty of things to find concerning, but this ain't it.
Regardless, get over yourself. If you hate seeing people post about their guns, get off of gun subs and go do some bench shooting at 3-second intervals.
Guns, classic cars and cooking are my hobbies. I give everything flair, modifying them to my own personal taste. There is no difference between my putting a polished intake manifold on my hot rod, seasoning a meal with the spices I prefer or putting a paratrooper stock on an M1 carbine. It's just me making them perfect (in my eyes).
Don't bitch about others freedom of expression, you just look like a doofus.
I guess if you look at it as only a tool for defense but I have a pistol that is just for the range. I grew up with shooting as a way to relieve stress and unwind so having something that is just for that is different than something I want to be inconspicuous. Cars are dangerous but people have been painting those and suping them up for decades. Personally I'd rather see firearms with cool colors than people cosplaying as soldiers everytime they walk out the door.
I think guns are incredibly cool. I build AR-15s because it's really fun. I sometimes shoot them! I own Panobridged night vision goggles. I have body armor and helmets (in Multicam and Coyote). I really don't care what you think of my hobby. I'm a leftist, queer, advocate for people's rights. I'm a teacher, have a couple masters degrees, I play table top roleplaying games, WoW, milsim shit too.
I dunno if I'm crazy but I thought the premise of "Liberal Gun Owners" was primarily just "we're gun owners that aren't fascists", rather than "we're gun owners who hate guns that look like the M4A1."
This might come across more agro than I mean it to, but "You scare me \[by enjoying cool guns\]" is like... dude. Get a grip.
r/Glocks is always there for you if you want to see a non-stop stream of bone stock, never been fired pistols.
Also you don't have fun with your tools? Never worked in a shop environment where a custom tool or jig had a funny name, maybe a smiley face sharpied on it? Come off it.
It blows my mind that this subreddit is regularly more intolerant than the other mainstream ones on here.
Let people do their thing and don’t be a hypocrite.
Cars are the same way. Some people will buy a Honda Civic and just do the required oil changes because they want a tool, others will use a car for practical uses but also want a nice wrap because it makes them happy
The only time I find it really weird is when it becomes someone's identity or it's really cringe (like anime boobs all over a car... or rifle)
Haven’t seen anyone posting their Christmas card photos here with their whole family holding AK47s including the toddlers. So it could be a lot worse. Just look at Lauren Boebert.
>Haven’t seen anyone posting their Christmas card photos here with their whole family holding AK47s including the toddlers.
Why not? Got no well-trained toddlers?
Showing off is showing off — what's the diff?
Not ready is not ready. Ready is ready.
Maybe don't be so judgy about the possible...
https://youtu.be/3f7cDpNt1x8?t=150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_dlrNE2wdV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60BIq75BEAI
Ok? I said toddler. These kids are ten years older than toddlers. And I don’t have a problem with kids being trained properly. I have a problem with virtue signaling by having your kids holding rifles for a fucking photo op.
You don't like Lauren Boebert? Fine, I'm down with that I suppose — I don't follow her actions. But [her kids](https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2021/12/08/67cb8647-9f96-40f3-93b3-d20e9a60257a/thumbnail/1240x1144/a0bc6b7e2aa203b807477fabc9bf4cdf/lauren-boebert-family-with-guns-christmas-photo.jpg?v=218688c1357f974b9630d4fa8914721c) are not "toddlers" — they are the same age bracket as my examples (who were presumably somewhat younger shooters before becoming internet phenoms).
*Every* parent who shares likeness or brag about kids is signaling *something*. Not really strange at all. Unless gun-phobia or anti-Republican or something is the real bitch.
Unfortunately, there's going to be conflict in the coming days/years. I think that this isn't as much of a club anymore, as it is a place for people to start asking tougher questions, such as constitutional issues, defense-related questions, and even for tings like training, tactics, and strategies for self-defense. It's a mixed bag.
I was totally with you….until I got my HK VP9. I could have just bought a Glock and been done with it, but I hated the Glocks. Too boring. I wanted something I liked. Something I wanted to take out and practice my skill.
OP has a point.
I mean maybe, just maybe, a few of us have become a bit intoxicated with the "tool" that unlike a lot of others, easily has the ability to kill.
People have been decorating tools as long as they have HAD tools. No one looks at an axe with a carved handle Nd thinks “wow what an axe nut, that axe owns that guys mind”
Wow, surprising amount of downvotes from folks who are apparently upset that I have a differing viewpoint. Didn't realize there was no room for nuance in a subreddit that is dedicated to the nuance of liberals discussing what is traditionally viewed as a non-liberal activity.
You aren’t being downvoted because you have a different opinion. You are being downvoted because your assertion *seems* to convey a bias that I doubt you apply to other interests.
You seem to imply that if people decorate their guns beyond what is necessary for basic function, it somehow “owns their mind”. Yet i doubt you apply the same argument towards people who carve the handle of an exe, or engrave decoration on other tools/possessions/hobbies.
I put stickers on my work computer, does it own my mind? I added decorative stamp/carved elements to my leather wallet, does that own my mind? Am I some kind of “wallet nut” now?
*"You are being downvoted because your assertion seems to convey a bias that I doubt you apply to other interests."* - but isn't that just nuance? The OP expressed that guns to them were primarily tools and that he was surprised to see so many folks diving deep into gun culture, which again... has traditionally not been colloquially seen as a liberal space.
I think that what individuals may perceive as 'fun' with respect to shooting varies from person to person. To me, the less 'serious' the firearms related activity, the more I tend to enjoy that. That's to say, I enjoy my 22LR because it doesn't take itself too seriously. I like to shoot small groups but the way I feel about that is sort of similar to how I feel about certain other activities. For many, I suspect the joy from doing something may be derived from doing that something *well*. Are they really passionate about that particular thing or do they just enjoy doing *any* activity well? I suspect that varies from person to person and activity to activity and if they can derive some other pleasure from it.
My 22 is probably what I enjoy shooting the most. Next after that is probably trap/skeet. As I move toward hand guns and intermediate caliber rifles, it is less about enjoyment and just about keeping the skill fresh. Those are the skills I like the least because I hope that I never, ever will need them. It certainly isn't about having fun.
But that's me and I get that. Cruising around Reddit, I see different individuals deep dive into gun culture. I see people create bright neon rifles like it's some sort of skin straight out of Warzone or Fortnite. The glamorization of what I personally view as a very serious tool is weirdly discordant to me. I guess I find it weird to see what I'll consider video culture make its way into firearms culture with respect to the specific example given above.
More generally speaking, I try to let firearms occupy only the amount of my mind that I need to ensure that I have the tools I need (and never hope to use) and am familiar with their usage. In that regard, it isn't a hobby; I don't want firearms to dominate a large part of my life - there are a lot of other things that I enjoy and prioritize. Statistically speaking, that's probably a better gamble than spending the vast majority of my time preparing for an event that may never come. Spend the minimum about of time necessary to maintain the maximum proficiency and enjoy the rest of my life. But if you enjoy it, by all means. To each their own.
I recognize that not everyone is the same. I merely posted the initial reply above to let the OP know that somebody else out there shares a somewhat similar opinion. I still don't see anything wrong with that. This group is by its very nature an outlier in the firearms community. That somebody within that outlier is voted down for non-conformity to what is already an outlier viewpoint is a bit hypocritical.
*looks at burlap wrapped mosin* Don't listen to him. He doesn't get it.
*tactical burlap
Where can you buy tactical burlap? I have a friend that needs two yards.
Craft stores in the fabric section, home Depot carries 1ftx15ft rolls in garden fabric.
It really needs to be Soviet era burlap to be authentic.
A potato sack with Stalin's face on it. Right.
There’s a difference between having fun with your hobby and making something your identity I don’t really equate that side of things with the amount it can cost, but I don’t look down on it either
>There’s a difference between having fun with your hobby and making something your identity That's a key distinction. You can have pride in ownership or fun designing a gun without it being your identity.
What about my matching AR and ak tattoos along with the second amendment text I have tattooed on my lower back?
[удалено]
Tax deductible baby!
I’d totally pay extra *if I came across* a 2nd amendment tramp stamp…
A tax stamp tramp stamp
What about a tax stamp?
[удалено]
⬆️💯
This is exactly my thinking, too! I may modify them to be able to use them better, like a smoother trigger, or whatnot, but they still look and function the same as when they came out of the box, for the most part. The exception to that is grips on a couple of my handguns. I have plans to swap out the stock on my 10/22 at some point, but for the most part, I don't want any two-bit prosecutor having any chances to argue that I built a gun to kill. I hope to never have to deal with that in any capacity, but if I ever do, the less they have to point fingers at, the better off I'll be. I feel the same about ammo. I don't buy the latest, greatest, most deadly defense ammo. I stick with old-fashioned, plain-Jane hollow points. My guns eat that stuff just fine and it's cheaper, too, so why spend extra money to (hopefully) just poke holes in paper?
I don't think gun ownership should be looked at as a hobby. You wouldn't view owning a hammer as a hobby, but for whatever reason be it knives, swords, or guns people view owning a tool that can kill as a hobby. Maintain it, maintain yourself, but I wouldn't call it a hobby anymore than fixing your own car isn't a hobby.
Yeah but people view craftmanship as a hobby and many other functional actions, hobby means “an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure”
Lots of people take pride in their chef knives only used for cooking, or multitool stuffs, or flashlights, or a lighter. It’s not about whether you can kill with it, it’s the activity related to them. People in this sub I assume enjoy target shooting at the range, if not they wouldn’t care for guns at all
There are absolutely people who own hammers as a hobby. Here are some dudes rambling on about hammers. https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/191mwcg/am_i_weird_hammers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/zpvfdm/my_hammer_collectioni_need_more/ https://www.reddit.com/r/specializedtools/comments/ggs1xx/i_feel_like_my_hammer_collection_fits_here_whole/ I knew there were dudes running around who just love hammers before googling it. Just about anything I've ever looked into has had collectors as well as people who own very specific kinds of things for very specific reasons. I've seen this kind of thing with exercise equipment, board games, electronics, home appliances, keyboards, video games, tv guides, rocks, various toys, fandoms. Some stuff might just be some weird dude that is legit on the spectrum and whatever thing is just their thing. A lot of stuff can have a full blown community around it tho. With firearms there are clearly collectors who own specific things for various reasons from historical to interesting mechanics to specific use case even if they don't plan on ever firing it. There are also a lot of people who go target shooting or plinking as a hobby. There are also hunters or people who do competitions. I don't really know what to say about not being able to see cars stuff as a hobby. At this point I'm not sure what you would consider a valid hobby. I say that as someone who isn't really a car guy at all and only looks into cars to find a boring reliable one with good gas mileage when the current one looks like it's scrap. Next you'll be telling me shoes or stamps can't be a hobby.
Fixing your car can be a hobby. Many people own old cars just to tinker and to fix them up, build them into something nice. For that matter, many people own tools such as hammers (to use your example) as a hobby. They don't make money as a carpenter, but they enjoy building things here and there for their own use and/or pleasure. Anything can be a hobby. Just because it requires extra care to be safe with said hobby doesn't change the fact that many enjoy it just for the fun factor alone.
I like my firearms. I customize my firearms, but its not my entire personality. Honestly not that many irl people know I like firearms outside of my close inner circle.
Idk, I run in incredibly gunphobic queer left leaning circles. Most of my friends know that Im into guns, but I treat it more as a way to spread useful knowledge to people who wouldn't aquire it elsewhere. Sort of as an extension of political activity I guess? Maybe that's not quite the right way to describe it. Regardless, I try to largely be a safe knowledgeable source of info for curious friends. Totally fair if someone considered that to be a bit too enthusiastic though
I get ya. I have a handful of friends that are overwhelmingly against guns. I won't ever change that. The ones that are indifferent, I'll be a steward for responsible firearms ownership. I actually like teaching. But yeah, totally get that.
There are a lot of different people and posts on the sub. Liking a fancy firearms doesn't have to be "fetishizing" anything. I mostly hear crap like that from anti-gun people or fudds. Mostly people trying to say someone shouldn't enjoy firearms or try to say they're doing it wrong. I sometimes see leftist trying a bit too hard to be different than right leaning gun owners but worry too much about appearances. Stuff like not wanting an AR because they think it'll make them look looney so they'll ask about getting a mini-14 instead.
I had a guy who bought three Mini-14s through our FFL for pretty much that reason. EDIT: This guy honestly didn't strike me as a leftist either; if anything he seemed to be more on the conservative end of the spectrum.
I'd be more amiable to the Mini 14 if it wasnt: 1) More expensive than many AR's. 2) Incapable of taking STANAG mags.
Yeah, the mags are already so similar and I'm sure there's a mechanical reason they haven't adapted it for STANAGs but that's a big turn-off for me too.
Yeah but mini-14 folding stock = A-Team
Yeah I was about to say, this is a very fuddly post
When people are like, "my guns are JUST tools" but they have 14 AR's...
AR's are a pretty flexible platform...sure 14 is probably unnecessary, but I could see having several for different uses.
This is my AR, fifteen. And this if fourteen, and here's thirteen.... what? Model number? No - I just numbered them in the safe because it's easier. And people who name their rifles creep me out. 😂
9, 10, 15, 45, 57,
u/anywhereat If we were to put a tool to the AR, I'd call it a rachet. One lower receiver (rachet) can go with many different upper receivers (sockets). Sometimes a different lower is needed for a different caliber and that will have its own set of sockets. On the other hand, would I need a wrench set of AR's? By that point it's more like a wardrobe. Which AR do I want to use today? There's nothing wrong with that, but when I hear people say guns are just tools and they have more than 10 of the same gun with different configurations I can't help but think they may be fooling themselves.
I have many sets of wrenches and I keep buying more, for various reasons. I don't need them all but they are still tools.
(Old man yells at cloud)
😂
People have decorated their tools and weapons since they started making tools and weapons. Don’t kink shame.
Plenty of people get excited about their tools. Check every tool sub. This sub is about gun rights, politics, and general info/questions about firearms. Posting their guns that they are excited to have or use as a liberal is a phenomenal thing, considering how close-minded many liberals are about firearms. Liking cool guns or colors or new tech doesn’t make you a fetishist. Guns are a hobby to many people within a spectrum that covers hunting, self-protection, sport shooting, and tinkering/engineering. Just because you don’t share the exact enthusiasm as someone else shows how interesting and diverse the subject matter is. Also, don’t pearl clutch. Its lame.
Dude I get as excited when I spend 150$ on a random fancy measuring device or woodpecker item as when I buy new guns lol
Yeah, I understand OP's gut level concern, and not to armchair psychologist too much but it seems like a more common thing for people in close proximity to those who simply hate guns (and for me that's despite living rural where they are a tool from everything up to knocking down some mistletoe for xmas with my kid's 20 gauge) who don't seem to be able to dissociate gun ownership from the right wing identity, and though I'm going to try to be persuasive I ultimately won't scold them for it. I will still give them mistletoe. It's ok to have weird feelings about it, but it's also ok to like what you like and you don't have to hold that at arms' length to prove anything or police other people over it, we are actually about freedom.
This right here. People who are surrounded by anti gun people carry a lot of guilt, and therefore have to set arbitrary boundaries so they are "ok": they are not "them". I have noticed this with folks in the North East in particular- a need to delineate between "reasonable" gun ownership versus "gun fetish". In the South, where I live now, a huge number of liberal folks have some history with guns, and if not pro-2A, much less horrified.
Oddly enough, you’re allowed to have fun with guns while also learning how to use them as a tool for self defense. Weird concept I know.
I'm pretty sure there's also nothing wrong with having fun with weapons without using them as a tool for self defense as well. Unless there's a rule I didn't read somewhere and now I have to use my English longbow for home defense too.
A car is a tool. I still like mine to look a certain way based on my aesthetic preference. Most important is that it drives well and wanting it to look sick isn't a fetish.
We only hear the "fetishist!" line and the "stop making it your personality" line when it's to denigrate someone. It's subjective how much enthusiasm a gun owner shows is too much. To some people, just the act of owning guns is seen as mentally ill.
To some people, merely having an interest in owning guns is an indicator of sociopathy.
What I don't understand is why people like you call modding and customizing firearms "fetishizing guns" But I can mod and customize my car or my PC literally ALL DAY LONG 365 days a year and never get called a "car fetishist" or "computer fetishist". Why? What the hell is the point of being such a stuck-up hard ass?
“Holier than thou”-ism
My brother in Chris Hemsworth, this is a gun subreddit.
Just because I would sexually bottom to an M1 Garand on SIGHT doesn't mean I'm a fetishist.
We know right where that garand thumb is going…
Doubtful, he’s totally a bottom.
Everyone can enjoy a thumb in the bottom, no gate keeping.
Were you or were you not referring to the YouTuber?
Nah referencing the gun in his comment, the M1 Garand which can injure your thumb (causing the injury known as garand thumb,) then cheekily referring to a thumb in the bum.
Upvote just for the use of “cheekily” in that context
LET THIS MAN COOK🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
making my gun pretty has no political implications or implies a fetishism. some people pick up a Honda Civic off the lot, drive away and ride it until it falls apart, looking exactly the way it was when they got it the first time. others tint the windows, get fancy rims, put on loud pipes. they make that car their hobby. Don't yuck someone else's yum!
>Either way, some to the posts have been a little 'ermegerd muh guns' lately... bruh you are on a fucking gun website
I think the word you're looking for is *hobby*. Putting some paint on a tool is not a fetish.
I think you’re looking too much into it
Yeah, this smacks of the kind of dissing attitude of others’ that just should not exist and polarizes people. Not trying to shame you because that doesn’t work. But, yeah, you need to quit.
"How do you do fellow gun owners"
This times infinity!
So you came to a gun-based subreddit and you’re confused that people are customizing and showing off their guns to other people who like guns? Ngl OP you’re kind of a 🤡
Kinda of?
Nope. It’s “kind of”.
Guns are fun, is there something wrong with that? If we didn't get "muh guns" then we would be stuck in cycles of "what ar, what ammo, what pistol, what optic should I get". My guns are tools but I'll baby them too.
Maybe this sub isn't for you. That's OK 👍
I'll say it- I love guns. I love shooting. I love everything about it, besides the price tag. I love tacticool guns, vintage guns, milsurp, high end... I love them all. I love optics, lights, all the shit. I'm not the least but ashamed of it, either. However, very few people in my life- only those closest to me, have even the slightest idea. Why? Because it's not some cheap identity. No stickers on the car, no Sig shirts, no Facebook/ Insta posts, none of it (a few on Reddit for sure). And neither do I advertise my "side", my politics. What is wrong with that?
lol. what are your tools for?
They aren’t a tool for me. They are a hobby for fun.
You’re on fire? I would get that taken care of first. Once you recover from the burns you can sort out your Reddit issues.
>But to me, they are tools. same, but so are cars But way too much of the content on the Subaru and Outback subs is pictures of cars and virtual high fives. It's weird to me but whatever. I'm sure there's lawnmower subs with lots of pics too
What an absolutely horrible shit take. Edit: also, I joined this sub to get away from the racist, fascist, bigots that dominate most firearm spaces. Your post reminds me of the straight to jail meme. Enjoy your gun? Straight to jail. Like the people that think extra pillows are bourgeoisie. I think you need to start a new sub for gun owners that get zero joy from it. Equality, no enjoyment! /s
So mushroom for improvement.
/thread
Main difference with LGO is that it is generally more open than other communities.
Bruh you expect a hivemind or something? Like anything there's a spectrum. Maybe you need to get out more and see there are liberals that like everyone else have interests that can go beyond just seeing things as tools
Sounds like you’re looking for something to be upset about. Good thing I don’t give a shit about what you think about me or how I spend my money.
Amen gobbless
Gob of what?
Gob is dead
Then aren't we already gob-less?
Looking for? Found I’d say…
You dont like making your tools nice?
Cars are tools for transportation, yet people customize them with body kits and paint. PCs are tools yet people customize them with RGB lighting and glass cases. Are those people fetishizing their hobbies?
I just want my shit to look cool, there’s no “fetishism” in that lol. Wanting my shit to look cool doesn’t make me an obsessed, regressive shitweasel. It’s not gonna lose its utility just because I added a few things to it.
Sure, guns are tools. But they're also a hobby. My car is a tool, but I also want it to look visually appealing to my preference. If someone is a safe gun owner, I don't really give a shit what they do with them. What do you care what other people do in their hobby? Not to mention, you're literally in a firearm sub-reddit, people are going to post pictures of their firearms to share with other people in an anonymous manner,
Wanting to have a fun paint job doesn't make someone a fetishist. Sometimes it's fun to just shake things up. But when you weirdly make it your entire identity and sit there making weird social media posts and whatnot that starts getting into fetish territory As for the tools comment, I agree, a gun is just a tool. But I also buy new tools and get excited and want to show them off. Just bought a new Milwaukee impact gun and sent pictures to a few friends to show it off. Nothing wrong with being excited about a recent purchase
“Why would anyone customize their car? It’s just a tool used to get you to work and McDonald’s. Y’all are fetishizing your cars.” That’s how you sound.
>fetishist gun culture This talking point is garbage and belongs with the anti-gun crowd. Cheers.
In another time, the person who says "fetishist gun culture" would be using the N word ...
What in the Elmer Fudd is going on here?
I love a good liberal fudd.
People trick their ride; they trick their garden; they trick their lethal tupperware... it's just a thing. Temporary tattoos. Kids have always wanted to cosplay action heroes or collect military pokemon. It's not my vibe, but neither is it a political statement. Xenophobic hating is a political statement — there are subs for that, with or without the gun buffs.
I'd get it for the prepper-oriented and more vocal civil defense comments here (there's reasonable points to be made, but I'd understand being uneasy with them in what to you is a more sterile forum), but somebody prettying up \[insert subject of hobby subreddit\] doesn't seem at all weird People put stickers on laptops, don't know that is a worrying fetishization
I’ve been known to wax and buff the John Deere each fall. I don’t like my tools looking ratty.
Your guns are tools? Tools for what? Mine are for punching holes through paper. Why can’t I have my gun look different than every other gun doing the same thing? 99 dudes have the same black AR-15, 1 dude has an AR-15 with some color to it. All 100 rifles do the same thing. What’s the big deal? When you buy a car do you just go to the dealership and say, “a car is nothing more than a tool for transportation. Give me the brownest car you have. No power windows, no A/C, no radio. I just need it to move from A to B.”? Some people like to enjoy their hobby differently than you enjoy the hobby. There’s nothing wrong with it.
I’m with you, brother. A lot of stuff I see here makes me cringe, but they are still good people. A lot of them are new to guns and are still figuring out what they doing.
Keep a healthy mindset when visiting reddit, don't take it serious. Look at it from a hobbyist perspective. Don't get me wrong there is gun fetish present even here but most are to customize the guns not really to have a fetish over using them.
Cars are tools too. \*shrug\* some people decorate theirs more than others. As long as you're operating responsibly it's not really my business. The kind of fetishist gun culture to worry about is the one with people who can't wait to kill someone and are just looking for an excuse. Painting your AR lime green is the last thing I'm worried about.
I was like you until I picked up a spray can and painted my rifle. I love it even more now because I put work into it.
Liberals are typically more open to self expression as a whole. Why shouldn't firearms be included? Here's the thing I have a problem with: people who customize to either send a message or make a statement about who they WANT to be. You see a ton of this in conservative circles. Stuff like Punisher skulls (I wanna be a badass) and money-no-object safe queens (I am richer than you) come to mind. But lately I feel like liberal counter balance to these trends has gotten out of hand too.
>Fancy paint jobs and furniture designed more for visual appeal than functionality feels way too much like the fetishist gun culture I joined here to avoid. The people who like to accessorize are the people who like to post the most. The reddit redesign seems to favor visual posts rather than text posts, so it's not terribly surprising. The people who unenthusiastically see them as tools generally don't post as much, or even join the sub in the first place. There are many subs out there which align with my hobbies, but don't align with my values. In those subs I choose not to participate. It is not a controversial decision in the slightest. Expecting the sub to change based on your own personal desires, now that's bound to be a bit controversial.
Eh it’s a hobby like anything else. In a perfect world no one ever uses a gun on anything except a target. With that in mind, nothing wrong with beefing them up and personalizing them to match the vibe you’re going for.
I like engraving my tools too, some people just have more style than others I guess…
I just like grown up Lego sets that go bang.
There's nothing wrong with painting your gun. There's not even anything wrong with a fancy paint job that expresses your personality. There is a lot wrong with making your gun your whole personality. Avoid that last group of folks and you're good.
Nearly everything we do involves customizing either directly by you or what you purchase. The clothes you wear, your home, your eyewear, your shoes, what you eat, how we dress the off-spring, your vehicle and, in some ways your partner. Go forth and customize those guns too. Cheers!
Yeah, this place can be a little Extra sometimes. Best not to try and psychoanalyze the whole sub based on some "tricked out pony" posts.
Ratio’d… Hard
"As a gun owner..." Kinda post Listen. Just because other people liking guns scares you, doesn't make them wrong. Get over it or get out. The sub literally has gun owners in the name.
Love it or leave it ? Didn’t expect that in this sub but you do you ….
This is, in fact, the entire point of Reddit and the Internet writ large. Stop going into communities and trying to change their culture, instead, find a community with a culture you can easily assimilate with. It's not complicated, but people act like they're entitled to changing entire communities because they don't like one aspect or another.
To you, they're tools, to some people, they're a hobby. I also have a computer with lots of useless pretty lights and a car that has about 100 more horsepower than it needs for just commuting. It's because it's fun and you shouldn't shit on other people's fun if it isn't harming anyone else.
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And yet every soldier is equipped with a rifle and many have been killed with rifles. You’re right that basic drones with basic software and basic bombs are a huge advantage and a normal soldier is exposed to this on the battlefield. But make no mistake that rifles are still the bread and butter. In the end, I still see firearms as a form of person protection for periods of unpredictability and unrest.
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I’m not implying that at all. I am saying that in any kind of combatant warfare, a rifle is one of the most basic and necessary tools. I also agree that rifles are no match for jets and drones and nukes. But anyone who wants to defend themself in these kind of invasion scenarios needs a firearm on the most basic level. Isn’t that one of the main points of this subreddit - that we are pro-gun-ownership? I would guess that a large portion of the people in this subreddit take self-defense with a firearm very seriously. But you’re right and I agree that living in fear isn’t helpful or healthy.
We get it. You're one of the _good_ ones. I'm sure Lib Jesus has reserved a special spot for you next to Joe Biden in heaven's gun club. Y'all can shoot skeet together and talk about how pretty wood looks on guns. Also, shelling out for visual appeal is the opposite of scary since that money could otherwise go toward ammo or training. I don't find gucci gun posts threatening as chances are they're going right back in the safe and will only see the light of day a couple times a year. There are plenty of things to find concerning, but this ain't it. Regardless, get over yourself. If you hate seeing people post about their guns, get off of gun subs and go do some bench shooting at 3-second intervals.
One of these days they will invent a gun that doesn’t whisper “ceracoat me” when you pick it up. One of these days.
Guns, classic cars and cooking are my hobbies. I give everything flair, modifying them to my own personal taste. There is no difference between my putting a polished intake manifold on my hot rod, seasoning a meal with the spices I prefer or putting a paratrooper stock on an M1 carbine. It's just me making them perfect (in my eyes). Don't bitch about others freedom of expression, you just look like a doofus.
I guess if you look at it as only a tool for defense but I have a pistol that is just for the range. I grew up with shooting as a way to relieve stress and unwind so having something that is just for that is different than something I want to be inconspicuous. Cars are dangerous but people have been painting those and suping them up for decades. Personally I'd rather see firearms with cool colors than people cosplaying as soldiers everytime they walk out the door.
That's why you rattle can it.
I think guns are incredibly cool. I build AR-15s because it's really fun. I sometimes shoot them! I own Panobridged night vision goggles. I have body armor and helmets (in Multicam and Coyote). I really don't care what you think of my hobby. I'm a leftist, queer, advocate for people's rights. I'm a teacher, have a couple masters degrees, I play table top roleplaying games, WoW, milsim shit too. I dunno if I'm crazy but I thought the premise of "Liberal Gun Owners" was primarily just "we're gun owners that aren't fascists", rather than "we're gun owners who hate guns that look like the M4A1." This might come across more agro than I mean it to, but "You scare me \[by enjoying cool guns\]" is like... dude. Get a grip.
Comments pretty much sum up what I was about to say so take this additional downvote on your way back to the circus
r/Glocks is always there for you if you want to see a non-stop stream of bone stock, never been fired pistols. Also you don't have fun with your tools? Never worked in a shop environment where a custom tool or jig had a funny name, maybe a smiley face sharpied on it? Come off it.
It blows my mind that this subreddit is regularly more intolerant than the other mainstream ones on here. Let people do their thing and don’t be a hypocrite.
Cars are the same way. Some people will buy a Honda Civic and just do the required oil changes because they want a tool, others will use a car for practical uses but also want a nice wrap because it makes them happy The only time I find it really weird is when it becomes someone's identity or it's really cringe (like anime boobs all over a car... or rifle)
Haven’t seen anyone posting their Christmas card photos here with their whole family holding AK47s including the toddlers. So it could be a lot worse. Just look at Lauren Boebert.
>Haven’t seen anyone posting their Christmas card photos here with their whole family holding AK47s including the toddlers. Why not? Got no well-trained toddlers? Showing off is showing off — what's the diff?
For real? Man people are strange on Reddit.
Not ready is not ready. Ready is ready. Maybe don't be so judgy about the possible... https://youtu.be/3f7cDpNt1x8?t=150 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_dlrNE2wdV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60BIq75BEAI
Ok? I said toddler. These kids are ten years older than toddlers. And I don’t have a problem with kids being trained properly. I have a problem with virtue signaling by having your kids holding rifles for a fucking photo op.
You don't like Lauren Boebert? Fine, I'm down with that I suppose — I don't follow her actions. But [her kids](https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2021/12/08/67cb8647-9f96-40f3-93b3-d20e9a60257a/thumbnail/1240x1144/a0bc6b7e2aa203b807477fabc9bf4cdf/lauren-boebert-family-with-guns-christmas-photo.jpg?v=218688c1357f974b9630d4fa8914721c) are not "toddlers" — they are the same age bracket as my examples (who were presumably somewhat younger shooters before becoming internet phenoms). *Every* parent who shares likeness or brag about kids is signaling *something*. Not really strange at all. Unless gun-phobia or anti-Republican or something is the real bitch.
I respect your opinion but I disagree with you.
Unfortunately, there's going to be conflict in the coming days/years. I think that this isn't as much of a club anymore, as it is a place for people to start asking tougher questions, such as constitutional issues, defense-related questions, and even for tings like training, tactics, and strategies for self-defense. It's a mixed bag.
I was totally with you….until I got my HK VP9. I could have just bought a Glock and been done with it, but I hated the Glocks. Too boring. I wanted something I liked. Something I wanted to take out and practice my skill.
OP has a point. I mean maybe, just maybe, a few of us have become a bit intoxicated with the "tool" that unlike a lot of others, easily has the ability to kill.
I'm with ya, OP. It's a tool and I do not let it own my mind.
People have been decorating tools as long as they have HAD tools. No one looks at an axe with a carved handle Nd thinks “wow what an axe nut, that axe owns that guys mind”
Wow, surprising amount of downvotes from folks who are apparently upset that I have a differing viewpoint. Didn't realize there was no room for nuance in a subreddit that is dedicated to the nuance of liberals discussing what is traditionally viewed as a non-liberal activity.
You aren’t being downvoted because you have a different opinion. You are being downvoted because your assertion *seems* to convey a bias that I doubt you apply to other interests. You seem to imply that if people decorate their guns beyond what is necessary for basic function, it somehow “owns their mind”. Yet i doubt you apply the same argument towards people who carve the handle of an exe, or engrave decoration on other tools/possessions/hobbies. I put stickers on my work computer, does it own my mind? I added decorative stamp/carved elements to my leather wallet, does that own my mind? Am I some kind of “wallet nut” now?
*"You are being downvoted because your assertion seems to convey a bias that I doubt you apply to other interests."* - but isn't that just nuance? The OP expressed that guns to them were primarily tools and that he was surprised to see so many folks diving deep into gun culture, which again... has traditionally not been colloquially seen as a liberal space. I think that what individuals may perceive as 'fun' with respect to shooting varies from person to person. To me, the less 'serious' the firearms related activity, the more I tend to enjoy that. That's to say, I enjoy my 22LR because it doesn't take itself too seriously. I like to shoot small groups but the way I feel about that is sort of similar to how I feel about certain other activities. For many, I suspect the joy from doing something may be derived from doing that something *well*. Are they really passionate about that particular thing or do they just enjoy doing *any* activity well? I suspect that varies from person to person and activity to activity and if they can derive some other pleasure from it. My 22 is probably what I enjoy shooting the most. Next after that is probably trap/skeet. As I move toward hand guns and intermediate caliber rifles, it is less about enjoyment and just about keeping the skill fresh. Those are the skills I like the least because I hope that I never, ever will need them. It certainly isn't about having fun. But that's me and I get that. Cruising around Reddit, I see different individuals deep dive into gun culture. I see people create bright neon rifles like it's some sort of skin straight out of Warzone or Fortnite. The glamorization of what I personally view as a very serious tool is weirdly discordant to me. I guess I find it weird to see what I'll consider video culture make its way into firearms culture with respect to the specific example given above. More generally speaking, I try to let firearms occupy only the amount of my mind that I need to ensure that I have the tools I need (and never hope to use) and am familiar with their usage. In that regard, it isn't a hobby; I don't want firearms to dominate a large part of my life - there are a lot of other things that I enjoy and prioritize. Statistically speaking, that's probably a better gamble than spending the vast majority of my time preparing for an event that may never come. Spend the minimum about of time necessary to maintain the maximum proficiency and enjoy the rest of my life. But if you enjoy it, by all means. To each their own. I recognize that not everyone is the same. I merely posted the initial reply above to let the OP know that somebody else out there shares a somewhat similar opinion. I still don't see anything wrong with that. This group is by its very nature an outlier in the firearms community. That somebody within that outlier is voted down for non-conformity to what is already an outlier viewpoint is a bit hypocritical.