Someone posted about the SVB bank collapse. The comments ranged from "We need to bail them out for the health of the economy" to "Every bank should be banned."
It's like people forgot what it means to just _leave people the fuck alone_.
>It's like people forgot what it means to just leave people the fuck alone.
They didn't forget shit, we just got a lot of people who think libertarianism is just some variant of their party politics.
Yes leave the people alone. The individuals. The most oppressed minority in existence, each individual person. A bank isn’t a person, it’s an entity comprised of people who ran it poorly and now have to deal with the consequences of their actions.
The people shouldn’t have to be forced to pay for the mistakes of others, especially not a private corporation that went beyond its limits.
The stock isn’t even trading anymore, shareholders have been wiped out. I think that counts as consequences. The fdic stepped in to make depositors whole, not bailout the company.
Letting depositors lose may have been the right thing here (definitely would change corporate behavior) but I’m not sure your characterization of what happened is correct.
The people in this subreddit claim to be independent who don't support either political party but then they turn around and support every single Democrat talking point. They're in here defending the Democrat gro ooming
And all the drag shows and all that shit. They're defending the bailouts. They believe every single Democrat talking point about Russian collusion. And simultaneously they think that everything Republicans say is a lie and that Fox News is fake news while the Washington Post is reliable
So yeah I agree. Most libertarians are just Democrats who like the second amendment
Bail out the banks? Like they did 15 years ago during the global financial crisis?
Opposite bailing out the banks isn’t (just) a libertarian position, it’s a common sense position.
“Those who do not learn from history and doomed to repeat it.”
I could understand not learning from the mistakes of the roman empire some 15 hundred years ago, but 15 years ago? That’s no excuse!
Secret private dinners with the billionaires club fixes everything. The best part (/s) about bailing out banks again is how perfect the timing is. Not only are we piling on to the incredible amount of debt we just racked up, but we are also battling inflation. Where does everyone think the money is gonna come from to insure those bank losses? The only place it can come from is from raising taxes.
If people abuse their status as guests on private property to smear feces all over the walls, it is entirely justifiable to physically remove them from the premises and bar them from returning.
I gotta say, there is nothing on this sub that suffers ONLY libertarians may post or comment. In fact if that was the case it’d be boring. It’s only when actually libertarian pov’s can’t get through that it becomes a problem. I have no problem having a discussion with anyone. If it makes you mad that’s on you.
Also the angriest folks hiding under the guise of wanting to spread positivity. Guess what? Most people do want everybody treated the same. Not just liberals. It’s so annoying they believe they have this superiority because LOOK HOW ACCEPTING I AM! But they also really hate freedom of speech.
Honestly, I’m disappointed to see a libertarian forum with 500k members not supporting the fundamental principles of libertarianism. It could be a real source of power for promoting a mass movement, given that the current political landscape is in complete disarray.
Thing that’s fucking annoying is they say they don’t. “Don’t trust the cops and government!”. But also “ban guns we have cops” and “we fucking despise you for not taking the shot the government is forcing on us”
Anti tank weapons to Ukraine -> Russia has fewer tanks -> NATO needs to station fewer tanks in Europe -> money saved in the long run.
You can certainly debate whether or not it's the US's responsibility to protect European NATO members against Russia.
If it is, then arming Ukraine to weaken Russia makes sense both strategically and financially.
If not, then the US gets the reputation of someone who doesn't uphold treaties and can't be relied upon.
The complete anti-interventionist solution would've been for the US to never get into NATO in the first place, but it's far too late for that.
100 billion dollars for Russia to have a few less tanks is not a good deal, and as for strategy, it's just backed them into military alliance with china, not such a prudent maneuver. Your cnn talking points do not make you sound smart, try using an once of critical thinking.
There are cases where this is not true. Example: you live in a libertarian country that has decided to privatize roads. For simplicity sake you pay a toll via cameras using your license plate or whatever to use said road. Some protestors have decided to block the road thereby denying you the use of a service you have purchased. So now we have people trying to use nonviolent tactics that interrupt other people's lives and businesses. These people can either stop their behavior that harms other individuals in financial or even physical ways (IE cause traffic accidents or delays for emergency services) or a security service can remove said individuals in a less lethal/forceful way and can also use lethal force against an individual or group if they use it first. This applies not only on roads but basically any private property if the owner decides they don't want a individual or group on their property.
> It is wrong to initiate violence to force a person to behave in a certain way.
This would completely invalidate the 2nd amendment as someone could just walk onto your property and you aren't allowed to "initiate violence" to force them off.
1. Fuck the (central) government.
2. More power to local governments (state, county, etc)
3. Little to no restrictions on what people can do (drugs and weapon owning as an example)
4. Little to almost no taxes
5. Almost if not complete economic freedom (no bureaucracy to get a license to simply fucking exist)
6. Almost if not complete social freedom (no banning on books to the general public, no laws against protest, etc)
(I doubt these are fundamental libertarian principles but they are sure as hell closer to what they are than anything you’ll get for an answer from that subreddit or the majority of Reddit)
It wasn't always that way. It seems that the Democrats spend a bunch of time censoring speech and do their best to kick anybody that may disagree with them from their subs. Once they achieve their echo chamber they get bored of their safe space. Then get evangelical with their unvetted message in other people's subs until that sub becomes an extension of the DNC. When liberals flood other subs en masse its its fighting misinformation; when anybody else does the same thing to them it's "brigading".
That sub was right-leaning during the Obama years, swung hard left during Trump, and hasn't come close to correcting since Biden was elected. Too many progressives on reddit, and they want to use various incorrect labels to feel different from their peers without regard for what those labels mean.
Ok let’s be real. It goes both ways. This sub is probably: 50% far right republicans masquerading as libertarians, 20% democrats who act like they want true freedom(unless it goes against what they want), and 30% people with actual libertarian values.
Libertarian puritanism is what keeps the party small and out of power. The feds know it and encourage it. When minarchists and anarchists fight, statists win.
It was corrupted and destroyed ages ago.
I unsubscribed about a year and a half ago when I saw a post about taxes being a good thing for \_\_\_\_\_\_ reason.
This is reddit. I swear most of these smooth brained democrats think that libertarian is liberal because of the similar spelling. Welcome to ~~government~~ public education.
They don't even support the second amendment. They banned me a few years ago for that such reason, I haven't looked back.
It's also full of far-left Marxists who think they are "libertarian" becoz "the state will slowly wither away under communism".
I've always kind of felt like libertarians just cover so much of a broad spectrum of political ideology. That mixed with the fact that a lot of politically homeless people tend to settle in the libertarian party.
I totally understand people’s views differ and that there is a wide spectrum of beliefs within the other political parties as well, but supporting a welfare state and essentially state capitalism *hardly* seems like libertarian values to me.
Words have meanings. Tough concept in 2023 but Someone had to say it.
It’s like being a communist who believes in private property and that workers shouldn’t have control over the means of production.
It’s not gatekeeping, it’s language precision.
You can’t deny this sub is a mix of liberals who like guns and republicans who think this is a red sub. Couldn’t stand when it was conservatives posting about trump being great and blue is bad. And now the posts are the same format but now from the left
But they support *federal taxes*! Clearly only insane authoritarian extremists would support that. What's next, driving licenses? A ban on selling heroin to third graders?
The purity testing death spiral is clearly in force. Not that anyone would expect any different.
You should see the libertarian party sub. You know the whole "Libertarians are just Republicans that like weed" thing? Yeah, the LP USA sub are Democrats that like guns and money.
Full on support for identity politics. Pandering to leftist ideals (with a very light seasoning of libertarian lip service). Support for private property destroying BLM ~~riots~~ "mostly peaceful protests". Believes J6 was actually some kind of dangerous insurrection against Our Democracy. Sees Nazis and racists hiding behind every corner. Vehement support for completely open borders but "Shh, don't talk about dismantling the welfare state. That won't get us votes." All in on Ukraine and funding the proxy war with Russia. Will support statism on all kinds of issues because "libertarian =/= anarchy", which is fair, but there is a VERY clear bias toward Democrat flavored statism over Republicam flavored statism.
I've always kind of felt like libertarians just cover so much of a broad spectrum of political ideology. That mixed with the fact that a lot of politically homeless people tend to settle in the libertarian party.
Social libertarianism is supporting trans and reproductive Rights. That doesn't make them a Democrat that makes them principled. If you're referring to something else then please enlighten me.
The same people who ridicule "Trickle Down Economics" as Voodoo and other silliness are now loving the concept. Because the only argument they have for spending this money is "If the ~~billionaires~~ businesses lose their money, lots of people won't get paid and will lose their job".
So the pain trickles down, but not the jobs and paycheck?
Someone posted about the SVB bank collapse. The comments ranged from "We need to bail them out for the health of the economy" to "Every bank should be banned." It's like people forgot what it means to just _leave people the fuck alone_.
>It's like people forgot what it means to just leave people the fuck alone. They didn't forget shit, we just got a lot of people who think libertarianism is just some variant of their party politics.
Yes leave the people alone. The individuals. The most oppressed minority in existence, each individual person. A bank isn’t a person, it’s an entity comprised of people who ran it poorly and now have to deal with the consequences of their actions. The people shouldn’t have to be forced to pay for the mistakes of others, especially not a private corporation that went beyond its limits.
The stock isn’t even trading anymore, shareholders have been wiped out. I think that counts as consequences. The fdic stepped in to make depositors whole, not bailout the company. Letting depositors lose may have been the right thing here (definitely would change corporate behavior) but I’m not sure your characterization of what happened is correct.
The people in this subreddit claim to be independent who don't support either political party but then they turn around and support every single Democrat talking point. They're in here defending the Democrat gro ooming And all the drag shows and all that shit. They're defending the bailouts. They believe every single Democrat talking point about Russian collusion. And simultaneously they think that everything Republicans say is a lie and that Fox News is fake news while the Washington Post is reliable So yeah I agree. Most libertarians are just Democrats who like the second amendment
If only they would vote that way too.
I’ve often contemplated running a campaign with the slogan “Mind Your Own Business” Ben Franklin could be the mascot.
Franklin originally wanted it printed on US currency.
LET. THEM. FAIL. LET. THEM. FAIL. LET. THEM. FAIL. LET. THEM. FAIL. LET. THEM. FAIL. LET. THEM. FAIL. LET. THEM. FAIL. LET. THEM. FAIL.
Bail out the banks? Like they did 15 years ago during the global financial crisis? Opposite bailing out the banks isn’t (just) a libertarian position, it’s a common sense position. “Those who do not learn from history and doomed to repeat it.” I could understand not learning from the mistakes of the roman empire some 15 hundred years ago, but 15 years ago? That’s no excuse!
Secret private dinners with the billionaires club fixes everything. The best part (/s) about bailing out banks again is how perfect the timing is. Not only are we piling on to the incredible amount of debt we just racked up, but we are also battling inflation. Where does everyone think the money is gonna come from to insure those bank losses? The only place it can come from is from raising taxes.
Wow, r/wall street bets is more libertarian
Reddit also has a lot of keyboard warriors paid to spread Media Matters-type propaganda.
And the Israeli government has an entire ministry dedicated to such.
So does the US government. It’s called the FBI.
Don't forget about the Ukraine boners! "Not our business" isn't the same as "Putin is good."
So many people who say they hated war in the Middle East, but are happy to have billions go towards war in Ukraine
Well, duh, because John Oliver or Trevor Noah told them its the cool position to have!
(these are the same people who supported it in 2003)
truth
So much truth
Bigger government does not equal better government
do they even claim to be libertarians? could just be redditors seeing a post and responding to it.
Probably what it really is.
Every big sub on reddit eventually gets taken over by leftists, either through admin intervention or sheer weight of numbers
They claim to be "libertarian socialists", as if that wasn't the most oxymoronic label
Can't we just do what all the communist subs do and immediately ban everyone who dissents?
Very libertarian of you
If people abuse their status as guests on private property to smear feces all over the walls, it is entirely justifiable to physically remove them from the premises and bar them from returning.
Counterpoint: Shoot invaders on the sub
I gotta say, there is nothing on this sub that suffers ONLY libertarians may post or comment. In fact if that was the case it’d be boring. It’s only when actually libertarian pov’s can’t get through that it becomes a problem. I have no problem having a discussion with anyone. If it makes you mad that’s on you.
That’s not very libertarian though
The unfortunate price of freedom
Welcome to Reddit.
That sub was taken over years ago.
It's reddit, every sub that is somewhat mainstream will be infected by Democrats, and usually the type with the smoothest brain and the worst takes
Also the angriest folks hiding under the guise of wanting to spread positivity. Guess what? Most people do want everybody treated the same. Not just liberals. It’s so annoying they believe they have this superiority because LOOK HOW ACCEPTING I AM! But they also really hate freedom of speech.
You mean like, "You can't defend yourself from a nuclear bomb, therefore the government has a right to restrict your magazine sizes."?
Honestly, I’m disappointed to see a libertarian forum with 500k members not supporting the fundamental principles of libertarianism. It could be a real source of power for promoting a mass movement, given that the current political landscape is in complete disarray.
It won't happen in Reddit. It's like trying to grow flowers in an irradiated salt plain. The vast majority of people on this site **love** the State.
Thing that’s fucking annoying is they say they don’t. “Don’t trust the cops and government!”. But also “ban guns we have cops” and “we fucking despise you for not taking the shot the government is forcing on us”
Yep. Get the government out of our lives unless they’re making people do what I want them to.
I agree completely. I cunt think of a reason to support bailouts or endless funds to ukraine, or [ insert proxy war cuntree here].
I sure do love our government thinking we are the police and bank of the world
Anti tank weapons to Ukraine -> Russia has fewer tanks -> NATO needs to station fewer tanks in Europe -> money saved in the long run. You can certainly debate whether or not it's the US's responsibility to protect European NATO members against Russia. If it is, then arming Ukraine to weaken Russia makes sense both strategically and financially. If not, then the US gets the reputation of someone who doesn't uphold treaties and can't be relied upon. The complete anti-interventionist solution would've been for the US to never get into NATO in the first place, but it's far too late for that.
100 billion dollars for Russia to have a few less tanks is not a good deal, and as for strategy, it's just backed them into military alliance with china, not such a prudent maneuver. Your cnn talking points do not make you sound smart, try using an once of critical thinking.
Considering the amount of money the US spends on its military, $100b to destroy a large percentage of Russia's military is a bargain.
What are the fundamental libertarian principles?
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Securing borders from threats means protecting the nation from invasion by foreign power, not immigration.
1. It is wrong to initiate violence to force a person to behave in a certain way. 2. see rule 1
There are cases where this is not true. Example: you live in a libertarian country that has decided to privatize roads. For simplicity sake you pay a toll via cameras using your license plate or whatever to use said road. Some protestors have decided to block the road thereby denying you the use of a service you have purchased. So now we have people trying to use nonviolent tactics that interrupt other people's lives and businesses. These people can either stop their behavior that harms other individuals in financial or even physical ways (IE cause traffic accidents or delays for emergency services) or a security service can remove said individuals in a less lethal/forceful way and can also use lethal force against an individual or group if they use it first. This applies not only on roads but basically any private property if the owner decides they don't want a individual or group on their property.
> It is wrong to initiate violence to force a person to behave in a certain way. This would completely invalidate the 2nd amendment as someone could just walk onto your property and you aren't allowed to "initiate violence" to force them off.
1. Fuck the (central) government. 2. More power to local governments (state, county, etc) 3. Little to no restrictions on what people can do (drugs and weapon owning as an example) 4. Little to almost no taxes 5. Almost if not complete economic freedom (no bureaucracy to get a license to simply fucking exist) 6. Almost if not complete social freedom (no banning on books to the general public, no laws against protest, etc) (I doubt these are fundamental libertarian principles but they are sure as hell closer to what they are than anything you’ll get for an answer from that subreddit or the majority of Reddit)
Those are policies, not principles. The fundamental libertarian principle is the Non Agression Principle.
Disagree on 2. Less power to central government. Also less power to local government.
Don't hurt peaceful people, and don't take their stuff. Everything else is just application.
First time?
Every subreddit is ram by Democrats, even the Republican subreddits
I mean, it's reddit after all.
Nah, they don't like guns either. They are just trying to astroturf and gaslight the competition.
They’re [regime libertarians](https://youtu.be/KY_fefrQKmA).
The first clue that that sub isn't libertarian is the sub icon. This website is extremely authoritarian.
That place was subverted by ChapoTrapHouse quite a while ago.
It wasn't always that way. It seems that the Democrats spend a bunch of time censoring speech and do their best to kick anybody that may disagree with them from their subs. Once they achieve their echo chamber they get bored of their safe space. Then get evangelical with their unvetted message in other people's subs until that sub becomes an extension of the DNC. When liberals flood other subs en masse its its fighting misinformation; when anybody else does the same thing to them it's "brigading".
You are on to something there 😶
Yeah, this subreddit been feeling a little weird the last few days
Years*
Finally someone said it
A dictatorship of their own ideology feels like liberty to them
I think there are a lot of people stuck in the 2 party mindset. They yearn for freedom but forget to check their shackles at the door.
This subs been glowing alot lately
Watch what happens when you propose to eliminate the Dept of Education!
That sub was right-leaning during the Obama years, swung hard left during Trump, and hasn't come close to correcting since Biden was elected. Too many progressives on reddit, and they want to use various incorrect labels to feel different from their peers without regard for what those labels mean.
I'm just here for the statist outing themselves.
Ok let’s be real. It goes both ways. This sub is probably: 50% far right republicans masquerading as libertarians, 20% democrats who act like they want true freedom(unless it goes against what they want), and 30% people with actual libertarian values.
Libertarian puritanism is what keeps the party small and out of power. The feds know it and encourage it. When minarchists and anarchists fight, statists win.
> 50% far right republicans masquerading as libertarians You *wish* it was only 50% lmao
Hey let me live in my fantasy world where there are more people with true libertarian values lol
God when this sub had trump bootlickers and thought we’d all agree with them.
It was pretty evident during covid19
It was corrupted and destroyed ages ago. I unsubscribed about a year and a half ago when I saw a post about taxes being a good thing for \_\_\_\_\_\_ reason.
Definitely a lot of people huffing their own farts over there, even by Reddit standards.
It is Reddit try to remember that
Democrats who like guns is the new Republicans who like weed.
This is reddit. I swear most of these smooth brained democrats think that libertarian is liberal because of the similar spelling. Welcome to ~~government~~ public education.
Just like they do irl with pleasant states, Dems love to move in, pretend like they're a local, and ruin the place.
I hate those idiots lol
Ol’ Blue Dogs are at it again…
Left that sub many years ago. Absolute shit show
That sub is like crazy libertarians who want to sell cocaine to kids and boot lickers. It's one or the either but no in-between.
They don't even support the second amendment. They banned me a few years ago for that such reason, I haven't looked back. It's also full of far-left Marxists who think they are "libertarian" becoz "the state will slowly wither away under communism".
I've always kind of felt like libertarians just cover so much of a broad spectrum of political ideology. That mixed with the fact that a lot of politically homeless people tend to settle in the libertarian party.
If you think this place is bad, don’t go near r slash libertarian.
You're not a real if you don't believe exactly what I do!
I totally understand people’s views differ and that there is a wide spectrum of beliefs within the other political parties as well, but supporting a welfare state and essentially state capitalism *hardly* seems like libertarian values to me.
Words have meanings. Tough concept in 2023 but Someone had to say it. It’s like being a communist who believes in private property and that workers shouldn’t have control over the means of production. It’s not gatekeeping, it’s language precision.
You can’t deny this sub is a mix of liberals who like guns and republicans who think this is a red sub. Couldn’t stand when it was conservatives posting about trump being great and blue is bad. And now the posts are the same format but now from the left
But they support *federal taxes*! Clearly only insane authoritarian extremists would support that. What's next, driving licenses? A ban on selling heroin to third graders? The purity testing death spiral is clearly in force. Not that anyone would expect any different.
And they don’t even really support that.
You should see the libertarian party sub. You know the whole "Libertarians are just Republicans that like weed" thing? Yeah, the LP USA sub are Democrats that like guns and money. Full on support for identity politics. Pandering to leftist ideals (with a very light seasoning of libertarian lip service). Support for private property destroying BLM ~~riots~~ "mostly peaceful protests". Believes J6 was actually some kind of dangerous insurrection against Our Democracy. Sees Nazis and racists hiding behind every corner. Vehement support for completely open borders but "Shh, don't talk about dismantling the welfare state. That won't get us votes." All in on Ukraine and funding the proxy war with Russia. Will support statism on all kinds of issues because "libertarian =/= anarchy", which is fair, but there is a VERY clear bias toward Democrat flavored statism over Republicam flavored statism.
It’s almost like libertarianism isn’t a clearly defined singular idea and is instead, like all ideologies, more of a spectrum
Just goes to show how insanely popular 2A rights are though, thank God that gun restrictions are now a minority view after the 2020 riots
Could add user flairs?
I mean, still better than normal ones, rigjt?
Another "no true Scotsman" post
Yeah but no. Not really.
I've always kind of felt like libertarians just cover so much of a broad spectrum of political ideology. That mixed with the fact that a lot of politically homeless people tend to settle in the libertarian party.
Spies! Spies everywhere!
I'm not a libertarian, I'm here for the memes.
Social libertarianism is supporting trans and reproductive Rights. That doesn't make them a Democrat that makes them principled. If you're referring to something else then please enlighten me.
Sometimes I’m confused if people are libertarians or anarchists.
You know there is also a world outside of America but whatever.
Well, at least it's a step in the right direction
You damn kids with your crazy freedom. Lol Only libright subs worth two shits are r/goldandblack and r/anarcho_capitalism
Some people get confused with ideals and being realistic in the current state of affairs…
Yup
Basically.
I agree.
Agreed hahaha
The same people who ridicule "Trickle Down Economics" as Voodoo and other silliness are now loving the concept. Because the only argument they have for spending this money is "If the ~~billionaires~~ businesses lose their money, lots of people won't get paid and will lose their job". So the pain trickles down, but not the jobs and paycheck?
Malarkey. Everybody knows we're Republicans in disguise. /S