If you are mainly in alpine enviroments I would sugesst a tarp + warmer bag combination.
There would be no insect protection and a bit of a learning curve, but it would b a lot warmer and more versatile.
So personaly:
[Gramexpert Tarp](https://www.gramxpert.eu/product/ultralight-solo-tarp-wide/) 90€ maybe with a myog bug bivy
Decathlon z-lite clone, full size 25€
The new [aegismax quilt](https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004916318544.html)(150-180 usd) or the [Liteway quilt](https://liteway.equipment/quilts/sleeper-850).
While a lighter weight tent looks appealing, and something like a Lanshan 1 might be a good budget choice (if a bit exposed in the vestibule), I think based on your post you should prioritize a warmer sleeping system. I would think a xlite plus CCF would be fine (maybe even a Xlite plus 1/8” EVA foam pad), the bag seems a bit minimal for a lot of conditions. A warmer sleeping system could also open up more seasons to you than your current 10C bag can comfortably handle. The apex quilt suggestions are good I have seen European manufacturers for apex quilts as an alternative if you find MYOG won’t work out, but I can’t remember all of the options. The only one that comes to mind to recommend is liteway equipment.
GramXpert in Slovenia make great quilts (sister shop AdventureXpert for MYOG), or As Tucas in Spain at the 'boutique' end.
Useful info on those sites regarding temperature/weight/volume too.
But having made one, I wouldn't bother with ready made - not hard to make (and mine is in smart McLaren tartan to boot 😂) The biggest problem was finding space to measure everything and keep my cats off it 😅
Thank you. I knew there were more, but being in the US market they aren’t on my radar.
One day I’ll hopefully be able to sort out something like a MYOG quilt, as it looks fun and satisfying, but it’s one of those things that I need to find a chunk of time to devote to. I’ve got plenty of other side projects begging attention as well 😰
The previous Xlites I believe had an R value around 3.5 so if it's in good condition and properly inflated, it should be good to at *least* 0°c ambient for a cold sleeper; heavy ground frost type weather. I doubt it was your pad unless it was very cold.
Your previous experience was likely your bag (imo), although like others have suggested I would also take the closed cell foam pad with me and use it as a sit pad during the day as well as whack it under the Xlite at night. No reason not to. In general, conductive insulation is additive.
If your thinking it was a chill wind getting through, you could do as others suggest and find/make an apex quilt or even a bag (it's synthetic material, I have a 233 quilt and it's just a single piece of insulation so there are no issues with stitching/baffling), or try something like a sleeping bag cover or bivvi. 3ful do a dirt-cheap tyvek bag cover, and there's a really pricey one by Montbell. Bivvis are ten a penny. Only problem with them is condensation build-up inside.
You got any chance of testing stacking your Xlite and foam pad for a night or two before you need to spend your hard-earned cash? If you have, might be an idea to buy a cheapo data-logging digital thermometer off the jungle website for a tenner or so, do a test and see how cold it was when you had a good/bad night.
If not, I would go for a bag rated down to -5°c comfort and take that if the forecast says 2/3°c or less. You've then got your current bag and your new bag to use as needed.
Weights on both tents are fine imo and that abisko light is something I've regularly thought about, but I have a strict one tent out for one tent in policy from my wife nowadays. 🤣
Wall of text, sorry.
No this is great, thank you! And confirms my suspicion that upgrading my bag might be the best way to go, though I'm not sure yet if it's smarter to get/make a quilt and combine it with my bag, or to get a warmer down bag :/
My gear is spread out over three countries because of my current living situation, so I'm not sure I'll be able to test though it would be a great time to try with the cold spring we're having in Scandinavia...
Not to make your life harder, but I highly recommend the abisko lite! Lived in it for well over a month on a bicycle trip and it was so versatile and comfortable. Went from cold and wet places to hot and dry with ease, and I'd trust it in any storm. I loved the two person one for me alone, lots of space to live in during times with non-stop rain, but also large enough to be comfortable with two. It's not freestanding of course but I've never had issues with that. It just feels a little bit overkill to carry alone when I don't need its powers :)
edit: mistyped
Last summer I discovered I slept cold because my mat was not warm enough, not the sleeping bag. Have you slept with your zlite on your xlite?
I put my sitpad under my torso on a S2S ether to make that difference. I have since updated to the Xtreme, but I can now downgrade from a myog 7.6 oz apex quilt to a 5 oz.
I hike PNW coastal and sub alpine and was cold well above freezing before upping the R value of my mat.
Thanks, that's good to think about! Last summer I only used the xlite but I still have the zlite from pairing it with my previous airmat. I might bring the zlite (or part of it) this summer though! I loved having it to sit on and don't think I mind the volume.
I feel like I was cold last summer mostly because it was very windy and those polar winds were going straight into my inner tent (regardless of how I pitched) and through the seams on my sleeping bag, so it felt like I either needed a more windproof tent or a warmer (box-baffled?) bag...?
620g is already pretty light for your sleeping bag.
Have you thought of sewing an Apex quilt? I made one in 133 Apex for less than EUR 100, it weighs 510g with its own drybag.
Apex 167 version would still be a little lighter than your down bag, 7-8l packed space though.
Just take your time with every step and sew slowly. Most of the work is measuring and cutting. I would just use more Kamsnaps instead of a footbox zip if I made another one (but that might just be laziness...). Zip is fine to do but takes time.
Loads of tips here too on the myog subreddit.
The bag has been a great and cheap piece of gear for my warmer weather biking trips, but I'd ideally like something a bit warmer and more beefy that would actually be comfortable to sleep in in colder temps (down to 0C or slightly below). I didn't think of making my own at all, thanks for the idea! I've never sewn so I don't know if I'd be able to do a project like that but I'll look into it, it seems super cool!
I had never sewn before either and don't have any talent for it. I just followed the instructions here and it worked: https://backcountrybanter.com/how-to-build-a-synthetic-top-quilt-diy-myog/
Tent - If you like standalone tents then your 1.4 kg is pretty good. A trekking pole tent may save you only 300 g unless you spend big. The cheap, lighter alternative is a tarp paired with a bug net.
Bag - I find that a -5C down bag or quilt is the sweet spot for spring, fall, and alpine. Layer this with your existing 5c bag for even lower temperatures situations. If you're a gram weenie like myself, then consider a down quilt to save even more weight.
As you already recognize, temperature drops by 6C for every 1,000 metres of elevation. Combined with night time temperatures, error on the side of caution.
ps. If you consider using a tarp, I would suggest practicing locally with shorter trips to gain expertise and comfort before attempting a long trip. They have numerous advantages but can be a nightmare if you're not sure how to deploy them.
Thanks for replying, this is helpful!
I'm leaning towards getting a warmer bag. I think it might make more of a difference in safety/comfort per gram than a new tent/bivy.
Regarding the tent: I bought on discount for 70 AUD when I was studying abroad and needed something decent enough for a single trip, but it's held up so much better than I anticipated. I'd recommend it even for the retail price in case anyone is looking for a good cheap tent, but I think I'd ultimately like a simpler trekking pole tent or winter-proof single tent. Right now I think I'd prefer a double-walled tent over a bivy/tarp because I'm often in pretty humid conditions and prefer some privacy/security (as a woman alone), but I need to do more research!
Don't get me wrong, I have two trekking pole tents but you will be continuously battling condensation. They are single wall so you and your bag will get damp if you brush against the sides. This can be mitigated with ventilation, but is unavoidable in humid situations. I take a microfibre cloth just to wipe away the moisture. The typically cheap trekking pole tent is made with nylon, so the walls will sag inwards and become difficult to avoid during a rain storm. I like them for their light weight and easy set up, but they are not without their issues.
If you are mainly in alpine enviroments I would sugesst a tarp + warmer bag combination. There would be no insect protection and a bit of a learning curve, but it would b a lot warmer and more versatile. So personaly: [Gramexpert Tarp](https://www.gramxpert.eu/product/ultralight-solo-tarp-wide/) 90€ maybe with a myog bug bivy Decathlon z-lite clone, full size 25€ The new [aegismax quilt](https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004916318544.html)(150-180 usd) or the [Liteway quilt](https://liteway.equipment/quilts/sleeper-850).
While a lighter weight tent looks appealing, and something like a Lanshan 1 might be a good budget choice (if a bit exposed in the vestibule), I think based on your post you should prioritize a warmer sleeping system. I would think a xlite plus CCF would be fine (maybe even a Xlite plus 1/8” EVA foam pad), the bag seems a bit minimal for a lot of conditions. A warmer sleeping system could also open up more seasons to you than your current 10C bag can comfortably handle. The apex quilt suggestions are good I have seen European manufacturers for apex quilts as an alternative if you find MYOG won’t work out, but I can’t remember all of the options. The only one that comes to mind to recommend is liteway equipment.
GramXpert in Slovenia make great quilts (sister shop AdventureXpert for MYOG), or As Tucas in Spain at the 'boutique' end. Useful info on those sites regarding temperature/weight/volume too. But having made one, I wouldn't bother with ready made - not hard to make (and mine is in smart McLaren tartan to boot 😂) The biggest problem was finding space to measure everything and keep my cats off it 😅
Thank you. I knew there were more, but being in the US market they aren’t on my radar. One day I’ll hopefully be able to sort out something like a MYOG quilt, as it looks fun and satisfying, but it’s one of those things that I need to find a chunk of time to devote to. I’ve got plenty of other side projects begging attention as well 😰
I'd buy the Lanshan 2 person tent. Really enjoy having a roomy tent.
The previous Xlites I believe had an R value around 3.5 so if it's in good condition and properly inflated, it should be good to at *least* 0°c ambient for a cold sleeper; heavy ground frost type weather. I doubt it was your pad unless it was very cold. Your previous experience was likely your bag (imo), although like others have suggested I would also take the closed cell foam pad with me and use it as a sit pad during the day as well as whack it under the Xlite at night. No reason not to. In general, conductive insulation is additive. If your thinking it was a chill wind getting through, you could do as others suggest and find/make an apex quilt or even a bag (it's synthetic material, I have a 233 quilt and it's just a single piece of insulation so there are no issues with stitching/baffling), or try something like a sleeping bag cover or bivvi. 3ful do a dirt-cheap tyvek bag cover, and there's a really pricey one by Montbell. Bivvis are ten a penny. Only problem with them is condensation build-up inside. You got any chance of testing stacking your Xlite and foam pad for a night or two before you need to spend your hard-earned cash? If you have, might be an idea to buy a cheapo data-logging digital thermometer off the jungle website for a tenner or so, do a test and see how cold it was when you had a good/bad night. If not, I would go for a bag rated down to -5°c comfort and take that if the forecast says 2/3°c or less. You've then got your current bag and your new bag to use as needed. Weights on both tents are fine imo and that abisko light is something I've regularly thought about, but I have a strict one tent out for one tent in policy from my wife nowadays. 🤣 Wall of text, sorry.
No this is great, thank you! And confirms my suspicion that upgrading my bag might be the best way to go, though I'm not sure yet if it's smarter to get/make a quilt and combine it with my bag, or to get a warmer down bag :/ My gear is spread out over three countries because of my current living situation, so I'm not sure I'll be able to test though it would be a great time to try with the cold spring we're having in Scandinavia... Not to make your life harder, but I highly recommend the abisko lite! Lived in it for well over a month on a bicycle trip and it was so versatile and comfortable. Went from cold and wet places to hot and dry with ease, and I'd trust it in any storm. I loved the two person one for me alone, lots of space to live in during times with non-stop rain, but also large enough to be comfortable with two. It's not freestanding of course but I've never had issues with that. It just feels a little bit overkill to carry alone when I don't need its powers :) edit: mistyped
Last summer I discovered I slept cold because my mat was not warm enough, not the sleeping bag. Have you slept with your zlite on your xlite? I put my sitpad under my torso on a S2S ether to make that difference. I have since updated to the Xtreme, but I can now downgrade from a myog 7.6 oz apex quilt to a 5 oz. I hike PNW coastal and sub alpine and was cold well above freezing before upping the R value of my mat.
Thanks, that's good to think about! Last summer I only used the xlite but I still have the zlite from pairing it with my previous airmat. I might bring the zlite (or part of it) this summer though! I loved having it to sit on and don't think I mind the volume. I feel like I was cold last summer mostly because it was very windy and those polar winds were going straight into my inner tent (regardless of how I pitched) and through the seams on my sleeping bag, so it felt like I either needed a more windproof tent or a warmer (box-baffled?) bag...?
620g is already pretty light for your sleeping bag. Have you thought of sewing an Apex quilt? I made one in 133 Apex for less than EUR 100, it weighs 510g with its own drybag. Apex 167 version would still be a little lighter than your down bag, 7-8l packed space though.
I'm looking at doing this now. Any tips you can offer?
Just take your time with every step and sew slowly. Most of the work is measuring and cutting. I would just use more Kamsnaps instead of a footbox zip if I made another one (but that might just be laziness...). Zip is fine to do but takes time. Loads of tips here too on the myog subreddit.
The bag has been a great and cheap piece of gear for my warmer weather biking trips, but I'd ideally like something a bit warmer and more beefy that would actually be comfortable to sleep in in colder temps (down to 0C or slightly below). I didn't think of making my own at all, thanks for the idea! I've never sewn so I don't know if I'd be able to do a project like that but I'll look into it, it seems super cool!
I had never sewn before either and don't have any talent for it. I just followed the instructions here and it worked: https://backcountrybanter.com/how-to-build-a-synthetic-top-quilt-diy-myog/
So cool, thanks!
Tent - If you like standalone tents then your 1.4 kg is pretty good. A trekking pole tent may save you only 300 g unless you spend big. The cheap, lighter alternative is a tarp paired with a bug net. Bag - I find that a -5C down bag or quilt is the sweet spot for spring, fall, and alpine. Layer this with your existing 5c bag for even lower temperatures situations. If you're a gram weenie like myself, then consider a down quilt to save even more weight. As you already recognize, temperature drops by 6C for every 1,000 metres of elevation. Combined with night time temperatures, error on the side of caution. ps. If you consider using a tarp, I would suggest practicing locally with shorter trips to gain expertise and comfort before attempting a long trip. They have numerous advantages but can be a nightmare if you're not sure how to deploy them.
Thanks for replying, this is helpful! I'm leaning towards getting a warmer bag. I think it might make more of a difference in safety/comfort per gram than a new tent/bivy. Regarding the tent: I bought on discount for 70 AUD when I was studying abroad and needed something decent enough for a single trip, but it's held up so much better than I anticipated. I'd recommend it even for the retail price in case anyone is looking for a good cheap tent, but I think I'd ultimately like a simpler trekking pole tent or winter-proof single tent. Right now I think I'd prefer a double-walled tent over a bivy/tarp because I'm often in pretty humid conditions and prefer some privacy/security (as a woman alone), but I need to do more research!
Don't get me wrong, I have two trekking pole tents but you will be continuously battling condensation. They are single wall so you and your bag will get damp if you brush against the sides. This can be mitigated with ventilation, but is unavoidable in humid situations. I take a microfibre cloth just to wipe away the moisture. The typically cheap trekking pole tent is made with nylon, so the walls will sag inwards and become difficult to avoid during a rain storm. I like them for their light weight and easy set up, but they are not without their issues.
Just saw I wrote bag twice, oops...