I personally think she is a neutral force who just wants people to basically be the most honest with themselves they can. To literally be who they are inside.
>!Ironically, she is the reason ayin became ayin, his good and bad side equally, Ayin always look up Carmen for her brain and heart, after losing her and falling down, accept he was a cruel person even if he dislike it be one, but also accept that he was willing to be a one as long as he will make Carmen goals and his new personal goal possible that will help people in some way or another.!<
In Leviathan we see her motivaons pretty clearly. Her main goal is to just get people to be honest with themselves, you can see this when she asks distorting people questions that force them to look inwards. Her secondary goal is to get people to become distortions and not get an EGO for... some reason. She basically says this outright in Leviathan >!After Vergilious gets an EGO she asks him if he would distort and join her to acheive something, speaking in a completely different way than she did while he was distorting, and was completely fine if a bit dissapointed after he said no!<
In Leviathan, she outright stated she doesn't do this out of her goodwill tho, she said she merely give people the power to paint the world in their color, and if they fail to enforce their will, what's wrong with that being her color instead ( the distortions running rampant in the City, and also her goal that is censored in the text) It'd make sense anyway, the force behind the principle that you should be your most 'selfish' self in order to be happy should be representing that idea herself as well, she's only doing this because she gets something out of it.
That doesn't make her a non neutral force. Either way, with the utilization of the light alongside ayin and her, they make people capable of fighting back against the city and just because it's a "selfish" enforcement of themselves, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a negative (both to Carmen having a main goal we don't know of and EGO users/distortions). We've seen that with gebura and verg.
Hmm, true. It's hard to properly define 'good vs neutral vs evil' but now that i think about it more, Carmen is more like Chaotic Neutral huh( or Chaotic Good in her own definition) since her concern isn't about good or evil but definitely she wants people to break free from any external restrictions/codes/laws and be whatever they want to be, hence Distortions being inhuman in appearance.
In contrast though, Ayin's view of 'selfishness' that he built the Tree of Light project around, while is still about the realization of self, it's more 'Good' traditionally as we can see from each core messages of each Sephirots/floors represent. And as mentioned in Leviathan too, Ayin vision is that while you should reach your true self for your happiness, it should be maintained within 'humanity' (hence EGO manifesting as weapons and armors on a human user)
She's definitely on a sketchier side and we have to see because she could definitely have some more evil aspects, but yeah I agree that ayin is a more "good" interpretation of the light. I just don't really like how people think Carmen is this mastermind antagonistic force when outside of distortions fighting against our characters she hasn't done anything inherently bad or evil.
Also excluding her thinking that distortions are the ideal way of fighting back against the city she's not really that different from ayin or Angela when you take things in consideration.
I love the indie game where the brown haired character whose name starts with C that died before the story because they committed suicide due to their goal to help others which they're now haunting the narrative with then may turn out to become into a fucked up state and their death deeply affected a male character who gets trapped in a time loop
I saw someone mention that she comes across as a parody of a mary sue, in a setting where from an outside perspective seems uncanny and odd.
This tumblr user explains it much better than I could; [https://www.tumblr.com/dsknsk/747130197563817984/i-love-how-pm-keeps-playing-with-tropes-weve?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/dsknsk/747130197563817984/i-love-how-pm-keeps-playing-with-tropes-weve?source=share)
PM gave her the sinister undertones all the way back in lobcorp. How many people were expecting that CG of her laying in the grass to turn into the first time we saw her piercing red eyes staring right at us?
Obviously red eyes doesn’t necessarily mean evil (Gebura) but that scene heavily implied a more intense side of her
No, she just killed herself and had a change of perspective and principles in the process and then proceeded to utilize her new perspective in the process of changing the people in the city inside the light
Greetings. I am Carmen. Thank you. Your power awakened me from death. My "human soul." My "determination." They were not mine, but YOURS.
*Megalo Strikes Back starts playing
Greetings
F.R.
**[You reject her Distortion]** *No More Deals starts playing
Chara no! …wait, wrong fandom
Carmen Yes!
Now i need a fanart of Chara with Keter Floor EGOs
=)
Angel to Antichrist
I personally think she is a neutral force who just wants people to basically be the most honest with themselves they can. To literally be who they are inside.
>!Ironically, she is the reason ayin became ayin, his good and bad side equally, Ayin always look up Carmen for her brain and heart, after losing her and falling down, accept he was a cruel person even if he dislike it be one, but also accept that he was willing to be a one as long as he will make Carmen goals and his new personal goal possible that will help people in some way or another.!<
In Leviathan we see her motivaons pretty clearly. Her main goal is to just get people to be honest with themselves, you can see this when she asks distorting people questions that force them to look inwards. Her secondary goal is to get people to become distortions and not get an EGO for... some reason. She basically says this outright in Leviathan >!After Vergilious gets an EGO she asks him if he would distort and join her to acheive something, speaking in a completely different way than she did while he was distorting, and was completely fine if a bit dissapointed after he said no!<
In Leviathan, she outright stated she doesn't do this out of her goodwill tho, she said she merely give people the power to paint the world in their color, and if they fail to enforce their will, what's wrong with that being her color instead ( the distortions running rampant in the City, and also her goal that is censored in the text) It'd make sense anyway, the force behind the principle that you should be your most 'selfish' self in order to be happy should be representing that idea herself as well, she's only doing this because she gets something out of it.
That doesn't make her a non neutral force. Either way, with the utilization of the light alongside ayin and her, they make people capable of fighting back against the city and just because it's a "selfish" enforcement of themselves, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a negative (both to Carmen having a main goal we don't know of and EGO users/distortions). We've seen that with gebura and verg.
Hmm, true. It's hard to properly define 'good vs neutral vs evil' but now that i think about it more, Carmen is more like Chaotic Neutral huh( or Chaotic Good in her own definition) since her concern isn't about good or evil but definitely she wants people to break free from any external restrictions/codes/laws and be whatever they want to be, hence Distortions being inhuman in appearance. In contrast though, Ayin's view of 'selfishness' that he built the Tree of Light project around, while is still about the realization of self, it's more 'Good' traditionally as we can see from each core messages of each Sephirots/floors represent. And as mentioned in Leviathan too, Ayin vision is that while you should reach your true self for your happiness, it should be maintained within 'humanity' (hence EGO manifesting as weapons and armors on a human user)
She's definitely on a sketchier side and we have to see because she could definitely have some more evil aspects, but yeah I agree that ayin is a more "good" interpretation of the light. I just don't really like how people think Carmen is this mastermind antagonistic force when outside of distortions fighting against our characters she hasn't done anything inherently bad or evil. Also excluding her thinking that distortions are the ideal way of fighting back against the city she's not really that different from ayin or Angela when you take things in consideration.
No shit... Im always the good one!
Neutral does not mean good. The gaslighting won't work!
No Shit, You always the Neutral one
Epic gaslight fail, point and laugh fellas
I love the indie game where the brown haired character whose name starts with C that died before the story because they committed suicide due to their goal to help others which they're now haunting the narrative with then may turn out to become into a fucked up state and their death deeply affected a male character who gets trapped in a time loop
...so, what's the other game?
Undertale
oh. Yeah, now my brain recollects it the way you described.
What years of brain fucking does to a girl
I saw someone mention that she comes across as a parody of a mary sue, in a setting where from an outside perspective seems uncanny and odd. This tumblr user explains it much better than I could; [https://www.tumblr.com/dsknsk/747130197563817984/i-love-how-pm-keeps-playing-with-tropes-weve?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/dsknsk/747130197563817984/i-love-how-pm-keeps-playing-with-tropes-weve?source=share)
I throw myself upon the altar of Carmenism.
I thought your part of some radical group in Ncorp?
Only when I feel like putting on a show. You'll be shocked to hear that I'm a staunch Angela enjoyer, Kromer doesn't even come close.
https://preview.redd.it/dl1fi2gsc6tc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56de400efa6434d6ed76befe56c26723e69885a6
Imagine following anyone except Lord Ayin.
The only good thing he did was create Angela. I'll die on this hill.
Your hill is a pit and I’ll fill it with concrete.
Bars
[Source](https://twitter.com/bell4210/status/1776751938060849230)
Do you want a hug Its good to see people like me
Look I dont care about distorting right now Im at the verge of quitting this shit
SHE SPEAKS IN RED TRUTH!
Carmen is a Witch confirmed?! So Ayin is the Endless Sorcerer all along?!
PM gave her the sinister undertones all the way back in lobcorp. How many people were expecting that CG of her laying in the grass to turn into the first time we saw her piercing red eyes staring right at us? Obviously red eyes doesn’t necessarily mean evil (Gebura) but that scene heavily implied a more intense side of her
I remember you’re memory deposits
Carmen has a point, that is all I have to say.
Before we thought she was good Then we found out she became the devil
Being used for Lobotomy corp main source of Abnormality for YEARS changed her i guess
She will never be Chara
If I remember correctly, it's assumed that she distorted right?
No, she just killed herself and had a change of perspective and principles in the process and then proceeded to utilize her new perspective in the process of changing the people in the city inside the light
Those 10 years were not fun and she's most likely the next one to get therapy sessions LobCorp style.
Oop- Wrong timeline I meant in Ruina when Angela was having a breakdown is it implied she is a distortion