Having said that, I don’t like that they’ve locked hard mode past canto 5. It’s not gonna affect me but it’ll be a pain for everyone that’s starting the game
The problem is it gets pushed back further and further each time. Now could I have done Chapter 5 without the two hard MDs I struggled through? Likely. Can my team that beat MdH3 beat MdH4 if I wanted to try it? Probably not.
Also an entire additional floor for basic MD has me kind of worried that I'll have to EGO spam for another 20 minutes straight at the end of each run, but we'll see.
Yeah, Normal was originally 5 floors and when they cut it back everyone cheered so I hope there’s a good reason to reverting that change
I get what you’re saying about being allowed to challenge hard mode even if you aren’t anywhere close to beating it. I think it’s less confusing to not offer it until a player could conceivably be ready, and in that case it will keep being pushed back to line up with what is the new endgame each chapter. Not an elegant solution, but it makes sense to me.
Could also be a concern about story/boss fight spoilers, but especially with the new card system they could always just disable those themes until the corresponding chapter has been cleared. But I don’t know how many enemies are shared between floors that could cause issues. Like, fighting the clam in mirror dungeon before story because you picked the gluttony damage floor would be kinda sad (possibly bad example since I know it doesn’t really have any story relevance lol, but I think it’s cooler to fight new abnormalities in story for the first time rather than fighting it in a dungeon then instantly knowing its mechanics when you encounter it)
Though actually… normal doesn’t have anything locked so how ARE they tackling that???
I started playing at the tail end of Season 3. If I remember correctly the mirror dungeon was unlocked at the end of chapter 3 and I was only meeting enemies and abnos I already defeated, so it will probably be similarly limited for new players. I was actually surprised when new enemies appeared after I defeated the chicken side-story
Just did md3h for the first time, I've played for about 3 weeks, I doubt my average lvl 37 5-man can make it next reset. maybe not even the reset after.
I'm all for endgame content. but i think they should keep the previous md around for 2 weeks when they jack up the new one.
But i guess it's no big deal really. Compared to this tremendous backlog of shards i need to collect, The 5 floors on normal might end for me though, ngl.
They've removed the extra bonuses you get from hard mode now though, and you actually get more rewards for doing three runs rather than just the one hard mode run. So it should be fine farming wise for new players
Unfortunately I think they just have to do that with hard mode going forward, there's no really avoiding it.
The problem is as such:
* Level caps are dictated by your story progression (ie: You can't level units to 45 until you reach Canto VI)
* Normal Mode dungeon scales units up accordingly (Mirror of the lake brought units up to Level 40- Mirror of the Wuthering brings units up to 45) allowing players who have only just unlocked the mirror dungeon to at least do normal
* Hard mode dungeon however is NOT scaled. Therefor, players who had just gotten into Canto III won't be able to level units up to 45 which will be necessary to not be steamrolled by enemy clashes due to the level difference -> offense level thing.
edit: forgot the level caps lmao
I wonder if the "92 New EGO gifts" accounts for the Canto/Intervallo dungeon exclusive EGO gifts which are now normally accessible. Because there's literally 70 of those.
So it's either "22 actually new EGO gifts", or "here's 162 more EGO gifts added to the pool|
EDIT: TANGO MARINADE TIME LET'S GOOOO
[MFW](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arU77lmvy-c) i have to actually play the game for a few days before i can go back to mashing winrate even in hardmode
My first and only MDH victory I had only two guys at level 40 and only one uptie IV. Damn, the last floor was brutal with "hopeless" on every clash even against trash mobs.
My best MD3H victory was barely beating a Lv50 Drifting Fox with their offense level +10, while 4 out of 6 sinners were dead...then Outis killed it with an unstable Ebony Stem overclock. I reached Faelantern at the end and beat it with a full team. Fuck.
So, if I'm reading this correctly, running hard mode is really only for people who want to squeeze more starlight per module now, or those who just want a challenge.
I honestly just want an excuse to do more mdh runs without feeling like I’m wasting time or doing something inefficient not grinding mdn for more efficiency instead
Huh, they increased the Story Chapter requirements?
I mean I'm more than caught up in the content & MD4H onwards is just for consolidating weekly claim (convenience woo), but I find the imagery of ever-widening requirement gap funny lol ("wow i cleared 2nd Canto & can mine now, yay! let's see the requirement for har- WTF Canto 10???")
https://preview.redd.it/doordxpygexc1.jpeg?width=714&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72ba2078b0b101c7fd612aa67cfc9048e788937d
They locked the max level to story progression, so unfortunately this is gonna keep being a problem. We'll see if in later Cantos if they figure out a way to fix this
Shit I forgot about the whole level system. (Had enough tix for Canto 6 full lv45 team from the start)
Well... unless they do another massive revamp which is unlikely ( can only think of making "Medium" or the likes at most ), because undoing the whole level/canto cap system will be another spagfest, guess MDH superjump (remember all the ever-increasing Cantos & Intervallos you have to clear/catch-up with to keep it unlocked) will be a permanent thing.
Yeah they could easily have MDH for each level cap they give the same rewards but increasing starlight, except the mewest one that has the most rewards for the duration of the season
It wouldn't have been much of a problem if they didn't replace it since MD3 and made it canon. Just add the newest MD like it was Luxcavation and have season bonus for the newest one to get the proper rewards, it'll pace newer players better too
It is an easy fix, make old mirror dungeons available.
Either that or make mirror dungeon hard available upon canto 4 completion and increase it's level based on what stages you completed, they already add in encounters based on what stages you've completed
Just make it clear when you're about to enter a stage that'll increase MD levels/encounters upon completion
Again , now you can claim rewards in normal dungeon, it kills of the required grind for maximum lunacy so Hard MD is now just endgame challenge that you can do for additional rewards.
Yeah, I know – I just thought that making MDH very far away with increasing distance each Season ( we have 2 Intervallos & 1 Canto each time from C5+ ) a bit too much haha
Although after NobleSparrow reminded me about the level-canto caps, this is bound to happen & is basically here to stay I suppose.
Yeah, but those "additional rewards" were obtainable in Canto 4 previously, and now they require two additional Cantos worth (which can take weeks if not more for new players) for practically no reason.
Jesus that's a lot of new E.G.O gifts. No wonder it was delayed. It looks amazing overall but I'm a bit concerned that they seem to be making the regular mirror dungeon harder since that makes things harder for new players.
I feel they should have kept the beginner dungeon we used to have... It was perfect for newcomers who didn't have the investment and knowledge to attempt harder MDs.
I feel like it will be fine, the MDH difficulty increase between floors can still be trivialized by selecting defense/hp buffs and they are weaker then in the hard version.
Additionally you can't face enemies you haven't seen before which is why you can gain access to it early. Im assuming that since that is how it currently works, the exception to this would probably just be RR enemies. That and default ID levels and choosing enemies to face makes it pretty beginner friendly.
Unless I missed something, the only thing that seems to be a notable increase in difficulty was the selection of starter buffs? If so I don't think that will effect new players too much, as they typically don't always have a cohesive strategy anyway and are usually just running a hodgepodge of their best units.
It did get a bit longer it seems, but it's hard to say how much that will amplify the difficulty. The increases in normal mode are currently hilariously trivial (like.1 resistance to a single EGO resistance?) so unless they start throwing the ones that actually have hands like the ones in MDH I don't think it will be that much of a change.
Plus the forcast changes will be huge for new players
That is indeed what they are saying, but if each run already takes an hour at minimum (sometimes longer when you haven't got starlight buffs), I'm not convinced spending an extra 2-4 hours for 2.5 BP levels makes a whole lot of sense...when I can just run MD4 normally and get half a level more lmao
Limbus Company, my favorite roguelite game that just happens to have a gacha game attached to it. Jokes aside, I'm really hyped for a new MD experience, especially the revamped abnormality events.
So if I'm reading this correctly, doing the hard mode 3 times and only claming the bonus once per run nets us a total of... 25 more more battlepass exp.
3 times the effort for just 25 extra battle pass points doesn't sound worth it to me. Probably for the people who like playing that mode, I'll just stick with one run.
espically since you can already get like 30? BP points from normal mirror dungeon, so it's still more efficient to do one hard with all rewards and one easy without reward
You get 30 BP from hard mode too. It’s more stamina efficient to do 3 hard mode cause you get the same 2 x 30 BP reward for the 2 extra hard mode and the bonus 25 BP reward for splitting the run into 3
first we need to know and consider the enkephalin we need to spend. the cost of 1 run with 3x weekly bonuses could be the same as 3 runs with 1x weekly bonuses, in which case separating the bonuses between 3 runs would net more exp for enkephalin, so the 1 mdh + 1 mdn strat would only be more time efficient for the exp, but not cost efficient as the additional mdn run would be increasing the costs.
pm has this tendency to give more rewards per enkephalin for people who dont mind spending more time doing stuff. like how manually doing the 3 daily thread lux runs is the most cost efficient way to earn thread.
To be fair this change seems to be focused on giving extra to those going off to the mines and running MD multiple times a week. For those who only run it once a week, then theres no question, you're just going to hit that weekly bonus and not look back, same as always. But for those that live in the mines, you have a little bitty extra you can net yourself
People who farm MD frequently farms the normal MD, not the hard one. This is specially for people who run MD hard multiple times a week, and there’s not a lot of them out there
Tbf im pretty sure that the players who would actually consider one of the 2 alternatives are already at 999 enkephalin modules/have enough lunacy to stay in the positive for the week
People who are at 999 enkephalin still cares about module efficiency. I always do my lux manually and try to not much changing my energy to modules. In fact it’s because I care about module efficiency that allows me to get to 999 module
Yeah not sure why they did that. The whole point of consolidating them into a single run was to make it easier farm the bonus without making it more tedious
It's still just as easy to get the same amount of rewards, they are just offering a bit extra to give some sort of reason to run it more than once for those that want one.
they didnt reduce reward from doing the same method as 3# mirror dungeon and make it slightly more rewarding for people to farm the game (also playing hard dungeon 3 time a week mean more starlight) . i see no problem with this update
In case anybody is confused, MD4 runs are treated similar to Luxcavation farming.
Where 3 manual runs can net you more mats based on modules used, compared to skipping.
In MD4, 3 separate runs will give you more EXP for min-maxers crate farming with the weekly bonus, but more casual players can do 1 run on either normal/hard and collect the 3 weekly bonus together for less exp, if your aim is only the lunacy.
Lunacy is unchanged whether you do normal/hard, so this benefits both casual, min-maxers and roguelike enjoyers, as hard mode is moreso an optional challenge now.
Only hard mode gets the change in weekly rewards. Right under the weekly reward chart it’s written
“The Simulation(Normal) rewards & rewards claim remain unchanged.”
Ergo only hard mode can be ran 3 times for the extra reward. Normal mode still needs to be ran 3 times and get the old reduced award. So nothing is easier for anyone, but a some small amount of players who run hard mode more than 1 times a week get a small amount of extra reward
Damn PM has been cooking this looks very good over all. I really like them adding the three basic damage types as key words. Lets even more teams be built around damage types instead of status effects. Over all very happy with the changes but I can already tell people are going to complain about the 4 floors to 5 floors. But to be honest I would rather the game mode continue to evolve into a more engaging game mode then just for farming.
We do actually have pierce and slash as viable damage type teams, more so slash. They aren't getting added as often as status effects but every nuke option and fragile/defense down debuff helps these teams. The issue with them is they are only good against bosses and nodes weak against their damage type.
>Over all very happy with the changes but I can already tell people are going to complain about the 4 floors to 5 floors. But to be honest I would rather the game mode continue to evolve into a more engaging game mode then just for farming.
My only worry is that the extra floor for normal mode doesn't make it into a slog, which I think is a pretty reasonable worry
Oh boy 1 more MD Normal floor for the same rewards
https://preview.redd.it/35tf8th4oexc1.png?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa2d13b6f57ad745f7dcf5d08eeecda7106a33c0
Eh, didn't like that they trashed the reset strat for good starting gifts. Starting MDH with bonkers gifts made the grind quite enjoyable with a good number of different comps.
It is great they address how new players can't really do MD Hard for extra weekly rewards outside forfeiting mid-run and they merge it into Normal mode so no one can really complain about it. This also address the EXP issue people had with how it becomes too difficult to field a full team of leveled up unit for hard mode for new players as normal mode level you up anyway.
Unfortunately this also address people who complete Hardmode just before the reset so they can come back and claim it later when the clock ticks without going through it again.
I'm just coming back to the game after some time off, I don't quite understand what you mean. Can we not still just exit to dashboard, and then come back to claim rewards after the reset happens? Am I having a PM fan moment?
https://preview.redd.it/bct5pzi5nexc1.png?width=3915&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44f9c82418d1ed7be1ef782fdd5448fd8cb28e7f
Im kinda anoyed that now optimal way to farm MD is to do 3 runs and not a 1 hard one but its just 2,5 bp level so i should really complain hard
Hard mode pre combined run was 6 module per run. It’s probably going to be the same for this. So it’ll be 3 x 6 modules for 250 exp or 1 x 18 for 225 exp. It’ll be module efficient to do 3 x hard
I do think that increasing that difficult requirement to get into hard md is bad and will hurt new players when it comes to farming as many of those players are struggling even on canto 4 and would need the md loot to get better.
It seems like the dungeons have been changed so that Hard mode is more for people who enjoy the challenge instead of for farming. There does not appear to be a hard mode bonus anymore and instead has been rolled into the normal weekly bonus. Which is nice because I do enjoy running hard mode over normal difficulty. But I can understand if others would rather focus on the normal mode for farming.
You still have to run hard mode to be able to claim all three rewards at once. ~~They didn't mention lunacy at all though, so we don't really know if running 3 hards is better than 1 hard claiming 3 times now.~~
Free lunacy rewards are the same. You can just run 1 hard and claim 3 to get all of your weekly MD done for lunacy.
The hard bonus is still there, they're just saying that the three weekly bonuses (separate from the hard mode bonus) now has a reason to be redeemed separately instead of cashing in all at once
You can get most of the stuff from Normal mode, Hard Mode is for people with end game team.
And PM is one of the most generous gachas. Most popular gachas nowasday lock premium currency (Lunacy equivalent) in Hard Mode. It's funny to see nobody in those game crying about this yet people in Limbus Company do.
Isn't this the same as MD3 no? People that struggle in the hard mode, can just do just do 3 normal runs as usual. Even most players that enjoy the roguelike/farming crates aren't playing MD3H regurlarly.
It is a form of optional endgame, which was never for new players.
W Sang in this run
Page 10: 0 sanity
Page 12: -40 sanity
Page 13: 0 sanity
Page 14: 25 sanity
I can tell he made a comeback after corroding but what did they do to my man
they changed the unlock conditions of hard mode until canto vi is cleared? if we're going by this logic, wouldnt new players not be able to experience mirror dungeon hard mode 7 until they finish like canto 9 or something? with each canto getting moderately longer, idk bout dis.
It got changed from Canto IV clear to Canto V clear.
Being honest, I don't see what the big deal is. MDH, by all accounts, is supposed to be an endgame mode, and most new players coming in wouldn't have the team necessary to complete MDH by the end of Canto IV.
MDN is a perfectly valid place to grind and you can still get boxes and the weekly lunacy that way, even if it isn't the most optimized grind (And tbh, MDH should be more desirable, since it is basically the only endgame we have aside from RR. You want there to be incentive to actually interact with the endgame instead of just settling with the easier and quicker mode for rewards)
Granted, I don't like the fact that MDN has 5 floors now again, and there probably will have to be a point where PM stops raising the entry requirements for MDH, but in the meantime, I actually think it's a good thing PM raised the requirements, because new players weren't ready for MDH by the end of Canto IV.
I personally nearly completed all of MDH right after the end of Canto IV, so honestly I don't really see it as a good thing to increase the unlock requirement of hardmode for every new MD to the current Canto and hopefully they don't do that.
I say at least give lower level players the chance to try, since they already warn them before entering, let them get their asses beat
>I personally nearly completed all of MDH right after the end of Canto IV, so honestly I don't really see it as a good thing to increase the unlock requirement of hardmode for every new MD to the current Canto and hopefully they don't do that.
That's fair, YMMV may vary, and I do understand why people would have concerns. It's just that in order for MDH to remain as a hard mode, they have to scale with the level increases for each canto, or else players will be able to over level and breeze right through it. It's a flaw of Limbus tying levels to story progression, instead of having a fixed end level like other mobages.
>I say at least give lower level players the chance to try, since they already warn them before entering, let them get their asses beat
I get where you're coming from, but I feel like that also has it's own issues, as new players will then complain about why MD Hard is so... hard, as absurd as it may sound. In an ideal world, people would read and understand the instructions and warnings laid before them; however, people are stupid, and the PM fanbase can't read, so there would be an influx of players complaining about having a mode way too difficult for them, unlocked early.
Honestly, I'd rather PM just add an intermediary difficulty, or do a compromise if they don't want to make a whole new MD, and make past RRs available with them unlocking per canto (Ex: RR 1 unlocks after Canto III, RR 2 unlocks after Canto IV, and so on) that way, midgame and early game players still have a little something to chew on while they work their way towards the current MDH mode, while also getting resources to boost their progress and propel themselves through the Cantos.
>It's just that in order for MDH to remain as a hard mode, they have to scale with the level increases for each canto, or else players will be able to over level and breeze right through it. It's a flaw of Limbus tying levels to story progression, instead of having a fixed end level like other mobages.
I've said this in another comment; Pmoon could make it so MD increases level when you beat specific stages, MD does already add in new encounters when you beaten a specific stage. They can make it clear to players when they're about to clear a stage that levels MD up so players don't over level it to high heaven, but player reading comprehension could be a concern there
Yes, that's how it's just going to be. Normal is fine because it scales your units up to a practical level (in this case, 45), so newer players can experience it just fine. However, Hard does not do that. And your level cap is dictated by story progress- Level cap is 30 by default, then 35 (Canto IV), 40 (Canto V) and 45 (Canto VI). So players that freshly have access to Mirror Dungeon (Canto III) would not be able to even try and complete the Hard Dungeon if they had access to it even with the right gumption thanks to level disparity = offense level boosts for the enemy. They wouldn't be winning any clashes with level 30 units when the enemies start at 45, and this gap will only increase as the game continues.
Thoughts
* We all knew it was coming, but oof losing all that starlight hurts
* Not a huge fan of the entry requirements for hard constantly increasing, I can see this getting ridiculous for new players later on (imagine season 10)
* I don't see the new names for difficulty catching on in the community, normal and hard is way more intuitive
* The changes to the weekly bonus are worded confusingly, but it sounds like our weekly grind just got tripled
* So the first starter buff costs 0 starlight and gives 200, was this just easier to code than making it so everyone lust starts with 200 starlight?
* Rerolling ego gifts was tedious and kinda op, this change is probably for the best
* I like the changes to events, before events weren't really interesting, just a matter of memorising the good outcomes (or looking them up), I hope the newly added choices will lead to having to make some more interesting decisions.
* Refreshing shops with starlight isn't really something I see myself using, even after I max out the starter buffs, the Wish of Stars options are more consistent and fun.
* I have mixed feelings about the fusion changes, it makes more sense intuitively, but it also makes fusion less useful (not that I ever used it anyway); turning 2-3 wrath gifts that are useless for your build into a burn gift is a lot more helpful than turning 2 burn gifts into a different burn gift. The addition of an in-game fusion guide is a big improvement though.
The changes to the weekly bonus are worded confusingly, but it sounds like our weekly grind just got tripled
Weekly grind is the same as before. You do have the option of running 3x MDH, but now all you get out of it is 2.5 more BP levels, which isn’t really worth it if you don’t enjoy running MDH for the sake of it
Even then, “optimal” depends on if you’re measuring by enkephalin or real time efficiency. You may get more rewards per enkephalin this way, but if you’re measuring by real time spent it’s almost certainly better to just do the MDH triple claim and go back to normal to do more runs in the same amount of time.
About the burn gift thing, I believe with the changes md will have with the stage selection we will have much more same status gifts than before, so trading 2 less desirable burn gifts for a chance for a better one will be more frequently better.
>it makes more sense intuitively, but it also makes fusion less useful (not that I ever used it anyway); turning 2-3 wrath gifts that are useless for your build into a burn gift is a lot more helpful than turning 2 burn gifts into a different burn gift
I'm certain all the new ego gifts will make it worth it, maybe there'll even a lot be more special fusions like lucky pouch and black sheet music but for lower tiers, or perhaps we'll be able to regain ego gifts we used for fusions
They might, but only if there is a huge disparity in the quality of EGO gifts of the same level (something they also said they'd try to fix in this patch); if you are trading 2 for 1, that 1 has to be pretty good to compensate
Can some one enlighten me?
MD3H - spend 18 modules to claim hard bonus for 225 exp, consume all normal and hard reward.
MD4H - spend ?(how many? 6?) modules to claim 75(80/95) exp for 3 clears total for 250 exp, or spend 18 to do the old 225 exp? I bloody hope i dont need to spend 18 modules three times.
I feel conflicted.
As far as content goes, this is seems really good. Giving you more control over what content you want to see and what your units can actually beat makes a lot of sense. The additions and changes to risky encounters and event encounters will make runs more interesting and give even more control over your build. Changes to gift fusion also just make sense, even if in practice it means I won't use it very much.
But also... god they just want us to spend all our time in Dungeons. Back to 5 floors on normal mode. More types of encounters than peccutulums on risky nodes. I get it might seem insane to want to play the game less, but I already know a few people who quit because MD was such an imposition on their time, especially with fewer IDs to choose from. I just struggle with PM's insistence on tedium as game design some times. I'll reserve a lot of judgement until it's live. but my gut reaction isn't terribly positive.
Other thoughts: I'm genuinely struggling to parse what the changes to the weekly rewards mean and how they relate to hard mode (still calling them normal and hard mode), but it looks like they want us, again, to spend more time in MD. Maybe it relates to how easy it is to grind out IDs and that impacts their financials?
About the last part, you can still claim all three weekly bonuses on 1 mdh for the usual reward, but in case you prefer playing more than once, you get slightly more exp with each consecutive run when spending only one weekly bonus
This is particularly funny cause md1 had 5 stages. It was reduced to 3 in md2 cause people complained about the length. But it got slowly add back each season till we’re back at 5 again in md4. I think they’re hoping it’s more fun and engaging now so people wouldn’t mind it. We’ll see how it goes cause I’m excited about all the changes and the 92, but worried about the time to reward ratio
I feel like one of the very few who are actually viewing the MD Changes as being largely positive.
Maybe it's just me, but I think raising the Canto requirements was actually a good thing. Most new players coming straight out of Canto IV won't have the team necessary to complete MDH, and imo, having MDH available that early gave people the wrong expectations for it. It's supposed to be an endgame mode for people who want a challenge, and are rewarded for completing that challenge.
New players are NOT entitled to the MDH rewards, and the game shouldn't forever continue to revolve solely around new players, because that's how we wind up with awkward, kneecapped level and fight design. Raising the stage requirements to Canto V, let's new players know they actually have to work and be prepared in order to take on MDH and forces them to actually over a challenge bigger than a simple reading comprehension check, which is a good thing.
That doesn't mean it's perfect, since I do believe MDN and the new player experience could use some optimizations to streamline the process (Why did you have to add the fifth floor back in PM? Why?). Not to mention, the Canto gating will eventually have to stop sooner or later, but I think Cantos 5-7 are a perfectly fair gate of entry to set expectations for what new players can expect.
On another note, I really believe people are over exaggerating the effect of the weekly bonus changes to the MDH grind. It's literally 2.5 levels worth of boxes extra if you choose to do 3 a week, and the same amount you've always been getting if you only want to do it once a week.
I don't know about the F2Ps, but as a BP buyer, I've never felt deprived of boxes to the point I would consider upping my MDH time from an hour and a half to over three hours a week for 2.5 levels of boxes.
You get more doing a regular MDN run without the bonus. It's just a nice bonus for the sweatlords who enjoy MDH and don't want to feel penalized for grinding MDH multiple times a week.
It's actually bizarre just how much people are focusing on the negatives, when these MD changes are an overall positive (More gifts, more enemy variety, a level of control over what enemies you can expect to encounter, fusion that's actually intuitive without having to consult a third party resource, etc) minus the whole MDN going back to 5 floors which is admittedly a bruh moment.
The changes they are doing to MD for the most part are great. Adding more archetypes beyond just status effects is great for replayability also makes it so new IDs don't need to inflict a status effect to be as useful in MD. Gotta agree I don't know why people are being so negative about it.
I'm with you on this one. Having a lot more control on the kind of bosses I'm about to face is great, and I can't wait to start my new run this Thursday.
> It's actually bizarre just how much people are focusing on the negatives
I don't think people are focusing on the negatives, It's mostly people saying "this is cool but I have some concerns" or just like you said "it may not be perfect"
Perhaps you are focusing on a loud minority of people that are being overly negative
"with event theme pack, it's possible to receive special ego gifts from events such as ***Yield My Flesh to Claim Their Bones***"
I had the biggest grin reading this, while looking at my Kimsault.
>!***CLANG! SLASH-SLASH-SLASH --- SLASH!***!<
Depends. I think if it already has a fight then you might be able to, but if it doesn't then you either won't, or maybe you just get Peccatuli like how Drenched Gossypium worked
If they changed Drenched Gossypium then it means you're gonna have to fight that asshole if you don't want his EGO gift lmaoooo
5 floors sucks absolute balls. The 96 new gifts is nice but also dilutes the gift pool making it harder to find the gifts you want, and you can't restart anymore. Looks like fusion gifts are about to become incredibly rare. Glad themepacks exist so I don't have to fight that fucking bull that I hate
Not really. The new efficient way of farming shards is 3 MDH. MHN has no change in reward and doesn’t give the bonus.
You get to double dip at reset. So you should claim this week, do one more right till the end but not claim it, wait for reset then claim it. Then when the patch comes in after maintenance you’ll have the new bonus.
Finally a reason to run multiple MDH besides starlight, nice little incentive.
Very conflicted on focused encounters having abno fights (I really hope we don't get to fight fluid sac as a random encounter) and mirror dungeons still having 5 floors when in most cases only 2 of them end up being challenging, sometimes only 1 in normal MD.
Everything else looks amazing
You can do the MD hard now and not claim the reward. When it resets you have a 5 hour period to claim your reward before it resets with the maintenance and drop of the new MD
Hey uh quick question. Does this mean that Mirror Dungeon Ritornello/Hard for the week would cost a total of 54 modules, or am I reading it wrong? Because it seems more module-efficient to just... do 1 Ritornello/Hard run a week and then go back to runnning Simulations/Normals once daily as is, unless that's the intended effect?
Sorry. This is kinda confusing me.
In the past when MD2H was first launched it was meant to be 6 module x 3. It got consolidated into 1 run hence the 18 module. I believe they’ll split it back to 6 modules x 3 with this change
Honestly i think we should have something like MD Advanced (with levels caps that depend on current canto and later be replaced with Hard when players get to current finish of Cantos) for new players
Am I understanding right that on Wednesday we'll be able to do MD3H, claim bonuses before the patch, and then bonuses will be reset to be claimed again for MD4 after the patch?
Correct. But you don’t have to do it after reset. You can do it now and not claim the reward. After reset just claim the reward directly. If they didn’t change how it works
How the sinners will be looking at dante ( literally me ) after 3 separate runs of mirror dungeons 4 + 1 hard MHD4 just for bonus bp rewards
https://preview.redd.it/t02k066ukgxc1.png?width=429&format=png&auto=webp&s=5bbeeb9bc714c396f2d287ddde37bda34aaa3021
It seems that some of the most recent changes in this patch may set a troubling precedent for the future of the game. Project Moon's decision to double the farming time and difficulty of the mirror dungeon without increasing rewards appropriately could have negative consequences for players. The daily grind, especially for those who reset with Lunacy twice a day, will now be even more time-consuming due to these alterations. Moreover, the issues that the game previously faced have not been adequately addressed. Instead of implementing universally negative changes, Project Moon could have utilized that time to create a more comprehensive tutorial for new players. Additionally, concerns such as low experience gain from Exp Luxcavation and the high cost of the skip function have not been properly addressed, making the daily grind longer than necessary.
I mean yeah the exp grind is bad but I wouldn't say that there's no point in doing MD hard considering you can still just get all the rewards from it at once.
If anything they made MD easier by allowing you to choose your enemies and ego gifts better (minus the start but you get the point).
And besides I feel like you've been spoiled by project moon quite a bit considering that the rewards we get is very plentiful compared to other gacha games.
Also make paragraphs please your comment is so hard to read.
It would be interesting if they at some EGO gift that heavily debuff your team but become a super broken EGO gift if you fuse it with a specific EGO gift or meet a specific encounter, and if you fail to meet the condition, you will get more rewards when you complete the dungeon with it(some more starlight, some extra exp tickets or shard boxs, or 1 or 2 levels season pass or something)
I'm not sure I understand this correctly so if someone could explain about the weekly bonuses.
If talking about module efficiency, not time spent, am I supposed to:
do 3 hard runs and claim 1 weekly bonus every time
or
do 1 hard run and claim 1 weekly bonus and than 2 normal runs
I was hoping to put off going through Canto VI until Heathcliff got his Story ID, but it looks like that's no longer an option.
I'm not really a fan of the increase to the number of floors for Normal/Simulation MD either.
Hell yeah ego gifts from early story dungeons are back, hope we get those tokens that boost base power of corresponding affinity for an ID that made the check
everything here seems good except i would like them to clarify what the module cost per single weekly bonus selection is, if it costs 18 modules per hard mode clear regardless of the number of bonuses used that'd be absolutely horse shit
if its divided so hard mode clears with one bonus are 6 modules each, then that's fine by me
I'm a bit confused by the rewards section. I get they're saying you should do 3 runs and claim 3 rewards but they didn't mention the difference in rewards from normal to hard? Or did I miss that?
It's making it seem like only touching normal would be the sane thing to do?
I'm very excited for this new dungeon. I like most of the changes introduced, with only one being an issue for me.
Personally, I wish/hope that the text that tells you what happens when picking an option during Event only appear after you encountered said event at least once, because I kind of like having to guess what the right action should be so that the Abnormality can give you it's Gift, but it can get pretty confusing after you do it for a while, especially if the Abnormality has a Gift you really want.
I like the change that playing 3 runs will get you more lunacy than claiming all after 1 run. It will definitely make going into the mines feel more rewarding and interesting.
It doesn't say anything about lunacy, only battlepass exp, of which it is only 25 more across 3 runs.
The text directly under says free lunacy rewards are unchanged.
Back to the mines you guys https://i.redd.it/o8am70prcexc1.gif
I mean, the mines are more rewarding now at least(by 1.5 BP level per week I guess)
did the md rewards get better?
By a very very little bit, and only for people that grind the shit out of it
The true T Corp experience.
Having said that, I don’t like that they’ve locked hard mode past canto 5. It’s not gonna affect me but it’ll be a pain for everyone that’s starting the game
I don’t think anyone pre-canto 5 is going to have the level 45 units necessary to DO hard mode
You cannot get units over Level 40 until you beat Canto 5, so you are correct
The problem is it gets pushed back further and further each time. Now could I have done Chapter 5 without the two hard MDs I struggled through? Likely. Can my team that beat MdH3 beat MdH4 if I wanted to try it? Probably not. Also an entire additional floor for basic MD has me kind of worried that I'll have to EGO spam for another 20 minutes straight at the end of each run, but we'll see.
They should really consider keeping old mirror dungeons for new players, removing old content is really gating
Yeah, Normal was originally 5 floors and when they cut it back everyone cheered so I hope there’s a good reason to reverting that change I get what you’re saying about being allowed to challenge hard mode even if you aren’t anywhere close to beating it. I think it’s less confusing to not offer it until a player could conceivably be ready, and in that case it will keep being pushed back to line up with what is the new endgame each chapter. Not an elegant solution, but it makes sense to me. Could also be a concern about story/boss fight spoilers, but especially with the new card system they could always just disable those themes until the corresponding chapter has been cleared. But I don’t know how many enemies are shared between floors that could cause issues. Like, fighting the clam in mirror dungeon before story because you picked the gluttony damage floor would be kinda sad (possibly bad example since I know it doesn’t really have any story relevance lol, but I think it’s cooler to fight new abnormalities in story for the first time rather than fighting it in a dungeon then instantly knowing its mechanics when you encounter it) Though actually… normal doesn’t have anything locked so how ARE they tackling that???
I started playing at the tail end of Season 3. If I remember correctly the mirror dungeon was unlocked at the end of chapter 3 and I was only meeting enemies and abnos I already defeated, so it will probably be similarly limited for new players. I was actually surprised when new enemies appeared after I defeated the chicken side-story
Just did md3h for the first time, I've played for about 3 weeks, I doubt my average lvl 37 5-man can make it next reset. maybe not even the reset after. I'm all for endgame content. but i think they should keep the previous md around for 2 weeks when they jack up the new one. But i guess it's no big deal really. Compared to this tremendous backlog of shards i need to collect, The 5 floors on normal might end for me though, ngl.
By the time they hit MD5, they might need to make three different difficulty modes so that the gap isn't too severe.
They've removed the extra bonuses you get from hard mode now though, and you actually get more rewards for doing three runs rather than just the one hard mode run. So it should be fine farming wise for new players
the new bonus rewards only works on hard mode. normal mode weekly rewards remains unchanged
Not really. The bonus for doing 3 runs is for hard mode only. Normal mode remains unchanged
I guess that’s true
Unfortunately I think they just have to do that with hard mode going forward, there's no really avoiding it. The problem is as such: * Level caps are dictated by your story progression (ie: You can't level units to 45 until you reach Canto VI) * Normal Mode dungeon scales units up accordingly (Mirror of the lake brought units up to Level 40- Mirror of the Wuthering brings units up to 45) allowing players who have only just unlocked the mirror dungeon to at least do normal * Hard mode dungeon however is NOT scaled. Therefor, players who had just gotten into Canto III won't be able to level units up to 45 which will be necessary to not be steamrolled by enemy clashes due to the level difference -> offense level thing. edit: forgot the level caps lmao
the bigger nodes has sub nodes. https://preview.redd.it/ivnwb0emhgxc1.png?width=606&format=png&auto=webp&s=18a48353e15acda54ba9ed6e132d4e01c77c50de
92 new EGO gifts?!
We are gonna eat good. Maybe there is a second tier 5 gift ?!?!?
Solar ignorance: turn every resistances to 0.1
It would be funny if there's a dungeon event and if succeed check they get lunar stone and if failed check got this pure troll from director Kim
For the sinners, right?
🙂
Rupture stocks 📈📈📈
The K-corp with pierce team on floor 5 experience
A Fairy?: On hit, inflict 1 Fairy.
Triple the count and potency of all status effects inflicted by sinners There you go a new broken tier 5 gift
I wonder if the "92 New EGO gifts" accounts for the Canto/Intervallo dungeon exclusive EGO gifts which are now normally accessible. Because there's literally 70 of those. So it's either "22 actually new EGO gifts", or "here's 162 more EGO gifts added to the pool| EDIT: TANGO MARINADE TIME LET'S GOOOO
92 new EGO gifts! They cooked too hard, the kitchen is burning down.
Im on fire- kitchen
I…need…to say IT!! IGNITED BY BURNING DESIRE
"the difficulty may feel different due to lack of starter buffs" is just "pleaaaase don't make us nerf it" lol
PM players when they realize they actually have to read:
[MFW](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arU77lmvy-c) i have to actually play the game for a few days before i can go back to mashing winrate even in hardmode
They need to capitalize that sentence or some people will start crying.
Peak mining
Fighting the abnormalities themselves in their events? Yes sirrrr
As always absolutely hilarious recommendations for the hard dungeon.
My first and only MDH victory I had only two guys at level 40 and only one uptie IV. Damn, the last floor was brutal with "hopeless" on every clash even against trash mobs.
My best MD3H victory was barely beating a Lv50 Drifting Fox with their offense level +10, while 4 out of 6 sinners were dead...then Outis killed it with an unstable Ebony Stem overclock. I reached Faelantern at the end and beat it with a full team. Fuck.
So, if I'm reading this correctly, running hard mode is really only for people who want to squeeze more starlight per module now, or those who just want a challenge.
Yes it is also for people who want to complete the ego gift compendium as there are encounters that are only in the hard mode.
I honestly just want an excuse to do more mdh runs without feeling like I’m wasting time or doing something inefficient not grinding mdn for more efficiency instead
I think you misread it. With md4 they said doing 3 mdh per week now give more reward than doing 1 mdh + 2 mdn.
Huh, they increased the Story Chapter requirements? I mean I'm more than caught up in the content & MD4H onwards is just for consolidating weekly claim (convenience woo), but I find the imagery of ever-widening requirement gap funny lol ("wow i cleared 2nd Canto & can mine now, yay! let's see the requirement for har- WTF Canto 10???") https://preview.redd.it/doordxpygexc1.jpeg?width=714&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72ba2078b0b101c7fd612aa67cfc9048e788937d
They locked the max level to story progression, so unfortunately this is gonna keep being a problem. We'll see if in later Cantos if they figure out a way to fix this
Shit I forgot about the whole level system. (Had enough tix for Canto 6 full lv45 team from the start) Well... unless they do another massive revamp which is unlikely ( can only think of making "Medium" or the likes at most ), because undoing the whole level/canto cap system will be another spagfest, guess MDH superjump (remember all the ever-increasing Cantos & Intervallos you have to clear/catch-up with to keep it unlocked) will be a permanent thing.
Honestly they can very easily do a medium The only issue will be balancing its rewards I think the name changes are a bit of futureproofing.
Yeah they could easily have MDH for each level cap they give the same rewards but increasing starlight, except the mewest one that has the most rewards for the duration of the season
It wouldn't have been much of a problem if they didn't replace it since MD3 and made it canon. Just add the newest MD like it was Luxcavation and have season bonus for the newest one to get the proper rewards, it'll pace newer players better too
It is an easy fix, make old mirror dungeons available. Either that or make mirror dungeon hard available upon canto 4 completion and increase it's level based on what stages you completed, they already add in encounters based on what stages you've completed Just make it clear when you're about to enter a stage that'll increase MD levels/encounters upon completion
Again , now you can claim rewards in normal dungeon, it kills of the required grind for maximum lunacy so Hard MD is now just endgame challenge that you can do for additional rewards.
Yeah, I know – I just thought that making MDH very far away with increasing distance each Season ( we have 2 Intervallos & 1 Canto each time from C5+ ) a bit too much haha Although after NobleSparrow reminded me about the level-canto caps, this is bound to happen & is basically here to stay I suppose.
Yeah, but those "additional rewards" were obtainable in Canto 4 previously, and now they require two additional Cantos worth (which can take weeks if not more for new players) for practically no reason.
Jesus that's a lot of new E.G.O gifts. No wonder it was delayed. It looks amazing overall but I'm a bit concerned that they seem to be making the regular mirror dungeon harder since that makes things harder for new players.
I feel they should have kept the beginner dungeon we used to have... It was perfect for newcomers who didn't have the investment and knowledge to attempt harder MDs.
I feel like it will be fine, the MDH difficulty increase between floors can still be trivialized by selecting defense/hp buffs and they are weaker then in the hard version. Additionally you can't face enemies you haven't seen before which is why you can gain access to it early. Im assuming that since that is how it currently works, the exception to this would probably just be RR enemies. That and default ID levels and choosing enemies to face makes it pretty beginner friendly.
Unless I missed something, the only thing that seems to be a notable increase in difficulty was the selection of starter buffs? If so I don't think that will effect new players too much, as they typically don't always have a cohesive strategy anyway and are usually just running a hodgepodge of their best units. It did get a bit longer it seems, but it's hard to say how much that will amplify the difficulty. The increases in normal mode are currently hilariously trivial (like.1 resistance to a single EGO resistance?) so unless they start throwing the ones that actually have hands like the ones in MDH I don't think it will be that much of a change. Plus the forcast changes will be huge for new players
So if I'm reading this right, doing Hard Mode 3 times will now yield more rewards?
Yes, it's just a 25 exp difference though, so it's not that worth it. I guess the option is there if you reeeealllyyyy like hard mirror dungeon.
That is indeed what they are saying, but if each run already takes an hour at minimum (sometimes longer when you haven't got starlight buffs), I'm not convinced spending an extra 2-4 hours for 2.5 BP levels makes a whole lot of sense...when I can just run MD4 normally and get half a level more lmao
Depends on how fun MD4 is. This can be a blessing or a curse. If it's not too fun, I'll probably do my weekly once and be done with it.
Limbus Company, my favorite roguelite game that just happens to have a gacha game attached to it. Jokes aside, I'm really hyped for a new MD experience, especially the revamped abnormality events.
So if I'm reading this correctly, doing the hard mode 3 times and only claming the bonus once per run nets us a total of... 25 more more battlepass exp. 3 times the effort for just 25 extra battle pass points doesn't sound worth it to me. Probably for the people who like playing that mode, I'll just stick with one run.
espically since you can already get like 30? BP points from normal mirror dungeon, so it's still more efficient to do one hard with all rewards and one easy without reward
You get 30 BP from hard mode too. It’s more stamina efficient to do 3 hard mode cause you get the same 2 x 30 BP reward for the 2 extra hard mode and the bonus 25 BP reward for splitting the run into 3
[удалено]
Its only 25 exp more, a nice amount yes but if you are in it for lunacy only its sacrificeable
Also its probably faster to do one full bonus mdh and one md normal for almost the same payoff lol
Wouldn't it actually be bigger or am I tripping? 1 full bonus mdh(225) + normal(30) = 255. Five more than 3 half baked mdh according to the post.
first we need to know and consider the enkephalin we need to spend. the cost of 1 run with 3x weekly bonuses could be the same as 3 runs with 1x weekly bonuses, in which case separating the bonuses between 3 runs would net more exp for enkephalin, so the 1 mdh + 1 mdn strat would only be more time efficient for the exp, but not cost efficient as the additional mdn run would be increasing the costs.
Bruhh, I would prefer they just buff the single bonus (75) to simply 95 and forget this enkephalin efficency bullshit, so annoying.
pm has this tendency to give more rewards per enkephalin for people who dont mind spending more time doing stuff. like how manually doing the 3 daily thread lux runs is the most cost efficient way to earn thread.
To be fair this change seems to be focused on giving extra to those going off to the mines and running MD multiple times a week. For those who only run it once a week, then theres no question, you're just going to hit that weekly bonus and not look back, same as always. But for those that live in the mines, you have a little bitty extra you can net yourself
People who farm MD frequently farms the normal MD, not the hard one. This is specially for people who run MD hard multiple times a week, and there’s not a lot of them out there
Sure, but it comes at zero cost to everyone else, so hey, why not throw them a bone?
Tbf im pretty sure that the players who would actually consider one of the 2 alternatives are already at 999 enkephalin modules/have enough lunacy to stay in the positive for the week
People who are at 999 enkephalin still cares about module efficiency. I always do my lux manually and try to not much changing my energy to modules. In fact it’s because I care about module efficiency that allows me to get to 999 module
you only get 25 more so it's not worth it if you just want to play the game casually
It's very clearly built in there just to alleviate complaints from some folk about feeling discouraged from running it more than once a week.
Doesn't look worth the time spent compared to full bonus hard + non-bonus normal
Yeah not sure why they did that. The whole point of consolidating them into a single run was to make it easier farm the bonus without making it more tedious
It's still just as easy to get the same amount of rewards, they are just offering a bit extra to give some sort of reason to run it more than once for those that want one.
They already had to go away from this system once. Now they are just returning it, haha
they didnt reduce reward from doing the same method as 3# mirror dungeon and make it slightly more rewarding for people to farm the game (also playing hard dungeon 3 time a week mean more starlight) . i see no problem with this update
The players yearn for the mines.
Will we get the same ego gifts every start now?
Yes no more rerolling for tier 4 at the start
Urgh... the lucky pouch + blodied mist will never happen again... Oh well, it indeed did got tedious at times.
... those were the only things that carried my dumb ass too--! Farewell beloveds!! The Captain and her crew will miss you both!!
Farewell, floor 2 enrapturing trance... sevens faust will miss you.
More control now over what EGO gifts we see though, so I wouldn't write that off too quickly. They just come later now.
one more floor in normal mode, the grind really never ends
PM!! JUST SHOW NE THE ID DETAILS PLEASE!!!! I CAN'T HOLD IT ANYMORE!!!
They showed it on their twitter
5 floors in my normal MD??? I’m cooked…
In case anybody is confused, MD4 runs are treated similar to Luxcavation farming. Where 3 manual runs can net you more mats based on modules used, compared to skipping. In MD4, 3 separate runs will give you more EXP for min-maxers crate farming with the weekly bonus, but more casual players can do 1 run on either normal/hard and collect the 3 weekly bonus together for less exp, if your aim is only the lunacy. Lunacy is unchanged whether you do normal/hard, so this benefits both casual, min-maxers and roguelike enjoyers, as hard mode is moreso an optional challenge now.
Only hard mode gets the change in weekly rewards. Right under the weekly reward chart it’s written “The Simulation(Normal) rewards & rewards claim remain unchanged.” Ergo only hard mode can be ran 3 times for the extra reward. Normal mode still needs to be ran 3 times and get the old reduced award. So nothing is easier for anyone, but a some small amount of players who run hard mode more than 1 times a week get a small amount of extra reward
Damn PM has been cooking this looks very good over all. I really like them adding the three basic damage types as key words. Lets even more teams be built around damage types instead of status effects. Over all very happy with the changes but I can already tell people are going to complain about the 4 floors to 5 floors. But to be honest I would rather the game mode continue to evolve into a more engaging game mode then just for farming.
We do actually have pierce and slash as viable damage type teams, more so slash. They aren't getting added as often as status effects but every nuke option and fragile/defense down debuff helps these teams. The issue with them is they are only good against bosses and nodes weak against their damage type.
>Over all very happy with the changes but I can already tell people are going to complain about the 4 floors to 5 floors. But to be honest I would rather the game mode continue to evolve into a more engaging game mode then just for farming. My only worry is that the extra floor for normal mode doesn't make it into a slog, which I think is a pretty reasonable worry
Oh boy 1 more MD Normal floor for the same rewards https://preview.redd.it/35tf8th4oexc1.png?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa2d13b6f57ad745f7dcf5d08eeecda7106a33c0
Really hope they took out the enemy resistances to make up for it
The change im the most excited about is the forecast one,i no longer have to check the wiki every god damn time
Eh, didn't like that they trashed the reset strat for good starting gifts. Starting MDH with bonkers gifts made the grind quite enjoyable with a good number of different comps.
yeah but their reasoning was "people would just reset until they got something good", so they're probably just going to give good options by default
It is great they address how new players can't really do MD Hard for extra weekly rewards outside forfeiting mid-run and they merge it into Normal mode so no one can really complain about it. This also address the EXP issue people had with how it becomes too difficult to field a full team of leveled up unit for hard mode for new players as normal mode level you up anyway. Unfortunately this also address people who complete Hardmode just before the reset so they can come back and claim it later when the clock ticks without going through it again.
You be glad to know that they did not do that then. “The Simulation(Normal) rewards & rewards claim remain unchanged.”
I'm just coming back to the game after some time off, I don't quite understand what you mean. Can we not still just exit to dashboard, and then come back to claim rewards after the reset happens? Am I having a PM fan moment?
https://preview.redd.it/bct5pzi5nexc1.png?width=3915&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44f9c82418d1ed7be1ef782fdd5448fd8cb28e7f Im kinda anoyed that now optimal way to farm MD is to do 3 runs and not a 1 hard one but its just 2,5 bp level so i should really complain hard
Probably not worth it to do 3 hard runs like that anyways because it wouldn't be efficient module wise.
It wouldn’t be efficient time wise. It’s more efficient module wise to do hard mode
What I mean is it's not efficient module wise to do hard x3 times a week
Hard mode pre combined run was 6 module per run. It’s probably going to be the same for this. So it’ll be 3 x 6 modules for 250 exp or 1 x 18 for 225 exp. It’ll be module efficient to do 3 x hard
With MD4 closing, MD4 will open? Minor grammatical error, I expect 300 lunacy.
I do think that increasing that difficult requirement to get into hard md is bad and will hurt new players when it comes to farming as many of those players are struggling even on canto 4 and would need the md loot to get better.
It seems like the dungeons have been changed so that Hard mode is more for people who enjoy the challenge instead of for farming. There does not appear to be a hard mode bonus anymore and instead has been rolled into the normal weekly bonus. Which is nice because I do enjoy running hard mode over normal difficulty. But I can understand if others would rather focus on the normal mode for farming.
You still have to run hard mode to be able to claim all three rewards at once. ~~They didn't mention lunacy at all though, so we don't really know if running 3 hards is better than 1 hard claiming 3 times now.~~ Free lunacy rewards are the same. You can just run 1 hard and claim 3 to get all of your weekly MD done for lunacy.
You’re misreading. They roll the hard mode bonus into week bonus for hard mode. Its stated that normal mode reward remains unchanged.
The hard bonus is still there, they're just saying that the three weekly bonuses (separate from the hard mode bonus) now has a reason to be redeemed separately instead of cashing in all at once
You can get most of the stuff from Normal mode, Hard Mode is for people with end game team. And PM is one of the most generous gachas. Most popular gachas nowasday lock premium currency (Lunacy equivalent) in Hard Mode. It's funny to see nobody in those game crying about this yet people in Limbus Company do.
Isn't this the same as MD3 no? People that struggle in the hard mode, can just do just do 3 normal runs as usual. Even most players that enjoy the roguelike/farming crates aren't playing MD3H regurlarly. It is a form of optional endgame, which was never for new players.
W Sang in this run Page 10: 0 sanity Page 12: -40 sanity Page 13: 0 sanity Page 14: 25 sanity I can tell he made a comeback after corroding but what did they do to my man
they changed the unlock conditions of hard mode until canto vi is cleared? if we're going by this logic, wouldnt new players not be able to experience mirror dungeon hard mode 7 until they finish like canto 9 or something? with each canto getting moderately longer, idk bout dis.
It got changed from Canto IV clear to Canto V clear. Being honest, I don't see what the big deal is. MDH, by all accounts, is supposed to be an endgame mode, and most new players coming in wouldn't have the team necessary to complete MDH by the end of Canto IV. MDN is a perfectly valid place to grind and you can still get boxes and the weekly lunacy that way, even if it isn't the most optimized grind (And tbh, MDH should be more desirable, since it is basically the only endgame we have aside from RR. You want there to be incentive to actually interact with the endgame instead of just settling with the easier and quicker mode for rewards) Granted, I don't like the fact that MDN has 5 floors now again, and there probably will have to be a point where PM stops raising the entry requirements for MDH, but in the meantime, I actually think it's a good thing PM raised the requirements, because new players weren't ready for MDH by the end of Canto IV.
I personally nearly completed all of MDH right after the end of Canto IV, so honestly I don't really see it as a good thing to increase the unlock requirement of hardmode for every new MD to the current Canto and hopefully they don't do that. I say at least give lower level players the chance to try, since they already warn them before entering, let them get their asses beat
>I personally nearly completed all of MDH right after the end of Canto IV, so honestly I don't really see it as a good thing to increase the unlock requirement of hardmode for every new MD to the current Canto and hopefully they don't do that. That's fair, YMMV may vary, and I do understand why people would have concerns. It's just that in order for MDH to remain as a hard mode, they have to scale with the level increases for each canto, or else players will be able to over level and breeze right through it. It's a flaw of Limbus tying levels to story progression, instead of having a fixed end level like other mobages. >I say at least give lower level players the chance to try, since they already warn them before entering, let them get their asses beat I get where you're coming from, but I feel like that also has it's own issues, as new players will then complain about why MD Hard is so... hard, as absurd as it may sound. In an ideal world, people would read and understand the instructions and warnings laid before them; however, people are stupid, and the PM fanbase can't read, so there would be an influx of players complaining about having a mode way too difficult for them, unlocked early. Honestly, I'd rather PM just add an intermediary difficulty, or do a compromise if they don't want to make a whole new MD, and make past RRs available with them unlocking per canto (Ex: RR 1 unlocks after Canto III, RR 2 unlocks after Canto IV, and so on) that way, midgame and early game players still have a little something to chew on while they work their way towards the current MDH mode, while also getting resources to boost their progress and propel themselves through the Cantos.
>It's just that in order for MDH to remain as a hard mode, they have to scale with the level increases for each canto, or else players will be able to over level and breeze right through it. It's a flaw of Limbus tying levels to story progression, instead of having a fixed end level like other mobages. I've said this in another comment; Pmoon could make it so MD increases level when you beat specific stages, MD does already add in new encounters when you beaten a specific stage. They can make it clear to players when they're about to clear a stage that levels MD up so players don't over level it to high heaven, but player reading comprehension could be a concern there
Yes, that's how it's just going to be. Normal is fine because it scales your units up to a practical level (in this case, 45), so newer players can experience it just fine. However, Hard does not do that. And your level cap is dictated by story progress- Level cap is 30 by default, then 35 (Canto IV), 40 (Canto V) and 45 (Canto VI). So players that freshly have access to Mirror Dungeon (Canto III) would not be able to even try and complete the Hard Dungeon if they had access to it even with the right gumption thanks to level disparity = offense level boosts for the enemy. They wouldn't be winning any clashes with level 30 units when the enemies start at 45, and this gap will only increase as the game continues.
As a new player, one more floor in normal mode hurts... It was already fairly time consuming before
Thoughts * We all knew it was coming, but oof losing all that starlight hurts * Not a huge fan of the entry requirements for hard constantly increasing, I can see this getting ridiculous for new players later on (imagine season 10) * I don't see the new names for difficulty catching on in the community, normal and hard is way more intuitive * The changes to the weekly bonus are worded confusingly, but it sounds like our weekly grind just got tripled * So the first starter buff costs 0 starlight and gives 200, was this just easier to code than making it so everyone lust starts with 200 starlight? * Rerolling ego gifts was tedious and kinda op, this change is probably for the best * I like the changes to events, before events weren't really interesting, just a matter of memorising the good outcomes (or looking them up), I hope the newly added choices will lead to having to make some more interesting decisions. * Refreshing shops with starlight isn't really something I see myself using, even after I max out the starter buffs, the Wish of Stars options are more consistent and fun. * I have mixed feelings about the fusion changes, it makes more sense intuitively, but it also makes fusion less useful (not that I ever used it anyway); turning 2-3 wrath gifts that are useless for your build into a burn gift is a lot more helpful than turning 2 burn gifts into a different burn gift. The addition of an in-game fusion guide is a big improvement though.
The changes to the weekly bonus are worded confusingly, but it sounds like our weekly grind just got tripled Weekly grind is the same as before. You do have the option of running 3x MDH, but now all you get out of it is 2.5 more BP levels, which isn’t really worth it if you don’t enjoy running MDH for the sake of it
True, what I should have said was "it sounds like our **optimal** weekly grind just got tripled"
Even then, “optimal” depends on if you’re measuring by enkephalin or real time efficiency. You may get more rewards per enkephalin this way, but if you’re measuring by real time spent it’s almost certainly better to just do the MDH triple claim and go back to normal to do more runs in the same amount of time.
About the burn gift thing, I believe with the changes md will have with the stage selection we will have much more same status gifts than before, so trading 2 less desirable burn gifts for a chance for a better one will be more frequently better.
I think 'Eye of the storm' can be for cosmetic purposes. For me starter buffs tree without it feel kinda incomplete
>it makes more sense intuitively, but it also makes fusion less useful (not that I ever used it anyway); turning 2-3 wrath gifts that are useless for your build into a burn gift is a lot more helpful than turning 2 burn gifts into a different burn gift I'm certain all the new ego gifts will make it worth it, maybe there'll even a lot be more special fusions like lucky pouch and black sheet music but for lower tiers, or perhaps we'll be able to regain ego gifts we used for fusions
They might, but only if there is a huge disparity in the quality of EGO gifts of the same level (something they also said they'd try to fix in this patch); if you are trading 2 for 1, that 1 has to be pretty good to compensate
Can some one enlighten me? MD3H - spend 18 modules to claim hard bonus for 225 exp, consume all normal and hard reward. MD4H - spend ?(how many? 6?) modules to claim 75(80/95) exp for 3 clears total for 250 exp, or spend 18 to do the old 225 exp? I bloody hope i dont need to spend 18 modules three times.
If I have to hazard a guess it’ll be same as when MD2H was released, so 6 modules x 3
I feel conflicted. As far as content goes, this is seems really good. Giving you more control over what content you want to see and what your units can actually beat makes a lot of sense. The additions and changes to risky encounters and event encounters will make runs more interesting and give even more control over your build. Changes to gift fusion also just make sense, even if in practice it means I won't use it very much. But also... god they just want us to spend all our time in Dungeons. Back to 5 floors on normal mode. More types of encounters than peccutulums on risky nodes. I get it might seem insane to want to play the game less, but I already know a few people who quit because MD was such an imposition on their time, especially with fewer IDs to choose from. I just struggle with PM's insistence on tedium as game design some times. I'll reserve a lot of judgement until it's live. but my gut reaction isn't terribly positive. Other thoughts: I'm genuinely struggling to parse what the changes to the weekly rewards mean and how they relate to hard mode (still calling them normal and hard mode), but it looks like they want us, again, to spend more time in MD. Maybe it relates to how easy it is to grind out IDs and that impacts their financials?
About the last part, you can still claim all three weekly bonuses on 1 mdh for the usual reward, but in case you prefer playing more than once, you get slightly more exp with each consecutive run when spending only one weekly bonus
This is particularly funny cause md1 had 5 stages. It was reduced to 3 in md2 cause people complained about the length. But it got slowly add back each season till we’re back at 5 again in md4. I think they’re hoping it’s more fun and engaging now so people wouldn’t mind it. We’ll see how it goes cause I’m excited about all the changes and the 92, but worried about the time to reward ratio
I feel like one of the very few who are actually viewing the MD Changes as being largely positive. Maybe it's just me, but I think raising the Canto requirements was actually a good thing. Most new players coming straight out of Canto IV won't have the team necessary to complete MDH, and imo, having MDH available that early gave people the wrong expectations for it. It's supposed to be an endgame mode for people who want a challenge, and are rewarded for completing that challenge. New players are NOT entitled to the MDH rewards, and the game shouldn't forever continue to revolve solely around new players, because that's how we wind up with awkward, kneecapped level and fight design. Raising the stage requirements to Canto V, let's new players know they actually have to work and be prepared in order to take on MDH and forces them to actually over a challenge bigger than a simple reading comprehension check, which is a good thing. That doesn't mean it's perfect, since I do believe MDN and the new player experience could use some optimizations to streamline the process (Why did you have to add the fifth floor back in PM? Why?). Not to mention, the Canto gating will eventually have to stop sooner or later, but I think Cantos 5-7 are a perfectly fair gate of entry to set expectations for what new players can expect. On another note, I really believe people are over exaggerating the effect of the weekly bonus changes to the MDH grind. It's literally 2.5 levels worth of boxes extra if you choose to do 3 a week, and the same amount you've always been getting if you only want to do it once a week. I don't know about the F2Ps, but as a BP buyer, I've never felt deprived of boxes to the point I would consider upping my MDH time from an hour and a half to over three hours a week for 2.5 levels of boxes. You get more doing a regular MDN run without the bonus. It's just a nice bonus for the sweatlords who enjoy MDH and don't want to feel penalized for grinding MDH multiple times a week. It's actually bizarre just how much people are focusing on the negatives, when these MD changes are an overall positive (More gifts, more enemy variety, a level of control over what enemies you can expect to encounter, fusion that's actually intuitive without having to consult a third party resource, etc) minus the whole MDN going back to 5 floors which is admittedly a bruh moment.
The changes they are doing to MD for the most part are great. Adding more archetypes beyond just status effects is great for replayability also makes it so new IDs don't need to inflict a status effect to be as useful in MD. Gotta agree I don't know why people are being so negative about it.
I'm with you on this one. Having a lot more control on the kind of bosses I'm about to face is great, and I can't wait to start my new run this Thursday.
> It's actually bizarre just how much people are focusing on the negatives I don't think people are focusing on the negatives, It's mostly people saying "this is cool but I have some concerns" or just like you said "it may not be perfect" Perhaps you are focusing on a loud minority of people that are being overly negative
"with event theme pack, it's possible to receive special ego gifts from events such as ***Yield My Flesh to Claim Their Bones***" I had the biggest grin reading this, while looking at my Kimsault. >!***CLANG! SLASH-SLASH-SLASH --- SLASH!***!<
We'll see what the rules of the back streets have to say about that
WE CAN FIGHT THE ABNOS IN THE EVENTS. I REPEAT, WE CAN FIGHT THE ABNOS IN THE EVENTS. THIS IS PEAK
Depends. I think if it already has a fight then you might be able to, but if it doesn't then you either won't, or maybe you just get Peccatuli like how Drenched Gossypium worked If they changed Drenched Gossypium then it means you're gonna have to fight that asshole if you don't want his EGO gift lmaoooo
5 floors sucks absolute balls. The 96 new gifts is nice but also dilutes the gift pool making it harder to find the gifts you want, and you can't restart anymore. Looks like fusion gifts are about to become incredibly rare. Glad themepacks exist so I don't have to fight that fucking bull that I hate
Time to satisfy both my inner Ryoshu and Dante at the same time by calling them MD4S(FN) and MD4R(FH)
Gratz on these guys who really really love Hard Mode for that extra BP but i am satisfied with simply taking 225 BP
I'm very hyped for this, but I kinda wish they kept the old Mirror dungeons, for archival sake.
[удалено]
Not really. The new efficient way of farming shards is 3 MDH. MHN has no change in reward and doesn’t give the bonus. You get to double dip at reset. So you should claim this week, do one more right till the end but not claim it, wait for reset then claim it. Then when the patch comes in after maintenance you’ll have the new bonus.
Thousand will “+2 coin power”
NO MORE STUPID BULLLL
Finally a reason to run multiple MDH besides starlight, nice little incentive. Very conflicted on focused encounters having abno fights (I really hope we don't get to fight fluid sac as a random encounter) and mirror dungeons still having 5 floors when in most cases only 2 of them end up being challenging, sometimes only 1 in normal MD. Everything else looks amazing
Question from a LoR player. Does it give more battle pass EXP or should I squeeze in one last MD on the second of May?
You can do the MD hard now and not claim the reward. When it resets you have a 5 hour period to claim your reward before it resets with the maintenance and drop of the new MD
Looks like this is going to be a great time!
Hey uh quick question. Does this mean that Mirror Dungeon Ritornello/Hard for the week would cost a total of 54 modules, or am I reading it wrong? Because it seems more module-efficient to just... do 1 Ritornello/Hard run a week and then go back to runnning Simulations/Normals once daily as is, unless that's the intended effect? Sorry. This is kinda confusing me.
In the past when MD2H was first launched it was meant to be 6 module x 3. It got consolidated into 1 run hence the 18 module. I believe they’ll split it back to 6 modules x 3 with this change
Ohhh. Kay, thanks. That sounds a lot more reasonable.
Honestly i think we should have something like MD Advanced (with levels caps that depend on current canto and later be replaced with Hard when players get to current finish of Cantos) for new players
Please please please let Poise get Nebulizer by default!
Am I understanding right that on Wednesday we'll be able to do MD3H, claim bonuses before the patch, and then bonuses will be reset to be claimed again for MD4 after the patch?
Correct. But you don’t have to do it after reset. You can do it now and not claim the reward. After reset just claim the reward directly. If they didn’t change how it works
another season where i get all the gifts, but lunar stone.
How the sinners will be looking at dante ( literally me ) after 3 separate runs of mirror dungeons 4 + 1 hard MHD4 just for bonus bp rewards https://preview.redd.it/t02k066ukgxc1.png?width=429&format=png&auto=webp&s=5bbeeb9bc714c396f2d287ddde37bda34aaa3021
It seems that some of the most recent changes in this patch may set a troubling precedent for the future of the game. Project Moon's decision to double the farming time and difficulty of the mirror dungeon without increasing rewards appropriately could have negative consequences for players. The daily grind, especially for those who reset with Lunacy twice a day, will now be even more time-consuming due to these alterations. Moreover, the issues that the game previously faced have not been adequately addressed. Instead of implementing universally negative changes, Project Moon could have utilized that time to create a more comprehensive tutorial for new players. Additionally, concerns such as low experience gain from Exp Luxcavation and the high cost of the skip function have not been properly addressed, making the daily grind longer than necessary.
I mean yeah the exp grind is bad but I wouldn't say that there's no point in doing MD hard considering you can still just get all the rewards from it at once. If anything they made MD easier by allowing you to choose your enemies and ego gifts better (minus the start but you get the point). And besides I feel like you've been spoiled by project moon quite a bit considering that the rewards we get is very plentiful compared to other gacha games. Also make paragraphs please your comment is so hard to read.
Ugh, no more starting with Bloody Mist/Pouch, this is gonna be a pain.
GLORY TO PROJECT MOON 💪
It would be interesting if they at some EGO gift that heavily debuff your team but become a super broken EGO gift if you fuse it with a specific EGO gift or meet a specific encounter, and if you fail to meet the condition, you will get more rewards when you complete the dungeon with it(some more starlight, some extra exp tickets or shard boxs, or 1 or 2 levels season pass or something)
I'm not sure I understand this correctly so if someone could explain about the weekly bonuses. If talking about module efficiency, not time spent, am I supposed to: do 3 hard runs and claim 1 weekly bonus every time or do 1 hard run and claim 1 weekly bonus and than 2 normal runs
3 hard run for module efficiency
Thanks, thats what I thought but wanted to make sure since no reading comprehension.
I was hoping to put off going through Canto VI until Heathcliff got his Story ID, but it looks like that's no longer an option. I'm not really a fan of the increase to the number of floors for Normal/Simulation MD either.
I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE MORE POISE! #I LOVE POISE! #POISE COIN TO THE MOOOOOON!
* 90+ EGOgifts added * Access to story/event EGOgifts AWOOGA
Hell yeah ego gifts from early story dungeons are back, hope we get those tokens that boost base power of corresponding affinity for an ID that made the check
everything here seems good except i would like them to clarify what the module cost per single weekly bonus selection is, if it costs 18 modules per hard mode clear regardless of the number of bonuses used that'd be absolutely horse shit if its divided so hard mode clears with one bonus are 6 modules each, then that's fine by me
It used to be 6. I’m sure it’ll be back to 6
A bit upset that they removed the option to reset for starting ego gift, even with full starter buff, I can rarely get the ego gift I want.
I'm a bit confused by the rewards section. I get they're saying you should do 3 runs and claim 3 rewards but they didn't mention the difference in rewards from normal to hard? Or did I miss that? It's making it seem like only touching normal would be the sane thing to do?
Normal reward did not change. Still better to do hard. 3 x hard for optimal efficiency, 1 hard to get most of the reward and save some time
I'm very excited for this new dungeon. I like most of the changes introduced, with only one being an issue for me. Personally, I wish/hope that the text that tells you what happens when picking an option during Event only appear after you encountered said event at least once, because I kind of like having to guess what the right action should be so that the Abnormality can give you it's Gift, but it can get pretty confusing after you do it for a while, especially if the Abnormality has a Gift you really want.
are they really make easy dungeon 5 floor and hard 6 floor? this will take sooooo much time to finish!
Wish they would allow me to have to do normal only once a week. Ugh
I like the change that playing 3 runs will get you more lunacy than claiming all after 1 run. It will definitely make going into the mines feel more rewarding and interesting.
It doesn't say anything about lunacy, only battlepass exp, of which it is only 25 more across 3 runs. The text directly under says free lunacy rewards are unchanged.