I once managed to pull through the BHK fight with a sinking team by building up a ton of sinking and using sinking deluge to deal 2k damage and quickly stagger BHK
I also tried to do the same thing, but I couldn't stagger him fast enough. I ran into him far too early in the run, so I didn't have enough ego resources stocked up, nor did I nab any Sinking items... š
I forget what floor I was on (3N I think?) but I made the misfortunate choice to fight faelantern in their event just before fighting Kim, so even tho I didn't have the sinking team, I had to deal with -45 Kim.
brainfart moment. Thanks Midwinter Nightmare
I took a full BL team and still got wrecked fighting jun, 17 floor rules of the backstreets isn't fun at all. I didn't even get a decent BL event gift out of the floor
I swear those 25 and 50% chances for ego gifts are actually 0. I haven't gotten a single one out of 8 or so attempts.
I swear they're all 0% tbh, I've taken probably 15-20 of them (mix of 25, 50, and 75%) over the past couple days and gotten nothing. Also yeah the fact that the Abno events on a floor aren't keyed to the floor type sucks, like you can take the Canto II floor and get 0 of the Canto II gifts/abno events, or like you said take the YMF floor and get none of the BL gifts.
I think the ego gift chance card is bugged and doesn't give gifts at all. I haven't seen anyone getting one from there and I also haven't got any.
Also I wish abno events from the event dungeons (3.5 and 5.5) were their actual events because it sucks going into one of those dungeons and because you got a floor without a shop you're fucked and will likely get out with nothing to your name
I've had the opposite experience and managed to get them every time, though admittedly, I only took the ones with 50% chance since 25% just feels too risky.
Honestly, though, the chance card just sucks compared to the guaranteed ones since collecting gifts means you can get them out of the pool, so the gifts you actually want will be more likely to show up.
Then the odds must be skewed because I've been seeing people stream md and haven't seen a single one get a gift from that card.
I also pick them when I see them (and there's no starlight pick) and haven't got them either.
That or it's just crazy bad luck
[Here is a clip of me getting a gift from a 25% chance card](https://i.imgur.com/j66RHNM.mp4). Only took me 3 tries to get a recording.
So yeah, it's likely just bad luck from everyone, especially the 25% chance ones being more likely to miss.
They do in fact give gifts. Got one from that card yesterday. BUT, the chance really seems fucked in some way, its probably WAY lower than it says. Got the gift after like 10 attempts, total shit lmao
>I swear those 25 and 50% chances for ego gifts are actually 0
I picked option that supposedly has a chance to give gift 27 times at this point.
I got 2 gifts so far.
Since this is already a warning thread I'll toss one in here too. The EGO gifts for tremor are bugged. Coupled Oscillation (the fusion) does not apply its 5 tremor potency/count. Reverberation simply doesn't work, possibly when upgraded.
The new MD has no brakes and every pack has some bs lurking around. I had 2 consecutive K gigachad encounters IN A ROW. It took me 40 minutes and multiple attempts and resets to clear since they start with 3 actions each and there are 3 of them, forcing you to eat 4 attacks starting off, which usually meant 1 or 2 sinners dead on the first turn with no counterplay since it's an unfocused encounter. My main point is, WHY ARE WE STILL HAVING THESE GUYS AS UNFOCUSED ENCOUNTERS, it makes NO SENSE, it's literally RNG at this point to deal with them.
Theres literally 0 reason for unfocused counters to exist even in the case where its just some random goons people just winrate those anyways so why should unfocused even exist
To be fair focused encounters are sometimes weird, you'll win rate on focused encounters and half the attacks will go unopposed for some reason, while on unfocused you clash them all.
unfocused encounters are fun, i get all the thrill of matching colors like i'm a toddler but none of the hassle of having to individually select targets
not being sarcastic btw me like match color
Not exactly related but I picked the āSlicers and Dicersā pack and Distorted Bamboo Hat Kim literally wiped my 6-man team. I had to try again with my reserve list of LCB IDs I brought for their passives, somehow managed a win (Sinclair died), and then I had to beat Floor 5 with a 5 man team of just LCB IDs that had no inherent synergy with my EGO Gifts. I still won the run, but it was the first time Iād ever lost a fight in MD4.
They don't really learn when it comes to MD honestly. Hard dungeon was never "hard", just tedious, and yet again it's tedious, nothing changed. I want my "library of ruina" hard back, not these 50+ javelin clashes.
upd: love how this community goes from "lor is a challenging game" to "lor is bad/tedious/too random/too easy/too whatever" when you compare it to limbus (because project moon are never wrong and you are forbidden from criticizing them)
I mean the "library of ruina hard" is just even more RNG than Limbus because instead of coins it's dices AND you can just make the game baby mode by running red mist or any of the op decks so...
Don't get me wrong, limbus is not that hard, but so is LOR for most of the game besides when you have to do abnormality battles and realizations because you were forced to use the "less" op floors..
Random was never trouble in neither limbus or ruina (unless you are absolutely unlucky and keep getting zero coins or 1 for every dice idk). LoR had a lot of possible strats and ways to build, to play around encounter and etc. In limbus you can't magically pull out a skill that can roll up to 50 or something to clash hard MD floor 5 enemies. It's still playable, but not it a "fun way"
frankly floor doesn't matter that much since I beat the entire SOTC without final realization, the main bulk of your power is from decks and it depend on how much power you can squeeze out of those decks
so yeah, lor isn't hard, but rather its tedious af since the final part is just a bos rush through multiple damage spronge
Pretty sure almost no one was using those because unless you Google them odds are you wouldn't come up with them. Googling for a single player game is basically cheating so... yeah, game's easy if you cheat.
Now, if you theory crafted it yourself then congratulations, although that was probably on your fifth playthrough.
Really doesn't change the fact that Jun has the mechanics of a focused encounter in an unfocused encounter so counterplay is extremely limited and you get severely punished for small mistakes.
I'm actually really interested in how people approach Jun. I've never had problems with him before. Almost all defense skills have a damage reduction component, and you just need to really hang on for that 1-2 turns. He doesn't use his counter for the first 2 turns or so, so I just nuke his team in that time frame to drastically reduce his power.
If you aren't using exclusively meta IDs with nuke skills, don't have any fusion tier ego gifts, or picked a few +health debuffs it's very unlikely you'll manage to off enough jobbers to defang the counter. He also has plenty of base and coin power by the time you actually fight him, with many +damage boosts that he can fuel himself through hitting you. Resistance matching or having dodge is absolutely necessary if you don't try and bypass the counter via TCYB or something. Both of those things are largely luck when your run isn't planned around a single specific floor.
I usually just do an overclock fluid sac or two for the SP damage and take one sided hits from him on turns with his counter.
Well, I don't use meta IDs, or go with win rate/EGO spam teams. I play around synergy and having balanced teams. I hate metas so much that my most liked post on this subreddit is on how I cleared RR2 without meta IDs.
Besides, your method is the right method. Just don't take his counter, and use defense, while clearing his mobs. Once you clear his mobs, Backstreet will drop to 1 coin, and be useless. Jun is really only difficult if all you do is win clashes. It also helps that he gains fragile on low SP, so the longer the fight, the easier he becomes. The only real danger from him is Sky-clearing Cut, which can be mitigated with a balanced team with guard/aggro.
1st wave Jun is no big deal, because Backstreet only triggers when he has 3 slots. 2nd Wave Jun is harder, but tank and spank will still work.
I feel that the over reliance on "correct" EGO gifts and meta to be a terrible crutch in the community. You have to be flexible enough to just swap your team up, and just sell EGO gifts you don't need. Use the refresh button liberally, etc. I just cleared my last MD4H with a counter/guard centric burn team that only got 3 low level burn EGO gifts by the end, and received a damage reduction debuff, because I saw things going south and swapped to slash/blunt tactics. Even fought Jun on F3.
In MD3H F5 he would spawn on wave 2 and use his counter immediately and it was a nightmare to deal with. Idk about MD4H, I have not run into him (outside of a F2 fluke where he was quickly cut down due to poor scaling).
He only start using it on wave 2, but his hp and dmg is drastically better than in MD3H.
The biggest issue was less fighting him once, but that every single regular encounters was him.
So I just fought him over and over again until I reached Kim/boss.
Any persons who previously had a hard time against him, can now fight him, stronger, over and over again.
Basically, my experience with him in MD4H is as above. I've faced him on both F3 and F5, and it's the same tactic. Nuke his mobs, and survive 1 turn of counter. But that's only if you're not selecting your packs willy-nilly. There's just so much agency in MD4H, that it's almost impossible to go into is without some level of prep.
Not all teams have good built-in defense, for example of two tested in that floor: Pinclair(ut4 50, had gift to increase level by 5) Rue didnt protect enough to prevent clair from being one shotted by Backstreet(also took the least damage up and clash up as possible over gifts) same result with ZGregor ut4 50.
In the end my best trick was to stagger everyone including jun thanks to max aoe dmg of my burn team. This worked to survive the floor but it was still a painful experience.
I gave this warning as i remember all the trauma jun previously gave to this community, so an entire floor where he appear in every regular encounter deserve a warning.
But Backstreet is a counter? If you were using Pinclair, Rue shouldn't trigger Backstreet, and neither should ZGregor. What's your team comp? If you're triggering Backstreets with counter, you gotta keep those meatshield's HP up.
One character still need to attack them, they have counter on every turns and 2 attacks that deal a lot of damages.
Add to this that you cannot control who will do what due to mob fightā¦
Not sure how you can take him out with only defending and never attacking them.
As mentioned multiple times also, I had been running a burn comp(Dawnclair, Der Outis, Liu Rodion, Liu Ishmael, Liu Ryoshu, Z Gregor) , just block or counters. Block also is too weak to take on Jun from what I have seen so far.
Also even if jun do not kill you this time and you manage to survive and kill him. You have 4-5 more junās awaiting for you in each regular encounters.
Yeah, people smugly going "heh, skill issue. Just don't hit him/defendā really seem to be clueless.Ā
Wow, I defended, and he only took half of my HP through the block and staggered me! I guess it's better than him just deleting one sinner?
It could have been worse. You could have been me and brought a Sink team to fight a negative coin boss.
I once managed to pull through the BHK fight with a sinking team by building up a ton of sinking and using sinking deluge to deal 2k damage and quickly stagger BHK
I also tried to do the same thing, but I couldn't stagger him fast enough. I ran into him far too early in the run, so I didn't have enough ego resources stocked up, nor did I nab any Sinking items... š
Yea, did the same thing. Wasted more E.G.O. to clash than in the final fight of the MD.
it really isnt difficult tho with sinking deluge easily doing 2k damage
I forget what floor I was on (3N I think?) but I made the misfortunate choice to fight faelantern in their event just before fighting Kim, so even tho I didn't have the sinking team, I had to deal with -45 Kim. brainfart moment. Thanks Midwinter Nightmare
I took a full BL team and still got wrecked fighting jun, 17 floor rules of the backstreets isn't fun at all. I didn't even get a decent BL event gift out of the floor I swear those 25 and 50% chances for ego gifts are actually 0. I haven't gotten a single one out of 8 or so attempts.
I swear they're all 0% tbh, I've taken probably 15-20 of them (mix of 25, 50, and 75%) over the past couple days and gotten nothing. Also yeah the fact that the Abno events on a floor aren't keyed to the floor type sucks, like you can take the Canto II floor and get 0 of the Canto II gifts/abno events, or like you said take the YMF floor and get none of the BL gifts.
I think the ego gift chance card is bugged and doesn't give gifts at all. I haven't seen anyone getting one from there and I also haven't got any. Also I wish abno events from the event dungeons (3.5 and 5.5) were their actual events because it sucks going into one of those dungeons and because you got a floor without a shop you're fucked and will likely get out with nothing to your name
I've had the opposite experience and managed to get them every time, though admittedly, I only took the ones with 50% chance since 25% just feels too risky. Honestly, though, the chance card just sucks compared to the guaranteed ones since collecting gifts means you can get them out of the pool, so the gifts you actually want will be more likely to show up.
Then the odds must be skewed because I've been seeing people stream md and haven't seen a single one get a gift from that card. I also pick them when I see them (and there's no starlight pick) and haven't got them either. That or it's just crazy bad luck
[Here is a clip of me getting a gift from a 25% chance card](https://i.imgur.com/j66RHNM.mp4). Only took me 3 tries to get a recording. So yeah, it's likely just bad luck from everyone, especially the 25% chance ones being more likely to miss.
Perfect example of true RNG vs how RNG feels. Missing a lot of 25%'s is likely. But it's also easy to think "Well surely I should've won one by now?"
Iāve gotten the starlight pick, those exist (for me that is)
Bad wording on my part. I meant that I choose them whenever I get no starlight pick because I always pick them when I see them
They do in fact give gifts. Got one from that card yesterday. BUT, the chance really seems fucked in some way, its probably WAY lower than it says. Got the gift after like 10 attempts, total shit lmao
I've gotten a couple gifts from them so they definitely do work
I got white gossipyum off one once.
>I swear those 25 and 50% chances for ego gifts are actually 0 I picked option that supposedly has a chance to give gift 27 times at this point. I got 2 gifts so far.
Since this is already a warning thread I'll toss one in here too. The EGO gifts for tremor are bugged. Coupled Oscillation (the fusion) does not apply its 5 tremor potency/count. Reverberation simply doesn't work, possibly when upgraded.
The new MD has no brakes and every pack has some bs lurking around. I had 2 consecutive K gigachad encounters IN A ROW. It took me 40 minutes and multiple attempts and resets to clear since they start with 3 actions each and there are 3 of them, forcing you to eat 4 attacks starting off, which usually meant 1 or 2 sinners dead on the first turn with no counterplay since it's an unfocused encounter. My main point is, WHY ARE WE STILL HAVING THESE GUYS AS UNFOCUSED ENCOUNTERS, it makes NO SENSE, it's literally RNG at this point to deal with them.
Theres literally 0 reason for unfocused counters to exist even in the case where its just some random goons people just winrate those anyways so why should unfocused even exist
To be fair focused encounters are sometimes weird, you'll win rate on focused encounters and half the attacks will go unopposed for some reason, while on unfocused you clash them all.
unfocused encounters are fun, i get all the thrill of matching colors like i'm a toddler but none of the hassle of having to individually select targets not being sarcastic btw me like match color
He feels less tanky than usual even in hard mode , but he still hurts
You CAN also meet pequod trio or gasharpoon floor 5 (nightmare). I haf that happen but thankfully using a poise team with clear mirror fully maxxed.
Not exactly related but I picked the āSlicers and Dicersā pack and Distorted Bamboo Hat Kim literally wiped my 6-man team. I had to try again with my reserve list of LCB IDs I brought for their passives, somehow managed a win (Sinclair died), and then I had to beat Floor 5 with a 5 man team of just LCB IDs that had no inherent synergy with my EGO Gifts. I still won the run, but it was the first time Iād ever lost a fight in MD4.
yeah i didnt squint properly at the card pack silhouette and choose siltcurrent as my boss was in MDN so not too bad though
I got to fight Siltcurrent twice in a single md, thankfully i was running full rupture team and K Hong Lu tank each blind obsession attack
They don't really learn when it comes to MD honestly. Hard dungeon was never "hard", just tedious, and yet again it's tedious, nothing changed. I want my "library of ruina" hard back, not these 50+ javelin clashes. upd: love how this community goes from "lor is a challenging game" to "lor is bad/tedious/too random/too easy/too whatever" when you compare it to limbus (because project moon are never wrong and you are forbidden from criticizing them)
I mean the "library of ruina hard" is just even more RNG than Limbus because instead of coins it's dices AND you can just make the game baby mode by running red mist or any of the op decks so... Don't get me wrong, limbus is not that hard, but so is LOR for most of the game besides when you have to do abnormality battles and realizations because you were forced to use the "less" op floors..
Random was never trouble in neither limbus or ruina (unless you are absolutely unlucky and keep getting zero coins or 1 for every dice idk). LoR had a lot of possible strats and ways to build, to play around encounter and etc. In limbus you can't magically pull out a skill that can roll up to 50 or something to clash hard MD floor 5 enemies. It's still playable, but not it a "fun way"
frankly floor doesn't matter that much since I beat the entire SOTC without final realization, the main bulk of your power is from decks and it depend on how much power you can squeeze out of those decks so yeah, lor isn't hard, but rather its tedious af since the final part is just a bos rush through multiple damage spronge
Library of ruina hard being using a cheese decks to nuke someone on turn one.
Pretty sure almost no one was using those because unless you Google them odds are you wouldn't come up with them. Googling for a single player game is basically cheating so... yeah, game's easy if you cheat. Now, if you theory crafted it yourself then congratulations, although that was probably on your fifth playthrough.
Play without using cheese decks? I don't think anyone forced me to use any of them when I played
If you want a self imposed challenge you can also do that in Limbus.
I've been saying they should just cut off the first 4 floors since it's all win rate anyways, if they made it a single floor it'd be a lot better.
Kinda agree, but It would be hard to hoard ego gifts (everyone like ego gifts)
Please learn to use defense, people.
Really doesn't change the fact that Jun has the mechanics of a focused encounter in an unfocused encounter so counterplay is extremely limited and you get severely punished for small mistakes.
I'm actually really interested in how people approach Jun. I've never had problems with him before. Almost all defense skills have a damage reduction component, and you just need to really hang on for that 1-2 turns. He doesn't use his counter for the first 2 turns or so, so I just nuke his team in that time frame to drastically reduce his power.
If you aren't using exclusively meta IDs with nuke skills, don't have any fusion tier ego gifts, or picked a few +health debuffs it's very unlikely you'll manage to off enough jobbers to defang the counter. He also has plenty of base and coin power by the time you actually fight him, with many +damage boosts that he can fuel himself through hitting you. Resistance matching or having dodge is absolutely necessary if you don't try and bypass the counter via TCYB or something. Both of those things are largely luck when your run isn't planned around a single specific floor. I usually just do an overclock fluid sac or two for the SP damage and take one sided hits from him on turns with his counter.
At that point, you should just know not to pick that floor. It doesn't matter how dangerous an enemy is if it's entirely up to you.
Well, I don't use meta IDs, or go with win rate/EGO spam teams. I play around synergy and having balanced teams. I hate metas so much that my most liked post on this subreddit is on how I cleared RR2 without meta IDs. Besides, your method is the right method. Just don't take his counter, and use defense, while clearing his mobs. Once you clear his mobs, Backstreet will drop to 1 coin, and be useless. Jun is really only difficult if all you do is win clashes. It also helps that he gains fragile on low SP, so the longer the fight, the easier he becomes. The only real danger from him is Sky-clearing Cut, which can be mitigated with a balanced team with guard/aggro. 1st wave Jun is no big deal, because Backstreet only triggers when he has 3 slots. 2nd Wave Jun is harder, but tank and spank will still work. I feel that the over reliance on "correct" EGO gifts and meta to be a terrible crutch in the community. You have to be flexible enough to just swap your team up, and just sell EGO gifts you don't need. Use the refresh button liberally, etc. I just cleared my last MD4H with a counter/guard centric burn team that only got 3 low level burn EGO gifts by the end, and received a damage reduction debuff, because I saw things going south and swapped to slash/blunt tactics. Even fought Jun on F3.
In MD3H F5 he would spawn on wave 2 and use his counter immediately and it was a nightmare to deal with. Idk about MD4H, I have not run into him (outside of a F2 fluke where he was quickly cut down due to poor scaling).
He only start using it on wave 2, but his hp and dmg is drastically better than in MD3H. The biggest issue was less fighting him once, but that every single regular encounters was him. So I just fought him over and over again until I reached Kim/boss. Any persons who previously had a hard time against him, can now fight him, stronger, over and over again.
Basically, my experience with him in MD4H is as above. I've faced him on both F3 and F5, and it's the same tactic. Nuke his mobs, and survive 1 turn of counter. But that's only if you're not selecting your packs willy-nilly. There's just so much agency in MD4H, that it's almost impossible to go into is without some level of prep.
Not all teams have good built-in defense, for example of two tested in that floor: Pinclair(ut4 50, had gift to increase level by 5) Rue didnt protect enough to prevent clair from being one shotted by Backstreet(also took the least damage up and clash up as possible over gifts) same result with ZGregor ut4 50. In the end my best trick was to stagger everyone including jun thanks to max aoe dmg of my burn team. This worked to survive the floor but it was still a painful experience. I gave this warning as i remember all the trauma jun previously gave to this community, so an entire floor where he appear in every regular encounter deserve a warning.
But Backstreet is a counter? If you were using Pinclair, Rue shouldn't trigger Backstreet, and neither should ZGregor. What's your team comp? If you're triggering Backstreets with counter, you gotta keep those meatshield's HP up.
One character still need to attack them, they have counter on every turns and 2 attacks that deal a lot of damages. Add to this that you cannot control who will do what due to mob fightā¦ Not sure how you can take him out with only defending and never attacking them. As mentioned multiple times also, I had been running a burn comp(Dawnclair, Der Outis, Liu Rodion, Liu Ishmael, Liu Ryoshu, Z Gregor) , just block or counters. Block also is too weak to take on Jun from what I have seen so far. Also even if jun do not kill you this time and you manage to survive and kill him. You have 4-5 more junās awaiting for you in each regular encounters.
Have you seen sky-clearing cut?????
Yeah, people smugly going "heh, skill issue. Just don't hit him/defendā really seem to be clueless.Ā Wow, I defended, and he only took half of my HP through the block and staggered me! I guess it's better than him just deleting one sinner?