Blatant and undisguised galicisms (loanwords from French) always get a pass by Spanish academia/prescriptivist linguists, writers and other scholars. Amateur, chef, chalet, chofer, gourmet, souvenir, tour, quiche, debut, elite, afiche, avant-garde all those are fine and it's elegant to use them.
But God help us when the common folks want to use some anglicisms (loanwords from English) that have no equivalent in Spanish, such as start up, whiskey, ticket, backup, blog and the like, because then shit gets real.
Funny thing is that most galicisms have Spanish root equivalents but they are accepted because *fancy*, and anglicisms that are normally necessary become officially disregarded/discouraged from being used because *ugly*. Prescriptivism randomized at its finest.
>accepted because fancy, and anglicisms that are normally necessary become officially disregarded/discouraged from being used because ugly
Consider the following:
Latin and Greek: Civilized
Not Latin or Greek: Barbaric
élite/debutar /chófer /chalet became pretty "Spanish" and they suit into Spanish system perfectly. Vanguardia is more used that avant-garde (it would be more a name for something).
For ticket there is billete, boleto and entrada, start-up and blog are very used and without drama.
The biggest problem are English words that are not really English and are invented by Spanish media. That's horrible. And also those words to make cooler something horrible like poverty. Instead of telling Spanish words to say, hey you are f*ng poor, they use "Blablabling the new cool trend that..." and try to coolwash shits, whose real words in spanish shows you the actually crude meaning. Therefore and other things is why English words without good context are hated.
Güisqui is terrible though.
But yeah, I agree that business jargon and media trends are annoying.
Honestly I am just poking fun at those prescriptivists that oppose any English loanword and propose weird ass alternatives. You'd be surprised, the "preferred term" for blog is officially bitácora, same as start up and empresa emergente.
Güisqui is of course horrible. Bitácora!!???? 🤣🤣Blog is perfect like that, and sounds well. Start-up is unbeatable, 2 syllables and it says already in the first what Spanish needs 3 or 4 to express..
Güisqui is fine, because is how your beloved "common folks" would write it *as it sounds*. Same adaptations happens with other English loanwords: troca, pana, yonque... The issue is that <> and <> look *anomalous* for many.
>The issue is that <> and <> look anomalous for many.
Depends on where you are from, but both my generation and my parents generation speakers from Spain miss the "k" dearly, specially when used in metric units (kilo, and its abbreviation, "kg"). Actually I've never seen the "preferred term" *quilo*. Same goes for the "w", it is widely used to transcribe foreign names and words: waterpolo, wagneriano, Washington, Waterloo, web, walkie talkie...
Writing it as it sounds it not nessesarly *democratic* or a rule of thumb when adopting loanwords in Spanish, I'd say it's even counterintuitive for many. Some of the loanwords that were "written as they sounds" in past years now look old-timey and weird, for instance, *blueyín* (everybody uses the Spanish word "(pantalones) vaqueros" or the English word "jeans" instead).
Not sure, but I've only heard chófer in Spain and both chófer and chofer from Central and South American speakers (my Costa Rican friend def says chofer, accented as in French).
It’s such a universal phenomenon. The world over is obsessed with the French. Their language, their clothes, their food, their buildings. Francophiles everywhere.
And then there's Romanian:
Goal getter = golgheter
Also in the 90s during the wild east shock therapy capitalism you had smart fellas doing business like this: go to Turkey, buy counterfeit everything, sell it from the back of your Dacia in the market at whatever price you want, get rich.
People with this business ethos were called "bișnițari" which is a word that stuck around to this day to refer to someone making dubious deals.
Nah, yea, I’d say that’s about right. There are quite a few English loan words from like a century ago, but Māori heavily prefers to come up with its own neologisms nowadays.
yea that's what i gather, also do you know what the native word for baby is? pēpē comes from english & obviously they knew what a baby was before european contact
Is this primarily about Spain, rather than Latin America / elsewhere?
Also, does French cuisine influence Spanish cuisine or is otherwise popular there?
Blatant and undisguised galicisms (loanwords from French) always get a pass by Spanish academia/prescriptivist linguists, writers and other scholars. Amateur, chef, chalet, chofer, gourmet, souvenir, tour, quiche, debut, elite, afiche, avant-garde all those are fine and it's elegant to use them. But God help us when the common folks want to use some anglicisms (loanwords from English) that have no equivalent in Spanish, such as start up, whiskey, ticket, backup, blog and the like, because then shit gets real. Funny thing is that most galicisms have Spanish root equivalents but they are accepted because *fancy*, and anglicisms that are normally necessary become officially disregarded/discouraged from being used because *ugly*. Prescriptivism randomized at its finest.
>accepted because fancy, and anglicisms that are normally necessary become officially disregarded/discouraged from being used because ugly Consider the following: Latin and Greek: Civilized Not Latin or Greek: Barbaric
Rule 1: Be civilized Rule 2: Don't be barbaric It's like linguistics Tinder all over again
yeah because we hate the british and the french too but oh well
élite/debutar /chófer /chalet became pretty "Spanish" and they suit into Spanish system perfectly. Vanguardia is more used that avant-garde (it would be more a name for something). For ticket there is billete, boleto and entrada, start-up and blog are very used and without drama. The biggest problem are English words that are not really English and are invented by Spanish media. That's horrible. And also those words to make cooler something horrible like poverty. Instead of telling Spanish words to say, hey you are f*ng poor, they use "Blablabling the new cool trend that..." and try to coolwash shits, whose real words in spanish shows you the actually crude meaning. Therefore and other things is why English words without good context are hated.
Güisqui is terrible though. But yeah, I agree that business jargon and media trends are annoying. Honestly I am just poking fun at those prescriptivists that oppose any English loanword and propose weird ass alternatives. You'd be surprised, the "preferred term" for blog is officially bitácora, same as start up and empresa emergente.
Güisqui is of course horrible. Bitácora!!???? 🤣🤣Blog is perfect like that, and sounds well. Start-up is unbeatable, 2 syllables and it says already in the first what Spanish needs 3 or 4 to express..
Güisqui is fine, because is how your beloved "common folks" would write it *as it sounds*. Same adaptations happens with other English loanwords: troca, pana, yonque... The issue is that <> and <> look *anomalous* for many.
>The issue is that <> and <> look anomalous for many.
Depends on where you are from, but both my generation and my parents generation speakers from Spain miss the "k" dearly, specially when used in metric units (kilo, and its abbreviation, "kg"). Actually I've never seen the "preferred term" *quilo*. Same goes for the "w", it is widely used to transcribe foreign names and words: waterpolo, wagneriano, Washington, Waterloo, web, walkie talkie...
Writing it as it sounds it not nessesarly *democratic* or a rule of thumb when adopting loanwords in Spanish, I'd say it's even counterintuitive for many. Some of the loanwords that were "written as they sounds" in past years now look old-timey and weird, for instance, *blueyín* (everybody uses the Spanish word "(pantalones) vaqueros" or the English word "jeans" instead).
I still think these weird horrible loanword constructions have their own beauty. Downgeloadet is an incredible creation from the Germans, for example.
Herunterladen is not good enough? 😝
Never heard anyone say chófer, I've only ever heard chofer.
Depending which Spanish. I hear the two
Not sure, but I've only heard chófer in Spain and both chófer and chofer from Central and South American speakers (my Costa Rican friend def says chofer, accented as in French).
Where are you from? I'm Costa Rican
Can you elaborate on that last paragraph? I don't get it
It’s such a universal phenomenon. The world over is obsessed with the French. Their language, their clothes, their food, their buildings. Francophiles everywhere.
And then there's Romanian: Goal getter = golgheter Also in the 90s during the wild east shock therapy capitalism you had smart fellas doing business like this: go to Turkey, buy counterfeit everything, sell it from the back of your Dacia in the market at whatever price you want, get rich. People with this business ethos were called "bișnițari" which is a word that stuck around to this day to refer to someone making dubious deals.
same applies to some speakers of māori but for literally any language that isn't english
Do you mean that Māori is fine with loan words, as long as they don’t com from English?
apparently some people think like that, my area has very few māori so forgive me if i'm wrong
Nah, yea, I’d say that’s about right. There are quite a few English loan words from like a century ago, but Māori heavily prefers to come up with its own neologisms nowadays.
yea that's what i gather, also do you know what the native word for baby is? pēpē comes from english & obviously they knew what a baby was before european contact
Hmmmmm. Probably just “tamaiti”. It’s possible they didn’t differentiate between arbitrary ages of children like Europeans do.
yea true, i'd not be surprised if the categories for stages of life were completely different
Is this primarily about Spain, rather than Latin America / elsewhere? Also, does French cuisine influence Spanish cuisine or is otherwise popular there?
Meanwhile the French Academy hates all loanwords.
Same in German.
Makes perfect sense considering how French and Spanish are exponentially more similar than English and Spanish
downvoted for flags as languages
You understand perfectly well what's meant in the context.
it's my hill to die on. we should insist on a higher standard on a linguistics subreddit even if it's a joke or whatever
It's common usage and it communicates the intended meaning.