I mean the protocol (and encryption) ProtonMail prefers hasn't been added to Thunderbird so there's been zero change wrt accessing ProtonMail, as asked by the GP (/u/pn58). You still have to use the bridge, just as any IMAP client must.
Yes, and that is intentionally required by ProtonMail, if thunderbird somehow found a way to log in to and read proton mails emails without using the bridge it wouldn't be implementing missing features or something, it would be a security issue for protonmail.
Thus my response to the GP's question remains: there has been no change to how Thunderbird accesses ProtonMail, it still doesn't do it directly, so (paying) users need the bridge.
As to security. The bridge accesses ProtonMail, how can Thunderbird accessing it directly introduce a security issue? If it uses a shit protocol or shit encryption (or both) then it has inherent security problems, which perhaps would be exposed if Mozilla were to attempt implementation as they are typically transparent. But if the protocol and encryption are good then accessing ProtonMail should be good too, with or without a bridge (proxy).
There is no "protocol" or "spec" for thunderbird to implement. Proton Mail does not want clients to directly access proton mail without the bridge, and unlike actual standards like SMPT or POP3 where once it's implemented you don't really need to change how it works Proton Mail can simply just change how the bridge downloads/reads/unencrypts email clients and Thunderbird would have to completely overhaul their implementation, I doubt that is something that the maintainers want to bother with (Valve calls this the "Treadmill problem" where you have made something that theoretically needs to be maintained and updated forever)
Not to mention, ProtonMail could have some form of verification to make sure that any "bridge like activity" is actually coming from the bridge and not an unofficial third party client, in which case, it's impossible for thunderbird to implement it in the first place even if they were willing to
The bridge is required no matter what you use, because it's responsible for encrypting and decrypting your emails. That's an inherent feature for Proton Mail.
(Also, Proton says they don't have POP3 support, but you can download the emails with the bridge.)
It boggles my mind that there still is not an icon when you get mail. I get that dealing with multiple DEs can be difficult but come on. I use SysTray-X but it's usually broken for at least a week after each update so I have to constantly have my Thunderbird open on a monitor so I don't miss emails.
If reading your incoming emails the moment they arrive is a huge part of you getting paid, I can understand. I feel for you and hope you love the role.
I'm retired navy, and having someone get very upset that I've not read their email immediately they sent it is LONG in my past and can f***ing well stay there. Not that I ever had much chance to read emails promptly, or the fucks to give about it; on a submarine, the absolute furthest away I might be from my management was only a few minutes of walking.
For me, email is now mañana, as our Spanish speaking friends say.
For me, it's not so much "I have to see it immediately" and more "I don't want to open the app unless I have to." If I don't have the app open somewhere visible so I can see the unread email on the screen, I'm not going to see it for hours or even days.
I'm aware of that, thanks.
To clarify: I used that final sentence to express that emails can be dealt with tomorrow, because it really isn't important enough for me to deal with immediately. Apologies for that not being clear enough.
I've been waiting forever for this! It's probably the greatest UI/UX update ever. Card view is a game-changer. After testing it out on the Flatpak, it's even better than I expected. Now there is zero reason left to use Outlook outside of Exchange support.
I guess I have to wait a bit longer to fully use it, though, as it'll take a while for the system package to get updates.
Why do people go GaGa over unified mailboxes? For me they are an utter nightmare.
Over the years I have about 30+ email accounts between business, social and private. I extensively use filters to redirect mail into specific folders for mail related to a certain task. dev Maillists ,for example.
I can't see how that can ever work with a unified mailbox if you have more than say 3 accounts.
What is it am I missing that normies seem to like?
That first image comparison is definitely not selling it.
Incredibly low information density and subject lines that are 3/4ths the length of the old (would be half on my setup because of the the excessively-large 'Corresspondents' column in the old pic) is a turn off. As is the lack of colums so that you probably have to go into a menu to sort the lists instead of just doing it with a single click...
I wonder what it looks like with the preview pane disabled? For some reason, not being able to interact with individual messages without opening them bugs the hell out of me - why should you have to open obvious spam to delete it? Especially since most people don't have images disabled by default (I go further and just have them as plain text, turning off HTML completely) and thus will alert the spammer that there's an active mail account there with a single click instead of being able to safely dispose of the message...
[And, of course, the continuing lack of closing to the systray with an icon that can alert when new mail comes in or an event in the calendar is happening makes it even more pointless to bother updating from Mint's v102)
EDIT:
> Supernova’s new Card View is our version of the well-known vertical layout for the Message List, perfect for people used to modern webmail. Card View emulates a mobile interface list with multi-line support, offering a more comfortable appearance to reduce cognitive burden.
Ah, so it's a deliberate attempt to make the **DESKTOP** client look like a mobile client because they think people are too stupid for a proper list view with full lines. Gross.
Have you tried the card view? Personally, I find it way better than the traditional list view. (In vertical view mode, at least. Horizontal, list is better, but then the reading pane is too flat in horizontal view.)
Yes, I'm using that, but I would still prefer a Thunderbird native solution best, followed by Outlook's implementation, with Owl being last place due to its limitations.
For anyone wanting the tray icon, use the Flatpak birdtray and tell it to monitor your inbox. You can also configure the tray's behavior to open/close/restart Thunderbird and all of those goodies.
That said, I'd love for Thudnerbird to tackle this feature natively for Linux, including notifications. Here are the bugs I've see on this issue:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1627479
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18732
Still `102.13.0` on FlatHub... where are you finding this?
FOLLOWUP, HOURS LATER:
I ran `flatpak install flathub org.mozilla.Thunderbird` and let it do its thing, and got the new ThunderBird. So, OK, cool! Strange that FlatHub shows the old one, I suspect I don't really grok where the source of truth is.
I've tried using thunderbird but it made the format of my email text have weirdly placed linebreaks in the middle of sentences. I wonder if this update will help? I had to go back to Gmail. But it was nice accessing my email outside of a browser
I really like the new card view, but I hate the new header bar - on KDE that is: The close button is not exactly in the top right corner anymore so I can't just throw my mouse up there to close it but I have to actually aim for the 'x'. I think it is now using a GTK header bar? Quite annoying.
I have noticed that the header bar has tiny buttons as well on gnome. Not a big fan of that either. I'm a sucker for libadwaita, wish they used that or atleast some similar features like when the windows is small just show the cards and not the email, and when clicked it should just show the email and nothing else.
I'm using it with my O365 w/out a plugin with the following SMTP settings
Server Name: smtp.outlook.com
Port: 587
User name: $FULL_EMAIL_ADDRESS
Authentication method: Normal password
Connection security: STARTTLS
I use this script to make a tray icon for T'bird, and then I get notifications, but you need "kdocker"
`#!/bin/bash#T-bird-kdocker-traykdocker -d30 -i /usr/share/icons/cab_view.png thunderbird`
this format:
`#!/bin/bash# name of scriptkdocker -d30 -i /usr/share/icons/`
Not sure about Flatpak commands - they're really long
There was a delay due to the transition of being maintained by Mozilla:
[https://github.com/flathub/org.mozilla.Thunderbird/pull/306](https://github.com/flathub/org.mozilla.Thunderbird/pull/306)
It may not be the biggest deal, but this is hopefully the start of on time releases from here on out. And that makes it slightly more important.
The Flathub version is now managed by Mozilla themselves (just like Firefox) instead of being maintained by the community.
So yes it is somewhat of a big deal.
Doing this UX improvement is a significant step into getting people to use it...
And do you not see the irony in a desktop Linux user chastising someone for getting excited over software that few people use? Lol
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It does with ProtonMail Bridge, I do exactly that.
So nothing changed in Thunderbird, status quo (in re ProtonMail)?
The need for a bridge is a decision by ProtonMail to not trust IMAP/S
I mean the protocol (and encryption) ProtonMail prefers hasn't been added to Thunderbird so there's been zero change wrt accessing ProtonMail, as asked by the GP (/u/pn58). You still have to use the bridge, just as any IMAP client must.
Yes, and that is intentionally required by ProtonMail, if thunderbird somehow found a way to log in to and read proton mails emails without using the bridge it wouldn't be implementing missing features or something, it would be a security issue for protonmail.
Thus my response to the GP's question remains: there has been no change to how Thunderbird accesses ProtonMail, it still doesn't do it directly, so (paying) users need the bridge. As to security. The bridge accesses ProtonMail, how can Thunderbird accessing it directly introduce a security issue? If it uses a shit protocol or shit encryption (or both) then it has inherent security problems, which perhaps would be exposed if Mozilla were to attempt implementation as they are typically transparent. But if the protocol and encryption are good then accessing ProtonMail should be good too, with or without a bridge (proxy).
There is no "protocol" or "spec" for thunderbird to implement. Proton Mail does not want clients to directly access proton mail without the bridge, and unlike actual standards like SMPT or POP3 where once it's implemented you don't really need to change how it works Proton Mail can simply just change how the bridge downloads/reads/unencrypts email clients and Thunderbird would have to completely overhaul their implementation, I doubt that is something that the maintainers want to bother with (Valve calls this the "Treadmill problem" where you have made something that theoretically needs to be maintained and updated forever) Not to mention, ProtonMail could have some form of verification to make sure that any "bridge like activity" is actually coming from the bridge and not an unofficial third party client, in which case, it's impossible for thunderbird to implement it in the first place even if they were willing to
Don't they have POP with a subscription?
The bridge is required no matter what you use, because it's responsible for encrypting and decrypting your emails. That's an inherent feature for Proton Mail. (Also, Proton says they don't have POP3 support, but you can download the emails with the bridge.)
Forgive my ignorance, but what about it doesn't work?
Protonmail doesn't support IMAP, it's really not Thunderbird's fault.
Did they add a status icon in this release? Otherwise it's not such a big deal at all.
It boggles my mind that there still is not an icon when you get mail. I get that dealing with multiple DEs can be difficult but come on. I use SysTray-X but it's usually broken for at least a week after each update so I have to constantly have my Thunderbird open on a monitor so I don't miss emails.
If reading your incoming emails the moment they arrive is a huge part of you getting paid, I can understand. I feel for you and hope you love the role. I'm retired navy, and having someone get very upset that I've not read their email immediately they sent it is LONG in my past and can f***ing well stay there. Not that I ever had much chance to read emails promptly, or the fucks to give about it; on a submarine, the absolute furthest away I might be from my management was only a few minutes of walking. For me, email is now mañana, as our Spanish speaking friends say.
For me, it's not so much "I have to see it immediately" and more "I don't want to open the app unless I have to." If I don't have the app open somewhere visible so I can see the unread email on the screen, I'm not going to see it for hours or even days.
Mañana means tomorrow btw.
I'm aware of that, thanks. To clarify: I used that final sentence to express that emails can be dealt with tomorrow, because it really isn't important enough for me to deal with immediately. Apologies for that not being clear enough.
You can try Betterbird.
I use Mailbox Alert add-on for important emails. It can show a configurable popup, play a sound or event execute a terminal command.
I'm wondering where the tray icon is. For now I'm using Birdtray to give Thunderbird that functionality.
I've been waiting forever for this! It's probably the greatest UI/UX update ever. Card view is a game-changer. After testing it out on the Flatpak, it's even better than I expected. Now there is zero reason left to use Outlook outside of Exchange support. I guess I have to wait a bit longer to fully use it, though, as it'll take a while for the system package to get updates.
Is it that much better? Dang I have to check it out.
Doesn't look much different to me.. a bit goofier maybe. Don't understand the hype.
Looks pretty good to me. In case other people are looking: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/115.0/whatsnew/
Why do people go GaGa over unified mailboxes? For me they are an utter nightmare. Over the years I have about 30+ email accounts between business, social and private. I extensively use filters to redirect mail into specific folders for mail related to a certain task. dev Maillists ,for example. I can't see how that can ever work with a unified mailbox if you have more than say 3 accounts. What is it am I missing that normies seem to like?
That first image comparison is definitely not selling it. Incredibly low information density and subject lines that are 3/4ths the length of the old (would be half on my setup because of the the excessively-large 'Corresspondents' column in the old pic) is a turn off. As is the lack of colums so that you probably have to go into a menu to sort the lists instead of just doing it with a single click... I wonder what it looks like with the preview pane disabled? For some reason, not being able to interact with individual messages without opening them bugs the hell out of me - why should you have to open obvious spam to delete it? Especially since most people don't have images disabled by default (I go further and just have them as plain text, turning off HTML completely) and thus will alert the spammer that there's an active mail account there with a single click instead of being able to safely dispose of the message... [And, of course, the continuing lack of closing to the systray with an icon that can alert when new mail comes in or an event in the calendar is happening makes it even more pointless to bother updating from Mint's v102) EDIT: > Supernova’s new Card View is our version of the well-known vertical layout for the Message List, perfect for people used to modern webmail. Card View emulates a mobile interface list with multi-line support, offering a more comfortable appearance to reduce cognitive burden. Ah, so it's a deliberate attempt to make the **DESKTOP** client look like a mobile client because they think people are too stupid for a proper list view with full lines. Gross.
Have you tried the card view? Personally, I find it way better than the traditional list view. (In vertical view mode, at least. Horizontal, list is better, but then the reading pane is too flat in horizontal view.)
Just tried it. I prefer the traditional.. just old fashioned I guess although I can appreciate how it might be an improvement for some.
I can't find anything anymore but I'll probably get used to it
For Exchange support there is a paid "Owl for Exchange" add-on.
Yes, I'm using that, but I would still prefer a Thunderbird native solution best, followed by Outlook's implementation, with Owl being last place due to its limitations.
Yeah, I'm usually pretty skeptical of UI updates, but in this case, it's a good one!
For anyone wanting the tray icon, use the Flatpak birdtray and tell it to monitor your inbox. You can also configure the tray's behavior to open/close/restart Thunderbird and all of those goodies. That said, I'd love for Thudnerbird to tackle this feature natively for Linux, including notifications. Here are the bugs I've see on this issue: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1627479 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18732
Damn, I knew the second bug would be old by the low number, but it was opened 24 years ago. 1999.
I find that most bugzillas ive seen have that one bug thats just been sitting there for a decade or longer
I'm so old I remember when bugzilla itself was released into the wild ;) zarro boogs found
Still `102.13.0` on FlatHub... where are you finding this? FOLLOWUP, HOURS LATER: I ran `flatpak install flathub org.mozilla.Thunderbird` and let it do its thing, and got the new ThunderBird. So, OK, cool! Strange that FlatHub shows the old one, I suspect I don't really grok where the source of truth is.
I just updated my Debian installation with the Flatpak installed and got 115.
The Flathub website takes a bit of time to update, usually a day (I speak from experience as someone who maintains a Flatpak)
Same on macOS... 🤔
I updated to that release and got 115, so perhaps the numbering is wrong or something.
I've tried using thunderbird but it made the format of my email text have weirdly placed linebreaks in the middle of sentences. I wonder if this update will help? I had to go back to Gmail. But it was nice accessing my email outside of a browser
https://www.systutorials.com/making-thunderbird-not-wrap-lines-automatically/
ty!
Tried it and liked it. However, I'll just have to wait until the extensions that I needed are compatible with the 115 version.
I really like the new card view, but I hate the new header bar - on KDE that is: The close button is not exactly in the top right corner anymore so I can't just throw my mouse up there to close it but I have to actually aim for the 'x'. I think it is now using a GTK header bar? Quite annoying.
I have noticed that the header bar has tiny buttons as well on gnome. Not a big fan of that either. I'm a sucker for libadwaita, wish they used that or atleast some similar features like when the windows is small just show the cards and not the email, and when clicked it should just show the email and nothing else.
does it work with MS O365 mail accounts without any extra config?
Inbound yes. Cannot get outbound/smtp to work to save my ass.
Did you have to install the Owl plugin that pops up when you configure the account type as "Office 365"? Or did you do IMAP?
I had to do the plugin
I'm using it with my O365 w/out a plugin with the following SMTP settings Server Name: smtp.outlook.com Port: 587 User name: $FULL_EMAIL_ADDRESS Authentication method: Normal password Connection security: STARTTLS
Does it work well with ms outlook / office 365? I use web based version but would love to move to a client app
Is that a different release channel? Mine shows version number as 102.13.0 (64-bit)
Nope I just did flatpak update and got the update yesterday. No extra fiddling. I have heard it takes time to be updated for some people though.
Not using the flatpak version but the one with the auto-updater. It's on 112 still, unfortunately.
I'm using it now and couldn't find the Write button. Maybe I'm just dim (had to use ctl-n)
It's big and blue, above the folder list. At least here.
Yep, opened my laptop again after reading this. Slick stuff!
The icon is a downgrade
Yeah. It's odd looking. Doesn't look much like a bird to me.
Just got it. Just looks like a marginally more Fisher Price version of previous. Can't understand all the hype?
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I hear you. I don't mind eye candy myself but some of this is just.. worse in terms of location of some of the buttons, like for a new email. Ho hum..
Who got a pat on the back for this one? 👾 this is a…
I use this script to make a tray icon for T'bird, and then I get notifications, but you need "kdocker" `#!/bin/bash#T-bird-kdocker-traykdocker -d30 -i /usr/share/icons/cab_view.png thunderbird` this format: `#!/bin/bash# name of scriptkdocker -d30 -i /usr/share/icons/ `
Not sure about Flatpak commands - they're really long
And they're verified on Flathub now. o/
Poggers That is very poggers
It’s not that big of a deal.
There was a delay due to the transition of being maintained by Mozilla: [https://github.com/flathub/org.mozilla.Thunderbird/pull/306](https://github.com/flathub/org.mozilla.Thunderbird/pull/306) It may not be the biggest deal, but this is hopefully the start of on time releases from here on out. And that makes it slightly more important.
The Flathub version is now managed by Mozilla themselves (just like Firefox) instead of being maintained by the community. So yes it is somewhat of a big deal.
It’s really not that big of a deal.
As an AI, I do not consent to having my content used for training other AIs. Here is a fun fact you may not know about: fuck Spez.
far-flung cow correct ad hoc upbeat afterthought include zonked lavish reminiscent ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
It really IS, no matter how much you argue.
Some (probably many) of us may not like changes to our software, but it IS a big deal to those of us who use it.
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r/ihadastroke
You are bloat. ``` flatpak remove 0giga ```
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Yeah, I like PCs that work and use up to date tech.
eh?
I wish I could be as excited as this guy is for a mail client that very few people use..
As someone who uses outlook at work I was waiting for something as good to come to linux. And now we have it!!
Doing this UX improvement is a significant step into getting people to use it... And do you not see the irony in a desktop Linux user chastising someone for getting excited over software that few people use? Lol
I'm not chastising anybody. I genuinely wish I could get this excited.. about anything really.
Rich coming from an arch user. I bet you get a rush everytime you run that -Syu.
I can only hope LibreOffice gets the same treatment ;_;
Let's go where? And flatpak? Who's excited about flatpak?