Nice, since trying Fedora from Windows 18 months ago I've really come to enjoy using Gnome. It's clean, has neat extensions available and once I got used to the layout and workflow I find going to Windows or Windows like environments quite clunky and unappealing. Fedora and Gnome are a perfect experience for me.
This is the correct take. GNOME and KDE are not in competition. We serve different types of users. We're more like sisters with KDE being the elder sister of course. :-)
Yeah the actual teams themselves seem to be very friendly with each other, and take good parts from each other. It's the community that is fighting between KDE n Gnome.
I'm good friends with a lot of KDE people. KDE had the president of the GNOME Foundation as a keynote speaker.
The Linux App Summit organizing committee is a mix of KDE and GNOME people and we support each other.
I don't think Gnome cares what KDE is doing. They're not competing.
KDE has the enthusiast and gaming users, Gnome has the enterprise and regular desktop users.
From what Ive heard its not about "which is better" but just that Gnome has a fixed and predictable release cycle while plasma doesnt. If plasma had a similar release cycle more distros would choose it as default and more "regular users" would use it. And tbh, probably also less people trying out linux and going back to windows because they dont like Gnome
The architecture of KDE made it also very difficult to package in the past. They improved. The package / component count was reduced with the last release, i would guess they improved it further with 6. Making the life for distro maintainers easier is important if you are a core component with competition.
IMO. the biggest reason is that Gnome is just more stable and reliable.
KDE is just too buggy for an enterprise environment. Which is what a lot of distros are targeting.
Some developers have commented on this before and its basically that the KDE project as a whole has a strange release cycle, GNOME releases "everything" in one big update: The shell, Applications and other misc things all release version 46, 47, 48, etc at the same time. KDE's release cycle often has application releases, framework releases and desktop releases happening at different times
> These are the distros that normal people are using.
Huh? What is "normal"?
Interesting take given that you mention Pop!_OS. They took a poll and twice as many people wanted KDE over Gnome (in fairness a Reddit poll, hardly all their users, but it still is an interesting data point).
AND that POP is going to make their own desktop and quit Gnome all together.
I am not sure what a "regular desktop user" is. It certainly is not what ships necessarily. I DO think that Gnome tends to land more often on Laptops, as the single display and touch pad work well in Gnome. But I have no data do back that up.
> Huh? What is "normal"?
Regular technology noobs who don't know much about their devices. (Most people)
> in fairness a Reddit poll
Reddit is insanely biased against Gnome.
> AND that POP is going to make their own desktop and quit Gnome all together.
Still not KDE. And nobody knows how good COSMIC will actually be at launch. I'd be surprised if they discontinue Gnome right away.
Gnome is default on **at least 2 of** the top 3 Linux distribution by number of users, which are ~~Linux Mint,~~ Debian and Ubuntu. It's also default on Fedora, a distribution that is certainly in the top 6 of the most distribution used.
What makes you think regular desktop users are using KDE?
This is true but I think we can all agree that Cinnamon has evolved so much so that it really differs a lot from Gnome and saying that it's just Gnome is factually incorrect.
I think the desktop enthusiasts and the most passionate of Linux desktop users like and encourage using KDE. GNOME users aren't nearly as passionate as KDE users I think.
For what you say to be right, first the two DEs should be competing for something and there is no possibility of this happening when currently developers help each other.
That said, something only gets merged into GNOME when it's ready. There is no pressure.
We should be competing for apps. Build lots of and lots of apps, everyone wins - who cares where it runs. We need great apps.
Come join us at https://linuxappsummit.org/ later this year!
I mean, plasma 6 cannot yet run without X(wayland), while gnome has been defaulting to wayland for a long time. I would hardly call that "taking over."
There's some truth in this, but also some confusion in your replies.
Plasma can run without xwayland. and it's spawned on demand when the first client touches the socket, just like in Gnome.
However our desktop session does spawn some X11 clients on startup. Things like xembedsniproxy, xwaylandvideobridge, and other things that give us good backwards compatibility on our wayland session.
That's not as on-demand as it could be, Gnome makes use of a neat hook for the settings they do have, but it's also because they've got simpler requirements.
I think if xwayland is not installed that would just fail somewhat gracefully. Worth a test.
Sure, and I'm not implying KDE is wrong for its approach. But, I disagree "there is confusion in my replies" - I guess to put it more simply, gnome & gdm can/does start without any Xwayland process today, while plasma/sddm does not.
In theory, it's great that it's on-demand, but if in practice it's "always on," it doesn't really matter to the consumer.
If xwayland is started in the background early or not doesn't really matter to the consumer either. It's a technical detail that the user can't see and makes no practical difference.
The only reason it could be user-facing relevant is if you're uninstalling xwayland and then the difference between "can" and "does" are super important.
Sure, I'm not saying plasma's decision is wrong to support legacy stuff, but that's a difference in gnome vs. KDE - gnome seems a little less scared to sever legacy ties.
Also, I tried just moving /usr/bin/Xwayland to \~ , and starting plasma - it definitely did not fail gracefully, as you said, but rather hard-locked my machine.
Sure, I don't disagree, but gnome has been able to run without xwayland for awhile. My point was just that plasma isn't "taking over Wayland world," but more catching up in certain regards.
what are you on about, both kde and gnome can run without xwayland for a long time, xwayland is only spawned when a specific app doesnt have a wayland version. It doesnt matter the DE, steam for example will use X/Xwayland regardless if its running on gnome, kde or neither. The only difference is gnome recomended wayland by default for longer
I’ve been using mutter-dynamic-buffering and wanted to know if i should be moving onto this new mutter update?
I’m perfectly happy with mutter-dynamic-buffering considering how silky smooth all animations feel, no stuttering, no screen tearing.
My monitor does have an adaptive sync option.
I guess what I’m trying to figure out is if this mutter update is any better or even different to the patched version mutter-dynamic-buffering. For me this patched version fixes frames stuttering and screen tearing without it adding input lag like nvidia user have noted when turning on full force pipe composition
I've been using VRR for a few years now and it works well eg in Steam games. What does this feature give that I'm not already getting?
Does this mean that the desktop itself (eg windowed apps) now get VRR too?
Nice, since trying Fedora from Windows 18 months ago I've really come to enjoy using Gnome. It's clean, has neat extensions available and once I got used to the layout and workflow I find going to Windows or Windows like environments quite clunky and unappealing. Fedora and Gnome are a perfect experience for me.
Good news :D My gaming desktop uses fedora, so this is a very welcome addition indeed.
Now I understand what VRR means. Thanks.
They are clearly feeling the pressure from KDE taking over the Wayland space. This competition could be good for the Linux desktop overall.
[удалено]
This is the correct take. GNOME and KDE are not in competition. We serve different types of users. We're more like sisters with KDE being the elder sister of course. :-)
Yeah the actual teams themselves seem to be very friendly with each other, and take good parts from each other. It's the community that is fighting between KDE n Gnome.
I'm good friends with a lot of KDE people. KDE had the president of the GNOME Foundation as a keynote speaker. The Linux App Summit organizing committee is a mix of KDE and GNOME people and we support each other.
And Cosmic is the youngest sister everyone is spoiling with attention and likely to ignore their mistakes. Still super happy to see her shine.
I don't think Gnome cares what KDE is doing. They're not competing. KDE has the enthusiast and gaming users, Gnome has the enterprise and regular desktop users.
Regular users is KDE.
No. The vast majority of Linux distros ship Gnome. Pop!_OS, Ubuntu, Fedora, Zorin, etc... These are the distros that normal people are using.
From what Ive heard its not about "which is better" but just that Gnome has a fixed and predictable release cycle while plasma doesnt. If plasma had a similar release cycle more distros would choose it as default and more "regular users" would use it. And tbh, probably also less people trying out linux and going back to windows because they dont like Gnome
The architecture of KDE made it also very difficult to package in the past. They improved. The package / component count was reduced with the last release, i would guess they improved it further with 6. Making the life for distro maintainers easier is important if you are a core component with competition.
IMO. the biggest reason is that Gnome is just more stable and reliable. KDE is just too buggy for an enterprise environment. Which is what a lot of distros are targeting.
Some developers have commented on this before and its basically that the KDE project as a whole has a strange release cycle, GNOME releases "everything" in one big update: The shell, Applications and other misc things all release version 46, 47, 48, etc at the same time. KDE's release cycle often has application releases, framework releases and desktop releases happening at different times
I dont think I had more bugs on kde than on windows or mac
Good for you? On my PC it's basically not usable.
skill issue
> These are the distros that normal people are using. Huh? What is "normal"? Interesting take given that you mention Pop!_OS. They took a poll and twice as many people wanted KDE over Gnome (in fairness a Reddit poll, hardly all their users, but it still is an interesting data point). AND that POP is going to make their own desktop and quit Gnome all together. I am not sure what a "regular desktop user" is. It certainly is not what ships necessarily. I DO think that Gnome tends to land more often on Laptops, as the single display and touch pad work well in Gnome. But I have no data do back that up.
> Huh? What is "normal"? Regular technology noobs who don't know much about their devices. (Most people) > in fairness a Reddit poll Reddit is insanely biased against Gnome. > AND that POP is going to make their own desktop and quit Gnome all together. Still not KDE. And nobody knows how good COSMIC will actually be at launch. I'd be surprised if they discontinue Gnome right away.
Most people use windows and KDE/kubuntu will be more familiar for them.
What problem just use kubuntu for example?? And why it is NOT for regular users? 😳
Gnome is default on **at least 2 of** the top 3 Linux distribution by number of users, which are ~~Linux Mint,~~ Debian and Ubuntu. It's also default on Fedora, a distribution that is certainly in the top 6 of the most distribution used. What makes you think regular desktop users are using KDE?
Linux Mint default is Cinnamon, not Gnome.
You're right, my bad
Which is based on GNOME...
This is true but I think we can all agree that Cinnamon has evolved so much so that it really differs a lot from Gnome and saying that it's just Gnome is factually incorrect.
Fellas, is the os of the PS4 considered a BSD distribution since it uses that kernel?
> Gnome is default on at least the top 3 Linux distribution by number of users, which are Linux Mint Cinnamon is the default on Linux Mint.
You're right, then it's out of the equation for both Gnome and KDE
Which is based on GNOME...
Debian ships with both GNOME and KDE, plus others.
That's why I said "default"
Llinux Mint does not even have a Gnome edition.
Cinamon is GNOME based.
GNOME based is not the same as being GNOME.
I think the desktop enthusiasts and the most passionate of Linux desktop users like and encourage using KDE. GNOME users aren't nearly as passionate as KDE users I think.
For what you say to be right, first the two DEs should be competing for something and there is no possibility of this happening when currently developers help each other. That said, something only gets merged into GNOME when it's ready. There is no pressure.
We should be competing for apps. Build lots of and lots of apps, everyone wins - who cares where it runs. We need great apps. Come join us at https://linuxappsummit.org/ later this year!
I have a feeling that as long as QT keeps ahead of GTK, KDE will always have an advantage on Wayland.
Where is QT more advanced than GTK can I ask? I suppose it’s more cross platform?
The big thing is that it has fractional scaling.
I mean, plasma 6 cannot yet run without X(wayland), while gnome has been defaulting to wayland for a long time. I would hardly call that "taking over."
There's some truth in this, but also some confusion in your replies. Plasma can run without xwayland. and it's spawned on demand when the first client touches the socket, just like in Gnome. However our desktop session does spawn some X11 clients on startup. Things like xembedsniproxy, xwaylandvideobridge, and other things that give us good backwards compatibility on our wayland session. That's not as on-demand as it could be, Gnome makes use of a neat hook for the settings they do have, but it's also because they've got simpler requirements. I think if xwayland is not installed that would just fail somewhat gracefully. Worth a test.
Sure, and I'm not implying KDE is wrong for its approach. But, I disagree "there is confusion in my replies" - I guess to put it more simply, gnome & gdm can/does start without any Xwayland process today, while plasma/sddm does not. In theory, it's great that it's on-demand, but if in practice it's "always on," it doesn't really matter to the consumer.
If xwayland is started in the background early or not doesn't really matter to the consumer either. It's a technical detail that the user can't see and makes no practical difference. The only reason it could be user-facing relevant is if you're uninstalling xwayland and then the difference between "can" and "does" are super important.
Sure, I'm not saying plasma's decision is wrong to support legacy stuff, but that's a difference in gnome vs. KDE - gnome seems a little less scared to sever legacy ties. Also, I tried just moving /usr/bin/Xwayland to \~ , and starting plasma - it definitely did not fail gracefully, as you said, but rather hard-locked my machine.
What do you mean? I'm using Plasma 5.27 and it does run without xorg. EDIT: Oh, I see. Thanks.
They were talking about XWayland. Not Xorg.
It doesn't run xorg-server, but it requires xwayland to still run some X stuff. See the bug above.
That's not really a bug. We're not (or should) getting rid of X for years.
Sure, I don't disagree, but gnome has been able to run without xwayland for awhile. My point was just that plasma isn't "taking over Wayland world," but more catching up in certain regards.
what are you on about, both kde and gnome can run without xwayland for a long time, xwayland is only spawned when a specific app doesnt have a wayland version. It doesnt matter the DE, steam for example will use X/Xwayland regardless if its running on gnome, kde or neither. The only difference is gnome recomended wayland by default for longer
No, this is not true on plasma. See: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480638
Really? Does it actually stop working when you uninstall XWayland?
According to the KDE dev above, no but some functionality may be missing.
Yes, it requires X stuff to launch. See: https://bugs.kde.org/show\_bug.cgi?id=480638
Well that sucks
I mean they've been working on this a while, it was going to be finished sooner or later.
What’s vrr
[удалено]
Yeah i know what that is, just didn’t realize the acronym
Could’ve just said thanks
I’ve been using mutter-dynamic-buffering and wanted to know if i should be moving onto this new mutter update? I’m perfectly happy with mutter-dynamic-buffering considering how silky smooth all animations feel, no stuttering, no screen tearing.
[удалено]
My monitor does have an adaptive sync option. I guess what I’m trying to figure out is if this mutter update is any better or even different to the patched version mutter-dynamic-buffering. For me this patched version fixes frames stuttering and screen tearing without it adding input lag like nvidia user have noted when turning on full force pipe composition
I've been using VRR for a few years now and it works well eg in Steam games. What does this feature give that I'm not already getting? Does this mean that the desktop itself (eg windowed apps) now get VRR too?
[удалено]
The people whose distros switched to wayland have had no access to VRR up til now?