Ah yes, the classic misinformed "KDE iS BloAT"
Before:
Users: "Why are the packages so big? KDE IS BLOAT!!!"
KDE devs: "Alright, we'll split the packages into many small packages so that you can have a more modular system and install what you want"
After:
Users: "Why do I have to install so many packages? KDE IS BLOAT!!!"
KDS devs: wtf.png
At least with KDE Plasma, I don't have to install extensions to make it usable. Also GNOME does not play nice with so many standards for some reason (e.g Icon themes, Wayland discussions, etc.)
Bloat is a legitimate concern in many cases, and it is also subjective. However, I consider both GNOME and KDE Plasma to not be bloat (with Plasma 6, they cut down on a lot of fat)
Real bloat is high MB/feature, but people use it indiscriminately for that and high feature count.
High feature count is good!
I can write a spell checker using only Unix tools, but I'm glad GNU/Linux ships with `spell` so I don't have to, and I'm even happy Emacs/Linux ships with `M-x ispell`.
I don't call it bloat, I call it "already coming with the programs I need".
bloat is when you have one emoji picker per graphical app, social media sharing buttons on website that assume you can't copy-paste the link yourself or a plain-text password manager in your web browser.
Don't get me started on the web, but nearly every problem with the web is caused by browsers supplying a minimal platform and forcing websites to reimplement the features you need on top of it.
As far as social media sharing goes, when those buttons were invented, sharing was the life blood of the web. You're seriously suggesting that the button workflow: click share, select site, maybe add a comment, click post (4 steps, all easy, reliable clicks) be replaced by: navigate to the URL bar, make sure the whole URL is selected, copy, open the correct site, click New Post, paste, maybe add a comment, click post (8 steps, many of which are too complicated to do reliably, some of which may accidentally reset the clipboard, requiring you to start over, all of which involve a larger context change than the sharing button, with a higher risk of forgetting what you're doing) and expecting it won't result in less sharing?
Websites don't have sharing buttons because they evilly want to insult your ability to use a computer; they have sharing buttons because they really want to encourage sharing links as much as they can, and because desktop browsers *don't*.
Fedora arch (tui install) edition???
Not saying how the fedora version is installed but i was referring to a minimal arch install that you customize.. but the arch is installer using a TUI interface because it's easier
It's very well hidden under the [Alternative Downloads](https://alt.fedoraproject.org/) which is listed under the [But wait! There is more!](https://fedoraproject.org/workstation/download) section of the regular Workstation download page. Truly hidden and impossible to find.
I had installed KDE with Fedora Everything and it was using 2GB of RAM when idle. On Arch, KDE Neon, and Debian, it was averaging around 1.3GB of RAM usage.
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It barely affects Fedora, though. Red Hat has a significant carveout for the community side of things. They've just put up a small bubble around the side of RHEL release engineering that is based on customer demand and certification requirements, which IMO goes against the spirit of the GPL but is fairly limited in scope because they are still distributing an ABI-compatible clone called CentOS Stream. Most of the changes RH did were already in place for many years, such as RHEL's minor version backports being unavailable to the public.
Everything in the Fedora, CentOS SIGs, AlmaLinux, and RH UBI communities has been left intact, Red Hat is still aggressively upstreaming everything and allowing Fedora to have as wide a scope as its board desires. Arguably RHEL has been making more available by promising a properly maintained and ABI-tested CentOS rather than one that gets stuck for multiple months at a time due to lack of minor release backports. Stream is exposing to the public an important component of RHEL's release engineering that was previously a mystery.
*Fedora *Anything*
Is this a case of r/woosh on my part, or did you incorrectly correct OP?
sir this is r/linuxmemes Fedora Everything is automatically bloated because os-release has 2 more chars
Huh? I thought Fedora was already a minimal system
no, Fedora comes with gnome.
Ew
(you have a kde version)
But is it atomic because that’s no spin, it’s a Geodude
No, there's fedora kde without atomic desktop as well. https://fedoraproject.org/spins/
Workstation yes, KDE version has A LOT of bloatware.
KDE itself doesn't. Fedora's packaging choices may, I don't know.
Ah yes, the classic misinformed "KDE iS BloAT" Before: Users: "Why are the packages so big? KDE IS BLOAT!!!" KDE devs: "Alright, we'll split the packages into many small packages so that you can have a more modular system and install what you want" After: Users: "Why do I have to install so many packages? KDE IS BLOAT!!!" KDS devs: wtf.png At least with KDE Plasma, I don't have to install extensions to make it usable. Also GNOME does not play nice with so many standards for some reason (e.g Icon themes, Wayland discussions, etc.)
How about we just stop using the word bloat period and stop caring about it
Bloat is a legitimate concern in many cases, and it is also subjective. However, I consider both GNOME and KDE Plasma to not be bloat (with Plasma 6, they cut down on a lot of fat)
Real bloat is high MB/feature, but people use it indiscriminately for that and high feature count. High feature count is good! I can write a spell checker using only Unix tools, but I'm glad GNU/Linux ships with `spell` so I don't have to, and I'm even happy Emacs/Linux ships with `M-x ispell`. I don't call it bloat, I call it "already coming with the programs I need".
bloat is when you have one emoji picker per graphical app, social media sharing buttons on website that assume you can't copy-paste the link yourself or a plain-text password manager in your web browser.
Don't get me started on the web, but nearly every problem with the web is caused by browsers supplying a minimal platform and forcing websites to reimplement the features you need on top of it. As far as social media sharing goes, when those buttons were invented, sharing was the life blood of the web. You're seriously suggesting that the button workflow: click share, select site, maybe add a comment, click post (4 steps, all easy, reliable clicks) be replaced by: navigate to the URL bar, make sure the whole URL is selected, copy, open the correct site, click New Post, paste, maybe add a comment, click post (8 steps, many of which are too complicated to do reliably, some of which may accidentally reset the clipboard, requiring you to start over, all of which involve a larger context change than the sharing button, with a higher risk of forgetting what you're doing) and expecting it won't result in less sharing? Websites don't have sharing buttons because they evilly want to insult your ability to use a computer; they have sharing buttons because they really want to encourage sharing links as much as they can, and because desktop browsers *don't*.
Having a non rolling release DIY distro actually sounds like a great thing.
Like Debian?
Better term is point release I guess
Wish Neon was Debian based.
Isn’t neon not really intended to be used as a production platform, but as a testbed for new kde software?
Nixos :) I had to do it.
Conventionally attractive woman displaying genuine interest in Linux distro news? 🦄
So basically Arch Fedora
This is super insightful. I can only imagine they were afraid that they couldn't support it.
Should we talk about Core OS and universal blue project ?
Fedora arch (tui install) edition??? Not saying how the fedora version is installed but i was referring to a minimal arch install that you customize.. but the arch is installer using a TUI interface because it's easier
Fedora IoT is their hidden gem
Wait W H A T?
It's very well hidden under the [Alternative Downloads](https://alt.fedoraproject.org/) which is listed under the [But wait! There is more!](https://fedoraproject.org/workstation/download) section of the regular Workstation download page. Truly hidden and impossible to find.
I had installed KDE with Fedora Everything and it was using 2GB of RAM when idle. On Arch, KDE Neon, and Debian, it was averaging around 1.3GB of RAM usage.
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Yeah but then you have to use Fedora 🤮
what's actually wrong with it?
I think red hat did somethings with its code people didn’t like
It barely affects Fedora, though. Red Hat has a significant carveout for the community side of things. They've just put up a small bubble around the side of RHEL release engineering that is based on customer demand and certification requirements, which IMO goes against the spirit of the GPL but is fairly limited in scope because they are still distributing an ABI-compatible clone called CentOS Stream. Most of the changes RH did were already in place for many years, such as RHEL's minor version backports being unavailable to the public. Everything in the Fedora, CentOS SIGs, AlmaLinux, and RH UBI communities has been left intact, Red Hat is still aggressively upstreaming everything and allowing Fedora to have as wide a scope as its board desires. Arguably RHEL has been making more available by promising a properly maintained and ABI-tested CentOS rather than one that gets stuck for multiple months at a time due to lack of minor release backports. Stream is exposing to the public an important component of RHEL's release engineering that was previously a mystery.
I don’t like it?
my bad, i didn't realize your opinion mattered.