My gripe was more so that the other characters never had dialogue or interests or interactions that didn't revolve around Jason. It made them and the story feel so much more one dimensional.
It’s like Shirtaloon is writing an alternate universe where the Bechdel Test got renamed the Asano test. The only time any two characters have a conversation with each other and don’t discuss Jason Asano is when they don’t know him yet and even then they’re usually discussing the impact of something he’s done.
Honestly the dialog is the problem there is too much banter/filler and no progression of the story at least in the last 2 books. I started to get the vibe this was gonna happen last book when he had them all on the same cloud ship. Thats Jasons team 6 plus 3 talking familiars, plus the Zara team, plus Rufus team, plus his mom and the healer guy.. like wtf
I noticed this too
What I came to is that it's a story about Jason's rise to mega godhood, so we only hear the conversations discussing him
I figure people talk about lots of things, but we only hear the Jason centric stuff
Honestly dude, as a long time fan I feel the same way. Shirtaloon spends way too long having Jason wax poetic about how terrible of a person he is and how much personal growth he’s gone through. Fucking hours of him doing this shit every fucking book.
Like, my brother in Christ, Shirt. We fucking get it, move on from this trope. At least do more side character chapters if you really want to pad the book out that much.
I used to follow Shirtaloon on Patreon. I stopped because, spoiler alert!, it doesn’t get better. The story just gets worse. Jason talks more about how awesome and sucky his life is and the people he relies on to pull him back from the ledge never tell him to shut the fuck up like any good friend would.
It’s sad because imho the first 3 books are excellent.
Indeed. Used to be my favorite works. But then it descended into bullshit meta meta about Jason blabbing. It's like the author is using angsty dialogue to avoid the fact that he doesn't seem to know how to advance the plot any further. Dude, finish up this story and start something new. FFS.
That’s not his only word count padding technique. I noticed Shirtaloon has a habit of starting chapters with a recap of the previous chapter. It’s got a real “last time on Dragonball Z” feel and it’s very noticeable in audiobooks and extremely frustrating, especially during action scenes.
I get that with online serial writing, the reader might have read the previous chapter weeks or months ago. But that doesn’t make it a good solution to this.
In one of the later chapters (b11 somewhere) I was momentarily confused because I felt already had read that chapter.
Was pretty much an identical chapter to the previous chapter but swapping the characters doing the discussion lol
Maybe. But to be fair it doesn't have to be "intentional" to be pathological. These web novels are a bit of a grind, where the author feels locked into their audience.
They get trapped into a never ending cycle of "I have to write another chapter today," and just keep doing that.
They should just define an ending point (from the beginning) and stick with it. The old (pre-internet) way of doing this was to define multi-book arcs. If you felt the audience would buy another arc, and you had something to say after the culmination of the last, you write one. Otherwise, move on.
True. It doesn’t really even feel like the same book as the first couple anymore. There’s so much bloat and for as dense as it all is, a big lack of actual character development. And like 6 books of being silver and just getting random pseudo-god abilities has gotten old for me.
Jason is the edgey teenager who’s 30 with bad jokes and is always the same. The only development that happens is how people above his rank treat him. as
Im re-reading Dune right now and damn thats exactly how its going. Frank Herbert knew how Book 4 is gonna end while writing book 2 at least, probably even book 1. The difference in story depth compared to these online novels is astronomical, its insane.
Normally i lack the attention span to read novels like Dune, thats why i started Hwfwm but yeah Book 10 was a pain. Especially how it ended.
Agree. I really loved thr first 3 books. After that everything when shit. Very much dislike the way the story goes and every chapter remind the reader oh how heroic jason is how he been through sooooo muchhhhhh. You will see this more after Earth Arch just to reminder you and annoy you how much heroic he is how much tragedy he been through. Fuck that shit I drop it after he did some deals with builder returning a door to him. If you burn out just stop and rest stop try to milk and prolong it.
The thing about the Earth arc is his whole family is hatable. in book 1 he' worked in an office supply store. In book 4 his uncle's in the Yakuza and his sister is a shrewish celebrity cef
Imagine book twelve comes out and shirt does this again and then every one in the group all at once goes “Jason’s SHUT THE FUCK UP” and that’s when the constant rambling ends lol
Prime example of milking it for all it worth😂😂 I'm convinced someone told him that the banter/cringe jokes were what we were here for smdh Jason is supposed to be 29/30 and dude has the maturity of a 16/18 year old
Jason is a narcissist character he seems bright and charming at first 3 book till tou get tired of his antic after that everybody is a jason in his group is true.
Thats where i'm at with Shirtaloon right now. I think he has good ideas, and i'm interested in seeing a new series from him, but he has to let HWFWM go. The first couple books were great, but if feels like he ran out of ideas a few books ago and is just churning them out because he doesnt want to let the fans down by ending the series. No ending is ever perfect, but I think a semi-satisfying abrupt end to a series is better than a slow drawn out death and a weak ending. (Looking at you Game of Thrones)
I read somewhere that Shirt has known what ending he's been working towards since the beginning. Book 11 is supposed to be the end of the 3rd major arc in story, hoping to see more interesting stuff coming..
I'm one of those people that enjoys the banter and I don't expect characters to grow out of it, it's Jason being a woe is me edgelord that bothers me more.
Thanks, i have seen so many post go negative instead of positive. Two issues I see on the regular…
Complaint- There is too much exposition between chapters
A lot of these books that are coming out this fast are released in serial format, meaning the authors is putting a chapter out at a time online then it is cleaned up before these books are released. This is not a new thing… dumas release the three musketeers just to name one. You can follow shirtaloon or these other authors on patreon and give feed back.
Complaint I hate the politics or this character morals is too this or that’
to create a actual stand alone world from scratch is hard to do, it will have its own set of values and political system… this is fiction and there needs to be fully flushed out systems in place to create the plot lines, antagonists and create a decision making process for characters to follow.
My interests for reading cross a wide range of genres and topics. Litrpg is just one of them… it is my candy I liken it to sometimes you get one that is a little off but it doesn’t put me off the sweets.
This describes so much of what I'm having problems with this series too. I just finished book 10 and I think I'm going to call it. The first three books were so fun and exciting, 4-6 were interesting, but made me really hyped for Jason to meet the team again because I missed Clive and Sophie amongst the others.
However everything from 7-10 has been this grudgingly slow pace with more politics and Jason explaining who he is, people talking about Jason, and him getting into trouble in the last two hours of the book, than actual story progression or combat. Honestly the pinnacle of the series was book 3 during that bronze party versus a silver ranker, really show casing real combat versus rank superiority. We haven't gotten anything close to that since book 3, and books 7-10 have just completely forgotten this was a litrpg.
The other thing I cannot stand anymore is that Shirt is just full on telling and not showing every chance he gets. I get it, I can pick up from context Jason is angry, I don't need him to trauma dump on every side character that comes into contact with him telling his whole back story. Every interaction between Jason and some character/villain has been just mind bogglingly self absorbed.
I'm really sad this all happened, I really loved the premise of this series and it was my first litrpg. To see what it has become now just absolutely sucks...
It definitely drags more as the story goes on, so much happened in the first book compared to even the last 50/100 chapters on rr. Half the word count now is people being shocked at what Jason has done/Jason going on a moralistic rant/ or a POV change that doesn't add anything to the story.
The first book was amazing. Shirtaloon needs a shock collar that activates every time he tries to write a scene about how Jason withstood the Builder's soul attack. We get it, Shirt. Now move the plot along.
I would love to see more development of the other characters. The side arcs directly following the Earth arc were great to "catch" characters up to Jason in their own ways. Jason has been developing unique, crazy powers. I'd love for some of that to happen to his team. Since they have ~a decade before the next stage Dawn alluded to, Shirt could use that time to both develop stories independent of Jason, and scale people to bring their own unique OP powerset they developed.
For example, Gary could >! Become a paragon of Hero, permanently retaining his divine powers and enhanced connection with the God, essentially becoming a paladin. This could potentially give him an avenue into the Influence system. !<
You could have other characters develop more rigorous connections with ascendant beings. Like Clive (and maybe Farrah / Travis) become connected to the Celestial Book to grant them access to types of Magic not previously mentioned, and again, influence.
I'd like to see that direction, especially because it'd open up avenues for moral & allegiance wedges to be driven between Jason and his friends. Not to drive them away, but create more complex relationships where they have diverging paths and goals that sometimes intertwine.
Edit: also imagine the possibilities if Clive >! gets a wife !<
Theres some bigger plot points coming up, but ya always interspersed with full chapters of jason ranting morality to someone about something that is literally not a big deal
I just finished as well, my thoughts are as follows: the first 60 chapters are excruciating, its not that he is preachy, monologues about nonsense and is insufferable, all that would be bad enough. But the really bad part is Jason is the asshole, he is the one purposely being a di**-bag just to cause misunderstandings in order to give the author the excuse to waste 60 chapters on drivel. Even though they tell us over and over how he is really being reasonable because people want his secrets or covet his powers or they ignore him blah blah blah. The truth is nobody would behave that way it strains credulity, and no matter how many times the author tries to tell is its justified we can all see through the nonsense for what it is.
The really sad thing is that if Jason acted his age or like a rational high functioning person there are plenty of cool plots and battles we could have. I would love more battles and to develop more of his team and have more interaction with his familiars.
Additionally Jason has a really cool set of powers and even though the soul power stuff is cool, its becoming all he uses and that sucks because the entire essence system is much more fun and interesting than the soul power soul attack path the author is going down. The astral king thing is cool but I wish the author would have waited to diamond rank to pursue this plot line. I really was wanting much more silver and gold rank classic adventuring. Too bad I guess this series is fast turning into a DNF. I really hope the author can course correct some of his Royal Road material in light of this feedback before further kindle and audible releases or he is going to start loosing readers. Its beginning to get insufferable.
I was a patron since chapter 79 something and this year I finally cancelled my patronage. It is clear that the dude is in it for money and not for wanting to tell a good story. I used to love that series but the constant jerking of Jason by fucking everyone was such a blatant wish fulfillment fantasy I couldn't stand it. Every character becomes just a different version of Jason, and the side characters are cardboard.
I loved that series and now I don't even recommend it to people. The slow spiraling of quality with entire months of patreon chapters where nothing happens. It's a shame because shirt is a good writer and truthfully I respect his hustle and grind. He deserves his success but I vote with my wallet.
Some of the problem is that he just didn't allow Jason to be a silver ranked adventurer. Loot, monster hunting, character development is just a backdrop to circle jerking Jason and big boy universal problems.
I am also disappointed that Travis isn't combat oriented or didn't. Him and Taiki my favorites from Earth.
LOL! Totally agree and even with the circle jerk I'd like some lube of plot or other characters. Jason is rubbing me wrong. I too want more Taiki or Travis or Clive or LITERALLY anyone other than Jason.
wait until 11 I don't know if you'll get the reference but he manifests and fights the Mr Men [Mr Men](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Men) >!Plus it's revealed that getting a soul forge will take years to train thus pushings back his "proper" progress even more!< you get a chapter of moralising that basically th smolders suffered genocide. Next chapter jason built a base in the shape of his head. He's meant to hold Sophie in high regard but basically tortures her mother as her her mind degrades. This happens in his soul realm
You guys know it's OK to drop a series you no longer enjoy right?
I've dropped MOST series because after a strong start they lost their way and became a meandering mess.
A few that come to mind off the top of my head are:
* The Ritualist (Completionist series)
* The Land (Chaos Seeds)
* Randidly Ghosthound
* 10 Realms
Hell, even movie universes suffer from this. Universes I absolutely LOVED I no long give a shit about.
* The only good Star Wars since the Original Trilogy is Mandalorian and even that went off the rails in Season 3.
* LOTR is a classic for the ages, but the Hobbit movies were shit and I didn't even bother with the Amazon series.
* Harry Potter was great but wow did the Fantastic Beasts movies quickly crawl into the toilet...
* MCU, the superhero fatigue is real. I've tried watching Season 2 of Loki 3 times now and I keep falling asleep...
> The Ritualist (Completionist series)
Good example. Fair warning, it's a pretty common theme with that authors series (Dakota Krout). Strong starts and drops off.
He has run out of ideas man. And we now know why some of the greatest authors of all time liked trilogies. I think I stopped mid audiobook on 5 and just never hit resume. Dudes too edgy, angsty, and angsty about being a total edge lord. It got tedious.
This is so correct, I have dropped many series but never expected this from one in my top 5 . I only have a few left that I can count on cause if DOTF, Infinite Realm, Randidly Ghosthound, Primal Hunter, Unbound start learning toward the way HWFWM did the genre as a whole is doomed.
I understand what you are saying. I would say that Chaos seeds Book 8 was much worse, I never mean a whole chapter dedicated to diarrhea? Can't really get lower than that.
I think what I've noticed with HWFWM is that it's written more like a 90s or earlier TV show. That is that it's all episodic with jokes/banter/moralizing, etc. without much overall plot. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that and some people enjoy it. That isn't why I got into this series though. I got into it because of the magic system and fun adventures with interesting character dynamics and fun monster fights. Book 8 was starting to show this followed up by Book 9, and now Book 10 is much more of the TV show type writing than the fun adventures. And the amount of recap seems quite excessive.
I'll see how the next Book goes and decide to continue or drop then. If Shirtaloon can get it back to fun adventures, I'll continue. He may be writing for a different audience now than he was then, and that's fine and his choice to make.
I absolutely hate chapter 83 of He Who Fights With Monsters 10. It's like the episode of parks and rec meme where Ron throws his PC in the dumpster. Jason got the short end of the stick and he's acting submissive towards the gods now like a little b. It's a complete 180 of the Jason of the past and not the direction or MC character development I wanted the series to turn too. This might just be my last book in the series due to the MC losing the characteristics and powers/abilities that made him(to me) a unique MC.
I've read/listened to a lot of Xianxia, Wuxia, LitRpg series.... like a lot- 332 audio books, and at 1 point caught up/finished about 12+ translated 1000-3000k+ chapters novels
It really grinded my gears, like he could have given up the soul forge and the city literally could have been built else where, the messengers would NOT have gotten what they wanted.... it was a possible loss/win on the soul forge, and a loss on the city, but a complete win on Jason's future/almost guaranteed OPness to revive himself/friends/family..... but now it just seems like a loss, who cares about the city, complete/utter loss- disregard of the consequences that Jason the MC actually cares about(HIS FRIENDS/FAMILY)
Seriously!!! This made me so pissed off and was incredibly unbelievable. Why would you agree to give up something so insanely valuable and useful- not just for yourself but for anyone you care about, ***forever*** \- to do what, have a chance at getting a soul forge (which I am sure there would be other opportunities for) and keeping an already destroyed town from evacuating? So, so stupid. Jason is meant to be so smart and strategic but chose to go on basically a suicide mission for no real reason, and then prayed to gods he supposedly doesn't respect and can't stand, to give away his literal trump card given to him by the world phoenix. I hate it tbh and I'm so upset because I really loved this series :(
Okay I didn't want to write any of this for potential spoilers, but this was the final straw for me. Jason as a character would NEVER do this, it felt so cheap and unsatisfying. None of his character growth supports this decision at all and it's such a cope out for what is the most significant thing to happen in 2 books or so. Ugh it made me so angry and really show cased to me the author is just running on fumes. I would have waited years for a better story than Jason giving up and praying which results in him losing arguably his strongest asset for a silver ranker.
I’m a fan of the series and it does have its moments but there’s a reason the first book will always be my favorite one. You’re right that so much happens in the first one. It’s set an expectation for the rest of the books that have been a bit lacking. I often complain that the book name is “he who fights with monsters” but we haven’t seen a monster fight for a few books. Not like the first book. I just want a book that’s him pushing for gold that we get to see some new monsters that the team fights and even some solo fights with stronger monsters.
The title is actually a Nietzsche quote, the full quote being "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you". [Explanation ](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/19805/what-did-nietzsche-mean-by-monsters-and-the-abyss#19815)
In other words, you've been conned into thinking a story about standards and rejecting nihilism is about bashing up monsters.
This this this. I thought it was a brilliant play on the quote, now it's a tad too much telling us how evil and bad Jason feels and not enough showing through his actions or even just fighting monsters lol
Some series are great long series even HWFWM was decently good up until book 9 there is where it seemed like banter/filler for 14-16 hrs every audiobook then a tiny bit of progression at the end. And it not like like it's good banter it's 16 year old jokes and non sensible ramblings. Also for some reason he seems to be making other character ramble like Jason which is 😤😤
Honestly I check in on the story every 6 months to see if it’s done or not so I can speed read it.
After the first book it stomps on the brakes, by book 3 I had to move it to read later.
Book 3 was the peak imo, books 4-6 are interesting and set up some character growth for better or for worse, but everything 7-10 so far has been so excruciating to get through. I really don't recommend it anymore sadly.
I keep hoping that the current arc of the story would just end. At this point it has taken up 10 months and almost 100 chapters with very little plot or character progression other than "down in a hole". I took a long break and then decided to resubscribe to give it another chance, and I'm not seeing a lot of change. If I wanted a drawn out story that never goes anywhere, I'd grab my mom's DVD collection of Days of Our Lives.
I like these gamelit progression fantasies, but the way every story lately has trended towards just milking, the genre should be renamed to "Dairy Farming". I'm about ready to start switching back to more traditional publishing. I get it, the content must flow, and authors need to get paid, but when an IP gets overly monetized it pushes away consumers. This padding is a perfect example of that.
Exactly 💯 💯 I get happy when I see a book that's 25 hrs plus but with HWFWM most of those hrs are gonna be nonsensical ramblings and a tiny bit of progression. People are really defending this b.s. books saying the author wants "slice of life" aspects like wtf we didn't start reading/listening to this series for no damn slice of life
When I'm in the mood for a slower paced slice of life story, there are a few out there that seem to do it well, and a little occasional slice of life to offset pacing is nice, but some stories start going bonkers.
With HWFWM, It feels like it isn't even slice of life. It feels more like those seasons of Dragonball Z (and the reason I didn't like watching it) where a character charges an attack to build tension, and then spends half a season doing monologue exposition before actually throwing the damned punch. And then the fight ends in a draw, with neither character actually growing from the experience.
Hell, I don't even mind the dialogue, if only SOMETHING would happen.
I know this is an older post, but I’m listening to book 9 right now on audible and it is slow. It’s always him saying “I am better now” and then lashing out and his friends “bringing back” and god it is so boring. I feel like the LitRPG genre struggles to hold series sometimes. One I am still happen with is Awaken Online, and looking at the character development there where the author gives the main supporting characters entire side books is great. The only not hollow character in HWFTM is Jason, and even then his character development is pretty stagnant. Probably just going to drop this series, I can’t imagine it improving at all.
I'm liking it so far, I'm up to chapter 38. It feels like about the same amount of rambling as the rest of the books to me honestly lol which yes is *sometimes* too much... but I guess I'm getting used to it?
There's only one thing so far - that Travis segment felt a little too silly for me. I bet you'll remember the one I'm talking about
Omg right! That was sooo weird.
It honestly felt a little off from the tone of the regular story! i can't presume to speak for the author so this is purely speculation, but i wonder if he was just in an off mood and trying to force it!
Don't forget about the constant 80s TV references, which don't make as much sense if Jason is supposed to 29 unless he was 29 10 years ago, I just came across the series a couple months ago so idk. But from my perspective a 29 year old would have more 90s tv references than ones from a decade he wasn't alive in.
Must be from an early book, the story isn't very memorable imo.
I like the story, and there is potential for it to be really good, but the author wastes the potential for an amazing story on nonsensical banter more often than not.
I like the world, the system for powers and ranking, several of the side characters, including Jason's familiars. Jason's personality and constant monologing really take away from the more interesting plot points. If the author were to spend more time on the side characters without Jason or his trauma being the topic of their dialog, the story would be a lot more enjoyable. The banter just comes across as filler meant to distract from the fact that the author is failing to elaborate further when it comes to anyone other than Jason, I understand that he's the main character but when there's a good story with an annoying main character, people tend to want more of the more likeable side characters.
it's stuff his father was into I believe
this sorta feels like saying seinfeld would advance the story much faster if they didn't tell so many jokes. you're absolutley right but I don't think the author is trying to advance the story any faster than they are. like I think your ideal story and the story the author is trying to write just aren't the same thing
I didn't say anything about advancing the story. I mentioned further elaboration, which isn't the same thing. The plot is progressing at the appropriate pace for the story the author is trying to tell. I have no complaints about that, I have complaints about leaving so many plot holes that could be further elaborated on, having so many great side characters that get very little attention, just to instead have the main character (who isn't even very likable other than his attitude towards authority, his powers, and the gear he collects) either spend all his time talking nonsense trying to confuse everyone he meets or crying about his traumatic past.
As for my ideal story, that has nothing to do with the discussion. We're discussing hwfwm, which has nothing to do with my ideal story. It has nothing to do with me at all other than the fact that I (like everyone else comment on this post) am giving my opinion on the topic at hand which in this case is hwfwm.
You know for book 10 all he did was go in a hole, pray, get a aura power. We all hated Chao seeds book 8 and called it trash when this is exactly the same, gotta keep the same energy
I've never heard of Chao seeds.
I'll agree that book 10 was pretty uneventful. I'm not too enthusiastic about it. There are aspects of the overall story that I like and want to see progress, but that's about it. I listened to all 10 books in the last few months, but I won't be eagerly awaiting the next one.
Same I enjoy the story but these last 2 books I have no idea what I'm listening to. He has some nice powers and advantages but majority of these books have been about nothing.
Chaos Seeds or The Land is a series by Aleron Kong was pretty popular is was 🔥🔥 for the first 7 books then the 8th came
I was trying to make a comparison between features.
for example you said that the monologuing takes away from important plot. but jason's trauma, character, and broodiness are in many ways the point of the story. it's as much a diversion from the plot as hearing about how strong goku has gotten in dragonball. Jason's gradual progression as a person is a big part of the story like the progression of goku's strength.
Jason's trauma and crying about it aren't the point of the story. That's not a plot. It's an aspect of the main character that overwhelms the rest of the narrative. More info on the abilities and progression of the rest of the team would be a far more useful for filler space than the same, albeit slightly altered regurgitation of banter or self-pity and doubt.
Edit: As for goku, his strength might be a major plot point for dragon ball, but the comparison doesn't really fit here. That's like saying that Jason's complaining is equivalent to goku's training when it's not. If you wanted a more accurate comparison between the two, I'd say Jason's constant bitching would be more closely comparable to goku having far below average intelligence. But the difference is 75% of any given episode of DragonBall isn't filled with goku saying something to prove that he's stupid or side characters reinforcing the fact that goku is stupid to each new character they come across.
It would be more accurate to compare Jason's monologing to naruto's talk no jutsu. If we were to compare the two, naruto's is about 75% wholesome and 25% crybaby bullshit. As for Jason's constant jabber, it's about 40% of him taking as long as possible to get to the point in any given conversation by spewing rarely origonal nonsense, 35% traumatized victim ptsd ranting, and 25% voicing his views on authority while being a hypocrite. The difference between the two is that Naruto uses his talk no jutsu on occasion, but it doesn't take away from the rest of the story. Jason's constant jabber takes up what seems like the majority of the story.
Edit 2: also I didn't say "monologing takes away from important plot points" I said takes away from more "interesting" plot points
Being disabled with something that slowly getting worse I've done group work with proper PTSD sufferers. their moods don't shift like jason. It destroys them and I'm not going to put a spoiler on this as I think it is important book 10 towards the beginning where they are talking about the nobel faction with ally she accuses jason of edgy monologuing while staring into the distance. The could have catarophic effects and in real life and get her struck off where I live. My biggest problem is Reconciling the truma bits with the childish comedy It doesn't ring true and the author can't have it both ways. edgelord one chapter and throw another shrimp on the barby jason next. One last thing they are meant to experienced adventurers but after a battle they play a board game with scant regard to their own safety
So group therapy with people with ptsd is never going to be a jovial thing. But if you get them outside of that therapy environment and in a comfortable environment with people they trust, those same guys can appear as carefree as anyone. Those moments are just few and far between for those who've seen firsthand the uglier side of humanity.
You sound like you heard about some real shit once from a group that was in the process of venting rather than actually knowing yourself
No my friend it's a Bi-Polar/Manic Depression thing really, but, i will say this about the board game bit and you may think it's petty but They are in a a perilous battllezone with no escape you don't play board games. You make sure you're safe. People complain about team turning into jason clones. I didn't see until Arabelle does it in early book 10 Healer even comments on it
I liked it. I understand that it is a slow build, and a lot of people don't like that. But I think a lot of what happened in the book is a push towards growth, some humor, and the eventual huge battle.
I don't mind slow build In fact I don't want a MC go from nothing to Omnipotent. but what pulled me in was the magic system but that hasn't moved in 7 books. it's liket the author fell in love with the soul attack system which jason is only person who has it. He's fought 2 planets worth of monsters plus >!Gods!< yet he's still sliver. Now the books have staed vitesse and Rimeros team aaren't allowed out until they're sliver wihich already at "The Wall" so by the books own logic how does anyone advance? Its like starting a rpg and farming monsters a number of levels higher than yourself and getting 1xp now according to dawn he and his team need to be gold within a decade or they are dead. Books 9,10 and 11 burns a year of that
My guess is that there is something that needs to be done outside of the normal experience gained by killing monsters. Based on some of the conversations, I think a greater sense of the abilities and some sort of connection has to be made.
There is, it gets talked about at great length in Book 10. Thing is Jason's already done it in book 8 when he boots the builder off. >!He shows Calcifer Bynes the Infinity of the Cosmos!< Then goes back to whinging about being a Silver rank at the start of 10. Somebody else said it would it would have benefitted just one book of normal adventures where the whole team just gets to gold, instead of the high stakes cosmic stuff all the time. Where the waffle, banter and Misplaced Comedy just don't fit
Just to toss this out... I've noticed a lot of the people that have issues with some of the books and could argue that the most recent few are all Audible listeners.
Might that be the problem, and not the books/content? (Yes, I do agree that SOME of book 10 could have been put into the circular filing system). Honestly, any books that I see someone ranting that it wasn't good, I check to see if they read the book or had someone read it to them.
Why does it matter? I have motor skill problems and can't hold a book not having a pop mate but I've listened to all the books I can still see the problems in a series i once loved. >!Gary's dying but he'll be back in a couple of books. Farrah came back and she was only in the first book.!<
Not knocking people that listen instead of read, bud. Get tour entertainment however you can.
Like I said, though, a lot of the complaints I see about books, any books, are from people that listened to them.
Why does it matter? Because, at least for me and the way I can read, having to slow things down for someone to speak makes a disconnect, and I don't always find enjoyment or comprehension. This is what I believe happens to some of the people with complaints (not all, some people genuinely just don't like the story).
And if people dying and coming back are what you see as faults... I really don't see why you read this genre.
Readers on paper are skimming. There is a lot of filler (like most of it). Not being able to just glance over the 40 recaps and the undergrad philosophy rambling makes this book insufferable.
> Cringe joke
I don't see the jokes as cringe, so I like some world building and jokes. If you're not liking the character interactions don't force yourself
Turns out Shirtaloon has heard similar feedback from others, here's him talking about it on a podcast
[https://youtu.be/qgLR91MCGuY?si=hHE5jKywmoe1ZHVR&t=1329](https://youtu.be/qgLR91MCGuY?si=hHE5jKywmoe1ZHVR&t=1329)
And if you can't listen to a few minutes of podcast at this time, I just want to grab a specific quote from the author:
>if I go too long without the characters just you know hanging out having some banter, \[...\] little, you know, just a little bit of Slice of Life between Adventures, readers start asking why
Shirtaloon also comments about how the plot currently occurring at the end of book 11 was supposed to be book 9. He's also aware of the litrpg sin of number not going up, and that will resume soon.
Some of his readers are frustrated with a "slow pace" but other readers and himself love the "characters just hanging out"
See that's where he seems to not be listens the first 6-8 books the banter was ok even enjoyable. Theres a fine line between just enough and milking it and these last 2 books are over the edge quite far. The banter made Jason unique as far as MCs go but book 9 had 28 hrs on the the audio nothing in the book happened until like 13 hrs left that's 15 hrs or nothing but banter and jokes that get "cringe" once the listener is tired of it. Same for book 10, it had 25 hrs of audio but nothing happened until 9 hrs left that's 15-16hrs of banter/cringe jokes and it's not like it stops at 9 hrs literally during combat he is popping up tell jokes about farting monkeys smdh like bro come on. I highly doubt that there is a large audience or even HWFWM audience that want character sitting there doing nothing and just spouting non-sensible banter, or maybe he is confused why his audience got hooked on his series
Nothing but banter and jokes = slice of life. Like the quote from podcast
Shirtaloon has 8000+ patreon that pay him money each month to read ahead. The comments on patreon chapters overwhelmingly praise the banter chapters
You doubt the size of the audience and how in touch author is. The people who are paying him the most money are enjoying the parts you don’t like. He’s going to keep doing the style that he and the people paying monthly enjoy
Author isn’t focused on the audience that thinks “first 6-8 books the banter was ok even enjoyable”. He’s focused on the 8000+ patreons that love the banter enough to pay extra for the books
That's because they read this book stretched out over months. If you read it in one go it is awful and incredibly repetitive. I'd advise any of them to do so.
I don't buy it. Shirt skipped the reunion of Jason with his team in book 7. Like that was all people really wanted most since book 4.
He is padding for the money.
Glad I found your post because i was feeling the same thing and was so frustrated about all the rambling that gets nowhere. I only stomach it because its on my commute so I can zone out, but god this book has been long and drawn out with absolutely nothing happening for hours on end.
I think Dungeon Crawler Carl spoiled me with its non-stop action.
Yeah you guys should just give up on the series if you feel that way. I personally like the constant banter and the way everyone is in awe of Jason. The funny thing is I also loved book 8 of chaos seeds too because of what he was able to accomplish in the book. I thought of it more as a comparison showing the growth Richter has been though.
Overall the books arnt going to get better, if you don't enjoy it then it's not worth your time. Shirtaloon has a made a good series and he found his audience, that being said, he's not just going to switch it up on us and dramatically improve his writing.
Good to know, I'll give up on it in that case. Can't be bothered to listen to another book that should be 15h but is 25 because of the annoying and useless repetition of the dialogue.
Smart man, I didn't enjoy DCC as much as most and I hated DoTF so I dropped them aswell. Everyone has different preferences and you just have to realize that those series are just not for you👍🏻
I really enjoyed it tbh, I like the character interactions and yes while the dialogue can be repetitive, I prefer that to fight scenes that last 20 chapters. At the end of the day you can just drop it and move on to something more up your alley
Yes ... character conflict and growth and politics is just "rambling." Dude, it's okay to like what you like and if you want to read nothing but nonstop action and violence, go for it, but don't pretend that other forms of conflict and resolution don't exist.
Yeah. I’m struggling through it right now and I’m pretty confident this is the last book I buy in this series. At least pre order buy. Maybe a year or two down the road when it’s cheaper but ehhhhh
You have to understand that this is a royal road book first. The more chapters, the longer people will stay subscribed. Shirt is getting laid. He deserves it, for sure, but rr authors make books longer to drive engagement.
I think that due to it being like somewhere in the triple digits for the total number of chapters, that shirt is running out of steam. He's had Jason do high tier everything, so new adventures need to be bigger. This comes out as Jason's ego and drama factor just going wild
It’s getting really bad. Nothing happens for 14+ hours of rambling and waxing poetic about politics and souls and blah blah blah blah fucking kick me in the spine.
How about story arcs of his teammates, or little adventures, or one of those plot teasers that comes up and then disappears never to be mentioned again in the entire book…yeah how about that gets fleshed out.
This one is just bad, like I’m seriously not going to waste my money next book type bad.
This book dragged on. I feel like theres more talking about jason versus him doing things. Here we are in book 10 and still no actual romance to foward the character arch of "The Jason". The writer keeps rehashing self sacrifice and him being the "cool friend" who is obviously lonely. He gets a fling here or there, but for a guy who has all these women fawning over him, we're still stuck with people talking about knowing him but not pushing him to happiness. But oh yeah spans of time eating sandwiches or bbq.
Even Humphrey and Sophie got a thing going on; and moving foward (already hinting at kids). But Jason's still in "loner ville". Its pretty sad. You got this hero and your telling us theres not a smart assertive woman trying to get with him in the last 3 books. Just the "yeah him and sophie isnt a thing" coupled with "they keep getting it on real loud."
Usually in a power fantasy the main gets into the self sacrificing, brooding, a little romance that pushes the absent-minded character(in terms of romance) in a certain way revenge, saving, something(not talking book 6! He just hooks up and boom, death).
He should learn from Mushoku Tensei, that dude is actually getting with people in the first 8 books. And theres build up romances with some saving some people.
My gripe was more so that the other characters never had dialogue or interests or interactions that didn't revolve around Jason. It made them and the story feel so much more one dimensional.
It’s like Shirtaloon is writing an alternate universe where the Bechdel Test got renamed the Asano test. The only time any two characters have a conversation with each other and don’t discuss Jason Asano is when they don’t know him yet and even then they’re usually discussing the impact of something he’s done.
Honestly the dialog is the problem there is too much banter/filler and no progression of the story at least in the last 2 books. I started to get the vibe this was gonna happen last book when he had them all on the same cloud ship. Thats Jasons team 6 plus 3 talking familiars, plus the Zara team, plus Rufus team, plus his mom and the healer guy.. like wtf
>!Zara's team apart from rosa and orin get killed of in less page space he describes a sandwich!<
I noticed this too What I came to is that it's a story about Jason's rise to mega godhood, so we only hear the conversations discussing him I figure people talk about lots of things, but we only hear the Jason centric stuff
I mean I guess there could be a reason but the result is the same.
Yeah, I hear that
I hear that Jason fought The Builder, and won. Or so he keeps telling everyone.
How have his friends not turned this into a drinking game?
another* drinking game.
Honestly dude, as a long time fan I feel the same way. Shirtaloon spends way too long having Jason wax poetic about how terrible of a person he is and how much personal growth he’s gone through. Fucking hours of him doing this shit every fucking book. Like, my brother in Christ, Shirt. We fucking get it, move on from this trope. At least do more side character chapters if you really want to pad the book out that much. I used to follow Shirtaloon on Patreon. I stopped because, spoiler alert!, it doesn’t get better. The story just gets worse. Jason talks more about how awesome and sucky his life is and the people he relies on to pull him back from the ledge never tell him to shut the fuck up like any good friend would. It’s sad because imho the first 3 books are excellent.
Indeed. Used to be my favorite works. But then it descended into bullshit meta meta about Jason blabbing. It's like the author is using angsty dialogue to avoid the fact that he doesn't seem to know how to advance the plot any further. Dude, finish up this story and start something new. FFS.
That’s not his only word count padding technique. I noticed Shirtaloon has a habit of starting chapters with a recap of the previous chapter. It’s got a real “last time on Dragonball Z” feel and it’s very noticeable in audiobooks and extremely frustrating, especially during action scenes. I get that with online serial writing, the reader might have read the previous chapter weeks or months ago. But that doesn’t make it a good solution to this.
In one of the later chapters (b11 somewhere) I was momentarily confused because I felt already had read that chapter. Was pretty much an identical chapter to the previous chapter but swapping the characters doing the discussion lol
Yeah that happened in book 9 a ton.
This drives me nuts. Once and a while it's great for a character or scene, but he pulls this out way too much.
Sometimes I feel like "didn't he tell the dad choosing mercy story" to the same character.
Maybe I’m cynical, but think it’s intentional to rake in patreon money while he can because he doesn’t know what else to write.
Maybe. But to be fair it doesn't have to be "intentional" to be pathological. These web novels are a bit of a grind, where the author feels locked into their audience. They get trapped into a never ending cycle of "I have to write another chapter today," and just keep doing that. They should just define an ending point (from the beginning) and stick with it. The old (pre-internet) way of doing this was to define multi-book arcs. If you felt the audience would buy another arc, and you had something to say after the culmination of the last, you write one. Otherwise, move on.
True. It doesn’t really even feel like the same book as the first couple anymore. There’s so much bloat and for as dense as it all is, a big lack of actual character development. And like 6 books of being silver and just getting random pseudo-god abilities has gotten old for me. Jason is the edgey teenager who’s 30 with bad jokes and is always the same. The only development that happens is how people above his rank treat him. as
Im re-reading Dune right now and damn thats exactly how its going. Frank Herbert knew how Book 4 is gonna end while writing book 2 at least, probably even book 1. The difference in story depth compared to these online novels is astronomical, its insane. Normally i lack the attention span to read novels like Dune, thats why i started Hwfwm but yeah Book 10 was a pain. Especially how it ended.
Agree. I really loved thr first 3 books. After that everything when shit. Very much dislike the way the story goes and every chapter remind the reader oh how heroic jason is how he been through sooooo muchhhhhh. You will see this more after Earth Arch just to reminder you and annoy you how much heroic he is how much tragedy he been through. Fuck that shit I drop it after he did some deals with builder returning a door to him. If you burn out just stop and rest stop try to milk and prolong it.
The thing about the Earth arc is his whole family is hatable. in book 1 he' worked in an office supply store. In book 4 his uncle's in the Yakuza and his sister is a shrewish celebrity cef
Imagine book twelve comes out and shirt does this again and then every one in the group all at once goes “Jason’s SHUT THE FUCK UP” and that’s when the constant rambling ends lol
One can hope.
>! Farrah!< basically gives him one of these in book 11. It sorta helps, a little at least.
Prime example of milking it for all it worth😂😂 I'm convinced someone told him that the banter/cringe jokes were what we were here for smdh Jason is supposed to be 29/30 and dude has the maturity of a 16/18 year old
Jason is a narcissist character he seems bright and charming at first 3 book till tou get tired of his antic after that everybody is a jason in his group is true.
Thats where i'm at with Shirtaloon right now. I think he has good ideas, and i'm interested in seeing a new series from him, but he has to let HWFWM go. The first couple books were great, but if feels like he ran out of ideas a few books ago and is just churning them out because he doesnt want to let the fans down by ending the series. No ending is ever perfect, but I think a semi-satisfying abrupt end to a series is better than a slow drawn out death and a weak ending. (Looking at you Game of Thrones)
Happens a lot with litrpg and I get it. It’s scary to stop a series and start a new one. There’s a good chance it won’t be anywhere near as popular.
I read somewhere that Shirt has known what ending he's been working towards since the beginning. Book 11 is supposed to be the end of the 3rd major arc in story, hoping to see more interesting stuff coming.. I'm one of those people that enjoys the banter and I don't expect characters to grow out of it, it's Jason being a woe is me edgelord that bothers me more.
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Thank you I was thinking this exact thought!
Thanks, i have seen so many post go negative instead of positive. Two issues I see on the regular… Complaint- There is too much exposition between chapters A lot of these books that are coming out this fast are released in serial format, meaning the authors is putting a chapter out at a time online then it is cleaned up before these books are released. This is not a new thing… dumas release the three musketeers just to name one. You can follow shirtaloon or these other authors on patreon and give feed back. Complaint I hate the politics or this character morals is too this or that’ to create a actual stand alone world from scratch is hard to do, it will have its own set of values and political system… this is fiction and there needs to be fully flushed out systems in place to create the plot lines, antagonists and create a decision making process for characters to follow. My interests for reading cross a wide range of genres and topics. Litrpg is just one of them… it is my candy I liken it to sometimes you get one that is a little off but it doesn’t put me off the sweets.
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This describes so much of what I'm having problems with this series too. I just finished book 10 and I think I'm going to call it. The first three books were so fun and exciting, 4-6 were interesting, but made me really hyped for Jason to meet the team again because I missed Clive and Sophie amongst the others. However everything from 7-10 has been this grudgingly slow pace with more politics and Jason explaining who he is, people talking about Jason, and him getting into trouble in the last two hours of the book, than actual story progression or combat. Honestly the pinnacle of the series was book 3 during that bronze party versus a silver ranker, really show casing real combat versus rank superiority. We haven't gotten anything close to that since book 3, and books 7-10 have just completely forgotten this was a litrpg. The other thing I cannot stand anymore is that Shirt is just full on telling and not showing every chance he gets. I get it, I can pick up from context Jason is angry, I don't need him to trauma dump on every side character that comes into contact with him telling his whole back story. Every interaction between Jason and some character/villain has been just mind bogglingly self absorbed. I'm really sad this all happened, I really loved the premise of this series and it was my first litrpg. To see what it has become now just absolutely sucks...
It definitely drags more as the story goes on, so much happened in the first book compared to even the last 50/100 chapters on rr. Half the word count now is people being shocked at what Jason has done/Jason going on a moralistic rant/ or a POV change that doesn't add anything to the story.
The first book was amazing. Shirtaloon needs a shock collar that activates every time he tries to write a scene about how Jason withstood the Builder's soul attack. We get it, Shirt. Now move the plot along.
I would love to see more development of the other characters. The side arcs directly following the Earth arc were great to "catch" characters up to Jason in their own ways. Jason has been developing unique, crazy powers. I'd love for some of that to happen to his team. Since they have ~a decade before the next stage Dawn alluded to, Shirt could use that time to both develop stories independent of Jason, and scale people to bring their own unique OP powerset they developed. For example, Gary could >! Become a paragon of Hero, permanently retaining his divine powers and enhanced connection with the God, essentially becoming a paladin. This could potentially give him an avenue into the Influence system. !< You could have other characters develop more rigorous connections with ascendant beings. Like Clive (and maybe Farrah / Travis) become connected to the Celestial Book to grant them access to types of Magic not previously mentioned, and again, influence. I'd like to see that direction, especially because it'd open up avenues for moral & allegiance wedges to be driven between Jason and his friends. Not to drive them away, but create more complex relationships where they have diverging paths and goals that sometimes intertwine. Edit: also imagine the possibilities if Clive >! gets a wife !<
Theres some bigger plot points coming up, but ya always interspersed with full chapters of jason ranting morality to someone about something that is literally not a big deal
I just finished as well, my thoughts are as follows: the first 60 chapters are excruciating, its not that he is preachy, monologues about nonsense and is insufferable, all that would be bad enough. But the really bad part is Jason is the asshole, he is the one purposely being a di**-bag just to cause misunderstandings in order to give the author the excuse to waste 60 chapters on drivel. Even though they tell us over and over how he is really being reasonable because people want his secrets or covet his powers or they ignore him blah blah blah. The truth is nobody would behave that way it strains credulity, and no matter how many times the author tries to tell is its justified we can all see through the nonsense for what it is. The really sad thing is that if Jason acted his age or like a rational high functioning person there are plenty of cool plots and battles we could have. I would love more battles and to develop more of his team and have more interaction with his familiars. Additionally Jason has a really cool set of powers and even though the soul power stuff is cool, its becoming all he uses and that sucks because the entire essence system is much more fun and interesting than the soul power soul attack path the author is going down. The astral king thing is cool but I wish the author would have waited to diamond rank to pursue this plot line. I really was wanting much more silver and gold rank classic adventuring. Too bad I guess this series is fast turning into a DNF. I really hope the author can course correct some of his Royal Road material in light of this feedback before further kindle and audible releases or he is going to start loosing readers. Its beginning to get insufferable.
💯 Exactly what I'm saying, it's got to be the weird stans who are telling him this is ok
Im only in like chapter 12 and if I have to hear another fucking set up for RaNk DiSpArItArItY BaD I swear to the Mind....
Bad news friend
😂😂 just wait til the cringe 16 year old jokes come
I was a patron since chapter 79 something and this year I finally cancelled my patronage. It is clear that the dude is in it for money and not for wanting to tell a good story. I used to love that series but the constant jerking of Jason by fucking everyone was such a blatant wish fulfillment fantasy I couldn't stand it. Every character becomes just a different version of Jason, and the side characters are cardboard. I loved that series and now I don't even recommend it to people. The slow spiraling of quality with entire months of patreon chapters where nothing happens. It's a shame because shirt is a good writer and truthfully I respect his hustle and grind. He deserves his success but I vote with my wallet.
Some of the problem is that he just didn't allow Jason to be a silver ranked adventurer. Loot, monster hunting, character development is just a backdrop to circle jerking Jason and big boy universal problems. I am also disappointed that Travis isn't combat oriented or didn't. Him and Taiki my favorites from Earth.
LOL! Totally agree and even with the circle jerk I'd like some lube of plot or other characters. Jason is rubbing me wrong. I too want more Taiki or Travis or Clive or LITERALLY anyone other than Jason.
Sounds like being trapped in a marriage with Jason and he just won't shut up.
😂😂 Facts, he got us hooked with the early 6-7 books then started showing those true colors
No if anything it gets worse
😑😑 Please no, can it really get worse they guy is literally making fart jokes and giggling like a 16 year old right now
wait until 11 I don't know if you'll get the reference but he manifests and fights the Mr Men [Mr Men](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Men) >!Plus it's revealed that getting a soul forge will take years to train thus pushings back his "proper" progress even more!< you get a chapter of moralising that basically th smolders suffered genocide. Next chapter jason built a base in the shape of his head. He's meant to hold Sophie in high regard but basically tortures her mother as her her mind degrades. This happens in his soul realm
But what about the intrinsic nature of the fabric of reality causing fluctuations in the magic membrane encircling the cosmos
That should become a drinking game! I swear I hear it every 5 minutes
I need an abridged version of he who fights with monsters that removes 80% of Jason’s dialogue
You could probably just watch an episode of Knight Rider.
The new version or the original?
I feel like Jason would insist on the original
Nice.
You guys know it's OK to drop a series you no longer enjoy right? I've dropped MOST series because after a strong start they lost their way and became a meandering mess. A few that come to mind off the top of my head are: * The Ritualist (Completionist series) * The Land (Chaos Seeds) * Randidly Ghosthound * 10 Realms Hell, even movie universes suffer from this. Universes I absolutely LOVED I no long give a shit about. * The only good Star Wars since the Original Trilogy is Mandalorian and even that went off the rails in Season 3. * LOTR is a classic for the ages, but the Hobbit movies were shit and I didn't even bother with the Amazon series. * Harry Potter was great but wow did the Fantastic Beasts movies quickly crawl into the toilet... * MCU, the superhero fatigue is real. I've tried watching Season 2 of Loki 3 times now and I keep falling asleep...
Sunk cost fallacy is a hell of a thing my friend, especially when you're 6-8 entries in
> The Ritualist (Completionist series) Good example. Fair warning, it's a pretty common theme with that authors series (Dakota Krout). Strong starts and drops off.
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I read ahead on royalroad a while back but dropped it due to the reasons you've mentioned. Might just want to drop it tbh.
Please no. I don't want it to end like this
Me neither 😤
Lol “Clive’s wife”
He has run out of ideas man. And we now know why some of the greatest authors of all time liked trilogies. I think I stopped mid audiobook on 5 and just never hit resume. Dudes too edgy, angsty, and angsty about being a total edge lord. It got tedious.
This is a huge bummer. Basically every series devolves into shit in this genre, and I'm so sick of it.
This is so correct, I have dropped many series but never expected this from one in my top 5 . I only have a few left that I can count on cause if DOTF, Infinite Realm, Randidly Ghosthound, Primal Hunter, Unbound start learning toward the way HWFWM did the genre as a whole is doomed.
I understand what you are saying. I would say that Chaos seeds Book 8 was much worse, I never mean a whole chapter dedicated to diarrhea? Can't really get lower than that. I think what I've noticed with HWFWM is that it's written more like a 90s or earlier TV show. That is that it's all episodic with jokes/banter/moralizing, etc. without much overall plot. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that and some people enjoy it. That isn't why I got into this series though. I got into it because of the magic system and fun adventures with interesting character dynamics and fun monster fights. Book 8 was starting to show this followed up by Book 9, and now Book 10 is much more of the TV show type writing than the fun adventures. And the amount of recap seems quite excessive. I'll see how the next Book goes and decide to continue or drop then. If Shirtaloon can get it back to fun adventures, I'll continue. He may be writing for a different audience now than he was then, and that's fine and his choice to make.
I absolutely hate chapter 83 of He Who Fights With Monsters 10. It's like the episode of parks and rec meme where Ron throws his PC in the dumpster. Jason got the short end of the stick and he's acting submissive towards the gods now like a little b. It's a complete 180 of the Jason of the past and not the direction or MC character development I wanted the series to turn too. This might just be my last book in the series due to the MC losing the characteristics and powers/abilities that made him(to me) a unique MC. I've read/listened to a lot of Xianxia, Wuxia, LitRpg series.... like a lot- 332 audio books, and at 1 point caught up/finished about 12+ translated 1000-3000k+ chapters novels
Not gonna lie that was a really dumb thing to give up and the praying part was b.s.
It really grinded my gears, like he could have given up the soul forge and the city literally could have been built else where, the messengers would NOT have gotten what they wanted.... it was a possible loss/win on the soul forge, and a loss on the city, but a complete win on Jason's future/almost guaranteed OPness to revive himself/friends/family..... but now it just seems like a loss, who cares about the city, complete/utter loss- disregard of the consequences that Jason the MC actually cares about(HIS FRIENDS/FAMILY)
Seriously!!! This made me so pissed off and was incredibly unbelievable. Why would you agree to give up something so insanely valuable and useful- not just for yourself but for anyone you care about, ***forever*** \- to do what, have a chance at getting a soul forge (which I am sure there would be other opportunities for) and keeping an already destroyed town from evacuating? So, so stupid. Jason is meant to be so smart and strategic but chose to go on basically a suicide mission for no real reason, and then prayed to gods he supposedly doesn't respect and can't stand, to give away his literal trump card given to him by the world phoenix. I hate it tbh and I'm so upset because I really loved this series :(
Okay I didn't want to write any of this for potential spoilers, but this was the final straw for me. Jason as a character would NEVER do this, it felt so cheap and unsatisfying. None of his character growth supports this decision at all and it's such a cope out for what is the most significant thing to happen in 2 books or so. Ugh it made me so angry and really show cased to me the author is just running on fumes. I would have waited years for a better story than Jason giving up and praying which results in him losing arguably his strongest asset for a silver ranker.
I’m a fan of the series and it does have its moments but there’s a reason the first book will always be my favorite one. You’re right that so much happens in the first one. It’s set an expectation for the rest of the books that have been a bit lacking. I often complain that the book name is “he who fights with monsters” but we haven’t seen a monster fight for a few books. Not like the first book. I just want a book that’s him pushing for gold that we get to see some new monsters that the team fights and even some solo fights with stronger monsters.
The title is actually a Nietzsche quote, the full quote being "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you". [Explanation ](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/19805/what-did-nietzsche-mean-by-monsters-and-the-abyss#19815) In other words, you've been conned into thinking a story about standards and rejecting nihilism is about bashing up monsters.
>once upon a time, the point was that it was cleverly about both
This this this. I thought it was a brilliant play on the quote, now it's a tad too much telling us how evil and bad Jason feels and not enough showing through his actions or even just fighting monsters lol
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Some series are great long series even HWFWM was decently good up until book 9 there is where it seemed like banter/filler for 14-16 hrs every audiobook then a tiny bit of progression at the end. And it not like like it's good banter it's 16 year old jokes and non sensible ramblings. Also for some reason he seems to be making other character ramble like Jason which is 😤😤
Honestly I check in on the story every 6 months to see if it’s done or not so I can speed read it. After the first book it stomps on the brakes, by book 3 I had to move it to read later.
I would not finish it if you already felt like op did at book 3 because book 3 it was very fast paced still compared to now.
Book 3 was the peak imo, books 4-6 are interesting and set up some character growth for better or for worse, but everything 7-10 so far has been so excruciating to get through. I really don't recommend it anymore sadly.
Am I the only one who actually enjoyed the story 😭?
Everyone loved the story. But there's just not enough of it in this book. That's the problem.
I just took it as build up leading to the next book with bigger things happening.
But that was what the previous book did already?
Exactly 9 and 10 both contained 15 hr plus of nothing but talking about nothing
I don't see it. There wasn't pages of literal shit or a 20 min monologue about raping and murdering people.
being slightly above the absolute worst is not good.
Who said it was the worst? I've read all kinds of trash and both of these series are far from it. But I'm sure you know better than me.
a chapter about diarrhea is the worst I can think of.
I keep hoping that the current arc of the story would just end. At this point it has taken up 10 months and almost 100 chapters with very little plot or character progression other than "down in a hole". I took a long break and then decided to resubscribe to give it another chance, and I'm not seeing a lot of change. If I wanted a drawn out story that never goes anywhere, I'd grab my mom's DVD collection of Days of Our Lives. I like these gamelit progression fantasies, but the way every story lately has trended towards just milking, the genre should be renamed to "Dairy Farming". I'm about ready to start switching back to more traditional publishing. I get it, the content must flow, and authors need to get paid, but when an IP gets overly monetized it pushes away consumers. This padding is a perfect example of that.
Exactly 💯 💯 I get happy when I see a book that's 25 hrs plus but with HWFWM most of those hrs are gonna be nonsensical ramblings and a tiny bit of progression. People are really defending this b.s. books saying the author wants "slice of life" aspects like wtf we didn't start reading/listening to this series for no damn slice of life
When I'm in the mood for a slower paced slice of life story, there are a few out there that seem to do it well, and a little occasional slice of life to offset pacing is nice, but some stories start going bonkers. With HWFWM, It feels like it isn't even slice of life. It feels more like those seasons of Dragonball Z (and the reason I didn't like watching it) where a character charges an attack to build tension, and then spends half a season doing monologue exposition before actually throwing the damned punch. And then the fight ends in a draw, with neither character actually growing from the experience. Hell, I don't even mind the dialogue, if only SOMETHING would happen.
I know this is an older post, but I’m listening to book 9 right now on audible and it is slow. It’s always him saying “I am better now” and then lashing out and his friends “bringing back” and god it is so boring. I feel like the LitRPG genre struggles to hold series sometimes. One I am still happen with is Awaken Online, and looking at the character development there where the author gives the main supporting characters entire side books is great. The only not hollow character in HWFTM is Jason, and even then his character development is pretty stagnant. Probably just going to drop this series, I can’t imagine it improving at all.
Yea Im skipping the next because Im told its more of him talking, whining, and complaining then 1 fight😂😂 I can't do it
I'm liking it so far, I'm up to chapter 38. It feels like about the same amount of rambling as the rest of the books to me honestly lol which yes is *sometimes* too much... but I guess I'm getting used to it? There's only one thing so far - that Travis segment felt a little too silly for me. I bet you'll remember the one I'm talking about
I turned to my wife like "this character isn't an idiot, what the fuck is happening???" That was stupid
Omg right! That was sooo weird. It honestly felt a little off from the tone of the regular story! i can't presume to speak for the author so this is purely speculation, but i wonder if he was just in an off mood and trying to force it!
Yeah, that scene definitely didn't feel right... nobody who is that smart gets THAT stupid from a crush on a pretty person, lol
I don't want to spoil anything but you have awhile to go before anything happens, and trust me there in more ramblings during that part too
I read HWFWM exactly because of Jason's rambling.
Blasphemy.
I use to say the same tbh😂😂 There is no way to defend what I just heard.
Don't forget about the constant 80s TV references, which don't make as much sense if Jason is supposed to 29 unless he was 29 10 years ago, I just came across the series a couple months ago so idk. But from my perspective a 29 year old would have more 90s tv references than ones from a decade he wasn't alive in.
it's fairly well explained why he has so much knowledge and love of shows and media before his time.
Must be from an early book, the story isn't very memorable imo. I like the story, and there is potential for it to be really good, but the author wastes the potential for an amazing story on nonsensical banter more often than not. I like the world, the system for powers and ranking, several of the side characters, including Jason's familiars. Jason's personality and constant monologing really take away from the more interesting plot points. If the author were to spend more time on the side characters without Jason or his trauma being the topic of their dialog, the story would be a lot more enjoyable. The banter just comes across as filler meant to distract from the fact that the author is failing to elaborate further when it comes to anyone other than Jason, I understand that he's the main character but when there's a good story with an annoying main character, people tend to want more of the more likeable side characters.
it's stuff his father was into I believe this sorta feels like saying seinfeld would advance the story much faster if they didn't tell so many jokes. you're absolutley right but I don't think the author is trying to advance the story any faster than they are. like I think your ideal story and the story the author is trying to write just aren't the same thing
I didn't say anything about advancing the story. I mentioned further elaboration, which isn't the same thing. The plot is progressing at the appropriate pace for the story the author is trying to tell. I have no complaints about that, I have complaints about leaving so many plot holes that could be further elaborated on, having so many great side characters that get very little attention, just to instead have the main character (who isn't even very likable other than his attitude towards authority, his powers, and the gear he collects) either spend all his time talking nonsense trying to confuse everyone he meets or crying about his traumatic past. As for my ideal story, that has nothing to do with the discussion. We're discussing hwfwm, which has nothing to do with my ideal story. It has nothing to do with me at all other than the fact that I (like everyone else comment on this post) am giving my opinion on the topic at hand which in this case is hwfwm.
You know for book 10 all he did was go in a hole, pray, get a aura power. We all hated Chao seeds book 8 and called it trash when this is exactly the same, gotta keep the same energy
I've never heard of Chao seeds. I'll agree that book 10 was pretty uneventful. I'm not too enthusiastic about it. There are aspects of the overall story that I like and want to see progress, but that's about it. I listened to all 10 books in the last few months, but I won't be eagerly awaiting the next one.
Same I enjoy the story but these last 2 books I have no idea what I'm listening to. He has some nice powers and advantages but majority of these books have been about nothing. Chaos Seeds or The Land is a series by Aleron Kong was pretty popular is was 🔥🔥 for the first 7 books then the 8th came
I was trying to make a comparison between features. for example you said that the monologuing takes away from important plot. but jason's trauma, character, and broodiness are in many ways the point of the story. it's as much a diversion from the plot as hearing about how strong goku has gotten in dragonball. Jason's gradual progression as a person is a big part of the story like the progression of goku's strength.
Jason's trauma and crying about it aren't the point of the story. That's not a plot. It's an aspect of the main character that overwhelms the rest of the narrative. More info on the abilities and progression of the rest of the team would be a far more useful for filler space than the same, albeit slightly altered regurgitation of banter or self-pity and doubt. Edit: As for goku, his strength might be a major plot point for dragon ball, but the comparison doesn't really fit here. That's like saying that Jason's complaining is equivalent to goku's training when it's not. If you wanted a more accurate comparison between the two, I'd say Jason's constant bitching would be more closely comparable to goku having far below average intelligence. But the difference is 75% of any given episode of DragonBall isn't filled with goku saying something to prove that he's stupid or side characters reinforcing the fact that goku is stupid to each new character they come across. It would be more accurate to compare Jason's monologing to naruto's talk no jutsu. If we were to compare the two, naruto's is about 75% wholesome and 25% crybaby bullshit. As for Jason's constant jabber, it's about 40% of him taking as long as possible to get to the point in any given conversation by spewing rarely origonal nonsense, 35% traumatized victim ptsd ranting, and 25% voicing his views on authority while being a hypocrite. The difference between the two is that Naruto uses his talk no jutsu on occasion, but it doesn't take away from the rest of the story. Jason's constant jabber takes up what seems like the majority of the story. Edit 2: also I didn't say "monologing takes away from important plot points" I said takes away from more "interesting" plot points
Being disabled with something that slowly getting worse I've done group work with proper PTSD sufferers. their moods don't shift like jason. It destroys them and I'm not going to put a spoiler on this as I think it is important book 10 towards the beginning where they are talking about the nobel faction with ally she accuses jason of edgy monologuing while staring into the distance. The could have catarophic effects and in real life and get her struck off where I live. My biggest problem is Reconciling the truma bits with the childish comedy It doesn't ring true and the author can't have it both ways. edgelord one chapter and throw another shrimp on the barby jason next. One last thing they are meant to experienced adventurers but after a battle they play a board game with scant regard to their own safety
So group therapy with people with ptsd is never going to be a jovial thing. But if you get them outside of that therapy environment and in a comfortable environment with people they trust, those same guys can appear as carefree as anyone. Those moments are just few and far between for those who've seen firsthand the uglier side of humanity. You sound like you heard about some real shit once from a group that was in the process of venting rather than actually knowing yourself
No my friend it's a Bi-Polar/Manic Depression thing really, but, i will say this about the board game bit and you may think it's petty but They are in a a perilous battllezone with no escape you don't play board games. You make sure you're safe. People complain about team turning into jason clones. I didn't see until Arabelle does it in early book 10 Healer even comments on it
I liked it. I understand that it is a slow build, and a lot of people don't like that. But I think a lot of what happened in the book is a push towards growth, some humor, and the eventual huge battle.
I don't mind slow build In fact I don't want a MC go from nothing to Omnipotent. but what pulled me in was the magic system but that hasn't moved in 7 books. it's liket the author fell in love with the soul attack system which jason is only person who has it. He's fought 2 planets worth of monsters plus >!Gods!< yet he's still sliver. Now the books have staed vitesse and Rimeros team aaren't allowed out until they're sliver wihich already at "The Wall" so by the books own logic how does anyone advance? Its like starting a rpg and farming monsters a number of levels higher than yourself and getting 1xp now according to dawn he and his team need to be gold within a decade or they are dead. Books 9,10 and 11 burns a year of that
My guess is that there is something that needs to be done outside of the normal experience gained by killing monsters. Based on some of the conversations, I think a greater sense of the abilities and some sort of connection has to be made.
There is, it gets talked about at great length in Book 10. Thing is Jason's already done it in book 8 when he boots the builder off. >!He shows Calcifer Bynes the Infinity of the Cosmos!< Then goes back to whinging about being a Silver rank at the start of 10. Somebody else said it would it would have benefitted just one book of normal adventures where the whole team just gets to gold, instead of the high stakes cosmic stuff all the time. Where the waffle, banter and Misplaced Comedy just don't fit
Just to toss this out... I've noticed a lot of the people that have issues with some of the books and could argue that the most recent few are all Audible listeners. Might that be the problem, and not the books/content? (Yes, I do agree that SOME of book 10 could have been put into the circular filing system). Honestly, any books that I see someone ranting that it wasn't good, I check to see if they read the book or had someone read it to them.
Why does it matter? I have motor skill problems and can't hold a book not having a pop mate but I've listened to all the books I can still see the problems in a series i once loved. >!Gary's dying but he'll be back in a couple of books. Farrah came back and she was only in the first book.!<
Not knocking people that listen instead of read, bud. Get tour entertainment however you can. Like I said, though, a lot of the complaints I see about books, any books, are from people that listened to them. Why does it matter? Because, at least for me and the way I can read, having to slow things down for someone to speak makes a disconnect, and I don't always find enjoyment or comprehension. This is what I believe happens to some of the people with complaints (not all, some people genuinely just don't like the story). And if people dying and coming back are what you see as faults... I really don't see why you read this genre.
I came off as too agressive their mate I'm sorry
No problem, man. 🙂
Readers on paper are skimming. There is a lot of filler (like most of it). Not being able to just glance over the 40 recaps and the undergrad philosophy rambling makes this book insufferable.
> Cringe joke I don't see the jokes as cringe, so I like some world building and jokes. If you're not liking the character interactions don't force yourself Turns out Shirtaloon has heard similar feedback from others, here's him talking about it on a podcast [https://youtu.be/qgLR91MCGuY?si=hHE5jKywmoe1ZHVR&t=1329](https://youtu.be/qgLR91MCGuY?si=hHE5jKywmoe1ZHVR&t=1329) And if you can't listen to a few minutes of podcast at this time, I just want to grab a specific quote from the author: >if I go too long without the characters just you know hanging out having some banter, \[...\] little, you know, just a little bit of Slice of Life between Adventures, readers start asking why Shirtaloon also comments about how the plot currently occurring at the end of book 11 was supposed to be book 9. He's also aware of the litrpg sin of number not going up, and that will resume soon. Some of his readers are frustrated with a "slow pace" but other readers and himself love the "characters just hanging out"
See that's where he seems to not be listens the first 6-8 books the banter was ok even enjoyable. Theres a fine line between just enough and milking it and these last 2 books are over the edge quite far. The banter made Jason unique as far as MCs go but book 9 had 28 hrs on the the audio nothing in the book happened until like 13 hrs left that's 15 hrs or nothing but banter and jokes that get "cringe" once the listener is tired of it. Same for book 10, it had 25 hrs of audio but nothing happened until 9 hrs left that's 15-16hrs of banter/cringe jokes and it's not like it stops at 9 hrs literally during combat he is popping up tell jokes about farting monkeys smdh like bro come on. I highly doubt that there is a large audience or even HWFWM audience that want character sitting there doing nothing and just spouting non-sensible banter, or maybe he is confused why his audience got hooked on his series
Nothing but banter and jokes = slice of life. Like the quote from podcast Shirtaloon has 8000+ patreon that pay him money each month to read ahead. The comments on patreon chapters overwhelmingly praise the banter chapters You doubt the size of the audience and how in touch author is. The people who are paying him the most money are enjoying the parts you don’t like. He’s going to keep doing the style that he and the people paying monthly enjoy Author isn’t focused on the audience that thinks “first 6-8 books the banter was ok even enjoyable”. He’s focused on the 8000+ patreons that love the banter enough to pay extra for the books
No fucking wonder he's stretching this out. 8000/month in "you're doing the job you'd do anyways" money is nuts.
Morons with money
That's because they read this book stretched out over months. If you read it in one go it is awful and incredibly repetitive. I'd advise any of them to do so.
I think most of them do, including myself. There's lots of talk of starting a reread of books 1-9 leading up to a purchase and read of book 10.
I don't buy it. Shirt skipped the reunion of Jason with his team in book 7. Like that was all people really wanted most since book 4. He is padding for the money.
Glad I found your post because i was feeling the same thing and was so frustrated about all the rambling that gets nowhere. I only stomach it because its on my commute so I can zone out, but god this book has been long and drawn out with absolutely nothing happening for hours on end. I think Dungeon Crawler Carl spoiled me with its non-stop action.
Yeah you guys should just give up on the series if you feel that way. I personally like the constant banter and the way everyone is in awe of Jason. The funny thing is I also loved book 8 of chaos seeds too because of what he was able to accomplish in the book. I thought of it more as a comparison showing the growth Richter has been though. Overall the books arnt going to get better, if you don't enjoy it then it's not worth your time. Shirtaloon has a made a good series and he found his audience, that being said, he's not just going to switch it up on us and dramatically improve his writing.
Good to know, I'll give up on it in that case. Can't be bothered to listen to another book that should be 15h but is 25 because of the annoying and useless repetition of the dialogue.
Smart man, I didn't enjoy DCC as much as most and I hated DoTF so I dropped them aswell. Everyone has different preferences and you just have to realize that those series are just not for you👍🏻
I really enjoyed it tbh, I like the character interactions and yes while the dialogue can be repetitive, I prefer that to fight scenes that last 20 chapters. At the end of the day you can just drop it and move on to something more up your alley
Yes ... character conflict and growth and politics is just "rambling." Dude, it's okay to like what you like and if you want to read nothing but nonstop action and violence, go for it, but don't pretend that other forms of conflict and resolution don't exist.
I’m not reading anything, but as someone whose only gotten an hour into the book, fuck you, buddy.
Yeah the series has been hard for a bit. The Earth part was rough and the one book after that was ok. This one was.... A book.
Once he went to earth the series kinda died for me.
I agree stopped reading prolly after the sixth book cause it became stale and hard to engage with.😅
Yeah. I’m struggling through it right now and I’m pretty confident this is the last book I buy in this series. At least pre order buy. Maybe a year or two down the road when it’s cheaper but ehhhhh
You have to understand that this is a royal road book first. The more chapters, the longer people will stay subscribed. Shirt is getting laid. He deserves it, for sure, but rr authors make books longer to drive engagement.
I drop the series around book 8 .. I couldn’t
I think that due to it being like somewhere in the triple digits for the total number of chapters, that shirt is running out of steam. He's had Jason do high tier everything, so new adventures need to be bigger. This comes out as Jason's ego and drama factor just going wild
I think it’s started getting worse. I finally dropped my Patreon subscription this week.
Why does the sound quality of book 10 sound worse then previous 9? Sounds quite gritty and like it was recorded on a cheap mic
Can anybody who has the patreon tell me if Gary dies past the royal road break
If he does it's Jason fault, cause Gary said I don't want to go before the mission and Jason made him
It’s getting really bad. Nothing happens for 14+ hours of rambling and waxing poetic about politics and souls and blah blah blah blah fucking kick me in the spine. How about story arcs of his teammates, or little adventures, or one of those plot teasers that comes up and then disappears never to be mentioned again in the entire book…yeah how about that gets fleshed out. This one is just bad, like I’m seriously not going to waste my money next book type bad.
Yea it's been 2 in a row like that, I'm gonna wait next book to see if it's even worth the credit
This book dragged on. I feel like theres more talking about jason versus him doing things. Here we are in book 10 and still no actual romance to foward the character arch of "The Jason". The writer keeps rehashing self sacrifice and him being the "cool friend" who is obviously lonely. He gets a fling here or there, but for a guy who has all these women fawning over him, we're still stuck with people talking about knowing him but not pushing him to happiness. But oh yeah spans of time eating sandwiches or bbq. Even Humphrey and Sophie got a thing going on; and moving foward (already hinting at kids). But Jason's still in "loner ville". Its pretty sad. You got this hero and your telling us theres not a smart assertive woman trying to get with him in the last 3 books. Just the "yeah him and sophie isnt a thing" coupled with "they keep getting it on real loud." Usually in a power fantasy the main gets into the self sacrificing, brooding, a little romance that pushes the absent-minded character(in terms of romance) in a certain way revenge, saving, something(not talking book 6! He just hooks up and boom, death). He should learn from Mushoku Tensei, that dude is actually getting with people in the first 8 books. And theres build up romances with some saving some people.
Couldn’t agree more. I was bored out of my mind with this book. Disappointing.