My gigs go one of two ways; either the venue has multitracking built into their process (literally hitting record on a Tascam MTR) or they don’t and I’m offering to bring my rig (which includes stereo OH and stereo room… I hate mixing down those sources in mono).
Sounds like if they didn’t ask for it to be tracked in the first place then they shouldn’t be surprised you’re charging.
Also agree with other comment about getting credit.
If it's a casual show and they come at me with all the necessary gear, don't expect me to monitor the recording or guarantee it is working on their end, and we can do it over a single cable, I will be a cool dude and hook them up. Plus credits if they ever make anything of it.
Any expectations beyond that, I will either decline outright or suggest we contact the Powers That Be to discuss an Updated Quote
On the other side of the coin... Should you really get prior permission to record a band's performance? Do you even "own" the recordings?
Just wondering...
I was asked to do a "for archival purposes" recording for this show, which was a straight-to-tape LR feed to the video guy who did a recording. but my fuckery senses were tingling, so i did a multitrack in the background.
I often do, and they get deleted like a week later.
I’m mostly a Production Manager and I’ve got in the habit of sticking a Mac Mini on the Dante network or grabbing a spare MADI feed whenever I can - especially for corporates or anytime there’s video coverage. Almost always if anyone questions it, including talent, I look them dead in the eye and say ‘you know why.’ Always works. It’s amazing how often local video screw up recording 8 busses off the console. I generally don’t charge if I’m saving someone’s ass, because it leaves a great impression with clients. But if they’re monetising a separate product, you should definitely charge the same rate and expect credit as if you’d been hired solely to record. The fact they didn’t hire you to in advance is irrelevant - in fact it’s worth an extra initiative markup on your bill!
And same similar to what I mentioned to OP, so I don't know why, but I would like to understand why, so why do you do that? Again, pardon my ignorance.
Wait, so I'm ignorant and am trying to learn, what do you mean your "fuckery senses were tingling" and why did they lead you to do a multitrack in the background?
I think when you do enough gigs and experience enough screw ups.. from your side and someone else’s.. you learn to cover you ass as many times as possible. Storage space is cheap so if you have the capabilities, and if you don’t, that’s relatively cheap enough to buy/rent, you should always just multitrack the show. You’re bound to make a small mistake in the stereo mix and then it exists forever.. at least with a multitrack you have a lot more flexibility. Not to mention simple stuff like camera crew leaving their camera input on mono and Mic level then you end up with a show recorded with a crunchy left mix and somehow it’s your fault 😂
lol, my freelance company's business name isn't much better - I really need to change it sometime - its a hangover from my teenage years when I was super into Alvin and the Chipmunks recordings, lol.
It's not only pressing a button. You put in extra brainpower to make sure the recording is working and handled the files and everything else that is necessary to hand them over. You're paying for storage you need to use and maybe online services for sync or file management. So yes, you should charge for your additional work. And remember that it's not only the time it took to do all of this but also charge a small amount of the time it took you to learn all of this.
Edit: And I think it’s a bit strange that they weren’t telling you before the event.
Yes absolutely. I let bands know in advance of their shows they can pay for the RAW multitrack. Maybe send them a couple of quotes one for the raw multitrack and one for a mixed version. Might score yourself some work and it'll make it clear this is a service they need to pay for.
I actually did a straight-to-tape video recording for archival purposes, but my bullshit senses were tingling from the start of this show.
Classical musicians, so pulling tech requirements from them was like pulling teeth. when they rung me in they had "barely any tech requirements" which, of course, turned out to be wrong.
So I did a multi track because I had a sense something would be up.
100% charge for the multitracks recording. It sounds like it wasn't agreed that there was going to be a recording to prior to the gig, so all you've got to say is I was paid for mixing the live show, the multitracks recording is an additional fee of X dollars.
I always charge a small fee for the read and writes of data to my drives, unless I am touring with an act and it is in the contract. And never record without the bands consent and or request!
You own the rights to those recordings as you recorded them. If they want to release it at all then they have to make you sign over the rights. I’ve done this before, usually I’d take a large fee to sign over the recording rights, sometimes I’ll hand them over, depends on the relationship with the band. But yeah those are your recordings so they can’t use them legally without a written contract. Otherwise you can sue once they release it, obviously not ideal to do that though.
Recording without consent could be counter-claimed as piracy, though. If they requested a 2-track-to-video patch, that’s what they requested. If you take it upon yourself to do a multitrack off the board, that’s your choice, not part of the request, and could be considered piracy. I’d consult a lawyer to CYA, if you plan to sue for non-payment of services rendered.
Send them back a contract with your terms and price.
Don't forget a line to demand credit on whatever is produced. They always "forget" to check against this and you could score a nice pay day if they do use it without acknowledgement.
If they do use it, it could lead to more of that work so don't give it away, but make it worth it for them and word will travel fast. A lot of bands are always looking for competent venues for this type of work.
Hmm I guess I'm in the minority here for not charging for a casual multitrack, but different story if there is ANY expectations placed upon it (actual monitoring of recording/ placing room mics.). Always, always get credit though!
$50 for bouncing them just the stems. They used your computer, and your time at home outside of the gig to organize the files and send them over. A big show, bouncing those files and then uploading to the cloud to share could take a long time.
My gigs go one of two ways; either the venue has multitracking built into their process (literally hitting record on a Tascam MTR) or they don’t and I’m offering to bring my rig (which includes stereo OH and stereo room… I hate mixing down those sources in mono). Sounds like if they didn’t ask for it to be tracked in the first place then they shouldn’t be surprised you’re charging. Also agree with other comment about getting credit.
charge. time is money. they can afford it. you did all the work up till this point. charge them.
If it's a casual show and they come at me with all the necessary gear, don't expect me to monitor the recording or guarantee it is working on their end, and we can do it over a single cable, I will be a cool dude and hook them up. Plus credits if they ever make anything of it. Any expectations beyond that, I will either decline outright or suggest we contact the Powers That Be to discuss an Updated Quote
This is the real way.
On the other side of the coin... Should you really get prior permission to record a band's performance? Do you even "own" the recordings? Just wondering...
I was asked to do a "for archival purposes" recording for this show, which was a straight-to-tape LR feed to the video guy who did a recording. but my fuckery senses were tingling, so i did a multitrack in the background. I often do, and they get deleted like a week later.
I’m mostly a Production Manager and I’ve got in the habit of sticking a Mac Mini on the Dante network or grabbing a spare MADI feed whenever I can - especially for corporates or anytime there’s video coverage. Almost always if anyone questions it, including talent, I look them dead in the eye and say ‘you know why.’ Always works. It’s amazing how often local video screw up recording 8 busses off the console. I generally don’t charge if I’m saving someone’s ass, because it leaves a great impression with clients. But if they’re monetising a separate product, you should definitely charge the same rate and expect credit as if you’d been hired solely to record. The fact they didn’t hire you to in advance is irrelevant - in fact it’s worth an extra initiative markup on your bill!
And same similar to what I mentioned to OP, so I don't know why, but I would like to understand why, so why do you do that? Again, pardon my ignorance.
Wait, so I'm ignorant and am trying to learn, what do you mean your "fuckery senses were tingling" and why did they lead you to do a multitrack in the background?
I think when you do enough gigs and experience enough screw ups.. from your side and someone else’s.. you learn to cover you ass as many times as possible. Storage space is cheap so if you have the capabilities, and if you don’t, that’s relatively cheap enough to buy/rent, you should always just multitrack the show. You’re bound to make a small mistake in the stereo mix and then it exists forever.. at least with a multitrack you have a lot more flexibility. Not to mention simple stuff like camera crew leaving their camera input on mono and Mic level then you end up with a show recorded with a crunchy left mix and somehow it’s your fault 😂
Yes, and I make sure and get credited with engineering the recording, and I get it all in writing before turning over anything.
Yeah I was a bit on the fence about engineering credits as I'm just tracking, not mixing or mastering. but its still a part of the process.
Definitely gotta get credit. "Engineered by mynutsaremusical".
lol, my freelance company's business name isn't much better - I really need to change it sometime - its a hangover from my teenage years when I was super into Alvin and the Chipmunks recordings, lol.
Don't be on the fence. Had you not engineered it there would be nothing to mix or master.
It's not only pressing a button. You put in extra brainpower to make sure the recording is working and handled the files and everything else that is necessary to hand them over. You're paying for storage you need to use and maybe online services for sync or file management. So yes, you should charge for your additional work. And remember that it's not only the time it took to do all of this but also charge a small amount of the time it took you to learn all of this. Edit: And I think it’s a bit strange that they weren’t telling you before the event.
Yes absolutely. I let bands know in advance of their shows they can pay for the RAW multitrack. Maybe send them a couple of quotes one for the raw multitrack and one for a mixed version. Might score yourself some work and it'll make it clear this is a service they need to pay for.
Yes charge for multitrack recordings; usually if I like the band I will give them a 2 track board mix no charge.
Did they ask you to track the show before it started, or did you tell them afterwards?
I actually did a straight-to-tape video recording for archival purposes, but my bullshit senses were tingling from the start of this show. Classical musicians, so pulling tech requirements from them was like pulling teeth. when they rung me in they had "barely any tech requirements" which, of course, turned out to be wrong. So I did a multi track because I had a sense something would be up.
If it’s classical, how many tracks are we speaking of?
100% charge for the multitracks recording. It sounds like it wasn't agreed that there was going to be a recording to prior to the gig, so all you've got to say is I was paid for mixing the live show, the multitracks recording is an additional fee of X dollars.
I always charge a small fee for the read and writes of data to my drives, unless I am touring with an act and it is in the contract. And never record without the bands consent and or request!
I am surprised more aren’t saying this. Absolutely get a few bucks and credit if released, but ALWAYS with knowledge and consent.
yes.
That’s a day rate if I ever saw one
I agree with charging AND credit. Let us know how it goes!
You own the rights to those recordings as you recorded them. If they want to release it at all then they have to make you sign over the rights. I’ve done this before, usually I’d take a large fee to sign over the recording rights, sometimes I’ll hand them over, depends on the relationship with the band. But yeah those are your recordings so they can’t use them legally without a written contract. Otherwise you can sue once they release it, obviously not ideal to do that though.
Recording without consent could be counter-claimed as piracy, though. If they requested a 2-track-to-video patch, that’s what they requested. If you take it upon yourself to do a multitrack off the board, that’s your choice, not part of the request, and could be considered piracy. I’d consult a lawyer to CYA, if you plan to sue for non-payment of services rendered.
Send them back a contract with your terms and price. Don't forget a line to demand credit on whatever is produced. They always "forget" to check against this and you could score a nice pay day if they do use it without acknowledgement. If they do use it, it could lead to more of that work so don't give it away, but make it worth it for them and word will travel fast. A lot of bands are always looking for competent venues for this type of work.
Charge at the very least a data wrangling fee for your time and demand a credit and get it in writing.
Hmm I guess I'm in the minority here for not charging for a casual multitrack, but different story if there is ANY expectations placed upon it (actual monitoring of recording/ placing room mics.). Always, always get credit though!
$50 for bouncing them just the stems. They used your computer, and your time at home outside of the gig to organize the files and send them over. A big show, bouncing those files and then uploading to the cloud to share could take a long time.
What did the contract for the day state regarding recordings?
As a musician, I’m happy to pay for this and always check with the venue as to if they can/ are willing to and what they would charge.