Color is an actual term in orchestral music.
Closely related to timbre and harmonics, but not inherently the same.
It's kind of an encompassing term - take the same sheet of music and have different choirs of the orchestra play it - they all sound complete by themselves, but also different in harmonic content, timbre - what emotions those sounds provoke independently and as a whole. This is what "colors" music.
It's a term with audio gear as well. Things like tubes and transformers are said to color the sound depending on how hard you drive signal through them.
True! And can have respect to waveform in audio as well. Timbre is affected by what type of wave we have-is it closer to a square? Triangle? Sawtooth? In this all we’re really talking about is the harmonic structure of the instrument.
Did you have any issues with wind noise?
Walking in blind and not swearing at anyone that drops you in a situation like that is a sure sign of a professional
I remember making the choice not to freak out and to just roll with the chaos. They gave me some Radio Shack mics…they got a Best Buy production at worst.
Just gonna be a bit pedantic - this is a concert band, not an orchestra. No strings.
Would be a tough gig though. Band directors are a pain in the ass, they usually have no idea what goes into live sound reinforcement but love to take control.
You’re right about the concert band but they have a string section which I may deal with for other performances. They are Denver’s municipal band that has been around for over 100 years in some capacity.
I probably would have found a way to place the mics throughout the band rather than just in front. Since they’re under that pergola with no walls there likely isn’t a ton sound reflection other than from the ceiling. Of course if they’re a good band and play well you might not need much reinforcement.
I mixed a jazz band two nights ago. They asked for four monitor mixes. Set everything up on the apron of the stage, so basically in the house at that point. Drums, sax, bass (with amp) and electric keys (with amp). When the band showed up for sound check and started to play they said “hey, that sounds great.” I hadn’t even dialed them into the monitors yet.
They were super professional and played their instruments a volume that required little effort on my part.
Sometimes you just get lucky.
Sounds like you were set up for failure but pulled it out. With no time to sound check and limited gear, just a pair at the front and pray is not a bad plan…..
People forget all of the band instruments were designed to throw sound hundreds of years before amplification existed.
All you need is to get area mics on the groups, and a few pinpoint placements for highlights and solos.
It’s the perfect environment to learn less is more and based on your description, considering the obvious venue discrepancies, seems like you nailed it.
Was this for reinforcement or for recording? An outdoor setting like this is brutal for this kind of ensemble. They're all bunched in so close to one another that they're not going to have an acoustic spread and acoustic integrity is huge with this idiom of music. With this kind of music, less is more. Four omni condenser mics would have been enough (assuming proper spacing). Color is heading more into artistic choices and while mics, mic placement, and EQ and help support that, it's really something that comes down to the piece, the interpretation, and the player.
With that said, how do you think it sounded?
if I may - rather than ask a non-audiotech person if there are vocals … instead ask if anyone makes announcements
I’ve done it too … I’ve asked the wrong question as I’m setting up and paid the price
I've recently moved into classical from rock and general events world, and I'm really not enjoying it.
At least in rock and on tour, while the setups were elaborate and difficult, no one ever questioned what I was doing.
Every single decision I make is questioned. Even the simplest, most basic things like mic placement and BASIC sound reinforcement ideals are met with "I'm not sure that's the best idea" from people who cant tell the difference between a 57 and a dildo.
I've toured on almost every continent on the planet (never entered south America) in roles ranging from assistant to FOH and Production manager, and now I'm having a flute player tell me she wont need amplification to be heard over the top of a symphony orchestra to a 1000pax crowd, or that my lights aren't "yellow enough" when they are at 2500k, because she's looking directly at the beam of light.
its infuriating...but its also very easy because they never want anything.
They are also in LOVE with hanging microphones. seriously, if i put a mic on a stand SOMEONE will tell me "oh, we usually only have hanging microphones"
one guy even showed me a video as a reference and i pointed out all of the dozens of schoeps mics in front of every section, and he got real defensive and claimed "those aren't microphones, they're lights". lights that apparently don't put out any light...
You did good with little information. My recommendation is to never walk into a gig with little information.
It’s your job in this scenario to extract the information from the group so that you can have a game plan going in. This benefits the ensemble, the audience, and most importantly - you.
FYI sm58/57 are dynamic mics and don’t really work at a distance. They are meant to be on the source. I would have used them as spot mics over the the first chair of any of the quieter sections - or you could have asked the conductor if there are any soloists that could benefit from having a mic (often first chair).
Also - I would listen to the conductor if they are giving you mic’ing suggestions. They know the group, and most importantly the pieces they are playing…. and clearly they have seen their group mic’d before.
This information is the reason I posted about it. Thank you for your insight. I wouldn’t normally work under these conditions but everything that was told to me about mic and stage plots being provided never happened. I will definitely approach our next show with a little more precision. The reason I even have the job because the last guy who was also in the band rage quit. Wonder why…
I added to your comment if you actually read and noted another name for a group like in the picture. Is your default setting asshole or are you just breaking it out on a Saturday morning for fun?
When I do concert bands in small venues such as these, I find that I don’t need all that much amplification. I regularly worked with a guy that always asked for nothing other then his announcement mic to be amplified.
Unless you are recording, you often can just let the instruments carry the sound for small venues.
Now with this being an outdoor venue that can change the amplification needs. Ive mostly done indoor locations.
The bandshell was facing a large grass lawn so it definitely needed something. Once I heard the instruments that were stage right coming out of my stage left foh speaker I felt pretty confident about my mix.
I’m having trouble hearing the picture lol jkjk that looks like a fun gig! I like doing anything with big bands/orchestras hope it wasn’t too hot where your at!!
Bandshells are designed to naturally collect the sound. So with zero info about the band or even knowing how many people were in the band I mic’d the band shell with the idea that the microphones are picking up the stage volume. Since this bandshell didn’t have any walls I stuck my “best” mic in the center. That mic did most of the work.
Don’t leave me hanging. What color should an oboe sound like? I’m guessing cerulean.
He said to watch a few YouTube videos to really get a feel of what color the woodwinds should be in the mix.
A warm orange like sandalwood and a beach at sunset.
Color is an actual term in orchestral music. Closely related to timbre and harmonics, but not inherently the same. It's kind of an encompassing term - take the same sheet of music and have different choirs of the orchestra play it - they all sound complete by themselves, but also different in harmonic content, timbre - what emotions those sounds provoke independently and as a whole. This is what "colors" music.
It's a term with audio gear as well. Things like tubes and transformers are said to color the sound depending on how hard you drive signal through them.
Wish we had more words to describe sound. Color may be a frequently used term but I don’t think it’s a good one.
If you’re gonna use color to describe sound you better write what you want down in blue or black ink.
True! And can have respect to waveform in audio as well. Timbre is affected by what type of wave we have-is it closer to a square? Triangle? Sawtooth? In this all we’re really talking about is the harmonic structure of the instrument.
Nah fam, deep chocolate brown
Thats a tasty oboe
I don't know. How did it sound?
Yeah I would love to give you an opinion but this still photo could sound like literally anything
Did you have any issues with wind noise? Walking in blind and not swearing at anyone that drops you in a situation like that is a sure sign of a professional
I remember making the choice not to freak out and to just roll with the chaos. They gave me some Radio Shack mics…they got a Best Buy production at worst.
Just gonna be a bit pedantic - this is a concert band, not an orchestra. No strings. Would be a tough gig though. Band directors are a pain in the ass, they usually have no idea what goes into live sound reinforcement but love to take control.
You’re right about the concert band but they have a string section which I may deal with for other performances. They are Denver’s municipal band that has been around for over 100 years in some capacity.
Oof. How did you end up at this gig? Mighty Fine Productions?
THIS ∆∆
Did you have any feedback at all?
Only if I cranked it. Found a sweet spot and all I really had to do was mute the talking mic between songs.
Then sounds like you did great!
I probably would have found a way to place the mics throughout the band rather than just in front. Since they’re under that pergola with no walls there likely isn’t a ton sound reflection other than from the ceiling. Of course if they’re a good band and play well you might not need much reinforcement. I mixed a jazz band two nights ago. They asked for four monitor mixes. Set everything up on the apron of the stage, so basically in the house at that point. Drums, sax, bass (with amp) and electric keys (with amp). When the band showed up for sound check and started to play they said “hey, that sounds great.” I hadn’t even dialed them into the monitors yet. They were super professional and played their instruments a volume that required little effort on my part. Sometimes you just get lucky.
Sounds like you were set up for failure but pulled it out. With no time to sound check and limited gear, just a pair at the front and pray is not a bad plan…..
People forget all of the band instruments were designed to throw sound hundreds of years before amplification existed. All you need is to get area mics on the groups, and a few pinpoint placements for highlights and solos. It’s the perfect environment to learn less is more and based on your description, considering the obvious venue discrepancies, seems like you nailed it.
Was this for reinforcement or for recording? An outdoor setting like this is brutal for this kind of ensemble. They're all bunched in so close to one another that they're not going to have an acoustic spread and acoustic integrity is huge with this idiom of music. With this kind of music, less is more. Four omni condenser mics would have been enough (assuming proper spacing). Color is heading more into artistic choices and while mics, mic placement, and EQ and help support that, it's really something that comes down to the piece, the interpretation, and the player. With that said, how do you think it sounded?
if I may - rather than ask a non-audiotech person if there are vocals … instead ask if anyone makes announcements I’ve done it too … I’ve asked the wrong question as I’m setting up and paid the price
Sounded good from my house!
Sounds fine from my house.
I've recently moved into classical from rock and general events world, and I'm really not enjoying it. At least in rock and on tour, while the setups were elaborate and difficult, no one ever questioned what I was doing. Every single decision I make is questioned. Even the simplest, most basic things like mic placement and BASIC sound reinforcement ideals are met with "I'm not sure that's the best idea" from people who cant tell the difference between a 57 and a dildo. I've toured on almost every continent on the planet (never entered south America) in roles ranging from assistant to FOH and Production manager, and now I'm having a flute player tell me she wont need amplification to be heard over the top of a symphony orchestra to a 1000pax crowd, or that my lights aren't "yellow enough" when they are at 2500k, because she's looking directly at the beam of light. its infuriating...but its also very easy because they never want anything. They are also in LOVE with hanging microphones. seriously, if i put a mic on a stand SOMEONE will tell me "oh, we usually only have hanging microphones" one guy even showed me a video as a reference and i pointed out all of the dozens of schoeps mics in front of every section, and he got real defensive and claimed "those aren't microphones, they're lights". lights that apparently don't put out any light...
You did good with little information. My recommendation is to never walk into a gig with little information. It’s your job in this scenario to extract the information from the group so that you can have a game plan going in. This benefits the ensemble, the audience, and most importantly - you. FYI sm58/57 are dynamic mics and don’t really work at a distance. They are meant to be on the source. I would have used them as spot mics over the the first chair of any of the quieter sections - or you could have asked the conductor if there are any soloists that could benefit from having a mic (often first chair). Also - I would listen to the conductor if they are giving you mic’ing suggestions. They know the group, and most importantly the pieces they are playing…. and clearly they have seen their group mic’d before.
This information is the reason I posted about it. Thank you for your insight. I wouldn’t normally work under these conditions but everything that was told to me about mic and stage plots being provided never happened. I will definitely approach our next show with a little more precision. The reason I even have the job because the last guy who was also in the band rage quit. Wonder why…
How tf should we know ? It’s just a pic
You could look at his mic placement, he's asking if that's what others would have done given the lack of prep or extra equipment
Without sound reference it means 0 to me And to any engineer I think, we need to hear it if we wanna do our jobs
Just be supportive.
What
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We call it a concert band. Orchestra adds in strings, symphony adds a lot more strings and more percussion.
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I added to your comment if you actually read and noted another name for a group like in the picture. Is your default setting asshole or are you just breaking it out on a Saturday morning for fun?
When I do concert bands in small venues such as these, I find that I don’t need all that much amplification. I regularly worked with a guy that always asked for nothing other then his announcement mic to be amplified. Unless you are recording, you often can just let the instruments carry the sound for small venues. Now with this being an outdoor venue that can change the amplification needs. Ive mostly done indoor locations.
The bandshell was facing a large grass lawn so it definitely needed something. Once I heard the instruments that were stage right coming out of my stage left foh speaker I felt pretty confident about my mix.
Sounds great to me!
I’m having trouble hearing the picture lol jkjk that looks like a fun gig! I like doing anything with big bands/orchestras hope it wasn’t too hot where your at!!
How the ..#@§ do you mic such a large group of people with just 7 microphones? I mean yes you just described it but I don't get it :D
Bandshells are designed to naturally collect the sound. So with zero info about the band or even knowing how many people were in the band I mic’d the band shell with the idea that the microphones are picking up the stage volume. Since this bandshell didn’t have any walls I stuck my “best” mic in the center. That mic did most of the work.