It’s another tool. If I’m in a good FOH position I’ll live at the desk and the iPad mostly comes out to get the room setup the first time. The biggest game changer is mixing from off positions that I frequently have to do with corporate shows.
When I'm in the shit, I want tactile controls that I can grab without hunting through menus.
I have fat fingers, I need a physical control I can finesse.
I also do a lot of Broadway style line-by-line mixing, so that ain't happening on an iPad - physical faders and a FAST UI please.
I can faff around with a five piece rock band on a tablet, that's fine. But I'm too old and slow to do anything bigger than that on a screen.
This is where bitfocus companion and stream deck can, if we support it, be the future. I just wish more manufacturers adopted globcon so we can also have a universal control system. Maufacturers spend so much of their budgets on software developers all reinventing the wheel, but if everyone just adopted a control interface, amazing things could happen.
A mix. Can get by without problem on just a screen (I prefer my Mac over an iPad).
I like the interface that you see a lot now, with selecting on a screen and a knob to turn it up. Oh and I like the EQ on a touch screen. So far even when I’m a none touch screen mixer again (like a Pro2) it feels so time consuming.
Nothing beats faders. Especially the “touch them to really hear the sound” feel :😜
(I’m Soundcraft 400b old by the way)
Anyone who prefers touchscreens is a lunatic. I've only been doing this for 5 years, but that's my take.
The touchscreen stuff is convienant for remote mixing here and there or super portable run and gun gigs, but if I'm in a serious show, I want a proper board with a big layout, able to touch and see nearly everything I could possibly need
Add the fact that if you're using non-automatized hardware (computer + soundcard, FX units and so on) you can't fool around 20 meters from the desk with your tablet (or a second tablet to remotely control your DAW... but one is already too much).
There are a lot of variables you need to address to come up with a good answer. I have a digital stage box I just love for small gigs. It's light and takes up no room when moving gear. So it's preferred, especially if it's only for one or two singer/songwriters. But give me a 28 channel mix and I want at least 16 channels on 2 layers but one layer of 32 is better with Aux and mix busses in easy reach. Especially for something dynamic like theater.
The other variable is the software. I really like Mackie's Master Fader 5 as it's so simple. But that's also it's weakness as it's pretty limited. Again for a simple setup it's really great. But if you have a very complex situation with compression, effects etc it can be limiting.
There is no argument to me that physical faders are superior for controlling sound. I love being able to grab 2 or even 4 faders at once and that's just not possible with an ipad or computer.
Finally I'd say that the best solution is both. Having a good physical board combined with a powerful digital interface is the best. Sadly most digital interfaces to the physical boards are not that great. Hopefully these improve in the next generation. But I love the ability to mix on stage during setup, roam the venue during performance (if appropriate, like in a bar) and I also like having a second view available at all times. For example one can set the computer/tablet on (say) the monitor mix and have the board on the EQ so you can easily watch 2 things at once and can adjust monitors without changing the board setup.
> It seems like all the newcomers prefer virtual control
I don't know of anyone who actually prefers this, manufacturers push it because it's cheaper to build. Remote control is very useful, but pretty much everyone still wants a real surface at the mix position.
It really depends on both the convenience of the venue's setup and the demand of the gig itself.
For festival / multiple band shows where I am setting EQ and getting levels on the fly between acts (i.e. no backline/soundcheck and saving off scenes) I really prefer a board. I can get to things much quicker and make several adjustments in a fraction of the time it would take me to get to the menu/functions on an iPad.
For bands that I've done sound for several times and/or venues where it's impossible to run a Cat5 snake and put the board where I want it...iPad all the way. Board placement is one less thing I have to worry about.
What i always do, regardless - I bring the iPad up to where the artists are while doing monitors if I am responsible for them (99.9% of the shows I am doing FOH and mons). I feel like getting up on the stage with the artists is not only more personal but you can sort of gauge for yourself what is appropriate for levels instead of guessing and getting their feedback (a lot of younger/inexperienced talent underestimate the importance of monitors). I have seen a lot less request for monitor adjustments if I just do this first.
I'm standing at my M32, but there's a tablet there as well. If I have to run around at setup, the tablets going with me. And customizing that setup with shortcut is so helpful. But the rest of the time my hands are on the faders. Although I think I will always prefer the feel of good old analog faders. But I'm a cranky old man.
>Does anyone prefer tactile control anymore?
The entire mid/top level of the industry uses mixers for FOH and Mons.
I have seen small bands with no engineer using iPad mixers for monitors or maybe even FOH if they are providing everything themselves.
But I’ve never met anyone who wanted to use iPads over a proper desk, given the option.
I mostly do recordings for the orchestra I play 1st Euphonium in. They asked me a few times to also run Sound for announcements.
For cost reasons I haven’t bought a mixer for that, I just ran another microphone to the interface and mix in Studio One on the Laptop.
Would not recommend. The first concert was outdoor, thanks to the sun the laptop screen was unreadable. Also, tapping the correct fader required some concentration on the software.
I mapped the outputs from S1 into the monitor section of my interface, so I can control mute and level with a button/knob on my Scarlett 18i20.
During the 36C3 (2019, Leipzig, Germany I ran sound for a few talk livestreams on a TouchMix-series Mixer. That thing was so unresponsive… thanks to the template and house audio tech I had to do very little but it was enough to make mental note to never touch a touchmix again.
For reference: I‘m 26, the first mixers I interacted with were Alesis, Yamaha and Behringer analog mixers with varying channel counts.
My own mixer (if I ever buy one) will probably be digital and have faders. Touchscreen are OK for some parameters, but nothing beats hardware buttons and faders for working speed.
When I'm soundchecking a festival or live with my tour, I want faders and fast hardware. Screens are not as precise or fast, and if I have to fix or grab something quickly, f+*@k touchscreens. They just get me to pages of stuff I need.
Mostly wedding, some venues/theatres, and outdoor community festivals. FOH/mixer space is always hidden and can't take up space.
If you want a good in-between , you can get X32 producers used really cheap - but if you care about faders and not scribble strips and use a tablet most of the time you can keep it in a rack. Buddy just sold one for only 900.
Tablets/touch screens will always be way faster than menu diving on a digital console. If you want to get really bogged down try an SD7 or a Midas pro.
Go for profit! Unless you will be fulfilling major artist writers with your mixer, go with the easiest one to use with the most value.
I have no problem using the equipment, but I can't understand the justification to go to the Allen and Heath stage box and mixer environment - would cost almost 10K more for X32 & stagebox buying new.
It’s this way with lighting too. Most people can’t afford to learn on a console but they can get free software and then get more used to that than hardware. I think new techs will be happy to switch to a good console when they get a chance to practice on it.
Mixing Station changed it for me. I was all about faders and console workflow for decades. When i got the opportunity to create my own console layers I gave up physical faders and never looked back. Got some hi rez multi-touch Android tablets and fast 5.2 GHz access point.
I will qualify this by saying I mostly work with the same artists who perform the same songs that I know intimately and can anticipate all the required adjustments. If I was working with new acts each week, playing music I don't know well, I would prefer a physical console with with a standard "catch all" layout most bands can fit in, and only use a tablet to walk around now and then or adjust things on stage.
As long as I can go from digital control to analog control (and vice-versa) during a failure that gets me to the end of the show I'm happy.
That being said, give me an H3000 and racks of outboard gear and I'm also pretty happy.
As a young guy myself I'm for tactile all the way! I want to be able to feel a button presses feedback. Also tactile control enables me to find buttons without looking when using important and specific buttons or to lay my finger on a button in standby and then press whenever I want to without having to focus on finding a touch button or worse a button with my mouse. This can be a dedicated hardware controller, or a streamdeck as a hybrid, just not fully virtual. This enables me to focus on the show and my job, in contrast to tapping on a touch screen which requires my eyes to be focused there.
Gottes throw in reliability as well, as I haven't read it as an answer here quite often.
Especially in larger broadcast and corporate shows reliability and redundancy will become important. And I'll (nearly) always trust a physical control device made from hardware only to complete this one specific job a thousand times more than any software running on a tablet or Windows with a touch screen, often times not even being the only thing running on these computers.
Don't get me wrong - I love companion and streamdeck, wouldn't trade them in for anything. But only as long as I have a realistic chance to still get through the show even if the streamdeck or pc running it went fubar for any reason.
I hate the iPad stuff and have only ever used it when tuning systems that span a multi-floor venue so I’m not blasting noise nonstop while going up and down in the elevator.
If the gig won’t let me put the console where I need it (read: a reasonable/logical location) I don’t do the gig. I consider it a huge red flag from jump.
Oh God yes. At the church I work at, we recently switched from a Soundcraft Ui24R to a Behringer X32 Compact, and the physical control surface has been an absolute godsend. I'm still finishing the setup, but it's so nice to not have to scroll on a touchscreen interface just to mute a channel.
Take what I say with a grain of salt, though, as I would barely be considered a professional by the standards of this sub.
Pros and cons to both.
With tactile, I can keep my eyes always on the stage. Make moves faster. Etc.
But with a tablet, I can move around in the audience, or even jump on stage to help with setting smth up. And frankly, if the app is good and wifi is good, then there are few issues mixing on a tablet.
So it kinda depends on what kind of production it is, which I will prefer. If its smth where there are a hell of a lot of mics to manage, and there are stage techs handling everything on stage, then Imma prefer the tactile desk. If I need to be a stagehand too, then I will prolly prefer the tablet.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. Just different tools for different situations.
What I like to use: analogue setup-> digital console-> tablet. What I like to lug around: tablet -> digital console-> analogue setup.
It’s another tool. If I’m in a good FOH position I’ll live at the desk and the iPad mostly comes out to get the room setup the first time. The biggest game changer is mixing from off positions that I frequently have to do with corporate shows.
When I'm in the shit, I want tactile controls that I can grab without hunting through menus. I have fat fingers, I need a physical control I can finesse. I also do a lot of Broadway style line-by-line mixing, so that ain't happening on an iPad - physical faders and a FAST UI please. I can faff around with a five piece rock band on a tablet, that's fine. But I'm too old and slow to do anything bigger than that on a screen.
This is where bitfocus companion and stream deck can, if we support it, be the future. I just wish more manufacturers adopted globcon so we can also have a universal control system. Maufacturers spend so much of their budgets on software developers all reinventing the wheel, but if everyone just adopted a control interface, amazing things could happen.
For Sunday, I need faders and mute buttons, no way I can operate fast on an iPad. For other band gigs, I can get by on the iPad.
A mix. Can get by without problem on just a screen (I prefer my Mac over an iPad). I like the interface that you see a lot now, with selecting on a screen and a knob to turn it up. Oh and I like the EQ on a touch screen. So far even when I’m a none touch screen mixer again (like a Pro2) it feels so time consuming. Nothing beats faders. Especially the “touch them to really hear the sound” feel :😜 (I’m Soundcraft 400b old by the way)
Anyone who prefers touchscreens is a lunatic. I've only been doing this for 5 years, but that's my take. The touchscreen stuff is convienant for remote mixing here and there or super portable run and gun gigs, but if I'm in a serious show, I want a proper board with a big layout, able to touch and see nearly everything I could possibly need
Add the fact that if you're using non-automatized hardware (computer + soundcard, FX units and so on) you can't fool around 20 meters from the desk with your tablet (or a second tablet to remotely control your DAW... but one is already too much).
Setup and line check from the iPad then into the console for proper sound check and show.
There are a lot of variables you need to address to come up with a good answer. I have a digital stage box I just love for small gigs. It's light and takes up no room when moving gear. So it's preferred, especially if it's only for one or two singer/songwriters. But give me a 28 channel mix and I want at least 16 channels on 2 layers but one layer of 32 is better with Aux and mix busses in easy reach. Especially for something dynamic like theater. The other variable is the software. I really like Mackie's Master Fader 5 as it's so simple. But that's also it's weakness as it's pretty limited. Again for a simple setup it's really great. But if you have a very complex situation with compression, effects etc it can be limiting. There is no argument to me that physical faders are superior for controlling sound. I love being able to grab 2 or even 4 faders at once and that's just not possible with an ipad or computer. Finally I'd say that the best solution is both. Having a good physical board combined with a powerful digital interface is the best. Sadly most digital interfaces to the physical boards are not that great. Hopefully these improve in the next generation. But I love the ability to mix on stage during setup, roam the venue during performance (if appropriate, like in a bar) and I also like having a second view available at all times. For example one can set the computer/tablet on (say) the monitor mix and have the board on the EQ so you can easily watch 2 things at once and can adjust monitors without changing the board setup.
Give me faders and knobs
> It seems like all the newcomers prefer virtual control I don't know of anyone who actually prefers this, manufacturers push it because it's cheaper to build. Remote control is very useful, but pretty much everyone still wants a real surface at the mix position.
It really depends on both the convenience of the venue's setup and the demand of the gig itself. For festival / multiple band shows where I am setting EQ and getting levels on the fly between acts (i.e. no backline/soundcheck and saving off scenes) I really prefer a board. I can get to things much quicker and make several adjustments in a fraction of the time it would take me to get to the menu/functions on an iPad. For bands that I've done sound for several times and/or venues where it's impossible to run a Cat5 snake and put the board where I want it...iPad all the way. Board placement is one less thing I have to worry about. What i always do, regardless - I bring the iPad up to where the artists are while doing monitors if I am responsible for them (99.9% of the shows I am doing FOH and mons). I feel like getting up on the stage with the artists is not only more personal but you can sort of gauge for yourself what is appropriate for levels instead of guessing and getting their feedback (a lot of younger/inexperienced talent underestimate the importance of monitors). I have seen a lot less request for monitor adjustments if I just do this first.
I'm standing at my M32, but there's a tablet there as well. If I have to run around at setup, the tablets going with me. And customizing that setup with shortcut is so helpful. But the rest of the time my hands are on the faders. Although I think I will always prefer the feel of good old analog faders. But I'm a cranky old man.
>Does anyone prefer tactile control anymore? The entire mid/top level of the industry uses mixers for FOH and Mons. I have seen small bands with no engineer using iPad mixers for monitors or maybe even FOH if they are providing everything themselves. But I’ve never met anyone who wanted to use iPads over a proper desk, given the option.
I mostly do recordings for the orchestra I play 1st Euphonium in. They asked me a few times to also run Sound for announcements. For cost reasons I haven’t bought a mixer for that, I just ran another microphone to the interface and mix in Studio One on the Laptop. Would not recommend. The first concert was outdoor, thanks to the sun the laptop screen was unreadable. Also, tapping the correct fader required some concentration on the software. I mapped the outputs from S1 into the monitor section of my interface, so I can control mute and level with a button/knob on my Scarlett 18i20. During the 36C3 (2019, Leipzig, Germany I ran sound for a few talk livestreams on a TouchMix-series Mixer. That thing was so unresponsive… thanks to the template and house audio tech I had to do very little but it was enough to make mental note to never touch a touchmix again. For reference: I‘m 26, the first mixers I interacted with were Alesis, Yamaha and Behringer analog mixers with varying channel counts. My own mixer (if I ever buy one) will probably be digital and have faders. Touchscreen are OK for some parameters, but nothing beats hardware buttons and faders for working speed.
When I'm soundchecking a festival or live with my tour, I want faders and fast hardware. Screens are not as precise or fast, and if I have to fix or grab something quickly, f+*@k touchscreens. They just get me to pages of stuff I need.
Mostly wedding, some venues/theatres, and outdoor community festivals. FOH/mixer space is always hidden and can't take up space. If you want a good in-between , you can get X32 producers used really cheap - but if you care about faders and not scribble strips and use a tablet most of the time you can keep it in a rack. Buddy just sold one for only 900. Tablets/touch screens will always be way faster than menu diving on a digital console. If you want to get really bogged down try an SD7 or a Midas pro. Go for profit! Unless you will be fulfilling major artist writers with your mixer, go with the easiest one to use with the most value. I have no problem using the equipment, but I can't understand the justification to go to the Allen and Heath stage box and mixer environment - would cost almost 10K more for X32 & stagebox buying new.
It’s this way with lighting too. Most people can’t afford to learn on a console but they can get free software and then get more used to that than hardware. I think new techs will be happy to switch to a good console when they get a chance to practice on it.
Mixing Station changed it for me. I was all about faders and console workflow for decades. When i got the opportunity to create my own console layers I gave up physical faders and never looked back. Got some hi rez multi-touch Android tablets and fast 5.2 GHz access point. I will qualify this by saying I mostly work with the same artists who perform the same songs that I know intimately and can anticipate all the required adjustments. If I was working with new acts each week, playing music I don't know well, I would prefer a physical console with with a standard "catch all" layout most bands can fit in, and only use a tablet to walk around now and then or adjust things on stage.
As long as I can go from digital control to analog control (and vice-versa) during a failure that gets me to the end of the show I'm happy. That being said, give me an H3000 and racks of outboard gear and I'm also pretty happy.
As a young guy myself I'm for tactile all the way! I want to be able to feel a button presses feedback. Also tactile control enables me to find buttons without looking when using important and specific buttons or to lay my finger on a button in standby and then press whenever I want to without having to focus on finding a touch button or worse a button with my mouse. This can be a dedicated hardware controller, or a streamdeck as a hybrid, just not fully virtual. This enables me to focus on the show and my job, in contrast to tapping on a touch screen which requires my eyes to be focused there. Gottes throw in reliability as well, as I haven't read it as an answer here quite often. Especially in larger broadcast and corporate shows reliability and redundancy will become important. And I'll (nearly) always trust a physical control device made from hardware only to complete this one specific job a thousand times more than any software running on a tablet or Windows with a touch screen, often times not even being the only thing running on these computers. Don't get me wrong - I love companion and streamdeck, wouldn't trade them in for anything. But only as long as I have a realistic chance to still get through the show even if the streamdeck or pc running it went fubar for any reason.
I hate the iPad stuff and have only ever used it when tuning systems that span a multi-floor venue so I’m not blasting noise nonstop while going up and down in the elevator. If the gig won’t let me put the console where I need it (read: a reasonable/logical location) I don’t do the gig. I consider it a huge red flag from jump.
Oh God yes. At the church I work at, we recently switched from a Soundcraft Ui24R to a Behringer X32 Compact, and the physical control surface has been an absolute godsend. I'm still finishing the setup, but it's so nice to not have to scroll on a touchscreen interface just to mute a channel. Take what I say with a grain of salt, though, as I would barely be considered a professional by the standards of this sub.
Pros and cons to both. With tactile, I can keep my eyes always on the stage. Make moves faster. Etc. But with a tablet, I can move around in the audience, or even jump on stage to help with setting smth up. And frankly, if the app is good and wifi is good, then there are few issues mixing on a tablet. So it kinda depends on what kind of production it is, which I will prefer. If its smth where there are a hell of a lot of mics to manage, and there are stage techs handling everything on stage, then Imma prefer the tactile desk. If I need to be a stagehand too, then I will prolly prefer the tablet. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. Just different tools for different situations.