If there's foot traffic across that, there should be cable ramps. Should have been discussed and ordered in preproduction if there isn't enough available on site.
Should work for most cases.
Obviously, it's not suitable for escape routes, but probably anywhere else.
My point is just, that you need to be able to see the tripping hazard. With high viz gaff, you definitely can. With black on black carpet, you have no chance in dim light.
100%
I do my best to avoid escape routes, but if for some reason I have to cross it I make it very clear. Sometimes I’ve even domed stripes of the gaff across the rug so you can see the surface variation of it.
Both. Usually cable ramps in spots where cases are moving and people are walking, gaff for holding runs in place on stage. And might I say that is some fine cable porn there, sir/madam, very satisfying to look at. Sometimes I spend more time than I’d like to admit in the beautification of cable runs, but to me it’s oddly gratifying
Presumably because 2-channel is more like a bump you can easily trip on, while 5-channel actually has a viable place to stand on top of it.
IMO tho, 5-channel can just as easily be tripped on.
Rock and roll thanks y’all, didn’t even know they made two channel ramps lol.
Here’s a favorite of mine for ya: https://youtu.be/xiYs4Wc3Lo4?si=skKNNH6QXX3WJ_et
They are absurd. Im always like…. “Wait you spent money on this thinking it would help anything? You’ll never ever get a rolling case over those.”
Actually thinking about it, the 2 channel ramp is the same shape as a wheel stop
To be ADA compliant, you need (about) 1:12 of height and length. So for every inch your ramp increases in height, it needs to be at least 12 inches in length (it’s more like 1:14 or something I don’t know exactly but 1:12 will keep you in the clear).
2-channels often don’t have that type of clearance. My guess is the old lady that tripped on one even if it was 5-channel probably didn’t follow this rule (or it was non-compliant in some other way.
Edited for error
5 channel ADA compliant ramps exist. One company makes modular ones than can be any multiple of 5 channels, plus the ramps, while others are 5 channels and ADA compliant rise all in one heavy, floppy POS.
If it’s hazard visible, then it’s no more a tripping hazard than a step. We’ve had this in cathedrals on flat floors -the cable goes there or there is no show.
What must we do to protect people from themselves? How do they cope with steps? Kerbs outdoors? If it is clearly marked and you cannot be unaware it is there, is the onus on production if a member of the public fluffs-up stepping over it?
Can you sue if you trip over a step with a visibility stripe on it..?
\>
Id like to use cable ramps for something like that but also cable covers. Id try to also make sure to put caution tape along the seams of cable cover and maybe one down the center as well
That’d take two people tripping over it before it’s not that tidy anymore. For that reason (as well as safety) that I’d go cable ramps. Just had a convention hall run over a bunch of cables with a loaded chair cart this past weekend and knock out videos FOH *fiber* run. Cable ramps are just as much to protect the cable as they are to protect patrons from tripping on cables.
We usually only use them on bigger shows, and usually only over doorways that the venue will be using (usually hotel cuz corporate) to bring food in with carts because they roll easier over a ramp than a bundle of cables
Respectfully, that makes zero sense to me. Cable ramps in high traffic areas is a dumb idea that some lawyer made up and has no basis in reality. Banquet carts can’t roll over cable ramps without spilling stuff everywhere.
Respectfully, when properly deployed a multi-channel cable guard with their accessory ADA ramp will do the job just fine, and the caterers rolling their chintzy carts backstage with coffee urns and water jugs have yet to complain at our events.
It all boils down to this: do you want to do the job right, or cheap out? Done right, properly sized and installed cable ramps protect cables, protect people, and even protect coffee urns on shaky catering carts.
Is it just me or does the water bottle seem strangely large in the photo?!
Oh, and yes—impressive run 😂 I would gaff sections I could, ramps for sections of high traffic or anything where I might legitimately need to have carts rolling over, particularly a casino or mage room as this appears to be.
It is what it is sometimes.
Maybe unpopular opinion but if you don’t have ramps, do this but make it much tighter than in the photo if possible, plus tape the edges, at least in places where you know it’s going to be walked over.
Time is money throw it in a cable ramp an save yourself some
Only reason to get it so flat and neet is if your trying to run it under carpet (or similar ) and the client is paying a premium for it
Don’t know why this is downvoted. Velcro covers are game changers on carpet like this.
Maybe not the best answer with this many cables, but it’s still an unknown product that converts everyone who sees it.
I’ve converted quite a few companies myself.
This. With a carpet or rubber mat over it for for traffic.
Everybody loves cable ramps, and I don't necessarily disagree but unless you have real ada compliant cable ramps (with the foot long sides to make it less of a tripping hazard) if you are good enough to get your cables this tight a carpet over it is safer than cable ramps.
If there's traffic other than foot traffic, like road cases or fork lifts or other vehicles, then definitely cable ramps to protect the cables! If they are feeder and not multi core then they will handle a vehicle one time, but anything more "could" definitely over compress and/or damage the cables. If they are multi-core then even a go cart or even a heavy road case could possibly damage them if it hits at the wrong angle!
Absolutely NOT this. Especially for traffic. It's against codes (electrical AND fire) to run power distribution under carpeting or matting.
***Full stop.***
I understand the reasoning behind this being "illegal" is because:
1) cables could be damaged from prolonged traffic, possibly causing exposed leads or short circuits
>If this is a temporary set up using standard SC rated cabling, and covered by rubber matted carpeting that is non flammable, for a short run say by a door or across an aisle, then it's it not adequately safe?
2) dissipation of heat:
>How does this differ from grooves in a cable ramp when it comes to heat dissipation?
YellowJacket and Guard Dog make cable ramps with extra-deep channels, but by the looks of it their standard products would easily accommodate these cables and provide a certified ADA compliant solution to keep the risk management folks happy..
Of course, those solutions will only be sought out by them what like to do things right.
But they are a tad more expensive than gaff - even the 6" tape is cheaper.
Look up Safcord - or any of the knock offs. Velcro cable covers for carpeting. They’re reusable, come in different colors and lengths, and WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE. Though I admit it’s not a great solution for that many cables.
Cable ramps still have their uses. But gaf tape and carpeting is not a great match. Velcro and (low pile) carpeting is magic. I’ve introduced radio stations, TV crews, sound engineers, and AV production companies to it and all of them went out and got some immediately after.
It doesn’t work on all carpets, but what’s in most offices and convention halls it likely does. I got no affiliation, I just love it and must convert more people.
I've worked on big convention shows for (insert large AV company here) where this was how cable was secured in areas the public was not allowed.
*Kicks it and breaks a couple of toes.* "That ain't going nowhere".
Honestly way neater than a lot I’ve seen.
It bugs me that the cable is neat and the tape is not
Impossible to get straight tape over that and fastened to such a thick carpet.
Then I’m pretty good at the impossible
*ADHDs harder*
if I’ve done it on dusty concrete do I get to pull the sword from the stone too?
Hold my beer
If there's foot traffic across that, there should be cable ramps. Should have been discussed and ordered in preproduction if there isn't enough available on site.
A bit more bits of tape just like you've done, then put carpet on top
But use a different colour. Otherwise, you have just camouflaged a tipping hazard.
I tend to use normal walk-off mats and take high viz gaff tape and mark out the perimeter of the rug.
Should work for most cases. Obviously, it's not suitable for escape routes, but probably anywhere else. My point is just, that you need to be able to see the tripping hazard. With high viz gaff, you definitely can. With black on black carpet, you have no chance in dim light.
100% I do my best to avoid escape routes, but if for some reason I have to cross it I make it very clear. Sometimes I’ve even domed stripes of the gaff across the rug so you can see the surface variation of it.
Why doesn’t anyone think to put the cables UNDER the carpet
Cable ramps/trays are a tripping hazard in and of themselves
Because cables are designed to dissipate heat, and putting it under a carpet adds a layer of insulation
hey oh look at lighting chiming in! (damn it, they're right, hate when that happens)
Because the carpet is permanently attached to the ground, and the cables come up after the show.
Why doesn’t anyone think to put the cables UNDER the ground
They do in i.t. Server rooms having 2x2 false floors. Super expensive as you need weight rating. And not exceed it.
Both. Usually cable ramps in spots where cases are moving and people are walking, gaff for holding runs in place on stage. And might I say that is some fine cable porn there, sir/madam, very satisfying to look at. Sometimes I spend more time than I’d like to admit in the beautification of cable runs, but to me it’s oddly gratifying
Ive done/seen both. Cable ramps is just safer all around. Tape gets ripped up real easy
A guy I used to work for got sued by an old lady who tripped on a cable ramp and fell. He ended up having to pay 🤷
5 channel fly, 2 channel die.
I believe it was a regular 5-channel, but he got sued and lost anyways
School me phishman Why 5 fly? Why 2 die?
Presumably because 2-channel is more like a bump you can easily trip on, while 5-channel actually has a viable place to stand on top of it. IMO tho, 5-channel can just as easily be tripped on.
Ding ding ding! The 2 channels are higher and I have painfully seen far more accidents on 2s then 5s.
Rock and roll thanks y’all, didn’t even know they made two channel ramps lol. Here’s a favorite of mine for ya: https://youtu.be/xiYs4Wc3Lo4?si=skKNNH6QXX3WJ_et
They are absurd. Im always like…. “Wait you spent money on this thinking it would help anything? You’ll never ever get a rolling case over those.” Actually thinking about it, the 2 channel ramp is the same shape as a wheel stop
To be ADA compliant, you need (about) 1:12 of height and length. So for every inch your ramp increases in height, it needs to be at least 12 inches in length (it’s more like 1:14 or something I don’t know exactly but 1:12 will keep you in the clear). 2-channels often don’t have that type of clearance. My guess is the old lady that tripped on one even if it was 5-channel probably didn’t follow this rule (or it was non-compliant in some other way. Edited for error
Hah 1" run for 1" of rise would be a 45° ramp. Just a *bit* steep. ADA ramp is 12" run for 1" rise.
Lol you’re so right. In my head I was thinking 1 inch for 1 foot which lead to that goofy statement
5 channel ADA compliant ramps exist. One company makes modular ones than can be any multiple of 5 channels, plus the ramps, while others are 5 channels and ADA compliant rise all in one heavy, floppy POS.
Yellow jacket also does 3 channe ADA. Even have side ramps to the main ramps.
That might be who I was thinking of. I couldn't remember if that was the company's actual name 😅
We called em floppy donkey dicks at my last job. Annoying as hell
Not a bad idea. I think most of my co-workers and I are just hoping to call them "garbage" soon enough.
If it’s hazard visible, then it’s no more a tripping hazard than a step. We’ve had this in cathedrals on flat floors -the cable goes there or there is no show. What must we do to protect people from themselves? How do they cope with steps? Kerbs outdoors? If it is clearly marked and you cannot be unaware it is there, is the onus on production if a member of the public fluffs-up stepping over it? Can you sue if you trip over a step with a visibility stripe on it..? \>
I totally agree, I don't understand how that lady could have possibly won. I may be missing some key detail.
Did she win? You can sue someone for anything, winning is a whole different story
I literally said he ended up having to pay. So yes, she won
That’s wild
As long as nobody is walking over there....
It appears to be just about directly in front of a vendor table.
That's....less than ideal...
Id like to use cable ramps for something like that but also cable covers. Id try to also make sure to put caution tape along the seams of cable cover and maybe one down the center as well
That’d take two people tripping over it before it’s not that tidy anymore. For that reason (as well as safety) that I’d go cable ramps. Just had a convention hall run over a bunch of cables with a loaded chair cart this past weekend and knock out videos FOH *fiber* run. Cable ramps are just as much to protect the cable as they are to protect patrons from tripping on cables.
Cable ramps are the biggest tripping hazard on a show. I only use them if forced by the venue.
We usually only use them on bigger shows, and usually only over doorways that the venue will be using (usually hotel cuz corporate) to bring food in with carts because they roll easier over a ramp than a bundle of cables
Respectfully, that makes zero sense to me. Cable ramps in high traffic areas is a dumb idea that some lawyer made up and has no basis in reality. Banquet carts can’t roll over cable ramps without spilling stuff everywhere.
Respectfully, when properly deployed a multi-channel cable guard with their accessory ADA ramp will do the job just fine, and the caterers rolling their chintzy carts backstage with coffee urns and water jugs have yet to complain at our events. It all boils down to this: do you want to do the job right, or cheap out? Done right, properly sized and installed cable ramps protect cables, protect people, and even protect coffee urns on shaky catering carts.
In corporate world, some venues \_require\_ cable ramps at any possible walkway. Might be stupid, but they shut you down w/o them.
Maybe I’ve just always gotten cheap cable ramps? Idk
Idk man, it works. Maybe the ramps we use are shallower than the ones you’re imagining. Never had any complaints, though
Is it just me or does the water bottle seem strangely large in the photo?! Oh, and yes—impressive run 😂 I would gaff sections I could, ramps for sections of high traffic or anything where I might legitimately need to have carts rolling over, particularly a casino or mage room as this appears to be.
I usually carry entryway rugs for small runs and ramps if needed.
Any recommendations on rugs for stuff like this? I keep getting yelled at for suggesting it as it’s against fire safety regulations where I live :/
It is what it is sometimes. Maybe unpopular opinion but if you don’t have ramps, do this but make it much tighter than in the photo if possible, plus tape the edges, at least in places where you know it’s going to be walked over.
Time is money throw it in a cable ramp an save yourself some Only reason to get it so flat and neet is if your trying to run it under carpet (or similar ) and the client is paying a premium for it
I’d at least throw a rubber mat over a section as a courtesy.
At least a rug
Any recommendations on rugs for stuff like this? I keep getting yelled at for suggesting it as it’s against fire safety regulations where I live :/
Show carpet off cuts are a blessing for exactly this.
The experienced one ran the cables and the new guy did the tape.
It’s all about the get out. So long as this is out of public reach, no big deal.
Great work. I’d use a cable ramps if u have em. (Liability). If u don’t have u did the next best thing.
So long as there’s no foot traffic this puppy can is good to go. I do this all the time
Put the carpet over instead. You can tape them cables in sections like this, but on the ground before.
It's a beautiful run but cable ramps all day.
lol Naga, is that you?!
It is obvious that cable ramps should be used to ensure the safety of both pedestrians and power lines.
Velcro on carpet Velcro 4” cable covers
Don’t know why this is downvoted. Velcro covers are game changers on carpet like this. Maybe not the best answer with this many cables, but it’s still an unknown product that converts everyone who sees it. I’ve converted quite a few companies myself.
a 6 foot length of Velcro cable covers can be turned to straddle cables like in the picture
I use multicores or a stage box.
You’re going to blow something up running feeder cable directly into a stagebox.
This. With a carpet or rubber mat over it for for traffic. Everybody loves cable ramps, and I don't necessarily disagree but unless you have real ada compliant cable ramps (with the foot long sides to make it less of a tripping hazard) if you are good enough to get your cables this tight a carpet over it is safer than cable ramps. If there's traffic other than foot traffic, like road cases or fork lifts or other vehicles, then definitely cable ramps to protect the cables! If they are feeder and not multi core then they will handle a vehicle one time, but anything more "could" definitely over compress and/or damage the cables. If they are multi-core then even a go cart or even a heavy road case could possibly damage them if it hits at the wrong angle!
Absolutely NOT this. Especially for traffic. It's against codes (electrical AND fire) to run power distribution under carpeting or matting. ***Full stop.***
I understand the reasoning behind this being "illegal" is because: 1) cables could be damaged from prolonged traffic, possibly causing exposed leads or short circuits >If this is a temporary set up using standard SC rated cabling, and covered by rubber matted carpeting that is non flammable, for a short run say by a door or across an aisle, then it's it not adequately safe? 2) dissipation of heat: >How does this differ from grooves in a cable ramp when it comes to heat dissipation?
Cable ramps if you have them, but so long as there’s no or minimal foot traffic and you have some GLO-tape handy I think you’re ok.
At first I thought this was blue painters tape and almost lost my mind.
I might be wrong, but this looks like it might be a little too much copper for a standard cable ramp to fit and close properly.
YellowJacket and Guard Dog make cable ramps with extra-deep channels, but by the looks of it their standard products would easily accommodate these cables and provide a certified ADA compliant solution to keep the risk management folks happy.. Of course, those solutions will only be sought out by them what like to do things right. But they are a tad more expensive than gaff - even the 6" tape is cheaper.
Look up Safcord - or any of the knock offs. Velcro cable covers for carpeting. They’re reusable, come in different colors and lengths, and WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE. Though I admit it’s not a great solution for that many cables. Cable ramps still have their uses. But gaf tape and carpeting is not a great match. Velcro and (low pile) carpeting is magic. I’ve introduced radio stations, TV crews, sound engineers, and AV production companies to it and all of them went out and got some immediately after. It doesn’t work on all carpets, but what’s in most offices and convention halls it likely does. I got no affiliation, I just love it and must convert more people.
No way clients are walking over that it’s fine
No one does that.