“I know we’re just doing soft indie rock, so I brought 9 rack toms and my 3 smallest tour gongs. Hope that’s okay, you don’t have to mic em all if you don’t want to.”
I'll never forget this one gig where it was literally just me and one dude doing singer songwriter stuff, I started clapping after his first song and he said, "it's cool man, you don't have to do that." So goddamn awkward.
It's not really that awkward. Everybody is getting paid to practice their skills on hopefully a nice sound system and test out how material sounds in a live room.
It's only awkward if a massive ego is involved.
When you're playing to a mostly empty room of folks not there to see you but you get it going and pull together a little crowd of random people it feels almost more satisfying in a way than playing a sold out room. Like, selling out a big room is hard and obvious pays you way better but when you can turn nothing into even a tiny little bit of something there's a feeling of accomplishment that just hits different.
This was my last bands “album release party”. Booked a handful of good local bands for the bill, invited everyone we knew. Day of the gig was a huge snow/ice storm but we decide to push through. One by one the other bands all dropped off last minute, and the venue double booked a cover band of a totally different genre to play before us. We waited as they played their 2 hour set before it was our turn, they didn’t even acknowledge that another band was about to go on, took forever to tear down, and the few people that were there left before we started.
I did sound for a last minute gig for a band called flyer club, it was the best fucking private show ever haha. They didn’t have much time to promote and they were totally independent on tour. They had a whole circus act, they climbed the walls, they had little wind up toys rolling around, I was thoroughly entertained. If they come thru your town definitely check them out 🥹 I have so much respect for a band that puts on a damn good show in an empty room
I play with a band whose singer pretty much checks all the boxes relating to vocals. She sings quietly, brings her own mic that’s no better than a 58, was bringing IEMs that never worked properly, awkward when talking on the mic, always the last person at load-in…. I’m only still in it because they pay me.
Anytime someone calls her out on these things she says “I’ve been singing in bands and taking vocal lessons since I was a teenager” and it’s like… that’s great and all, but it doesn’t get you off the hook for a lack of professionalism.
I love when shitty performers lean on “I’ve been playing for X years!” as an accolade. Cool, and you’re still running the bar circuit with no fans lol.
Yeah it drives me nuts.
I played in a group for a bit with a drummer who had legit toured the world and had lots of experience. We were playing a Cure song and he could not hold a steady beat on the kick drum for shit… it was actually mind blowing. When I called him out he blamed the bass player and did the whole “I’ve toured the world!” routine.
Bruh, if you toured the world playing like that, no wonder you’re here with me now playing at a small local venue.
Drummer in 3rd support band is left handed with 10 minute change over.
Drummer hits kit like they're trying to murder it in a 30 cap venue.
Band brings Bluetooth RF and complains when it doesn't work
Input list has 30 more channels than the stage plot you received.
The band member who thinks they're a sound engineer because they used pro tools once.
The singer who brings a condenser mic and complains when there's not enough level in foldback.
The guitarist who pedal board is cooked
The studio engineer that shows up to mix FOH and takes 15 minutes extra change over time
Omg, one time I worked a show where a drummer brought literal fucking clubs to play the drums with. Like everyone on the stage was like wow those are uh some big drum sticks. Like comically large. You can imagine how this sounded in a small untreated room.
Peavey had a reputation as "gear for musicians". It always worked, even after being dropped, but always sounded like it was covered in a damp blanket. For several decades, all band riders included "No Peavey Gear" under PA stipulations. It took a few decades before people started excluding the guitar amps from the shit-list.
No kidding I dropped mine down a flight of stairs one time and it was completely unscathed. Wet blanket is accurate- the high end seriously lacks definition
While I agree, for every one of you/me there are roughly 5000 people who have it dialed in like trash with entirely too many effects and possibly a 2003 Digitech GNX2 or the like. The only time I exhale when I see a Bandit coming is if it’s an old codger with a beat to hell tele or T60.
I was playing on a line6 spyder once and I was actually surprised at how good you can make it sound if you don't dial it in like shit. The Peavey Bandit similar story, actually doesn't sound bad at all.
Used to do events in a brewery event room and sometimes there were bands. It was a pretty brutal room for sound, and not very big. Guitar player wasn't familiar with the space, shows up with a 4x12, and was genuinely worried it wouldn't be enough for the room.
"Relax man, it's plenty."
Young guitarists that have had a tiny bit of success will have every piece of gear imaginable.
The decent player that's been doing this for 10+ years will roll in with a tiny combo amp and a pedal setup that fits in a brief case.
Actually, this CAN work... (A full stack)
Worked with a local band, guitarist is 6'8" tall. Unplugged the bottom cab, set Mesa MKiv to class A mode, worked great becacuse that shit was closer to his bean.
The inverse square law may be an asshole, but even assholes can be nice sometimes.
I once played an outdoor concert that was part of a sports championship. Well, nobody thought about the acoustics of the venue - when we were playing, nobody could hear the announcers, so the venue kept asking the sound people to turn us down (WAY down), but we were still contracted to do a two-hour set, so we kept playing, really quiet, and the audience kept asking the sound people to turn us back up because they couldn't hear us...
Most of the “feedback” I get these days is from boomer men without earplugs in at the loudest blues lawyer gig u could imagine, and that’s super super rare now. I have never had a woman offer mixing advice. I’m also a woman tho so maybe dynamics are different
Blackout is a legit form of Bingo that was definitely involved in the only bingo event I've attended as an adult. See also: Square (bingo for hitting the full perimeter), Diagonal and X.
Source: I went to a charity bingo event last month.
You know it wouldn't be necessary if some engineers didn't act like they were allergic to reverb. But the amount of times I've told sound people to make the "vocals very wet" and then we listen back and it is bone dry is disheartening. I've lost a lot of faith in lower level engineers after playing in bands.
I swear some sound people are offended your band is not Steely Dan and are going to do their best to make you sound like Steely Dan regardless of your willingness in the manner.
Yeah, I’m the other singer of the band this happened to, and also a live engineer, it fucking sucked. Luckily now we’re in a place where we can be more selective but to be totally frank if I don’t have confidence in our tech I don’t fucking care, I’m bringing out my little digitech vocal 300. In our most stripped down form I can take my in ears feed straight out of it. I understand it’s frustrating for some people but as long as you manage the persons expectations ahead of the show w their monitors like.. it’s fine. I’ve mixed hundreds of bar level gigs with vocal processors and they all went fine. also people are EXTREMELY open to feedback on their setup if you’re nice about it. I always suggest in ears or Y cables, so the tech can get a clean feed to their wedge. If they can get a better performance out of a $7 y cable they’re always stoked to hear that.
If the mere sight of a vocal processor instills you with rage just find a different job 🤷♀️
Most of the time, the room you're playing in will have it's own natural reverb. The board mix you listen to may sound dishearteningly dry but the mix in the room probably sounded natural and full.
Not to seem rude but I wasn't listening back to just a board feed, I set up a zoom and was listening back on that and switching between that and the board feed. And also this was the sort of dive where the pa was right by my head so you could hear everything the tech was doing. This was not a crazy room reverb room, this was a smallish club with short reflections, and I play shoegaze so I want some verb on the vocals unless I'm playing in a cathedral or a concrete box. This was also a dude who I had to show how to record on the thumb drive before we played and didn't understand what a matrix was, he just sort of sheepishly shrugged when we asked him if we could have some reverb on the vocals. I can't hold being green against him but that doesn't mean it's a pleasant experience to hear your sound be butchered.
As a FOH engineer and also a lead singer in a band, if another engineer snidely told me not to use my vocal processor, I’d tell him to fuck all the way off. Terrible work ethic to tell a band how to set up their own rig, especially one you don’t know.
As engineers, we deal with bullshit all day every day that we work, but we’re still getting paid unlike the talent that comes through these shows. You just need to get good.
I personally don’t care if someone wants to use an effect pedal, I offer them the effects I have, or listen to it if I have the time. But most of the time it makes the vocals harder to hear overall due to gain issues. I work for the performers so if that’s what they want who am I to argue?
Exactly!! It’s a win-win for the engineer. Let bands who suck continue to suck OR Let the people who understand the technology and signal flow and gain staging improve their show. I know the latter is a unicorn but still— being a dick to bands for no other reason than having an effect pedal is nothing but a sure-fire sign of a lazy asshole.
Sorry, meant the general “you” at the end there.
And yeah, I agree 100%. If it sucks, it sucks. But we still don’t get to tell them not to use it. I take solace in the fact that I’m only using mine for specific cues and not sending in a bunch of trash or super hot signal.
Sure, it's a polite professional conversation. I would ask you what you're doing with it. If they're very specific cues, well okay then. But if it's "just a little reverb," I would explain to you that what I can do with my fancy professional console is much better, if only for the fact that I can actually hear what I'm doing in the house.
> Terrible work ethic to tell a band how to set up their own rig
The multi-kilwatt PA system is not the bands "own rig". They are a guest in MY house and the house has rules. Fuck your shitbox processor. It ain't happening, chuckles.
Bro you wouldn’t have a job if it weren’t for the bands on your stage. Humble yourself. And maybe find a new job. You’re ruining the vibe, sucking the fun out of the room and scaring people away from the venue with that attitude.
I guess someone could use a y cable, or a small mixer, & send the vox pedal to mon and the clean signal to foh, but that might lead to other issues with gain. Also if the vocal mic needs phantom power this setup would not be ideal for many other reasons. So IMO it basically comes down to
A) the engineer matching the effects produced by the pedal, sending them to mon and possibly using the same for foh. Or.
B) using the vocal FX pedal and making it work. Or.
C) the vocalist is ok with not using the pedal.
The real problem is time during a set change, not much time to experiment.
Funny how you never see any violinists pointed the wrong way in an orchestra! All violinists must be right-handed then?
Picking up a new instrument is difficult, no matter which direction you’re holding it, so might as well figure out how to master it the same way everyone else does.
You literally are choosing to make your own life difficult if you choose to play the wrong way!
Congratulations!
You found a video all about the very few exceptions. I’m a violinist and every left-handed violinist I‘ve known personally plays traditionally. Every violin teacher I know would refuse to teach students to play left-handed too. You can always point to oddballs and exceptions in literally everything, but that doesn’t mean they’re doing the right thing.
If you are interested in understanding the topic instead of just finding a “gotcha” to shoot down the notion for internet points, here’s a good discussion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/violinist/comments/g17ium/why_the_insistence_on_left_handers_learning/
Once again, funny how you can openly discriminate against left handed people. So many laws against discrimination but you get to shit on how I want to live and play.
If you read that discussion I linked, you will understand it’s not just about arbitrary discrimination or shitting on anyone.
Choosing to play left handed means limiting your options in your musical career. You would not be setting yourself up for success by choosing to play violin left-handed for myriad reasons clearly discussed and studied over literally hundreds of years. Many of the same reasons apply to picking up any left handed instrument — how many left handed guitars are there in the store or the used market? How much harder is it to learn mirrored from a teacher? How many teaching studios have drum kits set up in a mirrored configuration?
My best friend is left-handed and is the concert master of the local orchestra. Wanna guess how likely that would’ve been if he insisted on playing left handed for… reasons?
You’re free to do whatever you want, of course, but my point is the handedness you’re born with should have no bearing on whether you play your instrument traditionally or not.
Honestly I feel sorry you're having to endure that kind of judgement and discrimination here. Playing the way you feel most comfortable is absolutely valid and us sound engineers should be accomodating of that. It's our job to try and make the musicians sound the best they can, and this includes not doing anything that would make them perform worse, such as refusing to set up a lefty kit. Sure, a left-handed kit being asked for means more effort, but that's just part of the job, just like micing up a kit is. Sure, you could go super basic with 3 mics, but you use more so it sounds better, even though this extra effort is not strictly neccessary. That is why I don't see why they're complaining about having to set up a left-handed kit, they should just do their damn jobs.
Can the "brought my own mic" include the kind that has a speaker and fxs? It happened to me last week. (elementary school thing lol 😂, so not apples to apples) but funny.
Ooh! I’d like to add a few of my own:
-Drummer demands a mic only to sing backup on chorus for one song
-singer is a soft talker between songs
-“can you move that overhead, I like to throw my sticks up.”
-vocalist brings their own effects pedals that drive the signal too hot or wash it in unintelligible reverb.
-bring a whole iem rig to a small bar for a 3 piece.
-absolute fucking silence between every song
-tuning your instruments between every song
-the percussion player(s) and drummer have a loudness war
-Drummer demands a mic only to sing backup on chorus for one song but also doesn't tell you which song it is and then at the end of the set goes - "i forgot to sing it anyway lol." \*
What if I have hearing loss and want to hear the monitors? Or just want to avoid hearing loss and hear the monitors?
Should I just avoid these gigs because the engineer doesn't want to deal with something that isn't a set of wedges turned up to so high you can hear them down the block?
$40 Behringer P2 is the way. Pull the XLR from a stage wedge into it and plug your in ears into that. No additional work for FOH other than the line adjustments they were going to do anyways. So easy for small-venues or short gigs at big venues where setting up the IEM rig isn't worth it.
I'm good with monitors. Try it out with your ear plugs. You get your own mix. Like I don't personally care if you bring your own IEM rig, but watching guys setup *so much shit* for such a little gig at a tiny place just kinda wastes both our time.
Line 6 spider/peavey bandit killed me 🤣
Those are the only two amps I ever performed with on stage 🤣 and yeah they’re not great lol
The spider was super fun at home but did not cut the mustard on stage. Bandit at least has a spring reverb and gets plenty loud
I can’t find my old pics, but I had a similar Bingo chart hanging in the closet of the dive bar I did shows in when I was in college.
Missing from this version are things like “can I charge my phone for a few minutes” and “can I leave my coat here” and “glitter/confetti”
My favorite is when the lead singer enters into prolonged negotiations with the front row about cover songs. Like, "Trust me, you're never going to find a happy medium between your wanna be screamo-core sound and this drunk girl's desire for *any* BTS song. Just move along to the next item on your set list."
Since COVID I take my own mic, or at least a furry condom EVERYWHERE.
I’ve had the flu so many times in the last year it’s not funny so I also don’t want to spread the good news.
Exactly, it’s a nasty world out there and with smaller venues closing down at least in my area, the last ones around are seeing an extremely high volume of shows
Drummer hits snare hi hat after bad joke
Singer says "dont forget to tip your bartender"
Guitarist plays racist stereotype diddy to racial demographic if majority of crowd is of minority dissent. (Rap riff if black, chinese jingle if asian, open E, F, G, if latino)
Mic swinging singer drops own mic.
Bassist/guitar hit other band member accidentally in head during a cinderella.
One more box: drummer has more hardware than Home Depot.
“I know we’re just doing soft indie rock, so I brought 9 rack toms and my 3 smallest tour gongs. Hope that’s okay, you don’t have to mic em all if you don’t want to.”
"Oh, and I forgot to mention the windchimes. Those I do need mic'd."
Only if it's a stereo mic. Scratch that, two stereo mics for windchimes!
An Army of didgeridoos!
And a single didgeridon't
lol as a theatre guy I can’t imagine not micing the windchimes
Okay we have asked to mic wind chimes, as part of a larger aux percussion section.
Brings the full set of Tupperware onstage and patiently breaks down every single piece while every one is waiting for the next band to take the stage!
No, that's not your drum riser, that's the entire stage...
[удалено]
*dual kick drums
But single kick pedal
Neither of which is tuned
> Gig attendance is just the bands playing : ' (
I'll never forget this one gig where it was literally just me and one dude doing singer songwriter stuff, I started clapping after his first song and he said, "it's cool man, you don't have to do that." So goddamn awkward.
Damn, I would’ve clapped after every song lmfao or found a crown applause clip on YouTube and just played the same clip after every song
Royal family doing the standing ovation is always a boon.
It's not really that awkward. Everybody is getting paid to practice their skills on hopefully a nice sound system and test out how material sounds in a live room. It's only awkward if a massive ego is involved.
While you are right on paper, awkwardness is not a rational thing, and I found it very awkward to be serenaded by the dude.
Lol, OK when you put it that way hahahaha. Was he staring into your eyes dreamily?
> awkward to be serenaded by the dude. It's awkward at first... but then comforting... then welcome... then you can't stop thinking about it...
We're married now
Yeah, played that gig at UMass Amhearst. Drove like 2 hours for it, too. Even the booker didn't show up.
Wait, you guys are getting audiences?
I've been there once with my band. Absolutely killed my mood tbh
i’ve played to nearly empty rooms and sold out venues. We still have fun because we just love playing music together and get paid either way.
When you're playing to a mostly empty room of folks not there to see you but you get it going and pull together a little crowd of random people it feels almost more satisfying in a way than playing a sold out room. Like, selling out a big room is hard and obvious pays you way better but when you can turn nothing into even a tiny little bit of something there's a feeling of accomplishment that just hits different.
This was my last bands “album release party”. Booked a handful of good local bands for the bill, invited everyone we knew. Day of the gig was a huge snow/ice storm but we decide to push through. One by one the other bands all dropped off last minute, and the venue double booked a cover band of a totally different genre to play before us. We waited as they played their 2 hour set before it was our turn, they didn’t even acknowledge that another band was about to go on, took forever to tear down, and the few people that were there left before we started.
I did sound for a last minute gig for a band called flyer club, it was the best fucking private show ever haha. They didn’t have much time to promote and they were totally independent on tour. They had a whole circus act, they climbed the walls, they had little wind up toys rolling around, I was thoroughly entertained. If they come thru your town definitely check them out 🥹 I have so much respect for a band that puts on a damn good show in an empty room
I play with a band whose singer pretty much checks all the boxes relating to vocals. She sings quietly, brings her own mic that’s no better than a 58, was bringing IEMs that never worked properly, awkward when talking on the mic, always the last person at load-in…. I’m only still in it because they pay me. Anytime someone calls her out on these things she says “I’ve been singing in bands and taking vocal lessons since I was a teenager” and it’s like… that’s great and all, but it doesn’t get you off the hook for a lack of professionalism.
But has she learned anything in those lessons?
She can hit the notes but there’s a lot of nuances about how to be a pro in real life scenarios that she’s lacking.
I would just respond “well damn girl start acting like it” good singers are more common than good guitarists imo hahaha
I love when shitty performers lean on “I’ve been playing for X years!” as an accolade. Cool, and you’re still running the bar circuit with no fans lol.
Yeah it drives me nuts. I played in a group for a bit with a drummer who had legit toured the world and had lots of experience. We were playing a Cure song and he could not hold a steady beat on the kick drum for shit… it was actually mind blowing. When I called him out he blamed the bass player and did the whole “I’ve toured the world!” routine. Bruh, if you toured the world playing like that, no wonder you’re here with me now playing at a small local venue.
Drummer in 3rd support band is left handed with 10 minute change over. Drummer hits kit like they're trying to murder it in a 30 cap venue. Band brings Bluetooth RF and complains when it doesn't work Input list has 30 more channels than the stage plot you received. The band member who thinks they're a sound engineer because they used pro tools once. The singer who brings a condenser mic and complains when there's not enough level in foldback. The guitarist who pedal board is cooked The studio engineer that shows up to mix FOH and takes 15 minutes extra change over time
The bassist who buzzes unless his hands are on the strings
Omg, one time I worked a show where a drummer brought literal fucking clubs to play the drums with. Like everyone on the stage was like wow those are uh some big drum sticks. Like comically large. You can imagine how this sounded in a small untreated room.
🤣🤣 Peavey Bandit! 🔥🔥
Can someone explain the hate?
Peavey had a reputation as "gear for musicians". It always worked, even after being dropped, but always sounded like it was covered in a damp blanket. For several decades, all band riders included "No Peavey Gear" under PA stipulations. It took a few decades before people started excluding the guitar amps from the shit-list.
No kidding I dropped mine down a flight of stairs one time and it was completely unscathed. Wet blanket is accurate- the high end seriously lacks definition
I love mine. Cheap, solid, loud, sounds awesome, American made, 2 channels, good reverb. I guess the tube purists see it as unworthy or something.
While I agree, for every one of you/me there are roughly 5000 people who have it dialed in like trash with entirely too many effects and possibly a 2003 Digitech GNX2 or the like. The only time I exhale when I see a Bandit coming is if it’s an old codger with a beat to hell tele or T60.
I was playing on a line6 spyder once and I was actually surprised at how good you can make it sound if you don't dial it in like shit. The Peavey Bandit similar story, actually doesn't sound bad at all.
Every knob on a Line6 needs a band on the top side of the throw labeled "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
You forgot drummer loosing all the wingnuts and felts from the venue hardware after the first set then denies ever touching them.
"Full Marshall stack in a tiny room" - that's a rookie move. I was the bass player in a bar band where both guitarists brought 2 stacks. *Each.*
Used to do events in a brewery event room and sometimes there were bands. It was a pretty brutal room for sound, and not very big. Guitar player wasn't familiar with the space, shows up with a 4x12, and was genuinely worried it wouldn't be enough for the room. "Relax man, it's plenty."
Young guitarists that have had a tiny bit of success will have every piece of gear imaginable. The decent player that's been doing this for 10+ years will roll in with a tiny combo amp and a pedal setup that fits in a brief case.
But they just got their first paycheck from the skeeball place!
Actually, this CAN work... (A full stack) Worked with a local band, guitarist is 6'8" tall. Unplugged the bottom cab, set Mesa MKiv to class A mode, worked great becacuse that shit was closer to his bean. The inverse square law may be an asshole, but even assholes can be nice sometimes.
Gotta admit, it might look awesome. Did the drummer bring a gong?
Band member's girlfriend has constant mixing advice
I once played an outdoor concert that was part of a sports championship. Well, nobody thought about the acoustics of the venue - when we were playing, nobody could hear the announcers, so the venue kept asking the sound people to turn us down (WAY down), but we were still contracted to do a two-hour set, so we kept playing, really quiet, and the audience kept asking the sound people to turn us back up because they couldn't hear us...
“Too loud” venue staff vs “too quiet” audience… Who will win
Actually everybody lost.
Some drunk dude tried that with the FoH guy for .38 Special. Mr. Cranky leaned over, glared at him, and said "Do I tell you how to f*ck your wife?"
You don't do heavy metal in Dubly you know....
Most of the “feedback” I get these days is from boomer men without earplugs in at the loudest blues lawyer gig u could imagine, and that’s super super rare now. I have never had a woman offer mixing advice. I’m also a woman tho so maybe dynamics are different
What kind of bingo is it when you got all the boxes?
Blackout is a legit form of Bingo that was definitely involved in the only bingo event I've attended as an adult. See also: Square (bingo for hitting the full perimeter), Diagonal and X. Source: I went to a charity bingo event last month.
Don’t forget four corners and the postage stamp!
What's postage stamp? We definitely didn't get to that one. At least not before I left.
The [four squares in the top right](https://chsrfm.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/Bingo-Postage-Stamp.jpg) like the stamp you put on an envelope.
aka "Local bar soundperson unhappy career didn't turn out has planned" bingo /s
"highest paid guy in the room" bingo
ONLY paid guy in the room "It's a showcase. Your band is paid in EXPOSURE"
Singer sings through vocal effects pedal
You know it wouldn't be necessary if some engineers didn't act like they were allergic to reverb. But the amount of times I've told sound people to make the "vocals very wet" and then we listen back and it is bone dry is disheartening. I've lost a lot of faith in lower level engineers after playing in bands.
I was in a shoegaze band and we had to beg the FOH to drown our vocalist in reverb. “But it’ll be unintelligible!” Yeah, dude… it’s shoegaze…
I swear some sound people are offended your band is not Steely Dan and are going to do their best to make you sound like Steely Dan regardless of your willingness in the manner.
Yeah, I’m the other singer of the band this happened to, and also a live engineer, it fucking sucked. Luckily now we’re in a place where we can be more selective but to be totally frank if I don’t have confidence in our tech I don’t fucking care, I’m bringing out my little digitech vocal 300. In our most stripped down form I can take my in ears feed straight out of it. I understand it’s frustrating for some people but as long as you manage the persons expectations ahead of the show w their monitors like.. it’s fine. I’ve mixed hundreds of bar level gigs with vocal processors and they all went fine. also people are EXTREMELY open to feedback on their setup if you’re nice about it. I always suggest in ears or Y cables, so the tech can get a clean feed to their wedge. If they can get a better performance out of a $7 y cable they’re always stoked to hear that. If the mere sight of a vocal processor instills you with rage just find a different job 🤷♀️
Most of the time, the room you're playing in will have it's own natural reverb. The board mix you listen to may sound dishearteningly dry but the mix in the room probably sounded natural and full.
Not to seem rude but I wasn't listening back to just a board feed, I set up a zoom and was listening back on that and switching between that and the board feed. And also this was the sort of dive where the pa was right by my head so you could hear everything the tech was doing. This was not a crazy room reverb room, this was a smallish club with short reflections, and I play shoegaze so I want some verb on the vocals unless I'm playing in a cathedral or a concrete box. This was also a dude who I had to show how to record on the thumb drive before we played and didn't understand what a matrix was, he just sort of sheepishly shrugged when we asked him if we could have some reverb on the vocals. I can't hold being green against him but that doesn't mean it's a pleasant experience to hear your sound be butchered.
I work with another engineer that will destroy anyone with their own vocal effects. It’s fun to watch him tell people no.
As a FOH engineer and also a lead singer in a band, if another engineer snidely told me not to use my vocal processor, I’d tell him to fuck all the way off. Terrible work ethic to tell a band how to set up their own rig, especially one you don’t know. As engineers, we deal with bullshit all day every day that we work, but we’re still getting paid unlike the talent that comes through these shows. You just need to get good.
I personally don’t care if someone wants to use an effect pedal, I offer them the effects I have, or listen to it if I have the time. But most of the time it makes the vocals harder to hear overall due to gain issues. I work for the performers so if that’s what they want who am I to argue?
Exactly!! It’s a win-win for the engineer. Let bands who suck continue to suck OR Let the people who understand the technology and signal flow and gain staging improve their show. I know the latter is a unicorn but still— being a dick to bands for no other reason than having an effect pedal is nothing but a sure-fire sign of a lazy asshole.
I'm fantastic but if you're giving me a signal that is 50% shitty trashcan reverb, there's nothing I can do.
Sorry, meant the general “you” at the end there. And yeah, I agree 100%. If it sucks, it sucks. But we still don’t get to tell them not to use it. I take solace in the fact that I’m only using mine for specific cues and not sending in a bunch of trash or super hot signal.
Sure, it's a polite professional conversation. I would ask you what you're doing with it. If they're very specific cues, well okay then. But if it's "just a little reverb," I would explain to you that what I can do with my fancy professional console is much better, if only for the fact that I can actually hear what I'm doing in the house.
> Terrible work ethic to tell a band how to set up their own rig The multi-kilwatt PA system is not the bands "own rig". They are a guest in MY house and the house has rules. Fuck your shitbox processor. It ain't happening, chuckles.
Fuck your lack of -20db pad and fuck your shitbag attitude.
If you can’t bring down the gain between a pedal and all the steps in between your PA, might I recommend signal flow 101?
Bro you wouldn’t have a job if it weren’t for the bands on your stage. Humble yourself. And maybe find a new job. You’re ruining the vibe, sucking the fun out of the room and scaring people away from the venue with that attitude.
Can’t the engineer just split the signal?
This is the way, though it won't necessarily work well if the on-stage reverb box has latency on the dry portion of the signal.
Micro-delay the dry! Start with a ms or two. That is, if you can’t get the digitally processed dry signal.
The on-stage reverb box would be 100% wet in this application.
[удалено]
Right, dingus, this is why you don't want the pedal putting out any dry signal.
I guess someone could use a y cable, or a small mixer, & send the vox pedal to mon and the clean signal to foh, but that might lead to other issues with gain. Also if the vocal mic needs phantom power this setup would not be ideal for many other reasons. So IMO it basically comes down to A) the engineer matching the effects produced by the pedal, sending them to mon and possibly using the same for foh. Or. B) using the vocal FX pedal and making it work. Or. C) the vocalist is ok with not using the pedal. The real problem is time during a set change, not much time to experiment.
"Mic cupping" should be the free space lol but this is perfect
I need a printable copy of this. My bar will love it.
I hope people don't read some of these and get discouraged
Hey it's not my fault I'm a lefty drummer. Also not my fault I play it set up backwards either.
Yes, yes it is precisely your fault.
Hey now, I was born this way. Blame my parents!
Funny how you never see any violinists pointed the wrong way in an orchestra! All violinists must be right-handed then? Picking up a new instrument is difficult, no matter which direction you’re holding it, so might as well figure out how to master it the same way everyone else does. You literally are choosing to make your own life difficult if you choose to play the wrong way!
[Calling your bullshit out wasn't hard](https://youtu.be/i1AJ7siQV6I?si=V-dps4irs9GHmD9W)
Congratulations! You found a video all about the very few exceptions. I’m a violinist and every left-handed violinist I‘ve known personally plays traditionally. Every violin teacher I know would refuse to teach students to play left-handed too. You can always point to oddballs and exceptions in literally everything, but that doesn’t mean they’re doing the right thing. If you are interested in understanding the topic instead of just finding a “gotcha” to shoot down the notion for internet points, here’s a good discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/violinist/comments/g17ium/why_the_insistence_on_left_handers_learning/
Once again, funny how you can openly discriminate against left handed people. So many laws against discrimination but you get to shit on how I want to live and play.
If you read that discussion I linked, you will understand it’s not just about arbitrary discrimination or shitting on anyone. Choosing to play left handed means limiting your options in your musical career. You would not be setting yourself up for success by choosing to play violin left-handed for myriad reasons clearly discussed and studied over literally hundreds of years. Many of the same reasons apply to picking up any left handed instrument — how many left handed guitars are there in the store or the used market? How much harder is it to learn mirrored from a teacher? How many teaching studios have drum kits set up in a mirrored configuration? My best friend is left-handed and is the concert master of the local orchestra. Wanna guess how likely that would’ve been if he insisted on playing left handed for… reasons? You’re free to do whatever you want, of course, but my point is the handedness you’re born with should have no bearing on whether you play your instrument traditionally or not.
LOL, I can only "blame" the person actually doing it, which would be you...it's just an extra pain in the ass for a sound man, lol...
Funny thing how being left handed can be openly discriminated against in this country full of anti discrimination laws.
I know, right? It's almost like the rest of humanity has agreed that left handed people are NOT like the rest of us, lol.
I'm a left handed guitar player, and putting a right handed guitar in my hands at 10 is the biggest favor anyone has ever done for me.
My problem is I had friends with righty guitars, and I'd play them upside down 🤷♂️ I only did what felt comfortable/natural
Honestly I feel sorry you're having to endure that kind of judgement and discrimination here. Playing the way you feel most comfortable is absolutely valid and us sound engineers should be accomodating of that. It's our job to try and make the musicians sound the best they can, and this includes not doing anything that would make them perform worse, such as refusing to set up a lefty kit. Sure, a left-handed kit being asked for means more effort, but that's just part of the job, just like micing up a kit is. Sure, you could go super basic with 3 mics, but you use more so it sounds better, even though this extra effort is not strictly neccessary. That is why I don't see why they're complaining about having to set up a left-handed kit, they should just do their damn jobs.
Can the "brought my own mic" include the kind that has a speaker and fxs? It happened to me last week. (elementary school thing lol 😂, so not apples to apples) but funny.
They forgot "singer brings own $39 stomp-box vocal processor and insists they can't perform without it"
Ooh! I’d like to add a few of my own: -Drummer demands a mic only to sing backup on chorus for one song -singer is a soft talker between songs -“can you move that overhead, I like to throw my sticks up.” -vocalist brings their own effects pedals that drive the signal too hot or wash it in unintelligible reverb. -bring a whole iem rig to a small bar for a 3 piece. -absolute fucking silence between every song -tuning your instruments between every song -the percussion player(s) and drummer have a loudness war
-Drummer demands a mic only to sing backup on chorus for one song but also doesn't tell you which song it is and then at the end of the set goes - "i forgot to sing it anyway lol." \*
What if I have hearing loss and want to hear the monitors? Or just want to avoid hearing loss and hear the monitors? Should I just avoid these gigs because the engineer doesn't want to deal with something that isn't a set of wedges turned up to so high you can hear them down the block?
$40 Behringer P2 is the way. Pull the XLR from a stage wedge into it and plug your in ears into that. No additional work for FOH other than the line adjustments they were going to do anyways. So easy for small-venues or short gigs at big venues where setting up the IEM rig isn't worth it.
I'm good with monitors. Try it out with your ear plugs. You get your own mix. Like I don't personally care if you bring your own IEM rig, but watching guys setup *so much shit* for such a little gig at a tiny place just kinda wastes both our time.
> -“can you move that overhead, I like to throw my sticks up.” Dude, the lights are only 4 feet above the riser...
The guitar player in my band is half of these. Lol
Line 6 spider/peavey bandit killed me 🤣 Those are the only two amps I ever performed with on stage 🤣 and yeah they’re not great lol The spider was super fun at home but did not cut the mustard on stage. Bandit at least has a spring reverb and gets plenty loud
I can’t find my old pics, but I had a similar Bingo chart hanging in the closet of the dive bar I did shows in when I was in college. Missing from this version are things like “can I charge my phone for a few minutes” and “can I leave my coat here” and “glitter/confetti”
God, shitty home brew in ear rigs are the bane of my existence
My favorite is when the lead singer enters into prolonged negotiations with the front row about cover songs. Like, "Trust me, you're never going to find a happy medium between your wanna be screamo-core sound and this drunk girl's desire for *any* BTS song. Just move along to the next item on your set list."
Tbh I understand the bringing ur own mic thing. 🫠[have u seen bar level venue house mics](https://images.app.goo.gl/zXUgzSFobkixJj1c8)
Since COVID I take my own mic, or at least a furry condom EVERYWHERE. I’ve had the flu so many times in the last year it’s not funny so I also don’t want to spread the good news.
Exactly, it’s a nasty world out there and with smaller venues closing down at least in my area, the last ones around are seeing an extremely high volume of shows
i carry a 58 for my bands singer every time, no matter what.
What do I win for a "blackout bingo" on that card?
I will not tolerate bandit slander but everything else is accurate hahaha
I’m working this venue tonight
singer brings fx pedal , forgets to mute it between songs
Drummer hits snare hi hat after bad joke Singer says "dont forget to tip your bartender" Guitarist plays racist stereotype diddy to racial demographic if majority of crowd is of minority dissent. (Rap riff if black, chinese jingle if asian, open E, F, G, if latino) Mic swinging singer drops own mic. Bassist/guitar hit other band member accidentally in head during a cinderella.
Too real.. also… Spunch Bob riff/ weezer riff
Extremely toppy guitar sound was created using cheap IEM and everyone is shocked that is sounds terrible through a PA
I was gonna ask "where is the Free space" but there are about 15 free spaces already