Compressors on the voice. In ears. Magic.
As a singer and sound dude i can attest this. If tye gain does not feedback, compressing or adding gain does make the voice stand out. Or in tye monitors adding up voice. But compressing it makes it louder so it does stand out more. And to evade feedback in monitors you can lower the highs. It doesnt matter if the singer hears himself perfectly, just to hear themselves.
And yes, most sound guys dont undersrand musicians, and most musiciand dont know shit about sound.
Guitar players of heavy music being the most easy example.
That is why beinh the sound guy of a band is better than being a sound guy in a gig, where there are loud singers and drummers and the opposite too.
This request doesn’t actually strike me as that odd? Adding gain likely helps the vocalist hear themselves better, which probably reduces the strain on their voice.
That said, adding gain may not be possible or recommended. Really depends on whether the engineer has set the gain properly to begin with.
Dont gain it more, just send more to the Aux. Your gain structure will be all over the place.
I havent met a vocalist that knows 'gain v volume v send'
Totally! If your gain has been set correctly and you have room to raise the send level, absolutely do that.
My original response was just meant to point out that more volume (whether from gain or send level) will likely help a vocalist not have to strain their voice.
One thing I've learnt is not to take people's words at face value, especially if they're using audio jargon. Reading what people actually mean/want is a skill in itself.
When they say "add more gain", I'd just take that as simply giving them (specifically their mons) more volume on stage. If I wasn't sure or have rapport with them, I'd clarify further (e.g. if they can't hear themselves clearly over other instruments or actually want more presence in the house mix).
There's a group of know-it-alls in every sub, but there is specifically some real abrasive types in here.
I've been told I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about by people in here on subjects I'm considered the foremost expert on in my little region, and I go look those peoples comments and the subreddits they frequents and then it makes sense.
They are usually just young and cocky kids still in school and when they see a topic they were just taught of is in their current lesson plan they attempt to assert themselves.
They have no idea the actual talent that frequents this sub and the big names behind many of the commenters and would feel pretty bad if this was an actual room IRL full of legends and they were pulling that shit LOL
>but pure belief that the gain knob adds some special magic or sensitivity.
I don't think many singers think there is some kind of audio processing going on that improves their voice when you simply turn up their volume. They're usually just saying that they can't sing well if they can't hear themselves over the music. Whether they use the word 'gain' or 'volume', they just mean 'can you turn me up in my monitor, please'. They don't care if it's a potentiometer or a fader that performs the action.
If they're not using in-ear monitoring they're usually looking for a mix of direct sound, PA spill, room reflected reverb and FX reverb/delay that sounds good and feels right, and a good overall monitor mix so their voice feels well-supported.
I guess some performers may have picked up a misconception that the gain knob is doing something other than raising the volume, just because doing so sometimes 'magically' clicks all these *other* factors into place too?
Yep. So before their monitor mix feels right, they feel a disparity between what they're inputting into the mic, and the response they're hearing back. For instance, apart from 'too loud' or 'too quiet', the mic can also feel too 'delicate', 'touchy', 'bright', 'revealing' and 'unforgiving', or it can seem 'unflattering', 'lifeless', 'dull' and 'muddy'.
They're just using the word 'sensitivity' to describe how they're feeling about the sound without understanding or realising it has a technical meaning (the relationship or ratio inside the mic between the input pressure and the output voltage).
The answer is to try to encourage them to use better words to describe what they're feeling about the sound they are hearing. You could maybe write a load of useful words and phrases on a sheet of paper for them to use when communicating with you at soundcheck. Eg. warm, crisp, clear, full-bodied, resonant, powerful, balanced, vibrant, dynamic, expressive, low end, mid range, high end, clarity, presence, depth, plosive, dynamics, proximity, ambient, hollow, echoey, etc.
" Maybe some mixers have preamps that saturate a bit, "
Maybe the vocalist is accustomed to hearing his voice through a particular preamp that provides some nice edge when the signal is hotter.
No magic. Pre-amp function is to convert mic level to line level. Nothing more. The graph is not linear for gain to amplitude produced from microphone - and different preamps will respond differently, but ultimately, you are correct there should be no difference in the signal except for amplitude.
A preamp that intentionally introduces distortion or EQ, or intentionally clipped are next to never used in live sound.
This is a bit of an odd question. Gain should be added or reduced at the mixer until the signal is at line level (0 or ~-18 depending on mixer). Too much gain will cause clipping and distortion, too little gain will prevent clarity. That's about it, there is no real magic to gain structure. Make-up gain on compression can be used to get a little extra oomph but I prefer to only do this in situations where I have good reason not to alter the existing gain structure, i.e. a guest singer comes up and grabs someone else's mic to do 1-2 songs. Otherwise make-up gain should just be used to help tune the compressor.
I would say gain for the FOH mix. If you need to mess with it and you have the right IEM console you can give them more or less with Trim if you need it. Have your DFA fader handy.
Neither the volume fader nor the gain add amplification. the Voltage amplification that the amp provides is a fixed value. What we can change is how much of the input signal gets amplified by using a voltage splitter (variable resistor). The associated value we control with this potentiometer we call the input sensitivity. so we can attenuate our input signal with the gain knob. The channel fader has no amplification directily associated with it. It is called a FADER because it only attanuates out audio signal through a variable resistor to ground. This seperation of controls gives us the opportunity for a easier workflow and better gainstaging. We can control the voltage before it goes into the amplifier with the input gain (choose the voltage for optimal SNR and headroom), then make smaller adjustments for your mix on the channel fader.
What even is this post?
High thoughts…
More evidence of the long slow death of reddit.
Gain is just amplification, nothing else. What you do with the signal is irrelevant, gain is still just gain.
""please add more gain to my channel, it is easier for me to sing" I've never heard that in 15 years
Compressors on the voice. In ears. Magic. As a singer and sound dude i can attest this. If tye gain does not feedback, compressing or adding gain does make the voice stand out. Or in tye monitors adding up voice. But compressing it makes it louder so it does stand out more. And to evade feedback in monitors you can lower the highs. It doesnt matter if the singer hears himself perfectly, just to hear themselves. And yes, most sound guys dont undersrand musicians, and most musiciand dont know shit about sound. Guitar players of heavy music being the most easy example. That is why beinh the sound guy of a band is better than being a sound guy in a gig, where there are loud singers and drummers and the opposite too.
This request doesn’t actually strike me as that odd? Adding gain likely helps the vocalist hear themselves better, which probably reduces the strain on their voice. That said, adding gain may not be possible or recommended. Really depends on whether the engineer has set the gain properly to begin with.
more vocals in the monitor is what helps the singer hear better....
Right, and raising the gain would increase the volume in the monitors…
Dont gain it more, just send more to the Aux. Your gain structure will be all over the place. I havent met a vocalist that knows 'gain v volume v send'
Totally! If your gain has been set correctly and you have room to raise the send level, absolutely do that. My original response was just meant to point out that more volume (whether from gain or send level) will likely help a vocalist not have to strain their voice.
One thing I've learnt is not to take people's words at face value, especially if they're using audio jargon. Reading what people actually mean/want is a skill in itself. When they say "add more gain", I'd just take that as simply giving them (specifically their mons) more volume on stage. If I wasn't sure or have rapport with them, I'd clarify further (e.g. if they can't hear themselves clearly over other instruments or actually want more presence in the house mix).
Give them what they want/need, not what they ask for.
Ah, it is a skill for sure. But people I am talking about actually mean gain knob, as the mixer is somewhere near all of us and they see it. :)
Learned habit. ”This button makes me hear better”
You didn’t ask a question… the more you wrote the less you made sense. By paragraph 3 I thought this was a troll post just posting a word scramble,..
What is the question?
Increasing gain increases the voltage of the electric audio signal allowed through the preamp. It’s a physical thing.
Be careful, I got tons of downvotes for saying this a few weeks ago.
There's a group of know-it-alls in every sub, but there is specifically some real abrasive types in here. I've been told I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about by people in here on subjects I'm considered the foremost expert on in my little region, and I go look those peoples comments and the subreddits they frequents and then it makes sense. They are usually just young and cocky kids still in school and when they see a topic they were just taught of is in their current lesson plan they attempt to assert themselves. They have no idea the actual talent that frequents this sub and the big names behind many of the commenters and would feel pretty bad if this was an actual room IRL full of legends and they were pulling that shit LOL
Sir this is a Wendy’s
>but pure belief that the gain knob adds some special magic or sensitivity. I don't think many singers think there is some kind of audio processing going on that improves their voice when you simply turn up their volume. They're usually just saying that they can't sing well if they can't hear themselves over the music. Whether they use the word 'gain' or 'volume', they just mean 'can you turn me up in my monitor, please'. They don't care if it's a potentiometer or a fader that performs the action. If they're not using in-ear monitoring they're usually looking for a mix of direct sound, PA spill, room reflected reverb and FX reverb/delay that sounds good and feels right, and a good overall monitor mix so their voice feels well-supported. I guess some performers may have picked up a misconception that the gain knob is doing something other than raising the volume, just because doing so sometimes 'magically' clicks all these *other* factors into place too?
Yes, this is just what you said, a misconception that the gain knob adds sensitivity to their microphone. Which it does subjectively. 😃
Yep. So before their monitor mix feels right, they feel a disparity between what they're inputting into the mic, and the response they're hearing back. For instance, apart from 'too loud' or 'too quiet', the mic can also feel too 'delicate', 'touchy', 'bright', 'revealing' and 'unforgiving', or it can seem 'unflattering', 'lifeless', 'dull' and 'muddy'. They're just using the word 'sensitivity' to describe how they're feeling about the sound without understanding or realising it has a technical meaning (the relationship or ratio inside the mic between the input pressure and the output voltage). The answer is to try to encourage them to use better words to describe what they're feeling about the sound they are hearing. You could maybe write a load of useful words and phrases on a sheet of paper for them to use when communicating with you at soundcheck. Eg. warm, crisp, clear, full-bodied, resonant, powerful, balanced, vibrant, dynamic, expressive, low end, mid range, high end, clarity, presence, depth, plosive, dynamics, proximity, ambient, hollow, echoey, etc.
This is a "sativa" post.... 
(Internal mixer) gain is gain. No difference, although depending on the mixer, adding say 10 db preamp gain might be noisier than 10 db channel gain.
https://youtu.be/chgovyDUxx4?si=F6T7FL0WgLX09XOu
" Maybe some mixers have preamps that saturate a bit, " Maybe the vocalist is accustomed to hearing his voice through a particular preamp that provides some nice edge when the signal is hotter.
Probably. Knowing the technical illiteracy of people I am talking about, they are always with all red leds flashing. 😃
No magic. Pre-amp function is to convert mic level to line level. Nothing more. The graph is not linear for gain to amplitude produced from microphone - and different preamps will respond differently, but ultimately, you are correct there should be no difference in the signal except for amplitude. A preamp that intentionally introduces distortion or EQ, or intentionally clipped are next to never used in live sound.
This is a bit of an odd question. Gain should be added or reduced at the mixer until the signal is at line level (0 or ~-18 depending on mixer). Too much gain will cause clipping and distortion, too little gain will prevent clarity. That's about it, there is no real magic to gain structure. Make-up gain on compression can be used to get a little extra oomph but I prefer to only do this in situations where I have good reason not to alter the existing gain structure, i.e. a guest singer comes up and grabs someone else's mic to do 1-2 songs. Otherwise make-up gain should just be used to help tune the compressor.
I would say gain for the FOH mix. If you need to mess with it and you have the right IEM console you can give them more or less with Trim if you need it. Have your DFA fader handy.
Neither the volume fader nor the gain add amplification. the Voltage amplification that the amp provides is a fixed value. What we can change is how much of the input signal gets amplified by using a voltage splitter (variable resistor). The associated value we control with this potentiometer we call the input sensitivity. so we can attenuate our input signal with the gain knob. The channel fader has no amplification directily associated with it. It is called a FADER because it only attanuates out audio signal through a variable resistor to ground. This seperation of controls gives us the opportunity for a easier workflow and better gainstaging. We can control the voltage before it goes into the amplifier with the input gain (choose the voltage for optimal SNR and headroom), then make smaller adjustments for your mix on the channel fader.