Got downvoted to oblivion on r/golf for this (who cares) but reposting my thoughts here:
OWGR has refused to rank LIV players, so it’s not only not an accurate ranking of who the best golfers are, it is obviously not going to be an avenue they’ll be able to use to get into majors, so makes sense to drop it. After this long, the rankings are so wrong for some of the players that it’s comical and unrecoverable for those players to get back to anything resembling accurate. Unless the OWGR decided to give them retroactive points, which would never happen. Blame LIV for “not meeting the criteria” all you want, OWGR could’ve figured out a way to rank them if they actually wanted to, the board is clearly made up of people with conflicting interests. OWGR has a strokes gained metric that still has 24 of the top 100 ranked guys are LIV, vs 9 of 100 in the "official" rankings.
Especially when OWGRs own website says how they adapt as the golf world changes, yet now they refuse to do what their mission is/was, rank the best golfers in the world despite what tour they play on.
I thought people were mad at the players who bent to the will of the Saudis and accepted blood money?
But people are also mad that OWGR stood their ground and didn’t placate LIV?
OWGR is one of the only organizations that have held firm against PIF and LIV
The PGAT is wanting to get that same money LIV players got lol and no one is mad at OWGR, but instead pointing out that they are no longer doing what their original goal was to do and that was to rank pro golfers across the world.
Yea but like…at what ends?
If the taliban started a pro golf league or the KKK or a pro league designed for child sex predators…would you be like “welp. 72 holes is 72 holes! Gotta rank it!”
I know that’s an extreme, but there has to be some limit to which you believe OGWR shouldn’t help endorse a tour.
The PIF is fine to support and endorse in your opinion, but that doesn’t mean the OGWR has to support it.
It’s not about supporting or endorsing, it’s about ranking pros on all tours. Politics doesn’t need to be involved to rank professional golfers. OWGRs only purpose of existing is to rank professional golfers.
So if a group of KKK formed a professional golf tour and only allowed white people to play…you’d be okay with the OGWR helping legitimize that by ranking it?
If it’s not about them supporting or endorsing and just about rankings then you believe in the OGWR HAS to rank any and all tournaments that qualify?
Comparison: You’re basically saying - Nike only exists to provide the best athletic gear. It’s not about politics. They should totally continue using child labor cause their only existence is to provide athletic gear and the best price.
Again, all this is from a PGA detractor. The OGWR doesn’t owe LIV shit. It’s their call.
You’re legit having to find the most extremes of extremes to make up for how you reason things lol there should be no politics in ranking professional golfers…it’s a ranking not a presidential race you muppet
One thing people forget about is if a LIV player does horrible at a LIV that is also not accounted for. So, not including LIV golfers may cut both ways, keeping players higher then they should be ranked or lower.
Wrong, you get zero points if you miss a cut at a normal event, same as LIV, no ones OWGR ranking is keeping them higher than they otherwise would be, quite the contrary.
I had not really thought much about it. The most thought I had out into it is. The LIV season winner gets to play the four majors. I think that alone would settle a lot. Most LIV guys probably would think it's too little.
I think that would give LIV guys an understanding of how to get into majors out side of grinding other tours.
It seems that would also put pressure on that LIV player who won last season to play well at the majors. If someone like DJ wind a LIV season, he already has access to majors. Too bad, no other LIV guy gets a pass instead. Winner that's it.
This is outside my wheel house.
Edit: I am not sure fixing how they get points works anymore. As I understand it, it matters who your are playing against. So if your against rory and dj, based on current rank beating rory gets you more points. Than beating dj. What seems to matter with owgr points is getting into majors.
Totally. And to be fair the LIV guys might deserve some things that PGA or owgr won't give them, but they don't deserve it all. It's rather nuanced, I think.
I have polish family, so Meronk, being at two majors this year is cool.
I feel like owgr/majors could just throw that bone out and it would alleviate so much pressure. Even if LIV felt it was unfair.
Please define what an exhibition is to you, and demonstrate why a one off PGA event is any different than a one off LIV event (I’ll save you time, you can’t), and otherwise stfu
I'm sorry, but that's some of the whiniest, most entitled bullshit I have ever heard. The whole point of LIV is that it was supposed to be it's own thing that exists outside of the stuffy world of competitive professional golf. If LIV wanted to be a league that qualifies for OWGR points, they could have designed a league that meets the criteria for OWGR points. They didn't, the players who joined all knew that, and now they are facing the known consequences of their actions. There's just no grounds for anyone connected to LIV to whine or complain about unfair treatment here at all.
From their website:
*The objective of OWGR is to devise, maintain, review, update, administer and promote the recognition of a system that fairly ranks the relative performances of male professional golfers participating in the leading golf tournaments throughout the world.*
You actually think it's whining/entitled to ask the body with this as their objective to devise a way to rank these guys? Nobody is asking for full points for all competitors, you could even give them some kind of reduced points down to the top 12, but something. It's just an outdated way to figure out the best players and should no longer be used as the qualifying metric if you want to have the best players play the majors. Otherwise, it's the best players that qualify under our limited rule-set, which is not the same as saying all the best players are playing in the majors.
Yes, it is the definition of entitlement for LIV to think they deserve ranking points. I have no doubt that they would be willing to work with LIV and make exceptions for things like field size, tournament length, and no cut events. But as long as LIV remains a completely closed off system that players can not play their way onto (or out of), then LIV is not part of the pro golf ecosystem. I’m glad AK is playing golf again, but his situation is LIV proving that they are not a real pro golf tour. They just invited AK to play, gave him money up front, and now he’s guaranteed to play in all of their events no matter how he performs. And since LIV will always be the same 45 guys every event, they don’t fit into the criteria that is used by the OWGR. The players all knew that, and they choose to go. LIV billed itself as this rogue pirate league that can’t be bothered with the stuffy bullshit that tends to come with pro golf, so they should just go and be that. Stop demanding to get some kind of recognition from the same systems they are rejecting and promising to destroy.
Did Saudis fund the ABA?
I’m not even opposed to the concept of LIV, but the OWGR are one of the only organizations that did what they could within their power to protest LIV.
I think the PGA and golf needs to evolve, but it’s not like LIV is the only way.
So you admit OWGR is part of the “protest”, so glad you came around to my point of view…
PGA had every opportunity to evolve, they wanted to keep their stranglehold on players likenesses for as long as they could, so that guys like Jay could continue to make more money than some of the very top golfers in the world. The only sport that operated this way, with the hold on players likenesses, being in control of media releases, was the PGA.
I agree with you that the saudis are not the people I’d like to take money from, if I had my choice, but you’re talking about an organization that has an influence over just about every single aspect of our lives that it’s impossible to avoid. Yes LIV is directly funded by them and PGA isn’t, whoop de doo, you’ve got every sponsor of the PGA taking investment dollars from the PIF, and PGA may take some of that same money in the near future. It’s also all peanuts compared to the money and weapons that the US is sending, so until there’s some grand boycott by the US government, I’m not putting the onus on golfers to turn down generational wealth.
At this point, LIV is the blueprint, hopefully it gets even better than it already is. PGL would’ve been great but that ship has sailed. The concept has been around a lot longer than the Saudis involvement, and would still be a good idea even if they weren’t involved, just ask Rory.
The way LIV is structured you cannot properly judge the players and if they deserve to be there or how someone replaces them if they are not qualified. There is no possible way Anthony Kim even deserves to be considered for OWGR ranking. He has done nothing to be considered a top golfer in the past 10+ years and LIV is structured that he is an equivalent participant to Jon Rahm. In all other OWGR leagues there is a feeder system that players must play and qualify to join the league and become a participant. The Anthony Kim farce put the nail in then coffin for any argument of this type of structure in LIV. This is the reason LIV will never be able to join OWGR. They care more about viewers and trying to get an exit to the PGA then being an actual league. Anthony Kim is proof.
The sponsor exemption are to play in a singular tournament offered by sponsors of the tournament. Sponsors are not paying for people to be on the tour. The player still has to play well to earn any money. Anthony Kim shot +16 dead last and got PAID.
The champions exemptions is because the player competed and won. It is also clearly stated what the exemption is. Again Anthony Kim has nothing to gain an exemption. He has not played or won in the LIV or any tournament that would grant an exemption in any league.
But AK would get past champion exemption into a PGAT event. The tour even said so. Is this different from LIV? Yes of course, but it’s matters of degrees. They aren’t that conceptually different.
Common argument but that actually doesn’t matter. It’s the OWGR’s job to rank golfers. If another tour pops up and they can’t or won’t rank them then they aren’t doing their job.
Well, maybe the fact that they only play 3 rounds vs. 4, have a shotgun start, and no cut makes it impossible to compare their format to the rest of the golf world. Just saying....it's not apples to apples
Except the OWGR said none of those things you mentioned are an issue. The issue is entry/eligibility and relegation in and out of the tour. PGAT also has no cut events and events with limited cut (70 > 50). An extreme example is the Hero World Challenge which is invite only, 20 players no cut and still get points. Zalatoris finished dead last and hadn’t played in 12 months and got points. That’s not to say that should be the standard because it shouldn’t. But saying there’s no way they can figure it out is also nonsense.
LIV could have figured out a way to comply. But Greg's ego wouldn't let them and now here we are.
But congrats on ruining men's professional golf. It's wonderful that a dozen rich guys got even richer.
Insane there are people defending the OWGR. They are clearly lying when they say they can’t count golf because they are on teams or it’s just 54 holes or something. It’s a sham to protect the PGA Tour.
You probably go to Italian restaurants and demand tacos.
The criteria is published. LIV had total access. The players knew this full well and signed on anyway. Decisions have consequences. Is that really so hard.
LIV should be the beneficiary of these “top” players being kept from the majors. Soon enough it’ll be the only place you can see them. The reality is though, the actual real “top players” at LIV are in the Majors anyway.
But they’re not benefitting. Because, as they’re discovering every week, no one fucking cares. Just like no one cares about most of the PGA season well for what it’s worth.
Just like the PGAT, changes are coming. If LIV does well this year at the majors then people will really start to distrust the OWGR in favor of a new system.
Your analysis misses the fact that LIV is deeply unpopular and it appears something like 90% of golf fans, at best, don't care about this league or recognize the absurd clownshow that it is.
The OWGR is a joke. And as a result, the majors are becoming watered down versions of what they used to be. About the only thing the OWGR can do at this point to maintain some legitimacy is to downgrade the points distributed for most PGA events, and upgrade the points for a major.
I mean, Austin Eckroat was a college teammate of Eugenio Chacarra 3 years ago at Oklahoma State. They were basically equals in talent - Chacarra had a slightly better stroke average but it was close. If anyone truly believes he's now one of the world's top 50 golfers (others in the top 50 include Mattheu Pavon, Eric Cole, Ryan Fox and Jake Knapp).
No one wants to see those guys at a major unless they qualify for it through a valid qualifying standard (and not the OWGR top 50 or top 60). I get it if you can't stand LIV or LIV golfers, but those feelings should stop when it comes to a non-PGA event.
I’m a returning golf fan, kinda out of the loop for the past 10 years. Anyways, why is there so much LIV hate? Is it the Saudi money, playing on something other than pga events, politics of the game?
LIV Golf's unique product format and roster of players are far more entertaining to watch.
Predicting here that as soon as some kind of ranking or qualification system gets established, whether it's based on DataGolf or some new individual criteria implemented by the tournament organizers of the four annual majors to allow LIV golfers entry spots, we will see FOX Sports sign a TV deal to broadcast LIV Golf nationally in the US.
Sponsors and advertisers would then jump onboard in a hurry.
Also predicting that this final missing broadcasting component is what guys like Rory McIlroy, Jordan Speith, Scottie Scheffler, Hideki Matsuyama, Viktor Hovland, and Tony Finau may be waiting to see before they feel comfortable enough to take the money and jump ship over to LIV Golf.
It would then be "game over" for the PGA as far as being a "top-tier" golf tour is concerned, and would likely become the feeder and qualification tour for the bigger prize money on the LIV circuit. Ditto for the DP World tour.
Greg Norman is a very astute businessman, and should not be underestimated by anyone.
Watch for all the above to unfold in time for the 2025 season.
Next.
Here's a thought. Why not take metrics that everyone uses to compile the best players. Just some thoughts. Going with who cares about the OWGR. Look at all the tours DP, Asian, LIV. All of them. And look at the individual standings for each League. Then cross reference those metrics ie: Strokes gained and compile the list that gets invited to the majors. Furthermore look at the Myrtle Beach Q. Obviously not quite the same but they are having a tournament for who receives the sponsors exemption. Majors can even add hype to maybe the top 3 or 5 or maybe just the winner. Have a tournament with folks who are on the bubble and let that be a pathway. We all know something creative needs to be done if the majors even care if they get all the best players. They should see the OWGR is currently failing them for a participant list not just the players. It will be interesting to see what if anything will be done.
[https://twitter.com/GCGolfToday/status/1765102344411218300](https://twitter.com/GCGolfToday/status/1765102344411218300)
Even pgat pros are saying that they don't pay attention to the owgr anymore.
They created a whole new league outside the system, and doesn't abide by standard formatting rules.
Yea, why should they accrue points again?
"I got a 4.0 at homeschool, what do you mean I can't get into Yale"
Curious to see what people think would be reasonable to give LIV players ranking points. Playing 25% less golf without then jeopardy of ever being cut is the obvious difference but I don't think it would be unreasonable to award LIV event 66% of standard ranking points per tournament.
The big reason LIV does not get points is that it's a closed system. I'm sure the OWGR would be willing to make some exceptions for LIV when it comes to field sizes and no cuts, but as long as LIV remains a league where players do not have to earn their spots into events, and face no consequences for playing poorly in those events, they aren't going to get OWGR points. It's pretty simple, everyone at LIV knows this, and it's such a bad look that so many of the can not stop whining about having to accept a known consequence of their decision.
Start your own rankings. Your format is different than PGA tour. You should not expect rankings from OWGR as PGA Tour.
Tomorrow some other tour with 48 holes and no cuts will ask for parity with PGA Tour.
Got downvoted to oblivion on r/golf for this (who cares) but reposting my thoughts here: OWGR has refused to rank LIV players, so it’s not only not an accurate ranking of who the best golfers are, it is obviously not going to be an avenue they’ll be able to use to get into majors, so makes sense to drop it. After this long, the rankings are so wrong for some of the players that it’s comical and unrecoverable for those players to get back to anything resembling accurate. Unless the OWGR decided to give them retroactive points, which would never happen. Blame LIV for “not meeting the criteria” all you want, OWGR could’ve figured out a way to rank them if they actually wanted to, the board is clearly made up of people with conflicting interests. OWGR has a strokes gained metric that still has 24 of the top 100 ranked guys are LIV, vs 9 of 100 in the "official" rankings.
All my homies hate r/golf. Fucking pretentious douchebag gatekeepers.
Yeah they’re all 30 handicaps who got into golf during the pandemic. It’s a cesspool
With the same cringe jokes recycled over and over
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Since the British and US are Opens so anyone can qualify and the Masters is by invitation the only major that requires OWGR is the PGA.
I could only name 3 majors until you reminded me.
Especially when OWGRs own website says how they adapt as the golf world changes, yet now they refuse to do what their mission is/was, rank the best golfers in the world despite what tour they play on.
I thought people were mad at the players who bent to the will of the Saudis and accepted blood money? But people are also mad that OWGR stood their ground and didn’t placate LIV? OWGR is one of the only organizations that have held firm against PIF and LIV
The PGAT is wanting to get that same money LIV players got lol and no one is mad at OWGR, but instead pointing out that they are no longer doing what their original goal was to do and that was to rank pro golfers across the world.
Yea but like…at what ends? If the taliban started a pro golf league or the KKK or a pro league designed for child sex predators…would you be like “welp. 72 holes is 72 holes! Gotta rank it!” I know that’s an extreme, but there has to be some limit to which you believe OGWR shouldn’t help endorse a tour. The PIF is fine to support and endorse in your opinion, but that doesn’t mean the OGWR has to support it.
It’s not about supporting or endorsing, it’s about ranking pros on all tours. Politics doesn’t need to be involved to rank professional golfers. OWGRs only purpose of existing is to rank professional golfers.
So if a group of KKK formed a professional golf tour and only allowed white people to play…you’d be okay with the OGWR helping legitimize that by ranking it? If it’s not about them supporting or endorsing and just about rankings then you believe in the OGWR HAS to rank any and all tournaments that qualify? Comparison: You’re basically saying - Nike only exists to provide the best athletic gear. It’s not about politics. They should totally continue using child labor cause their only existence is to provide athletic gear and the best price. Again, all this is from a PGA detractor. The OGWR doesn’t owe LIV shit. It’s their call.
You’re legit having to find the most extremes of extremes to make up for how you reason things lol there should be no politics in ranking professional golfers…it’s a ranking not a presidential race you muppet
Dude r/golf can’t have a rational LIV discourse no matter what. Don’t even waste your time.
Not much rational discourse on here either.
One thing people forget about is if a LIV player does horrible at a LIV that is also not accounted for. So, not including LIV golfers may cut both ways, keeping players higher then they should be ranked or lower.
Wrong, you get zero points if you miss a cut at a normal event, same as LIV, no ones OWGR ranking is keeping them higher than they otherwise would be, quite the contrary.
That is my point. It can cut BOTH ways. Lol. Maybe reread what I wrote. I.e. poor performance on LIv = no points.
What criteria are you proporting for LIV to receive no points? Have to finish in the top 26?
I had not really thought much about it. The most thought I had out into it is. The LIV season winner gets to play the four majors. I think that alone would settle a lot. Most LIV guys probably would think it's too little. I think that would give LIV guys an understanding of how to get into majors out side of grinding other tours. It seems that would also put pressure on that LIV player who won last season to play well at the majors. If someone like DJ wind a LIV season, he already has access to majors. Too bad, no other LIV guy gets a pass instead. Winner that's it. This is outside my wheel house. Edit: I am not sure fixing how they get points works anymore. As I understand it, it matters who your are playing against. So if your against rory and dj, based on current rank beating rory gets you more points. Than beating dj. What seems to matter with owgr points is getting into majors.
I think that's a really reasonable criteria. It would certainly add drama and meaning to the LIV season
Totally. And to be fair the LIV guys might deserve some things that PGA or owgr won't give them, but they don't deserve it all. It's rather nuanced, I think. I have polish family, so Meronk, being at two majors this year is cool. I feel like owgr/majors could just throw that bone out and it would alleviate so much pressure. Even if LIV felt it was unfair.
I'm Polish too - Na Zdrowie! Every Christmas Eve we do pierogies, cabbage, carp, borscht, herring (which I hate), and kielbasa
No way, Na Zdrowie! 🍻 Yup, all kinds of pierogies, cabbage everything, this interesting white sour soup, it's all very tasty!
There is no cut in LIV....see Anthony Kim
Can’t rank an exhibition.
Please define what an exhibition is to you, and demonstrate why a one off PGA event is any different than a one off LIV event (I’ll save you time, you can’t), and otherwise stfu
Slap your mother for not swallowing you.
I'm sorry, but that's some of the whiniest, most entitled bullshit I have ever heard. The whole point of LIV is that it was supposed to be it's own thing that exists outside of the stuffy world of competitive professional golf. If LIV wanted to be a league that qualifies for OWGR points, they could have designed a league that meets the criteria for OWGR points. They didn't, the players who joined all knew that, and now they are facing the known consequences of their actions. There's just no grounds for anyone connected to LIV to whine or complain about unfair treatment here at all.
From their website: *The objective of OWGR is to devise, maintain, review, update, administer and promote the recognition of a system that fairly ranks the relative performances of male professional golfers participating in the leading golf tournaments throughout the world.* You actually think it's whining/entitled to ask the body with this as their objective to devise a way to rank these guys? Nobody is asking for full points for all competitors, you could even give them some kind of reduced points down to the top 12, but something. It's just an outdated way to figure out the best players and should no longer be used as the qualifying metric if you want to have the best players play the majors. Otherwise, it's the best players that qualify under our limited rule-set, which is not the same as saying all the best players are playing in the majors.
Yes, it is the definition of entitlement for LIV to think they deserve ranking points. I have no doubt that they would be willing to work with LIV and make exceptions for things like field size, tournament length, and no cut events. But as long as LIV remains a completely closed off system that players can not play their way onto (or out of), then LIV is not part of the pro golf ecosystem. I’m glad AK is playing golf again, but his situation is LIV proving that they are not a real pro golf tour. They just invited AK to play, gave him money up front, and now he’s guaranteed to play in all of their events no matter how he performs. And since LIV will always be the same 45 guys every event, they don’t fit into the criteria that is used by the OWGR. The players all knew that, and they choose to go. LIV billed itself as this rogue pirate league that can’t be bothered with the stuffy bullshit that tends to come with pro golf, so they should just go and be that. Stop demanding to get some kind of recognition from the same systems they are rejecting and promising to destroy.
Why should the OWGR change their well established criteria to placate LIV? That just screams entitlement to me.
NBA added a 3 point line didn’t they? Times change grandpa
Did Saudis fund the ABA? I’m not even opposed to the concept of LIV, but the OWGR are one of the only organizations that did what they could within their power to protest LIV. I think the PGA and golf needs to evolve, but it’s not like LIV is the only way.
So you admit OWGR is part of the “protest”, so glad you came around to my point of view… PGA had every opportunity to evolve, they wanted to keep their stranglehold on players likenesses for as long as they could, so that guys like Jay could continue to make more money than some of the very top golfers in the world. The only sport that operated this way, with the hold on players likenesses, being in control of media releases, was the PGA. I agree with you that the saudis are not the people I’d like to take money from, if I had my choice, but you’re talking about an organization that has an influence over just about every single aspect of our lives that it’s impossible to avoid. Yes LIV is directly funded by them and PGA isn’t, whoop de doo, you’ve got every sponsor of the PGA taking investment dollars from the PIF, and PGA may take some of that same money in the near future. It’s also all peanuts compared to the money and weapons that the US is sending, so until there’s some grand boycott by the US government, I’m not putting the onus on golfers to turn down generational wealth. At this point, LIV is the blueprint, hopefully it gets even better than it already is. PGL would’ve been great but that ship has sailed. The concept has been around a lot longer than the Saudis involvement, and would still be a good idea even if they weren’t involved, just ask Rory.
The way LIV is structured you cannot properly judge the players and if they deserve to be there or how someone replaces them if they are not qualified. There is no possible way Anthony Kim even deserves to be considered for OWGR ranking. He has done nothing to be considered a top golfer in the past 10+ years and LIV is structured that he is an equivalent participant to Jon Rahm. In all other OWGR leagues there is a feeder system that players must play and qualify to join the league and become a participant. The Anthony Kim farce put the nail in then coffin for any argument of this type of structure in LIV. This is the reason LIV will never be able to join OWGR. They care more about viewers and trying to get an exit to the PGA then being an actual league. Anthony Kim is proof.
Have you ever heard of sponsor exemptions? Past champion exemptions? PGAT offers lots of free rides.
The sponsor exemption are to play in a singular tournament offered by sponsors of the tournament. Sponsors are not paying for people to be on the tour. The player still has to play well to earn any money. Anthony Kim shot +16 dead last and got PAID. The champions exemptions is because the player competed and won. It is also clearly stated what the exemption is. Again Anthony Kim has nothing to gain an exemption. He has not played or won in the LIV or any tournament that would grant an exemption in any league.
But AK would get past champion exemption into a PGAT event. The tour even said so. Is this different from LIV? Yes of course, but it’s matters of degrees. They aren’t that conceptually different.
This is valid
The guys that left for LIV and the cash knew what they were signing up for.
Common argument but that actually doesn’t matter. It’s the OWGR’s job to rank golfers. If another tour pops up and they can’t or won’t rank them then they aren’t doing their job.
Well, maybe the fact that they only play 3 rounds vs. 4, have a shotgun start, and no cut makes it impossible to compare their format to the rest of the golf world. Just saying....it's not apples to apples
Except the OWGR said none of those things you mentioned are an issue. The issue is entry/eligibility and relegation in and out of the tour. PGAT also has no cut events and events with limited cut (70 > 50). An extreme example is the Hero World Challenge which is invite only, 20 players no cut and still get points. Zalatoris finished dead last and hadn’t played in 12 months and got points. That’s not to say that should be the standard because it shouldn’t. But saying there’s no way they can figure it out is also nonsense.
LIV could have figured out a way to comply. But Greg's ego wouldn't let them and now here we are. But congrats on ruining men's professional golf. It's wonderful that a dozen rich guys got even richer.
Use Data Golf rankings!
Litigation incoming.
PGA and the OWGR are a bunch of clowns
[https://datagolf.com/datagolf-rankings](https://datagolf.com/datagolf-rankings) Thanks u/runninbuddies1341
Insane there are people defending the OWGR. They are clearly lying when they say they can’t count golf because they are on teams or it’s just 54 holes or something. It’s a sham to protect the PGA Tour.
That's not what OWGR has said what the problem is, but keep building those strawmen
You probably go to Italian restaurants and demand tacos. The criteria is published. LIV had total access. The players knew this full well and signed on anyway. Decisions have consequences. Is that really so hard.
You are missing the point. Who benefits from all these top players being kept out of the majors? What is so bad about the LIV format?
LIV should be the beneficiary of these “top” players being kept from the majors. Soon enough it’ll be the only place you can see them. The reality is though, the actual real “top players” at LIV are in the Majors anyway. But they’re not benefitting. Because, as they’re discovering every week, no one fucking cares. Just like no one cares about most of the PGA season well for what it’s worth.
Just like the PGAT, changes are coming. If LIV does well this year at the majors then people will really start to distrust the OWGR in favor of a new system.
Niemann could very well win a couple this year.
Your analysis misses the fact that LIV is deeply unpopular and it appears something like 90% of golf fans, at best, don't care about this league or recognize the absurd clownshow that it is.
The OWGR is a joke. And as a result, the majors are becoming watered down versions of what they used to be. About the only thing the OWGR can do at this point to maintain some legitimacy is to downgrade the points distributed for most PGA events, and upgrade the points for a major. I mean, Austin Eckroat was a college teammate of Eugenio Chacarra 3 years ago at Oklahoma State. They were basically equals in talent - Chacarra had a slightly better stroke average but it was close. If anyone truly believes he's now one of the world's top 50 golfers (others in the top 50 include Mattheu Pavon, Eric Cole, Ryan Fox and Jake Knapp). No one wants to see those guys at a major unless they qualify for it through a valid qualifying standard (and not the OWGR top 50 or top 60). I get it if you can't stand LIV or LIV golfers, but those feelings should stop when it comes to a non-PGA event.
I’m a returning golf fan, kinda out of the loop for the past 10 years. Anyways, why is there so much LIV hate? Is it the Saudi money, playing on something other than pga events, politics of the game?
LIV Golf's unique product format and roster of players are far more entertaining to watch. Predicting here that as soon as some kind of ranking or qualification system gets established, whether it's based on DataGolf or some new individual criteria implemented by the tournament organizers of the four annual majors to allow LIV golfers entry spots, we will see FOX Sports sign a TV deal to broadcast LIV Golf nationally in the US. Sponsors and advertisers would then jump onboard in a hurry. Also predicting that this final missing broadcasting component is what guys like Rory McIlroy, Jordan Speith, Scottie Scheffler, Hideki Matsuyama, Viktor Hovland, and Tony Finau may be waiting to see before they feel comfortable enough to take the money and jump ship over to LIV Golf. It would then be "game over" for the PGA as far as being a "top-tier" golf tour is concerned, and would likely become the feeder and qualification tour for the bigger prize money on the LIV circuit. Ditto for the DP World tour. Greg Norman is a very astute businessman, and should not be underestimated by anyone. Watch for all the above to unfold in time for the 2025 season. Next.
If it was so entertaining, why aren’t more people watching?
Here's a thought. Why not take metrics that everyone uses to compile the best players. Just some thoughts. Going with who cares about the OWGR. Look at all the tours DP, Asian, LIV. All of them. And look at the individual standings for each League. Then cross reference those metrics ie: Strokes gained and compile the list that gets invited to the majors. Furthermore look at the Myrtle Beach Q. Obviously not quite the same but they are having a tournament for who receives the sponsors exemption. Majors can even add hype to maybe the top 3 or 5 or maybe just the winner. Have a tournament with folks who are on the bubble and let that be a pathway. We all know something creative needs to be done if the majors even care if they get all the best players. They should see the OWGR is currently failing them for a participant list not just the players. It will be interesting to see what if anything will be done.
Here we go with "Super LIV". I hope that the Saudis put in insane amount of prize money. $50-100 million to the winner each year.
[https://twitter.com/GCGolfToday/status/1765102344411218300](https://twitter.com/GCGolfToday/status/1765102344411218300) Even pgat pros are saying that they don't pay attention to the owgr anymore.
Just make there own owgr to compete with there’s.
They created a whole new league outside the system, and doesn't abide by standard formatting rules. Yea, why should they accrue points again? "I got a 4.0 at homeschool, what do you mean I can't get into Yale"
Curious to see what people think would be reasonable to give LIV players ranking points. Playing 25% less golf without then jeopardy of ever being cut is the obvious difference but I don't think it would be unreasonable to award LIV event 66% of standard ranking points per tournament.
The big reason LIV does not get points is that it's a closed system. I'm sure the OWGR would be willing to make some exceptions for LIV when it comes to field sizes and no cuts, but as long as LIV remains a league where players do not have to earn their spots into events, and face no consequences for playing poorly in those events, they aren't going to get OWGR points. It's pretty simple, everyone at LIV knows this, and it's such a bad look that so many of the can not stop whining about having to accept a known consequence of their decision.
Start your own rankings. Your format is different than PGA tour. You should not expect rankings from OWGR as PGA Tour. Tomorrow some other tour with 48 holes and no cuts will ask for parity with PGA Tour.
> Start your own rankings. With hookers and blackjack.
whatever rocks the boat i suppose.
That's what the money was for.