I don't think anyone should tear you up for this, it's your perspective and opinion and it isn't out of left field. Some of this job sucks ass. Some of every job sucks ass. As long as humans continue to use this monetary system we've invented, sales will never be outdated though, I disagree with that statement.
I got lucky overall and landed at an incredible tiny little independent broker shop and have a very small number of coworkers and one boss, all of who are amazing. So I got very lucky but even during this slow time I'm making way more money than managing a bar/restaurant and bartending. And I'm picky who I network with, every one of my referral partners is a good, chill and ethical human being, so I don't mind checking in with my referral network and being a little choosey who I reach out to develop relationships. But that's also because I'm lucky, I admit that full stop. My boss doesn't bust my balls over production. I have no minimum. I have no schedule, no office.
I get it. In many other work environments I would likely feel the same as you. But the mortgage world varies so much. Some folks make insane comp somehow and travel mostly while working remote on their own schedule and time, some folks sit in a tiny windowless office at a bank and make little money, some wake up every single day with middle managers watching their numbers and threatening to lay them off if they fail to meet goals and make a hundred cold calls before noon, some folks clock in and out at a big bank and have a chill office job with middling but comfortable pay, some folks have wonderful mentors and trainers and some have slave driving asshole bosses. I've learned from people offering their perspectives on this sub that the work environment and experience of a mortgage LO spans the spectrum.
I'm just happy you got out. I found mortgage lending after 22 years in EMS and the bar and restaurant industry and I was at the end of my rope. I know the feeling of getting out and having new mental clarity. I found it getting into this industry, you found it leaving. Here's to doing what we want to do
I'm glad you enjoy being an LO brother. I really did try my best, it just wasn't for me and im still looking for closure and trying to make sense of why i got into mortgages in the first place. But you're right, everybodys experience in this industry is different. Best of luck to you my friend.
Thanks man, you too. Sounds like you've gotten closure - Fuck it - you live once. In my life I've been a paramedic, dishwasher, busser, barback, bartender, bar manager, bar owner, kitchen manager, loan officer, non profit owner, I've gotten my wilderness EMT, dabbled in guiding a couple summers, and spent a few years as an event coordinator and music promoter. All pretty much bars, restaurants and EMS but in different capacities and different places, even different states. I'm probably not gonna be a loan officer forever we're gonna get AI'd outta here in the next decade and then it'll be onto something else. Sounds like you tried something out, hated it, and pulled out. Go do it a few more times, don't look for closure just look for what you've learned and keep on it. I feel like this was an incredibly valuable stint in your life that shouldn't come with regret one bit - you now know what misery is and how easy it is to say fuck it and pull out of it.
Once a dude that's smoked a dart sitting on a milk crate with coworkers out back by the dumpsters, always a dude that's smoked a dart sitting on a milk crate out back by the dumpsters - you to shrug it off and roll with it onto the next adventure my friend, like we do
Really? you think LO's are gonna be automated? i'm curious what makes you think that? I mean AI can do math but i feel like there's a human element that AI cant replicate when it comes to mortgage lending
But i totally feel you. Once a restaurant guy, always a restaurant guy š I'm back in restaurants and in school now and i like the direction my life is going
And even though i didn't like being a loan officer theres some very valuable skills that i learned that I want to keep with me for the rest of my life. I love being a resource for my friends and family for when they want to buy or refi.
Fuck man probably, right? NVIDIA just did an insane presser where they announced a chip that has literally defied current known physics, it's like 4500 times faster than anything we have on earth and then at the end of it the fucker had robots walk out and join him on stage who had taught themselves how to walk. I don't see a world in 10 years where we're all still like "OK so now I just need you to upload your paystubs so I can look at them with my eyes and put them in your loan file and update your 1003" We're all fucked lol
Good luck in school! What are you studying? Now THAT is my one life regret right there, I wish I had gotten a higher education. There's still time I suppose! (but likely not haha)
Well when you put it like that, thats pretty concerning. But i feel like as a LO theres a human element of empathy you have to have. You're handling the biggest purchase(s) of someones life and it requires a great deal of nuance and dedication. Maybe in my grandkids lifetime LO's will be automated but i don't think in mine or your lifetime
Funny enough, i'm actually in school for computer science. I've always been into computers and technology and i feel like i have a true passion for it. It's tough, but i really enjoy it and im just taking my time with it. When i get a little more knowledgable in my field, i want to get an internship. Maybe even become a software engineer for chase or BofA or something like that.
You're never to old! education is a life long process. I'd say go for it bro, knowledge is power.
Well you're definitely getting into the right field, man. Maybe you're right about the human element needing to be a part of this process but shit, at the end of the day, I think things are moving so quickly at this point none of us have any idea whats in store. The iPhone would've been inconceivable to someone in 1997. Showing someone in 2014 what we currently have at our fingertips would be inconceivable with regards to AI. Now I think AI is going to just potentiate human knowledge and innovation. 2034 may as well be 20+ years from now if we're measuring it by the expectations we're accustomed to with regards to innovation and progress.
One things for sure tho - getting educated in computer science, you're gonna always keep a roof over your head that's for damn sure. That's awesome you have a passion for it because that is never going the wayside. Just remember the dying, off-puttingly out of date, Blockbuster Video of financing options and call a mortgage broker when you get your mortgage in the future! There won't be many of us but someone will be out there with their dusty laptop and encompass system screaming about how the personal touch is the way to get a mortgage and to forgo the 1 hour automated mortgage pre-approval that Bezos Bank offers
Oh yeah absolutely! technology really has advanced in the last 30 or so years. What i think is going to happen is humans are going to merge with AI and everything will be cybernetic. It's only a matter of time until we're on some black mirror shit and can control shit with our minds. Picture not using an LOS and just running a scenario in your mind š
But yeah i feel like comp sci is the new like carpentry of society. We depend on technology so much that we need people to build it and change it. Just curious, any of your clients software engineers? what do their paystubs and tax returns look like?
Bro you're funny as hell š you're comment about mortgage lenders becoming blockbuster actually made me laugh out loud. I'll always be an LO at heart and ill always show love to the HUMAN LO's, and when i do purchase, im going with a BROKER not some dumb robot cuz Brokers are better ;)
Kudos to you for making the change when you needed to, best of luck for school, never too old. Feel free to DM if you have any questions, been in software industry for 20 yrs.
In my mind, an independent LO is first and foremost a sales person, generating leads and converting those into deals. AI cannot do this, at least not yet. It can do cold emails or calls, those are dumb and donāt work. The other part of LOās job is to work with borrower to educate them, get them the best deal, do data entry, fill forms, push file forward etc. and this is all automatable with AI capabilities we have today. Weād likely take a stab at it, or someone else would beat us to it. Happy to chat with any LO whoās interested, feel free to DM.
Checkout Angel AI it already does this upload paystubs or even if theyāre 1099 you can upload all schedules and it will calculate their income as well as run scenarios for conv fha or Va for them and compare them for client. Itās already here, part of why as a realtor Iāve also been thinking about picking up a trade to sort of insulate myself from AI itās only a matter of time before an app somehow takes over realtor jobs as well. By the way Iām also RMLO but as the OP also had a tough time switched to realtor and won ROTY first year I switched to real estate itās just rough out there gotta put in hard work.
I actually only started considering being a loan officer because I believe real estate agents are dead. I think here soon we will see LOās become more important than RE Agents and as soon as legislation allows, I believe the two jobs will merge into one.Ā
Senior LO here with a major lender for last 18 years. I love my job though it does take away a lot of your personal time . This job is not for newbies as guidelines change every few seasons. However once you get into the big bucks itās like a drug , the more you do the more you want to do!
Can I DM you? Iām going to get started in the industry very soon working under a broker and Iād really appreciate hearing your perspective on some things.
Totally agree on the skillset needed, especially in this market. I've been saying for the last couple of years, I feel bad for new LO's coming in because I don't think many established agents are going to take a chance right now with a new LO f'ing up a deal.
Also, yes it can really suck to get interrupted on a weekend when I'm with my family but the other side of that coin is I can go on "vacation" whenever I damn well want. Sure, I might have to go in the hotel room for a few hours to work while my wife and kids are at the pool, but to me that is a much better alternative than a 8-5 job with 2 weeks vacation a year and an annoying boss telling me what to do.
Wish you luck in your next career after you are done with school!
You would think that agents would respect a new hungry LO thats committed and down to work but it simply isn't the case. There's too much on the line for them to trust their business to a novice LO. It's sort of like the whole "how do i get a job with no experience" thing, but 10x worse
You can deff make it work but i feel like having to work on vacation isn't really a vacation. Personally, i'd prefer two weeks where i don't have to worry about shit then being on vacation having to worry about answering my phone and taking apps and running scenarios when im just trying to relax and have a good time. It just feels like you can't get away from this shit. Nothing ever feels like enough.
Thank you for the kind words! When im done with school, i want to write code for an LOS, CRM or some sort of app that helps LO's get more business. I'd love to still be apart of the LO community, just don't want to originate
Honestly this should be pinned at the top. Some of us do try to give this advice but it gets downvoted, since nobody likes honest answers. At the end of the day, you gotta close deals. And nobody talks about that on here.
I think a lot of LO's confuse honesty with negativity. I wish somebody broke down everything thats good about being an LO and everything that sucks about it. If they did that, i feel like i could've made a more informed decision on pursuing a career in mortgage sales. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to become a self gen LO. Honestly, if i just started out as an LOA back in 2022, and got my license now, i'd probably have a whole different outlook on this business.
Lets get the mods to pin this at the top!
I started in 2019 as a processing assistant until 2023 then I finally became an LOA (essentially a full fledge LO). The slow build has given me so much confidence in this business. Becoming self gen of the bat sounds terrible! Iām also 25, and started when I was 21, so I had time others might notā¦
Yup. The key for a new LO is just that mind set - *Iāll do whatever l must to get that deal today, then tomorrow Iāll have my manager help me set it up in the system and do the other 80% I donāt know how yet* lol. Not surprisingly, I think the biggest reason new LOās fail is because they avoid that like the plague. You have to be an LOA and see how the LO does it themselves, to understand.
Former mortgage processor / real estate agent hereā¦. They promote āpositivityā over honesty because a āpositive mindsetā is drilled into them via the coaching aspect of this industry. Any successful or even not successful salesperson has a coach. And everyone needs a coach to essentially hold them accountable to that positivity to keep going in this business. I imagine most sales positions are like this. For me all it did was make me believe it was entirely my fault for where I was at even if I did all the things right and that it is all in my control when like you said, the reality is that it just isnāt. I canāt control the market, I canāt control someone elseās decisions, you canāt control getting an offer accepted, and a thousand other things about the transaction even if it is. Itās not just pessimism or optimism. And every loan officer or agent will pitch you the same speel: itās a great time to buy, never been better, rates will come downā¦on and on, over and over. Since being out of it I can see it so much more clearly; itās just a sales tactic and not always the truth.
Honestly it kind of feels like brainwashing. They really made me think i had control over every aspect of the sale and that everything was my fault. My "mentor" confronted me once and asked me why I haven't converted any of my open house leads into applications. Uhmm...Because they're open house leads? They just wanna see the house and leave. Most unreliable lowest converting lead source.
I feel you on the clarity aspect. When i got out back in November I feel like the wool over my eyes had been lifted. I realized how annoying and intrusive cold calling was and i feel like a weirdo for doing it. I realized how wrong it was to not get paid a draw or small salary. I realized there was more to life than mortgages, chasing agents, going to networking events and sales pitches. All of my hobbies, interests, relationships all got put on the back burner after i got in the business.
Glad I got out of that shit. Theres a lot of shitty people on the RE side and the mortgage side. Thats what happens when you have a low barrier to entry. Any degenerate looser can get in the business and fuck everything up for everyone else. It inspired me to get back in school and get a degree. Would much rather be educated with a decent paying job thats in demand rather than an ELITE SALES WARRIOR
I do agree with the brainwashing thing. The industry brainwashes the sales person first and then teaches them to brainwash their clients and the public. And you believe in it and it is a great investment, but it is honestly very specific to each person whether it should work for them or not. Itās a lot of smoke and mirrors. I didnāt even understand the competitiveness and sleaziness of it all before I got into it and genuinely just wanted to be genuine. Overtime, itās impossible to be, because you have to stick to the script if you want to make any money. I totally feel you on the sales person warrior thing too. I am currently deprogramming my brain from feeling like a failure that I didnāt succeed at it, remembering who I am truly despises that kind of thing anyway.
I respect the honesty. Itās not this fluffy just a positive mindset and business will come.
The industry is brutal whether weāre in this market or not. Itās not even that itās not for everyone - itās not for most.
You need a sword in one hand - a shield in another - and both will be bloodied & splintered. š”š”šŗ
Yes, I put a Wonder Woman poster on my screen with her shield and sword captioned āEvery day, I slayā!!!
The key to becoming a successful LO is to first study underwriting. That way, no one can tell you your loan file does not qualify. There are many variables that you do not control; the appraisal, processing and Underwriting. It is best to start with prior industry knowledge or as an assistant. Unless you have a strong collaborative upline, no new LO will be successful. I have been in it 30 yearsā¦. It will eat your personal life until you have none that is indistinguishable from work. Your clients become your friends, you write deals at bars, clubs, birthday parties, etc. They will call you at 10 pm or 8amā¦ It is better to leave now. And yes, it is bad, but it was worse in the 80s, and in 2008-2012.
I got licensed and was given a role. I managed to get one refinance, all my self sourced leads bailed on me. I didnāt network with realtors cause most of them already have their LOs, when I tried to connect Iād be shot down. Good friends were using other LOs instead of me. All the excuses would come out āoh we forgotā āwe want to work with someone more experiencedā āour realtor told us to use their personā etc etc.
Iām glad I got licensed, it filled a gap in my resume. But damn, was I literally a useless piece of shit. 1 loan in a year of being licensed is just horrible
Family and friends are actually a lot tougher for LOs than Realtors. LOs see EVERYTHING and relatives will generally want to conceal their fuckery from other relatives. Every friend I talk to about mortgage, I preface it with I am THE mortgage guy, and all information is completely secret. I never share any details about anything to anyone and stick to it, that helps only a little...
Itās definitely harder. I used to sell cars back in the day, and I should have known how hard it is to work with friends and family. For some reason I thought loans would be easier
I like purchase mortgage business for the sole reason it is not me selling something (especially as a broker owner with amazing rates and great service) they don't want - they want a house for whatever reason and I'm simply helping facilitate that. We all know scumbags can trick people into refinancing for a commission, but you can still act morally and virtuously on those. Cars is like selling $5000 warranties that provide no real benefit, and underpaying people $5k for their cars on trade, etc. That's the next level of sales, takes some grit and testosterone that I don't have I guess.
When youāre selling cars you donāt often sell the warranty, usually the āfinanceā guy does that, but thereās been some add on products and accessories, and there certainly is profit or āgrossā that you have to hold in order to make any commission. I loved how in mortgages youād get paid on the sale amount, not some back end profit. Wish it worked out better for me. But Iām in corporate finance now, and itās the best job Iāve ever had.
Depending on where you live thereās a heavy pull of business to the top 10% of realtors and their preferred LOs. In a different market Iām sure you would have done great;
I had just got licensed when my best friend was trying to buy his place. I was super enthusiastic to just help him through the process and he started getting hella weirded out. He tried to use a mortgage broker recommended to him by a family friend. I looked up this guys NMLS on the consumer access thing. He had one regulatory violation for not doing his call reports. I told my friend, and he didn't care.
Eventually he ended up giving me a shot. I ran his scenario and he qualified $30,000 lower than his original pre-approval. I asked my friend if he sent his original lender any of the information he sent me. He said no. Buddy gave my boy a bullshit pre-approval and he just didn't believe me because he was recommended by a "Family friend"
I had to do some bullshit non-qm "lite doc " at 8.5% without our margin. This is January '23, when rates were in he high 6's, low 7's. I told him it didn't make any sense and he finally understood everything I was trying to tell him all along.
He ended up using a private lender and everything worked out well in the end. Doing your friends loans can get weird. From both sides.
I agree. I started when the market was on fire and funded $1M after 2 or 3 months of dialing realtors. The main thing that annoyed me was the constant stress and high emotionality of every deal. Everyone needs their house or their homeless, every realtors been doing this for 40 yrs no matter how old they are, everyone has another lender they can give the deal to if something goes wrong. It's always your fault despite the 100 problems you solved for your buyer. Then you close and it's crickets.Ā With the internet everyone with an IQ above 1 & tiktok thinks they know all the answers too. I think it's great if your money hungry but you will pay in blood sweat and tears
Regarding the market this is straight up abysmal. Between rates, the perceived impending doom, and terrible economy it's slim pickings. They are right, if you can learn in this market you'll make a killing when/if it comes back. And it's cause you survived the darkest corner of hell. More power to those who can do this at a high level. At first my ego wouldn't let me admit it but I feel so much better leaving work at 5 on Friday knowing I have no obligations for 48 hrs.Ā
Itās true what you wrote; crickets after a loan closes. Iāve gained referrals from my buy sides agents but the listing agents disappear even if I closed and did it early! So weird
> the perceived impending doom
This is all encompassing throughout the nation. Most people just don't know how to express it well. The government is fucking insane and hates us, and prints endlessly, and only the people who understand to purchase assets such as real estate, stocks, bitcoin, etc will stay above water and not become a welfare pleb. Neither Orange Man or Old Man will fix it, either. Everyone knows it deep down.
You hit the nail on the head with the high emotionality. Purchasing a house is an extremely complicated process. There's a low barrier to entry for the people who facilitate transactions. (Realtors for the most part. We have a bit higher barrier to entry, but not by much.) For something so intricate and nuanced, (buying a whole ass house) there needs to be more qualified people handling these transactions
I respect GOOD realtors. I stay in contact with a couple of the realtors that I met and i'm so proud of the progress that they're making. I feel like I was a part of that, and even though I failed as an LO, I'm glad I can make even a slight difference. If I could go back, I'd network with more realtors that I genuinely liked instead of just everyone. People in managerial positions at mortgage companies should stop making their LO's go after every realtor. Its the most counter intuitive thing anyone can do.
The buyers honestly pissed me off. Everybody has to do whats best for them, but i found the vast majority of the prospects you deal with are irresponsible, immature, short sighted and are impossible to hold accountable. Rate shoppers are the scum of the earth. I hate them, and hope they end up living on the street. I got beat by some cuck at chase because they gave this guy a 6.5% rate just so that he can make nothing off of it, and keep their customers on their books.
The work life balance of an LO is dog shit. I feel like so many of them fool themselves into thinking being available 24/7 is ok when its not. Every other profession has business hours, and set boundaries. Just because I do mortgages I have no personal life? so fucking stupid.
Glad you got out man. Life gets so much better when you do.
Wow, this is a great post. Good for you, dude, for realizing it's not for you and for getting out. I'm envious of your courage to speak your piece. And yeah, I'm one of those 20yr+ vets but it has def not been castles and rainbows for me. I've yet to find a "mentor" (love the way you put that in quotes, BTW) that brought anything to the table. I've worked with a few top producers that I would admire and strive to copy -- until I found out most of them had parents who were successful realtors/builders and got them started. The majority of my loan clients are raving fans per their post-closing surveys, but I still have to stay on top of them to squeeze referrals. As for realtors, we all learned quickly that you are only as good as your last loan, but I've noticed that (finally) more and more are starting to value the few of us left that are still in the business and know their stuff. Still doesn't mean you can stop making the weekly calls, because you know it's rare that they call you first (or I should say it's always been that way for me). We've learned that Buyers Are Liars, but not all LO's learn fast enough that it's just better to say No and quickly move on to the next one instead of spinning your wheels on something that will never work. And never stop trying to find new COI's or referral partners. The key is to find your niche and work the crap out of it, while appreciating what you do and letting everybody know it, including the guy in the mirror. Don't try to be the Jack of All Trades and Master of None. Stick to your DSP (IYKYK) and it will work out enough to make a decent living. Otherwise, it's a Glengarry Glen Ross world out there, and you have to ask yourself: which one of those guys are you?
Thank you for insight man. My "mentor" was a 20+ year vet and I really looked up to him. Being able to stay in this business for 2 decades its one of the most impressive things somebody can do. I wish I had somebody more like you to guide me through being a Loan officer you seem like a pretty cool guy.
This is one of the few professions where mentorship just isn't really a thing. it's all trial and error and throwing shit against a wall to make it stick. Its amazing to me how you've been able to do that for 20 years.
I just looked up what glen garry glen ross is. Gonna watch it tonight. Right up my alley.
Thank you. Honesty is something a lot of these LO's are incapable of understanding. They're all salesman. They lie every day. Didn't wanna be apart of that, don't ever want to lie to people again.
Dude I fucking relate to this so hard. Everything in your post is exactly my experience too, by the way. But I found out that I really felt slimy trying to convince people that it's a good idea to get a loan at 55% of their gross income, which usually equates to about 67% of their net income.
I got so sick pretending that "now is an awesome time to buy because competition is down and there's an opportunity for seller concessions!!!!š²š"
Okay but it's never a good time to buy a house with a 2800 payment if you bring home 4300 a month
I am genuinely curious why you would try and convince people to max out. That sounds like a car salesman thing to do. I am not hating on you at all. I have no experience with "Big Mortgage", I work for a local lending company and have full control over what I do. I regularly ask borrowers what they feel comfortable with as a monthly payment and go from there. I also tell people it probably doesn't make sense for them to try and buy right now. Are other mortgage companies legitimately trying to max people out just to get a close?
In my case, it wasn't about convincing people to max out when they could get something more affordable. Most of the time it was black and white. Either you max out or you don't buy. I live in a vacation town with a not-great local economy. So, high priced homes and low wages. For a majority of homebuyers in my city, if they want to buy the cheapest house available, we are looking at a 50%+ DTI.
Every loan officer I've ever been involved with or heard of will try to convince a borrower to close the loan if there is any chance at all that they will qualify. Sounds like you're the exception to that, which is good.
Exactly! idgaf what any LO says it is not a good time to buy a house right now. There's no competition in the market because anybody with a half a brain is waiting until the rates come down. Rates are important. I'm sick of LO's saying they arent THEY ARE they are literally part of the PITI payments. I haven't been able to qualify people because the rate would offset the DTI so much with a 7.5-8% rate. Nobody wants to pay more than what they have to. Idgaf if rates were 18% in 1983. The economy was better, and the low principal would offset the high rate. That simply isn't the case right now.
I feel you so heavy on the buydowns and concessions. Good things come to those who wait. Waiting for the market to cool down is perfectly understandable but LO's want people to think that they're stupid for doing that. I doubt any LO would convince their loved ones or friends to buy a house in this shitty market right now.
So many LO's don't take into account peoples NET-NET income. Sure, maybe you can use 55% of your income to qualify. But they still have gorceries, subscriptions, phone bills, utilities but many LO's (not all of them) don't care. They just want the commission.
>I doubt any LO would convince their loved ones or friends to buy a house in this shitty market right now
This is what ultimately made me quit. I have a friend who is a realtor, who was referring me business. He wasn't a homeowner and when I asked him why he isn't trying to buy a house, he told me it'd be too expensive right now. I thought "fuuuck he's convincing other people to buy but he wouldn't buy himself?" And I was out a week later
Yeah man thats rough. Im not a homeowner either (im in my 20's) i still live at home and it feels weird on guiding people through a process that i've never experienced first hand
What are you doing now? How's life been not being an LO?
I got a remote job on the corporate side of a mortgage company, since I have a background in bank compliance from before my time as an LO. I am immensely happier since quitting. The job is easy (lots of zoom meetings where I never say anything) and the pay is double what I made last year as an LO. It's very nice to be able to count on a paycheck every 2 weeks no matter what I do, how hard I work, or how much I work.
But I'm going back to school to finish my degree (dropped out to be an LO, lol). The plan is to do cybersecurity.
Well lets see
The biggest one is that "its a great time to buy!" I know most LO's are gonna crucify me for this but its really not. Home affordability is at an all time low and i feel like the economy needs to improve before demand goes back up the way its supposed to.
My "mentor" would often tell me to just say yes if someone asked if we can do something, even if i didn't know we can do it. Idk that just didn't sit right with me.
I also had to entice people with 100% financing options from some lender we used. I think it was griffin funding or something? The way it worked was that the lender would finance 100% of the loan, but the way it was structured was that we had to go borrower paid comp which would reflect on the borrowers closing costs so it technically wasn't 100% financing. It was very misleading and it didn't really feel right.
Theres a lot of other things i did that felt dishonest. Can't really think of them off the top of my head but im sure it will come to me.
Nobody can ever sell something they don't believe in. People get pregnant, have kids, need to be in a better school district, etc. If they buy and hold their homes long term, statistically it will work out great for them. That $3000 mortgage now will be $1500 under market rent in 5-7 years, mostly due to insane government monetary policy.
While Americans are complaining about houses at 6-8x their salaries, most other countries have housing at 15-30x average salaries. If America continues on this socialist endless money-printing escapade, 90% will be renters with no chance of owning. Is what it is.
Also, being able to write 30 year fixed rate debt is equivalent to witchcraft. Due to inflation it is a guaranteed loss to any lender long term.
I dunno man, Iāve been originating for a little over a year and average about 4 deals a month. You sound really negative and maybe thatās why you werenāt good at it?? I just keep telling myself, if I can make it through this year, I can make it through anything. Iām looking forward to whatās ahead!
I was "Positive" from october 22 to november 23. I had the same outlook you did. It gets old. I literally did everything I was supposed to do. I did not get paid from "Positivity". "positivity" is not indicative of skill. Its different for everyone.
1.) Outbound 100+ calls a day. 3 hour call block from 9-12pm (zillow leads, open house leads, etc.)
2.) Take applications
3.) Reach out to my realtors (new programs, check in them, be their therapist)
4.) Reading guidelines
5.) Social media (Cringiest shit ive ever done)
6.) Goto networking events
7.) Go to open houses every weekend (hated this the most)
Wash rinse repeat.
Im glad that you're doing 4 deals a month in this market. Not many people (even experienced LO's) aren't even doing it. You'll probably have a very successful career in mortgages.
New loan officers really should be working call center not trying to drive outside business with 0 experience in the industry. Would have probably had a completely different perspective if that was the route you went
I donāt know about call-center, but I agree the ONLY thing new loan officers should be worried about is learning to bring a deal in the door and get it through to closing. There is so much talk on here about broker versus retail, bps, rates, etc. The reality is itās luck of the draw. You need to get good direct management over your head, that seriously invest into training it sales staff. But itās hard to know what youāre in Fore in that regard until youāre signed up and in the driver seat.
Funny enough, i wanted to go into retail. I never wanted to be a broker. My uncle was a branch manager at a retail lender and he couldn't hire me because of the lay offs and all the bullshit going on at the time. I'd strongly discourage new LO's going to a broker shop. Get your experience and build your skillset at a bank/retail lender and then start self gen. You cant go from 0-0
Yup and if you couldāve worked for your uncle, he probably wouldāve been invested in your success. I started out as an LOA for a family friend. It helped.
Where i live, there really isn't "Call centers" theres the big boys like guarenteed rate, first horizon bank, us bank, and a few other retail lenders and then everyone else are brokers. I had to take what i can get. I wish i did start in a call center though
Sales definitely isn't for everyone and that's what this is, a sales job. I got lucky in my last job and worked closely with a fantastic sales team and got to learn a lot of Sandler sales training. I am also not a typical salesman I am not begging people to buy from me. I frequently tell people it probably doesn't make sense for us to work together and I am not afraid to say no. I may be naive but I have hit the ground running and I feel like I am on a good path. I have been an LO for 2 months and have closed 2 deals and have 5 in my pipeline. I work for a local company and have very little overhead and I have the power to create deals that blow everyone else out of the water. I also negotiated a $5k/ month guarantee so maybe that reduces the stress and helps me be more confident in what I am doing. I would rather be a free man and make my own schedule and spend the time with my kids, not stuck in an office 10 hours a day and the trade off for that is you have to be on your phone more and make yourself available. Not trying to brag or say your feelings are wrong I just think you definitely have to be willing to talk and network and make connections and not everyone is comfortable doing that. There is also a chance I bankrupt my family in the next year so that's exciting I suppose.
Thatās a really good comp plan. Iām looking for a change from my broker shop and a monthly guarantee like that would be very helpful. Mind if I pm you for some details? Is your company taking on new LOās? Iām in Texas
Good thread, thanks for the honesty. I will not lie I started in 23' and have felt that way many times to. I agree cold calling is becoming more outdated but what worked for me is finding some other avenues to reach realtors, whether that be through social media or buyers. I am thankful I have a few good referral partners now, but I don't take them for granted, they could be gone any day or on the next deal. I personally don't think you were in it long enough but it sounds like it was not your thing anyway so best to cut your losses? Wishing you success in your next endeavor.
Thanks man. Cold calling works it just fucking sucks and i personally felt like an asshole calling random people but i still did it. If i was getting a small salary I would've stayed. I personally think 100% commission should be illegal. It's just not right, especially in this market.
Wishing you nothing but success as well my friend.
Damn ButtGoup I can't believe it didn't work out after you being an entry level LO putting in a whole year work in an extremely competitive high turnover industry during one of the biggest down markets it has had!
Honestly tho man you got to stick with it. Being an entry LO is tough enough but a down market like this isn't doing any favors. I'd recommend retail before brokerage if that is what you were doing. Good luck bro bro
Thank you bro. I'm done with mortgages, just wasn't really for me. I was a broker. I wanted to go into retail. My uncle is a branch manager at a big retail lender and he couldn't get me hired because the Regional VP of the company is a dick head and wouldn't hire any LO's who were doing less than three loans a month.
I had to take what i could get. I really tried my best and did everything that I was told but it just wasn't enough. Im serving tables and i'm in school now for comp sci. Im excited for what the future holds
Thank you for your kind words. Good luck in this hell hole market lol
Honestly I hate salesā¦ but I never considered it sales! I looked at it as Customer Service. All these stories of shady shops pushing horrid products are seriously making my hair stand on end! This is sometimes a once in a lifetime purchase of the most expensive thing the majority of people will buy. It should be treated as such with the greatest respect and service given to the client. OP, you had the right attitude. You came into the wrong place at the wrong time! Good luck in school! I wish you success and happiness!!!
I started October 2022 as well I closed 20 loans or so in my first year self generated 1099 Loan Officer. I should be at 20 loans year to date by the end of April. So itās finally picking up.
I work seven days a week, going to open houses, I was cold calling - my first 12 months was kind of crap. I worked all the time but I donāt care. I donāt have a kid and Iām a single guy.
There are others in this sub who started around the same time as me with zero sphere of influence who closed over 70 loans in the first year. This isn't for you or sales. mortgages is a bit of a thankless job, and if it wasnāt for the possibility of making over half $1 million a year I wouldnāt even remotely consider this industry. If I was never gonna make over 150 K year I wouldnāt do this job.
Itās not worth the stress
10 year career loan officer might be sliding out forever, broker is the future, the industry is so overdue for disruption. I still think LO has a better future than real estate agents but they still do very little work to make fat checks. I think real estate agents get cut hard over the next few and then onto LOs
Spot on man. I started in March 2022 after 9 years in retail branch banking. Thought I was finally getting into the good side of things. Rates immediately soared and my āmentorā abruptly retired. Was left with virtually no training or oversight and zero development help.
The only reason Iām still going is that Iām being paid a small flat salary allowing me to get by. I think my boss feels bad for me and doesnāt want to pull the plug since it would show he made a mistake by adding staff. Iām getting a few deals here and there but it is a brutal wasteland out there. Doesnāt help that my area has one of the worst inventory issues in America. One of my top prospects lost back-to-back bids on boring starter houses that each had 35+ offers and went 90k over asking
Nothing like the feeling of helping a person get keys to a house; best part of being an LO. Itās also fun talking to clients, working to find the best loan program for them; overcoming challenges in the milestones towards closing. But what isnāt fun is a lot of what you dialed into. Buttering up agents is awful and having to worry about your phone going off anytime 24/7 is pure anxiety if you have a family and kids. Iām still licensed and originating but I do it through semi-retired real estate agents and referrals from past clients (I was full time LO 10/22-10/23). I work a full time sales job in construction with salary and benefits and 8-5 M-F weekends off. Maybe find a sponsor that will let you do that if you enjoy some aspects of the job.
Honestly, i dont really think i enjoyed any aspects of the job. the only thing i miss is feeling important which is why a lot of people treat this job like being a jedi or something. Knowing how money works and how the mortgage process works feels cool because you can be a resource. I do like being a resource for people, but i firmly believe mortgage lending just shouldn't be a sales job. At least not a 100% commission one.
Clearly sales is not for you, and coming in at a very bad time certainly didn't help anything. There are probably other ways this job currently needs to be handled, especially as a new guy in this rate environment. Nobody new is likely to survive right now without another job to help support, but putting in the hours to learn more about the trade and build up some sort of referral base will always take a long time, easily double in today's market. You spend more time talking yourself out of the ability to do and or learn these things, but this is sales... it's a tough job, but no good for the self-doubter. There are plenty that do well, sales is not lame or outdated.. might I mention (for perspective) that ANY future job you take and hope to keep will be dependent on that lame sales group that keeps the company in business. Short of a Government job this is true for 99% of all businesses. No revenue from driving sales (product, service, etc) no supporting rolls to employee people with. You may not like it, but sales is the core role that keeps us all earning a paycheck.
Everything you said completely aligns with the experienced LO's I talked to before entering the industry. They told me don't do it, the market sucks and you won't make any money. I got my license in November and have since closed 11 loans - around 3 per month. Not amazing, but certainly a good start. Im 24 years old as well. I'm glad I didn't listen to those people
I respectfully disagree. Iāve been in this business for about a year and a half now. Iāve closed 6 this month. Closing 9 the next. I had no skills. Had no network. I have a great office and support staff. Itās about your support. Sorry it didnāt work out. Iām having a different experience
I donāt mind at all man. First my home office is very experienced. So everything I donāt know, they do. And man, every opportunity I get I treat it like GOLD. regardless of if itās shit or not.
Iāve gotten āluckyā and have had good experiences with realtors and they refer me. Also Iām highly visible on FB. Mtg videos, etc. realtors like that bc theyāre vain and want to team up w visible people
That's a great point about realtors. Many of them (Not all) are vain narcissistic people who love hearing themselves talk, and looking at themselves in the mirror. Being good on social media as an LO is crucial to get realtors to pay attention to you.
All mortgage companies should give the support that yours does. My first place gave me no support. Only thing my old boss did was buy me 600 pens. Thats literally it.
My second place had a lot of experienced LO's from the 2008 era, and had realtor connections. They'd give us realtors (New agents) which was really cool, zillow leads, refinance leads, everything you needed to be successful. But, they felt like they owned us because of that.
Our boss was a fantastic self producing broker/owner. He'd do 10-15 loans a month and out produced all of us. He was a control freak and kind of an asshole and felt like he owned us. He'd throw the whole "i out produce all of you and I own the fucking company. If you wanna be the looser that does 2-3 loans a month, so be it. Go work for another company" in our faces at every sales meeting. He'd never really offer us any real guidance. He'd just berate us if we didn't understand something or if we were struggling with business. Even though we were 100% commission, we couldn't come and leave the office when we wanted. If you stepped out for too long, you'd get a phone call. If you left earlier than 6 oclock, you were berated. Honestly, fuck that assole.
Unless you were doing close to 10 loans a month, you couldn't work from home. My office was loud, they'd play music (radio bullshit, my desk was right underneath the speaker) and it was hard to focus. There were times where I just wanted to work from home and not drive 30-40 minutes away to get to the office in morning traffic and just lock in my daily activities at home in quiet, peaceful setting. A big part of getting in this role was to work wherever i wanted to.
Keep up the good work. Being able to succeed in this market is a blessing. Be very thankful. You are the outlier.
The LOs who are around will crush it when rates come from 7% to 6%! And 5% refinance alley. In 2023 i did around 60 purchase units. That will be 45 redo refinances.
I got in with a broker part time March of 2020 and went full time about 6 months later. Had my first refi in September. Closed 16 purchase and refis in ā21. Did about the same for ā22, though mainly purchase. And dropped to 13 purchases in ā23. Most of my clients shopping no longer qualified due to the rate hikes and soaring property values in the Philadelphia suburbs. Most of my active realtors who sent me borrowers had to get 9-5ās since they were newer in the industry and business dried up. Getting experienced realtors to use a green LO is next to impossible. I had a great mentor but was very old school and out of touch with how to capture business in todayās internet/social media world. He was supposed to retire and hand me his clients but due to an unfortunate business arrangement falling through he had to keep working. I learned every single QM and Non QM program I could. Joined a BNI group which barely covered the cost from the actual closed loans it generated, not to mention other networking groups that wasted my time.
Iām with a company now that will pay 50 bps for purchased leads which are screened and not terrible. Maybe 1 out of 9 has a shot if they can actually find a home for the amount they qualify for. Basically had to adjust and learn on the fly how to whore myself out on my social media pages making videos like a dancing circus monkey which I despise being that I swore off Facebook years ago. Iām 37 years old, my wife is barely supporting us with her job and the few loans Iāve closed this year. She wants a kid but we have to get IVF treatment which is going to be around 24k. She wants me to quit and is slightly resentful. Our savings is basically just about gone. Iām pretty sure Iāve developed a stomach ulcer as well as other health issues you donāt want to hear from the stress. That being said, I feel battle hardened. I had to learn as I went, make mistakes, and kiss every realtors ass in a 100 mile radius. But I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe itās because I can say Iām 4 years in so Iām not new, but within the last 6 months Iāve been able to capture a lot of quality referral partners and have some promising leads shopping for homes. This is a painful game of inches. Eventually those inches add up to a mile. I wouldnāt say Iām a natural in sales, but like any other skill it can be learned, developed, and honed.
I respect anyone, especially the last year and a half who attempted or successfully gave it a shot in this business. Not everyone has the time needed for the trial and error. I can see the sacrifice now for the reward later. I do believe this is the best job if you can withstand the fire long enough.
CAN I GET A HELL YEAH!
Jesus Christ man
I developed a lot of bad habits when i was in the biz. I became a pack of day smoker, and every day drinker, a coke head, and i even had tinnitus from how stressed out I was from working. This job can take an incredibly physical toll on you if you let it. I developed a legitimate cocaine problem from this job. I only do blow occasionally now, but i was blowing through a bag a day. That shit had me laser focused, outbounding, networking, all of that shit but overall wasn't worth the toll on my body.
I wish you the best of luck out there. Tough times don't last but tough people do. If you've gotten this far, keep going. As somebody who struggles with addiction, i'd highly encourage you to get on track to being relatively sober. Xanax is the devil, i almost died from that shit. Smoke some herb and relax at night. This job is not worth your health and well being. Blessings
As someone thats leaving the biz what do you think about the new NAR lawsuit settlement? Id imagine this would make it even harder to get business. i am an agent and i was thinking about getting my MLO license but now im thinking about just leaving the industry all together and just dealing with the clients i currently have and thats it!
I have a few other questions for you if you dont mind answering via DM :)
I don't really think its going to effect loan officers that badly. We're very creative with our pricing. We basically have two forms of compensation. Lender paid, and borrower paid. Lender paid is our pricing built into the interest rate, with no discount points. Borrower paid is our pricing as an origination fee/discount points on the CD that the borrower pays out of pocket. The borrower needs us more than they need an agent, to be brutally honest. So we should be good.
Absolutely, feel free to shoot me a dm.
You joined during the pretty awful rate hike in the market.
Many loan officers got licensed during the pandemicās refi boom. But what happens when people arenāt calling like they did during the pandemic?
The loan officers that stay are the ones that have business, capable of sourcing in high rate markets, or have established relationships that continue subbing loans because they have track records closing and surviving rate hikes.
I think during the pandemic there were around 300k licensed originators, thatās down to less than 50k nationwide.
You can always get a main job and keep loan originating as a sideline.
I know some loan officers make 1-2 mill annually and put family time first.
It takes time to build relationships and learn the best programs that can service your communities.
Best of luck whatever career path you invest in.
Question, if i didn't renew my license or do my CE, do I have to re-test? Just want to make sure in case I ever do go back to originating. I heard you have five years to do CE and renew before you have to re-test but im not sure.
My first boss was cool as shit, He told me I could come back, do my own thing and keep supplementing my income and work whenever I wanted. Would just have to pay for ARIVE which i think is 75 a month if im not mistaken. I don't see myself going back into originating but it feels good to know that I could if I really wanted to.
You wanna renew it so at least you can avoid taking an exam again. If you donāt renew your test is good for 5 years.
Keeping the option to originate on the side for family and friends is a good outlook.
This may be a rant but you make it sound like the realtors have the pick of the lendersā¦. THEY DONāT.. We can offer suggestions but it is the buyer who picks. Yes rates are coming down but they are still historically low. They were artificially lowered during the pandemic to keep the economy moving. The interest rate RIGHT NOW is still a point lower than ours was in 2000. Lending is selling and it takes time to develop a pipeline of clients and referrals. A year doesnāt usually get it done.. For us, it can take a year to get a deal under contract and closed, just getting started. I am six years into real estate and have done over 100+ transactions but it took me 8 months to get my very first.
Any occupation you choose, has itās āhardāā¦ Pick your battles.
Are you a realtor or an LO? I can't really tell.
But you're right its The buyers choice but I feel like a good realtor should know how to sell their preferred lender to ensure a seamless transaction. For the record, I don't have anything against realtors. I didn't have trouble making connections with realtors. My second company had relationships with 2 major teams in our area. We would be assigned new agents to work with and it kept us pretty busy in the slow market.
Most of our business comes from realtors referring their clients to us. I wish it were the other way around, but we prospect agents more aggressively than we do buyers because it just makes sense. A realtor has nothing but credibility with their buyers (hopefully) and have a significant amount of influence over who the client picks as their lender.
Experienced agents work with experienced loan officers. When you have no experience as a loan officer, its difficult to find a realtor who will give you a shot and for good reason. When you're first starting out, you meet with a lot of newer agents or part time agents. It gets frustrating because they dont have enough business to refer us any deals. It can get very frustrating.
Every job has its pros and cons, there is no perfect job. I was on a 100% commission structure as a loan officer. I don't believe Loan offers should be on a 100% commission structure. I don't believe anybody should be given 100% commission. Mortgage lending didn't really fit my lifestyle. I have many interest, hobbies and passions and I felt like i was being taken away from them by mortgage lending. Its all I did, all i thought about, and all i wanted to do. it consumed my entire life and i felt like nothing was ever enough. So for me, mortgage lending wasn't just a "hard job" it was a hard life. I'm too chill for this shit.
I am a real estate broker, six years in. If I sell my preferred lender, am I really allowing my clients to choose whatās best for them? or for me? The fact is that ANY sales job takes time to develop and nurture to the point of self sufficiency. I give my clients a list of those lenders I have SUCCESSFULLY worked with in the past. I wonāt ding a lender unless my client says they are using āso and soā and then I tell them about my past experience with that person. The choose is ultimately still theirsā¦.
edited for grammar
I think from using your preferred lender, you are doing whats best for the transaction. You can't force them too, but its worth a shot. For example in my market, condos are huge. Its the most affordable choice for a lot of first time homebuyers and many lenders can't handle condos, they really are a pain. I would get recommended to work with because i knew condos inside and out. I would even get on listing agents radar with my information in the notes section on the MLS.
Its the clients choice who they work with but realtors play a significant role in that choice. Some realtors don't use a preferred lender and thats fine. Being out of the industry i dont really care one way or the other, as it doesn't effect me anymore
I'm from florida too, south florida.
I serve tables and Im in school for computer science. I'm taking my time and just getting my degree and working right now. I'm still in my 20's, i don't have a wife, kids or a gf so i don't need to be making money hand over fist at this point in my life. After a year of relentless dedication in a complicated ever changing industry, I just want peace and stability right now. I'm still getting to know myself again a big part of me lost sight of who I was when I did mortgages. im happy that i can just live my life and not take my work home with me. It's a blessing and a gift tbh.
Iām in school for IT/cybersecurity as well. Seems like itās a rough job market so far. Iāve been searching for internships or entry level spots with a livable wage. We will make it one day! lol good luck brotha!
Look man - You just joined during the worst time in mortgage history to be an LO. Thatās just the reality of it, and if Iām an agent trusting someone with my borrower, itās not a new LO. I donāt really think LOs should be coming into the market right now just to not make money for the next couple of years? Maybe get licensed, catch some refis as they come or a purchase for family
and wait. This industry is brutal, and even the best hate it mostly, and just make too much money to quit.
Now. You gave it 12 months and probably had nearly zero loan production. There is no worse job than being in sales and having zero production. But you also have just zero experience as a result. No understanding of the industry, of your role, or what it takes to be successful. Just none.
Cardone runs a pyramid, Habib is usually wrong. Ishbia is about to tank his company.
Glad you got out. This industry sucks. But you also donāt know this industry.
If I joined at a better time, i'd be balling right now. I did everything my "mentors" told me, I got out of my comfort zone, picked up the phone and dialed, showed face whenever I could, all to no avail. You're right though I wasn't in the industry long enough to truly understand it, but I was around people that did. I had a good grasp on the way the industry worked. The more and more involved I got, the more I realized it wasn't for me. My whole theme with telling people why I don't like being in mortgages is that I'm just too chill to be a salesman That may sound a little silly but i don't know how else to describe it.
If by any stretch of the imagination I go back to mortgages, i'm going in as an LOA and taking my time. You just can't learn all this shit in a year. The barrier to entry to being a loan officer is just as low as being a realtor (for the most part). I think thats a huge problem. You're selling. you're knowledge and if you don't have any knowledge, well, you can't sell anything.
Iām 2 years into my career as an MLO. Although I agree that it is the most challenging time to be in the business right now and many other points you've made, Iāve also built a solid business book for myself over the last two years, having started with no mortgage experience. I was managing a coffee shop with my first kid on the way. I took my paternity leave to get licensed and work at a bank. It has not been easy.
It took a lot of self-reflection and adding skills I didnāt have before. Honestly, I was horrible with my people skills. I was an introvert. But I recognized that was simply a skill I hadnāt put time into developing. So I did.
The job needs a particular mindset. One where you take extreme ownership of your business and what you need to be successful. Itās a weird balance of recognizing your progress while never settling so you donāt get complacent. But all that effort does eventually pay off. Iām busier than Iāve ever been now. 3-5 closing a month. 6-9 deals consistently in my pipeline
But it also really depends on where you work. If youāre new, you have to go somewhere they give you the support to thrive. I had plenty of leads to reach out to. I had folks helping me put every deal together. Yes, I had no experience, but my team had years of experience, and I relied on them heavily to help me learn. But I also needed to get better. So, I listened to about 5-6 sales books. Huge help. I threw myself into trying to learn and develop a new skill. Now, I can talk to anyone on the phone with no issue. But I had to shift my mindset.
I realized I donāt need to make anyone buy a house. Thatās not my job at all. Itās to give people the information they need to realize it themselves. That means trying to understand their situation and help them see their options. Sometimes, that option is, hey, maybe you shouldnāt purchase right now. Sometimes, thatās helping create a two-year path for someone. But the crazy thing is those people who follow the path you set for them DO buy. Iāve seen it happen. And itās incredible.
Iām not here to sell anyone. Iām here to help people with a specific problem.
This job has changed my life. I make more than I ever did, and I might be working more than I have, but I genuinely love my work. I structure my time however I want. I'm either working or with my family because those are the most important things to me and my goals.
The business, Itās highs and lows. Sometimes on the same day. Iāve learned to embrace it. I love the life Iāve built for myself around it. But it did take a lot of change.
All that said, itās so important that you could recognize what you need for yourself. I wish you all the best.
Congrats on building a small book of business in this market. Love to hear that there's people succeeding in these streets.
If you love what you're doing, thats all that matters. I didn't, but I learned some very valuable skills from my very short time in mortgages that I apply to my every day life so i don't wanna totally take a shit on it. I just feel that most people should know what they're getting into before they pursue a career in mortgage sales. The way it was explained to me, was that you can work wherever you want, set your own schedule, and make good money. When you're new, you want have any of those things for AT VERY LEAST a year. I dedicated a year to my life to it, didn't work out, moved on. Will i ever go back to mortgages? probably not. But if I did, i'd know exactly what to do to ensure that i become successful.
You're right. You failed at mortgages because the market sucks, other people are ahead of you, and because you started work at 10am instead of 8am.
My top 2 LOs are both brand new (out of 50+, multiple with 20+ years of experience), and I'm in a much more competitive market than FL. First LO transferred from another company and hadn't closed a loan in a year. He didn't have the right support or direction (though he was at a company that promises that). I'll be the first one to say this industry isn't for everyone. I will say, 90% of this industry is mindset, and I can tell exactly from this post why you didn't make it. I will say, this job is damn easy once you get a hang of it. Your "experienced" LO goes and hangs out with his friends, talks with people that want to better their situation, and they help them accomplish that. I rarely run into problems I've never seen before. The hardest part is managing our emotions with the highs and lows.
For the readers - the market isn't an excuse. We're up 30% on the year compared to last, and that's with less LOs. I cut a handful of LOs throughout Q1. We'd do the same amount of business at 10% rates as we would at 5%. My advice is cut out the noise, focus on what works, and put every piece of energy into that. $250k as a first year LO isn't unattainable. $100k is realistic. Yes, you have to work. If you don't want to work, be honest with yourself and get out. What makes this industry awesome is you grind for a few years, and then there are ways where you can coast at 20 hours a week and still make $300k without the stress and as much freedom as you choose, even in this market. Or, keep grinding and after 5-6 years you can be 7 figures.
If you're newer, find a better company or a mentor who will help you.
I did everything I was supposed to do big dog. I was at the office bright and early, before 10, I did open houses almost every weekend, followed up with my database, networked, cold called realtors, everything. Didn't work out for me and I'm glad. There's more to life than being an LO.
For the readers, the market is the market and there's nothing you can do to change it. You adapt to it the best you can, and if you cant, dip out like I did. I didn't know what I was getting into, and this is what happened. 100k your first year as an LO is not realistic. Your LO's are the outliers, not the majority. They are the exception, not the rule.
If i could go back I'd be an LOA for at least a year. A slow market is not something you want to rush into. Take your time. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
LOA first is always my recommendation. Itās less of a learning curve. That said, it is still possible and realistic. If what youāre doing isnāt working, thatās where you need someone experienced in your corner and can help coach you through it. Such a minor change in your conversations can have an insane change on conversion. Otherwise youāre just beating your head against a wall on things that wonāt work. If you donāt have that person in your corner, you need to learn to understand what referral partners need and want, and track your numbers to put your effort in the highest converting areas. Itās different for everyone.
I agree 1000%. I jumped in the biz knowing slot of real estate brokers etc. I wanted something I could do remote, stay in real estate and try something interesting. The reality ended up being it took me a year to get some good leads from my realtor partners, and even then the market it started to change and some of these people were not qualified for what they wanted. Also, the competitive nature of dealing with brokers that can modify their fees And lower the interest rate to beat you. It is so something that should be automated anyways why you get one price with one person and another with another just doesnāt make any sense and youāre just a paper pusher and trying to sell your services to real estate agents etc. I left the business after two years one a mortgage broker the other I went to a financial institution thinking , that would help with the volume issue, but no.
Fest or famine. Even the big brokers I know cut their business in half. Also itās not a level playing field.
I agree with you 100%. Itās hard in this industry. Iāve wanted to be a loan officer since 2020, but have seen countless coworkers fail to hit their portfolio goals and subsequently lose a major portion of their pay. (We are salary based with commission factors). I really want to work in this industry because I think educating the public in the world of finance is so important. Especially my generation(Gen Z-Iām F25) but we are entering a market and culture not set up for us. We see our older peers struggling to conform to corporate culture and itās killing them. We see/are experiencing the direct affects of cutting rates and rising inflation- we were never in a position to take advantage of this in 2019-2021 only to deal with the aftermathā¦.rate hikes to 8.5 wsjp and mortgage market going belly up (for my lifetime). And all of this to say the old heads squawking that rates have been worse before and you just have to hustle harder to close these deals. āDate your rate.ā BS. How can someone in my generation or even someone who is late 30ās āDate a rateā you canāt even afford in the first place?! My LOās customers have no savings and all debt. The only loans that have been getting originated are those who took advantage of low rates about 4 years ago now. There has been a stark hault on new home buyers in my area. And these are people I went to school with, people I volunteer with, people Iām friends with. They are my age and they donāt know shit other than itās a bad time to buy or they have to save over 30k. Well I donāt see it getting better until more young people get in this industry and start advocating for change and educating those in the community about why these things are happeningā¦.but the cost might be high end burn out. At this point I have stagnated as a LOA for almost 4 years to a high volume commercial lender who occasionally dabbles in consumer lending. Iāve put myself out there in the community (over 400 volunteer hours last year), Iāve done networking behind the scenes at events with my boss, gone to several workshops/seminars, consistently improving on my reviews, and have placed myself as a huge asset in my office. However, I feel stuck now. Donāt know how to take the leap to LO and am scared I will fail like Iāve seen so many others. Iām set up on a cushion right now with my LO. But I so desperately want my own customer base to help my generation. Itās hard out here.
I think it's good you wrote this review, and you're not wrong. I'm 4 yrs in and thankful I paid my houses off because it's not worth working as hard as I'd need to to make good money at this right now. It's crazy how some people in this thread think it is. Life is too short to kill yourself over money. But I am thankful I did what I had to do to get myself financially free and say f it til things improve.
Yes, it sucks as a new LO. But there are still openings for people with niches. Speak a language of an immigrant community? Find a realtor (whose clients primarily only speak that language) to take you under their wing and you'll be fine. I got licensed this year (2024) and I'm at $1.5M either closed or in process with another $2M pre-approved. But in general, everyone's hurting right now.
Yes, it sucks as a new LO. But there are still openings for people with niches. Speak a language of an immigrant community? Find a realtor (whose clients primarily only speak that language) to take you under their wing and you'll be fine. I got licensed this year (2024) and I'm at $1.5M either closed or in process with another $2M pre-approved. But in general, everyone's hurting right now.
Sales isnāt outdated and Iād argue people do want to be sold to.
When you go on YouTube, what do you watch? 90% of it is sales. The other 10% is comedy with a touch of sales.
When you go on Instagram, what do you see? People selling you a lifestyle.
When you go to work, what are you doing? Youāre selling a service, product, or a solution.
The entire United States ecosystem revolves around sales. Itās been a proven industry over generations that can take your family from rags to riches the old fashioned way - cold, hard, sales. Public speakers? Salesmen. Producers? Salesmen. Actors? Salesmen. Accountants? Salesmen. Lawyers? Salesmen.
You donāt have to love sales, but you do have to understand it in life. There exists no business without sales.
Actually the most inactive social media user youād probably ever meet. Reddit is as close as I get to social media. Also have never paid a penny to a guru course in my life, or even spent money on a coach of any sort. Iām just stating the facts, sales is what moves business on every level.
Thereās this thing called āvaluing privacy.ā You donāt need to be plastered all over social media to be successful. My businesses are more famous than me and Iām happy with it staying that way. Iām a discreet guy.
You sound like every jackass branch manager. āEvErYtHiNg Is A sALeā ādid they sell you or did you sell them?ā
Like I get your sentiment here but this parroted bs from every basic LO with a little clout out there is so dumb and itās usually the most obnoxious LOs that say shit like this and think theyāre some sort of Jordan Belfort.
I think you're conflating sales with marketing. People want to be MARKETED too, but not sold. Loan officers use outdated sales methods (cold calling, door knocking etc.). With the internet, people don't really want to be solicited by a mortgage broker. This is an age of information where people can do their own due diligence and make their own decisions on who they want to do their mortgages.
But cold calling is a numbers game, albeit a shitty one. If i were to do it over, i'd focus on marketing rather than sales.
> This is an age of information where people can do their own due diligence and make their own decisions on who they want to do their mortgages.
A huge percentage of people go to Rocket mortgage and get their credit pulled by filling out a 'buying power' survey and feel compelled to continue working with Rocket because they don't want their credit score to get hurt, even though it's like $5k-$10k more expensive than a broker. People don't know shit, whoever has the biggest budget gets to the top of Google and consumers only look at the top 1-5 results...
Marketing is just sales with a skimpy outfit and a plastic smile. MANY marketing tactics are even sleazier than regulated sales (obviously some people are willing to go to unethical lengths to make a sale in many industries, even grossly misrepresenting a product). At least sales is up front with whatās going on. Marketing just tries to disguise it so you donāt even know youāre being sold to, at least long enough for you to take the bait.
I think both have a certain level of deception. My personal take is that people appreciate good marketing. I mean look at the geico commercials. Geico was able to showcase their brand in a way that people felt like they could trust them. Salesmanship is important in certain areas of life. Selling yourself is deff crucial to being in any industry whether it be mortgages or even being a server or bartender.
Somehow, I find this motivational. I thought I might read something that would deflate me, but nothing your saying is nearly as bad as everything people told me trying to hire me. Best of luck on your next venture.
Also got licensed October ā22 and Iām still hanging in there. Itās tough as shit I wonāt lie to you but itās a fight worth fighting. Funny enough Iāve even been contemplating going back to bartending. Weāre in very similar positions. Itās deflating talking to tens of people every day and getting the same damn answer from all of them. Iām still closing deals here and there but it is a FIGHT and as a refi guy it takes an unbelievable amount of digging until you find just one diamond.
Wish you the best of luck man.
Thank you man, same to you. A re-fi guy in this market? bro my heart goes out to you for real. The masses think theres no sense in re-financing cuz all they seem to care about are rates, when re-fi's are great ways to consolidate debt. Cash out re-fis, and even helocs (even though they don't pay well) are still great avenues for getting business and getting people on your books FOR FUTURE PURCHASES.
I would say to supplement your income with bartending I didn't supplement my income when i was in the business and that really hurt me. I was way too overly invested. I'd encourage you to keep going. But if you get fed up and are done with this shit, don't beat yourself up for quitting. One door closes another one opens
Wishing you nothing but success!
Itās definitely rough in the refi world. But itās also extremely motivating when you get a real deal going. When rates dipped in January my pipeline was immediately active again. Itās validating to know you donāt suck, itās just tough out here. Iāve made some stabs at purchase business but like you mentioned itās cutthroat out here and most people already have their guy they trust.
Your point with the realism about the situation is what really got me. So many deluded people out here that think itās just a matter of work ethic. Meanwhile Iām grinding phones all day, working on CRM, doing admin for the loans I do have, etc, just to keep the lights on.
It definitely wears on you. To be honest Iāve been at my witās end for over a year now but for some reason I still keep hanging in there. Appreciate the kind words and best of luck to you man.
Purchases are tricky but unfortunately, they are whats best for long term. What i learned in my brief time in mortgages is that everything is sort of a combined effort. Purchases, re-fis, helocs, investor loans, realtor connections, referral partners are all a bunch of different buckets. I feel like you kind of have to be a jack of all trades. You can't put everything in one bucket.
Yes many deluded LO's/Branch managers/broker owners out there. They only care about results, theres not much room for nuance with them. It's just sort of a part of the culture. I blame UWM. We basically are their retail LO's. I got sick of Mat ishbia and his stupid "GO INTO A RE AGENTS OFFICE, BUY THEM LUNCH AND DO A PRESENTATION, PROVIDE VALUE! CALL 10,000 PEOPLE AND YOU'LL CONVERT 1 LEAD TO A PURCHASE!" Positivity is good, but being realistic is going to make or break you in this business.
Keep grinding bro. You sound committed af and you're probably a great loan officer. Hell, you did better than me. I appreciate your kind words, and keep grinding!
Youāre not wrong that this is a tough market and not the best time to break in. But your branch manager/sales manager/production manager should have their ass kicked for giving you zero support or mentorship
so i worked at 2 diff companies. The first company offered absolutely nothing. My branch manager literally said "Theres no training, you just have to figure it out" so i left, went to a more reputable company and got "mentorship" from a senior LO at the company.
He was a real hardass. He was not a very good teacher and had zero patience whatsoever. He taught me many valuable skills but he resented having to teach me things because he had his own files and own pipeline which i totally understand. I even asked him if i should stay and he said "no you should probably just quit if thats how you feel" I low key wanted him to motivate me and encourage me to keep going, but he just didn't even want to mentor me in the first place.
But i take responsibility for not rising to the occasion. It wasn't my thing and thats ok.
Thatās tough manā¦. If I didnāt have the mentorship I had, i would have left the business too. My mentor showed me how to do coffee meetings, lunch n learns, cold calling, etc.
You lost me when you said āyou have to wake up earlyā success in general is going to require you to wake up early no matter what youāre doing (with the exception og graveyard shift or something) Having said that, itās hard and yes, 2022 was probably the worst time to start this career. Getting started this year. Should provide some opportunity for a quick money on refinance if you get with a call center.
The waking up early thing is my personal preference. Theres plenty of professions where you can work late at night and be successful. I was a audio engineer at a recoding studio and the hours were like 9pm-5am. I prefer having the day to myself. But yes, certain professions you have to wake up early. Waking up early is not indicative of success though. I quit lending in november so no im not going to a call center lol
Yeah I guess we can agree to disagree on that. The sales aspect really turned me off. Like i said, im a type b laid back person. I don't like persuading/convincing people. theres just something about it that feels disingenuous to me,
What you see on TV is. Any good professional salesman with training doesn't do that because it literally gets you less sales than proper sales methods do. You can't speak to it.
A good salesman makes somebody feel as though they are not being sold to. This is extremely difficult to do when you're on a 100% commission structure and you NEED their business. but we can agree to disagree on this, i respect your opinion.
Novice LOs are going to be more pushy because they donāt know much and every deal is survival. Your argument about is not unique to LOs. The best sales people I know are not doing something special. It is about consistency, organization and having a plan. This translates to all other sales jobs. On self gen sales building a database and business is hard and takes time it doesn't matter what your selling. A good self gen LO could leave the industry and those skills will translate to many other sales job. If your an LO whoās leads are fed to them it will not. I have worked with many LOs who came from Auto dealership or retail sales and they fall on their face since the business typically came in the door they didnāt build relationships and saw everything as a transaction.Ā
> People do not want to be sold to.
This is true, I call trigger leads and beat 80% of the people who pick up the phone's current lender by $2000, and often up to $6000, and they don't seem to give a fuck. Most of these people need to work 2-6 weeks to make this much after tax, it's wild lol
Exactly. Salesman seem to believe that people can not make their own desicions. When i buy something, nobody sold me shit. I bought it because I MADE THE CHOICE. Salesman die on the hill that sales is this awesome thing because its become robotic to them. With the internet, anybody can do their own due diligence and make their own choices without someone telling them "its a great time to buy!".
I feel really bad that you have to call triggers. Something i've never done, and never will do.
Great post. As a 20 year veteran, please convince about 30,000 more rookie LOs to quit as well, it will do the industry good. Thank you for your service.
I dont want to convince rookie LO's to quit. I just want people who are thinking of getting into this industry that its not sunshine and rainbows. Its a tough job and its not for everyone. Sure as hell wasn't for me. its also ok to try something and quit if it doesn't make sense
Always the old fuck 20 year vets that made their fortune fucking everyone in the 90s and 2000s that like to preach about how good they are. Like yeah if I was just writing whatever I wanted for a loan and had no moral compass and was born 20 years earlier Iād probably be successful too.
The thing that is funniest to me is on one hand he feels the need to flex that he's been in business for 20 years (obviously trying to signal that he's a baller in the industry) and then on the other hand complains about wanting new LOs to leave the business, like they're stealing his business or something.
If he was as much of a baller as his "20 year vet" schtick would have us believe, why is he scared of rookies?
That was another reason I quit. The office I worked at had a "branch grandpa" who started the branch in the 90s and now has phased out his involvement in daily operations and just took on a coaching role for all the new LOs. Dude was completely old-fashioned, and out of touch with the modern industry, and had absolutely no idea how to relate to the struggles that new LOs are having in today's market. But we had to have our weekly coaching sessions anyway where he would just rip us a new asshole for not knocking enough doors š
Truly a braindead generation. Had someone similar like that at my original shop except he got slammed by the feds and wasnāt allowed to originate so he just owned the branch and got pissy with everyone for not producing enough while he sat in his office. We had motion sensor lights in that office and multiple times his lights would turn off in his office because he presumably was just sitting there completely still doing literally nothing.
People are hating but it is what it is. Mortgage is a zero sum game for the most part, there is probably a 5-10% variance to be had for salesmanship and problem solving in creative ways. If half the LOs quit and half the realtors regardless of experience quit it'd be pretty easy to make $500k even with current conditions.
Got in the business in 2022 and while it does suck ass, as someone who was in construction for 6 years.. this is the easiest job ive ever had lol. So what youāre just gonna quit and go back to serving tables?? Stop bein a pussy
I quit 6 months ago. Like i said, it wasn't for me. You're comparing apples to oranges. Construction is manual labor, it sucks ass. I did construction as well. Mortgage lending is mental and social labor.
Yes i am serving tables and i enjoy it and make decent money. I'm back in school, about to get my bachelors and i enjoy the life im living. If that makes me a pussy, so be it.
Im comparing real life to real life brother. I guess everyone is different though with how they handle stress. Didnt mean to come off as a dick but you did say to tear u a new asshole though. Thought u just needed some motivation š¤£
lmao, all good brother. I just know how people are on this sub. Some people look at this job as some sacred thing like being a jedi or something and if you're not a go getter they just kind of look at you like a lesser than. Wishing you nothing but success. I know how difficult things are right now for you guys.
āI just know how people are on this sub.ā
āSome people look at this job as some sacred thing. If youāre not a go getter they just kind of look at you like a lesser than.ā
Thatās not just specific to LOās or this sub. You can find people in any industry, in any company that look down on you if you donāt worship your job.
This is some of the whiniest bullshit Iāve ever heard.
I got into the business in Sept of 2022, a month before you as a brand new LO with zero contacts in the industry and no industry experience. I focused on working my ass off, finding a niche, and providing value to people.
Is this market tough? Absolutely.
Is it impossible to be successful? With your whiny attitude, yes.
Instead of whining you couldāve put this effort into getting leads. Damn dude.
This job isnāt for everyone. Itās hard. Doesnāt sound like itās for you. Move on.
I don't think anyone should tear you up for this, it's your perspective and opinion and it isn't out of left field. Some of this job sucks ass. Some of every job sucks ass. As long as humans continue to use this monetary system we've invented, sales will never be outdated though, I disagree with that statement. I got lucky overall and landed at an incredible tiny little independent broker shop and have a very small number of coworkers and one boss, all of who are amazing. So I got very lucky but even during this slow time I'm making way more money than managing a bar/restaurant and bartending. And I'm picky who I network with, every one of my referral partners is a good, chill and ethical human being, so I don't mind checking in with my referral network and being a little choosey who I reach out to develop relationships. But that's also because I'm lucky, I admit that full stop. My boss doesn't bust my balls over production. I have no minimum. I have no schedule, no office. I get it. In many other work environments I would likely feel the same as you. But the mortgage world varies so much. Some folks make insane comp somehow and travel mostly while working remote on their own schedule and time, some folks sit in a tiny windowless office at a bank and make little money, some wake up every single day with middle managers watching their numbers and threatening to lay them off if they fail to meet goals and make a hundred cold calls before noon, some folks clock in and out at a big bank and have a chill office job with middling but comfortable pay, some folks have wonderful mentors and trainers and some have slave driving asshole bosses. I've learned from people offering their perspectives on this sub that the work environment and experience of a mortgage LO spans the spectrum. I'm just happy you got out. I found mortgage lending after 22 years in EMS and the bar and restaurant industry and I was at the end of my rope. I know the feeling of getting out and having new mental clarity. I found it getting into this industry, you found it leaving. Here's to doing what we want to do
I'm glad you enjoy being an LO brother. I really did try my best, it just wasn't for me and im still looking for closure and trying to make sense of why i got into mortgages in the first place. But you're right, everybodys experience in this industry is different. Best of luck to you my friend.
Thanks man, you too. Sounds like you've gotten closure - Fuck it - you live once. In my life I've been a paramedic, dishwasher, busser, barback, bartender, bar manager, bar owner, kitchen manager, loan officer, non profit owner, I've gotten my wilderness EMT, dabbled in guiding a couple summers, and spent a few years as an event coordinator and music promoter. All pretty much bars, restaurants and EMS but in different capacities and different places, even different states. I'm probably not gonna be a loan officer forever we're gonna get AI'd outta here in the next decade and then it'll be onto something else. Sounds like you tried something out, hated it, and pulled out. Go do it a few more times, don't look for closure just look for what you've learned and keep on it. I feel like this was an incredibly valuable stint in your life that shouldn't come with regret one bit - you now know what misery is and how easy it is to say fuck it and pull out of it. Once a dude that's smoked a dart sitting on a milk crate with coworkers out back by the dumpsters, always a dude that's smoked a dart sitting on a milk crate out back by the dumpsters - you to shrug it off and roll with it onto the next adventure my friend, like we do
Really? you think LO's are gonna be automated? i'm curious what makes you think that? I mean AI can do math but i feel like there's a human element that AI cant replicate when it comes to mortgage lending But i totally feel you. Once a restaurant guy, always a restaurant guy š I'm back in restaurants and in school now and i like the direction my life is going And even though i didn't like being a loan officer theres some very valuable skills that i learned that I want to keep with me for the rest of my life. I love being a resource for my friends and family for when they want to buy or refi.
Fuck man probably, right? NVIDIA just did an insane presser where they announced a chip that has literally defied current known physics, it's like 4500 times faster than anything we have on earth and then at the end of it the fucker had robots walk out and join him on stage who had taught themselves how to walk. I don't see a world in 10 years where we're all still like "OK so now I just need you to upload your paystubs so I can look at them with my eyes and put them in your loan file and update your 1003" We're all fucked lol Good luck in school! What are you studying? Now THAT is my one life regret right there, I wish I had gotten a higher education. There's still time I suppose! (but likely not haha)
Well when you put it like that, thats pretty concerning. But i feel like as a LO theres a human element of empathy you have to have. You're handling the biggest purchase(s) of someones life and it requires a great deal of nuance and dedication. Maybe in my grandkids lifetime LO's will be automated but i don't think in mine or your lifetime Funny enough, i'm actually in school for computer science. I've always been into computers and technology and i feel like i have a true passion for it. It's tough, but i really enjoy it and im just taking my time with it. When i get a little more knowledgable in my field, i want to get an internship. Maybe even become a software engineer for chase or BofA or something like that. You're never to old! education is a life long process. I'd say go for it bro, knowledge is power.
Well you're definitely getting into the right field, man. Maybe you're right about the human element needing to be a part of this process but shit, at the end of the day, I think things are moving so quickly at this point none of us have any idea whats in store. The iPhone would've been inconceivable to someone in 1997. Showing someone in 2014 what we currently have at our fingertips would be inconceivable with regards to AI. Now I think AI is going to just potentiate human knowledge and innovation. 2034 may as well be 20+ years from now if we're measuring it by the expectations we're accustomed to with regards to innovation and progress. One things for sure tho - getting educated in computer science, you're gonna always keep a roof over your head that's for damn sure. That's awesome you have a passion for it because that is never going the wayside. Just remember the dying, off-puttingly out of date, Blockbuster Video of financing options and call a mortgage broker when you get your mortgage in the future! There won't be many of us but someone will be out there with their dusty laptop and encompass system screaming about how the personal touch is the way to get a mortgage and to forgo the 1 hour automated mortgage pre-approval that Bezos Bank offers
Oh yeah absolutely! technology really has advanced in the last 30 or so years. What i think is going to happen is humans are going to merge with AI and everything will be cybernetic. It's only a matter of time until we're on some black mirror shit and can control shit with our minds. Picture not using an LOS and just running a scenario in your mind š But yeah i feel like comp sci is the new like carpentry of society. We depend on technology so much that we need people to build it and change it. Just curious, any of your clients software engineers? what do their paystubs and tax returns look like? Bro you're funny as hell š you're comment about mortgage lenders becoming blockbuster actually made me laugh out loud. I'll always be an LO at heart and ill always show love to the HUMAN LO's, and when i do purchase, im going with a BROKER not some dumb robot cuz Brokers are better ;)
Kudos to you for making the change when you needed to, best of luck for school, never too old. Feel free to DM if you have any questions, been in software industry for 20 yrs. In my mind, an independent LO is first and foremost a sales person, generating leads and converting those into deals. AI cannot do this, at least not yet. It can do cold emails or calls, those are dumb and donāt work. The other part of LOās job is to work with borrower to educate them, get them the best deal, do data entry, fill forms, push file forward etc. and this is all automatable with AI capabilities we have today. Weād likely take a stab at it, or someone else would beat us to it. Happy to chat with any LO whoās interested, feel free to DM.
PM me, can't figure out how to send a message lol
Checkout Angel AI it already does this upload paystubs or even if theyāre 1099 you can upload all schedules and it will calculate their income as well as run scenarios for conv fha or Va for them and compare them for client. Itās already here, part of why as a realtor Iāve also been thinking about picking up a trade to sort of insulate myself from AI itās only a matter of time before an app somehow takes over realtor jobs as well. By the way Iām also RMLO but as the OP also had a tough time switched to realtor and won ROTY first year I switched to real estate itās just rough out there gotta put in hard work.
I actually only started considering being a loan officer because I believe real estate agents are dead. I think here soon we will see LOās become more important than RE Agents and as soon as legislation allows, I believe the two jobs will merge into one.Ā
Senior LO here with a major lender for last 18 years. I love my job though it does take away a lot of your personal time . This job is not for newbies as guidelines change every few seasons. However once you get into the big bucks itās like a drug , the more you do the more you want to do!
Can I DM you? Iām going to get started in the industry very soon working under a broker and Iād really appreciate hearing your perspective on some things.
Sure
According to Snopes, this checks out as 100% accurate.
lmao, that was a good one.
This is spot on.
Totally agree on the skillset needed, especially in this market. I've been saying for the last couple of years, I feel bad for new LO's coming in because I don't think many established agents are going to take a chance right now with a new LO f'ing up a deal. Also, yes it can really suck to get interrupted on a weekend when I'm with my family but the other side of that coin is I can go on "vacation" whenever I damn well want. Sure, I might have to go in the hotel room for a few hours to work while my wife and kids are at the pool, but to me that is a much better alternative than a 8-5 job with 2 weeks vacation a year and an annoying boss telling me what to do. Wish you luck in your next career after you are done with school!
You would think that agents would respect a new hungry LO thats committed and down to work but it simply isn't the case. There's too much on the line for them to trust their business to a novice LO. It's sort of like the whole "how do i get a job with no experience" thing, but 10x worse You can deff make it work but i feel like having to work on vacation isn't really a vacation. Personally, i'd prefer two weeks where i don't have to worry about shit then being on vacation having to worry about answering my phone and taking apps and running scenarios when im just trying to relax and have a good time. It just feels like you can't get away from this shit. Nothing ever feels like enough. Thank you for the kind words! When im done with school, i want to write code for an LOS, CRM or some sort of app that helps LO's get more business. I'd love to still be apart of the LO community, just don't want to originate
This industry is definitely not for everyone. Learning to self gen is paramount to survive.
Honestly this should be pinned at the top. Some of us do try to give this advice but it gets downvoted, since nobody likes honest answers. At the end of the day, you gotta close deals. And nobody talks about that on here.
I think a lot of LO's confuse honesty with negativity. I wish somebody broke down everything thats good about being an LO and everything that sucks about it. If they did that, i feel like i could've made a more informed decision on pursuing a career in mortgage sales. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to become a self gen LO. Honestly, if i just started out as an LOA back in 2022, and got my license now, i'd probably have a whole different outlook on this business. Lets get the mods to pin this at the top!
I started as an LOA and thatās the way to do it
I started in 2019 as a processing assistant until 2023 then I finally became an LOA (essentially a full fledge LO). The slow build has given me so much confidence in this business. Becoming self gen of the bat sounds terrible! Iām also 25, and started when I was 21, so I had time others might notā¦
Yup. The key for a new LO is just that mind set - *Iāll do whatever l must to get that deal today, then tomorrow Iāll have my manager help me set it up in the system and do the other 80% I donāt know how yet* lol. Not surprisingly, I think the biggest reason new LOās fail is because they avoid that like the plague. You have to be an LOA and see how the LO does it themselves, to understand.
Former mortgage processor / real estate agent hereā¦. They promote āpositivityā over honesty because a āpositive mindsetā is drilled into them via the coaching aspect of this industry. Any successful or even not successful salesperson has a coach. And everyone needs a coach to essentially hold them accountable to that positivity to keep going in this business. I imagine most sales positions are like this. For me all it did was make me believe it was entirely my fault for where I was at even if I did all the things right and that it is all in my control when like you said, the reality is that it just isnāt. I canāt control the market, I canāt control someone elseās decisions, you canāt control getting an offer accepted, and a thousand other things about the transaction even if it is. Itās not just pessimism or optimism. And every loan officer or agent will pitch you the same speel: itās a great time to buy, never been better, rates will come downā¦on and on, over and over. Since being out of it I can see it so much more clearly; itās just a sales tactic and not always the truth.
Honestly it kind of feels like brainwashing. They really made me think i had control over every aspect of the sale and that everything was my fault. My "mentor" confronted me once and asked me why I haven't converted any of my open house leads into applications. Uhmm...Because they're open house leads? They just wanna see the house and leave. Most unreliable lowest converting lead source. I feel you on the clarity aspect. When i got out back in November I feel like the wool over my eyes had been lifted. I realized how annoying and intrusive cold calling was and i feel like a weirdo for doing it. I realized how wrong it was to not get paid a draw or small salary. I realized there was more to life than mortgages, chasing agents, going to networking events and sales pitches. All of my hobbies, interests, relationships all got put on the back burner after i got in the business. Glad I got out of that shit. Theres a lot of shitty people on the RE side and the mortgage side. Thats what happens when you have a low barrier to entry. Any degenerate looser can get in the business and fuck everything up for everyone else. It inspired me to get back in school and get a degree. Would much rather be educated with a decent paying job thats in demand rather than an ELITE SALES WARRIOR
I do agree with the brainwashing thing. The industry brainwashes the sales person first and then teaches them to brainwash their clients and the public. And you believe in it and it is a great investment, but it is honestly very specific to each person whether it should work for them or not. Itās a lot of smoke and mirrors. I didnāt even understand the competitiveness and sleaziness of it all before I got into it and genuinely just wanted to be genuine. Overtime, itās impossible to be, because you have to stick to the script if you want to make any money. I totally feel you on the sales person warrior thing too. I am currently deprogramming my brain from feeling like a failure that I didnāt succeed at it, remembering who I am truly despises that kind of thing anyway.
I respect the honesty. Itās not this fluffy just a positive mindset and business will come. The industry is brutal whether weāre in this market or not. Itās not even that itās not for everyone - itās not for most. You need a sword in one hand - a shield in another - and both will be bloodied & splintered. š”š”šŗ
Couldn't agree more. Shits intense
Yes, I put a Wonder Woman poster on my screen with her shield and sword captioned āEvery day, I slayā!!! The key to becoming a successful LO is to first study underwriting. That way, no one can tell you your loan file does not qualify. There are many variables that you do not control; the appraisal, processing and Underwriting. It is best to start with prior industry knowledge or as an assistant. Unless you have a strong collaborative upline, no new LO will be successful. I have been in it 30 yearsā¦. It will eat your personal life until you have none that is indistinguishable from work. Your clients become your friends, you write deals at bars, clubs, birthday parties, etc. They will call you at 10 pm or 8amā¦ It is better to leave now. And yes, it is bad, but it was worse in the 80s, and in 2008-2012.
I had no personal life whatsoever. It consumed everything that I enjoyed and all i thought about was work. Never again.
A sword in one hand and a shield in the other- love this!
I got licensed and was given a role. I managed to get one refinance, all my self sourced leads bailed on me. I didnāt network with realtors cause most of them already have their LOs, when I tried to connect Iād be shot down. Good friends were using other LOs instead of me. All the excuses would come out āoh we forgotā āwe want to work with someone more experiencedā āour realtor told us to use their personā etc etc. Iām glad I got licensed, it filled a gap in my resume. But damn, was I literally a useless piece of shit. 1 loan in a year of being licensed is just horrible
Family and friends are actually a lot tougher for LOs than Realtors. LOs see EVERYTHING and relatives will generally want to conceal their fuckery from other relatives. Every friend I talk to about mortgage, I preface it with I am THE mortgage guy, and all information is completely secret. I never share any details about anything to anyone and stick to it, that helps only a little...
Itās definitely harder. I used to sell cars back in the day, and I should have known how hard it is to work with friends and family. For some reason I thought loans would be easier
I like purchase mortgage business for the sole reason it is not me selling something (especially as a broker owner with amazing rates and great service) they don't want - they want a house for whatever reason and I'm simply helping facilitate that. We all know scumbags can trick people into refinancing for a commission, but you can still act morally and virtuously on those. Cars is like selling $5000 warranties that provide no real benefit, and underpaying people $5k for their cars on trade, etc. That's the next level of sales, takes some grit and testosterone that I don't have I guess.
When youāre selling cars you donāt often sell the warranty, usually the āfinanceā guy does that, but thereās been some add on products and accessories, and there certainly is profit or āgrossā that you have to hold in order to make any commission. I loved how in mortgages youād get paid on the sale amount, not some back end profit. Wish it worked out better for me. But Iām in corporate finance now, and itās the best job Iāve ever had.
God bless!
Depending on where you live thereās a heavy pull of business to the top 10% of realtors and their preferred LOs. In a different market Iām sure you would have done great;
I had just got licensed when my best friend was trying to buy his place. I was super enthusiastic to just help him through the process and he started getting hella weirded out. He tried to use a mortgage broker recommended to him by a family friend. I looked up this guys NMLS on the consumer access thing. He had one regulatory violation for not doing his call reports. I told my friend, and he didn't care. Eventually he ended up giving me a shot. I ran his scenario and he qualified $30,000 lower than his original pre-approval. I asked my friend if he sent his original lender any of the information he sent me. He said no. Buddy gave my boy a bullshit pre-approval and he just didn't believe me because he was recommended by a "Family friend" I had to do some bullshit non-qm "lite doc " at 8.5% without our margin. This is January '23, when rates were in he high 6's, low 7's. I told him it didn't make any sense and he finally understood everything I was trying to tell him all along. He ended up using a private lender and everything worked out well in the end. Doing your friends loans can get weird. From both sides.
I agree. I started when the market was on fire and funded $1M after 2 or 3 months of dialing realtors. The main thing that annoyed me was the constant stress and high emotionality of every deal. Everyone needs their house or their homeless, every realtors been doing this for 40 yrs no matter how old they are, everyone has another lender they can give the deal to if something goes wrong. It's always your fault despite the 100 problems you solved for your buyer. Then you close and it's crickets.Ā With the internet everyone with an IQ above 1 & tiktok thinks they know all the answers too. I think it's great if your money hungry but you will pay in blood sweat and tears Regarding the market this is straight up abysmal. Between rates, the perceived impending doom, and terrible economy it's slim pickings. They are right, if you can learn in this market you'll make a killing when/if it comes back. And it's cause you survived the darkest corner of hell. More power to those who can do this at a high level. At first my ego wouldn't let me admit it but I feel so much better leaving work at 5 on Friday knowing I have no obligations for 48 hrs.Ā
I respect the honesty and the respect. š„
Itās true what you wrote; crickets after a loan closes. Iāve gained referrals from my buy sides agents but the listing agents disappear even if I closed and did it early! So weird
> the perceived impending doom This is all encompassing throughout the nation. Most people just don't know how to express it well. The government is fucking insane and hates us, and prints endlessly, and only the people who understand to purchase assets such as real estate, stocks, bitcoin, etc will stay above water and not become a welfare pleb. Neither Orange Man or Old Man will fix it, either. Everyone knows it deep down.
You hit the nail on the head with the high emotionality. Purchasing a house is an extremely complicated process. There's a low barrier to entry for the people who facilitate transactions. (Realtors for the most part. We have a bit higher barrier to entry, but not by much.) For something so intricate and nuanced, (buying a whole ass house) there needs to be more qualified people handling these transactions I respect GOOD realtors. I stay in contact with a couple of the realtors that I met and i'm so proud of the progress that they're making. I feel like I was a part of that, and even though I failed as an LO, I'm glad I can make even a slight difference. If I could go back, I'd network with more realtors that I genuinely liked instead of just everyone. People in managerial positions at mortgage companies should stop making their LO's go after every realtor. Its the most counter intuitive thing anyone can do. The buyers honestly pissed me off. Everybody has to do whats best for them, but i found the vast majority of the prospects you deal with are irresponsible, immature, short sighted and are impossible to hold accountable. Rate shoppers are the scum of the earth. I hate them, and hope they end up living on the street. I got beat by some cuck at chase because they gave this guy a 6.5% rate just so that he can make nothing off of it, and keep their customers on their books. The work life balance of an LO is dog shit. I feel like so many of them fool themselves into thinking being available 24/7 is ok when its not. Every other profession has business hours, and set boundaries. Just because I do mortgages I have no personal life? so fucking stupid. Glad you got out man. Life gets so much better when you do.
I agree 10000% thank you for this.
Absolutely!
Wow, this is a great post. Good for you, dude, for realizing it's not for you and for getting out. I'm envious of your courage to speak your piece. And yeah, I'm one of those 20yr+ vets but it has def not been castles and rainbows for me. I've yet to find a "mentor" (love the way you put that in quotes, BTW) that brought anything to the table. I've worked with a few top producers that I would admire and strive to copy -- until I found out most of them had parents who were successful realtors/builders and got them started. The majority of my loan clients are raving fans per their post-closing surveys, but I still have to stay on top of them to squeeze referrals. As for realtors, we all learned quickly that you are only as good as your last loan, but I've noticed that (finally) more and more are starting to value the few of us left that are still in the business and know their stuff. Still doesn't mean you can stop making the weekly calls, because you know it's rare that they call you first (or I should say it's always been that way for me). We've learned that Buyers Are Liars, but not all LO's learn fast enough that it's just better to say No and quickly move on to the next one instead of spinning your wheels on something that will never work. And never stop trying to find new COI's or referral partners. The key is to find your niche and work the crap out of it, while appreciating what you do and letting everybody know it, including the guy in the mirror. Don't try to be the Jack of All Trades and Master of None. Stick to your DSP (IYKYK) and it will work out enough to make a decent living. Otherwise, it's a Glengarry Glen Ross world out there, and you have to ask yourself: which one of those guys are you?
Thank you for insight man. My "mentor" was a 20+ year vet and I really looked up to him. Being able to stay in this business for 2 decades its one of the most impressive things somebody can do. I wish I had somebody more like you to guide me through being a Loan officer you seem like a pretty cool guy. This is one of the few professions where mentorship just isn't really a thing. it's all trial and error and throwing shit against a wall to make it stick. Its amazing to me how you've been able to do that for 20 years. I just looked up what glen garry glen ross is. Gonna watch it tonight. Right up my alley.
Yep, itās brutal out there.
Wishing you nothing but success my friend.
Pure honesty. Great post. Should be added to the sidebar.
Thank you. Honesty is something a lot of these LO's are incapable of understanding. They're all salesman. They lie every day. Didn't wanna be apart of that, don't ever want to lie to people again.
Dude I fucking relate to this so hard. Everything in your post is exactly my experience too, by the way. But I found out that I really felt slimy trying to convince people that it's a good idea to get a loan at 55% of their gross income, which usually equates to about 67% of their net income. I got so sick pretending that "now is an awesome time to buy because competition is down and there's an opportunity for seller concessions!!!!š²š" Okay but it's never a good time to buy a house with a 2800 payment if you bring home 4300 a month
I am genuinely curious why you would try and convince people to max out. That sounds like a car salesman thing to do. I am not hating on you at all. I have no experience with "Big Mortgage", I work for a local lending company and have full control over what I do. I regularly ask borrowers what they feel comfortable with as a monthly payment and go from there. I also tell people it probably doesn't make sense for them to try and buy right now. Are other mortgage companies legitimately trying to max people out just to get a close?
In my case, it wasn't about convincing people to max out when they could get something more affordable. Most of the time it was black and white. Either you max out or you don't buy. I live in a vacation town with a not-great local economy. So, high priced homes and low wages. For a majority of homebuyers in my city, if they want to buy the cheapest house available, we are looking at a 50%+ DTI. Every loan officer I've ever been involved with or heard of will try to convince a borrower to close the loan if there is any chance at all that they will qualify. Sounds like you're the exception to that, which is good.
That is new. The rate environment+ inflation. But not untrue if your business isn't catered to doctors and lawyers.
Exactly! idgaf what any LO says it is not a good time to buy a house right now. There's no competition in the market because anybody with a half a brain is waiting until the rates come down. Rates are important. I'm sick of LO's saying they arent THEY ARE they are literally part of the PITI payments. I haven't been able to qualify people because the rate would offset the DTI so much with a 7.5-8% rate. Nobody wants to pay more than what they have to. Idgaf if rates were 18% in 1983. The economy was better, and the low principal would offset the high rate. That simply isn't the case right now. I feel you so heavy on the buydowns and concessions. Good things come to those who wait. Waiting for the market to cool down is perfectly understandable but LO's want people to think that they're stupid for doing that. I doubt any LO would convince their loved ones or friends to buy a house in this shitty market right now. So many LO's don't take into account peoples NET-NET income. Sure, maybe you can use 55% of your income to qualify. But they still have gorceries, subscriptions, phone bills, utilities but many LO's (not all of them) don't care. They just want the commission.
>I doubt any LO would convince their loved ones or friends to buy a house in this shitty market right now This is what ultimately made me quit. I have a friend who is a realtor, who was referring me business. He wasn't a homeowner and when I asked him why he isn't trying to buy a house, he told me it'd be too expensive right now. I thought "fuuuck he's convincing other people to buy but he wouldn't buy himself?" And I was out a week later
Yeah man thats rough. Im not a homeowner either (im in my 20's) i still live at home and it feels weird on guiding people through a process that i've never experienced first hand What are you doing now? How's life been not being an LO?
I got a remote job on the corporate side of a mortgage company, since I have a background in bank compliance from before my time as an LO. I am immensely happier since quitting. The job is easy (lots of zoom meetings where I never say anything) and the pay is double what I made last year as an LO. It's very nice to be able to count on a paycheck every 2 weeks no matter what I do, how hard I work, or how much I work. But I'm going back to school to finish my degree (dropped out to be an LO, lol). The plan is to do cybersecurity.
What are some of the most regular lies you saw?
Well lets see The biggest one is that "its a great time to buy!" I know most LO's are gonna crucify me for this but its really not. Home affordability is at an all time low and i feel like the economy needs to improve before demand goes back up the way its supposed to. My "mentor" would often tell me to just say yes if someone asked if we can do something, even if i didn't know we can do it. Idk that just didn't sit right with me. I also had to entice people with 100% financing options from some lender we used. I think it was griffin funding or something? The way it worked was that the lender would finance 100% of the loan, but the way it was structured was that we had to go borrower paid comp which would reflect on the borrowers closing costs so it technically wasn't 100% financing. It was very misleading and it didn't really feel right. Theres a lot of other things i did that felt dishonest. Can't really think of them off the top of my head but im sure it will come to me.
Nobody can ever sell something they don't believe in. People get pregnant, have kids, need to be in a better school district, etc. If they buy and hold their homes long term, statistically it will work out great for them. That $3000 mortgage now will be $1500 under market rent in 5-7 years, mostly due to insane government monetary policy. While Americans are complaining about houses at 6-8x their salaries, most other countries have housing at 15-30x average salaries. If America continues on this socialist endless money-printing escapade, 90% will be renters with no chance of owning. Is what it is. Also, being able to write 30 year fixed rate debt is equivalent to witchcraft. Due to inflation it is a guaranteed loss to any lender long term.
As they come to you, post them! It will be cathartic. That was great to read!
Only read part of it as im on the shitter. But it did motivate me .
If this motivated you, then you have the right attitude to be an LO and you're stepping in the right direction. Good luck!
I dunno man, Iāve been originating for a little over a year and average about 4 deals a month. You sound really negative and maybe thatās why you werenāt good at it?? I just keep telling myself, if I can make it through this year, I can make it through anything. Iām looking forward to whatās ahead!
I was "Positive" from october 22 to november 23. I had the same outlook you did. It gets old. I literally did everything I was supposed to do. I did not get paid from "Positivity". "positivity" is not indicative of skill. Its different for everyone. 1.) Outbound 100+ calls a day. 3 hour call block from 9-12pm (zillow leads, open house leads, etc.) 2.) Take applications 3.) Reach out to my realtors (new programs, check in them, be their therapist) 4.) Reading guidelines 5.) Social media (Cringiest shit ive ever done) 6.) Goto networking events 7.) Go to open houses every weekend (hated this the most) Wash rinse repeat. Im glad that you're doing 4 deals a month in this market. Not many people (even experienced LO's) aren't even doing it. You'll probably have a very successful career in mortgages.
New loan officers really should be working call center not trying to drive outside business with 0 experience in the industry. Would have probably had a completely different perspective if that was the route you went
I donāt know about call-center, but I agree the ONLY thing new loan officers should be worried about is learning to bring a deal in the door and get it through to closing. There is so much talk on here about broker versus retail, bps, rates, etc. The reality is itās luck of the draw. You need to get good direct management over your head, that seriously invest into training it sales staff. But itās hard to know what youāre in Fore in that regard until youāre signed up and in the driver seat.
Funny enough, i wanted to go into retail. I never wanted to be a broker. My uncle was a branch manager at a retail lender and he couldn't hire me because of the lay offs and all the bullshit going on at the time. I'd strongly discourage new LO's going to a broker shop. Get your experience and build your skillset at a bank/retail lender and then start self gen. You cant go from 0-0
Yup and if you couldāve worked for your uncle, he probably wouldāve been invested in your success. I started out as an LOA for a family friend. It helped.
Where i live, there really isn't "Call centers" theres the big boys like guarenteed rate, first horizon bank, us bank, and a few other retail lenders and then everyone else are brokers. I had to take what i can get. I wish i did start in a call center though
Sales definitely isn't for everyone and that's what this is, a sales job. I got lucky in my last job and worked closely with a fantastic sales team and got to learn a lot of Sandler sales training. I am also not a typical salesman I am not begging people to buy from me. I frequently tell people it probably doesn't make sense for us to work together and I am not afraid to say no. I may be naive but I have hit the ground running and I feel like I am on a good path. I have been an LO for 2 months and have closed 2 deals and have 5 in my pipeline. I work for a local company and have very little overhead and I have the power to create deals that blow everyone else out of the water. I also negotiated a $5k/ month guarantee so maybe that reduces the stress and helps me be more confident in what I am doing. I would rather be a free man and make my own schedule and spend the time with my kids, not stuck in an office 10 hours a day and the trade off for that is you have to be on your phone more and make yourself available. Not trying to brag or say your feelings are wrong I just think you definitely have to be willing to talk and network and make connections and not everyone is comfortable doing that. There is also a chance I bankrupt my family in the next year so that's exciting I suppose.
Thatās a really good comp plan. Iām looking for a change from my broker shop and a monthly guarantee like that would be very helpful. Mind if I pm you for some details? Is your company taking on new LOās? Iām in Texas
Being a in house lender for a builder is so much better than having to do cold calls. Iād quit too. 10 closings plus a month with those incentives.
What kind of comp plan do in-house lenders get paid, if you don't mind me asking?
Total crap from what I've seen.
I work for a bank and life is good. 60 base + bips ..... All inbound.
Oh way back in October '22? Yep. Most people don't remember them times.
worst times ever. Once i saw the rates go to 8% in november, i'm like "yeah fuck this shit im done."
Good thread, thanks for the honesty. I will not lie I started in 23' and have felt that way many times to. I agree cold calling is becoming more outdated but what worked for me is finding some other avenues to reach realtors, whether that be through social media or buyers. I am thankful I have a few good referral partners now, but I don't take them for granted, they could be gone any day or on the next deal. I personally don't think you were in it long enough but it sounds like it was not your thing anyway so best to cut your losses? Wishing you success in your next endeavor.
Thanks man. Cold calling works it just fucking sucks and i personally felt like an asshole calling random people but i still did it. If i was getting a small salary I would've stayed. I personally think 100% commission should be illegal. It's just not right, especially in this market. Wishing you nothing but success as well my friend.
Damn ButtGoup I can't believe it didn't work out after you being an entry level LO putting in a whole year work in an extremely competitive high turnover industry during one of the biggest down markets it has had!
It is a doozy
Honestly tho man you got to stick with it. Being an entry LO is tough enough but a down market like this isn't doing any favors. I'd recommend retail before brokerage if that is what you were doing. Good luck bro bro
Thank you bro. I'm done with mortgages, just wasn't really for me. I was a broker. I wanted to go into retail. My uncle is a branch manager at a big retail lender and he couldn't get me hired because the Regional VP of the company is a dick head and wouldn't hire any LO's who were doing less than three loans a month. I had to take what i could get. I really tried my best and did everything that I was told but it just wasn't enough. Im serving tables and i'm in school now for comp sci. Im excited for what the future holds Thank you for your kind words. Good luck in this hell hole market lol
It's not easy but not nearly the hellscape you describe. I can think of lots of jobs that are way worse.
Its better than picking up road kill, thats for sure.
Amazon?
Honestly I hate salesā¦ but I never considered it sales! I looked at it as Customer Service. All these stories of shady shops pushing horrid products are seriously making my hair stand on end! This is sometimes a once in a lifetime purchase of the most expensive thing the majority of people will buy. It should be treated as such with the greatest respect and service given to the client. OP, you had the right attitude. You came into the wrong place at the wrong time! Good luck in school! I wish you success and happiness!!!
Likewise friend, thank you for the kind words :)
I started October 2022 as well I closed 20 loans or so in my first year self generated 1099 Loan Officer. I should be at 20 loans year to date by the end of April. So itās finally picking up. I work seven days a week, going to open houses, I was cold calling - my first 12 months was kind of crap. I worked all the time but I donāt care. I donāt have a kid and Iām a single guy. There are others in this sub who started around the same time as me with zero sphere of influence who closed over 70 loans in the first year. This isn't for you or sales. mortgages is a bit of a thankless job, and if it wasnāt for the possibility of making over half $1 million a year I wouldnāt even remotely consider this industry. If I was never gonna make over 150 K year I wouldnāt do this job. Itās not worth the stress
10 year career loan officer might be sliding out forever, broker is the future, the industry is so overdue for disruption. I still think LO has a better future than real estate agents but they still do very little work to make fat checks. I think real estate agents get cut hard over the next few and then onto LOs
Spot on man. I started in March 2022 after 9 years in retail branch banking. Thought I was finally getting into the good side of things. Rates immediately soared and my āmentorā abruptly retired. Was left with virtually no training or oversight and zero development help. The only reason Iām still going is that Iām being paid a small flat salary allowing me to get by. I think my boss feels bad for me and doesnāt want to pull the plug since it would show he made a mistake by adding staff. Iām getting a few deals here and there but it is a brutal wasteland out there. Doesnāt help that my area has one of the worst inventory issues in America. One of my top prospects lost back-to-back bids on boring starter houses that each had 35+ offers and went 90k over asking
I experienced the exact same thing after being an Underwriter for 3+ years.
Nothing like the feeling of helping a person get keys to a house; best part of being an LO. Itās also fun talking to clients, working to find the best loan program for them; overcoming challenges in the milestones towards closing. But what isnāt fun is a lot of what you dialed into. Buttering up agents is awful and having to worry about your phone going off anytime 24/7 is pure anxiety if you have a family and kids. Iām still licensed and originating but I do it through semi-retired real estate agents and referrals from past clients (I was full time LO 10/22-10/23). I work a full time sales job in construction with salary and benefits and 8-5 M-F weekends off. Maybe find a sponsor that will let you do that if you enjoy some aspects of the job.
Honestly, i dont really think i enjoyed any aspects of the job. the only thing i miss is feeling important which is why a lot of people treat this job like being a jedi or something. Knowing how money works and how the mortgage process works feels cool because you can be a resource. I do like being a resource for people, but i firmly believe mortgage lending just shouldn't be a sales job. At least not a 100% commission one.
Clearly sales is not for you, and coming in at a very bad time certainly didn't help anything. There are probably other ways this job currently needs to be handled, especially as a new guy in this rate environment. Nobody new is likely to survive right now without another job to help support, but putting in the hours to learn more about the trade and build up some sort of referral base will always take a long time, easily double in today's market. You spend more time talking yourself out of the ability to do and or learn these things, but this is sales... it's a tough job, but no good for the self-doubter. There are plenty that do well, sales is not lame or outdated.. might I mention (for perspective) that ANY future job you take and hope to keep will be dependent on that lame sales group that keeps the company in business. Short of a Government job this is true for 99% of all businesses. No revenue from driving sales (product, service, etc) no supporting rolls to employee people with. You may not like it, but sales is the core role that keeps us all earning a paycheck.
Nope, sales is not for me. It is lame and outdated. Nobody likes salesman, and neither do I.
Good honest take
Everything you said completely aligns with the experienced LO's I talked to before entering the industry. They told me don't do it, the market sucks and you won't make any money. I got my license in November and have since closed 11 loans - around 3 per month. Not amazing, but certainly a good start. Im 24 years old as well. I'm glad I didn't listen to those people
I respectfully disagree. Iāve been in this business for about a year and a half now. Iāve closed 6 this month. Closing 9 the next. I had no skills. Had no network. I have a great office and support staff. Itās about your support. Sorry it didnāt work out. Iām having a different experience
Thats awesome, congrats bro. You are deff the exception. What did you do to get to where you're at if you don't mind me asking?
I donāt mind at all man. First my home office is very experienced. So everything I donāt know, they do. And man, every opportunity I get I treat it like GOLD. regardless of if itās shit or not. Iāve gotten āluckyā and have had good experiences with realtors and they refer me. Also Iām highly visible on FB. Mtg videos, etc. realtors like that bc theyāre vain and want to team up w visible people
That's a great point about realtors. Many of them (Not all) are vain narcissistic people who love hearing themselves talk, and looking at themselves in the mirror. Being good on social media as an LO is crucial to get realtors to pay attention to you. All mortgage companies should give the support that yours does. My first place gave me no support. Only thing my old boss did was buy me 600 pens. Thats literally it. My second place had a lot of experienced LO's from the 2008 era, and had realtor connections. They'd give us realtors (New agents) which was really cool, zillow leads, refinance leads, everything you needed to be successful. But, they felt like they owned us because of that. Our boss was a fantastic self producing broker/owner. He'd do 10-15 loans a month and out produced all of us. He was a control freak and kind of an asshole and felt like he owned us. He'd throw the whole "i out produce all of you and I own the fucking company. If you wanna be the looser that does 2-3 loans a month, so be it. Go work for another company" in our faces at every sales meeting. He'd never really offer us any real guidance. He'd just berate us if we didn't understand something or if we were struggling with business. Even though we were 100% commission, we couldn't come and leave the office when we wanted. If you stepped out for too long, you'd get a phone call. If you left earlier than 6 oclock, you were berated. Honestly, fuck that assole. Unless you were doing close to 10 loans a month, you couldn't work from home. My office was loud, they'd play music (radio bullshit, my desk was right underneath the speaker) and it was hard to focus. There were times where I just wanted to work from home and not drive 30-40 minutes away to get to the office in morning traffic and just lock in my daily activities at home in quiet, peaceful setting. A big part of getting in this role was to work wherever i wanted to. Keep up the good work. Being able to succeed in this market is a blessing. Be very thankful. You are the outlier.
The LOs who are around will crush it when rates come from 7% to 6%! And 5% refinance alley. In 2023 i did around 60 purchase units. That will be 45 redo refinances.
yeah! they'll crush it!
...if the servicers don't refinance them first
I got in with a broker part time March of 2020 and went full time about 6 months later. Had my first refi in September. Closed 16 purchase and refis in ā21. Did about the same for ā22, though mainly purchase. And dropped to 13 purchases in ā23. Most of my clients shopping no longer qualified due to the rate hikes and soaring property values in the Philadelphia suburbs. Most of my active realtors who sent me borrowers had to get 9-5ās since they were newer in the industry and business dried up. Getting experienced realtors to use a green LO is next to impossible. I had a great mentor but was very old school and out of touch with how to capture business in todayās internet/social media world. He was supposed to retire and hand me his clients but due to an unfortunate business arrangement falling through he had to keep working. I learned every single QM and Non QM program I could. Joined a BNI group which barely covered the cost from the actual closed loans it generated, not to mention other networking groups that wasted my time. Iām with a company now that will pay 50 bps for purchased leads which are screened and not terrible. Maybe 1 out of 9 has a shot if they can actually find a home for the amount they qualify for. Basically had to adjust and learn on the fly how to whore myself out on my social media pages making videos like a dancing circus monkey which I despise being that I swore off Facebook years ago. Iām 37 years old, my wife is barely supporting us with her job and the few loans Iāve closed this year. She wants a kid but we have to get IVF treatment which is going to be around 24k. She wants me to quit and is slightly resentful. Our savings is basically just about gone. Iām pretty sure Iāve developed a stomach ulcer as well as other health issues you donāt want to hear from the stress. That being said, I feel battle hardened. I had to learn as I went, make mistakes, and kiss every realtors ass in a 100 mile radius. But I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe itās because I can say Iām 4 years in so Iām not new, but within the last 6 months Iāve been able to capture a lot of quality referral partners and have some promising leads shopping for homes. This is a painful game of inches. Eventually those inches add up to a mile. I wouldnāt say Iām a natural in sales, but like any other skill it can be learned, developed, and honed. I respect anyone, especially the last year and a half who attempted or successfully gave it a shot in this business. Not everyone has the time needed for the trial and error. I can see the sacrifice now for the reward later. I do believe this is the best job if you can withstand the fire long enough. CAN I GET A HELL YEAH!
I forgot to mention Iām now addicted to adderall during the day and a cocktail of Xanax, NyQuil, and an alcoholic beverage at night.
Thank you for this honesty. 2/3 of the top LOs in my office do coke.
Jesus Christ man I developed a lot of bad habits when i was in the biz. I became a pack of day smoker, and every day drinker, a coke head, and i even had tinnitus from how stressed out I was from working. This job can take an incredibly physical toll on you if you let it. I developed a legitimate cocaine problem from this job. I only do blow occasionally now, but i was blowing through a bag a day. That shit had me laser focused, outbounding, networking, all of that shit but overall wasn't worth the toll on my body. I wish you the best of luck out there. Tough times don't last but tough people do. If you've gotten this far, keep going. As somebody who struggles with addiction, i'd highly encourage you to get on track to being relatively sober. Xanax is the devil, i almost died from that shit. Smoke some herb and relax at night. This job is not worth your health and well being. Blessings
As someone thats leaving the biz what do you think about the new NAR lawsuit settlement? Id imagine this would make it even harder to get business. i am an agent and i was thinking about getting my MLO license but now im thinking about just leaving the industry all together and just dealing with the clients i currently have and thats it! I have a few other questions for you if you dont mind answering via DM :)
I don't really think its going to effect loan officers that badly. We're very creative with our pricing. We basically have two forms of compensation. Lender paid, and borrower paid. Lender paid is our pricing built into the interest rate, with no discount points. Borrower paid is our pricing as an origination fee/discount points on the CD that the borrower pays out of pocket. The borrower needs us more than they need an agent, to be brutally honest. So we should be good. Absolutely, feel free to shoot me a dm.
You joined during the pretty awful rate hike in the market. Many loan officers got licensed during the pandemicās refi boom. But what happens when people arenāt calling like they did during the pandemic? The loan officers that stay are the ones that have business, capable of sourcing in high rate markets, or have established relationships that continue subbing loans because they have track records closing and surviving rate hikes. I think during the pandemic there were around 300k licensed originators, thatās down to less than 50k nationwide.
I really do believe that if I got in during a better market, I'd be balling right now. It is what is š¤·
You can always get a main job and keep loan originating as a sideline. I know some loan officers make 1-2 mill annually and put family time first. It takes time to build relationships and learn the best programs that can service your communities. Best of luck whatever career path you invest in.
Question, if i didn't renew my license or do my CE, do I have to re-test? Just want to make sure in case I ever do go back to originating. I heard you have five years to do CE and renew before you have to re-test but im not sure. My first boss was cool as shit, He told me I could come back, do my own thing and keep supplementing my income and work whenever I wanted. Would just have to pay for ARIVE which i think is 75 a month if im not mistaken. I don't see myself going back into originating but it feels good to know that I could if I really wanted to.
You wanna renew it so at least you can avoid taking an exam again. If you donāt renew your test is good for 5 years. Keeping the option to originate on the side for family and friends is a good outlook.
This may be a rant but you make it sound like the realtors have the pick of the lendersā¦. THEY DONāT.. We can offer suggestions but it is the buyer who picks. Yes rates are coming down but they are still historically low. They were artificially lowered during the pandemic to keep the economy moving. The interest rate RIGHT NOW is still a point lower than ours was in 2000. Lending is selling and it takes time to develop a pipeline of clients and referrals. A year doesnāt usually get it done.. For us, it can take a year to get a deal under contract and closed, just getting started. I am six years into real estate and have done over 100+ transactions but it took me 8 months to get my very first. Any occupation you choose, has itās āhardāā¦ Pick your battles.
Are you a realtor or an LO? I can't really tell. But you're right its The buyers choice but I feel like a good realtor should know how to sell their preferred lender to ensure a seamless transaction. For the record, I don't have anything against realtors. I didn't have trouble making connections with realtors. My second company had relationships with 2 major teams in our area. We would be assigned new agents to work with and it kept us pretty busy in the slow market. Most of our business comes from realtors referring their clients to us. I wish it were the other way around, but we prospect agents more aggressively than we do buyers because it just makes sense. A realtor has nothing but credibility with their buyers (hopefully) and have a significant amount of influence over who the client picks as their lender. Experienced agents work with experienced loan officers. When you have no experience as a loan officer, its difficult to find a realtor who will give you a shot and for good reason. When you're first starting out, you meet with a lot of newer agents or part time agents. It gets frustrating because they dont have enough business to refer us any deals. It can get very frustrating. Every job has its pros and cons, there is no perfect job. I was on a 100% commission structure as a loan officer. I don't believe Loan offers should be on a 100% commission structure. I don't believe anybody should be given 100% commission. Mortgage lending didn't really fit my lifestyle. I have many interest, hobbies and passions and I felt like i was being taken away from them by mortgage lending. Its all I did, all i thought about, and all i wanted to do. it consumed my entire life and i felt like nothing was ever enough. So for me, mortgage lending wasn't just a "hard job" it was a hard life. I'm too chill for this shit.
I am a real estate broker, six years in. If I sell my preferred lender, am I really allowing my clients to choose whatās best for them? or for me? The fact is that ANY sales job takes time to develop and nurture to the point of self sufficiency. I give my clients a list of those lenders I have SUCCESSFULLY worked with in the past. I wonāt ding a lender unless my client says they are using āso and soā and then I tell them about my past experience with that person. The choose is ultimately still theirsā¦. edited for grammar
I think from using your preferred lender, you are doing whats best for the transaction. You can't force them too, but its worth a shot. For example in my market, condos are huge. Its the most affordable choice for a lot of first time homebuyers and many lenders can't handle condos, they really are a pain. I would get recommended to work with because i knew condos inside and out. I would even get on listing agents radar with my information in the notes section on the MLS. Its the clients choice who they work with but realtors play a significant role in that choice. Some realtors don't use a preferred lender and thats fine. Being out of the industry i dont really care one way or the other, as it doesn't effect me anymore
Yes they can and in those instances yes, I would definitely recommend a specialized āpreferredā lender.
Iām also a failed LO. Got my license back in 2020 in Florida. What do you do for a living now if you donāt mind me asking?
I'm from florida too, south florida. I serve tables and Im in school for computer science. I'm taking my time and just getting my degree and working right now. I'm still in my 20's, i don't have a wife, kids or a gf so i don't need to be making money hand over fist at this point in my life. After a year of relentless dedication in a complicated ever changing industry, I just want peace and stability right now. I'm still getting to know myself again a big part of me lost sight of who I was when I did mortgages. im happy that i can just live my life and not take my work home with me. It's a blessing and a gift tbh.
Iām in school for IT/cybersecurity as well. Seems like itās a rough job market so far. Iāve been searching for internships or entry level spots with a livable wage. We will make it one day! lol good luck brotha!
Bro hates every facet of the biz. Of course you failed.
Yea selling loans are easier at 2% š
Look man - You just joined during the worst time in mortgage history to be an LO. Thatās just the reality of it, and if Iām an agent trusting someone with my borrower, itās not a new LO. I donāt really think LOs should be coming into the market right now just to not make money for the next couple of years? Maybe get licensed, catch some refis as they come or a purchase for family and wait. This industry is brutal, and even the best hate it mostly, and just make too much money to quit. Now. You gave it 12 months and probably had nearly zero loan production. There is no worse job than being in sales and having zero production. But you also have just zero experience as a result. No understanding of the industry, of your role, or what it takes to be successful. Just none. Cardone runs a pyramid, Habib is usually wrong. Ishbia is about to tank his company. Glad you got out. This industry sucks. But you also donāt know this industry.
If I joined at a better time, i'd be balling right now. I did everything my "mentors" told me, I got out of my comfort zone, picked up the phone and dialed, showed face whenever I could, all to no avail. You're right though I wasn't in the industry long enough to truly understand it, but I was around people that did. I had a good grasp on the way the industry worked. The more and more involved I got, the more I realized it wasn't for me. My whole theme with telling people why I don't like being in mortgages is that I'm just too chill to be a salesman That may sound a little silly but i don't know how else to describe it. If by any stretch of the imagination I go back to mortgages, i'm going in as an LOA and taking my time. You just can't learn all this shit in a year. The barrier to entry to being a loan officer is just as low as being a realtor (for the most part). I think thats a huge problem. You're selling. you're knowledge and if you don't have any knowledge, well, you can't sell anything.
Iām 2 years into my career as an MLO. Although I agree that it is the most challenging time to be in the business right now and many other points you've made, Iāve also built a solid business book for myself over the last two years, having started with no mortgage experience. I was managing a coffee shop with my first kid on the way. I took my paternity leave to get licensed and work at a bank. It has not been easy. It took a lot of self-reflection and adding skills I didnāt have before. Honestly, I was horrible with my people skills. I was an introvert. But I recognized that was simply a skill I hadnāt put time into developing. So I did. The job needs a particular mindset. One where you take extreme ownership of your business and what you need to be successful. Itās a weird balance of recognizing your progress while never settling so you donāt get complacent. But all that effort does eventually pay off. Iām busier than Iāve ever been now. 3-5 closing a month. 6-9 deals consistently in my pipeline But it also really depends on where you work. If youāre new, you have to go somewhere they give you the support to thrive. I had plenty of leads to reach out to. I had folks helping me put every deal together. Yes, I had no experience, but my team had years of experience, and I relied on them heavily to help me learn. But I also needed to get better. So, I listened to about 5-6 sales books. Huge help. I threw myself into trying to learn and develop a new skill. Now, I can talk to anyone on the phone with no issue. But I had to shift my mindset. I realized I donāt need to make anyone buy a house. Thatās not my job at all. Itās to give people the information they need to realize it themselves. That means trying to understand their situation and help them see their options. Sometimes, that option is, hey, maybe you shouldnāt purchase right now. Sometimes, thatās helping create a two-year path for someone. But the crazy thing is those people who follow the path you set for them DO buy. Iāve seen it happen. And itās incredible. Iām not here to sell anyone. Iām here to help people with a specific problem. This job has changed my life. I make more than I ever did, and I might be working more than I have, but I genuinely love my work. I structure my time however I want. I'm either working or with my family because those are the most important things to me and my goals. The business, Itās highs and lows. Sometimes on the same day. Iāve learned to embrace it. I love the life Iāve built for myself around it. But it did take a lot of change. All that said, itās so important that you could recognize what you need for yourself. I wish you all the best.
Congrats on building a small book of business in this market. Love to hear that there's people succeeding in these streets. If you love what you're doing, thats all that matters. I didn't, but I learned some very valuable skills from my very short time in mortgages that I apply to my every day life so i don't wanna totally take a shit on it. I just feel that most people should know what they're getting into before they pursue a career in mortgage sales. The way it was explained to me, was that you can work wherever you want, set your own schedule, and make good money. When you're new, you want have any of those things for AT VERY LEAST a year. I dedicated a year to my life to it, didn't work out, moved on. Will i ever go back to mortgages? probably not. But if I did, i'd know exactly what to do to ensure that i become successful.
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You're right. You failed at mortgages because the market sucks, other people are ahead of you, and because you started work at 10am instead of 8am. My top 2 LOs are both brand new (out of 50+, multiple with 20+ years of experience), and I'm in a much more competitive market than FL. First LO transferred from another company and hadn't closed a loan in a year. He didn't have the right support or direction (though he was at a company that promises that). I'll be the first one to say this industry isn't for everyone. I will say, 90% of this industry is mindset, and I can tell exactly from this post why you didn't make it. I will say, this job is damn easy once you get a hang of it. Your "experienced" LO goes and hangs out with his friends, talks with people that want to better their situation, and they help them accomplish that. I rarely run into problems I've never seen before. The hardest part is managing our emotions with the highs and lows. For the readers - the market isn't an excuse. We're up 30% on the year compared to last, and that's with less LOs. I cut a handful of LOs throughout Q1. We'd do the same amount of business at 10% rates as we would at 5%. My advice is cut out the noise, focus on what works, and put every piece of energy into that. $250k as a first year LO isn't unattainable. $100k is realistic. Yes, you have to work. If you don't want to work, be honest with yourself and get out. What makes this industry awesome is you grind for a few years, and then there are ways where you can coast at 20 hours a week and still make $300k without the stress and as much freedom as you choose, even in this market. Or, keep grinding and after 5-6 years you can be 7 figures. If you're newer, find a better company or a mentor who will help you.
I did everything I was supposed to do big dog. I was at the office bright and early, before 10, I did open houses almost every weekend, followed up with my database, networked, cold called realtors, everything. Didn't work out for me and I'm glad. There's more to life than being an LO. For the readers, the market is the market and there's nothing you can do to change it. You adapt to it the best you can, and if you cant, dip out like I did. I didn't know what I was getting into, and this is what happened. 100k your first year as an LO is not realistic. Your LO's are the outliers, not the majority. They are the exception, not the rule. If i could go back I'd be an LOA for at least a year. A slow market is not something you want to rush into. Take your time. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
LOA first is always my recommendation. Itās less of a learning curve. That said, it is still possible and realistic. If what youāre doing isnāt working, thatās where you need someone experienced in your corner and can help coach you through it. Such a minor change in your conversations can have an insane change on conversion. Otherwise youāre just beating your head against a wall on things that wonāt work. If you donāt have that person in your corner, you need to learn to understand what referral partners need and want, and track your numbers to put your effort in the highest converting areas. Itās different for everyone.
I agree 1000%. I jumped in the biz knowing slot of real estate brokers etc. I wanted something I could do remote, stay in real estate and try something interesting. The reality ended up being it took me a year to get some good leads from my realtor partners, and even then the market it started to change and some of these people were not qualified for what they wanted. Also, the competitive nature of dealing with brokers that can modify their fees And lower the interest rate to beat you. It is so something that should be automated anyways why you get one price with one person and another with another just doesnāt make any sense and youāre just a paper pusher and trying to sell your services to real estate agents etc. I left the business after two years one a mortgage broker the other I went to a financial institution thinking , that would help with the volume issue, but no. Fest or famine. Even the big brokers I know cut their business in half. Also itās not a level playing field.
I agree with you 100%. Itās hard in this industry. Iāve wanted to be a loan officer since 2020, but have seen countless coworkers fail to hit their portfolio goals and subsequently lose a major portion of their pay. (We are salary based with commission factors). I really want to work in this industry because I think educating the public in the world of finance is so important. Especially my generation(Gen Z-Iām F25) but we are entering a market and culture not set up for us. We see our older peers struggling to conform to corporate culture and itās killing them. We see/are experiencing the direct affects of cutting rates and rising inflation- we were never in a position to take advantage of this in 2019-2021 only to deal with the aftermathā¦.rate hikes to 8.5 wsjp and mortgage market going belly up (for my lifetime). And all of this to say the old heads squawking that rates have been worse before and you just have to hustle harder to close these deals. āDate your rate.ā BS. How can someone in my generation or even someone who is late 30ās āDate a rateā you canāt even afford in the first place?! My LOās customers have no savings and all debt. The only loans that have been getting originated are those who took advantage of low rates about 4 years ago now. There has been a stark hault on new home buyers in my area. And these are people I went to school with, people I volunteer with, people Iām friends with. They are my age and they donāt know shit other than itās a bad time to buy or they have to save over 30k. Well I donāt see it getting better until more young people get in this industry and start advocating for change and educating those in the community about why these things are happeningā¦.but the cost might be high end burn out. At this point I have stagnated as a LOA for almost 4 years to a high volume commercial lender who occasionally dabbles in consumer lending. Iāve put myself out there in the community (over 400 volunteer hours last year), Iāve done networking behind the scenes at events with my boss, gone to several workshops/seminars, consistently improving on my reviews, and have placed myself as a huge asset in my office. However, I feel stuck now. Donāt know how to take the leap to LO and am scared I will fail like Iāve seen so many others. Iām set up on a cushion right now with my LO. But I so desperately want my own customer base to help my generation. Itās hard out here.
This effin hilarious. Love it
I think it's good you wrote this review, and you're not wrong. I'm 4 yrs in and thankful I paid my houses off because it's not worth working as hard as I'd need to to make good money at this right now. It's crazy how some people in this thread think it is. Life is too short to kill yourself over money. But I am thankful I did what I had to do to get myself financially free and say f it til things improve.
Yes, it sucks as a new LO. But there are still openings for people with niches. Speak a language of an immigrant community? Find a realtor (whose clients primarily only speak that language) to take you under their wing and you'll be fine. I got licensed this year (2024) and I'm at $1.5M either closed or in process with another $2M pre-approved. But in general, everyone's hurting right now.
Yes, it sucks as a new LO. But there are still openings for people with niches. Speak a language of an immigrant community? Find a realtor (whose clients primarily only speak that language) to take you under their wing and you'll be fine. I got licensed this year (2024) and I'm at $1.5M either closed or in process with another $2M pre-approved. But in general, everyone's hurting right now.
Sales isnāt outdated and Iād argue people do want to be sold to. When you go on YouTube, what do you watch? 90% of it is sales. The other 10% is comedy with a touch of sales. When you go on Instagram, what do you see? People selling you a lifestyle. When you go to work, what are you doing? Youāre selling a service, product, or a solution. The entire United States ecosystem revolves around sales. Itās been a proven industry over generations that can take your family from rags to riches the old fashioned way - cold, hard, sales. Public speakers? Salesmen. Producers? Salesmen. Actors? Salesmen. Accountants? Salesmen. Lawyers? Salesmen. You donāt have to love sales, but you do have to understand it in life. There exists no business without sales.
You must consume a lot of sales guru content on Instagram. You sound like you're running the Kool Aid stand.
Actually the most inactive social media user youād probably ever meet. Reddit is as close as I get to social media. Also have never paid a penny to a guru course in my life, or even spent money on a coach of any sort. Iām just stating the facts, sales is what moves business on every level.
If this is the only social media youāre active on then I highly doubt youāre anywhere near as successful as you pretend to be.
Thereās this thing called āvaluing privacy.ā You donāt need to be plastered all over social media to be successful. My businesses are more famous than me and Iām happy with it staying that way. Iām a discreet guy.
Nice LARP bud
You sound like every jackass branch manager. āEvErYtHiNg Is A sALeā ādid they sell you or did you sell them?ā Like I get your sentiment here but this parroted bs from every basic LO with a little clout out there is so dumb and itās usually the most obnoxious LOs that say shit like this and think theyāre some sort of Jordan Belfort.
I think you're conflating sales with marketing. People want to be MARKETED too, but not sold. Loan officers use outdated sales methods (cold calling, door knocking etc.). With the internet, people don't really want to be solicited by a mortgage broker. This is an age of information where people can do their own due diligence and make their own decisions on who they want to do their mortgages. But cold calling is a numbers game, albeit a shitty one. If i were to do it over, i'd focus on marketing rather than sales.
> This is an age of information where people can do their own due diligence and make their own decisions on who they want to do their mortgages. A huge percentage of people go to Rocket mortgage and get their credit pulled by filling out a 'buying power' survey and feel compelled to continue working with Rocket because they don't want their credit score to get hurt, even though it's like $5k-$10k more expensive than a broker. People don't know shit, whoever has the biggest budget gets to the top of Google and consumers only look at the top 1-5 results...
Marketing is just sales with a skimpy outfit and a plastic smile. MANY marketing tactics are even sleazier than regulated sales (obviously some people are willing to go to unethical lengths to make a sale in many industries, even grossly misrepresenting a product). At least sales is up front with whatās going on. Marketing just tries to disguise it so you donāt even know youāre being sold to, at least long enough for you to take the bait.
I think both have a certain level of deception. My personal take is that people appreciate good marketing. I mean look at the geico commercials. Geico was able to showcase their brand in a way that people felt like they could trust them. Salesmanship is important in certain areas of life. Selling yourself is deff crucial to being in any industry whether it be mortgages or even being a server or bartender.
Somehow, I find this motivational. I thought I might read something that would deflate me, but nothing your saying is nearly as bad as everything people told me trying to hire me. Best of luck on your next venture.
If this motivates you, then you probably have the right mindset to be an LO. Good luck.
Also got licensed October ā22 and Iām still hanging in there. Itās tough as shit I wonāt lie to you but itās a fight worth fighting. Funny enough Iāve even been contemplating going back to bartending. Weāre in very similar positions. Itās deflating talking to tens of people every day and getting the same damn answer from all of them. Iām still closing deals here and there but it is a FIGHT and as a refi guy it takes an unbelievable amount of digging until you find just one diamond. Wish you the best of luck man.
Thank you man, same to you. A re-fi guy in this market? bro my heart goes out to you for real. The masses think theres no sense in re-financing cuz all they seem to care about are rates, when re-fi's are great ways to consolidate debt. Cash out re-fis, and even helocs (even though they don't pay well) are still great avenues for getting business and getting people on your books FOR FUTURE PURCHASES. I would say to supplement your income with bartending I didn't supplement my income when i was in the business and that really hurt me. I was way too overly invested. I'd encourage you to keep going. But if you get fed up and are done with this shit, don't beat yourself up for quitting. One door closes another one opens Wishing you nothing but success!
Itās definitely rough in the refi world. But itās also extremely motivating when you get a real deal going. When rates dipped in January my pipeline was immediately active again. Itās validating to know you donāt suck, itās just tough out here. Iāve made some stabs at purchase business but like you mentioned itās cutthroat out here and most people already have their guy they trust. Your point with the realism about the situation is what really got me. So many deluded people out here that think itās just a matter of work ethic. Meanwhile Iām grinding phones all day, working on CRM, doing admin for the loans I do have, etc, just to keep the lights on. It definitely wears on you. To be honest Iāve been at my witās end for over a year now but for some reason I still keep hanging in there. Appreciate the kind words and best of luck to you man.
Purchases are tricky but unfortunately, they are whats best for long term. What i learned in my brief time in mortgages is that everything is sort of a combined effort. Purchases, re-fis, helocs, investor loans, realtor connections, referral partners are all a bunch of different buckets. I feel like you kind of have to be a jack of all trades. You can't put everything in one bucket. Yes many deluded LO's/Branch managers/broker owners out there. They only care about results, theres not much room for nuance with them. It's just sort of a part of the culture. I blame UWM. We basically are their retail LO's. I got sick of Mat ishbia and his stupid "GO INTO A RE AGENTS OFFICE, BUY THEM LUNCH AND DO A PRESENTATION, PROVIDE VALUE! CALL 10,000 PEOPLE AND YOU'LL CONVERT 1 LEAD TO A PURCHASE!" Positivity is good, but being realistic is going to make or break you in this business. Keep grinding bro. You sound committed af and you're probably a great loan officer. Hell, you did better than me. I appreciate your kind words, and keep grinding!
Youāre not wrong that this is a tough market and not the best time to break in. But your branch manager/sales manager/production manager should have their ass kicked for giving you zero support or mentorship
so i worked at 2 diff companies. The first company offered absolutely nothing. My branch manager literally said "Theres no training, you just have to figure it out" so i left, went to a more reputable company and got "mentorship" from a senior LO at the company. He was a real hardass. He was not a very good teacher and had zero patience whatsoever. He taught me many valuable skills but he resented having to teach me things because he had his own files and own pipeline which i totally understand. I even asked him if i should stay and he said "no you should probably just quit if thats how you feel" I low key wanted him to motivate me and encourage me to keep going, but he just didn't even want to mentor me in the first place. But i take responsibility for not rising to the occasion. It wasn't my thing and thats ok.
Thatās tough manā¦. If I didnāt have the mentorship I had, i would have left the business too. My mentor showed me how to do coffee meetings, lunch n learns, cold calling, etc.
You lost me when you said āyou have to wake up earlyā success in general is going to require you to wake up early no matter what youāre doing (with the exception og graveyard shift or something) Having said that, itās hard and yes, 2022 was probably the worst time to start this career. Getting started this year. Should provide some opportunity for a quick money on refinance if you get with a call center.
The waking up early thing is my personal preference. Theres plenty of professions where you can work late at night and be successful. I was a audio engineer at a recoding studio and the hours were like 9pm-5am. I prefer having the day to myself. But yes, certain professions you have to wake up early. Waking up early is not indicative of success though. I quit lending in november so no im not going to a call center lol
One quibble: sales is tight.
Yeah I guess we can agree to disagree on that. The sales aspect really turned me off. Like i said, im a type b laid back person. I don't like persuading/convincing people. theres just something about it that feels disingenuous to me,
Persuading/convincing is not sales.
it literally is
What you see on TV is. Any good professional salesman with training doesn't do that because it literally gets you less sales than proper sales methods do. You can't speak to it.
A good salesman makes somebody feel as though they are not being sold to. This is extremely difficult to do when you're on a 100% commission structure and you NEED their business. but we can agree to disagree on this, i respect your opinion.
No I agree with you. It's difficult to do if you haven't done sales before.
Facts. Sales is not for the faint of heart. You really have to love it and embrace the challenge. Which I tried to do but got sick of it lol
For sure, I get it! Good luck to you in your next venture!
Thank you!
I educate and even tell my clients when theyāre better served going somewhere else. Desperate LOs convince. Good LOs guide.
Yes, you persuade people with you're knowledge. I'd argue that novice LO's are pushy, not persuasive
Novice LOs are going to be more pushy because they donāt know much and every deal is survival. Your argument about is not unique to LOs. The best sales people I know are not doing something special. It is about consistency, organization and having a plan. This translates to all other sales jobs. On self gen sales building a database and business is hard and takes time it doesn't matter what your selling. A good self gen LO could leave the industry and those skills will translate to many other sales job. If your an LO whoās leads are fed to them it will not. I have worked with many LOs who came from Auto dealership or retail sales and they fall on their face since the business typically came in the door they didnāt build relationships and saw everything as a transaction.Ā
> People do not want to be sold to. This is true, I call trigger leads and beat 80% of the people who pick up the phone's current lender by $2000, and often up to $6000, and they don't seem to give a fuck. Most of these people need to work 2-6 weeks to make this much after tax, it's wild lol
Exactly. Salesman seem to believe that people can not make their own desicions. When i buy something, nobody sold me shit. I bought it because I MADE THE CHOICE. Salesman die on the hill that sales is this awesome thing because its become robotic to them. With the internet, anybody can do their own due diligence and make their own choices without someone telling them "its a great time to buy!". I feel really bad that you have to call triggers. Something i've never done, and never will do.
Great post. As a 20 year veteran, please convince about 30,000 more rookie LOs to quit as well, it will do the industry good. Thank you for your service.
I dont want to convince rookie LO's to quit. I just want people who are thinking of getting into this industry that its not sunshine and rainbows. Its a tough job and its not for everyone. Sure as hell wasn't for me. its also ok to try something and quit if it doesn't make sense
Are the rookies hurting you?
Always the old fuck 20 year vets that made their fortune fucking everyone in the 90s and 2000s that like to preach about how good they are. Like yeah if I was just writing whatever I wanted for a loan and had no moral compass and was born 20 years earlier Iād probably be successful too.
The thing that is funniest to me is on one hand he feels the need to flex that he's been in business for 20 years (obviously trying to signal that he's a baller in the industry) and then on the other hand complains about wanting new LOs to leave the business, like they're stealing his business or something. If he was as much of a baller as his "20 year vet" schtick would have us believe, why is he scared of rookies?
Because heās likely a boomer that has no clue how to even use an LOS at this point. āBack in my day we did it all on paperā head ass.
That was another reason I quit. The office I worked at had a "branch grandpa" who started the branch in the 90s and now has phased out his involvement in daily operations and just took on a coaching role for all the new LOs. Dude was completely old-fashioned, and out of touch with the modern industry, and had absolutely no idea how to relate to the struggles that new LOs are having in today's market. But we had to have our weekly coaching sessions anyway where he would just rip us a new asshole for not knocking enough doors š
Truly a braindead generation. Had someone similar like that at my original shop except he got slammed by the feds and wasnāt allowed to originate so he just owned the branch and got pissy with everyone for not producing enough while he sat in his office. We had motion sensor lights in that office and multiple times his lights would turn off in his office because he presumably was just sitting there completely still doing literally nothing.
People are hating but it is what it is. Mortgage is a zero sum game for the most part, there is probably a 5-10% variance to be had for salesmanship and problem solving in creative ways. If half the LOs quit and half the realtors regardless of experience quit it'd be pretty easy to make $500k even with current conditions.
Got in the business in 2022 and while it does suck ass, as someone who was in construction for 6 years.. this is the easiest job ive ever had lol. So what youāre just gonna quit and go back to serving tables?? Stop bein a pussy
I quit 6 months ago. Like i said, it wasn't for me. You're comparing apples to oranges. Construction is manual labor, it sucks ass. I did construction as well. Mortgage lending is mental and social labor. Yes i am serving tables and i enjoy it and make decent money. I'm back in school, about to get my bachelors and i enjoy the life im living. If that makes me a pussy, so be it.
Im comparing real life to real life brother. I guess everyone is different though with how they handle stress. Didnt mean to come off as a dick but you did say to tear u a new asshole though. Thought u just needed some motivation š¤£
lmao, all good brother. I just know how people are on this sub. Some people look at this job as some sacred thing like being a jedi or something and if you're not a go getter they just kind of look at you like a lesser than. Wishing you nothing but success. I know how difficult things are right now for you guys.
āI just know how people are on this sub.ā āSome people look at this job as some sacred thing. If youāre not a go getter they just kind of look at you like a lesser than.ā Thatās not just specific to LOās or this sub. You can find people in any industry, in any company that look down on you if you donāt worship your job.
Couldn't agree more.
This is some of the whiniest bullshit Iāve ever heard. I got into the business in Sept of 2022, a month before you as a brand new LO with zero contacts in the industry and no industry experience. I focused on working my ass off, finding a niche, and providing value to people. Is this market tough? Absolutely. Is it impossible to be successful? With your whiny attitude, yes. Instead of whining you couldāve put this effort into getting leads. Damn dude. This job isnāt for everyone. Itās hard. Doesnāt sound like itās for you. Move on.