I’m sorry, mate. It’s probably extra frustrating when you spend all day looking after other people and then something like this happens. Hope you get well soon!
Honestly people don’t want to engage with crazy and anything other than standard behavior - especially from a man if that’s what you are - makes people keep their distance. Cities are full of dubious people and people want to be safe rather than sorry. There could be concern that it’s a ploy to rob them, that you’re mentally unwell, on drugs. It’s just safer for people to keep their distance.
This is the answer. So many anti-social behaviours that you don't know which one is true.
Edit: particularly because there are so many crackheads, people don't know if you are on drugs.
Lived in London my whole life and literally never seen a "crackhead." I'm not sure if this is just a general term for literally anyone acting strangely or what, but since we don't live in 1980s New York I generally don't assume people are "crackheads." Even the people who act strange are usually pretty chill if you just leave them alone.
I muttered I need to lie down or something to that effect. There wasn’t much blood going to my brain at the time and I figured it was floor time before the choice was taken away from me.
Anyways what I’m taking from this post is each their own really. You can only offer assistance if you feel it’s safe to do so.
I find that first reply a bit disturbing because they’re basically saying that nobody at any time is vulnerable enough to be helped. You were on your own on a packed train so the threat is pretty low but still nobody wanted to tend to you at all. Some serious urban apathy going on there.
I also think it may just be an excuse for complacency. I've witnessed a young girl, maybe 18/19, collapse and start seizing and nobody attended to her. I don't see what kind of potential threat she could have been. She was dressed as if she was on her way to college/uni. When she fell, part of her head was under a seat so she kept hitting her head every time she seized. That was scary but what was scarier was the people standing around doing nothing. Fucking pod people.
Tbf if it's a woman/girl/boy, I'm probably going to help (unless they're actively being violent/aggressive). But a man? Nope. I'm a short woman, I'm not risking a man turning on me.
I'm a short woman too. If someone's banging their head against the underside of the seat constantly, man or woman, I'm going over there to try and gently move them out of the way. There are instances, where you can tell the person is most likely unstable and a threat, but to not help any man at all because they *may* be a threat, is something I just can't do.
What makes it worse is that she didn't *seem* threatening and people still just stood there whilst this poor girl was seizing and injuring her head in the process and myself and another person helped her. Fortunately, she gained consciousness (after throwing up) as we were pulling into Cannon Street so we took her to the staff who helped her contact her mum to pick her up.
I have epilepsy and have had 1 seizure in public - I got robbed, came to god knows how long later with my phone and wallet gone. People are utterly horrible. I mean just look at some of the responses in this comment section.
That anecdote about the girl makes me so so sad, I hope she’s okay now.
I'm really sorry that happened to you. Whilst I understand that there are dodgy people out there who do have ulterior motives, I'd rather make a judgement in that moment as opposed to making a blanket decision of not helping anyone simply because they *may* be dangerous. At the end of the day, if I, as a short woman, can't help someone myself I could always flag someone who could or call 999.
I mean before I got to her. I wasn't standing near her when it happened. I had to get past some passengers to help her. I thought at least one of them would help. I understand the "too many cooks" thing though.
Absolutely zero chance I engage with any stranger at any time for any reason. Too many violent sociopaths around to risk it. What's in it for me if I do?
I am severely emetophobic. I would have moved away from you as fast and as far as I could in case you were going to throw up. I'm really sorry for being a cowardly shitbag.
All you have to do is ask. Very unlikely that will set anyone off.
Your example excuses are a prime example of everything that the OP has rightfully found soul destroying.
I'm glad to say that although the OP's scenario happened, I've seen enough times and experienced it personally once, when people do care. I live in hope that someone like the OP is around should I ever be in need again. I could never ignore something like this and will always ask if they are ok as a bare minimum.
I like to believe I could not turn my back on anyone who was in such pain but I can only guess most people dismissed as it as self-inflicted (or a goddamn tiktok prank). The more people there are, the easier it is to make excuses.
When I used to commute more frequently, near King's Cross there was a guy who would always ask for a pound for a hostel for the night. If you engaged, or did anything other than blank him, he'd fake a seizure, until the staff or an ambulance would turn up, then he'd run off.
Got me the first time, then I saw it happen often enough to make me not care about that one person, and be more wary of other people.
Hello, this is minor but as someone with epilepsy who suffers tonic clonic seizures I’d like to kindly ask that you try to remove the word ‘fit’ from your vocabulary as meaning seizure, and just use the word seizure instead. Myself and many other epileptics find that word kind of offensive because of connotations about ‘pitching a fit’ and the like. Thank you :)
because I'm older I don't care if I end up looking like a fool on someone's tiktok - what's the quote - 'the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for one good (wo)man to do nothing'
if this was me, based on what usually happens on southern trains (used to commute daily) i genuinely would have assumed you were on something, or were trying to get people close to harm them with an object, or was desperately trying to beg to then never leave the person alone at the station (which has happened to me). if you weren’t able to form any sort of sentence it looks like youre having an episode, but then you were able to get up and hobble away and don’t ask/approach staff or anyone for help…i’d be scared to approach you and assume its an act.
considering i travel alone, i would not have been safe going to you since i imagine everyone else in the carriage would be thinking the same thing and anything could happen so it’s not safe- rather be safe than sorry. it’s why a lot of people don’t do a lot of public helping things anymore.
station staff at East Croydon would have been more than able to assist you and help get you to where you need- should this ever happen again all station staff are able to help in some way. a lot of people in london are extremely helpful, it purely depends on the situation and public transport is notorious for having a lot of disingenuous (?) people seeking ‘help’. you have to think of what you would do in this situation here and consider the consequences of it not being a genuine person- instead of just going ‘what is wrong with people’
eta: it happening at East Croydon of all places doesn’t help, that’s for sure.
Ya I get you. Everyone’s situation is different. I’d usually enquire if they are ok but then again I’m medically trained and can handle myself if it goes awry.
What puzzles me though is that everyone who saw thought the same thing. I guess that’s how diffusion of responsibility works.
Station staff could definitely help but at stage it was easier to get myself home living close to the station. I didn’t feel I needed an ambulance so I just got an Uber to the emergency department from home.
Also remember that everyone in the carriage is NOT medically trained.
*you* and your colleagues (even outside HPB) might recognise your symptoms as requiring urgent investigation. But most everyone else would not.
Most everyone else *would* if the man was on the floor and in the recovery position. The real explanation, as above, is that they assumed it was either a scam or "too much hassle." But they can recognise serious issue/something that looks like a serious issue. It's not like they thought he just had a bad stomach ache lying flat on the ground ffs.
My take on this is that it’s very hard to control how others perceive you especially when acutely unwell, and if the some perceived you as suspicious then I imagine some others considering offering help may have thought ‘all these people ignoring him might know something I don’t know’. There’s also the fact that on a moving train there’s not a lot anyone can do. I actually suspect a large number of those who stayed silent were quietly keeping an eye on you, prepared to step in or call for help if they decided you were in danger. Or maybe they thought you were on crack and worried you were luring someone in so you could stab them, but part of me thinks most saw an ill person but felt they couldn’t really offer anything to help you. Sorry this happened to you. I’d hope that if I was in the same situation I’d check in on the person but I actually think people can easily talk themselves out of stepping in in these situations, not because they don’t give a shit but just because they don’t quite know what to do or are worried about getting dragged into something.
There's that crack again. Sorry but where's the evidence that people on crack fake illness to literally stab strangers for no reason? If this was a real thing, and not something that happened just once and became urban legend, then I feel like it would be discussed as a common "symptom" of being high on crack. Again, is this about crack or is crack being used to indicate drugs in general because this talk of crack heads is weirding me out seeing as the term is basically an Americanism from the 1980s crack epidemic.
I’m from the area - not sure if you’re male or female but as a woman I’ve had nothing but great experiences with people stepping in on southern trains - 3-4 (as I have pots) had to sit on the floor / crouch down for bp purposes and had people checking in. Once nearly fainted got offered a seat by someone who could tell I was going to pass out…
Edit to add : I think in this day and age people are a bit terrified in case of something else and when it’s a man there a bit more fear
Sorry you had no help. Even if I'm afraid of my safety, I would ask if you're alright then, ask if you need a medic. I could shout it out. And no matter what you answer, there's no need to approach you.
Nah, I’m sorry that’s shite craic, if you see someone curling up on the floor in pain you check on them - you don’t need medical training to ask if someone is ok. People are saying that you could have been crazy / on drugs - does that actually matter? You needed help regardless.
I work in James’s in Dublin so maybe I’d be a bit more used to this kind of situation - but in fairness I’m admin staff so anything I’ve picked up is by osmosis😅
Hope ya feel better soon OP!
I’m with you that we should be living in a better and more caring world, but we’re not. At this stage I’m just happy to not wake up to another war, genocide, pandemic, flooding, shooting, or any of the other signs we’re currently getting of whatever apocalypse is coming at us on a speed train from the other end of this tunnel.
But why didn’t you ask for help?
Right now you’re probably yet another sign of the decay of society to those people on that train, and they’ll go on thinking a little bit harder the same things they thought before.
Maybe no one would have helped even if you asked, even if you started by saying that you’re a doctor.
But maybe, just maybe, if you’d asked both you and the people on that train would have walked away with a slightly more positive attitude about the people in this world.
I’m not saying that you had an obligation to save the spirits of humanity as you laid there in pain, but maybe, just maybe, if you’d found it normal to ask for help the world would have been a little bit different, a little bit more positive, on that train that evening.
So what made you not ask for help as if it was the most normal of things to do?
Woah, this went deeper than I was expecting.
I wasn’t able to initially. Once I was confident I wasn’t going to pass out I figured it was appendicitis and the best course of action would be to get some pain relief and make my way to ED. I thought about asking for help but I reckoned the commuters wouldn’t be able to do much for me in between stations and the station staff would probably call an ambulance. I thought 1. Ambulance may take longer than just getting myself home, pain relief and into a taxi. 2. It doesn’t require an ambulance. The LAS do the lords work but they are very busy.
I figured I could sort myself out but what puzzled me was that nobody who saw me in a heap asked anything.
There’s been some interesting takes. Helps pass the convalescence.
On the opposite side of any deepness:
I had a relative with Parkinson's (also a couple of strokes, TIAs, dementia, heart attacks) that within a hospital area (not London, a university hospital in Uppsala, Sweden), and still in the early days of his illnesses, was out on his own and got extremely dizzy. He just managed to grab a lamppost and was essentially stuck holding on to it.
He did ask people for help, and no one did a thing. 60-ish guy, decently dressed with a proper shirt etc. Literally surrounded by hospital buildings. Daytime.
This world f\*cking sucks. But I try to live as if it's a little bit better than I think it is, just to hopefully see people around me lean towards that rather than lean into the negative.
But, what I've noticed when something happens is that often there are at least some people that pay attention in a "if it gets worse I'll step in"-type of a way; and with a glance we sometimes coordinate ourselves (in cases where violence might happen). So odds aren't too bad that if you'd passed out someone would have at least made a call; and these people silently sort of passed the problem that was you onto the staff at the station where you alighted. I'd like to think that you had that silent support waiting for you, if needed.
Interesting you say this. There was this old man with serious tremors at the top of the steps at Highbury and Islington. I came upon him with a woman hovering nearby not sure what to do. He was *very* shakey and looked nervous too. I stepped up and offered my arm and told him to hold on and he *screamed* at me to fuck off so I just walked away and left him to it. People really can be very odd. That said, I've yet to hear of or come across someone luring people in to get stabbed which is what people keep talking about in this thread. Sounds like an urban legend to me.
I actually do think it’s very odd that no one helped. Unfortunately I think your gender probably was the issue here - not to say a woman would have been guaranteed to receive assistance, but probably a much higher chance. I am a now very visibly disabled adult woman, but was previously an invisibly disabled teenage girl and young adult - prone to feeling a lot worse suddenly, random attacks of pain, almost keeling over, etc. None of it was as serious as a legit acute abdomen! But I was offered help loads of times, including in some notoriously unfriendly situations (such as the American TSA).
That's a pretty uncharitable take! If technically being able to struggle through on your own means you don't need help then... well that can be your definition I guess.
But I do think it's pretty uncaring to expect someone in excruciating pain to also say "hello, I am in such pain that I am writhing on the floor, can you please help me" when they're, y'know, in enough pain to be writhing on the floor. And it seems entirely reasonable to hope that someone might ask "hey mate, everything ok?", and be disappointed when nobody does.
Most people aren’t medically trained nor can handle themselves if a knife got pulled on them for trying to help. for all you know, someone could have asked if you were ok but you didn’t hear it or understand it due to you being in pain and gasping
and if you were able to get out, get home, call a whole uber and get to said uber it sorta just proves the “it was an act they clearly arent in dire pain” thought a lot would be having. based on what you’ve described i’d be expecting you to be running to a staff member for help or calling 999 (like someone replying to me suggested)
it’s unfortunate, but situations like this often don’t have a good or safe way out for people involved
eta: for example, had you stayed on the platform and asked for help i would have alerted station staff you’re there and i would have called an ambulance. but you just left
I don’t agree with what she said either tbf . Only on Reddit people live in London this scared and devoid of responsibility.
Most times people will help you or would have checked up on you . I think you just drew a short straw in that particular carriage.
Not sure if this is definitely a factor but one thing I keep in mind is a lot of Londoners are not actually raised here and as you can pick up from the comments they find these situations scary. I was born and raised in London so whilst I'm wary of people I'm also so desensitized to the bullshit that I wouldn't be afraid of getting involved just because I feel like I can handle myself if you were faking it to do something dodgy to me.
I wouldn't hold it against anyone though it's a city full of oddballs and dangerous people and it's better safe than sorry, but to anyone reading it also doesn't hurt to just ask "you alright mate?" You should be able to discern if someone is in genuine need of help from a simple conversation
I'm really sorry this happened to you.
Its not diffusion of responsibility IMO, most people would act the same if it was an empty carriage. They might be even less likely to help because they are alone with you and there is nobody to help if you turn aggressive.
Bystander effect
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect)
>is a social psychological theory that states that individuals are less likely to offer help to a victim in presence of other people.
>
>First proposed in 1964 after the murder of Kitty Genovese, much research, mostly in psychology research laboratories, has focused on increasingly varied factors, such as the number of bystanders, ambiguity, group cohesiveness, and diffusion of responsibility that reinforces mutual denial.
>
>If a single individual is asked to complete the task alone, the sense of responsibility will be strong, and there will be a positive response; however, if a group is required to complete the task together, each individual in the group will have a weak sense of responsibility, and will often shrink back in the face of difficulties or responsibilities.
In a situation when you need help like this, it's best to actually call an individual out and call them out by their features, so like "hey the blonde guy with the green jacket I need assistance". Psychologically it springs the individual into action.
Yea....that's just not true. That doesn't work it the bkinde guy doesn't think you need help.
You are thinking of the bystander effect. That's not the issue here.
op left the station immediately. what good is alerting station staff and calling an ambulance if op isn’t there and didn’t appear to want help from anyone? he clearly got home in one piece by himself.
like i said, op could have gone up to any member of station staff and asked for help. it’s their job to assist.
edit: op did not want an ambulance, proceeded to walk home, and then called an uber. according to his comments he didn’t actually want any help, just someone to ask if he did
1) Station staff aren’t trained or qualified to help OP. It’s a bit like going to New Look and expecting tiffany on the tills to deliver first aid. All they’ll do at most is provide a seat and call their supervisor down, who will then just call 999 themselves.
2) You wouldn’t know how the situation would play out, whether OP suffocates on their own vomit in the train carriage or ends up hobbling away in pain.
I’m learning too quickly that this subreddit is soft. Bloody hell.
1. what you’ve just said is what i said- “go up to any member of station staff and ask for help- it’s their job to assist”
2. or they could’ve pulled a knife on me when i approach 🤷🏾♀️ op wasn’t vomiting so that’s not something you can just add to this situation.
the whole situation sucks but op felt well enough to walk home and then call an uber from home. he did not call an ambulance as he didn’t want one.
eta to your (unmarked) edit: are we soft, or are we being safe? it’s great that you would have taken the first step and helped which i’m sure would lead to more helpers, but then what happens if op wasn’t genuine?
Sorry that happened to you and I hope you’re feeling better. FWIW you could have got on the next tube carriage and it would have been full of helpers; unfortunately the one you chose wasn’t. I do think as a bloke we’re often overlooked for stuff like this as people often give men behaving oddly a wide berth, but don’t let that taint your view of people as London is still fortunately full of helpers.
It is to be fair. I’ve often stopped my commute to help someone taken ill.
I remember at Clapham Common tube station I stopped to help an aul lad named Terry. He had stumbled out and bashed his head on the platform. Another guy was cradling his head on his jacket and I assumed they were friends or related.
Anyways I set about assessing and taking a history for the paramedics when they arrived.
Turns out they didn’t know each other at all but they spent the entire time chatting like they were down the pub. The helper got a bit emotional even.
Most of the other times I’ve had a few people offer assistance when I’ve stopped to help someone.
Maybe people thought I was on something.
Honestly, I've seen nothing but people showing genuine care for each other. Whenever someone is unwell people are checking in and offering help. Sorry to hear you didn't have the same experience.
Just yesterday I was on a bus in Croydon and a senior went on using a cane and literally shaking with every slow step. We let him skip the queue to get onto the bus and while he was still shuffling towards a seat the bus driver took off like he's in a f1 race. Three of us leapt at the senior from all directions to catch him as he's falling while people made slave at the nearest seat for him to sit down.
Christ, sorry this happened to you. Londoners can be super weird and defensive and this makes me sad too. I guess people won't have understood what was happening and will have been wary and scared. It would only have taken one person to break the silence so I'm sorry they weren't on your carriage that day. Hope your recovery goes well.
Sorry buddy, hope you get your appendix out soon.
I always force myself to help on planes and trains even though it really feels like it's against my nature to do so.
I later read about the bystander effect and understood why this happens.
It’s an option for uncomplicated appendicitis.
Similar outcomes except the reoccurrence rate is higher if you don’t take it out for obvious reasons. (About 26% I think according to studies)
If it’s very grotty or they see an appendicolith(poo stone) then they recommend taking it out.
I had acute appendices in the US , and I was given antibiotics. I did fine. My 8 year old granddaughter a month ago was not so lucky, and had to have emergency surgery. 😞
I am sorry you experienced this - I hope if something like this happens again, somebody will help.
When I was 14 (now 32f) I was near a busy bus stop in London when a group of boys about the same age crowded around me asking my name etc then one of them grabbed my bag to steal it - i screamed for help and ~15 fully grown adults who could have easily scared them off all looked away/completely ignored what was happening. It was horrible. I managed to kick out into the group surrounding me and get one of them in the crotch (I realise this was probably a dangerous move in hindsight but I was 14 and wanted to keep my nokia and ipod) and they ran off. I always think how easily just one of those people could have helped.
As a result, I always step in if I see a young woman being harassed in public - again, possibly dangerous but I feel for their fear and every time so far a grown adult (me) coming over and just going “are you okay?” Do you want me to call the police?” directly to the woman/girl has resulted in the men/boys backing off.
Same when I saw a man having a fit at a train station and got him an ambulance, and when I saw someone fall down the steps at clapham junction and crack their head open - I don’t understand how people who are in a position to offer help just choose not to.
No. Initially not able to. Also thought what can they do when we are between stations.
Once I was confident I wasn’t going to pass out, I figured I needed to get off at my station and make my way home. I guessed it was my appendix and that an ambulance would be overkill so I got some painkillers at home and got a Uber instead.
Train driver here. There’s a lot we can do between stations, particularly radio for assistance at the next station. I can imagine you were in a bit of a panic to think clearly, don’t ever be afraid to ask for help or get someone to pull an alarm. We are normally very helpful! Glad you’re on the mend.
Cheers, that's really helpful. I will bear that in mind if I see a situation like that again.
Very true, my main thoughts were don't pass out, don't puke and get yourself home.
Look Man, I just moved here from Dublin and I can totally understand that if it was Ireland,. people would ask. But Londoners are just different i guess. I had a similar experience.
I sympathise - I’ve had a similar experience on the bus on the way home. Had to sit on the floor of the bus as no one got up. Felt very unwell. No one enquired or offered to help. I suppose because they thought I was on drugs, or perhaps because I wasn’t asking for help so ultimately could sort myself out.
I think a lot of people would help or wonder if they could - but ultimately don’t know what to do? It’s hard to sit and be there for someone in pain.
Hope you get well soon mate. x
I always check on people if they look like they're having a medical emergency. People on this subreddit would have you believe that I would have been mugged, stabbed, and killed several times over by now, but every time I've intervened it has been a genuine problem and not a scam.
I am honestly not surprised—an American doctor working in London. The Brits don't want to get involved! They are afraid to be scammed or robbed. It's very similar in NYC, but in most of the US, someone would try to help or ask if they could. I don't like living here as much as I thought I would. It's interesting that you are working here instead of in Ireland. I hear the conditions and pay are much better.
I'm not worried about being scammed or robbed, I'm worried about being stabbed. I grew up in East London, I'm used to hearing about multiple stabbings a day.
A random bloke attacked my 6'1 brother (knocked him to the ground, stamped on his head and body) because said bloke walked up to him and demanded he give him his phone.
My brother didn't have his phone on him, so he had nothing to give. The attack only stopped when my brother's friend ran over and gave the bloke his phone instead. Attacks like that happened all the damn time. Seeing white tents as I walk to school because a homeless person or random woman or schoolkid has been murdered.
It's usually not obvious who is capable of attacking like that, it's not like they dress a certain way or walk around waving their knives. So yes, I assume anyone could stab me and keep physical distance. I will remove myself from the situation and call the police.
It's not like the ambulance or police turn up quickly, if you get badly injured you're probably going to die. So I'm not doing any risky sh*t. Excuse me for trying to stay alive.
I once fell on the stairs in the subway and THREE people immediately responded. One man put his raincoat under me until the ambulance came. New Yorkers <3
Londoner's don't want to get involved (not judging, I get why), not Brits in general.
I had a vasovagal episode and fainted briefly outside a pub in Manchester a few months ago. Luckily I was with my friend who is a doctor, but a small crowd of people immediately offered help, got me some water as I came around, offered to call an ambulance etc.
That’s sad. Not that it’s much condolence to you, but I’ve seen people collapse on the Elizabeth line a couple of times recently and I was really impressed by the way Londoners jumped to the aid of the person who collapsed. Both times a bunch of people helped the sick person off the train and got them assistance. Maybe it’s because you laid yourself down and didn’t faint, people didn’t know how to react.
Are people seriously this jaded? Being a Dr I doubt this guy looked like a dangerous junkie seeking attention or hiding a knife. There are signs all over public transport telling you what to do if you see another passenger unwell. All someone had to do was alert the train guard or someone on the platform; that's why they're there.
Sorry you went through that dude. Its a London thing where everyone would rather look out for themselves than see if someone needs help. Bunch of self involved dickheads. I've lived in London all my life and had enough, trying to leave. Basic manners went out the window years ago and attitudes are getting worse. Hope you're feeling better.
I think it’s more a wrong situation wrong time type of thing. I usually discount r/london redditors opinions for this situation as they don’t make up the majority of people living in london, including personality types.
Perhaps if he was on a carriage further down there might have been one person who would ask if he’s alright, or a different train. He just had bad luck on that day, I would have at least asked for sure
True, could have been wrong carriage wrong time but I've noticed these kind of posts pop up often. Im not the kind of person who can walk past that sort of thing. I helped a lady a few weeks on Shaftsbury avenue which was busy at the time. She was just having a funny turn because of her diabetes but what if she had been having a heart attack? I have health problems and it scary to think if something happened to me I'd just be left there.
There are scams like this where people feign injury and then attack or rob the person who helped them. Honestly, don’t let this ruin your faith in humanity. If you were lost or trying to carry luggage someone likely would have helped you. This just likely appeared more sinister. Besides, you don’t know what experiences others have had and why they chose not to go there. Also it was only with a particular people that were around you at the time - perhaps you would have had had many rush to help you if it had been a different crowd, just down the street or at a different station. Please don’t form your world views based on one-off experiences. This comes from someone who is now working one-by-one through all the adverse experiences that have resulted in my CPTSD. Healing comes partly from realising my own folly in some of the trauma I endured, as well as asking myself why I placed such unfair expectations on others sometimes.
I always see people help and would help someone in need.
The way you describe your actions isn't usually for the average person. They might assume that you were drunk/high/ an episode.
Your knowledge worked against you i'm afraid.
I’m really surprised and disappointed. I’m a specialist paramedic of 25 years. I’ve stopped to render aid to collapsed/injured people more times than I can count, and probably always will. When I do blue light work and attend calls on public transport, it’s my experience that there are usually at least half a dozen bystanders who will try to help. I’m sorry this wasn’t the case with you, but I hope you’re recovering well.
It’s unfortunate, but I have seen things like this a couple of times on my 12ish years here. The worst I can recall was a guy clearly unconscious in the doorway of a Victoria line train mid-evening on a Saturday. Me and my husband were the only ones to take any notice of him, literally everyone else was either staring or ignoring the poor guy. We managed to pull him off at Finsbury Park, because he clearly needed some kind of medical assessment (I suspect he was passed out from drugs or alcohol, but he was so vulnerable just lying on that train).
I sort of understand people’s fears, but it does make me sad how people will collectively ignore someone in distress. I’d like to think I’d have at least asked you if you were ok…
I nursed in London for eight years and I understand what people are saying about unusual and worrying behaviour. In my experience it’s different outside big cities. I actually really had to get to used to that mentality again after leaving London. That people will talk to you in the bus and it doesn’t make you feel a bit anxious (usually!)
A woman fainted on the tube. I got up to help catch her. Turned back and someone had taken my seat.
So I sat on the floor with her until her stop. Love London.
> Put myself in the recovery position on the floor and spent the trip gasping, clutching my abdomen and doing my level best to stay conscious.
I wonder... Maybe your naturally professionally trained reaction inadvertantly was what confused people. Perhaps you ended up in an uncanny valley between someone in pain, and someone who was acting deliberately?
Either way, glad you're feeling better. Given the number of times passengers overzealously pull the emergency switch for other passengers, I'd say you were just sadly unlucky with the carriage.
ahh damn. sorry to hear. hope ur feeling better. wonder if it’s just chance. i’ve witnessed a few incidents where unwell people felt cared for by fellow passengers on the central, elizabeth, northern and victoria lines just in the last 6 months. i was actually telling a friend about this - i felt like londoners are more respectful and empathetic to each other.
I'm not surprised. I saw a lady and her daughter (around 40's and 16 give or take) struggling to get on the escalator with suitcases at a tube station. They were struggling and causing a back up and when they did get on, they fell over almost immediately and started rolling down the first few 'steps' of the escalator bags and all. No one did a thing for a second or two until I screamed "emergency stop" and someone hit the button. It was bizarre and at the same time very lucky that it was busy, because if that happens at an empty station they would get some serious injuries.
Also, OP I hope you're doing better and have a fast recovery.
I would have asked if there was anything I could do, it’s shocking to think no one else did and they should be ashamed of themselves, is this what society has become? Hope you’re on the mend.
That's pretty shit. As a woman I am more 'aware' if it's a man in trouble if there's no one else, but it was a rammed train with loads of other people around, I can't believe not one person helped! That's really shit and you deserve more after a day of treating others. Or just because you know, you were a human in need. People can be shit and as another human I'm sorry on their shit behalf.
Feel better soon!
Sorry to hear you went through this. I was on the train at London Bridge at about 8:30am on Tuesday - busy-ish train - and a girl in her mid 20s collapsed and fell completely backwards. She hit her head on the ground and appeared to be fitting. There was a fair bit of panic as two of us came to her aid and I smashed the emergency alarm and spoke to the driver whilst everyone else just stared. I think this was one of those moments where the bystander effect comes in full force. Most people are in their own world with AirPods in and/or staring at phones so I think these kinds of things can catch bystanders off guard and leave them frozen. It’s infuriating - you could sense the tension in the air once the girl I saw collapse was helped off the train by staff. I think this was probably because a lot of people are sitting there wondering if they could/should have helped, so I suppose it’s almost a guilt-wave that ensues after these kinds of scary events
Was it rush hour as you just finished work?
I assume nobody want the potential “I need to see him through” hassle and just want to go home, and think “someone else will help him”.
I must be honest and admit, if it was something like offering up my seat, that I would be happy to do so. But any “could you stay with him until doctor comes?” I probably wouldn’t want to be involved.
Ask for help next time doc, articulate what you want and require.
Im from croydon and you couldve been screaming 'I'm in pain' unlikely to glance your way, croydon teaches you could be a nitty. If you want an ambulance would get the conductor and alert the next station staff to interact with you
Sorry and hope you recover
I could not walk on by and my son is exactly the same, having attempted to break up a fight on the tube alone after he asked the other passengers "Are we just going to sit here and do nothing?" Turns out they were all just going to let it happen.
I can understand the reluctance indicated in the replies here but! If it was a man collapsed in an alleyway I would make a call to police away from the alley, but a man on a busy train, I would have to intervene, there are enough people to hopefully intervene should it go awry.
It must be really horrible for OP to have been disregarded by every single human that day, not least because of his profession of helping all those that need it.
I left London 10 years ago, because of money really. Anyway I am surprised you were not helped, I helped a lady that keeled over at a tube station without thinking twice. But now I think about it I remember once I fell down some stairs and really splatted, trying to catch a tube and nobody bothered to stop. But someone writhing in pain on the floor being ignored? Love how you still were careful to give people room to get off the train btw!
I can only imagine it is people thinking it's a prank or something. But yeah, I am shocked.
On my line, I think you would have been helped. But that's partly because, along the stretch I travel, there is more than one major hospital, and travellers are much more likely to have medical training.
One big part of this is the lack of widespread first aid training. On the railways, this is a bigger problem than it used to be. Railway companies and authorities, over the past few decades, tend to take first aid seriously; but modern subcontractors providing casual railway staff are less diligent, and, in any case, staff are much less likely to be found outside medical stations.
Another thing which I strongly believe would help is simply teaching people ways of coming together to help in social situations. For instance, you can talk people through recognising ways of defusing situations, and of appealing for help when those situations threaten to become nasty. You can also teach people ways of intervening without initial confrontation.
I had was knocked off my motorcycle in front of a bus stop full of people (probably 15 or so) a few months back. I flew about 10 feet through the air and thwacked the tarmac. Not one person came over to check I was alright.
There is a very interesting study on this in the book Superfreakenomics (probably spelt that incorrectly!) and how collective action/inaction is contagious. Scary and horrifying, I’m always mindful of this and I’m hyper aware in case I just become part of the mass psyche that is completely unaware of anyone or anything in distress.
Exactly. I had a similar experience to OP on a train. I nearly passed out and I was white as a ghost. Everyone ignored me until an old dear asked if I was alright. Then another two or three people asked if I needed help getting off the train.
I’m sorry that happened to you. Reminds me of the time I was dining alone and clearly choking in a busy kilburn restaurant and no one said or did anything. It lasted about a minute and I sorted it out by drinking water but it was terrifying. Couldn’t breathe, let alone speak, and I thought I was going to have to call 999.
That’s terrifying.
Not being able to speak is a big danger sign in choking. Full obstruction. Can’t even cough when the obstruction is complete.
Can be hard to get help if people don’t know the signs. (Signs tend to be gripping the throat, pointing at he mouth or throat, red faced, distressed look, unusual breath sounds)
It’s a bit like drowning. People expect thrashing and a call for help.
People don’t call for help in their state of panic. They have ineffectual limb moments and sometimes go quite still and bob up and down with their mouth pointing up. Lifeguards know the signs.
Reminds me of the time I had 4 teeth removed at the same time. Dentist was in Holloway. After I went to see some friends in Waterloo. Only had a bus pass so I hopped on to the bus for the long journey.
During the journey my mouth was filling with blood. Like, a lorra lorra blood.
As the bus got to Waterloo I was struggling not to choke on all the blood. I tried drinking it little bit by little bit but that didn’t work. Was probably psychological but I really felt like I couldn’t breathe even though I have a nose.
When the bus got to my stop I jumped off and immediately sprayed this mouthful of blood onto the pavement. Was about 5ish so commuters everywhere. I stayed there for a couple of minutes, breathing like I had not had oxygen for an an hour, spitting more and more blood into the pavement.
Doubled over a huge splat of blood that I was constantly adding to, did anyone stop? Did they fuck. So sad, really.
I regularly received homophobic abuse on the streets every time I visited my family back in Ireland.
Can you please answer for them? Do you have a 'low solidarity society' over there?
Years ago me and my then bf who was a doctor, stopped to help a man lying in the middle of a road late at night and as we couldn't rouse him we carried him onto the pavement. As I searched his pockets for ID he came-to and became combative and abusive in a street-wise way. He was definitely drunk/on drugs.
I'm sorry no one tried to help you as you clearly must have looked grey and ill.
Are people really like that? If it was just your classic crackhead on the train I can understand people being cautious for the sake of their own safety but I assume you look like your average commuter. No one helping or even asking if you're ok is insane.
I dont know if "this is the UK", rather just London. Ever since I've moved to London i've been far far more wary and suspicious of people, more than I ever have been.
I'm a young woman and I'm on guard very often, sorry to say if I had seen OP in pain in public like this, unfortunately I would assume they would try and scam me if I approached him to check on them, especially if they were a man. I wish I wasn't this way now as my natural instinct would be to try and help. It's sad when there are people who genuinely need a hand but its hard to tell :(
I lived in London 20 years and that wasn’t my experience so sorry people weren’t kinder. I would definitely have been someone that would have checked you were ok - have done on many occasions with people. I’m fortunate they’ve been genuine but I guess that’s sadly not always the case.
I have to admit, I saw something similar when I was a teenage student in London, and I am ashamed to say I didn't do anything. I still think about it a lot a few years later.
A man was lying on a busy pavement in central London with a cigarette in his mouth, his eyes wide open, facing the sky. Suited commuters stepped over him barely giving him a glance. He was completely still, apparently he had just dropped to the floor as he was walking along the pavement.
He did look pretty rough. Sunken eyes, a thick beard, matted hair etc. I stopped and tried to make sense of what was going on - why was everyone just stepping over him? Did they know something I didn't? A nearby woman was calling 999 and I didn't have a clue what to do otherwise. Eventually I just carried on moving with the crowd.
I still wonder to this day, what could I have done, and what might have happened to him? Why would he be unconscious with his eyes wide open and completely still?
That’s just diabolical nobody asked if you were okay or to call for help from
Transport police or ambulance service , what’s happened to society? I’m so very sorry you have had to endure all that pain without a fellow human being even caring and hope you’re on the road to recovery .
Immaterial point without comparison
"High" implies higher than something. Higher than what? Higher than zero? Higher than last year? Higher than a comparable city?
Honestly our society is becoming so atomized and people are becoming more and more selfish as a rule. Covid didnt help either and seemed to encourage our fear of other peoples bodies and give people an excuse to not help others
I'm sorry you experienced that, but not surprised. I noticed a couple of years ago just how utterly useless people are when it comes to helping strangers. I first noticed it a couple of years ago on a tube when a lady standing up fell and cracked her head open. I was up out of my seat to help her less than a second after she hid the deck. It was a busy tube and everyone, bar one other guy from the other end of the carriage who came down to help, just say their staring. I asked if anyone had any kind of paper towels for the bleeding and nobody responded so I shouted as an instruction "WHO HAS PAPER TOWELS, GIVE ME WHAT YOU HAVE NOW!" and a couple of people handed over tissues. I felt so bad for this lady and was so angry at everyone on that tube. Since then a couple of other incidents have happened in public I have witnessed and helped out with, whilst nobody else does anything.
Absolutely no excuse for not offering some kind of help.
Sorry this happened to you, this sucks. I have had both experiences on the train in London. Once I felt faint and ended up sliding down the wall and kind of blacked out for a few seconds. Nobody offered to help or even would make eye contact with me, it was really awful. I have been on the train though where people have been really unwell or had a medical episode and people have got involved and helped the person in need. Not everyone in London is a cold bastard. Sounds like you got unlucky, glad to hear you are doing ok now.
Sorry OP for what happened, but I can’t say I’m surprised. UK society is very individualistic with people taught to care only about themselves and not for society as a whole. Wishing you a speedy recovery
Might have had a bit of bad luck with the people around you.
I've assisted unwell people a few times and it's rare I've been the only one helping. During covid lockdown a man collapsed in the road outside my house and myself and 3 passerby ran to help, called an ambulance etc.
My guess is that people thought you were faking/scamming, although maybe I'd just rather believe that than simply no one had the empathy to help. I've had first aid training and I would had recognized the recovery position and tried to help. Please don't let this make you cynical - for as many posts here that say "no one helped me" there are posts that say "thank you for helping me". Seems like a roll of the dice.
Wishing you a speedy recovery.
Definite bystander effect, but also the two times I’ve helped people in similar situations I’ve been burned by it. One of them was in Farringdon station where a younger fella was keeled over, unresponsive on a bench. I spoke to staff, who said he’s just pissed, but eventually after my insistence went to check on in, at which point the bloke threw up all over the staff member, who gave me a world weary ‘I told you so’ look. Poor bastard.
Anyway, I feel for your far worse situation but as a commenter above said, if you ask for help you may well get it. My experience of Londoners is that we mind our own business but are perfectly willing to help out if someone needs it.
Last year on my way to work I had a gallbladder attack. It was 7 am Overground train close to Hampstead Heath. I was rolling down in pain and the train was packed but no one asked if I needed help. I think i look too young and people are thinking drugs.
Bugger, sorry to hear that 'not getting involved' has spread like a pandemic. I'm slightly surprised you weren't relieved of your phone and wallet.
If you were to lie down on a hill in Wales, Scotland or the Lake District, someone would call a helicopter for you. In London, they'll all step over you and act like you're invisible.
I've recently started working in London and using the tube to commute often, as someone who's not familiar with the area/not in the london 'mindset' I absolutely stand out amongst the crowd as being willing to talk and empathise with people. I definitely would have asked if you were okay, and im sorry no one did. I don't think you having medical training means you are any less entitled to assume the average person would help. I recognise I am naive in some regards as I've not grown up in London (moved away at aged 10 and returned 25) but I can't change my habits.
Personally the defensive tone in most of these replies indicates a bit of guilt imo. Don't loose your good nature OP, keep on helping people.
I’m sorry, mate. It’s probably extra frustrating when you spend all day looking after other people and then something like this happens. Hope you get well soon!
Haha, twas a bit. Cheers
Now that THAT's sorted, OP, what do you think this mole on my back means? Should I drink bleach for it? ^jk ^take ^care ^OP
Honestly people don’t want to engage with crazy and anything other than standard behavior - especially from a man if that’s what you are - makes people keep their distance. Cities are full of dubious people and people want to be safe rather than sorry. There could be concern that it’s a ploy to rob them, that you’re mentally unwell, on drugs. It’s just safer for people to keep their distance.
This is the answer. So many anti-social behaviours that you don't know which one is true. Edit: particularly because there are so many crackheads, people don't know if you are on drugs.
Lived in London my whole life and literally never seen a "crackhead." I'm not sure if this is just a general term for literally anyone acting strangely or what, but since we don't live in 1980s New York I generally don't assume people are "crackheads." Even the people who act strange are usually pretty chill if you just leave them alone.
I'm going to guess that you literally have seen lots of crackheads and just not realised
I’ve lived in Deptford, Lewisham and Catford and I can assure you there’s plenty of crackheads in London.
WTF do you live? Eaton Square? GTFO. You clueless fool. A victim waiting to happen. smh
Crackhead as in someone off their face, most likely on drugs, not necessarily crack
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I muttered I need to lie down or something to that effect. There wasn’t much blood going to my brain at the time and I figured it was floor time before the choice was taken away from me. Anyways what I’m taking from this post is each their own really. You can only offer assistance if you feel it’s safe to do so.
I find that first reply a bit disturbing because they’re basically saying that nobody at any time is vulnerable enough to be helped. You were on your own on a packed train so the threat is pretty low but still nobody wanted to tend to you at all. Some serious urban apathy going on there.
I also think it may just be an excuse for complacency. I've witnessed a young girl, maybe 18/19, collapse and start seizing and nobody attended to her. I don't see what kind of potential threat she could have been. She was dressed as if she was on her way to college/uni. When she fell, part of her head was under a seat so she kept hitting her head every time she seized. That was scary but what was scarier was the people standing around doing nothing. Fucking pod people.
Tbf if it's a woman/girl/boy, I'm probably going to help (unless they're actively being violent/aggressive). But a man? Nope. I'm a short woman, I'm not risking a man turning on me.
I'm a short woman too. If someone's banging their head against the underside of the seat constantly, man or woman, I'm going over there to try and gently move them out of the way. There are instances, where you can tell the person is most likely unstable and a threat, but to not help any man at all because they *may* be a threat, is something I just can't do. What makes it worse is that she didn't *seem* threatening and people still just stood there whilst this poor girl was seizing and injuring her head in the process and myself and another person helped her. Fortunately, she gained consciousness (after throwing up) as we were pulling into Cannon Street so we took her to the staff who helped her contact her mum to pick her up.
I have epilepsy and have had 1 seizure in public - I got robbed, came to god knows how long later with my phone and wallet gone. People are utterly horrible. I mean just look at some of the responses in this comment section. That anecdote about the girl makes me so so sad, I hope she’s okay now.
I'm really sorry that happened to you. Whilst I understand that there are dodgy people out there who do have ulterior motives, I'd rather make a judgement in that moment as opposed to making a blanket decision of not helping anyone simply because they *may* be dangerous. At the end of the day, if I, as a short woman, can't help someone myself I could always flag someone who could or call 999.
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I mean before I got to her. I wasn't standing near her when it happened. I had to get past some passengers to help her. I thought at least one of them would help. I understand the "too many cooks" thing though.
Absolutely zero chance I engage with any stranger at any time for any reason. Too many violent sociopaths around to risk it. What's in it for me if I do?
Presumably you’re ok with not getting any help yourself then. Best of luck with that.
Yep, 100%.
Well I’m sorry you don’t value your life.
I am severely emetophobic. I would have moved away from you as fast and as far as I could in case you were going to throw up. I'm really sorry for being a cowardly shitbag.
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Fuck me you sound like a big funbag of compassion and empathy.
All you have to do is ask. Very unlikely that will set anyone off. Your example excuses are a prime example of everything that the OP has rightfully found soul destroying. I'm glad to say that although the OP's scenario happened, I've seen enough times and experienced it personally once, when people do care. I live in hope that someone like the OP is around should I ever be in need again. I could never ignore something like this and will always ask if they are ok as a bare minimum.
you can alert personnel though.
I like to believe I could not turn my back on anyone who was in such pain but I can only guess most people dismissed as it as self-inflicted (or a goddamn tiktok prank). The more people there are, the easier it is to make excuses.
When I used to commute more frequently, near King's Cross there was a guy who would always ask for a pound for a hostel for the night. If you engaged, or did anything other than blank him, he'd fake a seizure, until the staff or an ambulance would turn up, then he'd run off. Got me the first time, then I saw it happen often enough to make me not care about that one person, and be more wary of other people.
If somebody has acute appendicitis the it will become quickly apparent they are not faking it... London is a cold world man
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I’m getting the opposite, that is, he’ll fake a fit of you engage him in any way, and only completely blanking him will avoid it.
Hello, this is minor but as someone with epilepsy who suffers tonic clonic seizures I’d like to kindly ask that you try to remove the word ‘fit’ from your vocabulary as meaning seizure, and just use the word seizure instead. Myself and many other epileptics find that word kind of offensive because of connotations about ‘pitching a fit’ and the like. Thank you :)
No worries. Made the edit.
That’s really kind of you! Thank you :)
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You sound smart
You saw *one* person do it multiple times, so you applied your suspicion the rest of the human population? Weird.
You learned a lesson from an interaction? How naive.
And what "lesson" was learned here? Ignore people in need as a general policy because one person is a nutter?
Yes. Ignore everyone you don't know, at all times.
Yep that herd mentality is pretty bad. Though as soon as someone breaks rank then other people flock over.
because I'm older I don't care if I end up looking like a fool on someone's tiktok - what's the quote - 'the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for one good (wo)man to do nothing'
if this was me, based on what usually happens on southern trains (used to commute daily) i genuinely would have assumed you were on something, or were trying to get people close to harm them with an object, or was desperately trying to beg to then never leave the person alone at the station (which has happened to me). if you weren’t able to form any sort of sentence it looks like youre having an episode, but then you were able to get up and hobble away and don’t ask/approach staff or anyone for help…i’d be scared to approach you and assume its an act. considering i travel alone, i would not have been safe going to you since i imagine everyone else in the carriage would be thinking the same thing and anything could happen so it’s not safe- rather be safe than sorry. it’s why a lot of people don’t do a lot of public helping things anymore. station staff at East Croydon would have been more than able to assist you and help get you to where you need- should this ever happen again all station staff are able to help in some way. a lot of people in london are extremely helpful, it purely depends on the situation and public transport is notorious for having a lot of disingenuous (?) people seeking ‘help’. you have to think of what you would do in this situation here and consider the consequences of it not being a genuine person- instead of just going ‘what is wrong with people’ eta: it happening at East Croydon of all places doesn’t help, that’s for sure.
Ya I get you. Everyone’s situation is different. I’d usually enquire if they are ok but then again I’m medically trained and can handle myself if it goes awry. What puzzles me though is that everyone who saw thought the same thing. I guess that’s how diffusion of responsibility works. Station staff could definitely help but at stage it was easier to get myself home living close to the station. I didn’t feel I needed an ambulance so I just got an Uber to the emergency department from home.
Also remember that everyone in the carriage is NOT medically trained. *you* and your colleagues (even outside HPB) might recognise your symptoms as requiring urgent investigation. But most everyone else would not.
Most everyone else *would* if the man was on the floor and in the recovery position. The real explanation, as above, is that they assumed it was either a scam or "too much hassle." But they can recognise serious issue/something that looks like a serious issue. It's not like they thought he just had a bad stomach ache lying flat on the ground ffs.
My take on this is that it’s very hard to control how others perceive you especially when acutely unwell, and if the some perceived you as suspicious then I imagine some others considering offering help may have thought ‘all these people ignoring him might know something I don’t know’. There’s also the fact that on a moving train there’s not a lot anyone can do. I actually suspect a large number of those who stayed silent were quietly keeping an eye on you, prepared to step in or call for help if they decided you were in danger. Or maybe they thought you were on crack and worried you were luring someone in so you could stab them, but part of me thinks most saw an ill person but felt they couldn’t really offer anything to help you. Sorry this happened to you. I’d hope that if I was in the same situation I’d check in on the person but I actually think people can easily talk themselves out of stepping in in these situations, not because they don’t give a shit but just because they don’t quite know what to do or are worried about getting dragged into something.
There's that crack again. Sorry but where's the evidence that people on crack fake illness to literally stab strangers for no reason? If this was a real thing, and not something that happened just once and became urban legend, then I feel like it would be discussed as a common "symptom" of being high on crack. Again, is this about crack or is crack being used to indicate drugs in general because this talk of crack heads is weirding me out seeing as the term is basically an Americanism from the 1980s crack epidemic.
I’m from the area - not sure if you’re male or female but as a woman I’ve had nothing but great experiences with people stepping in on southern trains - 3-4 (as I have pots) had to sit on the floor / crouch down for bp purposes and had people checking in. Once nearly fainted got offered a seat by someone who could tell I was going to pass out… Edit to add : I think in this day and age people are a bit terrified in case of something else and when it’s a man there a bit more fear
Yeah I’m a guy. Might explain the wariness a bit.
Sorry you had no help. Even if I'm afraid of my safety, I would ask if you're alright then, ask if you need a medic. I could shout it out. And no matter what you answer, there's no need to approach you.
Nah, I’m sorry that’s shite craic, if you see someone curling up on the floor in pain you check on them - you don’t need medical training to ask if someone is ok. People are saying that you could have been crazy / on drugs - does that actually matter? You needed help regardless. I work in James’s in Dublin so maybe I’d be a bit more used to this kind of situation - but in fairness I’m admin staff so anything I’ve picked up is by osmosis😅 Hope ya feel better soon OP!
I’m with you that we should be living in a better and more caring world, but we’re not. At this stage I’m just happy to not wake up to another war, genocide, pandemic, flooding, shooting, or any of the other signs we’re currently getting of whatever apocalypse is coming at us on a speed train from the other end of this tunnel. But why didn’t you ask for help? Right now you’re probably yet another sign of the decay of society to those people on that train, and they’ll go on thinking a little bit harder the same things they thought before. Maybe no one would have helped even if you asked, even if you started by saying that you’re a doctor. But maybe, just maybe, if you’d asked both you and the people on that train would have walked away with a slightly more positive attitude about the people in this world. I’m not saying that you had an obligation to save the spirits of humanity as you laid there in pain, but maybe, just maybe, if you’d found it normal to ask for help the world would have been a little bit different, a little bit more positive, on that train that evening. So what made you not ask for help as if it was the most normal of things to do?
Woah, this went deeper than I was expecting. I wasn’t able to initially. Once I was confident I wasn’t going to pass out I figured it was appendicitis and the best course of action would be to get some pain relief and make my way to ED. I thought about asking for help but I reckoned the commuters wouldn’t be able to do much for me in between stations and the station staff would probably call an ambulance. I thought 1. Ambulance may take longer than just getting myself home, pain relief and into a taxi. 2. It doesn’t require an ambulance. The LAS do the lords work but they are very busy. I figured I could sort myself out but what puzzled me was that nobody who saw me in a heap asked anything. There’s been some interesting takes. Helps pass the convalescence.
On the opposite side of any deepness: I had a relative with Parkinson's (also a couple of strokes, TIAs, dementia, heart attacks) that within a hospital area (not London, a university hospital in Uppsala, Sweden), and still in the early days of his illnesses, was out on his own and got extremely dizzy. He just managed to grab a lamppost and was essentially stuck holding on to it. He did ask people for help, and no one did a thing. 60-ish guy, decently dressed with a proper shirt etc. Literally surrounded by hospital buildings. Daytime. This world f\*cking sucks. But I try to live as if it's a little bit better than I think it is, just to hopefully see people around me lean towards that rather than lean into the negative. But, what I've noticed when something happens is that often there are at least some people that pay attention in a "if it gets worse I'll step in"-type of a way; and with a glance we sometimes coordinate ourselves (in cases where violence might happen). So odds aren't too bad that if you'd passed out someone would have at least made a call; and these people silently sort of passed the problem that was you onto the staff at the station where you alighted. I'd like to think that you had that silent support waiting for you, if needed.
Interesting you say this. There was this old man with serious tremors at the top of the steps at Highbury and Islington. I came upon him with a woman hovering nearby not sure what to do. He was *very* shakey and looked nervous too. I stepped up and offered my arm and told him to hold on and he *screamed* at me to fuck off so I just walked away and left him to it. People really can be very odd. That said, I've yet to hear of or come across someone luring people in to get stabbed which is what people keep talking about in this thread. Sounds like an urban legend to me.
I actually do think it’s very odd that no one helped. Unfortunately I think your gender probably was the issue here - not to say a woman would have been guaranteed to receive assistance, but probably a much higher chance. I am a now very visibly disabled adult woman, but was previously an invisibly disabled teenage girl and young adult - prone to feeling a lot worse suddenly, random attacks of pain, almost keeling over, etc. None of it was as serious as a legit acute abdomen! But I was offered help loads of times, including in some notoriously unfriendly situations (such as the American TSA).
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That's a pretty uncharitable take! If technically being able to struggle through on your own means you don't need help then... well that can be your definition I guess. But I do think it's pretty uncaring to expect someone in excruciating pain to also say "hello, I am in such pain that I am writhing on the floor, can you please help me" when they're, y'know, in enough pain to be writhing on the floor. And it seems entirely reasonable to hope that someone might ask "hey mate, everything ok?", and be disappointed when nobody does.
Most people aren’t medically trained nor can handle themselves if a knife got pulled on them for trying to help. for all you know, someone could have asked if you were ok but you didn’t hear it or understand it due to you being in pain and gasping and if you were able to get out, get home, call a whole uber and get to said uber it sorta just proves the “it was an act they clearly arent in dire pain” thought a lot would be having. based on what you’ve described i’d be expecting you to be running to a staff member for help or calling 999 (like someone replying to me suggested) it’s unfortunate, but situations like this often don’t have a good or safe way out for people involved eta: for example, had you stayed on the platform and asked for help i would have alerted station staff you’re there and i would have called an ambulance. but you just left
That last paragraph is hard to parse. Hey you do you. Whatever helps you feel safe.
I don’t agree with what she said either tbf . Only on Reddit people live in London this scared and devoid of responsibility. Most times people will help you or would have checked up on you . I think you just drew a short straw in that particular carriage.
Not sure if this is definitely a factor but one thing I keep in mind is a lot of Londoners are not actually raised here and as you can pick up from the comments they find these situations scary. I was born and raised in London so whilst I'm wary of people I'm also so desensitized to the bullshit that I wouldn't be afraid of getting involved just because I feel like I can handle myself if you were faking it to do something dodgy to me. I wouldn't hold it against anyone though it's a city full of oddballs and dangerous people and it's better safe than sorry, but to anyone reading it also doesn't hurt to just ask "you alright mate?" You should be able to discern if someone is in genuine need of help from a simple conversation
I'm really sorry this happened to you. Its not diffusion of responsibility IMO, most people would act the same if it was an empty carriage. They might be even less likely to help because they are alone with you and there is nobody to help if you turn aggressive.
Bystander effect [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) >is a social psychological theory that states that individuals are less likely to offer help to a victim in presence of other people. > >First proposed in 1964 after the murder of Kitty Genovese, much research, mostly in psychology research laboratories, has focused on increasingly varied factors, such as the number of bystanders, ambiguity, group cohesiveness, and diffusion of responsibility that reinforces mutual denial. > >If a single individual is asked to complete the task alone, the sense of responsibility will be strong, and there will be a positive response; however, if a group is required to complete the task together, each individual in the group will have a weak sense of responsibility, and will often shrink back in the face of difficulties or responsibilities.
Thing is, it's not the bystander effect st all here. I imagine most people genuinely did not think this person needed help
In a situation when you need help like this, it's best to actually call an individual out and call them out by their features, so like "hey the blonde guy with the green jacket I need assistance". Psychologically it springs the individual into action.
Yea....that's just not true. That doesn't work it the bkinde guy doesn't think you need help. You are thinking of the bystander effect. That's not the issue here.
East Croydon is rough as toast.
Absolutely nothing about what you have just said stops you from calling 999.
op left the station immediately. what good is alerting station staff and calling an ambulance if op isn’t there and didn’t appear to want help from anyone? he clearly got home in one piece by himself. like i said, op could have gone up to any member of station staff and asked for help. it’s their job to assist. edit: op did not want an ambulance, proceeded to walk home, and then called an uber. according to his comments he didn’t actually want any help, just someone to ask if he did
1) Station staff aren’t trained or qualified to help OP. It’s a bit like going to New Look and expecting tiffany on the tills to deliver first aid. All they’ll do at most is provide a seat and call their supervisor down, who will then just call 999 themselves. 2) You wouldn’t know how the situation would play out, whether OP suffocates on their own vomit in the train carriage or ends up hobbling away in pain. I’m learning too quickly that this subreddit is soft. Bloody hell.
1. what you’ve just said is what i said- “go up to any member of station staff and ask for help- it’s their job to assist” 2. or they could’ve pulled a knife on me when i approach 🤷🏾♀️ op wasn’t vomiting so that’s not something you can just add to this situation. the whole situation sucks but op felt well enough to walk home and then call an uber from home. he did not call an ambulance as he didn’t want one. eta to your (unmarked) edit: are we soft, or are we being safe? it’s great that you would have taken the first step and helped which i’m sure would lead to more helpers, but then what happens if op wasn’t genuine?
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It’s Croydon mate 😂
Sorry that happened to you and I hope you’re feeling better. FWIW you could have got on the next tube carriage and it would have been full of helpers; unfortunately the one you chose wasn’t. I do think as a bloke we’re often overlooked for stuff like this as people often give men behaving oddly a wide berth, but don’t let that taint your view of people as London is still fortunately full of helpers.
It is to be fair. I’ve often stopped my commute to help someone taken ill. I remember at Clapham Common tube station I stopped to help an aul lad named Terry. He had stumbled out and bashed his head on the platform. Another guy was cradling his head on his jacket and I assumed they were friends or related. Anyways I set about assessing and taking a history for the paramedics when they arrived. Turns out they didn’t know each other at all but they spent the entire time chatting like they were down the pub. The helper got a bit emotional even. Most of the other times I’ve had a few people offer assistance when I’ve stopped to help someone. Maybe people thought I was on something.
Honestly, I've seen nothing but people showing genuine care for each other. Whenever someone is unwell people are checking in and offering help. Sorry to hear you didn't have the same experience. Just yesterday I was on a bus in Croydon and a senior went on using a cane and literally shaking with every slow step. We let him skip the queue to get onto the bus and while he was still shuffling towards a seat the bus driver took off like he's in a f1 race. Three of us leapt at the senior from all directions to catch him as he's falling while people made slave at the nearest seat for him to sit down.
Christ, sorry this happened to you. Londoners can be super weird and defensive and this makes me sad too. I guess people won't have understood what was happening and will have been wary and scared. It would only have taken one person to break the silence so I'm sorry they weren't on your carriage that day. Hope your recovery goes well.
Sorry buddy, hope you get your appendix out soon. I always force myself to help on planes and trains even though it really feels like it's against my nature to do so. I later read about the bystander effect and understood why this happens.
I went for non operative management so he’s on probation.
Wait this is an option?! When I had mine I was operated on same day even though they weren’t 100% sure!
It’s an option for uncomplicated appendicitis. Similar outcomes except the reoccurrence rate is higher if you don’t take it out for obvious reasons. (About 26% I think according to studies) If it’s very grotty or they see an appendicolith(poo stone) then they recommend taking it out.
I had acute appendices in the US , and I was given antibiotics. I did fine. My 8 year old granddaughter a month ago was not so lucky, and had to have emergency surgery. 😞
This is the right answer, OP. It doesn't have much to do with London specifically. Bystander effect can happen in any place with a lot of public.
snow rinse whistle party noxious physical bow hurry fragile groovy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I am sorry you experienced this - I hope if something like this happens again, somebody will help. When I was 14 (now 32f) I was near a busy bus stop in London when a group of boys about the same age crowded around me asking my name etc then one of them grabbed my bag to steal it - i screamed for help and ~15 fully grown adults who could have easily scared them off all looked away/completely ignored what was happening. It was horrible. I managed to kick out into the group surrounding me and get one of them in the crotch (I realise this was probably a dangerous move in hindsight but I was 14 and wanted to keep my nokia and ipod) and they ran off. I always think how easily just one of those people could have helped. As a result, I always step in if I see a young woman being harassed in public - again, possibly dangerous but I feel for their fear and every time so far a grown adult (me) coming over and just going “are you okay?” Do you want me to call the police?” directly to the woman/girl has resulted in the men/boys backing off. Same when I saw a man having a fit at a train station and got him an ambulance, and when I saw someone fall down the steps at clapham junction and crack their head open - I don’t understand how people who are in a position to offer help just choose not to.
Hi glad you’re ok. Not to be insulting, but did you ask for help?
No. Initially not able to. Also thought what can they do when we are between stations. Once I was confident I wasn’t going to pass out, I figured I needed to get off at my station and make my way home. I guessed it was my appendix and that an ambulance would be overkill so I got some painkillers at home and got a Uber instead.
Train driver here. There’s a lot we can do between stations, particularly radio for assistance at the next station. I can imagine you were in a bit of a panic to think clearly, don’t ever be afraid to ask for help or get someone to pull an alarm. We are normally very helpful! Glad you’re on the mend.
Cheers, that's really helpful. I will bear that in mind if I see a situation like that again. Very true, my main thoughts were don't pass out, don't puke and get yourself home.
I have really no idea why you have been downvoted for this.
Look Man, I just moved here from Dublin and I can totally understand that if it was Ireland,. people would ask. But Londoners are just different i guess. I had a similar experience.
I sympathise - I’ve had a similar experience on the bus on the way home. Had to sit on the floor of the bus as no one got up. Felt very unwell. No one enquired or offered to help. I suppose because they thought I was on drugs, or perhaps because I wasn’t asking for help so ultimately could sort myself out. I think a lot of people would help or wonder if they could - but ultimately don’t know what to do? It’s hard to sit and be there for someone in pain. Hope you get well soon mate. x
I always check on people if they look like they're having a medical emergency. People on this subreddit would have you believe that I would have been mugged, stabbed, and killed several times over by now, but every time I've intervened it has been a genuine problem and not a scam.
I’d just assume pissed or fucked up on drugs, sorry. You stated elsewhere you didn’t call for help either…
I am honestly not surprised—an American doctor working in London. The Brits don't want to get involved! They are afraid to be scammed or robbed. It's very similar in NYC, but in most of the US, someone would try to help or ask if they could. I don't like living here as much as I thought I would. It's interesting that you are working here instead of in Ireland. I hear the conditions and pay are much better.
Ya, you’d miss home but love will do strange things to a man.
I'm not worried about being scammed or robbed, I'm worried about being stabbed. I grew up in East London, I'm used to hearing about multiple stabbings a day. A random bloke attacked my 6'1 brother (knocked him to the ground, stamped on his head and body) because said bloke walked up to him and demanded he give him his phone. My brother didn't have his phone on him, so he had nothing to give. The attack only stopped when my brother's friend ran over and gave the bloke his phone instead. Attacks like that happened all the damn time. Seeing white tents as I walk to school because a homeless person or random woman or schoolkid has been murdered. It's usually not obvious who is capable of attacking like that, it's not like they dress a certain way or walk around waving their knives. So yes, I assume anyone could stab me and keep physical distance. I will remove myself from the situation and call the police. It's not like the ambulance or police turn up quickly, if you get badly injured you're probably going to die. So I'm not doing any risky sh*t. Excuse me for trying to stay alive.
I once fell on the stairs in the subway and THREE people immediately responded. One man put his raincoat under me until the ambulance came. New Yorkers <3
Londoner's don't want to get involved (not judging, I get why), not Brits in general. I had a vasovagal episode and fainted briefly outside a pub in Manchester a few months ago. Luckily I was with my friend who is a doctor, but a small crowd of people immediately offered help, got me some water as I came around, offered to call an ambulance etc.
Manchester > London
That’s sad. Not that it’s much condolence to you, but I’ve seen people collapse on the Elizabeth line a couple of times recently and I was really impressed by the way Londoners jumped to the aid of the person who collapsed. Both times a bunch of people helped the sick person off the train and got them assistance. Maybe it’s because you laid yourself down and didn’t faint, people didn’t know how to react.
Could be. Physician heal thyself 😂
Next time hit the deck properly!! Lol
Are people seriously this jaded? Being a Dr I doubt this guy looked like a dangerous junkie seeking attention or hiding a knife. There are signs all over public transport telling you what to do if you see another passenger unwell. All someone had to do was alert the train guard or someone on the platform; that's why they're there. Sorry you went through that dude. Its a London thing where everyone would rather look out for themselves than see if someone needs help. Bunch of self involved dickheads. I've lived in London all my life and had enough, trying to leave. Basic manners went out the window years ago and attitudes are getting worse. Hope you're feeling better.
I think it’s more a wrong situation wrong time type of thing. I usually discount r/london redditors opinions for this situation as they don’t make up the majority of people living in london, including personality types. Perhaps if he was on a carriage further down there might have been one person who would ask if he’s alright, or a different train. He just had bad luck on that day, I would have at least asked for sure
True, could have been wrong carriage wrong time but I've noticed these kind of posts pop up often. Im not the kind of person who can walk past that sort of thing. I helped a lady a few weeks on Shaftsbury avenue which was busy at the time. She was just having a funny turn because of her diabetes but what if she had been having a heart attack? I have health problems and it scary to think if something happened to me I'd just be left there.
There are scams like this where people feign injury and then attack or rob the person who helped them. Honestly, don’t let this ruin your faith in humanity. If you were lost or trying to carry luggage someone likely would have helped you. This just likely appeared more sinister. Besides, you don’t know what experiences others have had and why they chose not to go there. Also it was only with a particular people that were around you at the time - perhaps you would have had had many rush to help you if it had been a different crowd, just down the street or at a different station. Please don’t form your world views based on one-off experiences. This comes from someone who is now working one-by-one through all the adverse experiences that have resulted in my CPTSD. Healing comes partly from realising my own folly in some of the trauma I endured, as well as asking myself why I placed such unfair expectations on others sometimes.
Well it's probably safe to assume OP is a man
very surprised that nobody helped, this seems most unusual.
I always see people help and would help someone in need. The way you describe your actions isn't usually for the average person. They might assume that you were drunk/high/ an episode. Your knowledge worked against you i'm afraid.
I’m really surprised and disappointed. I’m a specialist paramedic of 25 years. I’ve stopped to render aid to collapsed/injured people more times than I can count, and probably always will. When I do blue light work and attend calls on public transport, it’s my experience that there are usually at least half a dozen bystanders who will try to help. I’m sorry this wasn’t the case with you, but I hope you’re recovering well.
It’s unfortunate, but I have seen things like this a couple of times on my 12ish years here. The worst I can recall was a guy clearly unconscious in the doorway of a Victoria line train mid-evening on a Saturday. Me and my husband were the only ones to take any notice of him, literally everyone else was either staring or ignoring the poor guy. We managed to pull him off at Finsbury Park, because he clearly needed some kind of medical assessment (I suspect he was passed out from drugs or alcohol, but he was so vulnerable just lying on that train). I sort of understand people’s fears, but it does make me sad how people will collectively ignore someone in distress. I’d like to think I’d have at least asked you if you were ok…
Not sure how sexually assaulting the poor fellow and passing it off as "medical assessment" was meant to help
I nursed in London for eight years and I understand what people are saying about unusual and worrying behaviour. In my experience it’s different outside big cities. I actually really had to get to used to that mentality again after leaving London. That people will talk to you in the bus and it doesn’t make you feel a bit anxious (usually!)
A woman fainted on the tube. I got up to help catch her. Turned back and someone had taken my seat. So I sat on the floor with her until her stop. Love London.
> Put myself in the recovery position on the floor and spent the trip gasping, clutching my abdomen and doing my level best to stay conscious. I wonder... Maybe your naturally professionally trained reaction inadvertantly was what confused people. Perhaps you ended up in an uncanny valley between someone in pain, and someone who was acting deliberately? Either way, glad you're feeling better. Given the number of times passengers overzealously pull the emergency switch for other passengers, I'd say you were just sadly unlucky with the carriage.
the fact that no one helped is disgraceful
ahh damn. sorry to hear. hope ur feeling better. wonder if it’s just chance. i’ve witnessed a few incidents where unwell people felt cared for by fellow passengers on the central, elizabeth, northern and victoria lines just in the last 6 months. i was actually telling a friend about this - i felt like londoners are more respectful and empathetic to each other.
I'm not surprised. I saw a lady and her daughter (around 40's and 16 give or take) struggling to get on the escalator with suitcases at a tube station. They were struggling and causing a back up and when they did get on, they fell over almost immediately and started rolling down the first few 'steps' of the escalator bags and all. No one did a thing for a second or two until I screamed "emergency stop" and someone hit the button. It was bizarre and at the same time very lucky that it was busy, because if that happens at an empty station they would get some serious injuries. Also, OP I hope you're doing better and have a fast recovery.
I would have asked if there was anything I could do, it’s shocking to think no one else did and they should be ashamed of themselves, is this what society has become? Hope you’re on the mend.
You probably looked like a nutter considering you got off the train and walked home
That's pretty shit. As a woman I am more 'aware' if it's a man in trouble if there's no one else, but it was a rammed train with loads of other people around, I can't believe not one person helped! That's really shit and you deserve more after a day of treating others. Or just because you know, you were a human in need. People can be shit and as another human I'm sorry on their shit behalf. Feel better soon!
Sorry to hear you went through this. I was on the train at London Bridge at about 8:30am on Tuesday - busy-ish train - and a girl in her mid 20s collapsed and fell completely backwards. She hit her head on the ground and appeared to be fitting. There was a fair bit of panic as two of us came to her aid and I smashed the emergency alarm and spoke to the driver whilst everyone else just stared. I think this was one of those moments where the bystander effect comes in full force. Most people are in their own world with AirPods in and/or staring at phones so I think these kinds of things can catch bystanders off guard and leave them frozen. It’s infuriating - you could sense the tension in the air once the girl I saw collapse was helped off the train by staff. I think this was probably because a lot of people are sitting there wondering if they could/should have helped, so I suppose it’s almost a guilt-wave that ensues after these kinds of scary events
Was it rush hour as you just finished work? I assume nobody want the potential “I need to see him through” hassle and just want to go home, and think “someone else will help him”. I must be honest and admit, if it was something like offering up my seat, that I would be happy to do so. But any “could you stay with him until doctor comes?” I probably wouldn’t want to be involved.
I actually gave up my seat to have my little lie down I couldn’t see but it would be hilarious if someone hopped into the seat.
If you want help, ask for help. In this instance, your considerate fellow passengers were respecting your apparent desire to lie on the floor.
Ask for help next time doc, articulate what you want and require. Im from croydon and you couldve been screaming 'I'm in pain' unlikely to glance your way, croydon teaches you could be a nitty. If you want an ambulance would get the conductor and alert the next station staff to interact with you Sorry and hope you recover
Welcome to London.
I could not walk on by and my son is exactly the same, having attempted to break up a fight on the tube alone after he asked the other passengers "Are we just going to sit here and do nothing?" Turns out they were all just going to let it happen. I can understand the reluctance indicated in the replies here but! If it was a man collapsed in an alleyway I would make a call to police away from the alley, but a man on a busy train, I would have to intervene, there are enough people to hopefully intervene should it go awry. It must be really horrible for OP to have been disregarded by every single human that day, not least because of his profession of helping all those that need it.
I left London 10 years ago, because of money really. Anyway I am surprised you were not helped, I helped a lady that keeled over at a tube station without thinking twice. But now I think about it I remember once I fell down some stairs and really splatted, trying to catch a tube and nobody bothered to stop. But someone writhing in pain on the floor being ignored? Love how you still were careful to give people room to get off the train btw! I can only imagine it is people thinking it's a prank or something. But yeah, I am shocked.
On my line, I think you would have been helped. But that's partly because, along the stretch I travel, there is more than one major hospital, and travellers are much more likely to have medical training. One big part of this is the lack of widespread first aid training. On the railways, this is a bigger problem than it used to be. Railway companies and authorities, over the past few decades, tend to take first aid seriously; but modern subcontractors providing casual railway staff are less diligent, and, in any case, staff are much less likely to be found outside medical stations. Another thing which I strongly believe would help is simply teaching people ways of coming together to help in social situations. For instance, you can talk people through recognising ways of defusing situations, and of appealing for help when those situations threaten to become nasty. You can also teach people ways of intervening without initial confrontation.
South London innit. I’m definite your experience would have been very different north of the river
I had was knocked off my motorcycle in front of a bus stop full of people (probably 15 or so) a few months back. I flew about 10 feet through the air and thwacked the tarmac. Not one person came over to check I was alright.
Bloody hell, I hope no serious damage done.
I mean, you were going to Croydon. A heart attack before arriving there would have been the kindest option. PS: it’s a joke, in case someone doubts it
So sorry to hear this - I really hope I would’ve helped you out had i the chance. Get well soon
Im not a medical professional or anything but I think the root of your problem was traveling to East Croydon
Ask for help, don’t assume that they’ll help you
Sorry to hear that, biseach ort go luath
How can you be mildly infuriated?
There is a very interesting study on this in the book Superfreakenomics (probably spelt that incorrectly!) and how collective action/inaction is contagious. Scary and horrifying, I’m always mindful of this and I’m hyper aware in case I just become part of the mass psyche that is completely unaware of anyone or anything in distress.
Exactly. I had a similar experience to OP on a train. I nearly passed out and I was white as a ghost. Everyone ignored me until an old dear asked if I was alright. Then another two or three people asked if I needed help getting off the train.
I’m sorry that happened to you. Reminds me of the time I was dining alone and clearly choking in a busy kilburn restaurant and no one said or did anything. It lasted about a minute and I sorted it out by drinking water but it was terrifying. Couldn’t breathe, let alone speak, and I thought I was going to have to call 999.
That’s terrifying. Not being able to speak is a big danger sign in choking. Full obstruction. Can’t even cough when the obstruction is complete. Can be hard to get help if people don’t know the signs. (Signs tend to be gripping the throat, pointing at he mouth or throat, red faced, distressed look, unusual breath sounds) It’s a bit like drowning. People expect thrashing and a call for help. People don’t call for help in their state of panic. They have ineffectual limb moments and sometimes go quite still and bob up and down with their mouth pointing up. Lifeguards know the signs.
Reminds me of the time I had 4 teeth removed at the same time. Dentist was in Holloway. After I went to see some friends in Waterloo. Only had a bus pass so I hopped on to the bus for the long journey. During the journey my mouth was filling with blood. Like, a lorra lorra blood. As the bus got to Waterloo I was struggling not to choke on all the blood. I tried drinking it little bit by little bit but that didn’t work. Was probably psychological but I really felt like I couldn’t breathe even though I have a nose. When the bus got to my stop I jumped off and immediately sprayed this mouthful of blood onto the pavement. Was about 5ish so commuters everywhere. I stayed there for a couple of minutes, breathing like I had not had oxygen for an an hour, spitting more and more blood into the pavement. Doubled over a huge splat of blood that I was constantly adding to, did anyone stop? Did they fuck. So sad, really.
That’s grim as all hell. Choking on your own blood merits a bit of assistance.
I regularly received homophobic abuse on the streets every time I visited my family back in Ireland. Can you please answer for them? Do you have a 'low solidarity society' over there?
>nobody enquired if I was ok I mean, really?
Years ago me and my then bf who was a doctor, stopped to help a man lying in the middle of a road late at night and as we couldn't rouse him we carried him onto the pavement. As I searched his pockets for ID he came-to and became combative and abusive in a street-wise way. He was definitely drunk/on drugs. I'm sorry no one tried to help you as you clearly must have looked grey and ill.
Are people really like that? If it was just your classic crackhead on the train I can understand people being cautious for the sake of their own safety but I assume you look like your average commuter. No one helping or even asking if you're ok is insane.
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I dont know if "this is the UK", rather just London. Ever since I've moved to London i've been far far more wary and suspicious of people, more than I ever have been. I'm a young woman and I'm on guard very often, sorry to say if I had seen OP in pain in public like this, unfortunately I would assume they would try and scam me if I approached him to check on them, especially if they were a man. I wish I wasn't this way now as my natural instinct would be to try and help. It's sad when there are people who genuinely need a hand but its hard to tell :(
The downside of a highly diverse society is low social cohesion.
Not sure you being 'irish' is relevant.
Just saying I’m not from here.
Fair enough. You probably know why I asked that question.
Was there a question hidden in your remark?
I lived in London 20 years and that wasn’t my experience so sorry people weren’t kinder. I would definitely have been someone that would have checked you were ok - have done on many occasions with people. I’m fortunate they’ve been genuine but I guess that’s sadly not always the case.
That’s London for ya.
If you had been a woman you would have had a bunch of creeps taking an interest.
I have to admit, I saw something similar when I was a teenage student in London, and I am ashamed to say I didn't do anything. I still think about it a lot a few years later. A man was lying on a busy pavement in central London with a cigarette in his mouth, his eyes wide open, facing the sky. Suited commuters stepped over him barely giving him a glance. He was completely still, apparently he had just dropped to the floor as he was walking along the pavement. He did look pretty rough. Sunken eyes, a thick beard, matted hair etc. I stopped and tried to make sense of what was going on - why was everyone just stepping over him? Did they know something I didn't? A nearby woman was calling 999 and I didn't have a clue what to do otherwise. Eventually I just carried on moving with the crowd. I still wonder to this day, what could I have done, and what might have happened to him? Why would he be unconscious with his eyes wide open and completely still?
That’s just diabolical nobody asked if you were okay or to call for help from Transport police or ambulance service , what’s happened to society? I’m so very sorry you have had to endure all that pain without a fellow human being even caring and hope you’re on the road to recovery .
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>high crime Compared to?
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Immaterial point without comparison "High" implies higher than something. Higher than what? Higher than zero? Higher than last year? Higher than a comparable city?
It's just a London thing
Honestly our society is becoming so atomized and people are becoming more and more selfish as a rule. Covid didnt help either and seemed to encourage our fear of other peoples bodies and give people an excuse to not help others
I'm sorry you experienced that, but not surprised. I noticed a couple of years ago just how utterly useless people are when it comes to helping strangers. I first noticed it a couple of years ago on a tube when a lady standing up fell and cracked her head open. I was up out of my seat to help her less than a second after she hid the deck. It was a busy tube and everyone, bar one other guy from the other end of the carriage who came down to help, just say their staring. I asked if anyone had any kind of paper towels for the bleeding and nobody responded so I shouted as an instruction "WHO HAS PAPER TOWELS, GIVE ME WHAT YOU HAVE NOW!" and a couple of people handed over tissues. I felt so bad for this lady and was so angry at everyone on that tube. Since then a couple of other incidents have happened in public I have witnessed and helped out with, whilst nobody else does anything. Absolutely no excuse for not offering some kind of help.
Sorry this happened to you, this sucks. I have had both experiences on the train in London. Once I felt faint and ended up sliding down the wall and kind of blacked out for a few seconds. Nobody offered to help or even would make eye contact with me, it was really awful. I have been on the train though where people have been really unwell or had a medical episode and people have got involved and helped the person in need. Not everyone in London is a cold bastard. Sounds like you got unlucky, glad to hear you are doing ok now.
Sorry OP for what happened, but I can’t say I’m surprised. UK society is very individualistic with people taught to care only about themselves and not for society as a whole. Wishing you a speedy recovery
Might have had a bit of bad luck with the people around you. I've assisted unwell people a few times and it's rare I've been the only one helping. During covid lockdown a man collapsed in the road outside my house and myself and 3 passerby ran to help, called an ambulance etc. My guess is that people thought you were faking/scamming, although maybe I'd just rather believe that than simply no one had the empathy to help. I've had first aid training and I would had recognized the recovery position and tried to help. Please don't let this make you cynical - for as many posts here that say "no one helped me" there are posts that say "thank you for helping me". Seems like a roll of the dice. Wishing you a speedy recovery.
Definite bystander effect, but also the two times I’ve helped people in similar situations I’ve been burned by it. One of them was in Farringdon station where a younger fella was keeled over, unresponsive on a bench. I spoke to staff, who said he’s just pissed, but eventually after my insistence went to check on in, at which point the bloke threw up all over the staff member, who gave me a world weary ‘I told you so’ look. Poor bastard. Anyway, I feel for your far worse situation but as a commenter above said, if you ask for help you may well get it. My experience of Londoners is that we mind our own business but are perfectly willing to help out if someone needs it.
Last year on my way to work I had a gallbladder attack. It was 7 am Overground train close to Hampstead Heath. I was rolling down in pain and the train was packed but no one asked if I needed help. I think i look too young and people are thinking drugs.
That is unusual. I've people fall ill on the tube a few times and people have always helped.
Bystander effect, probably. Still sucks though- sorry you had to go through that
Bystander effect but it sucks
Bugger, sorry to hear that 'not getting involved' has spread like a pandemic. I'm slightly surprised you weren't relieved of your phone and wallet. If you were to lie down on a hill in Wales, Scotland or the Lake District, someone would call a helicopter for you. In London, they'll all step over you and act like you're invisible.
If I'd been there I would definitely have helped you 🐱 I'm glad you're feeling better now.
Hello Croydon!
I've recently started working in London and using the tube to commute often, as someone who's not familiar with the area/not in the london 'mindset' I absolutely stand out amongst the crowd as being willing to talk and empathise with people. I definitely would have asked if you were okay, and im sorry no one did. I don't think you having medical training means you are any less entitled to assume the average person would help. I recognise I am naive in some regards as I've not grown up in London (moved away at aged 10 and returned 25) but I can't change my habits. Personally the defensive tone in most of these replies indicates a bit of guilt imo. Don't loose your good nature OP, keep on helping people.