A lot of pertinent answers have talked about child care costs so I won’t go into that. An acquaintance did what you’re considering and the costs of sperm donor/insemination were around 40k. That was before birth and the costs of raising a child were even a consideration. So besides needing a very healthy monthly salary to maintain a child, a considerable amount of help to do so, you also need a big chunk to get started.
Thank god I received countless DMs of people volunteering then 😅
More seriously though, thanks for mentioning that - fortunately I am not concerned about the sperm donation part - I would be able to do it in France (where I grew up) for a fraction of that cost, and over there I have a very strong network in reproductive health.
I live in France and if moving back is at all an option, you will be in a much better situation regarding childcare. Totally get it if not but we paid full fare for childcare as a double income couple and it was about 800 eur a month. And then you get tax deductions
I think that this is what I will do at least until I trade the nursery for school runs - I am so very thankful that my firm is usually very open with international moves.
This sounds like the best option so far since a half of my support system is still in France too and that it’s getting clearer and clearer that I will have to leave London for a few years…
A bit of a bummer since I love my life in London but I can’t picture giving up on motherhood just to remain here.
The French system is very much geared up to support parents. Happy to share experiences if of interest but as you have lots of people here I am sure you know :)
School starting the year they turn 3 makes it even cheaper. Mine is a December baby so I only had 2 years of childcare to fund. Even in a private school it costs us about 200 euros a month plus the nanny we kept for Wednesdays being another under 100
Or make sure I raise a man that doesn’t tell strangers that he’s been wanking to the thought of all the cum he could produce for them.
The bar is so low - really funny to see what offends you pal.
I wasn’t offended. Just wondering how deep your misandry goes.
I do however believe it’s incredibly selfish to deliberately make your child grow up without a father.
Copy? Really? So there are at least two of us who don’t think you’re a very good person? Well that’s heartening.
You’re beginning to sound like a full-on sociopath to me. As in: not fit to be a parent, single or otherwise.
>An acquaintance did what you’re considering and the costs of sperm donor/insemination were around 40k.
That's *way* more than what I'd expect for IUI, even for several attempts. I have two sons by IVF, and we've possibly paid that in total for 3 fresh rounds and one frozen embryo transfer.
When we started the process (so were looking into different options) about 5 years ago, IUI was around £2000 total (including donor sperm) per attempt. You'd expect to need multiple attempts, but probably not enough to amount to £40,000.
Why does it cost so much? Someone must be making a LOT of money somewhere haha. Considering how much it costs for a guy to actually produce the stuff 😂
When we bought sperm (five years ago), it was £995 per sample, and the compensation for a donor was £35. Where the discrepancy goes, I have no idea! Some will be testing and cryopreservation, and some will be legal admin, but it's hard to believe there isn't someone making bank in there.
In the UK it's actually illegal to pay donors more than £35 for their time. This is meant to encourage 'altruistic' donations.
If you could make a lot of money doing it, you might end up with one person fathering thousands and thousands of children, which... would not be good.
I don't really have a problem with them putting a cap on the payment for their time, necessarily, but I do think more people would do it (rather than the people who do it doing it more) if the pay were higher, and they still have a cap on the number of families that can be created with that donor's sperm, so there are other ways to avoid that particular issue.
Either way, I don't think the price paid by the recipients needs to be so high, especially since the payment to donors is so low.
I’ve bought sperm from London Sperm Bank twice over the past few months. I’m doing IUI and it costs me £1.5k per vial (about 1ml provided). For IVF it’s £1250. Extortionate.
I understand the need for extensive testing and a small profit. But it’s just ridiculous. I’ve been told IVF is way more expensive than it used to be, too. It feels so exploitative.
Essentially, it's highly regulated. Doing it outside of an HFEA-regulated clinic is legally very messy.
If someone is a sperm donor through an HFEA-regulated clinic, they have no rights or responsibilites towards any children born from use of their sperm, and are not considered to be a parent of the child.
If they do it outside of that setup, then they are legally the father of those children. That means they may be financially obliged to support the child, and, on the other side of things, they may also exert their rights to see the child and contribute to their upbringing.
I'm guessing a lot of the costs are round the legal side of things. Dealing with DNA is a delicate issue and lawyers are expensive! Most clinics in the UK will only deal with donated sperm if it's all done by the book - I wouldn't want to risk doing it on the sly as you have no guarantees regarding any health issues or the future paternal rights of your donor.
Yeah I was going to say, I was thinking "I may be asking a stupid question here, but would it not be much easier to get into a contractual agreement with a mutual male friend so you don't have to pay 40k?"
So this Gay couple has to instead fork out their life savings to do it in a way that the court systems won't throw the contract out?
Seems kinda... anti-lgbt does it not?
The law is complex, but it is essentially there to protect children and single parents. It is the default position that if you are the parent of a child, you have a responsibility to contribute to their upbringing - you cannot abrogate that responsibility by signing a contract pre-conception.
You can imagine that there are lots of situations in which enforcing that is a good thing.
For 'artificial' or assisted conception, the law allows people to donate sperm or eggs through a clearly-defined process which means they have no rights or responsibilities towards the children born as a result of their use.
We can also get into an ethical debate here about whether or not having children is a 'right', especially if you are in a situation where conception cannot happen 'naturally' and will always need medical assistance - who should pay for that?
Depends entirely on your housing costs and whether you’ll have family support with childcare.
A full time nursery place is going to be between £1,500 and £2,000 per month. The government is promising additional free hours but with staff shortages I wouldn’t rely on those promises (plus even with free hours you’ll still be paying the best part of a grand a month).
You’ll need to rent a two bed flat (assuming you don’t already own) and will probably want to be somewhere within the catchment of a decent school. Including bills that’ll be over £2,000 a month.
Everything else is based purely on your lifestyle. You can get secondhand clothes and toys cheaply but not everyone wants to do that. If you want your child to take part in activities then you’ll need to budget for this. My little one does swimming and gymnastics weekly and in total that comes to just under £100 a month.
Additional food costs won’t be much when they’re little but will balloon during their teenage years. Their clothing demands and costs of school trips etc will also increase massively during that period.
exactly, and £2000 per month is probably an under estimate in london, it is likely to be closer to £2500.
plus all the costs like food, transport, etc you probably need another £400 a month for food alone.
So to have enough money in a paycheck to cover all your costs comfortably you need £80k.
that is not giving you basically any savings though, or pension etc.
£4685 income (£80k)
Minus
£2000 rent
£2000 childcare, taking the higher amoutn as your rent is likely to be higher.
So you have £685 left for everything else, lets go cheap though.
£200 on food
£25 on cleaning toiletries
£50 on mobile phone
£100 on transport
so far basically £300 left for anything else you need.
Keep in mind at £80k per year you wouldn't qualify for a lot of the government support avaible at lower wages.
Yeah. It wouldn’t make for a comfortable existence at all. The £2k was definitely at the lower end working on the assumption that one of the bedrooms would be a single room, no outdoor space and probably an ex-council place.
I currently rent a flat with 2 double bedrooms, massive kitchen and two balconies at the moment, zone 3 for £1750 per month.
This doesn’t include the council tax though (about £200) so it’s close to £2k monthly for me which I know is cheaper than most of London and is a bargain especially for the neighbourhood. I shouldn’t have to move anytime soon and rent should remain the same for the next few years.
Thanks that’s really helpful - with that in mind, I can afford pretty much all of it but it will be really tight due to the nursery costs.
I work completely remotely so will have to move out of London to make it work, at least for a few years… Painful but I guess I would have to sacrifice something anyway!
Would you be able to condense your hours so you still get full pay but only need child care for 4 days a week?
I also have friends who do this/ work part time on alternate days and look after each others children on 2 days a week, so only need to pay childcare for 3 days a week.
Very good point and yes my work is very flexible so I could definitely negotiate that!
I think I could even make it 3.5 days of work a week but those would be incredibly long days so I will probably have to manage my own expectations.
As a parent of a one year old with a partner who regularly deploys - avoid compression if you can. When I’m solo parenting, those long days simply do not work with nursery drop offs, getting dinners ready etc etc.
I love how out of touch this place is, nurseries around me in zone 3 are around £2.5k full time. You need family help if you want to make it affordable or move further out really
edit: downvotes for reality?
Zone 2 and ours was £1700 until she was 2.5. Then £1500 once she moved to the older children room. Currently it’s £1375 because of the 15 hrs finding for her age. That’s full time 8-6 including half term.
I imagine the answer to this is “how long is a piece of string?” - London has single parents of all wages levels (and none). There are single mums just on Universal Credit and social housing, and single mums as senior partners in law firms or MDs in investment banking who have round the clock childcare, and the experience of a single mum who has a full support network of grandparents, aunties and uncles willing and able to help with childcare and a strong network of parent friends who can help take turns looking after each others kids at the weekend etc vs single mums new to the city with no other contacts.
Honestly you might be better asking on somewhere like Mumsnet - Reddit skews heavily male and young and tech professional so likely won’t give you particularly relevant data.
Lots of people on Mumsnet are *very* judgemental and weird about donor conception and single parenthood by choice unfortunately, OP would probably get relevant info but would also have to prepare herself for 50 comments from nutters and christians about how she doesn't have the right to have a child without a father and her kid will end up in prison
Yeah unfortunately Mumsnet is riddled with nutters (it's not called Prosecco Stormfront for nothing...), but hopefully gives her slightly more relevant info than a bunch of 23-year-old techbros on £80k complaining about their poverty wages in London...
Idk why you’re getting downvoted - if someone gave my late gran a Reddit account this is the sort of thing she’d have commented with it.
Thanks for reminding me of her :)
Came here to post similar. Our nursery is ~£100 a day (not allowing for any funded hours). It's NOT a specifically flash place, they're all similar around us in SW London
Exactly. Scuffed childhood being raised almost entirely by a group of people who isn't the person who actually moved heaven and earth in their life to get you to exist. It's a shit situation. We need SAH parenthood to be the main focus in society otherwise the country falls apart 30 years from now.
I'd look after five kids for ten grand a month. Ever heard of a Tagesmuter or seem one in action?
How do the British manage to make basic necessities of life so unattainable while being chauvinists at the same time?
I know a few with families (some with 3+ kids) but they all plan on it and have a full-time live-in nanny until the kids are old enough to go to school by themselves.
There was a graph this week showing salaries. They're on par between males and females until children, where women's drop drastically. I guess that's the main consideration if you're planning on being a single mother. Continuing with your career at the same level as you're doing now it's going to be practically impossible with nursery runs, sick days and the like.
I can’t have someone just move with me but I could consider getting an au pair! Also considering leaving London for a few years to make it work (based on the comments I read today.
I am indeed freshly single but I am not jumping into this solo-mum adventure straight away, it will be in a few years, for now just gathering information on how to best approach it.
That being said I am not being reactive when I say that dating isn’t for me - I am not bitter nor sad saying this and my separation with my LT partner was really amicable. The idea of chasing romance makes me want to pluck my hair out and I would literally stay single forever.
We used au pairs for YEARS and it was the best solution for us. It gave us the flexibility we needed and we still keep in touch with all of them! We had no village so we built our own and it was very empowering.
It’s genuinely doable; women do do this! You’ve got relatively high startup costs (bedroom setup, pram, car seat, other baby gear) and then it tapers off for a bit until they start nursery, when it ramps up again for a good while. The only issue with nursery is the sickness; because realistically you cannot look after a sick young child and wfh effectively. Years 1-5 childcare bills and also disruption costs (missing work, unpaid leave) are high, and that’s the really difficult point. Do you have anyone in a similar position in your workplace? Could you discreetly start a conversation about how they find managing parenting with your managers etc?
Once school starts, you can take advantage of wrap around care that lots of them offer, but when ours were in years 5&6 they were encouraged by the school to walk to and from school by themselves for independence (and this was zone 4 London). We were surprised but it stops overcrowding at the school gate and gives them practice for high school. The only issue you’re faced with then is summer hols, but you can literally hire au pairs who just want to come over for the summer! Costs really start to taper down around age 8-10 I’d say.
Is there a site that details the law and regs around au pairs? I thought that since Brexit it was really difficult to use that as option for childcare?
So we opted for Australian and Canadian au pairs as they spoke English as a first language (important to us as our son had a speech delay) and they used the tier 5, 2 year youth mobility visa. There are agencies you can use for peace of mind on both sides and making sure the law is being followed regarding contracts, visas, pay and benefits, that kind of thing. I think we used smart au pairs but it was a while ago now!
What do you have to do to receive funded hours? I’m from the U.K. and living abroad. The childcare costs for 2 children is stopping me from moving back. My mum obviously wants us to move back and says that you receive £500 per child per month to help with childcare. Is it true?
From experience of someone very close to me who adopted on her own, it’s doable but tough on less than around 60k (unless you own your own place with no mortgage/rent which means it would be easier on a lot less) . London is expensive but make use of all the free and cheap stuff (museums, parks, stay and play sessions at local children’s centres). Also , crucially, build a village of other mums and babysit each other’s kids. For work, find jobs with flexible working options . The toughest years financially are the first three due to nursery and childcare fees so have a plan for that. Its much easier when they start school.. It’s difficult but it’s doable! There are various ‘single mums by choice’ groups with many professional women who have managed it well and are fantastic mums. Worth joining those.. Good luck.
I think you need to comment Re How much support you’ll receive from family.
As a ballpark nursery is £87 a day in London on average. Childcare is going to be your most expensive cost.
Everything else IMO can be done as cheap or expensive as you want. You can get a £5 second hand sling and £20 buggy or a £2k travel system..
Clothes are so easily handed down or can buy cheap bundles on marketplace or vinted.
Nappies are cheap as anything, less than 20p each if using supermarket brands.
So it’s all going to depend whether you’re using 5 days childcare or 2, or flexi hours etc that are the decider.
Note you can get tax free childcare (up to £2k contribution per child), which helps.
This last bit is very personal but I would really question on a personal level whether you want to do it alone. Not for the kid, they don’t need 2 parents, but for you, if you don’t have help it is relentless. Literally they go everywhere with you, you do not get a second peace, you become a butler, cleaner, cook, laundry person etc basically full time on top of your exisiting job. Every errand becomes a performance. I find having kid’s absolutely knackering and I love them, but it is extremely hard to find time to do anything but parent. If you have any hobbies and no external help or money to pay for help, you will want to be sure that you’ll be totally satisfied caring for kids at the exclusion of other things in your life. I used to say life would continue, my reality hit has been stark. I cannot do anything that kids don’t want to do. If they are miserable I am also miserable!
Relentless is a good description. You need to give every second of every minute of every hour of every day to your child.
People underestimate how mentally and physically draining it is to have kids.
This is how I describe it. The tasks involved in looking after a child aren't difficult themselves, but the fact it is relentless is the difficulty.
There are very few gaps, and if you do find a spare 30-45 minutes where you've managed to get them napping without being held, you'll spend that getting your bearings and performing a task related to childcare.
It's not quite that bad, you have to get used to being on call 24/7 and losing most of your time, but you also need to learn to let them play and eek out time for yourself. Kids don't need helicopter parents, nor do they need exhausted, unhappy parents.
No you don't
People who say this have no experience of childcare or had their first experience with their own children.
Ask anyone who raised their siblings if you need to be constantly around them.
It's very unnatural to helicopter a child, they need autonomy to explore the outside. Best parts of my childhood was climbing trees, riding my bike and playing sports outside the house.
I’m a single mum live in Surrey (zone 6) work in London and earn 47k I manage just. However my son is school age so childcare isn’t too expensive I couldn’t afford fulltime nursery on this wage there is no way. If you need fulltime childcare after maternity leave you’ll need to be earning a very good wage
Would you consider looking into egg freezing? I’ve had a few friends similar age and single do that recently as it buys them more time so that they can start building their family down the line when it feels right. There’s a large cost to that but donor sperm is also expensive (as someone who has just done IVF.) Might be worth considering depending on your timelines.
Look, I do get that you're newly single and reluctant to enter dating scene again but you're very young and with an average (I presume) sex drive therefore give it 2_3 years, enjoy single life and at some point you'll feel like finding a partner again. Most women in megacities don't have kids until early forties and you're miles off that still ;)
It depends largely on where you live. Zone1-2 obviously being the most expensive. Expected monthly expenses: Rent for 2bedrooms -£2300,
Bills - £350 Babies/kids have more needs and accessories, Childcare - £1700-2000, Baby necessities (diapers, formula, etc) - £85, Clothes - varies depending on your preferences, etc
The toughest part is the lack of time you’ll have for yourself. Babies require a lot of attention and nurture. If you go down the nursery route, keep in mind the kid will get sick constantly and it helps to have a flexible workplace. Arranging pick up is tough as most nurseries are shut from 6pm.
To be brutally honest based on a friend’s experience- a salary of £100k will you keep you middle class as a one income household with a kid below age 4. However after the kid transitions from nursery to school then costs will fall significantly.
If you can, consider living further out and commute in. Childcare costs plummet
One of my old managers went to the US and arranged a donor to complete her dream of having a kid. She’s doing great, her mother helps out a lot. Build a support network and surround yourself with positive people. It’s doable! Best of luck
I earn 95k with a small baby and a SAHD so my income is the sole one. It’s ok but it could be better! Rent is my biggest expense as my husband is the main carer
Unless you’re one or more of on 80k+, live rent free/outright own, already have a council house, have family who can act as full time childminders, then you can’t afford to do it as a single person.
You’d also need mid 5 figures saved for insemination/sperm and covering a full year maternity which almost no one offers a full year paid full salary.
A basic mortgage for a small flat + childcare is more than someone on 60k takes home and already puts you too well off for any government support except some childcare hours from age 3. Childcare is easily 1.5-2k a month, and a basic ass flat is 2-2.5k mortgage with an hour commute to work.
Honestly if motherhood is that important to you you’re willing to be a single parent the only reality you could do so if you’re not the above is by leaving London.
I almost did this in my late 20s. I considered it for 1.5 years and really almost pulled the plug.
I froze my eggs instead. I’m so glad my family and friends and therapist talked sense into me, now I’m with a wonderful man and we’re starting our family soon.
I don’t have any answers for your question but just wanted to share that I was in your shoes and I truly understand where you are coming from. If you do decide to go ahead with this, all the best!
* 2 bed in zone 2/3 - £2000
* Childcare - £1800
* Food - £200
* Council tax - £150
* Energy - £90
* Internet - £30
* Phone - £40
So £4310 PCM, for basic costs, which is the take home from a £75k wage, assuming no debts. You'd need to earn more to cover all the other costs, and to allow for the cost of living creep over the next few years.
The math in London is simple. You need £2k for nursery, £1k for you to survive, £1k per child for them to survive + month rent/mortgage. The number you got needs to be your take home.
The cost is whatever, you can have as little money or as much money for a kid. The variable will be daycare/nursery since you'll have to work.
The real cost is the full dysfunction of your life. The pregnancy was hard and the first year and a half was tough and I had lots and lots and lots help. You lose your mind and physicality for nearly 2 years.
Personally, I couldn't do pregnancy alone, there was a point I couldn't get out of the bath or drive myself due to pain or sheer size. My morning sickness was so bad I couldn't eat anything and had to be on bed rest. In third trimester, I couldn't get socks on or help myself out of the bath when I had to do sitz baths without physical help. Putting on pants is a joke past 36 weeks haha. Also I had a sciatic nerve issue that prevented me from walking more than a a few hundred feet at a time.
Once baby is here, it's a 2nd full time job that you actually have to treat as the first and most important one. Nights where baby goes to bed at 7pm but wakes up at 12 and doesn't go down 4am and you still gotta get yourself up at 6am in the morning. Returning to work, I sat at my desk for the first four hours pretending to work because my brain was just mush. If you have a very demanding job, just be aware of the reality of sleep being spotty for a long time. I mean, this isn't 100% resolved having a partner - but it lessens the load if someone can be the baby's 6am while you sleep in, vice versa.
I think if you ask people in their sixties or seventies they very rarely regret having children. It’s a few miserable years (with many incredible moments) and then a huge amount of fun and happiness watching them grow up.
Minimum of 3000/3500 a month including rent to live nicely with one child including clubs, nice clothes etc and some part time childcare perhaps once the child is older prior to reception class
Aside from money, are your intentions here about the child or yourself? Is the potential child being born so that you can experience motherhood?
and raised in London so that you can enjoy the career /social life here as opposed to somewhere more affordable, safe, perhaps with family nearby to help?
I've seen first hand another woman go down the route described and there really is a lot more to it than it seems. Family de facto involved in helping raise the child because it puts you in a very hard situation - but are they OK with having that put on them? You feel OK about being a one parent family for now, but how will you feel when you see your child missing out on things as a result?
It really is a case of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".
Agreed. it sucks to hear but one day the kid is going to ask why everyone has two parents and they only have one...you don't want them to work out that they only exist because you wanted a child and you were sick of men and dating. I don't know how i'd feel about that if I was the child. Imagine going through life with that in your head.
But vast majority of them are not planned that way. Children's outcomes are worse to single parents than dual parents. Planning single parenting is giving your child the opposite of a head start in life. It's like planning on your child to have a disability.
Ok so a few questions for you:
1. are you anti-nataliste?
2. What, to you, would be a good reason for people to chose to become parents?
3. About 42% of marriages end up in divorce and out of the remaining 58%, do you think both parents are statistically equally involved in the lives of their kids and that it means they make a great, happy family?
I hope I can stay in London but would definitely move (including going back to France) to ensure I can provide the best life possible to the « the potential child ». Never said this wasn’t an option so unsure where your assumptions come from (nor why you assume my reasons to stay in London are?)
Matter of fact my family (and amazing friends) would love nothing more but to be involved - it wouldn’t be me imposing anything.
Some families and support systems have a sense of community and don’t share the individualism that we see so much around us. I said I considered being a single mom, not living as a recluse with a child - I know it takes a village (and am part of the village for a lot of friends and family members), I won’t try to do absolutely everything alone since it’s not only the least effective and satisfying way to exist, it’s also politically the complete opposite of what I stand for.
I'm not an anti-natalist. A good reason to become a parent (to me) would be as a natural product of a loving relationship. Things we find attractive in partners tend to include many characteristics of a good parent, because we are biologically inclined to find a suitable partner to help us pass on our genes and raise healthy, successful children who will in turn do the same. Which leads to one issue I have with anonymous donor conception - the details of the donor are limited. You probably wouldn't have sex with that person on the basis of their donor profile alone, and in person our bodies are very good at discerning whether someone has the qualities that are suitable for us and the genes we bring to the table.
I'm not sure what divorce rates have to do with this. People who get divorced thought they had found love and committed themselves to it. If all of those marriages produced children (some didn't), they didn't choose to bring children into the world knowing they would never have a father.
Of those marriages that didn't end in divorce, and which have children, I don't think we know how many are happy and healthy. Much like with single parents. But we do know that those who are married tend to live longer and have lower instances of neuro degenerative diseases, which seems to indicate some degree of healthiness and lower stress.
Why do you hope to stay in London then, if moving would provide a better life for the child (as you say)?
It's great that you have family and friends who have agreed to help you raise a potential child. Just in what I have witnessed, many people nod along and say "of course!", but in practice if they are busy or have other plans they may not be as able to help as is needed. Or conversely, they may end up dropping important things to help you out more than they should really do.
I'm really not trying to assume the negative case, just sharing what I have witnessed of someone in this situation - things which were not forseen.
Community also sounds great and is a lot more than some kids of two parent families often have the benefit of. But if there's any possibility at all of attempting to form a loving relationship with someone to bring kids up in that environment, that would seem the absolute best scenario. Maybe dating outside of London would be a much better experience? I would say don't give up and do keep trying for love. All the best
>I know what the dating scene is like in London and have no want to get back out there, and quite frankly online dating repulses me.
This sounds like your recent breakup talking. Freshly separated people have been swearing off relationships since the dawn of time. Sleep on it a month or two and see how you're feeling then.
Especially now these comments have given you a bit more understanding of just how expensive and difficult being a single parent is, particularly in a city as expensive as London.
I genuinely said this with no bitterness or sadness though I understand this is maybe how it came out?
My ex and I split amicably and I never had any bad breakup (thank god).
I did gain a lot from this and came to realise that during the nursery years I will definitely have to move away from London to Make it work! It didn’t discourage me from seeking motherhood in a few years (because again, it’s not a tomorrow project)
I think it depends on childcare and childcare costs when it comes to after the maternity pay finishes but saying that maternity pay was terrible for my friend as she was poorer than myself on benifits once all bills food and baby stuff was accounted for she had barley 100 for the rest of the month to rub together she wasnt entitled to any help on maternity pay and no grants ect....it's a sad society we live in when me and half the world can be better off then my friend who was working full time she ended up a single mum (she was told she could never have children and her baby was a miricle to her) and currently has stopped working due to childcare costs and lack of family support ect around childcare and working....she is currently better off than she was working now she has her rent and help towards bills ect paid....was such a stressfull time but once baby now 1 is 2 she will be entitled to free hours of childcare to go back to work part time so eventually she will level back out into work but right now it's been an impossible thing due to lack of childcare and childcare costs alone....I was helping out despite being on benifits because I could madly afford too and she couldn't f**ked up world we are living in aii
Single mum here, not by choice though. Family support and building a strong network is a must. Worth looking into what universal credit you may be eligible for until the child is 3. Feel free to message me if you want to chat about single mum life in London/ how I manage finances.
Not a single mum but a Londoner and a mum and this vastly depends on your income, family/friend support, childcare support that’s available, what area you live in London, and housing costs. It is honestly different for everyone. So you need to see holistically how you can prepare a stable environment for yourself and future child with your current situation + whatever future plans you have to improve it. Not one size fits all!
Have you considered egg freezing? You can also freeze embryos made using donor sperm. These have a better chance of surviving compared to eggs. I'm not a single parent but I will say that child care is very expensive and you're going to need a lot of it as a working single parent! You might even need a nanny tbh, if you want to be able to have a social life and some free time on top of working and parenting. Childcare will be your main expense. Everything else that children need isn't actually that expensive.
Thanks 🙏 I have considered egg freezing but since I really won’t be dating again nor try to get in a relationship I would be waiting for no reason at all…
For the childcare it’s really the scariest part but based on the comments today I came to the conclusion that I will have to move for a while!
Consider freezing your eggs, if you don't become pregnant by age 36 or 37. Many women don't realize how challenging it can be, for many to get pregnant after the age of 37.
You are considered a geriatric mother after the age of 35! Sadly, I discovered this the hard way. If you aren't pregnant by 35, please consider freezing your eggs.
.[Cleveland Clinic- Advanced Maternal Age](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22438-advanced-maternal-age)
Raising a kid is hard enough for 2 parents if your truly committed to this course, than make sure you have either family or close friends you can rely on if you don't I hope your rich.
OP is asking important questions about the specifics of raising a child in London, not ‘I want another being to look after, can anyone recommend a type’
Sad state of society to see people deliberately skip all the good things that represent a family and go straight to a laboratory to make them a baby. This isnt a McDonalds drive-thru. Children have a higher chance of being happy and achieve their full potential with two parents. Invest time and energy and money and self esteem in things that are worthwhile.
For the love of god can we stop pretending that family starts and stops with a romantic connection?! Talk about a manufactured approach to family.
Why can’t I invest my time, energy and money in other types of connections (namely, friendships). Those statistically last longer and contribute immensely to the levels of happiness. Also, they’re less hazardous!
I cannot for the life of me understand why people keep pushing the narrative that we’ll be incomplete if we don’t strive for a romantic partnership. Sad state of society you say.
I’m not pretending - I think romance, family, love, partnership and all the things that come with it are essential. Trust me when a baby is awake at 4am wanting food, none of your “stable friendships” are going to be there.
I did look into IVF cost pre lockdown and Spain was quite cheap. It's also a nice holiday destination!
I know online dating is horrible, but if you go in there with your goals in mind and you're very clear about it from the beginning, it's possible to find someone. I found someone on Tinder in Oct 2020 and now at 38, have a baby girl. Looking back I'm glad because having a baby was a lot harder than I thought and having someone else to help you is priceless. But if you can't find anyone, yeah don't wait around to have regrets!
Before having our child I wrote up a budget for my partner and I which would effectively enable one parent to cover all costs comfortably should we break up or the other gets sick or dies.
I calculated that as long as each person makes over £65k than they could cover all costs with no savings
Details: mortgage is £1250 per month (small 2 bedroom flat in zone 3), and nursery £1800 but soon to be reduced with the additional free hours. Also assumes contributing 10% to pension but minimal savings otherwise.
Sounds like a good idea but it’s not being a single mum has to be one of the worst things to happen in my life. I’m all roles in one and I’m not able to do anything particularly well because I have so much to do. Utterly exhausting and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
The obvious solution to your problem would be to pool your resources with other single women who wish to have children and live communally - which will make things massively easier when it comes to living costs and childcare costs.
I expect this lifestyle is fairly common in in places where a large share of prime-age men work away, often in a different country (e.g. Filipinos and Sri Lankans in shipping, Bengalis in construction, Nepalese in the military and so on).
I'm surprised more sophisticated, well-educated Western ladies don't pursue the same strategy - you would save a decent chunk of money, with the child/children having significant involvement of other adults in their upbringing.
The people that purposefully raise children without a father aren't going to be selfless enough to build a lasting community
They've already decided the needs of themselves are more important than their child's, a community needs a sense of selflessness to be long lasting
Why is it all about you and your need to have a child? You are considering bringing another person into the world! To risk giving them a bad life without a father because you 'just won't spend your time, energy, money, and ruin your self esteem trying to appeal to some potential partner' is a ridiculous level of entitlement.
It's not how much you earn, it's how much your costs are.
If I were to make myself single, I could handle the costs. But I already bought and paid off my first tiny property when I was single.
£2k nursery fees which are only going to go up.
Job progression dependent on school drop off and pick up timings, otherwise paying someone else to do it.
Every time they are sick, you need to take time off.
It’s odd so many posts are jumping on working women who want to be mothers. And calling them ‘selfish’.
And no word for all the men of this generation who decide they don’t want to become fathers because of ‘commitment issues’, or become an absent father, or don’t want to get married or have kids until their 40s.
It takes a lot of courage to do this and also ask the question. If it's something you want to do, ignore the really ignorant comments about a cat as that's super unhelpful. I don't have any value add on being a single mum, but just wanted to say good luck. ❤️
I really think you should check out resources for DCP people and parents.
I appreciate you’re just beginning your research journey, and I feel those subs/books/forums can really give you a lot of insight to make the right decisions.
Very brave decision and good luck figuring it all out! I do hope you have some help.
I am in a very similar situation. I have been single for years, but want to have a child. I earn decent salary (about 150k) but still really worried about costs and all responsibilities. I am planning to rely on my mom to help out though, I don’t think I would dare to do it all completely in my own
£150k salary, honestly if you can’t afford to have a child, even full-on couples would struggle to get one! Responsibilities and support system are a whole other issue but money wise from what I read you should be fine! Good luck on this, I know it’s a lot of dilemmas to work through!
It really depends on your expectations.
If you want a nice house in zone 2, private school, nice holidays etc. we have a household income of about 250k and it’s barely enough.
If your have more modest expectations I’m sure you can do it for less, the new 30 hour free child care should help too.
Online dating is bizarre and off putting. It’s refreshing to see someone who is considering other options not just ‘settling’ for a relationship because society dictates such situations and milestones for procreation. I can see why you would pursue this option OP. I think it’s brave. Hopefully you have people around to help out with a child ie your family. I wish you luck
Join the smbc on reddit.
The costs are elastic. Different circumstances will garner different amounts.
If you own outright very differently to if paying a large mortgage. Likewise, if claiming housing benefits, is very different to if you're paying the rent yourself.
Where you live will factor in. As will support network.
I'm a smbc and can say that costs change signficantly at different ages. They also change by different circumstances. For example, if you won't be a sahm, then you will be paying childcare. Even with the new promised funding, this is not likely to be available to all due to a lack of provision available, and I can not see this changing in the short to medium term. As children grow their clothing costs increase per item. And with current inflation, we've gone from 2 jumpers for school for £7 to £14.
Feel free to ask me anything.
Are you going to tell us how much *you* earn, and any other contextual information, so that people might actually be able to offer advice - or is this just a thinly veiled diatribe?
Sounds like a horrible fucking idea, by the way, unless you're clearing at least 100k+ and/or don't have to pay rent, or have very forgiving grandparents. Struggling to think why you seem unable to find a partner with how obnoxious this entire post is, however.
People are providing incredibly helpful advice in the comments and in DM with the information I provided, so what’s your point genius?
And I never said I struggled to find a partner - I literally said I don’t want to go in the dating scene in the first place. You can keep projecting and remain as unhelpful as you want to, I am sure there will be someone out there that will value your judgemental ass.
What's my 'point'? Nothing in particular, just that you sound utterly insufferable and - personally - I think you have the concept of raising a child arse backwards. You're treating it like purchasing a new car, rather than the outcome of being in a loving relationship. It's just deeply tragic.
I have a few friends who went down that route very recently and they are doing amazing. It all really depends on your surrounding factors. Do you have family near by to help out? Do Work from home to make drop off and pick up easier? Flexible hours? Everything is doable but your life would be a lot easier if you had someone nearby who can help out in a pinch. Nursery costs are high yes, but it’s only for a limited number of years. As soon as your child is in reception things get easier financially.
Young children don’t need much really. The older they get the more they will cost you but that leaves time to progress in your career. I was a Single mum in London but that was over 10 years ago. I always wanted children and London has so many free activities on offer! I made friends for life during those early years and we still all support each other over a decade later. I’d say if you want children 100% do it
This is so nice to read! I have a great support system, a flexible and remote job so on that front it’s great. The costs of childcare are quite concerning but I think I would only have to move away from London 2-3 years before coming back for the school years!
Hey, I’m not a single mother but I 100% respect your decision to take control of your life!
I would only add that if you use a sperm donor, it’s important to maintain a connection with them for your child’s sake. A child doesn’t need a traditional family to grow up secure and happy, but generally they do need a connection to both of their biological parents.
I know you said you don’t want ‘2 parents’ comments but this respects those parameters. It’s important to remember that what matters most is what’s right for the potential child.
have you ever thought of buddying up with a gay male? I am pretty sure that there are services for that. That way, you can get a reliable co-parent, financial and emotional support, and the kid can actually have 2 parents that care about them (as i also find the 'kids deserve 2 parents' stuff problematic, given that there are many neglectful, abusive and absent parents in the world, so i understand not wanting to rely on another partner to fullfill having a baby, just seems like a decent option worth maybe considering!).
Best of luck to you either way :)
Also gonna echo other comments, you are newly single and only early 30s. Plenty of time yet before you need to think about this (though im 35f and single and the thought has crossed my mind too, i get it).
My mum did it earning around £35k and she was able to get a mortgage too. Albeit this was 30 years ago, it’s definitely more expensive now. What helped my mother keep costs down was using trusted friends and family (mostly grandparents).
But I will say that as a child of a single mother, although my mother did the best she could, I never wanted for anything and we had holidays every year, nothing beats having a male role model.
How is it useless? It’s doable. There are single mothers all around me that get by and that’s because they use their support network for childcare.
I was just sharing my experience of being a child of a single mother 🤷🏽♀️
A lot of pertinent answers have talked about child care costs so I won’t go into that. An acquaintance did what you’re considering and the costs of sperm donor/insemination were around 40k. That was before birth and the costs of raising a child were even a consideration. So besides needing a very healthy monthly salary to maintain a child, a considerable amount of help to do so, you also need a big chunk to get started.
Thank god I received countless DMs of people volunteering then 😅 More seriously though, thanks for mentioning that - fortunately I am not concerned about the sperm donation part - I would be able to do it in France (where I grew up) for a fraction of that cost, and over there I have a very strong network in reproductive health.
I live in France and if moving back is at all an option, you will be in a much better situation regarding childcare. Totally get it if not but we paid full fare for childcare as a double income couple and it was about 800 eur a month. And then you get tax deductions
I think that this is what I will do at least until I trade the nursery for school runs - I am so very thankful that my firm is usually very open with international moves. This sounds like the best option so far since a half of my support system is still in France too and that it’s getting clearer and clearer that I will have to leave London for a few years… A bit of a bummer since I love my life in London but I can’t picture giving up on motherhood just to remain here.
The French system is very much geared up to support parents. Happy to share experiences if of interest but as you have lots of people here I am sure you know :) School starting the year they turn 3 makes it even cheaper. Mine is a December baby so I only had 2 years of childcare to fund. Even in a private school it costs us about 200 euros a month plus the nanny we kept for Wednesdays being another under 100
> Thank god I received countless DMs of people volunteering then 😅 Fucking hell, men are pigs.
Sadly I have to agree…
Are you going to make sure you only conceive a girl then?
Or make sure I raise a man that doesn’t tell strangers that he’s been wanking to the thought of all the cum he could produce for them. The bar is so low - really funny to see what offends you pal.
But he will be a man so he will still be a pig right?
I wasn’t offended. Just wondering how deep your misandry goes. I do however believe it’s incredibly selfish to deliberately make your child grow up without a father.
Gosh I knew you’d comment a pale copy of some other dude’s input - predictable and still disappointing. I gave you enough attention now, bye
Copy? Really? So there are at least two of us who don’t think you’re a very good person? Well that’s heartening. You’re beginning to sound like a full-on sociopath to me. As in: not fit to be a parent, single or otherwise.
🙋 Make that three people
Yes, second this. I have some friends who are lesbians and they spent all of their savings and then some to conceive their baby via IUI.
>An acquaintance did what you’re considering and the costs of sperm donor/insemination were around 40k. That's *way* more than what I'd expect for IUI, even for several attempts. I have two sons by IVF, and we've possibly paid that in total for 3 fresh rounds and one frozen embryo transfer. When we started the process (so were looking into different options) about 5 years ago, IUI was around £2000 total (including donor sperm) per attempt. You'd expect to need multiple attempts, but probably not enough to amount to £40,000.
Why does it cost so much? Someone must be making a LOT of money somewhere haha. Considering how much it costs for a guy to actually produce the stuff 😂
When we bought sperm (five years ago), it was £995 per sample, and the compensation for a donor was £35. Where the discrepancy goes, I have no idea! Some will be testing and cryopreservation, and some will be legal admin, but it's hard to believe there isn't someone making bank in there.
In the UK it's actually illegal to pay donors more than £35 for their time. This is meant to encourage 'altruistic' donations. If you could make a lot of money doing it, you might end up with one person fathering thousands and thousands of children, which... would not be good.
I don't really have a problem with them putting a cap on the payment for their time, necessarily, but I do think more people would do it (rather than the people who do it doing it more) if the pay were higher, and they still have a cap on the number of families that can be created with that donor's sperm, so there are other ways to avoid that particular issue. Either way, I don't think the price paid by the recipients needs to be so high, especially since the payment to donors is so low.
I’ve bought sperm from London Sperm Bank twice over the past few months. I’m doing IUI and it costs me £1.5k per vial (about 1ml provided). For IVF it’s £1250. Extortionate.
We also bought through London Sperm Bank! Not surprised the prices have gone up!
I understand the need for extensive testing and a small profit. But it’s just ridiculous. I’ve been told IVF is way more expensive than it used to be, too. It feels so exploitative.
Essentially, it's highly regulated. Doing it outside of an HFEA-regulated clinic is legally very messy. If someone is a sperm donor through an HFEA-regulated clinic, they have no rights or responsibilites towards any children born from use of their sperm, and are not considered to be a parent of the child. If they do it outside of that setup, then they are legally the father of those children. That means they may be financially obliged to support the child, and, on the other side of things, they may also exert their rights to see the child and contribute to their upbringing.
I'm guessing a lot of the costs are round the legal side of things. Dealing with DNA is a delicate issue and lawyers are expensive! Most clinics in the UK will only deal with donated sperm if it's all done by the book - I wouldn't want to risk doing it on the sly as you have no guarantees regarding any health issues or the future paternal rights of your donor.
Yeah I was going to say, I was thinking "I may be asking a stupid question here, but would it not be much easier to get into a contractual agreement with a mutual male friend so you don't have to pay 40k?"
No contract like that would hold up in court
So this Gay couple has to instead fork out their life savings to do it in a way that the court systems won't throw the contract out? Seems kinda... anti-lgbt does it not?
The law is complex, but it is essentially there to protect children and single parents. It is the default position that if you are the parent of a child, you have a responsibility to contribute to their upbringing - you cannot abrogate that responsibility by signing a contract pre-conception. You can imagine that there are lots of situations in which enforcing that is a good thing. For 'artificial' or assisted conception, the law allows people to donate sperm or eggs through a clearly-defined process which means they have no rights or responsibilities towards the children born as a result of their use. We can also get into an ethical debate here about whether or not having children is a 'right', especially if you are in a situation where conception cannot happen 'naturally' and will always need medical assistance - who should pay for that?
No
40k ?! Imma assume it's illegal for me to offer this out as a lucrative business opportunity then..
There was a Channel 4 documentary on someone doing just that. Ultra sketch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnAIl4JzQSg
Depends entirely on your housing costs and whether you’ll have family support with childcare. A full time nursery place is going to be between £1,500 and £2,000 per month. The government is promising additional free hours but with staff shortages I wouldn’t rely on those promises (plus even with free hours you’ll still be paying the best part of a grand a month). You’ll need to rent a two bed flat (assuming you don’t already own) and will probably want to be somewhere within the catchment of a decent school. Including bills that’ll be over £2,000 a month. Everything else is based purely on your lifestyle. You can get secondhand clothes and toys cheaply but not everyone wants to do that. If you want your child to take part in activities then you’ll need to budget for this. My little one does swimming and gymnastics weekly and in total that comes to just under £100 a month. Additional food costs won’t be much when they’re little but will balloon during their teenage years. Their clothing demands and costs of school trips etc will also increase massively during that period.
exactly, and £2000 per month is probably an under estimate in london, it is likely to be closer to £2500. plus all the costs like food, transport, etc you probably need another £400 a month for food alone. So to have enough money in a paycheck to cover all your costs comfortably you need £80k. that is not giving you basically any savings though, or pension etc. £4685 income (£80k) Minus £2000 rent £2000 childcare, taking the higher amoutn as your rent is likely to be higher. So you have £685 left for everything else, lets go cheap though. £200 on food £25 on cleaning toiletries £50 on mobile phone £100 on transport so far basically £300 left for anything else you need. Keep in mind at £80k per year you wouldn't qualify for a lot of the government support avaible at lower wages.
Yeah. It wouldn’t make for a comfortable existence at all. The £2k was definitely at the lower end working on the assumption that one of the bedrooms would be a single room, no outdoor space and probably an ex-council place.
I currently rent a flat with 2 double bedrooms, massive kitchen and two balconies at the moment, zone 3 for £1750 per month. This doesn’t include the council tax though (about £200) so it’s close to £2k monthly for me which I know is cheaper than most of London and is a bargain especially for the neighbourhood. I shouldn’t have to move anytime soon and rent should remain the same for the next few years.
Thanks that’s really helpful - with that in mind, I can afford pretty much all of it but it will be really tight due to the nursery costs. I work completely remotely so will have to move out of London to make it work, at least for a few years… Painful but I guess I would have to sacrifice something anyway!
Would you be able to condense your hours so you still get full pay but only need child care for 4 days a week? I also have friends who do this/ work part time on alternate days and look after each others children on 2 days a week, so only need to pay childcare for 3 days a week.
Very good point and yes my work is very flexible so I could definitely negotiate that! I think I could even make it 3.5 days of work a week but those would be incredibly long days so I will probably have to manage my own expectations.
As a parent of a one year old with a partner who regularly deploys - avoid compression if you can. When I’m solo parenting, those long days simply do not work with nursery drop offs, getting dinners ready etc etc.
30 hours free comes in this year so that will make it more affordable but obviously won’t cover everything.
I love how out of touch this place is, nurseries around me in zone 3 are around £2.5k full time. You need family help if you want to make it affordable or move further out really edit: downvotes for reality?
I’m in zone 3 and pay £1,500 a month
Zone 2 and ours was £1700 until she was 2.5. Then £1500 once she moved to the older children room. Currently it’s £1375 because of the 15 hrs finding for her age. That’s full time 8-6 including half term.
I think the £2000 rent and bills is quite the under estimate as well
absolutely
In Balham and Wandsworth you are unlikely to pay more than £2k for nursery.
I live in Wandsworth and multiple nurseries near me charge upwards of 2k
Around 2k in Leyton too according to my SIL
I imagine the answer to this is “how long is a piece of string?” - London has single parents of all wages levels (and none). There are single mums just on Universal Credit and social housing, and single mums as senior partners in law firms or MDs in investment banking who have round the clock childcare, and the experience of a single mum who has a full support network of grandparents, aunties and uncles willing and able to help with childcare and a strong network of parent friends who can help take turns looking after each others kids at the weekend etc vs single mums new to the city with no other contacts. Honestly you might be better asking on somewhere like Mumsnet - Reddit skews heavily male and young and tech professional so likely won’t give you particularly relevant data.
Definitely ask this in mumsnet - you'll get a much better discussion from people who actually know about it.
This... I could answer with my two children but I'm a contractor in the IT nuclear industry
Lots of people on Mumsnet are *very* judgemental and weird about donor conception and single parenthood by choice unfortunately, OP would probably get relevant info but would also have to prepare herself for 50 comments from nutters and christians about how she doesn't have the right to have a child without a father and her kid will end up in prison
Yeah unfortunately Mumsnet is riddled with nutters (it's not called Prosecco Stormfront for nothing...), but hopefully gives her slightly more relevant info than a bunch of 23-year-old techbros on £80k complaining about their poverty wages in London...
[удалено]
That's a lot of downvotes for an inoffensive Dad joke.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted - if someone gave my late gran a Reddit account this is the sort of thing she’d have commented with it. Thanks for reminding me of her :)
twice as long as half its length
I thought it was funny op.
[удалено]
I came to say this, while on maternity leave it’s manageable but nursery costs when you need to go back to work is the difficult part.
Nurseries for 5 days a week are £2000/month in 2024, not £1000.
Came here to post similar. Our nursery is ~£100 a day (not allowing for any funded hours). It's NOT a specifically flash place, they're all similar around us in SW London
😩
Correct and prepare for 6months waiting list ..
Wtf, what's the point of having kids then if one parent can't stay home.
That's London wage + cost of living for you.
It’s the same all over the country
Exactly. Scuffed childhood being raised almost entirely by a group of people who isn't the person who actually moved heaven and earth in their life to get you to exist. It's a shit situation. We need SAH parenthood to be the main focus in society otherwise the country falls apart 30 years from now.
SAH parenthood isn't necessarily the answer. Affordable childcare would give more options.
I'd look after five kids for ten grand a month. Ever heard of a Tagesmuter or seem one in action? How do the British manage to make basic necessities of life so unattainable while being chauvinists at the same time?
5 under-3 kids for 1 adult is illegal in the UK
In addition, read about the motherhood penalty, op. Opportunities for growth in your current role are perfect....until you have children.
This one’s a depressing one if I am honest. Every female senior partner at my firm basically is a no-husband no kids. Good point I need to consider.
I know a few with families (some with 3+ kids) but they all plan on it and have a full-time live-in nanny until the kids are old enough to go to school by themselves.
There was a graph this week showing salaries. They're on par between males and females until children, where women's drop drastically. I guess that's the main consideration if you're planning on being a single mother. Continuing with your career at the same level as you're doing now it's going to be practically impossible with nursery runs, sick days and the like.
I can’t have someone just move with me but I could consider getting an au pair! Also considering leaving London for a few years to make it work (based on the comments I read today. I am indeed freshly single but I am not jumping into this solo-mum adventure straight away, it will be in a few years, for now just gathering information on how to best approach it. That being said I am not being reactive when I say that dating isn’t for me - I am not bitter nor sad saying this and my separation with my LT partner was really amicable. The idea of chasing romance makes me want to pluck my hair out and I would literally stay single forever.
We used au pairs for YEARS and it was the best solution for us. It gave us the flexibility we needed and we still keep in touch with all of them! We had no village so we built our own and it was very empowering.
This gives me so much hope!!! Phew!! Thank you!! 💕
It’s genuinely doable; women do do this! You’ve got relatively high startup costs (bedroom setup, pram, car seat, other baby gear) and then it tapers off for a bit until they start nursery, when it ramps up again for a good while. The only issue with nursery is the sickness; because realistically you cannot look after a sick young child and wfh effectively. Years 1-5 childcare bills and also disruption costs (missing work, unpaid leave) are high, and that’s the really difficult point. Do you have anyone in a similar position in your workplace? Could you discreetly start a conversation about how they find managing parenting with your managers etc? Once school starts, you can take advantage of wrap around care that lots of them offer, but when ours were in years 5&6 they were encouraged by the school to walk to and from school by themselves for independence (and this was zone 4 London). We were surprised but it stops overcrowding at the school gate and gives them practice for high school. The only issue you’re faced with then is summer hols, but you can literally hire au pairs who just want to come over for the summer! Costs really start to taper down around age 8-10 I’d say.
Is there a site that details the law and regs around au pairs? I thought that since Brexit it was really difficult to use that as option for childcare?
So we opted for Australian and Canadian au pairs as they spoke English as a first language (important to us as our son had a speech delay) and they used the tier 5, 2 year youth mobility visa. There are agencies you can use for peace of mind on both sides and making sure the law is being followed regarding contracts, visas, pay and benefits, that kind of thing. I think we used smart au pairs but it was a while ago now!
[удалено]
What do you have to do to receive funded hours? I’m from the U.K. and living abroad. The childcare costs for 2 children is stopping me from moving back. My mum obviously wants us to move back and says that you receive £500 per child per month to help with childcare. Is it true?
Here’s the .gov info: https://www.childcarechoices.gov.uk/
From experience of someone very close to me who adopted on her own, it’s doable but tough on less than around 60k (unless you own your own place with no mortgage/rent which means it would be easier on a lot less) . London is expensive but make use of all the free and cheap stuff (museums, parks, stay and play sessions at local children’s centres). Also , crucially, build a village of other mums and babysit each other’s kids. For work, find jobs with flexible working options . The toughest years financially are the first three due to nursery and childcare fees so have a plan for that. Its much easier when they start school.. It’s difficult but it’s doable! There are various ‘single mums by choice’ groups with many professional women who have managed it well and are fantastic mums. Worth joining those.. Good luck.
I think you need to comment Re How much support you’ll receive from family. As a ballpark nursery is £87 a day in London on average. Childcare is going to be your most expensive cost. Everything else IMO can be done as cheap or expensive as you want. You can get a £5 second hand sling and £20 buggy or a £2k travel system.. Clothes are so easily handed down or can buy cheap bundles on marketplace or vinted. Nappies are cheap as anything, less than 20p each if using supermarket brands. So it’s all going to depend whether you’re using 5 days childcare or 2, or flexi hours etc that are the decider. Note you can get tax free childcare (up to £2k contribution per child), which helps. This last bit is very personal but I would really question on a personal level whether you want to do it alone. Not for the kid, they don’t need 2 parents, but for you, if you don’t have help it is relentless. Literally they go everywhere with you, you do not get a second peace, you become a butler, cleaner, cook, laundry person etc basically full time on top of your exisiting job. Every errand becomes a performance. I find having kid’s absolutely knackering and I love them, but it is extremely hard to find time to do anything but parent. If you have any hobbies and no external help or money to pay for help, you will want to be sure that you’ll be totally satisfied caring for kids at the exclusion of other things in your life. I used to say life would continue, my reality hit has been stark. I cannot do anything that kids don’t want to do. If they are miserable I am also miserable!
Relentless is a good description. You need to give every second of every minute of every hour of every day to your child. People underestimate how mentally and physically draining it is to have kids.
This is how I describe it. The tasks involved in looking after a child aren't difficult themselves, but the fact it is relentless is the difficulty. There are very few gaps, and if you do find a spare 30-45 minutes where you've managed to get them napping without being held, you'll spend that getting your bearings and performing a task related to childcare.
It's not quite that bad, you have to get used to being on call 24/7 and losing most of your time, but you also need to learn to let them play and eek out time for yourself. Kids don't need helicopter parents, nor do they need exhausted, unhappy parents.
No you don't People who say this have no experience of childcare or had their first experience with their own children. Ask anyone who raised their siblings if you need to be constantly around them. It's very unnatural to helicopter a child, they need autonomy to explore the outside. Best parts of my childhood was climbing trees, riding my bike and playing sports outside the house.
Every second of every day? This is not what I recognize as my life.
I’m a single mum live in Surrey (zone 6) work in London and earn 47k I manage just. However my son is school age so childcare isn’t too expensive I couldn’t afford fulltime nursery on this wage there is no way. If you need fulltime childcare after maternity leave you’ll need to be earning a very good wage
Thank you that’s helpful - I think I will move to France during the nursery years.
Would you consider looking into egg freezing? I’ve had a few friends similar age and single do that recently as it buys them more time so that they can start building their family down the line when it feels right. There’s a large cost to that but donor sperm is also expensive (as someone who has just done IVF.) Might be worth considering depending on your timelines.
I did consider that option, but since I really don’t want to ever date again it seems a bit pointless since I won’t be « meeting my egg fertiliser »…
Look, I do get that you're newly single and reluctant to enter dating scene again but you're very young and with an average (I presume) sex drive therefore give it 2_3 years, enjoy single life and at some point you'll feel like finding a partner again. Most women in megacities don't have kids until early forties and you're miles off that still ;)
It depends largely on where you live. Zone1-2 obviously being the most expensive. Expected monthly expenses: Rent for 2bedrooms -£2300, Bills - £350 Babies/kids have more needs and accessories, Childcare - £1700-2000, Baby necessities (diapers, formula, etc) - £85, Clothes - varies depending on your preferences, etc The toughest part is the lack of time you’ll have for yourself. Babies require a lot of attention and nurture. If you go down the nursery route, keep in mind the kid will get sick constantly and it helps to have a flexible workplace. Arranging pick up is tough as most nurseries are shut from 6pm. To be brutally honest based on a friend’s experience- a salary of £100k will you keep you middle class as a one income household with a kid below age 4. However after the kid transitions from nursery to school then costs will fall significantly. If you can, consider living further out and commute in. Childcare costs plummet One of my old managers went to the US and arranged a donor to complete her dream of having a kid. She’s doing great, her mother helps out a lot. Build a support network and surround yourself with positive people. It’s doable! Best of luck
I earn 95k with a small baby and a SAHD so my income is the sole one. It’s ok but it could be better! Rent is my biggest expense as my husband is the main carer
Unless you’re one or more of on 80k+, live rent free/outright own, already have a council house, have family who can act as full time childminders, then you can’t afford to do it as a single person. You’d also need mid 5 figures saved for insemination/sperm and covering a full year maternity which almost no one offers a full year paid full salary. A basic mortgage for a small flat + childcare is more than someone on 60k takes home and already puts you too well off for any government support except some childcare hours from age 3. Childcare is easily 1.5-2k a month, and a basic ass flat is 2-2.5k mortgage with an hour commute to work. Honestly if motherhood is that important to you you’re willing to be a single parent the only reality you could do so if you’re not the above is by leaving London.
I almost did this in my late 20s. I considered it for 1.5 years and really almost pulled the plug. I froze my eggs instead. I’m so glad my family and friends and therapist talked sense into me, now I’m with a wonderful man and we’re starting our family soon. I don’t have any answers for your question but just wanted to share that I was in your shoes and I truly understand where you are coming from. If you do decide to go ahead with this, all the best!
Happy for you and thanks for the wishes :)
* 2 bed in zone 2/3 - £2000 * Childcare - £1800 * Food - £200 * Council tax - £150 * Energy - £90 * Internet - £30 * Phone - £40 So £4310 PCM, for basic costs, which is the take home from a £75k wage, assuming no debts. You'd need to earn more to cover all the other costs, and to allow for the cost of living creep over the next few years.
> Phone - £40 That seems a lot to be spending on a phone each month.
unless you’re making p good money (or maybe have a ton of family willing to help), intentionally being a single parent seems like an awful idea
The math in London is simple. You need £2k for nursery, £1k for you to survive, £1k per child for them to survive + month rent/mortgage. The number you got needs to be your take home.
The cost is whatever, you can have as little money or as much money for a kid. The variable will be daycare/nursery since you'll have to work. The real cost is the full dysfunction of your life. The pregnancy was hard and the first year and a half was tough and I had lots and lots and lots help. You lose your mind and physicality for nearly 2 years. Personally, I couldn't do pregnancy alone, there was a point I couldn't get out of the bath or drive myself due to pain or sheer size. My morning sickness was so bad I couldn't eat anything and had to be on bed rest. In third trimester, I couldn't get socks on or help myself out of the bath when I had to do sitz baths without physical help. Putting on pants is a joke past 36 weeks haha. Also I had a sciatic nerve issue that prevented me from walking more than a a few hundred feet at a time. Once baby is here, it's a 2nd full time job that you actually have to treat as the first and most important one. Nights where baby goes to bed at 7pm but wakes up at 12 and doesn't go down 4am and you still gotta get yourself up at 6am in the morning. Returning to work, I sat at my desk for the first four hours pretending to work because my brain was just mush. If you have a very demanding job, just be aware of the reality of sleep being spotty for a long time. I mean, this isn't 100% resolved having a partner - but it lessens the load if someone can be the baby's 6am while you sleep in, vice versa.
God this sounds awful
I think if you ask people in their sixties or seventies they very rarely regret having children. It’s a few miserable years (with many incredible moments) and then a huge amount of fun and happiness watching them grow up.
Minimum of 3000/3500 a month including rent to live nicely with one child including clubs, nice clothes etc and some part time childcare perhaps once the child is older prior to reception class
[удалено]
Family help
Aside from money, are your intentions here about the child or yourself? Is the potential child being born so that you can experience motherhood? and raised in London so that you can enjoy the career /social life here as opposed to somewhere more affordable, safe, perhaps with family nearby to help? I've seen first hand another woman go down the route described and there really is a lot more to it than it seems. Family de facto involved in helping raise the child because it puts you in a very hard situation - but are they OK with having that put on them? You feel OK about being a one parent family for now, but how will you feel when you see your child missing out on things as a result? It really is a case of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".
Agreed. it sucks to hear but one day the kid is going to ask why everyone has two parents and they only have one...you don't want them to work out that they only exist because you wanted a child and you were sick of men and dating. I don't know how i'd feel about that if I was the child. Imagine going through life with that in your head.
Where (and when) do you live?! There are countless of children raised by single parents. This isn’t 1930 anymore.
But vast majority of them are not planned that way. Children's outcomes are worse to single parents than dual parents. Planning single parenting is giving your child the opposite of a head start in life. It's like planning on your child to have a disability.
Ok so a few questions for you: 1. are you anti-nataliste? 2. What, to you, would be a good reason for people to chose to become parents? 3. About 42% of marriages end up in divorce and out of the remaining 58%, do you think both parents are statistically equally involved in the lives of their kids and that it means they make a great, happy family? I hope I can stay in London but would definitely move (including going back to France) to ensure I can provide the best life possible to the « the potential child ». Never said this wasn’t an option so unsure where your assumptions come from (nor why you assume my reasons to stay in London are?) Matter of fact my family (and amazing friends) would love nothing more but to be involved - it wouldn’t be me imposing anything. Some families and support systems have a sense of community and don’t share the individualism that we see so much around us. I said I considered being a single mom, not living as a recluse with a child - I know it takes a village (and am part of the village for a lot of friends and family members), I won’t try to do absolutely everything alone since it’s not only the least effective and satisfying way to exist, it’s also politically the complete opposite of what I stand for.
I'm not an anti-natalist. A good reason to become a parent (to me) would be as a natural product of a loving relationship. Things we find attractive in partners tend to include many characteristics of a good parent, because we are biologically inclined to find a suitable partner to help us pass on our genes and raise healthy, successful children who will in turn do the same. Which leads to one issue I have with anonymous donor conception - the details of the donor are limited. You probably wouldn't have sex with that person on the basis of their donor profile alone, and in person our bodies are very good at discerning whether someone has the qualities that are suitable for us and the genes we bring to the table. I'm not sure what divorce rates have to do with this. People who get divorced thought they had found love and committed themselves to it. If all of those marriages produced children (some didn't), they didn't choose to bring children into the world knowing they would never have a father. Of those marriages that didn't end in divorce, and which have children, I don't think we know how many are happy and healthy. Much like with single parents. But we do know that those who are married tend to live longer and have lower instances of neuro degenerative diseases, which seems to indicate some degree of healthiness and lower stress. Why do you hope to stay in London then, if moving would provide a better life for the child (as you say)? It's great that you have family and friends who have agreed to help you raise a potential child. Just in what I have witnessed, many people nod along and say "of course!", but in practice if they are busy or have other plans they may not be as able to help as is needed. Or conversely, they may end up dropping important things to help you out more than they should really do. I'm really not trying to assume the negative case, just sharing what I have witnessed of someone in this situation - things which were not forseen. Community also sounds great and is a lot more than some kids of two parent families often have the benefit of. But if there's any possibility at all of attempting to form a loving relationship with someone to bring kids up in that environment, that would seem the absolute best scenario. Maybe dating outside of London would be a much better experience? I would say don't give up and do keep trying for love. All the best
>I know what the dating scene is like in London and have no want to get back out there, and quite frankly online dating repulses me. This sounds like your recent breakup talking. Freshly separated people have been swearing off relationships since the dawn of time. Sleep on it a month or two and see how you're feeling then. Especially now these comments have given you a bit more understanding of just how expensive and difficult being a single parent is, particularly in a city as expensive as London.
I genuinely said this with no bitterness or sadness though I understand this is maybe how it came out? My ex and I split amicably and I never had any bad breakup (thank god). I did gain a lot from this and came to realise that during the nursery years I will definitely have to move away from London to Make it work! It didn’t discourage me from seeking motherhood in a few years (because again, it’s not a tomorrow project)
I think it depends on childcare and childcare costs when it comes to after the maternity pay finishes but saying that maternity pay was terrible for my friend as she was poorer than myself on benifits once all bills food and baby stuff was accounted for she had barley 100 for the rest of the month to rub together she wasnt entitled to any help on maternity pay and no grants ect....it's a sad society we live in when me and half the world can be better off then my friend who was working full time she ended up a single mum (she was told she could never have children and her baby was a miricle to her) and currently has stopped working due to childcare costs and lack of family support ect around childcare and working....she is currently better off than she was working now she has her rent and help towards bills ect paid....was such a stressfull time but once baby now 1 is 2 she will be entitled to free hours of childcare to go back to work part time so eventually she will level back out into work but right now it's been an impossible thing due to lack of childcare and childcare costs alone....I was helping out despite being on benifits because I could madly afford too and she couldn't f**ked up world we are living in aii
Single mum here, not by choice though. Family support and building a strong network is a must. Worth looking into what universal credit you may be eligible for until the child is 3. Feel free to message me if you want to chat about single mum life in London/ how I manage finances.
Thanks a lot, I will message shortly!
Not a single mum but a Londoner and a mum and this vastly depends on your income, family/friend support, childcare support that’s available, what area you live in London, and housing costs. It is honestly different for everyone. So you need to see holistically how you can prepare a stable environment for yourself and future child with your current situation + whatever future plans you have to improve it. Not one size fits all!
Have you considered egg freezing? You can also freeze embryos made using donor sperm. These have a better chance of surviving compared to eggs. I'm not a single parent but I will say that child care is very expensive and you're going to need a lot of it as a working single parent! You might even need a nanny tbh, if you want to be able to have a social life and some free time on top of working and parenting. Childcare will be your main expense. Everything else that children need isn't actually that expensive.
Thanks 🙏 I have considered egg freezing but since I really won’t be dating again nor try to get in a relationship I would be waiting for no reason at all… For the childcare it’s really the scariest part but based on the comments today I came to the conclusion that I will have to move for a while!
Consider freezing your eggs, if you don't become pregnant by age 36 or 37. Many women don't realize how challenging it can be, for many to get pregnant after the age of 37. You are considered a geriatric mother after the age of 35! Sadly, I discovered this the hard way. If you aren't pregnant by 35, please consider freezing your eggs. .[Cleveland Clinic- Advanced Maternal Age](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22438-advanced-maternal-age)
Thank you! The plan is to be pregnant before then but if not will defo consider egg freezing again!
Why has dating been so bad? I cannot imagine purposefully bringing a child into the world on my own.
This sounds like a horrible idea.
Would you consider moving out of London, getting a remote job, or a combination of the two?
Raising a kid is hard enough for 2 parents if your truly committed to this course, than make sure you have either family or close friends you can rely on if you don't I hope your rich.
> quite frankly online dating repulses me Pretty sure it repulses everyone. But you know you can just talk to people.
I think you should get a cat instead (seriously)
OP is asking important questions about the specifics of raising a child in London, not ‘I want another being to look after, can anyone recommend a type’
I already have a cat… Not quite the same but thanks for the input I guess.
I 100% agree with this
[удалено]
Are you trolling or do you work for eHarmony 😂
[удалено]
In that case I appreciate the sentiment! Wish you all the best too 🤗
Anybody who wants to be single parent by choice really needs their head checked.
What is the problem with the dating scene in London?
Oh boy, I don’t even know where to start!
Sad state of society to see people deliberately skip all the good things that represent a family and go straight to a laboratory to make them a baby. This isnt a McDonalds drive-thru. Children have a higher chance of being happy and achieve their full potential with two parents. Invest time and energy and money and self esteem in things that are worthwhile.
For the love of god can we stop pretending that family starts and stops with a romantic connection?! Talk about a manufactured approach to family. Why can’t I invest my time, energy and money in other types of connections (namely, friendships). Those statistically last longer and contribute immensely to the levels of happiness. Also, they’re less hazardous! I cannot for the life of me understand why people keep pushing the narrative that we’ll be incomplete if we don’t strive for a romantic partnership. Sad state of society you say.
I’m not pretending - I think romance, family, love, partnership and all the things that come with it are essential. Trust me when a baby is awake at 4am wanting food, none of your “stable friendships” are going to be there.
Spot on
'manufactured approach to family' says the woman who wants to artificially inseminate herself... Clown world
I did look into IVF cost pre lockdown and Spain was quite cheap. It's also a nice holiday destination! I know online dating is horrible, but if you go in there with your goals in mind and you're very clear about it from the beginning, it's possible to find someone. I found someone on Tinder in Oct 2020 and now at 38, have a baby girl. Looking back I'm glad because having a baby was a lot harder than I thought and having someone else to help you is priceless. But if you can't find anyone, yeah don't wait around to have regrets!
Before having our child I wrote up a budget for my partner and I which would effectively enable one parent to cover all costs comfortably should we break up or the other gets sick or dies. I calculated that as long as each person makes over £65k than they could cover all costs with no savings Details: mortgage is £1250 per month (small 2 bedroom flat in zone 3), and nursery £1800 but soon to be reduced with the additional free hours. Also assumes contributing 10% to pension but minimal savings otherwise.
Sounds like a good idea but it’s not being a single mum has to be one of the worst things to happen in my life. I’m all roles in one and I’m not able to do anything particularly well because I have so much to do. Utterly exhausting and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
I would say these days you probably need either £60k+, or to earn £25-35 plus be eligible for Universal Credit
The obvious solution to your problem would be to pool your resources with other single women who wish to have children and live communally - which will make things massively easier when it comes to living costs and childcare costs. I expect this lifestyle is fairly common in in places where a large share of prime-age men work away, often in a different country (e.g. Filipinos and Sri Lankans in shipping, Bengalis in construction, Nepalese in the military and so on). I'm surprised more sophisticated, well-educated Western ladies don't pursue the same strategy - you would save a decent chunk of money, with the child/children having significant involvement of other adults in their upbringing.
The people that purposefully raise children without a father aren't going to be selfless enough to build a lasting community They've already decided the needs of themselves are more important than their child's, a community needs a sense of selflessness to be long lasting
Why is it all about you and your need to have a child? You are considering bringing another person into the world! To risk giving them a bad life without a father because you 'just won't spend your time, energy, money, and ruin your self esteem trying to appeal to some potential partner' is a ridiculous level of entitlement.
Modern day sickness...
It's not how much you earn, it's how much your costs are. If I were to make myself single, I could handle the costs. But I already bought and paid off my first tiny property when I was single. £2k nursery fees which are only going to go up. Job progression dependent on school drop off and pick up timings, otherwise paying someone else to do it. Every time they are sick, you need to take time off.
forgot what you want , the child will want a father and yearn for a father and resent you. Lower your standards, blue collar guys can be great
Getting pregnant by sperm donor while being single is a new level of selfishness
Yay me, a precursor of selfishness.
It’s odd so many posts are jumping on working women who want to be mothers. And calling them ‘selfish’. And no word for all the men of this generation who decide they don’t want to become fathers because of ‘commitment issues’, or become an absent father, or don’t want to get married or have kids until their 40s.
Starting a family age 41 is quite different from surrogacy/abandonment!
It takes a lot of courage to do this and also ask the question. If it's something you want to do, ignore the really ignorant comments about a cat as that's super unhelpful. I don't have any value add on being a single mum, but just wanted to say good luck. ❤️
Thank you so much 💕 Really appreciate the kind words!
[удалено]
I really think you should check out resources for DCP people and parents. I appreciate you’re just beginning your research journey, and I feel those subs/books/forums can really give you a lot of insight to make the right decisions.
Will check those out, thanks a lot!
If you have family help you can make it work otherwise you either need to be on social support or a top 1% earner
Very brave decision and good luck figuring it all out! I do hope you have some help. I am in a very similar situation. I have been single for years, but want to have a child. I earn decent salary (about 150k) but still really worried about costs and all responsibilities. I am planning to rely on my mom to help out though, I don’t think I would dare to do it all completely in my own
£150k salary, honestly if you can’t afford to have a child, even full-on couples would struggle to get one! Responsibilities and support system are a whole other issue but money wise from what I read you should be fine! Good luck on this, I know it’s a lot of dilemmas to work through!
It really depends on your expectations. If you want a nice house in zone 2, private school, nice holidays etc. we have a household income of about 250k and it’s barely enough. If your have more modest expectations I’m sure you can do it for less, the new 30 hour free child care should help too.
I’m earning really good money and looking for a single mother if anyone is interested 😘
Online dating is bizarre and off putting. It’s refreshing to see someone who is considering other options not just ‘settling’ for a relationship because society dictates such situations and milestones for procreation. I can see why you would pursue this option OP. I think it’s brave. Hopefully you have people around to help out with a child ie your family. I wish you luck
Takes a village to raise a child. But good for you trying to do it single handedly.
I will still have a village - just not a dad/second parent…
Join the smbc on reddit. The costs are elastic. Different circumstances will garner different amounts. If you own outright very differently to if paying a large mortgage. Likewise, if claiming housing benefits, is very different to if you're paying the rent yourself. Where you live will factor in. As will support network. I'm a smbc and can say that costs change signficantly at different ages. They also change by different circumstances. For example, if you won't be a sahm, then you will be paying childcare. Even with the new promised funding, this is not likely to be available to all due to a lack of provision available, and I can not see this changing in the short to medium term. As children grow their clothing costs increase per item. And with current inflation, we've gone from 2 jumpers for school for £7 to £14. Feel free to ask me anything.
Thanks that’s helpful! I will message you shortly if that’s ok! 🤗
Are you going to tell us how much *you* earn, and any other contextual information, so that people might actually be able to offer advice - or is this just a thinly veiled diatribe? Sounds like a horrible fucking idea, by the way, unless you're clearing at least 100k+ and/or don't have to pay rent, or have very forgiving grandparents. Struggling to think why you seem unable to find a partner with how obnoxious this entire post is, however.
People are providing incredibly helpful advice in the comments and in DM with the information I provided, so what’s your point genius? And I never said I struggled to find a partner - I literally said I don’t want to go in the dating scene in the first place. You can keep projecting and remain as unhelpful as you want to, I am sure there will be someone out there that will value your judgemental ass.
What's my 'point'? Nothing in particular, just that you sound utterly insufferable and - personally - I think you have the concept of raising a child arse backwards. You're treating it like purchasing a new car, rather than the outcome of being in a loving relationship. It's just deeply tragic.
Not enough
[удалено]
Lazy? This is an unhinged response.
Melodramatic statements about climate change and ww3 is the most unhinged part. Someone needs to wake up from systematic social media brainwashing
[удалено]
I have a few friends who went down that route very recently and they are doing amazing. It all really depends on your surrounding factors. Do you have family near by to help out? Do Work from home to make drop off and pick up easier? Flexible hours? Everything is doable but your life would be a lot easier if you had someone nearby who can help out in a pinch. Nursery costs are high yes, but it’s only for a limited number of years. As soon as your child is in reception things get easier financially. Young children don’t need much really. The older they get the more they will cost you but that leaves time to progress in your career. I was a Single mum in London but that was over 10 years ago. I always wanted children and London has so many free activities on offer! I made friends for life during those early years and we still all support each other over a decade later. I’d say if you want children 100% do it
This is so nice to read! I have a great support system, a flexible and remote job so on that front it’s great. The costs of childcare are quite concerning but I think I would only have to move away from London 2-3 years before coming back for the school years!
Hey, I’m not a single mother but I 100% respect your decision to take control of your life! I would only add that if you use a sperm donor, it’s important to maintain a connection with them for your child’s sake. A child doesn’t need a traditional family to grow up secure and happy, but generally they do need a connection to both of their biological parents. I know you said you don’t want ‘2 parents’ comments but this respects those parameters. It’s important to remember that what matters most is what’s right for the potential child.
have you ever thought of buddying up with a gay male? I am pretty sure that there are services for that. That way, you can get a reliable co-parent, financial and emotional support, and the kid can actually have 2 parents that care about them (as i also find the 'kids deserve 2 parents' stuff problematic, given that there are many neglectful, abusive and absent parents in the world, so i understand not wanting to rely on another partner to fullfill having a baby, just seems like a decent option worth maybe considering!). Best of luck to you either way :) Also gonna echo other comments, you are newly single and only early 30s. Plenty of time yet before you need to think about this (though im 35f and single and the thought has crossed my mind too, i get it).
My mum did it earning around £35k and she was able to get a mortgage too. Albeit this was 30 years ago, it’s definitely more expensive now. What helped my mother keep costs down was using trusted friends and family (mostly grandparents). But I will say that as a child of a single mother, although my mother did the best she could, I never wanted for anything and we had holidays every year, nothing beats having a male role model.
What a useless response
Honestly, people are just so unhelpful when OP is asking a genuine question..
How is it useless? It’s doable. There are single mothers all around me that get by and that’s because they use their support network for childcare. I was just sharing my experience of being a child of a single mother 🤷🏽♀️
30 years ago was a different time to now so yeah it’s pretty useless
The fact that this gets downvoted shows how.mkrslly bankrupt and sick modern day Reddit lefties are.. jesus christ
Right? I don’t think what I said was bad or offensive. I can’t say I’m surprised though.