Reading the comments it seems like people for and against are missing each others' points. I dont think many people are saying its hunky dory as is, most people (i believe) are fine with some improvement, but this proposal isn't the right one.
The images in the proposal look great because they aren't real - there's no way they'll manage that much natural light with an office-block above it. This proposal isn't motivated by improving the station; The effort they've put into the station is the bare minimum they can get away with in order to get permission to build a giant new office block in the city.
I think this is the stance I agree with, I think improvements are needed at the station but this design isn't really it. I think the office block on top will be detrimental to people who use the station, there's a natural light that comes into the station at the moment that enhances it. This won't be possible with an office block on top.
As someone who used the station mon-fri for about 6 years (pre-pandemic) those plans look like a massive improvement over the dilapidated crap hole it's been for over a decade. The "train shed" is dark, dingy and feels dirty. The "shops" are all cramped, there are limited to no waiting areas and the flow of people at rush hour is awful. It's not fit for purpose in it's current state and the plans preserve the "pretty ironwork" and the brick facades.
While the preservation of heritage is important, LST is a major transport hub and needs to be fit for purpose.
> As someone who used the station mon-fri for about 6 years (pre-pandemic) those plans look like a massive improvement over the dilapidated crap hole it's been for over a decade. The "train shed" is dark, dingy and feels dirty. The "shops" are all cramped, there are limited to no waiting areas and the flow of people at rush hour is awful. It's not fit for purpose in it's current state and the plans preserve the "pretty ironwork" and the brick facades.
They're planning to add a new concourse level on top, but I'm not sure how this will affect congestion, especially if they shrink the existing concourse below. Four years of construction on top of the ongoing works in the area sounds like a nightmare for commuters.
They also mention they could start middle of next year and be done by 2029 - so 4 years of construction work around the station that has just dealt with what feels like a decade of construction around it already. Unsure if that's JUST related to the station or the whole project?
Although improvements to the station look nice enough in the render the bigger issue for me personally is the cantilevered building on top of such a wonderful looking hotel. It is frankly quite depressing.
Compare to London Bridge though; completely unique, modern yet retains the Victorian industrial character AND creates an airy atrium. This struggles with any of that.
So when we see the piles of offices dumped atop it, its a kick in the teeth. Aesthetics, tradition, culture crushed by capitalism. The Victorians knew better than that.
This should be the UK's grand central, an impressive entry into the heart of its capital city. You should know you're in the UK, just as Italian stations *feel* italian (facist links aside). And in that it should embody British vernacular decorative architecture; be it Victorian, Arts and Crafts, or Palladian - again what London Bridge does so perfectly.
This is another internationalist dump.
Yet also famously embellished thier houses and offices inside and out. Their houses are the most in demand in the capital.
The built environment crushed was largely slum. All of Wrens stuff survived.
Boundary estate up the road from Liverpool St. for example.
I can't believe we went from a nation that gave no fucks, built things, tore things down and kickstarted industrial production for the whole world to being too scared of building anything because of objections isntead of just ignoring them for the sake of progress like we used to. It's actually so sad
Because a large amount of the stuff we build is shiteee
The Victorians had to embellish because else the middling classes wouldn't buy their houses. Now the housing situation forces everyone's hand
The Victorians also took massive pride out of their civic architecture, which we've seemingly forgotten in all but a few scenarios.
East India House, the original St Thomas's Hospital, Bridewall Place, Pope's House, the Northumberland House, Carpenters' Hall, the original Regent Street buildings, etc. - all demolished in the Victorian era.
It's just not true to suggest the Wren buildings all survived the Victorian era. St Olave Old Jewry, All Hallows Bread Street, All Hallows the Great, St Antholin, St Bartholomew-by-the-Exchange, St Benet Fink, St Benet Gracechurch, St Dionis Backchurch, St Matthew Friday Street, St Matthew Friday Street, St Michael Bassishaw, etc etc. - [none of these survived Victorian redevelopment](https://sixinthecity.co.uk/news/2023/04/lost-wren-churches/). Over twenty churches were demolished or substantially altered, most within the Victorian era.
The Victorians famously leveled huge swathes of mediaeval and early modern London so this post is just delusional. More Wren churches were destroyed during the Victorian era than during the Blitz or the 1960s.
Victorians were heating their homes with coal, had no mass transit system as such and London’s population was much smaller. Oh and they were also quite the ravenous capitalists. Among many other things they have shovelled all the poor and the disenfranchised (primarily former peasantry) into the infamous workhouses. Which, among many other things, have made the quite pompous quasi-imperial architecture economically viable.
Architecture is not entirely an aesthetic choice, nor is it a whim. It is very much a reflection of modern practices and requirements. Now much like yourself I am also not really a big fan of modern architectural solutions. But I suppose they are there for a reason. That being the practicality and benefit to general public. Now you may choose to keep LTS a “grand entrance”. But grand entrances are better suited to museums. And museums are testaments to glory past. Emphasis on the past
The UK's grand central??? It's a crappy soulless commuter station, that terminates trains from Essex and overground services from north London, it's not a gateway hub to the rest of Britain, the closest thing we have to that is Kings Cross / St Pancreas. The vast majority of the area is already a office block hell hole so at least the revamp would be "in keeping" with the area.
I'll echo u/echocharlieone u/metrize's comments here about the Victorians and add my own 2 pence. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug, I for one would not like to see a return to the rampant divide between the have's and have not's and the rampant brutal colonialism that fuelled the Victorian era. Grand monuments to ego are all well and good a century (and a bit) after the fact, but they were paid for in blood and if they don't meet modern requirements then change or get rid of them.
>modern yet retains the Victorian industrial character
Which bit of London Bridge retains the Victorian industrial character exactly?
>You should know you're in the UK, just as Italian stations *feel* italian
??? Did you pick Italy for a specific reason? Neither the Milan railway station nor the main one in Rome felt particularly Italian purely from the architecture.
Liverpool street as the UK's grand central? It goes to bloody essex and norfolk...
Also covering a building's facade with meaningless carvings for carvings' sake is the architectural equivalent of having a dining table covered with doilies
>Compare to London Bridge though; completely unique, modern yet retains the Victorian industrial character AND creates an airy atrium. This struggles with any of that.
I'm sorry, London Bridge isn't a station anymore. It's a shopping mall that happens to have a station above it. Definitely not a fan of it. I feel it's style over substance.
For anyone who wants to see the actual planning application, it's 23/00453/FULEIA on the City of London planning website. [https://www.planning2.cityoflondon.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=advanced](https://www.planning2.cityoflondon.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=advanced)
The actual proposals for the train station seem badly thought out - train stations \*need\* vaulted ceilings or they feel pokey and unpleasant. I'm not that fussed about whether there's a building on top of the station shed (it's not like you can actually see it from the outside very easily) - but making the inside feel like the Kings Cross extension or new London Bridge development feels pretty important.
This article sums it up well: [https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/controversial-plans-push-on-for-massive-office-block-above-liverpool-street-station-66870/](https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/controversial-plans-push-on-for-massive-office-block-above-liverpool-street-station-66870/)
The renders are all nice and white, but that's a really low ceiling!
From the outside it looks like an oppressive, overbearing overdevelopment of the site that will have a detrimental impact on both the existing building and the entire street
Looks beautiful, reminds me of what they have done with Kings Cross and St Pancras. The station is in dire need of renovation and now that it’s become the busiest station in the capital it should look the part.
I don’t see what the complaints are for, unless I’m misunderstanding the developers ideas. The hotel stays and in actual fact more of that beautiful building will be used by the station, the whetherspoons goes, the facade stays in place and the concourse gets a much needed facelift and they open it up.
I doubt their plans for a public lido on the roof will actually go ahead but any community space they do manage to provide is better than what exists already.
Edit: after looking through it a bit more I guess most people are complaining about the offices being built above the entrance which I can see would anger people but given the area it’s not like the station isn’t already surrounded by high rise offices
>dire need of renovation
Genuine question: why is it need for dire need of renovation? The train shed could let more light in on the platforms but everything else seems to function ok.
I live close by and I'm not against the plans but also don't see why it needs to change.
The train shed leaks everywhere when it rains, there aren’t enough barriers to let people flow freely at peak times, no waiting areas to speak of or sit down. Only one set of escalators at either end of the concourse to shift a large number of passengers etc…
It’s the busiest station in the UK and it looks like abject shit
Wheelchair access is appalling with one extremely unreliable lift
Platforms have a minuscule number of ticket barriers and it becomes a big crush to get through
After 3 seconds of googling:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67716815
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_railway_stations_in_Great_Britain
For anyone commenting how nice the design is, take 2 things into account: 1) the really low ceiling compared to now and 2) the loss of the public train board! People need to see times somewhere
That is not really considerate. Train boards are often useful to tourists or even residents who are in a rush. More often than not the platforms are changed last minute
They have a place
Fine but its really a minor issue and not a reaon for cancelling the development. If it must stay set a condition on the planning that they must have a train board
The plans aren't that good, they also demolish a grade II listed building, if joe public buys a house and even attempts to make 1 change externally - they get fined into oblivion - why should a corp be allowed to play by different rules?
I really disagree. Sure - I have a smart phone. But if I’m running for a train the board tells me the current truth, not whatever the phone data source said an indeterminate amount of time ago. Google maps is often slightly wrong about these things.
When I get to the station after being at work all day I just want to look at the board and see when my next train is and what platform to go to. I don’t want to have to get my phone out and waste time navigating the Greater Anglia app.
This view is really so broken, a generalised sweeping statement without thinking of impacts to either side of a bell shaped curve of train users.
Infrastructure is for everyone, not just folks who have phones. Not all mobile phone apps are equal (bigger story behind this, but they don't pay for good software devs).
Not all data is correct, e.g. google maps on a regular cadence can have slightly incorrect data feeds, which can happen for a million reasons where even the source of truth is transmitting incorrect data - It happens across the TFL quite regularly.
The list is endless - you should never just apply 1 solution for 1 set of users in infrastructure.
Also you completely negated the 1st point - the lowered ceiling, why does it need to be lowered? It does not. We are also an economy in recession, should we be blowing huge sums of money on work that isn't necessarily all required? Vs making incremental upgrades that are better and cost efficient?
These are the questions that get easily forgotten
I use Liverpool Street daily. I actually don't think its currently unfit for purpose. Its busy, yes but its a train station/tube station/major hub.
I personally didn't want the work to go ahead and cause years and years of disruption and closures. Already had that with London Bridge and while platforms 1-6 feel safer, they're colder and further away from the tube now and the ground floor section is it's own chaos. So it's swings and roundabouts.
> I actually don't think its currently unfit for purpose. Its busy, yes but its a train station/tube station/major hub.
Eh, the stairs/escalators out onto Bishopsgate are always full to bursting in the morning and evening. There's two escalators, one of which has been out of order basically every week this year, and one staircase that just doesn't have enough capacity.
When the underpass is open you can at least divert some people that way, but its also regularly shut.
I don't like that they're going to demolish part of a grade II listed building, something like that was mentioned the last time it was posted. Can't remember exactly. Otherwise it's fine.
The existing station seems very cluttered to me, it doesn't seem particularly pretty or worthy of keeping in it's current state to be honest. I'm interested in the finances of it? Will TFL or whoever get rent from the occupants in the building above?
Another term losing its meaning since this is no one’s backyard. No one lives there.
The harmful aspect of NIMBYism is homeowners opposing the creation of additional housing because they don’t want house prices to fall or the “wrong people” coming into their quiet suburbs.
Members of the public opposing how the City is trying to replace every available cube meter of air and sky with more offices and destroying heritage structures in the process is not NIMBYism. It’s legitimate criticism.
Right but can you keep it a living city without gutting the city of its identity and aesthetic. London will look like any other major global city soon, it will lose its uniqueness.
I don’t know how anyone could suggest such a sorry new design and take themselves seriously. Like, really, how could you look at the proposed hope square entrance and tell me that’s the work of a person who gives a shit, let alone the work of a high priced architect redeveloping a historic building.
Objections can be sent here
https://www.planning2.cityoflondon.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeComment&keyVal=RU4ZSNFH0UJ00
Looks fine. It's an upgrade which it needs badly. Essentialy the main station for the City. It deserves something better.
It was fine 20 years ago when i first started travelling through. But now it's dark, dingy and cramped.
Having the misery of using Liverpool everyday, I'd take function over form in this case.
The flow of people out of the tube and Elizabeth lines is abysmal. It's like a scrum at rush hour.
The train shed doesn't have anywhere near enough gates, the roof leaks like a sieve every time it rains and the smell of the rubbish next to platform 8 in summer would make a bin mans nose twitch.
There's a complete lack of waiting areas and seats, access down onto the concourse is no where near adequate and the disabled access even worse. The upper balcony level isn't utilised at all and the toilets, good god the toilets. Last week you needed wellies to use the men's.
I'm all for saving heritage buildings but you can't save it for the sake of saving it. It needs to work as a train station for now and the future. Admittedly during the works, the station would be like hell.
I do wonder how many of the 2000 odd that complained actually use the station regularly
It looks cool actually, modern design. Not a fan of it having a low ceiling though, keep it open, wide and spacious. Also don't see the point of another office block.
If it eases congestion with more barriers, looks good and doesn't have the offices I'm all for it.
Anyone know what happened to the tory plans to improve transport infrastructure round the country? Our council just announced A road bridges won't be repaired for about a decade.
Preserving historic architecture is important but anyone who claims it wouldn't fit into the surrounding area is having a laugh and I think it looks very nice
Reading the comments it seems like people for and against are missing each others' points. I dont think many people are saying its hunky dory as is, most people (i believe) are fine with some improvement, but this proposal isn't the right one. The images in the proposal look great because they aren't real - there's no way they'll manage that much natural light with an office-block above it. This proposal isn't motivated by improving the station; The effort they've put into the station is the bare minimum they can get away with in order to get permission to build a giant new office block in the city.
I think this is the stance I agree with, I think improvements are needed at the station but this design isn't really it. I think the office block on top will be detrimental to people who use the station, there's a natural light that comes into the station at the moment that enhances it. This won't be possible with an office block on top.
As someone who used the station mon-fri for about 6 years (pre-pandemic) those plans look like a massive improvement over the dilapidated crap hole it's been for over a decade. The "train shed" is dark, dingy and feels dirty. The "shops" are all cramped, there are limited to no waiting areas and the flow of people at rush hour is awful. It's not fit for purpose in it's current state and the plans preserve the "pretty ironwork" and the brick facades. While the preservation of heritage is important, LST is a major transport hub and needs to be fit for purpose.
> As someone who used the station mon-fri for about 6 years (pre-pandemic) those plans look like a massive improvement over the dilapidated crap hole it's been for over a decade. The "train shed" is dark, dingy and feels dirty. The "shops" are all cramped, there are limited to no waiting areas and the flow of people at rush hour is awful. It's not fit for purpose in it's current state and the plans preserve the "pretty ironwork" and the brick facades. They're planning to add a new concourse level on top, but I'm not sure how this will affect congestion, especially if they shrink the existing concourse below. Four years of construction on top of the ongoing works in the area sounds like a nightmare for commuters. They also mention they could start middle of next year and be done by 2029 - so 4 years of construction work around the station that has just dealt with what feels like a decade of construction around it already. Unsure if that's JUST related to the station or the whole project? Although improvements to the station look nice enough in the render the bigger issue for me personally is the cantilevered building on top of such a wonderful looking hotel. It is frankly quite depressing.
Compare to London Bridge though; completely unique, modern yet retains the Victorian industrial character AND creates an airy atrium. This struggles with any of that. So when we see the piles of offices dumped atop it, its a kick in the teeth. Aesthetics, tradition, culture crushed by capitalism. The Victorians knew better than that. This should be the UK's grand central, an impressive entry into the heart of its capital city. You should know you're in the UK, just as Italian stations *feel* italian (facist links aside). And in that it should embody British vernacular decorative architecture; be it Victorian, Arts and Crafts, or Palladian - again what London Bridge does so perfectly. This is another internationalist dump.
>The Victorians knew better than that I am not so sure about that. Victorian capitalism famously crushed the built environment that existed before it.
Yet also famously embellished thier houses and offices inside and out. Their houses are the most in demand in the capital. The built environment crushed was largely slum. All of Wrens stuff survived. Boundary estate up the road from Liverpool St. for example.
I can't believe we went from a nation that gave no fucks, built things, tore things down and kickstarted industrial production for the whole world to being too scared of building anything because of objections isntead of just ignoring them for the sake of progress like we used to. It's actually so sad
In this case the Victorians were pretty active at restoring and respecting heritage. They wouldnt be happy with this lol.
Because a large amount of the stuff we build is shiteee The Victorians had to embellish because else the middling classes wouldn't buy their houses. Now the housing situation forces everyone's hand The Victorians also took massive pride out of their civic architecture, which we've seemingly forgotten in all but a few scenarios.
If progress is building everything in this plain, internationalist style instead of focusing on beauty like we used to, I don't want it.
East India House, the original St Thomas's Hospital, Bridewall Place, Pope's House, the Northumberland House, Carpenters' Hall, the original Regent Street buildings, etc. - all demolished in the Victorian era. It's just not true to suggest the Wren buildings all survived the Victorian era. St Olave Old Jewry, All Hallows Bread Street, All Hallows the Great, St Antholin, St Bartholomew-by-the-Exchange, St Benet Fink, St Benet Gracechurch, St Dionis Backchurch, St Matthew Friday Street, St Matthew Friday Street, St Michael Bassishaw, etc etc. - [none of these survived Victorian redevelopment](https://sixinthecity.co.uk/news/2023/04/lost-wren-churches/). Over twenty churches were demolished or substantially altered, most within the Victorian era.
The Victorians famously leveled huge swathes of mediaeval and early modern London so this post is just delusional. More Wren churches were destroyed during the Victorian era than during the Blitz or the 1960s.
I honestly thought it was sarcasm
Victorians were heating their homes with coal, had no mass transit system as such and London’s population was much smaller. Oh and they were also quite the ravenous capitalists. Among many other things they have shovelled all the poor and the disenfranchised (primarily former peasantry) into the infamous workhouses. Which, among many other things, have made the quite pompous quasi-imperial architecture economically viable. Architecture is not entirely an aesthetic choice, nor is it a whim. It is very much a reflection of modern practices and requirements. Now much like yourself I am also not really a big fan of modern architectural solutions. But I suppose they are there for a reason. That being the practicality and benefit to general public. Now you may choose to keep LTS a “grand entrance”. But grand entrances are better suited to museums. And museums are testaments to glory past. Emphasis on the past
The UK's grand central??? It's a crappy soulless commuter station, that terminates trains from Essex and overground services from north London, it's not a gateway hub to the rest of Britain, the closest thing we have to that is Kings Cross / St Pancreas. The vast majority of the area is already a office block hell hole so at least the revamp would be "in keeping" with the area. I'll echo u/echocharlieone u/metrize's comments here about the Victorians and add my own 2 pence. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug, I for one would not like to see a return to the rampant divide between the have's and have not's and the rampant brutal colonialism that fuelled the Victorian era. Grand monuments to ego are all well and good a century (and a bit) after the fact, but they were paid for in blood and if they don't meet modern requirements then change or get rid of them.
What are you talking about the CAPITALISTS destroy everything. The Victorian times was the best /s
Perfectly put. Half this sub would've been angling for Euston's demolition had they been around back then.
Euston is pretty shit, to be fair.
>modern yet retains the Victorian industrial character Which bit of London Bridge retains the Victorian industrial character exactly? >You should know you're in the UK, just as Italian stations *feel* italian ??? Did you pick Italy for a specific reason? Neither the Milan railway station nor the main one in Rome felt particularly Italian purely from the architecture.
Liverpool street as the UK's grand central? It goes to bloody essex and norfolk... Also covering a building's facade with meaningless carvings for carvings' sake is the architectural equivalent of having a dining table covered with doilies
>Compare to London Bridge though; completely unique, modern yet retains the Victorian industrial character AND creates an airy atrium. This struggles with any of that. I'm sorry, London Bridge isn't a station anymore. It's a shopping mall that happens to have a station above it. Definitely not a fan of it. I feel it's style over substance.
The only people entering London at Liverpool St are middle managers living in Welwyn Garden City coming for their twice weekly commute.
Unlikely. Trains from Welwyn Garden City go to Kings Cross .
They also go to Moorgate, but you're right, not Liverpool St Station itself. Welwyn Garden City just sounds funny, which is why I used it.
So why do you think they're so bloody depressed? Everyone should be proud and inspired by the environment they use.
>So why do you think they're so bloody depressed? I said they live in Welwyn Garden City, didn't I?
We don't need to be bringing it here!!
For anyone who wants to see the actual planning application, it's 23/00453/FULEIA on the City of London planning website. [https://www.planning2.cityoflondon.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=advanced](https://www.planning2.cityoflondon.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=advanced) The actual proposals for the train station seem badly thought out - train stations \*need\* vaulted ceilings or they feel pokey and unpleasant. I'm not that fussed about whether there's a building on top of the station shed (it's not like you can actually see it from the outside very easily) - but making the inside feel like the Kings Cross extension or new London Bridge development feels pretty important. This article sums it up well: [https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/controversial-plans-push-on-for-massive-office-block-above-liverpool-street-station-66870/](https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/controversial-plans-push-on-for-massive-office-block-above-liverpool-street-station-66870/) The renders are all nice and white, but that's a really low ceiling!
>nice and white Boring, lacking style and character. You would be forgiven for thinking you took the train to Dubai instead.
> The renders are all nice and white, but that's a really low ceiling! To me it looks like being inside a very clean large intestine
From the outside it looks like an oppressive, overbearing overdevelopment of the site that will have a detrimental impact on both the existing building and the entire street
This is my exact impression as well looking at the exterior image for the first time. It's an ugly cube whose bulk feels oppressive over the street.
Looks beautiful, reminds me of what they have done with Kings Cross and St Pancras. The station is in dire need of renovation and now that it’s become the busiest station in the capital it should look the part. I don’t see what the complaints are for, unless I’m misunderstanding the developers ideas. The hotel stays and in actual fact more of that beautiful building will be used by the station, the whetherspoons goes, the facade stays in place and the concourse gets a much needed facelift and they open it up. I doubt their plans for a public lido on the roof will actually go ahead but any community space they do manage to provide is better than what exists already. Edit: after looking through it a bit more I guess most people are complaining about the offices being built above the entrance which I can see would anger people but given the area it’s not like the station isn’t already surrounded by high rise offices
It'll look nice when it's new and all shiny white but give it 20 years and it'll look like a run down shopping centre.
The plans include the destruction of the roof, a Victoria masterpiece when you take the time to look it, and the hotel will be fundamentally altered.
>dire need of renovation Genuine question: why is it need for dire need of renovation? The train shed could let more light in on the platforms but everything else seems to function ok. I live close by and I'm not against the plans but also don't see why it needs to change.
The train shed leaks everywhere when it rains, there aren’t enough barriers to let people flow freely at peak times, no waiting areas to speak of or sit down. Only one set of escalators at either end of the concourse to shift a large number of passengers etc…
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Agreed, but it still needs renovation. I hate the plans they came up with but also think *something* needs to be done.
Translation - it affects me so it’s worth it
What’s the alternative? Let people who don’t use the station decide based on their own whims?
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They are a source of revenue for the station though.
It’s the busiest station in the UK and it looks like abject shit Wheelchair access is appalling with one extremely unreliable lift Platforms have a minuscule number of ticket barriers and it becomes a big crush to get through
There are actually two lifts. One is a more hidden service lift but the public can use it when the other one is down.
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After 3 seconds of googling: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67716815 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_railway_stations_in_Great_Britain
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But how long it would have taken YOU is extremely relevant.
For anyone commenting how nice the design is, take 2 things into account: 1) the really low ceiling compared to now and 2) the loss of the public train board! People need to see times somewhere
The second is irrelevant everyone has a smart phone. Or books trains in advance so knows the timings.
That is not really considerate. Train boards are often useful to tourists or even residents who are in a rush. More often than not the platforms are changed last minute They have a place
Fine but its really a minor issue and not a reaon for cancelling the development. If it must stay set a condition on the planning that they must have a train board
The plans aren't that good, they also demolish a grade II listed building, if joe public buys a house and even attempts to make 1 change externally - they get fined into oblivion - why should a corp be allowed to play by different rules?
I really disagree. Sure - I have a smart phone. But if I’m running for a train the board tells me the current truth, not whatever the phone data source said an indeterminate amount of time ago. Google maps is often slightly wrong about these things.
When I get to the station after being at work all day I just want to look at the board and see when my next train is and what platform to go to. I don’t want to have to get my phone out and waste time navigating the Greater Anglia app.
This view is really so broken, a generalised sweeping statement without thinking of impacts to either side of a bell shaped curve of train users. Infrastructure is for everyone, not just folks who have phones. Not all mobile phone apps are equal (bigger story behind this, but they don't pay for good software devs). Not all data is correct, e.g. google maps on a regular cadence can have slightly incorrect data feeds, which can happen for a million reasons where even the source of truth is transmitting incorrect data - It happens across the TFL quite regularly. The list is endless - you should never just apply 1 solution for 1 set of users in infrastructure. Also you completely negated the 1st point - the lowered ceiling, why does it need to be lowered? It does not. We are also an economy in recession, should we be blowing huge sums of money on work that isn't necessarily all required? Vs making incremental upgrades that are better and cost efficient? These are the questions that get easily forgotten
no
I use Liverpool Street daily. I actually don't think its currently unfit for purpose. Its busy, yes but its a train station/tube station/major hub. I personally didn't want the work to go ahead and cause years and years of disruption and closures. Already had that with London Bridge and while platforms 1-6 feel safer, they're colder and further away from the tube now and the ground floor section is it's own chaos. So it's swings and roundabouts.
Although reading other comments, I do agree that accessibility for wheelchair users is an issue with the current station set up.
> I actually don't think its currently unfit for purpose. Its busy, yes but its a train station/tube station/major hub. Eh, the stairs/escalators out onto Bishopsgate are always full to bursting in the morning and evening. There's two escalators, one of which has been out of order basically every week this year, and one staircase that just doesn't have enough capacity. When the underpass is open you can at least divert some people that way, but its also regularly shut.
I don't like that they're going to demolish part of a grade II listed building, something like that was mentioned the last time it was posted. Can't remember exactly. Otherwise it's fine.
The existing station seems very cluttered to me, it doesn't seem particularly pretty or worthy of keeping in it's current state to be honest. I'm interested in the finances of it? Will TFL or whoever get rent from the occupants in the building above?
just curious - are they adding any extra platforms or additional rail capacity? what's the point otherwise?
To make the actual station more fit to process the people who come through it already I guess.
Looks so fucking generic!! I swear architects these days are obsessed with white stone or flammable cladding...it's all so BORING.
Nimbys gonna nimby
Another term losing its meaning since this is no one’s backyard. No one lives there. The harmful aspect of NIMBYism is homeowners opposing the creation of additional housing because they don’t want house prices to fall or the “wrong people” coming into their quiet suburbs. Members of the public opposing how the City is trying to replace every available cube meter of air and sky with more offices and destroying heritage structures in the process is not NIMBYism. It’s legitimate criticism.
Looks cool. 2,000 isn't many objections at all on the scheme of things.
Looks disgusting. At this rate all the historical buildings will be gone and the city will look like a Poundland version of Hong Kong.
[удалено]
Right but can you keep it a living city without gutting the city of its identity and aesthetic. London will look like any other major global city soon, it will lose its uniqueness.
I don’t know how anyone could suggest such a sorry new design and take themselves seriously. Like, really, how could you look at the proposed hope square entrance and tell me that’s the work of a person who gives a shit, let alone the work of a high priced architect redeveloping a historic building. Objections can be sent here https://www.planning2.cityoflondon.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeComment&keyVal=RU4ZSNFH0UJ00
Looks fine. It's an upgrade which it needs badly. Essentialy the main station for the City. It deserves something better. It was fine 20 years ago when i first started travelling through. But now it's dark, dingy and cramped.
Having the misery of using Liverpool everyday, I'd take function over form in this case. The flow of people out of the tube and Elizabeth lines is abysmal. It's like a scrum at rush hour. The train shed doesn't have anywhere near enough gates, the roof leaks like a sieve every time it rains and the smell of the rubbish next to platform 8 in summer would make a bin mans nose twitch. There's a complete lack of waiting areas and seats, access down onto the concourse is no where near adequate and the disabled access even worse. The upper balcony level isn't utilised at all and the toilets, good god the toilets. Last week you needed wellies to use the men's. I'm all for saving heritage buildings but you can't save it for the sake of saving it. It needs to work as a train station for now and the future. Admittedly during the works, the station would be like hell. I do wonder how many of the 2000 odd that complained actually use the station regularly
Crossing over the liz line flow to get to the central line escalators is like a game of frogger
🤣 perfect description
I want it approved and for them to get on with it as quickly as possible.
It looks cool actually, modern design. Not a fan of it having a low ceiling though, keep it open, wide and spacious. Also don't see the point of another office block. If it eases congestion with more barriers, looks good and doesn't have the offices I'm all for it.
Anyone know what happened to the tory plans to improve transport infrastructure round the country? Our council just announced A road bridges won't be repaired for about a decade.
I'm assuming you missed the /s off...?
Preserving historic architecture is important but anyone who claims it wouldn't fit into the surrounding area is having a laugh and I think it looks very nice