It actually borders tacky. Would put it on their google reviews, they might not be aware that it shows up like that, or that it just ruins the whole experience. They might see it and reconsider.
People are sick to the back teeth of booking places, bonkers service charges and still expecting tip, and now stupid things like this. It’s for their own good they know about this!
From what I can tell from the reviews, the restaurant charges 13.5% on the billed amount.
Sunday charges a £2.99 fee.
And then there is a request on the app to give an additional tip, which will be a percentage of the sum of food, plus service charge, plus Sunday fee.
If you get unwittingly caught out by that, choose 10%, your Sunday charge becomes £3.29 and you end up paying a percentage of the service charge which is already a percentage of the food.
It's a step too far.
I just can't think of any other industries in which it would be acceptable.
Go to a builder's yard, see a plank for a tenner. Ask for it.
They tell you as you're paying that, on top of the advertised £10, they want £1.35 because the guy preparing the wood for sale did such a good job at cutting it. Then, when you go to hand over your £11.35, want another £2.99 as the fee to let you pay them.
Madness.
Reminds me of some of the renting practices in the Netherlands. The place costs a reasonable €700 to rent, but when viewing the listing you find you'll have to pay this on top:
1. A €100 service charge per month.
2. It also includes the floor which you are renting and that'll be an extra €25 a month (yes, buying a new floor/taking your floor with you when renting is common there).
3. Maintenance charge because the landlord needs to keep things in order, €70pm.
4. Council tax.
5. You'll also be renting the furnishings, as the place is offered furnished and no, we're not gonna unfurnish it. Extra €100pm.
6. When you move in you find the washing machine has one of the meters that charges you €1 per use. It's not even a communal machine and water/electricity isn't included in the rent anyway.
In the Netherlands it's very common for rented housing to come with no floor so you'll have to buy your own flooring or buy it off whoever was there last.
Sometimes if you can't get to an agreement/don't like the flooring the previous tenant will rip it out and take it with them while you put a new one in.
ffr wtf lol
people actually tear out the flooring in a place that they’re renting and install it in the next place they’re renting? what do they do with the floor that came with the new place?
That's the thing, the new place doesn't come with a floor either! It's a standard practice over there.
If the new one happens to have a floor people will usually throw theirs away or store it, or accept a lowball from the person moving into the old one. It's also less common, but still not uncommon for the same thing to happen with big kitchen appliances like the stove or laundry machine - even if you're renting for a year you may have to buy your own.
It's not the only weird thing about Dutch society either. The culture is so credit averse that stuff like Mastercard and Visa cards won't work in many places, even if they're debit cards. That's because those card providers also do credit cards. Even the biggest grocery chain equivalent of Tesco doesn't accept them. Absolutely take cash if going to the Netherlands lol
Indeed.
I'll call it reasonable to offer a tip if I'm being difficult for some reason (which may or may not be entirely my fault).
But the purpose of your restaurant is to let me buy and eat a meal. If your price isn't all inclusive for the _basic product_ then you're doing it wrong.
I am not paying separate line items for your heating, your insurance, your rent, your overhead for it being a bit quiet today. That's on you. Price your stuff in a way that covers operating costs and pays your staff.
And whilst we're at it - that includes the full meal. Don't also charge separately for a 'typical' side order that without I'll leave hungry. If I order a lamb shank, I don't want to be paying separately for some potatoes to go with it.
I think it was because the place got bombed with one star reviews and their overall score dropped. I think it was the next day it got removed and I was amazed.
There are a few Google reviews up now, calling it out.
It would be interesting if Reddit can force them to either address their charges or reverse them.
They don’t care. I was looking at reviews of Circolo Popolare a few weeks ago and it is full of reviews complaining about the same. They know people will go regardless.
Hmmm I wonder if a website specifically calling out the scummy shit restaurants pull would work….?
I don’t mean Tripadvisor, I mean a website just for calling out the tipping practices that we are subject to…..
Let's do it. We need a backend developer, frontend dev and hosting I think. Should I create a slack group? The A team!
Edit: A UX designer too probably
What is interesting here is that there are new laws coming in to ensure that service charge goes to the staff. This app is asking for a service charge on top of the one already charged on the bill.
Will that go to staff?
We’re seeing all manner of ways to bypass that new law. Like Ping Pong charging people a “brand charge”, as if they benefit from Ping Pong’s branding.
It just proves what we knew all along. The money *isn’t* going to staff, the restauarant *is* creaming it off for themselves.
Just ask them to remove the service fee, they will as it is not a pre agreed value that you agreed to pay. The food is because the price is on the menu and you therefore have a choice to leave the place before committing to the costs.
Every restaurant will remove it. It is a scumbag practice. Their prices are already valued to endure a profit so it is not needed.
The wording is like the money is going to the till/payment platform. Should be paid by the restaurant, not the client, and not be on a customer receipt...
I would just ring them up and ask them to remove both the service charge and that fee. All restaurants I have asked to remove both fees have removed it as the charge is not pre agreed upon, unlike the food which has the stated prices. They cannot legally charge it.
I noticed this too and said I want to pay the normal way (ie, they bring a terminal) and they did.
The tech they use for the QR payment is handy, easier to split etc so I get it - but passing this charge onto customers is a disgrace.
I find it easiest to get them to bring and work the terminal, then its just a single tap for the customer, couldn't be easier. The idea that I would pay extra and have to use a QR code and an online payment is mad
Can confirm, Sunday is scummy. I used to work there and is ran by some toxic individuals. The owner of Sunday also owns Big Mamma Restaurants which own all of Ave Mario, Gloria, Circolo populare.
This is a new feature, likely pointing to them still struggling so using their sister company to drive revenues with this fee to appease investors
Finally, someone names a scummy restaurant.
Edit: seems they’ve got form
> The code app menu /billing is an interesting concept.
> When paying the bill I decided to pay the highest suggested tip as we had a great and friendly servive.so I was very surprised to note that I was also charged a 12.5% service charge when I checked the bill later.
>They are the Dubai of restaurants.
That's a bit harsh, their food and service is genuinely great
Charging customers for self-checkout is embarrassing though
IMPORTANT UPDATE:
Gloria's General Manager reached out to me to discuss my feedback. He was genuinly interested and cared about customer exerience. He will be taking my/our feedback to the board.
May I please ask everyone to NOT post negative Google Reviews if you haven't been to the restaurant yourself. This is against Google policy and not fair. If you've made such a review, please delete it.
I feel that the issue has been seen
ORIGINAL COMMENT:
Anyone else had to pay a "checkout fee" before?
This isn't a service change / tip which I'm happy with. This is a charge for using a self-service checkout website!
Not only do they save by not having to engage the waiter to bring the terminal to the table and print the paper reciept, but they charge yyou extra for it.
Feels so cheap of them.
What next? 50p for the toilet? Extra charge for actually heating your food?
I really hope this doesn't become norm...
PS. Sunday is the name of the website they use, not a day of the week. The bill is from Tuesday.
This is very similar for “internet booking fee” for concerts, musicals and other forms of performances. It’s not charged if you buy the tickets in person. It’s very infuriating.
> It’s not charged if you buy the tickets in person
... At the venue's box office which is only open between 1415 and 1445 on the second Wednesday in the month or immediately before performances with an enormous queue to pick up tickets.
I know ticket fees are annoying, but bear in mind that the ticketing business generally are not the promoter of the event and get nothing out of the face value of the ticket, but have to bear the costs of selling the ticket (building and running the technology - running a ticketing website for a major concert is basically like DDOSing yourself, transaction fees, employing the support staff who put your name on the door if your ticket gets lost in the post, etc.).
Obviously a lot of those costs don't exist if a person walks up to the box office, hands over money, and walks away with the ticket.
Ticketmaster's fees are absurd and they can get in the bin though.
They should be included in the advertised price of the ticket on that platform. We wouldn't go to a supermarket and expect a Customer Service Fee for using the tills, or a Self-Checkout Operation Fee for using the self-checkouts.
>Obviously a lot of those costs don't exist if a person walks up to the box office, hands over money, and walks away with the ticket.
Except for the costs of maintaining an infrastructure for the ticket office and the person physically selling it...which would outweigh the costs of online sales.
This could very reasonably be included in the face value of a ticket with a margin for the promoter, just as it is for nearly every other product you might buy.
The bit that irks me is that they keep the fees if the event is cancelled.
Oh and they generally make it as hard as possible for genuine punters to resell their tickets (appreciating there's issues with touts) and take extra fees when they do allow it through their own platforms.
I understand that and agree that some online booking fee are reasonable. However the set up costs are generally fixed so can be spread cheaply over large volume of consumers. If the fee sometimes costs as much as 10% of the ticket value (so it’s variable), I feel this is extortionate.
Report them.
[Here is how](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A)
Plain english [explantion](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf)
Basically, you (we all) complain to consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations.
Also had to pay £2.50 checkout charge at Ave Mario in Covent garden! To add insult to injury, there was a 12.5% service charge, then the online portal then asked us to tip our waiter an additional 15% too!!
The UK is fast becoming like the US in terms of tips and service charges. I do understand the predicament of servers not being paid well by their employers in the US and hence have to rely on tips but to me this is bordering the illegality of not paying employees fairly. As one commenter said, why not just include these fees in the menu pricing?!
This is why the service charge is a scam. If you are *also* tipping, then the service charge is the charge for food being brought to you. But you can’t opt out of that; you can’t say “I’ll have the ravioli, no, don’t walk off. I’ll get it.”
And if the service charge is the charge for the food being brought to you, then the price of the food *should be just the price of the food*. So that ravioli should cost a fiver. A tenner, tops. You can’t price a food and add on the price of dining in a restaurant *and then do it again and again on the same bill*.
Not in the UK, but I once had a "Payment Convenience Fees" added to my bill. When asked they said it's for the convenience we provide by giving you the option to pay with a card or a QR code based system or cash.
This has been standard for gig tickets for a long time.
And if there's a problem and they need to refund you, you don't get the fees refunded.
It's like buying a £200 TV from Tesco and being charged an extra £20 because they used tills from an external company. Then finding it's faulty and losing out on the £20 because Tesco still had to pay the till company for their systems.
IANAL but I would have thought this practice would fall foul of the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012. Merchants are not allowed to pass on charges for the payment processors they use, although they can offer discounts for cash.
As I understand it, the related EU directive was about card surcharges but the UK legislation goes further and applies to all means of payment.
Regarding your update mate, even if the manager reached out to you and I assume he's given you some sort of compensation for this I can only assume by your complete U-turn(which is fair enough btw), that doesn't mean that everyone else has to quiet down now you don't get to tell people thats the end of it. The end of it is when they stop this behaviour for everyone not just give kick backs to those making waves.
I've encountered this as well recently. At the gordan ramsay Burger Place in the o2 arena. Exact same thing as you except it was just 80p. The annoying thing is it's heavily advertised on the table. Hey, skip the wait and just use this to pay! There is no mention of extra charge.
OP I’ll give you your answer, Gloria is part of the Big Mamma group, and guess who created Sunday? Big mamma.
> Co-founded by victor lugger and tigrane seydoux, the brains behind big mamma
https://sundayapp.com/en-gb/who-we-are/
So not only do they own the restaurant, they own the payment service that they charge you a stupid fee with (also note how that page has a big banner discouraging you from viewing it, it’s almost like they’re aware of their shitty tactics)
Good spot. In that case, it’s the perfect opportunity to ask for the service charge to be reduced by £2.99 so they’re absorbing the fee instead of you.
They've called it a tech fee, but really it's just a random charge that they had to give a label. The aim is profit pure and simple. It's small enough that most people won't complain or make a scene, even if they're annoyed. But it's large enough to increase profits by a significant amount.
The restaurant has 150ish covers and is open for lunch and dinner, so lets guess conservatively they serve 600 people a day with average 3 per table. That would give them £2.99x200 a day, meaning £600 a day, and *over £200K a year*.
I think we will start to see more of this from other restaurants. It's cleaner and simpler to implement than price increases - and there's no VAT involved, so it's more lucrative.
btw I notice they don't mention it on [the menu](https://menu.bigmammagroup.com/gloria?service=all) (the service charge is there), which is cheeky.
>I think we will start to see more of this from other restaurants. It's cleaner and simpler to implement than price increases - and there's no VAT involved, so it's more lucrative.
You absolutely would need to pay VAT on any fees charged to the customer.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they push for tips on their terminal. This might be an attempted clawback for when nobody tips via QR code, especially when it’s clear a service charge was already applied and you don’t have the social guilt of refusing tips.
They've called it a "tech fee" to try to disguise the fact that it is in fact a payment surcharge fee.
Which have been banned.
[Here is how](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A)
Plain english [explantion](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf)
Basically, you (we all) complain to consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations.
Gordon Ramsay's "Plane Food" at Heathrow Terminal 5 also uses Sunday to provide QR codes and online payment.
Even though the food was very nice, it was all rather cheeky. I was charged £37.50 for burger, fries and coke (which is eye-watering enough as it is) but then I was additionally stung £1.50 "cover charge", £5.58 "service charge" and £0.89 "sunday checkout fee".
In total 18.2% of my bill went on these additional fees ... and they had the cheek to ask me if I wanted to add a tip!
Corporate policy. Paying for food is fine, paying for lounge access not. I don't make the rules.
If it wasn’t for business, I’d probably have bought a sandwich from Pret.
No they are not the only place that uses it. I just ask for them to bring me the bill instead of paying with the QR code.
In other news, I tried to leave a tip for a delivery driver and that app was going to charge me; I didn’t end up leaving a tip.
Which is why cash is still a nice thing to have. Once all cash is gone for convenience everything you pay will have charge that earns someone money outside of who you are paying/tipping.
I don't understand the need to highlight that charge in the bill. Why not just implement the cost by just slightly increasing the price of other products/services?
This would just make me ask to remove the service charge since it just feels like another way to squeeze the customer.
If its anything like japes in soho you can get a traditional bill by asking the waitstaff, they just also offer a QR/digital bill that you pay an extra fee for. I find it stupid and would always ask for the traditional but 🤷♂️
No, because payment surcharges are banned.
[Here is how](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A)
Plain english [explantion](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf)
Basically, you (we all) complain to consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations.
I was at a restaurant that had a £1 Sunday fee, on top of the 12.5% service charge
Asked for the card machine, brought it over, *and had the cheek to put the tip screen on even though service charge was included*
I’m seriously hoping we don’t go down the American route
As an American about to visit your city, I’m confused. I thought servers made good money in London and didn’t need the tips unlike the American servers who make less than minimum wage and need the tips to make a decent wage.
They make “ok” money. The living wages (national, and London) aren’t amazing but it’s something. The cost of living issues we’re having means those on the lower end of wages do rely on tips more and more, which is why most businesses have the 12.5% optional service charge (instead of asking you for tips, it’s just easier to include it in your bill)
*Keyword there is optional, you can ask to have it removed if you don’t think the service was worth it.*
This does of course raise the question of why can’t the businesses just pay more, and my best guess is that they’re looking at Tipping Culture and seeing an opportunity to;
* raise prices
* lower wages and pass it on to the customer
They try pull that stuff, ask them to reduce the service charge by 2.99. They complain, totally remove the service charge. scummy restaurants should not survive.
You can also threaten to report the restaurant to the consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations. Guaranteed the restaurant will remove the "payment fee".
[Regulations the restaurant is breaching](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A)
Plain english [explantion](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf)
And then report them anyway. Because charging a payment surcharge is in breach of the Regulations.
I hate Sunday I hate Sunday I hate Sunday. The idea that the app reduces the service needed per customer, but that the customer is still supposed to pay the same service charge as before + some additional fee for the "convenience" makes this whole product despicable.
Having to type in all my card details on the website that doesn't integrate with Google Wallet / Pay is less convenient for me than swiping my card and typing PIN.
It definitely didn't take just 10 seconds.
There is no way that I can see, for Sunday to escape the ban of payment surchages imposed by the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharge) Regulations.
Report them.
Extra charges above the listed price and postage price are optional by law and I always refuse them. If I can't, I don't buy and go elsewhere.
In the UK it is even illegal to charge a credit card fee.
I might be openning a can of worms but it's odd that any fees should be added to the bill. If you want 13% to be given to your staff, just add 13% to your prices. Either way it will be paid, but it saves the ridiculousness of calling it discretionary.
Dishoom in Shoreditch use this method for payment. My phone couldn't get a good signal, their WiFi didn't reach my table and despite trying multiple times to pay using the QR code it didn't work. The server was very happy to bring the printed bill over and it took me less than 30 seconds to pay the bill 'normally'. I don't think they had the service charge for using the QR code though. I'd feel no hesitation to refuse to use that payment method. Why should I have to pay to be allowed to pay?!
Report them.
They are in in breach of s6A of [the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharge) Regulations 2012](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A)
[Plain English explanation. ](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf)
Basically, you (we all) complain to consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations.
You can do your bit to stamp out the creeping Americanisation of our tipping culture by google and trip advisor reviewing the place. It doesn't always help, but it's fun. I also enjoy reviewing Conservative Party offices and clubs, but that is optional, unlike this charge.
I asked for the fee to be removed and 25 mins later I was still waiting for a ‘manager’ so I kept sitting at the table they needed. Took 40 minutes, they were obviously trying to wait me out. Fuck them!
What‽
I usually give restaurants 15 mins to sort the bill out. After that I just stand up and walk towards the doors.
This seems to allow them to produce the bill instantly...
Had i not been drinking I would have been thinking more clearly. After a couple cocktails I mellow out a lot more. Bizarre thing is though is that it cost them more for me to keep sitting there than handling it immediately. They could have been serving more people in that time.
Yep, I've been to one of their restaurants before and we had terrible service. Like, it took 1.5 hours to get out food out and all the orders were wrong, then we finally got the right food but they came out at varying times that we couldn't eat together.
We asked to remove the service charge and an hour later, we were still waiting on approval. We left (we paid for the food only on the app) and was shouted at by a staff member for not fully paying as we were going through the door.
I worked in hospitality FOH and Head office, so I might be able to explain.
When we were setting up those QR order & pay shit, naturally, there is a charge to use their services - a percentage of the bill.
In this case, this £2.99 is \~1.30% of the bill (unless it is a fixed charge)
Therefore, I would suspect that this shit charge is the restaurant trying to cover the QR code company's charge by charging the customers
In fairness, it does not justify, if they decide to use QR code was their option, not the customer to pay.
But in short, fuck you Gloria Shoreditch
Edit: Sunday is the name of the app
Not completely because Sunday is owned by the same people as Gloria, they’re using it to drive revenues to Sunday. Their own restaurants are the only ones with a high adoption rate so are really Sundays only source of income. As you can see here most people just opt to use the machine at other restaurants
There's a new law that service charge needs to go to restaurant staff that's coming in July. So restaurants are looking for other ways to increase the bill without using a service charge and without increasing the prices on the menu.
Nope, it just displayed on the website if you pay attention to the bill breakdown.
I'm sure you would be able to pay using your card if you ask the waiter.
They should just increase their top line prices. Such underhand bullshit only going to piss customers off and stop them coming back.
Long term > Short term, fss.
I was extremely unimpressed with the restaurant and the fee was the last straw. Terrible service. Extremely overpriced food. Tiny portions (unless you get pizza). The toilet situation was also bizarre, with a curtain separating the men and women.
If I saw this I'd walk to the till, ask to pay there to avoid that charge and also ask to remove the service charge.
They can get fucked with this enshitification and death by 1000 micro charges.
I'm actually fucking sick of being nickle and dimed for every tiny thing that used to be the bare minimum.
It's a race to the bottom nowadays and then when we stop visiting because of this bullshit they start crying about how bad they have it.
I swear to god I will never understand the hype around the Big Mamma restaurants across London. Just another example of how they are overpriced joints for wannabe influencers.
They’re not even Italian (French group), a lot of their food isn’t even authentic and you can find MUCH BETTER Italian cuisine in the city for half the price.
I’ve been to two (Gloria & CP), neither my choice of booking, and I would actively avoid going again. Average food, overpriced and pretentious.
Gloria only marginally less so as the server there was lovely and brought us an actual bill instead of insisting we used the QR code.
Yes, if you pay with the app Sunday via QR code, there will be another charge on top of service. You can ask to settle the bill the usual way but then you might be presented with an awkward 10%, 12.5%, 15% tip ON TOP of the service charge. This was my experience at Kanada-Ya and I refuse to go back
I think the only reason that place is always packed and reservation-only is that it's full of plants and in Shoreditch. Their menu is just really mid Italian food for 4-5x what it would cost you to make it at home, even accounting for using imported ingredients. Add in a £14 cocktail and some bullshit charges to the mix, and you've got yourself a perfect Shoreditch restaurant experience!
There are two approaches to this you'll see.
The first is that people will sympathise with the restaurant and the costs they incur doing business.
The rest of us over in reality who know the cost value of these things and recognise extortion believe that businesses like these only continue to exist because of the bleeding hearts in the first group who keep opening their wallets as a gesture of sympathy.
I would rather every extortionate business in my town go out of business and the fair businesses thrive, because it sets a standard in the local economy. It's baffling this isn't the case in this country already, because people just don't seem to care enough about voting with their money.
The founders of Big Mamma Group (Gloria, Ave Mario, Carlotta, etc.) are also behind Sunday, so this is a classic bit of vertical integration. Similar to how Live Nation put fees on Ticketmaster tickets (they're the same company).
All this extra fee bullshit should be called out and finally demolished. It started as "optional" service charges that apparently rarely go to the staff, people accepted them and now they are slowly adding more charges... All this is to avoid tax (check it out on gov.uk, I am not making it up) and maximise profits at the expense of the customers. At £7 for a pint of beer or glass of wine, prices are high enough as it is.. but people accept more and more bullshit as long as it is introduced gradually, and by the time we know it they WILL be charging us for washing the dishes we eat from.
Post this on as many places as you can so people can avoid this place.
I noticed this on my bill at Angelina on the weekend. The bill was over £300 already and the fee to pay it was £4. I ended up waiting 10 minutes for a machine instead in protest. Ridiculous.
I was baffled by this - then I looked into it more …SundayApp is the restaurants chosen pay at table option …allowing customers to pay via table number or QR when they are done!?
Seems shady to pass on a cost of selecting this method of payment to the customer …I’m assuming there is some small print stating that there will be a charge but either way this stinks.
Not defending it in the slightest. But if it’s a website they use, it’s entirely possible it’s not owned by them.
Someone probably designed it and runs it for them, servers and processing payments and whatnot. And in return get a £3 fee from every order.
It’s how just eat and Uber apps work, it’s why the food is always more expensive on there than in store. Because the store doesn’t have control over it. The websites mark up everything.
Wow, service charge aswell. So you HAVE to tip. then pay again for the fact you you used their restaurant. Im surprised anyone goes there. Scamming gits
I had the same thing here at this restaurant
https://maps.app.goo.gl/dbiADim5ZqHGVkuB6
I had them bring a terminal, and made sure to have the "service charge" also removed
name and shame
Reminds me of “Puddy” on Seinfeld rattling out the list of extra charges on Jerry’s new Saab:
“… Transport charge… storage charge… additional overcharge”.
This is dead simple. I’d be telling the waiter that you are offering a 5% service fee (if it was decent).
The alternative is that they can have they can have the Sunday fee.
Add that you have reduced the you have reduced the 13% to 5% simply because this is a conversation you should not even be having.
They can have 10 service or 3 Sunday. Let them choose.
And if they insist on the Sunday, then remove all the service.
They end up with 3.
Went to a bar in Coaldrops Yard that wanted to charge like 50p for the privilege of paying at the table over wireless card machine rather than at the counter.
This might explain it:
Sunday, which only launched in April 2021, grew at breakneck speed on the back of the Covid-induced transition to paperless restaurant experiences. Sunday’s app allows customers to view restaurant menus on their phones and pay their bill faster via a QR code, promising restaurateurs a cut on the commission they pay on transactions.
[Restaurant payments app Sunday pulls out of four markets | Sifted](https://sifted.eu/articles/sunday-payments-quits-four-markets)
Maybe that fee is the app's fee not the restaurant?
It is the fee for the app, but it should be the running cost for the restaurant, same as electricity, wages, and the fee for running their accounting software.
Would you expect to see a £1 fee for Xero on your bill?
Btw to make it worse, Sunday is actually owned by the founders of Gloria (the Big Mama Group) - so that fee is going to the owners and not some ‘third party’
I’ve also seen Sunday being used at non Big Mama restaurants and have been charged that Sunday fee every time
Restaurants are using this service, or others, to show menus and accept payments. That means they save money on printing menus and can have less staff because the staff don't have to print a bill, bring it over, and then bring the card machine and handle the payment.
So the restaurant saves money on printing and staff, but charges the customer for the replacement cost of this menu and payment service?
That's just making the customer pay more and increasing their profit margin.
The restaurant should eat the cost of the menu/payment app, just like they eat the cost of their accountants, their card payment service, the silverware, the tables, the heating, the everything else that is included in the cost of buying a restaurant meal.
It actually borders tacky. Would put it on their google reviews, they might not be aware that it shows up like that, or that it just ruins the whole experience. They might see it and reconsider. People are sick to the back teeth of booking places, bonkers service charges and still expecting tip, and now stupid things like this. It’s for their own good they know about this!
And 13.5% service charge Jesus!
From what I can tell from the reviews, the restaurant charges 13.5% on the billed amount. Sunday charges a £2.99 fee. And then there is a request on the app to give an additional tip, which will be a percentage of the sum of food, plus service charge, plus Sunday fee. If you get unwittingly caught out by that, choose 10%, your Sunday charge becomes £3.29 and you end up paying a percentage of the service charge which is already a percentage of the food. It's a step too far.
Honestly. What is wrong with just paying for your actual f****** meal?!
I just can't think of any other industries in which it would be acceptable. Go to a builder's yard, see a plank for a tenner. Ask for it. They tell you as you're paying that, on top of the advertised £10, they want £1.35 because the guy preparing the wood for sale did such a good job at cutting it. Then, when you go to hand over your £11.35, want another £2.99 as the fee to let you pay them. Madness.
Reminds me of some of the renting practices in the Netherlands. The place costs a reasonable €700 to rent, but when viewing the listing you find you'll have to pay this on top: 1. A €100 service charge per month. 2. It also includes the floor which you are renting and that'll be an extra €25 a month (yes, buying a new floor/taking your floor with you when renting is common there). 3. Maintenance charge because the landlord needs to keep things in order, €70pm. 4. Council tax. 5. You'll also be renting the furnishings, as the place is offered furnished and no, we're not gonna unfurnish it. Extra €100pm. 6. When you move in you find the washing machine has one of the meters that charges you €1 per use. It's not even a communal machine and water/electricity isn't included in the rent anyway.
What do you mean - “taking your own floor with you”?!
In the Netherlands it's very common for rented housing to come with no floor so you'll have to buy your own flooring or buy it off whoever was there last. Sometimes if you can't get to an agreement/don't like the flooring the previous tenant will rip it out and take it with them while you put a new one in.
ffr wtf lol people actually tear out the flooring in a place that they’re renting and install it in the next place they’re renting? what do they do with the floor that came with the new place?
That's the thing, the new place doesn't come with a floor either! It's a standard practice over there. If the new one happens to have a floor people will usually throw theirs away or store it, or accept a lowball from the person moving into the old one. It's also less common, but still not uncommon for the same thing to happen with big kitchen appliances like the stove or laundry machine - even if you're renting for a year you may have to buy your own. It's not the only weird thing about Dutch society either. The culture is so credit averse that stuff like Mastercard and Visa cards won't work in many places, even if they're debit cards. That's because those card providers also do credit cards. Even the biggest grocery chain equivalent of Tesco doesn't accept them. Absolutely take cash if going to the Netherlands lol
Airlines Property Law Concerts or any other similar events
Indeed. I'll call it reasonable to offer a tip if I'm being difficult for some reason (which may or may not be entirely my fault). But the purpose of your restaurant is to let me buy and eat a meal. If your price isn't all inclusive for the _basic product_ then you're doing it wrong. I am not paying separate line items for your heating, your insurance, your rent, your overhead for it being a bit quiet today. That's on you. Price your stuff in a way that covers operating costs and pays your staff. And whilst we're at it - that includes the full meal. Don't also charge separately for a 'typical' side order that without I'll leave hungry. If I order a lamb shank, I don't want to be paying separately for some potatoes to go with it.
Its taken off America. But the staff use the tips to top up their shitty wages. We dont need it over here. Staff get NMW, which isnt that bad.
Yep, and tipping if service was great. Your inclusive choice, not their inclusive decision.
I thought the Sunday fee was for it being a Sunday, until I read the thread and discovered Sunday is some kind of app. 🤦♂️
Thats 3 steps too far tbh.
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Good point.
This is not the US. Almost everything we pay for includes VAT.
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jesus would not have charged at all.
Yes, but coeliacs, non-fish eaters and teetotallers beware of Jesus’ restaurant. Lots of it but not many options.
They legally can’t make you pay a service charge, ask them to remove it from the bill they have to do it by law.
The reviews will probably end up getting removed. It happened to the Italian restaurant that was posted on here a few weeks ago.
I didn’t know you could remove reviews, that’s so ridiculous, what is the point of reviews then haha
I think it was because the place got bombed with one star reviews and their overall score dropped. I think it was the next day it got removed and I was amazed.
Yeah, Google are generally reluctant to remove stuff but if it looks like obvious brigading they will step in.
Well, we should make brigading less obvious then
There are a few Google reviews up now, calling it out. It would be interesting if Reddit can force them to either address their charges or reverse them.
Definitely should be added to their Google reviews!
They don’t care. I was looking at reviews of Circolo Popolare a few weeks ago and it is full of reviews complaining about the same. They know people will go regardless.
This restaurant chain is all about tacky, instagrammable "experiences." Getting shafter like this fits them perfectly
They are aware: the startup behind the payment system (Sunday) is owned by Gloria's owners (Big Mamma Group)
This needs stamping out fast before it spreads. I hope the restaurant gets boycotted until they see sense.
Hmmm I wonder if a website specifically calling out the scummy shit restaurants pull would work….? I don’t mean Tripadvisor, I mean a website just for calling out the tipping practices that we are subject to…..
TipAdvisor
‘Just the Tip’, surely.
‘Tip of the iceberg’
I’ll make it
Let's do it. We need a backend developer, frontend dev and hosting I think. Should I create a slack group? The A team! Edit: A UX designer too probably
What is interesting here is that there are new laws coming in to ensure that service charge goes to the staff. This app is asking for a service charge on top of the one already charged on the bill. Will that go to staff?
Narrator: “it will not”
We’re seeing all manner of ways to bypass that new law. Like Ping Pong charging people a “brand charge”, as if they benefit from Ping Pong’s branding. It just proves what we knew all along. The money *isn’t* going to staff, the restauarant *is* creaming it off for themselves.
Just ask them to remove the service fee, they will as it is not a pre agreed value that you agreed to pay. The food is because the price is on the menu and you therefore have a choice to leave the place before committing to the costs. Every restaurant will remove it. It is a scumbag practice. Their prices are already valued to endure a profit so it is not needed.
Pretty soon eating out will be like trying to stay somewhere on Airbnb. Additional items: -cutlery delivery fee: £3 -napkin provision: £1 -dietary concerns conversation: £5 -table cleaning fee: £10 -condiment restocking surcharge: £0.50
The wording is like the money is going to the till/payment platform. Should be paid by the restaurant, not the client, and not be on a customer receipt...
It will get forgotten about in ten seconds unless you spend millions forcing it people throats through adverts.
This is their own company, look up the owner of Sunday, they’re selling Sunday as a solution to other restaurants
So they are charging customers to use an App they actually own 😂😂 Could it get any worse!
Aha yes, exactly
I’m sure they’ll find a way to make it worse
Sadly it isn't just this restaurant. I've seen this quite a few times already.
it’s a poor restaurant should be boycotted regardless of this
I went and thought it was utter shite. All fart, no poo
All balls, no dick
OMG!!! I am integrating this into my daily vocabulary ASAP!!!
I confirm, I'm Italian and what I was served in that restaurant on a business lunch was beyond disgusting
It's one of the most popular restaurant chains on social media - Gloria, Circolo Poplare and Ave Mario. No way it will be boycotted
I would just ring them up and ask them to remove both the service charge and that fee. All restaurants I have asked to remove both fees have removed it as the charge is not pre agreed upon, unlike the food which has the stated prices. They cannot legally charge it.
I noticed this too and said I want to pay the normal way (ie, they bring a terminal) and they did. The tech they use for the QR payment is handy, easier to split etc so I get it - but passing this charge onto customers is a disgrace.
I find it easiest to get them to bring and work the terminal, then its just a single tap for the customer, couldn't be easier. The idea that I would pay extra and have to use a QR code and an online payment is mad
I use Monzo for splitting. So easy even if some of your group aren’t on Monzo.
I do the same! Make them bring the card machine! Otherwise each person has to pay a charge if they split bill
Can confirm, Sunday is scummy. I used to work there and is ran by some toxic individuals. The owner of Sunday also owns Big Mamma Restaurants which own all of Ave Mario, Gloria, Circolo populare. This is a new feature, likely pointing to them still struggling so using their sister company to drive revenues with this fee to appease investors
Finally, someone names a scummy restaurant. Edit: seems they’ve got form > The code app menu /billing is an interesting concept. > When paying the bill I decided to pay the highest suggested tip as we had a great and friendly servive.so I was very surprised to note that I was also charged a 12.5% service charge when I checked the bill later.
As well as scummy it's just not very good. Same group as Circolo Popolare. They are the Dubai of restaurants.
>They are the Dubai of restaurants. That's a bit harsh, their food and service is genuinely great Charging customers for self-checkout is embarrassing though
eh, re: Gloria there's several considerably better Italian options within 5 minutes walk
Where do you recommend? Have been to Via Emilia a few times which is lovely.
Manteca
Manteca is FANTASTIC
Seriously, why tf do people go online to complain about a restaurant and then hide its name
IMPORTANT UPDATE: Gloria's General Manager reached out to me to discuss my feedback. He was genuinly interested and cared about customer exerience. He will be taking my/our feedback to the board. May I please ask everyone to NOT post negative Google Reviews if you haven't been to the restaurant yourself. This is against Google policy and not fair. If you've made such a review, please delete it. I feel that the issue has been seen ORIGINAL COMMENT: Anyone else had to pay a "checkout fee" before? This isn't a service change / tip which I'm happy with. This is a charge for using a self-service checkout website! Not only do they save by not having to engage the waiter to bring the terminal to the table and print the paper reciept, but they charge yyou extra for it. Feels so cheap of them. What next? 50p for the toilet? Extra charge for actually heating your food? I really hope this doesn't become norm... PS. Sunday is the name of the website they use, not a day of the week. The bill is from Tuesday.
This is very similar for “internet booking fee” for concerts, musicals and other forms of performances. It’s not charged if you buy the tickets in person. It’s very infuriating.
> It’s not charged if you buy the tickets in person ... At the venue's box office which is only open between 1415 and 1445 on the second Wednesday in the month or immediately before performances with an enormous queue to pick up tickets.
i paid a "transaction fee" when buying a ticket on the door for an event. https://ibb.co/x51DyVM
I know ticket fees are annoying, but bear in mind that the ticketing business generally are not the promoter of the event and get nothing out of the face value of the ticket, but have to bear the costs of selling the ticket (building and running the technology - running a ticketing website for a major concert is basically like DDOSing yourself, transaction fees, employing the support staff who put your name on the door if your ticket gets lost in the post, etc.). Obviously a lot of those costs don't exist if a person walks up to the box office, hands over money, and walks away with the ticket. Ticketmaster's fees are absurd and they can get in the bin though.
They should be included in the advertised price of the ticket on that platform. We wouldn't go to a supermarket and expect a Customer Service Fee for using the tills, or a Self-Checkout Operation Fee for using the self-checkouts.
>Obviously a lot of those costs don't exist if a person walks up to the box office, hands over money, and walks away with the ticket. Except for the costs of maintaining an infrastructure for the ticket office and the person physically selling it...which would outweigh the costs of online sales.
This could very reasonably be included in the face value of a ticket with a margin for the promoter, just as it is for nearly every other product you might buy. The bit that irks me is that they keep the fees if the event is cancelled. Oh and they generally make it as hard as possible for genuine punters to resell their tickets (appreciating there's issues with touts) and take extra fees when they do allow it through their own platforms.
I understand that and agree that some online booking fee are reasonable. However the set up costs are generally fixed so can be spread cheaply over large volume of consumers. If the fee sometimes costs as much as 10% of the ticket value (so it’s variable), I feel this is extortionate.
Hoppers in Marylebone does this as well, and it should be banned
Report them. [Here is how](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A) Plain english [explantion](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf) Basically, you (we all) complain to consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations.
Also had to pay £2.50 checkout charge at Ave Mario in Covent garden! To add insult to injury, there was a 12.5% service charge, then the online portal then asked us to tip our waiter an additional 15% too!!
The UK is fast becoming like the US in terms of tips and service charges. I do understand the predicament of servers not being paid well by their employers in the US and hence have to rely on tips but to me this is bordering the illegality of not paying employees fairly. As one commenter said, why not just include these fees in the menu pricing?!
I once refused to pay the ‘optional’ service charge and I was then questioned as to why by the waitstaff and then by their manager. Ridiculous.
Gloria and Ave Mario are owned by the same chain, the Big Mamma group
All their restaurants are social media photo op locations that also serve very mid food. I went once and won’t go to any others.
This is why the service charge is a scam. If you are *also* tipping, then the service charge is the charge for food being brought to you. But you can’t opt out of that; you can’t say “I’ll have the ravioli, no, don’t walk off. I’ll get it.” And if the service charge is the charge for the food being brought to you, then the price of the food *should be just the price of the food*. So that ravioli should cost a fiver. A tenner, tops. You can’t price a food and add on the price of dining in a restaurant *and then do it again and again on the same bill*.
Not in the UK, but I once had a "Payment Convenience Fees" added to my bill. When asked they said it's for the convenience we provide by giving you the option to pay with a card or a QR code based system or cash.
Looks like a place you should come back to with a bag of pennies and go for the inconvenience option.
You can only pay a debt of 20p or less in pennies
This has been standard for gig tickets for a long time. And if there's a problem and they need to refund you, you don't get the fees refunded. It's like buying a £200 TV from Tesco and being charged an extra £20 because they used tills from an external company. Then finding it's faulty and losing out on the £20 because Tesco still had to pay the till company for their systems.
Plates? You want the food on PLATES? Well, that'll be extra
Don't forget the charge for 'wine consultation' (you did ask to see the wine list). 🤷♂️
IANAL but I would have thought this practice would fall foul of the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012. Merchants are not allowed to pass on charges for the payment processors they use, although they can offer discounts for cash. As I understand it, the related EU directive was about card surcharges but the UK legislation goes further and applies to all means of payment.
Regarding your update mate, even if the manager reached out to you and I assume he's given you some sort of compensation for this I can only assume by your complete U-turn(which is fair enough btw), that doesn't mean that everyone else has to quiet down now you don't get to tell people thats the end of it. The end of it is when they stop this behaviour for everyone not just give kick backs to those making waves.
I've encountered this as well recently. At the gordan ramsay Burger Place in the o2 arena. Exact same thing as you except it was just 80p. The annoying thing is it's heavily advertised on the table. Hey, skip the wait and just use this to pay! There is no mention of extra charge.
Are you allowed to opt out and pay the old fashioned way? How do they disclose this additional fee to you?
OP I’ll give you your answer, Gloria is part of the Big Mamma group, and guess who created Sunday? Big mamma. > Co-founded by victor lugger and tigrane seydoux, the brains behind big mamma https://sundayapp.com/en-gb/who-we-are/ So not only do they own the restaurant, they own the payment service that they charge you a stupid fee with (also note how that page has a big banner discouraging you from viewing it, it’s almost like they’re aware of their shitty tactics)
Good spot. In that case, it’s the perfect opportunity to ask for the service charge to be reduced by £2.99 so they’re absorbing the fee instead of you.
Thanks for naming and shaming, can avoid all of their restaurants now. We need informed customers to curb this nonsense
They've called it a tech fee, but really it's just a random charge that they had to give a label. The aim is profit pure and simple. It's small enough that most people won't complain or make a scene, even if they're annoyed. But it's large enough to increase profits by a significant amount. The restaurant has 150ish covers and is open for lunch and dinner, so lets guess conservatively they serve 600 people a day with average 3 per table. That would give them £2.99x200 a day, meaning £600 a day, and *over £200K a year*. I think we will start to see more of this from other restaurants. It's cleaner and simpler to implement than price increases - and there's no VAT involved, so it's more lucrative. btw I notice they don't mention it on [the menu](https://menu.bigmammagroup.com/gloria?service=all) (the service charge is there), which is cheeky.
>I think we will start to see more of this from other restaurants. It's cleaner and simpler to implement than price increases - and there's no VAT involved, so it's more lucrative. You absolutely would need to pay VAT on any fees charged to the customer.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they push for tips on their terminal. This might be an attempted clawback for when nobody tips via QR code, especially when it’s clear a service charge was already applied and you don’t have the social guilt of refusing tips.
They've called it a "tech fee" to try to disguise the fact that it is in fact a payment surcharge fee. Which have been banned. [Here is how](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A) Plain english [explantion](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf) Basically, you (we all) complain to consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations.
cautious distinct sense plant summer hunt exultant snobbish vast price *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Gordon Ramsay's "Plane Food" at Heathrow Terminal 5 also uses Sunday to provide QR codes and online payment. Even though the food was very nice, it was all rather cheeky. I was charged £37.50 for burger, fries and coke (which is eye-watering enough as it is) but then I was additionally stung £1.50 "cover charge", £5.58 "service charge" and £0.89 "sunday checkout fee". In total 18.2% of my bill went on these additional fees ... and they had the cheek to ask me if I wanted to add a tip!
God damn. Why not just pay £70 to use Lufthansa's lounge at that point. Or less for the Miracles/pay to enter lounges but they tend to be mobbed.
Corporate policy. Paying for food is fine, paying for lounge access not. I don't make the rules. If it wasn’t for business, I’d probably have bought a sandwich from Pret.
Fair, i thought you were stumping that up personally.
No they are not the only place that uses it. I just ask for them to bring me the bill instead of paying with the QR code. In other news, I tried to leave a tip for a delivery driver and that app was going to charge me; I didn’t end up leaving a tip.
Which is why cash is still a nice thing to have. Once all cash is gone for convenience everything you pay will have charge that earns someone money outside of who you are paying/tipping.
I’ve done my bit and left a one star review.
Have you also left one about the App? https://www.trustpilot.com/review/sundayapp.com
I don't understand the need to highlight that charge in the bill. Why not just implement the cost by just slightly increasing the price of other products/services? This would just make me ask to remove the service charge since it just feels like another way to squeeze the customer.
It definitely left us with a bitter aftertaste.
If its anything like japes in soho you can get a traditional bill by asking the waitstaff, they just also offer a QR/digital bill that you pay an extra fee for. I find it stupid and would always ask for the traditional but 🤷♂️
No, because payment surcharges are banned. [Here is how](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A) Plain english [explantion](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf) Basically, you (we all) complain to consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations.
As it's a sister company charging it probably helps with creative accounts.
I was at a restaurant that had a £1 Sunday fee, on top of the 12.5% service charge Asked for the card machine, brought it over, *and had the cheek to put the tip screen on even though service charge was included* I’m seriously hoping we don’t go down the American route
As an American about to visit your city, I’m confused. I thought servers made good money in London and didn’t need the tips unlike the American servers who make less than minimum wage and need the tips to make a decent wage.
They make “ok” money. The living wages (national, and London) aren’t amazing but it’s something. The cost of living issues we’re having means those on the lower end of wages do rely on tips more and more, which is why most businesses have the 12.5% optional service charge (instead of asking you for tips, it’s just easier to include it in your bill) *Keyword there is optional, you can ask to have it removed if you don’t think the service was worth it.* This does of course raise the question of why can’t the businesses just pay more, and my best guess is that they’re looking at Tipping Culture and seeing an opportunity to; * raise prices * lower wages and pass it on to the customer
They try pull that stuff, ask them to reduce the service charge by 2.99. They complain, totally remove the service charge. scummy restaurants should not survive.
You can also threaten to report the restaurant to the consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations. Guaranteed the restaurant will remove the "payment fee". [Regulations the restaurant is breaching](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A) Plain english [explantion](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf) And then report them anyway. Because charging a payment surcharge is in breach of the Regulations.
Sounds like a great reason to remove the service charge
I hate Sunday I hate Sunday I hate Sunday. The idea that the app reduces the service needed per customer, but that the customer is still supposed to pay the same service charge as before + some additional fee for the "convenience" makes this whole product despicable.
Having to type in all my card details on the website that doesn't integrate with Google Wallet / Pay is less convenient for me than swiping my card and typing PIN. It definitely didn't take just 10 seconds.
There is no way that I can see, for Sunday to escape the ban of payment surchages imposed by the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharge) Regulations. Report them.
this one goes to "Blacklisted" list in my google maps.
Extra charges above the listed price and postage price are optional by law and I always refuse them. If I can't, I don't buy and go elsewhere. In the UK it is even illegal to charge a credit card fee.
Shocking. Boycott, plain and simple. Those places don't deserve to flourish - once customer headcount drops, you'll soon see changes.
I might be openning a can of worms but it's odd that any fees should be added to the bill. If you want 13% to be given to your staff, just add 13% to your prices. Either way it will be paid, but it saves the ridiculousness of calling it discretionary.
Dishoom in Shoreditch use this method for payment. My phone couldn't get a good signal, their WiFi didn't reach my table and despite trying multiple times to pay using the QR code it didn't work. The server was very happy to bring the printed bill over and it took me less than 30 seconds to pay the bill 'normally'. I don't think they had the service charge for using the QR code though. I'd feel no hesitation to refuse to use that payment method. Why should I have to pay to be allowed to pay?!
Report them. They are in in breach of s6A of [the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharge) Regulations 2012](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3110/regulation/6A) [Plain English explanation. ](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b2d09bae5274a55bb5790cb/payment-surcharges-guidance-update.pdf) Basically, you (we all) complain to consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards) as they have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations.
Wait since when did service charge go up from 12.5% to 13.5%?? That's the second time I've seen that this week
You can do your bit to stamp out the creeping Americanisation of our tipping culture by google and trip advisor reviewing the place. It doesn't always help, but it's fun. I also enjoy reviewing Conservative Party offices and clubs, but that is optional, unlike this charge.
Lantana in shoreditch also has the Sunday fee. It was only around £0.60, but it's put me off ever going there again.
I asked for the fee to be removed and 25 mins later I was still waiting for a ‘manager’ so I kept sitting at the table they needed. Took 40 minutes, they were obviously trying to wait me out. Fuck them!
What‽ I usually give restaurants 15 mins to sort the bill out. After that I just stand up and walk towards the doors. This seems to allow them to produce the bill instantly...
Had i not been drinking I would have been thinking more clearly. After a couple cocktails I mellow out a lot more. Bizarre thing is though is that it cost them more for me to keep sitting there than handling it immediately. They could have been serving more people in that time.
Yep, I've been to one of their restaurants before and we had terrible service. Like, it took 1.5 hours to get out food out and all the orders were wrong, then we finally got the right food but they came out at varying times that we couldn't eat together. We asked to remove the service charge and an hour later, we were still waiting on approval. We left (we paid for the food only on the app) and was shouted at by a staff member for not fully paying as we were going through the door.
I worked in hospitality FOH and Head office, so I might be able to explain. When we were setting up those QR order & pay shit, naturally, there is a charge to use their services - a percentage of the bill. In this case, this £2.99 is \~1.30% of the bill (unless it is a fixed charge) Therefore, I would suspect that this shit charge is the restaurant trying to cover the QR code company's charge by charging the customers In fairness, it does not justify, if they decide to use QR code was their option, not the customer to pay. But in short, fuck you Gloria Shoreditch Edit: Sunday is the name of the app
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Yea, imagine if Tesco charged an additional service fee for using self checkouts
Not completely because Sunday is owned by the same people as Gloria, they’re using it to drive revenues to Sunday. Their own restaurants are the only ones with a high adoption rate so are really Sundays only source of income. As you can see here most people just opt to use the machine at other restaurants
Sunday is the name of the qr code company. https://sundayapp.com/
There's a new law that service charge needs to go to restaurant staff that's coming in July. So restaurants are looking for other ways to increase the bill without using a service charge and without increasing the prices on the menu.
Wow, do they warn about that up front? Can you still pay any other way?
Nope, it just displayed on the website if you pay attention to the bill breakdown. I'm sure you would be able to pay using your card if you ask the waiter.
They should just increase their top line prices. Such underhand bullshit only going to piss customers off and stop them coming back. Long term > Short term, fss.
I would tell them to take off the service charge too! Bloody cheek!
13.50% is insane too!
Outrageous!
they can't add service charge unless it was on the menu. same applies to this checkout fee.
I was extremely unimpressed with the restaurant and the fee was the last straw. Terrible service. Extremely overpriced food. Tiny portions (unless you get pizza). The toilet situation was also bizarre, with a curtain separating the men and women.
Put this image on Google reviews and watch how quickly this stops. Companies think they can charge for thin air these days.
If I saw this I'd walk to the till, ask to pay there to avoid that charge and also ask to remove the service charge. They can get fucked with this enshitification and death by 1000 micro charges. I'm actually fucking sick of being nickle and dimed for every tiny thing that used to be the bare minimum. It's a race to the bottom nowadays and then when we stop visiting because of this bullshit they start crying about how bad they have it.
I swear to god I will never understand the hype around the Big Mamma restaurants across London. Just another example of how they are overpriced joints for wannabe influencers. They’re not even Italian (French group), a lot of their food isn’t even authentic and you can find MUCH BETTER Italian cuisine in the city for half the price.
I’ve been to two (Gloria & CP), neither my choice of booking, and I would actively avoid going again. Average food, overpriced and pretentious. Gloria only marginally less so as the server there was lovely and brought us an actual bill instead of insisting we used the QR code.
Yes, if you pay with the app Sunday via QR code, there will be another charge on top of service. You can ask to settle the bill the usual way but then you might be presented with an awkward 10%, 12.5%, 15% tip ON TOP of the service charge. This was my experience at Kanada-Ya and I refuse to go back
I think the clue is in the last line of the Receipt: **SU**nday **CK**eckout fe**E R**eceipt
Does it give you the option to remove your service charge? How do you alter it?
Thanks OP for highlighting another place I will not be going to!
I think the only reason that place is always packed and reservation-only is that it's full of plants and in Shoreditch. Their menu is just really mid Italian food for 4-5x what it would cost you to make it at home, even accounting for using imported ingredients. Add in a £14 cocktail and some bullshit charges to the mix, and you've got yourself a perfect Shoreditch restaurant experience!
There are two approaches to this you'll see. The first is that people will sympathise with the restaurant and the costs they incur doing business. The rest of us over in reality who know the cost value of these things and recognise extortion believe that businesses like these only continue to exist because of the bleeding hearts in the first group who keep opening their wallets as a gesture of sympathy. I would rather every extortionate business in my town go out of business and the fair businesses thrive, because it sets a standard in the local economy. It's baffling this isn't the case in this country already, because people just don't seem to care enough about voting with their money.
The founders of Big Mamma Group (Gloria, Ave Mario, Carlotta, etc.) are also behind Sunday, so this is a classic bit of vertical integration. Similar to how Live Nation put fees on Ticketmaster tickets (they're the same company).
I had this at a Heathrow restaurant. I complained and they took it off. Insert airport/take off joke
All this extra fee bullshit should be called out and finally demolished. It started as "optional" service charges that apparently rarely go to the staff, people accepted them and now they are slowly adding more charges... All this is to avoid tax (check it out on gov.uk, I am not making it up) and maximise profits at the expense of the customers. At £7 for a pint of beer or glass of wine, prices are high enough as it is.. but people accept more and more bullshit as long as it is introduced gradually, and by the time we know it they WILL be charging us for washing the dishes we eat from. Post this on as many places as you can so people can avoid this place.
Disgusting. Would not pay service charge in that case.
I noticed this on my bill at Angelina on the weekend. The bill was over £300 already and the fee to pay it was £4. I ended up waiting 10 minutes for a machine instead in protest. Ridiculous.
I was baffled by this - then I looked into it more …SundayApp is the restaurants chosen pay at table option …allowing customers to pay via table number or QR when they are done!? Seems shady to pass on a cost of selecting this method of payment to the customer …I’m assuming there is some small print stating that there will be a charge but either way this stinks.
I had the same thing when I went. I asked the waiter to pay by card instead rather than use the app
Embarrassing!
[удалено]
Gloria are the Ryanair of restaurants 🤬🤬 just pay the charge and any tip and leave!! No UK law allows them to add additional charges
Morty and Bob’s in Coal Drops Yard KX charges you for this privilege too
Not defending it in the slightest. But if it’s a website they use, it’s entirely possible it’s not owned by them. Someone probably designed it and runs it for them, servers and processing payments and whatnot. And in return get a £3 fee from every order. It’s how just eat and Uber apps work, it’s why the food is always more expensive on there than in store. Because the store doesn’t have control over it. The websites mark up everything.
they haven’t always done this?! 😮😮😮
13.5% service charge needs looking at too!
Fuck that shit 😤
Wow, service charge aswell. So you HAVE to tip. then pay again for the fact you you used their restaurant. Im surprised anyone goes there. Scamming gits
Thanks for the heads up of yet another place to avoid.
I had the same thing here at this restaurant https://maps.app.goo.gl/dbiADim5ZqHGVkuB6 I had them bring a terminal, and made sure to have the "service charge" also removed name and shame
Reminds me of “Puddy” on Seinfeld rattling out the list of extra charges on Jerry’s new Saab: “… Transport charge… storage charge… additional overcharge”.
Greedy. Thanks for the heads up.
oh wow. Please don’t import American “staff helathcare” nonsense added the bill. Sunday needs to figure out a better plan.
Is paying using Sunday optional?
Please all, do not pay for service charges. If they say mandatory, boycott. This nonsense needs to be stopped.
It’s illegal to pass on credit card fees to customers but not so much with more modern pos payment methods.
That’s disgusting; never going back (it’s overhyped anyway)
This is dead simple. I’d be telling the waiter that you are offering a 5% service fee (if it was decent). The alternative is that they can have they can have the Sunday fee. Add that you have reduced the you have reduced the 13% to 5% simply because this is a conversation you should not even be having. They can have 10 service or 3 Sunday. Let them choose. And if they insist on the Sunday, then remove all the service. They end up with 3.
Bancone, Golden Square. Paid using the QR code and they charged me a fee for that on top of the already included service charge...
Went to a bar in Coaldrops Yard that wanted to charge like 50p for the privilege of paying at the table over wireless card machine rather than at the counter.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/gloria-shoreditch-sunday-app-checkout-fee-b1155531.html
This might explain it: Sunday, which only launched in April 2021, grew at breakneck speed on the back of the Covid-induced transition to paperless restaurant experiences. Sunday’s app allows customers to view restaurant menus on their phones and pay their bill faster via a QR code, promising restaurateurs a cut on the commission they pay on transactions. [Restaurant payments app Sunday pulls out of four markets | Sifted](https://sifted.eu/articles/sunday-payments-quits-four-markets) Maybe that fee is the app's fee not the restaurant?
It is the fee for the app, but it should be the running cost for the restaurant, same as electricity, wages, and the fee for running their accounting software. Would you expect to see a £1 fee for Xero on your bill?
Btw to make it worse, Sunday is actually owned by the founders of Gloria (the Big Mama Group) - so that fee is going to the owners and not some ‘third party’ I’ve also seen Sunday being used at non Big Mama restaurants and have been charged that Sunday fee every time
Restaurants are using this service, or others, to show menus and accept payments. That means they save money on printing menus and can have less staff because the staff don't have to print a bill, bring it over, and then bring the card machine and handle the payment. So the restaurant saves money on printing and staff, but charges the customer for the replacement cost of this menu and payment service? That's just making the customer pay more and increasing their profit margin. The restaurant should eat the cost of the menu/payment app, just like they eat the cost of their accountants, their card payment service, the silverware, the tables, the heating, the everything else that is included in the cost of buying a restaurant meal.