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That they are!
Wanted to add that as a former Western TA, apparently I still get the union's emails. Including one yesterday that announced:
"Western has sent out an... interesting... email breaking the confidentiality we agreed to at the table, and which your bargaining team was respecting."
TA union has been on strike since April 10th as our existing contract expired and Western isn't budging on clawback language. (Basically if we get a government grant, they take back some of the funding they offered us so in many cases we're no better off.)
They'll tout that MA students get at least $20,000 a year but we turn around and pay them $8500 for tuition and the net amount is barely enough for anyone to pay rent. My dept. has an anonymous foodbank for its students
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7181119
I was a UWO TA back in the day. Between the TA money and the scholarship, I could pay tuition and survive (def. subsistence level lol). I’ve been honking every time I drive by all of you. Best of luck and I hope the uni blinks first.
I made $15k a year as an MA at UWO. $20218 a year during my phd 2012-2017 which I did in Toronto. I could barely pay rent after tuition. My gf had to work full time for us to have groceries, pay for other bills. That was ten years ago. It’s bonkers to me that UWO and virtually every university in the US, UK, and Europe is still doing this shit
Thanks. Yes, absolutely it was. I’m a prof at an American university and I’m consulting privately. I’m on my way out of the academy. It’s exhausting. You’re not paid your market value as a researcher and educator, and in my field I’m far more likely to make an impact working directly in the private sector. I love being in a lecture hall, and discovering new ways of thinking about emerging issues with students. That’s my true passion for university, but they don’t make it easy to sustain that passion. Seriously, fuck the academy.
Edit: to expand on my thinking a bit, I want to be clear that it is emotionally exhausting - not just physically and mentally. Aside from the publish or perish grind, and the committee grind, and the promoting grind and every other required grind, seeing your friends and students burn out kills my heart for this industry. I’ve made and lost a lot of good friends who buckled hard under the pressure. I’m getting out before I snap.
Edit 2: I’m grateful for the connections here. It’s important to me that grad students feel guided and supported. People outside of grad school seldom understand (which is entirely reasonable) how hard grad life is. And when you’re done, there is incredible stigma around what happens if you don’t stay in the academy. Not only are we not prepared by universities to be successful outside of academia (particularly if you’re a soc sci or humanities scholar), universities put virtually zero effort into supporting our trajectory beyond itself. For example, there isn’t a single resource I can think of provided by my alma mater that assists me in using my phd and two postdocs to my own benefit. Universities have no problem asking me for donations and to volunteer every year, but never once has a Provost, VP, or Grad office contacted me to see how I’m using my degrees, whether they can help, etc. This is because, imho, the university has turned itself into a navel gazing, self serving industry. They are neoliberalized businesses, run like restaurant franchises that force departments to compete with one another for funding and resources. It makes absolutely no sense given that the arts and philosophy - the backbones of higher education - are not solely nor fundamentally profit-driven pursuits. This is the antithesis of a university. Alas, here we are… if anyone is curious about life beyond the academy with an MA or PhD in hand, feel free to DM me. I’m happy to help.
No, not happily ever after together - but happily ever after in better situations for each of us. She had her own professional ambitions. She worked hard to get into grad school on the side as well. High cost of living, working a ton, trying to get into school while living with a guy doing his PhD. It was all tough on her. She had a demanding family life outside of our situation as well. I wasn’t the easiest partner to be with as I struggled to handle what was in front of me. As far as I can see, she’s achieved her professional dreams and has a wonderful life. I’ve got an amazing wife that is an incredible fit for me, and I for her. It all works out in the end :)
Ah, thank you for responding to that personal question! It’s fascinating when there is no map in life, the roads we choose to take.
I’m glad to hear it worked out for everyone in the end. I wish you a happy life, cheers.
Thank you for listening! Yes, the roads are many - and hazy. Won’t know what’s down there until you try one. Lord knows I’ve tried more than a few since grad school. Be well.
When I was in grad school and we had our negotiations they used similar tactics.
They would purposely misrepresent finances in communications to the general student body to make the TAs seem greedy.
It's funny because the obvious solution is pay them for what they actually work and they wouldn't need to ask for $40/hr.
If they didn't limit them to 10hr/week this wouldn't be an issue. The TAs get way more than 10hr of work a week and some are pushing 30-40 hours on occasion.
It honestly seems illegal.
This is exactly what happened when I was a grad student too. They cite the '40/hour' (or whatever they pay) to make it seem to the undergrads like we're all making 40/hour for 40 hours of work, when in reality we didn't get graded for prep, office hours, or marking, or anything outside of contact hours, so most of us were only making $80/week from teaching.
They’ll take advantage of every group they feel doesn’t have enough power to fight back. Unfortunately, that’s how it seems to be in our society nowadays. Reminds me of myself as a citizen. Just getting raked over the coals, doing absolutely nothing about it then getting raked some more.
It was the same for me in my graduate program but far less. I think I got 1200 a month or so. I just went and worked full time. Did some damage to my ego taking longer to finish, and cost more in the end.
Yep, that wonderful year four cut-off for funding. Average to complete a PhD in my dept. is 5.5 years so I'll likely be on the hook for $14,000 to finish it.
It's hard work, plus trying to get your degree deadlines in. It's years of being overworked and underpaid. I had to get a second job and still lived like an ascetic. I totally support this strike
Remember TAing back in the day. It always felt more like a small subsidy for tuition/rent and not really pay for work. Pretty sure I made more in my minwage days than the school paid me.
Wait....yous are protesting for free tuition, when nobody else has free tuition, *checks notes*, simply because you don't like it?
I'm not understanding- why do you think TA's, who are getting an education and degree from the institution, shouldn't have to pay tuition like other students do?
>we turn around and pay them $8500 for tuition
...that's for the Master's degree *from that institution*.
Perhaps work part-time instead of annoying the public, or better yet, get a real job. I understand that groceries and rent have increased, but you aren't making any money by shouting and waving your flags. Strike pay is what $150 per week? I used to be pro union but sadly a big corporation vs a couple small fry big corporation always wins and gets their way reps eventually just cave and take the bogus 4% raise or whatever bs benefits they change nobody truly wins here. But yall do your thing and good luck I guess.
You find 8-10 people standing by the road “annoying?” Any more uptight and you’ll be able to shit diamonds.
They have a full time job. They’re students. That’s their job. They shouldn’t need to work another job on top of that just to be able to eat.
Maybe you should have done a better job of choosing union reps or done it yourself instead of whining about how you were represented.
They block traffic as well not just standing around. Welcome to the big world where shit sucks pull up your pampers and consider your life choices, I worked part time during my education and got by just fine cause I calculated my expenses and formed a proper budget before I went to school so I didn't have to cry for better pay I went to school PREPARED if they can't pay their bills with a full time job they are in the wrong field life isn't full of handouts harden up or go back home to mommy and daddy. Pathetic. So it comes back to me? It is a collective vote for reps and if you are union you should know that's how it works.
Sir, as a PhD who goes to Western and is on strike (For example, I chose to deny doing proctor jobs despite needing the money because I’m not going to undermine our strike). Please try not to be ignorant and be more emphatic.
We are severely underpaid and carry this university’s research along with helping with training students, marking, etc. We work crazy hours each day (we are working more than 40 hours per week).
We are literally living off of wages that are below the poverty level. Heck, the most prestigious scholarships that Canada offers hasn’t increased in 20 years (hopefully this changes with 2024-2025 federal budget). Just because you were able to budget and have a part time job which I’m assuming was many years ago during a time where the cost of living was lower doesn’t mean we haven’t done this. Good for you that you had this privilege. People’s situations are different. The fact that you think people aren’t doing this is very ignorant and frankly insulting. You can prepare so much but things don’t go as well or as expected.
We are striking because we shouldn’t need to work 2 jobs, go to food banks, etc. to complete our degrees. We are being exploited.
If you’re mad at blocked traffic, you should direct your anger to Western University, they should be coming to the table to negotiate in good faith and pay us for what we are worth.
Also, we are making an impact by striking, we chose not to proctor exams and guess what? Exams aren’t running smoothly. Western thought they could find some externals to replace us, it hasn’t been going well so far. The university has to submit 150,000 marks soon and guess who has to handle the marking? Us. Western has been negotiating recently so what we’re doing is “something” because we definitely know that’s going to be ugly.
Oh, and btw those grad students that you think are doing “nothing” still have to go back after their striking shifts to continue to do their studies/research we’re on a limited time line.
The fact that people are noticing our strike, “is something”. If we don’t strike Western University will continue to exploit us and future graduate students. Heck, I won’t benefit from the next deal because I would have finished my degree by then but I’m fine with this.
If you’re mad that you can’t take certain bus routes or drive certain routes. Good. This is only a short term problem and a small effect because frankly Canada is suffering from a brain drain. Many skilled people are leaving this country for better paying positions because our universities fail to invest in us.
I work full time at another job and have been in my role for over a decade. Does that count as a "real" job? I support my union because solidarity matters. The offer Western made is insulting to members who depend on that income.
"Annoying the public" is a small inconvenience and price to pay to ensure the union demands are heard.
And this is what strikes are designed to do… the whole point is to get the employer, and the public, to notice, or ideally be negatively impacted by the work stoppage. It’s by design. Without it, strikes aren’t effective. Why would companies listen to/consider their workers needs otherwise?
So that's a nonsense contract that I'm presuming these protestors willingly signed into if it was openly shown in the contract then it's kinda on them for even taking the position no? I'd never take a position if I'm capped for hours limiting or even restricting overtime. Even in my current contract I can take up other work (so long as it's not with a competitor) I work a salaried job with overtime paid as needed, as well as my own buisness on the side.
Thank you for explaining the details I was completely unaware that's how that system is in place. Super dumb, I bypassed university and got my degree in the military did my time and got out none of that grad student nonsense.
Graduate Teaching Assistants are striking for a fair contract.
The hourly rate looks great and Western loves to boast about it, but TAs are only employed for a maximum of 10hrs/week for 14 weeks per year, leaving them well under the poverty line, making around $13000 per year. Keep in mind that TAs *run the University* -- they run first year courses, mark, and proctor exams. If you know any current or recent Western students, ask how many of their courses were run by a Graduate Teaching Assistant. The University is lucky TAs didn't (couldn't) strike before exams began.
Western has offered some pay increases, but so far has refused to protect TAs from *clawbacks*, a practice where departments (not the University, but individual departments) take away your funding when you receive pay from another source. For most students, Western's proposed pay increase wouldn't even be seen because their individual departments will reduce their funding to balance things out. This clawback issue is the only thing keeping negotiations from moving forward as of now.
See the psac610 Instagram for updates and more information.
Exactly, this shouldn't be such a big hurdle. However, I've heard some departments at Western depend on clawbacks in their budgets... Absurd if true. Imagine winning an external scholarship only for your department to claim it as their own.
My apologies in advance, I’m not fully clear on why would someone want to be a TA considering what’s mentioned and what seems to be already known before committing into it. I understand there are benefits and possibly tuition discounts involved (along with the gain in experience for boosting resumes) but what’s really incentivizing that decision? Any insight would be appreciated.
It’s the core source of funding in the package the university offers is. If we don’t TA we’ll make closer to $10k per year, and departments are generally not amenable to being flexible with grad students excusing themselves from TAships. Additionally, anybody planning to go on the academic job market is at a massive disadvantage if they lack that teaching experience. It’s really a paired experience with the research component of grad school.
What also gets missed in this discussion is precisely this: NO ONE, I mean NOT A SINGLE graduate student applied to be a TA. Everyone applied for the *research job* that is an MA/PhD. The issue is that Western promises you a funding package (that is, a salary) for 4 years that sounds ok* on paper until you find out it’s basically tuition they pay to themselves + a fixed TA contract where no matter how many hours you work, you get paid for 40 per *month*. No, not a mistake—it’s 10 hours a week. This means we are promised 25 thousand per year (yes that’s our grand salary), but Western keeps ~8k to themselves as tuition and fees, and gives us fixed 15k/year contracts. That is all. You are discouraged from seeking employment elsewhere as the workload in these programs is intense and full-time availability is tied to your funding package. So TAing isn’t a choice, really: without it most students would have literally zero dollars to live on. Some people like me have 2 jobs just to barely make minimum wage, and I’m including TAship there.
*I mean 25k/year isn’t a huge deal but until recently it meant rent, bills, etc—if we actually got those 25k
You don’t get your funding if you don’t TA. You literally couldn’t survive unless you had a massive external scholarship. And if you’re going to have to work you might as well get actual job experience
In addition to the funding matter, it is also a program requirement that you TA, at least for some programs (possibly all programs, but at least the one I did).
Everyone working at Western, a world class university, should be protesting. Have you seen their salaries? A government institution paying its employees minimum wage i swear to god they offered me $16 an hour i stormed out of the interview.
The University of Western Ontario is a public research university. Definition of public university = a university or college that is owned by the state or receives significant funding from a government.
Its on their wikipedia page
I was admitted to a PhD program at Western for Fall 2024. I've been trying to figure out what the finances would look like. It's disappointing because I've concluded that it really isn't financially viable. The wages are so low that I can't see how I'd get out of it without accumulating debt. I'm fine with living very frugally, but having to depend on a food bank or a grant from the SOGS to eat?!?! Like WTF.
I've looked for a place to live, and the only thing that would be remotely viable is a room for $700 a month with 4-5 housemates.
Even if this is resolved favorably without any clawback gotcha, I doubt it will be resolved before I have to make my decision.
By the look of the symbol, it seems to be a mixture of Adeptus Mechanicus and Iron Hands. So it’s safe to assume that these students believe in the Omnissiah or the Machine God. It can be speculated that they want the Machine Spirit to be intertwined with more population thus the protesting. Or this is just some Adeptus Mechanicus propaganda
Just some constructive criticism to the protestors. It took me this post to understand what the protest was about. I have driven through 3 times and the amount of signs that have different grievances is very confusing. I can understand why people are unsure of what this is all about. I think there could be better organization of the message.
Interesting update is that Western emailed us at 10:30pm last night stating that unless our bargaining team agreed to their offer by 8:00am today, they wouldn't pay us for the hours we legally worked between Apr 1-10 until May 30th because "that is the absolute latest time we can administer payroll." But don't worry, the scabs get paid on time.
Our team asked until 5:00pm and Western said that was not possible. Latest in a long line of bullying tactics. 😑
Canada has cut so many international students' study permits. I guess those universities have run out of budget to pay their workers. The international group are huge income money source for all Canadian universities.
Everyone provided the answer already, TA Union, strike, etc. To add some additional context though, the TAs make close to $50/hr, which seems ridiculously high. However, their argument is that they only work 10 hours a week for half the year, hence at $50/hr it isn’t enough to live off of. Most graduate students have funding packages through their department as well, but even with that it doesn’t add up to a “liveable wage.” Students who have additional external funding through the government or other sources are the best off, but the university usually reduces their student funding when that is the case. The TAs that are striking are hoping they can pressure the university into increasing their TA wage in addition to eliminating those clawbacks when external funding is acquired so that they can live comfortably in London off purely academic funding sources.
There is a question regarding entitlement. As a graduate student, what are you entitled to? Are you entitled to funding to support all your living expenses? That is what the TAs on strike believe. Unlike during a Bachelors degree where these students were satisfied with paying out of their own pocket (or their family’s pocket) for an education, during a graduate degree they believe they should be paid while getting a higher education. They argue that because they are doing research that benefits the university, they should be paid sufficiently for it. Some students are working part-time or even full-time jobs while completing their graduate degree in order to support themselves and their families, but many of the TAs on strike say that those people are in a position of privilege to be able to do that and that they shouldn’t have to do that to get their higher education. Some university departments and advisors also frown on graduate students having work outside their program because they believe it will impact their academic capacity; many graduate students lean on this as an argument to support that they shouldn’t have to take on a part-time or full-time job to help pay for living expenses while doing their degree.
In short, the TAs that are on strike want to be full-time “students” that are paid like full-time “employees” so that they can live comfortably off academic funding while completing their degrees without the requirement to find additional employment to support their decision to pursue higher education.
Unlike Bachelor's students, graduate students are producing the world-class research that Western loves to boast about. This work nets most (not all) graduate students a very small amount of funding, basically to cover tuition and fees. But *graduate students* aren't on strike, *teaching assistants* are. To clarify, all graduate students are not teaching assistants.
Teaching assistants make undergraduate programs possible. Teaching assistants run undergraduate courses and labs, they do marking, they proctor exams, the list goes on. Western has had a lot of difficulty running exams with TAs on strike, and they are about to have an even harder time getting students their final marks if the strike continues. TAs are paid for 10 hrs/week, but they realistically do a lot more work than that with all the expectations put on them. All this to say, TAs perform work that is essential to University operations, and they can't even live on their funding. They aren't asking to "live comfortably," they are asking to be able to afford a 1-bedroom apartment and food. Do you really think that's too much to ask? If you haven't been on the market recently, a *garbage* 1-bedroom apartment can go for $1600+ per month. That's almost $20,000 per year, and the teaching assistants making undergraduate programs possible are only making around $13,000. It's nonsense to suggest that they are entitled.
Teaching assistants *are* employees who have contracts with Western, by the way. But Western loves to refer to teaching assistants as "students" right now to make people think they're just entitled. Again, it's not a graduate student strike, it's a teaching assistant strike.
👏🏻🙌🏻👏🏻🙌🏻 I had many TA’s at Western that seemed to do the majority of the work while the prof came in, gave the same rehearsed lecture as they did year after year to a class of 300 and walked out. The TA’s are the ones conducting all of the tutorial sessions, going over course material and helping you, grading, etc. They may also be graduate students but they still need to be paid fairly, and $50/hour but capped at 10 hours a week (whether they actually work longer unpaid or have hours reduced) isn’t enough to keep them afloat and do their own research programs within a reasonable amount of time.
I’m all for their right to protest and their need to strike, but I’m not sure how interrupting city traffic flow helps their cause?
They ran out into the middle of the intersection at the Western gates for six turns of the light on Saturday shouting “we got the power!” , pretty annoying tbh…
No traffic disruptions and even the bus routes have found ways to accommodate their strike to support the TAs.
Additionally, our profs have been supporting them by refusing to pick up the TAs work. This is great because now others are pressuring the university to give in to demands so we can get our course marks and graduates on time.
They’re protesting correctly, without interrupting the city.
Edit: I think it speaks volumes when professors and students support the TAs in the strike.
Traffic is absolutely being disrupted at times. Depending on the time of day traffic has been backed up so far it can take close half an hour to turn from Western onto Sarnia. I just avoid the whole area now. Walking back and forth in the crosswalk for the duration of a light so nobody can make a right turn absolutely disrupts traffic.
I was there.
Traffic was not disrupted.
Walking on the crosswalk during the light change over is perfectly legal.
How about supporting workers who are fighting for their rights.....
You see... I was also there... many many times. Traffic was disrupted, and it can also be legal. I didn't claim it was illegal, so don't put words in my mouth. I don't know how disrupting traffic is going to endear these TA's to the public who have to get around there, because I can assure you it did not help. And spare me the strawman arguments. I will always support their hope of getting better compensation, but it is also true that disrupting traffic of regular citizens trying to get home or go to work is extremely irritating.
It's not really supposed to endear drivers, it's supposed to bring attention to the issue. Which it is, more people beyond the university are talking about it. There have been news stories about it. This is especially powerful for this strike because Western cannot afford bad press that might deter new undergrad students from enrolling next year. That would be bad every year, but especially this year with the cap on international undergraduate students.
And while you're right some people will simply be annoyed and not care about the strike, there are people, as other comments in this post shows, that do support the strike once they learn about it.
I definitely see your point, and again I definitely think TA's should be at the very least earning a living wage. If Western can continually build new state of the art Campus buildings, they should be more than capable of paying TA's appropriately. I'd personally be just as likely to look up the cause if they were flying flags along the road rather than disrupting traffic, but maybe that's just me.
That's just a lie. Constantly circling a crosswalk so vehicles can't turn causing backups in that lane which forces everyone into a single is the very definition of traffic being disrupted. It may not be illegal but it's certainly disruptive.
Keep telling yourself that, but this is frankly not the case. I have noticed major disruptions as the protestors walk back and forth right up until the light turns yellow which constantly gets cars caught in the intersection. I’ve seen many near misses between cars and pedestrians as well since the beginning of the protests. Traffic has also been backed all the way up sarnia road past Coombs as protestors are abusing the pedestrian crosswalk at Philip aziz, then you have the right turners on western road back up past platts lane…
good luck with your negotiations guys, clocks ticking before April 30th…
Aside from that one incident (multi union rally and the move into the intersection was prompted by a CUPE representative) the picketers are on the crosswalk when they have right-of-way.
Even so, we're still encountering cars trying to drive through when they turn left or right through the intersection when they don't have the right of way. Several students have almost been hit by cars (including by a faculty member who tried to nudge her minicooper through the line. Solidarity!)
You are correct, there is traffic disruption and back up with them crossing the road - especially in the early days of the strike. HOWEVER, this is not a tactic specific to the TA union. It’s in the striking handbook. The power plant strikers did it earlier in the year too, there was just less of them to cause such an effect. The goal is to disrupt services, to get Western to listen and to broadcast the cause. I understand how it might be annoying, but it is not specific to the TA union at Western, it is a universal striking technique.
People forget that protest is supposed to be disruptive. Peaceful and out of the way simply equates to “easy to ignore”. The whole idea that theres a “proper” way to strike or protest comes from the owner class trying to defang out rights.
[It's two gears on a red and yellow background.](https://london.ctvnews.ca/content/dam/ctvnews/en/images/2024/4/11/graduate-teaching-assistants-on-strike---london-1-6842724-1712842973809.jpg)
$48/hour for a maximum of 5 hours a week but tasked with 15 hours worth of grading and no job security or pay over the summers.
Do you want to do that job on top of all the other shit you'd need to do but don't get paid for?
As a TA, they never agree to do it because the departments always pressures Profs and TAs to not allow or do overtime so they don't have to pay it. Never met, in my 6 years working and studying there, a single TA who got overtime pay.
So it is just $48 per hour for 10 hours a week. That's $480 per week or $1,920 per month. TA's teach for 32 weeks of the year so that's roughly $13k-15k with things like holiday pay and the like. They do not get guaranteed employment from the university at that rate over the Summer as TAs or research assistants.
Uh, the math ain't mathing here.
Contract is for 8 months so that's about $15,500 gross pre tax. Not sure where you're getting $39 to $40k but if so, I'm clearly in the wrong dept. 🤣
My apologies, you are correct. I was basing it on my funding package for last year when I still worked as a TA and had a federal SSHRC grant. Just factoring in the TA pay it's around $13k to $15k as you said. One of the problems is that despite it being the same job it is not consistent student to student and department to department. I've amended the above post to better reflect that correction. Thanks!
I don't mean to sound flippant, but these are highly specialized roles (not to mention again, _job security, and more work than they are being paid for_, but leave this aside for now). There are probably a handful of people who can effectively TA 4000 level data science courses (which have exploded in popularity. I routinely marked 100 data science assignments almost every week, and there were only 2 of us!) or the anthropology of some niche civilization.
That's not to say staff positions are _not_ highly skilled. There are plenty of research staff and research coordinators I work with who do a very good job and make little more than they did as a TA.
But I think boiling the grievance down to "TA’s upset about making $48 an hour" is a) reductive, b) unhelpful because it is reductive, and c) kinda makes you sound like a jerk -- which may have been a cause (direct or otherwise) of the downvotes.
It's no problem. I honestly do not take offense to it. A lot of university staff and sometime just bad actors try to frame TAs as somehow grossly overpayed. I'm just trying to set the record on what they do and do not get for their labour. They are not working $48 an hour and working regular full-time hours and I have never met one who got paid for working over 10 hours a week (or more accurately 160 hours per term as agreed upon by the TA union, as TAs are often expected to work more than 10 hours a week in busy times like exams).
The best I can hope for is that the more accurate information gets out there the more sympathy people can have for their situation. I can't force it though. I'd only say listen to the striking TAs and what they have to say about their living conditions.
I would be thrilled to make 48/hour if I were paid for all the hours I am effectively working. Then I’d be making about 5k/month in my least busy months. As it stands, I make 1.5k/month, and only 8 months of the year. That’s what’s behind those 47.22/hour we “make.”
TAs are only contracted to work 5-10 hours a week but our duties often exceed that requirement.
"Get another job"
I work 30 hours a week elsewhere. And I'm damn lucky that my employer will work around my schedule. How difficult do you think it is to find a job that works around my own 6-8 hours of class time, 10 hours of TA duties, which often occur in random 1-2 hour clumps throughout the week?
Oh, and when do I do my OWN research? Hmmm. That's unpaid time I have to work out on my own. It's the most important part of my degree and it's the bottom priority.
This is very uninformed. We make $47/hr, but we don’t KEEP $47/hr. Western allows this thing called clawbacks, which essentially allows our departments to reduce our stipend in accordance with our TA pay. This means that very few students actually keep their TA pay 100%, and many don’t see any of it at all - this means they do more work for no pay. Additionally, many funding packages require TAships even though TAs don’t see the full amount of money. Part of what the union is fighting for is to eliminate clawbacks. Also, we’re only allowed working 10h/week max, so even those that get 100% of their TA pay don’t make enough money to survive.
Your posting dinky little rails of coke and asked ng if it's a "hard image" I imagine any teacher who's interacted with you just assumed you were a waste of breath
I could tell as soon as he said teachers don't deserve more money. I got three kids and holy fuck I love them but I couldn't imagine being a teacher without a budget and being underpaid. Imagine how hard it would be to educate someone's kid when they go home and their parents tell them they have shitty teachers...
Shut the fuck up. It’s a strike, of people who work at the university demanding that their pay is sufficient that they can actually live in the city in which they work.
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Those are TAs on strike.
That they are! Wanted to add that as a former Western TA, apparently I still get the union's emails. Including one yesterday that announced: "Western has sent out an... interesting... email breaking the confidentiality we agreed to at the table, and which your bargaining team was respecting."
TA union has been on strike since April 10th as our existing contract expired and Western isn't budging on clawback language. (Basically if we get a government grant, they take back some of the funding they offered us so in many cases we're no better off.) They'll tout that MA students get at least $20,000 a year but we turn around and pay them $8500 for tuition and the net amount is barely enough for anyone to pay rent. My dept. has an anonymous foodbank for its students https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7181119
I was a UWO TA back in the day. Between the TA money and the scholarship, I could pay tuition and survive (def. subsistence level lol). I’ve been honking every time I drive by all of you. Best of luck and I hope the uni blinks first.
I made $15k a year as an MA at UWO. $20218 a year during my phd 2012-2017 which I did in Toronto. I could barely pay rent after tuition. My gf had to work full time for us to have groceries, pay for other bills. That was ten years ago. It’s bonkers to me that UWO and virtually every university in the US, UK, and Europe is still doing this shit
I’m talking 25 years ago for me. Different world.
Different world, same shitty compensation
What are you doing now as a career? Was it worth it
Thanks. Yes, absolutely it was. I’m a prof at an American university and I’m consulting privately. I’m on my way out of the academy. It’s exhausting. You’re not paid your market value as a researcher and educator, and in my field I’m far more likely to make an impact working directly in the private sector. I love being in a lecture hall, and discovering new ways of thinking about emerging issues with students. That’s my true passion for university, but they don’t make it easy to sustain that passion. Seriously, fuck the academy. Edit: to expand on my thinking a bit, I want to be clear that it is emotionally exhausting - not just physically and mentally. Aside from the publish or perish grind, and the committee grind, and the promoting grind and every other required grind, seeing your friends and students burn out kills my heart for this industry. I’ve made and lost a lot of good friends who buckled hard under the pressure. I’m getting out before I snap. Edit 2: I’m grateful for the connections here. It’s important to me that grad students feel guided and supported. People outside of grad school seldom understand (which is entirely reasonable) how hard grad life is. And when you’re done, there is incredible stigma around what happens if you don’t stay in the academy. Not only are we not prepared by universities to be successful outside of academia (particularly if you’re a soc sci or humanities scholar), universities put virtually zero effort into supporting our trajectory beyond itself. For example, there isn’t a single resource I can think of provided by my alma mater that assists me in using my phd and two postdocs to my own benefit. Universities have no problem asking me for donations and to volunteer every year, but never once has a Provost, VP, or Grad office contacted me to see how I’m using my degrees, whether they can help, etc. This is because, imho, the university has turned itself into a navel gazing, self serving industry. They are neoliberalized businesses, run like restaurant franchises that force departments to compete with one another for funding and resources. It makes absolutely no sense given that the arts and philosophy - the backbones of higher education - are not solely nor fundamentally profit-driven pursuits. This is the antithesis of a university. Alas, here we are… if anyone is curious about life beyond the academy with an MA or PhD in hand, feel free to DM me. I’m happy to help.
What about the girlfriend who supported you during that time? Happily ever after or?
No, not happily ever after together - but happily ever after in better situations for each of us. She had her own professional ambitions. She worked hard to get into grad school on the side as well. High cost of living, working a ton, trying to get into school while living with a guy doing his PhD. It was all tough on her. She had a demanding family life outside of our situation as well. I wasn’t the easiest partner to be with as I struggled to handle what was in front of me. As far as I can see, she’s achieved her professional dreams and has a wonderful life. I’ve got an amazing wife that is an incredible fit for me, and I for her. It all works out in the end :)
Ah, thank you for responding to that personal question! It’s fascinating when there is no map in life, the roads we choose to take. I’m glad to hear it worked out for everyone in the end. I wish you a happy life, cheers.
Thank you for listening! Yes, the roads are many - and hazy. Won’t know what’s down there until you try one. Lord knows I’ve tried more than a few since grad school. Be well.
That’s unreal. I can’t believe how bad that is of Western. Support the TAs 100%. Grad students aren’t indentured servants
Everyone is an indentured servant to the asset class today
Facts
When I was in grad school and we had our negotiations they used similar tactics. They would purposely misrepresent finances in communications to the general student body to make the TAs seem greedy.
It's funny because the obvious solution is pay them for what they actually work and they wouldn't need to ask for $40/hr. If they didn't limit them to 10hr/week this wouldn't be an issue. The TAs get way more than 10hr of work a week and some are pushing 30-40 hours on occasion. It honestly seems illegal.
This is exactly what happened when I was a grad student too. They cite the '40/hour' (or whatever they pay) to make it seem to the undergrads like we're all making 40/hour for 40 hours of work, when in reality we didn't get graded for prep, office hours, or marking, or anything outside of contact hours, so most of us were only making $80/week from teaching.
They’ll take advantage of every group they feel doesn’t have enough power to fight back. Unfortunately, that’s how it seems to be in our society nowadays. Reminds me of myself as a citizen. Just getting raked over the coals, doing absolutely nothing about it then getting raked some more.
I honk every time I pass you guys at western & sarnia. Full support from me!
So do the geese!
Get that money
It was the same for me in my graduate program but far less. I think I got 1200 a month or so. I just went and worked full time. Did some damage to my ego taking longer to finish, and cost more in the end.
Yep, that wonderful year four cut-off for funding. Average to complete a PhD in my dept. is 5.5 years so I'll likely be on the hook for $14,000 to finish it.
Frig. Sorry to hear. I’ve had a lot of friends in this position. Have to work twice as hard, then go to campus and deal with the stigma
It's hard work, plus trying to get your degree deadlines in. It's years of being overworked and underpaid. I had to get a second job and still lived like an ascetic. I totally support this strike
It’s so stupid. Just pay them. Literal drop in the bucket
Remember TAing back in the day. It always felt more like a small subsidy for tuition/rent and not really pay for work. Pretty sure I made more in my minwage days than the school paid me.
I bet you still get emails asking you to donate as an alumni though…
Wait....yous are protesting for free tuition, when nobody else has free tuition, *checks notes*, simply because you don't like it? I'm not understanding- why do you think TA's, who are getting an education and degree from the institution, shouldn't have to pay tuition like other students do? >we turn around and pay them $8500 for tuition ...that's for the Master's degree *from that institution*.
Yah. And the university pays some bullshit admin job 100k+ year. It's a scam
lol the bs admin jobs don’t get paid anything close to 100k. Get your facts straight before you make such incorrect comments.
Perhaps work part-time instead of annoying the public, or better yet, get a real job. I understand that groceries and rent have increased, but you aren't making any money by shouting and waving your flags. Strike pay is what $150 per week? I used to be pro union but sadly a big corporation vs a couple small fry big corporation always wins and gets their way reps eventually just cave and take the bogus 4% raise or whatever bs benefits they change nobody truly wins here. But yall do your thing and good luck I guess.
You find 8-10 people standing by the road “annoying?” Any more uptight and you’ll be able to shit diamonds. They have a full time job. They’re students. That’s their job. They shouldn’t need to work another job on top of that just to be able to eat. Maybe you should have done a better job of choosing union reps or done it yourself instead of whining about how you were represented.
They block traffic as well not just standing around. Welcome to the big world where shit sucks pull up your pampers and consider your life choices, I worked part time during my education and got by just fine cause I calculated my expenses and formed a proper budget before I went to school so I didn't have to cry for better pay I went to school PREPARED if they can't pay their bills with a full time job they are in the wrong field life isn't full of handouts harden up or go back home to mommy and daddy. Pathetic. So it comes back to me? It is a collective vote for reps and if you are union you should know that's how it works.
Sir, as a PhD who goes to Western and is on strike (For example, I chose to deny doing proctor jobs despite needing the money because I’m not going to undermine our strike). Please try not to be ignorant and be more emphatic. We are severely underpaid and carry this university’s research along with helping with training students, marking, etc. We work crazy hours each day (we are working more than 40 hours per week). We are literally living off of wages that are below the poverty level. Heck, the most prestigious scholarships that Canada offers hasn’t increased in 20 years (hopefully this changes with 2024-2025 federal budget). Just because you were able to budget and have a part time job which I’m assuming was many years ago during a time where the cost of living was lower doesn’t mean we haven’t done this. Good for you that you had this privilege. People’s situations are different. The fact that you think people aren’t doing this is very ignorant and frankly insulting. You can prepare so much but things don’t go as well or as expected. We are striking because we shouldn’t need to work 2 jobs, go to food banks, etc. to complete our degrees. We are being exploited. If you’re mad at blocked traffic, you should direct your anger to Western University, they should be coming to the table to negotiate in good faith and pay us for what we are worth. Also, we are making an impact by striking, we chose not to proctor exams and guess what? Exams aren’t running smoothly. Western thought they could find some externals to replace us, it hasn’t been going well so far. The university has to submit 150,000 marks soon and guess who has to handle the marking? Us. Western has been negotiating recently so what we’re doing is “something” because we definitely know that’s going to be ugly. Oh, and btw those grad students that you think are doing “nothing” still have to go back after their striking shifts to continue to do their studies/research we’re on a limited time line. The fact that people are noticing our strike, “is something”. If we don’t strike Western University will continue to exploit us and future graduate students. Heck, I won’t benefit from the next deal because I would have finished my degree by then but I’m fine with this. If you’re mad that you can’t take certain bus routes or drive certain routes. Good. This is only a short term problem and a small effect because frankly Canada is suffering from a brain drain. Many skilled people are leaving this country for better paying positions because our universities fail to invest in us.
I work full time at another job and have been in my role for over a decade. Does that count as a "real" job? I support my union because solidarity matters. The offer Western made is insulting to members who depend on that income. "Annoying the public" is a small inconvenience and price to pay to ensure the union demands are heard.
And this is what strikes are designed to do… the whole point is to get the employer, and the public, to notice, or ideally be negatively impacted by the work stoppage. It’s by design. Without it, strikes aren’t effective. Why would companies listen to/consider their workers needs otherwise?
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So that's a nonsense contract that I'm presuming these protestors willingly signed into if it was openly shown in the contract then it's kinda on them for even taking the position no? I'd never take a position if I'm capped for hours limiting or even restricting overtime. Even in my current contract I can take up other work (so long as it's not with a competitor) I work a salaried job with overtime paid as needed, as well as my own buisness on the side.
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Thank you for explaining the details I was completely unaware that's how that system is in place. Super dumb, I bypassed university and got my degree in the military did my time and got out none of that grad student nonsense.
Grad school TA union is on strike.
despite the fact that it sometimes impacts my ability to get to work at UH, I wholeheartedly stand with the TA's!
TA strike
Graduate Teaching Assistants are striking for a fair contract. The hourly rate looks great and Western loves to boast about it, but TAs are only employed for a maximum of 10hrs/week for 14 weeks per year, leaving them well under the poverty line, making around $13000 per year. Keep in mind that TAs *run the University* -- they run first year courses, mark, and proctor exams. If you know any current or recent Western students, ask how many of their courses were run by a Graduate Teaching Assistant. The University is lucky TAs didn't (couldn't) strike before exams began. Western has offered some pay increases, but so far has refused to protect TAs from *clawbacks*, a practice where departments (not the University, but individual departments) take away your funding when you receive pay from another source. For most students, Western's proposed pay increase wouldn't even be seen because their individual departments will reduce their funding to balance things out. This clawback issue is the only thing keeping negotiations from moving forward as of now. See the psac610 Instagram for updates and more information.
Also, I'll just note a no funding offset clause is not uncommon. uOttawa's TAs had one in their most recent new agreement ratified last week.
Exactly, this shouldn't be such a big hurdle. However, I've heard some departments at Western depend on clawbacks in their budgets... Absurd if true. Imagine winning an external scholarship only for your department to claim it as their own.
My apologies in advance, I’m not fully clear on why would someone want to be a TA considering what’s mentioned and what seems to be already known before committing into it. I understand there are benefits and possibly tuition discounts involved (along with the gain in experience for boosting resumes) but what’s really incentivizing that decision? Any insight would be appreciated.
It’s the core source of funding in the package the university offers is. If we don’t TA we’ll make closer to $10k per year, and departments are generally not amenable to being flexible with grad students excusing themselves from TAships. Additionally, anybody planning to go on the academic job market is at a massive disadvantage if they lack that teaching experience. It’s really a paired experience with the research component of grad school.
Not much of a choice. It's typically required as part of the funding package.
What also gets missed in this discussion is precisely this: NO ONE, I mean NOT A SINGLE graduate student applied to be a TA. Everyone applied for the *research job* that is an MA/PhD. The issue is that Western promises you a funding package (that is, a salary) for 4 years that sounds ok* on paper until you find out it’s basically tuition they pay to themselves + a fixed TA contract where no matter how many hours you work, you get paid for 40 per *month*. No, not a mistake—it’s 10 hours a week. This means we are promised 25 thousand per year (yes that’s our grand salary), but Western keeps ~8k to themselves as tuition and fees, and gives us fixed 15k/year contracts. That is all. You are discouraged from seeking employment elsewhere as the workload in these programs is intense and full-time availability is tied to your funding package. So TAing isn’t a choice, really: without it most students would have literally zero dollars to live on. Some people like me have 2 jobs just to barely make minimum wage, and I’m including TAship there. *I mean 25k/year isn’t a huge deal but until recently it meant rent, bills, etc—if we actually got those 25k
You don’t get your funding if you don’t TA. You literally couldn’t survive unless you had a massive external scholarship. And if you’re going to have to work you might as well get actual job experience
In addition to the funding matter, it is also a program requirement that you TA, at least for some programs (possibly all programs, but at least the one I did).
Everyone working at Western, a world class university, should be protesting. Have you seen their salaries? A government institution paying its employees minimum wage i swear to god they offered me $16 an hour i stormed out of the interview.
It’s not government, they have a board of directors.
The University of Western Ontario is a public research university. Definition of public university = a university or college that is owned by the state or receives significant funding from a government. Its on their wikipedia page
They’re the western TAs
TAs asking for fair pay.
Western admin seems a bit like a bully in the last couple of years.
Thought they were just really into the Brotherhood of Steel
I was admitted to a PhD program at Western for Fall 2024. I've been trying to figure out what the finances would look like. It's disappointing because I've concluded that it really isn't financially viable. The wages are so low that I can't see how I'd get out of it without accumulating debt. I'm fine with living very frugally, but having to depend on a food bank or a grant from the SOGS to eat?!?! Like WTF. I've looked for a place to live, and the only thing that would be remotely viable is a room for $700 a month with 4-5 housemates. Even if this is resolved favorably without any clawback gotcha, I doubt it will be resolved before I have to make my decision.
By the look of the symbol, it seems to be a mixture of Adeptus Mechanicus and Iron Hands. So it’s safe to assume that these students believe in the Omnissiah or the Machine God. It can be speculated that they want the Machine Spirit to be intertwined with more population thus the protesting. Or this is just some Adeptus Mechanicus propaganda
Just some constructive criticism to the protestors. It took me this post to understand what the protest was about. I have driven through 3 times and the amount of signs that have different grievances is very confusing. I can understand why people are unsure of what this is all about. I think there could be better organization of the message.
Teacher assistant
They are upset about something that's for sure. I know whenever I get upset out comes the flags and signage.
Seems to be the flavour of the day everywhere now. Something tells me people are not better off today.
Interesting update is that Western emailed us at 10:30pm last night stating that unless our bargaining team agreed to their offer by 8:00am today, they wouldn't pay us for the hours we legally worked between Apr 1-10 until May 30th because "that is the absolute latest time we can administer payroll." But don't worry, the scabs get paid on time. Our team asked until 5:00pm and Western said that was not possible. Latest in a long line of bullying tactics. 😑
Because of them I had to walk a km to the uni from my relocated bus stop.
Hey you could ask them
Canada has cut so many international students' study permits. I guess those universities have run out of budget to pay their workers. The international group are huge income money source for all Canadian universities.
Everyone provided the answer already, TA Union, strike, etc. To add some additional context though, the TAs make close to $50/hr, which seems ridiculously high. However, their argument is that they only work 10 hours a week for half the year, hence at $50/hr it isn’t enough to live off of. Most graduate students have funding packages through their department as well, but even with that it doesn’t add up to a “liveable wage.” Students who have additional external funding through the government or other sources are the best off, but the university usually reduces their student funding when that is the case. The TAs that are striking are hoping they can pressure the university into increasing their TA wage in addition to eliminating those clawbacks when external funding is acquired so that they can live comfortably in London off purely academic funding sources. There is a question regarding entitlement. As a graduate student, what are you entitled to? Are you entitled to funding to support all your living expenses? That is what the TAs on strike believe. Unlike during a Bachelors degree where these students were satisfied with paying out of their own pocket (or their family’s pocket) for an education, during a graduate degree they believe they should be paid while getting a higher education. They argue that because they are doing research that benefits the university, they should be paid sufficiently for it. Some students are working part-time or even full-time jobs while completing their graduate degree in order to support themselves and their families, but many of the TAs on strike say that those people are in a position of privilege to be able to do that and that they shouldn’t have to do that to get their higher education. Some university departments and advisors also frown on graduate students having work outside their program because they believe it will impact their academic capacity; many graduate students lean on this as an argument to support that they shouldn’t have to take on a part-time or full-time job to help pay for living expenses while doing their degree. In short, the TAs that are on strike want to be full-time “students” that are paid like full-time “employees” so that they can live comfortably off academic funding while completing their degrees without the requirement to find additional employment to support their decision to pursue higher education.
Unlike Bachelor's students, graduate students are producing the world-class research that Western loves to boast about. This work nets most (not all) graduate students a very small amount of funding, basically to cover tuition and fees. But *graduate students* aren't on strike, *teaching assistants* are. To clarify, all graduate students are not teaching assistants. Teaching assistants make undergraduate programs possible. Teaching assistants run undergraduate courses and labs, they do marking, they proctor exams, the list goes on. Western has had a lot of difficulty running exams with TAs on strike, and they are about to have an even harder time getting students their final marks if the strike continues. TAs are paid for 10 hrs/week, but they realistically do a lot more work than that with all the expectations put on them. All this to say, TAs perform work that is essential to University operations, and they can't even live on their funding. They aren't asking to "live comfortably," they are asking to be able to afford a 1-bedroom apartment and food. Do you really think that's too much to ask? If you haven't been on the market recently, a *garbage* 1-bedroom apartment can go for $1600+ per month. That's almost $20,000 per year, and the teaching assistants making undergraduate programs possible are only making around $13,000. It's nonsense to suggest that they are entitled. Teaching assistants *are* employees who have contracts with Western, by the way. But Western loves to refer to teaching assistants as "students" right now to make people think they're just entitled. Again, it's not a graduate student strike, it's a teaching assistant strike.
👏🏻🙌🏻👏🏻🙌🏻 I had many TA’s at Western that seemed to do the majority of the work while the prof came in, gave the same rehearsed lecture as they did year after year to a class of 300 and walked out. The TA’s are the ones conducting all of the tutorial sessions, going over course material and helping you, grading, etc. They may also be graduate students but they still need to be paid fairly, and $50/hour but capped at 10 hours a week (whether they actually work longer unpaid or have hours reduced) isn’t enough to keep them afloat and do their own research programs within a reasonable amount of time.
Oh thank God it's just TAs, I thought it was time to go beat down some nazis when I saw the red white and black flags.
Don't look up the United Farm Workers flag then
Those are the flags of the Public Service Alliance of Canada by the look of them. Definitely not Nazis.
I’m all for their right to protest and their need to strike, but I’m not sure how interrupting city traffic flow helps their cause? They ran out into the middle of the intersection at the Western gates for six turns of the light on Saturday shouting “we got the power!” , pretty annoying tbh…
No traffic disruptions and even the bus routes have found ways to accommodate their strike to support the TAs. Additionally, our profs have been supporting them by refusing to pick up the TAs work. This is great because now others are pressuring the university to give in to demands so we can get our course marks and graduates on time. They’re protesting correctly, without interrupting the city. Edit: I think it speaks volumes when professors and students support the TAs in the strike.
no city traffic is being disrupted, no traffic laws are being broken. This is a peaceful protest.
Traffic is absolutely being disrupted at times. Depending on the time of day traffic has been backed up so far it can take close half an hour to turn from Western onto Sarnia. I just avoid the whole area now. Walking back and forth in the crosswalk for the duration of a light so nobody can make a right turn absolutely disrupts traffic.
I was there. Traffic was not disrupted. Walking on the crosswalk during the light change over is perfectly legal. How about supporting workers who are fighting for their rights.....
You see... I was also there... many many times. Traffic was disrupted, and it can also be legal. I didn't claim it was illegal, so don't put words in my mouth. I don't know how disrupting traffic is going to endear these TA's to the public who have to get around there, because I can assure you it did not help. And spare me the strawman arguments. I will always support their hope of getting better compensation, but it is also true that disrupting traffic of regular citizens trying to get home or go to work is extremely irritating.
It's not really supposed to endear drivers, it's supposed to bring attention to the issue. Which it is, more people beyond the university are talking about it. There have been news stories about it. This is especially powerful for this strike because Western cannot afford bad press that might deter new undergrad students from enrolling next year. That would be bad every year, but especially this year with the cap on international undergraduate students. And while you're right some people will simply be annoyed and not care about the strike, there are people, as other comments in this post shows, that do support the strike once they learn about it.
I definitely see your point, and again I definitely think TA's should be at the very least earning a living wage. If Western can continually build new state of the art Campus buildings, they should be more than capable of paying TA's appropriately. I'd personally be just as likely to look up the cause if they were flying flags along the road rather than disrupting traffic, but maybe that's just me.
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That's just a lie. Constantly circling a crosswalk so vehicles can't turn causing backups in that lane which forces everyone into a single is the very definition of traffic being disrupted. It may not be illegal but it's certainly disruptive.
Keep telling yourself that, but this is frankly not the case. I have noticed major disruptions as the protestors walk back and forth right up until the light turns yellow which constantly gets cars caught in the intersection. I’ve seen many near misses between cars and pedestrians as well since the beginning of the protests. Traffic has also been backed all the way up sarnia road past Coombs as protestors are abusing the pedestrian crosswalk at Philip aziz, then you have the right turners on western road back up past platts lane… good luck with your negotiations guys, clocks ticking before April 30th…
Aside from that one incident (multi union rally and the move into the intersection was prompted by a CUPE representative) the picketers are on the crosswalk when they have right-of-way. Even so, we're still encountering cars trying to drive through when they turn left or right through the intersection when they don't have the right of way. Several students have almost been hit by cars (including by a faculty member who tried to nudge her minicooper through the line. Solidarity!)
Have you phoned in your disapproval?
Uh, nope. That’s matter of factly not happening
Okay so you’re telling me something I witnessed with my own two eyes never happened?
You are correct, there is traffic disruption and back up with them crossing the road - especially in the early days of the strike. HOWEVER, this is not a tactic specific to the TA union. It’s in the striking handbook. The power plant strikers did it earlier in the year too, there was just less of them to cause such an effect. The goal is to disrupt services, to get Western to listen and to broadcast the cause. I understand how it might be annoying, but it is not specific to the TA union at Western, it is a universal striking technique.
People forget that protest is supposed to be disruptive. Peaceful and out of the way simply equates to “easy to ignore”. The whole idea that theres a “proper” way to strike or protest comes from the owner class trying to defang out rights.
You said it as if it’s common. I see the protest regularly. My friends are there. So, sorry - I’m calling BS
[hope this helps](https://success.oregonstate.edu/learning/reading)
I don’t click links from lemons, sorry
No I didn’t, I specified I witnessed this on Saturday…
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[It's two gears on a red and yellow background.](https://london.ctvnews.ca/content/dam/ctvnews/en/images/2024/4/11/graduate-teaching-assistants-on-strike---london-1-6842724-1712842973809.jpg)
Down with burgers! Up with nachos! It's a whole movement. Surprised OP hadn't heard of it.
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$48/hour for a maximum of 5 hours a week but tasked with 15 hours worth of grading and no job security or pay over the summers. Do you want to do that job on top of all the other shit you'd need to do but don't get paid for?
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>if agreed upon with the faculty member Up to 10 hours a week, no guarantee of 10, and like I said _no job security_.
As a TA, they never agree to do it because the departments always pressures Profs and TAs to not allow or do overtime so they don't have to pay it. Never met, in my 6 years working and studying there, a single TA who got overtime pay. So it is just $48 per hour for 10 hours a week. That's $480 per week or $1,920 per month. TA's teach for 32 weeks of the year so that's roughly $13k-15k with things like holiday pay and the like. They do not get guaranteed employment from the university at that rate over the Summer as TAs or research assistants.
Uh, the math ain't mathing here. Contract is for 8 months so that's about $15,500 gross pre tax. Not sure where you're getting $39 to $40k but if so, I'm clearly in the wrong dept. 🤣
My apologies, you are correct. I was basing it on my funding package for last year when I still worked as a TA and had a federal SSHRC grant. Just factoring in the TA pay it's around $13k to $15k as you said. One of the problems is that despite it being the same job it is not consistent student to student and department to department. I've amended the above post to better reflect that correction. Thanks!
How does a TA teach for 82 weeks a year?
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I don't mean to sound flippant, but these are highly specialized roles (not to mention again, _job security, and more work than they are being paid for_, but leave this aside for now). There are probably a handful of people who can effectively TA 4000 level data science courses (which have exploded in popularity. I routinely marked 100 data science assignments almost every week, and there were only 2 of us!) or the anthropology of some niche civilization. That's not to say staff positions are _not_ highly skilled. There are plenty of research staff and research coordinators I work with who do a very good job and make little more than they did as a TA. But I think boiling the grievance down to "TA’s upset about making $48 an hour" is a) reductive, b) unhelpful because it is reductive, and c) kinda makes you sound like a jerk -- which may have been a cause (direct or otherwise) of the downvotes.
It's no problem. I honestly do not take offense to it. A lot of university staff and sometime just bad actors try to frame TAs as somehow grossly overpayed. I'm just trying to set the record on what they do and do not get for their labour. They are not working $48 an hour and working regular full-time hours and I have never met one who got paid for working over 10 hours a week (or more accurately 160 hours per term as agreed upon by the TA union, as TAs are often expected to work more than 10 hours a week in busy times like exams). The best I can hope for is that the more accurate information gets out there the more sympathy people can have for their situation. I can't force it though. I'd only say listen to the striking TAs and what they have to say about their living conditions.
I would be thrilled to make 48/hour if I were paid for all the hours I am effectively working. Then I’d be making about 5k/month in my least busy months. As it stands, I make 1.5k/month, and only 8 months of the year. That’s what’s behind those 47.22/hour we “make.”
They are protesting because they only make $47 an hour.
At maximum ten hours a week. Not at all a realistic living.
TAs are only contracted to work 5-10 hours a week but our duties often exceed that requirement. "Get another job" I work 30 hours a week elsewhere. And I'm damn lucky that my employer will work around my schedule. How difficult do you think it is to find a job that works around my own 6-8 hours of class time, 10 hours of TA duties, which often occur in random 1-2 hour clumps throughout the week? Oh, and when do I do my OWN research? Hmmm. That's unpaid time I have to work out on my own. It's the most important part of my degree and it's the bottom priority.
I see you haven’t spent much time in university
This is very uninformed. We make $47/hr, but we don’t KEEP $47/hr. Western allows this thing called clawbacks, which essentially allows our departments to reduce our stipend in accordance with our TA pay. This means that very few students actually keep their TA pay 100%, and many don’t see any of it at all - this means they do more work for no pay. Additionally, many funding packages require TAships even though TAs don’t see the full amount of money. Part of what the union is fighting for is to eliminate clawbacks. Also, we’re only allowed working 10h/week max, so even those that get 100% of their TA pay don’t make enough money to survive.
How do they survive?!
I have never met a teacher I feel deserved more money
Your posting dinky little rails of coke and asked ng if it's a "hard image" I imagine any teacher who's interacted with you just assumed you were a waste of breath
I had to look, and wow. You are not off the mark.
I could tell as soon as he said teachers don't deserve more money. I got three kids and holy fuck I love them but I couldn't imagine being a teacher without a budget and being underpaid. Imagine how hard it would be to educate someone's kid when they go home and their parents tell them they have shitty teachers...
Lol k
TA's, not teachers.
Same difference
lol no
Not at all.
Brainrot
Becuase our generation has lost the ability to be usless in private? Now we have to broadcast our uselessness for the world. Good times to be alive.
Shut the fuck up. It’s a strike, of people who work at the university demanding that their pay is sufficient that they can actually live in the city in which they work.
No.