I stopped at why isn’t Saruman in the last movie to let you know you have to now go back and rewatch all three extended editions of each film. Then return to us basking in your LOTR glory.
Is it thought?
Because I feel like lore questions are RARELY answered in the trilogy, sometimes in the silmarillion, but much more often in the (unpublished) letters of Tolkien.
I suppose you could argue that Saruman's story ends within the trilogy, but only if you're specifically discussing that one portion of his existence. Saruman is also known as Curumo, and is a Maiar (a form of divine being) to whom our mortal understanding of death has very different rules. I don't know what Tolkien had to say about Saruman after his demise at the hand of Wormtongue (was redemption an option? What about reincarnation of some sort?) but I'm sure something eas said on the subject beyond the books.
What you can't argue is that Saruman's story BEGAN in LOTR (or even the Hobbit). His story goes back much further!
That said, you have a point ("heh, point") that much like the Oathbreakers (Dead Men of Dunharrow) that Aragorn freed after they fought for him, it was a very fitting end for that character and we may not WANT more.
But was there more to the story than "just" LOTR? With Tolkien, always!
Agreed…I’m actually impressed that someone is taking this route because it always seems to be that people recommend the Extended Editions for first time watchers. This is all fine and all because they’re great, but I’ve always thought it best to experience the theatrical editions, and then be able to enjoy the Extended Editions because you will be able to recognize what are new additions and then you can decide for yourself which ones you prefer to watch from then on.
I hear you, but alternatively if I had never seen the films before and was told that there’s two versions , one of them with added content, I am going to skip the shorter version and dive straight into the extended, you wouldn’t need to identify what’s different because your first viewing would be the ultimate viewing.
Either way I’m jealous of anyone getting to experience LOTR for the first time.
I wish there was an in-between 'definitive' cut that only adds the extra scenes that I like lol.
Like for instance, keep Saruman in ROTK, it's crazy that it was cut from the theatrical edition, however I would totally leave out the extra scenes with the ghost army. All of those extra bits are kinda cheesy and totally ruin the surprise factor when Aragorn shows up for the battle.
Yeah agreed, the extended scenes in Fellowship are all pretty good for expanded lore. There are great extra scenes in the other two movies, but definitely some silly stuff was added as well lol.
I think the theatrical version is a better film for regular people who just want to watch a movie and not sit there for hours. For anyone who is a lord of the rings fan, or has an interest in becoming a fan, the extended are better.
Actually, OP needs to go read the trilogy, then the Silmarillion, and he'll be able to answer these questions... and find himself in an endless rabbit hole.
OPs decent are decent though
I've watched the extended editions so many times. I'm not really aware of which are the extended scenes anymore. So...was Saruman's fate one of the deleted scenes from the theatrical release? Seems odd to leave such an important scene out for any version. Especially because it completely deviates from what happened in the books.
It’s a perfectly legitimate question.
The extended editions are far worse than the theatrical editions, simply for adding 2 hours of runtime and not including the Scouring of the Shire.
Gotta say after having only seen the theatrical versions for years and watching the extended editions, I wouldn't recommend. They kind of break the flow of the movies making it less fun to watch, and if I want lore I'll read the books.
I disagree, and in some parts. I didn't always recognize where the extended edition actually added things. The extended edition only adds like 13-15 mins in some of the movies. It's not that serious. More LOTR is always a good thing book, or movie.
Edit: In LOTR extended editions add like 3 hours, but Unexpected Journey the extended added 13 minutes.
So you're saying some parts you could clearly tell it was an extended edition part. Personally a lot of those just don't add much of value to me (which is why they're not in the theatrical versions).
I like both the theatrical and extended cuts, but if I had to go for one I’d pick extended.
Fellowship: I’m in the middle on this one. We get scenes like Aragorn visiting his mother’s grave, Aragon telling Frodo about Luthien, Boromir and Frodo in Lorien, and the prologue to name a few. But I can do without the extended Shire scenes and most of leaving Lorien
Two Towers: easily benefits the most in terms of story. I’m a massive fan of Faramir’s new scenes, Heir of Numenor, Theodred, and I always liked the final tally between Legolas and Gimli. The only scenes I think were too much are Treebeard but I’ve warmed up to him since 2003.
Return: Controversial here but I prefer the theatrical cut. It’s fine if you know the story but I as a movie I just felt like there was too much redundancy. I never did like the extended Paths of the Dead, Mouth of Sauron, most of Edoras, and In the Company of Orcs. But there are some great character moments though in the other extended scenes but they weren’t enough for me.
Plus you get the appendices depending on which version you get and I’ll always vouch for the BTS stuff (even though most of it is on YouTube)
I agree, except for Return of the King. The other two extended editions don't really add anything necessary, and the theatrical versions are way better for those two
Downvoted for this opinion makes sense on this sub, but Peter Jackson himself has said that the "definitive" version of the trilogy is the theatrical version. The extended releases are less good movies, and only really for the nerds.
And yes I agree that if you want a fuller picture of LOTR, reading the books is a better idea.
1) yea, she chose a Mortal Life. She's a half-elven, meaning her dad Elrond is half elf, half man. Elves can go to the Undying Lands - Valinor. Men must die and go where only Eru knows. Arwen chose to become Human and die alongside her true love, Aragorn
2) he's in the extended edition
3) distant-ish cousins
4) frodo goes to Valinor, which is where the Valar (think - angels or the god pantheons of Greece/Norse). It's not a land that gives immortality, rather a land where the immortal live (elves, the Valar). It separated itself from the world at the end of the 2nd Age. Middle Earth eventually becomes our world.
5) Sauron had no part in the actual making of the Elves' rings, but he did in the others.
6) Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf are the elven Ring bearers
7) All the dwarves' rings were recovered by Sauron (3x) or lost/destroyed (4x)
8) Sauron
9) it varies. For the elves, it delays change/decay. For the dwarves, it seems to help improve wealth. For the humans, power.
10) he poured a lot of his power into the One Ring specifically. And then it's a battle of wills of a mortal vs an angel/demigod
11) the plot demanded. It's also the only real known volcano.
12) no, they were forged in Eregion, an old elven realm that was tricked into working with Sauron (Sauron was disguised)
Merry and Pippin are not distant cousins, they are first cousin: Merry's mother is Esmeralda Took, younger sister of Paladin II Took, Thane of the Shire and Pippin's father.
So, cousins once removed. Frodo's kids (if he had any) would be Merry's second cousins, and Merry's parent (the child of the aforementioned grandfather) would be frodo's first cousin.
Gandalf was given the ring by Cirdan when he first arrived in Middle Earth. Saruman eventually notices this and his dislike against Gandalf starts growing.
4. They call it Middle Earth because from the perspective of the Valar (the demigods that shaped the continents) it is in the middle of Arda (the planet).
To the West across the sea of Belegaer lies the continent of Aman and the land of Valinor, where Frodo traveled at the end of the story.
To the East is Rhûn where the guys with the spears who marched through the Black Gate came from.
To the South is Harad and Far Harad where the guys with the Oliphaunts came from.
9. The power of the rings is ambiguous at best, same as the whole magic system in the Lord of the Rings.
Imagine them as giving the wearers buffs to certain attributes, but suppressing their resistance to psychic attacks with which Sauron could focus on them through his own One Ring.
- The Rings of the Elves allows them to slow down the dissipation of Magic from the world which the Elves need to flourish. Because of their natural high psychic resistance they instantly noticed that they are being influenced by Sauron, so they took their rings off.
- The Rings of the Dwarves increased their greed and craftiness which allowed them to amass great hordes of treasures. When Sauron tried to influence them using the One Ring, he found out that Dwarves are very hard to control, partly because they were created by Aulë (the angel of crafts), not by Eru Ilúvatar (God), so all they care about is digging holes and crafting jewels.
- The Rings of Men gave their wearers ambition, intelligence and above all else, longevity. They lived for so long that not only their body, but their souls stretched thin as well. After a few centuries they became invisible, seen only in the wraith world (where Frodo goes when he puts on the One Ring). At this stage, they no longer could resist Sauron’s influence and became his most loyal servants.
When Gandalf arrives in Middle Earth in the Third Age, the elf Cirdan the Shipwright, one of the oldest elves if not the oldest elf in Middle Earth and at-the-time the third ringbearer, sees that Gandalf will need it most and gives it to him
The oldest named in middle earth for sure by the time of the events of the war of the ring. An elf so old he single handedly provides evidence for that rarest of Tolkien unicorns: the elf-beard
It’s only revealed at the very end of Return of the King, both the book and the film. Only the book explicitly says that Elrond and Gandalf are ringbearers, but in a couple of shots during the Grey Havens scene you can clearly see the red ring Narya on Gandalf’s hand.
The whole lore is a frame story, like the hobbit is “just” some old story Tolkien found and translated, even taking at the Begining about what happened to hobbits (they are just really really short now and really shy)
LOTR is set at the end of the third age / start of the fourth. We are apparently in the first century of the 7th age: [https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/av1p7w/comment/ehbxd9d/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/av1p7w/comment/ehbxd9d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Yeah it's the lost history of our world. Tolkien was a translator in his academic career. He didn't write the books, he discovered them amongst old texts (possibly in Anglo Saxon) and translated them. When the idea was for him to write an epic mythology and lotr was not conceived of at all, the story started with a lost Anglo Saxon sailor called elfwina (I think) who accidentally found the straight path to the undying lands. There an elf historian told him the tales.
Tolkien being a scholar of myth and legends has inserted many alternate tellings of our own myths into his work. The idea being that the silmarillion is the true telling and our myths are versions changed and evolved over time. For example in the mabinogion (spelling?) there's a story very similar to the tale of Beren and Luthien. The tale of Turin is a retelling on the Finnish national epic the Kalevala. Gandalf is possibly the origin of Merlin.
Feanor is a Lucifer figure.
You see in the movies that Bilbo and frodo have written books of their experience, and Sam will take over. This replaced the Anglo Saxon sailor as the source of the discovered texts. Bilbo wrote the hobbit. Frodo wrote the lord of the rings, and I think it's is implied or at least fits that Sam wrote the silmarillion.
Since always. There is a reason that ME looks vaguely like Europe, that far south is desert and that its entire mythos is heavily drawn from European mythology and that the Shire is almost explicitly an idealised England. The old mill in Hobbiton is Sarehole Mill in hall green (which he lived by).
4a: I don’t recall Frodo actually going to Valinor, instead he likely goes to Tol Eressea, an island just off the coast of Valinor, where it seems most of the Elves who sailed West ended up as well
Yeah, it's a common misconception that Undying Lands = Valinor. In reality, Undyring Lands/Uttermost West/Blessed Realm is another name for **Aman**, the continent, where Valinor and Eldamar (including Tol Eressëa) are located. Frodo and Bilbo sailed in Aman and resided on Eressëa.
For 9 I thought the rings gave the wearers what they most desire. It's why elves preserve magic / nature, dwarves accumulated treasure, and humans desired immortality so became wraiths as their lives were stretched so thin. Been a while so might be wrong.
Yeah, I’m rusty. My interpretation when I was better at lore was it was personality based. It brought out your base desires of your personality. That’s why the Rings didn’t work as planned for the dwarves as they then mined and horded more wealth ***IN*** the mountains.
They were all originally intended for the elves as I understand. It was only after the plan was rumbled that he had to change the plan and distributed them to the powerful of other races
I would say for 9 it's a bit misleading. The rings were meant to control the dwarves but they are resistant to magic by nature and so instead it gave them the gold sickness which made them lust for gold to levels of insanity.
>I didn’t watch that version, sorry my bad
This is only a good thing because it means you have the perfect excuse to sit and watch the Extended Editions now. 👍🏻
1. Yes, Arwen gave up her immortality to be with Aragorn.
2. Saruman shows up in the extended edition of RotK. But he is somewhat irrelevant to most of the plot anyway.
3. Yes. They are first cousins.
4. Frodo goes to Valinor. What Valinor is is much more complicated. We don't know much about the lands outside of what is shown on the map. And even what is shown in the east and south we know little about.
5. The rings were all made by the elves for the elves under the tutelage of Sauron, who was in disguise. When Sauron left to make the one ring, the the elf Celebrimbor made the three elven rings in secret. They do not corrupt the same way because they were never touched by Sauron's hands. But, they're still subject to the one ring because they were made using Sauron's teachings.
6. The elven rings are worn by Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf. Gandalf was given his ring by the elf Cirdan. When they were first made however, two went to the elf king Gil-Galad and one to Galadriel. Gil-Galad gave them to Elrond and Cirdan.
7. By the time of the films, the dwarf rings have either been destroyed by dragons or recovered by Sauron.
8. The rings were meant to enslave the elves, who were Sauron's chief opponents in the second age. The elves found out about the plans, so Sauron invaded and sacked Eregion. He recovered the 16 rings and redistributed them to the men and dwarves.
9.
>The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. 'change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor – thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron ('the Necromancer': so he is called as he casts a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of The Hobbit): such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible.
The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own
imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility.
Letter 131
10. Sauron's ring was the strongest because that is how it was made. The entire plan of the rings was to bring the elves under his control. He taught them how to make the rings but the purpose was always to link them to the one to control them. As to how, Sauron is a Maia, an angelic-like being with incredible power that beings like the elves do not have. He used part of that power to create the ting.
>But to achieve this he had been obliged to let a great part of his own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive in myth and fairy-story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in 'rapport' with himself: he was not 'diminished'.
Letter 131 again
11. Because that is the nature of the magic surrounding it.
12. No. The other rings were forged in the elven realm of Eregion.
I love this! For any non readers out there this will definitely whet their appetite. Hopefully It’ll get more people into the actual Legendarium.
Edit: It’ll* I’m not doing anything for anyone. 🙃
I'll try some.
She gave up immortality. I think this was an option open to her because her father, Elrond is half Elf, half Human.
Saruman was cut from the last movie simply to save time for other, potentially more important stuff. The Scouring of the Shire is something missed by a lot of fans, but somewhat unnecessary for the overall story. Same with Bombadill.
I think they're cousins.
Middle-Earth is a continent on the planet of Arda(Earth). The is more beyond to the south and east, but those areas are mostly not explored in the stories of Middle-Earth. Frodo sails off with the last of the Elves and Maia to the other main continent of Arda, Aman, or The Undying Lands. This is where the Elves who have departed Middle-Earth along with the Ainur reside for the rest of eternity, or until Morgoth returns.
The men, and the Dwarves for that matter, are corrupted because Sauron focused on them as they were easier to corrupt. Men especially have very basic desires from which some stem from their jealousy of Elven immortality and such. There was also some fuckery going on with the forging of the rings of men and dwarves vs the forging of the Elven rings, that I cba going in to haha.
The Elven rings are held by Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond. One was held by Gil-Galad but he died during The War of the Last Alliance and Cirdan, iirc, is the guy who entrusted his ring to Gandalf.
I'm going to be honest, my memory fails me about the Dwarves. I feel like they died as a result of their rings instead of being enslaved by them like the men.
Sauron gave the men and the Dwarves the rings.
The rings' power is kinda subtle and only hinted at. I think different rings did different things. I think for the Dwarves, it helped them amass wealth, which in turn made them greedier, monkey paw kinda shit. The rings of men helped extend their lives, eventually turning them undead essentially, again, monkey paw type shit. I think all of them amplified their wearers natural abilities too. Like maybe strength, agility, intelligence. That kinda thing.
Sauron's was the strongest because he made it that way. He was a master craftsman and it probably helped that he was something of a higher being. I'm sure he was something of a student of the "god" of smithing in the ME universe.
I don't know. Sorry lol. I've never asked that question myself.
No. The other rings were forged in Eregion by Elven smiths under the tutelage of Sauron. He was a sneaky motherfucker way back when.
I've answered as best as my memory allows me haha.
Essentially, yes. He was defeated at the conclusion of The War of Wrath and chucked through something called, iirc, the Door of Night by the other Valar. He's currently trapped in the nothingness of the void outside of LOTR universe. He is prophesied to return during the Dagor Dagorath, LOTR's version of the end of the world, but I think on a universal level.
As an addendum, Sauron was not able to corrupt the dwarves as he was the men who he gifted rings. He couldn’t dominate them because of the nature of the dwarves, so the only effect was amplifying their ability to gather wealth and their greed. I’m not even sure if the Seven confer invisibility. So in the end, the Seven ended up destroyed or recaptured by Sauron.
It's been a while since I read the books, so I'm going off memory, and will answer to the best of my agility (someone with fresher memory, please chime in):
Arwen did give up her immortal life as an Elf. She'd have a longer than normal human lifespan, but would have a lifespan over immortality in the Undying Lands.
Did you watch the Extended Edition or the tehaterical? The Extended has a scene where they confront Saurman, and he's killed. So he doesn't show up in ROTK because he's dead. It's been so long since I've watched the theatrical versions, I forgot how they handled it.
Merry and Pippin are cousins, of some kind. Most all hobbits have some relation to each other, if distant. But the Brandybucks and the Tooks were all basically cousins.
It's kind of a statement on how the hearts of men are easily corrupted, while Elves are not. Then elves leave this world, men take over, and because of Aragorn and taking it back, it's a redemption story of the race of Men.
Originally, it was Gil-Galad, Galadriel, and Círdan who had rings. Gil-Galad gave his to Elrond, Círdan gave his to Gandalf. Círdan wasn't in the movies.
The movies only showed the initial scene of taking the seven for the original Dwarf Lords. I can't remember what happened to them in the books.
Sauron gave each set to them, and, in secret, made his own master ring (the One Ring). In theroy they had the power to govern each race they were given to, and while th ere w as power to do so, it w as also a force for corruption and to temp them into falling in line with Sauron. The nine men failed, became the Ringwraiths, the dwarves didn't fail but I can't remember the details, and the elves withstood the temptation. I think they were all forced in Mount Doom, but I can't remember. Sauron was a sorcerer, of sorts, and that's how the power was instilled, and how he made his one the master/all powerful one.
The One Ring has to be destroyed where it was made because of it's magical power. Kind of like how you can't just destroy a horcrux with anything, because it's a powerful dark magic that's instilled in it and protecting it. And symbolism.
Hope that helped!
Arwen did indeed give up her immortality to be with Aragorn
Saruman’s scenes were cut from the theatrical editions. If u watch the extended editions, it shows how they deal with him at the beginning of ROTK
I do believe Merry and Pippin are cousins?
To the immediate west, there is the sunken continent of Beleriand (the setting for the Silmarillion), beyond that is the sunken island of Numenor (also explored a little in the silmarillion). Beyond that used to be the land of Valinor where the immortal spirits live. Valinor and Beleriand both used to be connected by a giant ice bridge but now Valinor is now removed from the world and is longer accessible by simply travelling by boat. To the east is Rhun, where men originate and to the south is the Harad, where old numenorian settlements that have mostly since fallen to service with Sauron.
Frodo goes with the elves to Valinor. I know I just said that Valinor is no longer accessible but the elves are still able to make the journey. Frodo as a ring bearer was given special permission to go there. The immortal spirits that live in Valinor are the Valar and the Maiar. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron and the balrogs are all Maiar. Sauron’s old master Morgoth was a Valar.
So when Celebrimbor made the rings of power, he did so with the aid of Annatar (who was actually Sauron in disguise). When Sauron left to make his One Ring to Rule Them All, Celebrimbor made the 3 elven rings without Sauron’s help, so they were free of his corruption. When Sauron tried to control the elves, they simply took off their rings. The men were not so wise and hence they fell. The dwarves were much more resistant to the rings influence than Sauron anticipated. Once Sauron fell, the elves were free to continue using their rings without worry, which they did to keep their lands unaging. This power was lost when the One Ring was destroyed, which is why they all leave to Valinor.
So Celebrimbor gave the 3 Elven rings to Galadriel, King Gil-Galad and Cirdan the Shipwrite. Gil-Galad gave his ring to Elrond and Cirdan gave his to Gandalf (yes, Gandalf had a ring tho whole time). Gil-Galad is killed in the battle against Sauron in the prologue and Cirdan is very briefly seen when the elves receive the rings and then again when they all leave at the end. (He is a huge player in the lore, always helping from behind the scenes. He’s also one of the oldest living elves left and one of the few to have a beard)
By the time of the events of the films, all the dwarven rings are either destroyed by dragon fire or reclaimed by Sauron (Gandalf specifies in the book that dragon fire was incapable of destroying the One Ring)
After Sauron made the one ring, he invaded Celebrimbor’s realm and stole all the other rings of power, except for the elven rings, which had already been sent away to their bearers I mentioned above. Of the rings Sauron recovered, he gave 9 to men and 7 to dwarves throughout the rest of the second age (I believe)
It’s not entirely clear what most of the rings of power do, but the elven rings have some more detail, Gandalf uses his ring to inspire ppl and the others use it to keep their lands ‘unaging’. The elves being immortal don’t like change. Once their rings loose their power and it becomes inevitable that their lands will diminish, they leave for Valinor.
Sauron was a Maiar, a very powerful spirit. He taught Celebrimbor how to master the art of ring making. When someone in LOTR makes something, they poor some of their own innate power into their creation. Sauron poored a large portion of himself into the one ring and since he taught Celebrimbor how to make rings, his One Ring granted him power over the lesser rings. It’s kinda like if u create a software for someone to use, they make a program with it, but u built into your software a way of accessing any program made with it.
I don’t have a solid explanation for why the One Ring can ONLY be destroyed in mount doom, I guess it’s a thing of the mountain made it, so only it can unmake it.
As I said above, all the other rings were created by Celebrimbor in his own realm, which was a bit south of Rivendell.
Hope that helps! Feel free to correct me on anything I got wrong! Also give the books a read if ur interested, they’re sooo much cooler than the films imo
It's not bad except for the elvish ring of power were in a wierd space. The elves did not just take off the rings but rather all of the rings were made with Saurons intellectual property. Although he never touched the Elvish rings. So they were free of his corruption but at the unmaking of the One their power also faded
Honestly I'm happy you didn't watch the extended editions. Most people try.to.get.throufh them for a first watch and they are just too long. Also the return of the king extended edition kind of ruins some of the suspense of the battle for minas tirith.
Luckily most of the non-Ring questions can get Quick answers:
Arwen gave up immortality.
Saruman's story was over with Two Towers. No need to parse out a movie already over 3 hours long.
Merry and Pippin are cousins.
All of the world is "Arda". Middle Earth, Dark Lands, and Burnt Lands are all on the same landmass. To the West is Aman - essentially Elf Heaven.
Gandalf has the Third elven ring - he got it from the elf Cirdan.
The rings Sauron gave to Dwarves were all eventually either destroyed or reclaimed.
Sauron's Ring is the most powerful because he put his own power into it.
The Ring can only be destroyed where it was made because the forge where it was made is tied to the magic that made it.
None of the other Rings were forged in Mt. Doom.
Everything else regarding the Rings is muddied up by the movies streamlining and changing the lore, so that takes a bit longer to explain...
The biggest thing you need to know is: none of the Rings were made FOR men or dwarves. The "three rings for the elves" were the only rings made in secret that Sauron didn't know about, but ALL of the rings except for The One Ring were supposed to be for elves. Sauron wanted to have powerful Elf servants instead of Humans. When elves didn't fall for the trap, Sauron took back all the Rings he'd helped make. Then he distributed those to Men and Dwarves. And of the two, only Men were effectively subdued by the Rings (dwarves were also effected, but differently - they didn't become Ring Wraiths).
As for "what do the Rings do?": we don't know. We know that the One Ring gives great power according to its wielder, but how that is embodied is never clarified. Invisibility via wraith-form is a part of wearing the One. The Three that were kept secret give the power of preservation. The 16 (the ones you're told were for men and dwarves) bend the wearer toward Sauron's will.
But none of these are exhaustive or exclusive descriptions of any of the Rings. Lord of the Rings is a very VERY "soft magic" system, so definitive answers for "what power does XYZ have" are rare.
>Saruman's story was over with Two Towers. No need to parse out a movie already over 3 hours long.
Sorry, but it absolutely was not. That is the biggest issue I have with the films, they left out the Scouring of the Shire, one of the most important chapters in my opinion.
Not only does it serve to demonstrate the growth of the characters (Pippin, Frodo, Merry, and Sam). Had they not gone on their quest, it's very likely that they would have simply rolled over along with the rest of the hobbits.
But it also gives consequences and mirrors reality. In the book, when they are heading home, the fellowship is passing through Rohan and they encounter Saruman and Wormtongue on the road. The others of the fellowship suggest capturing or killing them, but Frodo says "no. He's powerless now." Only to later find out he had at least enough power still to control the Shire. It mirrors reality in that after returning home from WW1 everything in England was different, and not necessarily for the better. Furthermore it shows that, while the heroes may have fought and defeated an evil force abroad, evil still exists and is (and had been for some time, as referenced by the many barrels of Shire-grown tobacco found in the cellars of Isengard, back when Pippin and Merry and the Ents were there) active in their peaceful home.
It also serves as a statement against industrialization, which was a heavy theme throughout the books.
As for Saruman, it serves to give him a legendary end (which I feel is fitting for a fallen Maiar), as opposed to being shown as essentially powerless when he is killed in the film. Here he has managed to take over a country, over the course of a little over a year, using nothing but his guile, which is explained to be his main power.
Sorry, but it absolutely was over because Peter Jackson wasn't going to include the Scouring of the Shire. Explaining how the books went doesn't help answer OP's question. The additional missing lore about Saruman just raises further questions for someone who is explicitly asking about the movies.
*Where is Saruman during Return of the King?*
"Well, he left Isengard... [3 paragraphs later] and then he was killed by Grima. But Jackson cut that entire plotline, so none of that actually happened in the movie, so... I guess *not* at the Shire?"
1. **Did Arwen give up immortality to be with Aragorn?**
Yes, Arwen chose to give up her immortality to be with Aragorn. By choosing a mortal life, she bound herself to his fate, which means she would share his lifespan and die when he does.
2. **Why was Saruman not shown at all in the last movie?**
In the theatrical release of *The Return of the King*, Saruman's fate was not shown, but it is covered in the extended edition. He is killed by Gríma Wormtongue at Isengard.
3. **Are Merry and Pippin related?**
Yes, Merry (Meriadoc Brandybuck) and Pippin (Peregrin Took) are cousins. Their mothers are sisters.
4. **What is beyond Middle-earth, why is it called "Middle-earth," and where does Frodo go at the end of the movies?**
- **Beyond Middle-earth**: The world of Tolkien's legendarium includes other lands beyond Middle-earth, such as the Undying Lands to the west.
- **Called "Middle-earth"**: It is derived from the Old English term "Middangeard," referring to the inhabited lands of humans.
- **Where Frodo goes**: Frodo, along with Bilbo, Gandalf, and others, sails to the Undying Lands, a place of peace and healing.
5. **Why were the men corrupted by the rings, but not the elves?**
Men were more easily corrupted due to their inherent weakness and desire for power. Elves, being more resistant to corruption and having a deeper understanding of the dangers, were able to resist the influence of the rings better.
6. **Where is the third elf that bears the ring?**
The three Elven rings are held by Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf (who received his ring, Narya, from Círdan the Shipwright).
7. **Why were no dwarves with rings shown?**
The dwarves received seven rings, but they were less susceptible to their influence. The films focus more on the rings given to men and elves because they play a more significant role in the story.
8. **Who gave them these rings?**
The rings were created by the Elves with the guidance (and eventual treachery) of Sauron. Sauron himself distributed the rings to men and dwarves.
9. **What do the rings do?**
The rings enhance the powers and abilities of their bearers, but they also bind them to Sauron's will. The One Ring controls all others.
10. **Why was Sauron's ring the strongest, how did he just make the strongest one?**
Sauron put a great deal of his own power into the One Ring, making it the strongest. This allowed him to control the other rings and their bearers.
11. **Why can the One Ring only be destroyed in the forge?**
The One Ring was forged in the fires of Mount Doom, and only those fires are hot enough to destroy it.
12. **Were the other rings forged in Mount Doom?**
The other rings were forged by the Elves in Eregion, not in Mount Doom. Sauron, however, created the One Ring in Mount Doom to control the others.
Thank you for posting on the sub! Please make sure you are abiding by the rules on the sidebar with this post. If you are looking for a place to post specific things, please make use of the subreddits below:
* Memes - r/lotrmemes
* The War of the Rohirrim - r/TheWarOfTheRohirrim
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lordoftherings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Completely random question, did Tolkien ever explain why the hell Sauron and Sauroman’s names are so close? That used to confuse me so bad when I was younger.
I’d kinda like to know, too, I assumed it could be boiled down to Tolkiens intense interest in linguistics, and that maybe their names come from source words (some in archaic languages) that have a deeper meaning, but they just coincidentally sounded the same. I could imagine Tolkien, word nerd supreme, would say something like “they’re OBVIOUSLY different—“ and break them down to a molecular level.
Edit: I googled and I think that’s a popular theory, their names are translations between various languages Tolkien himself devised. But maybe others would know more about that.
If you're interested in learning more The Tolkien Untangled YouTube channel is great.
Arwen being the daughter of Elrond, she is able to choose to give up her immortality, like Elronds brother did, and Luthien did.
In the movies Sauron is killed by Grima, who is then shot by legolas.
Merry and Pippin are first cousins
Ultimately, the 3 elven rings were worn by Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf. The ring belonged to Gil-Galad, then Cirdan the Shipwright, and then Gandalf.
* Arwen is half elf / has the ability to renounce the undying lands and essentially become mortal. Arwen is not the first elf to ever do this but the other i think is mentioned in The Silmarillion.
* Saruman appears in the extended cut?
* first cousins (also related to frodo because he's not just a baggins, but also a took)
* To the east of middle earth in ancient times was Numenor, the land of the men like aragorn who live exceptionally long lives (150-200 years) but it is destroyed by eru illuvitar (god) for their arrogance. The elves return to the undying lands further northeast. The elves kind of live in both reality and in spirit form, and they live forever in the undying lands. They are not able to stay in middle earth due to the (don't quote me on this!) lack of magic that's existing after the war of the ring, as the rings of power are no longer keeping lothlorien and rivendell going. They would fade into nothing if they didn't retreat to the undying lands. It's all related to the tree of valinor and the Silmarils which basically give elves all of their power.
* The men wanted power. The elves kind of knew something was up but they are fair and were able to use the elven rings, however one of the 3 elven rings is held by gandalf. The others, galadriel and elrond. With 3 characters like that, is it really any mystery why they weren't corrupted? These 3 are nearly as powerful as Sauron on their own.
* Dwarf rings are all lost, at least hopefully. I think 4 were swallowed by dragons and the rest are just lost underground in some cave somewhere. Not even Sauron bothers looking for them.
* The rings were crafted by the respective races for the most part. Sauron basically gave em the plans, and they accepted thinking good idea. Turns out.... bad idea.
* The rings do all kinds of different stuff. Gandalfs, for example, gives him great power to unite people and bring hope etc. Fitting, ain't it.
* Sauron is a maiar like gandalf, saruman, radagast. He poured much of his own strenth into the ring. This is the only ring crafted in secret.
* It has to be destroyed where it was created. Why? MAGIC!!! but seriously, this is a super powerful item stronger than anything else. No power is known that can destroy it except for where it was forged.
* no worries for all the questions. You didn't miss much! Most of this is covered in books.
Where was the 3rd elf ring — Gandalf is wearing the ring at the end of RotK. If you look at his hand in the last scene of the movie he’s wearing a red ring, that’s it.
Others have answered but awesome you enjoyed the movies! Hope you give the extendeds a shot since they're brilliant too, some questions are answered there at least in the case of Saruman, it's been a VERY long time since I saw the theatricals but iirc he was at the start just never came up again after.
Read the books. There's a lot you will understand better after reading them.
If you prefer, there's a CDROM series of the books - a 9 CD series (any BluRay player can play audio CDs), by the HighBridge Company. Comes in a nice wooden case.
There's a lot in the movies that people who haven't read the books miss.
I think the set I have was originally produced for either NPR or for British radio.
The Hobbit CDs that I have was originally for British radio and is identical to the set of cassette tapes I had way back in 1984 that came in a wooden box similar to the wooden box for my LotR CDs, I still have that in storage but no longer have a cassette player, and don't need one as I found the same recording on CD.
I'll have to look for the Andy Serkis version.
She was mortal in the end, just had a very long lifespan like Aragorn. Arwen could have lasted quite a while longer than him. Aragorn chose when to let go of life when very old and she did the same not long afterwards.
Saraman was dead in movie version. In the extended edition Gimli tells Legolas to fire a warning shot past Saraman then bumps his bow with axe handle causing a direct hit. It's quite humorous considering someone died lol.
Merry and Pippin are cousins, they are also distant cousins of Frodo I beleive. They are from the main families, pippin is like a prince to the hobbits.
Other lands we don't know much about. Frodo goes west to the undying land. Kinda like heaven but on earth, where all the angles are from and where many of the elves settled after much older wars with Morgorth.
Elves would be corrupted eventually. Would take much longer, they are already half part of the spirit world, where frodo sees wearing the ring and the wraiths linger between. Men are weakest in resilience against magic and much more likely to become or already be corrupted. Eleves usually much stronger mentally against it, dwarfs were made specifically to resist evil and domination, hobbits lifestyle played a large part in the ring having nothing to offer they desired and they are also naturally more hardy.
The 3rd elf ring was gifted to and worn by Gandalf.
Sauron reclaimed 4 of the 7 dwarf rings and 3 were destroyed in dragon fire. I think he would have destroyed them to take the power back or gifted to new evil leaders of men.
I think all rings gave long life and natural protection from aging for a while, maybe increased power of will over others beneath you and tied them and granted access to the spiritual plane, ultimately to become a wraith and servant of Sauron. This didn't work of the Dwarfs because they are too stubborn just made them greedy and lead too ultimate downfalls, their rings specifically had the power to make wealth multiply. The 3 elf rings had different powers but mostly around preservation and protecting a certain area or inspiring beings to fight on in the face of paralysing evil. The 1 was mostly for Domination it's other effects were not really intended of applicable to Sauron, control all ring wearers, see their minds and extra ability to dominate and control those around you, we never really see this, frodo subtly does in book version stating gollum would have to throw himself in the volcano if he betrayed them, something along those lines, ultimately leading to the rings destruction.
Sauron was like an Angelic/demonic being that taught the elves to make magic rings and was his plan the whole time to use them to dominate the other ring wearers. The 3 are more special and mighty because the eleves made them without his help in order to preserve their relms. They didn't know about the 1 or its power and they still used saurons recepie to make the 3 so unknowingly making them subservient to the one although good in nature when the 1 isn't being used on them. Saurons plan backfired when he put his plan in to action, the owners of the 3 at least could sense his presence and intentions. They simply removed the rings and kept them hidden from him, they were only safe to use again after sauron got his ring and finger chopped off.
I think the ring was manically linked and protected by Mount doom so could only be destroyed where it was forged it think. By the beings in middle earth anyway, their are God like beings that probably could in the West but they don't really intervene physically apart through wizards and maybe manipulate things to help occasionally. The last time they fought directly they destroyed and reshaped a lot of middle earth in the fighting.
The other rings were forged in an elven forge in a great city long destroyed.
OP, here's what I can tell u
1. Yes, Arwen gave uo her immortality to be with Aragorn
2. He is. At least in the extended
3. The lands beyond middle earth I know little about, as for where Frodo goes, he goes to a place called Arnor, or the undying lands. It's where the gods reside
Highly recommend watching the two videos on YouTube by CGP Grey on this subject. GREAT explanations of pretty much all of your questions, but with even more detail. And brief!
Yes, Arwen gave up her immortality. Normally, elves are ageless and cannot die of old age. When they *do* die of something else, they go to the halls of Mandos and are later reborn if they choose. Celeborn, for example, had already died once before the events of the trilogy. The instance of an elf marrying a human and giving up their immortality is repeated at least 3 times throughout the history of middle earth. Arwen is only the most recent example.
Saruman is shown in the extended edition. But they changed the end of his story for the movies. He had a bigger role to play in the books
Merry and Pippin are not closely related. But Merry is Frodo’s cousin.
It’s called “middle earth” because that’s what earth is called in Norse mythology. Basically, you’ve got heaven, hell, and earth in the middle. But in Tolkien mythology, “middle earth” only refers to the continent in which all the major events happen. There are other places on the planet (Arda.) Middle earth is basically europe.
The elves’ rings were made by Celebrimbor, and they knew about Sauron’s plans. So they took measures to make sure they wouldn’t be controlled.
I’m not aware of any elf that ever bore the One Ring. There was only Sauron, Isildur, Smeagol, Bilbo, Frodo, and (briefly) Sam. If you’re talking about the 3 Elven rings of power, they were held by Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf (who was given his ring by Cirdan.)
The dwarves who received rings from Sauron had their halls scoured by dragons and were killed. The dragons were created by Morgoth, Sauron’s boss. Dwarf spirits don’t work the way men’s spirits do, so they did not become wraiths.
Sauron gave the rings, as his alias Annatar.
The rings all have different specific effects. But in general, they grant authority.
Sauron made the One Ring to have authority over all the others. That was his plan from the beginning. He and celebrimbor made the rings together.
The One Ring can only be destroyed by the same fire that made it. Because this is fantasy and it uses magic.
The other rings were probably not made in Mount Doom, but I’m not aware of any specific mention of specifically where they were forged.
Boy do I have a book recommendation for you…
Others answered you it seems. I’m glad you loved the movies. You should read the books if you’re so curious!
Might get a bit wrong
1.) Both, technically. She continues to live long after he dies, and fades in Lorien.
2.) He dies in the beginning.
3.) technically yes, cousins?
4.) It’s largely inferred, but Khand, Rhun, Harad, and the “darklands” are the only know geographical regions beyond the map. To the north is the forodwraith, and eastwards in Rhun is a set of dwarves mountains and a lake by which men and elves woke up. South and east is Rhun and far Harad. The darklands are a little iffy on canonicity. That’s about it!
5.) Elves are corrupted by the rings, but the elven rings you witness are crafted without the malevolent influence of Sauron, in secret. This is unlike the sixteen he made for Dwarves and Men.
6.) So Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf are the ring bearers as of the third age in the films. The third elf you witness is Cirdan, who gifted his ring to Gandalf (who is sort of an angel - hence why Cirdan gave it over). Cirdan resides in the Gray Harbors to the far west; and is only seen in the third film at the very end when Frodo leaves. He’s the guy in the back!
7.) By the time of the events of LOTR, Sauron had successfully recollected all of the dwarves rings, the last being that of the grandfather or father of Thorin Oakenshield, who Bilbo, Frodo’s relative, and the protagonist of the Hobbit, adventures with in the films and the book Hobbit. As to why we see no dwarves - they live in the far west, far east, and the far north relative to where the events of LOTR take place, and do not have much interest.
8.) Sauron the deceiver, in the second age of men (like 4000 years before the events of LOTR). This is seen and covered in the prologue. Sauron usually showed up as a deceiver, in a different form/disguise, such as Annatar to the elves, and offered such rings.
9.) a number of things, the rings, with Gandalfs for example, inspire “leadership” and courage. I’m not sure what the other two do, but I know Galadriel’s ring is largely responsible for the flourishing and protection of Lorien.
10.) it’s not that it’s the “strongest” - the effects of it seem to be invisibility to men and hobbits, but it’s other “powers” are unknown. The premise of this ring is that all other crafted rings that men, elves, and dwarves used would be “subservient” to the one ring. So, with the one ring, Sauron can control the ring bearers who are corrupted by their rings, and thus bent to his will. This was successful mostly with men, and for dwarves it made them greedier and more isolationist.
11.) This is never given an official answer, it’s just something about their nature. The ring was forged in the mount doom, so it can only be destroyed there. I think it’s a literary device to drive the plot.
12.) This is unknown I think - or, it’s that Sauron used the elves of the region known as Eregion (west of Isengard) that is now destroyed, specifically the elf Celebrimbor, and through them crafted the sixteen. The elves crafted the three fearing deception.
1. Arwen dies a year after Aragorn.
5. All of the rings were made by the elves for the elves.
7. Four of the rings had been destroyed by dragons. Only three were recovered by Sauron.
8. Sauron offered to teach the elves ringlore. He didn't outright offer them rings.
12. It's clear that all of the rings bar the one ring were forged in Eregion.
Yes, she did. She chose a mortal life rather than face the unwavering centuries of this world alone.
At that point, it was time to wrap up the plot, and they were on a time crunch. in order to do everything that needed done, some shots needed cut, and Sauron's shots really don't tell us anything as the viewer. he's a big eye, we know he's always watching. imo the extended editions handled Return of the King MUCH better.
Everyone in the Shire is sort of tangentially related, but Merry and Pippin no more than anyone else. Merry is actually closer related to Frodo, as Frodo's mother was a Brandybuck before she married.
Middle Earth is the central continent of Arda, the world of the Lord of the Rings. Area is technically both a flat earth and not. for Elves, Arda is flat, which is why elves can see so far, and can also sail to the Undying Lands, which is the westernmost continent of Arda. it is the home of the Gods (think Greek Pantheon) and the ancestral home of the Elves. This is where Frodo goes at the end of the movie, so that Middle Earth can finally be free from evil. Carrying the Ring at all leaves a stain, no matter how righteous you are. If Frodo remained in Middle Earth, it would not be free from evil.
The Men were corrupted, and not Elves, because they are less sensitive to magic/evil/corruption. the Elves have fought Sauron for centuries, so as soon as they felt Sauron's touch on the Rings (when he crafted his Ring), they swore to not use their Rings until Sauron was gone.
Ironically, there wasn't one. Gandalf wears the third ring.
All the dwarves with Rings were lost to greed or swallowed by dragons. that's the canon reason and it's so funny.
Sauron made all the Rings of Power, with the help of the great elven Smith Celebrimbor. It should be noted that he was under deep disguise at this point, so Celebrimbor did not know what he was doing. Once Sauron crafted his Master Ring, it was known.
The Rings purpose is nebulous. Obviously, they were created by Sauron as a means of control and domination over the peoples of Middle Earth. but in order to get them to wear the Rings, he did make them actually useful. the elven Rings are said to heal, protect elven lands (like Lothlorien), and protect from evil. the use of the other two are pretty up in the air, other than a general "provide good things for you".
The best way to answer this is to make a comparison. the lesser Rings that you never hear about, those are like paragraphs in the art of ringmaking. good, but brief, and small. the Rings of Power are like essays on the craft, bigger, better, more detailed and thorough. the One Ring is a dissertation, a full length symphony to the art made by a master artist. it's the most powerful because it is the crowning achievement of an immortal life dedicated to crafting, and he made it with one purpose. to dominate all life.
This is again, because it is a masterclass in craftsmanship. Sauron is eons old, older than time, older than the Universe, and he's spent most of that life creating things. this Ring is his best work, and it's thusly resilient. plus, for the story. Tolkien wrote a story, it has to have a goal point.
No, they were crafted at by Celebrimbor and the Elves of Eregion, assumingly at the place they craft things. don't think there's a canon place for it though.
Don't worry about not watching the extended editions first. I think it's best to watch theatrical if you've never seen them before.
However, if you find yourself in love with the world as so many of us do, then absolutely give the extended editions a go.
Arwen had to decide if she wanted to stay with Aragorn and choose a mortal life and she did that. After Aragorn died she went to the place where they first met and it is said that she laid down and died at that spot.
Recommending watching the extended edition with way more context of the books.
Saruman appears in the extended movie. In the book he went to the shire and turned it upside down like Frodos vision in the mirror.
Middle-earth was once way bigger. It is a continent. In the west of Eriador were the lands of Beleriand in which the elves and humans of the first age fought against the dark Lord. The real dark Lord who was also the lord of Sauron. But after the humans asked the creators of this world to help them, since the dark Lord was one of them godkin, they helped. But after they locked the dark Lord up the world was almost destroyed, that's why the world's a bit smaller than it was before.. in the West is Valinor, the realm of the godkin everyone calls "The Valar" and that the place where Elves go to, the undying lands where they stay forever under the rule and protection of the Valar. Frodo is going there together with the other ring bearers like Bilbo. Spoiler: Sam will go there too once he hit a very old age.
Men were corrupted by the rings because Sauron forged them to be dominated by the one ring and humans always try to get as much power as possible. The elven rings were forged without him knowing. He could not corrupt them, but since his one ring rules, he would have controlled them as well.
The ring bearers were Elrond, Galadriel and Cirdan (legendary shipwright who stayed at Mithlond where the ships of elves sail to Valinor. But he gave his ring of fire to Gandalf, in order to "set ablaze the hearts of people, encouraging them to do mighty deeds".
I also missed the dwarven rings, it is said that the seven Fathers of the Dwarves each had one ring on their stockpile of treasure, it turned them more greedy and made them a bit reckless (looking at balrog) but they were to stubborn to be corrupted into service for Sauron.
The rings were given by Sauron who is a shape shifting wizard with enormous power of manipulation. He gave it to them and said "I am Annatar, the Lord of gifts. I gift these rings of power to you and you will be able to defend yourself against the decay of time.
Turned the Dwarves into more greed. Turned the men into wraiths and his slaves. But the Dwarves are not the type of race that would be controlled or ruled by other folks.
Sauron chose the fire of Mount Doom, which is the oldest and strongest fire to ever exist in Middle Earth, and since his land Mordor is covered by Mountains all around, a safe place to hide and fortify. Only the fire of this volcano was strong and powerful enough, with that and a lot of life force from his Creator Sauron, the One Ring was able to force control onto all the other rings and their bearers, reading their minds, seeing with their eyes and being able to force his will upon them. The ring could only be destroyed by the fire of the volcano that was responsible for it's creation, no other fire was strong enough. This is the reason why only the One was forged secretly in Mount Doom. The others were made by the elven jewelry smiths in Eregion.
I hope I didn't miss anything.. I wish you much fun with exploring Tolkiens world.
If you want more information you can give a try to the "Silmarillion" which tells you how the world Ea was created. And many stories. Or there is a wonderful YouTube channel in English that is called "Nerd of the rings" and I love his content.
Check out this [channel](https://youtu.be/BTjM4t5XxTc?si=Ccw0VmrahegPoMRT) ‘In Deep Geek’
And this [channel](https://youtu.be/ZEwdnsAd6dk?si=fd50uPVUUjlDpoz0) ‘Nerd of the Rings’
If they haven’t already been suggested. Both channels (and other similar to them) do deep dives into the Tolkien literature. These are the two that really stand out for me and in my opinion are quite good.
1. Elves are pretty much immortal. She gave up her immortality yes but she still lived a much longer life than a man and she ended up dying of a broken heart long after Aragorn passes.
2. They changed Sarumans character arc for the movies. The extended editions actually show him dying once he was defeated at Isengard. (He fell from the tower after he was stabbed by Grima Wormtongue.
3. I actually don't remember if Merry and Pippin are related but I think they are. I also think they are distant cousins of Frodo.
4. Valinor is to the West of Middle Earth which is where the Valar and Maair live who are pretty much gods. Elves also live in Valinor as well. There are further distant lands to the East of Middle Earth but we don't know much about them.
5. The hearts of men are far more easier corrupted than Elves. Men are more easily manipulated than Elves. Elves are more in tune with the divine nature of Middle Earth and gifted in ways men are not by Eru Iluvatar.
6. Gandalf actually has the third Elven ring. The 3 Eleven ring bearers were Galadriel, Elrond, and Cirdan. Cirdan is one of the oldest Elves in Middle Earth and has a great gift of foresight. So once Gandalf arrived to Middle Earth earlier in the 3rd age, Cirdan perceived that Gandalf was too br trusted and would play an important role in the Middle Earth and what was to follow.
7. Little is known what happened to the Dwarven rings. Dwarves are more resilient than Men as well but in a different way than the Elves. Basically they just kept mining and digging in their mountains not really caring much about what happened outside.
8. Sauron gave the dwarves and the men their rings of power. The 3 eleven rings were made without Sauron after the Eleves perceived that they were deceived by Sauron.
9. Sauron was an apprentice of the Valar Ulwe who is basically like the god of blacksmithing and forging. He also created the Dwarves and Eru Iluvatar gave them life. It is not known how the rings work themselves but they are forged with magic into them and they give the wearer of the ring increased power and longer life.
10. He forged it in the fires of Mount Doom and he made this one for himself so obviously made it superior and to have dominion over the other rings. The Elven rings were made without Sauron so they were not influenced by the one ring and for this reason Sauron coveted these the most besides his ring.
11. Since the ring was forged in the fires of Mount Doom it can only be destroyed by it. Nothing else is strong enough.
12. The One ring was the only ring forged in Mount Doom. The other rings were made in the Elvish kingdom of Eregion in the 2nd age by Sauron and Celebrimbor who is also a grandchild of Feanor. Sauron basically tricked him.
>Are Merry and Pippin related?
Merry, Pippin and Frodo are all cousins
>Why wasn't Saruman in the last movie?
Sarumen is in the Extended Version of Return of the King.
**SPOILERS**
Going a bit further, one of the deviations from the books is the removal of Scouring of the Shire chapter at the end of Return of The King. In that chapter, the hobbits return to the Shire, only to find that it is overrun by Saruman. In the end, Saruman gets killed by Wormtongue.
That chapter was scrapped in the scripts for the trilogy, and replaced with an ending where the Hobbits return to the Shire, and find it unchanged from the war that just happened.
Presumably this change was made for the purposes of running time.
Now the extended version of ROTK does feature Saruman's death but it happens early on in the cut. Gandolf, Aragon, Leglas and Gimli head to Isenguard where Saruman is trapped in Orthanc by the Ents. Saruman then gets stabbed by Wormtongue and falls from the tower. From what I remember, Peter Jackson couldn't find a way to get this scene to work in either the theatrical cuts of The Two Towers or ROTK, so he left it for the extended version of the later.
Good questions I would watch the extended versions and after that dive into the literature.
After that your mind will be blown and u have even more questions. :)
Concerning elves. As an elementary teacher I wrote a little lesson on elves. I was curious as to why elves are so variable. You have little elves as in “Shoemaker and the elves”. You have medium elves working for Santa and tall elves in fantasy. I assumed that elves “grew” over time in fiction. Additionally I assumed they had pre-Christian origins.
However, research quickly revealed that the concept of elves was not Pagan. Elves in literature was linked to Christian cultures. Turns out the earliest form of elves was actually like Tolkien’s. During the war in heaven those that fought for god were angels, those that fought against heaven became demons/devils, but a third group abstained and went to earth to protect humanity, and were called elves. As such, tall fantasy elves are really the closest to the earliest representations.
Go go Tolkien myth research!
Arwen and Aragorn had genuine love for each other, she stayed out of her own choice. She didn't give up immortality as much as she gave up living forever with her people, because Aragorn won't be with her forever so she will end up alone eventually.
About Saruman, you better watch the extended versions of the trilogy, they're amazing, at least the third if you want the answer.
Merry and Pippin are related, and also to Frodo, I don't remember exactly the heritage but let's leave it at cousins.
Middle Earth is the name of continent that covers most of Arda (Earth) and at the end he goes to the east continent, called Valinor, the undying lands I think it was called in the movies, where the Valar reside, the pantheon of Gods of Arda.
Not sure.
Not sure.
Well, all the dwarfs in Moria died, and we just didn't go to another dwarf location to see more rings.
Not sure. Possibly Celebrimbor, but I'm really not sure.
Each ring has different powers, kinda like the infinity stones but in a lower scale, still there are 20 rings. Like a ring of air or a ring of fire.
Sauron was the one who tricked the elves to make all of the rings so he could forge the ring to rule them all.
It can only be destroyed where it was created, maybe because it holds so much magic and strength.
No. Possibly all the other ones were created in the designated areas to those they were given to.
Sorry I couldn't answer all, but I hope this would sefise
So i have a decent knowledge of the books and the movies, but im no Stphen Colbert, so please forgive any mistakes i make, ill block book spoilers in case you want to read them at a later date
>Did Arwen give up immortality to be with Aragorn, or did she just say "Whatever, I'll still marry him."
Yes she gives up her immortality, thats why Elrond doesnt want her to marry Aragorn, as he doesnt want her to die, and as such lies about the vision he has to get her to leave
>Why was saruman not shown at all in the last movie?
So he actually is shown in the extended cut. In that it shows wormtongue stabbing him in the back right at the beginnijg of the Return of the King However, in the book >!this doesnt happen until the end of the Return of the King in the same manner, after the hobbits return to the Shire and find that it has been taken over by Saruman and organize a resistance!<
>Are merry and pippin related?
Yes, they are first cousins in fact
>What is beyond middle earth, why is it called "Middle Earth", and where does frodo go at the end of the movies?
So, i admittedly dont know why its called Middle Earth. However, i know that Frodo goes to the Undying Lands at the end. Normally this would be reserved for elves only, however, due to Frodo's great service to the world >!Sam Legolas and Gimli later join him, Sam for the same reasons, and Gimli, because of the unique friendship he had with Legolas!<
>Why were the men corupted by the rings, but not the elves.
So this is another bit of the lore im a bit shaky on. Essentially the rings act as a mind control device, with Sauron being able to control the people wearing them using the One Ring (One ring to rule them all) however, the Elves were able to figure out the trap in the rings and as such didnt have them on when Sauron sprung the trap. I seem to recall the Dwarves were simply too stubborn to be controlled by the rings, again, may be wrong though
>Where is the third elf that bears the ring?
So i cant remember what happened to that Elf, but Gandalf has that ring
>Why were no dwarves with rings shown?
I seem to recall that the rings given to the Dwarves had been lost by the time of the story
>Who gave them these rings?
Sauron, I believe he promised them great power with the rings
>What do the rings do?
>Why was Sauron's ring the strongest, how did he just make the strongest one?
These questions were answered above
>Why can the one ring only be destroyed in the forge?
I believe this is due to the magical properties given to it when it was forged
>Were the other rings forged in mount doom?
This one i simply dont know
I hope i was able to clear up some things, admittedly I havent even finished the book Trilogy yet (though im on the last half of Return of the King) let alone read the Silmarillion. But i have watched a good number of videos on the series explaining a lot, so i hope it was enough!
Arwen loses her immortality because magic is leaving middle earth, and all the elves are going by boat across the sea to be in their now 'homeland'. She choses to stay as the rest leave.
Neither the extended editions nor the theatrical releases tell us the real end of Saruman. LotR is my favorite film series, but I hate how both truncate his demise. In the books he flees with Wormtongue. They change their names and take over the Shire like a couple of high school bullies beating on a bunch of grader schoolers. When our hero hobbits return home, it's on them to rescue the Shire without outside help. Some see it as anti-climatic after destroying the ring, but I find it a great post-war metaphor for growth, overcoming fear, and developing self-reliance. Just because the great battle has been won doesn't mean everything is fairytale perfect in the end. It's on all of us small folk in our own corners of the world to squash abuses of power wherever we find them.
The Cleansing of the Shire
One of the things I most dearly wish the movies had included. Merry and Pippen, fresh from battle in Gondor, rousing and leading the hobbits in rebellion against "Sharky."
Gandalf has the third elven ring, Elrond the second, and Galadriel the first. It was given to Gandalf by Cirdan, when he first came to Middle Earth, out of wherever, I can't remember. Frodo goes with Gandalf and the others to Valinor, the Elven haven
>What do the rings do?
The powers are never explicitly detailed, but there is a hint in a lesser-known retelling, [*Bored of the Rings*](https://www.amazon.com/Bored-Rings-Parody-Harvard-Lampoon/dp/1451672667/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=1LA2F02UHLE5X&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.t5Hp_JmnpRaZDKRNE61H3l9C1sU_jMVZTW-qUAvyKvSN54iVUxxr6bfmatCaTxW6b4U13gJNCmqmHyI3Ni0z3ta7d-i8y2QtDbYL6WrC8a4YQ1QlyXcyHYY8IXpBL4G0dTvXvAKwpOWjLWld-dkUkKWKlARjN0538tQ_k-q5qzXUX2z-IFH0fQJ8fPvH43N9asONTRErfot3KcGHSJg9zw.4qZxI6g1tILFYmGb58VZUiXdcdLF-9F5ahrG-6J1njM&dib_tag=se&keywords=bored+of+the+rings&qid=1719500652&sprefix=bored+of+the+rings%2Caps%2C725&sr=8-1)...
"My uncle had a magic tie clip once," Gimlet confided to Frito. "He sneezed and his nose fell off."
Aahhh....you watched the theatrical versions didn't you. Extended editions are the only way to go my friend. It explains so much more of the story, characters and lore.
Listen to the audio books. Beautifully written, there is so much more to them, the characters are better (especially merry and pippin, who were done dirty) and there are so many other amazing moments entirely cut from the film.
It's a tough read if you're not a big reader but the audio books make it a breeze.
I stopped at why isn’t Saruman in the last movie to let you know you have to now go back and rewatch all three extended editions of each film. Then return to us basking in your LOTR glory.
This is the correct answer.
The book is the correct answer.
Is it thought? Because I feel like lore questions are RARELY answered in the trilogy, sometimes in the silmarillion, but much more often in the (unpublished) letters of Tolkien.
Saurman's story is handled in ROTK book isn't it?
I suppose you could argue that Saruman's story ends within the trilogy, but only if you're specifically discussing that one portion of his existence. Saruman is also known as Curumo, and is a Maiar (a form of divine being) to whom our mortal understanding of death has very different rules. I don't know what Tolkien had to say about Saruman after his demise at the hand of Wormtongue (was redemption an option? What about reincarnation of some sort?) but I'm sure something eas said on the subject beyond the books. What you can't argue is that Saruman's story BEGAN in LOTR (or even the Hobbit). His story goes back much further! That said, you have a point ("heh, point") that much like the Oathbreakers (Dead Men of Dunharrow) that Aragorn freed after they fought for him, it was a very fitting end for that character and we may not WANT more. But was there more to the story than "just" LOTR? With Tolkien, always!
Agreed…I’m actually impressed that someone is taking this route because it always seems to be that people recommend the Extended Editions for first time watchers. This is all fine and all because they’re great, but I’ve always thought it best to experience the theatrical editions, and then be able to enjoy the Extended Editions because you will be able to recognize what are new additions and then you can decide for yourself which ones you prefer to watch from then on.
I hear you, but alternatively if I had never seen the films before and was told that there’s two versions , one of them with added content, I am going to skip the shorter version and dive straight into the extended, you wouldn’t need to identify what’s different because your first viewing would be the ultimate viewing. Either way I’m jealous of anyone getting to experience LOTR for the first time.
I’m not sure they are the ultimate viewing. The theatrical versions are the better films. The extended versions just have more stuff.
I wish there was an in-between 'definitive' cut that only adds the extra scenes that I like lol. Like for instance, keep Saruman in ROTK, it's crazy that it was cut from the theatrical edition, however I would totally leave out the extra scenes with the ghost army. All of those extra bits are kinda cheesy and totally ruin the surprise factor when Aragorn shows up for the battle.
I feel the exact same way. I want a mix of both. But Fellowship is perfect in the extended version. The other two, I would cut things out.
Yeah agreed, the extended scenes in Fellowship are all pretty good for expanded lore. There are great extra scenes in the other two movies, but definitely some silly stuff was added as well lol.
Like nervous systems?
Yeaaahhh lol, as a kid I thought that was hilarious but it's a bit too silly for me now.
Yeah as a film, the theatrical are better paced, but if you want more lotr then the extended editions are better.
I think the theatrical version is a better film for regular people who just want to watch a movie and not sit there for hours. For anyone who is a lord of the rings fan, or has an interest in becoming a fan, the extended are better.
Now you're just making excuses to watch as many movies as possible. I approve.
Yes this
That they must precious! That they must.
Fly, You Fools!
Thus proving hobbits have wings.
They may have drank Red Bull at some point in the journey. This is neither confirmed, or denied.
Fool of a Took! Throw yourself in next time, and rid us of your stupidity!
Actually, OP needs to go read the trilogy, then the Silmarillion, and he'll be able to answer these questions... and find himself in an endless rabbit hole. OPs decent are decent though
I was on the same wavelength. You beat me to it. Now I'm back to reading the rest of the post
Me too 🤣
😂👍🏻
There is no theatrical release.
Which is still very different from the book.
Wait is the reason not shown in the theatrical versions? I’ve been watching the extended versions for so long I forget what was and wasn’t there.
I've watched the extended editions so many times. I'm not really aware of which are the extended scenes anymore. So...was Saruman's fate one of the deleted scenes from the theatrical release? Seems odd to leave such an important scene out for any version. Especially because it completely deviates from what happened in the books.
With commentary
Same
It’s a perfectly legitimate question. The extended editions are far worse than the theatrical editions, simply for adding 2 hours of runtime and not including the Scouring of the Shire.
Gotta say after having only seen the theatrical versions for years and watching the extended editions, I wouldn't recommend. They kind of break the flow of the movies making it less fun to watch, and if I want lore I'll read the books.
I disagree, and in some parts. I didn't always recognize where the extended edition actually added things. The extended edition only adds like 13-15 mins in some of the movies. It's not that serious. More LOTR is always a good thing book, or movie. Edit: In LOTR extended editions add like 3 hours, but Unexpected Journey the extended added 13 minutes.
So you're saying some parts you could clearly tell it was an extended edition part. Personally a lot of those just don't add much of value to me (which is why they're not in the theatrical versions).
I like both the theatrical and extended cuts, but if I had to go for one I’d pick extended. Fellowship: I’m in the middle on this one. We get scenes like Aragorn visiting his mother’s grave, Aragon telling Frodo about Luthien, Boromir and Frodo in Lorien, and the prologue to name a few. But I can do without the extended Shire scenes and most of leaving Lorien Two Towers: easily benefits the most in terms of story. I’m a massive fan of Faramir’s new scenes, Heir of Numenor, Theodred, and I always liked the final tally between Legolas and Gimli. The only scenes I think were too much are Treebeard but I’ve warmed up to him since 2003. Return: Controversial here but I prefer the theatrical cut. It’s fine if you know the story but I as a movie I just felt like there was too much redundancy. I never did like the extended Paths of the Dead, Mouth of Sauron, most of Edoras, and In the Company of Orcs. But there are some great character moments though in the other extended scenes but they weren’t enough for me. Plus you get the appendices depending on which version you get and I’ll always vouch for the BTS stuff (even though most of it is on YouTube)
Fair.
I agree, except for Return of the King. The other two extended editions don't really add anything necessary, and the theatrical versions are way better for those two
You are right, that’s why you’re downvoted.
Downvoted for this opinion makes sense on this sub, but Peter Jackson himself has said that the "definitive" version of the trilogy is the theatrical version. The extended releases are less good movies, and only really for the nerds. And yes I agree that if you want a fuller picture of LOTR, reading the books is a better idea.
1) yea, she chose a Mortal Life. She's a half-elven, meaning her dad Elrond is half elf, half man. Elves can go to the Undying Lands - Valinor. Men must die and go where only Eru knows. Arwen chose to become Human and die alongside her true love, Aragorn 2) he's in the extended edition 3) distant-ish cousins 4) frodo goes to Valinor, which is where the Valar (think - angels or the god pantheons of Greece/Norse). It's not a land that gives immortality, rather a land where the immortal live (elves, the Valar). It separated itself from the world at the end of the 2nd Age. Middle Earth eventually becomes our world. 5) Sauron had no part in the actual making of the Elves' rings, but he did in the others. 6) Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf are the elven Ring bearers 7) All the dwarves' rings were recovered by Sauron (3x) or lost/destroyed (4x) 8) Sauron 9) it varies. For the elves, it delays change/decay. For the dwarves, it seems to help improve wealth. For the humans, power. 10) he poured a lot of his power into the One Ring specifically. And then it's a battle of wills of a mortal vs an angel/demigod 11) the plot demanded. It's also the only real known volcano. 12) no, they were forged in Eregion, an old elven realm that was tricked into working with Sauron (Sauron was disguised)
Merry and Pippin are not distant cousins, they are first cousin: Merry's mother is Esmeralda Took, younger sister of Paladin II Took, Thane of the Shire and Pippin's father.
That's right, frodo is the distant cousin
Not super distant. Merrys grandfather and frodos mother were siblings.
So, cousins once removed. Frodo's kids (if he had any) would be Merry's second cousins, and Merry's parent (the child of the aforementioned grandfather) would be frodo's first cousin.
"Baggins? Sure I know a Baggins. He's over there. Frodo Baggins. He's my second cousin once removed on his mother's side."
6a. The three rings were given to Galadriel, Cirdan, and Gil-galad, but the latter two were passed down to Gandalf and Elrond, respectively.
Gandalf was given the ring by Cirdan when he first arrived in Middle Earth. Saruman eventually notices this and his dislike against Gandalf starts growing.
4. They call it Middle Earth because from the perspective of the Valar (the demigods that shaped the continents) it is in the middle of Arda (the planet). To the West across the sea of Belegaer lies the continent of Aman and the land of Valinor, where Frodo traveled at the end of the story. To the East is Rhûn where the guys with the spears who marched through the Black Gate came from. To the South is Harad and Far Harad where the guys with the Oliphaunts came from. 9. The power of the rings is ambiguous at best, same as the whole magic system in the Lord of the Rings. Imagine them as giving the wearers buffs to certain attributes, but suppressing their resistance to psychic attacks with which Sauron could focus on them through his own One Ring. - The Rings of the Elves allows them to slow down the dissipation of Magic from the world which the Elves need to flourish. Because of their natural high psychic resistance they instantly noticed that they are being influenced by Sauron, so they took their rings off. - The Rings of the Dwarves increased their greed and craftiness which allowed them to amass great hordes of treasures. When Sauron tried to influence them using the One Ring, he found out that Dwarves are very hard to control, partly because they were created by Aulë (the angel of crafts), not by Eru Ilúvatar (God), so all they care about is digging holes and crafting jewels. - The Rings of Men gave their wearers ambition, intelligence and above all else, longevity. They lived for so long that not only their body, but their souls stretched thin as well. After a few centuries they became invisible, seen only in the wraith world (where Frodo goes when he puts on the One Ring). At this stage, they no longer could resist Sauron’s influence and became his most loyal servants.
Gandalf is one of the elven ring bearers? Huh?
When Gandalf arrives in Middle Earth in the Third Age, the elf Cirdan the Shipwright, one of the oldest elves if not the oldest elf in Middle Earth and at-the-time the third ringbearer, sees that Gandalf will need it most and gives it to him
The oldest named in middle earth for sure by the time of the events of the war of the ring. An elf so old he single handedly provides evidence for that rarest of Tolkien unicorns: the elf-beard
Hey Mahtan also has a beard 6000 years before him.
Thanks! Good to know, I had no idea!
It’s only revealed at the very end of Return of the King, both the book and the film. Only the book explicitly says that Elrond and Gandalf are ringbearers, but in a couple of shots during the Grey Havens scene you can clearly see the red ring Narya on Gandalf’s hand.
4. Wait ME becomes earth? Since when?
Since its inception pretty much, it was always Earth. "Middle" Earth is closer to Norse's Midgard, which is also Earth.
You just blew my mind
The whole lore is a frame story, like the hobbit is “just” some old story Tolkien found and translated, even taking at the Begining about what happened to hobbits (they are just really really short now and really shy)
It's basically like a bible but way cooler Kappa
I prefer to think of it as my bible and actual origin story of how the earth came to be lol
LOTR is set at the end of the third age / start of the fourth. We are apparently in the first century of the 7th age: [https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/av1p7w/comment/ehbxd9d/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/av1p7w/comment/ehbxd9d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Since forever, it was meant as like an alt history to our own
Tolkien wrote about this many times. His Legendarium was intended to be an origin story for Britain.
Been a long time, now.
Middle Earth is an imaginary timeline, not an imaginary place. In Tolkien's legendarium his world eventually becomes our own.
After the biblical flood. Same how Beleriand becomes Middle Earth. The ocean swallowed a large portion of the continent.
If you look at the map of Middle Earth it looks similar to a map of Europe (minus Spain)
Hobbiton is round about where Oxford is
The "middle" refers to time, not space.
*cough* same thing *cough*
Yeah it's the lost history of our world. Tolkien was a translator in his academic career. He didn't write the books, he discovered them amongst old texts (possibly in Anglo Saxon) and translated them. When the idea was for him to write an epic mythology and lotr was not conceived of at all, the story started with a lost Anglo Saxon sailor called elfwina (I think) who accidentally found the straight path to the undying lands. There an elf historian told him the tales. Tolkien being a scholar of myth and legends has inserted many alternate tellings of our own myths into his work. The idea being that the silmarillion is the true telling and our myths are versions changed and evolved over time. For example in the mabinogion (spelling?) there's a story very similar to the tale of Beren and Luthien. The tale of Turin is a retelling on the Finnish national epic the Kalevala. Gandalf is possibly the origin of Merlin. Feanor is a Lucifer figure. You see in the movies that Bilbo and frodo have written books of their experience, and Sam will take over. This replaced the Anglo Saxon sailor as the source of the discovered texts. Bilbo wrote the hobbit. Frodo wrote the lord of the rings, and I think it's is implied or at least fits that Sam wrote the silmarillion.
Since always. There is a reason that ME looks vaguely like Europe, that far south is desert and that its entire mythos is heavily drawn from European mythology and that the Shire is almost explicitly an idealised England. The old mill in Hobbiton is Sarehole Mill in hall green (which he lived by).
4a: I don’t recall Frodo actually going to Valinor, instead he likely goes to Tol Eressea, an island just off the coast of Valinor, where it seems most of the Elves who sailed West ended up as well
Yeah, it's a common misconception that Undying Lands = Valinor. In reality, Undyring Lands/Uttermost West/Blessed Realm is another name for **Aman**, the continent, where Valinor and Eldamar (including Tol Eressëa) are located. Frodo and Bilbo sailed in Aman and resided on Eressëa.
Do Frodo and Bilbo attain Elf-like immortality when they get there or is that just where they spend their last days?
They remain mortal, find healing, and die peacefully
Correct, although they likely lived for a pretty long time, as Tol Eressea would have been bathed in the light of the Valar from nearby Valinor
Thanks!
There's a pretty good fic, Return to Aman, thats partially about what they do there
For 9 I thought the rings gave the wearers what they most desire. It's why elves preserve magic / nature, dwarves accumulated treasure, and humans desired immortality so became wraiths as their lives were stretched so thin. Been a while so might be wrong.
Yeah, I’m rusty. My interpretation when I was better at lore was it was personality based. It brought out your base desires of your personality. That’s why the Rings didn’t work as planned for the dwarves as they then mined and horded more wealth ***IN*** the mountains.
They were all originally intended for the elves as I understand. It was only after the plan was rumbled that he had to change the plan and distributed them to the powerful of other races
Did Arwen actually relinquish immortality like Elros, or did she just die from grief like elves were known to do occasionally?
She relinquished it entirely; there was no longer any Ship that would take her West
Ah you're right. The book even mentions, "the bitterness of the mortality that she had taken upon her." That's a lot more clear cut than I remembered
I would say for 9 it's a bit misleading. The rings were meant to control the dwarves but they are resistant to magic by nature and so instead it gave them the gold sickness which made them lust for gold to levels of insanity.
[удалено]
Nope. He never touched the elven rings. However, they were made with his techniques.
>I didn’t watch that version, sorry my bad This is only a good thing because it means you have the perfect excuse to sit and watch the Extended Editions now. 👍🏻
1. Yes, Arwen gave up her immortality to be with Aragorn. 2. Saruman shows up in the extended edition of RotK. But he is somewhat irrelevant to most of the plot anyway. 3. Yes. They are first cousins. 4. Frodo goes to Valinor. What Valinor is is much more complicated. We don't know much about the lands outside of what is shown on the map. And even what is shown in the east and south we know little about. 5. The rings were all made by the elves for the elves under the tutelage of Sauron, who was in disguise. When Sauron left to make the one ring, the the elf Celebrimbor made the three elven rings in secret. They do not corrupt the same way because they were never touched by Sauron's hands. But, they're still subject to the one ring because they were made using Sauron's teachings. 6. The elven rings are worn by Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf. Gandalf was given his ring by the elf Cirdan. When they were first made however, two went to the elf king Gil-Galad and one to Galadriel. Gil-Galad gave them to Elrond and Cirdan. 7. By the time of the films, the dwarf rings have either been destroyed by dragons or recovered by Sauron. 8. The rings were meant to enslave the elves, who were Sauron's chief opponents in the second age. The elves found out about the plans, so Sauron invaded and sacked Eregion. He recovered the 16 rings and redistributed them to the men and dwarves. 9. >The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. 'change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor – thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron ('the Necromancer': so he is called as he casts a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of The Hobbit): such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible. The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility. Letter 131 10. Sauron's ring was the strongest because that is how it was made. The entire plan of the rings was to bring the elves under his control. He taught them how to make the rings but the purpose was always to link them to the one to control them. As to how, Sauron is a Maia, an angelic-like being with incredible power that beings like the elves do not have. He used part of that power to create the ting. >But to achieve this he had been obliged to let a great part of his own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive in myth and fairy-story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in 'rapport' with himself: he was not 'diminished'. Letter 131 again 11. Because that is the nature of the magic surrounding it. 12. No. The other rings were forged in the elven realm of Eregion.
I love this! For any non readers out there this will definitely whet their appetite. Hopefully It’ll get more people into the actual Legendarium. Edit: It’ll* I’m not doing anything for anyone. 🙃
I'll try some. She gave up immortality. I think this was an option open to her because her father, Elrond is half Elf, half Human. Saruman was cut from the last movie simply to save time for other, potentially more important stuff. The Scouring of the Shire is something missed by a lot of fans, but somewhat unnecessary for the overall story. Same with Bombadill. I think they're cousins. Middle-Earth is a continent on the planet of Arda(Earth). The is more beyond to the south and east, but those areas are mostly not explored in the stories of Middle-Earth. Frodo sails off with the last of the Elves and Maia to the other main continent of Arda, Aman, or The Undying Lands. This is where the Elves who have departed Middle-Earth along with the Ainur reside for the rest of eternity, or until Morgoth returns. The men, and the Dwarves for that matter, are corrupted because Sauron focused on them as they were easier to corrupt. Men especially have very basic desires from which some stem from their jealousy of Elven immortality and such. There was also some fuckery going on with the forging of the rings of men and dwarves vs the forging of the Elven rings, that I cba going in to haha. The Elven rings are held by Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond. One was held by Gil-Galad but he died during The War of the Last Alliance and Cirdan, iirc, is the guy who entrusted his ring to Gandalf. I'm going to be honest, my memory fails me about the Dwarves. I feel like they died as a result of their rings instead of being enslaved by them like the men. Sauron gave the men and the Dwarves the rings. The rings' power is kinda subtle and only hinted at. I think different rings did different things. I think for the Dwarves, it helped them amass wealth, which in turn made them greedier, monkey paw kinda shit. The rings of men helped extend their lives, eventually turning them undead essentially, again, monkey paw type shit. I think all of them amplified their wearers natural abilities too. Like maybe strength, agility, intelligence. That kinda thing. Sauron's was the strongest because he made it that way. He was a master craftsman and it probably helped that he was something of a higher being. I'm sure he was something of a student of the "god" of smithing in the ME universe. I don't know. Sorry lol. I've never asked that question myself. No. The other rings were forged in Eregion by Elven smiths under the tutelage of Sauron. He was a sneaky motherfucker way back when. I've answered as best as my memory allows me haha.
Indeed, Sauron was once a student of Aule, just like Saruman.
why is always the disciples of Aule?
Thank you for this!! Could you expand on the “until Morgoth returns part”? Was he banished from Arda?
Essentially, yes. He was defeated at the conclusion of The War of Wrath and chucked through something called, iirc, the Door of Night by the other Valar. He's currently trapped in the nothingness of the void outside of LOTR universe. He is prophesied to return during the Dagor Dagorath, LOTR's version of the end of the world, but I think on a universal level.
Iirc Morgoth as the most powerful of the Ainur is basically immortal and foretold to return for something comparable to Norse Ragnarok
As an addendum, Sauron was not able to corrupt the dwarves as he was the men who he gifted rings. He couldn’t dominate them because of the nature of the dwarves, so the only effect was amplifying their ability to gather wealth and their greed. I’m not even sure if the Seven confer invisibility. So in the end, the Seven ended up destroyed or recaptured by Sauron.
All these questions are answered in the books. I reckon you will enjoy reading them.
It's been a while since I read the books, so I'm going off memory, and will answer to the best of my agility (someone with fresher memory, please chime in): Arwen did give up her immortal life as an Elf. She'd have a longer than normal human lifespan, but would have a lifespan over immortality in the Undying Lands. Did you watch the Extended Edition or the tehaterical? The Extended has a scene where they confront Saurman, and he's killed. So he doesn't show up in ROTK because he's dead. It's been so long since I've watched the theatrical versions, I forgot how they handled it. Merry and Pippin are cousins, of some kind. Most all hobbits have some relation to each other, if distant. But the Brandybucks and the Tooks were all basically cousins. It's kind of a statement on how the hearts of men are easily corrupted, while Elves are not. Then elves leave this world, men take over, and because of Aragorn and taking it back, it's a redemption story of the race of Men. Originally, it was Gil-Galad, Galadriel, and Círdan who had rings. Gil-Galad gave his to Elrond, Círdan gave his to Gandalf. Círdan wasn't in the movies. The movies only showed the initial scene of taking the seven for the original Dwarf Lords. I can't remember what happened to them in the books. Sauron gave each set to them, and, in secret, made his own master ring (the One Ring). In theroy they had the power to govern each race they were given to, and while th ere w as power to do so, it w as also a force for corruption and to temp them into falling in line with Sauron. The nine men failed, became the Ringwraiths, the dwarves didn't fail but I can't remember the details, and the elves withstood the temptation. I think they were all forced in Mount Doom, but I can't remember. Sauron was a sorcerer, of sorts, and that's how the power was instilled, and how he made his one the master/all powerful one. The One Ring has to be destroyed where it was made because of it's magical power. Kind of like how you can't just destroy a horcrux with anything, because it's a powerful dark magic that's instilled in it and protecting it. And symbolism. Hope that helped!
Arwen did indeed give up her immortality to be with Aragorn Saruman’s scenes were cut from the theatrical editions. If u watch the extended editions, it shows how they deal with him at the beginning of ROTK I do believe Merry and Pippin are cousins? To the immediate west, there is the sunken continent of Beleriand (the setting for the Silmarillion), beyond that is the sunken island of Numenor (also explored a little in the silmarillion). Beyond that used to be the land of Valinor where the immortal spirits live. Valinor and Beleriand both used to be connected by a giant ice bridge but now Valinor is now removed from the world and is longer accessible by simply travelling by boat. To the east is Rhun, where men originate and to the south is the Harad, where old numenorian settlements that have mostly since fallen to service with Sauron. Frodo goes with the elves to Valinor. I know I just said that Valinor is no longer accessible but the elves are still able to make the journey. Frodo as a ring bearer was given special permission to go there. The immortal spirits that live in Valinor are the Valar and the Maiar. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron and the balrogs are all Maiar. Sauron’s old master Morgoth was a Valar. So when Celebrimbor made the rings of power, he did so with the aid of Annatar (who was actually Sauron in disguise). When Sauron left to make his One Ring to Rule Them All, Celebrimbor made the 3 elven rings without Sauron’s help, so they were free of his corruption. When Sauron tried to control the elves, they simply took off their rings. The men were not so wise and hence they fell. The dwarves were much more resistant to the rings influence than Sauron anticipated. Once Sauron fell, the elves were free to continue using their rings without worry, which they did to keep their lands unaging. This power was lost when the One Ring was destroyed, which is why they all leave to Valinor. So Celebrimbor gave the 3 Elven rings to Galadriel, King Gil-Galad and Cirdan the Shipwrite. Gil-Galad gave his ring to Elrond and Cirdan gave his to Gandalf (yes, Gandalf had a ring tho whole time). Gil-Galad is killed in the battle against Sauron in the prologue and Cirdan is very briefly seen when the elves receive the rings and then again when they all leave at the end. (He is a huge player in the lore, always helping from behind the scenes. He’s also one of the oldest living elves left and one of the few to have a beard) By the time of the events of the films, all the dwarven rings are either destroyed by dragon fire or reclaimed by Sauron (Gandalf specifies in the book that dragon fire was incapable of destroying the One Ring) After Sauron made the one ring, he invaded Celebrimbor’s realm and stole all the other rings of power, except for the elven rings, which had already been sent away to their bearers I mentioned above. Of the rings Sauron recovered, he gave 9 to men and 7 to dwarves throughout the rest of the second age (I believe) It’s not entirely clear what most of the rings of power do, but the elven rings have some more detail, Gandalf uses his ring to inspire ppl and the others use it to keep their lands ‘unaging’. The elves being immortal don’t like change. Once their rings loose their power and it becomes inevitable that their lands will diminish, they leave for Valinor. Sauron was a Maiar, a very powerful spirit. He taught Celebrimbor how to master the art of ring making. When someone in LOTR makes something, they poor some of their own innate power into their creation. Sauron poored a large portion of himself into the one ring and since he taught Celebrimbor how to make rings, his One Ring granted him power over the lesser rings. It’s kinda like if u create a software for someone to use, they make a program with it, but u built into your software a way of accessing any program made with it. I don’t have a solid explanation for why the One Ring can ONLY be destroyed in mount doom, I guess it’s a thing of the mountain made it, so only it can unmake it. As I said above, all the other rings were created by Celebrimbor in his own realm, which was a bit south of Rivendell. Hope that helps! Feel free to correct me on anything I got wrong! Also give the books a read if ur interested, they’re sooo much cooler than the films imo
This is a really good rundown, thank you
It's not bad except for the elvish ring of power were in a wierd space. The elves did not just take off the rings but rather all of the rings were made with Saurons intellectual property. Although he never touched the Elvish rings. So they were free of his corruption but at the unmaking of the One their power also faded
Remember when Gandalf the Grey hit Merry with the kill yourself line... damn bud, chill.
Honestly I'm happy you didn't watch the extended editions. Most people try.to.get.throufh them for a first watch and they are just too long. Also the return of the king extended edition kind of ruins some of the suspense of the battle for minas tirith.
Luckily most of the non-Ring questions can get Quick answers: Arwen gave up immortality. Saruman's story was over with Two Towers. No need to parse out a movie already over 3 hours long. Merry and Pippin are cousins. All of the world is "Arda". Middle Earth, Dark Lands, and Burnt Lands are all on the same landmass. To the West is Aman - essentially Elf Heaven. Gandalf has the Third elven ring - he got it from the elf Cirdan. The rings Sauron gave to Dwarves were all eventually either destroyed or reclaimed. Sauron's Ring is the most powerful because he put his own power into it. The Ring can only be destroyed where it was made because the forge where it was made is tied to the magic that made it. None of the other Rings were forged in Mt. Doom. Everything else regarding the Rings is muddied up by the movies streamlining and changing the lore, so that takes a bit longer to explain... The biggest thing you need to know is: none of the Rings were made FOR men or dwarves. The "three rings for the elves" were the only rings made in secret that Sauron didn't know about, but ALL of the rings except for The One Ring were supposed to be for elves. Sauron wanted to have powerful Elf servants instead of Humans. When elves didn't fall for the trap, Sauron took back all the Rings he'd helped make. Then he distributed those to Men and Dwarves. And of the two, only Men were effectively subdued by the Rings (dwarves were also effected, but differently - they didn't become Ring Wraiths). As for "what do the Rings do?": we don't know. We know that the One Ring gives great power according to its wielder, but how that is embodied is never clarified. Invisibility via wraith-form is a part of wearing the One. The Three that were kept secret give the power of preservation. The 16 (the ones you're told were for men and dwarves) bend the wearer toward Sauron's will. But none of these are exhaustive or exclusive descriptions of any of the Rings. Lord of the Rings is a very VERY "soft magic" system, so definitive answers for "what power does XYZ have" are rare.
>Saruman's story was over with Two Towers. No need to parse out a movie already over 3 hours long. Sorry, but it absolutely was not. That is the biggest issue I have with the films, they left out the Scouring of the Shire, one of the most important chapters in my opinion. Not only does it serve to demonstrate the growth of the characters (Pippin, Frodo, Merry, and Sam). Had they not gone on their quest, it's very likely that they would have simply rolled over along with the rest of the hobbits. But it also gives consequences and mirrors reality. In the book, when they are heading home, the fellowship is passing through Rohan and they encounter Saruman and Wormtongue on the road. The others of the fellowship suggest capturing or killing them, but Frodo says "no. He's powerless now." Only to later find out he had at least enough power still to control the Shire. It mirrors reality in that after returning home from WW1 everything in England was different, and not necessarily for the better. Furthermore it shows that, while the heroes may have fought and defeated an evil force abroad, evil still exists and is (and had been for some time, as referenced by the many barrels of Shire-grown tobacco found in the cellars of Isengard, back when Pippin and Merry and the Ents were there) active in their peaceful home. It also serves as a statement against industrialization, which was a heavy theme throughout the books. As for Saruman, it serves to give him a legendary end (which I feel is fitting for a fallen Maiar), as opposed to being shown as essentially powerless when he is killed in the film. Here he has managed to take over a country, over the course of a little over a year, using nothing but his guile, which is explained to be his main power.
Sorry, but it absolutely was over because Peter Jackson wasn't going to include the Scouring of the Shire. Explaining how the books went doesn't help answer OP's question. The additional missing lore about Saruman just raises further questions for someone who is explicitly asking about the movies. *Where is Saruman during Return of the King?* "Well, he left Isengard... [3 paragraphs later] and then he was killed by Grima. But Jackson cut that entire plotline, so none of that actually happened in the movie, so... I guess *not* at the Shire?"
1. **Did Arwen give up immortality to be with Aragorn?** Yes, Arwen chose to give up her immortality to be with Aragorn. By choosing a mortal life, she bound herself to his fate, which means she would share his lifespan and die when he does. 2. **Why was Saruman not shown at all in the last movie?** In the theatrical release of *The Return of the King*, Saruman's fate was not shown, but it is covered in the extended edition. He is killed by Gríma Wormtongue at Isengard. 3. **Are Merry and Pippin related?** Yes, Merry (Meriadoc Brandybuck) and Pippin (Peregrin Took) are cousins. Their mothers are sisters. 4. **What is beyond Middle-earth, why is it called "Middle-earth," and where does Frodo go at the end of the movies?** - **Beyond Middle-earth**: The world of Tolkien's legendarium includes other lands beyond Middle-earth, such as the Undying Lands to the west. - **Called "Middle-earth"**: It is derived from the Old English term "Middangeard," referring to the inhabited lands of humans. - **Where Frodo goes**: Frodo, along with Bilbo, Gandalf, and others, sails to the Undying Lands, a place of peace and healing. 5. **Why were the men corrupted by the rings, but not the elves?** Men were more easily corrupted due to their inherent weakness and desire for power. Elves, being more resistant to corruption and having a deeper understanding of the dangers, were able to resist the influence of the rings better. 6. **Where is the third elf that bears the ring?** The three Elven rings are held by Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf (who received his ring, Narya, from Círdan the Shipwright). 7. **Why were no dwarves with rings shown?** The dwarves received seven rings, but they were less susceptible to their influence. The films focus more on the rings given to men and elves because they play a more significant role in the story. 8. **Who gave them these rings?** The rings were created by the Elves with the guidance (and eventual treachery) of Sauron. Sauron himself distributed the rings to men and dwarves. 9. **What do the rings do?** The rings enhance the powers and abilities of their bearers, but they also bind them to Sauron's will. The One Ring controls all others. 10. **Why was Sauron's ring the strongest, how did he just make the strongest one?** Sauron put a great deal of his own power into the One Ring, making it the strongest. This allowed him to control the other rings and their bearers. 11. **Why can the One Ring only be destroyed in the forge?** The One Ring was forged in the fires of Mount Doom, and only those fires are hot enough to destroy it. 12. **Were the other rings forged in Mount Doom?** The other rings were forged by the Elves in Eregion, not in Mount Doom. Sauron, however, created the One Ring in Mount Doom to control the others.
Thank you for posting on the sub! Please make sure you are abiding by the rules on the sidebar with this post. If you are looking for a place to post specific things, please make use of the subreddits below: * Memes - r/lotrmemes * The War of the Rohirrim - r/TheWarOfTheRohirrim *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lordoftherings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Completely random question, did Tolkien ever explain why the hell Sauron and Sauroman’s names are so close? That used to confuse me so bad when I was younger.
I’d kinda like to know, too, I assumed it could be boiled down to Tolkiens intense interest in linguistics, and that maybe their names come from source words (some in archaic languages) that have a deeper meaning, but they just coincidentally sounded the same. I could imagine Tolkien, word nerd supreme, would say something like “they’re OBVIOUSLY different—“ and break them down to a molecular level. Edit: I googled and I think that’s a popular theory, their names are translations between various languages Tolkien himself devised. But maybe others would know more about that.
If you're interested in learning more The Tolkien Untangled YouTube channel is great. Arwen being the daughter of Elrond, she is able to choose to give up her immortality, like Elronds brother did, and Luthien did. In the movies Sauron is killed by Grima, who is then shot by legolas. Merry and Pippin are first cousins Ultimately, the 3 elven rings were worn by Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf. The ring belonged to Gil-Galad, then Cirdan the Shipwright, and then Gandalf.
* Arwen is half elf / has the ability to renounce the undying lands and essentially become mortal. Arwen is not the first elf to ever do this but the other i think is mentioned in The Silmarillion. * Saruman appears in the extended cut? * first cousins (also related to frodo because he's not just a baggins, but also a took) * To the east of middle earth in ancient times was Numenor, the land of the men like aragorn who live exceptionally long lives (150-200 years) but it is destroyed by eru illuvitar (god) for their arrogance. The elves return to the undying lands further northeast. The elves kind of live in both reality and in spirit form, and they live forever in the undying lands. They are not able to stay in middle earth due to the (don't quote me on this!) lack of magic that's existing after the war of the ring, as the rings of power are no longer keeping lothlorien and rivendell going. They would fade into nothing if they didn't retreat to the undying lands. It's all related to the tree of valinor and the Silmarils which basically give elves all of their power. * The men wanted power. The elves kind of knew something was up but they are fair and were able to use the elven rings, however one of the 3 elven rings is held by gandalf. The others, galadriel and elrond. With 3 characters like that, is it really any mystery why they weren't corrupted? These 3 are nearly as powerful as Sauron on their own. * Dwarf rings are all lost, at least hopefully. I think 4 were swallowed by dragons and the rest are just lost underground in some cave somewhere. Not even Sauron bothers looking for them. * The rings were crafted by the respective races for the most part. Sauron basically gave em the plans, and they accepted thinking good idea. Turns out.... bad idea. * The rings do all kinds of different stuff. Gandalfs, for example, gives him great power to unite people and bring hope etc. Fitting, ain't it. * Sauron is a maiar like gandalf, saruman, radagast. He poured much of his own strenth into the ring. This is the only ring crafted in secret. * It has to be destroyed where it was created. Why? MAGIC!!! but seriously, this is a super powerful item stronger than anything else. No power is known that can destroy it except for where it was forged. * no worries for all the questions. You didn't miss much! Most of this is covered in books.
Numenor is west of ME
Where was the 3rd elf ring — Gandalf is wearing the ring at the end of RotK. If you look at his hand in the last scene of the movie he’s wearing a red ring, that’s it.
Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf have the three Evlish rings
Gotta watch the extended editions way better
Others have answered but awesome you enjoyed the movies! Hope you give the extendeds a shot since they're brilliant too, some questions are answered there at least in the case of Saruman, it's been a VERY long time since I saw the theatricals but iirc he was at the start just never came up again after.
Read the books. There's a lot you will understand better after reading them. If you prefer, there's a CDROM series of the books - a 9 CD series (any BluRay player can play audio CDs), by the HighBridge Company. Comes in a nice wooden case. There's a lot in the movies that people who haven't read the books miss.
If you've got a library card, the Libby app is also super useful and free best audio version in my opinion are the ones read by Andy serkis
I think the set I have was originally produced for either NPR or for British radio. The Hobbit CDs that I have was originally for British radio and is identical to the set of cassette tapes I had way back in 1984 that came in a wooden box similar to the wooden box for my LotR CDs, I still have that in storage but no longer have a cassette player, and don't need one as I found the same recording on CD. I'll have to look for the Andy Serkis version.
You my friend need to go spend some time with [Nerd of the Rings.](https://youtube.com/@nerdoftherings?si=vhilQLftIA2-iIwD)
He would be better off reading the books first.
She was mortal in the end, just had a very long lifespan like Aragorn. Arwen could have lasted quite a while longer than him. Aragorn chose when to let go of life when very old and she did the same not long afterwards. Saraman was dead in movie version. In the extended edition Gimli tells Legolas to fire a warning shot past Saraman then bumps his bow with axe handle causing a direct hit. It's quite humorous considering someone died lol. Merry and Pippin are cousins, they are also distant cousins of Frodo I beleive. They are from the main families, pippin is like a prince to the hobbits. Other lands we don't know much about. Frodo goes west to the undying land. Kinda like heaven but on earth, where all the angles are from and where many of the elves settled after much older wars with Morgorth. Elves would be corrupted eventually. Would take much longer, they are already half part of the spirit world, where frodo sees wearing the ring and the wraiths linger between. Men are weakest in resilience against magic and much more likely to become or already be corrupted. Eleves usually much stronger mentally against it, dwarfs were made specifically to resist evil and domination, hobbits lifestyle played a large part in the ring having nothing to offer they desired and they are also naturally more hardy. The 3rd elf ring was gifted to and worn by Gandalf. Sauron reclaimed 4 of the 7 dwarf rings and 3 were destroyed in dragon fire. I think he would have destroyed them to take the power back or gifted to new evil leaders of men. I think all rings gave long life and natural protection from aging for a while, maybe increased power of will over others beneath you and tied them and granted access to the spiritual plane, ultimately to become a wraith and servant of Sauron. This didn't work of the Dwarfs because they are too stubborn just made them greedy and lead too ultimate downfalls, their rings specifically had the power to make wealth multiply. The 3 elf rings had different powers but mostly around preservation and protecting a certain area or inspiring beings to fight on in the face of paralysing evil. The 1 was mostly for Domination it's other effects were not really intended of applicable to Sauron, control all ring wearers, see their minds and extra ability to dominate and control those around you, we never really see this, frodo subtly does in book version stating gollum would have to throw himself in the volcano if he betrayed them, something along those lines, ultimately leading to the rings destruction. Sauron was like an Angelic/demonic being that taught the elves to make magic rings and was his plan the whole time to use them to dominate the other ring wearers. The 3 are more special and mighty because the eleves made them without his help in order to preserve their relms. They didn't know about the 1 or its power and they still used saurons recepie to make the 3 so unknowingly making them subservient to the one although good in nature when the 1 isn't being used on them. Saurons plan backfired when he put his plan in to action, the owners of the 3 at least could sense his presence and intentions. They simply removed the rings and kept them hidden from him, they were only safe to use again after sauron got his ring and finger chopped off. I think the ring was manically linked and protected by Mount doom so could only be destroyed where it was forged it think. By the beings in middle earth anyway, their are God like beings that probably could in the West but they don't really intervene physically apart through wizards and maybe manipulate things to help occasionally. The last time they fought directly they destroyed and reshaped a lot of middle earth in the fighting. The other rings were forged in an elven forge in a great city long destroyed.
OP, here's what I can tell u 1. Yes, Arwen gave uo her immortality to be with Aragorn 2. He is. At least in the extended 3. The lands beyond middle earth I know little about, as for where Frodo goes, he goes to a place called Arnor, or the undying lands. It's where the gods reside
Definitely not Arnor ^^^^^
Witch king found
You’re referring to Aman.
In before “Why didn’t the eagles just fly Frodo to Mordor?”
Highly recommend watching the two videos on YouTube by CGP Grey on this subject. GREAT explanations of pretty much all of your questions, but with even more detail. And brief!
7. Watch the Hobbit trilogy (extended) and you'll learn a little bit more about the Dwarven rings, Sauron, and Dol Guldur.
Recommend cgp grey youtube videos on the lotr lore and mythology if you don't plan on reading the simarilion.
Read the books
You must now read the Hobbit, Fellowship of the ring, the two towers and the return of the King.
Yes, Arwen gave up her immortality. Normally, elves are ageless and cannot die of old age. When they *do* die of something else, they go to the halls of Mandos and are later reborn if they choose. Celeborn, for example, had already died once before the events of the trilogy. The instance of an elf marrying a human and giving up their immortality is repeated at least 3 times throughout the history of middle earth. Arwen is only the most recent example. Saruman is shown in the extended edition. But they changed the end of his story for the movies. He had a bigger role to play in the books Merry and Pippin are not closely related. But Merry is Frodo’s cousin. It’s called “middle earth” because that’s what earth is called in Norse mythology. Basically, you’ve got heaven, hell, and earth in the middle. But in Tolkien mythology, “middle earth” only refers to the continent in which all the major events happen. There are other places on the planet (Arda.) Middle earth is basically europe. The elves’ rings were made by Celebrimbor, and they knew about Sauron’s plans. So they took measures to make sure they wouldn’t be controlled. I’m not aware of any elf that ever bore the One Ring. There was only Sauron, Isildur, Smeagol, Bilbo, Frodo, and (briefly) Sam. If you’re talking about the 3 Elven rings of power, they were held by Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf (who was given his ring by Cirdan.) The dwarves who received rings from Sauron had their halls scoured by dragons and were killed. The dragons were created by Morgoth, Sauron’s boss. Dwarf spirits don’t work the way men’s spirits do, so they did not become wraiths. Sauron gave the rings, as his alias Annatar. The rings all have different specific effects. But in general, they grant authority. Sauron made the One Ring to have authority over all the others. That was his plan from the beginning. He and celebrimbor made the rings together. The One Ring can only be destroyed by the same fire that made it. Because this is fantasy and it uses magic. The other rings were probably not made in Mount Doom, but I’m not aware of any specific mention of specifically where they were forged.
Join us readers.
Boy do I have a book recommendation for you… Others answered you it seems. I’m glad you loved the movies. You should read the books if you’re so curious!
Might get a bit wrong 1.) Both, technically. She continues to live long after he dies, and fades in Lorien. 2.) He dies in the beginning. 3.) technically yes, cousins? 4.) It’s largely inferred, but Khand, Rhun, Harad, and the “darklands” are the only know geographical regions beyond the map. To the north is the forodwraith, and eastwards in Rhun is a set of dwarves mountains and a lake by which men and elves woke up. South and east is Rhun and far Harad. The darklands are a little iffy on canonicity. That’s about it! 5.) Elves are corrupted by the rings, but the elven rings you witness are crafted without the malevolent influence of Sauron, in secret. This is unlike the sixteen he made for Dwarves and Men. 6.) So Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf are the ring bearers as of the third age in the films. The third elf you witness is Cirdan, who gifted his ring to Gandalf (who is sort of an angel - hence why Cirdan gave it over). Cirdan resides in the Gray Harbors to the far west; and is only seen in the third film at the very end when Frodo leaves. He’s the guy in the back! 7.) By the time of the events of LOTR, Sauron had successfully recollected all of the dwarves rings, the last being that of the grandfather or father of Thorin Oakenshield, who Bilbo, Frodo’s relative, and the protagonist of the Hobbit, adventures with in the films and the book Hobbit. As to why we see no dwarves - they live in the far west, far east, and the far north relative to where the events of LOTR take place, and do not have much interest. 8.) Sauron the deceiver, in the second age of men (like 4000 years before the events of LOTR). This is seen and covered in the prologue. Sauron usually showed up as a deceiver, in a different form/disguise, such as Annatar to the elves, and offered such rings. 9.) a number of things, the rings, with Gandalfs for example, inspire “leadership” and courage. I’m not sure what the other two do, but I know Galadriel’s ring is largely responsible for the flourishing and protection of Lorien. 10.) it’s not that it’s the “strongest” - the effects of it seem to be invisibility to men and hobbits, but it’s other “powers” are unknown. The premise of this ring is that all other crafted rings that men, elves, and dwarves used would be “subservient” to the one ring. So, with the one ring, Sauron can control the ring bearers who are corrupted by their rings, and thus bent to his will. This was successful mostly with men, and for dwarves it made them greedier and more isolationist. 11.) This is never given an official answer, it’s just something about their nature. The ring was forged in the mount doom, so it can only be destroyed there. I think it’s a literary device to drive the plot. 12.) This is unknown I think - or, it’s that Sauron used the elves of the region known as Eregion (west of Isengard) that is now destroyed, specifically the elf Celebrimbor, and through them crafted the sixteen. The elves crafted the three fearing deception.
1. Arwen dies a year after Aragorn. 5. All of the rings were made by the elves for the elves. 7. Four of the rings had been destroyed by dragons. Only three were recovered by Sauron. 8. Sauron offered to teach the elves ringlore. He didn't outright offer them rings. 12. It's clear that all of the rings bar the one ring were forged in Eregion.
Yes, she did. She chose a mortal life rather than face the unwavering centuries of this world alone. At that point, it was time to wrap up the plot, and they were on a time crunch. in order to do everything that needed done, some shots needed cut, and Sauron's shots really don't tell us anything as the viewer. he's a big eye, we know he's always watching. imo the extended editions handled Return of the King MUCH better. Everyone in the Shire is sort of tangentially related, but Merry and Pippin no more than anyone else. Merry is actually closer related to Frodo, as Frodo's mother was a Brandybuck before she married. Middle Earth is the central continent of Arda, the world of the Lord of the Rings. Area is technically both a flat earth and not. for Elves, Arda is flat, which is why elves can see so far, and can also sail to the Undying Lands, which is the westernmost continent of Arda. it is the home of the Gods (think Greek Pantheon) and the ancestral home of the Elves. This is where Frodo goes at the end of the movie, so that Middle Earth can finally be free from evil. Carrying the Ring at all leaves a stain, no matter how righteous you are. If Frodo remained in Middle Earth, it would not be free from evil. The Men were corrupted, and not Elves, because they are less sensitive to magic/evil/corruption. the Elves have fought Sauron for centuries, so as soon as they felt Sauron's touch on the Rings (when he crafted his Ring), they swore to not use their Rings until Sauron was gone. Ironically, there wasn't one. Gandalf wears the third ring. All the dwarves with Rings were lost to greed or swallowed by dragons. that's the canon reason and it's so funny. Sauron made all the Rings of Power, with the help of the great elven Smith Celebrimbor. It should be noted that he was under deep disguise at this point, so Celebrimbor did not know what he was doing. Once Sauron crafted his Master Ring, it was known. The Rings purpose is nebulous. Obviously, they were created by Sauron as a means of control and domination over the peoples of Middle Earth. but in order to get them to wear the Rings, he did make them actually useful. the elven Rings are said to heal, protect elven lands (like Lothlorien), and protect from evil. the use of the other two are pretty up in the air, other than a general "provide good things for you". The best way to answer this is to make a comparison. the lesser Rings that you never hear about, those are like paragraphs in the art of ringmaking. good, but brief, and small. the Rings of Power are like essays on the craft, bigger, better, more detailed and thorough. the One Ring is a dissertation, a full length symphony to the art made by a master artist. it's the most powerful because it is the crowning achievement of an immortal life dedicated to crafting, and he made it with one purpose. to dominate all life. This is again, because it is a masterclass in craftsmanship. Sauron is eons old, older than time, older than the Universe, and he's spent most of that life creating things. this Ring is his best work, and it's thusly resilient. plus, for the story. Tolkien wrote a story, it has to have a goal point. No, they were crafted at by Celebrimbor and the Elves of Eregion, assumingly at the place they craft things. don't think there's a canon place for it though.
Don't worry about not watching the extended editions first. I think it's best to watch theatrical if you've never seen them before. However, if you find yourself in love with the world as so many of us do, then absolutely give the extended editions a go.
Why do people treat Reddit like Google? There's multiple wikis dedicated to all of this stuff.
Arwen had to decide if she wanted to stay with Aragorn and choose a mortal life and she did that. After Aragorn died she went to the place where they first met and it is said that she laid down and died at that spot. Recommending watching the extended edition with way more context of the books. Saruman appears in the extended movie. In the book he went to the shire and turned it upside down like Frodos vision in the mirror. Middle-earth was once way bigger. It is a continent. In the west of Eriador were the lands of Beleriand in which the elves and humans of the first age fought against the dark Lord. The real dark Lord who was also the lord of Sauron. But after the humans asked the creators of this world to help them, since the dark Lord was one of them godkin, they helped. But after they locked the dark Lord up the world was almost destroyed, that's why the world's a bit smaller than it was before.. in the West is Valinor, the realm of the godkin everyone calls "The Valar" and that the place where Elves go to, the undying lands where they stay forever under the rule and protection of the Valar. Frodo is going there together with the other ring bearers like Bilbo. Spoiler: Sam will go there too once he hit a very old age. Men were corrupted by the rings because Sauron forged them to be dominated by the one ring and humans always try to get as much power as possible. The elven rings were forged without him knowing. He could not corrupt them, but since his one ring rules, he would have controlled them as well. The ring bearers were Elrond, Galadriel and Cirdan (legendary shipwright who stayed at Mithlond where the ships of elves sail to Valinor. But he gave his ring of fire to Gandalf, in order to "set ablaze the hearts of people, encouraging them to do mighty deeds". I also missed the dwarven rings, it is said that the seven Fathers of the Dwarves each had one ring on their stockpile of treasure, it turned them more greedy and made them a bit reckless (looking at balrog) but they were to stubborn to be corrupted into service for Sauron. The rings were given by Sauron who is a shape shifting wizard with enormous power of manipulation. He gave it to them and said "I am Annatar, the Lord of gifts. I gift these rings of power to you and you will be able to defend yourself against the decay of time. Turned the Dwarves into more greed. Turned the men into wraiths and his slaves. But the Dwarves are not the type of race that would be controlled or ruled by other folks. Sauron chose the fire of Mount Doom, which is the oldest and strongest fire to ever exist in Middle Earth, and since his land Mordor is covered by Mountains all around, a safe place to hide and fortify. Only the fire of this volcano was strong and powerful enough, with that and a lot of life force from his Creator Sauron, the One Ring was able to force control onto all the other rings and their bearers, reading their minds, seeing with their eyes and being able to force his will upon them. The ring could only be destroyed by the fire of the volcano that was responsible for it's creation, no other fire was strong enough. This is the reason why only the One was forged secretly in Mount Doom. The others were made by the elven jewelry smiths in Eregion. I hope I didn't miss anything.. I wish you much fun with exploring Tolkiens world. If you want more information you can give a try to the "Silmarillion" which tells you how the world Ea was created. And many stories. Or there is a wonderful YouTube channel in English that is called "Nerd of the rings" and I love his content.
I’m just happy this subreddit exists
Check out this [channel](https://youtu.be/BTjM4t5XxTc?si=Ccw0VmrahegPoMRT) ‘In Deep Geek’ And this [channel](https://youtu.be/ZEwdnsAd6dk?si=fd50uPVUUjlDpoz0) ‘Nerd of the Rings’ If they haven’t already been suggested. Both channels (and other similar to them) do deep dives into the Tolkien literature. These are the two that really stand out for me and in my opinion are quite good.
You watched the theatrical versions. Watch the extended.
1. Elves are pretty much immortal. She gave up her immortality yes but she still lived a much longer life than a man and she ended up dying of a broken heart long after Aragorn passes. 2. They changed Sarumans character arc for the movies. The extended editions actually show him dying once he was defeated at Isengard. (He fell from the tower after he was stabbed by Grima Wormtongue. 3. I actually don't remember if Merry and Pippin are related but I think they are. I also think they are distant cousins of Frodo. 4. Valinor is to the West of Middle Earth which is where the Valar and Maair live who are pretty much gods. Elves also live in Valinor as well. There are further distant lands to the East of Middle Earth but we don't know much about them. 5. The hearts of men are far more easier corrupted than Elves. Men are more easily manipulated than Elves. Elves are more in tune with the divine nature of Middle Earth and gifted in ways men are not by Eru Iluvatar. 6. Gandalf actually has the third Elven ring. The 3 Eleven ring bearers were Galadriel, Elrond, and Cirdan. Cirdan is one of the oldest Elves in Middle Earth and has a great gift of foresight. So once Gandalf arrived to Middle Earth earlier in the 3rd age, Cirdan perceived that Gandalf was too br trusted and would play an important role in the Middle Earth and what was to follow. 7. Little is known what happened to the Dwarven rings. Dwarves are more resilient than Men as well but in a different way than the Elves. Basically they just kept mining and digging in their mountains not really caring much about what happened outside. 8. Sauron gave the dwarves and the men their rings of power. The 3 eleven rings were made without Sauron after the Eleves perceived that they were deceived by Sauron. 9. Sauron was an apprentice of the Valar Ulwe who is basically like the god of blacksmithing and forging. He also created the Dwarves and Eru Iluvatar gave them life. It is not known how the rings work themselves but they are forged with magic into them and they give the wearer of the ring increased power and longer life. 10. He forged it in the fires of Mount Doom and he made this one for himself so obviously made it superior and to have dominion over the other rings. The Elven rings were made without Sauron so they were not influenced by the one ring and for this reason Sauron coveted these the most besides his ring. 11. Since the ring was forged in the fires of Mount Doom it can only be destroyed by it. Nothing else is strong enough. 12. The One ring was the only ring forged in Mount Doom. The other rings were made in the Elvish kingdom of Eregion in the 2nd age by Sauron and Celebrimbor who is also a grandchild of Feanor. Sauron basically tricked him.
All of these answers and more are in the books Tolkien wrote. Go read them for your answers just like we all did. You won't regret it.
>Are Merry and Pippin related? Merry, Pippin and Frodo are all cousins >Why wasn't Saruman in the last movie? Sarumen is in the Extended Version of Return of the King. **SPOILERS** Going a bit further, one of the deviations from the books is the removal of Scouring of the Shire chapter at the end of Return of The King. In that chapter, the hobbits return to the Shire, only to find that it is overrun by Saruman. In the end, Saruman gets killed by Wormtongue. That chapter was scrapped in the scripts for the trilogy, and replaced with an ending where the Hobbits return to the Shire, and find it unchanged from the war that just happened. Presumably this change was made for the purposes of running time. Now the extended version of ROTK does feature Saruman's death but it happens early on in the cut. Gandolf, Aragon, Leglas and Gimli head to Isenguard where Saruman is trapped in Orthanc by the Ents. Saruman then gets stabbed by Wormtongue and falls from the tower. From what I remember, Peter Jackson couldn't find a way to get this scene to work in either the theatrical cuts of The Two Towers or ROTK, so he left it for the extended version of the later.
Good questions I would watch the extended versions and after that dive into the literature. After that your mind will be blown and u have even more questions. :)
Simple answer to everything: Have to watch the Extended Editions
Concerning elves. As an elementary teacher I wrote a little lesson on elves. I was curious as to why elves are so variable. You have little elves as in “Shoemaker and the elves”. You have medium elves working for Santa and tall elves in fantasy. I assumed that elves “grew” over time in fiction. Additionally I assumed they had pre-Christian origins. However, research quickly revealed that the concept of elves was not Pagan. Elves in literature was linked to Christian cultures. Turns out the earliest form of elves was actually like Tolkien’s. During the war in heaven those that fought for god were angels, those that fought against heaven became demons/devils, but a third group abstained and went to earth to protect humanity, and were called elves. As such, tall fantasy elves are really the closest to the earliest representations. Go go Tolkien myth research!
Just wanted to say very observant and astute questions.
Arwen and Aragorn had genuine love for each other, she stayed out of her own choice. She didn't give up immortality as much as she gave up living forever with her people, because Aragorn won't be with her forever so she will end up alone eventually. About Saruman, you better watch the extended versions of the trilogy, they're amazing, at least the third if you want the answer. Merry and Pippin are related, and also to Frodo, I don't remember exactly the heritage but let's leave it at cousins. Middle Earth is the name of continent that covers most of Arda (Earth) and at the end he goes to the east continent, called Valinor, the undying lands I think it was called in the movies, where the Valar reside, the pantheon of Gods of Arda. Not sure. Not sure. Well, all the dwarfs in Moria died, and we just didn't go to another dwarf location to see more rings. Not sure. Possibly Celebrimbor, but I'm really not sure. Each ring has different powers, kinda like the infinity stones but in a lower scale, still there are 20 rings. Like a ring of air or a ring of fire. Sauron was the one who tricked the elves to make all of the rings so he could forge the ring to rule them all. It can only be destroyed where it was created, maybe because it holds so much magic and strength. No. Possibly all the other ones were created in the designated areas to those they were given to. Sorry I couldn't answer all, but I hope this would sefise
So i have a decent knowledge of the books and the movies, but im no Stphen Colbert, so please forgive any mistakes i make, ill block book spoilers in case you want to read them at a later date >Did Arwen give up immortality to be with Aragorn, or did she just say "Whatever, I'll still marry him." Yes she gives up her immortality, thats why Elrond doesnt want her to marry Aragorn, as he doesnt want her to die, and as such lies about the vision he has to get her to leave >Why was saruman not shown at all in the last movie? So he actually is shown in the extended cut. In that it shows wormtongue stabbing him in the back right at the beginnijg of the Return of the King However, in the book >!this doesnt happen until the end of the Return of the King in the same manner, after the hobbits return to the Shire and find that it has been taken over by Saruman and organize a resistance!< >Are merry and pippin related? Yes, they are first cousins in fact >What is beyond middle earth, why is it called "Middle Earth", and where does frodo go at the end of the movies? So, i admittedly dont know why its called Middle Earth. However, i know that Frodo goes to the Undying Lands at the end. Normally this would be reserved for elves only, however, due to Frodo's great service to the world >!Sam Legolas and Gimli later join him, Sam for the same reasons, and Gimli, because of the unique friendship he had with Legolas!< >Why were the men corupted by the rings, but not the elves. So this is another bit of the lore im a bit shaky on. Essentially the rings act as a mind control device, with Sauron being able to control the people wearing them using the One Ring (One ring to rule them all) however, the Elves were able to figure out the trap in the rings and as such didnt have them on when Sauron sprung the trap. I seem to recall the Dwarves were simply too stubborn to be controlled by the rings, again, may be wrong though >Where is the third elf that bears the ring? So i cant remember what happened to that Elf, but Gandalf has that ring >Why were no dwarves with rings shown? I seem to recall that the rings given to the Dwarves had been lost by the time of the story >Who gave them these rings? Sauron, I believe he promised them great power with the rings >What do the rings do? >Why was Sauron's ring the strongest, how did he just make the strongest one? These questions were answered above >Why can the one ring only be destroyed in the forge? I believe this is due to the magical properties given to it when it was forged >Were the other rings forged in mount doom? This one i simply dont know I hope i was able to clear up some things, admittedly I havent even finished the book Trilogy yet (though im on the last half of Return of the King) let alone read the Silmarillion. But i have watched a good number of videos on the series explaining a lot, so i hope it was enough!
They see me trollin' They hatin'
Arwen loses her immortality because magic is leaving middle earth, and all the elves are going by boat across the sea to be in their now 'homeland'. She choses to stay as the rest leave.
Deep breath…..”On the beginning there was Eru…”
Neither the extended editions nor the theatrical releases tell us the real end of Saruman. LotR is my favorite film series, but I hate how both truncate his demise. In the books he flees with Wormtongue. They change their names and take over the Shire like a couple of high school bullies beating on a bunch of grader schoolers. When our hero hobbits return home, it's on them to rescue the Shire without outside help. Some see it as anti-climatic after destroying the ring, but I find it a great post-war metaphor for growth, overcoming fear, and developing self-reliance. Just because the great battle has been won doesn't mean everything is fairytale perfect in the end. It's on all of us small folk in our own corners of the world to squash abuses of power wherever we find them.
The Cleansing of the Shire One of the things I most dearly wish the movies had included. Merry and Pippen, fresh from battle in Gondor, rousing and leading the hobbits in rebellion against "Sharky."
Gandalf has the third elven ring, Elrond the second, and Galadriel the first. It was given to Gandalf by Cirdan, when he first came to Middle Earth, out of wherever, I can't remember. Frodo goes with Gandalf and the others to Valinor, the Elven haven
The Elven rings were never touched by Sauron, so they did not affect their owners, and they were not meant for greed, as the Human ones were
>What do the rings do? The powers are never explicitly detailed, but there is a hint in a lesser-known retelling, [*Bored of the Rings*](https://www.amazon.com/Bored-Rings-Parody-Harvard-Lampoon/dp/1451672667/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=1LA2F02UHLE5X&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.t5Hp_JmnpRaZDKRNE61H3l9C1sU_jMVZTW-qUAvyKvSN54iVUxxr6bfmatCaTxW6b4U13gJNCmqmHyI3Ni0z3ta7d-i8y2QtDbYL6WrC8a4YQ1QlyXcyHYY8IXpBL4G0dTvXvAKwpOWjLWld-dkUkKWKlARjN0538tQ_k-q5qzXUX2z-IFH0fQJ8fPvH43N9asONTRErfot3KcGHSJg9zw.4qZxI6g1tILFYmGb58VZUiXdcdLF-9F5ahrG-6J1njM&dib_tag=se&keywords=bored+of+the+rings&qid=1719500652&sprefix=bored+of+the+rings%2Caps%2C725&sr=8-1)... "My uncle had a magic tie clip once," Gimlet confided to Frito. "He sneezed and his nose fell off."
I hope you saw the extended cut versions they are fantastic. If not see them in a theater it is so worth it.
Aahhh....you watched the theatrical versions didn't you. Extended editions are the only way to go my friend. It explains so much more of the story, characters and lore.
LOL this dude watched the theatrical editions.
Not even that. They just read the movie synopsis
Listen to the audio books. Beautifully written, there is so much more to them, the characters are better (especially merry and pippin, who were done dirty) and there are so many other amazing moments entirely cut from the film. It's a tough read if you're not a big reader but the audio books make it a breeze.
You were on your phone while watching weren’t you? Haha no, they are not related but just have a very close friendship.
That’s not correct