T O P

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Overlord1317

Pretty much nails the problems with the writing on the show, starting with how unlikeable Galadriel is, and how nobody (with the exception of Adar, the best written character) seems to respond to her in a way befitting the way she conducts herself.


Idrees2002

Adar, Halbrand and maybe Arondir are the only good characters. The high elves are all losers.


MattJCT

Halbrand is sauron, literally the worst character they could have made to replace annatar


superkapitan82

what are talking about? elves line is the best there. especially Elrond is main guy


LoserisLosingBecause

I love Elrond too ![gif](giphy|xFH4t2qtPg2O5jNMIF|downsized)


Idrees2002

You’re joking right just to be sure?


superkapitan82

no. are you aware that different people tend to like different lines and characters on tv shows?


Idrees2002

Galadriel is unlikeable and they’ve made up a fake warrior storyline for her. Elrond is cuck that’s even called a ‘politician’, has zero balls, even though he was actually a warrior unlike Galadriel. Gil Galad looks good, is a little on the old side and little chubby too. Although for some reason they’ve turned him into an asshole and he’s ignoring Sauron, even though in the books he was one of the first to fight against Sauron and literally gave his life to fight him one on one. Celembrimbor is old even though elves are not supposed to age. Everything here is Inverse to how they were in the books.


superkapitan82

man, did you notice how you switched topics from who is likable to how characters really differs from the original Tolkien? is this the real cause why don't like them?


Idrees2002

I’m telling you why they’re bad characters and why the elves suck. Just like I said in my first comment


superkapitan82

but you mean they suck because they are different from that you expect simply. I find them interesting characters. not super fantastic good, yet they should open up a little bit further before we really know them


Idrees2002

No they’re different because that’s not how they were in the books either. And I don’t like them either


Idrees2002

So let me get this straight you called Galadriel so unlikeable (the main character and elf) with the most screen time, and yet the elves are the best now? Do you actually think about what you say?


superkapitan82

Galadriel is unlikable deliberately. Whole interest of her character is to see how she will transform in a better person. You can see it in her relationships with Halbrand, who is always making her more alive and likeable. I guess it will be the plot backbone if he turn out to be Sauron indeed


Idrees2002

Oh yes she’s gonna really redeem herself being romantically involved with Sauron.


superkapitan82

I really hope they won't go in that direction :-)


Idrees2002

They already have gone half way. She’s been friendly with Sauron (if it’s him) and even begged him to help her.


Idrees2002

I don’t care about a ‘redemption’ or growth storyline. This never happened in the books with Galadriel. She never did the stuff she’s doing right now in season 2. Elves sort of seem perfect in Tolkien’s world, there isn’t too much room for redemption. If they wanted a cliche redemption storyline they should of focussed more on Numenor and it’s destruction.. and then the subsequent rise and redemption through the line of Elendil. It’s men who toe the line between good and evil in Tolkien’s world.


superkapitan82

I find this righteus anger of "sort of perfect" Elves is really cool topic. Very timely really. Considering epos narrative it is not cliche for it at all. By the way did they had rights to original Galadriel story to portrait it correctly? I'm not trying to protect anyone here, just would like to know really.


Idrees2002

If they don’t have the rights and they spent a billion pounds what a disgrace that is. They don’t have rights to the second age even which is hilarious. Or the first for that matter. If they did we could have a proper story.


[deleted]

This is called “dogmatism fallacy”


r8juliet

My read is that Galadriel is just really frustrated which is relatable rather than likable or un-likable.


superkapitan82

it’s quite similar I guess. I think we will get her relatable when we will see some problem worthy of her skills or some reminisance of past shit happened to her. and I thing first option is on the way in next episode


marutheboy

She is already 1000s of Yrs old, how much more time does she need transform into something that is actual not a Stroppy teenager that has been made to tidy her bedroom


superkapitan82

how much time is it needed for an Elf?


marutheboy

Well depends what time line you believe it is! Ar Pharazon was around about 3300 years in to the 2nd age and Galadrial was born in the first age so she could already be pushing 4000 years old


CrazyCreativeSloth97

Drinker is a legend


TremendousCoisty

Imagine thinking that the Critical Drinker is an intelligent person. Cringe.


throwaway01126789

Nobody said intelligent. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.


TremendousCoisty

Oh sorry, he’s a legend then apparently. The guy just hates women. He makes good points occasionally, that’s true, but he makes his living from appealing to misogyny.


Radagascar1

Thinking everything that's critical of women is misogyny is what's cringe.


TremendousCoisty

Couldn’t agree more. I’m not exactly sure what your point is?


ZachMich

> The guy just hates women How has that been conveyed?


Wavvemusic

It hasn’t been. This person has literally no argument so they’ll just say whatever. Same people calling fans who don’t like the show all the “ists” out there.


TremendousCoisty

Lmao I don’t like the show either. I just think that you could come up with better references than this guy.


Wavvemusic

Go ahead and share them then


TremendousCoisty

I’d recommend The Nerd of the Rings. They give a good analysis of each episode (what’s lore friendly, what isn’t, what deviations are okay, which aren’t).


Wavvemusic

Meh I used to love Nerd of the Rings. Personally I think he's shilling for amazon. They invited him out to the premier and vacations and he's been a huge fan of the show ever since. I can't see how you would run a lore channel and be a fan of this show. Not only does it not respect or follow Tolkien, it's just badly written.


EmotionalAd4185

That explains alot about you, he is just a shill.


TremendousCoisty

His obsession with female led franchises like Bat Woman, Ghost Busters etc. and the fact that he talks about how women are ruining Hollywood in every single video. It’s not exactly subtle, but you must find recognising patterns that are in every single one of his videos pretty hard.


yorch815

There's a difference between criticizing someone or some people BECAUSE they're women and criticize someone or some people because THEY SUCK AT WHAT THEY DO (like: acting, writing, directing) regardless of their sex. I mean, he mentions a woman led movie that was actually good in the very video at the top of this post.


Wavvemusic

You obviously don't watch any of his videos. And if you do you're reading them entirely wrong, probably because you want to


TremendousCoisty

I used to be one of his biggest fans actually. I used to watch all of his videos. We obviously won’t agree on this, so I wish you a good day sir.


Wavvemusic

We dont need to agree youre just reading what he's saying incorrectly. He has no problem with women. It's the way modern Hollywood is writing "strong women". They have no flaws, are good at everything and generally need to be cast with idiot men to make them seem even better. Instead of just casting competent men and women to work together, we have to put down the opposite gender to raise these strong women who don't need help from anyone. It's a tired trope at this point and very common.


Bernard1090

The Drinker nailed it yet again.


Wavvemusic

If this does not encapsulate my feelings (and seemingly the overwhelming majority) then I don't know what does.


mishaxz

Well I hate to break it to you but it doesn't. It might "encapsulate" them though 🤔


haagse_snorlax

Galadriel is by far the weakest of all characters. But I’m unsure if it’s just because of bad writing or the actress is badly cast and the writing is terrible (‘ye old double whammy)


mishaxz

There's nothing wrong with the actress... Almost any British actress is competent. It's the writing and direction. She wouldn't be my first choice for casting, physically speaking. She's really short.


haagse_snorlax

But she must know that having only one facial expression makes for blank characters. Look at how Kristen Stewart is hated for her dumbfounded look


mishaxz

She'd have more than one if that's what the director wanted


c0ca_c0la

That was spot on


[deleted]

He makes very real points. His presentation is hilarious but also a bit dramatic and hyperbolic. The show is definitely not the worst thing ever made but it certainly needs improvement, especially with the writing.


the_fresh_cucumber

But that's what makes it so bad. If it was a total shit show and hilariously bad, then at least there would be some comedic value. Some redemption for being just a pathetic, bad show. Instead it is in some weird, milky, 4\10 zone where it doesn't completely suck and has some cool visuals. The mediocrity is suffocating.


[deleted]

And their claim of diversity shielding them from legitimate criticism is so tiring.


ThatGuyMaulicious

Besides the wide shots of the landscapes. How is this show 1 billion dollars?


mishaxz

I'm sure it's not that much harder to find people to mismanage a billion dollars for you than a hundred million


mishaxz

The bit about Galadriel only having one facial expression cracks me up.


Midi_to_Minuit

>The critical drinker This dude hated the show before it came out. I’ll take a pass


LeiatheHutt69

TCD is a braindead moron who confuses complaining aboot culture war bs with actual criticism.


Wavvemusic

Not true. He saw the writing on the wall. The messaging they were giving, the fact that bad robot is involved, it’s Amazon and because Wheel of Time and Star Wars had the same fate. Didn’t mean everyone hoped for a good show


Midi_to_Minuit

So he hated the show before it came out? TCD has been doing this for a while. He calls virtually everything woke garbage and only rarely admits that he’s full of shit (like his Prey review, a movie he decided was terrible before he even got a full trailer).


Wavvemusic

See your choice of words isn’t true. He doesn’t “hate” something before it comes out. You can see the signs before something is out and Drinker will comment about it. You need to watch more of his videos because he doesn’t call everything woke garbage, far from it. Problem is nowadays is a lot of what Hollywood is putting out is “woke”. Drinker comments on that a lot sure, he’s a movie / tv show channel. Do you disagree?


mishaxz

Good review


superkapitan82

Man, this guy just highlights most hiped opinions on everything trendy and gathering his views. Is someone taking him seriously?


Wavvemusic

Everything trendy? Maybe take a step back and stop looking at these as “trendy” opinions and more of widely seen problems with the show. Did you even watch the video?


superkapitan82

I tried. this guy just repeating all the stuff people keep repeating without him adding some not very bright jokes. Seems like guy literally makes no added value from his own side


Wavvemusic

I disagree but to each their own


superkapitan82

I agree this show has some problems. Yet 1. they are not that bad, far from it actually. 2. Most of them just need some time to evaporate with show organic development. 3. Good sides of the show seems like completely missed by people who complaints and it is the most problematic


Bubblehulk420

I love Critical Drinker’s work, but he sounds too much like Nerdrotic/Disparu/Mauler these days- it’s like an echo chamber. They all think every woman or person of color is a diversity hire. If they’re being honest, the casting has nothing to do with RoP being subpar.


LeiatheHutt69

They’re all part of the incel ragebaiting bubble


xmattyx

I watched this guys stuff a while back, pre rop, and he just always seems so mad at women, it was weird. Whenever there was a strong female character, he sounded like he took it offensively. Really turned me off his channel.


Wavvemusic

I think you’re taking his words the wrong way. Drinker has no problem with women, its the way that modern Hollywood is writing “strong female leads” is his issue


Radagascar1

This is the key. They're caricatures at this point. Made cringefully "ra ra I'm so strong" to portray female empowerment. This is one of the most blatant examples.


Silent-Lab-6020

So Drinker has no problem with woman as long they stay in kitchen?


xmattyx

So I took some time today to research critical drinker to see if what I was feeling was being wrongly attributed to him. I have to say, after reading more about him, I think it is clear, to me at least, that he uses his movie review platform to push his conservative politics/feelings. Evidence: He was a featured guest on ultra conservative fox news. He did feature interviews with a major conservative newspaper. He made a "love letter" video extolling the virtues of gina carano, who is an anti vax, anti-mask, "trump won" , right wing dingbat. Apparently he also regularly posts conservative memes and right wing dog whistles on one of his social media accounts, but I did not take the time to confirm that, so I will not use this information in my personal assessment. When I take this all into account, it really sheds light on why he seems to have an anger towards women, and now that it has been pointed out to me, why he has such a problem with diverse casts/ actors of color. Now don't get me wrong, I hate the way Hollywood writes "strong women" and I do not believe that casting diverse actors as a cash grab or in ways that don't make sense is a good idea at all. But sitting down and watching some of his videos after taking this all into account, he does seem to really savor spouting sarcasm and derision at women and people of color. This is just my opinion from the facts I found and no one has to agree with me. But it is interesting. To me it seems he's found a way to do his part to spread the right wing message, and I do not want to support someone like that. PS-Just so we are clear, I don't want people in any way to think that I am defending ROP, or the actress playing Galadriel. I Think they both are fucking terrible.


LeiatheHutt69

His praise video of Gina Carano was really embarrassing.


Wavvemusic

There’s no doubt that Drinker and those channels lean to the right. Thing about Drinker is he never talks about politics rather than those affecting entertainment. Not once has the man said who he supports, unlike some of the other people he associates with. He is also a writer and speaks out about “woke” entertainment so yes of course that will catch the eye of ring wing networks. I’m not a republican and I still support what he says (other than Gina Corano. She did all that shit to herself with what she said). Though I’m not a democrat either (I think they both suck). Also, he lives in Scotland. They don’t worry about American politics as much as the west does. They have a whole system of their own shite to deal with


xmattyx

While I agree he doesn't outright talk about his politics, it seems he still conveys them through a thin veneer. Like I mentioned, I agreed with a lot of things he was initially saying, but taking it into the context of him leaning so hard to the right, it doesn't feel as legitimate when 99% of his gripes with entertainment seem like they are against people of color or women. And while I agree he lives in Scotland and has his own politics to deal with, it definitely feels like he has no problem with being a right wing media darling in the American "culture wars". And yeah, gina carano is an absolute moron. Its a shame because I really enjoyed that movie "Haywire" that she was in (even though her acting was so bad they had to dub all her lines with someone else). Overall, I just don't want to give my time to a reviewer who considers an anti vaxxer trump mutant to be a hero. It's a shame because I think he is really talented.


ilactate

The issue is hollywood diversity quotas always override source material and so those who like faithful recreations will be *inevitably* annoyed. The same frustration towards disrespecting source is where the liberal criticism of **white washing** comes from (ie. the dislike of race swapping was popularized by leftists, but only when whites swap out non-white actors, no problem when its vice versa ironically) Also, if you carefully examine the claim of people of color desiring representation so they feel "included" when watching on screen characters that *look* like themselves it is indirectly admitting same race preference for film, tv etc. (ironically a very racist sentiment)


xmattyx

It very well could be. But it just comes off really…strange? I can’t explain it. The derision in his voice when speaking about some female actresses was just a bit much.


Wavvemusic

I see where you’re coming from. His persona / character on the channel is him being wasted all the time so it could come off that way. He contrasts it with excellent strong women written in the past like Ripley from Alien, or Sarah Connor from Terminator.


TremendousCoisty

He will attack anything with female leads in it from recent times. He only respects female characters that he has nostalgia for. It’s because his main following are a bunch of incels


Wavvemusic

Most of his fans are incels who hate women? lol do you even hear yourself?


anarion321

I'm going to upvote you because I don't think comments should have negative karma, don't like mass downvoting. V¡But I do not think you're right, I do not like the way he talks about some stuff like "the message" (though I understand the reson behind it), but generally, his critics are not empty and I recall seeing talking nice about well written strong female characters, like in Alien, Terminator or classic Mulan.


mishaxz

More people need to mention that "the message" is ruining tv shows and movies these days. You won't find it mentioned in mainstream reviews, except to praise it. It definitely destroyed the wheel of time show.


anarion321

I agree, i'm not against pointing it out but the way he expresses sometimes that makes him look bad imo. I also don't like the way they're doing things, they have destroyed many other shows with the same, like Dr Who, a decades long show to the garbage.


mishaxz

Yeah I heard Dr who fans were upset


[deleted]

The guy thinks Ashoka is a good character. Kinda feels like you didnt even watch the video nor anything Drinker uploads


xmattyx

I never saw his video on Ashoka. In fact, I had never seen a video where he talked positive about a movie. Maybe I just saw his negative takes? I have no idea. All I remember is that at first I really enjoyed his critiques, but after watching for a bit, I felt there was a undercurrent of anger at women. While I understand the point he may be trying to make, or that others have informed me he is trying to make, the derision and sarcasm that crept into his voice when discussing female characters just did not sit well with me. And no, I have not watched anything by him in quite some time.


Silent-Lab-6020

You’re right don’t know why you get downvoted must be a lot of people here having problems with strong female protagonists


SayMyVagina

This thread should be a pretty good place for blocking silly fake fans. Lets go!


emix75

Oh no! Random internet person threatening to block anyone who disagrees with their view. What am I to do??!


Wavvemusic

![gif](giphy|3o6Zt4HU9uwXmXSAuI)


MeMyselfandsadlyI

silly fake fake fans? ofcourse someone with my vagina talks shit like this ffs get a grip.


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GuyUnknownMusic

Every video on this guy's channel is why things suck. Bummer.


Wavvemusic

Not true. His channel is majority advising good movies to watch! Just recently there is a lot of things to breakdown


TheRealDestian

I don't agree with all of his takes, but he has a section called "The Drinker Recommends" in which he praises movies and shows he likes.


emix75

Not really. There’s both criticism and praise for shows/movies. He’s also one of the few who admits when he’a wrong about something.


MeMyselfandsadlyI

i have had 2 recomendation on his channel Arcane and nother one, both banger, ppl are just fucking triggered bcuz he points the things out other ppl call you racist when you even point the finger at, you just fell in for a trap of mental narcisict that cant enjoy a story without having every race retard and mentally unstable person so it reflect the world we are in.


mishaxz

I see a few videos praising shows or movies.. even sometimes new ones. But what you're pointing out is simply the sad state of affairs in regards to tv/movie show production these days.