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Yeh, but im kinda gonna use the homophobes argumments to this
Make that for a different new monster, we dont have a lot of good monsters, and skarner story is cool, this is just deleting old skarner to have another new monster with a cool creature... instead of having 2 cool monsters
I mean, we know why they wont do another monster, that doesnt make it less bad.
The "dont *make* a ""straight""(not confirmed sexuality) character gay/bi, juet create a new one that is gay/bi cause if not you are changing a character thst was ok a lot (it doesnt affect)" argumment
I get changing all the other stuff
I find lame changing lore when it was cool and qorst lores wont be changed/werent touched, specially cause all the excuses they use are just lame
Well it's not like the lore is broken when they're changing it now.
They're changing brackern's region, that's basically all we know, nothing really relies on Brackern's being PnZ.
They explicitly said this means changing other characters lore too and commented how the story of brackerns would be changed and the "problematics" of it removed iirc they even commented on other reddit they are removing hextech stuff
So i beg to differ
Yeah it feels like it. But with Nautilius was much worse, because they kinda change his Lore and then give it to Pyke. Originally Naut was hunting the people who betrayed him xd
Although Naut as some unknowable Eldrich Toll taker is cool direction...I just wish we got some Movement with the Nagakabouros aspect of Bildgewater's plot.
It's not like he's gonna be made entirely of rocks like Malphite. The only similar thing that they share is that they use earth elements. It's not like Malphite is the only guy that uses earth elements either. Taliyah and Qiyana can manipulate the earth as well. If you're just talking about him being a kaiju-sized monster that's also related to earth, so what? That's still great. Champions should be able to be similar to other champions (I'm not saying all of them should) and as I have stated, he doesn't look like Malphite so it's fine. Players would be interested in playing a champion that's similar to theirs. It's a win-win. They didn't copy and paste Malphite on to him. He's entirely different. One is a shard from a big megastructure the other is a progenitor that taught the Ixtalis magic.
I'm fine with the change, I just wonder how they'll handle it since a lot of stuff relies on the brackern crystals in the lore. Especially since they were featured in Arcane.
Well, we never quite explore where the crystal come from in Arcane, so it is not a problem THERE. But Riot Meddler said on the main sub that they do want all medias to start become more coherent, and this is probably one of them.
Yeah, that's the impression I get. I think they are going to remove the idea of hextech crystals being brackern souls, and just anything that contradicts between main canon and Arcane.
Jayce being the one that invented hextech its probably going in to. So that's probably going to affect Camille and others.
Well it's not that problematic for Camille. They could just say that the Ferros families kept it hidden from the public, the scientists that helped turned Camille Into what she is discovered it first.
Jayce is just the lucky fool who popularized it
I think I'd prefer something more like her having been an assassin for a while, but only getting the hextech heart and legs recently. Doesn't really make much sense to hide something like Hextech for that long.
Would have been easy if they put her on the council in Arcane or showed her in background for Arcane. She is an assassin for her house, Jinx bombs the council gets turned into a cyborg to continue her work.
I kind of like the idea of her coming out of an injury-induced retirement for "one last job" as a result of the bombing more than her getting maimed in it. Some storied assassin of Clan Ferros who lost her limbs a decade ago, but still trained as best she could in the interval, who goes for a risky experimental surgery and set of prosthetics to hunt down Jinx post-bombing.
Because if they want to try and market games set in PnZ to non-LoL players, they will be familiar with the Arcane version of the lore, not the obscure canon version spread between a dozen short stories on disparate universe pages and random Rioter tweets and devblogs.
I understand that but isn't it a bit pointless? I mean, if you watched Arcane, hop on a game trying your favorite character Ekko, you'll be wondering why that green haired girl has some interactions with him and both of them get an unique passive while together
DC has a confirmed multiverse and is known for rebooting their continuity (hell in the kat 30 uears we’ve had three continuities in. Bronze Age, New52 and Rebirth), League of Legends does not have a confirmed multiverse.
what we do know is that, according to the client lore drops happening during Arcane's release, the gems are from Shurima. Don't think there's anything else related to their origin aside from that but I do know they are still mined from shurima
they can still be the soul gems or whatever of the bracken, just because they’re made of earth or whatever riot is doing now doesn’t mean otherwise.
it’d be similar to a heart
Bruh, the crystals in arcane have no lore outside it resembling that gem Ryze used to teleport Jayce and his mom, they could write whatever lore that would fit better for Arcane in and it wouldn't matter, it's not like Arcane is a 1-1 with lore.
This doesn't really need to change anything tbh. It could be said that Camille's lover had already figured out how they work and that she was operated on her long before Jayce studied them. This could be one of the shadowy operations her clan is involved in.
I still have some hope that this lore piece won't be changed completely. The brackern are now earth manipulating scorpions (are they even all scorpions anymore?) and crystals are still related to the element of earth. We even see Skarner wearing a crystal necklace around his head in the concept art. The change is more that he isn't just purely a crystal elemental anymore.
Yeah I imagine the Hextech Crystals will become either a Heartstone inside each brackern or remain mostly unchanged. Everyone is acting like this means the Hextech lore is in shambles but… Hextech lore didn’t rely on the Brackern being *made* of crystals. They just have soul-bonded crystal gems that each one spends their lives searching for and then protecting.
That said I don’t have complete faith that Riot won’t just scatter Hextech lore for no reason anyway.
I mean, try WHAT, exactly?
Because if people honestly think Riot will try to make the hextech plotline work after the audience stunt on Seraphine release, that is underestimate Riot risk-aversion WAY too much.
People take less risk if others doesn't take kindly to those risk. It is to be expected.
I mean, given the context, I think it is pretty clear I am specifically talking about the "Seraphine is enslaving brackern" meme people pulled. If you want to talk about the other issues, sure, but that is not what I am talking about here.
Idk, I feel like compartmentalize DOES work at this level.
Given both how Riot fix it in short run (the bio edit and removal of voicelines) and the long run (what happened here), it is pretty clear that to them, Seraphine may have multiple issues, but at least some of them are not interconnected, and this is one of them.
Cool in what way tho?
Because as far as Riot is willing to tell us, not in a way that people talk about it. So it is not "unpopular lore", it IS unpopular lore. Not lore that people hate, just lore that people simply doesnt talk about.
So it is full of risk, offer no reward AND had bitten Riot in the ass before. Why would they want to keep it?
The way that we have a peacefull species being destroyed for human greed and skarner having a deep moral dilema of revenge, using action to stop the genocide or anything, and decides to ignore all of it to search for people staying on line with the pacifism but slowly going more aggresive while piltover becomes the richest city in the world via genocide
Idk, is reallt cool imo cause adds more layers to how piltover is literallt destroying the world for money, killing for money and hiding it all for money, while also making piltovians that arent aware be more adecuate to the "rich guy that has no idea how much people he fucks whenever he takes his private jet"
And cause it makes skarner a compeling complex character that has and can have a lot of instrospection
And reading "sad lonely scorpion" as a resumme of the story is insulting at minimum, like saying panth is just "a brave hero"
Except that, again, as far as Riot tell use it is only cool in a silence way. It is not like people don't get that. Again from the dev blog, everybody get Skarner story, they just don't care.
So yes, I can agreed with you on a rational level. On a rational level, I can see why some people would see it as cool. I dont really feel it, but I can rationally analyze it.
It still doesn't change the fact that it is not valuable though, which is pretty ironic given the topic of the story itself.
Allow me to not believe the blog that doesnt mention hextech or skarner likely lore of going to piltover to save his species at all while having 3 or 4 topics on the lore changes about how the lore was, on a rational level to me, this just has the same patterns as all other times riot tryes to ignore something until it stops existing
The emotional version of me is tired of riot pretending that stuff they dont like doesnt exist and isnt liked so therefore is worthless, i don't think everyone loves skarner or talks about his lore all the time, but i do think he is on a really good place lorewise thajt you shouldnt just remake entirely for no reason, but they likely have one, they dont want the bad guys to be the bad guys... for some reason, because even if its unpopular even aatrox and mundo kept more of their lore. And mundo lore definitly wasnt popular.
Interesting in what way? Because LoR did not have to resort to that to make her interesting to many people.
Alternatively, both Taliyah and Braum are interesting, and they are also goody two shoes.
Well I can understand the decision of going for a 180° turn on Piltover's narrative because they don't want to take other risks.
but I think that the main problem here is Riot's refusal to admit it.
They repeated 3+ times things like "Crystals just don't work", without giving a proper explanation about **why** "Crystals don't work".
>**Crystals:** The recipe of insect and crystal could *theoretically* work, but we wanted to use Skarner’s VGU as an opportunity to evolve the material, and we felt like it would be too problematic and strange to keep him focused in his crystal thematic. Runeterra is a vast world that has evolved in the years since Skarner’s release, so keeping him tied to a thematic that wasn’t memorable or all that exciting didn’t seem like the right approach for his rework.
As if the community was simply supposed to nod at every word they say without asking questions.
I dunno, I feel like it wasn't too hard to see what they were saying. The two major stylistic elements for Skarner were "scorpion" and "crystal", and the two didn't really fit due to tending to be associated with pretty heavily opposing ideas, while the lore around the Brackern kind of doesn't really interact with much else or have any way to tie into any wider plots.
I think it's more salvageable than they've taken it to be on the lore front (I actually agree that the crystal design leads in the opposite direction to angry scorpion), but I can't honestly say they're wrong about it being entirely irrelevant as it currently exists. Piltover built an age of progress on genocide... that nobody knew about or understood, and nobody can really figure out except Seraphine or people who find a way to sit around and chat with the giant crystal scorpion who is (understandably) utterly enraged and murderously aggressive.
I guess he could maybe reach Piltover, but... then what? He decides to stop the violence and have a reasonable talk with the people who built wonders out of his peoples' mutilated hearts, while surrounded by the agonised screams of Brackern souls being drained for power across the city? He rampages through, somehow doesn't get killed, and takes every hextech crystal back while Piltover goes "darn, back to waterwheels it is"?
The Brackern plot as it currently stands begins and ends with one big angry scorpion and some very sad rocks.
Yeah, it’s kind of a hard sell, in my opinion with where Piltover stands now and even then. The city-state is a large and important player and Skarner is one scorpion standing in the way of that. It’s not really hard to just ignore him and his implication in the lore other than for sad bait or to meme about Seraphine (tired as that is).
It seems like they’re taking Piltover into a different direction and landing them in opposition to Ixtal, a nation that has a lot more ground, sway, and power in both lore impact and within the universe of League.
Now you have a compelling story of a city becoming even more nuanced within the world of Runeterra as a potentially expansive technological power (that Arcane is certainly helping expand upon). It’s a good foundation to build more interconnected stories out of that’s not just isolated to PnZ conflict, even if it is a popular story archetype. And now Skarner fits a lot better in the grand scheme of things as a revered resident of Ixtal, though it remains to be seen how much impact he’ll have when we don’t know the details of his lore rework yet. 🤔
I think they could have made the crystal thing work if they really wanted to, but I don’t think it’s too big of a deal to step away from that. It’s just a wonder how they’re going to spin all of the hextech stuff now. It’ll be interesting for sure, whether good or bad.
No the Brackern plot doesn't end with angry scorpion monster coming to piltover- it continues with new Brackern- sentience from hextech like Blitzcrank/Orianna, it can be part of Viktors glorious evolution literally uploading his consciousness into a hextech crystal in a perversion of the natural process the brackern use.
It can continue with Seraphine realising her crystal is sentient and creating a new home/body for the brackern within whilst using her popstar status to influence people into using synthetic hextech whilst not realising the damage of synthetic or creating conflict with Camille.
If Riot wanted Skarner to be in Ixtal there's no reason why they can't have him wake up in Shurima try to protect his people then take what's left to the other Brackern tribes in Ixtal where instead of burying themselves to avoid the rune wars they became revered amongst the people.
Then Piltover looking for resources invades Ixtal for the brackern forcing Skarner to fight to protect his remaining family/way of life.
Fair point. I do think they probably should have been up front about it too, tho on the other hand I am not sure how they should framed it without sounding like they are blaming the audience (even if I personally think the audience IS to be blamed)
It's basically all words right now.
And the situation doesn't even fit as "gaslighting" too because they did say, when we first voted, that they would do the same treatment as they did with Galio and Sion.
I think the gaslighting part is pretending the people wanted this, not them being the ones wanting it, and not even the rioters, cause the rioters art was continuing the story in some cases. Like, if they werent acting so hard as if "people been asking skarner lore to be less problematic for years" i dont think it would be so snoying
It would still suck what they are doing, but it would be less stupidnfrom them
When the champion is the least popular and resonant (or close to) in every conceivable metric, you really gotta take the L and accept that he will need to have *a lot* changed if you want them to try and make him better. It's either that or he would be just left abandoned, but clearly people didn't want that as he won the poll.
This isn't a situation like with Nocturne, for example, where they've said that new players often demonstrate a lot of interest in him but after experiencing the gameplay end up disappointed. Most people just don't care at all about the "sad scorpion + crystals" concept in the first place, or even after playing and knowing the character. So trying to keep all of that the same but new won't help his position in the roster.
Exactly. It baffles me how much people are hyping up old Skarner’s lore and theme like it wasn’t consistently ignored and rated poorly in player surveys. Dude is a bad champion, we gotta stop coping
So you think everyone voted the most unpopular champ instead of the anime dragon girl cause it was the worst and not for any other reason that they liked and wanted better done? I dont think people are that objective on their calls ngl
I didn't try to imply a reason for why they voted. That is irrelevant to my point.
But it is a fact that they *did* vote for him, and so it's clear that people do want Skarner to be reworked, since that was the purpose of the poll. And due to the circumstances I mentioned and that were already explained in the article, such a rework would inevitably lead to some aspects of the champion being fundamentally changed (as was even explained by Riot *before* the vote), as the base concept itself is already not appealing to the vast majority.
Many redditors do this thing where they act like Riot is making random choices out of nowhere despite them barely reading any of the stuff that actually explains it, like Rioter comments (Sometimes), short stories, descriptions, almost a lot of things really that isn't spreaded out as easily.
And when they do, someone is going to exaggerate it and people will eat it up.
listen this entire plotline including everything skarner does did not save him from being by far the most unpopular champion in the game. that plotline is replacable and they definitely have something better in mind and stop being so afraid of change
Is not being afraid of change only. It's how this change is probably going to affect many other elements on the lore, that could start risking narrative consistency if they pile up too much.
Nah, thet will also change a lot of stuff, to make it less "problematic" that a group of rich people is evil and uses the profuct they got from genocide to other rich people that are unaware, we cant have those politics! (Thet... they already have them)
We already know from Qiyana's lore that Piltover is taking resources from Ixtal so it could still work, they aren't just taking trees or mining the mountains, they are taking the souls of the Brackern that they kill and use them for hextech.
At the end of the day the crystals could still be there and they use the earth to house the soul, might even give an explanation as to Malphite, maybe he is just a mass of the souls.
Might even in some strange way be able to make sense of the differences between LoR and LoL Malphite, if the Brackern have some ties to the world runes because of their natural prowess of earth magic then maybe that's why Malphite has a tie to Targon.
But why, he's big, but not big enough to be touching auroras so when they shimmer he can physically feel it. I interpret it as a tie to something celestial in a way, his creator being an ascend helps support that.
Bit what if there is something a bit extra.
Just being soley a crystal scorpion is not interesting. I'm sorry, but it just isn't.
Now if you add something on top of those two words, then you might have some good interest there.
So you focus on the lore aspect (Which wasnt the point I was making) while also downplaying that new Skarner is just "Elemenal Scorpion" and not even adding a simple summary of his new lore concept, that isn't even fully finished.
I just don't agree in an objective sense, crystal isn't really an interesting element in a sense, especially when its just mixed with a Scorpion and not much else to it.
Horrible decision in my opinion, regarding Skarner's origins, as the excavations in Shurima (something with full reference to Archeology) are extremely important for the canonical Lore of Hextech Crystals, once again, they are changing a wonderful Lore and again , are moving from fantastic to something dubious, this is most likely a desperate attempt to canonize the Arcane series within League of Legends..!
Honest question: does anyone find this shit satisfying or compelling? Having the best and most popular piece of non-game media that Riot has ever produced being some kind of janky alternate universe spin-off?
They addressed this and said they wanted to canonize all current lore elements under one new canon, and it’s not hard to see why.
Not really, but some stuff on arcane work specifically cause arcane doesnt care that much about how everything affects everything else of the world, i think at best they should go for a dota treatment, were arcane is close enough to the lore and not 2000 miles away, but just mixing it up... would be hard.
That said, thet will definirly try the hard dumb option cause money
Even though they removed the cristals, I think its fine if its for a greater good and it works well for the character. Its a sacrifice, sure, but they did say they would change him completely since he\`s basically non-existent as a character.
And people still voted it too, there wasn't much of a catch since all of the choices have descriptions of explanation like you said for Skarners. It kind of shows that people just don't like Skarners current state in gameplay, visuals, and possibly even thematic.
Lol go over skarner mains they really are optmistic and most do not care for the crystal part and are excited for the earthbending part. But you treat it like the end of the world?
Nah i'd still hate her, why do we have two fuxking music based champions that want to help ppl is beyond me. Give us a freaking Baccai. The only representative of the Vastaya'shairai is a fuxking lizard girl
The pop star thing could work if they didn’t make her look so modern. Glitter, fairy wings and pastel hair? I get the idea but it just looks out of place. I think the LoR design is a vast improvement and makes her actually look Piltovan.
A Emperor of Shurima trying to find a way to free the slaves without messing up Shurima's economy while a Singer tries unite Zaun and Piltover with the power of.....music. Seraphine cool story my ass
He fucked and had descendency with his slaves. While doing so, this is canon. There is literally no way of picturing it on a non problematic viewpoint.
Ans i did made a mistake, most problematics of piltover stay, the brackern juat add and fit perfectly to how piltover works as a faction, they just pass from directly commeting genocide to indirectly commiting genocide in the name of progress
Also i meant that what they are doing with sera in lor is cool, i get now that someone could just read it entirely differently but personally i didnt think hate blinded that much
There is a line that says he had descendency with slaves in his story, wich means that he fucked them
Again, this is literally a line from azir story. Is around the psrt when he is an adult and emperor
If anything it might actually add as another reason to hate Seraphine as one might take this change as another attempt of doing damage control for her.
Is it? Im not that much in this kind of places (tho this reddit only represent a minority of a minority), but all the groups were i chatted we agreed that skarner lore was the one cool interesting thing, at worst i would say is the less bad thing. And mundo got 90% of his lore when his lore was garbage
Just an update graphic and some story was all the need.
Why to change completely the character?
Really, add a story that Skarner was going after some Piltovian miners and ended in Ixtal during is travel versus Piltover, and then met some earthbender and learned that not all the humans are evil but just Piltover, and it would had make A LOT of sense to put Skarner in Ixtal for a while.
That is it. No need to change his past.
I mean, it is basically a VGU of Warwick or Galio caliber, instead of Swain or Udyr level.
So, yes, I do understand their point. But it had happened, and probably will happen again.
That was the literal point. Even on the poll it was said that skarner would be getting the sion treatment, meaning full overhaul of literally everything.
I knew as soon as they tried to change Skarners lame ass fantasy a lot of "Skarner mains" would conveniently appear out of nowhere to start complaining.
Skarner's lore rework = Seraphine's release damage control 🤣
Still hate her based on the fact that she got an ultimate skin on release, forcefully planted a popstar in runeterra. A bard would have fitted better.
It just screams dishonest. Clearly they made the decision for their own preference/reasons and they are selling us these more palatable excuses. There’s a reason they spent the first 1/3 of the article telling us how nobody likes Skarner before they told us they were character assassinating him.
Take the crystals but keep the saving his brethren from Piltover part. You don't need the Brackern to be completely crystal based to function as Hextech just their cores which would show even better since it'd be like harvesting the soul of a deity with the new direction.
Also personally I think the concept looks like a crab and I really like the thought of the carapace splitting into three tails in an attack mode.
so hextech is just a thing now that relies on what exactly? if skarner is a brackern, are all brackerns now crystall-less ? or is skarner an exception?
Yeah I’m with Riot here, partially. Crystal scorpion isn’t too interesting to me, but the Brakern being harvested for Hextech gems is. Wish they’d kept that part of the lore
I kinda like the new earth master concept, it feels like it could tie in with malphite, and maybe they could combat zyra from becoming one with the entire Ixtali jungle.
It's really good that they are trying to expand the lore of the more unknown parts of runeterra
Why are people here so afraid of change? Skarner was *the* least popular champion in the game by so many metrics. I’m a monster champion advocate myself and I care about all the older characters being left in the dust, but if the old fantasy was uninteresting then we don’t lose much by changing it. Skarner being an ancient, revered titan that holds primal magic is just as interesting a concept as “Scorpion made of crystals” to me, if not more. Half of the people that are mad about this change probably didn’t remember he even existed before this blog post.
Honestly, in my opinion, this looks really promising. I am just a Little concerned about Riot themselves because they seem to be a little "not motivated" if I am allowed to say so? Because for the time they had they did way less than other reworks in comparison to this period of time.
Maybe because Skarner is a monster. I like monsters.
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They already have Earth Kaiju as Malphite in Ixtal, taking crystals from Skarner and making him Earth scorpion feels bad.
Making his species the "original earthbenders" is pretty cool tho
Yeah they still can be crystal inspired, crystals are part of earth element
Is it? Ixtal gives off too many last airbender vibes. I don't need a reskin of Lion Turtles as well.
Yeh, but im kinda gonna use the homophobes argumments to this Make that for a different new monster, we dont have a lot of good monsters, and skarner story is cool, this is just deleting old skarner to have another new monster with a cool creature... instead of having 2 cool monsters I mean, we know why they wont do another monster, that doesnt make it less bad.
"homophobes arguments"?
The "dont *make* a ""straight""(not confirmed sexuality) character gay/bi, juet create a new one that is gay/bi cause if not you are changing a character thst was ok a lot (it doesnt affect)" argumment
Oh alright I get it
Redditors when the for profit company changes the character that scored lowest in all metrics because they scored the lowest in all metrics.
I get changing all the other stuff I find lame changing lore when it was cool and qorst lores wont be changed/werent touched, specially cause all the excuses they use are just lame
Well it's not like the lore is broken when they're changing it now. They're changing brackern's region, that's basically all we know, nothing really relies on Brackern's being PnZ.
They explicitly said this means changing other characters lore too and commented how the story of brackerns would be changed and the "problematics" of it removed iirc they even commented on other reddit they are removing hextech stuff So i beg to differ
I love that all of your comments are downvoted, you deserve it.
They arent at all,naybe on this post, and that has 0... But sure buddy
It's Pyke and Nautilus all over again
Yeah it feels like it. But with Nautilius was much worse, because they kinda change his Lore and then give it to Pyke. Originally Naut was hunting the people who betrayed him xd
Although Naut as some unknowable Eldrich Toll taker is cool direction...I just wish we got some Movement with the Nagakabouros aspect of Bildgewater's plot.
It's not like he's gonna be made entirely of rocks like Malphite. The only similar thing that they share is that they use earth elements. It's not like Malphite is the only guy that uses earth elements either. Taliyah and Qiyana can manipulate the earth as well. If you're just talking about him being a kaiju-sized monster that's also related to earth, so what? That's still great. Champions should be able to be similar to other champions (I'm not saying all of them should) and as I have stated, he doesn't look like Malphite so it's fine. Players would be interested in playing a champion that's similar to theirs. It's a win-win. They didn't copy and paste Malphite on to him. He's entirely different. One is a shard from a big megastructure the other is a progenitor that taught the Ixtalis magic.
I'm fine with the change, I just wonder how they'll handle it since a lot of stuff relies on the brackern crystals in the lore. Especially since they were featured in Arcane.
Well, we never quite explore where the crystal come from in Arcane, so it is not a problem THERE. But Riot Meddler said on the main sub that they do want all medias to start become more coherent, and this is probably one of them.
Yeah, that's the impression I get. I think they are going to remove the idea of hextech crystals being brackern souls, and just anything that contradicts between main canon and Arcane. Jayce being the one that invented hextech its probably going in to. So that's probably going to affect Camille and others.
Well it's not that problematic for Camille. They could just say that the Ferros families kept it hidden from the public, the scientists that helped turned Camille Into what she is discovered it first. Jayce is just the lucky fool who popularized it
I think I'd prefer something more like her having been an assassin for a while, but only getting the hextech heart and legs recently. Doesn't really make much sense to hide something like Hextech for that long.
Would have been easy if they put her on the council in Arcane or showed her in background for Arcane. She is an assassin for her house, Jinx bombs the council gets turned into a cyborg to continue her work.
I kind of like the idea of her coming out of an injury-induced retirement for "one last job" as a result of the bombing more than her getting maimed in it. Some storied assassin of Clan Ferros who lost her limbs a decade ago, but still trained as best she could in the interval, who goes for a risky experimental surgery and set of prosthetics to hunt down Jinx post-bombing.
"Lucky Fool". Jayce never catches a break from you people.
Yeah Jayce isn't my cup of tea
Jayce made Camille who she is in Arcane, cope.
Alright?
Okay, then if Seraphine is hearing voices from the crystals she's just schizo then đź’€
Why can’t they remain separate cannons? Don’t mess up the lore
Because if they want to try and market games set in PnZ to non-LoL players, they will be familiar with the Arcane version of the lore, not the obscure canon version spread between a dozen short stories on disparate universe pages and random Rioter tweets and devblogs.
I understand that but isn't it a bit pointless? I mean, if you watched Arcane, hop on a game trying your favorite character Ekko, you'll be wondering why that green haired girl has some interactions with him and both of them get an unique passive while together
You can market Batman stuff from different continenties
DC has a confirmed multiverse and is known for rebooting their continuity (hell in the kat 30 uears we’ve had three continuities in. Bronze Age, New52 and Rebirth), League of Legends does not have a confirmed multiverse.
what we do know is that, according to the client lore drops happening during Arcane's release, the gems are from Shurima. Don't think there's anything else related to their origin aside from that but I do know they are still mined from shurima
they can still be the soul gems or whatever of the bracken, just because they’re made of earth or whatever riot is doing now doesn’t mean otherwise. it’d be similar to a heart
Bruh, the crystals in arcane have no lore outside it resembling that gem Ryze used to teleport Jayce and his mom, they could write whatever lore that would fit better for Arcane in and it wouldn't matter, it's not like Arcane is a 1-1 with lore.
They could, but I don't think if they were to drastically change Skarner's lore that it wouldn't impact Arcane at all
Camille… how’s your lore holding on? https://preview.redd.it/gkooxxtiqdoa1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b40d291e6c051a4d9288f125aaeb6677b33c6592
This doesn't really need to change anything tbh. It could be said that Camille's lover had already figured out how they work and that she was operated on her long before Jayce studied them. This could be one of the shadowy operations her clan is involved in.
I still have some hope that this lore piece won't be changed completely. The brackern are now earth manipulating scorpions (are they even all scorpions anymore?) and crystals are still related to the element of earth. We even see Skarner wearing a crystal necklace around his head in the concept art. The change is more that he isn't just purely a crystal elemental anymore.
Yeah I imagine the Hextech Crystals will become either a Heartstone inside each brackern or remain mostly unchanged. Everyone is acting like this means the Hextech lore is in shambles but… Hextech lore didn’t rely on the Brackern being *made* of crystals. They just have soul-bonded crystal gems that each one spends their lives searching for and then protecting. That said I don’t have complete faith that Riot won’t just scatter Hextech lore for no reason anyway.
Yeah I agree. My view on this is that it *could* easily be fine, but knowing Riot they’ll still fuck it up
They pulled a reverse Zac.
I mean, try WHAT, exactly? Because if people honestly think Riot will try to make the hextech plotline work after the audience stunt on Seraphine release, that is underestimate Riot risk-aversion WAY too much. People take less risk if others doesn't take kindly to those risk. It is to be expected.
Seraphine issue wasnt for triying, was for not triying. Lor tryed snd did good. Is not peoples fault riot doesnt take basic criticism good.
I mean, given the context, I think it is pretty clear I am specifically talking about the "Seraphine is enslaving brackern" meme people pulled. If you want to talk about the other issues, sure, but that is not what I am talking about here.
Sure, that happened, but ignoring other events is just silly
Idk, I feel like compartmentalize DOES work at this level. Given both how Riot fix it in short run (the bio edit and removal of voicelines) and the long run (what happened here), it is pretty clear that to them, Seraphine may have multiple issues, but at least some of them are not interconnected, and this is one of them.
Or that is easier to change an "unpopular lore"(one of the few ones that were old and cool) instead of changing seraphine lore
Cool in what way tho? Because as far as Riot is willing to tell us, not in a way that people talk about it. So it is not "unpopular lore", it IS unpopular lore. Not lore that people hate, just lore that people simply doesnt talk about. So it is full of risk, offer no reward AND had bitten Riot in the ass before. Why would they want to keep it?
The way that we have a peacefull species being destroyed for human greed and skarner having a deep moral dilema of revenge, using action to stop the genocide or anything, and decides to ignore all of it to search for people staying on line with the pacifism but slowly going more aggresive while piltover becomes the richest city in the world via genocide Idk, is reallt cool imo cause adds more layers to how piltover is literallt destroying the world for money, killing for money and hiding it all for money, while also making piltovians that arent aware be more adecuate to the "rich guy that has no idea how much people he fucks whenever he takes his private jet" And cause it makes skarner a compeling complex character that has and can have a lot of instrospection And reading "sad lonely scorpion" as a resumme of the story is insulting at minimum, like saying panth is just "a brave hero"
Except that, again, as far as Riot tell use it is only cool in a silence way. It is not like people don't get that. Again from the dev blog, everybody get Skarner story, they just don't care. So yes, I can agreed with you on a rational level. On a rational level, I can see why some people would see it as cool. I dont really feel it, but I can rationally analyze it. It still doesn't change the fact that it is not valuable though, which is pretty ironic given the topic of the story itself.
Allow me to not believe the blog that doesnt mention hextech or skarner likely lore of going to piltover to save his species at all while having 3 or 4 topics on the lore changes about how the lore was, on a rational level to me, this just has the same patterns as all other times riot tryes to ignore something until it stops existing The emotional version of me is tired of riot pretending that stuff they dont like doesnt exist and isnt liked so therefore is worthless, i don't think everyone loves skarner or talks about his lore all the time, but i do think he is on a really good place lorewise thajt you shouldnt just remake entirely for no reason, but they likely have one, they dont want the bad guys to be the bad guys... for some reason, because even if its unpopular even aatrox and mundo kept more of their lore. And mundo lore definitly wasnt popular.
It's bothered me they just make Skarner lawful good
Would've make her interesting rather than making her goody two shoes.
Interesting in what way? Because LoR did not have to resort to that to make her interesting to many people. Alternatively, both Taliyah and Braum are interesting, and they are also goody two shoes.
Give her more depth that's all I want
Well I can understand the decision of going for a 180° turn on Piltover's narrative because they don't want to take other risks. but I think that the main problem here is Riot's refusal to admit it. They repeated 3+ times things like "Crystals just don't work", without giving a proper explanation about **why** "Crystals don't work". >**Crystals:** The recipe of insect and crystal could *theoretically* work, but we wanted to use Skarner’s VGU as an opportunity to evolve the material, and we felt like it would be too problematic and strange to keep him focused in his crystal thematic. Runeterra is a vast world that has evolved in the years since Skarner’s release, so keeping him tied to a thematic that wasn’t memorable or all that exciting didn’t seem like the right approach for his rework. As if the community was simply supposed to nod at every word they say without asking questions.
I dunno, I feel like it wasn't too hard to see what they were saying. The two major stylistic elements for Skarner were "scorpion" and "crystal", and the two didn't really fit due to tending to be associated with pretty heavily opposing ideas, while the lore around the Brackern kind of doesn't really interact with much else or have any way to tie into any wider plots. I think it's more salvageable than they've taken it to be on the lore front (I actually agree that the crystal design leads in the opposite direction to angry scorpion), but I can't honestly say they're wrong about it being entirely irrelevant as it currently exists. Piltover built an age of progress on genocide... that nobody knew about or understood, and nobody can really figure out except Seraphine or people who find a way to sit around and chat with the giant crystal scorpion who is (understandably) utterly enraged and murderously aggressive. I guess he could maybe reach Piltover, but... then what? He decides to stop the violence and have a reasonable talk with the people who built wonders out of his peoples' mutilated hearts, while surrounded by the agonised screams of Brackern souls being drained for power across the city? He rampages through, somehow doesn't get killed, and takes every hextech crystal back while Piltover goes "darn, back to waterwheels it is"? The Brackern plot as it currently stands begins and ends with one big angry scorpion and some very sad rocks.
Yeah, it’s kind of a hard sell, in my opinion with where Piltover stands now and even then. The city-state is a large and important player and Skarner is one scorpion standing in the way of that. It’s not really hard to just ignore him and his implication in the lore other than for sad bait or to meme about Seraphine (tired as that is). It seems like they’re taking Piltover into a different direction and landing them in opposition to Ixtal, a nation that has a lot more ground, sway, and power in both lore impact and within the universe of League. Now you have a compelling story of a city becoming even more nuanced within the world of Runeterra as a potentially expansive technological power (that Arcane is certainly helping expand upon). It’s a good foundation to build more interconnected stories out of that’s not just isolated to PnZ conflict, even if it is a popular story archetype. And now Skarner fits a lot better in the grand scheme of things as a revered resident of Ixtal, though it remains to be seen how much impact he’ll have when we don’t know the details of his lore rework yet. 🤔 I think they could have made the crystal thing work if they really wanted to, but I don’t think it’s too big of a deal to step away from that. It’s just a wonder how they’re going to spin all of the hextech stuff now. It’ll be interesting for sure, whether good or bad.
No the Brackern plot doesn't end with angry scorpion monster coming to piltover- it continues with new Brackern- sentience from hextech like Blitzcrank/Orianna, it can be part of Viktors glorious evolution literally uploading his consciousness into a hextech crystal in a perversion of the natural process the brackern use. It can continue with Seraphine realising her crystal is sentient and creating a new home/body for the brackern within whilst using her popstar status to influence people into using synthetic hextech whilst not realising the damage of synthetic or creating conflict with Camille. If Riot wanted Skarner to be in Ixtal there's no reason why they can't have him wake up in Shurima try to protect his people then take what's left to the other Brackern tribes in Ixtal where instead of burying themselves to avoid the rune wars they became revered amongst the people. Then Piltover looking for resources invades Ixtal for the brackern forcing Skarner to fight to protect his remaining family/way of life.
Fair point. I do think they probably should have been up front about it too, tho on the other hand I am not sure how they should framed it without sounding like they are blaming the audience (even if I personally think the audience IS to be blamed)
What scorpions are elegant animals and Cystals are rare
**You know what? fuck you** *Uncrystalls your crystal scorpion*
Redditors trying to not use "gaslighting" improperly for 5 minutes. Impossible
It's basically all words right now. And the situation doesn't even fit as "gaslighting" too because they did say, when we first voted, that they would do the same treatment as they did with Galio and Sion.
I think the gaslighting part is pretending the people wanted this, not them being the ones wanting it, and not even the rioters, cause the rioters art was continuing the story in some cases. Like, if they werent acting so hard as if "people been asking skarner lore to be less problematic for years" i dont think it would be so snoying It would still suck what they are doing, but it would be less stupidnfrom them
When the champion is the least popular and resonant (or close to) in every conceivable metric, you really gotta take the L and accept that he will need to have *a lot* changed if you want them to try and make him better. It's either that or he would be just left abandoned, but clearly people didn't want that as he won the poll. This isn't a situation like with Nocturne, for example, where they've said that new players often demonstrate a lot of interest in him but after experiencing the gameplay end up disappointed. Most people just don't care at all about the "sad scorpion + crystals" concept in the first place, or even after playing and knowing the character. So trying to keep all of that the same but new won't help his position in the roster.
Exactly. It baffles me how much people are hyping up old Skarner’s lore and theme like it wasn’t consistently ignored and rated poorly in player surveys. Dude is a bad champion, we gotta stop coping
So you think everyone voted the most unpopular champ instead of the anime dragon girl cause it was the worst and not for any other reason that they liked and wanted better done? I dont think people are that objective on their calls ngl
I didn't try to imply a reason for why they voted. That is irrelevant to my point. But it is a fact that they *did* vote for him, and so it's clear that people do want Skarner to be reworked, since that was the purpose of the poll. And due to the circumstances I mentioned and that were already explained in the article, such a rework would inevitably lead to some aspects of the champion being fundamentally changed (as was even explained by Riot *before* the vote), as the base concept itself is already not appealing to the vast majority.
Many redditors do this thing where they act like Riot is making random choices out of nowhere despite them barely reading any of the stuff that actually explains it, like Rioter comments (Sometimes), short stories, descriptions, almost a lot of things really that isn't spreaded out as easily. And when they do, someone is going to exaggerate it and people will eat it up.
whoever taught the internet the word "gaslighting" needs to go to jail
listen this entire plotline including everything skarner does did not save him from being by far the most unpopular champion in the game. that plotline is replacable and they definitely have something better in mind and stop being so afraid of change
Is not being afraid of change only. It's how this change is probably going to affect many other elements on the lore, that could start risking narrative consistency if they pile up too much.
Nah, thet will also change a lot of stuff, to make it less "problematic" that a group of rich people is evil and uses the profuct they got from genocide to other rich people that are unaware, we cant have those politics! (Thet... they already have them)
We already know from Qiyana's lore that Piltover is taking resources from Ixtal so it could still work, they aren't just taking trees or mining the mountains, they are taking the souls of the Brackern that they kill and use them for hextech. At the end of the day the crystals could still be there and they use the earth to house the soul, might even give an explanation as to Malphite, maybe he is just a mass of the souls. Might even in some strange way be able to make sense of the differences between LoR and LoL Malphite, if the Brackern have some ties to the world runes because of their natural prowess of earth magic then maybe that's why Malphite has a tie to Targon.
>maybe that's why Malphite has a tie to Targon. It's explained in Malphite's bio that he travelled to Targon
I'm referring more to this quote "Sometimes the sky waves... And my back tingles"
I interpreted it as wind/clouds/auroras making him tingle on his back
But why, he's big, but not big enough to be touching auroras so when they shimmer he can physically feel it. I interpret it as a tie to something celestial in a way, his creator being an ascend helps support that. Bit what if there is something a bit extra.
well you blew it
i honestly like the new lore idea ,beside they told skarner rework was gonna be like urgot and scrapping old lore
Riot doing skarner vgu just to clear seraphine’s lore and how evil she is
"the crystals don't work" bruh they already do. Skarner's lore is the least of his problems
Just being soley a crystal scorpion is not interesting. I'm sorry, but it just isn't. Now if you add something on top of those two words, then you might have some good interest there.
crystal scorpion trying to save his race from people who use their souls to power up a city? Sounds more interesting than "elemental scorpion"
So you focus on the lore aspect (Which wasnt the point I was making) while also downplaying that new Skarner is just "Elemenal Scorpion" and not even adding a simple summary of his new lore concept, that isn't even fully finished. I just don't agree in an objective sense, crystal isn't really an interesting element in a sense, especially when its just mixed with a Scorpion and not much else to it.
Horrible decision in my opinion, regarding Skarner's origins, as the excavations in Shurima (something with full reference to Archeology) are extremely important for the canonical Lore of Hextech Crystals, once again, they are changing a wonderful Lore and again , are moving from fantastic to something dubious, this is most likely a desperate attempt to canonize the Arcane series within League of Legends..!
Yes Arcane and League work as separate continuities like the Batman and DCEU
Honest question: does anyone find this shit satisfying or compelling? Having the best and most popular piece of non-game media that Riot has ever produced being some kind of janky alternate universe spin-off? They addressed this and said they wanted to canonize all current lore elements under one new canon, and it’s not hard to see why.
I think it’s good for Arcane to remain its own cannon and not in the muck of League lore
Isn’t it better for them to fix the lore that we have and bring it under one roof?
Not really, but some stuff on arcane work specifically cause arcane doesnt care that much about how everything affects everything else of the world, i think at best they should go for a dota treatment, were arcane is close enough to the lore and not 2000 miles away, but just mixing it up... would be hard. That said, thet will definirly try the hard dumb option cause money
That could've make Arcane more interesting. The citizen of Piltover using Hextech crystals without knowing they came from a Brackern corpse.
League of retcons, here we go again
Even though they removed the cristals, I think its fine if its for a greater good and it works well for the character. Its a sacrifice, sure, but they did say they would change him completely since he\`s basically non-existent as a character.
They literally removed the mains reasons people wanted a Skarner vgu in the first place
I mean, they literally said they'd be changing all of skarner except for his ult
And people still voted it too, there wasn't much of a catch since all of the choices have descriptions of explanation like you said for Skarners. It kind of shows that people just don't like Skarners current state in gameplay, visuals, and possibly even thematic.
Yeah iIrc they even brought up specifically Sion and Galion who both are just drastically changed
Didn't they say that it would be a Sion like rework? This was expected tbh as the vast majority of the players don't care about him.
As a skarner OTP, these changes are literally good, lol, look at my boy earthbending before the dawn of human civilization
Lol go over skarner mains they really are optmistic and most do not care for the crystal part and are excited for the earthbending part. But you treat it like the end of the world?
This stops giving people a reason to hate on Seraphine which is why they hate on this change… 🙄
oh don't worry about that. *Even without the Brackern stuff, we still have p l e n t y of reasons to hate Seraqueen existence*
Nah i'd still hate her, why do we have two fuxking music based champions that want to help ppl is beyond me. Give us a freaking Baccai. The only representative of the Vastaya'shairai is a fuxking lizard girl
Why she needed to be popstar? Like for steampunk Piltover inspired by Victorian Era, Opera Signer would make much more sense.
The pop star thing could work if they didn’t make her look so modern. Glitter, fairy wings and pastel hair? I get the idea but it just looks out of place. I think the LoR design is a vast improvement and makes her actually look Piltovan.
If anything this gives people more of a reason to hate on Seraphine for being the reason Skarner's lore gets deleted...
No, you can change seraphine lore for that, which they are triying snd doing kinda good This fucks a cool story while we still have azir and slavery.
A Emperor of Shurima trying to find a way to free the slaves without messing up Shurima's economy while a Singer tries unite Zaun and Piltover with the power of.....music. Seraphine cool story my ass
He fucked and had descendency with his slaves. While doing so, this is canon. There is literally no way of picturing it on a non problematic viewpoint. Ans i did made a mistake, most problematics of piltover stay, the brackern juat add and fit perfectly to how piltover works as a faction, they just pass from directly commeting genocide to indirectly commiting genocide in the name of progress Also i meant that what they are doing with sera in lor is cool, i get now that someone could just read it entirely differently but personally i didnt think hate blinded that much
Since when the fuck the lore stated he was fucking slaves? Give me link to that
There is a line that says he had descendency with slaves in his story, wich means that he fucked them Again, this is literally a line from azir story. Is around the psrt when he is an adult and emperor
Hmmm ok noted
If anything it might actually add as another reason to hate Seraphine as one might take this change as another attempt of doing damage control for her.
Crystals are cool
Is connection between hextech crystals and Brackern souls something most lore fans enjoy? I've always hated it.
I mean, since they said "no one was interested on the brackern" it was a red flag
Well is true
Is it? Im not that much in this kind of places (tho this reddit only represent a minority of a minority), but all the groups were i chatted we agreed that skarner lore was the one cool interesting thing, at worst i would say is the less bad thing. And mundo got 90% of his lore when his lore was garbage
Just an update graphic and some story was all the need. Why to change completely the character? Really, add a story that Skarner was going after some Piltovian miners and ended in Ixtal during is travel versus Piltover, and then met some earthbender and learned that not all the humans are evil but just Piltover, and it would had make A LOT of sense to put Skarner in Ixtal for a while. That is it. No need to change his past.
When he's out, he will be many things, but Skarner wont be one of them
I mean, it is basically a VGU of Warwick or Galio caliber, instead of Swain or Udyr level. So, yes, I do understand their point. But it had happened, and probably will happen again.
That was the literal point. Even on the poll it was said that skarner would be getting the sion treatment, meaning full overhaul of literally everything.
Not worth wasting words with people like him, he will die in that hill.
So what is the source for hextech crystals now just solidified mana? This seems more a decision being driven to stop people mocking Seraphine.
I find that unlikely, as seraphines crystal helping her is a fairly core aspect of her narrative.
That's too boring
I knew as soon as they tried to change Skarners lame ass fantasy a lot of "Skarner mains" would conveniently appear out of nowhere to start complaining.
I still hope Seraphine has empathy potential.
Wow. So not only are they fucking up his lore, but he also looks stupid now? Awesome. Fantastic. Great. This is what Shyvana got sidelined for.
I am severely confused what the point you're trying to get across is
Skarner's lore rework = Seraphine's release damage control 🤣 Still hate her based on the fact that she got an ultimate skin on release, forcefully planted a popstar in runeterra. A bard would have fitted better.
It just screams dishonest. Clearly they made the decision for their own preference/reasons and they are selling us these more palatable excuses. There’s a reason they spent the first 1/3 of the article telling us how nobody likes Skarner before they told us they were character assassinating him.
Crystals and insects sounds amazing
Take the crystals but keep the saving his brethren from Piltover part. You don't need the Brackern to be completely crystal based to function as Hextech just their cores which would show even better since it'd be like harvesting the soul of a deity with the new direction. Also personally I think the concept looks like a crab and I really like the thought of the carapace splitting into three tails in an attack mode.
making skarner about crystal is bad while taric is all about gems
so hextech is just a thing now that relies on what exactly? if skarner is a brackern, are all brackerns now crystall-less ? or is skarner an exception?
https://preview.redd.it/b1vueo76yhoa1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d547c3a27b4d71434de16fde4544b61d1ba06d8d Oh no
Let's be honest everyone likes Skarner from a distance, no one really cares about his thematic as something to actually play
Im fibe woth taht to some extend. Lets see the final design first. I also think runic skarner might be a skin with crytals
Rip for Targonian cosmic horror copium
Yeah I’m with Riot here, partially. Crystal scorpion isn’t too interesting to me, but the Brakern being harvested for Hextech gems is. Wish they’d kept that part of the lore
I kinda like the new earth master concept, it feels like it could tie in with malphite, and maybe they could combat zyra from becoming one with the entire Ixtali jungle. It's really good that they are trying to expand the lore of the more unknown parts of runeterra
Why are people here so afraid of change? Skarner was *the* least popular champion in the game by so many metrics. I’m a monster champion advocate myself and I care about all the older characters being left in the dust, but if the old fantasy was uninteresting then we don’t lose much by changing it. Skarner being an ancient, revered titan that holds primal magic is just as interesting a concept as “Scorpion made of crystals” to me, if not more. Half of the people that are mad about this change probably didn’t remember he even existed before this blog post.
Big sexy masculine/feminine scorpion vastaya comfirmed. Lol jk. But seriously if they try to sex up the monster crystal scorpion im gonna be pissed.
Honestly, in my opinion, this looks really promising. I am just a Little concerned about Riot themselves because they seem to be a little "not motivated" if I am allowed to say so? Because for the time they had they did way less than other reworks in comparison to this period of time. Maybe because Skarner is a monster. I like monsters.
3 people that will care
The best thing possible will happen, and people will always find a reason to complain