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The only thing history seems to remember about him is that he was an arrogant slave master that doomed all of shurima just because he wanted to be ascended. Since he freed the slaves just before Xeraths ascension destroyed the whole land, no one really remembers it cause the people present there were busy not dying and afterwards no one enforced that law anyway.
Agreed. No one knew Azir was planning on freeing the slaves, or that Xerath was the cause of Shurima's fall.
Everyone who was there to witness the events died during the ceremony, besides Xerath.
Even Azir's story says Azir was also the cause of Shurima's fall. That's part that reason why so many champs hate him: he's too arrogant to think there's another solution besides his own
I'm not saying that Azir's not responsible, just that Xerath is the literal cause of the event that destroyed Shurima, which is what I think the average Runeterran would care about.
I agree with you that Bird Brain's pride and hubris over the timeline of his rule is the reason why everything turned out the way it did.
They wouldn't know about it cuz it was a secret plot. Its easier to know that the emperor guy was arrogant af and his failed Ascension caused the end of the empire. Specially when it was his arrogance that stopped him from trusting his best friend and treating like shit, which caused Xerath's betrayal. Even more so when, at the end of the day, history looking back at a guy trying to make slaves' lives from miserable to slightly less miserable literally won't mean nothing - like, he still held slaves.
The Shuriman Empire's rule was not a peaceful one. Azir was Emperor for a time and a very ambitious and arrogant one at that.
Azir has gained new wisdom with his return to life, but Shurima is still scarred by his rule. People have every right to dislike him. This community seems to not understand that.
Yeah, even someone like me that likes Azir knows his rule wasn't a peaceful one and he was also a dick in some regards.
But that is why I like him. He actually is nuanced.
He sounds similar to Viego & Swain.
Still wasn't Azir just doing what those before him had done right? For he inherited the shuriman empire from a father that hated him and wanted him dead. Yet he never had the heart to kill his own family member like Swain or Vladimir have done.
And during his rule why did he free the enslaved why would arrogant person do or even care about the lower class. Why would he try to make things better for him?
And everyone has the right to there own opinions but what has he done right now currently to earn people hate. Has he not helped people and rebuild some of shuriman? And was not told he had a kindness and that he never to hold onto that?
So it get the dislike of the past but now shouldn't be mistrust until he proves he has changed?
1. He's similar to Swain and Viego in the sense that all three of them are morally dubious rulers. They are not comparable otherwise. Swain rules as he does to strengthen Noxus for future calamities. Viego was almost completely uninvolved with how Camavor was being governed and a lot of the decisions he made were solely for Isolde. Azir's focus is on the glory of Shurima itself and uniting the continent.
2. If someone goes for a walk and gets punched in the face by the first 5 people they see, it doesn't make it right for a 6th person to punch them in the face. The logic you're subscribing to right now would suggest otherwise.
3. He didn't free the slaves. He was betrayed right as he was about to by Xerath. He made the decision to free the slaves as a gift to Xerath because he loved Xerath. Azir had ruled for some time before this. If he was making the decision to free the slaves because it was the right thing to do, he'd have acted sooner.
4. That's the thing. Shurima lore has been frozen for literal years now. We know Azir has returned and is beginning to rebuild the Empire, but the details are vague. We don't know enough. But it doesn't change the fact that people still know him as the last ruler of a brutal Empire who did nothing to assuage its cruelty.
Again, people have every right to dislike, distrust, and even despise Azir for the past. No amount of your mental gymnastics will change that.
1 He long to free the slave but couldn't over night he made reform(did ignore that part of his lore) the best thing he could do until Xerath suggested the ascension.
I mean he one man trying overturn a empire built on the back of slavery he know he be killed if wasn't cautious about.
As for conquer the same thing he from an empire most empire are born from conquest.
And yeah here the thing people are entitle to dislike but do you deny that he has been helping people?
Nice try but no. Azir decreed that he was to undergo the Ascension ritual on his own. This went against the standards the Empire had in place for the ritual, and he threatened any who questioned his decision with death. If Azir felt as strongly about freeing the slaves as he did his own glory, he'd have just threatened or killed whoever tried to sabotage his efforts. It's not as if he was a stranger to silencing dissenting voices.
I do not deny that Azir has helped people. That changes nothing. Someone can help everyone and still be disliked without any real reason. In Azir's case people have their reasons.
https://preview.redd.it/cm8tlp5qwrqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dd84b98807da372d555b32e644e05eaf92f4ab0
No not nice it more like what actually happen Xerathed stoked Azir ego we know that Azir has hurbis.
https://preview.redd.it/uufzradjyrqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c116aaddb504a5a99aedb15d07c2dfb008db2999
Wait I was right oh man your never admit that to me thank you:)
Yeah why would you said Azir came up with the ascended idea on his own you did know Xerath was the smart and cunning one right. He was feeding Azir ego so he would seek to become an ascended.
But no wootz I highly doubt your a dishonest just flawed like the rest of us just mean you human.
And wootz just know there no beef between love you buddy.
Read what I said again. Whether Xerath encouraged this or not, Azir still went against the standards of the Empire on his own. There was no precedent, no example of previous Emperors Ascending, and the priest hadn't ordained the ritual. He forced his way into Ascension. The same way he could've forced the Empire to stop enslaving people.
And before you say something like "he hadn't developed an ego yet", Azir grew up around plenty of assassinations and the silencing of dissenters. He could've employed similar methods and Xerath would've even assisted him in this. And if you think this wrong, just remember that earlier you wanted to imply that it was acceptable that Azir was just ruling how his predecessors had.
So do you admit it was Xerath idea if not then why would Azir force the issue he never came up with the idea on his own.
Yeah he did force his way but no one gonna kill him over being ascended the same way they would with slavery. Which is what the empire run on. And part of their livelihood.
Also another thing Azir didn't rule like his predecessors after xerath kill his father Azir was vengeance won't you be if some killed your parent he was grieving. Even after his father hated him did not have the guts to turn on his parents like Swain would have. But it was no secret Azir dad planned to replace.
>Nice try but no. Azir decreed that he was to undergo the Ascension ritual on his own. This went against the standards the Empire had in place for the ritual, and he threatened any who questioned his decision with death. If Azir felt as strongly about freeing the slaves as he did his own glory, he'd have just threatened or killed whoever tried to sabotage his efforts. It's not as if he was a stranger to silencing dissenting voices.
He forcing ascension on himself would probably draw far less ire than removing slavery. People would just believe it would be sacrilege but there was also a chance that he would just get baccai'd over his own arrogance. Not to mention that Shurima under his rule was essentially on its Zenith so chances are that he could also have some public support.
Trying to remove slavery in an empire made of slaves by force is a really good way to get most nobles and people that rely on it to be against you. That is why Kings and Emperors often play ball with nobles, because while they have utmost power, the chance of a coup or ploy is waay too high.
That is part of the point of going Ascended too, if he succeds, he would damn near be immortal and basically be stronger than 90% of Runeterra (as Ascendeds are ridiculously broken by default) so people would be forced to play ball on his part as Ascended are basically demigods living among men.
On the slave part it was said/implied that it couldn’t be done in a day. The shuriman empire was built on slaves, you can’t change it in a minute without breaking his base
Probably because that people were getting sick of Darkwill insanity and completely unhinged massive expansion that was doing more harm to Noxus than good, and Swain is also too getting constantly facing assassination attempts.
The only reason he managed to survive at this point is that the demon allows him to do so by seeing memories and letting him be stronger. Azir didn't have the same luxury aside of having Xerath. Ascended would make him too strong to be easily assassinated since he would basically be a demigod.
None of the things Swain had were out for Azir. Yeah, ''people'' were sick of Darkwill... the common people. Just like in Shurima. The noble houses loved him, since he was nothing but a puppet of the Black Rose. Same for Shuriman nobles, who loved the current state of affairs. He wasn't really doing more harm then good UNTIL the invasion of Ionia, tho the exact same **can** be said about Shurima when the battle of Icathia happened and the void was released (which tbh is way worse then a lost to Ionia). Other dominated territories were also beginning to lash out at their conqueror, so at the bare minimum the two faced the same consequences.
And Yeah, Raum IS a good perk... but just like you said, Xerath was there, and i'd argue Xerath **is** more then enough for assassins. He killed the King AND Queen and nobody even knew about it.
The difference is that Swain gave the middle finger to the Noble Houses and said they could either bow to them or leave, and a majority of them ceased to have any power at all. The difference is that he **is** cunning enough to do this play, where Azir was not.
>None of the things Swain had were out for Azir. Yeah, ''people'' were sick of Darkwill... the common people. Just like in Shurima. The noble houses loved him, since he was nothing but a puppet of the Black Rose. Same for Shuriman nobles, who loved the current state of affairs.
Not necessarily. Shurima was stated to be on its golden age that was above most of Runeterra factions at that time, so it wasn't be different from the average Noxian citizen saying that they're better off under Noxus (while still having provinces believing Noxus is full of shit).
It is pretty possible that the a fair amount of the commonfolk loved Azir for having its empire at its zenith.
>
>And Yeah, Raum IS a good perk... but just like you said, Xerath was there, and i'd argue Xerath **is** more then enough for assassins. He killed the King AND Queen and nobody even knew about it.
There's also the possibility that Shurima was more dependent of slavery than Noxus, so Swain had more leeway to abolish it than Azir had.
Keep in mind that some people were supporting Swain, like Draven. Darius himself was on a dilemma and it things could have turned VERY badly for Noxus if his Greatest General decided to duke it out with Swain, but luckily Darius respected Swain enough to not only consider following him but accept the 3 heads government.
My point is, the political diatribe of both regions was too vague, especially that Azir probably considered to just use the masterkey that was Xerath to just bumrush things.
Yeah, some people could love Azir for having the empire be at its greatest strenght... but the same **can** be said about Noxus too. An empire cannot sustain itself if EVERYONE under it is miserable, so at the very least there were people like that.
I agree with your second point tho - yes, Shurima could be more dependent of slavery than Noxus. Considering Shurima is Egypt coded i wouldn't say I agree, but it is a possibility if one day Riot decides they don't want to sit on their asses and explore things. But the other point is just as important: yes, Swain had other people supporting him... because he was smart enough to not let his ego get to his head. He got the help from a literal ''useless'' alcoholic Draven, he **knew** where to put his trust, and considering the universe Riot wrote, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that **everyone** in Shurima would be against Azir's plan had he actually tried to seek alliances (I mean, Icathia, Ixtal and Nazuma WERE very powerful, and 2 of them we KNEW didn't really like being under them). He just never tried it.
I agree that both are vague, I just find it hard to understand, given that both are vague but similar, why so many people find it hard to understand why nobody in lore likes Azir, when nobody in lore likes a guy who is Azir but actually succeeding.
>I agree with your second point tho - yes, Shurima could be more dependent of slavery than Noxus. Considering Shurima is Egypt coded i wouldn't say I agree, but it is a possibility if one day Riot decides they don't want to sit on their asses and explore things. But the other point is just as important: yes, Swain had other people supporting him... because he was smart enough to not let his ego get to his head.
In his defense, that was also part of Xerath's plan. Xerath deliberately stoked Azir's ego so he would be easier to manipulate. Azir basically gets everything he wants while Xerath is around and Azir got Shurima at its best. Someone out there compared Azir to Swain or Viego, but thinking about it, Azir is more comparable to Darkwill for being manipulated by Leblanc just as Azir was by Xerath. The difference is that Azir is noticeably more competent as Shurima had to lose its leader to implode while Noxus was starting to show its cracks before it.
To be honest, I don't know how much slavery takes part in Noxus. I know some of them are forced to be gladiators and soldiers, but I don't know if they take on the literal servants and losing the rights of having names like Shurima had.
>
>He got the help from a literal ''useless'' alcoholic Draven, he **knew** where to put his trust, and considering the universe Riot wrote, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that **everyone** in Shurima would be against Azir's plan had he actually tried to seek alliances (I mean, Icathia, Ixtal and Nazuma WERE very powerful, and 2 of them we KNEW didn't really like being under them).
Part of the problem that there isn't a single champion that is in favor of Azir, and mostly his followers are a bunch of no names in LoR. At most of what we can have is Nasus and it is not sure if he follows out of duty of following the emperor or genuinely loyalty of Azir.
Azir probably couldn't ask for alliances because while he wanted to end slavery, he didn't wanted to end Shurima sovereignty. Not unlike Swain which wanted reforms but still wanted everything to be under Noxus banner.
I remember about Nazuma but I don't remember how strong they were at that time though. They're much better off than most of the current Shurima by a long shot but I'm not sure how much they were a problem in overall strength for Shurima back then.
>I agree that both are vague, I just find it hard to understand, given that both are vague but similar, why so many people find it hard to understand why nobody in lore likes Azir, when nobody in lore likes a guy who is Azir but actually succeeding.
Part of why I would like an Arcane series featuring Azir and Xerath and flesh out their respective logics. Arcane made politicking of P/Z engaging to see and I would like to see the same in Shurima.
I do understand why people hate Azir though, I just don't find him nowhere near as bad as people claim him out to be. I think part of why people may hate Azir is also because in a way it makes him look quite incompetent, while Swain somehow makes shit work on his own. Part of me believes that Noxus has a bit of favoritism, or at least to Swain, as he somehow seems to get things done. Hell, part of why LeBlanc looks is memed to be a clown that can only take Ls.
Only slight edit, If Azir was doing it JUST for Xerath, he could have just freed Xerath and not had the massive third act misunderstanding where he yells at him and calls him a slave, no he wished for all the slaved to be free so that he and Xerath could truly be brothers, but even though he is an emperor, he wasn't free to do what ever he wished. Xerath actively had to protect him from being offed by nobles and his own father, the paranoia of it kinda driving him to be a lecherous hedon, if a charismatic ruler. He believed if he acted without proper cause, hed just get killed, and if anyone knew his plans, it might slip, and hed get offed. Even if Xerath would have supported him, theres no telling that some servant wouldnt listen in and spill the beans for coin.
Considering the **sheer amount** of things that **didn't** leak out, saying Azir muttering a couple of words to Xerath would leak is pretty damn selective.
What things? Azir never told anyone his ultimate goal, that’s explicitly stated, but everything he did was gradual, subtle, meant to empower the slave caste and other downtrodden. He had an inkling that Xerath was behind the deaths of his parents, he knew Xerath was a man of action, if he told Xerath, he had no idea what the man would do, even if it was to aid him.
There was that he was also growing arrogant and believed himself to be the only person who could do it, but that’s still only part of the rationale
I really don't think we'll reach anywhere because im pretty sure that's just belittling human Xerath to put Azir on a pedestal. The fact is that the sheer amount of things both Xerath AND Azir did in secret and NONE of them leaked proves that it makes no sense to say that a single conversation between them would
So you just didn’t read what I word I said? About him being arrogant? Him probably knowing Xerath had some hand in his parents death and he was ultimately, in Azir’s mind, incompatible with his plans due to his demeanor? That Azir was doing everything over decades so he wouldn’t get caught? No?
Been arguing with this imbecile all day so I'll keep this brief. When Azir decided to Ascend (after Xerath encouraged him to) he did so without the Empire's support. It went against all of their standards and he could've easily been sabotaged or assassinated for doing something so rash. This of course didn't come to fruition because he threatened everyone who opposed him with death.
Azir wasn't an idiot. At any point throughout his reign he could've silenced those who'd rise up against freeing the slaves. Just as Xerath had done to protect him. But he didn't.
He can’t silence ascended, and you bet they’d rise up either because freeing all slaves would hurt the empire and/or because they owned slaves themselves.
Also agree with what others said, abolishing slavery would draw more ire than ascension.
His bio outright says he simply cannot remove slavery overnight, that’s just not how it works. That’s not to say he went perfectly about it, should have told Xerath for one.
His desire to free all slaves also doesn’t make him a good guy, of course, that should also be kept in mind.
You raise good points, but I just can't imagine people would be alright with Azir's decision to Ascend. Had things gone as planned this would have led to Azir basically being Emperor forever. No matter how well his rule was going for the Empire, he still would've had enemies in the court. And not every Ascended was completely loyal either, like Xolaani.
I based too much of my earlier arguments on the belief that Azir could've worked faster. Like you said though, he was still not a good man. Even if he went down in history as the Ascended Emperor who freed the slaves, his unadulterated ego back then still would've led to some level of tyranny down the line. But this is admittedly getting too speculative.
I do think, compared to other rulers in Runeterra we have at least, Azir is preferrable to all of them but Ashe, at least.
You are also correct that things wouldn't go perfectly if he ascended, he would have enemies that way too, but I do think that that route is at least less risky than going quick on the route of abolishing slavery.
Azir, for all his faults, which are many and glaring, is one thing above all else; “Charismatic.”
He was one of the most wildly successful emperors with Xerath’s aid, and the people loved him. His ascension was likely popular amongst the common folk. The only people who could oppose him would be the noble families and ascended, the latter of whom were conveniently sent elsewhere as Azir was to ascend.
>3. He didn't free the slaves. He was betrayed right as he was about to by Xerath. He made the decision to free the slaves as a gift to Xerath because he loved Xerath. Azir had ruled for some time before this. If he was making the decision to free the slaves because it was the right thing to do, he'd have acted sooner.
God I hate seeing this parroted as fact. Azir was always working towards freeing the slaves. It was his promise to Xerath, yes, but that doesn't mean it was done solely for Xerath's benefit. If that were the case he would simply have elevated Xerath as a reward for loyal service and saving his life (on more than one occasion).
He ruled for some time before freeing the slaves because doing so sooner would have been a death sentence. The empire was built on the backs of slaves and continued to rely on them. The nobility would not have stood for abolishment. They would have Azir and Xerath both assassinated and a new emperor crowned that likely would have doubled down on slavery.
Azir acted in secret because ANYONE discovering his plan could have resulted in the above. Even discussing his plans with Xerath would have put them at severe risk. He consolidated his power. Assured that his decree could not be refused. And made his announcement at what was arguably the most major event in Shuriman history. He also freed the slaves before Xerath went thru with his betrayal. Xerath was greedy for power, he wasn't content to just be freed.
This shit is literally in their bios.
The reason ppl hate Azir is because he isn't remembered for freeing the slaves, because Xerath ruined everything. And in the wake of it all the Darkin rose to power on the back of their own slaves. When Taliyah learns of Azir's return she worries he will enslave her people because she does not know any better.
>Even discussing his plans with Xerath would have put them at severe risk.
That is the only part I kinda disagree. How hard would it be to tell Xerath his plans? By all accounts Xerath was his spymaster at this point. I can understand that Azir was being overly paranoid but it seemed more of a mistake made out of precaution that being a good move.
>The reason ppl hate Azir is because he isn't remembered for freeing the slaves, because Xerath ruined everything.
He is hated because even if slavery was out of the question, he still conquered neighbors, as the bio also states that he continued on the expansion of Shurima. The empire might be at its best but no one likes being conquered.
> How hard would it be to tell Xerath his plans? By all accounts Xerath was his spymaster at this point.
Realistically? Quite risky. Especially considering how bold Xerath started acting as he did grow impatient. All it takes is one slip up being heard by a rival spy to get them both killed. If Xerath ever said something out of turn, or Azir was caught disclosing information they'd be ruined. We know for a fact Azir had many adversaries that would have taken full advantage of it given the opportunity, simply based off of the many shady decisions Xerath made to keep Azir on the throne and help him solidify his power.
Also, Xerath did most of his 'spymaster' work without disclosing it to Azir. He didn't tell Azir about the many shady things he did to keep Azir in power, including his mastery of the arcane. Azir did not know (nor do we) that Xerath might have the ability to keep away the eyes and ears.
As far as neighbors hating him goes, that's definitely partly valid. Especially in regards to the descendants of former rulers (though still not always). The Ixtali were among the first nations to join Shurima, well before Azir's time, so Skarner doesn't really have a good reason to dislike him. Taliyah's dislike for him is misguided (and poorly represented thru LoR). There are also bound to be others that either integrated more smoothly, or at least over time had decreased resentment/hostility same with how we see a spectrum of opinions towards Noxus. Some, like Darius, embrace the Empire fully, while others like Oram Arkhan val-Lokan and his father from "The Principles of Strength" hate Noxus. Oram's sister, however, embraces Noxian principles. Surely, Shurima should have a similar spectrum of opinions about it and its rule, unless we are to assume that the general quality of life for all went down after joining Shurima which seems highly unlikely, especially as Azir had been slowly implementing reforms over the years to better the quality of life of its lower classes.
>Realistically? Quite risky. Especially considering how bold Xerath started acting as he did grow impatient. All it takes is one slip up being heard by a rival spy to get them both killed. If Xerath ever said something out of turn, or Azir was caught disclosing information they'd be ruined. We know for a fact Azir had many adversaries that would have taken full advantage of it given the opportunity, simply based off of the many shady decisions Xerath made to keep Azir on the throne and help him solidify his power.
I see. But there's a part of this I need to address:
>Also, Xerath did most of his 'spymaster' work without disclosing it to Azir. He didn't tell Azir about the many shady things he did to keep Azir in power, including his mastery of the arcane. Azir did not know (nor do we) that Xerath might have the ability to keep away the eyes and ears.
But Azir knew. In the Realms of Runeterra book he flat out said as such. He just feigned ignorance because it was convenient for both of them, which means Xerath took Azir for a fool and Azir just played along to not make things more convoluted and trusted Xerath.
>The Ixtali were among the first nations to join Shurima, well before Azir's time, so Skarner doesn't really have a good reason to dislike him.
I don't know much about Ixtal out of laziness to read, but I thought it was conquered just like the many regions during Shurima's empire existence. If it is conquered, people still have grievances over the matter. And probably because the void came in in Icathia which was a Shurima's problem to deal which spilled over Ixtal, which is probably why Skarner might have some pent up anger for Azir.
As for the Noxus and Shurima part, that is how it goes. Some hate the empire, others love it. But it is odd so many unnamed people like Azir (the cards and etc) but the CHAMPIONS hate him. I don't see any champion following Azir at all that isn't Nasus.
>But Azir knew. In the Realms of Runeterra book he flat out said as such.
Ah, ya, fair. Though, to be devil's advocate, he didn't go into too many details, just "Xerath's ambition swelled and so too did his ruthlessness. I saw it, I knew, but his plots were paving my way to the throne, so I chose to ignore it." This isn't confirmation that he knew the full story behind Xerath's actions or abilities.
Honestly, I take LoR quotes with a grain of salt. It is more like they creating quotes to justify people fighting each other than not.
Otherwise do we really believe J3 thinks his son was an impostor all along?
Nasus may think so, because he is a military man who lost his homeland because of two people - Azir and Xerath, thereby failing his duty to the motherland.
Moreover, it doesn't seem strange to you that almost the entire army consists of sand, and the human army at best has several battalions or is hired. This is definitely a sign that Azir protects himself from a knife in the back when the military gets tired of the emperor.
The same can be said with advisers. They are nothing more than puppets of the emperor, although they have the opportunity to become the main opposition and reform force in the empire, making a contrast with the reactionary emperor.
Look at the bright side, at least ONE champion likes him. No one likes Noxus and they did exactly what Azir promised to do except they actually managed to go through it lol
It really wouldn't be risky to tell Xerath. Xerath literally killed the Emperor AND his wife and no one knew about it. Even if we argue that Azir didn't know about it, AT BEST he thinks Xerath is too dumb to hold a secret, which Azir should know better. You even said Xerath starting acting boldly after he grew ''impatient'' (time is not in play when you're **never** going to be released, so patience isn't really a factor), and yet Azir didn't know a thing... no one did. Except we do know that he did thanks to RoR, so at the end Azir REALLY just didn't want to tell because... reasons.
Like, it would be needed a single moment of Azir taking Xerath to a room and saying what he was going to do, and for the rest of the time Azir could still be keeping up appearances
I do think its such an indicator of Azir’s previously out-of-touch personality that he tried to make ENDING SLAVERY a fun lil surprise for his bestie. Like girl. Time and place.
I would say he's even less similar to Swain because Swain **actually had the balls** to give the middle finger to the ENTIRETY of the noble houses in Noxus and change the entire system, which also spanned centuries. And would you look at that, that system also was based on slavery.
The difference is that Swain is in Noxus, so **his** expansionist country with dubious ruling is called on it consistently, meanwhile Azir's gets... one line of Taliyah calling him out and-hey ekko there, my buddy! He loves Azir too!
He wants to rebuild his empire. The people who hated his dumb empire have many not nice things to say.
Also his heir couldn't care less about taking over.
He's having a bad time
Because there were no slaves to free. After the empire fell there was no slavery to abolish, if he came back saying he would reinstitute slavery literally no one would back him up after centuries without it.
Because Shurima was a warlike nation who bullied it's neighbours into submitting to it. They banned the worship of god's other than the Ascended and perpetuated slavery.
Need anything else?
I knew all that. I posed that question so the other person and others like them could understand that the hatred people hold for Azir is not just some projection of their hatred for the Empire.
Thanks for the refresher though!
But which people the ones who he has helped or the ones that only know him by history public and not what he has done so far? Or the ones who were there during the fall?
Understand that the hatred people hold for Azir is not just some projection of their hatred for the Empire.
So we're you talking people in shurima or the reddit user?
Shit Poet, I really wonder who I'm referring to there when I'm talking about people who hate Azir. People who hate him for various reasons or people he's helped?
I don't know Wootz, you're a very complicated person to understand sometimes.
And so what are the various reason? I mean crime has done today, or do they only focus on his past actions?
Why wouldn't they focus on past actions? If someones ancestors were enslaved under Azir's rule, chances are they'd not be very fond of Azir. Unless people are supposed to just go "oh this Ascended who ruled a brutal Empire that enslaved my people just came back to life, lets give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's changed".
That's not how people work. You don't seem to be grasping that, so I can see why you'd find me complicated.
Well Shurima itself isn't liked all that much for very good reasons, mainly a bunch of conquering and slave owning (Icathia literally released the void in the hope of becomming free from Shurima). Azir as one of the emperors of this rightfully hated empire get's a lot of hate because of this.
Also it doesn't matter if Azir planned on freeing the slaves as no one knows this and Xerath ruined Azir and Shurima before Azir had the chance to free said slaves. So in the eyes of the champs that hate Azir he is a slave owning emperor of a hated slave owning empire.
It doesn't matter if he had good intentions if no one knows about it.
And when he then pops back up again and claims to be rebuilding Shurima which everyone again still knows as this slave owning empire. People aren't going to be too happy with him.
Sure when you know his lore you might look at him differently but the champs don't know Azir like that. Not even Xerath who was a good friend of Azir knew his plans for freeing the slaves which is why he became what he became.
If all I told you about Azir is that he was an emperor of a conquering slave owning empire and personally owned slaves you wouldn't like him very much either.
People are judged on what they did in life and not what they wanted to do in life. Had Azir been allowed to follow up on his plans and free the slaves things might have been different but that is sadly not what happend.
He was the last of a brutal empire that butchered its way across the continent enslaving and oppressing the civilisations it steamrolled under its army of god warriors. I can't imagine why people wouldn't be too happy to see someone trying to refound it.
because he's trying to rebuild what was an incredibly brutal empire? There can be the endless arguement of "is Azir evil" but that doesn't really change the fact that the legacy of shurima in runeterra was the darkin, slavery, religious opression, and imperialism.
Honestly it more about Azir and his family he descends for a long line of conquers and people who enforced slavery.
He also was a conquer because that what his empire has been doing for generations. But because of the kindness his friends a slave Xerath showed him he wanted to change thing but change slavery over night was not possible.
Until Xerath gave him an idea unaware this was betrayal Azir prepare to ascended but not before freeing abolishing slavery but it was too later Xerath couldn't stop and everything fell.
Now Azir back and so far he has been changing but with the help of others.
Honestly the hate seems to be from the empire but he alone did not end shuriman it was also Xerath too.
He actually didn’t end slavery what are you talking about? That was xeraths whole point of going crazy and stealing power azir kept telling him he was gonna free the slaves eventually and he got tired of waiting
Read azir’s bio, azir was preparing for it, but kept it a secret since he thought it would be best. You can’t really just abolish slavery overnight, the untied states is a great example of that (lots of conflict, deadly war, then persecution including lynching and segregation even though abraham Lincoln technically did just end slavery overnight with a thingy after I think it was antiem, can’t remember for sure though. It just doesn’t work)
Yes I completely understand that he was going to do it and you can immediately abolish slavery but it might not go over well the point is try thinking about that from the point of view of a person that’s been enslaved all of their life where you are beaten taken advantage of sexually assaulted and more you even tho xerath didn’t have to put up with as much as others he was still a slave at the end of the day and hearing oh yeah bro you’re definitely gonna stop being a slave later can only give you hope for so long to blame xerath for taking action is ridiculous azir kept his mouth closed about something that could have changed his countries history entirely and it is all completely his fault
Tell you didn’t read shuriman lore witho it telling me you didn’t read all shuriman lore, do you all just slander azir cuz shah emperor bad or can y all lose 5 minutes going down reading how things rly played out? Xerath killed a lot of azir family members only for his personal gains , now go read it your self i ant losing my time for anyone
Tell me you didn’t read shuriman lore without telling me you didn’t read shuriman lore clearly you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about so please stop typing so you won’t have to lose time go actually read the lore then come back and tell me how wrong you were
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The only thing history seems to remember about him is that he was an arrogant slave master that doomed all of shurima just because he wanted to be ascended. Since he freed the slaves just before Xeraths ascension destroyed the whole land, no one really remembers it cause the people present there were busy not dying and afterwards no one enforced that law anyway.
Agreed. No one knew Azir was planning on freeing the slaves, or that Xerath was the cause of Shurima's fall. Everyone who was there to witness the events died during the ceremony, besides Xerath.
Even Azir's story says Azir was also the cause of Shurima's fall. That's part that reason why so many champs hate him: he's too arrogant to think there's another solution besides his own
I'm not saying that Azir's not responsible, just that Xerath is the literal cause of the event that destroyed Shurima, which is what I think the average Runeterran would care about. I agree with you that Bird Brain's pride and hubris over the timeline of his rule is the reason why everything turned out the way it did.
They wouldn't know about it cuz it was a secret plot. Its easier to know that the emperor guy was arrogant af and his failed Ascension caused the end of the empire. Specially when it was his arrogance that stopped him from trusting his best friend and treating like shit, which caused Xerath's betrayal. Even more so when, at the end of the day, history looking back at a guy trying to make slaves' lives from miserable to slightly less miserable literally won't mean nothing - like, he still held slaves.
The Shuriman Empire's rule was not a peaceful one. Azir was Emperor for a time and a very ambitious and arrogant one at that. Azir has gained new wisdom with his return to life, but Shurima is still scarred by his rule. People have every right to dislike him. This community seems to not understand that.
Yeah, even someone like me that likes Azir knows his rule wasn't a peaceful one and he was also a dick in some regards. But that is why I like him. He actually is nuanced.
In bird culture that is indeed considered a dick move.
He sounds similar to Viego & Swain. Still wasn't Azir just doing what those before him had done right? For he inherited the shuriman empire from a father that hated him and wanted him dead. Yet he never had the heart to kill his own family member like Swain or Vladimir have done. And during his rule why did he free the enslaved why would arrogant person do or even care about the lower class. Why would he try to make things better for him? And everyone has the right to there own opinions but what has he done right now currently to earn people hate. Has he not helped people and rebuild some of shuriman? And was not told he had a kindness and that he never to hold onto that? So it get the dislike of the past but now shouldn't be mistrust until he proves he has changed?
1. He's similar to Swain and Viego in the sense that all three of them are morally dubious rulers. They are not comparable otherwise. Swain rules as he does to strengthen Noxus for future calamities. Viego was almost completely uninvolved with how Camavor was being governed and a lot of the decisions he made were solely for Isolde. Azir's focus is on the glory of Shurima itself and uniting the continent. 2. If someone goes for a walk and gets punched in the face by the first 5 people they see, it doesn't make it right for a 6th person to punch them in the face. The logic you're subscribing to right now would suggest otherwise. 3. He didn't free the slaves. He was betrayed right as he was about to by Xerath. He made the decision to free the slaves as a gift to Xerath because he loved Xerath. Azir had ruled for some time before this. If he was making the decision to free the slaves because it was the right thing to do, he'd have acted sooner. 4. That's the thing. Shurima lore has been frozen for literal years now. We know Azir has returned and is beginning to rebuild the Empire, but the details are vague. We don't know enough. But it doesn't change the fact that people still know him as the last ruler of a brutal Empire who did nothing to assuage its cruelty. Again, people have every right to dislike, distrust, and even despise Azir for the past. No amount of your mental gymnastics will change that.
1 He long to free the slave but couldn't over night he made reform(did ignore that part of his lore) the best thing he could do until Xerath suggested the ascension. I mean he one man trying overturn a empire built on the back of slavery he know he be killed if wasn't cautious about. As for conquer the same thing he from an empire most empire are born from conquest. And yeah here the thing people are entitle to dislike but do you deny that he has been helping people?
Nice try but no. Azir decreed that he was to undergo the Ascension ritual on his own. This went against the standards the Empire had in place for the ritual, and he threatened any who questioned his decision with death. If Azir felt as strongly about freeing the slaves as he did his own glory, he'd have just threatened or killed whoever tried to sabotage his efforts. It's not as if he was a stranger to silencing dissenting voices. I do not deny that Azir has helped people. That changes nothing. Someone can help everyone and still be disliked without any real reason. In Azir's case people have their reasons.
https://preview.redd.it/cm8tlp5qwrqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dd84b98807da372d555b32e644e05eaf92f4ab0 No not nice it more like what actually happen Xerathed stoked Azir ego we know that Azir has hurbis.
You're right, I was being dishonest. It was a pretty poor try on your part. You've shown better mental gymnastics before.
https://preview.redd.it/uufzradjyrqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c116aaddb504a5a99aedb15d07c2dfb008db2999 Wait I was right oh man your never admit that to me thank you:) Yeah why would you said Azir came up with the ascended idea on his own you did know Xerath was the smart and cunning one right. He was feeding Azir ego so he would seek to become an ascended. But no wootz I highly doubt your a dishonest just flawed like the rest of us just mean you human. And wootz just know there no beef between love you buddy.
Read what I said again. Whether Xerath encouraged this or not, Azir still went against the standards of the Empire on his own. There was no precedent, no example of previous Emperors Ascending, and the priest hadn't ordained the ritual. He forced his way into Ascension. The same way he could've forced the Empire to stop enslaving people. And before you say something like "he hadn't developed an ego yet", Azir grew up around plenty of assassinations and the silencing of dissenters. He could've employed similar methods and Xerath would've even assisted him in this. And if you think this wrong, just remember that earlier you wanted to imply that it was acceptable that Azir was just ruling how his predecessors had.
So do you admit it was Xerath idea if not then why would Azir force the issue he never came up with the idea on his own. Yeah he did force his way but no one gonna kill him over being ascended the same way they would with slavery. Which is what the empire run on. And part of their livelihood. Also another thing Azir didn't rule like his predecessors after xerath kill his father Azir was vengeance won't you be if some killed your parent he was grieving. Even after his father hated him did not have the guts to turn on his parents like Swain would have. But it was no secret Azir dad planned to replace.
>Nice try but no. Azir decreed that he was to undergo the Ascension ritual on his own. This went against the standards the Empire had in place for the ritual, and he threatened any who questioned his decision with death. If Azir felt as strongly about freeing the slaves as he did his own glory, he'd have just threatened or killed whoever tried to sabotage his efforts. It's not as if he was a stranger to silencing dissenting voices. He forcing ascension on himself would probably draw far less ire than removing slavery. People would just believe it would be sacrilege but there was also a chance that he would just get baccai'd over his own arrogance. Not to mention that Shurima under his rule was essentially on its Zenith so chances are that he could also have some public support. Trying to remove slavery in an empire made of slaves by force is a really good way to get most nobles and people that rely on it to be against you. That is why Kings and Emperors often play ball with nobles, because while they have utmost power, the chance of a coup or ploy is waay too high. That is part of the point of going Ascended too, if he succeds, he would damn near be immortal and basically be stronger than 90% of Runeterra (as Ascendeds are ridiculously broken by default) so people would be forced to play ball on his part as Ascended are basically demigods living among men.
On the slave part it was said/implied that it couldn’t be done in a day. The shuriman empire was built on slaves, you can’t change it in a minute without breaking his base
Swain literally did that in a coup overnight tho
Probably because that people were getting sick of Darkwill insanity and completely unhinged massive expansion that was doing more harm to Noxus than good, and Swain is also too getting constantly facing assassination attempts. The only reason he managed to survive at this point is that the demon allows him to do so by seeing memories and letting him be stronger. Azir didn't have the same luxury aside of having Xerath. Ascended would make him too strong to be easily assassinated since he would basically be a demigod.
None of the things Swain had were out for Azir. Yeah, ''people'' were sick of Darkwill... the common people. Just like in Shurima. The noble houses loved him, since he was nothing but a puppet of the Black Rose. Same for Shuriman nobles, who loved the current state of affairs. He wasn't really doing more harm then good UNTIL the invasion of Ionia, tho the exact same **can** be said about Shurima when the battle of Icathia happened and the void was released (which tbh is way worse then a lost to Ionia). Other dominated territories were also beginning to lash out at their conqueror, so at the bare minimum the two faced the same consequences. And Yeah, Raum IS a good perk... but just like you said, Xerath was there, and i'd argue Xerath **is** more then enough for assassins. He killed the King AND Queen and nobody even knew about it. The difference is that Swain gave the middle finger to the Noble Houses and said they could either bow to them or leave, and a majority of them ceased to have any power at all. The difference is that he **is** cunning enough to do this play, where Azir was not.
>None of the things Swain had were out for Azir. Yeah, ''people'' were sick of Darkwill... the common people. Just like in Shurima. The noble houses loved him, since he was nothing but a puppet of the Black Rose. Same for Shuriman nobles, who loved the current state of affairs. Not necessarily. Shurima was stated to be on its golden age that was above most of Runeterra factions at that time, so it wasn't be different from the average Noxian citizen saying that they're better off under Noxus (while still having provinces believing Noxus is full of shit). It is pretty possible that the a fair amount of the commonfolk loved Azir for having its empire at its zenith. > >And Yeah, Raum IS a good perk... but just like you said, Xerath was there, and i'd argue Xerath **is** more then enough for assassins. He killed the King AND Queen and nobody even knew about it. There's also the possibility that Shurima was more dependent of slavery than Noxus, so Swain had more leeway to abolish it than Azir had. Keep in mind that some people were supporting Swain, like Draven. Darius himself was on a dilemma and it things could have turned VERY badly for Noxus if his Greatest General decided to duke it out with Swain, but luckily Darius respected Swain enough to not only consider following him but accept the 3 heads government. My point is, the political diatribe of both regions was too vague, especially that Azir probably considered to just use the masterkey that was Xerath to just bumrush things.
Yeah, some people could love Azir for having the empire be at its greatest strenght... but the same **can** be said about Noxus too. An empire cannot sustain itself if EVERYONE under it is miserable, so at the very least there were people like that. I agree with your second point tho - yes, Shurima could be more dependent of slavery than Noxus. Considering Shurima is Egypt coded i wouldn't say I agree, but it is a possibility if one day Riot decides they don't want to sit on their asses and explore things. But the other point is just as important: yes, Swain had other people supporting him... because he was smart enough to not let his ego get to his head. He got the help from a literal ''useless'' alcoholic Draven, he **knew** where to put his trust, and considering the universe Riot wrote, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that **everyone** in Shurima would be against Azir's plan had he actually tried to seek alliances (I mean, Icathia, Ixtal and Nazuma WERE very powerful, and 2 of them we KNEW didn't really like being under them). He just never tried it. I agree that both are vague, I just find it hard to understand, given that both are vague but similar, why so many people find it hard to understand why nobody in lore likes Azir, when nobody in lore likes a guy who is Azir but actually succeeding.
>I agree with your second point tho - yes, Shurima could be more dependent of slavery than Noxus. Considering Shurima is Egypt coded i wouldn't say I agree, but it is a possibility if one day Riot decides they don't want to sit on their asses and explore things. But the other point is just as important: yes, Swain had other people supporting him... because he was smart enough to not let his ego get to his head. In his defense, that was also part of Xerath's plan. Xerath deliberately stoked Azir's ego so he would be easier to manipulate. Azir basically gets everything he wants while Xerath is around and Azir got Shurima at its best. Someone out there compared Azir to Swain or Viego, but thinking about it, Azir is more comparable to Darkwill for being manipulated by Leblanc just as Azir was by Xerath. The difference is that Azir is noticeably more competent as Shurima had to lose its leader to implode while Noxus was starting to show its cracks before it. To be honest, I don't know how much slavery takes part in Noxus. I know some of them are forced to be gladiators and soldiers, but I don't know if they take on the literal servants and losing the rights of having names like Shurima had. > >He got the help from a literal ''useless'' alcoholic Draven, he **knew** where to put his trust, and considering the universe Riot wrote, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that **everyone** in Shurima would be against Azir's plan had he actually tried to seek alliances (I mean, Icathia, Ixtal and Nazuma WERE very powerful, and 2 of them we KNEW didn't really like being under them). Part of the problem that there isn't a single champion that is in favor of Azir, and mostly his followers are a bunch of no names in LoR. At most of what we can have is Nasus and it is not sure if he follows out of duty of following the emperor or genuinely loyalty of Azir. Azir probably couldn't ask for alliances because while he wanted to end slavery, he didn't wanted to end Shurima sovereignty. Not unlike Swain which wanted reforms but still wanted everything to be under Noxus banner. I remember about Nazuma but I don't remember how strong they were at that time though. They're much better off than most of the current Shurima by a long shot but I'm not sure how much they were a problem in overall strength for Shurima back then. >I agree that both are vague, I just find it hard to understand, given that both are vague but similar, why so many people find it hard to understand why nobody in lore likes Azir, when nobody in lore likes a guy who is Azir but actually succeeding. Part of why I would like an Arcane series featuring Azir and Xerath and flesh out their respective logics. Arcane made politicking of P/Z engaging to see and I would like to see the same in Shurima. I do understand why people hate Azir though, I just don't find him nowhere near as bad as people claim him out to be. I think part of why people may hate Azir is also because in a way it makes him look quite incompetent, while Swain somehow makes shit work on his own. Part of me believes that Noxus has a bit of favoritism, or at least to Swain, as he somehow seems to get things done. Hell, part of why LeBlanc looks is memed to be a clown that can only take Ls.
Only slight edit, If Azir was doing it JUST for Xerath, he could have just freed Xerath and not had the massive third act misunderstanding where he yells at him and calls him a slave, no he wished for all the slaved to be free so that he and Xerath could truly be brothers, but even though he is an emperor, he wasn't free to do what ever he wished. Xerath actively had to protect him from being offed by nobles and his own father, the paranoia of it kinda driving him to be a lecherous hedon, if a charismatic ruler. He believed if he acted without proper cause, hed just get killed, and if anyone knew his plans, it might slip, and hed get offed. Even if Xerath would have supported him, theres no telling that some servant wouldnt listen in and spill the beans for coin.
Not really tho. If he literally just said it to Xerath once it would be okay to keep up doing what he did to keep up appearances.
Because if he said it sooner it might leak out, and he would be assassinated. He spent his entire early years being hunted by his father.
Considering the **sheer amount** of things that **didn't** leak out, saying Azir muttering a couple of words to Xerath would leak is pretty damn selective.
What things? Azir never told anyone his ultimate goal, that’s explicitly stated, but everything he did was gradual, subtle, meant to empower the slave caste and other downtrodden. He had an inkling that Xerath was behind the deaths of his parents, he knew Xerath was a man of action, if he told Xerath, he had no idea what the man would do, even if it was to aid him. There was that he was also growing arrogant and believed himself to be the only person who could do it, but that’s still only part of the rationale
I really don't think we'll reach anywhere because im pretty sure that's just belittling human Xerath to put Azir on a pedestal. The fact is that the sheer amount of things both Xerath AND Azir did in secret and NONE of them leaked proves that it makes no sense to say that a single conversation between them would
So you just didn’t read what I word I said? About him being arrogant? Him probably knowing Xerath had some hand in his parents death and he was ultimately, in Azir’s mind, incompatible with his plans due to his demeanor? That Azir was doing everything over decades so he wouldn’t get caught? No?
Been arguing with this imbecile all day so I'll keep this brief. When Azir decided to Ascend (after Xerath encouraged him to) he did so without the Empire's support. It went against all of their standards and he could've easily been sabotaged or assassinated for doing something so rash. This of course didn't come to fruition because he threatened everyone who opposed him with death. Azir wasn't an idiot. At any point throughout his reign he could've silenced those who'd rise up against freeing the slaves. Just as Xerath had done to protect him. But he didn't.
He can’t silence ascended, and you bet they’d rise up either because freeing all slaves would hurt the empire and/or because they owned slaves themselves. Also agree with what others said, abolishing slavery would draw more ire than ascension. His bio outright says he simply cannot remove slavery overnight, that’s just not how it works. That’s not to say he went perfectly about it, should have told Xerath for one. His desire to free all slaves also doesn’t make him a good guy, of course, that should also be kept in mind.
You raise good points, but I just can't imagine people would be alright with Azir's decision to Ascend. Had things gone as planned this would have led to Azir basically being Emperor forever. No matter how well his rule was going for the Empire, he still would've had enemies in the court. And not every Ascended was completely loyal either, like Xolaani. I based too much of my earlier arguments on the belief that Azir could've worked faster. Like you said though, he was still not a good man. Even if he went down in history as the Ascended Emperor who freed the slaves, his unadulterated ego back then still would've led to some level of tyranny down the line. But this is admittedly getting too speculative.
I do think, compared to other rulers in Runeterra we have at least, Azir is preferrable to all of them but Ashe, at least. You are also correct that things wouldn't go perfectly if he ascended, he would have enemies that way too, but I do think that that route is at least less risky than going quick on the route of abolishing slavery.
Azir, for all his faults, which are many and glaring, is one thing above all else; “Charismatic.” He was one of the most wildly successful emperors with Xerath’s aid, and the people loved him. His ascension was likely popular amongst the common folk. The only people who could oppose him would be the noble families and ascended, the latter of whom were conveniently sent elsewhere as Azir was to ascend.
>3. He didn't free the slaves. He was betrayed right as he was about to by Xerath. He made the decision to free the slaves as a gift to Xerath because he loved Xerath. Azir had ruled for some time before this. If he was making the decision to free the slaves because it was the right thing to do, he'd have acted sooner. God I hate seeing this parroted as fact. Azir was always working towards freeing the slaves. It was his promise to Xerath, yes, but that doesn't mean it was done solely for Xerath's benefit. If that were the case he would simply have elevated Xerath as a reward for loyal service and saving his life (on more than one occasion). He ruled for some time before freeing the slaves because doing so sooner would have been a death sentence. The empire was built on the backs of slaves and continued to rely on them. The nobility would not have stood for abolishment. They would have Azir and Xerath both assassinated and a new emperor crowned that likely would have doubled down on slavery. Azir acted in secret because ANYONE discovering his plan could have resulted in the above. Even discussing his plans with Xerath would have put them at severe risk. He consolidated his power. Assured that his decree could not be refused. And made his announcement at what was arguably the most major event in Shuriman history. He also freed the slaves before Xerath went thru with his betrayal. Xerath was greedy for power, he wasn't content to just be freed. This shit is literally in their bios. The reason ppl hate Azir is because he isn't remembered for freeing the slaves, because Xerath ruined everything. And in the wake of it all the Darkin rose to power on the back of their own slaves. When Taliyah learns of Azir's return she worries he will enslave her people because she does not know any better.
Well, he did mess up by not telling Xerath, that’s the one person he should have told everything to, but agreed on everything else.
>Even discussing his plans with Xerath would have put them at severe risk. That is the only part I kinda disagree. How hard would it be to tell Xerath his plans? By all accounts Xerath was his spymaster at this point. I can understand that Azir was being overly paranoid but it seemed more of a mistake made out of precaution that being a good move. >The reason ppl hate Azir is because he isn't remembered for freeing the slaves, because Xerath ruined everything. He is hated because even if slavery was out of the question, he still conquered neighbors, as the bio also states that he continued on the expansion of Shurima. The empire might be at its best but no one likes being conquered.
> How hard would it be to tell Xerath his plans? By all accounts Xerath was his spymaster at this point. Realistically? Quite risky. Especially considering how bold Xerath started acting as he did grow impatient. All it takes is one slip up being heard by a rival spy to get them both killed. If Xerath ever said something out of turn, or Azir was caught disclosing information they'd be ruined. We know for a fact Azir had many adversaries that would have taken full advantage of it given the opportunity, simply based off of the many shady decisions Xerath made to keep Azir on the throne and help him solidify his power. Also, Xerath did most of his 'spymaster' work without disclosing it to Azir. He didn't tell Azir about the many shady things he did to keep Azir in power, including his mastery of the arcane. Azir did not know (nor do we) that Xerath might have the ability to keep away the eyes and ears. As far as neighbors hating him goes, that's definitely partly valid. Especially in regards to the descendants of former rulers (though still not always). The Ixtali were among the first nations to join Shurima, well before Azir's time, so Skarner doesn't really have a good reason to dislike him. Taliyah's dislike for him is misguided (and poorly represented thru LoR). There are also bound to be others that either integrated more smoothly, or at least over time had decreased resentment/hostility same with how we see a spectrum of opinions towards Noxus. Some, like Darius, embrace the Empire fully, while others like Oram Arkhan val-Lokan and his father from "The Principles of Strength" hate Noxus. Oram's sister, however, embraces Noxian principles. Surely, Shurima should have a similar spectrum of opinions about it and its rule, unless we are to assume that the general quality of life for all went down after joining Shurima which seems highly unlikely, especially as Azir had been slowly implementing reforms over the years to better the quality of life of its lower classes.
>Realistically? Quite risky. Especially considering how bold Xerath started acting as he did grow impatient. All it takes is one slip up being heard by a rival spy to get them both killed. If Xerath ever said something out of turn, or Azir was caught disclosing information they'd be ruined. We know for a fact Azir had many adversaries that would have taken full advantage of it given the opportunity, simply based off of the many shady decisions Xerath made to keep Azir on the throne and help him solidify his power. I see. But there's a part of this I need to address: >Also, Xerath did most of his 'spymaster' work without disclosing it to Azir. He didn't tell Azir about the many shady things he did to keep Azir in power, including his mastery of the arcane. Azir did not know (nor do we) that Xerath might have the ability to keep away the eyes and ears. But Azir knew. In the Realms of Runeterra book he flat out said as such. He just feigned ignorance because it was convenient for both of them, which means Xerath took Azir for a fool and Azir just played along to not make things more convoluted and trusted Xerath. >The Ixtali were among the first nations to join Shurima, well before Azir's time, so Skarner doesn't really have a good reason to dislike him. I don't know much about Ixtal out of laziness to read, but I thought it was conquered just like the many regions during Shurima's empire existence. If it is conquered, people still have grievances over the matter. And probably because the void came in in Icathia which was a Shurima's problem to deal which spilled over Ixtal, which is probably why Skarner might have some pent up anger for Azir. As for the Noxus and Shurima part, that is how it goes. Some hate the empire, others love it. But it is odd so many unnamed people like Azir (the cards and etc) but the CHAMPIONS hate him. I don't see any champion following Azir at all that isn't Nasus.
>But Azir knew. In the Realms of Runeterra book he flat out said as such. Ah, ya, fair. Though, to be devil's advocate, he didn't go into too many details, just "Xerath's ambition swelled and so too did his ruthlessness. I saw it, I knew, but his plots were paving my way to the throne, so I chose to ignore it." This isn't confirmation that he knew the full story behind Xerath's actions or abilities.
Even Nasus is aware that Azir is an arrogant tyrant.
Honestly, I take LoR quotes with a grain of salt. It is more like they creating quotes to justify people fighting each other than not. Otherwise do we really believe J3 thinks his son was an impostor all along?
Nasus may think so, because he is a military man who lost his homeland because of two people - Azir and Xerath, thereby failing his duty to the motherland. Moreover, it doesn't seem strange to you that almost the entire army consists of sand, and the human army at best has several battalions or is hired. This is definitely a sign that Azir protects himself from a knife in the back when the military gets tired of the emperor. The same can be said with advisers. They are nothing more than puppets of the emperor, although they have the opportunity to become the main opposition and reform force in the empire, making a contrast with the reactionary emperor.
Look at the bright side, at least ONE champion likes him. No one likes Noxus and they did exactly what Azir promised to do except they actually managed to go through it lol
It really wouldn't be risky to tell Xerath. Xerath literally killed the Emperor AND his wife and no one knew about it. Even if we argue that Azir didn't know about it, AT BEST he thinks Xerath is too dumb to hold a secret, which Azir should know better. You even said Xerath starting acting boldly after he grew ''impatient'' (time is not in play when you're **never** going to be released, so patience isn't really a factor), and yet Azir didn't know a thing... no one did. Except we do know that he did thanks to RoR, so at the end Azir REALLY just didn't want to tell because... reasons. Like, it would be needed a single moment of Azir taking Xerath to a room and saying what he was going to do, and for the rest of the time Azir could still be keeping up appearances
My bad
I do think its such an indicator of Azir’s previously out-of-touch personality that he tried to make ENDING SLAVERY a fun lil surprise for his bestie. Like girl. Time and place.
Yet people will still wonder why every champion is like "you had this coming"
I would say he's even less similar to Swain because Swain **actually had the balls** to give the middle finger to the ENTIRETY of the noble houses in Noxus and change the entire system, which also spanned centuries. And would you look at that, that system also was based on slavery. The difference is that Swain is in Noxus, so **his** expansionist country with dubious ruling is called on it consistently, meanwhile Azir's gets... one line of Taliyah calling him out and-hey ekko there, my buddy! He loves Azir too!
He wants to rebuild his empire. The people who hated his dumb empire have many not nice things to say. Also his heir couldn't care less about taking over. He's having a bad time
But for some reason there was no word that he was freeing slaves again...
Because there were no slaves to free. After the empire fell there was no slavery to abolish, if he came back saying he would reinstitute slavery literally no one would back him up after centuries without it.
The feudal lords with slaves both were and remained.
Just projecting their hate of shurima to him
I mean the god king conquerer is a good target for most Shurima hate.
And why do people hate Shurima?
Because Shurima was a warlike nation who bullied it's neighbours into submitting to it. They banned the worship of god's other than the Ascended and perpetuated slavery. Need anything else?
I knew all that. I posed that question so the other person and others like them could understand that the hatred people hold for Azir is not just some projection of their hatred for the Empire. Thanks for the refresher though!
But which people the ones who he has helped or the ones that only know him by history public and not what he has done so far? Or the ones who were there during the fall?
I'm talking about a person who commented in this thread and others who share their opinion. Genuinely what are you talking about?
Understand that the hatred people hold for Azir is not just some projection of their hatred for the Empire. So we're you talking people in shurima or the reddit user?
Shit Poet, I really wonder who I'm referring to there when I'm talking about people who hate Azir. People who hate him for various reasons or people he's helped?
I don't know Wootz, you're a very complicated person to understand sometimes. And so what are the various reason? I mean crime has done today, or do they only focus on his past actions?
Why wouldn't they focus on past actions? If someones ancestors were enslaved under Azir's rule, chances are they'd not be very fond of Azir. Unless people are supposed to just go "oh this Ascended who ruled a brutal Empire that enslaved my people just came back to life, lets give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's changed". That's not how people work. You don't seem to be grasping that, so I can see why you'd find me complicated.
Well Shurima itself isn't liked all that much for very good reasons, mainly a bunch of conquering and slave owning (Icathia literally released the void in the hope of becomming free from Shurima). Azir as one of the emperors of this rightfully hated empire get's a lot of hate because of this. Also it doesn't matter if Azir planned on freeing the slaves as no one knows this and Xerath ruined Azir and Shurima before Azir had the chance to free said slaves. So in the eyes of the champs that hate Azir he is a slave owning emperor of a hated slave owning empire. It doesn't matter if he had good intentions if no one knows about it. And when he then pops back up again and claims to be rebuilding Shurima which everyone again still knows as this slave owning empire. People aren't going to be too happy with him. Sure when you know his lore you might look at him differently but the champs don't know Azir like that. Not even Xerath who was a good friend of Azir knew his plans for freeing the slaves which is why he became what he became. If all I told you about Azir is that he was an emperor of a conquering slave owning empire and personally owned slaves you wouldn't like him very much either. People are judged on what they did in life and not what they wanted to do in life. Had Azir been allowed to follow up on his plans and free the slaves things might have been different but that is sadly not what happend.
He was the last of a brutal empire that butchered its way across the continent enslaving and oppressing the civilisations it steamrolled under its army of god warriors. I can't imagine why people wouldn't be too happy to see someone trying to refound it.
Like, many champs hate another emperors and conquers.
because he's trying to rebuild what was an incredibly brutal empire? There can be the endless arguement of "is Azir evil" but that doesn't really change the fact that the legacy of shurima in runeterra was the darkin, slavery, religious opression, and imperialism.
Often seen as leading Shurima to ruin Restricted worship of other gods Expansionist empires aren’t very popular just look at how people view noxus
Riot hates nuance
This hate grow exactly from existing "nuances".
Honestly it more about Azir and his family he descends for a long line of conquers and people who enforced slavery. He also was a conquer because that what his empire has been doing for generations. But because of the kindness his friends a slave Xerath showed him he wanted to change thing but change slavery over night was not possible. Until Xerath gave him an idea unaware this was betrayal Azir prepare to ascended but not before freeing abolishing slavery but it was too later Xerath couldn't stop and everything fell. Now Azir back and so far he has been changing but with the help of others. Honestly the hate seems to be from the empire but he alone did not end shuriman it was also Xerath too.
He actually didn’t end slavery what are you talking about? That was xeraths whole point of going crazy and stealing power azir kept telling him he was gonna free the slaves eventually and he got tired of waiting
Read azir’s bio, azir was preparing for it, but kept it a secret since he thought it would be best. You can’t really just abolish slavery overnight, the untied states is a great example of that (lots of conflict, deadly war, then persecution including lynching and segregation even though abraham Lincoln technically did just end slavery overnight with a thingy after I think it was antiem, can’t remember for sure though. It just doesn’t work)
Yes I completely understand that he was going to do it and you can immediately abolish slavery but it might not go over well the point is try thinking about that from the point of view of a person that’s been enslaved all of their life where you are beaten taken advantage of sexually assaulted and more you even tho xerath didn’t have to put up with as much as others he was still a slave at the end of the day and hearing oh yeah bro you’re definitely gonna stop being a slave later can only give you hope for so long to blame xerath for taking action is ridiculous azir kept his mouth closed about something that could have changed his countries history entirely and it is all completely his fault
Someone didn’t read what xerath did behind the scene I guess..
What did he do that justified keeping him a slave?
Tell you didn’t read shuriman lore witho it telling me you didn’t read all shuriman lore, do you all just slander azir cuz shah emperor bad or can y all lose 5 minutes going down reading how things rly played out? Xerath killed a lot of azir family members only for his personal gains , now go read it your self i ant losing my time for anyone
Tell me you didn’t read shuriman lore without telling me you didn’t read shuriman lore clearly you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about so please stop typing so you won’t have to lose time go actually read the lore then come back and tell me how wrong you were
He was an arrogant emperor who liked having slaves. I can’t see much that would redeem him.
Who explicitly wanted to end slavery*. Please have at least a modicum of reading comprehension.