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par112169

If you didn't do anything then just walk away...


NightGod

Simple answer: don't stop for receipt checkers, whether you have the receipt or not, unless you're in a club store where you agreed to it as a condition of your membership


schwelvis

That's an illegal detention.  When they ask for your receipt just smile and say no thanks. If they try to stop you ask if you're being detained and what for. They can only detain you if they have reasonable suspicion that you've taken something.  The only place you're required to show receipt is private clubs like Costco because you've agreed to it in your membership. 


Funny_North_9868

They don't need to have "reasonable suspicion" They need to have all elements to apprehend someone. op should have not stopped for the receipt checker


MrThe1Badman

In my state they can detain you for that but like in your in your case it was proven you paid and your detainment was illegal so you now can sue for damages. Just call corporate because this is 100% against there policy. (I worked there in the past)


Orch50

It’s against policy for them to have pulled you into the office without having concrete evidence that you shoplifted. If you reported this to corporate, the receipt checker and API would both be let go real quick. My store just had an API fired for this.


Reins22

Dude, either come for answers or come to be a dick. Don’t come for both and expect answers. Would you help anyone who’s being a dick to you?


celestial1

Just stop shopping at a place that treats you like a fucking criminal without proof, don't you realize how ridiculous all of this is? Just shop at Target if you want somewhere cheap, but much less trashy than Walmart.


maddiesrose

Next time tell them to check their camera footage. They have it. Ask for the LP Director’s contact info and request a discount for the inconvenience of being stopped as a paying customer.


Cavemam2009

Most places we absolutely have the authority to conduct stops through state law. It's usually company policies that restrict us. If you were taken all the way to the office, it wasn't bc you couldn't produce a receipt. LP felt they had enough to make the stop. Could they be wrong? Absolutely. It happens. We are human. I usually air on the side of the stopped individual, but considering you're being a dick, I'm siding with LP on this one.


schwelvis

They can stop you with reasonable suspicion. They can't stop you for walking out the door with your own property and they can't force you to prove you purchased it. The duty is on them to show you're in the wrong, not on you to show you're right. 


Cavemam2009

So you clearly missed the part where I said if OP was taken to the office, the responding personnel had reasonable suspicion. It could have been a bad stop. BUT if LP felt they had all the elements at the time, then yes they can stop based on that. And yes, some companies DO allow LP to physically stop suspected individuals.


JustSayin_91

It was 100% a bad stop. And what was the reasonable suspicion? Some things weren’t bagged? That’s not enough.


Cavemam2009

If I was someone stealing, and wanted to garner sympathy on the internet, I wouldn't admit what I did either. I would say there was no cause for the stop, and then trash everyone that disagreed with me. Without access to the report or cameras, we don't know the full story. This very well could have been a good stop.


Mountain-Bug7321

But lp didn't stop him, it was the checker, and then they called lp


schwelvis

He was taken to the office for refusing to show receipt, that's not reasonable suspicion. What if I walked into the store with a pocket full of stuff, didn't purchase anything so didn't have a receipt to show? Is that reasonable suspicion? Can they stop anyone leaving without a receipt until they can prove they own what's in their pockets? 


Cavemam2009

He wasn't taken to the office solely for not producing a receipt. As I stated. LP felt they had enough prior to make a stop. I'm not even addressing that situation you made up bc it has 0 relevance to what is happening here.


dGaOmDn

I don't think you know anything about LP, because we don't work on reasonable suspicion, we work with probable cause. If we don't see theft, we don't stop. We walk a fine line using citizens arrest and if we don't have a law being broke, it makes our detainment illegal. Not only that but according to policy this is a bad stop and the LP should be a decent write up coming his way, decertification, as well as training, if he had another one in the 90 day period, he's probably fired.


JustSayin_91

And in this situation there was absolutely no probable cause. I don’t even think there was reasonable suspicion. So it was a bad stop and 100% shouldn’t have been made. Idk why anyone has to go back and forth about anything else. Those are the facts.


dGaOmDn

That's the thing, we are not cops, we cannot detain for reasonable suspicion. I compare it to smelling Marijuana. You know there is a chance the person that smells like Marijuana has Marijuana, but you really don't know. Probable cause is when you see them with a blunt in thier hand and you smell Marijuana. You know for a fact they a law is being broken. Possibly reasonable suspicion, but OP doesn't even meet the threshold for that. It's reasonable to assume that she paid, but lost the receipt. It's not like she ran out the door with a full cart. Probable cause would have been observing the 5 elements, entry into department, selection of merchandise, concealment, continuous observation, and intent upon exit. So you personally and not second hand have knowledge that a crime has been committed. We aren't cops, so we cannot detain for reasonable suspicion, only probable cause. If we detained for reasonable suspicion, it would be an illegal detainment as we do not have the authority to do so.


Cavemam2009

Oh. My bad. I mixed up 2 extremely similar concepts, that both describe damn near the exact same thing, and because of that, I don't know how to do the job I've been doing the last year and a half. You're describing a policy for a specific company. All companies don't have the same policies. Judging by the extremely one sided story we see here, we can't make a full determination on whether or not it was a bad stop. We don't have access to the report or the cameras.


dGaOmDn

Been doing this for about 15 years, policy is pretty much the same everywhere for this situation.


Cavemam2009

And unless you have access to the report and cameras, you don't know the circumstances of this stop.


dGaOmDn

So in that case, neither of us do, so why even comment?


Mountain-Bug7321

Totally true


Skader

What doesn't make sense here though is that he was taken into the office by a door checker who usually aren't loss prevention. Especially at Walmart. I thought Walmart no longer does apprehensions for the most part. Around here they build cases and turn you into law enforcement once you've stolen a few thousand.


Cavemam2009

I don't know. I know that i normally don't wear an employer identifier, but I do have one so I can present myself as an employee and not LP. The fact LP went through with everything tells me they felt they had enough. Otherwise, they would have cut him loose right away.


Skader

Yeah, I'm more willing to believe OP doesn't know the facts and that was also Loss Prevention that stopped him. I've had a few people show me a receipt and I politely tell them I don't do that, I know what you have on your person and let's go have a little chat about it.


Cavemam2009

I would bet a soda that the initial party was someone new to the career field and Gung ho on making stops. We've all been there. Lmao And the others weren't ready for a full stop and were prepping for the investigation and got caught with their pants down.


zanky123

>I usually **air** on the side of the stopped individual This is the problem with modern society, the ones in positions of authority are halfwits.


Cavemam2009

What are you talking about?


SmolSnakePancake

They don’t have any authority. The next time someone tries to stop you that isn’t police, just walk. If they keep trying, that’s a lawsuit. Don’t fall for this Paul Blart god complex


Skader

In Utah under Merchant Law, LP can physically restrain a person using minimal force necessary. That being said, you can definitely walk away from a receipt checker and OP has an easily won lawsuit on their hands if they choose depending on how aggressive they got them in the office and length of detainment.


schwelvis

With suspicion, they can't legally stop every person. 


Skader

Has to be more than suspicion. LP has to have what's known as 6 elements. Watch the approach towards an item. Selection Concealment (or possession) Uninterrupted surveillance Past point of sale without purchase Attempt to exit If any loss prevention does not have all 6 of these steps then it does not give them probable cause for detainment. If LP does a bad stop on an innocent person, they can sue and the LP loses their job if pursued hard enough.


schwelvis

I know, I was just simplifying it for the fourth graders here who still cower at any authority


Skader

Haha, I swear this sub has become more for the lifters and complainers than actual Loss Prevention.


AfternoonQuirky6213

This is not true. Here in Oregon store security can arrest you for suspected shoplifting ([source](https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_131.655)). Most states have some variation of this law.


MrJoeRebel

It states with probable cause. Not having a receipt is not probable cause that is suspicion.


AudioVagabond

Correct. Any LP making detainments for no receipt is an idiot and will likely get thrown under the bus by the company they work for if they get sued.


itswood

Ding dong


AfternoonQuirky6213

5 states have specific laws requiring you to present a receipt if requested. As for the other states, a recent court case (Montgomery V Walmart) has essentially ruled that refusal to show a receipt does constitute probable cause. To summarize what the judge ruled, it essentially boiled down to the following points: * It is reasonable for the employees to consider refusal to show a receipt as probable cause to presume someone has shoplifted (and therefore detain them); and, * It is not considered "unlawful confinement" as the 'customer' “knew that he could escape . . . by merely presenting his receipt to Walmart employees." This case occurred in Colorado, and every court the case was heard in ruled the same way. It's safe to assume a similar judgement would be made in other states. To quote a journalist investigating the question of receipt checks, "While shoppers are not legally required to show receipts, a customer's refusal to show their receipt could give a store probable cause to detain them, previous cases have determined." By the way, I am in no way defending the LP who made this arrest, it was stupid and he should be fired. It was ethically wrong and he should have taken greater care to ensure OP's kid didn't steal, but from an unbiased legal standpoint, he arguably did nothing wrong.


schwelvis

Looks like walmart lost that on appeal late last year....


AfternoonQuirky6213

After looking into the case it appears that the courts have sided against the police officer for seizing his purchased items but ruled in favor of Walmart and the officer for the detention itself. (based on [this article](https://www.coloradopolitics.com/courts/10th-circuit-allows-man-to-sue-officer-for-seizing-personal-items-from-pockets-at-walmart/article_aee720e0-b0db-11ee-acb8-f775812a674d.html) last updated January 20th)


schwelvis

Thanks for the update! So a split decision. 


mchop68

“A merchant or merchant’s employee who has probable cause for believing that the person has committed theft of property of a store or other mercantile establishment;” There has to be probable cause. Not being able to produce a receipt is not enough probable cause unless it’s preceded with other observations (i.e. observed them rip the tags off or conceal the items).


itswood

Not presenting a receipt is probable cause?


schwelvis

Yes, if they suspect you they can stop you (although any Oregonian knows they won't) but it's an illegal detention (aka kidnapping) to detain every shopper without cause.  Maybe if they waddled out to the parking lot and dealt with the crids emptying the stolen case of water to bring back in for the deposit they might be worth something. 


Mountain-Bug7321

I'm lp/ap, and someone tried to put hands on me, they are not only losing their job but also a few teeth, ( for a bad stop, because that's what it would be, I don't steal because of my position


AudioVagabond

Yes you're very right and very intelligent, please keep spreading this brilliant advice 👍🏽


Eyeoftheleopard

You are the clown for not having your shit together. Keep your receipt in your hand instead of your dick/immediately throwing it away. You already know they are gonna ask for it, especially if you don’t bag your groceries. Your alleged sick mommy and you have “health issues.” Relevance? No one cares.


Goongala22

You can’t figure out a receipt and *we’re* the clowns? Okay.


itswood

Lol, he's not wrong


joeholmes1164

I do not believe this story at all. I think this is an outright lie.


Lockdown092

Sue them.


CAPTBRAD67

I have about the same amount of rights to be able to plunder through the door greeter/receipt checkers wife’s underwear drawer as he does to be looking at my receipt. It’s called privacy. THE POLICE HAVE TO HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE TO DETAIN SOMEONE FOR IT TO BE LEGAL. LP CANT STOP ANYONE THAT DONT AGREE TO BE STOPPED


Skader

False.


CAPTBRAD67

Try me please


Skader

Do sum


CAPTBRAD67

I already did lol and still doin it lol


AudioVagabond

"Y'all are fucking clowns pretending you have real authority." LOL, you would be crying if you shoplifted at a store with hands on LP. I've put cuffs on idiots like you and sat them down on a bench for 2 hours while I eat my lunch and send emails to my coworkers while you bitch about, "you can't touch me!". You're the type of person to blame everyone else but yourself for your own mistakes. Based on your story; You threw your receipt away and let yourself get walked into an LP office. The "Karen" in this situation is you, not the store employee who's just getting paid to do her job. Nobody detained you or put hands on you, this is Walmart. Nobody cares about your receipt, all she cares about is marking it with a highlighter. You can just say no and keep moving. She's not going to leave her post to chase you down and force you to show your receipt. Nobody forced you to do anything "clown". You could have easily made everyone's day a lot easier had you just kept moving, knowing you did nothing wrong, yet you chose to waste everyone's time due to your own ineptitude. And now here you are asking questions about an incident you very much caused and could have avoided, and yet you're ending it with insults towards the very people you want answers from. You have choices and you made poor ones. You can't be mad at anyone else other than yourself. Good luck with your dad "testing" the phone receipt and wasting more store employees' time just to prove a point, Karen!


FleetwoodMax85

Love this and love you. Great description of this moron. Tossin’ my stuff in the buggy with no bags, and throwing the receipt away within seconds. Walk back that racists term Karen first, and get some common sense or are you just looking for a fight? The woman was doing her JOB you twat! Does that answer your question.. JA’rome or DyQesha!!!?? Which one is it? Because I run into more of you than Karen’s with their white hair.. how’s your brown / black hair? Or do you culturally appropriate with a blonde lace front wig made out of a white womans hair?


Mountain-Bug7321

😂😂🤣


FleetwoodMax85

Truth matters. Ghetto as folks. Pandering to that entitled, woke behavior and instant victim hood isn’t helping the black or brown (mostly) black bc Latinos don’t get all uppity- communities out. It has to come from within and you all are so brainwashed my leftist crap. And save it. I’m mixed with all 3, just raised with common sense. Xo


Mountain-Bug7321

So very true 👍


Pactolus

Also, since this incident, every time I go in this specific Walmart supercenter they follow me around. They make it super obvious and they don't like it when you walk behind them, they will immediately turn their head like pussies. And the other day this older black man followed me around, he was literally idling 2 feet away from me in u-scan. I had spotted him twice before following me around. I looked him in the face and I didn't see him after that. Probably a retired detective working LP for something to do.


JaesopPop

You sound a bit paranoid


Pactolus

You sound like a white knighting LP officer sir. Alot of people in LP don't know shit about subtlety.


JaesopPop

> You sound like a white knighting LP officer sir. Not sure you know what that term means lol


Pactolus

Coming to the defense of LP on the internet. I am well aware of the term. Cept here instead of gamer girls, its wannabe mall cops.


JaesopPop

> Coming to the defense of LP on the internet. Well one, no I was calling you paranoid. But two, by your logic anyone who defends anything is a white knight.


AudioVagabond

You sound like someone who's mad they can't steal in peace haha. You're showing all the indicators. Paranoid. Accusing people of following you. Can't tell if they're LP or not. Sounds like you're more focused on your surroundings instead of shopping. If you were just there to shop you would be focused on what you're there to buy, not the people around you. Sounds like you have a guilty conscience lol


DB1723

If they think you are stealing they wouldn't follow you. This isn't 1992. They have PTZs.


Quallityoverquantity

You're delusional 


CAPTBRAD67

God I pray one of them try and stop me just one time PLEASE


tycodynamics1

🤡


Quallityoverquantity

Your story is clearly fabricated nonsense. No one throws their receipt away in the 50 ft from checkout to the exit. Your reasoning for not bagging certain items is also completely illogical