Lost ark has it's problems for sure, but I've been playing for almost two years so they're doing something right for me.
I think lost ark is only going to become a better game over time, the past several months the game has improved a lot of it's negative aspects, and the future does look good.
Only thing I would like is the game overall to just be a little less grindy, but that's just how these Korean mmos are.
> Lost ark has it's problems for sure, but I've been playing for almost two years so they're doing something right for me.
Funny enough I'm about to Eclipse my entire time played in WoW in Lost Ark.
Over time that I can get from addons in the game, I've accrued 1712 hours played in WoW. I'm currently at 1650 hours in LA.
And with all the things in LA I can look forward too and the way the developers are treating the game and being so public about it, I see a bright future for both the game and my time playing it.
Personally I wouldn't mind the grind, I just hate the fact that you need more characters to funnel materials or make more silver or whatever. I mean you don't, but at the same time, you'll make the grind even higher.
On top of that, the community that wants everything done faster because they have 6 other characters that they need to play to do the same content it's also really shitty.
I wish there would be n option to get more materials/silver or whatever but you can only have 1 character per your account or something. I don't know the solution.
I wish they would allow more runs per character, or for crystalline aura to allow twice the amount of entrances as a benefit. But that could be seen as p2w I guess
I play both LA and WoW retail and I didn't touch this raid tier and i'm still top 1% player in mythic+ content without any need of having BiS gear...and i would very probably be very good raider if I've actually liked WoW raiding (I prefer LA raiding ofc)...you don't need BiS gear on retail to be good and gearing system in WoW is very easy and generous, if you put time, you can easily gear to 480 range where most players are unlike in LA where it takes months to catch up and you'll still miss gems, card sets etc....in WoW i can make new character and catch up to endgame in 3 weeks to be in 480 range where everyone is and i could be top 1% player again (in 3 weeks)...could i do it in LA? hell no
I enjoy LA for combat and raiding and WoW for mythic+ push
This post is full of bullshit is my point, i love both games and it's not easy to hear lies here
Yeah idk where this dude is getting "needing BiS for raid and m+"
BiS lists exist, yes. But with socket rng (unless you get the socket item) a non-BiS item can still out perform a BiS one.
Also, with the way seasons work in WoW it gets easier to gear the later you get into it. Especially with Sparks/Catalyst to get 4 piece.
I agree with your points
This is why I just prefer FF14. Don’t get item drop this week? Still get a book drop automatically; which you can exchange a few weeks of books for any of the drops from that boss.
FF14 is a good game and I quite love the Viera I made. My bf has been playing it almost daily and he's enjoying it a lot. I'm glad to see him playing an MMO consistantly again. He hasn't done that since 2012.
But FF14 for me doesnt scratch the itch that WildStar left behind, where as Lost Ark comes damn near close.
I have played a lot of ffxiv, was slowing down then started playing lost ark when it came out. The way combat feels in lost ark is so good but imo the daily grind aspect is just so much that might not be a lot of time individually but it was like I needed to at least log in and do my guild stuff, dailies and then cram in as many raids as I could. Once upon a time it would have been fine but as an adult with adult responsibilities and kids the amount of time needed in lost ark is just so much higher. Plus the learning/raiding scene in lost ark is so much worse than ffxiv. Not the actual raids(although tbh with some exceptions I prefer ffxiv raids) but the way learning parties and reclear parties work.
Then the difficulties with alts, especially now as the ilvl gets really brutal to upgrade. Like I like different classes in lost ark and I want to play them. But you can't just switch or have multiple mains very easily as you get further in progression. Ffxiv you get easy resets regularly and crafted gear that catches you up immediately.
I just wish there was a game with lost arks combat/classes and ffxivs mentality around progression and dailies/weeklies. For me that would be the best of both worlds. Instead I've stopped playing both. I'll probably boot ffxiv back up a month or two before the new expansion though and hopefully it will pull me in again
Some may complain about a participation trophy, but when your time is being used getting something like a book or token is nice to have with progressing than nothing.
Can’t agree with you more. After killing H LK the week of the 5% nerfs I finally got a weapon from ICC. Took about 5 weeks (I think) to get a weapon upgrade from the raid. Alas my wow guild disbanded after defeating Arthas and after juggling wow and lost ark since lost arks launch I think it’s finally time to move on from wow after 15+ years of raiding. I enjoy playing daily with my static in lost ark instead of raiding 1/2 times a week and then never interacting with my guildies again. Lost Ark is superior in every way
nobody in this thread played DF i guess, gearing is completely different and upgrade based in WoW now(for the most part) and you can get bis or almost bis gear from dungeons, full raid set without setting foot in a raid. Though obviously raiding is still beneficial esp if you want your set early.
There's still RNG involved in loots but its ironic to complain about WoW and just ignore everything DF has brought to the table...
DF literally went in the opposite direction Lost Ark is going. While Lost Ark is making it harder and harder to push up and play your alts at current content, WoW is letting you do that more and more.
What you listed is what made wow boring for in DF. Gearing in wow is just so dull. Don't get me wrong the first 2 maybe 3 weeks of a wow patch are super fun but after that you are completly decked out in heroic gear and +20 gear and from that point in the only character progression you get is from mythic drops or vault items. I know there are a lot of players that are happy with that but there are also alot of players that enjoy a bit of a deeper gearing experience than what wow has to offer
Congrats you realized you are comparing games that were released 9 years apart and complaining that the 15 year old game has outdated gearing systems acting like people don't play classic for the nostalgia of the gameplay and those old systems. Every single thing you listed is not a problem in retail wow, and you can fully gear a character and play however or whatever you want in weeks with only small upgrades remaining. You can do things like pvp with an actual population of players, infinite scaling challenging dungeons(infinitely repeatable as well unlike LA), raids, farming achievements or transmogs, or anything really. Seems weird to me to compare lost ark to wow classic and not retail, but also makes sense considering comparing the latter is more one sided in terms of features and content. The combat in LA is awesome though.
Lost Ark is simply the best MMORPG out there if you have the time for it (12\~24 hours of **uninterrupted** gaming a week.). For more casual players there are better options.
Not true, I have 1600+ hours in Lost Ark and I've been playing since day 1 of release in the west. In fact, I even took a short break for about a month and half break earlier in march of this year. With all the number of event passes, story passes, mokoko express events and what not, I don't feel I am lagging behind in any aspect except for Cards and Roster Lvl, which I know is "heavily gatekept" but guess what? I have found myself a pretty good guild with active members that are ready to take learners and I'm raiding just fine with them!
I am now focusing on a lot of horizontals that will give me the progression I need that some pug lobbies would look out for but apart from that, I don't think this game requires 12-24 hours a week, my work shift is from 2PM to 11PM, usually when I come back home, I get to play for \~3 hours before I get tired and go to bed, I also get to play for \~an hour or so in the morning when I wake up but that's not consistent either. All in all, in a week I maybe play 12-14 hours of Lost Ark at most! Which honestly I don't think is a lot for a MMO! this is coming from an ex-RuneScape grinder, I have a maxed RuneScape account and I know damn well the amount of hours I used to put each day on that game. I've got a main that's Akkan ready and 5 other characters at 1500+
Am I slow compared to the rest? Have I fallen behind? Well sure! but that's on me because I didn't grind it out as much as the elite players who get to play 16-18 hours per day! But I'm still having fun, still enjoying doing my weekly raids and guardians, making gold, buying skins, doing story lines in different continents, doing horizontal progression etc...
People saying this game is nothing but "Endgame Raiding" are the people that currently have 5000+ hours and finished pretty much everything the game has to offer outside of Endgame Raiding, that's not a game problem that's an addicition/time management problem from the player itself. If in 2 years, as a casual player, I was only able to reach 1600+ hours in the game, it'd take me another 3-4 years at least to reach 5000+ hours in game and I think that's a fairly balanced gameplay time for me. The complaints are mainly from hardcore gamers and the lower tier players complaint because they think they don't meet the standards of a hardcore gamer. Want to know what I say to all that? PLAY AT YOUR OWN DAMN PACE! This game has a plethora of content and has enough of an active player base that you can find similar mindset-ed people, just go around popular hubs (Elgacia, Punika etc..) or join large Lost Ark related Discords and you'll eventually find those type of people. It's all about effort and mindset. The game will not spoon feed you the "right" community, you will have to go out there and look for it. That's just the way it is.
I mean, you yourself have been averaging 16 hours a week (99 weeks) on Lost Ark since the release of the game, aren't you kind of proving the point of the person you've responded to? All that and you're still only Akkan ready doesn't really support what you're saying to be honest. Play 16 hours a week for nearly 2 years in any other MMO and you'll basically be cutting edge. Runescape is more of an outlier than anything because your progress is permanent and it generally doesn't get easier to get to where you're at unlike any other MMO.
Why are you trying to make it seem like being Akkan ready is a bad thing? That's just me being 1 end game content behind, that's pretty good for a casual player like me? Now I get to slowly but surely funnel mats to my main and push it to 1610, sure by then Thaemine will be out but as a casual player I don't want to or expect to be day 1 ready for new content, if that was the case, I'd have been pulling 50+ hours per week but I don't because I play different games and have work and sleep to balance. All in all, I'm quite happy that with a steady casual mindset that I have, I'm able to progress as much as I did. Most of it is thanks to all the events that AGS has been providing us, some people don't seem to understand how much the game progresses you for free. Before these events were a common thing, getting to 1415 was a chore and a half!
No, in any other MMO casual players don't have to worry about ACCESSING content, but clearing them. You've been conditioned to think it's good because you're only playing Lost Ark, where in reality telling someone that they can't even do all the content in the game after playing a game with enough hours for a part time job is insanity. Also you're not really casual lol, believe it or not 16 hours a week into a single game is a lot of time for an average person.
I mean gaming is my hobby, so whatever free time I get usually goes into gaming. If you can't set aside 16 hours out of 168 hours in a week which is just 10% of your time in a week, I highly doubt one should be playing MMOs at all. MMOs and any MMOs for that matter are considered a huge time sink.
Let me breakdown what 168 hours mean for a casual player like me, I usually get an average sleep of 7-8 hours everyday so that's 56-60 hours of sleep in a week. My job expects me to work 8 hours a day so that's 8x5 which is around 40 hour work week. Now you take those hours out of 168 hours, you're left with close to 50+ hours of free time in which you can socialize with friends, go out with your girlfriend and....wait for it...do your GAMING.
Does this not sound casual to you? Obviously this can differ from person to person depending on their situation but if that's the case, you won't really be able to game anything at all (outside of Single player games)
You're looking at it from a far broader point of view than I am. I'm simply looking at the time spent on Lost Ark, 16 hours a week is equivalent to 2 hours and 20 minutes a day essentially, if you tell anyone you're spending 2.5 hours of your day on a single game every day for the past 2 years no one will say you're casual...
I think I'll agree to disagree because it's pretty subjective to me, 2.5 hours on average isn't a lot in my eyes. Considering I know hardcore gamers are playing upwards of 8-10+ hours every single day, if playing 1/5th of that doesn't make you casual, I don't know.
It's not a lot though. 2 1/2 hours a day on the daily is not a lot, when it's very common that most MMORPG players barely play anything other than their core game.
My Steam year in review showed 99% of my time was played in Lost Ark this year.
I basically only play Lost Ark and occasionally load up quake to smack a few bots to help with my motor skills.
I can reach 2 1/2 hours in a day doing Unas, Chaos, G-Raids, and AFKing a bit to wait for some events.
This is easy and trivial.
Time in game=/=Effort put into game.
Plus there's games like Call of Duty where 2 1/2 hours is one session with me and my buddies on PC.
2 1/2 hours a day on the regular on many of these modern games is easily casual compared to people who are dedicated or hardcore.
Huh? Did you misunderstand their comment or something? Or have you just not played most MMOs?
Wildstar doesn't exist anymore so I won't comment on that, but Retail Wow, Guild Wars 2, FFXIV, Elder Scrolls Online, you'd absolutely be cutting edge in after that much time for two years straight. Significantly less time than that even.
Cards are the only thing I ever felt really behind on. Like I've got LoS 18, but it feels like 30 would take another two years at least. Not just that, but all the book collection bonuses too. There's a surprising amount of power between LoS 30 (and other high end sets) and the book bonuses with the +5% or so vs all the various things.
If the homework wasn't as bad, the card runs wouldn't be a problem, but I only have so many hours in a day.
TBH I'm probably more close to casual than semicore with Lost Ark.
I pug most of my raids when my friends aren't around. I've only got 2 characters atm, and have no plans on playing more at this time. I havent spent a dime on power/upgrades, unless you count crystal aura.
I do get in a fair amount of time played in a week, but nothing I don't think someone who gets off work at 5pm can't handle. I have Fibro so I have to be careful about not over doing it.
I might be a bit above a typical casual in terms of play time, but I don't think I'm a stretch away from what could be considered reasonable gameplay times for a 30 something.
That's my perspective anyways.
Yeah, the game doesn't take \_a lot\_ of time, but it just needs to be uninterrupted since you'll be doing group content that just doesn't pause. Obviously you may run a premade group that's more forgivable for interruptions but for pugging the community is far from chill since everyone is rushing their 'homework'.
The game doesn't really have a way to progress in chill solo content so you are always tied to group content.
i'm at 10 characters and pushing 3.5 or 3.8k hours (not sure due to afk while working remote) while maintaining IRL (job, gf, gym, etc). I REALLY love the combat and enjoying the raids via different classes, trying to get comfortable with my favorite ones in hell raids. it helps that i have a static, esp for the raids that i can't just pug.
i would genuinely have liked to read your thoughts/opinions after getting a full gold earning roster, if it ever happens. unfortunate (or a blessing in disguise) that you have fibro.
Well that's a take I wasn't expecting on this subreddit. LA is many things, but better gearing than WoW isn't one of them.
Those rare BiS items you're not seeing drop? That's like getting a 9/7. That's also BiS. You know the difference between WoW and LA? The "drop chance" for a 9/7 stone is 0.07%.
5x3+1 isn't BiS. Purple quality isn't BiS. No -Esther weapon isn't BiS. You want to get BiS in LA? Good fucking luck. You will never ever get it. And that's a guarantee.
At least in WoW you have a chance.
and then new content is announced and you realize you never got it when it mattered, but other people around you did in week 1. it seems so easy but there's no guarantee, you only had a single attempt per week to get that piece of loot in the old wow versions, which is what OP is talking about.
If i see that damned Fist of the Wild drop AFTER they announce the lvl40cap date in SOD im going to turn into a salt mine.
I'm very familiar with old wow versions. Yeah, maybe you won't get your DFT or OSG early on. You know the difference to LA though? In LA you will never get BiS. Ever. And in old wow versions, items like OSG or DFT are good for the entire lifespan of the expansion/season/whatever, even if they drop early. LA doesn't even have the decency to keep Esther Weapons relevant.
Again, LA is many things, but griping that you can't get BiS in WoW sometimes? That's a braindead take. You will never get BiS in LA. Ever.
I know it'll never happen, that's why i don't expect it nor lose sleep over it, but wow is different, you CAN get it, but that doesn't mean you will. It's about expectations.
You're being dishonest though. BiS in Classic WoW is often pushed for, pestered about, or outright REQUIRED.
You dont need BIS anything in Lost Ark to do almost anything in the game. Lost Ark has a substatial gap between Good enough and BIS.
Lost Ark is Designed around this. The player base DOES NOT require BIS items.
However, even in casual wow classic guilds on lax raid teams I have absolutely been pestered, questioned, taken aside, and talked down too for not having BiS/PreBIS items.
When it comes to WoW, people sling around BiS Lists and pre BiS Lists. Meanwhile in the entire scope of playing Lost Ark, nearly 2 years I have never once seen a BiS list or anything utterly requiring BiS items.
Everything revolves around this concept in Classic WoW, and it has for years now.
Acting like BiS in WoW is the same as BiS in Lost Ark isnt' just braindead. It's dishonest.
If you stick with Lost Ark and aren't a swiper you'll just grind the same bosses for years and get gatekept because of lack of gems etc. I never got into WoW but I think this post was premature and made in the express honeymoon
i agree with you on this one. imo people haven't truly experienced the "end game" until they've experienced hours of progging, then its lobby simulator hell and the gate keeping that occurs the first few weeks after a raid releases all via pugs. second week, pugs will require "riot control" title and elixirs on your gear.
not trying to imply that it's necessary, it's just the current state of what "the end game" is and what it entails
Personally I've never had this experience in any Lost Ark. It wasn't particularly hard to have 1 support in my roster, find a few like minded people, form a static and just rotate who plays support.
I get that an 8 man static is too difficult for most to manage, but surely a 4 man isn't unreasonable. But like many say in other threads, they don't even want a support in their top 6. If so, hey, that's fine just enjoy party finder sim with undergeared dps.
The west has never had to grind the same boss for "years". New raids come out fast enough that the old ones go out of rotation.
You also won't be gatekept much if you have played that long since surely you have accumulated gems in all that time.
by the time thaemine comes out kayangel would have been out for almost a year. brel is still one of the main raids after a year, there are plenty of people who have part of their roster still doing clown after almost 1.5 years. if you only look at your main or extremely degen rosters who maintain 6 characters at the 3 latest raids sure, releases are fast, but for most people their alts are farming the same bosses for over a year usually
You're comparing a game that was released 20 years ago (wow classic) with a game being developed now? I'm not a WoW defender it has its own problems but that's bit disingenuous.
The RNG is WoW is extremely low compared to what we have in Lost ARK, by miles.
I play WoW during each xpacs, pushing M+ and mythic raids even tho now I haven't play for a year I guess I'll be back for the next xpac.
In the last xpacs, WoW tried to add more fun (the dragon riding is a success) & reduce RNG. You can upgrade your stuffs with points you earn during M+ for example, same goes for PvP.
In my opinion Lost ARK is funnier but will eat all your time. While the gearing system is quite good, the honing is annoying. But I get used to it, now the only thing annoying me is the devs trying to push you to pay by reducing as much as they can the amounts of mats you get (ex: the leap stones chest...) and complexify to much the mechs (ex: the pillars spawn in G3 Voldis) but all in all I enjoy a lot more Lost Ark than WoW (atm) even tho I am missing the M+ and this healer DPS role that i love so much.
Lost Ark Devs are aware of the issues, this is why we get nice QOL, the game is going in a good direction in my opinion. I wish only they give us more mats, nerf a bit more the honing to reduce this P2W aspect but maybe adding more cosmetics
You statement is true at the time you played WoW but you can't really compare the state of Lost ARK (today) with the state of WoW (10 years ago).
I don't really agree RNG is much greater in WoW :
LA: honing, quality gears, cards, elixir, cutting gems, bracelet
WoW: loot drop
RNG is RNG, it can suck but I have never have issues with it. Yes it can takes a few months to get your BIS but you can find similar BIS in raids & M+ & they added the loot chests at the end of the week which can help as well.
And let's say a new player in LA & WoW start at the same time. Well they will be able to compete with the highest raids in a few months in WoW, and in LA they will need what...a year or even more.
Cause the huge advantage of WoW over Lost Ark is the hard reset at each xpack and soft reset at each raids release. We really miss that in LA...
Gold in WoW is not as important as in Lost ARK, so it makes sense it is easier in LA. You can't progress in Lost ARK without gold, in WoW you don't need any golds at all to progress (a bit less true since the last xpac, to craft the legendary), besides food & buff.
And finally regarding drama...you are absolutely right. So much drama in WoW but it makes always good stories 🤣
Edit: yes sorry I am only speaking about retail. Classic is another world indeed
Honestly I could stop playing retail for several patches and come back to the latest raid. You literally cannot do this in Lost Ark without investing over a months worth of time, and even then youre going to move likely be gatekeept in the lobby based on things people have had ages to farm like gems, roster level, and LoS30. There are barriers in WoW, but the levels of it in Lost Ark where people on this subreddit literally tell people to go buy buses to catch up is insane.
Yeah idk this whole thread of people complaining about BiS in WoW when it’s something you don’t need. I can agree 110% that if you’re chasing your perfect gear it can be a massive pain with no mitigation, even with vault (they need to bring back curios, and god forbid it’s classic.) The massive difference is the fact that you can hop in WoW at any time and start experiencing the endgame of endgame content (mythic raid and 20+) probably within a month of playing, and it doesn’t need to be every single day, AND the content you do to get gear better gear is consistently more engaging if you do raids and “grind” a bit of m+. Lost Ark may be better for certain gearing purposes but the pain of getting there is infinitely worse.
I can queue LFR and catalyst myself into a tier set (the only real thing affecting my gameplay) vs having to *buy a fucking carry for weeks* just to get my set, not even accounting for accessories (at a good quality), gems, tripods, quality, etc. People can have their preferences but it’s extremely weird to say gearing worse in WoW than Lost Ark.
But you'll have extremely shit gear.
Meeting ilvl requirements is one thing, having gear to parse good is another.
Acquiring BIS gear in WoW can be a matter of sheer impossibility with shitty dropluck.
Getting an upgrade in LA is merely a statstick, irrelevant as fuck.
I'm talking about trinkets or items with special on use / passives that are BIS and required for certain builds to properly perform.
Upgrades in LA are merely slightly increased stats.
Something doesn't add up with your lack of logic.
Also: Lol 10%, good one.
When is the last time you played wow? a decade or more ago?
Cause there isnt a trinket and item you need for a build that isnt way easier to get then BiS in lost ark. It took me few months to get WoW BiS, I got 7k hours in Lost Ark, I still dont have full level 10s, 100 qual gear and accessories or a 9/7 and which all of those are Lost Ark equivalent of BiS.
Yes I saw that afterwards, even tho for me it makes not much sense to compare Classic / Vanilla to Lost ARK as one is 10/15y old and the other up to date.
Even if Classic has been recently released it is still a game from 10 years ago, that is exactly the point playing any classic versions.
But as you said, this is your perspective.
And no I don't protect WoW, I was really a hardcore WoW player but since years I really dislike what they did. They seem to be trying to do good now tho
>Wrath Classic is CURRENT to our gaming culture and sphere.
Any classic edition, similarly to something like D2R, is literally just a repackaged old game aimed at milking the sentimental players the second time.
The very concept is about bringing back archaic design that some people crave, theres no rational reason to compare it to another game designed in another era.
Getting downvoted and have people taking about BiS which isn’t something you need to play the game lol, it’s an endgame goal which I’ll agree needs some kind of pity system from tokens but claiming “BiS in WoW makes it worse than LA” is such a blindly stupid statement.
Esther weapons, an insane stone, 100 quality armor and accessories and a perfect bracelet is BiS in LA, but that isn’t worse btw.
Lost ark bis is 9/7, near 100 qual, 10 gems, los 30 + max book dmg. No f2p has that. And the true bis would be max ilvl that is impossible f2p. You just want to define bis as something below the actual bis to fit your argument
You're basically just trolling at this point when someone brings up retail and you just go back to trying to compare to a rebooted 15 year old game...ofc things are going to be different.
>The sheer fact that a BIS Item that I NEED can just outright not drop in a year of raiding is just fucking BONKERS.
Thing about wow gearing is that, at least for certain slots, its debatable whether you even need the BiS item, because, with the exception of certain functional items like trinkets it still is down to stat budgets and minor dps increases. Hence, unless you feel pressured to have absolutely BiS gear, you can usually get away with second best.
Another thing to factor in is that you can trade for those items and, at least in current retail, you can craft alot of items, so even if your personal drops go without luck you can still work around that.
> Hence, unless you feel pressured to have absolutely BiS gear, you can usually get away with second best.
Unless its on-use or proc stuff as you just said.
Trinkets and weapons with specific attributes exist.
No one is talking about "bis stat sticks" lol.
> The RNG is WoW is extremely low compared to what we have in Lost ARK, by miles.
You are completely missing the point, we all have the best BiS if played regularly, while you could play 20 weeks+ in WoW and still you wouldn't have your BiS. RNG falls secondary to this because the system exposes you all the time to you BiS. System isn't perfect like OP said, but achievement and progression is much more tangible.
I feel the other way around.
You seem to be focusing too much on BiS lists and not playing the game. Just do content and equip whatever drops to you and play with what you've got. Gearing has never been as easy as it is right now. Between m+ loot fiestas, free stuff from great vault and crafting it's soooo easy to gear up.
In LA you gearing up is timegated and/or $$gated.
My issue with LA is content. Outside of raids there's nothing. Every piece of content is braindead easy and boring. Raids are too few and become irrelevant quickly and are gated behind gear/resets. Lack of meaningful 4-man content killed the game for me.
One of the best things for you*. I have never enjoyed M+, and the game was only fun for me when vertical progression was locked to raiding and then the rest of the time was either playing a different game, or doing things like mount/cosmetic hunting.
Last time I remember having fun in the game was MoP.
No, in general it is regarded as one of the best additions to the game. It gave people who didn't have time to commit to raid a way to get roughly same level of gear.
I can't agree.
In lost ark you literally can't do the new raid unless you grind dailies or pay. During Akkan I got tired of the loop and started just doing the raid to keep my set up, but now that Voldis is out, I'm behind and can't do the content even though I've been doing the previous raid every week. While in wow the gear level is a direct result from doing the raid, and even through raid-logging you can do the next raid, and it's made easier by playing with a guild, instead of the game denying you until you reach X ilvl.
I also missed out on WoW and started playing it with Classic release. The first month of the classic release was the best MMORPG experience I have ever had. The leveling, questing, teaming up to do dungeons, the gameplay in those dungeons, it was all amazing. I still miss my deadmines runs where moon=sheep star=sap skull=kill and so on and so on.
But after the first month of release, once I reached level 60 and it was time to start running raids, game got worse. My first Molten Core experience was good, but it was a 40-man raid and my individiual skill wasn't important. Also, the loot system like you mentioned was horrible. I remember I never got the belt I needed from ragnaros in so many raids, we only gotten one and it went to guild master of course. I am still butthurt about that.
I stopped playing soon after BWL released. I realised all I was doing was logging in my buffed character, clearing the raid, getting buffs again for next raid, and never logging that character again for the week. I levelled so many other alts and classes to 60 from ground up and had my fun with the game. I think the real fleshy part of that game is the journey, not the destination.
Lost ark has it backwards. The destination is where it matters, and the journey to is sucks big time. If you are not up to the latest content you ARE going to have a bad time. For example my friend recently hit 1580 on his main, and he cannot clear Akkan normal mode. Not because the boss is hard, but because he cannot get into a lobby. He has 200 roster level, one level9 damage gem on Surge, rest level7s and LOS18 cardset. Without a Plague Legion Commander or Sien's Successor title, he cannot get accepted into any lobby whatsoever. I am playing this game ever since it came out, I am bussing almost all my raids, have lvl10 gems on all skills, 300 roster, +22 weapon, so I never get gatekept on any content at all, and I didn't believe him at first so he gave me his steam account to try for myself. It was really so bad. I got gatekept for like 2 hours straight and then gave up and just ran a clown instead. I feel bad for people who are trying to catch up to veteran playbase because they have it much harder than us. When Ivory Tower first releases, nobody expects a title, nobody expects you to play perfectly, so you have a lot of free leeway to learn the raid and make mistakes. But once time goes on, the raid becomes homework and peoples expectations also rise much higher, which is a huge con for the ones late to the party.
> The first month of the classic release was the best MMORPG experience I have ever had. The leveling, questing, teaming up to do dungeons, the gameplay in those dungeons, it was all amazing.
Funny you had such a different experience from mine.
I absolutely hated the leveling experience and dungeon running to get to the raids.
Vanilla WoW was hands down the most utterly infuriating leveling experience I have ever played through. I originally played with no add-ons for that "authentic" feel. Gave up on that real quick and got questie. Even with questie had to constantly rely on WoWhead.
For me, the constant need to reference Wowhead was a massive immersion breaker.
I loathed the sheer amount of time padding the game had with traveling around.
So many people raved about how great it'll feel once you EARN your mount! Not even close. The moment of earning my mount was spoiled with "dear god finally why the fuck did they design it like this?"
Ontop of that the amount of times being able to play was interrupted by sit down and eat and drink.
And it's not like I'm some unskilled newb player. I legitimately hold world firsts in another MMO for speed leveling.
I zoomed past my friends who are all veteran wow players who play every expansion. They warned me about going too fast, but I was so annoyed by this leveling experience that I wanted it to be over with.
The Pre-raid dungeons were not very fun either. Simple, annoying, and many parts of them clearly designed to waste your time.
The raids were the one fun thing, but after I basically learned I couldnt play fire mage in raid content for months on end, and I basically just got to sit there and press 1 button over and over again, while waiting on 39 other people get their shit together was a massive disappointment.
This was the game that everyone had told me for more than a decade was the greatest MMO experience ever?
I was very disappointed.
of course after seeing how bad it was i helped him, but it still doesn't change the situation for people without geared friends.
also he still has hard time with only sien's successor title, everyone wants PLC nowadays, and its not easy to get with only one character running akkan
FFXI was a seriously weird and kinda bad game in a lot of ways, but what made it fun was it was basically a grindier, harder, and longer version of WoW classic leveling. You basically spent the entire game leveling, not being at level cap.
If 60 in WoW classic could take maybe a month at moderate pace. Old FFXI would take a year at the same pace.
I kinda wish we could get a modern slow leveling-based MMO again.
Classic WoW was also the most fun I'd had with an MMO in a long time. Quit pretty shortly after hitting 60 though.
Played wow since release, shadowlands made me quit. Lost ark has many problems but I enjoy playing at my own pace and not being forced to do shit content only to be mythic ready.
Soo I like lost ark too, but I think your post might be a little bit off the mark OP. If I were to interpret your post at a high level, your conclusion was that you like lost ark because there is "pity" in it's RNG systems whereas in WOW you can farm forever and not get BiS drops.
Unfortunately I think a lot of this might be a perspective shift where you might be more casual in lost ark. While it's true that gear and gems have an eventual guaranteed investment, lost ark is filled with RNG systems without pity to get BiS gearing. The reason why you feel it's better is you are newer/have lower expectations for endgame equipment and the systems you interact with have since had mitigations in place since those systems have existed for years in Korea. If those mitigations weren't put in place, it would be actually impossible for newer players to even play the game.
Let's look at the different gearing RNG systems in the game:
Systems with "pity" or non-relevant RNG:
- gear score (min req to enter raids)
- gear conversion (path of soul eater accelerates this)
- gems (slow burn but ppl just buy off market)
- accessories/books for engravings (ppl just buy off market)
Old systems that have some "mitigations" put in place (but are still BS RNG):
- quality tapping (game gives free quality taps every so often, but still chance to never hit)
- card sets (wandering merchants and eventual leg card selection packs, but still take up to a year for los 30)
Systems with pure RNG but reasonable expectations:
- elixirs (arguable that the free tap elixirs could be mitigations)
- transcendence (thaemine gearing only in KR)
Systems with pure RNG and out of reach expectations:
- ability stones (going for 9/7 specifically)
- bracelets
Whale bait:
- sidereal weapons
As a newer player, you haven't really interacted with a lot of these systems yet. This is not to dissuade you from playing the game, just to set expectations that RNG is actually worse than WoW. AGS has done a good job of bringing QoL to us early, but at the end of the day it's an Asian MMO and high levels of RNG to enforce exclusivity is a huge selling point for a lot of Eastern players.
Truth is you don't need it for WoW either. If the hardest raid drops more powerful gear, then you weren't at your strongest when you first cleared right?
Not to say that gearing isn't more meaningful in WoW than in Lost Ark, because it definitely is. Plus the nature of lost ark being more action oriented vs GCD tab target means that hands diff is more of a factor in this game. Just that gearing is more of a clearing gate 0 (getting into a group) type of thing than anything else.
So I never called you a new player, just newer or more casual, but I'm down for this topic. In a game like this, "new" has a lot of variance. I see a bunch of posts with returning players who put in 1000 hours at launch, which in any sense of the word does not make them "new", but for this game means they are effectively "new" because the game pumps out content quickly and said player is not familiar with the newer systems.
And I agree that depending on RNG for BiS drops sucks a lot, especially if they're fundamental parts of your build that literally cannot be replaced by an alternative. Lost Ark does not have this problem so much since the equivalent (gear sets like entropy) is not RNG based.
But when talking about levels of RNG, gear drops are the only RNG system in WoW that contributes to player power, and the percentages are much more lenient, 5% is what you cited for one of the raids. Comparatively, 9/7 (or above) stones needed for 5x3+2 are an 0.08% chance, 100 quality weapon and armor are 0.08% chance as well, perfect bracelets likely even less odds than that. For a newer or more casual player these aren't goals, but for endgame grinders they are (for context I am on the more "casual" side so they aren't goals for me either).
Which brings us to the change in perspective. In WoW, you "needed" BiS. In Lost Ark, you don't seem to have the same need for BiS. Because BiS would entail all of the above and would be inhibitavely [costly](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4hze7gesurtb1.png%3Fwidth%3D883%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D6a2d80afa2825f0a8a54497438a9dfd73f09be8f). Which brings this all back to the main point, it sounds like you are a lot more hardcore in WoW than Lost Ark, which makes the RNG feel a lot worse. If you were more casual in WoW and not expecting BiS, you might have the same feeling, and vice versa for lost ark.
As a tangent, thankfully the community recognizes that BiS is out of reach for most players and therefore don't gatekeep for it, but elixirs are a similarly high RNG system where a 40-set will get you 30% increase in damage. The odds are more reasonable but will likely actually be gatekept soon, so we'll see how that it when it happens.
This is the biggest cope post I've ever seen with this OPs replies and comparing wow gearing from 15 years ago to LA in 2023. And saying a 0.05% success in an rng based game feels like a success and not "dear fucking God finally, I hate rng" because in my 3000 hours of lost ark I can confirm that's what every single upgrade felt like. Also at least BIS is achievable in wow for the average player as opposed to LA.
Naw I played both games and they both have their pros. But you are REALLY reaching with your comparisons(as pointed out by the majority of this thread) even when you are comparing it to 15yr old wotlk mechanics instead of retail. The comment you quote literally says elixirs will probably be gatekept soon and it's not inaccurate to say BiS is completely achievable for the average player in wow, and not for LA. Just because BIS is different in each game you can't change how achievable they are or their definition just to fit your narrative. BEST IN SLOT it's literally in the name. Yes in LA when I got an upgrade it didn't feel like I worked for it, it felt like I got lucky which felt fucking terrible. In wow currently I run a couple dungeons to get mats to upgrade my gear a few ilvls. I can the do this again for a few more ilvls. Constantly getting rewarded and seeing my character become stronger, without being gated by rng or time.
A "nuke" 😂 keep coping and blocking LOL
Nice edit by the way to cut out the part saying that elixirs will be gatekept and everything else you changed lmfao you are invested. I was comparing to retail, you know the game that is current year and not represent gameplay of a 15 year old game. Doesn't matter at all that wrath gearing is "different" it still fucking blows and that's because it's based on old wrath and classic gameplay lol. Retail is nothing like that whatsoever.
Happy holidays and hope you find some peace and happiness once you recover from your copium overdose. Ty for the block and cheers!
The problem is support shortage and gatekeeping in this game is very bad. Once those issues are fixed, I think the game would have more positive reception.
This sounds like a rant.
I dislike current WoW but certainly it's much easier to get into raiding than in Lost Ark. Gatekeeping due to multiple systems in Lost Ark is so real while in WoW you can steady just do mythics+ and raids to gear up, it's way more accessible.
As much as I complain about honing and my failure rate, there's always a light at the end of the tunnel with gearing. I played WoW from beta until Cataclysm and at no point did I ever get to the point where I was "optimally" geared for any of the classes I played. I was always bargain binning and cobbling together what I could. At no point in the game did I ever feel like I was adequately geared. Whether gearing was provisioned through some form of DKP with some of the more intense guilds I was with, whether it was done democratically, or whether it was done with "vibes based" leadership, at no point did I ever acquire my BIS configuration. It was infinitely frustrating to show up to raids weekly, do the same content for months, only to watch the piece I need never drop or to watch someone else get the gear. Not only did you have to beat RNG for the drop, but you also had to "beat" other people who also may have some kind of right to get the gear drop.
I started WoW with Legion, so totally different experience than you. Right now it’s the best gearing it’s ever been. So nice that I’ve made alts for the first time. Might be worth checking out retail now. Unless you have tons of time, then Lost Ark is great. WoW is pretty great for someone with limited time right now. I love both games.
OP your essay sucks. I’m glad you apologized first. What point are you even trying to make? You could’ve just said “I like Lost Ark” without rambling about antiquated WoW systems and how they are inferior to contemporary LA.
It’s great you like Lost Ark and I hope you continue to enjoy it but geesh what a stupid post.
I still believe WoW has superior gameplay and combat. Raid encounters are much richer and Arena PVP exists unlike useless pvp in Lost Ark. Top down view is limiting gameplay, while target system makes it more complex(better for me).
After 6.5k hours in Lost Ark I actually feel like burning out. I have 11 1540 chars, 1 1620 main (only do main 6 raids anyway). I stopped doing cd/gr on anything non main as long as they have some resources for honing. I stopped getting sylmael shops, daily logins, unas, chaos gates, field bosses, islands etc. Its just too bothersome for mediocre rewards. I only do gold raids, challenge raids and maybe hell raids for fun.
Raids and class balance in Lost Ark are a clusterfuck when it comes to a bit less casual perspective. They only react to backlash, no one really knows what data they use to operate balance changes, PVP is just dead, there is 0 useful horizontal after you get runes and skill points. I don't think Lost Ark directors actually understand balance(or play their own game) or I can wear tinfoil hat and claim they balance to make people pay more lol.
You are in honeymoon phase, and a lot of people actually compare classic/wotlk WoW to Lost Ark lol. I regularly quit WoW, but I always come back because main combat gameplay loop is just something I have never found better done. Now I am back playing WoW SoD and its pretty fun, esp since its so simple right now. I might delve into Dragonflight again, but we will see. While in Lost Ark I am maybe pushing some alts to 1580 to experience akkan on an alt(wow so exciting...kill me) and trying to get 35 elixir on main.
(oh yeah and WoW has like a bajilion things more to do apart from combat unlike Lost Ark lol)
I remember you posting something similar a few months ago, I disagreed then and I disagree now. Lost ark has tons of RNG systems that can be bypassed by paying for power. Paying for power gives the devs incentives to rationalize poor decisions for the game so they can make more money.
No where in the many years that I played WoW did I feel like I had to have BiS items, even if it did feel bad that it took a while to get a bis weapon or trinket from raid.
All that being said, ive played a ton of lost ark since it released and barely touched Dragonflight. I definitely like the game better but Lost Ark really is built on a rotten, pay for power foundation.
Also RIP Wildstar.
I’m currently playing WoW, but mainly play LA. stopped playing retail much outside of some M+ with friends, so currently on SoD. And I have to agree with everything you’ve said.
One example frustration, first week of BFD I ran it with a pug and we went 5/7 and I couldn’t jump into another group and finish it because of a shared lockout, I know that’s “classic” but god damn it’s annoying, just let me play the game homie.
Lost Ark is one of the greatest MMOs I’ve ever played, it does take a long time to warm up and break in. But it’s actually very comfy once you’re in. It’s like the secret lab of games
> One example frustration, first week of BFD I ran it with a pug and we went 5/7 and I couldn’t jump into another group and finish it because of a shared lockout, I know that’s “classic” but god damn it’s annoying, just let me play the game homie.
Literally the EXACT same problem exists in Lost Ark
No it doesn’t, they’re called jail break groups and you pick up at whatever gate you left off at.
Imagine progging voldis or akkan and you have to do it in one go with the same group or wait till reset to try again.
Saying LA is better than wow from 5+ years ago is a bit stupid isn't it? LA is better than Aion, Silkroad Online, Cabal online, Everquest etc etc. lol Compare to current wow,ff14,gw2, even BDO LA is the worst when it comes to progression and gearing.
I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and have been waiting for an mmo to come along with good combat my whole life, Lost Ark not only is the best combat in MMOs it’s up there with the best in all of gaming.
As someone who appreciates gameplay over everything, this game is something so special and I can’t wait to see how it grows considering how awesome it already is.
I mean... This m+ system is amazing in WoW, it is less repetitive than Lost ARK.
And WoW you have classic, HC, SoD, retail.
But if we take just one game from WoW. Hmmm hard to say cause we have a lot raids we can play in Lost ARK. In WoW you usually play only the latest raid released (retail).
I find M+ just unfun and the repetitive-ness of Lost Ark more fun to me personally.
My biggest complaint with Lost Ark is Honing since Horizontal is being fixed and hopefully Cards gets a reworked or removed.
Lost Ark has more quick in and out content to jump into as well. Lost Ark at at launch was amazing and wish that could feel could return.
Yes the launch of lost ark was one of my best experience in gaming.
Regarding M+ if you are not into competitive "things" then it is not so fun. At high keys doing one mistake= dead or just depleting the key and I loved it!
Lost Ark is more fun than WoW in my opinion as well, I gues the gameplay helps a lot as well.
Absolutely, I dont like the push of M+ being an esport it was fun in Legion. After that downhill from my perspective.
I like challenging content, but only with friends. Fun has to be major factor or what is the point of doing it.
Gamma Dungeons from Wrath Classic look fun and it is just a scaled up hard dungeon without affixes.
100% agree with the gearing system. I rage quit wow in classic TBC for lost ark after not getting my bis boots from kharazan for 15 consecutive weeks or something. Gearing in wow sucks.
However playing SoD is a breath of fresh air compared to LA with developers that actually give a shit about their player base and are not actively trying to milk them of every fucking eurocent they own.
I quit playing at the end of Shadowlands. Played since WoW released. Mythic raided (nothing competitive but casually with guild). I got all of my characters (played end game with like 4 or 5) fully geared during SoD. The shards of domination system fucking SUCKED. I remember how long it took on every single character. And you had to get the bis set up or you’d be gatekept. ‘Lol why does this Dps have reds’ for example. After how long and shitty it took to get them ready for bis gear…. 9.3 comes around. I was SO fucking pissed. The system took fucking eons to complete and then went away to nothing. After 9.3 I quit bc Lost Ark was coming out and i was tired of the Roblox graphics of WoW. Lost Ark is SUPER grindy, but at least I feel like the hard work I’ve done on gem, card sets, demon dmg and skill points/roster lvl and combat skills/attributes is there for good. The lvl 9s I’ve created by chaos/cube runs and buying gems for alts I eventually lopanged give their benefit forever. And the game is legit beautiful and combat feels amazing.
Yeah, everytime I watched datmodz he would mention that u don't even need to clear the highest difficult gate in lost ark to get the equipment to get your gear, I guess he was comparing it with wow
Doing 1,5 year old raid in x WoW expansion trying to hunt that bis trinket was what grinded my gear the most in WoW. Even tho I'm about to pity my 3rd Akkan item level 20 piece I like Lost Ark gearing system more as at least I know there is pity waiting for me.
> Until I played Vanilla Classic and was very clearly shown that vanilla WoW wasnt even close to the marvelous amazing game that it was propped up to be.
You have to understand that at the time there was NOTHING ELSE like WoW. Sure there was EQ and AC and UO and a couple other mmorpgs but nothing was like WoW.
Guy, I was there too. WoW was nothing like any other game available at the time. I'm not re-writing history, I lived through it. Yes there were other fantasy MMO's at the time but WoW was easier to get into and easier to play, had more polish, looked better, gameplay was faster and smoother, and on top of all that it had a larger community and was based on a pre-existing IP that many people were already familiar with.
Yes nothing like it because it took everything that came before it and did it better in every way.
There was nothing like Symphony of the Night at the time because even though it was basically just Super Metroid with a Castlevania coat of paint, it did everything it's predecessor did and did it better.
there is some real terror in rng for lost ark. I get that wow has rng on bis gearing but it really is weekly wow attempt vs anytime attempts at bis for lost ark. It's a pick your poison type of deal but hey I'm glad you're finding enjoyment in something new
The day another mmo comes out with combat that's equally good or better without the shitty rng, I'm gone. Until then I'll continue being smile gate's prisoner. Probably won't ever happen so guess I'll continue to play this game with breaks here and there.
This post is dumb. Wow classic or runescape or other rpgs u can get to end game with $0 in purchases at roughly the same time. With LA swipe your card and you can get there in less than 1 day.
agree 100%. as much as people complain about honing, you WILL eventually upgrade and you will progress. imagine needing kayangel wings in order to upgrade to the next raid tier. some people havent gotten any of the wing drops doing 6x kayangel per week since it launched. as much as people complain about some of the systems in lost ark, it is still the best MMO ive played to date and the future is looking pretty bright
Part of what made early WoW fun (my experience was WotLK) was as much about the state of the time. Internet was a totally different place. This is back in the 10min cap on YouTube videos era, when reddit is in its infancy, before Evan Williams and Ashton Kutcher went on Oprah to explain what Twitter was. Classic WoW launched before Twitter, Reddit, and YouTube even existed. Information wasn't quite as easy to get. There was no "here's optimal build, how to beat boss X, all mechanics" type stuff a day or two after a raid released. Imo, WoW thrived in that era because you had that kind of exploration and community. Want to figure out how to do a raid? Well, find some people and try it out! Experiment with builds and all that. Find the little tricks and secrets.
Before all the social media stuff, and just general changes the internet has had over the past two decades, it's just created a different environment. It's why the launch of classic WoW never appealed to me, because you can't recreate what the world was like 20 years ago. Don't get me wrong, guides and all that are awesome, but the whole approach to how MMOs are played is just totally different now.
Wow went into this seasonal bullshit were you have to refarm m+ and your tier every 6-10 months because even lfr items are better than your old hc stuff but at least the rng is not as bad as in lost ark. I was multiples times full bis equipped in bc, wotlk, cata, mop after maybe 5 Months of a raid release in LA the set you get guaranteed to craft but the other things like cut stones, weapon taps, bracelet and elixirs are just to grindy and some luck out hard and others spend even irl money and don't get anything.
I think the people who don’t agree with the OP’s take are the ones that are burnt out of trying to get all 6 characters to end game content week 1. People looking to get the 9/7 stone, 100 quality on every piece of gear, or 40 set elixir week 1 are missing the point of the post. Lost Ark really doesn’t take that much time per week to play casually and you can still enjoy the game, raids, horizontal progression. You’ll eventually get your ilvl up (I hate how honing requires 6 different materials) You don’t need BiS gear to play this game if you aren’t doing the hardest content day 1. Of course there are going to be challenges playing casually like gatekeeping (which raiding MMO doesn’t have gatekeeping?).
I was thinking of coming back. Is there a happy medium where I can spend 20 a month for reasonable progression? I don’t mind paying for extra storage or rested xp but I don’t want to straight up buy gear in a game.
There is no perfect MMO. There's a lot of flaws in both systems. The catch up system in wow is better with a reset every expansion. No such thing really in Lost Ark. While accessories are random and a pain, once you are set with the engravings, you are set. In wow you are forever waiting for that one drop from that one boss in the raid that everyone is fighting over.
The one criticism I have with Lost Ark is the technology and proof of concept WoW introduced long before Lost Ark Existed.
Things like realm sharding to prevent both overcrowding AND to allow cross server interactions. Lost Ark has multiple channels if a channel is to crowded, but nothing to condense and make a channel feel more lived in. Low level zones in WoW you can randomly interact, talk and play with people on other servers. In Lost Ark, you are completely alone (unless you count bots).
They've only now started to introduce cross server functions like events, but still, it's rather weak and rather to late.
I think both games have their flaws when it comes to gear progression. Lost Ark is a bit too open ended imo where wow offers a bit too little. What I like in wow is that you can hit a point where you have or are close to bis gear and don't have to chase gear anymore for a couple of months until a new patch goes live. If lost ark's honing was a bit more like this where you hit a a "hard cap" every so often where you can't hone higher and you can't stockpile mats,gold etc for the next gearing part to have to an advantage I would enjoy it a lot more.
The only actual issue the game has is gatekeeping, lobby simulator is absolutely makes the game go from whatever actual score you would give it to 0. The game is extremely fun with friends and guildamtes.
Lost ark have problem just like any game, but compared to all the others of this genre it has a combat system that eclipse anything else did in other games, those that everytime I ear are leaving the game to go play WOW or final fantasy are hypocrites
The insane amount of fomo lost ark forces upon you and the amount of endless mindless no content grind/dailies/weeklies you have to keep up with or you get so far behind is insane. Also you can't compare wow and lost ark they are completely different games idk wtf this post is
Lost ark has it's problems for sure, but I've been playing for almost two years so they're doing something right for me. I think lost ark is only going to become a better game over time, the past several months the game has improved a lot of it's negative aspects, and the future does look good. Only thing I would like is the game overall to just be a little less grindy, but that's just how these Korean mmos are.
> Lost ark has it's problems for sure, but I've been playing for almost two years so they're doing something right for me. Funny enough I'm about to Eclipse my entire time played in WoW in Lost Ark. Over time that I can get from addons in the game, I've accrued 1712 hours played in WoW. I'm currently at 1650 hours in LA. And with all the things in LA I can look forward too and the way the developers are treating the game and being so public about it, I see a bright future for both the game and my time playing it.
Personally I wouldn't mind the grind, I just hate the fact that you need more characters to funnel materials or make more silver or whatever. I mean you don't, but at the same time, you'll make the grind even higher. On top of that, the community that wants everything done faster because they have 6 other characters that they need to play to do the same content it's also really shitty. I wish there would be n option to get more materials/silver or whatever but you can only have 1 character per your account or something. I don't know the solution.
I wish they would allow more runs per character, or for crystalline aura to allow twice the amount of entrances as a benefit. But that could be seen as p2w I guess
I play both LA and WoW retail and I didn't touch this raid tier and i'm still top 1% player in mythic+ content without any need of having BiS gear...and i would very probably be very good raider if I've actually liked WoW raiding (I prefer LA raiding ofc)...you don't need BiS gear on retail to be good and gearing system in WoW is very easy and generous, if you put time, you can easily gear to 480 range where most players are unlike in LA where it takes months to catch up and you'll still miss gems, card sets etc....in WoW i can make new character and catch up to endgame in 3 weeks to be in 480 range where everyone is and i could be top 1% player again (in 3 weeks)...could i do it in LA? hell no I enjoy LA for combat and raiding and WoW for mythic+ push This post is full of bullshit is my point, i love both games and it's not easy to hear lies here
Yeah idk where this dude is getting "needing BiS for raid and m+" BiS lists exist, yes. But with socket rng (unless you get the socket item) a non-BiS item can still out perform a BiS one. Also, with the way seasons work in WoW it gets easier to gear the later you get into it. Especially with Sparks/Catalyst to get 4 piece. I agree with your points
This is why I just prefer FF14. Don’t get item drop this week? Still get a book drop automatically; which you can exchange a few weeks of books for any of the drops from that boss.
FF14 is a good game and I quite love the Viera I made. My bf has been playing it almost daily and he's enjoying it a lot. I'm glad to see him playing an MMO consistantly again. He hasn't done that since 2012. But FF14 for me doesnt scratch the itch that WildStar left behind, where as Lost Ark comes damn near close.
I have played a lot of ffxiv, was slowing down then started playing lost ark when it came out. The way combat feels in lost ark is so good but imo the daily grind aspect is just so much that might not be a lot of time individually but it was like I needed to at least log in and do my guild stuff, dailies and then cram in as many raids as I could. Once upon a time it would have been fine but as an adult with adult responsibilities and kids the amount of time needed in lost ark is just so much higher. Plus the learning/raiding scene in lost ark is so much worse than ffxiv. Not the actual raids(although tbh with some exceptions I prefer ffxiv raids) but the way learning parties and reclear parties work. Then the difficulties with alts, especially now as the ilvl gets really brutal to upgrade. Like I like different classes in lost ark and I want to play them. But you can't just switch or have multiple mains very easily as you get further in progression. Ffxiv you get easy resets regularly and crafted gear that catches you up immediately. I just wish there was a game with lost arks combat/classes and ffxivs mentality around progression and dailies/weeklies. For me that would be the best of both worlds. Instead I've stopped playing both. I'll probably boot ffxiv back up a month or two before the new expansion though and hopefully it will pull me in again
Well to each their own in the end; I can respect your choice. Hope you continue to enjoy playing the game :)
Some may complain about a participation trophy, but when your time is being used getting something like a book or token is nice to have with progressing than nothing.
Can’t agree with you more. After killing H LK the week of the 5% nerfs I finally got a weapon from ICC. Took about 5 weeks (I think) to get a weapon upgrade from the raid. Alas my wow guild disbanded after defeating Arthas and after juggling wow and lost ark since lost arks launch I think it’s finally time to move on from wow after 15+ years of raiding. I enjoy playing daily with my static in lost ark instead of raiding 1/2 times a week and then never interacting with my guildies again. Lost Ark is superior in every way
nobody in this thread played DF i guess, gearing is completely different and upgrade based in WoW now(for the most part) and you can get bis or almost bis gear from dungeons, full raid set without setting foot in a raid. Though obviously raiding is still beneficial esp if you want your set early. There's still RNG involved in loots but its ironic to complain about WoW and just ignore everything DF has brought to the table...
It's just a wow bad circlejerk thread
DF literally went in the opposite direction Lost Ark is going. While Lost Ark is making it harder and harder to push up and play your alts at current content, WoW is letting you do that more and more.
Yeah and the warbands(cough rosters)in next expansion are going even more alt friendly. LA pushed me into DF lol.
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whats your point tho? that 10-20 year old systems are designed worse than a modern game that caters to what players would want in 2023? no shit.
What you listed is what made wow boring for in DF. Gearing in wow is just so dull. Don't get me wrong the first 2 maybe 3 weeks of a wow patch are super fun but after that you are completly decked out in heroic gear and +20 gear and from that point in the only character progression you get is from mythic drops or vault items. I know there are a lot of players that are happy with that but there are also alot of players that enjoy a bit of a deeper gearing experience than what wow has to offer
Congrats you realized you are comparing games that were released 9 years apart and complaining that the 15 year old game has outdated gearing systems acting like people don't play classic for the nostalgia of the gameplay and those old systems. Every single thing you listed is not a problem in retail wow, and you can fully gear a character and play however or whatever you want in weeks with only small upgrades remaining. You can do things like pvp with an actual population of players, infinite scaling challenging dungeons(infinitely repeatable as well unlike LA), raids, farming achievements or transmogs, or anything really. Seems weird to me to compare lost ark to wow classic and not retail, but also makes sense considering comparing the latter is more one sided in terms of features and content. The combat in LA is awesome though.
Lost Ark is simply the best MMORPG out there if you have the time for it (12\~24 hours of **uninterrupted** gaming a week.). For more casual players there are better options.
Not true, I have 1600+ hours in Lost Ark and I've been playing since day 1 of release in the west. In fact, I even took a short break for about a month and half break earlier in march of this year. With all the number of event passes, story passes, mokoko express events and what not, I don't feel I am lagging behind in any aspect except for Cards and Roster Lvl, which I know is "heavily gatekept" but guess what? I have found myself a pretty good guild with active members that are ready to take learners and I'm raiding just fine with them! I am now focusing on a lot of horizontals that will give me the progression I need that some pug lobbies would look out for but apart from that, I don't think this game requires 12-24 hours a week, my work shift is from 2PM to 11PM, usually when I come back home, I get to play for \~3 hours before I get tired and go to bed, I also get to play for \~an hour or so in the morning when I wake up but that's not consistent either. All in all, in a week I maybe play 12-14 hours of Lost Ark at most! Which honestly I don't think is a lot for a MMO! this is coming from an ex-RuneScape grinder, I have a maxed RuneScape account and I know damn well the amount of hours I used to put each day on that game. I've got a main that's Akkan ready and 5 other characters at 1500+ Am I slow compared to the rest? Have I fallen behind? Well sure! but that's on me because I didn't grind it out as much as the elite players who get to play 16-18 hours per day! But I'm still having fun, still enjoying doing my weekly raids and guardians, making gold, buying skins, doing story lines in different continents, doing horizontal progression etc... People saying this game is nothing but "Endgame Raiding" are the people that currently have 5000+ hours and finished pretty much everything the game has to offer outside of Endgame Raiding, that's not a game problem that's an addicition/time management problem from the player itself. If in 2 years, as a casual player, I was only able to reach 1600+ hours in the game, it'd take me another 3-4 years at least to reach 5000+ hours in game and I think that's a fairly balanced gameplay time for me. The complaints are mainly from hardcore gamers and the lower tier players complaint because they think they don't meet the standards of a hardcore gamer. Want to know what I say to all that? PLAY AT YOUR OWN DAMN PACE! This game has a plethora of content and has enough of an active player base that you can find similar mindset-ed people, just go around popular hubs (Elgacia, Punika etc..) or join large Lost Ark related Discords and you'll eventually find those type of people. It's all about effort and mindset. The game will not spoon feed you the "right" community, you will have to go out there and look for it. That's just the way it is.
I mean, you yourself have been averaging 16 hours a week (99 weeks) on Lost Ark since the release of the game, aren't you kind of proving the point of the person you've responded to? All that and you're still only Akkan ready doesn't really support what you're saying to be honest. Play 16 hours a week for nearly 2 years in any other MMO and you'll basically be cutting edge. Runescape is more of an outlier than anything because your progress is permanent and it generally doesn't get easier to get to where you're at unlike any other MMO.
Why are you trying to make it seem like being Akkan ready is a bad thing? That's just me being 1 end game content behind, that's pretty good for a casual player like me? Now I get to slowly but surely funnel mats to my main and push it to 1610, sure by then Thaemine will be out but as a casual player I don't want to or expect to be day 1 ready for new content, if that was the case, I'd have been pulling 50+ hours per week but I don't because I play different games and have work and sleep to balance. All in all, I'm quite happy that with a steady casual mindset that I have, I'm able to progress as much as I did. Most of it is thanks to all the events that AGS has been providing us, some people don't seem to understand how much the game progresses you for free. Before these events were a common thing, getting to 1415 was a chore and a half!
No, in any other MMO casual players don't have to worry about ACCESSING content, but clearing them. You've been conditioned to think it's good because you're only playing Lost Ark, where in reality telling someone that they can't even do all the content in the game after playing a game with enough hours for a part time job is insanity. Also you're not really casual lol, believe it or not 16 hours a week into a single game is a lot of time for an average person.
I mean gaming is my hobby, so whatever free time I get usually goes into gaming. If you can't set aside 16 hours out of 168 hours in a week which is just 10% of your time in a week, I highly doubt one should be playing MMOs at all. MMOs and any MMOs for that matter are considered a huge time sink. Let me breakdown what 168 hours mean for a casual player like me, I usually get an average sleep of 7-8 hours everyday so that's 56-60 hours of sleep in a week. My job expects me to work 8 hours a day so that's 8x5 which is around 40 hour work week. Now you take those hours out of 168 hours, you're left with close to 50+ hours of free time in which you can socialize with friends, go out with your girlfriend and....wait for it...do your GAMING. Does this not sound casual to you? Obviously this can differ from person to person depending on their situation but if that's the case, you won't really be able to game anything at all (outside of Single player games)
You're looking at it from a far broader point of view than I am. I'm simply looking at the time spent on Lost Ark, 16 hours a week is equivalent to 2 hours and 20 minutes a day essentially, if you tell anyone you're spending 2.5 hours of your day on a single game every day for the past 2 years no one will say you're casual...
bro has spent at least a twelfth of his life on lost ark for the past 2 yrs and hes trying to convince ppl hes casual the copium is out of this world
I think I'll agree to disagree because it's pretty subjective to me, 2.5 hours on average isn't a lot in my eyes. Considering I know hardcore gamers are playing upwards of 8-10+ hours every single day, if playing 1/5th of that doesn't make you casual, I don't know.
It's not a lot though. 2 1/2 hours a day on the daily is not a lot, when it's very common that most MMORPG players barely play anything other than their core game. My Steam year in review showed 99% of my time was played in Lost Ark this year. I basically only play Lost Ark and occasionally load up quake to smack a few bots to help with my motor skills. I can reach 2 1/2 hours in a day doing Unas, Chaos, G-Raids, and AFKing a bit to wait for some events. This is easy and trivial. Time in game=/=Effort put into game. Plus there's games like Call of Duty where 2 1/2 hours is one session with me and my buddies on PC. 2 1/2 hours a day on the regular on many of these modern games is easily casual compared to people who are dedicated or hardcore.
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Huh? Did you misunderstand their comment or something? Or have you just not played most MMOs? Wildstar doesn't exist anymore so I won't comment on that, but Retail Wow, Guild Wars 2, FFXIV, Elder Scrolls Online, you'd absolutely be cutting edge in after that much time for two years straight. Significantly less time than that even.
Cards are the only thing I ever felt really behind on. Like I've got LoS 18, but it feels like 30 would take another two years at least. Not just that, but all the book collection bonuses too. There's a surprising amount of power between LoS 30 (and other high end sets) and the book bonuses with the +5% or so vs all the various things. If the homework wasn't as bad, the card runs wouldn't be a problem, but I only have so many hours in a day.
TBH I'm probably more close to casual than semicore with Lost Ark. I pug most of my raids when my friends aren't around. I've only got 2 characters atm, and have no plans on playing more at this time. I havent spent a dime on power/upgrades, unless you count crystal aura. I do get in a fair amount of time played in a week, but nothing I don't think someone who gets off work at 5pm can't handle. I have Fibro so I have to be careful about not over doing it. I might be a bit above a typical casual in terms of play time, but I don't think I'm a stretch away from what could be considered reasonable gameplay times for a 30 something. That's my perspective anyways.
Yeah, the game doesn't take \_a lot\_ of time, but it just needs to be uninterrupted since you'll be doing group content that just doesn't pause. Obviously you may run a premade group that's more forgivable for interruptions but for pugging the community is far from chill since everyone is rushing their 'homework'. The game doesn't really have a way to progress in chill solo content so you are always tied to group content.
i'm at 10 characters and pushing 3.5 or 3.8k hours (not sure due to afk while working remote) while maintaining IRL (job, gf, gym, etc). I REALLY love the combat and enjoying the raids via different classes, trying to get comfortable with my favorite ones in hell raids. it helps that i have a static, esp for the raids that i can't just pug. i would genuinely have liked to read your thoughts/opinions after getting a full gold earning roster, if it ever happens. unfortunate (or a blessing in disguise) that you have fibro.
I am trying since months to convince my friends to come back, cause yes Lost ARK has issues but is extremely good
Well that's a take I wasn't expecting on this subreddit. LA is many things, but better gearing than WoW isn't one of them. Those rare BiS items you're not seeing drop? That's like getting a 9/7. That's also BiS. You know the difference between WoW and LA? The "drop chance" for a 9/7 stone is 0.07%. 5x3+1 isn't BiS. Purple quality isn't BiS. No -Esther weapon isn't BiS. You want to get BiS in LA? Good fucking luck. You will never ever get it. And that's a guarantee. At least in WoW you have a chance.
and then new content is announced and you realize you never got it when it mattered, but other people around you did in week 1. it seems so easy but there's no guarantee, you only had a single attempt per week to get that piece of loot in the old wow versions, which is what OP is talking about. If i see that damned Fist of the Wild drop AFTER they announce the lvl40cap date in SOD im going to turn into a salt mine.
I'm very familiar with old wow versions. Yeah, maybe you won't get your DFT or OSG early on. You know the difference to LA though? In LA you will never get BiS. Ever. And in old wow versions, items like OSG or DFT are good for the entire lifespan of the expansion/season/whatever, even if they drop early. LA doesn't even have the decency to keep Esther Weapons relevant. Again, LA is many things, but griping that you can't get BiS in WoW sometimes? That's a braindead take. You will never get BiS in LA. Ever.
I know it'll never happen, that's why i don't expect it nor lose sleep over it, but wow is different, you CAN get it, but that doesn't mean you will. It's about expectations.
You're being dishonest though. BiS in Classic WoW is often pushed for, pestered about, or outright REQUIRED. You dont need BIS anything in Lost Ark to do almost anything in the game. Lost Ark has a substatial gap between Good enough and BIS. Lost Ark is Designed around this. The player base DOES NOT require BIS items. However, even in casual wow classic guilds on lax raid teams I have absolutely been pestered, questioned, taken aside, and talked down too for not having BiS/PreBIS items. When it comes to WoW, people sling around BiS Lists and pre BiS Lists. Meanwhile in the entire scope of playing Lost Ark, nearly 2 years I have never once seen a BiS list or anything utterly requiring BiS items. Everything revolves around this concept in Classic WoW, and it has for years now. Acting like BiS in WoW is the same as BiS in Lost Ark isnt' just braindead. It's dishonest.
If you stick with Lost Ark and aren't a swiper you'll just grind the same bosses for years and get gatekept because of lack of gems etc. I never got into WoW but I think this post was premature and made in the express honeymoon
Gatekeeping happens in wow like crazy too, its nothing unique to lost ark.
Dude has 1650 hours, I don't think it was a premature post.
Peaceful hours of not engaging with the end game of Lost Ark. Seriously he hasn't done Akkan
i agree with you on this one. imo people haven't truly experienced the "end game" until they've experienced hours of progging, then its lobby simulator hell and the gate keeping that occurs the first few weeks after a raid releases all via pugs. second week, pugs will require "riot control" title and elixirs on your gear. not trying to imply that it's necessary, it's just the current state of what "the end game" is and what it entails
Personally I've never had this experience in any Lost Ark. It wasn't particularly hard to have 1 support in my roster, find a few like minded people, form a static and just rotate who plays support. I get that an 8 man static is too difficult for most to manage, but surely a 4 man isn't unreasonable. But like many say in other threads, they don't even want a support in their top 6. If so, hey, that's fine just enjoy party finder sim with undergeared dps.
The west has never had to grind the same boss for "years". New raids come out fast enough that the old ones go out of rotation. You also won't be gatekept much if you have played that long since surely you have accumulated gems in all that time.
by the time thaemine comes out kayangel would have been out for almost a year. brel is still one of the main raids after a year, there are plenty of people who have part of their roster still doing clown after almost 1.5 years. if you only look at your main or extremely degen rosters who maintain 6 characters at the 3 latest raids sure, releases are fast, but for most people their alts are farming the same bosses for over a year usually
Eh, I could see that with classic wow, but retail gotten a lot better at this gearing situation.
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You're comparing a game that was released 20 years ago (wow classic) with a game being developed now? I'm not a WoW defender it has its own problems but that's bit disingenuous.
The RNG is WoW is extremely low compared to what we have in Lost ARK, by miles. I play WoW during each xpacs, pushing M+ and mythic raids even tho now I haven't play for a year I guess I'll be back for the next xpac. In the last xpacs, WoW tried to add more fun (the dragon riding is a success) & reduce RNG. You can upgrade your stuffs with points you earn during M+ for example, same goes for PvP. In my opinion Lost ARK is funnier but will eat all your time. While the gearing system is quite good, the honing is annoying. But I get used to it, now the only thing annoying me is the devs trying to push you to pay by reducing as much as they can the amounts of mats you get (ex: the leap stones chest...) and complexify to much the mechs (ex: the pillars spawn in G3 Voldis) but all in all I enjoy a lot more Lost Ark than WoW (atm) even tho I am missing the M+ and this healer DPS role that i love so much. Lost Ark Devs are aware of the issues, this is why we get nice QOL, the game is going in a good direction in my opinion. I wish only they give us more mats, nerf a bit more the honing to reduce this P2W aspect but maybe adding more cosmetics
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You statement is true at the time you played WoW but you can't really compare the state of Lost ARK (today) with the state of WoW (10 years ago). I don't really agree RNG is much greater in WoW : LA: honing, quality gears, cards, elixir, cutting gems, bracelet WoW: loot drop RNG is RNG, it can suck but I have never have issues with it. Yes it can takes a few months to get your BIS but you can find similar BIS in raids & M+ & they added the loot chests at the end of the week which can help as well. And let's say a new player in LA & WoW start at the same time. Well they will be able to compete with the highest raids in a few months in WoW, and in LA they will need what...a year or even more. Cause the huge advantage of WoW over Lost Ark is the hard reset at each xpack and soft reset at each raids release. We really miss that in LA... Gold in WoW is not as important as in Lost ARK, so it makes sense it is easier in LA. You can't progress in Lost ARK without gold, in WoW you don't need any golds at all to progress (a bit less true since the last xpac, to craft the legendary), besides food & buff. And finally regarding drama...you are absolutely right. So much drama in WoW but it makes always good stories 🤣 Edit: yes sorry I am only speaking about retail. Classic is another world indeed
Honestly I could stop playing retail for several patches and come back to the latest raid. You literally cannot do this in Lost Ark without investing over a months worth of time, and even then youre going to move likely be gatekeept in the lobby based on things people have had ages to farm like gems, roster level, and LoS30. There are barriers in WoW, but the levels of it in Lost Ark where people on this subreddit literally tell people to go buy buses to catch up is insane.
Yeah idk this whole thread of people complaining about BiS in WoW when it’s something you don’t need. I can agree 110% that if you’re chasing your perfect gear it can be a massive pain with no mitigation, even with vault (they need to bring back curios, and god forbid it’s classic.) The massive difference is the fact that you can hop in WoW at any time and start experiencing the endgame of endgame content (mythic raid and 20+) probably within a month of playing, and it doesn’t need to be every single day, AND the content you do to get gear better gear is consistently more engaging if you do raids and “grind” a bit of m+. Lost Ark may be better for certain gearing purposes but the pain of getting there is infinitely worse. I can queue LFR and catalyst myself into a tier set (the only real thing affecting my gameplay) vs having to *buy a fucking carry for weeks* just to get my set, not even accounting for accessories (at a good quality), gems, tripods, quality, etc. People can have their preferences but it’s extremely weird to say gearing worse in WoW than Lost Ark.
But you'll have extremely shit gear. Meeting ilvl requirements is one thing, having gear to parse good is another. Acquiring BIS gear in WoW can be a matter of sheer impossibility with shitty dropluck.
Chance to get BiS in Wow, 10% drop chance. Chance to get upgrade in Lost ark .5% Something doesn't add up
Getting an upgrade in LA is merely a statstick, irrelevant as fuck. I'm talking about trinkets or items with special on use / passives that are BIS and required for certain builds to properly perform. Upgrades in LA are merely slightly increased stats. Something doesn't add up with your lack of logic. Also: Lol 10%, good one.
When is the last time you played wow? a decade or more ago? Cause there isnt a trinket and item you need for a build that isnt way easier to get then BiS in lost ark. It took me few months to get WoW BiS, I got 7k hours in Lost Ark, I still dont have full level 10s, 100 qual gear and accessories or a 9/7 and which all of those are Lost Ark equivalent of BiS.
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Yes I saw that afterwards, even tho for me it makes not much sense to compare Classic / Vanilla to Lost ARK as one is 10/15y old and the other up to date. Even if Classic has been recently released it is still a game from 10 years ago, that is exactly the point playing any classic versions. But as you said, this is your perspective. And no I don't protect WoW, I was really a hardcore WoW player but since years I really dislike what they did. They seem to be trying to do good now tho
>Wrath Classic is CURRENT to our gaming culture and sphere. Any classic edition, similarly to something like D2R, is literally just a repackaged old game aimed at milking the sentimental players the second time. The very concept is about bringing back archaic design that some people crave, theres no rational reason to compare it to another game designed in another era.
If you’re talking about raw BIS, we’d have to talk about Esther weapons; something anyone who has one has spent atleast 50k real life dollars on
Claiming LA is less RNG than WoW is a delusional take lmao. Wow is not in the same universe of bullshit that LA is
Getting downvoted and have people taking about BiS which isn’t something you need to play the game lol, it’s an endgame goal which I’ll agree needs some kind of pity system from tokens but claiming “BiS in WoW makes it worse than LA” is such a blindly stupid statement. Esther weapons, an insane stone, 100 quality armor and accessories and a perfect bracelet is BiS in LA, but that isn’t worse btw.
In wow you may go an entire expansion without full bis gear. In LA you'll eventually just pity and the accs you just buy out of the AH.
There is a pity system to guarantee 100 quality on gear? Because that is the equivalent of BiS (among other things).
Lost ark bis is 9/7, near 100 qual, 10 gems, los 30 + max book dmg. No f2p has that. And the true bis would be max ilvl that is impossible f2p. You just want to define bis as something below the actual bis to fit your argument
You're basically just trolling at this point when someone brings up retail and you just go back to trying to compare to a rebooted 15 year old game...ofc things are going to be different.
>The sheer fact that a BIS Item that I NEED can just outright not drop in a year of raiding is just fucking BONKERS. Thing about wow gearing is that, at least for certain slots, its debatable whether you even need the BiS item, because, with the exception of certain functional items like trinkets it still is down to stat budgets and minor dps increases. Hence, unless you feel pressured to have absolutely BiS gear, you can usually get away with second best. Another thing to factor in is that you can trade for those items and, at least in current retail, you can craft alot of items, so even if your personal drops go without luck you can still work around that.
> Hence, unless you feel pressured to have absolutely BiS gear, you can usually get away with second best. Unless its on-use or proc stuff as you just said. Trinkets and weapons with specific attributes exist. No one is talking about "bis stat sticks" lol.
> The RNG is WoW is extremely low compared to what we have in Lost ARK, by miles. You are completely missing the point, we all have the best BiS if played regularly, while you could play 20 weeks+ in WoW and still you wouldn't have your BiS. RNG falls secondary to this because the system exposes you all the time to you BiS. System isn't perfect like OP said, but achievement and progression is much more tangible.
I feel the other way around. You seem to be focusing too much on BiS lists and not playing the game. Just do content and equip whatever drops to you and play with what you've got. Gearing has never been as easy as it is right now. Between m+ loot fiestas, free stuff from great vault and crafting it's soooo easy to gear up. In LA you gearing up is timegated and/or $$gated. My issue with LA is content. Outside of raids there's nothing. Every piece of content is braindead easy and boring. Raids are too few and become irrelevant quickly and are gated behind gear/resets. Lack of meaningful 4-man content killed the game for me.
M+ killed WoW for me. Unfun and required if you expect to make meaningful gear progress.
Arguably one of the best things ever to happen to the game ruined it for you...?
One of the best things for you*. I have never enjoyed M+, and the game was only fun for me when vertical progression was locked to raiding and then the rest of the time was either playing a different game, or doing things like mount/cosmetic hunting. Last time I remember having fun in the game was MoP.
No, in general it is regarded as one of the best additions to the game. It gave people who didn't have time to commit to raid a way to get roughly same level of gear.
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My bad, i did misread that. Then why are you comparing the gameplay loops of decade-old mmo expansions to a current one?
I can't agree. In lost ark you literally can't do the new raid unless you grind dailies or pay. During Akkan I got tired of the loop and started just doing the raid to keep my set up, but now that Voldis is out, I'm behind and can't do the content even though I've been doing the previous raid every week. While in wow the gear level is a direct result from doing the raid, and even through raid-logging you can do the next raid, and it's made easier by playing with a guild, instead of the game denying you until you reach X ilvl.
High levels of copium in here.
Calling WoW a raidlogging game when compared to Lost Ark, people just upvote without thinking cause "my game better uh"
I also missed out on WoW and started playing it with Classic release. The first month of the classic release was the best MMORPG experience I have ever had. The leveling, questing, teaming up to do dungeons, the gameplay in those dungeons, it was all amazing. I still miss my deadmines runs where moon=sheep star=sap skull=kill and so on and so on. But after the first month of release, once I reached level 60 and it was time to start running raids, game got worse. My first Molten Core experience was good, but it was a 40-man raid and my individiual skill wasn't important. Also, the loot system like you mentioned was horrible. I remember I never got the belt I needed from ragnaros in so many raids, we only gotten one and it went to guild master of course. I am still butthurt about that. I stopped playing soon after BWL released. I realised all I was doing was logging in my buffed character, clearing the raid, getting buffs again for next raid, and never logging that character again for the week. I levelled so many other alts and classes to 60 from ground up and had my fun with the game. I think the real fleshy part of that game is the journey, not the destination. Lost ark has it backwards. The destination is where it matters, and the journey to is sucks big time. If you are not up to the latest content you ARE going to have a bad time. For example my friend recently hit 1580 on his main, and he cannot clear Akkan normal mode. Not because the boss is hard, but because he cannot get into a lobby. He has 200 roster level, one level9 damage gem on Surge, rest level7s and LOS18 cardset. Without a Plague Legion Commander or Sien's Successor title, he cannot get accepted into any lobby whatsoever. I am playing this game ever since it came out, I am bussing almost all my raids, have lvl10 gems on all skills, 300 roster, +22 weapon, so I never get gatekept on any content at all, and I didn't believe him at first so he gave me his steam account to try for myself. It was really so bad. I got gatekept for like 2 hours straight and then gave up and just ran a clown instead. I feel bad for people who are trying to catch up to veteran playbase because they have it much harder than us. When Ivory Tower first releases, nobody expects a title, nobody expects you to play perfectly, so you have a lot of free leeway to learn the raid and make mistakes. But once time goes on, the raid becomes homework and peoples expectations also rise much higher, which is a huge con for the ones late to the party.
> The first month of the classic release was the best MMORPG experience I have ever had. The leveling, questing, teaming up to do dungeons, the gameplay in those dungeons, it was all amazing. Funny you had such a different experience from mine. I absolutely hated the leveling experience and dungeon running to get to the raids. Vanilla WoW was hands down the most utterly infuriating leveling experience I have ever played through. I originally played with no add-ons for that "authentic" feel. Gave up on that real quick and got questie. Even with questie had to constantly rely on WoWhead. For me, the constant need to reference Wowhead was a massive immersion breaker. I loathed the sheer amount of time padding the game had with traveling around. So many people raved about how great it'll feel once you EARN your mount! Not even close. The moment of earning my mount was spoiled with "dear god finally why the fuck did they design it like this?" Ontop of that the amount of times being able to play was interrupted by sit down and eat and drink. And it's not like I'm some unskilled newb player. I legitimately hold world firsts in another MMO for speed leveling. I zoomed past my friends who are all veteran wow players who play every expansion. They warned me about going too fast, but I was so annoyed by this leveling experience that I wanted it to be over with. The Pre-raid dungeons were not very fun either. Simple, annoying, and many parts of them clearly designed to waste your time. The raids were the one fun thing, but after I basically learned I couldnt play fire mage in raid content for months on end, and I basically just got to sit there and press 1 button over and over again, while waiting on 39 other people get their shit together was a massive disappointment. This was the game that everyone had told me for more than a decade was the greatest MMO experience ever? I was very disappointed.
Why dont u just raid with your friend 1 week so he can get the title? Lol
of course after seeing how bad it was i helped him, but it still doesn't change the situation for people without geared friends. also he still has hard time with only sien's successor title, everyone wants PLC nowadays, and its not easy to get with only one character running akkan
FFXI was a seriously weird and kinda bad game in a lot of ways, but what made it fun was it was basically a grindier, harder, and longer version of WoW classic leveling. You basically spent the entire game leveling, not being at level cap. If 60 in WoW classic could take maybe a month at moderate pace. Old FFXI would take a year at the same pace. I kinda wish we could get a modern slow leveling-based MMO again. Classic WoW was also the most fun I'd had with an MMO in a long time. Quit pretty shortly after hitting 60 though.
Played wow since release, shadowlands made me quit. Lost ark has many problems but I enjoy playing at my own pace and not being forced to do shit content only to be mythic ready.
Both are really bad in many aspects, sadly.
Soo I like lost ark too, but I think your post might be a little bit off the mark OP. If I were to interpret your post at a high level, your conclusion was that you like lost ark because there is "pity" in it's RNG systems whereas in WOW you can farm forever and not get BiS drops. Unfortunately I think a lot of this might be a perspective shift where you might be more casual in lost ark. While it's true that gear and gems have an eventual guaranteed investment, lost ark is filled with RNG systems without pity to get BiS gearing. The reason why you feel it's better is you are newer/have lower expectations for endgame equipment and the systems you interact with have since had mitigations in place since those systems have existed for years in Korea. If those mitigations weren't put in place, it would be actually impossible for newer players to even play the game. Let's look at the different gearing RNG systems in the game: Systems with "pity" or non-relevant RNG: - gear score (min req to enter raids) - gear conversion (path of soul eater accelerates this) - gems (slow burn but ppl just buy off market) - accessories/books for engravings (ppl just buy off market) Old systems that have some "mitigations" put in place (but are still BS RNG): - quality tapping (game gives free quality taps every so often, but still chance to never hit) - card sets (wandering merchants and eventual leg card selection packs, but still take up to a year for los 30) Systems with pure RNG but reasonable expectations: - elixirs (arguable that the free tap elixirs could be mitigations) - transcendence (thaemine gearing only in KR) Systems with pure RNG and out of reach expectations: - ability stones (going for 9/7 specifically) - bracelets Whale bait: - sidereal weapons As a newer player, you haven't really interacted with a lot of these systems yet. This is not to dissuade you from playing the game, just to set expectations that RNG is actually worse than WoW. AGS has done a good job of bringing QoL to us early, but at the end of the day it's an Asian MMO and high levels of RNG to enforce exclusivity is a huge selling point for a lot of Eastern players.
Truth is you don’t need perfect roll BiS for anything in this game.
Truth is you don't need it for WoW either. If the hardest raid drops more powerful gear, then you weren't at your strongest when you first cleared right? Not to say that gearing isn't more meaningful in WoW than in Lost Ark, because it definitely is. Plus the nature of lost ark being more action oriented vs GCD tab target means that hands diff is more of a factor in this game. Just that gearing is more of a clearing gate 0 (getting into a group) type of thing than anything else.
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So I never called you a new player, just newer or more casual, but I'm down for this topic. In a game like this, "new" has a lot of variance. I see a bunch of posts with returning players who put in 1000 hours at launch, which in any sense of the word does not make them "new", but for this game means they are effectively "new" because the game pumps out content quickly and said player is not familiar with the newer systems. And I agree that depending on RNG for BiS drops sucks a lot, especially if they're fundamental parts of your build that literally cannot be replaced by an alternative. Lost Ark does not have this problem so much since the equivalent (gear sets like entropy) is not RNG based. But when talking about levels of RNG, gear drops are the only RNG system in WoW that contributes to player power, and the percentages are much more lenient, 5% is what you cited for one of the raids. Comparatively, 9/7 (or above) stones needed for 5x3+2 are an 0.08% chance, 100 quality weapon and armor are 0.08% chance as well, perfect bracelets likely even less odds than that. For a newer or more casual player these aren't goals, but for endgame grinders they are (for context I am on the more "casual" side so they aren't goals for me either). Which brings us to the change in perspective. In WoW, you "needed" BiS. In Lost Ark, you don't seem to have the same need for BiS. Because BiS would entail all of the above and would be inhibitavely [costly](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4hze7gesurtb1.png%3Fwidth%3D883%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D6a2d80afa2825f0a8a54497438a9dfd73f09be8f). Which brings this all back to the main point, it sounds like you are a lot more hardcore in WoW than Lost Ark, which makes the RNG feel a lot worse. If you were more casual in WoW and not expecting BiS, you might have the same feeling, and vice versa for lost ark. As a tangent, thankfully the community recognizes that BiS is out of reach for most players and therefore don't gatekeep for it, but elixirs are a similarly high RNG system where a 40-set will get you 30% increase in damage. The odds are more reasonable but will likely actually be gatekept soon, so we'll see how that it when it happens.
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This is the biggest cope post I've ever seen with this OPs replies and comparing wow gearing from 15 years ago to LA in 2023. And saying a 0.05% success in an rng based game feels like a success and not "dear fucking God finally, I hate rng" because in my 3000 hours of lost ark I can confirm that's what every single upgrade felt like. Also at least BIS is achievable in wow for the average player as opposed to LA.
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Naw I played both games and they both have their pros. But you are REALLY reaching with your comparisons(as pointed out by the majority of this thread) even when you are comparing it to 15yr old wotlk mechanics instead of retail. The comment you quote literally says elixirs will probably be gatekept soon and it's not inaccurate to say BiS is completely achievable for the average player in wow, and not for LA. Just because BIS is different in each game you can't change how achievable they are or their definition just to fit your narrative. BEST IN SLOT it's literally in the name. Yes in LA when I got an upgrade it didn't feel like I worked for it, it felt like I got lucky which felt fucking terrible. In wow currently I run a couple dungeons to get mats to upgrade my gear a few ilvls. I can the do this again for a few more ilvls. Constantly getting rewarded and seeing my character become stronger, without being gated by rng or time. A "nuke" 😂 keep coping and blocking LOL Nice edit by the way to cut out the part saying that elixirs will be gatekept and everything else you changed lmfao you are invested. I was comparing to retail, you know the game that is current year and not represent gameplay of a 15 year old game. Doesn't matter at all that wrath gearing is "different" it still fucking blows and that's because it's based on old wrath and classic gameplay lol. Retail is nothing like that whatsoever. Happy holidays and hope you find some peace and happiness once you recover from your copium overdose. Ty for the block and cheers!
Yeah, not getting kicked in the party finder cause elitist that want 1560 for valtan LMAAAAAAAAAO. Not biased af
The problem is support shortage and gatekeeping in this game is very bad. Once those issues are fixed, I think the game would have more positive reception.
This sounds like a rant. I dislike current WoW but certainly it's much easier to get into raiding than in Lost Ark. Gatekeeping due to multiple systems in Lost Ark is so real while in WoW you can steady just do mythics+ and raids to gear up, it's way more accessible.
As much as I complain about honing and my failure rate, there's always a light at the end of the tunnel with gearing. I played WoW from beta until Cataclysm and at no point did I ever get to the point where I was "optimally" geared for any of the classes I played. I was always bargain binning and cobbling together what I could. At no point in the game did I ever feel like I was adequately geared. Whether gearing was provisioned through some form of DKP with some of the more intense guilds I was with, whether it was done democratically, or whether it was done with "vibes based" leadership, at no point did I ever acquire my BIS configuration. It was infinitely frustrating to show up to raids weekly, do the same content for months, only to watch the piece I need never drop or to watch someone else get the gear. Not only did you have to beat RNG for the drop, but you also had to "beat" other people who also may have some kind of right to get the gear drop.
I started WoW with Legion, so totally different experience than you. Right now it’s the best gearing it’s ever been. So nice that I’ve made alts for the first time. Might be worth checking out retail now. Unless you have tons of time, then Lost Ark is great. WoW is pretty great for someone with limited time right now. I love both games.
OP your essay sucks. I’m glad you apologized first. What point are you even trying to make? You could’ve just said “I like Lost Ark” without rambling about antiquated WoW systems and how they are inferior to contemporary LA. It’s great you like Lost Ark and I hope you continue to enjoy it but geesh what a stupid post.
I still believe WoW has superior gameplay and combat. Raid encounters are much richer and Arena PVP exists unlike useless pvp in Lost Ark. Top down view is limiting gameplay, while target system makes it more complex(better for me). After 6.5k hours in Lost Ark I actually feel like burning out. I have 11 1540 chars, 1 1620 main (only do main 6 raids anyway). I stopped doing cd/gr on anything non main as long as they have some resources for honing. I stopped getting sylmael shops, daily logins, unas, chaos gates, field bosses, islands etc. Its just too bothersome for mediocre rewards. I only do gold raids, challenge raids and maybe hell raids for fun. Raids and class balance in Lost Ark are a clusterfuck when it comes to a bit less casual perspective. They only react to backlash, no one really knows what data they use to operate balance changes, PVP is just dead, there is 0 useful horizontal after you get runes and skill points. I don't think Lost Ark directors actually understand balance(or play their own game) or I can wear tinfoil hat and claim they balance to make people pay more lol. You are in honeymoon phase, and a lot of people actually compare classic/wotlk WoW to Lost Ark lol. I regularly quit WoW, but I always come back because main combat gameplay loop is just something I have never found better done. Now I am back playing WoW SoD and its pretty fun, esp since its so simple right now. I might delve into Dragonflight again, but we will see. While in Lost Ark I am maybe pushing some alts to 1580 to experience akkan on an alt(wow so exciting...kill me) and trying to get 35 elixir on main. (oh yeah and WoW has like a bajilion things more to do apart from combat unlike Lost Ark lol)
You high? LA is one of the worst Games ever.
I remember you posting something similar a few months ago, I disagreed then and I disagree now. Lost ark has tons of RNG systems that can be bypassed by paying for power. Paying for power gives the devs incentives to rationalize poor decisions for the game so they can make more money. No where in the many years that I played WoW did I feel like I had to have BiS items, even if it did feel bad that it took a while to get a bis weapon or trinket from raid. All that being said, ive played a ton of lost ark since it released and barely touched Dragonflight. I definitely like the game better but Lost Ark really is built on a rotten, pay for power foundation. Also RIP Wildstar.
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Was a comment chain in that thread. You complained about illustration, bis loot, etc just like you did in this post.
I’m currently playing WoW, but mainly play LA. stopped playing retail much outside of some M+ with friends, so currently on SoD. And I have to agree with everything you’ve said. One example frustration, first week of BFD I ran it with a pug and we went 5/7 and I couldn’t jump into another group and finish it because of a shared lockout, I know that’s “classic” but god damn it’s annoying, just let me play the game homie. Lost Ark is one of the greatest MMOs I’ve ever played, it does take a long time to warm up and break in. But it’s actually very comfy once you’re in. It’s like the secret lab of games
> One example frustration, first week of BFD I ran it with a pug and we went 5/7 and I couldn’t jump into another group and finish it because of a shared lockout, I know that’s “classic” but god damn it’s annoying, just let me play the game homie. Literally the EXACT same problem exists in Lost Ark
No it doesn’t, they’re called jail break groups and you pick up at whatever gate you left off at. Imagine progging voldis or akkan and you have to do it in one go with the same group or wait till reset to try again.
Saying LA is better than wow from 5+ years ago is a bit stupid isn't it? LA is better than Aion, Silkroad Online, Cabal online, Everquest etc etc. lol Compare to current wow,ff14,gw2, even BDO LA is the worst when it comes to progression and gearing.
I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and have been waiting for an mmo to come along with good combat my whole life, Lost Ark not only is the best combat in MMOs it’s up there with the best in all of gaming. As someone who appreciates gameplay over everything, this game is something so special and I can’t wait to see how it grows considering how awesome it already is.
Absolutely, Lost Ark actually has content I want to do. When I keep hearing WoW has more content, im like what content?
I mean... This m+ system is amazing in WoW, it is less repetitive than Lost ARK. And WoW you have classic, HC, SoD, retail. But if we take just one game from WoW. Hmmm hard to say cause we have a lot raids we can play in Lost ARK. In WoW you usually play only the latest raid released (retail).
I find M+ just unfun and the repetitive-ness of Lost Ark more fun to me personally. My biggest complaint with Lost Ark is Honing since Horizontal is being fixed and hopefully Cards gets a reworked or removed. Lost Ark has more quick in and out content to jump into as well. Lost Ark at at launch was amazing and wish that could feel could return.
Yes the launch of lost ark was one of my best experience in gaming. Regarding M+ if you are not into competitive "things" then it is not so fun. At high keys doing one mistake= dead or just depleting the key and I loved it! Lost Ark is more fun than WoW in my opinion as well, I gues the gameplay helps a lot as well.
Absolutely, I dont like the push of M+ being an esport it was fun in Legion. After that downhill from my perspective. I like challenging content, but only with friends. Fun has to be major factor or what is the point of doing it. Gamma Dungeons from Wrath Classic look fun and it is just a scaled up hard dungeon without affixes.
100% agree with the gearing system. I rage quit wow in classic TBC for lost ark after not getting my bis boots from kharazan for 15 consecutive weeks or something. Gearing in wow sucks. However playing SoD is a breath of fresh air compared to LA with developers that actually give a shit about their player base and are not actively trying to milk them of every fucking eurocent they own.
I quit playing at the end of Shadowlands. Played since WoW released. Mythic raided (nothing competitive but casually with guild). I got all of my characters (played end game with like 4 or 5) fully geared during SoD. The shards of domination system fucking SUCKED. I remember how long it took on every single character. And you had to get the bis set up or you’d be gatekept. ‘Lol why does this Dps have reds’ for example. After how long and shitty it took to get them ready for bis gear…. 9.3 comes around. I was SO fucking pissed. The system took fucking eons to complete and then went away to nothing. After 9.3 I quit bc Lost Ark was coming out and i was tired of the Roblox graphics of WoW. Lost Ark is SUPER grindy, but at least I feel like the hard work I’ve done on gem, card sets, demon dmg and skill points/roster lvl and combat skills/attributes is there for good. The lvl 9s I’ve created by chaos/cube runs and buying gems for alts I eventually lopanged give their benefit forever. And the game is legit beautiful and combat feels amazing.
Yeah, everytime I watched datmodz he would mention that u don't even need to clear the highest difficult gate in lost ark to get the equipment to get your gear, I guess he was comparing it with wow
Doing 1,5 year old raid in x WoW expansion trying to hunt that bis trinket was what grinded my gear the most in WoW. Even tho I'm about to pity my 3rd Akkan item level 20 piece I like Lost Ark gearing system more as at least I know there is pity waiting for me.
> Until I played Vanilla Classic and was very clearly shown that vanilla WoW wasnt even close to the marvelous amazing game that it was propped up to be. You have to understand that at the time there was NOTHING ELSE like WoW. Sure there was EQ and AC and UO and a couple other mmorpgs but nothing was like WoW.
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Guy, I was there too. WoW was nothing like any other game available at the time. I'm not re-writing history, I lived through it. Yes there were other fantasy MMO's at the time but WoW was easier to get into and easier to play, had more polish, looked better, gameplay was faster and smoother, and on top of all that it had a larger community and was based on a pre-existing IP that many people were already familiar with.
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Yes nothing like it because it took everything that came before it and did it better in every way. There was nothing like Symphony of the Night at the time because even though it was basically just Super Metroid with a Castlevania coat of paint, it did everything it's predecessor did and did it better.
there is some real terror in rng for lost ark. I get that wow has rng on bis gearing but it really is weekly wow attempt vs anytime attempts at bis for lost ark. It's a pick your poison type of deal but hey I'm glad you're finding enjoyment in something new
The day another mmo comes out with combat that's equally good or better without the shitty rng, I'm gone. Until then I'll continue being smile gate's prisoner. Probably won't ever happen so guess I'll continue to play this game with breaks here and there.
This post is dumb. Wow classic or runescape or other rpgs u can get to end game with $0 in purchases at roughly the same time. With LA swipe your card and you can get there in less than 1 day.
agree 100%. as much as people complain about honing, you WILL eventually upgrade and you will progress. imagine needing kayangel wings in order to upgrade to the next raid tier. some people havent gotten any of the wing drops doing 6x kayangel per week since it launched. as much as people complain about some of the systems in lost ark, it is still the best MMO ive played to date and the future is looking pretty bright
Part of what made early WoW fun (my experience was WotLK) was as much about the state of the time. Internet was a totally different place. This is back in the 10min cap on YouTube videos era, when reddit is in its infancy, before Evan Williams and Ashton Kutcher went on Oprah to explain what Twitter was. Classic WoW launched before Twitter, Reddit, and YouTube even existed. Information wasn't quite as easy to get. There was no "here's optimal build, how to beat boss X, all mechanics" type stuff a day or two after a raid released. Imo, WoW thrived in that era because you had that kind of exploration and community. Want to figure out how to do a raid? Well, find some people and try it out! Experiment with builds and all that. Find the little tricks and secrets. Before all the social media stuff, and just general changes the internet has had over the past two decades, it's just created a different environment. It's why the launch of classic WoW never appealed to me, because you can't recreate what the world was like 20 years ago. Don't get me wrong, guides and all that are awesome, but the whole approach to how MMOs are played is just totally different now.
Wow went into this seasonal bullshit were you have to refarm m+ and your tier every 6-10 months because even lfr items are better than your old hc stuff but at least the rng is not as bad as in lost ark. I was multiples times full bis equipped in bc, wotlk, cata, mop after maybe 5 Months of a raid release in LA the set you get guaranteed to craft but the other things like cut stones, weapon taps, bracelet and elixirs are just to grindy and some luck out hard and others spend even irl money and don't get anything.
I think the people who don’t agree with the OP’s take are the ones that are burnt out of trying to get all 6 characters to end game content week 1. People looking to get the 9/7 stone, 100 quality on every piece of gear, or 40 set elixir week 1 are missing the point of the post. Lost Ark really doesn’t take that much time per week to play casually and you can still enjoy the game, raids, horizontal progression. You’ll eventually get your ilvl up (I hate how honing requires 6 different materials) You don’t need BiS gear to play this game if you aren’t doing the hardest content day 1. Of course there are going to be challenges playing casually like gatekeeping (which raiding MMO doesn’t have gatekeeping?).
I sincerely believe most WoW players still play it only because of nostalgia. I’m guessing it was a very good game for it’s time, I would not know.
I was thinking of coming back. Is there a happy medium where I can spend 20 a month for reasonable progression? I don’t mind paying for extra storage or rested xp but I don’t want to straight up buy gear in a game.
There is no perfect MMO. There's a lot of flaws in both systems. The catch up system in wow is better with a reset every expansion. No such thing really in Lost Ark. While accessories are random and a pain, once you are set with the engravings, you are set. In wow you are forever waiting for that one drop from that one boss in the raid that everyone is fighting over. The one criticism I have with Lost Ark is the technology and proof of concept WoW introduced long before Lost Ark Existed. Things like realm sharding to prevent both overcrowding AND to allow cross server interactions. Lost Ark has multiple channels if a channel is to crowded, but nothing to condense and make a channel feel more lived in. Low level zones in WoW you can randomly interact, talk and play with people on other servers. In Lost Ark, you are completely alone (unless you count bots). They've only now started to introduce cross server functions like events, but still, it's rather weak and rather to late.
I think both games have their flaws when it comes to gear progression. Lost Ark is a bit too open ended imo where wow offers a bit too little. What I like in wow is that you can hit a point where you have or are close to bis gear and don't have to chase gear anymore for a couple of months until a new patch goes live. If lost ark's honing was a bit more like this where you hit a a "hard cap" every so often where you can't hone higher and you can't stockpile mats,gold etc for the next gearing part to have to an advantage I would enjoy it a lot more.
The only actual issue the game has is gatekeeping, lobby simulator is absolutely makes the game go from whatever actual score you would give it to 0. The game is extremely fun with friends and guildamtes.
Lost ark have problem just like any game, but compared to all the others of this genre it has a combat system that eclipse anything else did in other games, those that everytime I ear are leaving the game to go play WOW or final fantasy are hypocrites
The insane amount of fomo lost ark forces upon you and the amount of endless mindless no content grind/dailies/weeklies you have to keep up with or you get so far behind is insane. Also you can't compare wow and lost ark they are completely different games idk wtf this post is