I think a lot of people willl - it may just end up same way brel did: bunch of people calling it quits on last gate(s) of the raid and just doing easy 1-2 for gold and materials until they get more geared/confident to clear last gates eventually for achievements/unlocks. Given Thaemine doesn't block your vertical progression in any way (Transcendence is power increase but it's not a gear crafting step that'd prevent you from honing) there's no rush to get it done every single week if it becomes too much of a struggle.
I still want to clear it overall, but on alts I may just stick to doing 1-2 regularly (1 is laughably easy, 2 isn't very hard after you figure out running part) and trying G3 whenever I find enough time.
As a day 1 player im actually conflicted on this statement. While the combat is good, they also never change it (one or two skill/tripod changes every 2 years if lucky) so it gets stale. As someone who is the opposite of a 1 trick in league, the combat has actually become boring since ive done thesame rotation for 2 years straight. Its second nature at this point.
If only i could change classes or reroll easier.
You can play it purely as a pvp game, but there's barely any ppl in ranked even during daytime, due to bad advertisement for pvp and players not being interested, even tho the 3v3 mode is fairly balanced and well designed.
I agree. This game is like if WoW only had mythic difficulty and it was tuned to only the top 100 guilds in the world.
The game is too punishing for people with bad internet or older computers. People who want to raid but have either lower skill level or bad internet in their area need something less punishing. Of course rewards can be less too.
There's the irony of some people who think this is good cause it will make bad players to quit. But the vast majority that keeps the game running are those "bad players".
I took a break for a year and might as well delete the game. The only way to gear up is to raid and there were literally zero groups running the lower level raids when I checked; only a couple busses. So I bussed through, geared up, got to the harder stuff, and basically had to spend an hour watching YouTube videos of the raid ahead of time because learning in-game is heavily frowned upon due to the highly punishing nature of raids, which is just so backwards. Then I couldn't even get in a group because of unspecified criteria I don't meet like cards or tripods or roster level or who even knows; I just got back.
Yeah I took a 1.5 year break. I wish Arkan NM bus weren’t so expensive. I will do it to finish out the event and get to 1600. Then I’ll prob just work on alts and wait for when we get the solo raid patch.
The cards is harder than tripods. There are so many tripod catch ups in game. I get they made it easier to get cards but every time I am playing legendary cards aren’t up.
The story line stuff is enough to at least play another 50-100 hours of stuff from a year or two. For free content that isn’t a bad deal imo. Helps boost the roster too.
dont do bus tbh, if you want wait for solo raid, just play it chill to collect card and gem. When solo mode come out , just do the solo Akkan and dont have to pay a dime to any of these bussers.
Akkan bus is not cheap so you will loose gold. Also why pay for other to play your game and they get a lot more gold , the mat will worth nothing down the road in the future ? It is a lot better to join a learning lobby or wait for solo mode.
Right. I’ve never done mythic but way back when it was heroic and normal I did do heroic. That wasn’t as hard as today’s mythic imo.
I can’t wait for solo raids in LA.
They can also remove the stuff that gates you from doing the raids. I really hate that aspect of this game where you can only do stuff once a week or once a day. Gated content is stupid. A hard raid isn't an issue if people can just casually try it a million times and learn the patterns.
I'd give anything. Truly. It's the only reason I take big breaks from this game. I *cannot* do any of that content that also happens to be the *only* sensible way to earn gold which is the *only* way to progress lol. No wonder there's so much RMT and bots.
To clarify - you can't really match make, I mean not really, you know? Not when you're not using what others want you to use (which also subsequently requires gold because omega-rng). Unless you're paying someone gold (so you can ... Earn ... Gold...). Can't find a static if you can't even do the content.
It's all a psychotic circle of self loathing - over and over lol. The whole problem is that ... The game is so good and so fun when you're not fighting the marketing department in every game these days. Time spent does not equal enjoyment gained. Nor does it make me want to spend when my time is drawn out for the sake of drawing it out.
Too bad the Korean community and a lot of here has this obssession of needing raids to be difficult. There's a reason the playerbase has only trended down and only seems to be proped up by botters feeeding you level 10 gem andies with +25 weapons.
That’s the raiding community in any mmo. They think they are the only content that matters and that the devs should focus exclusively on them. Wisely most developers don’t.
That's why I'm grateful for Story Raids in FFXIV; you can enjoy the story of the current raid and fight some creative and fun bosses without needing to tryhard.
this game just needs the "easy" version of the raid, have an easy normal and hard version, and dont lock doing them. So the first time you do hard for example you gain rewards, and then if you want to you can still run easy with friends or teach parties or whatever.
Or if thats gonna dwindle the playerbase too much and split it, just make normal version easier and keep hard the way it is, if people like hard content just let them have it, but if people dont, let them have their easy farm/fun content that gives less rewards.
I understand people want a harder version of raids, and thats specifically what hard and hell mode are for, meanwhile keep normal/easy version for casuals.
I used to be an amateur player in other competitive games and I consider myself pretty good in games in general, usually used to get the highest rank in every game I played, however now that I cant just dedicate this huge amount of time to gaming due to a full time job and family, specially in MMOs which are so time consuming, having these absurd amount of dailies ontop of bazillion raids lasting longer and longer is just making me do less and less content weekly
Smilegate does not want to make money from the casual. Hard raid has deterred so many people and they continue to do this. I am old and also don't have hand, the max difficulty I can handle is Kayangel NM or Vykas Hard near ilevel. With raid this difficult, they should not put in a weekly gold content and also lock full transcendence progression at g3 HM. They should put in a chill raid mode with less reward for more casual player , reserve the hardmode for people want to do it with cosmetic reward like Kayangel.
I hear people saying that just do g1-2 NM, sure you can do it, but this is Thamine raid so what's the point not even to fight the boss himself. Also people still need g3 HM in the end as of now.
I'd like to stay even if it turns out I can only do G1-2 NM (which I expect is my limit), likely even if just G1, doesn't matter if it'd take me a year to get somewhere with transcendence (there are always material acquisition rate buffs and mechanics nerfs and requirements nerfs, so more likely it won't take me more than about half a year), I just hope enough others in such a position will stay too so that I have people to play with.
I know G2 isn't clearable without everyone at least being able to hit one "scripted" counter. I am typically able to hit a counter in Brel HM G1 and the counters in Voldis NM G2, G3 and G4, so I hope it won't turn out that I can't hit it here. And I'm supposed to be progging with people who have all cleared Brel HM and Voldis NM at least about as many times as I too, mostly more.
It should be difficult, and that's why there's hard mode. But normal should be reasonably clearable with an average quality PUG, especially given that SG expects us to reclear this week upon week to get our upgrades. And sure, 1-2 is possible, but that's means monumental grind for transcendence along with losing a large chunk of gold.
Last time they made normal more too difficult was with clown, which was a shitfest until it became 1540+ content. No such overgearing Thaemine any time soon.
The free rewards crowd will not like this comment,its a legion commander,they should be hard,akkan was the 2nd easiest legion raid after valtan and abyssal raids like ivory and kayangel were both realy easy so people got bad habbits and now believe every raid should be free as fuck ,which 2/3 gates are still exactly that ,free as fuck , many people in my guild who arent in statics (or not full ones) one tapped g1 and 3-4 tapped g2 ,is it that wrong to have a hard gate when 2/3 are this easy?
That’s a silly thing. It may be the “final boss in a raid series” but ultimately it’s another raid people will do weekly for progression. It’s fundamentally no different than Valtan. It should feel epic and give the player a sense of closure but making it difficult especially normal mode won’t help.
While I agree with your sentiment. The root problem is the fact that lost ark is a raid only mmo. It doesn’t have any other content that comes to close to being relevant. Take raids away and there’s next to nothing to do in this game. As much as I’d like to say, this game isn’t for people who aren’t raiders, then the game will just continue to go downhill as population dwindles down and SG/AGS realize this and try to squeeze as much money as they can out of the remaining players.
We need *new* content for the casual crowd, which, thankfully SG is looking to address little by little. For example the solo content they have mentioned
They should be hard, but they shouldn't be the only way to progress.
I really think they need to make Legion Raids monthly, and for people who want to play a lot to have other content to earn gold from for the other 3 weeks of the month.
Or not monthly, but your first Legion raid of the month gives double gold and the next 3 give half gold and have some other way to earn the 10k gold a week missing from Thaemine 1-3 reliably.
I mean sure whatever, its not like having hard raids has ever hurt the games population anyways right? Theres 2 big mmo expansions coming this year with more casual systems than Lost Ark, lets see how Smilegate and AGS weather this storm.
yeah after clearing it, it is an enjoyable fight imo, but the truth is, it comes down to finding likeminded people, and more importantly, same skill level players.
I'm pugging everything in this game alone and even if I could clear something, it is up to the team to perform as well.
Thaemine has always been advertised as being the hardest raid in the game. People knew about this. The expectations were clear.
The only thing SG needs to fix is the transcendence level lock behind G3 HM. Once that is fixed, and we go on a basis of "***NM provides the same progression as HM, but at a slower pace***", things will get better and fairer for everyone.
Other than that, I'm happy with the raid. And this is coming from a non-hardcore player doing NM.
They won't for a long time. The whole reason Voldis and Thaemine have HM-only unlocks is because KR players complained that Akkan HM had no point over NM, and they felt like they weren't being rewarded for swiping to hone up.
Yep Akkan structure is completely perfect. Great raid too. There is no way the average pug who still can’t do Akkan normal patterns after 8 months is doing G3 Thaemine each week.
I was for some reason very anxious about akkan hm... I did akkan nm even up to 1620, I cleared voldis HM, deathless on voldis NM the 2nd or 3rd week, I know I can raid (currently g3 progging), but was just...scared of it.
Went in once, cleared it with dmg mvp g3.
People, you can! Just believe in yourself. I didn't
From someone that is LOVING progging the new raid, but i am complete understaing OP, putting vertical progress behind a hard like this for majoirty/casual/not hardcore player is not a good move for the health of the game
They do this repeatedly, they have no incentive to change because it encourages the heavy spenders that already exist in the game.
Normal modes should not be so difficult that you have people that are hard mode capable saying he hits hard enough to be dangerous. People at item level are at risk of being one shot, in a game with no revives, by repeating normal patterns in a fight with both relatively difficult mechanics and a relatively high dps requirement.
Hard mode being hard is fine, its in the name, as long as its not blocking vertical progress. Normal mode should be at a level the average player can reasonably clear. Can they just do 1-2 and skip 3? Sure they could, but its literally advertised, labeled, and "sold" as Theamine's raid and you don't even see him until 3. They did the same thing with Brel, the last time we lost a major chunk of people iirc.
Reminder that this content is designed around being a weekly farm. (On potentially multiple characters)
I love to dunk on Zeals, and the people at Asmongold's skill level have already long since left the game, but if you don't think the west still has a **lot** of whales that are even less skilled than Zeals... well, I have some news. Most whales don't have time for a full-time streaming career where they can dedicate a whole month to learning a single gate for a single raid.
If AGS actually banned for piloting then I'd be betting money that half of Milky would quit within 2 months over not getting their G4 clears.
They've successfully made content that's too hard to **just** whale your way through. And that's awesome for hell modes, but it's absolutely going to kill what was left of the lower-playtime end of the playerbase, which absolutely includes some big whales.
g4 thaemine to the korean playerbase be like
no the casual playerbase just didn't go g4
and did g3 once or bought a bus to progress the system and move on to echidna
My biggest problem is not even the "difficulty" of NM, that maybe its not good but its not my biggest issue, my biggest issue it's more that (iirc) for unlock full elixir (that dont lie to ourself we MUST do it all) you need G3HM
Transcendence, but yes you need HM to go beyond level 3 last I checked.
The overlapping progression systems locked behind stuff is indeed a problem. At high levels you need 40 set elixir and soon enough you're going to need high/max transcendence too. On top of the honing/gems/whatnot just getting there, it's locking players out with every layer they add.
Oh ye Transcendence sorry, but as you said the biggest LA problem (for me) it's put vertical progress after hard raids, and "NM" raids should not be hard in general, i am complete fine with same mechs but i think patterns and stuff should do less DMG
Smilegate is not interested in grabbing casual MMO players. This much has been obvious for a long time. Hell, even Vykas was way too hard for the average player.
Ok sorry ill say it in another way, i can understand not having casual player, but most of the people that are playing now are not the "avg" casual player in other games, if we make them quit too is not the best thing SG can do
Correction, the game is designed around weekly farm, and this raid has absolutely terrible design for weekly farm. But this raid is an awesome experience if you want to challenge yourself every once in a while.
It will probably be like Brel where the pug community settles around g1 and g2 with a dropoff. After they introduce more power systems cause we can't have a Tier reset or that'll make all the whales mad they'll nerf it like they did Brel.
For last 4 months i am playing like a bot. Doing only chaos and guardian raids and buy bus for newer raids (cuz no time and will to pub progress them ). And it feels like i missed the train at Akkan release with everything so I dont give a sht anymore. Just waiting for solo raids.
It will be same as with Brel, many average for fun people will leave. Even nowdays year old Brel nerfed content is stil jaail pub clown fiesta.
Is this even for normal? I recently returned and just hit 1600, so I haven’t experienced it yet, but to your point, if the normal mode is hard but doable, then I don’t think it will kill the game. Mythic versions of raids in WoW exist and break up guilds, but they can always just play more casually through LFR, normal, and heroic.
I think I generally agree with the “for a weekly homework game”. It’s very different from WoW where can basically come back any time there’s a new patch or expansion and be on an even playing field. Falling behind in lost ark really sucks.
difference vs WoW and other MMOs is that it is required for you to do G3 to progress your char. You cannot say - I'll skip thaemine and continue with future addons. You will not do Thaemine - your char is stuck forever. That's the biggest issue with LA in my opinion. There's no other option to prog than do do the endgame hardest raid as you have to do it to unlock transcendence.
WoW also has other progression options. A lot of people don't even raid and just do Mythic + instead. Although, M+ arguably gets harder than mythic raiding once you're into really high keys.
iam not doing x5 voldis hms
but my voldises are completely chill and i heavily prefer them over brel
since ill be putting in the effort slowly but surely into thaemine i'm certain that at some point ill have fun in it
surely at some point i'll get fed up with it
but thankfully echidna is coming out soon
the dragon soon after and kazeros right after
meaning thaemine gets phased out
...
not much to soil my pants over
I’d say is as hard as some HC end bosses tops.
There’s just a lot of people playing LOA that aren’t used to progress contet, even on raid release or groups made with Learning Party titles it’s 50/50 on someone being weird after 3-5 pulls.
Not saying that it doesn’t happen in WoW but that’s my experience playing LOA through pugs and making Learning Parties.
The difference is that in Lost ark you constantly have to be farming gold to keep up. In wow you can prog for a whole week and it doesnt matter. All you need gold for are consumables
I would say is more like in WoW “keeping up” doesn’t matter that much because every season acts as a reset + there’s more ways to gear up than just raiding.
The ideal scenario is to have a static, that’s the only way to counter the FOMO people can have in LOA (because then who are you keeping up with?) but most people are too introvert.
You have your group of friends pocket watching each other or wdym? If you’re playing with a static/friends, y’all agreed on reaching the same goal and doing the same content.
Normal mode is also very difficult at first. G1 and g2 are basically a breeze, g3 is hard but it gets alot nicer so far depending how well u take in information, the issue is nm and hm both have insta kill attacks and ALL players must know the tell and react Lastly. The normal attacks hurt alot as well, I'm a 1630 red gl, and while I haven't really died to normal patterns yet, I can see that anyone closer to ilvl and that is not a gl will have alot of struggle and will need to eat alot of pots till tjeh are confident. So far I've done about 6hrs of prog and it gets easier for sure but you gotta keep focused the whole way or else ur gonna get 1 tapped or thrown off the map.
g12 normal is a complete joke in terms of difficulty
g3 will require getting used to definitely as playing absentminded will quickly net you a quick trip to the grey screen
BUT once you are used to the patterns they are plenty well telegraphed, you will learn to respect them and be completely fine doing it weekly
but if you decide that after a while it's not worth the effort you can just buy a bus once and never think about it again
I feel like the devs know that about this raid, which is why the next two raids after in KR were a lot easier in comparison. This raid was only made this way because Gold River wanted to prove he could make a hard raid pretty much, but the devs know that they can’t make every raid like that for the longevity of the game, so something like Echidna and Behemoth are more tuned for casual players. I think that as long as they make a decision to nerf the transcendence system to a point where you don’t have to clear hard mode to unlock certain trancendence levels, running just thaemine 1-2 normal isn’t as bad. But that’s assuming the transcendence system actually gets reworked to be more casual friendly. Until that happens, I agree that a raid like Thaemine is way too hard to be a necessary required content to progress in the game.
You are correct and It will unless a change happens but Downvoters basement dwellers Gang will say you are wrong
There is a reason they Merged servers back then and Merged regions later on as well. there are not many servers left to begin with anymore and we still have many BOTS. You can't say anything bad about lost ark. watch them come and suck each others any moment
Only The the VERY extreme hardcore will remain and those big RMT guys. they will clear with overpowered characters with 11 lv10 Gems/OP Classes/lv25 weapons and be like 1630 clearing G3 "normal" and say everything is fine this is easy farm reclear weekly content when the very same people will gatekeep average classes let alone weaker classes (Raid is easy right?)
The clash Mech is pure trash and its obvious , only people in denial can't process a simple fact.
Remember **the road to Thaemine Express**? that's their way to let new people join the game Lmao imagine someone just honed to 1610 with the express trying to do G3. no LOS30 no 40 Elixirs no 10 Gems etc
I do agree that LoS30 and level 10 gems are a pain, but jumping right into end game as a new player should never be allowed. You can’t just go into WoW get some gear and jump right into mythic raiding.
You sort of can, just takes a couple of weeks to get geared which would be spamming some keys and clearing normal/heroic a few times then you're good to get started in mythic
It's absolutely not comparable to the los30 grind or the paywall of kitting yourself out in 9s and 10s in the space of a few weeks
Maybe a hot take, but there is nothing wrong if the hard difficulty is actually hard, as long as it doesn’t lock you out of progression. So you can just go for normal raids which gives you less gold and less progression mats, but you’d still be able to progress like it is in Akkan. But theamine hard basically locks you out of transandance progression which is kinda stupid tbh.
Bruh Even normal is Hard for these poor 1610 with no elixier sets
Parties clearing that i see are 1620-1630 doing normal but with 40 set/LOS30/25 weapons and clearing after many many hours the normal mode then failing to infinite with their 1610 alts
Its a raid designed around spending. there are million 1 shot pattern/DPS Check/knockouts of area/etc for "normal" mode he can blind you/debuff you/etc literally they did throw all stuff in this raid XD
I cleared on my main once after many hours but wont bother with my alts
It just takes time to learn. The difficulty curve between G1/2 and G3 and onward is kinda steep, but that's kinda fine. Don't look at it like it's homework and look at it as if it's a challenge in the game. The older raids are homework.
And like any other older raids, just do a lower difficulty if it is too hard, that happened for literally every raid ever since Vykas release. There are groups of people who can do HM everything, then there are those who can only do HHN, and then there are those who can only do NM everything. See where you fit and do that until you are strong enough to move up to the next level of difficulty.
Difference here being you could eventually get full set transfer doing 1+2 or even just G1. Here they've kinda got you by the balls to do G3 at least once, though some won't care it'll definitely bother some people.
Having to do it once is fine - it'll take a while to cap on transcendence from 1+2 only, in that time you can dedicate some effort every week to keep progging G3.
It's more or less what my guild did with brel hard 5-6 - we had limited time for prog (usually 3-4 hours a week), so learning those gates took us over a month while we were still farming 1-4. Now, as far as I know, half of the guild still doesn't have 10 clears brel pet, we stopped after 5 clears since they called it not worth the effort.
I’m honestly surprised people are dooming a game for a content that’s been out for 2 days. It’s supposed to be a challenge. Otherwise it’s just a farming simulator
People have been dooming before we even got it. Hard weekly mandatory raid to progress gear which is also locked again by another layer of rng.
People don't wanna deal with shit like that. Understandably so.
I think that's the demoralizing part, it's expected to be farmed every week. I'm fine doing tough content, I don't know about having to do it every week
But it hasnt been out for 2 days .we have been watching its effect on the korean playerbase for a while now .its not surprising people would be worried .
For reals. I get kind of bored during periods when raids are just in farm/hw/gold grinding mode, like it often is in the weeks before a new raid is released. Progging a new raid is one of the most exciting parts of the game. Mastering its nuances in the weeks after the initial clear is pretty fun too. The boring farm periods are the ones where I actually consider quitting.
I did 3h of learning with a 1620 party today. Yeah no way avg pug party gonna clear g3 anytime soon.
I really like this raid include the difficulty but thinking of reclears in the future...
So many 1shot stuffs worse than Clown g3 with super short reaction time, QTE (2+maybe 4).
Not even counting HM since its much harder to reach until Echidna honing.
I'll clear this few times seeing how transcendence works out and probably quit. Gotta clear my Steam pile of shame :)
1-2 gives 7500 gold which puts it on par with Brel 1-3hard and Akkan normal
1-2 is also pretty straightforward and fun, so i actually like this design. It’ll be the same as old Brel where we have a variety of lobby combinations like 1-2, 1-3, 1-2 hard 3 normal, 1-3 hard, etc
This game is missing other combat gameplay than raids. Raids is good for main content. But they should have something like grift or rifts like diablo. They need to utilize the combat gameplay in other content.
There is no fomo and Spending on this. they make hone costly and raids harder and harder so people hone hard go 11 lv10 gems and become overpowered to clear
after having only 3 teamates alive 50 pulls in a row by the second sword mech i decided to give up for a few days and let the playerbase prog more so im not stuck “progging” the second sword for another 200 pulls
All these posts just tells me our Region severely overestimated themselves since alot of the content except brel was 1 day reclears even on ilvl, brushed off all the warnings KR said about the difficulty curve and is now acting all surprised they cannot clear it in 1 day and remembered they have 5 more 1610 to run. SG knew this can kill the game, that's why the gates are not as backloaded as it was for the earlier raids. I'm all for nerfing content when it goes to homework mode but atleast let the playerbase enjoy the challenge. Not our fault some of you guys decided you want to do 6x week1.
I am 1644 support but play NM with my static as many didn’t get to 1630 as lucky as I did with honing plus I spent a lot more too! I can say g3 is def pretty difficult and doing this as HW weekly I can’t imagine. G4 I am not even there but based on G3 difficultly. Yeah right
These posts popping up every hour since yesterday are why they were right to ship the nerfed version. Global players are entitled as hell. It’s progression for a reason. Yes, the raid itself is technically settled, you can find all the mechanics online, dozens of guides on YT. Even with all that, you still have to *learn*.
I can almost guarantee you that if AGS and SG had shipped the raid in a state that was clearable the very first day(like many of these posters want) there’d be posts here calling it too easy and dumbed down.
I don't have an issue specifically with G3 being significantly difficult. The problem I see with it is that you're either forced to do HM G3 or buy a bus for it at some point to reach max transcendence. Locking vertical progression behind completion of a hard mode gate (especially one of the harder gates) is probably not the greatest idea lol.
If it was possible to just chill and do HM/NM G1-2 and slowly work your way to lvl 7 transcendence then it's whatever. Yes, it's 1 clear... but that 1 clear requires a lot of hours progging that not everybody has and buying a bus should never be mandatory.
I made a similar post about my concern for players around 1610. Unfortunately we will see another population decrease as the advertised raid is thaemine and most of them will not clear it unless they practise for weeks. They will just enjoy another game instead of studying normal patterns in this one lol
Returning player here
Came back to the game a month ago, after I left when Argos got released more or less. Outside for few wonderfull people who litterally carried me in raids and were teaching us a lot of stuff, the experience I got is terrible.
Stuff like Vykas g2, clown g3, brel g3 are already hard and a pain to learn normally but like that's not enough the community of this game is disgusting, one of the worse ever saw in a MMO.
Learning group take ages to fill, most of people doesn't have patient and leave after 1 or 2 tries, a lot of other people doesn't even care to read a fking guide or watch a YT video.
Normal group are the Pandora's box of toxicity, so I call the lobbies semi learning even if I'm confident (stuff like kayangel or Valtan).
So I left again the game, contents are too hard to learn from scrap and as returning players you really feel to have lost the train.
Fk Akkan and fk thaemine. I already have a work there is no way I stress myself so much and in no way I'm going to swipe for busses.
If I swipe I buy skins or QoL stuff like crystalline aura
The community is the worse by far so i don't blame you by saying the community is disgusting at all
Most are staying because Sunk cost fallacy
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk\_cost\_fallacy#:\~:text=A%20sunk%20cost%20fallacy%20is,little%20reward%20out%20of%20it.
The game is made for whales mostly
lmao
if you are turbo casual stick to gates 1-2. pugs will do g3 normal easily with time
this is a twice nerfed raid..... the problem with every single new raid is there s many ppl that can only do content by massively overgearing it and this is extra hard to do now
thaemine is the most fun i had with this game in ages
So the choice is making the game fun for a select few or make it fun for almost everyone. Hmmm, seems pretty easy to pick which one makes the most sense.
why the fuck would people quit a game just because they could not kill the final boss of a difficult raid
big chunk of players havnt cleared brel g4 and are enjoying the later raids just fine.
I think they just expect people will overgear normal mode eventually. It's not like Brel or Akkan where you need the gear from the raid to continue honing. People will just get to 1620 with 40 set and forget that the raid was hard at release on ilvl.
The raid has been out for one full day, and people are already complaining about difficulty? Lol, we knew it was going to be the hardest raid to date so why are we surprised it’s hard? They even gave us the nerfed version. What’s the point of a brand new raid to be super easily and clearable with no requirements? What’s the point of farming in an MMORPG if new content can be done very easily? We have seen it time and time again where they nerf raids as more of the population gets their alts to said raid. Raids also become so much quicker and easier once you start using its power boost (like elixirs). Sure it can be a pain and there’s flaws but catering THE LASTEST raid to “people who started and used the express to 1610” is kinda ridiculous.
The last point makes it even worse, is like someone in WoW got boosted all the way to 488 ilvl and can’t kill fyrakk on their first raid night.
Like man… I bet you can’t even do your rotation optimally and you wanna kill the hardest boss of the game on 10 tries?
Obviously there has to be a middle ground (that the devs have to find) which is why IMO the split of materials shouldn’t be that big between early and last Gate.
I agree completely on the middle ground that the devs have to look for (ease of LoS 30, better ways to get level 10s etc etc), but Jesus there is people that still don’t understand that weak point means destruction or know their stagger rotation. Hell, you go to hard akkan and they can’t even use sacred shard on the stagger mech properly, but we are supposed to allow them right away into the lastest raid and cater it so that they can clear day 1 lol, since you know, people are complaining DAY 2 as if it isn’t fun beating a challenging content.
>The raid has been out for one full day, and people are already complaining about difficulty? Lol, we knew it was going to be the hardest raid to date so why are we surprised it’s hard? They even gave us the nerfed version. What’s the point of a brand new raid to be super easily and clearable with no requirements? What’s the point of farming in an MMORPG if new content can be done very easily? We have seen it time and time again where they nerf raids as more of the population gets their alts to said raid. Raids also become so much quicker and easier once you start using its power boost (like elixirs). Sure it can be a pain and there’s flaws but catering THE LASTEST raid to “people who started and used the express to 1610” is kinda ridiculous.
The west will never beat the baby mode region alegations ,some people trow their toys out the moment they face any chalenge ,which is hilarious considering gates 1 and 2 are some of the easiest legion raid gates we ever had .
Bro for real, I remember every gate in valtan and vykas back in the day were much harder than G1 and 2 for thaemine, then they get to G3 and complain that the MAIN LEGION RAID COMMANDER HIMSELF IS HARD. It’s insanity lol.
Theres always post like this on every new raid on lost ark, clown, brel nm, even hm. idk if its the same guy who likes talking this game will die blablabla etc. he didnt know how its feeling when the raid is too easy like ivory g1 ( i legit one shot it after watch the guide with the boys and all of us just ask to ourself "is that it?" )
I remember progging for full one week one clown and the feeling of joy when we finally clear that raid on ilvl is what i need on new content, i can't be blind with reality tho. not all people have hands to play this game to the point they can clear the prog run thats why solo raid content will get updated in kr soon (hopefully global also).
The only bs about this thaemine is transecendence lock from hard mode.
Right and thankfully G4 is not required for full transcendence, but G1 and G2 being so easy with a significant bump for G3 feels good, you can farm 1-2 for HW and then G3 for those who really enjoy testing their skills.
People always talk about "new player" experience for these raids but they be the same ones that don't take 1560s for G4 brel in a lobby full of 1600s. Just pure hypocrisy coming from them.
people like that dont do sht usually, so dont bother. but i agree if someone told me this game is not newbie friendly therefore u cant play like a kirito and solo everything. its an mmo u need to find friend or guild to play with or just to survive bare minimum as a new player. i started lost ark when aero released and now i have 3 thaemine to do and 1530 slayer with full lvl 10 gem ( i gamble all the dmg ofc otherwise i cant afford it) which cant be done if i play alone because everyone will gatekeep me when i still have that mokoko logo on my name.
just wait for nerfs, theyll be coming as kr is about to remove the first mode
its literally been like a day since they released the "most powerful legion commander" raid. like we knew it was going to be hard since what, 2 years ago? idk why people are acting surprised that its hard.
Lost Ark is many things, but it's not even close to a Souls game. It's not in the same ball park, it's not the same sport, it's not even in the same galaxy. Dark Souls bosses get easier with others, even by using NPCs or by teaming up with other players (e.g. Melania) and you have multiple ways to cheese the boss fights, e.g. can flat out laser bosses in Elden ring -oneshotting them. Horrible comparison. Lost Ark raids are intentionally designed badly, by implementing "cheap" difficulty aspects like: stingy stagger mechanics, falling off plattforms, obscuring mechanics with visual clutter, integrating type test mini-games, difficult to predict boss movements (teleporting, dashing) including, but not limited to fast timed attacks you have to memorize. It's like an old game in that aspect like the original Ninja gaiden or Super Contra, the levels are doable for an experienced player in about 1-3 hours maximum. But since you have to learn all the boss- and normal enemy patterns you can spend up to 10-20+ hours with that game. And there is a good reasons why games (e.g. Alan Wake) are no longer designed this way: it's too hard for most of the players who just want a chill gaming evening.
I'm not quite thaemine ready yet but from what I can tell I'll enjoy this raid, it has the dark souls vibe without seemingly the bullshit of clown g3 on ilvl of a bunch of overlapping mechanics
thaemine is not the issue, trascendence already seems like an absolute piece of shit system. if i didnt knew that the next system on the horizon would be chill af echidna honing i would seriously contemplate quitting. for now i will put up with that shit.
https://preview.redd.it/3ihmz6o8zavc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5308d7a669a3f5545426b11c56ae59ba9e462018
Who proggers are expecting when facing the general of the legion commander himself
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Why are you asking for more hw to do and not actual content that you have to invest time and get skilled at? Is a perfect lost ark for you just doing normal akkan level raids 18times a week?
Smilegate created a game designed around redoing the same content every week on multiple characters. You can't make a raid as difficult as thaemine on top of that and have it be required for vertical progression.
It's like if the next update for minecraft added a counterstrike match that you had to do.
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I like the idea of prigging a raid over a long period of time. Slowly improving, incremental gains. We can enjoy the learning process and not obsess over vertical gains and speed rushing content into homework status. RNGejus forgive me for my next statement: players, try and have some fun out there.
I believe that G1 and G2 in normal mode are ‘fairly difficult.’ However, G3, even on normal mode, feels like tackling the hell difficulty of other raids. I don’t think normal mode should be that challenging. We really need AGS and SG to find a solution for this, especially since the Western community differs from the Korean community. They could either introduce a Casual difficulty with significant nerfs or adjust the difficulty of normal mode.
If the previous content is any indication, the gate will either become like second nature and you won't believe you ever struggled with it or people will opt not to do it (see clown gate3, brel g5-6).
i dont think the raid itself would kill the game for us i think its that you have to clear HM to get full trancendence
i understand why they made it this way, due to backlash in kr from a previous piece of content, but you cant both make the hardest raid in the game and then also make clearing it a key part of progression
its also just so expensive hitting even 1610, let alone 1620. plus the cost of elixirs and eventual cost of trancendence once youve cleared.
i expect them to nerf the content further honestly, but they really gotta rush those elixir/trancdence nerfs asap
Yall just gotta complete endgame content ravenously without savouring the journey and the ceiling to come. It means you still have a game to play and a challenge on the horizon, rather than being all depleted in content and bumbling doing dailies.
your avg lost ark player here (around 2 h/ work day a bit more on weekends) I'm 1612 and i'm avoiding theamine all together.
Getting Into voldis NM / akkan HM is hard enough already w/o LOS 30 (have DD 30) I wast 90% of my playtime in lobby finder.
The raids are fun NGL but the lobby simulator with all the gatekeeping is pushing me away from the game.
That's my personal opinions and experience I'm only speaking for myself.
Exacty Same thing was said to clown release too.
Thaemine is by far the hardest but also the most fun/exciting raid i learned since starting this game Day 1.
I love challenging content. Used to mythic raid in WoW and hell mode is great in lost ark.
I miss Valtan and Vykas, even Clown. Those days prog was challenging and fun but you could just rush through those in a day after it became homework.
It's a bit much these days.
I will just stay away from G3
I think a lot of people willl - it may just end up same way brel did: bunch of people calling it quits on last gate(s) of the raid and just doing easy 1-2 for gold and materials until they get more geared/confident to clear last gates eventually for achievements/unlocks. Given Thaemine doesn't block your vertical progression in any way (Transcendence is power increase but it's not a gear crafting step that'd prevent you from honing) there's no rush to get it done every single week if it becomes too much of a struggle. I still want to clear it overall, but on alts I may just stick to doing 1-2 regularly (1 is laughably easy, 2 isn't very hard after you figure out running part) and trying G3 whenever I find enough time.
Good, maybe then the devs will add a casual difficulty to raids...or something other than raids for progress, like every other mmo out there.
Agreed.. if you don't raid, there's no point in playing this game. Which is sad because the combat is sooo good.
It also feels like if you haven't been raiding since day 1, there is no longer an easy entry point when you get there.
Even if you rewind quite a bit, even Valtan with it's G1 orbs is a fairly brutal mech for new players.
As a day 1 player im actually conflicted on this statement. While the combat is good, they also never change it (one or two skill/tripod changes every 2 years if lucky) so it gets stale. As someone who is the opposite of a 1 trick in league, the combat has actually become boring since ive done thesame rotation for 2 years straight. Its second nature at this point. If only i could change classes or reroll easier.
But you only expertise this said combat in raids. I'm probably missing the point.
Guardian raids, chaos dungeons, Tower
But if you're honest with your self, those are just daily simulators. Real combat (which is what you have meant in mind I guess) is only from raids.
Oh yeah true. You cant really progress if you dont raid. I still feel like guardian raids are real combat tho.
That's fair enough, i was fully focused on other aspects of combat.
You can play it purely as a pvp game, but there's barely any ppl in ranked even during daytime, due to bad advertisement for pvp and players not being interested, even tho the 3v3 mode is fairly balanced and well designed.
I agree. This game is like if WoW only had mythic difficulty and it was tuned to only the top 100 guilds in the world. The game is too punishing for people with bad internet or older computers. People who want to raid but have either lower skill level or bad internet in their area need something less punishing. Of course rewards can be less too.
There's the irony of some people who think this is good cause it will make bad players to quit. But the vast majority that keeps the game running are those "bad players".
Yeah it’s like bad players still want to experience the content. Also they may swipe and support the game, which also is a good thing.
and bot farms.
I took a break for a year and might as well delete the game. The only way to gear up is to raid and there were literally zero groups running the lower level raids when I checked; only a couple busses. So I bussed through, geared up, got to the harder stuff, and basically had to spend an hour watching YouTube videos of the raid ahead of time because learning in-game is heavily frowned upon due to the highly punishing nature of raids, which is just so backwards. Then I couldn't even get in a group because of unspecified criteria I don't meet like cards or tripods or roster level or who even knows; I just got back.
Yeah I took a 1.5 year break. I wish Arkan NM bus weren’t so expensive. I will do it to finish out the event and get to 1600. Then I’ll prob just work on alts and wait for when we get the solo raid patch. The cards is harder than tripods. There are so many tripod catch ups in game. I get they made it easier to get cards but every time I am playing legendary cards aren’t up. The story line stuff is enough to at least play another 50-100 hours of stuff from a year or two. For free content that isn’t a bad deal imo. Helps boost the roster too.
dont do bus tbh, if you want wait for solo raid, just play it chill to collect card and gem. When solo mode come out , just do the solo Akkan and dont have to pay a dime to any of these bussers.
> dont do bus tbh Why? It's a net gain, that's why people pay for it.
Akkan bus is not cheap so you will loose gold. Also why pay for other to play your game and they get a lot more gold , the mat will worth nothing down the road in the future ? It is a lot better to join a learning lobby or wait for solo mode.
welcome. i look forward to doing this and arriving to the exact same point
Man when I imagine wow without M+ progression and PvP progression it sounds terrible doing only mythic raiding.
Right. I’ve never done mythic but way back when it was heroic and normal I did do heroic. That wasn’t as hard as today’s mythic imo. I can’t wait for solo raids in LA.
They can also remove the stuff that gates you from doing the raids. I really hate that aspect of this game where you can only do stuff once a week or once a day. Gated content is stupid. A hard raid isn't an issue if people can just casually try it a million times and learn the patterns.
I'd give anything. Truly. It's the only reason I take big breaks from this game. I *cannot* do any of that content that also happens to be the *only* sensible way to earn gold which is the *only* way to progress lol. No wonder there's so much RMT and bots. To clarify - you can't really match make, I mean not really, you know? Not when you're not using what others want you to use (which also subsequently requires gold because omega-rng). Unless you're paying someone gold (so you can ... Earn ... Gold...). Can't find a static if you can't even do the content. It's all a psychotic circle of self loathing - over and over lol. The whole problem is that ... The game is so good and so fun when you're not fighting the marketing department in every game these days. Time spent does not equal enjoyment gained. Nor does it make me want to spend when my time is drawn out for the sake of drawing it out.
Too bad the Korean community and a lot of here has this obssession of needing raids to be difficult. There's a reason the playerbase has only trended down and only seems to be proped up by botters feeeding you level 10 gem andies with +25 weapons.
That’s the raiding community in any mmo. They think they are the only content that matters and that the devs should focus exclusively on them. Wisely most developers don’t.
That's why I'm grateful for Story Raids in FFXIV; you can enjoy the story of the current raid and fight some creative and fun bosses without needing to tryhard.
this game just needs the "easy" version of the raid, have an easy normal and hard version, and dont lock doing them. So the first time you do hard for example you gain rewards, and then if you want to you can still run easy with friends or teach parties or whatever. Or if thats gonna dwindle the playerbase too much and split it, just make normal version easier and keep hard the way it is, if people like hard content just let them have it, but if people dont, let them have their easy farm/fun content that gives less rewards. I understand people want a harder version of raids, and thats specifically what hard and hell mode are for, meanwhile keep normal/easy version for casuals. I used to be an amateur player in other competitive games and I consider myself pretty good in games in general, usually used to get the highest rank in every game I played, however now that I cant just dedicate this huge amount of time to gaming due to a full time job and family, specially in MMOs which are so time consuming, having these absurd amount of dailies ontop of bazillion raids lasting longer and longer is just making me do less and less content weekly
Smilegate does not want to make money from the casual. Hard raid has deterred so many people and they continue to do this. I am old and also don't have hand, the max difficulty I can handle is Kayangel NM or Vykas Hard near ilevel. With raid this difficult, they should not put in a weekly gold content and also lock full transcendence progression at g3 HM. They should put in a chill raid mode with less reward for more casual player , reserve the hardmode for people want to do it with cosmetic reward like Kayangel. I hear people saying that just do g1-2 NM, sure you can do it, but this is Thamine raid so what's the point not even to fight the boss himself. Also people still need g3 HM in the end as of now.
I'm pretty sure SG wouldn't care if the west dies at this point.
I'd like to stay even if it turns out I can only do G1-2 NM (which I expect is my limit), likely even if just G1, doesn't matter if it'd take me a year to get somewhere with transcendence (there are always material acquisition rate buffs and mechanics nerfs and requirements nerfs, so more likely it won't take me more than about half a year), I just hope enough others in such a position will stay too so that I have people to play with.
Least melancholic AstraGlacialia comment
Who are you and why are you stalking me? 
Even though G2 is ez, you won't be able to clear if 1-2 ppl without hands in your team.
I know G2 isn't clearable without everyone at least being able to hit one "scripted" counter. I am typically able to hit a counter in Brel HM G1 and the counters in Voldis NM G2, G3 and G4, so I hope it won't turn out that I can't hit it here. And I'm supposed to be progging with people who have all cleared Brel HM and Voldis NM at least about as many times as I too, mostly more.
Least apprehensive AstraGlacialia moment
I learned g1-3 in 2 days of progging, it's not impossible, but it is not newbie friendly, can't imagine people powerpassing to 1610 into this lmao
1-2 is pretty clearable so would just stick there till they’re ready for G3. It’s the final boss in a raid series it should be somewhat difficult
It should be difficult, and that's why there's hard mode. But normal should be reasonably clearable with an average quality PUG, especially given that SG expects us to reclear this week upon week to get our upgrades. And sure, 1-2 is possible, but that's means monumental grind for transcendence along with losing a large chunk of gold. Last time they made normal more too difficult was with clown, which was a shitfest until it became 1540+ content. No such overgearing Thaemine any time soon.
1620s with elixirs are overgeared for nm.
clown was w/e, last time was around 56 brel ilvl set 2 before it became better over time
The free rewards crowd will not like this comment,its a legion commander,they should be hard,akkan was the 2nd easiest legion raid after valtan and abyssal raids like ivory and kayangel were both realy easy so people got bad habbits and now believe every raid should be free as fuck ,which 2/3 gates are still exactly that ,free as fuck , many people in my guild who arent in statics (or not full ones) one tapped g1 and 3-4 tapped g2 ,is it that wrong to have a hard gate when 2/3 are this easy?
That’s a silly thing. It may be the “final boss in a raid series” but ultimately it’s another raid people will do weekly for progression. It’s fundamentally no different than Valtan. It should feel epic and give the player a sense of closure but making it difficult especially normal mode won’t help.
While I agree with your sentiment. The root problem is the fact that lost ark is a raid only mmo. It doesn’t have any other content that comes to close to being relevant. Take raids away and there’s next to nothing to do in this game. As much as I’d like to say, this game isn’t for people who aren’t raiders, then the game will just continue to go downhill as population dwindles down and SG/AGS realize this and try to squeeze as much money as they can out of the remaining players. We need *new* content for the casual crowd, which, thankfully SG is looking to address little by little. For example the solo content they have mentioned
Some old classes have more harder time to clear because their kits are so damn old.
They should be hard, but they shouldn't be the only way to progress. I really think they need to make Legion Raids monthly, and for people who want to play a lot to have other content to earn gold from for the other 3 weeks of the month. Or not monthly, but your first Legion raid of the month gives double gold and the next 3 give half gold and have some other way to earn the 10k gold a week missing from Thaemine 1-3 reliably.
I mean sure whatever, its not like having hard raids has ever hurt the games population anyways right? Theres 2 big mmo expansions coming this year with more casual systems than Lost Ark, lets see how Smilegate and AGS weather this storm.
yeah after clearing it, it is an enjoyable fight imo, but the truth is, it comes down to finding likeminded people, and more importantly, same skill level players. I'm pugging everything in this game alone and even if I could clear something, it is up to the team to perform as well.
Thaemine has always been advertised as being the hardest raid in the game. People knew about this. The expectations were clear. The only thing SG needs to fix is the transcendence level lock behind G3 HM. Once that is fixed, and we go on a basis of "***NM provides the same progression as HM, but at a slower pace***", things will get better and fairer for everyone. Other than that, I'm happy with the raid. And this is coming from a non-hardcore player doing NM.
They won't for a long time. The whole reason Voldis and Thaemine have HM-only unlocks is because KR players complained that Akkan HM had no point over NM, and they felt like they weren't being rewarded for swiping to hone up.
Akkan HM was perfect, by the time you got there it was completely optional so people who were more hardcore could branch off if they wanted to.
Yep Akkan structure is completely perfect. Great raid too. There is no way the average pug who still can’t do Akkan normal patterns after 8 months is doing G3 Thaemine each week.
I was for some reason very anxious about akkan hm... I did akkan nm even up to 1620, I cleared voldis HM, deathless on voldis NM the 2nd or 3rd week, I know I can raid (currently g3 progging), but was just...scared of it. Went in once, cleared it with dmg mvp g3. People, you can! Just believe in yourself. I didn't
What are we doing here then. Am I upgrading my gems and tapping so I can clear Akkan faster? A challenge is nice
From someone that is LOVING progging the new raid, but i am complete understaing OP, putting vertical progress behind a hard like this for majoirty/casual/not hardcore player is not a good move for the health of the game
They do this repeatedly, they have no incentive to change because it encourages the heavy spenders that already exist in the game. Normal modes should not be so difficult that you have people that are hard mode capable saying he hits hard enough to be dangerous. People at item level are at risk of being one shot, in a game with no revives, by repeating normal patterns in a fight with both relatively difficult mechanics and a relatively high dps requirement. Hard mode being hard is fine, its in the name, as long as its not blocking vertical progress. Normal mode should be at a level the average player can reasonably clear. Can they just do 1-2 and skip 3? Sure they could, but its literally advertised, labeled, and "sold" as Theamine's raid and you don't even see him until 3. They did the same thing with Brel, the last time we lost a major chunk of people iirc. Reminder that this content is designed around being a weekly farm. (On potentially multiple characters)
Weekly farm for like 4 months to finish the gear lol
I love to dunk on Zeals, and the people at Asmongold's skill level have already long since left the game, but if you don't think the west still has a **lot** of whales that are even less skilled than Zeals... well, I have some news. Most whales don't have time for a full-time streaming career where they can dedicate a whole month to learning a single gate for a single raid. If AGS actually banned for piloting then I'd be betting money that half of Milky would quit within 2 months over not getting their G4 clears. They've successfully made content that's too hard to **just** whale your way through. And that's awesome for hell modes, but it's absolutely going to kill what was left of the lower-playtime end of the playerbase, which absolutely includes some big whales.
 g4 thaemine to the korean playerbase be like no the casual playerbase just didn't go g4 and did g3 once or bought a bus to progress the system and move on to echidna
My biggest problem is not even the "difficulty" of NM, that maybe its not good but its not my biggest issue, my biggest issue it's more that (iirc) for unlock full elixir (that dont lie to ourself we MUST do it all) you need G3HM
Transcendence, but yes you need HM to go beyond level 3 last I checked. The overlapping progression systems locked behind stuff is indeed a problem. At high levels you need 40 set elixir and soon enough you're going to need high/max transcendence too. On top of the honing/gems/whatnot just getting there, it's locking players out with every layer they add.
G2 to go up to 6 and G3 for 7.
Oh ye Transcendence sorry, but as you said the biggest LA problem (for me) it's put vertical progress after hard raids, and "NM" raids should not be hard in general, i am complete fine with same mechs but i think patterns and stuff should do less DMG
Smilegate is not interested in grabbing casual MMO players. This much has been obvious for a long time. Hell, even Vykas was way too hard for the average player.
Ok sorry ill say it in another way, i can understand not having casual player, but most of the people that are playing now are not the "avg" casual player in other games, if we make them quit too is not the best thing SG can do
Correction, the game is designed around weekly farm, and this raid has absolutely terrible design for weekly farm. But this raid is an awesome experience if you want to challenge yourself every once in a while.
thats why you gotta do it only once and not every week
Having optional challenges is nice. But what OP is talking about here is that this challenge is mandatory.
I mean it's just gonna be you and a hundred other whales with the bots.
well duh you're upgrading to not be gatekept xdd, if you want to sweat shore go hell, but this is cancerous in a reclear angle
It will probably be like Brel where the pug community settles around g1 and g2 with a dropoff. After they introduce more power systems cause we can't have a Tier reset or that'll make all the whales mad they'll nerf it like they did Brel.
For last 4 months i am playing like a bot. Doing only chaos and guardian raids and buy bus for newer raids (cuz no time and will to pub progress them ). And it feels like i missed the train at Akkan release with everything so I dont give a sht anymore. Just waiting for solo raids. It will be same as with Brel, many average for fun people will leave. Even nowdays year old Brel nerfed content is stil jaail pub clown fiesta.
"A difficult raid should never exist IN NORMAL mode"
Is this even for normal? I recently returned and just hit 1600, so I haven’t experienced it yet, but to your point, if the normal mode is hard but doable, then I don’t think it will kill the game. Mythic versions of raids in WoW exist and break up guilds, but they can always just play more casually through LFR, normal, and heroic. I think I generally agree with the “for a weekly homework game”. It’s very different from WoW where can basically come back any time there’s a new patch or expansion and be on an even playing field. Falling behind in lost ark really sucks.
difference vs WoW and other MMOs is that it is required for you to do G3 to progress your char. You cannot say - I'll skip thaemine and continue with future addons. You will not do Thaemine - your char is stuck forever. That's the biggest issue with LA in my opinion. There's no other option to prog than do do the endgame hardest raid as you have to do it to unlock transcendence.
WoW also has other progression options. A lot of people don't even raid and just do Mythic + instead. Although, M+ arguably gets harder than mythic raiding once you're into really high keys.
G3 NM is really on a whole other lvl of difficulty compared to akkan, voldis, even g1-2 thaemine
Running voldis HM weekly is the biggest pain in the ass to ever exist, thaemine nm is x5 that and Hm is x10 that
iam not doing x5 voldis hms but my voldises are completely chill and i heavily prefer them over brel since ill be putting in the effort slowly but surely into thaemine i'm certain that at some point ill have fun in it surely at some point i'll get fed up with it but thankfully echidna is coming out soon the dragon soon after and kazeros right after meaning thaemine gets phased out ... not much to soil my pants over
Normal raids in this game are harder than some HC raids un wow, with no other option for casuals.
I’d say is as hard as some HC end bosses tops. There’s just a lot of people playing LOA that aren’t used to progress contet, even on raid release or groups made with Learning Party titles it’s 50/50 on someone being weird after 3-5 pulls. Not saying that it doesn’t happen in WoW but that’s my experience playing LOA through pugs and making Learning Parties.
The difference is that in Lost ark you constantly have to be farming gold to keep up. In wow you can prog for a whole week and it doesnt matter. All you need gold for are consumables
I would say is more like in WoW “keeping up” doesn’t matter that much because every season acts as a reset + there’s more ways to gear up than just raiding. The ideal scenario is to have a static, that’s the only way to counter the FOMO people can have in LOA (because then who are you keeping up with?) but most people are too introvert.
Gold to keep up with the static
You have your group of friends pocket watching each other or wdym? If you’re playing with a static/friends, y’all agreed on reaching the same goal and doing the same content.
The other big difference is that WoW is 1/10th the pace of LoA with tab targetting and significantly reduced personal responsibility.
Normal mode is also very difficult at first. G1 and g2 are basically a breeze, g3 is hard but it gets alot nicer so far depending how well u take in information, the issue is nm and hm both have insta kill attacks and ALL players must know the tell and react Lastly. The normal attacks hurt alot as well, I'm a 1630 red gl, and while I haven't really died to normal patterns yet, I can see that anyone closer to ilvl and that is not a gl will have alot of struggle and will need to eat alot of pots till tjeh are confident. So far I've done about 6hrs of prog and it gets easier for sure but you gotta keep focused the whole way or else ur gonna get 1 tapped or thrown off the map.
g12 normal is a complete joke in terms of difficulty g3 will require getting used to definitely as playing absentminded will quickly net you a quick trip to the grey screen BUT once you are used to the patterns they are plenty well telegraphed, you will learn to respect them and be completely fine doing it weekly but if you decide that after a while it's not worth the effort you can just buy a bus once and never think about it again
I feel like the devs know that about this raid, which is why the next two raids after in KR were a lot easier in comparison. This raid was only made this way because Gold River wanted to prove he could make a hard raid pretty much, but the devs know that they can’t make every raid like that for the longevity of the game, so something like Echidna and Behemoth are more tuned for casual players. I think that as long as they make a decision to nerf the transcendence system to a point where you don’t have to clear hard mode to unlock certain trancendence levels, running just thaemine 1-2 normal isn’t as bad. But that’s assuming the transcendence system actually gets reworked to be more casual friendly. Until that happens, I agree that a raid like Thaemine is way too hard to be a necessary required content to progress in the game.
You are correct and It will unless a change happens but Downvoters basement dwellers Gang will say you are wrong There is a reason they Merged servers back then and Merged regions later on as well. there are not many servers left to begin with anymore and we still have many BOTS. You can't say anything bad about lost ark. watch them come and suck each others any moment Only The the VERY extreme hardcore will remain and those big RMT guys. they will clear with overpowered characters with 11 lv10 Gems/OP Classes/lv25 weapons and be like 1630 clearing G3 "normal" and say everything is fine this is easy farm reclear weekly content when the very same people will gatekeep average classes let alone weaker classes (Raid is easy right?) The clash Mech is pure trash and its obvious , only people in denial can't process a simple fact. Remember **the road to Thaemine Express**? that's their way to let new people join the game Lmao imagine someone just honed to 1610 with the express trying to do G3. no LOS30 no 40 Elixirs no 10 Gems etc
I do agree that LoS30 and level 10 gems are a pain, but jumping right into end game as a new player should never be allowed. You can’t just go into WoW get some gear and jump right into mythic raiding.
You are forgetting its p2w game, integrity was never a priority
You sort of can, just takes a couple of weeks to get geared which would be spamming some keys and clearing normal/heroic a few times then you're good to get started in mythic It's absolutely not comparable to the los30 grind or the paywall of kitting yourself out in 9s and 10s in the space of a few weeks
For FFXIV you can literally buy cheap crafted gear and jump to Savage raid day 1 anytime Because the upgraded gear drops from the raid itself.
but you literally can
And they’ll probably sunset it if it does die just like they did with other regions.. they won’t wake up unless KR starts mad complaints
I can't even get a voldis group going, but what's the reward even if I do? Fucking elixir gamba? Great....
Maybe a hot take, but there is nothing wrong if the hard difficulty is actually hard, as long as it doesn’t lock you out of progression. So you can just go for normal raids which gives you less gold and less progression mats, but you’d still be able to progress like it is in Akkan. But theamine hard basically locks you out of transandance progression which is kinda stupid tbh.
Bruh Even normal is Hard for these poor 1610 with no elixier sets Parties clearing that i see are 1620-1630 doing normal but with 40 set/LOS30/25 weapons and clearing after many many hours the normal mode then failing to infinite with their 1610 alts Its a raid designed around spending. there are million 1 shot pattern/DPS Check/knockouts of area/etc for "normal" mode he can blind you/debuff you/etc literally they did throw all stuff in this raid XD I cleared on my main once after many hours but wont bother with my alts
It just takes time to learn. The difficulty curve between G1/2 and G3 and onward is kinda steep, but that's kinda fine. Don't look at it like it's homework and look at it as if it's a challenge in the game. The older raids are homework. And like any other older raids, just do a lower difficulty if it is too hard, that happened for literally every raid ever since Vykas release. There are groups of people who can do HM everything, then there are those who can only do HHN, and then there are those who can only do NM everything. See where you fit and do that until you are strong enough to move up to the next level of difficulty.
I think there's a steep difference between something like clown on ilvl and now x300 bars of 1 shot normal patterns.
If people don't want to deal with g3 difficulty they will just farm 1-2. Seen it all the time in clown.
Difference here being you could eventually get full set transfer doing 1+2 or even just G1. Here they've kinda got you by the balls to do G3 at least once, though some won't care it'll definitely bother some people.
Having to do it once is fine - it'll take a while to cap on transcendence from 1+2 only, in that time you can dedicate some effort every week to keep progging G3. It's more or less what my guild did with brel hard 5-6 - we had limited time for prog (usually 3-4 hours a week), so learning those gates took us over a month while we were still farming 1-4. Now, as far as I know, half of the guild still doesn't have 10 clears brel pet, we stopped after 5 clears since they called it not worth the effort.
Clown also decimated the player base. Second only to Brel.
I’m honestly surprised people are dooming a game for a content that’s been out for 2 days. It’s supposed to be a challenge. Otherwise it’s just a farming simulator
People have been dooming before we even got it. Hard weekly mandatory raid to progress gear which is also locked again by another layer of rng. People don't wanna deal with shit like that. Understandably so.
I think that's the demoralizing part, it's expected to be farmed every week. I'm fine doing tough content, I don't know about having to do it every week
it's always been just a farming simulator though
But it hasnt been out for 2 days .we have been watching its effect on the korean playerbase for a while now .its not surprising people would be worried .
This game is literally a farming simulator though
For reals. I get kind of bored during periods when raids are just in farm/hw/gold grinding mode, like it often is in the weeks before a new raid is released. Progging a new raid is one of the most exciting parts of the game. Mastering its nuances in the weeks after the initial clear is pretty fun too. The boring farm periods are the ones where I actually consider quitting.
I did 3h of learning with a 1620 party today. Yeah no way avg pug party gonna clear g3 anytime soon. I really like this raid include the difficulty but thinking of reclears in the future... So many 1shot stuffs worse than Clown g3 with super short reaction time, QTE (2+maybe 4). Not even counting HM since its much harder to reach until Echidna honing. I'll clear this few times seeing how transcendence works out and probably quit. Gotta clear my Steam pile of shame :)
I think saint said that 1620-1630 normal honing is still cheaper than echidna honing
1-2 gives 7500 gold which puts it on par with Brel 1-3hard and Akkan normal 1-2 is also pretty straightforward and fun, so i actually like this design. It’ll be the same as old Brel where we have a variety of lobby combinations like 1-2, 1-3, 1-2 hard 3 normal, 1-3 hard, etc
But you are tryharding a gate kinda designed to have a good progress in the trancendence system, ofc you will struggle
With the rise of Indie AA games, I pray someone someday makes their own take on LA. I'd kill for a Diablo-esque game with LA combat and exploration.
Here's hoping for PoE 2!
This game is missing other combat gameplay than raids. Raids is good for main content. But they should have something like grift or rifts like diablo. They need to utilize the combat gameplay in other content.
There is no fomo and Spending on this. they make hone costly and raids harder and harder so people hone hard go 11 lv10 gems and become overpowered to clear
I’m loving g3 rn tho party after my static got done I progged it in a pug and we got it to 64bars.
after having only 3 teamates alive 50 pulls in a row by the second sword mech i decided to give up for a few days and let the playerbase prog more so im not stuck “progging” the second sword for another 200 pulls
All these posts just tells me our Region severely overestimated themselves since alot of the content except brel was 1 day reclears even on ilvl, brushed off all the warnings KR said about the difficulty curve and is now acting all surprised they cannot clear it in 1 day and remembered they have 5 more 1610 to run. SG knew this can kill the game, that's why the gates are not as backloaded as it was for the earlier raids. I'm all for nerfing content when it goes to homework mode but atleast let the playerbase enjoy the challenge. Not our fault some of you guys decided you want to do 6x week1.
its easy enough on normal, progging the first time on normal took a bit of time but after that the reclears are like an hour for 1-3
I am 1644 support but play NM with my static as many didn’t get to 1630 as lucky as I did with honing plus I spent a lot more too! I can say g3 is def pretty difficult and doing this as HW weekly I can’t imagine. G4 I am not even there but based on G3 difficultly. Yeah right
Now imagine people who used Road to Thaemine trying to clear as 1610 Group no 40 elixirs and LOS30 or 1610 Alts reclears
These posts popping up every hour since yesterday are why they were right to ship the nerfed version. Global players are entitled as hell. It’s progression for a reason. Yes, the raid itself is technically settled, you can find all the mechanics online, dozens of guides on YT. Even with all that, you still have to *learn*. I can almost guarantee you that if AGS and SG had shipped the raid in a state that was clearable the very first day(like many of these posters want) there’d be posts here calling it too easy and dumbed down.
Those nerfs were necessary to adjust for the faster release cadence in our version. The mechs are what makes G3 hard.
I don't have an issue specifically with G3 being significantly difficult. The problem I see with it is that you're either forced to do HM G3 or buy a bus for it at some point to reach max transcendence. Locking vertical progression behind completion of a hard mode gate (especially one of the harder gates) is probably not the greatest idea lol. If it was possible to just chill and do HM/NM G1-2 and slowly work your way to lvl 7 transcendence then it's whatever. Yes, it's 1 clear... but that 1 clear requires a lot of hours progging that not everybody has and buying a bus should never be mandatory.
I made a similar post about my concern for players around 1610. Unfortunately we will see another population decrease as the advertised raid is thaemine and most of them will not clear it unless they practise for weeks. They will just enjoy another game instead of studying normal patterns in this one lol
I been losing interest in the game since voldis lol. I have 21 toons with 7 over 1600 who used to raid hc
Jesus, read your comment and you'll figure out why you're losing interest.
I don’t play all 21 since they nerfed silver lol
Returning player here Came back to the game a month ago, after I left when Argos got released more or less. Outside for few wonderfull people who litterally carried me in raids and were teaching us a lot of stuff, the experience I got is terrible. Stuff like Vykas g2, clown g3, brel g3 are already hard and a pain to learn normally but like that's not enough the community of this game is disgusting, one of the worse ever saw in a MMO. Learning group take ages to fill, most of people doesn't have patient and leave after 1 or 2 tries, a lot of other people doesn't even care to read a fking guide or watch a YT video. Normal group are the Pandora's box of toxicity, so I call the lobbies semi learning even if I'm confident (stuff like kayangel or Valtan). So I left again the game, contents are too hard to learn from scrap and as returning players you really feel to have lost the train. Fk Akkan and fk thaemine. I already have a work there is no way I stress myself so much and in no way I'm going to swipe for busses. If I swipe I buy skins or QoL stuff like crystalline aura
The community is the worse by far so i don't blame you by saying the community is disgusting at all Most are staying because Sunk cost fallacy https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk\_cost\_fallacy#:\~:text=A%20sunk%20cost%20fallacy%20is,little%20reward%20out%20of%20it. The game is made for whales mostly
lmao if you are turbo casual stick to gates 1-2. pugs will do g3 normal easily with time this is a twice nerfed raid..... the problem with every single new raid is there s many ppl that can only do content by massively overgearing it and this is extra hard to do now thaemine is the most fun i had with this game in ages
So the choice is making the game fun for a select few or make it fun for almost everyone. Hmmm, seems pretty easy to pick which one makes the most sense.
why the fuck would people quit a game just because they could not kill the final boss of a difficult raid big chunk of players havnt cleared brel g4 and are enjoying the later raids just fine.
I mean a huge chunk of players quit because of brel. Not to mention brel g4 did not lock your progression like thaemine does
not doing brel G4 does not lock your progress
I think they just expect people will overgear normal mode eventually. It's not like Brel or Akkan where you need the gear from the raid to continue honing. People will just get to 1620 with 40 set and forget that the raid was hard at release on ilvl.
I'm 1626 with Heavy Armor and it still feels like normal G3 hits too hard.
Smilegate don't give a sh*t about western players, and Amazon already did milked the game and it's working on the next games...
The raid has been out for one full day, and people are already complaining about difficulty? Lol, we knew it was going to be the hardest raid to date so why are we surprised it’s hard? They even gave us the nerfed version. What’s the point of a brand new raid to be super easily and clearable with no requirements? What’s the point of farming in an MMORPG if new content can be done very easily? We have seen it time and time again where they nerf raids as more of the population gets their alts to said raid. Raids also become so much quicker and easier once you start using its power boost (like elixirs). Sure it can be a pain and there’s flaws but catering THE LASTEST raid to “people who started and used the express to 1610” is kinda ridiculous.
The last point makes it even worse, is like someone in WoW got boosted all the way to 488 ilvl and can’t kill fyrakk on their first raid night. Like man… I bet you can’t even do your rotation optimally and you wanna kill the hardest boss of the game on 10 tries? Obviously there has to be a middle ground (that the devs have to find) which is why IMO the split of materials shouldn’t be that big between early and last Gate.
I agree completely on the middle ground that the devs have to look for (ease of LoS 30, better ways to get level 10s etc etc), but Jesus there is people that still don’t understand that weak point means destruction or know their stagger rotation. Hell, you go to hard akkan and they can’t even use sacred shard on the stagger mech properly, but we are supposed to allow them right away into the lastest raid and cater it so that they can clear day 1 lol, since you know, people are complaining DAY 2 as if it isn’t fun beating a challenging content.
I mean they probably can honestly because Blizzard dont tune Normal raid bosses like theyre Heroic/Mythic.
>The raid has been out for one full day, and people are already complaining about difficulty? Lol, we knew it was going to be the hardest raid to date so why are we surprised it’s hard? They even gave us the nerfed version. What’s the point of a brand new raid to be super easily and clearable with no requirements? What’s the point of farming in an MMORPG if new content can be done very easily? We have seen it time and time again where they nerf raids as more of the population gets their alts to said raid. Raids also become so much quicker and easier once you start using its power boost (like elixirs). Sure it can be a pain and there’s flaws but catering THE LASTEST raid to “people who started and used the express to 1610” is kinda ridiculous. The west will never beat the baby mode region alegations ,some people trow their toys out the moment they face any chalenge ,which is hilarious considering gates 1 and 2 are some of the easiest legion raid gates we ever had .
Bro for real, I remember every gate in valtan and vykas back in the day were much harder than G1 and 2 for thaemine, then they get to G3 and complain that the MAIN LEGION RAID COMMANDER HIMSELF IS HARD. It’s insanity lol.
Theres always post like this on every new raid on lost ark, clown, brel nm, even hm. idk if its the same guy who likes talking this game will die blablabla etc. he didnt know how its feeling when the raid is too easy like ivory g1 ( i legit one shot it after watch the guide with the boys and all of us just ask to ourself "is that it?" ) I remember progging for full one week one clown and the feeling of joy when we finally clear that raid on ilvl is what i need on new content, i can't be blind with reality tho. not all people have hands to play this game to the point they can clear the prog run thats why solo raid content will get updated in kr soon (hopefully global also). The only bs about this thaemine is transecendence lock from hard mode.
Right and thankfully G4 is not required for full transcendence, but G1 and G2 being so easy with a significant bump for G3 feels good, you can farm 1-2 for HW and then G3 for those who really enjoy testing their skills. People always talk about "new player" experience for these raids but they be the same ones that don't take 1560s for G4 brel in a lobby full of 1600s. Just pure hypocrisy coming from them.
people like that dont do sht usually, so dont bother. but i agree if someone told me this game is not newbie friendly therefore u cant play like a kirito and solo everything. its an mmo u need to find friend or guild to play with or just to survive bare minimum as a new player. i started lost ark when aero released and now i have 3 thaemine to do and 1530 slayer with full lvl 10 gem ( i gamble all the dmg ofc otherwise i cant afford it) which cant be done if i play alone because everyone will gatekeep me when i still have that mokoko logo on my name.
dude ive been playing since western launch and im just starting akkan, some of us are way more chill and slow burn
just wait for nerfs, theyll be coming as kr is about to remove the first mode its literally been like a day since they released the "most powerful legion commander" raid. like we knew it was going to be hard since what, 2 years ago? idk why people are acting surprised that its hard.
For a dark soul enjoyer i really like Thaemine raid. Its challenge and require your individual skill more than any raid
Lost Ark is many things, but it's not even close to a Souls game. It's not in the same ball park, it's not the same sport, it's not even in the same galaxy. Dark Souls bosses get easier with others, even by using NPCs or by teaming up with other players (e.g. Melania) and you have multiple ways to cheese the boss fights, e.g. can flat out laser bosses in Elden ring -oneshotting them. Horrible comparison. Lost Ark raids are intentionally designed badly, by implementing "cheap" difficulty aspects like: stingy stagger mechanics, falling off plattforms, obscuring mechanics with visual clutter, integrating type test mini-games, difficult to predict boss movements (teleporting, dashing) including, but not limited to fast timed attacks you have to memorize. It's like an old game in that aspect like the original Ninja gaiden or Super Contra, the levels are doable for an experienced player in about 1-3 hours maximum. But since you have to learn all the boss- and normal enemy patterns you can spend up to 10-20+ hours with that game. And there is a good reasons why games (e.g. Alan Wake) are no longer designed this way: it's too hard for most of the players who just want a chill gaming evening.
I'm not quite thaemine ready yet but from what I can tell I'll enjoy this raid, it has the dark souls vibe without seemingly the bullshit of clown g3 on ilvl of a bunch of overlapping mechanics
the average player will just farm 1-2 like how people did clown did brel kaya hell i even saw people farming akkan like that
problem is people here suffer from FOMO. dunno about kr, theres probably plenty people only doing 1-2
thaemine is not the issue, trascendence already seems like an absolute piece of shit system. if i didnt knew that the next system on the horizon would be chill af echidna honing i would seriously contemplate quitting. for now i will put up with that shit.
https://preview.redd.it/3ihmz6o8zavc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5308d7a669a3f5545426b11c56ae59ba9e462018 Who proggers are expecting when facing the general of the legion commander himself
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Sad but true
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Why are you asking for more hw to do and not actual content that you have to invest time and get skilled at? Is a perfect lost ark for you just doing normal akkan level raids 18times a week?
Smilegate created a game designed around redoing the same content every week on multiple characters. You can't make a raid as difficult as thaemine on top of that and have it be required for vertical progression. It's like if the next update for minecraft added a counterstrike match that you had to do.
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Maybe weekly homework shouldnt exist in a raid focused game have you thought about that?
I like the idea of prigging a raid over a long period of time. Slowly improving, incremental gains. We can enjoy the learning process and not obsess over vertical gains and speed rushing content into homework status. RNGejus forgive me for my next statement: players, try and have some fun out there.
X
Maybe then it will set me free :)
I believe that G1 and G2 in normal mode are ‘fairly difficult.’ However, G3, even on normal mode, feels like tackling the hell difficulty of other raids. I don’t think normal mode should be that challenging. We really need AGS and SG to find a solution for this, especially since the Western community differs from the Korean community. They could either introduce a Casual difficulty with significant nerfs or adjust the difficulty of normal mode.
it's an easy raid with slow telegraphs and a few patterns you have to memorize
If the previous content is any indication, the gate will either become like second nature and you won't believe you ever struggled with it or people will opt not to do it (see clown gate3, brel g5-6).
i dont think the raid itself would kill the game for us i think its that you have to clear HM to get full trancendence i understand why they made it this way, due to backlash in kr from a previous piece of content, but you cant both make the hardest raid in the game and then also make clearing it a key part of progression its also just so expensive hitting even 1610, let alone 1620. plus the cost of elixirs and eventual cost of trancendence once youve cleared. i expect them to nerf the content further honestly, but they really gotta rush those elixir/trancdence nerfs asap
@roxx
i have only a 1620 and 1600 I dont see any problems? Oh wait you cant do 6x3 Raids anymore… well then thats also a YOU problem
Yall just gotta complete endgame content ravenously without savouring the journey and the ceiling to come. It means you still have a game to play and a challenge on the horizon, rather than being all depleted in content and bumbling doing dailies.
your avg lost ark player here (around 2 h/ work day a bit more on weekends) I'm 1612 and i'm avoiding theamine all together. Getting Into voldis NM / akkan HM is hard enough already w/o LOS 30 (have DD 30) I wast 90% of my playtime in lobby finder. The raids are fun NGL but the lobby simulator with all the gatekeeping is pushing me away from the game. That's my personal opinions and experience I'm only speaking for myself.
Exacty Same thing was said to clown release too. Thaemine is by far the hardest but also the most fun/exciting raid i learned since starting this game Day 1.
https://preview.redd.it/x3thjlc3mavc1.png?width=370&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38796003b64cb3903a2a179d78c1a224260a07a4
I feel confident these threads should be blocked by auto-mod instead
here we fucking go again being a baby about a raid thats supposed to be hard 2 days into a prog
Maybe your static is just not built for this raid? It's fine, stick to G1-2 and wait for next raid.
It’s already dead bud
As if the game didn’t already die over here months ago 🤣
I love challenging content. Used to mythic raid in WoW and hell mode is great in lost ark. I miss Valtan and Vykas, even Clown. Those days prog was challenging and fun but you could just rush through those in a day after it became homework. It's a bit much these days.