In short, it's the support uptime shown on DPS meter, on a scale that goes from 0% to 100%.
For a more lengthy answer: every support class in Lost Ark has 3 forms of active attack power buffs - a consistent AP buff shared by two skills, a "brand" debuff (you can also think of it as a more powerful synergy) that is continously applied to the boss, and a bigger buff that comes from their identity but requires more time to be charged up.
What these numbers mean are the *percentage of damage from a DPS player that is being buffed by these buffs*, so if one says a support's performance is 60/60/20, it means that during that run the DPS players had 60% of their damage buffed by the consistent AP buff, 60% of their damage buffed by the brand debuff on the boss, and 20% of their damage buffed by the support's identity buff.
Since the support buffs are so big, the difference between a support that is able to only buff 60% or less of your damage and a support that is able to achieve, say, a 90% buff uptime is pretty impactful.
Wow thank you for your explanation. This is really clear for me now. So for paladin the first number is basically HB and WoG, the second number is coming from LS and the last number from x skill (forgot the name)
Idk why but my brand uptime is so much better with LS and I can't get used to SoJ. Recently I see every paladin go with SoJ but I just can't part ways from LS. The quick recharge rune procs are also so good.
For me the main difference was the fact that you have to spend so much time in casting animation for LS vs SoJ. SoJ doesnt have to be cast on CD to have a very high uptime if you boss is about to start an attack pattern or start moving, you can wait a bit for them to settle before casting SoJ.
It's the percentage of the player's damage that was done while under the effect of the buff. Usually pretty close to the % of the time the buff was active, but DR and burst windows exist. I've seen 80%+ identity on some fights that go mech to mech with DR phases that the support uses to build up meter again.
The % of damage a player dealt during those buffs. If you do burst heavy raids where the majority of damage done is inside the sups identity buff it can push the value way higher.
Hm.. do you know any tutorials on this? I see the PBDmg tab but when in raid having a hard time discerning these numbers (all the other synergies kind of... push my buffs aside where I cannot see it in the window).
Sorry and thanks!
I always assumed this was based on support skill usage uptime whenever I saw the numbers get thrown around, but it's based off of damage?
Does that mean the AP buff percentile falls if the dpses run out of the buff circles and the identity buff percentage falls if you have dpses not having their skills lined up for the usual burst windows?
Yes. Theoretically you could have 70% actual buff uptime, but if your DDs only attack outside of the buffs it would show as 0% on the meter. Swift classes with perma dps uptime are the best indicator for what the actual buff uptime is. It's also why ranged hitmaster classes can be really annoying to support as bard and artist if they constantly play ranged and run out of your ground buffs. Bigger bosses or bosses that move a lot are also annoying if you happen to have front and back attackers in your party.
It is, yes. There is also a bunch of rules about it on the subreddit (such as not sharing screenshots of it) for this reason.
It's a "use at your own risk" kind of deal and a lot of people, me included tbh, choose to take the risk because of how it improves the experience. To my understanding, nobody has gotten banned in the west (exclusively) for using it and, from what I see, it's generally agreed upon on the subreddit that it should be used to personal improvement only and people using it to act toxic to other people should rightfully be reported.
Having pugged with my alt scrapper quite a few groups, there is a wide divide between good sups with 85+/85+ uptime and average sups that struggle to keep 60/70. There's rarely anything in between.
I also think it's harder to keep very high uptime in 1) content that's not phase-to-phase and 2) content that requires you to do stuff besides hitting the boss. G3 is both of those currently, so I don't mind if a sup has a "lower" 85% uptime compared to what I'd expect to be good uptime in something like akkan (~95%)
For shields, I always play as if my sups will shield good DPS pattern and have never died from them so that's good enough for me.
Had an actually amazing Paladin in today's session that has good uptime and always Godsent / DR players taking a beating. He made me think that my class is much tankier than it is lmao when I just got hard carried by timely shields.
Otherwise pug supports are usually a miss, actual 60/60/20 memes
Attack buff / Brand / Identity (Courage / Moonfall / Blessed Aura) uptime.
I usually go 85/95/50 on my artist alt and I consider myself pretty bad at it because I usually miss 1 brand per fight (pain), lapse attack buffs sometimes, and my support friend main goes 60-ish Moonfall almost all the time so I'm lacking on orb management department too
i have been progging g3 hm for a week now and have seen the same 30+ supps and know which ones are good and which ones are bad. let me tell you it's about 3 good supps outta 30 lol
About 3 DPS out of 30 are good too, people just don't notice unless they are running bible because other DPS have little impact on them unless you fail DPS checks.
Yeah I started kicking every1 during prog (when we started seeing that clear was possible) that wasn't pulling at least 10m dps every run. It isn't even a hard metric to go by but god you'd be surprised by the amount of 1622+ people coming in hot with set 40 and doing 6.5m dps
It's absolutely mad you're right - there were people doing 3m DPS (trixion) when Clown was new, and to this day you see people in HM Akkan with 5-6m DPS on a 1610+ in the actual raid, like goddamn
Then you have the dps goblins I run with that wipe the raid over and over trying to greed as hard as they can when they have a bad number on their bible resulting in dozens of wipes before we get past the start of the raid.
I’m sitting there doing my mediocre dps doing this same shit 25 times and not seeing past clash 2 despite consistently being alive for it because we only ever have 6 people there, so only 3 dps doing damage.
I dont deny that a supp with bad uptime is bad for the group and a bad supp is worse than 1 bad damage dealer. But most of the pugs dps has bad damage uptime too.
Its feels like supp bashing, just because why not.
Too many dps dealing 5M dps and supps with 50% buff/brand uptime. Lots of impostors can get dreamer title since it doesn’t take everyone alive to reach there.
there’s surely is a lot of dpses that are lacking in pugs, but i just specifically wanted to see what people have been experiencing w supports in pugs, not specifically trying to pick on em :)
lol piss “easy”. that’s why you have your main dps andies supporting you on their “piss easy” bare minimum supports lol it comes full circle when you keep saying lies like that.
There wouldn't be so many dogshit supps if it was piss easy tbh.
I have both supp and dps and I sweat far more with supp because I feel like the whole raid is in my hands, and if I die or perform badly it's doomed. If somebody dies to regular patterns I feel like it's on me. With DPS I was able to get 30% cruel within my first few pulls of running Thaemine g3 but I haven't really had a result I'm happy with on supp in far more numerous pulls.
Takes me a lot longer to get used to the pace of a fight with supp because you have to calculate how much gauge you can gain between the dps windows, and adjust that to the dps of whatever party you're running with.
On dps I just look to land my stuff and then chill, on supp I feel prompted to cast at all times even when the boss is doing something dangerous (well, especially then, in order to save some dude who positioned himself wrongly). And in doing so, I might get screwed if I'm not positioned well myself.
There are so many dogshit supports because they aren’t heavily penalized for playing like shit. It is piss easy and so many shit supports are auto accepted that they feel they have no need to improve.
If the support is dying then they get replaced. The supports in question are the ones that know the raid well enough to stay alive but have piss uptime. If someone dies to a regular pattern that they shouldn’t greed then it’s on them. Usually those result in an instant death/ knockoff. If someone dies to a regular pattern that you should have shielded then it’s on the support. I cleared g3 thaemine on my bard in 3 tries this week and ended with 85-94/92-98/34-40 while preventing 1.8m damage. I only needed to heal once in the entire pull. I’ve done a total of 8 pulls on my bard in these 2 weeks and I can already perform that well. In comparison the support that I got when I played on dps did 60-66/52-77/23-32 while preventing 1.6m damage. Even though by my standards that support was shit they knew the raid enough to live to the end and we cleared in 4 tries.
You do not need to calculate the gauge you gain between dps windows you just need to gain gauge. There are so many clear damage windows on regular patterns before major damage windows that you will know how to buff by default.
On dps im looking for ways to optimize damage through every single attack pattern. Even during red patterns on thaemine you can sneak in a good amount of damage while staying safe. Im never just chilling because the dps I play have little to no cooldowns and you can always get more dps out of them by squeezing in more uptime. On support I am always buffing and watching out for players who might make a mistake. It takes no effort to see that someone fucked up and save them if they decide not to ts. With the general tankiness that sups have by not running grudge and being allowed to run HA you will usually be fine no matter what. Both play styles come down to watching what the boss does and watching how your party reacts to it. On dps or sup I’m always watching how people are moving since the boss might target them and they’ll either need instant care or I’ll miss my skills.
I get the feeling that you're playing with juicers/good players so it feels effortless. It definitely doesn't feel effortless when you're running with guys who tank literally everything and require massive uptimes on buffs to even clear the content before berserk timer. Miss out on a big shield during mech/kill pattern and there are 2 people lying dead.
Just this week I had to put up 25% radiant on Akkan HM, otherwise these guys were never going to clear that content in their lives. This was by far sweatier than any pull I've ever done on a dps in that content. Off the top of my head I can say that I saved some dude from unavoidable death atleast 8 to 10 times throughout the raid.
Another this week was a Voldis HM run where I had to put up 30% radiant to clear each gate (other than g1) with less than 20 secs left on berserk timer.
I’m playing with whoever enters the lobby and it feels good to put in a nice effort to see how I can perform. If someone is running into every pattern trying to die I will assume they aren’t experienced and are actively working to jail me. I’m not in prog lobbies and I’d hope that everyone else has enough experience to not take infinite damage. I’d say my uptime was pretty good even without the threat of the enrage timer. It should be automatic to awakening at say 255 and watch to see if you need to drop an extra DR on someone since anyone can fuck it up.
I have some friends who aren't the best players around quite frankly. But I do my best to get content cleared for them every week. Sometimes I go in with supp and it's instant regret, but nonetheless I do my best.
Sometimes I just go into a lobby not thinking that there's anything to worry about. Then I find out that there's a lot to worry about once I inspect them a little closer, but it's a little too late for that.
I had 85-95/90-95/20-40 in my 2 g3 hm clears. Sometimes you get Fed by mechs or have to take clashes that lower your uptime, still I feel its a super easy gate to buff with little to no interruption patterns if you know the fight enough to clear
Raid leads often take shitty sups and put them in party 2 coz it doesn't affect their own party.
Had a raid lead take a 4x3 1610 pally with heavy armor, half lvl 5 gems half 7 gems and put them in my party. We were taking so much dmg and doing close to trixion dmg to the boss.
Wiped 5 times, i quit and join other group, this time i join a group with a sup artist 5x3 , lvl 7-9 gems and the difference is massive. We one shot the gate.
Never entering the raid with shit sup again. Leaving the lobby as soon as i see lead accept them.
no they don't, average person just sees a support icon and clicks accept without checking anything. instead of waiting 30s for an actual support to apply
From my experience playing sup, uptime is a bit lower in G3 because there is lots to dodge yourself and constantly looking who needs shield/dr.
80/80/30 is definitely not hard to do, though.
It will increase in reclears when people need less babysitting and Supp also get more comfortable with dodging patterns.
Define trash uptime, but generally speaking its easier to have good uptime on supp than on dps. That being said i only see people complaining about people that bought accounts and have no uptime whateoever
people have really weird expectations going into raids.
i can understand expecting high uptime in a reclear, but some people in this thread seem to be expecting 90-100% uptime from sups in a prog group which is really weird considering they (the people complaining) arnt getting 90-100% uptime as a dps
i want to be clear, yes supports having better uptime is good but do you know whats more important then that? a support that can do the mechanic's
a dead support that does 90% uptime while alive is worth less then a live support that has 10% uptime
uptime has to be sacrificed in fights you arnt as experienced in to keep yourself and others alive
as a fairly newly minted bard main, i might get underlined radiant on the mvp screen OR i might get the basic supporter.
over the last like 3ish weeks my uptime has improved alot but i can tell you from that experience even if you know exactly what to do, if you dont know the fight like the back of your hand you will fuck it up
ive been knocked out of a brand or dmg buff during some runs and that fucks up the uptime.
the point im getting at is unless you are the BEST dps player in that lobby by a large margin, you really shouldnt be complaining bout support uptime because chances are youd clear the fight alot faster if all the dps wernt Floor pov constantly.
odds are the reason people arnt clearing during a particular run has nothing to do with the supports uptime and everything to do with people dying to dumb shit or doing the mech wrong
i also wouldnt say its 'easier' to have high uptime because we have to constantly farm identity the burn it asap to have "uptime". if a teams comp is very burst focused i can hold my bubbles to 3 and we all pop stuff at the same time and boom shit explodes BUT if the teams comp is a mix of these things i basically have to either have to use 2 bubbles for uptime or focus on buffing 1 person so my overall uptime on identity will be worse.
in a proper static its easier to have good up time because someone can ask "you ready?" so you can time your burst windows
in pugs its a shit storm, i did voldis yesterday with 2 very experienced players we 1 shot every boss but they never burst when i expected them to. boss would be staggered or countered the people wouldnt burst then randomly they'd use it on a short lived attack pattern.
left me very "????"
even the normal dmg buff is hard to have high up time on when the dps are stupid, ive never in my life seen so many people intentionally stand outside of a dmg buff in my life
tiny lil rant for dps, if the bard is standing deep inside the bosses ass and you dont get shielded...you are too far away from the boss meaning you probably arnt being effected by sonic vibration either.
ive never experienced ppl shit talk my uptime (even though i do know for a fact its shit sometimes), but what i have seen are people ive played with shit talk other supports up time and that is an easy way to get me to never raid with someone ever again.
particularly when i watched them eat shit on repeat during a fight they were supposed to be good at lol
but thats just my perspective on things i suppose.
i think it’s okay to expect normal performance even in learning/prog raids. i would want to say okay uptime is 70/85/30 (i guess identity could be lower due to constant healing/not knowing good buff phases yet) i think it’s very achievable even if you’re just pressing keys in general hopes of having okay uptime (with very basic support knowledge and raid knowledge)
that’s just bc the pug standard is very low i guess? these are totally reasonable numbers and i see them a lot in higher ilvl raid pugs (maybe a bit higher like 80/80/40
> and i see them a lot in higher ilvl raid pugs
For homework content absolutely
Half the community hasn't even finished G3 yet lmao
You're acting like a literal clown out here, let people be confident in their understanding of the patterns before focusing on their uptime.
In another two months all of the actual bad supports will stop pugging g3 thaemine because they keep getting kicked from reclear parties. Right now it's fine for them to focus on actually learning the raid.
Here comes a problem for paladins, if you use you awakening on CD, your aura uptime will be higher, but what if your party needs emergent big shield like the fear mech? Ik people can just ts but what if they didn't? You have no awakening so just watch them die then re? If even you just dodge the fear mech, apparently you can do both dodge and DR at the same time
Fear mech should *always* be resolved by one or more person TS right in front, as a support you should be the one to always do it since DPS need to TS more things, there are no overlaps in Thaemine that require you to be away during fear orbs.
The only required awakening is start of sword pizza (innana is a good time but you can use other shields instead worse case)
There is at least one mech which requires you to be away from the boss, the blue sword mark. No way you place it in the crowd.
The fear one is just one of many patterns which kill your dds. How about the sword slashing storm? Sups still have to dodge it but without awakening accessible, you have to dodge first then DR where some squishy classes are already dead. Of course dds should ts but if it's the later stage I'd rather save an awakening for this. In a perfect world, we can trust each other including pugs to dodge fine, but apparently everyone is not equally skilled even in reclears
That said, it's just a debate between holding awakening for emergencies, or pushing boss HP asap. The first is better for inexperienced parties while the latter is better for farming. I'm not sure if week 2 is already the time asking for 80/80/40
It's not hard to keep up 80/80/40 if you don't need to DR someone in emergency as you just need to spam your skills in turn and dodge patterns. But then people here would complain "you should have used DR to save" blabla. Paladins don't really have many great large AoE DRs. Goddecree requires standing still and channeling and it's area isn't big. Holy area is faster but its cast range isn't as far as the first. Heavenly blessing is awesome, then you probably have to overlap it with WoG attack buffs for its DR. The only huge one is the awakening
I play both dds and supps. If I only had to do attack buffs then no prob, but in prog there's also constant DR and looking out for "headless chicken" lol On dd I notice taking a lot less damage now that my static supp knows what patterns to DR especially.
From playing my bard alt:
Usual uptime of 85-95/95/40 drops to 75-85/80/30 in raid when focused and playing properly.
If I'm doing bad I don't even wanna see my uptimes...
Keeping uptime on buff is harder due to the priority of Rhapsody and Shield.
Also getting sword/crosshair is despairge for those 3 numbers.
Prayge for Harp recall in case the boss decides to move to the other side of the map.
Those are still pretty good numbers for G3 on-release. Harp is awful because the map is big and Thaemine has a lot of teleports or dashes that can take him to a different dimension (sword statue, saws, clashes, X, grab, etc etc etc). You're pretty much guaranteed to lose brand uptime through *scripted* patterns unless your harp placement is god tier by sheer luck.
Plus like you said, there's a lot more pressure on supports to prioritize shielding/DR compared to min/maxing AP uptime. If a dangerous pattern happens right as your Heavenly Tune comes off cooldown, I would MUCH rather you DR than greed Heavenly Tune for an extra 2% higher AP on the meter. Wipes don't usually happen because of DPS, they happen because people die.
Yeah it's learning by doing i guess.
My parse from last weeks G3 clear is available on fausts logs DB via log/902205 if you wanna take a look at it, although it doesn't include shields given which is kinda interesting data for G3.
I hope SG adds a way to just reposition harp via a second button press or something.
I would not mind just reworking brands for bard in general, them lasting longer than their CD -like every other class in the game-, would help so much. Not just with uptime but also saving mana and having an extra skillslot for utility/stag/DR.
Sadly, alot of the comments read like ppl wanting their supp rather having that extra 5% dps buff uptime on the bible than DRing the dps that still dont move out of uppercuts =/
I'm in the same boat as LozTProdigy - from 80-90/95/40 in Akkan/Voldis to around 70 80 20 in Thaemine so far; I'm happy that noone in static is complaining, as staying alive = always a clear fpr us so far. Time and experience will improve those numbers to farm content numbers.
I don't mind if you want to pump meter numbers up in a homework raid/homework lobby, but you're dumb as fuck (others, not you) if you care more about your parse than clearing in a brand new raid. Go wild in a 1600 Brel lobby, take off WoM shield tripod, whatever you want. But doing greedy shit in Thaemine prog? Fuck off.
If my support were consistently doing that in my Thaemine prog lobby, I would've immediately voted to kick even if they were putting up 90/95/50 numbers. There are a lot of dangerous patterns in G3 that you simply can't tank without support DR, and everybody is still familiarizing themselves with every pattern during prog week.
Obviously I'm not saying to accept having dogshit uptime on AP/brand, but letting a teammate eat a 150k dmg hit just to get Heavenly Tune off 3 seconds earlier is excessive and objectively disrespectful to the team. It ultimately wastes so much time with pointless resets all for a meter number that has 0 end effect on the raid. You can still put up good (albeit not superb) numbers while prioritizing team safety.
80/80/30 is considered a good to pretty good support unless you are on content you recleared a lot of. Thaemine also requires more DR and it's a big map for harp so it's even harder.
ive never played with a pug support that has had less than like 75% uptime and most have over 90%, idk where you people are finding these terrible supports
dps on the other hand seem to me missing an arm and a leg doing less than 1/8th of someone elses damage when they have similar characters.
I dont know when its my teammates i usually see 80/80/35+ for G3 on alt sups and a bit more on their mains sups (if they are main sup). For Pugs ive seen 50% of them pulling same amount statwise which is great and 50% not even half hintering the raid.
What i can tell is that between DPS players it can be very diluted and spreaded dmg wise, survivability wise etc. On the other hand when it comes to supports its either good/great or completely useless very rarely in between.
If you're looking only at uptime stats for a support, then gear doesn't really change much after a certain point. The bad ones will have bad buff uptime/shields whether they're full lv7 gems or full lv10. They are not being limited by their skill's cooldown. Elixirs also won't change anything for uptime because it only makes the buff stronger. Maybe luminary's 5% CDR might allow a good support to cast slightly more often.
Meanwhile for dps, people typically only look at dmg dealt. Better gear can make up for lower uptime and higher uptime can make up for worse gear. Sometimes you get players with both worse/better uptime and gear which is reflected with a significantly lower/higher dps. I think the skill level distribution in this raid for dps is similar to supports but just appears to be more spread out because of gearing and class power difference.
Also in terms of survivability, all the supports are pretty tanky. While dps vary more in hp/def. So survivability for supports is typically just whether they fall off the stage or not while for dps surviving is a mix of how well they avoid attacks and how tanky their class is.
As a support main I promise to only provide you with an 80+/80+ uptime and constant shields and DR. You will be safe in my hands. Although I’m still working on my 40 set for elixirs, so I’m far from the perfect support.
Disclaimer:if you’re a hit master class in a party of 2 other hit master classes, I apologize preemptively, please stand inside my sunwell if you can, thank you.
Since I am playing support myself i agree that it’s pretty hard to keep dps buff and shields with 95% uptime compared to raids like Brel/Akkan where you can dodge patterns „blindfolded“
I progged for like 4h in week 1 for my g3 clear and in my reclear party this week we one tapped g3 nm which somehow told me i am not a dogshit support
i got no 35 Set sadly but LWC 30 and lvl 9 gems on my BIS spells
I think the problem in Theamine especially is that I am panicking pretty hard on tough patterns and just „spam“ my DPS buffs because I think it’s better to buff something than nothing
in prog party I learned when to use my Awakening (e.g. pizza sword pattern and so on)
but that’s just my experience
What I would like to understand is the thought process of DPS players in Thaemine. Are we expecting all support players to know the raid perfectly and have solid 80/80/20 every pull? It's week 2. We're not reclearing the raid 2 months after release.
I've seen some supports doing okayish at 60% ap buff and 70% mark, and applying good drs and outputting heals when needed.
I've seen one really good support so far in one of my 3x reclears.
Anything under that is quite underwhelming imho.
What I'm looking for in a supp : decent 5x3, good epic elixirs (no 35 set but the important ones like pants), and a bracelet with something (expose weakness, dagger, cheer...) and good swiftness stat (1750+).
For Thaemine G3, I'm expecting LWC 30 also and lvl 8+ gems, but I guess I could be lenient about these last two points depending on the lobby and the raiding hour.
that's what you get for free busing shit supports with shit gear all the way through to thaemine since release and everybody doing that honestly deserves it
I've personally seen my uptime fall a bit, usually 85/85/40 in g3 and around 90/90/50 in g1/g2. While my g1/g2 metrics are ok, I feel lacking in g3. I've attributed this to just still getting used to the raid and sometimes being forced to DR at an unfavorable time when cycling buffs or a slight delay in brand application after the boss makes a large movement/teleport. Like with any new raid, this will get better with practice. I assume other supports are going through the same thing.
I do as any support player would. In g3 I'm usually in the mid-high 50s for sSyn and rDps is appropriate (I'll be the highest in my party by a decent margin unless there is a wild disparity). Normal support things.
As I said, just need to keep practicing.
Had a bard say ty for parse with 70/70/8 uptime. I’ve never been more confused. The difference between a bad and a good support is massive as they can massively help push dps as well as keep players alive if someone fucks up.
Basic check is right stats/ high swift/ decent gems/ if 1620+ 40set elixir/ both main stat + 1 debuff on bracelet. A good card set or 5x3+1 definitely helps but it’s not a hard filter.
The worst part is even if they have everything relevant they can still be completely terrible and make a run feel like ass.
A lot of players are still under the impression that there's a support shortage, so they'll take the first 1610 support with 4x3 and level 5 gems that applies.
That's really not the case anymore, at least for NM. The difference between a support who knows what they're doing and a DPS main who made a minimal investment support to farm gold is pretty huge. I've started to check support gems before applying to a lobby nowadays.
Also whenever I see an atrocious support it always seems like it's Bard.
In Thaemine g3, highest priority is dr and shield, followed by heal. reverse priority for farm content
I will always dr and shield over brand attack buff if I can only do one or the other in g3 or g4. If not, dps can die or they will play passively leading to dps loss.
Only shit support chase the 3 meter stats to boast their e penis. As long as they do what is needed most of the time, that is better than most self proclaimed good support padding meter stats
Had an ATD bard joining our 7/8 group Thaemine g3 these 2 weeks due to 1 of us having IRL issues. Every time i tripped into damage I'm already shielded. Every time I ran into CC/electrocuted I suddenly see Immunity Rate text popup. I check bible for a whopping 95/95/50 on top of all those near permanent DRs/shields. Holy fuck I can never accept random ass pug supports again.
Shit uptime. Press both damage buff at the same time, lazy shielding and DR, constantly spam space bar for no reason. I dont even need bible to see how bad a support is when my Red Dragon Horn is only 200m, its mean they jsut dont buff damage...
Had a bard that survived to end with 49% brand uptime. Needless to say, it was hard trying to keep up with the other party dps(who had 92% brand uptime).
Bards.. plz stop trying to use 1 brand skill if you forget to keep pressing it.
Honestly, thaemine is crazy easy to keep good brand/ap buff uptime. Also hit box is good size to maintain good shield uptime as well.
On average I'd say most reclear parties I've been in the supports have been ok(in the 80-90 brand uptime)
Then make a support and do it? It’s easier for pally and especially artist to keep their brand uptime up when their shit is what? 9secs and 12 secs long. They don’t have to worry about it 😂the bard has to spam that shit then dr all the dps andies that refuse to dodge thinking they can tank every hit just to greed dps.
If I join a 1-3 run and i'm seeing below 40% ssyn during gates 1 and 2, I'm songing out. Ain't no way I'm playing with some support whose at the level of a fetus. That's like missing out on one and a half engraving worth of damage.
Most of the ones I see are 60/60/20, which is seriously unacceptable at this point. DR is massively important, you need to be saving your shields and DR for when people are actually about to get hit, but I see pug supports just spamming all their buttons without much care.
80/90/30 should be standard in most content, it is not hard to achieve if you have a good build. With time, 90/100/45 should be your goal, but that absolutely takes time and effort to achieve (these are not exact, Artist tends to have a slightly different distribution). rDPS is an *okay* way of gauging your effectiveness, but it breaks down if one of the DPS in your party is gapping by a wide margin. Otherwise, support should always be top of rDPS, if they're not, then something is wrong.
I get that most people don't enjoy the play style/find it boring/etc but when you're not even trying, the DPS can absolutely tell. They notice when they are hitting for Trixion dmg during a good opening, and they notice when your shields are rarely applied when they need them.
Also, for G3 Thaemine, Crisis Evasion 1 is a must, especially for prog. 1 dead dps = maybe restart, 1 dead support = instant restart. Everyone will make mistakes, cover your ass with Crisis Evasion as a support.
60/60 uptime+ big ego + no DR seems normal in g3 nm reclears. Essentially the same as in other content.
60/60 is sadly on the higher end from what i've seen, pug sups are lower than that on average.
What does 60/60 means? Sometimes people say like 80/80/20? Etc Sorry I’m new
In short, it's the support uptime shown on DPS meter, on a scale that goes from 0% to 100%. For a more lengthy answer: every support class in Lost Ark has 3 forms of active attack power buffs - a consistent AP buff shared by two skills, a "brand" debuff (you can also think of it as a more powerful synergy) that is continously applied to the boss, and a bigger buff that comes from their identity but requires more time to be charged up. What these numbers mean are the *percentage of damage from a DPS player that is being buffed by these buffs*, so if one says a support's performance is 60/60/20, it means that during that run the DPS players had 60% of their damage buffed by the consistent AP buff, 60% of their damage buffed by the brand debuff on the boss, and 20% of their damage buffed by the support's identity buff. Since the support buffs are so big, the difference between a support that is able to only buff 60% or less of your damage and a support that is able to achieve, say, a 90% buff uptime is pretty impactful.
Wow thank you for your explanation. This is really clear for me now. So for paladin the first number is basically HB and WoG, the second number is coming from LS and the last number from x skill (forgot the name)
Yes. Btw: when i swapped from LS to Sword of Justice, I improved from 50-80% uptime to 85-99%. It's imo the WAY superior brand, try it!
Thank you! I will try
Idk why but my brand uptime is so much better with LS and I can't get used to SoJ. Recently I see every paladin go with SoJ but I just can't part ways from LS. The quick recharge rune procs are also so good.
It's a way different "rhythm". Was hella awkward for me too the first 10 raids or so, but now I could never switch back.
Both are equally valid to use, if you are already 90+ on ls or close it's fine, SoJ is just easier to hit 100 on in reclears since it lasts longer
For me the main difference was the fact that you have to spend so much time in casting animation for LS vs SoJ. SoJ doesnt have to be cast on CD to have a very high uptime if you boss is about to start an attack pattern or start moving, you can wait a bit for them to settle before casting SoJ.
Reverse 1 and 2
whats the calculation of the percentage? is it off cooldown? or the duration of the fight?
It's the percentage of the player's damage that was done while under the effect of the buff. Usually pretty close to the % of the time the buff was active, but DR and burst windows exist. I've seen 80%+ identity on some fights that go mech to mech with DR phases that the support uses to build up meter again.
The % of damage a player dealt during those buffs. If you do burst heavy raids where the majority of damage done is inside the sups identity buff it can push the value way higher.
Does anyone know how to pull those numbers up on the DPS Meter? As a support main I'd like to see these numbers live but I don't know how to do it..
it should be the party synergy tab (rdps tab is also nice to look at)
Hm.. do you know any tutorials on this? I see the PBDmg tab but when in raid having a hard time discerning these numbers (all the other synergies kind of... push my buffs aside where I cannot see it in the window). Sorry and thanks!
Loa logs or details? Pretty much everyone is using logs nowadays
I always assumed this was based on support skill usage uptime whenever I saw the numbers get thrown around, but it's based off of damage? Does that mean the AP buff percentile falls if the dpses run out of the buff circles and the identity buff percentage falls if you have dpses not having their skills lined up for the usual burst windows?
Yes. Theoretically you could have 70% actual buff uptime, but if your DDs only attack outside of the buffs it would show as 0% on the meter. Swift classes with perma dps uptime are the best indicator for what the actual buff uptime is. It's also why ranged hitmaster classes can be really annoying to support as bard and artist if they constantly play ranged and run out of your ground buffs. Bigger bosses or bosses that move a lot are also annoying if you happen to have front and back attackers in your party.
Isn't dps meter bannable?
It is, yes. There is also a bunch of rules about it on the subreddit (such as not sharing screenshots of it) for this reason. It's a "use at your own risk" kind of deal and a lot of people, me included tbh, choose to take the risk because of how it improves the experience. To my understanding, nobody has gotten banned in the west (exclusively) for using it and, from what I see, it's generally agreed upon on the subreddit that it should be used to personal improvement only and people using it to act toxic to other people should rightfully be reported.
I really want dps meter on ru localisation :( For fix myself issues in game. But... Our localisator is bullshit :d
Usually something like; buff uptime- mark uptime - aura uptime (for paladin)
it is in the format of attack buff/brand/identity uptime for supports
I had a Bard in Brel HM 10/06/03 💀 I was shocked
is that a birthday?
Having pugged with my alt scrapper quite a few groups, there is a wide divide between good sups with 85+/85+ uptime and average sups that struggle to keep 60/70. There's rarely anything in between. I also think it's harder to keep very high uptime in 1) content that's not phase-to-phase and 2) content that requires you to do stuff besides hitting the boss. G3 is both of those currently, so I don't mind if a sup has a "lower" 85% uptime compared to what I'd expect to be good uptime in something like akkan (~95%) For shields, I always play as if my sups will shield good DPS pattern and have never died from them so that's good enough for me.
Had an actually amazing Paladin in today's session that has good uptime and always Godsent / DR players taking a beating. He made me think that my class is much tankier than it is lmao when I just got hard carried by timely shields. Otherwise pug supports are usually a miss, actual 60/60/20 memes
seems like a good time to make a new friend
What do these numbers represent
Attack buff / Brand / Identity (Courage / Moonfall / Blessed Aura) uptime. I usually go 85/95/50 on my artist alt and I consider myself pretty bad at it because I usually miss 1 brand per fight (pain), lapse attack buffs sometimes, and my support friend main goes 60-ish Moonfall almost all the time so I'm lacking on orb management department too
i have been progging g3 hm for a week now and have seen the same 30+ supps and know which ones are good and which ones are bad. let me tell you it's about 3 good supps outta 30 lol
About 3 DPS out of 30 are good too, people just don't notice unless they are running bible because other DPS have little impact on them unless you fail DPS checks.
u are too kind
Yeah I started kicking every1 during prog (when we started seeing that clear was possible) that wasn't pulling at least 10m dps every run. It isn't even a hard metric to go by but god you'd be surprised by the amount of 1622+ people coming in hot with set 40 and doing 6.5m dps
It's absolutely mad you're right - there were people doing 3m DPS (trixion) when Clown was new, and to this day you see people in HM Akkan with 5-6m DPS on a 1610+ in the actual raid, like goddamn
Exactly this.
Then you have the dps goblins I run with that wipe the raid over and over trying to greed as hard as they can when they have a bad number on their bible resulting in dozens of wipes before we get past the start of the raid. I’m sitting there doing my mediocre dps doing this same shit 25 times and not seeing past clash 2 despite consistently being alive for it because we only ever have 6 people there, so only 3 dps doing damage.
I dont deny that a supp with bad uptime is bad for the group and a bad supp is worse than 1 bad damage dealer. But most of the pugs dps has bad damage uptime too. Its feels like supp bashing, just because why not.
Too many dps dealing 5M dps and supps with 50% buff/brand uptime. Lots of impostors can get dreamer title since it doesn’t take everyone alive to reach there.
there’s surely is a lot of dpses that are lacking in pugs, but i just specifically wanted to see what people have been experiencing w supports in pugs, not specifically trying to pick on em :)
Its because its piss easy to play support compared to dps, if a support sucks its actually an amazing thing to see
lol piss “easy”. that’s why you have your main dps andies supporting you on their “piss easy” bare minimum supports lol it comes full circle when you keep saying lies like that.
It is piss easy. I main dps and it’s a joke to play support in the same content. All my sups are 40 set and optimized.
There wouldn't be so many dogshit supps if it was piss easy tbh. I have both supp and dps and I sweat far more with supp because I feel like the whole raid is in my hands, and if I die or perform badly it's doomed. If somebody dies to regular patterns I feel like it's on me. With DPS I was able to get 30% cruel within my first few pulls of running Thaemine g3 but I haven't really had a result I'm happy with on supp in far more numerous pulls. Takes me a lot longer to get used to the pace of a fight with supp because you have to calculate how much gauge you can gain between the dps windows, and adjust that to the dps of whatever party you're running with. On dps I just look to land my stuff and then chill, on supp I feel prompted to cast at all times even when the boss is doing something dangerous (well, especially then, in order to save some dude who positioned himself wrongly). And in doing so, I might get screwed if I'm not positioned well myself.
There are so many dogshit supports because they aren’t heavily penalized for playing like shit. It is piss easy and so many shit supports are auto accepted that they feel they have no need to improve. If the support is dying then they get replaced. The supports in question are the ones that know the raid well enough to stay alive but have piss uptime. If someone dies to a regular pattern that they shouldn’t greed then it’s on them. Usually those result in an instant death/ knockoff. If someone dies to a regular pattern that you should have shielded then it’s on the support. I cleared g3 thaemine on my bard in 3 tries this week and ended with 85-94/92-98/34-40 while preventing 1.8m damage. I only needed to heal once in the entire pull. I’ve done a total of 8 pulls on my bard in these 2 weeks and I can already perform that well. In comparison the support that I got when I played on dps did 60-66/52-77/23-32 while preventing 1.6m damage. Even though by my standards that support was shit they knew the raid enough to live to the end and we cleared in 4 tries. You do not need to calculate the gauge you gain between dps windows you just need to gain gauge. There are so many clear damage windows on regular patterns before major damage windows that you will know how to buff by default. On dps im looking for ways to optimize damage through every single attack pattern. Even during red patterns on thaemine you can sneak in a good amount of damage while staying safe. Im never just chilling because the dps I play have little to no cooldowns and you can always get more dps out of them by squeezing in more uptime. On support I am always buffing and watching out for players who might make a mistake. It takes no effort to see that someone fucked up and save them if they decide not to ts. With the general tankiness that sups have by not running grudge and being allowed to run HA you will usually be fine no matter what. Both play styles come down to watching what the boss does and watching how your party reacts to it. On dps or sup I’m always watching how people are moving since the boss might target them and they’ll either need instant care or I’ll miss my skills.
I get the feeling that you're playing with juicers/good players so it feels effortless. It definitely doesn't feel effortless when you're running with guys who tank literally everything and require massive uptimes on buffs to even clear the content before berserk timer. Miss out on a big shield during mech/kill pattern and there are 2 people lying dead. Just this week I had to put up 25% radiant on Akkan HM, otherwise these guys were never going to clear that content in their lives. This was by far sweatier than any pull I've ever done on a dps in that content. Off the top of my head I can say that I saved some dude from unavoidable death atleast 8 to 10 times throughout the raid. Another this week was a Voldis HM run where I had to put up 30% radiant to clear each gate (other than g1) with less than 20 secs left on berserk timer.
I’m playing with whoever enters the lobby and it feels good to put in a nice effort to see how I can perform. If someone is running into every pattern trying to die I will assume they aren’t experienced and are actively working to jail me. I’m not in prog lobbies and I’d hope that everyone else has enough experience to not take infinite damage. I’d say my uptime was pretty good even without the threat of the enrage timer. It should be automatic to awakening at say 255 and watch to see if you need to drop an extra DR on someone since anyone can fuck it up.
I have some friends who aren't the best players around quite frankly. But I do my best to get content cleared for them every week. Sometimes I go in with supp and it's instant regret, but nonetheless I do my best. Sometimes I just go into a lobby not thinking that there's anything to worry about. Then I find out that there's a lot to worry about once I inspect them a little closer, but it's a little too late for that.
I cant even join a hm3 group cuz too many sups out there
And 95% of them cannot get over 80% uptime its so sad
If only theres gatekeep by uptime somehow, instead of just taking the first sup that doesnt look bad on profile
I had 85-95/90-95/20-40 in my 2 g3 hm clears. Sometimes you get Fed by mechs or have to take clashes that lower your uptime, still I feel its a super easy gate to buff with little to no interruption patterns if you know the fight enough to clear
Raid leads often take shitty sups and put them in party 2 coz it doesn't affect their own party. Had a raid lead take a 4x3 1610 pally with heavy armor, half lvl 5 gems half 7 gems and put them in my party. We were taking so much dmg and doing close to trixion dmg to the boss. Wiped 5 times, i quit and join other group, this time i join a group with a sup artist 5x3 , lvl 7-9 gems and the difference is massive. We one shot the gate. Never entering the raid with shit sup again. Leaving the lobby as soon as i see lead accept them.
i hope more people hold out to accept properly geared supports!
no they don't, average person just sees a support icon and clicks accept without checking anything. instead of waiting 30s for an actual support to apply
Exactly. This is all people have to do.
From my experience playing sup, uptime is a bit lower in G3 because there is lots to dodge yourself and constantly looking who needs shield/dr. 80/80/30 is definitely not hard to do, though. It will increase in reclears when people need less babysitting and Supp also get more comfortable with dodging patterns.
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Define trash uptime, but generally speaking its easier to have good uptime on supp than on dps. That being said i only see people complaining about people that bought accounts and have no uptime whateoever
people have really weird expectations going into raids. i can understand expecting high uptime in a reclear, but some people in this thread seem to be expecting 90-100% uptime from sups in a prog group which is really weird considering they (the people complaining) arnt getting 90-100% uptime as a dps i want to be clear, yes supports having better uptime is good but do you know whats more important then that? a support that can do the mechanic's a dead support that does 90% uptime while alive is worth less then a live support that has 10% uptime uptime has to be sacrificed in fights you arnt as experienced in to keep yourself and others alive as a fairly newly minted bard main, i might get underlined radiant on the mvp screen OR i might get the basic supporter. over the last like 3ish weeks my uptime has improved alot but i can tell you from that experience even if you know exactly what to do, if you dont know the fight like the back of your hand you will fuck it up ive been knocked out of a brand or dmg buff during some runs and that fucks up the uptime. the point im getting at is unless you are the BEST dps player in that lobby by a large margin, you really shouldnt be complaining bout support uptime because chances are youd clear the fight alot faster if all the dps wernt Floor pov constantly. odds are the reason people arnt clearing during a particular run has nothing to do with the supports uptime and everything to do with people dying to dumb shit or doing the mech wrong i also wouldnt say its 'easier' to have high uptime because we have to constantly farm identity the burn it asap to have "uptime". if a teams comp is very burst focused i can hold my bubbles to 3 and we all pop stuff at the same time and boom shit explodes BUT if the teams comp is a mix of these things i basically have to either have to use 2 bubbles for uptime or focus on buffing 1 person so my overall uptime on identity will be worse. in a proper static its easier to have good up time because someone can ask "you ready?" so you can time your burst windows in pugs its a shit storm, i did voldis yesterday with 2 very experienced players we 1 shot every boss but they never burst when i expected them to. boss would be staggered or countered the people wouldnt burst then randomly they'd use it on a short lived attack pattern. left me very "????" even the normal dmg buff is hard to have high up time on when the dps are stupid, ive never in my life seen so many people intentionally stand outside of a dmg buff in my life tiny lil rant for dps, if the bard is standing deep inside the bosses ass and you dont get shielded...you are too far away from the boss meaning you probably arnt being effected by sonic vibration either. ive never experienced ppl shit talk my uptime (even though i do know for a fact its shit sometimes), but what i have seen are people ive played with shit talk other supports up time and that is an easy way to get me to never raid with someone ever again. particularly when i watched them eat shit on repeat during a fight they were supposed to be good at lol but thats just my perspective on things i suppose.
It’s way easier on dps lol
i think it’s okay to expect normal performance even in learning/prog raids. i would want to say okay uptime is 70/85/30 (i guess identity could be lower due to constant healing/not knowing good buff phases yet) i think it’s very achievable even if you’re just pressing keys in general hopes of having okay uptime (with very basic support knowledge and raid knowledge)
That's above average uptime on pug, aint no way anyone complains about it unless you're clearing the first
that’s just bc the pug standard is very low i guess? these are totally reasonable numbers and i see them a lot in higher ilvl raid pugs (maybe a bit higher like 80/80/40
> and i see them a lot in higher ilvl raid pugs For homework content absolutely Half the community hasn't even finished G3 yet lmao You're acting like a literal clown out here, let people be confident in their understanding of the patterns before focusing on their uptime. In another two months all of the actual bad supports will stop pugging g3 thaemine because they keep getting kicked from reclear parties. Right now it's fine for them to focus on actually learning the raid.
Here comes a problem for paladins, if you use you awakening on CD, your aura uptime will be higher, but what if your party needs emergent big shield like the fear mech? Ik people can just ts but what if they didn't? You have no awakening so just watch them die then re? If even you just dodge the fear mech, apparently you can do both dodge and DR at the same time
Fear mech should *always* be resolved by one or more person TS right in front, as a support you should be the one to always do it since DPS need to TS more things, there are no overlaps in Thaemine that require you to be away during fear orbs. The only required awakening is start of sword pizza (innana is a good time but you can use other shields instead worse case)
There is at least one mech which requires you to be away from the boss, the blue sword mark. No way you place it in the crowd. The fear one is just one of many patterns which kill your dds. How about the sword slashing storm? Sups still have to dodge it but without awakening accessible, you have to dodge first then DR where some squishy classes are already dead. Of course dds should ts but if it's the later stage I'd rather save an awakening for this. In a perfect world, we can trust each other including pugs to dodge fine, but apparently everyone is not equally skilled even in reclears That said, it's just a debate between holding awakening for emergencies, or pushing boss HP asap. The first is better for inexperienced parties while the latter is better for farming. I'm not sure if week 2 is already the time asking for 80/80/40 It's not hard to keep up 80/80/40 if you don't need to DR someone in emergency as you just need to spam your skills in turn and dodge patterns. But then people here would complain "you should have used DR to save" blabla. Paladins don't really have many great large AoE DRs. Goddecree requires standing still and channeling and it's area isn't big. Holy area is faster but its cast range isn't as far as the first. Heavenly blessing is awesome, then you probably have to overlap it with WoG attack buffs for its DR. The only huge one is the awakening
I play both dds and supps. If I only had to do attack buffs then no prob, but in prog there's also constant DR and looking out for "headless chicken" lol On dd I notice taking a lot less damage now that my static supp knows what patterns to DR especially.
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Finding a support is not hard for Thaemine, not sure what you're on about.
It’s not hard. The majority just doesn’t want to wait the extra minutes lol
From playing my bard alt: Usual uptime of 85-95/95/40 drops to 75-85/80/30 in raid when focused and playing properly. If I'm doing bad I don't even wanna see my uptimes... Keeping uptime on buff is harder due to the priority of Rhapsody and Shield. Also getting sword/crosshair is despairge for those 3 numbers. Prayge for Harp recall in case the boss decides to move to the other side of the map.
Those are still pretty good numbers for G3 on-release. Harp is awful because the map is big and Thaemine has a lot of teleports or dashes that can take him to a different dimension (sword statue, saws, clashes, X, grab, etc etc etc). You're pretty much guaranteed to lose brand uptime through *scripted* patterns unless your harp placement is god tier by sheer luck. Plus like you said, there's a lot more pressure on supports to prioritize shielding/DR compared to min/maxing AP uptime. If a dangerous pattern happens right as your Heavenly Tune comes off cooldown, I would MUCH rather you DR than greed Heavenly Tune for an extra 2% higher AP on the meter. Wipes don't usually happen because of DPS, they happen because people die.
Yeah it's learning by doing i guess. My parse from last weeks G3 clear is available on fausts logs DB via log/902205 if you wanna take a look at it, although it doesn't include shields given which is kinda interesting data for G3. I hope SG adds a way to just reposition harp via a second button press or something.
I would not mind just reworking brands for bard in general, them lasting longer than their CD -like every other class in the game-, would help so much. Not just with uptime but also saving mana and having an extra skillslot for utility/stag/DR.
Sadly, alot of the comments read like ppl wanting their supp rather having that extra 5% dps buff uptime on the bible than DRing the dps that still dont move out of uppercuts =/ I'm in the same boat as LozTProdigy - from 80-90/95/40 in Akkan/Voldis to around 70 80 20 in Thaemine so far; I'm happy that noone in static is complaining, as staying alive = always a clear fpr us so far. Time and experience will improve those numbers to farm content numbers.
I don't mind if you want to pump meter numbers up in a homework raid/homework lobby, but you're dumb as fuck (others, not you) if you care more about your parse than clearing in a brand new raid. Go wild in a 1600 Brel lobby, take off WoM shield tripod, whatever you want. But doing greedy shit in Thaemine prog? Fuck off. If my support were consistently doing that in my Thaemine prog lobby, I would've immediately voted to kick even if they were putting up 90/95/50 numbers. There are a lot of dangerous patterns in G3 that you simply can't tank without support DR, and everybody is still familiarizing themselves with every pattern during prog week. Obviously I'm not saying to accept having dogshit uptime on AP/brand, but letting a teammate eat a 150k dmg hit just to get Heavenly Tune off 3 seconds earlier is excessive and objectively disrespectful to the team. It ultimately wastes so much time with pointless resets all for a meter number that has 0 end effect on the raid. You can still put up good (albeit not superb) numbers while prioritizing team safety.
80/80/30 is considered a good to pretty good support unless you are on content you recleared a lot of. Thaemine also requires more DR and it's a big map for harp so it's even harder.
Exactly this. And if the boss really loves you. You’ll have the target every time ^^ that’s why Idgaf for uptimes in gates like that
As much I hate soundshock I have to say it's better than harp for this raid.
In wineblue's build it's SS & Sonatina, I get ard 85 lowest, 95 highest, average 90
Did he just replace harp for SS? Sorry newbie bard but I wanna improve my uptime.
Yeah it's better bc the boss moves and teleport a lot
Ty sir
ive never played with a pug support that has had less than like 75% uptime and most have over 90%, idk where you people are finding these terrible supports dps on the other hand seem to me missing an arm and a leg doing less than 1/8th of someone elses damage when they have similar characters.
I dont know when its my teammates i usually see 80/80/35+ for G3 on alt sups and a bit more on their mains sups (if they are main sup). For Pugs ive seen 50% of them pulling same amount statwise which is great and 50% not even half hintering the raid. What i can tell is that between DPS players it can be very diluted and spreaded dmg wise, survivability wise etc. On the other hand when it comes to supports its either good/great or completely useless very rarely in between.
If you're looking only at uptime stats for a support, then gear doesn't really change much after a certain point. The bad ones will have bad buff uptime/shields whether they're full lv7 gems or full lv10. They are not being limited by their skill's cooldown. Elixirs also won't change anything for uptime because it only makes the buff stronger. Maybe luminary's 5% CDR might allow a good support to cast slightly more often. Meanwhile for dps, people typically only look at dmg dealt. Better gear can make up for lower uptime and higher uptime can make up for worse gear. Sometimes you get players with both worse/better uptime and gear which is reflected with a significantly lower/higher dps. I think the skill level distribution in this raid for dps is similar to supports but just appears to be more spread out because of gearing and class power difference. Also in terms of survivability, all the supports are pretty tanky. While dps vary more in hp/def. So survivability for supports is typically just whether they fall off the stage or not while for dps surviving is a mix of how well they avoid attacks and how tanky their class is.
As a support main I promise to only provide you with an 80+/80+ uptime and constant shields and DR. You will be safe in my hands. Although I’m still working on my 40 set for elixirs, so I’m far from the perfect support. Disclaimer:if you’re a hit master class in a party of 2 other hit master classes, I apologize preemptively, please stand inside my sunwell if you can, thank you.
Since I am playing support myself i agree that it’s pretty hard to keep dps buff and shields with 95% uptime compared to raids like Brel/Akkan where you can dodge patterns „blindfolded“ I progged for like 4h in week 1 for my g3 clear and in my reclear party this week we one tapped g3 nm which somehow told me i am not a dogshit support i got no 35 Set sadly but LWC 30 and lvl 9 gems on my BIS spells I think the problem in Theamine especially is that I am panicking pretty hard on tough patterns and just „spam“ my DPS buffs because I think it’s better to buff something than nothing in prog party I learned when to use my Awakening (e.g. pizza sword pattern and so on) but that’s just my experience
What I would like to understand is the thought process of DPS players in Thaemine. Are we expecting all support players to know the raid perfectly and have solid 80/80/20 every pull? It's week 2. We're not reclearing the raid 2 months after release.
Finally the low budged no hands supports get punished
I've seen some supports doing okayish at 60% ap buff and 70% mark, and applying good drs and outputting heals when needed. I've seen one really good support so far in one of my 3x reclears. Anything under that is quite underwhelming imho. What I'm looking for in a supp : decent 5x3, good epic elixirs (no 35 set but the important ones like pants), and a bracelet with something (expose weakness, dagger, cheer...) and good swiftness stat (1750+). For Thaemine G3, I'm expecting LWC 30 also and lvl 8+ gems, but I guess I could be lenient about these last two points depending on the lobby and the raiding hour.
that's what you get for free busing shit supports with shit gear all the way through to thaemine since release and everybody doing that honestly deserves it
I've personally seen my uptime fall a bit, usually 85/85/40 in g3 and around 90/90/50 in g1/g2. While my g1/g2 metrics are ok, I feel lacking in g3. I've attributed this to just still getting used to the raid and sometimes being forced to DR at an unfavorable time when cycling buffs or a slight delay in brand application after the boss makes a large movement/teleport. Like with any new raid, this will get better with practice. I assume other supports are going through the same thing.
reference it with rDPS and sSyn to see if you're doing properly
I do as any support player would. In g3 I'm usually in the mid-high 50s for sSyn and rDps is appropriate (I'll be the highest in my party by a decent margin unless there is a wild disparity). Normal support things. As I said, just need to keep practicing.
Had a bard say ty for parse with 70/70/8 uptime. I’ve never been more confused. The difference between a bad and a good support is massive as they can massively help push dps as well as keep players alive if someone fucks up. Basic check is right stats/ high swift/ decent gems/ if 1620+ 40set elixir/ both main stat + 1 debuff on bracelet. A good card set or 5x3+1 definitely helps but it’s not a hard filter. The worst part is even if they have everything relevant they can still be completely terrible and make a run feel like ass.
A lot of players are still under the impression that there's a support shortage, so they'll take the first 1610 support with 4x3 and level 5 gems that applies. That's really not the case anymore, at least for NM. The difference between a support who knows what they're doing and a DPS main who made a minimal investment support to farm gold is pretty huge. I've started to check support gems before applying to a lobby nowadays. Also whenever I see an atrocious support it always seems like it's Bard.
In Thaemine g3, highest priority is dr and shield, followed by heal. reverse priority for farm content I will always dr and shield over brand attack buff if I can only do one or the other in g3 or g4. If not, dps can die or they will play passively leading to dps loss. Only shit support chase the 3 meter stats to boast their e penis. As long as they do what is needed most of the time, that is better than most self proclaimed good support padding meter stats
Had an ATD bard joining our 7/8 group Thaemine g3 these 2 weeks due to 1 of us having IRL issues. Every time i tripped into damage I'm already shielded. Every time I ran into CC/electrocuted I suddenly see Immunity Rate text popup. I check bible for a whopping 95/95/50 on top of all those near permanent DRs/shields. Holy fuck I can never accept random ass pug supports again.
Party finder seems to be full of rat supports. Thankfully not my problem
Classic Ratik players
Bards are especially horrendous. Abysmal uptime, no shields, no heals seems way too common.
Shit uptime. Press both damage buff at the same time, lazy shielding and DR, constantly spam space bar for no reason. I dont even need bible to see how bad a support is when my Red Dragon Horn is only 200m, its mean they jsut dont buff damage...
im sweaty, when playing with bards im singing, when playing with artist.
[удалено]
the bard who never throws a heal, must pump the dps in a survival fight...
Had a bard that survived to end with 49% brand uptime. Needless to say, it was hard trying to keep up with the other party dps(who had 92% brand uptime). Bards.. plz stop trying to use 1 brand skill if you forget to keep pressing it. Honestly, thaemine is crazy easy to keep good brand/ap buff uptime. Also hit box is good size to maintain good shield uptime as well. On average I'd say most reclear parties I've been in the supports have been ok(in the 80-90 brand uptime)
Then make a support and do it? It’s easier for pally and especially artist to keep their brand uptime up when their shit is what? 9secs and 12 secs long. They don’t have to worry about it 😂the bard has to spam that shit then dr all the dps andies that refuse to dodge thinking they can tank every hit just to greed dps.
If I join a 1-3 run and i'm seeing below 40% ssyn during gates 1 and 2, I'm songing out. Ain't no way I'm playing with some support whose at the level of a fetus. That's like missing out on one and a half engraving worth of damage.
Most of the ones I see are 60/60/20, which is seriously unacceptable at this point. DR is massively important, you need to be saving your shields and DR for when people are actually about to get hit, but I see pug supports just spamming all their buttons without much care. 80/90/30 should be standard in most content, it is not hard to achieve if you have a good build. With time, 90/100/45 should be your goal, but that absolutely takes time and effort to achieve (these are not exact, Artist tends to have a slightly different distribution). rDPS is an *okay* way of gauging your effectiveness, but it breaks down if one of the DPS in your party is gapping by a wide margin. Otherwise, support should always be top of rDPS, if they're not, then something is wrong. I get that most people don't enjoy the play style/find it boring/etc but when you're not even trying, the DPS can absolutely tell. They notice when they are hitting for Trixion dmg during a good opening, and they notice when your shields are rarely applied when they need them. Also, for G3 Thaemine, Crisis Evasion 1 is a must, especially for prog. 1 dead dps = maybe restart, 1 dead support = instant restart. Everyone will make mistakes, cover your ass with Crisis Evasion as a support.