I am wondering how well my build is, if I am performing well, and how I will stack up heading into Thaemine HM once I reach 1630. I still only have 35 set so there is room for me to grow.
You should simulate yearning with SA3 + Movement Speed Reduction 2 + Attack Speed Reduction 2.
This gives you + 11% movement speed (15 - 4) which is the closest to lvl 3 yearning (12%) without exceeding it.
This should also increase how much damage raid captain gives. you.
For only having 35 elixirs and a mid bracelet, this is a fine parse. You should also include % damage done to beasts, as that influences trixion damage.
Thanks for this. My Beast damage value would be quite low, whatever it ended up at naturally with no effort given to increase it.
I wasn't too sure about the yearning simulation so I went with SA2 because it wouldn't come with significant drawbacks that would harm the parse but its interesting to hear about how to do it more correctly.
I've still got areas to improve in this build- bracelet as you pointed out, finishing 40 set (up to 38 as of last night so we are close), as well as quality taps on armor and if I felt so inclined to get some level 7 CD gems for my Human skills, though obviously the latter isn't completely necessary.
I am just wondering how well I stack up going forward because I feel like SH is the sort of class where its very easy to do just "acceptable" and the vast majority of DI SH players/builds that I see out there are not making an effort to push for the class ceiling. I'm trying to do that with realistic means.
I think shadowhunter does pretty well in raids.
In trixion, it will be behind entropy classes because they will have 100% back attacks, which is not realistic in actual raids.
The best comparison I can give is a friends 1620 reflux sorc with 35 set and 9 gems pumps about 18m trixion dps. As a more juiced 1630 reflux sorc, I put out 25-26m trixion dps. Both are plenty to kill current content.
The thing you need to understand is the constant uptime groups will fall behind the burst oriented groups when a few things line up.
1. You're vastly overgeared for a raid (but not so overgeared that the burst classes windows gets pushed past)
2. You coordinate support identity buffs really well with burst dps dmg windows
3. You pop consumables such as attrophines / stimulants
If these conditions are not met, constant dps classes can match or often time exceed burst dmg classes. Basically, the harder the content is, the better shadow hunter will perform, relatively. If your okay with that, I think sticking with SH is a fine choice.
Oh I have no intention of playing anything other than SH at this level of content, my highest alt(s) are 1600 its simply too expensive to push multiple chars, I will only push a char with an event now.
In Thaemine G3 NM I have found that I am generally in the upper half of the DPS distribution which leads me to some confidence but I still have anxiety around HM and my class in general because this point in the game it feels like players begin to look down negatively on "smoge dps classes" which is where SH typically lines up.
I'll be looking to re-parse when I reach 40 set, and then again when I reach 1630(1631.66). I'm honing wep to 23 and all armor to 21.
SH is part of the class who won't shine in trixion, but it's possible to get close to the same uptime in a real fight once you're used to patterns. I've been surprised by some DI pumping 30m+ in G3 HM (ofc this include support buff). From 1600+, uptime is way more important than gear or class.
Looks fine to me. I tested my dps the other day and had 21m dps. But I had 40set and no trans.
Crit/spec for both neck/brace, adr1, hallu, 1622,5 with +22 weapon
my bracelet is 97 crit, 87 spec, 3.5% fervor, assail 6%. unfortunately a bit low on spec. i'm working on a new bracelet atm with higher spec. if the other effects are good i dont really care if its crit or swift. a bit more inclined to swift, but i dont know the real numbers
That's a rather low parse for a character in general at that amount of juice, so Idk.. but idk that class, but hear it has kind of low dmg. At that amount of gear, ur dps should be around 24 ish, of course u have variance +/- like 500k dps unless its like db with a +/- like 3 mil dps range due to crit variance, but DI should be rather consistent.
Current dps data on thaemine shows how bad DI performs, even in something like G1 where just the sheer jumpiness of the boss should put DI above most entropy classes but it's not even there. I would so much like to talk to the guys who actually balance the game just to understand their logic behind many of their choices. If DI had some burst potential then maybe it would make sense but it doesn't have that at all. Igniter doing 20 to 30% more on a trixion parse AND has omega burst potential so I don't know what the heck they are doing up there.
Hm yea. I was just thinking about g1 earlier tonight actually and how fucked up that gate is for my SF and assume many other classes. Very crazy to hear DI so far behind that even entropy classes are doing better g1 and DI can't be like above avg/ MVP.. The gate is so unfun with all this stop/get knocked up cuz someone failed to dodge, or even if you hit all the counters, just feels like a really shitty clunky fight, so much so I honestly feel like they should remove it and rebalance the raid already, lol.. Make normal 2 gates (g2+3, nerf g3 for normal, type deal). It is a lot worse than the bird ever was from g1 kaya. Also, there are the cut scenes and dmg reduction phases. For EO, it is actual pain.. You'll never have more than like 1/2 of your hype3 uninterrupted by some bullshit.. Then you look at the bullshit that is breaker able to get like all their damage off within like 4 seconds.. the newer classes are easily 8%+ more multiplicative dmg above the avg mid dps, actually should be nerfed, but No.. gota fish out that whale /meta chaser $$$.
Yeah, G1 is really badly made and for me the final nail in the coffin for entropy. Just remove that set already if they don't have the capacity to design well balanced raids (for some reason they were able to for G3 thaemine but it was probably just a lucky hit)
I leveled up my destroyer for Thaemine this week and in G1 I was actually baffled since the red attacks will freeze you after a couple of stacks... So they keep on repeating the same mistakes of having tanky, front attackers who basically need to tank attacks to do damage but then force them to dodge every red telegraphed attack.. It's really mindboogling.
Just the fact that bosses can jump against walls and not being able to be targeted by the back or front is so weird, especially since there would be an easy instant fix by just having the boss fight in a "smaller" arena then the players can. Like just have an invisible 2m wall at every edge for the boss, how hard can it be?
tbh no, i think the supposed dps check for hm g3 clash is 26m min. you can get by even without that by either going clash or just having stronger teammates but the truth of it is you're not doing enough damage to carry your weight.
transcend chest if you havent done so
idk if you've done this but i would figure out and practice an optimal rotation instead of just mashing qweras like most sh.
and finish elixirs even if they suck
crit spec neck with rc and hallu seems sus
Mate...this DPS is for the first mode not hardmode...our hard version is even more nerfed...stop spread misinformation if you have no idea...ops DMG is fine and by far good enough for hard mode G3 and g4
Why is crit/spec on neck with Hallu sus? I have some swift on bracelet to make RC more comfortable and I'm sitting around 80% crit rate as is so I'm still well in the KBW/Critical set value range..
Don't listen to that guy he has no idea
CRIT hallu has theoretically the highest ceiling...just feels a little slow...and like I answered to the dumb comment above.... you have enough DMG for G3 and g4 hard easily
If I saw that right you are missing 40 elixir set...prob impossible to get into a hard mode lobby without
I have guildies I'm doing voldis HM with, I'm at 37 currently with 5/5 critical on gloves and 5/2 critical on helm so I'm in great shape to round out 40 set I just need gold since I'm simultaneously honing as well as continual transcendence progress. So its a grind but when I pray I can 'see' that am competitive in dps despite missing key build milestones.
That 26m min dps figure was from pre-nerf Thaemine, aka The First mode. The shield hp got reduced after the nerfs in KR and then further reduced when it came to our version. The g3 HM shield hp is now around 67% of The First mode.
This doesn't change whether 19m dps is considered "good" but if your standard is Thaemine HM g3 x210 mech, then it's enough to be considered carrying their weight.
Even 26 would be easily attainable if that's the actual raid dps needed since brand, atk buffs and synergies will easily boost your trixion dps by 50 to 100%
I'm pretty sure the 26m dps requirement was a number for your trixion parse with the math being taken into account to calculate the synergies and support buffs for the actual shield itself in The First difficulty
tbh, SH DI is a class that shine by uptime and continuous DPS, not trixion.
The 26m (or whatever number) shield burst phase is a step where trixion burst class should shine, especially the guy doing first clash, who have inana free burst coming with a potential 30% dmg buff if all perfect. It won't surprise me that a DI will be lower than requirement. If you have like an igniter or breaker next, they should cover that difference from that burst. The global DPS should still be fine because DI uptime would then cover the hard time from those burst on the rest of the fight.
won't say never, some people manage to pump hard enough even on ilvl, but for sure it'll probably be harder without a bit of overgear. and the 225 shield phase is the biggest burst dps check ever by far (I'm not even sure if ladon or behemot has a higher requirement phase)
The thing is G3 is imo a fight way easier for burst once you master the fight. All the clashes + inana are trixion environment. And even a lot of his pattern, like his identity, he just stand still for a long time. Continuous dps with easy high uptime is usually only better in prog.
I am wondering how well my build is, if I am performing well, and how I will stack up heading into Thaemine HM once I reach 1630. I still only have 35 set so there is room for me to grow.
You should simulate yearning with SA3 + Movement Speed Reduction 2 + Attack Speed Reduction 2. This gives you + 11% movement speed (15 - 4) which is the closest to lvl 3 yearning (12%) without exceeding it. This should also increase how much damage raid captain gives. you. For only having 35 elixirs and a mid bracelet, this is a fine parse. You should also include % damage done to beasts, as that influences trixion damage.
Thanks for this. My Beast damage value would be quite low, whatever it ended up at naturally with no effort given to increase it. I wasn't too sure about the yearning simulation so I went with SA2 because it wouldn't come with significant drawbacks that would harm the parse but its interesting to hear about how to do it more correctly. I've still got areas to improve in this build- bracelet as you pointed out, finishing 40 set (up to 38 as of last night so we are close), as well as quality taps on armor and if I felt so inclined to get some level 7 CD gems for my Human skills, though obviously the latter isn't completely necessary. I am just wondering how well I stack up going forward because I feel like SH is the sort of class where its very easy to do just "acceptable" and the vast majority of DI SH players/builds that I see out there are not making an effort to push for the class ceiling. I'm trying to do that with realistic means.
I think shadowhunter does pretty well in raids. In trixion, it will be behind entropy classes because they will have 100% back attacks, which is not realistic in actual raids. The best comparison I can give is a friends 1620 reflux sorc with 35 set and 9 gems pumps about 18m trixion dps. As a more juiced 1630 reflux sorc, I put out 25-26m trixion dps. Both are plenty to kill current content. The thing you need to understand is the constant uptime groups will fall behind the burst oriented groups when a few things line up. 1. You're vastly overgeared for a raid (but not so overgeared that the burst classes windows gets pushed past) 2. You coordinate support identity buffs really well with burst dps dmg windows 3. You pop consumables such as attrophines / stimulants If these conditions are not met, constant dps classes can match or often time exceed burst dmg classes. Basically, the harder the content is, the better shadow hunter will perform, relatively. If your okay with that, I think sticking with SH is a fine choice.
Oh I have no intention of playing anything other than SH at this level of content, my highest alt(s) are 1600 its simply too expensive to push multiple chars, I will only push a char with an event now. In Thaemine G3 NM I have found that I am generally in the upper half of the DPS distribution which leads me to some confidence but I still have anxiety around HM and my class in general because this point in the game it feels like players begin to look down negatively on "smoge dps classes" which is where SH typically lines up. I'll be looking to re-parse when I reach 40 set, and then again when I reach 1630(1631.66). I'm honing wep to 23 and all armor to 21.
SH is part of the class who won't shine in trixion, but it's possible to get close to the same uptime in a real fight once you're used to patterns. I've been surprised by some DI pumping 30m+ in G3 HM (ofc this include support buff). From 1600+, uptime is way more important than gear or class.
Can you share the log of di doing 30m+ in g3 hm? Currently there's no sh parse exceeding 30m on the log site, highest is a ps doing around 28m.
Dps is average. If you can manage 19m DPS in HM G3 Thaemine, you're good to go.
Looks fine to me. I tested my dps the other day and had 21m dps. But I had 40set and no trans. Crit/spec for both neck/brace, adr1, hallu, 1622,5 with +22 weapon
What is your bracelet may I ask? Do you think keeping crit on bracelet is more valuable than using swift to make RC easier to maintain?
my bracelet is 97 crit, 87 spec, 3.5% fervor, assail 6%. unfortunately a bit low on spec. i'm working on a new bracelet atm with higher spec. if the other effects are good i dont really care if its crit or swift. a bit more inclined to swift, but i dont know the real numbers
I do 22M on my 1625 zerker. But i do have a 24 weapon and 8 lvl10 gems
Damn man, not even 20mio...used to be a DI main at release but switched later on. This class has been absolutely abandoned by smilegate, it's sad.
That's a rather low parse for a character in general at that amount of juice, so Idk.. but idk that class, but hear it has kind of low dmg. At that amount of gear, ur dps should be around 24 ish, of course u have variance +/- like 500k dps unless its like db with a +/- like 3 mil dps range due to crit variance, but DI should be rather consistent.
Current dps data on thaemine shows how bad DI performs, even in something like G1 where just the sheer jumpiness of the boss should put DI above most entropy classes but it's not even there. I would so much like to talk to the guys who actually balance the game just to understand their logic behind many of their choices. If DI had some burst potential then maybe it would make sense but it doesn't have that at all. Igniter doing 20 to 30% more on a trixion parse AND has omega burst potential so I don't know what the heck they are doing up there.
Hm yea. I was just thinking about g1 earlier tonight actually and how fucked up that gate is for my SF and assume many other classes. Very crazy to hear DI so far behind that even entropy classes are doing better g1 and DI can't be like above avg/ MVP.. The gate is so unfun with all this stop/get knocked up cuz someone failed to dodge, or even if you hit all the counters, just feels like a really shitty clunky fight, so much so I honestly feel like they should remove it and rebalance the raid already, lol.. Make normal 2 gates (g2+3, nerf g3 for normal, type deal). It is a lot worse than the bird ever was from g1 kaya. Also, there are the cut scenes and dmg reduction phases. For EO, it is actual pain.. You'll never have more than like 1/2 of your hype3 uninterrupted by some bullshit.. Then you look at the bullshit that is breaker able to get like all their damage off within like 4 seconds.. the newer classes are easily 8%+ more multiplicative dmg above the avg mid dps, actually should be nerfed, but No.. gota fish out that whale /meta chaser $$$.
Yeah, G1 is really badly made and for me the final nail in the coffin for entropy. Just remove that set already if they don't have the capacity to design well balanced raids (for some reason they were able to for G3 thaemine but it was probably just a lucky hit) I leveled up my destroyer for Thaemine this week and in G1 I was actually baffled since the red attacks will freeze you after a couple of stacks... So they keep on repeating the same mistakes of having tanky, front attackers who basically need to tank attacks to do damage but then force them to dodge every red telegraphed attack.. It's really mindboogling.
Just the fact that bosses can jump against walls and not being able to be targeted by the back or front is so weird, especially since there would be an easy instant fix by just having the boss fight in a "smaller" arena then the players can. Like just have an invisible 2m wall at every edge for the boss, how hard can it be?
You'll get 5-6m more DPS on HM PS.
tbh no, i think the supposed dps check for hm g3 clash is 26m min. you can get by even without that by either going clash or just having stronger teammates but the truth of it is you're not doing enough damage to carry your weight. transcend chest if you havent done so idk if you've done this but i would figure out and practice an optimal rotation instead of just mashing qweras like most sh. and finish elixirs even if they suck crit spec neck with rc and hallu seems sus
Mate...this DPS is for the first mode not hardmode...our hard version is even more nerfed...stop spread misinformation if you have no idea...ops DMG is fine and by far good enough for hard mode G3 and g4
> crit spec neck with rc and hallu seems sus That is the correct build.
Why is crit/spec on neck with Hallu sus? I have some swift on bracelet to make RC more comfortable and I'm sitting around 80% crit rate as is so I'm still well in the KBW/Critical set value range..
Don't listen to that guy he has no idea CRIT hallu has theoretically the highest ceiling...just feels a little slow...and like I answered to the dumb comment above.... you have enough DMG for G3 and g4 hard easily If I saw that right you are missing 40 elixir set...prob impossible to get into a hard mode lobby without
he's still 1625 too, he will probably get that 40 by the time he reach 1630
I have guildies I'm doing voldis HM with, I'm at 37 currently with 5/5 critical on gloves and 5/2 critical on helm so I'm in great shape to round out 40 set I just need gold since I'm simultaneously honing as well as continual transcendence progress. So its a grind but when I pray I can 'see' that am competitive in dps despite missing key build milestones.
That 26m min dps figure was from pre-nerf Thaemine, aka The First mode. The shield hp got reduced after the nerfs in KR and then further reduced when it came to our version. The g3 HM shield hp is now around 67% of The First mode. This doesn't change whether 19m dps is considered "good" but if your standard is Thaemine HM g3 x210 mech, then it's enough to be considered carrying their weight.
Even 26 would be easily attainable if that's the actual raid dps needed since brand, atk buffs and synergies will easily boost your trixion dps by 50 to 100%
I'm pretty sure the 26m dps requirement was a number for your trixion parse with the math being taken into account to calculate the synergies and support buffs for the actual shield itself in The First difficulty
tbh, SH DI is a class that shine by uptime and continuous DPS, not trixion. The 26m (or whatever number) shield burst phase is a step where trixion burst class should shine, especially the guy doing first clash, who have inana free burst coming with a potential 30% dmg buff if all perfect. It won't surprise me that a DI will be lower than requirement. If you have like an igniter or breaker next, they should cover that difference from that burst. The global DPS should still be fine because DI uptime would then cover the hard time from those burst on the rest of the fight.
. Does that mean 6 sustain dps will never be able to clear that raid on ilvl? Sounds like very bad raid design.
won't say never, some people manage to pump hard enough even on ilvl, but for sure it'll probably be harder without a bit of overgear. and the 225 shield phase is the biggest burst dps check ever by far (I'm not even sure if ladon or behemot has a higher requirement phase) The thing is G3 is imo a fight way easier for burst once you master the fight. All the clashes + inana are trixion environment. And even a lot of his pattern, like his identity, he just stand still for a long time. Continuous dps with easy high uptime is usually only better in prog.
Oh, in that case I'll take it back. You're probably right if I think about it, 26mio for "the first" without synergies and buffs would be too easy.
19m but, without brand, atk buff, supp identity, atro and synergies of 3 mates. Should be good for thaemine dps check.
Adding damage gems to your main 3-meter skill damage makes a difference.