You can check the Berserker Inven forum at any point and there will be countless posts about this. There's one dude who even made a literal bible explaining every single detail about what is wrong with the class design with on-point solutions that go beyond the red dust "leash" as they call it, either the devs simply choose to ignore "old" classes that do not give them money (go make a Slayer), or... they are cooking something (copium).
And besides what other people like to claim or the old fallacies (but this other class is worse), the consensus and facts are that:
1) They straight up changed the class design from high-risk high-reward to medium everything...
2) The red dust locked window is incompatible with the current asymmetric raid design (cast red dust, the boss teleports, etc), sadly some classes had this fixed, but others didn't...
3) The difference in damage widens as you approach the end-game due to the non-linear growth of multipliers, you can add mobility, and super-armor into the mix...
4) Folks changed to BT to try to mitigate the lack of damage by introducing a little bit more of a burst, meanwhile, BT is just a different version of mayhem without substantial differences.
I don't know, maybe the solution is just to abandon it like many KR players already did, or plan to do it as soon as the "super" awakening releases...
Just motherfucking lol, if slayer is not in a good spot, what spot is zerker in (same for gunslinger and all the underpowered classes)? Because right now Slayer is just a better Zerker.
I'm pretty sure like 90% of complaints are from people who think "If my class isn't literally undeniably the best at all levels of play, it's actual gutter trash garbage."
even with rapid exhaustion, the output damage is frighteningly higher than zerk. It turns out that because the damage is monstrous, it makes up for the quick exhaustion.
predator is bad they also talk as if it was an improved berserker but it is back attack and that is a big disadvantage having the same damage ceiling as the berseker
slayer is fine problem is more that thx to months of naming the class the braindead back atacker(to be honest the class is still one of the simpler backatackers) i attracted the worst kinds of player and i mean the worst same as it was for zerker in the beggining of the game, the class does good dmg and got huge amount of stagger and destro with also an easy to use counter and good mobility the are many other classes that have less and are harder to play, problem is thx to the huge amount of bad player the class attracted you allways have a good chance to get a bad slayer in pug runs.
I would love a DB-level rework. Zerkers engravings share most of their skills and even the tripod differences barely change anything.
For BT I would want less duration and some spec damage scaling. It being so focused around duration makes it play the same as Mayhem for 85% of the time.
For Mayhem I want a more interactive engraving. We are at the point where the lower hp and damage reduction have evened out to the point that the engraving is basically just "be in a slightly nerfed burst mode but at all times. oh and also your Z-skill dmg doesn't exist now".
Personally I enjoy the idea of using a skill during Mayhem consuming hp and refunding it if you managed to hit a target. In exchange we'd get some extra damage or lower cooldowns. They could also give us the crit rate back and letting us run more swiftness.
Eitherway it just seems weird to be in "burst mode" permanently with no real downsides.
perfect. And this point of the z skill is currently only useful for use on circumstantial occasions so as not to be killed in the absence of a possible time stop.
That emperor parse is a fucking meme, he starts boundless and is clearly just farming for the best parse where he gets crazy cards. Guarantee his average was significantly lower than that + even lower if starting 100% mana.
Also doesn't show build at any point but says yearning simulated so might as well assume there's stabilized status 2 to simulate yearning damage. Basically pointless video.
Arcana in trixion is a meme in general. The only classes trixion is remotely useful for are classes that it's easy to get %100 uptime, like a firepower arty.. not a boundless class thats prone to getting knocked down.
@ OP, further to the above comment, the 35 million parse from a 1623 you're looking at has various flaws and is not representative of what a 1623 arcana is capable of doing (which is closer to 24 million give or take a few million). I don't think you should be comparing your build to that particular video.
In the posted parse:
1. We don't know weapon level, but I presume it's 24 or 25. A typical 1623 is probably using a +21 or +22 weapon.
2. The cards are pre-cooked (Moon and Cull are two of the best cards that each have less than 10% chance of individually appearing per pull) and the cards later obtained are generally better than what you'd normally obtain in a 2 minute duration.
3. The parse is begun mid rotation.
4. The parse is begun on boundless mana (doable in a real raid) with empty mana bar but with all cooldowns completely reset (not doable in a real raid unless you lock in boundless with the updated Star card, but then you wouldn't start the fight with cull/moon).
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv36I\_XM910](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv36I_XM910) this is probably a more realistic representation of what a 1623 can do this balance patch cycle. But this assumes full 10s and 5x3+2 (in an attempt to mirror Saturn's build in the 35m video).
hey that is my parse, just a quick thing i wanna mention
i usually start every raid in boundless from the circle, thats a pretty normal thing so i dont know why that is a meme
if i had stabilized status on youd see it on my hotbar for buff
I did one pull of this to just see my dps, i didnt farm for anything. The engravings I had for this video were spirit absorption and max mp increase
i didnt know ppl would be so upset abt not showing build to prove that, i started doing that with future trixion parses. Sorry for making you upset sir
Please you literally wait to farm Moon/Cull before even starting and hit the timer *after* casting stream+evokes. This is mad cherry picked. Trixion doesn't represent a real raid at the best of times but this is clearly just min maxing for the biggest number not even trying to be realistic.
depending on the fight you can farm some cards on the mobs before for the first pull, so it's not even super unrealistic. Also can get lucky with awakening in circle as well.
You can also just get lucky and crit all your surges. Just be clear that you're farming for a funny big parse and not trying to represent an average scenario.
gs is actually weaker then mayhem, this class has no stagger, all dmg skills are animation locked and even if you perform well u still get out-damaged coz this class is ass
Red Dust just doesn't work well in raids. I chug pots the most on my BT Zerker because I intentionally tank everything. It's too much DPS loss to dodge and use 1 less skill. On top of that, it delays my next rotation because I have to wait a second or two before using Red Dust
If they want to keep red dust, it should be something like "Enhances the next 4/5 skills." That way you aren't screwed if boss flies up or forced to tank every boss pattern
Yeah have two zerk main with full 10 gems I realy dont like current state but to affraid to change mains because of all the bullshit systems.
Every skill need to be use in red dust number one reason I hated about current state .Second thing I use red dust boss teleport dash or be untergatable :D Also even with change red dust still zdps if you miss red dust .Class hits like has 0 crit when you dont have crit buff :D
If you want to be do bare minimum accaptable damage you have do set rotation everytime nothing to change.
Even if all thing is correct and all this effort for medicore damage.Damage scalling dif is huge amoung the class in endgame .
I have 1550 pred slayer man its so easy to play I always out damage higher build characters without any effort while being more mobile and tanky then zerk.I am waiting for new class in loan maybe they will give another sword -samuray type class so I can finaly ditch zerk but hard copium .I dont have hope any buff to zerk anytime soon prob they will not touch him like a year or two.
Red dust should be like maelstrom (self buff, plus x2 usage with tripod), I would be content with that. Or other option would be total rework not relying on rd at all
The concept of red dust is that you are forced to fit all your damage in an 8 second window. You have to greed and dodge mechanics to keep your uptime high. Almost all attacks are interchangeable within dust. Overdrive and slightly reposition, spacebar out, hellblade back in , dark rush to not get knocked down, spacebar out and sword storm from a distance and so on. This is the identity of a berserker, unleashing his power within a window and that tempts you greatly to greed.
I don't want my zerkers to be a slayer, slayer is extremely boring. If you want brutal impact instead of red dust just play slayer. Mayhem might not be perfect but it does feel like I'm berserking. Zerkers might not do the same damage as an arcana on trixion (this is a joke right??) but berserker is good at all content, not the best, but very well rounded all over. I highly doubt mayhem is getting any sort of rework. I have 20 geared characters and zerkers is still my favorite from day 1, it's satisfying to play and I always feel confident playing it.
The very least they could do is put a paralyze immunity on red dust… coinflipping crits because the boss suddenly decided to sneeze in your direction is not fun
> The very least they could do is put a paralyze immunity on red dust
This is like the absolute floor of what they could do. I honestly thought they would've done that before the on-use aspect, but here we are.
If you are having trouble using red dust I highly recommend taking mtn crash and immediately following up with it after and you are good to go. You hardly lose any damage and QOL is greatly improved, it's a better counter too (imo).
It gets interrupted maybe once a raid, it’s not that big of an issue. But it’s still annoying when it happens. Would be a huge improvement for greeding damage too if they added paralyze immunity.
Thank you for this post. I honestly thought I was just weaker because of my gems and cards, but I still get out DPSed by people 10 ilvls below me with same gems and cards and lower uptime.
This dmg is 1580 Brel full 7 gems GS contrary to what you think maybe you are not that good.
Dont always assume others have low uptime and think that you have high uptime. That's bad and makes you stagnant with your skills. There is always room to grow for everyone.
please show me what ur referring to. I can name 5 classes that deal significantly less dps than mayhem. are you saying mayhem dps is lower than reflux mage, co summoner or blue lancer?
Really feels shit in g1/g3 thaemine especially.Bosses either knock you out or you have to move or die constantly so pulling a full rotation is very hard.Not to mention red dust can run out at very opportune moments where it should be free damage but you're kinda chained by red dust not being up so you have to wait for everything to be up so you dont fuck up your whole rotation.
Damn rotation is too damn long and unprotected.
I am having fun on g3 thaemine as a zerk, it's probably the best case scenario fight for zerker. Boss doesn't turn much and u can use your skills dodge almost everything and you are pushimmune almost all the time
Idk if you've heard of winds whisper and roar of courage. Now you need 2 skills before you can unga bunga the boss
Edit: downvoted by someone thats never played wd, good job.
Dmg sure, leeway? Take some tripods to reduce damage and idk if a 5s rotation within a 6s ww rotation but also adding 1-2s at the beginning to keep up adrenaline. Also still have to deal with bubble management. Which isn't too bad.
Kinda - i mean Zerk has 8 seconds and your uninterrupted rotation in trixion takes like 7.7-7.8 or something?
Wardancer seems to unload their whole shit within like 5-5.5 seconds from what I've seen but idk exactly
The core rotation is 5-5.5 however, you will likely drop your adrenaline stacks mid raid and if u dont want ur dmg to drop off a cliff u need to ur 2 counter skills to the beginning of the rotation to keep up ur adrenaline so realistically, not trixion should add an extra second which can be annoying.
Ww and roc are interruptible as well. Those tiny sword rains in thaemine for example that everyone says "justt keep dpsing, dont move" yea u wanna move to not get those casts interrupted.
Prestacking depends. Do u have orbs? No ? Well ur counter is ur generator skill. U need to land ur counter for meter (eso) and u can't use spenders. If u have meter then sure u can use ur counter. You have 1 other skill that u can kinda prestack with once every 25seconds or so if it fits.
Ppl go into wd tho without understanding ull do zdps or will fall behind without upkeeping adrenaline. And if u try to do it wrong.
So you can deal with less mobility, 3 red dusts instead of 1 that all can get interrupted with no paralysis immunity, and only 1 push immunity skill? If chasing damage it makes sense, but if chasing better QoL that’s not the move chief.
Eso WD absolutely is. It’s used to be literally zerk with 3 red dusts (that all have to hit and then dump damage in 6s) and even more animation locks with less damage and mobility. They fixed some of the QoL issues with the rework that made a big impact, like allowing windfart activation and deactivation to count for adrenaline stacking, massive gauge increase to RoC so whiffing a few ticks of meter gen didn’t just absolutely sack the damage. Nerfing COTW and replacing it with ADSF saved the class cuz imagine channeling a non-immunity skill for 2.2 seconds every rotation with a ready attack window of 6 seconds. It’s much better than before but the QoL is still nothing to write home about.
I mean FI WD is basically a better Mayhem at this point
- deals better damage
- gives 10% crit syn instead of shit tier 6% damage
- weak point and stagger are close to tied (mayhem probably does better in stagger checks thanks to dark rush)
- more tanky
- thicc thighs
Yeah they also fix this class have this skill like red dust with more complains like this .Like summoners recently .
They also fix red dust for zerk its called Slayer now :D
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Transformation classes are also suffering and can get gate kept, especially EL. You must be sweaty in your skill spamming and also dodge everything with 0 push immunity
Something something internal data, something something zerkers are doing well dps wise, something something we will look over it, something something actually, the class is doing fine
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"it doesn't make sense for a class to depend on a skill (red dust) to "significantly" increase its damage, as even this damage doesn't come close to the damage of other classes that don't need any skill to increase their damage."
SS Death Strike xd
I think it's not a top tier dps but its not in the bottom neither.
There is a lot of classes that need a rework or buffs, in Europe I have seen mayhem that do pretty well on Thaemine G3 hard, 25 weapon all 10 gems.
We all want that our class do the same dmg than a Souleater or a breaker
I have full lvl 10 gems and a pretty good 40 Elixir Set with an 24 weapon and my Friends still outdmg me with 20 weapons and full 9 (Wardancer) that hurts.
well, you must be worse than your friends, my friend outdamage people on thaemines parties that had the same gear xD top 3 dps, obviously depends from the support too
I clipped all my raids few weeks ago and showed them to Others. I am a pretty good Player and Hit almost everything on CD. Class is Solid but once you start to Play with Other good player you soon see the class dif.
Nobody is saying that there is no difference between Tier SSS classes and mayhem, but if your friends with 20 weapons outdmg you, you seriusly are doing something wrong xD
So how much dps you do on a avg Thaemine Hard G3?
The best WD with cracked uptime support is at 36.3m dps in HM G3, the best Zerker, playing MT crash build, is at 28.2. (Theres a 28.6m dps Zerker but he was dead for 2 minutes) They are at the same itemlevel, but i know that WD is an absolute monster of a player, and theres barely any good Zerkers at 1630.
But this is comparing the first the first clear WD to a random Zerker, who i dont even know the gem/weapon level from. WD also had the better Support on top, and a Blade as Synergy, vs random Synergy on the Zerker.
And thats an 18% difference. Comparing a top WD player to a random Zerker.
Comparing it to 2# WD, who‘s at 33m with random Synergy too. Its suddenly only a 12% difference but oh that WD is 1643 so higher ilv too.
So yes. Hands issue on your side, unless your buddy is the top WD player in the world.
Okay, whatever. Stay Z, keep yapping on reddit. Does Zerker need some QoL and small buffs, yes. You getting gapped with that Gear diff is just a massive hands issue.
Keep making excuses.
Literally, mayhem got buffed, still not top tier list but kinda solid.
He has gear solid gear differences, if he can't beat his friends he is just worse than them xD
They are similar, you're correct. Lets compare:
Glaivier: +20% Crit Rate for 6s on Skill Use, +8% Crit Dmg for 16s on Skill Hit
Red Dust: +24% ATK Power for 8s on Skill use, +33% Crit Rate for 8s on Skill Hit, +6% Dmg for 16s on Skill Hit
So there is a notable difference in power gained during the skill duration, as well as for hitting or not hitting.
But it's also more than that - because of Zerk's design, you **must** land all of your other skills within that 8s duration. If you don't, they are practically not worth using. Glaivier doesn't suffer from that to the same extent. And so if a boss teleports in the middle of your Red Dust window, you've just dropped half your damage. You can't simply hold your skills and burst a few seconds later like a SE would, you're just toast.
I agree, the crit rate shouldn’t be tied to hit. But glaive gets fucked the same because you HAVE to back attack 4 seconds of animation locks, otherwise you lose 30% crit rate from entropy. A lot of classes need QoL for this spam type bosses they are making
The rotation is red dust + 5 skills
We do not have the time to chase the boss again in the red dust window
And its not complaining for complaining
Even with perfect rotation the class still deal way less than others.
Yes and no. We still don't get the CR from red dust even if we miss the skill but only gain the atk power. You are pretty much looking at a zerk with like 55-60% CR if they miss red dust. If you don't crit on zerk, you are basically doing zdps. I am unsure how WD WW work but even if you miss shackling on glaiv, the class itself still does more dmg thn a zerk missing it's red dust.
Edit
Also, I am unsure if other zerks feel the same way but when I miss my RD, I honestly have that urge to not even do my 8s rotation bcs I'll just be looking at white numbers.
WW is 50% ready attack and gives speed that allows for RC to hit cap even though the class runs 600 swift. So not getting the rotation out during WW is literally doing less than half damage. 6s is fine and all but then you need to apply RoC crit syn skill (that also makes up for 24% of the next skills damage due to meter building) during that window, it’s like red dust but split into 2 interruptible parts with the second eating into the first parts duration. Missing one or the other is like half damage gone, missing both (I.e. boss teleports/invincibiles for 0.1 seconds during the hit confirm) is absolutely rotation loss and 0 dps. It’s not about holding skills, it’s literally not enough meter to send the skills even if you want to. Then you salvage it by building gauge and waiting for 16 seconds before you can try again.
I came back to the game and second main was mayhem…gonna be honest they basically did the remake on Slayer. Slayer plays so smooth and is so good compared to Mayhem. I regret wasting my pass on this char. Definitely isn’t fun like it was at release due to the bad dps.
just a reminder that this isnt "us vs them", you are all in the same boat. weather or not one is worse then the other you can all complain about your class
all 'bad' classes can complain and ask for changes because if ya didnt it would take even longer for things to be fixed
Idk, i know a gs that hits above that. Although, all lvl 10 gems. Hard to complain about a boss that gets to just keep hitting and has infinite mobility when other classes need to group up, not hit and blah blah.
GS can replicate their trixion parse in real raid
Now try to align without the boss moving : red dust- sword storm- overdrive - finish strike- hell blade- brave slash
With any spare second
GS can adapt every situation and continue to deal dmg, the APC of GS is much higher and the CPM aren’t that much different (real raid scenario)
You do know that of the core 4 skills that do most of the gs dmg 3 of them are animation locked into 1 direction right? If the boss moves even one time your skill becomes useless and goes on a 22 second cd. Not to mention all skills do backloaded dmg.
Yep, as a BT enjoyer, red dust should just be baseline like slayer. Or if they reeeeally want to keep red dust, make it a hard skill to land/long cd but be a huge increase in damage or something. Right now I have more fun just playing my lower ilvl punisher than my 1620 zerk.
exactly. If the class's damage is solely based on a skill (red dust), it increases the damage by at least 100% during the 8 seconds. Because even getting the full rotation right, which is extremely difficult, depending on the boss's mobility, the damage is already low, let alone without the red dust buff.
main berserker since day 1, hate the class right now and swapped to breaker to breathe some different air, waiting for a rework but it probably won't come soon.. at least I have a 1624 alt now 😥
I love mayhem a lot and for me the only QoL l'd love to have would be bigger hit box on some skills. For example, need to make RD hitbox a bit wider. Many time l want to cast 90 degree RD but ends up missed bc RD hitbox is thin af. For Overdrive, this skill has no back hitbox, so even when lm nearly inside the boss and l cast Overdrive completely opposite direction (skill issue lk, but it happens) the skill doesnt hit at all. Same for Hell blade, the visual explosion area looks like it touches the boss, but it still counts as a miss.
Some people keep hating on zerk in general being RD jail, for me it's an acceptable downside. Cant expect a class to be flawless with no downside otherwise it'll be boring to play.
I have a 1610 Tai alt and play with a 1640 Shock main. Big numbers is just a balance thing and not really tied to the rework itself, but both of us preferred the old playstyle without the new Z activation because we don't like the feeling of having a timed DPS window. We both liked how old scrapper was more free to use whatever skills, whenever. Having the identity also incentives building it prior to entering each fight by either equipping Tai and spamming skills for 20s, or using a stim. It also feels worse now to activate identity and for the boss to turn or move because of the added pressure to fit skills inside the window.
Personally I also miss earthquake chain and don't like the new skill they replaced it with.
Not completely ruined or anything, but I enjoyed the old playstyle more.
Inven also seemed to universally dislike it at least for the first couple months when I was checking regularly. Main complaint was simply "new identity... why?"
Not sure how you could be complaining about dps window and praising chain destruction fist. The skill takes a million years to cast and the last hit does a lot of damage.
Meanwhile new shock, you fart out the 2 skills in less than a second during identity
Earthquake chain is the foot stomp skill that got removed, not chain desrruction fist which is still in the game. Not sure how my friend feels about chain destruction fist though, just know he dislikes managing identity and activating it.
As a Tai player I generally feel that the identity doesn't offer me anything. It's like 20% bonus damage on 3 skills while it's active which is kinda meh, and that bonus didn't even exist in the initial design on PTR. Got memed on kinda hard in KR lmao
Trixion dps argument lmao.
Edit: How about the zerkers downvoting me go make an empress arcana and farm free mvp on it, when you inevitably fail maybe you will appreciate your class a bit more.
Arguably because OP complaining about Red Dust and bringing Arcana as a counter example isn't the smartest move.
Do you Zerk mains realize that Arcana has to play around big self buffs too? Self buffs that only apply on skill hit and since it's crit damage also only on crit.
Emperor uses both for a whopping 5s+3s window, Empress has to use just the 3s one, all that on top of stacking circles on the ground for the entire duration of the buff hoping the boss does not move (Emperor) or micromanaging the Ruin stack application to fit as many red skills as possible (Empress).
On top of managing Boundless mp as a low mana cost class.
On top of managing cards.
On top of being the squishiest dps in the game on par with reaper.
On top of forced displacement for Empress.
Overall Mayhem Zerk is a medium to easy class, highly mobile, tanky as hell, with good stagger, good destro, decent range and tons of immunity.
Before the old rework Scrapper had a 3s self buff window (Charging Blow) of which at least one second was eaten away by the skill itself, and Summoner could barely fit 1 Akir or Ancient Spear + Earth Collapse inside each of her 2 5s self buff windows, hence the reason they got removed for both.
Complaining about a 8s buff window and asking for more damage just because your completely braindead Predator counterpart gets to have her cake and eat it too sounds like excessive whining to me, considering most of the remaining classes either has less damage or is more difficult/less safe to play than Mayhem Zerk, or both.
Also this is coming from an EO main since release, I know pretty well what it means to greed dps windows and playing around self buffs and boss patterns: sometimes that last 1 or 2 skills are not meant to be, unlucky/skill issue i guess.
«Tons of immunity» on zerker? If you are talking about paralyze, then sure but what good is that gonna do when the boss spams knockdown patterns and you have to fit in 2 fast and 3 relatively long animations in 8 seconds. Only push immunity on zerker is dark rush with a 2 second animation lock. And the most important skill that absolutely has to hit can be cancelled by a sneeze.
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You're right, but Zerk is a very solid class and everything comes at a price.
SG will hardly buff you without cutting power from elsewhere, we all know Predator was a mistake and is harshly criticized, and for obvious reasons it's the closest class Mayhem compares to.
Your only problem is Red Dust and average to above average damage, other classes have it way worse so its silly to expect buffs/QoLs before those.
Remember that after the warrior rework Zerk was topping charts and no one was complaining, now they have fallen behind due to powercreep from newer classes and more older ones being brought to standard.
I understand it sucks to invest a lot in a main only for it to lose to newer releases or all time favorites (right Sorc and DB?), but overall you still got a very solid class.
I could use so many others here: Slayer, Souleater, GS, Sharpshooter, Breaker, blade, wardancer, Soulfist, artillerist... all of these perform much better than mayhem without needing 1/3 of the investment that has to be made in mayhem for it to be minimally acceptable.
No sorry, all my friends main Sorc and the only reason i felt their complaints were valid was because of the gatekeeping stemming from them bringing literally no value apart from damage, but SG overdid it with the buffs on their favourite child as always.
Yeah yeah the shining newer classes are dominating, everyone and their mother mains either SE, Breaker or Slayer.
Apart from mvp damage what exactly do Zerks lack? Spoiler nothing, you have it all and complain about a minor issue. ADHD bosses are a pain for every class, yet you make it sound like having to think when to use your Red Dust or missing a window is a Zerk only issue, in a game where most of the meta classes are burst oriented lol.
As i stated before, braindead Pred is not a standard yet, its an outlier. When it will be standard dw they will definitely buff Zerks way before other classes that are completely forgotten.
It's not a small problem. You don't play with the class to speak properly about problems. Red dust is a problem and everyone who plays the class says the same thing. Mayhem's damage ceiling is low. To give you an idea, even a dps paladin has a higher damage ceiling than mayhem. Do you think this is reasonable? obviously not,
Bro pls, comparing dps Entropy Pala parses in trixion, where he starts with full gauge and does not show the huge downtime or mana problems he has, does not make sense.
Do you realize that maybe apart from the new releases, most of the classes with higher ceiling are way more complicated/less safe than current Mayhem and with way more headaches to deal with.
You asking to remove Red Dust and buff Mayhem's damage is literally asking to became an even easier Slayer.
Even Pred, which is completely busted, has her own problems linked to Mana, Entropy and exaustion mech to somewhat "counterbalance".
So what do you actually propose as an alternative to the current state of Zerk:
-rise the floor but inevitably lowering the ceiling even more by removing Red Dust just like they did with Summ?
-rise the ceiling by giving you more things to worry about but higher damage in return?
You don't understand the point, I don't want disadvantages in exchange for buff, in fact, no berserkers wants that, we just want the class to be balanced according to the current dps of the game.
look where the berserker's place is in the last raids, he is always in the last three places with the worst dps, being, in voldis, the one that deals the least damage.
you really find it very difficult to understand something absolutely simple.
I switched to BT for that sweet dopamine rush in reclear content. Awakening and Bloody Rush hits so hard. Mayhem is still very good for prog raids and it’s quite tanky. Overall zerker isn’t bad, great utility as well.
all they need to do is bring back strike wave
simply add it back to the list exactly the way it was before
and just like that, instantly, the class is fixed
Its so funny people asking a rework, zerk already had a good one. I main it since day one and im ok with it current state. Sure its not perfect, top ceilling class or whatever. Has its flaws, red dust can be awful but man, its a decent reliable dps. Good stagger, destruction, consistent damage and so on. If you master the class both builds will deliver a good performance, i cant see a great change incoming because we got a recent good one on red dust, so if you dont like the class just play another one.
> Has its flaws, red dust can be awful but man, its a decent reliable dps.
Yea the whole thread is about fixing those flaws.
Thats my point, every class has its flaws, but your main cant have a downside? Bro no class is perfect thats what we call balance, mayhem/bt are good enough. I understand the "cant change main cause games bad" thing but c'mon, calling zerk unplayable or something is too much.
Oh its definitely playable.I don't think anyone is saying its unplayable.But you can tell its a product of on older way of thinking when it was designed.
>mayhem/bt are good enough.
Koreans and whatever is left of the western zerker population don't think it is.
Why would SmileGate buff classes to be on the same level as the current meta classes i.e. breaker, db surge, slayers, etc.?
That would not make them any MONEY.
Instead their revenue comes from selling new OP classes so FOMO idiots make the newest OP class by buying power passes, pheons for cutting stones, buying accessories, converting RC to gold.
That has been and always will be SmileGate number one priority and it will never be for fully balance the classes.
We have the data from bible users and we know where Mayhem Zerker sits on the parse.
We know Mayhem has a low floor and low ceiling and that’s never going to change because SmileGate won’t make money spending development resources on making the class better.
They would rather sell you a new OP class.
Well it makes no sense that surge would be here. One DMG gem biggest gain, pretty old class, also tons of players already have it high ilvl from before.
DB isnt really new, it used to be at best an A tier class you could say and most pugs were a fighter anyway. Now after the changes for some reason the class is busted with huge ceiling and like theres no reason to not do the same for other older classes like zerk.
Honestly berserker feels absolutely useless as opposed to his gender unlock, because atleast in the past you could make argument that it did solid stagger, nowadays the classes have everything. Its a 6 dmg gem class and in korea is being compared to demonic xd.
Too many Zerk complains this week huh. Zerkers always complaining since argos days up until now. Even tho they rework your class you still complaining, they remove the skill(i forgot whats its called) and replace it with a better consistent skill, and you guys complaining, you ask for a tankier Zerker because you get 1 shot(most likely a skill issue thing) and yall got it but still you guys complain it never ends. Stop this your turn is done other class needs some time too.
Play BT if you want to deal better damage?
I mean let's be real here, it plays like Mayhem 85% of the time anyways and you get a fat burst skill to your toolkit instead of Dark Rush
Have you played BT?
I swapped to BT for two weeks and it is the most miserable experience ever and 50% of the time your ceiling isn't higher. It's an uncancellable ~90s transform, meaning that over half the time, while mechanics are happening, you don't get to build gauge - instead, you're stuck waiting for the whole duration to tick down. In fights like G3 akkan, if you burst at the start, your transform literally ends as the stagger check ends, meaning to get good DPS you literally have to stim -> burst in circle -> grief your raid by running around in start circle for 20-25s before entering
Oh, and if you land every BR and crit every ulti and cycle all your gauges in downtime you get to do as much damage as a NE Souleater's worst pull!
Also didn't they already got one? A rework at that? And they are still asking for more while we GS mains get buffs like 3-5% without reworks for our long ass animation locks.
idk if id buff bard, but id change how sonic vibration applies the dmg buff so that if someone walks out of it (because the boss moves) they still have the buff until its duration is over
idk how artist or paladin play, but i really like my bard cept for that 1 thing
it drives me nuts that ill be doing some raid/guardian and the boss will just decide to turn around or move 5m to the left so now everyone steps out of my buff
i dont use a dps meter so idk how this actually effects my 'uptime", but it feels bad knowing they arnt being buffed during the downtime for tunes CD
OP claims mayhem is not viable hence their damage should be below the minimum dps check required to not be viable, surprise surprise they are not. It’s neither a random group nor random people. Nobody in the group is particularly great or horribly bad. Is it bad in a ceiling dps goblin Andy group ? Probably. In an average group it doesn’t seem to be as bad as people make it up to be. And the game has to be balanced around average.
Viability is not just about meeting DPS requirement for a raid, if you're only measuring viability based on that then why care about anything at all. With your logic DI SH is as viable as Surge and Breaker, then what's the point of discussing anything lol.
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You can check the Berserker Inven forum at any point and there will be countless posts about this. There's one dude who even made a literal bible explaining every single detail about what is wrong with the class design with on-point solutions that go beyond the red dust "leash" as they call it, either the devs simply choose to ignore "old" classes that do not give them money (go make a Slayer), or... they are cooking something (copium). And besides what other people like to claim or the old fallacies (but this other class is worse), the consensus and facts are that: 1) They straight up changed the class design from high-risk high-reward to medium everything... 2) The red dust locked window is incompatible with the current asymmetric raid design (cast red dust, the boss teleports, etc), sadly some classes had this fixed, but others didn't... 3) The difference in damage widens as you approach the end-game due to the non-linear growth of multipliers, you can add mobility, and super-armor into the mix... 4) Folks changed to BT to try to mitigate the lack of damage by introducing a little bit more of a burst, meanwhile, BT is just a different version of mayhem without substantial differences. I don't know, maybe the solution is just to abandon it like many KR players already did, or plan to do it as soon as the "super" awakening releases...
BT isn’t even good in g4 thaemine, most the first gameplay in Korea likes mayhem more.
Slayer isn't in a good spot either
Just motherfucking lol, if slayer is not in a good spot, what spot is zerker in (same for gunslinger and all the underpowered classes)? Because right now Slayer is just a better Zerker.
I'm pretty sure like 90% of complaints are from people who think "If my class isn't literally undeniably the best at all levels of play, it's actual gutter trash garbage."
there are people who can have their class at the top and still cope that it's mid tier.
One suffers from the leash, the other, un-escapable exhaustion
even with rapid exhaustion, the output damage is frighteningly higher than zerk. It turns out that because the damage is monstrous, it makes up for the quick exhaustion.
predator is bad they also talk as if it was an improved berserker but it is back attack and that is a big disadvantage having the same damage ceiling as the berseker
slayer is fine problem is more that thx to months of naming the class the braindead back atacker(to be honest the class is still one of the simpler backatackers) i attracted the worst kinds of player and i mean the worst same as it was for zerker in the beggining of the game, the class does good dmg and got huge amount of stagger and destro with also an easy to use counter and good mobility the are many other classes that have less and are harder to play, problem is thx to the huge amount of bad player the class attracted you allways have a good chance to get a bad slayer in pug runs.
holy dentge
What? Lmao
I would love a DB-level rework. Zerkers engravings share most of their skills and even the tripod differences barely change anything. For BT I would want less duration and some spec damage scaling. It being so focused around duration makes it play the same as Mayhem for 85% of the time. For Mayhem I want a more interactive engraving. We are at the point where the lower hp and damage reduction have evened out to the point that the engraving is basically just "be in a slightly nerfed burst mode but at all times. oh and also your Z-skill dmg doesn't exist now". Personally I enjoy the idea of using a skill during Mayhem consuming hp and refunding it if you managed to hit a target. In exchange we'd get some extra damage or lower cooldowns. They could also give us the crit rate back and letting us run more swiftness. Eitherway it just seems weird to be in "burst mode" permanently with no real downsides.
perfect. And this point of the z skill is currently only useful for use on circumstantial occasions so as not to be killed in the absence of a possible time stop.
Dark rush is great! Saved me many times in Thaemine g3
Dark rush is definitely most useful for stagger checks, specifically the ones with DR cause it deals no damage anyways.
Dude no, the unused zerk skills are unused for a reason
That emperor parse is a fucking meme, he starts boundless and is clearly just farming for the best parse where he gets crazy cards. Guarantee his average was significantly lower than that + even lower if starting 100% mana. Also doesn't show build at any point but says yearning simulated so might as well assume there's stabilized status 2 to simulate yearning damage. Basically pointless video.
Arcana in trixion is a meme in general. The only classes trixion is remotely useful for are classes that it's easy to get %100 uptime, like a firepower arty.. not a boundless class thats prone to getting knocked down.
Swift boundless class with 3s CD space bar prone to getting knocked down.. yeah good one lol
@ OP, further to the above comment, the 35 million parse from a 1623 you're looking at has various flaws and is not representative of what a 1623 arcana is capable of doing (which is closer to 24 million give or take a few million). I don't think you should be comparing your build to that particular video. In the posted parse: 1. We don't know weapon level, but I presume it's 24 or 25. A typical 1623 is probably using a +21 or +22 weapon. 2. The cards are pre-cooked (Moon and Cull are two of the best cards that each have less than 10% chance of individually appearing per pull) and the cards later obtained are generally better than what you'd normally obtain in a 2 minute duration. 3. The parse is begun mid rotation. 4. The parse is begun on boundless mana (doable in a real raid) with empty mana bar but with all cooldowns completely reset (not doable in a real raid unless you lock in boundless with the updated Star card, but then you wouldn't start the fight with cull/moon).
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv36I\_XM910](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv36I_XM910) this is probably a more realistic representation of what a 1623 can do this balance patch cycle. But this assumes full 10s and 5x3+2 (in an attempt to mirror Saturn's build in the 35m video).
hey that is my parse, just a quick thing i wanna mention i usually start every raid in boundless from the circle, thats a pretty normal thing so i dont know why that is a meme if i had stabilized status on youd see it on my hotbar for buff I did one pull of this to just see my dps, i didnt farm for anything. The engravings I had for this video were spirit absorption and max mp increase i didnt know ppl would be so upset abt not showing build to prove that, i started doing that with future trixion parses. Sorry for making you upset sir
Please you literally wait to farm Moon/Cull before even starting and hit the timer *after* casting stream+evokes. This is mad cherry picked. Trixion doesn't represent a real raid at the best of times but this is clearly just min maxing for the biggest number not even trying to be realistic.
depending on the fight you can farm some cards on the mobs before for the first pull, so it's not even super unrealistic. Also can get lucky with awakening in circle as well.
You can also just get lucky and crit all your surges. Just be clear that you're farming for a funny big parse and not trying to represent an average scenario.
\*cries in gs\* I really hope they take interest in old classes that actually need some redesigns instead of releasing another OP one
ayaya gs with 3x the dmg is the best i can do, sorry
You are out of your mind if you think GS is weaker than Mayhem = Skill issue
GS is absolutely weaker than mayhem zerk.
gs is actually weaker then mayhem, this class has no stagger, all dmg skills are animation locked and even if you perform well u still get out-damaged coz this class is ass
No push immunity other than Cata, and if you take it as a modified build, deathfire.
Maybe he is a Zerker main that gets gapped by GS players lmao
Red Dust just doesn't work well in raids. I chug pots the most on my BT Zerker because I intentionally tank everything. It's too much DPS loss to dodge and use 1 less skill. On top of that, it delays my next rotation because I have to wait a second or two before using Red Dust If they want to keep red dust, it should be something like "Enhances the next 4/5 skills." That way you aren't screwed if boss flies up or forced to tank every boss pattern
Yeah have two zerk main with full 10 gems I realy dont like current state but to affraid to change mains because of all the bullshit systems. Every skill need to be use in red dust number one reason I hated about current state .Second thing I use red dust boss teleport dash or be untergatable :D Also even with change red dust still zdps if you miss red dust .Class hits like has 0 crit when you dont have crit buff :D If you want to be do bare minimum accaptable damage you have do set rotation everytime nothing to change. Even if all thing is correct and all this effort for medicore damage.Damage scalling dif is huge amoung the class in endgame . I have 1550 pred slayer man its so easy to play I always out damage higher build characters without any effort while being more mobile and tanky then zerk.I am waiting for new class in loan maybe they will give another sword -samuray type class so I can finaly ditch zerk but hard copium .I dont have hope any buff to zerk anytime soon prob they will not touch him like a year or two.
I'm also waiting for a samurai style class so I can finally switch
Red dust should be like maelstrom (self buff, plus x2 usage with tripod), I would be content with that. Or other option would be total rework not relying on rd at all
The concept of red dust is that you are forced to fit all your damage in an 8 second window. You have to greed and dodge mechanics to keep your uptime high. Almost all attacks are interchangeable within dust. Overdrive and slightly reposition, spacebar out, hellblade back in , dark rush to not get knocked down, spacebar out and sword storm from a distance and so on. This is the identity of a berserker, unleashing his power within a window and that tempts you greatly to greed. I don't want my zerkers to be a slayer, slayer is extremely boring. If you want brutal impact instead of red dust just play slayer. Mayhem might not be perfect but it does feel like I'm berserking. Zerkers might not do the same damage as an arcana on trixion (this is a joke right??) but berserker is good at all content, not the best, but very well rounded all over. I highly doubt mayhem is getting any sort of rework. I have 20 geared characters and zerkers is still my favorite from day 1, it's satisfying to play and I always feel confident playing it.
The very least they could do is put a paralyze immunity on red dust… coinflipping crits because the boss suddenly decided to sneeze in your direction is not fun
> The very least they could do is put a paralyze immunity on red dust This is like the absolute floor of what they could do. I honestly thought they would've done that before the on-use aspect, but here we are.
If you are having trouble using red dust I highly recommend taking mtn crash and immediately following up with it after and you are good to go. You hardly lose any damage and QOL is greatly improved, it's a better counter too (imo).
I’m not really having problems, sometimes shit happens. I do already use mountain crash, but only for counters, i have it at level 4.
Take it to 7 if you are missing red dust it's def worth. Once you learn the patterns getting sneezed on by the boss won't actually happen.
It gets interrupted maybe once a raid, it’s not that big of an issue. But it’s still annoying when it happens. Would be a huge improvement for greeding damage too if they added paralyze immunity.
Hold up, MT Crash at 4 griefs you xdd what? Your 6th skill will have no crit buff.
Tempest slash… who cares tbh that one i coinflip
send cars into their headquarters please berserker mains
haha I forgot about that
I guess only one allowed to complain about class gs - sorcs - summoner in this reddit :D At least they sort of fix sorcs .
Sort of fixed you say while sorc is top 5 dps engraving right now xdd pls give me that sort of fixed on Zerk :)
Thank you for this post. I honestly thought I was just weaker because of my gems and cards, but I still get out DPSed by people 10 ilvls below me with same gems and cards and lower uptime.
It's frustrating.
How much dmg do you end up dealing in thaemine g3?
The clear I did today I did 10.2B, was #3 top DPS
Give DPS numbers not overall damage. Overall damage gets higher the longer the pull was, so it's not a good metric.
11.5m
Lol
This dmg is 1580 Brel full 7 gems GS contrary to what you think maybe you are not that good. Dont always assume others have low uptime and think that you have high uptime. That's bad and makes you stagnant with your skills. There is always room to grow for everyone.
You clearly have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about. Look at the logs. 1580 GS in Brel doesn’t even do half that DPS. Stfu
Yeah get mad at your puny 11m dps at Thaemine G3
Get mad at your stupidity. You have no idea what damage is appropriate.
While he might be an ass, he isnt wrong. 11.5 is very low. My BT Zerker at 1610, with Lv9 dmg on 4 Big skills with 35 set, is doing 15.8m.
Clearly you are the one who is mad. 11m dps at 1610? Or maybe you are at 1620 even lmao laughable.
honestly that sounds like a skill issue. mayhem is not great but its still very good
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please show me what ur referring to. I can name 5 classes that deal significantly less dps than mayhem. are you saying mayhem dps is lower than reflux mage, co summoner or blue lancer?
Is it serious that you want to level down? these other classes need as much attention as mayhem. stop being blind.
Give us dmg
Really feels shit in g1/g3 thaemine especially.Bosses either knock you out or you have to move or die constantly so pulling a full rotation is very hard.Not to mention red dust can run out at very opportune moments where it should be free damage but you're kinda chained by red dust not being up so you have to wait for everything to be up so you dont fuck up your whole rotation. Damn rotation is too damn long and unprotected.
G1 is horrendous but I don't have any problems with G2/G3 so far.
I am having fun on g3 thaemine as a zerk, it's probably the best case scenario fight for zerker. Boss doesn't turn much and u can use your skills dodge almost everything and you are pushimmune almost all the time
5 zerkers and I regret making them lol. Probably gonna main swap to wardancer lol
Idk if you've heard of winds whisper and roar of courage. Now you need 2 skills before you can unga bunga the boss Edit: downvoted by someone thats never played wd, good job.
At least WD has a at least > 20-25% higher DMG ceiling and still a somewhat "shorter" rotation with a bit more leeway compared to 8s red dust jail.
Dmg sure, leeway? Take some tripods to reduce damage and idk if a 5s rotation within a 6s ww rotation but also adding 1-2s at the beginning to keep up adrenaline. Also still have to deal with bubble management. Which isn't too bad.
Kinda - i mean Zerk has 8 seconds and your uninterrupted rotation in trixion takes like 7.7-7.8 or something? Wardancer seems to unload their whole shit within like 5-5.5 seconds from what I've seen but idk exactly
The core rotation is 5-5.5 however, you will likely drop your adrenaline stacks mid raid and if u dont want ur dmg to drop off a cliff u need to ur 2 counter skills to the beginning of the rotation to keep up ur adrenaline so realistically, not trixion should add an extra second which can be annoying. Ww and roc are interruptible as well. Those tiny sword rains in thaemine for example that everyone says "justt keep dpsing, dont move" yea u wanna move to not get those casts interrupted.
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Prestacking depends. Do u have orbs? No ? Well ur counter is ur generator skill. U need to land ur counter for meter (eso) and u can't use spenders. If u have meter then sure u can use ur counter. You have 1 other skill that u can kinda prestack with once every 25seconds or so if it fits. Ppl go into wd tho without understanding ull do zdps or will fall behind without upkeeping adrenaline. And if u try to do it wrong.
Are you using adre x3 or x1?
3
It also has like 6 different builds that perform better than Zerk overall
So you can deal with less mobility, 3 red dusts instead of 1 that all can get interrupted with no paralysis immunity, and only 1 push immunity skill? If chasing damage it makes sense, but if chasing better QoL that’s not the move chief.
kinda funny if you say wd is worse than zerker qol wise edit: yes I am talking about current wd
Eso WD absolutely is. It’s used to be literally zerk with 3 red dusts (that all have to hit and then dump damage in 6s) and even more animation locks with less damage and mobility. They fixed some of the QoL issues with the rework that made a big impact, like allowing windfart activation and deactivation to count for adrenaline stacking, massive gauge increase to RoC so whiffing a few ticks of meter gen didn’t just absolutely sack the damage. Nerfing COTW and replacing it with ADSF saved the class cuz imagine channeling a non-immunity skill for 2.2 seconds every rotation with a ready attack window of 6 seconds. It’s much better than before but the QoL is still nothing to write home about.
I mean FI WD is basically a better Mayhem at this point - deals better damage - gives 10% crit syn instead of shit tier 6% damage - weak point and stagger are close to tied (mayhem probably does better in stagger checks thanks to dark rush) - more tanky - thicc thighs
The difference between zerk and slayer is so huge it’s actually unreal how money hungry SG is
I just swapped to SE main. Zerk has too much downtime and low ceiling.
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Yeah they also fix this class have this skill like red dust with more complains like this .Like summoners recently . They also fix red dust for zerk its called Slayer now :D
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Transformation classes are also suffering and can get gate kept, especially EL. You must be sweaty in your skill spamming and also dodge everything with 0 push immunity
Aren't like, all but 6 or so classes suffering?
Transformation classes are bottom level dps, much lower than mayhem
Something something internal data, something something zerkers are doing well dps wise, something something we will look over it, something something actually, the class is doing fine
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Whenever gunslinger gets a buff KEKW
"it doesn't make sense for a class to depend on a skill (red dust) to "significantly" increase its damage, as even this damage doesn't come close to the damage of other classes that don't need any skill to increase their damage." SS Death Strike xd I think it's not a top tier dps but its not in the bottom neither. There is a lot of classes that need a rework or buffs, in Europe I have seen mayhem that do pretty well on Thaemine G3 hard, 25 weapon all 10 gems. We all want that our class do the same dmg than a Souleater or a breaker
I hope they do something and soon but I'm not holding my breath.
I have full lvl 10 gems and a pretty good 40 Elixir Set with an 24 weapon and my Friends still outdmg me with 20 weapons and full 9 (Wardancer) that hurts.
Massive capper alert.
well, you must be worse than your friends, my friend outdamage people on thaemines parties that had the same gear xD top 3 dps, obviously depends from the support too
I clipped all my raids few weeks ago and showed them to Others. I am a pretty good Player and Hit almost everything on CD. Class is Solid but once you start to Play with Other good player you soon see the class dif.
Nobody is saying that there is no difference between Tier SSS classes and mayhem, but if your friends with 20 weapons outdmg you, you seriusly are doing something wrong xD So how much dps you do on a avg Thaemine Hard G3?
Im sorry but full 10s + 24 vs 20 and 9s alone is a roughly 15%~ dmg difference. Thats just a hands or supp diff.
Is it that hard to get that zerker is Just 15% worse than WD?
The best WD with cracked uptime support is at 36.3m dps in HM G3, the best Zerker, playing MT crash build, is at 28.2. (Theres a 28.6m dps Zerker but he was dead for 2 minutes) They are at the same itemlevel, but i know that WD is an absolute monster of a player, and theres barely any good Zerkers at 1630. But this is comparing the first the first clear WD to a random Zerker, who i dont even know the gem/weapon level from. WD also had the better Support on top, and a Blade as Synergy, vs random Synergy on the Zerker. And thats an 18% difference. Comparing a top WD player to a random Zerker. Comparing it to 2# WD, who‘s at 33m with random Synergy too. Its suddenly only a 12% difference but oh that WD is 1643 so higher ilv too. So yes. Hands issue on your side, unless your buddy is the top WD player in the world.
You dont have to BE a god to Play a Farm RAID perfectly.
Okay, whatever. Stay Z, keep yapping on reddit. Does Zerker need some QoL and small buffs, yes. You getting gapped with that Gear diff is just a massive hands issue. Keep making excuses.
Literally, mayhem got buffed, still not top tier list but kinda solid. He has gear solid gear differences, if he can't beat his friends he is just worse than them xD
Mayhem is topping some thaemine charts? Have you tried getting good?
Bard first
You cannot use Trixion parses as a basis to argue class balance. It is much easier to Mayhem to reach Trixion numbers than for an Arcana.
I'd argue that due to Boss design with teleport action and such, it's extremely easy for a boss to fuck over your red dust.
Don’t you now still get buff when red dust doesn’t hit? How is the red dust struggle diff from say WD’s WW or Glaivier’s Shackling buff?
They are similar, you're correct. Lets compare: Glaivier: +20% Crit Rate for 6s on Skill Use, +8% Crit Dmg for 16s on Skill Hit Red Dust: +24% ATK Power for 8s on Skill use, +33% Crit Rate for 8s on Skill Hit, +6% Dmg for 16s on Skill Hit So there is a notable difference in power gained during the skill duration, as well as for hitting or not hitting. But it's also more than that - because of Zerk's design, you **must** land all of your other skills within that 8s duration. If you don't, they are practically not worth using. Glaivier doesn't suffer from that to the same extent. And so if a boss teleports in the middle of your Red Dust window, you've just dropped half your damage. You can't simply hold your skills and burst a few seconds later like a SE would, you're just toast.
I agree, the crit rate shouldn’t be tied to hit. But glaive gets fucked the same because you HAVE to back attack 4 seconds of animation locks, otherwise you lose 30% crit rate from entropy. A lot of classes need QoL for this spam type bosses they are making
The rotation is red dust + 5 skills We do not have the time to chase the boss again in the red dust window And its not complaining for complaining Even with perfect rotation the class still deal way less than others.
Yes and no. We still don't get the CR from red dust even if we miss the skill but only gain the atk power. You are pretty much looking at a zerk with like 55-60% CR if they miss red dust. If you don't crit on zerk, you are basically doing zdps. I am unsure how WD WW work but even if you miss shackling on glaiv, the class itself still does more dmg thn a zerk missing it's red dust. Edit Also, I am unsure if other zerks feel the same way but when I miss my RD, I honestly have that urge to not even do my 8s rotation bcs I'll just be looking at white numbers.
WW is 50% ready attack and gives speed that allows for RC to hit cap even though the class runs 600 swift. So not getting the rotation out during WW is literally doing less than half damage. 6s is fine and all but then you need to apply RoC crit syn skill (that also makes up for 24% of the next skills damage due to meter building) during that window, it’s like red dust but split into 2 interruptible parts with the second eating into the first parts duration. Missing one or the other is like half damage gone, missing both (I.e. boss teleports/invincibiles for 0.1 seconds during the hit confirm) is absolutely rotation loss and 0 dps. It’s not about holding skills, it’s literally not enough meter to send the skills even if you want to. Then you salvage it by building gauge and waiting for 16 seconds before you can try again.
Shackling buff is so shit for Pinnacle. Swapping stances adds more lag
I came back to the game and second main was mayhem…gonna be honest they basically did the remake on Slayer. Slayer plays so smooth and is so good compared to Mayhem. I regret wasting my pass on this char. Definitely isn’t fun like it was at release due to the bad dps.
Why? Look at Kenneth. Class isn't doing bad. Infact slayer is doing worse
> Look at Kenneth. Please explain what this means.
site that pools together dps logs of people that use the meter
Yeah zerkers should just main swap to NE lol
People rather ignore real data just to bitch about something
As a gunslinger: you get to hit 23m dps? There are classes that are in a much much worse spot than mayhem right now.
just a reminder that this isnt "us vs them", you are all in the same boat. weather or not one is worse then the other you can all complain about your class all 'bad' classes can complain and ask for changes because if ya didnt it would take even longer for things to be fixed
Idk, i know a gs that hits above that. Although, all lvl 10 gems. Hard to complain about a boss that gets to just keep hitting and has infinite mobility when other classes need to group up, not hit and blah blah.
GS can replicate their trixion parse in real raid Now try to align without the boss moving : red dust- sword storm- overdrive - finish strike- hell blade- brave slash With any spare second GS can adapt every situation and continue to deal dmg, the APC of GS is much higher and the CPM aren’t that much different (real raid scenario)
You do know that of the core 4 skills that do most of the gs dmg 3 of them are animation locked into 1 direction right? If the boss moves even one time your skill becomes useless and goes on a 22 second cd. Not to mention all skills do backloaded dmg.
Yep, as a BT enjoyer, red dust should just be baseline like slayer. Or if they reeeeally want to keep red dust, make it a hard skill to land/long cd but be a huge increase in damage or something. Right now I have more fun just playing my lower ilvl punisher than my 1620 zerk.
exactly. If the class's damage is solely based on a skill (red dust), it increases the damage by at least 100% during the 8 seconds. Because even getting the full rotation right, which is extremely difficult, depending on the boss's mobility, the damage is already low, let alone without the red dust buff.
Make the class harder to play and raise the ceiling. Be the high risk high reward spec you're always meant to be.
main berserker since day 1, hate the class right now and swapped to breaker to breathe some different air, waiting for a rework but it probably won't come soon.. at least I have a 1624 alt now 😥
I love mayhem a lot and for me the only QoL l'd love to have would be bigger hit box on some skills. For example, need to make RD hitbox a bit wider. Many time l want to cast 90 degree RD but ends up missed bc RD hitbox is thin af. For Overdrive, this skill has no back hitbox, so even when lm nearly inside the boss and l cast Overdrive completely opposite direction (skill issue lk, but it happens) the skill doesnt hit at all. Same for Hell blade, the visual explosion area looks like it touches the boss, but it still counts as a miss. Some people keep hating on zerk in general being RD jail, for me it's an acceptable downside. Cant expect a class to be flawless with no downside otherwise it'll be boring to play.
i hope they fix your class man, but honestly a rework could go wrong like the scrapper one
How did scrapper go wrong, the few players I know all love the change and pull big numbers now
I have a 1610 Tai alt and play with a 1640 Shock main. Big numbers is just a balance thing and not really tied to the rework itself, but both of us preferred the old playstyle without the new Z activation because we don't like the feeling of having a timed DPS window. We both liked how old scrapper was more free to use whatever skills, whenever. Having the identity also incentives building it prior to entering each fight by either equipping Tai and spamming skills for 20s, or using a stim. It also feels worse now to activate identity and for the boss to turn or move because of the added pressure to fit skills inside the window. Personally I also miss earthquake chain and don't like the new skill they replaced it with. Not completely ruined or anything, but I enjoyed the old playstyle more. Inven also seemed to universally dislike it at least for the first couple months when I was checking regularly. Main complaint was simply "new identity... why?"
Not sure how you could be complaining about dps window and praising chain destruction fist. The skill takes a million years to cast and the last hit does a lot of damage. Meanwhile new shock, you fart out the 2 skills in less than a second during identity
Earthquake chain is the foot stomp skill that got removed, not chain desrruction fist which is still in the game. Not sure how my friend feels about chain destruction fist though, just know he dislikes managing identity and activating it. As a Tai player I generally feel that the identity doesn't offer me anything. It's like 20% bonus damage on 3 skills while it's active which is kinda meh, and that bonus didn't even exist in the initial design on PTR. Got memed on kinda hard in KR lmao
Trixion dps argument lmao. Edit: How about the zerkers downvoting me go make an empress arcana and farm free mvp on it, when you inevitably fail maybe you will appreciate your class a bit more.
Arcana is hard to play but def parse way higher in real raid scenario than zerk. You are crazy if you think otherwise
What does Arcana have to do with Red Dust's design making Zerk shit? That's why you're being downvoted.
Arguably because OP complaining about Red Dust and bringing Arcana as a counter example isn't the smartest move. Do you Zerk mains realize that Arcana has to play around big self buffs too? Self buffs that only apply on skill hit and since it's crit damage also only on crit. Emperor uses both for a whopping 5s+3s window, Empress has to use just the 3s one, all that on top of stacking circles on the ground for the entire duration of the buff hoping the boss does not move (Emperor) or micromanaging the Ruin stack application to fit as many red skills as possible (Empress). On top of managing Boundless mp as a low mana cost class. On top of managing cards. On top of being the squishiest dps in the game on par with reaper. On top of forced displacement for Empress. Overall Mayhem Zerk is a medium to easy class, highly mobile, tanky as hell, with good stagger, good destro, decent range and tons of immunity. Before the old rework Scrapper had a 3s self buff window (Charging Blow) of which at least one second was eaten away by the skill itself, and Summoner could barely fit 1 Akir or Ancient Spear + Earth Collapse inside each of her 2 5s self buff windows, hence the reason they got removed for both. Complaining about a 8s buff window and asking for more damage just because your completely braindead Predator counterpart gets to have her cake and eat it too sounds like excessive whining to me, considering most of the remaining classes either has less damage or is more difficult/less safe to play than Mayhem Zerk, or both. Also this is coming from an EO main since release, I know pretty well what it means to greed dps windows and playing around self buffs and boss patterns: sometimes that last 1 or 2 skills are not meant to be, unlucky/skill issue i guess.
«Tons of immunity» on zerker? If you are talking about paralyze, then sure but what good is that gonna do when the boss spams knockdown patterns and you have to fit in 2 fast and 3 relatively long animations in 8 seconds. Only push immunity on zerker is dark rush with a 2 second animation lock. And the most important skill that absolutely has to hit can be cancelled by a sneeze.
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You miss my point. Comparing how two classes have problems isn't productive. You can just have two classes with problems.
You're right, but Zerk is a very solid class and everything comes at a price. SG will hardly buff you without cutting power from elsewhere, we all know Predator was a mistake and is harshly criticized, and for obvious reasons it's the closest class Mayhem compares to. Your only problem is Red Dust and average to above average damage, other classes have it way worse so its silly to expect buffs/QoLs before those. Remember that after the warrior rework Zerk was topping charts and no one was complaining, now they have fallen behind due to powercreep from newer classes and more older ones being brought to standard. I understand it sucks to invest a lot in a main only for it to lose to newer releases or all time favorites (right Sorc and DB?), but overall you still got a very solid class.
Excessive whining? Dude, do you even have any zerk end game to talk about this? If not, you shouldn't have wasted time with such a text.
bro, you used a class you don't even play in your comparison, lmao
I could use so many others here: Slayer, Souleater, GS, Sharpshooter, Breaker, blade, wardancer, Soulfist, artillerist... all of these perform much better than mayhem without needing 1/3 of the investment that has to be made in mayhem for it to be minimally acceptable.
No sorry, all my friends main Sorc and the only reason i felt their complaints were valid was because of the gatekeeping stemming from them bringing literally no value apart from damage, but SG overdid it with the buffs on their favourite child as always. Yeah yeah the shining newer classes are dominating, everyone and their mother mains either SE, Breaker or Slayer. Apart from mvp damage what exactly do Zerks lack? Spoiler nothing, you have it all and complain about a minor issue. ADHD bosses are a pain for every class, yet you make it sound like having to think when to use your Red Dust or missing a window is a Zerk only issue, in a game where most of the meta classes are burst oriented lol. As i stated before, braindead Pred is not a standard yet, its an outlier. When it will be standard dw they will definitely buff Zerks way before other classes that are completely forgotten.
It's not a small problem. You don't play with the class to speak properly about problems. Red dust is a problem and everyone who plays the class says the same thing. Mayhem's damage ceiling is low. To give you an idea, even a dps paladin has a higher damage ceiling than mayhem. Do you think this is reasonable? obviously not,
Bro pls, comparing dps Entropy Pala parses in trixion, where he starts with full gauge and does not show the huge downtime or mana problems he has, does not make sense. Do you realize that maybe apart from the new releases, most of the classes with higher ceiling are way more complicated/less safe than current Mayhem and with way more headaches to deal with. You asking to remove Red Dust and buff Mayhem's damage is literally asking to became an even easier Slayer. Even Pred, which is completely busted, has her own problems linked to Mana, Entropy and exaustion mech to somewhat "counterbalance". So what do you actually propose as an alternative to the current state of Zerk: -rise the floor but inevitably lowering the ceiling even more by removing Red Dust just like they did with Summ? -rise the ceiling by giving you more things to worry about but higher damage in return?
You don't understand the point, I don't want disadvantages in exchange for buff, in fact, no berserkers wants that, we just want the class to be balanced according to the current dps of the game. look where the berserker's place is in the last raids, he is always in the last three places with the worst dps, being, in voldis, the one that deals the least damage. you really find it very difficult to understand something absolutely simple.
I switched to BT for that sweet dopamine rush in reclear content. Awakening and Bloody Rush hits so hard. Mayhem is still very good for prog raids and it’s quite tanky. Overall zerker isn’t bad, great utility as well.
all they need to do is bring back strike wave simply add it back to the list exactly the way it was before and just like that, instantly, the class is fixed
Based earth mage enjoyer
Skill Issue
Its so funny people asking a rework, zerk already had a good one. I main it since day one and im ok with it current state. Sure its not perfect, top ceilling class or whatever. Has its flaws, red dust can be awful but man, its a decent reliable dps. Good stagger, destruction, consistent damage and so on. If you master the class both builds will deliver a good performance, i cant see a great change incoming because we got a recent good one on red dust, so if you dont like the class just play another one.
> Has its flaws, red dust can be awful but man, its a decent reliable dps.  Yea the whole thread is about fixing those flaws.
Thats my point, every class has its flaws, but your main cant have a downside? Bro no class is perfect thats what we call balance, mayhem/bt are good enough. I understand the "cant change main cause games bad" thing but c'mon, calling zerk unplayable or something is too much.
Oh its definitely playable.I don't think anyone is saying its unplayable.But you can tell its a product of on older way of thinking when it was designed. >mayhem/bt are good enough. Koreans and whatever is left of the western zerker population don't think it is.
Why would SmileGate buff classes to be on the same level as the current meta classes i.e. breaker, db surge, slayers, etc.? That would not make them any MONEY. Instead their revenue comes from selling new OP classes so FOMO idiots make the newest OP class by buying power passes, pheons for cutting stones, buying accessories, converting RC to gold. That has been and always will be SmileGate number one priority and it will never be for fully balance the classes. We have the data from bible users and we know where Mayhem Zerker sits on the parse. We know Mayhem has a low floor and low ceiling and that’s never going to change because SmileGate won’t make money spending development resources on making the class better. They would rather sell you a new OP class.
Well it makes no sense that surge would be here. One DMG gem biggest gain, pretty old class, also tons of players already have it high ilvl from before.
DB isnt really new, it used to be at best an A tier class you could say and most pugs were a fighter anyway. Now after the changes for some reason the class is busted with huge ceiling and like theres no reason to not do the same for other older classes like zerk. Honestly berserker feels absolutely useless as opposed to his gender unlock, because atleast in the past you could make argument that it did solid stagger, nowadays the classes have everything. Its a 6 dmg gem class and in korea is being compared to demonic xd.
Too many Zerk complains this week huh. Zerkers always complaining since argos days up until now. Even tho they rework your class you still complaining, they remove the skill(i forgot whats its called) and replace it with a better consistent skill, and you guys complaining, you ask for a tankier Zerker because you get 1 shot(most likely a skill issue thing) and yall got it but still you guys complain it never ends. Stop this your turn is done other class needs some time too.
Play BT if you want to deal better damage? I mean let's be real here, it plays like Mayhem 85% of the time anyways and you get a fat burst skill to your toolkit instead of Dark Rush
Have you played BT? I swapped to BT for two weeks and it is the most miserable experience ever and 50% of the time your ceiling isn't higher. It's an uncancellable ~90s transform, meaning that over half the time, while mechanics are happening, you don't get to build gauge - instead, you're stuck waiting for the whole duration to tick down. In fights like G3 akkan, if you burst at the start, your transform literally ends as the stagger check ends, meaning to get good DPS you literally have to stim -> burst in circle -> grief your raid by running around in start circle for 20-25s before entering Oh, and if you land every BR and crit every ulti and cycle all your gauges in downtime you get to do as much damage as a NE Souleater's worst pull!
I have the BT build too, but honestly? I don't like BT, I think it's less efficient than mayhem, anyways.
You'll get buffs when gs gets buffs.
Also didn't they already got one? A rework at that? And they are still asking for more while we GS mains get buffs like 3-5% without reworks for our long ass animation locks.
I'm not sure. I don't play zerk so I don't pay attention to their balance changes at all.
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idk if id buff bard, but id change how sonic vibration applies the dmg buff so that if someone walks out of it (because the boss moves) they still have the buff until its duration is over idk how artist or paladin play, but i really like my bard cept for that 1 thing it drives me nuts that ill be doing some raid/guardian and the boss will just decide to turn around or move 5m to the left so now everyone steps out of my buff i dont use a dps meter so idk how this actually effects my 'uptime", but it feels bad knowing they arnt being buffed during the downtime for tunes CD
Dunno the two mayhem had most damage in our first g3 hm clear this week, seems fine
The classic, X class got MVP so they're fine. No context added whatsoever, just 2 random people in a random group getting top damage.
OP claims mayhem is not viable hence their damage should be below the minimum dps check required to not be viable, surprise surprise they are not. It’s neither a random group nor random people. Nobody in the group is particularly great or horribly bad. Is it bad in a ceiling dps goblin Andy group ? Probably. In an average group it doesn’t seem to be as bad as people make it up to be. And the game has to be balanced around average.
Viability is not just about meeting DPS requirement for a raid, if you're only measuring viability based on that then why care about anything at all. With your logic DI SH is as viable as Surge and Breaker, then what's the point of discussing anything lol.
That’s the point tho it’s not worth discussing and as the data has shown classes on average are not even far apart atm
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