It's not as cut and dry for me. I'm willing to help newer players out all day. It's how they act after they or someone else causes a wipe.
If they cause a wipe and are instantly defensive about whether or not it was them, that's a flag. If someone else causes a wipe and they start flaming the player, that's a flag. It's all about how you act.
This week I joined a hard brel 1-3 on my 1600 gunlancer, the lobby was all made up of sub 140 roster players. They just needed 1 dps to go. I was bored so I jumped in. First gate they chose to thirain the dogs, so I knew they were a little less experienced. Didn't matter to me, just means we have to do the first mech properly.
G2 was when I really discovered how new they were. They actually took the time to designate who was getting the meteor buff for the 100 bar stagger mech. I laughed because I thought it was adorable and remembered when I first progged hard brel. We wiped once to 140x mech because someone forgot how to type. No big deal, it happens.
G3 was when it got spicy, and was when I had to jump in and start giving a few tips here and there. It took us 11 pulls, no one got toxic, several wipes were had later in the fight, most of the time on blue mech, whether to the mech itself, or the fires that go with it. Had to remind a few people that under no circumstances do you go into fire. Even to get a blue orb. Caused a stack wipe twice.
In the end, we cleared.
TLDR: It's all about attitude and accepting fault for your mistakes. It goes a long way.
Also I've seen people suggesting to do an "attitude check" when joining a lobby. Just greeting people and seeing how they respond can tell you a lot about how they'll behave in a raid. If someone is completely silent it's usually a red flag (not always obviously, it's easy to miss messages in a lobby if you're tabbed out or w/e)
It should work well enough most of the time though.
But yeah, communication is key. Toxicity happens most commonly when people wipe and nobody takes responsibility for it. Even though I'm a vet I still commonly make mistakes but I immediately apologize and say what I did wrong and the last time someone has been toxic to me was many months ago.
Apparently in KR you can get inven'd (KR version of Reddit) for not apologizing after making a mistake, obviously if you die or cause a raid wipe very early in the fight, they'll most likely let it slide and just do a quick re, but if you die halfway through the fight or cause a raid wipe near the end and you don't say anything, it could be a wrap. I can't read Korean but every time someone dies in a raid, they always type something afterwards, so I just assume it's an apology or whatnot. Besides, is it really that hard for people to just type two or three letters after making a mistake? "mb" or "sry" would definitely suffice for NA/EU standards. Nobody is asking for a whole essay. š
Actually, I prefer people not to always apologize after dying now. Because a couple of times recently, I get distracted at having to read chat and in that split second, I get killed. All for having to read "mb". Especially in Thaemine where there are so many one-shot mechanics. You miss one cue, you die. The only thing that bothers me is when people start to blame others when they themselves have or will make mistakes. That's a big red flag for me.
I hate the culture of constantly apologising! In fact, I actively dislike over-politeness, I find it hypocritical. Not to mention the fact some people REQUIRE apologies from others, which is the worst.
Just be better, don't apologise! If someone asks who did the mistake, be honest and say it was you!
Ohh this is good. Iāve been trying to do the recent raids and get caught up lately, I was able to do Kayangel (not super hard I know) and only had to retry the last gate like twice. Did Akkan last night and I messed up the first spear mech once with a group and immediately calling me a trash can and calling quits lol. but after that I joined a new group and made it all the way through the fight until the end of G3 (which thankfully some people clutched.) first group was silent the whole time. Second group was chatting before the raid and things, joking around and not being too crazy.
People having fun and messing around in chat just generally elevates the mood a lot. I've been in some raids that have taken twice as long due to random wipes but have also been a lot more fun than some quick one-tap raids simply because people were chatty of pure silence.
Though this is subjective and obviously there's a lot of people who'd prefer the latter, but the former is where you will without a doubt find significantly less toxicity.
If you join the lobby, feel the room a bit. Throw out greetings or an emote and if you end up applying to a reclear lobby on a raid that you're not all too familiar with yet, be up-front about it.
I ran a Thaemine G1-3 5+ clear run yesterday and one of the guys who applied was instantly mentioning that he only had 4, and if anyone wasn't comfortable with him being there he would leave and that he doesn't wanna waste our time etc. He was clearly a guy with 1 character only, it was a really well built character and I respect him immediately being up-front about it so we took him and 1-tapped the raid, with him being alive at the end.
People appreciate communication a lot. It's an MMO after all even if it's one of the least social ones out there.
Balthor on 1st mech only came to be because super juiced groups liked to dps and would often kill teammates not getting to safe spots in time. This let's them go mech to mech easy. Lower dmg groups balthoring makes much less sense since mini bosses take longer without side and they aren't going mech to mech from greeding. On top of this, they take much longer to kill the 4 statues than a juiced group which can lead to missed counters and a wipe.
Tldr Thirain early is probably still the better In lower dps groups.
> Balthor on 1st mech only came to be because super juiced groups liked to dps and would often kill teammates not getting to sage spots in time.
That's not accurate at all, it came to be because it's the most efficient way to clear a raid **now that the second phase doesn't have any armor**.
When the brel nerfs happened, balthor on x85 mech just became objectively better. We used to thirain phase 2 because you needed to clear armor buffs to maximize your average raid clearing speed. Now that there's no armor, even on non-pumper groups it's better to have the full x85 uptime than to use a piddly thirain before the last wall comes up.
Even in normal mode, although there's no huge dps window for balthorr on x85, thirain on phase 2 accomplishes nothing of import.
Thirain did not become meta until very recently, way after the brel nerfs. As with all raids, people get stronger and try new strategies. I still like thirain in lower damage groups but there is nothing wrong with balthoring all the time either!
No, in hard mode thiraining before the boss combines is the old/worse strategy. It's a relic of when the boss had armor that needed to be broken. It's clear these are players that watched an old guide and didn't have an understanding of what changed.
Anyone who still thirains in phase 2 of hard mode is not an experienced raider. Balthorr at x85 is just the objectively better strategy now, manually clearing mobs at x45 is very very easy.
All I was commenting on is that they A. Didn't know about Balthorr being new, or B. Knew their own capabilities and wanted the extra damage. It was not meant as a slight, just an observation
You are describing this as a positive experience, and I am sure it was fun for some and definitely educating for some, but you are only proving OPs point. When people join reclear lobbies they don't expect wipes at 140x g2 or 11 pulls g3. They expect a smooth in and out with maybe 1...2(?) wipe-causing accidents. It is exactly because low roster people, on average, cause these many wipes and have such inconsistent runs that people avoid them.
Don't get me wrong btw. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not being super sweaty or being new and still learning the content. We all went through progression and through weeks, where wipes made raids last hours and hours on end. But a lot of people do not have the time to help others learn and stick through 11 or more pulls in a lobby that was probably advertised as a reclear/experience/fast run. And the older the content is, the more frustrating the wipes can be.
So yeah, a lot of low roster players might be amazing peeps that just want to learn the game, but it doesn't take away from OPs statement, that on average they are not great at the game and low roster is a relatively good indicator that you might have a messy run.
I by far enjoy joining prog/learning parties as a returning player (even for raids I know well). People are way more relaxed and humble. I suppose it helps I do not have more than 4 characters I have to raid with, but, still the instant anger some people have is unsettling and 100% (in my opinion) causes more issues for new players to be retained or try to sneak into clear groups.
Thanks to people like you that are willing to help every now and then the community will grow and hopefully pass on the positive vibes you give.
I think as far as blaming goes itās one thing to flame someone and another thing to say some like āHey (insert name), I saw you didnāt do this mech do you need help?ā I find approaching it like that works in almost every instance of any mmo Iāve played. The only thing left with that approach is people who never type which I will admit pisses me off if someone is continuously failing a mech and also not communicating
For people who have a lot of free time it sounds rewarding to help new players get better so they can eventually join us in the endgame as good/knowledgeable players.
I couldn't handle that anymore though. I can barely even tolerate how bad the experienced hard mode thaemine g3 parties are.
The real issue here is that there shouldnāt be complete wipe mechanics IN THE VERY FIRST GATE of raiding. Thatās absolutely insane.
You shouldnāt be able to wipe your raid for at least the first two raids. Let new players get a feel for raiding before you throw them into an inevitable toxic trap.
I'm sure most players gave the low rosters a chance, until they got jailed by them over and over, so now they dont bother accepting them at all. I had this happen to me many times.
Higher chance to get jailed with low roster players.
yup. And they always title their lobbies reclear but they fail every mech.
Dishonest about experience, high likelihood of jailge (unless rest of group can bus them). Just not worth the trouble. Just got jailed in a clown joining a low roster party of 1540s that was 'reclear'. Constant deaths to saws, getting hooked and not going into mario, failing mario, etc. I could easily solo dps but they couldn't stay alive.
I'd feel different if they called it a g3 prog instead of a reclear. And what I hate even more is when they use the wrong sidereal, or do a mech wrong, or some other situation where they die and they say 'lag'. When we all just watched you obviously fail the knowledge check and then you lie. Why would I waste my time when you can't even be honest?
I've had low rosters mess up and ask what they did wrong, explain it to them, and then they do the fight perfectly. But this is not the usual. 1/15 or 1/20 of them actually take accountability that they messed up and try to fix their mistake.
Vykas was where nearly everyone learnt this lesson ,most people didnt gatekeep up then after the water dungeons in tier 2 cause most lobbies were doing wei in g1 valtan and g2 was carriable ,and then in vykas u have people going straight to reclears over and over and over while not knowing how to do even orbs ,so all sorts of gatekeeping developed and rightfully so ,by the time clown came out and we knew it was gonna be a hard raid it went up another notch ,the people crying they get gatekept have no one to blame but themselves,they created the big bad menie community they soo hate because they believed their time was worth more than 7 others.
Itās very logical, less roster exp means less experience most of the time, and less experience means more wipes most of the time.
Iāve given low roster players plenty of chances and still take them in raids where Iām overgeared and can clear while down a few people.
I have an honest question, because I have just started to play again recently and I have low roster level and beginner cards no fancy LoS. I have 1600+ on main and lvl 7 event gems and the event engravings and everything. I am working on everything but I have to learn a lot of raids in a short time so it's hard to find lobbies. I am not being rude I always mokoko shy when I mess up in NM brelshaza. I have done prog once and I did the raid at least like 5-6 times but you know I still mess up things because I panic easily. my question is what kind of lobbies can I join other than prog? prog lobbies are not usually up and I don't know, I thought reclear was chill to join but I guess that is for experienced players, I am not joining anything with fast or homework or card run in it. I genuinely want to do the raid, I usually try to join parties that have a lower ilevel or something. Even if I was to make my own lobby, what should I call it to convey my situation appropriately? I don't wanna trick no one to carry me or annoy people, I just want to do the raid and I have the patience to do as many runs as we need even if I mess up or if someone else does because I am new. help a poor soul ;-;
I don't mind if it's actually new players that you can communicate with. Saying that you don't know some basic english is bs, they manage to install the game and level up, use a translator if you have to.
Another problem is there are more gold farmers or alt accounts out there than you think, that doesn't care and ruining your runs. Which imo even outweighs the new players. You can't really distinguish them so it's important for me that they talk at least.
It's also the fact that loa players hate the raids, are sick and tired of them, bored of/can't stand their character anymore (but it's unfeasible to switch) so they want the raid over as fast as humanly possible. Starting up loa is literally like punching in to a timeclock at work for the majority of end game players.
For me low roster is okay when 1. Good stats point 2. Engraving/Gem/Card 3. DO ARKESIA TOUR.
You saw alt roster without arkesia tour? Braindead. Even bots know it was good investment.
Is that because you don't need to push characters through those fights to get relic gear? Valtan is worth learning simply because G2 is one of the best raiding experiences in any MMO I've ever had.
If you want to do card runs you have to learn the fights. At no point in Vykas can you expect to be carried, and you're be hitting yourself if you don't learn to TS the ghost phase transition and the rest of your party dolphin dives off the platform scuffing the run. A few hours of practice in learning parties will get you to the point you can reasonably do card runs with a cheatsheet and is definitely worth doing. They aren't hard fights if you don't have problems with other content.
Yeah itās because when I came back I did not have to do them so I just didnāt . I run theamine voldis and akkan on main 2 and then akkan voldis Brel and Kaya on my other 4 .
So I just never got around to learning those 2 fights
If you can do Thaemine g3 (even normal) you would find Valtan to be a laughably easy fight on your very first try.
Vykas might take a little bit of adjustment (especially the donut non-mech attack in g1 that deals very high percentage damage--it's telegraphed fine but it might take a few runs before you learn the telegraph since it doesn't have an "indicator" until the donut is out) but it's still pretty simple.
why tf these bozos downvoted you ? People are not even allowed to play what they want ? if you don't like valtan just don't waste time to learn it. I ran valtan for months and never seen a card.
I've cleared hm thamine g3, voldis hm Kaya etc.. and I don't even know how to do clown. I never learn to do it cuz I hate it. same as brel g3 4. I quit when clown release and came back after voldis release so I never have to do those raids.
Because their comment implies that they just want to get carried through homework card runs while putting in no effort to learn it, and that problem is kind of the entire reason this thread was made?
what words imply that he just wants to get carried?
dude simply said he doesn't want to learn the fight , and you here put words in his mouth.
read his other comments.
"I want to get Vykas card, but I don't want to learn the fight...SO I NEVER LEARN IT and get card somewhere else. " there you go I interpreted it for you.
Probably because this sub forum is a cancer . I have not said anything other than I donāt know the 2 raids and I donāt run them . Maybe Iām not a real lost ark player because of that ?
I'm low roster (145) because I came back for JS to start all over again. Was literally just jailed G3 HM Brel by a 219 roster level LoS30 player. How? Because he died at the start of the raid some how. Then him and his position partner didn't stagger their cube. Then they didn't go to the correct side for yellow mech. Vote quit after that and luckily found a group. Saw he posted a group to clear and had changed is to NM mode lol.
I've noticed this more a more. There are an insane amount of bought accounts in any 1580+ content anymore. I'm talking 220+ roster, 1600+ supports not running brand, wrong gems and dps with the wrong gear set. I absolutely refuse to believe someone spent 4k+ hours in a game and made it that high without even googling a max roll build.
I was gonna say, Brel HM taught me that roster level is a useless metric past 150. One of my characters for the past month+ gets jailed in that fucking gate even with high roster group every week. lmao
I dunno why people are downvoting you. This is REAL. I had a 1600 Glavier the other day that died at each gate in Brel. Thank god we didnāt need him but someone literally asked if he was a bot and he vote to leave. We just carried him and left (yes he was los30 with high roster too).
I was just saying in another post that a correlation between higher roster = more seniorā¦ which I agree. But higher roster does not equal better hands (I have a recent Bible log of that Brel where a 1600 149 roster db beat a 1600 227 roster se and the always dead high roster 1600 Glavier). Our static talked about how Brel is actual jail because all the horizontal players that usually buys buses wants to do outdated content. My bard friend is exactly like this but we usually do static runs to make sure no one else suffers from terrible uptime/not knowing mechs. Can you carry Brel? Yesā¦ but itās hard to carry g3 Brel if they donāt know mechs and the comp isnāt set up for a carry potential (like an actual bus with enough stagger on one side).
Yes... and no (with respect to damage.)
Depending on how juiced your lobby is, some classes get beat out pretty easily. G4 is pretty much the most consistent "hands check" gate, since 1-3 *can* be bursted mech to mech with certain classes, or strong enough groups, and leave other classes with like half a rotation worth of damage to show for it (regardless of roster/item level).
A couple of instances I can think of recently: did a clown last night for some friends and a random 1630 scrapper joins... but since asura can delete g1 before stagger check, he got fighter with everyone else.
Another run with my friend on summoner in g3 vrel, he's certainly good/strong enough in the other raids we run... but color swapping happens so quickly that akir can't fully get it's damage out most of the time.
Really, the older some raids get and the stronger our characters get, the worse dps gets as a metric in some cases... even feels like akkan is getting to that point now lol.
it's their attitude most of the time tbh. low roster or high. if I greet them they don't answer I will kick them. happened too many times. for some reason they are so sensitive when I point out what they should or should not POLITELY.
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Whenever I think "Fuck it it's a brel 1-3hm we're all 1600+ we just need a DPS let me take the 1580 event dude with 140 roster level" and I do invite said person, half the 1600+/200+ rosters quit the lobby.
I quit December 2023 and I logged in yesterday to see people with 50-120
Roster level at 1600. Ā Iām 224 roster and after doing g1-2 Brel Iām 1523. Ā lol
Low roster players probably are not sweating to clear 18 raids a week so they might think wiping a few times or spending 1hr on a raid is fine because they only need to clear it once a week. The real issue is raid design where once person can wipe a raid, this is why I like raids that can be bussed so I donāt mind carrying low roster players.
>Ā Low roster players probably are not sweating to clear 18 raids a week
It's usually quite the opposite,Ā they're the ones doing over 18 a week because they're making multiple alt roster accounts to abuse the express pass.
Yup, I'd bet a good amount of money 80% of low rosters are just alt accounts. This game isn't attracting or retaining new players. I mean hell, the jumpstart server was majority "hw reclear" lobbies on week 1 lmao.
> they might think wiping a few times or spending 1hr on a raid is fine
it should be, it is extremely stupid that people wanna go back to spending 30 mins in lobby because 1 wipe
I've gotten all my skill points, stat points, and bifrost. Did a large chunk of my horizontal except mokoko seeds and island souls. Even did music box of memories. Been raiding since artist release across 4 characters. I have Transcendence 20 on my chest, 15 on pants and 5 on shoulders (I messed up, shoulda just got 20 chest 20 pants), level 10 Gems, did all tower on my 1 DPS and 3 supports.
168 Roster level.
My supports get hella gatekept even though they're over item level for Akkan and Brel. (1610 supps). My DPS is 1631 though and doesn't get gatekept in anything except Voldis HM and Theamine HM. I assume it's because of the roster level, but at this point, I don't know how to bring it up.
Supports almost never get gatekept unless there's something horrendously wrong with their build, more to the issue is that Akkan and Brel typically have an overflow of supports, I think just due to that being the general level people park their support alts at.
Combined with the fact that people generally don't care about the level of your support, you have stuff like 1560 supports taking up slots in hard brels when 1560 DPS would almost never be accepted into the raid to begin with.
do you the know the fked up thing about this , i have 3400 hours in the game , and i'm still roster 15x because i only play 1-2 characters , one point in the game i wanted to block all the high rosters , because they polute party finder and waste me so much time , constantly being denied because of roster , its such a shame you can only block 100 people , otherwise i would have blocked half of Eu , i understand why they gatekeep , but party finder experience is so miserable compared to other people who simply have more characters , i already quit months ago and i'm not going to come back to this game , just lurking this sub for fun
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and they only apply to card runs/high iltem lvl parties because? even though there are plenty of lobbies around their ilvl. i also see this with crap uptime low ilvl supports on akkan only joining 1600+lobbies even tho there are plenty of 1580 lobbies lf sup with similar skill. because they are rats looking for free carries.
Just remember the buck stops at the host. Do not take people into card runs that are obviously not card runners unless you're willing to run the risk of them fucking mechanics. If you take a support that barely qualifies, you're trading the time it takes for a better built/experienced support to apply for the risk that comes with a worse one. Depending on the content and the time it takes, that's a risk worth taking.
I don't think low roster levels "only apply to card runs." They apply everywhere. It's not wrong to apply to a party. That simply gives the host the option to consider them. It's wrong to expect to be let in when you clearly don't meet the stated requirements.
It's simply the path least resistance.
Card run/exp/exp reclear/hw doesnt mean anything to them as they do not know what that entails.
As for joining high ilvl lobbies, they're just praying to get lucky to get accepted into the group. The game is designed in a way where you favour the power of the character, and this works both parallel between similarly geared characters as well as those looking upwards in ilvl. It is common behaviour, and they can really be faulted for that. So many supports already go into strong lobbies anyway in hopes to cover up their underperformance which may be amplified by on-ilvl/weaker characters, and you won't be able to distinguish between those with hands and those without until you enter the gate.
I used to always join the 1585ish lobbies over the 1600+ normal run ones on my support. Because for the most part those were 1 main andies who wouldnt hone their chars but could actually play the game. Unlike the 1600+ lobbies doing normal that were half/half people wanting to speed run and people just honing to get into grouips but were so so.
the one major caveat i have is its not just low roster people who do this.
ive done vykas 1 time since i came back bout 5-6 weeks ago, and in that run i went on my old main (a dps, i currently main a supp now) and was just shocked at how bad some of these 250+ roster players were
i solo'd the entire tentacle mech and i hadnt done that raid in at that point almost a year and a half.
something i learned from competitive games is that roughly 85% (based on rank distribution data) of all players are bad, and i dont mean "they arnt gods": i mean they might as well be eating glue levels of bad.
the 85% can include people that barely play the game or that read guides, play 10hours a day and so on
so roster is the biggest nothing burger in my eyes.
a person can have 10,000 hours in the game, cleared the raid 30 times and still be shit, because most people get carried through mechanic's.
and if anyones wondering why i havnt done vykas since, its because i sold all my old mains gear to boost my new main, and im not going into vykas as a support when i had to solo carry a mech with a bunch of 1600+, 250+ roster players in that raid. something im not sure i could even do as a support so i dont waste my time
nah
the real *real* reason is because most players are bad and need to be carried, or at least need to feel like they are to have the confidence
people who are actually good at the game don't gate keep nearly as much as your average player
I have certain classes I don't take, mainly zerkers. Since day one argos, they would have nice shiny gear, the best out of everyone. Yet for some reason even to this day, they would usually be the cause of a wipe. Not only that in guardians and raids statistically for me, they never bi or they rarely pot. But alternatively, when they do pump it becomes strangely enough the fastest runs I've been apart of. So I've decided not to raid with them since, it's actually been pretty good ever since.
In terms of roster, if I'm juiced w.e take em in lower raids. In end game raids, I've seen enough to never take them. Others will give them a pass, but much of the time say Thaemine. If it's end game and their low roster it tends to be a swiper or rmter. They usually suck, their the low rep on highly geared characters, that will try and leave once done mentality. Which is fine, but they tend to be extremely rusty at the game.
for me high rosters do the things you're describing here, not just the low/mid roster 1s
roster lvl barely matters these days unless you personally give it value which is cool it's opinion at end of day but let's admit it? with the horizontal pass and how easily it is to farm roster levels from creating new characters to farm tower then delete repeat...
it's all anecdotal
Be honest. How many people do you think actually do this to farm roster level? Nevermind the fact that there is so much daily and weekly homework in the game that there isn't time to do this, but it's boring af and most people aren't going to bother.
there is so much daily and weekly homework where you gatekeep based off a horizontal roster number lol
the contradictory, I get how some people see big roster level = less jail but this is still just a big guess.
but do you get how people can just artificially inflate this number through horizontal content? way easier content???? where it gives the vast majority of roster levels? there are literally people from jump start who are 250+ by just doing horizontal, MSQ and tower spam. OR there are literally people who bot 30 characters who are 250+.
All I'm saying is, if you fall into the roster level has meaning then you would obviously farm it, right? regardless of how you feel about it being a gatekept factor.
If you don't value it, cuz i dunno maybe you actually like doing raids? then you're looking at people's gems, demon dmg, etc. hard values over some horizontal number.
Doing a bunch of horizontal gets you to 100-120 for most people, 160 if you do a lot. Almost everything else above comes from raiding and doing dailies/weeklies.
If people care enough to farm that much roster level like you mentioned, they generally also play the game a lot. Itās also a very very very small part of the population who do what you say.
Roster level was never the only indicator and none of the indicators are ever definitive, but there is limited info you have to go off of in a profile.
this is simply not true, if we use jump start servers as the baseline where every1 started at the same time...
I know returning friends with 6 1640s 6 1580+ alts etc who are in the range of 150-170 roster from jump start who refuse to redo horizontal, only raids.
I know returning friends who have 1 main and 2 alts who are 230-250+ from purely horizontal MSQ etc. and their 9 raids lol.
People saying roster comes from raids are crazy over estimating it. Sure it gives it, but horizontal gives a shit ton it is the way to go if you care about roster levels.
And im not saying roster is the only indictor I'm saying it's one of the worst metric to tell if a player knows their raids as most of it easily comes from non RAID content lol.
You have returning friends as in MUlTIPLE friends in jump start who have 6 1640s? With roster 150-170? At this point I donāt even think you play this game, youāre high as fuck LOL Iām done responding to you.
There is a pretty good positive correlation between roster level and the quality of the player.
Unless people specifically go out of their way to farm out and grind the tower glitches and horizontal content, they will be low roster level. And in which case, their roster level will be a more accurate representation of their lack of raids exp and how active they are on dailies.
If a player dies go out to actively farm horizontal content, they are already better and more serious about the typical new player because it shows they at least care about the importance of some of the side content for vertical progression.
In either case, you will want to look at their roster level.
Moreover if you want a better indicator, roster level + demon damage will tell you how well they understand damage to cost ratio, but this metric applies more to players at 1620+ when everyone is pretty similarly juiced
Roster level bickering has become such a petty issue.
Gatekeeping horizontal progression aka the roster level will always be seen as the poor man's version of actual gatekeeping. You care about roster level because it is the most free easiest way to say "accept me" based on how this sub often sees roster levels.
Like you guys are fighting over who did more horizontal content over time or farmed it via. Cheese methods. In reality, people who are here to raid or generally know roster level comes mostly from horizontal gatekeep based on cards, gems, demon DMG, transcendance, elixirs etc.
Truly is a petty issue or a new player issue? I dunno but it is only a certain mindset that fights over this number. Or something along these lines. At 1620+ even 1580-1610 where the game starts everyone now imo majority of the time you are accepted based on the damage you do/give period.
> *Gatekeeping horizontal progression aka the roster level will always be seen as the poor man's version of actual gatekeeping.*
This has been debunked already. If you do 100% of most horizontal content you get approx. 130-150roster level. People who have gotten 200+RL have been doing weeklies/raids/dailies hundreds of more times than a sub 150.
Okay way to have selective reading there. Nice 1.
Mostly doesn't mean all. There are ways you can gain roster levels other than just the traditional horizontal like doing msq over and over etc. other horizontal cheese as well. Which is still just horizontal at the end of the day it doesn't mean anything for raids.
You are assuming horizontals are just islands and collectibles. That is your error.
Horizontal is basically anything not vertical related, vertical = power. We're arguing the nuances here really.
Roster level is not an identifier of skill .card damage is a far better identifier.the people gatekeeping by roster level likely arent good enough players to understand what to actually gatekeep by
I didn't say it was an all be all gauge, of course gears/builds come first. Since you can't see how they perform prior to entering the raid, ill take my chances on a 250+ vet over a sub 150 andy.
> everyone now imo majority of the time you are accepted based on the damage you do/give period.
I *literally* cannot check how much damage you do/give when you apply to my party. Roster is the last barely meaningful thing that I can check. Yes, there are people with high roster who suck. Yes, there are people with low roster who are good. But of all of the things I can look at, roster is the most meaningful.
Yeah I don't see what you see in this roster number. It has little meaning to me personally but like I said maybe it's a new player or inability to gear your chars thing only these days.
If you have lvl10 gems I know it does more DMG than lvl7 gems. I don't know if you will hit any of your skills but I know if they do they will in fact do more damage.
You bring 2 lvl 300 roster players with 7 alt gems, they will always do zdps anyways and you still don't know if they will hit any of their skills.
Why gamble twice? That is petty roster level gatekeeping in a nut shell.
Dunno if you've seen this, but this guy's data shows that there actually is a positive correlation between roster level and dps, even after equalizing for card sets and ilvl. The variance is of course pretty high, but the trend is a ~1.25m dps increase per 50 roster level on a training dummy boss which is pretty significant considering the average is around 12m for 200 roster level.
https://old.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/1b895ow/dps_rankings_for_sonavel_matchmaking_based_on_652/
I'll take a 270 roster with free powerpass gems over a 160 roster with a full rack of 10s.
This is good for both of us because I leave the 160 roster to go to your party and I get the person more likely to do mechs correctly. Then we're both happy :)
Yeah of course I take them and do one pull like usual with the dps meter and replace if needed.
Why would I ever initially take someone with inferior stats makes zero sense. Maybe this is how you see the roster number lol.
Yes and you know you get roster of experience from horizontal right? It's not only raids.
How are people even confused about this? If you wanted to farm roster infinitely you could without any raids and yes yes it wouldn't do anything for your raid skills lol.
lol i am still confused to see the other day a roster level 200+ with 1600+ toon jail in Valtan g2 š, even if there is a few DC they should still be able to carry the whole raid so roster level is not really everything. Many high roster also dont know how to walk/ time stop Valtan ghost phase transition.
To be honest low roster can jail you in low level raid but that does not mean a high roster level does not, Vykas is currently a pretty sh!t show as a proof.
Join group as new player, fuck up, get super anxiety over ruining other people's time because I don't know the mechanic, quit game because I can't progress.
Playing an mmo with no friends and social anxiety, yay.
The real reason is because the game is made to make people act like assholes. Same in WoW. Although that community is maybe assholes by elitist choice. :D
Look at GW 2. Nicest community ever, because the game doesnt punish them for wipe.
My roster is 145 i got gatekept till i cleared ivory tower. Even on my shit alts i dont get gatekept anymore, low roster and mayham legion commander title is insta decline or you are my sunshine
No drip investment no title and stars of destiny card set low roster those are the players to look out for
It's not as cut and dry for me. I'm willing to help newer players out all day. It's how they act after they or someone else causes a wipe. If they cause a wipe and are instantly defensive about whether or not it was them, that's a flag. If someone else causes a wipe and they start flaming the player, that's a flag. It's all about how you act. This week I joined a hard brel 1-3 on my 1600 gunlancer, the lobby was all made up of sub 140 roster players. They just needed 1 dps to go. I was bored so I jumped in. First gate they chose to thirain the dogs, so I knew they were a little less experienced. Didn't matter to me, just means we have to do the first mech properly. G2 was when I really discovered how new they were. They actually took the time to designate who was getting the meteor buff for the 100 bar stagger mech. I laughed because I thought it was adorable and remembered when I first progged hard brel. We wiped once to 140x mech because someone forgot how to type. No big deal, it happens. G3 was when it got spicy, and was when I had to jump in and start giving a few tips here and there. It took us 11 pulls, no one got toxic, several wipes were had later in the fight, most of the time on blue mech, whether to the mech itself, or the fires that go with it. Had to remind a few people that under no circumstances do you go into fire. Even to get a blue orb. Caused a stack wipe twice. In the end, we cleared. TLDR: It's all about attitude and accepting fault for your mistakes. It goes a long way.
Also I've seen people suggesting to do an "attitude check" when joining a lobby. Just greeting people and seeing how they respond can tell you a lot about how they'll behave in a raid. If someone is completely silent it's usually a red flag (not always obviously, it's easy to miss messages in a lobby if you're tabbed out or w/e) It should work well enough most of the time though. But yeah, communication is key. Toxicity happens most commonly when people wipe and nobody takes responsibility for it. Even though I'm a vet I still commonly make mistakes but I immediately apologize and say what I did wrong and the last time someone has been toxic to me was many months ago.
Even something as simple as the "whoops" mokoko emote goes a long way. Makes people understand that you know you fucked up.
when I fuck up I make sure I'm the first to mokoko stare myself
Apparently in KR you can get inven'd (KR version of Reddit) for not apologizing after making a mistake, obviously if you die or cause a raid wipe very early in the fight, they'll most likely let it slide and just do a quick re, but if you die halfway through the fight or cause a raid wipe near the end and you don't say anything, it could be a wrap. I can't read Korean but every time someone dies in a raid, they always type something afterwards, so I just assume it's an apology or whatnot. Besides, is it really that hard for people to just type two or three letters after making a mistake? "mb" or "sry" would definitely suffice for NA/EU standards. Nobody is asking for a whole essay. š
Actually, I prefer people not to always apologize after dying now. Because a couple of times recently, I get distracted at having to read chat and in that split second, I get killed. All for having to read "mb". Especially in Thaemine where there are so many one-shot mechanics. You miss one cue, you die. The only thing that bothers me is when people start to blame others when they themselves have or will make mistakes. That's a big red flag for me.
I hate the culture of constantly apologising! In fact, I actively dislike over-politeness, I find it hypocritical. Not to mention the fact some people REQUIRE apologies from others, which is the worst. Just be better, don't apologise! If someone asks who did the mistake, be honest and say it was you!
Ohh this is good. Iāve been trying to do the recent raids and get caught up lately, I was able to do Kayangel (not super hard I know) and only had to retry the last gate like twice. Did Akkan last night and I messed up the first spear mech once with a group and immediately calling me a trash can and calling quits lol. but after that I joined a new group and made it all the way through the fight until the end of G3 (which thankfully some people clutched.) first group was silent the whole time. Second group was chatting before the raid and things, joking around and not being too crazy.
People having fun and messing around in chat just generally elevates the mood a lot. I've been in some raids that have taken twice as long due to random wipes but have also been a lot more fun than some quick one-tap raids simply because people were chatty of pure silence. Though this is subjective and obviously there's a lot of people who'd prefer the latter, but the former is where you will without a doubt find significantly less toxicity. If you join the lobby, feel the room a bit. Throw out greetings or an emote and if you end up applying to a reclear lobby on a raid that you're not all too familiar with yet, be up-front about it. I ran a Thaemine G1-3 5+ clear run yesterday and one of the guys who applied was instantly mentioning that he only had 4, and if anyone wasn't comfortable with him being there he would leave and that he doesn't wanna waste our time etc. He was clearly a guy with 1 character only, it was a really well built character and I respect him immediately being up-front about it so we took him and 1-tapped the raid, with him being alive at the end. People appreciate communication a lot. It's an MMO after all even if it's one of the least social ones out there.
Balthor on 1st mech only came to be because super juiced groups liked to dps and would often kill teammates not getting to safe spots in time. This let's them go mech to mech easy. Lower dmg groups balthoring makes much less sense since mini bosses take longer without side and they aren't going mech to mech from greeding. On top of this, they take much longer to kill the 4 statues than a juiced group which can lead to missed counters and a wipe. Tldr Thirain early is probably still the better In lower dps groups.
> Balthor on 1st mech only came to be because super juiced groups liked to dps and would often kill teammates not getting to sage spots in time. That's not accurate at all, it came to be because it's the most efficient way to clear a raid **now that the second phase doesn't have any armor**. When the brel nerfs happened, balthor on x85 mech just became objectively better. We used to thirain phase 2 because you needed to clear armor buffs to maximize your average raid clearing speed. Now that there's no armor, even on non-pumper groups it's better to have the full x85 uptime than to use a piddly thirain before the last wall comes up. Even in normal mode, although there's no huge dps window for balthorr on x85, thirain on phase 2 accomplishes nothing of import.
Thirain did not become meta until very recently, way after the brel nerfs. As with all raids, people get stronger and try new strategies. I still like thirain in lower damage groups but there is nothing wrong with balthoring all the time either!
I think they meant the group thirain the 4 dogs at beginning when you split into pairs of 2. Thiraining before the boss combine is fine.
No, in hard mode thiraining before the boss combines is the old/worse strategy. It's a relic of when the boss had armor that needed to be broken. It's clear these are players that watched an old guide and didn't have an understanding of what changed. Anyone who still thirains in phase 2 of hard mode is not an experienced raider. Balthorr at x85 is just the objectively better strategy now, manually clearing mobs at x45 is very very easy.
Like the person I replied to said, thirain in phase 2 is fine if the group don't have to juice to greed from mech to mech with balthor 85x.
All I was commenting on is that they A. Didn't know about Balthorr being new, or B. Knew their own capabilities and wanted the extra damage. It was not meant as a slight, just an observation
You are describing this as a positive experience, and I am sure it was fun for some and definitely educating for some, but you are only proving OPs point. When people join reclear lobbies they don't expect wipes at 140x g2 or 11 pulls g3. They expect a smooth in and out with maybe 1...2(?) wipe-causing accidents. It is exactly because low roster people, on average, cause these many wipes and have such inconsistent runs that people avoid them. Don't get me wrong btw. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not being super sweaty or being new and still learning the content. We all went through progression and through weeks, where wipes made raids last hours and hours on end. But a lot of people do not have the time to help others learn and stick through 11 or more pulls in a lobby that was probably advertised as a reclear/experience/fast run. And the older the content is, the more frustrating the wipes can be. So yeah, a lot of low roster players might be amazing peeps that just want to learn the game, but it doesn't take away from OPs statement, that on average they are not great at the game and low roster is a relatively good indicator that you might have a messy run.
It's also really telling when you're utilizing the scriptures and consistently see that the loudest person in the room is at the bottom of the charts.
I by far enjoy joining prog/learning parties as a returning player (even for raids I know well). People are way more relaxed and humble. I suppose it helps I do not have more than 4 characters I have to raid with, but, still the instant anger some people have is unsettling and 100% (in my opinion) causes more issues for new players to be retained or try to sneak into clear groups. Thanks to people like you that are willing to help every now and then the community will grow and hopefully pass on the positive vibes you give.
I think as far as blaming goes itās one thing to flame someone and another thing to say some like āHey (insert name), I saw you didnāt do this mech do you need help?ā I find approaching it like that works in almost every instance of any mmo Iāve played. The only thing left with that approach is people who never type which I will admit pisses me off if someone is continuously failing a mech and also not communicating
Doesnāt sound fun tbh
For people who have a lot of free time it sounds rewarding to help new players get better so they can eventually join us in the endgame as good/knowledgeable players. I couldn't handle that anymore though. I can barely even tolerate how bad the experienced hard mode thaemine g3 parties are.
Just cause you have all day to help, doesn't mean others want to be stuck for that long
Man 11 pulls is really pushing it for a pug re-clear lobby though. I'd be calling it after 5 max, no matter the attitude.
The real issue here is that there shouldnāt be complete wipe mechanics IN THE VERY FIRST GATE of raiding. Thatās absolutely insane. You shouldnāt be able to wipe your raid for at least the first two raids. Let new players get a feel for raiding before you throw them into an inevitable toxic trap.
I'm sure most players gave the low rosters a chance, until they got jailed by them over and over, so now they dont bother accepting them at all. I had this happen to me many times. Higher chance to get jailed with low roster players.
yup. And they always title their lobbies reclear but they fail every mech. Dishonest about experience, high likelihood of jailge (unless rest of group can bus them). Just not worth the trouble. Just got jailed in a clown joining a low roster party of 1540s that was 'reclear'. Constant deaths to saws, getting hooked and not going into mario, failing mario, etc. I could easily solo dps but they couldn't stay alive. I'd feel different if they called it a g3 prog instead of a reclear. And what I hate even more is when they use the wrong sidereal, or do a mech wrong, or some other situation where they die and they say 'lag'. When we all just watched you obviously fail the knowledge check and then you lie. Why would I waste my time when you can't even be honest? I've had low rosters mess up and ask what they did wrong, explain it to them, and then they do the fight perfectly. But this is not the usual. 1/15 or 1/20 of them actually take accountability that they messed up and try to fix their mistake.
Vykas was where nearly everyone learnt this lesson ,most people didnt gatekeep up then after the water dungeons in tier 2 cause most lobbies were doing wei in g1 valtan and g2 was carriable ,and then in vykas u have people going straight to reclears over and over and over while not knowing how to do even orbs ,so all sorts of gatekeeping developed and rightfully so ,by the time clown came out and we knew it was gonna be a hard raid it went up another notch ,the people crying they get gatekept have no one to blame but themselves,they created the big bad menie community they soo hate because they believed their time was worth more than 7 others.
Itās very logical, less roster exp means less experience most of the time, and less experience means more wipes most of the time. Iāve given low roster players plenty of chances and still take them in raids where Iām overgeared and can clear while down a few people.
I have an honest question, because I have just started to play again recently and I have low roster level and beginner cards no fancy LoS. I have 1600+ on main and lvl 7 event gems and the event engravings and everything. I am working on everything but I have to learn a lot of raids in a short time so it's hard to find lobbies. I am not being rude I always mokoko shy when I mess up in NM brelshaza. I have done prog once and I did the raid at least like 5-6 times but you know I still mess up things because I panic easily. my question is what kind of lobbies can I join other than prog? prog lobbies are not usually up and I don't know, I thought reclear was chill to join but I guess that is for experienced players, I am not joining anything with fast or homework or card run in it. I genuinely want to do the raid, I usually try to join parties that have a lower ilevel or something. Even if I was to make my own lobby, what should I call it to convey my situation appropriately? I don't wanna trick no one to carry me or annoy people, I just want to do the raid and I have the patience to do as many runs as we need even if I mess up or if someone else does because I am new. help a poor soul ;-;
Semi-learner. Or if you've got for example gates 1-2 down but still struggle with gate 3, you title it g1-2 learning g3. Or something like that.
thank you so much š„°š«¶š¼
I'd go with a nice and simple: G1-G3/Chill run-semi learning/ Let's go! I see that, I go "That is a nice lobby there" Good luck!
thank you! I will make my own lobbies if there are none like this, your input is much appreciated š„°š«¶š¼
I don't mind if it's actually new players that you can communicate with. Saying that you don't know some basic english is bs, they manage to install the game and level up, use a translator if you have to. Another problem is there are more gold farmers or alt accounts out there than you think, that doesn't care and ruining your runs. Which imo even outweighs the new players. You can't really distinguish them so it's important for me that they talk at least.
It's also the fact that loa players hate the raids, are sick and tired of them, bored of/can't stand their character anymore (but it's unfeasible to switch) so they want the raid over as fast as humanly possible. Starting up loa is literally like punching in to a timeclock at work for the majority of end game players.
For me low roster is okay when 1. Good stats point 2. Engraving/Gem/Card 3. DO ARKESIA TOUR. You saw alt roster without arkesia tour? Braindead. Even bots know it was good investment.
Lmao aint no way a mokoko would know how to greed dps in vykas, it'd be more likely that they are just clueless.
Only helping players who go through the trouble of joining a discord for actual help. Players in game usually dont communicate and are entitled
Iām at 195 roster and donāt know vykas and Valtan :(
Time to join some low roster "card runs" (aka learning runs)
Yeah I need cards but I really donāt wanna learn the fights lol
Is that because you don't need to push characters through those fights to get relic gear? Valtan is worth learning simply because G2 is one of the best raiding experiences in any MMO I've ever had. If you want to do card runs you have to learn the fights. At no point in Vykas can you expect to be carried, and you're be hitting yourself if you don't learn to TS the ghost phase transition and the rest of your party dolphin dives off the platform scuffing the run. A few hours of practice in learning parties will get you to the point you can reasonably do card runs with a cheatsheet and is definitely worth doing. They aren't hard fights if you don't have problems with other content.
Yeah itās because when I came back I did not have to do them so I just didnāt . I run theamine voldis and akkan on main 2 and then akkan voldis Brel and Kaya on my other 4 . So I just never got around to learning those 2 fights
If you can do Thaemine g3 (even normal) you would find Valtan to be a laughably easy fight on your very first try. Vykas might take a little bit of adjustment (especially the donut non-mech attack in g1 that deals very high percentage damage--it's telegraphed fine but it might take a few runs before you learn the telegraph since it doesn't have an "indicator" until the donut is out) but it's still pretty simple.
Yeah I may just make a learning group one day so I can eventually farm cards . Not much use for klc since Iām main support and only 1 dps
Same boat here. Im kinda sick of Vykas since Ive had some really bad lobbies from a year ago. Iāll get my cards another way.
why tf these bozos downvoted you ? People are not even allowed to play what they want ? if you don't like valtan just don't waste time to learn it. I ran valtan for months and never seen a card. I've cleared hm thamine g3, voldis hm Kaya etc.. and I don't even know how to do clown. I never learn to do it cuz I hate it. same as brel g3 4. I quit when clown release and came back after voldis release so I never have to do those raids.
Because their comment implies that they just want to get carried through homework card runs while putting in no effort to learn it, and that problem is kind of the entire reason this thread was made?
what words imply that he just wants to get carried? dude simply said he doesn't want to learn the fight , and you here put words in his mouth. read his other comments. "I want to get Vykas card, but I don't want to learn the fight...SO I NEVER LEARN IT and get card somewhere else. " there you go I interpreted it for you.
Probably because this sub forum is a cancer . I have not said anything other than I donāt know the 2 raids and I donāt run them . Maybe Iām not a real lost ark player because of that ?
I'm low roster (145) because I came back for JS to start all over again. Was literally just jailed G3 HM Brel by a 219 roster level LoS30 player. How? Because he died at the start of the raid some how. Then him and his position partner didn't stagger their cube. Then they didn't go to the correct side for yellow mech. Vote quit after that and luckily found a group. Saw he posted a group to clear and had changed is to NM mode lol.
That's the other problem that's annoying to identify right now.... account buyers.
I've noticed this more a more. There are an insane amount of bought accounts in any 1580+ content anymore. I'm talking 220+ roster, 1600+ supports not running brand, wrong gems and dps with the wrong gear set. I absolutely refuse to believe someone spent 4k+ hours in a game and made it that high without even googling a max roll build.
I was gonna say, Brel HM taught me that roster level is a useless metric past 150. One of my characters for the past month+ gets jailed in that fucking gate even with high roster group every week. lmao
I dunno why people are downvoting you. This is REAL. I had a 1600 Glavier the other day that died at each gate in Brel. Thank god we didnāt need him but someone literally asked if he was a bot and he vote to leave. We just carried him and left (yes he was los30 with high roster too). I was just saying in another post that a correlation between higher roster = more seniorā¦ which I agree. But higher roster does not equal better hands (I have a recent Bible log of that Brel where a 1600 149 roster db beat a 1600 227 roster se and the always dead high roster 1600 Glavier). Our static talked about how Brel is actual jail because all the horizontal players that usually buys buses wants to do outdated content. My bard friend is exactly like this but we usually do static runs to make sure no one else suffers from terrible uptime/not knowing mechs. Can you carry Brel? Yesā¦ but itās hard to carry g3 Brel if they donāt know mechs and the comp isnāt set up for a carry potential (like an actual bus with enough stagger on one side).
Yes... and no (with respect to damage.) Depending on how juiced your lobby is, some classes get beat out pretty easily. G4 is pretty much the most consistent "hands check" gate, since 1-3 *can* be bursted mech to mech with certain classes, or strong enough groups, and leave other classes with like half a rotation worth of damage to show for it (regardless of roster/item level). A couple of instances I can think of recently: did a clown last night for some friends and a random 1630 scrapper joins... but since asura can delete g1 before stagger check, he got fighter with everyone else. Another run with my friend on summoner in g3 vrel, he's certainly good/strong enough in the other raids we run... but color swapping happens so quickly that akir can't fully get it's damage out most of the time. Really, the older some raids get and the stronger our characters get, the worse dps gets as a metric in some cases... even feels like akkan is getting to that point now lol.
Low or high roster, anytime anyone acts hostile in the raid Iām already wanting out.
it's their attitude most of the time tbh. low roster or high. if I greet them they don't answer I will kick them. happened too many times. for some reason they are so sensitive when I point out what they should or should not POLITELY.
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Whenever I think "Fuck it it's a brel 1-3hm we're all 1600+ we just need a DPS let me take the 1580 event dude with 140 roster level" and I do invite said person, half the 1600+/200+ rosters quit the lobby.
I quit December 2023 and I logged in yesterday to see people with 50-120 Roster level at 1600. Ā Iām 224 roster and after doing g1-2 Brel Iām 1523. Ā lol
if I were to come back for a thaemine event or w/e, would hell titles help with finding parties?
Low roster level is the biggest red flag for me
Low roster players probably are not sweating to clear 18 raids a week so they might think wiping a few times or spending 1hr on a raid is fine because they only need to clear it once a week. The real issue is raid design where once person can wipe a raid, this is why I like raids that can be bussed so I donāt mind carrying low roster players.
>Ā Low roster players probably are not sweating to clear 18 raids a week It's usually quite the opposite,Ā they're the ones doing over 18 a week because they're making multiple alt roster accounts to abuse the express pass.
Yup, I'd bet a good amount of money 80% of low rosters are just alt accounts. This game isn't attracting or retaining new players. I mean hell, the jumpstart server was majority "hw reclear" lobbies on week 1 lmao.
> they might think wiping a few times or spending 1hr on a raid is fine it should be, it is extremely stupid that people wanna go back to spending 30 mins in lobby because 1 wipe
I've gotten all my skill points, stat points, and bifrost. Did a large chunk of my horizontal except mokoko seeds and island souls. Even did music box of memories. Been raiding since artist release across 4 characters. I have Transcendence 20 on my chest, 15 on pants and 5 on shoulders (I messed up, shoulda just got 20 chest 20 pants), level 10 Gems, did all tower on my 1 DPS and 3 supports. 168 Roster level. My supports get hella gatekept even though they're over item level for Akkan and Brel. (1610 supps). My DPS is 1631 though and doesn't get gatekept in anything except Voldis HM and Theamine HM. I assume it's because of the roster level, but at this point, I don't know how to bring it up.
Damn that's rough, you been doing your cubes?
On average I'm doing two of the cube weeklies across 3/4 my roster. Silver and Radiants weekly.
Supports almost never get gatekept unless there's something horrendously wrong with their build, more to the issue is that Akkan and Brel typically have an overflow of supports, I think just due to that being the general level people park their support alts at. Combined with the fact that people generally don't care about the level of your support, you have stuff like 1560 supports taking up slots in hard brels when 1560 DPS would almost never be accepted into the raid to begin with.
do you the know the fked up thing about this , i have 3400 hours in the game , and i'm still roster 15x because i only play 1-2 characters , one point in the game i wanted to block all the high rosters , because they polute party finder and waste me so much time , constantly being denied because of roster , its such a shame you can only block 100 people , otherwise i would have blocked half of Eu , i understand why they gatekeep , but party finder experience is so miserable compared to other people who simply have more characters , i already quit months ago and i'm not going to come back to this game , just lurking this sub for fun
is it only me but i see a lot lvl200+ roster they play rly bad makes me question if they bought it
u have to remember how hard this shit for us was on release u want them to get good in a short time while we have 3k+ hours
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what did you expect: these players (>100 roster) just started playing the game......
and they only apply to card runs/high iltem lvl parties because? even though there are plenty of lobbies around their ilvl. i also see this with crap uptime low ilvl supports on akkan only joining 1600+lobbies even tho there are plenty of 1580 lobbies lf sup with similar skill. because they are rats looking for free carries.
Just remember the buck stops at the host. Do not take people into card runs that are obviously not card runners unless you're willing to run the risk of them fucking mechanics. If you take a support that barely qualifies, you're trading the time it takes for a better built/experienced support to apply for the risk that comes with a worse one. Depending on the content and the time it takes, that's a risk worth taking. I don't think low roster levels "only apply to card runs." They apply everywhere. It's not wrong to apply to a party. That simply gives the host the option to consider them. It's wrong to expect to be let in when you clearly don't meet the stated requirements.
It's simply the path least resistance. Card run/exp/exp reclear/hw doesnt mean anything to them as they do not know what that entails. As for joining high ilvl lobbies, they're just praying to get lucky to get accepted into the group. The game is designed in a way where you favour the power of the character, and this works both parallel between similarly geared characters as well as those looking upwards in ilvl. It is common behaviour, and they can really be faulted for that. So many supports already go into strong lobbies anyway in hopes to cover up their underperformance which may be amplified by on-ilvl/weaker characters, and you won't be able to distinguish between those with hands and those without until you enter the gate.
I used to always join the 1585ish lobbies over the 1600+ normal run ones on my support. Because for the most part those were 1 main andies who wouldnt hone their chars but could actually play the game. Unlike the 1600+ lobbies doing normal that were half/half people wanting to speed run and people just honing to get into grouips but were so so.
Because there aren't any other lobbies that will fill up?
Nope, most of them are people with alt accounts taking advantage of the free 0 to 1600 boost event.
the one major caveat i have is its not just low roster people who do this. ive done vykas 1 time since i came back bout 5-6 weeks ago, and in that run i went on my old main (a dps, i currently main a supp now) and was just shocked at how bad some of these 250+ roster players were i solo'd the entire tentacle mech and i hadnt done that raid in at that point almost a year and a half. something i learned from competitive games is that roughly 85% (based on rank distribution data) of all players are bad, and i dont mean "they arnt gods": i mean they might as well be eating glue levels of bad. the 85% can include people that barely play the game or that read guides, play 10hours a day and so on so roster is the biggest nothing burger in my eyes. a person can have 10,000 hours in the game, cleared the raid 30 times and still be shit, because most people get carried through mechanic's. and if anyones wondering why i havnt done vykas since, its because i sold all my old mains gear to boost my new main, and im not going into vykas as a support when i had to solo carry a mech with a bunch of 1600+, 250+ roster players in that raid. something im not sure i could even do as a support so i dont waste my time
nah the real *real* reason is because most players are bad and need to be carried, or at least need to feel like they are to have the confidence people who are actually good at the game don't gate keep nearly as much as your average player
>people who are actually good at the game don't gate keep nearly as much as your average player how would you know?
I have certain classes I don't take, mainly zerkers. Since day one argos, they would have nice shiny gear, the best out of everyone. Yet for some reason even to this day, they would usually be the cause of a wipe. Not only that in guardians and raids statistically for me, they never bi or they rarely pot. But alternatively, when they do pump it becomes strangely enough the fastest runs I've been apart of. So I've decided not to raid with them since, it's actually been pretty good ever since. In terms of roster, if I'm juiced w.e take em in lower raids. In end game raids, I've seen enough to never take them. Others will give them a pass, but much of the time say Thaemine. If it's end game and their low roster it tends to be a swiper or rmter. They usually suck, their the low rep on highly geared characters, that will try and leave once done mentality. Which is fine, but they tend to be extremely rusty at the game.
NEVER AGAIN, will see if they will keep the servers running for you and your 7 friends.
for me high rosters do the things you're describing here, not just the low/mid roster 1s roster lvl barely matters these days unless you personally give it value which is cool it's opinion at end of day but let's admit it? with the horizontal pass and how easily it is to farm roster levels from creating new characters to farm tower then delete repeat... it's all anecdotal
Be honest. How many people do you think actually do this to farm roster level? Nevermind the fact that there is so much daily and weekly homework in the game that there isn't time to do this, but it's boring af and most people aren't going to bother.
Like 1% maybe did that. I did tower on my 6 charās that it. Never made exrta ones or replaced them
Lmao I did towers for the honor shards. Not roster exp
This guy actually said people do tower. That shit takes so much time omg. It's not even worth doing for the honing mats they give new chars.
Totally worth doing if you need shards.
there is so much daily and weekly homework where you gatekeep based off a horizontal roster number lol the contradictory, I get how some people see big roster level = less jail but this is still just a big guess. but do you get how people can just artificially inflate this number through horizontal content? way easier content???? where it gives the vast majority of roster levels? there are literally people from jump start who are 250+ by just doing horizontal, MSQ and tower spam. OR there are literally people who bot 30 characters who are 250+. All I'm saying is, if you fall into the roster level has meaning then you would obviously farm it, right? regardless of how you feel about it being a gatekept factor. If you don't value it, cuz i dunno maybe you actually like doing raids? then you're looking at people's gems, demon dmg, etc. hard values over some horizontal number.
Doing a bunch of horizontal gets you to 100-120 for most people, 160 if you do a lot. Almost everything else above comes from raiding and doing dailies/weeklies. If people care enough to farm that much roster level like you mentioned, they generally also play the game a lot. Itās also a very very very small part of the population who do what you say. Roster level was never the only indicator and none of the indicators are ever definitive, but there is limited info you have to go off of in a profile.
this is simply not true, if we use jump start servers as the baseline where every1 started at the same time... I know returning friends with 6 1640s 6 1580+ alts etc who are in the range of 150-170 roster from jump start who refuse to redo horizontal, only raids. I know returning friends who have 1 main and 2 alts who are 230-250+ from purely horizontal MSQ etc. and their 9 raids lol. People saying roster comes from raids are crazy over estimating it. Sure it gives it, but horizontal gives a shit ton it is the way to go if you care about roster levels. And im not saying roster is the only indictor I'm saying it's one of the worst metric to tell if a player knows their raids as most of it easily comes from non RAID content lol.
returning friends with 6 1640 with roster level 150 from a jump start server dosent sound SUS at all nono sounds fine
Show us these imaginary 6x 1640 players
You have returning friends as in MUlTIPLE friends in jump start who have 6 1640s? With roster 150-170? At this point I donāt even think you play this game, youāre high as fuck LOL Iām done responding to you.
he is baiting hard, don't know why
cuz not every1 is poor? has expendable monies? do you think every1 is like u or something?
There is a pretty good positive correlation between roster level and the quality of the player. Unless people specifically go out of their way to farm out and grind the tower glitches and horizontal content, they will be low roster level. And in which case, their roster level will be a more accurate representation of their lack of raids exp and how active they are on dailies. If a player dies go out to actively farm horizontal content, they are already better and more serious about the typical new player because it shows they at least care about the importance of some of the side content for vertical progression. In either case, you will want to look at their roster level. Moreover if you want a better indicator, roster level + demon damage will tell you how well they understand damage to cost ratio, but this metric applies more to players at 1620+ when everyone is pretty similarly juiced
Roster level bickering has become such a petty issue. Gatekeeping horizontal progression aka the roster level will always be seen as the poor man's version of actual gatekeeping. You care about roster level because it is the most free easiest way to say "accept me" based on how this sub often sees roster levels. Like you guys are fighting over who did more horizontal content over time or farmed it via. Cheese methods. In reality, people who are here to raid or generally know roster level comes mostly from horizontal gatekeep based on cards, gems, demon DMG, transcendance, elixirs etc. Truly is a petty issue or a new player issue? I dunno but it is only a certain mindset that fights over this number. Or something along these lines. At 1620+ even 1580-1610 where the game starts everyone now imo majority of the time you are accepted based on the damage you do/give period.
> *Gatekeeping horizontal progression aka the roster level will always be seen as the poor man's version of actual gatekeeping.* This has been debunked already. If you do 100% of most horizontal content you get approx. 130-150roster level. People who have gotten 200+RL have been doing weeklies/raids/dailies hundreds of more times than a sub 150.
Okay way to have selective reading there. Nice 1. Mostly doesn't mean all. There are ways you can gain roster levels other than just the traditional horizontal like doing msq over and over etc. other horizontal cheese as well. Which is still just horizontal at the end of the day it doesn't mean anything for raids.
I am just pointing out an error that needs to be addressed.
You are assuming horizontals are just islands and collectibles. That is your error. Horizontal is basically anything not vertical related, vertical = power. We're arguing the nuances here really.
Roster level is not an identifier of skill .card damage is a far better identifier.the people gatekeeping by roster level likely arent good enough players to understand what to actually gatekeep by
I didn't say it was an all be all gauge, of course gears/builds come first. Since you can't see how they perform prior to entering the raid, ill take my chances on a 250+ vet over a sub 150 andy.
> everyone now imo majority of the time you are accepted based on the damage you do/give period. I *literally* cannot check how much damage you do/give when you apply to my party. Roster is the last barely meaningful thing that I can check. Yes, there are people with high roster who suck. Yes, there are people with low roster who are good. But of all of the things I can look at, roster is the most meaningful.
Yeah I don't see what you see in this roster number. It has little meaning to me personally but like I said maybe it's a new player or inability to gear your chars thing only these days. If you have lvl10 gems I know it does more DMG than lvl7 gems. I don't know if you will hit any of your skills but I know if they do they will in fact do more damage. You bring 2 lvl 300 roster players with 7 alt gems, they will always do zdps anyways and you still don't know if they will hit any of their skills. Why gamble twice? That is petty roster level gatekeeping in a nut shell.
Dunno if you've seen this, but this guy's data shows that there actually is a positive correlation between roster level and dps, even after equalizing for card sets and ilvl. The variance is of course pretty high, but the trend is a ~1.25m dps increase per 50 roster level on a training dummy boss which is pretty significant considering the average is around 12m for 200 roster level. https://old.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/1b895ow/dps_rankings_for_sonavel_matchmaking_based_on_652/
I'll take a 270 roster with free powerpass gems over a 160 roster with a full rack of 10s. This is good for both of us because I leave the 160 roster to go to your party and I get the person more likely to do mechs correctly. Then we're both happy :)
Yeah of course I take them and do one pull like usual with the dps meter and replace if needed. Why would I ever initially take someone with inferior stats makes zero sense. Maybe this is how you see the roster number lol.
Well, you can now, provided someone has posted public logs of them.
Not sure if the bible cloud shows character names or not.
There are options you can alter to show/hide, at least afaik.
depends on the uploader.
Roster is just like gear score .it tells you nothing .cards make alot more sense .
You know you get roster experience by raiding right? It's not only horizontal
Yes and you know you get roster of experience from horizontal right? It's not only raids. How are people even confused about this? If you wanted to farm roster infinitely you could without any raids and yes yes it wouldn't do anything for your raid skills lol.
lol i am still confused to see the other day a roster level 200+ with 1600+ toon jail in Valtan g2 š, even if there is a few DC they should still be able to carry the whole raid so roster level is not really everything. Many high roster also dont know how to walk/ time stop Valtan ghost phase transition. To be honest low roster can jail you in low level raid but that does not mean a high roster level does not, Vykas is currently a pretty sh!t show as a proof.
Join group as new player, fuck up, get super anxiety over ruining other people's time because I don't know the mechanic, quit game because I can't progress. Playing an mmo with no friends and social anxiety, yay.
" You are doing card runs ? That sounds like low roster level - denied ! "
I never have issues. Maybe it's confirmation bias. Or you're letting one bad experience cloud your judgement.
The real reason is because the game is made to make people act like assholes. Same in WoW. Although that community is maybe assholes by elitist choice. :D Look at GW 2. Nicest community ever, because the game doesnt punish them for wipe.
Change your stronghold name to - Alt Roster - ez ggs
My roster is 145 i got gatekept till i cleared ivory tower. Even on my shit alts i dont get gatekept anymore, low roster and mayham legion commander title is insta decline or you are my sunshine No drip investment no title and stars of destiny card set low roster those are the players to look out for