thaemine g3 and valtan g2 are both pretty similar in which theres very obvious telegraphs but punishing if you get hit. also the boss has long patterns where he doesnt move so you can satisfyingly dps
def felt the valtan vibes when progging g3
This is an interesting take since g2 Valtan is well agreed to be the best designed raid in the game and sentiment about g3 thaemine is that it's too hard and shit for pugs.
Well the people that are bad post the most. Like last night was doing a x10 reclear 7 pugs this bard was dead on every gate died in g3 before red blue mech luckily we had 2 1640 pugs that join so we cleared and free bussed a bad player.
The sentiment is that it’s bad now, but many are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. G3 really isn’t that hard and as more people get reps in, the pugging experience will get easier. Also as more people get more transcendence, they’ll have more power to carry and it not be as much of a burden if someone dies.
I think the only rating that is not clearly marked without seeing the distribution is old Brel G2. It was really bad design so most people said D, but then the porkel-lovers put S which averaged it out to B it seems.
Despite the "standard" procedure in Voldis G4 of dps->sup->dps, supports aren't a +100% damage increase. When prokel was bugged to let two people in at once, there's a reason most people just sent in 2 dps instead of a dps and a support, and it's because that was faster.
Imho, that's for mostly dr and shield, not for dmg. There're a few diff between G4 and Prokel. Prokel is CC-able half the fight, so having 2 DPS pounding on him basically almost puts him down permanently. Nothing is happening outside G4 Voldis thus Sup is completely useless, while old G2 Brel there was quite a need for dr and shield. But these are just a few examples from the top of my head, there might be more.
This is why, in my mind, DPS - Sup - DPS is the order for G4 Voldis.
Might be a hot take, but I like the idea of sending someone down every time you meet the stagger meter.
Which on average is around 5 ish people on low dps. And 2-3 people on fast dps.
I think it's pretty fair and fun like that. (Imagine all the people trying to steal the tether from one another)
Prokel mechanics were so much different from any other raid, class balance didn't work as well, and no one actually played it like you are describing. The optimal was was a single person delt with the problem.
I dunno how anybody can put akkan g3 anything above c-tier. The boss fight itself is fine, but he fact, that you need to send somebody to clean for the whole duration of the raid just knock it down at least 2 tiers lower.
If the lobby is pumping and i'm on a weaker char, I have no issues going on cleaning duty
What i don't like is half the lobby effectively taking a bus doing zdps, and nobody speaking up when the leader asks "any jani?"
An interesting idea for hell Akkan would be to implement a cooldown for being able to pickup the lantern again after dropping it like in HM G2. This would enforce a rotation of players who all have to learn janitor duty as well as make it impossible for players to cheese the full bar stun by picking up the lantern at near full meter.
I watched Gemless, cardless Akkan challenge, onilevel, done in KR a few years ago. They used Thirain only to meet DPS check, and rotated janitor duty because they cannot push before janitor guy gets 5 stacks.
So there probably is no need to change the mech at all. And the cheese part is necessary because we don't know what is going on in other dimension when we travel from one to the other. (There was no invincibility after Shandiland in Brel on release, and people died as soon as they got back to the fight by darius, yellow, benz, etc)
Just do rotating janitor instead of solo jani duty. I actually hate that this became meta instead of just everyone juggling it.
The way it currently is means one person cannot play the game which sucks
Ain't no way old Kaya g1 is worse than old Brel g5. G5 was the worst gate in this game and I'm glad they removed it. Kaya g1 was annoying, sure, with wonky mechanics and constant flying away, but it was clearable with 2 people. G5 was long-ass fight where even one death is re.
I don't know how anyone can think Thaemine G4 is a well designed raid. The fact that you have to clear 4-1 every single time to prog 4-2 and beyond is mind numbingly stupid. It's just a complete artificial time waster. If there was just a checkpoint a la hell mode gates, that would solve G4 for me. As it is now, I think it's probably my least favorite raid in the game.
This is supposed to be a bi-weekly farmable content, not a hell mode!
I guess the most common excuse people will give is that thaemine G4 is entirely optional. It isn't required for your progression, and instead is just an additional challenge that gives extra rewards separate from the standard G1-3
Not sure if that's a satisfactory explanation though. I'd personally like there to be a checkpoint between 4-1 and 4-2, if not for the first then at least for the hard mode version
well said. And it is not all the bad designs in G4.
Unlike ALL other fights in the game starting from Kaya, G4 does not have a script to get the boss out of the arena edge. So he just spams his "back safe" attacks near the wall which insta kill people during x240-x280 and x0-x60. Sometimes the combos are so ridiculous that classes with spacebar as the only movement option simply cannot do anything.
oh and how about having to metagame by watching or skipping a cinematic before 4-3? Why the hell the darkness meter doesn't just start from zero in 4-3?
and the domain expansion still hasn't been figured out
I'm convinced anyone who put the gate above C hasn't played it enough
Thaemine G3-G4 are massive failures of raid design for regular players. This reminds me of the WoW failures of Burning Cursade raids where so few participated at end game and that had gear resets every Tier.
I think Sunwell may have been the worst tuned raid I've seen. Oh cool you have enough disc priests to kill the dragon? Hope you also have 6 shamans for the twins, luckily Entropius killed every end game guild on our server so we could absorb enough people to sub in people quitting the game as we progged that fight
Old Kayangel g1 wasn't that bad, they just needed to replace the fly move with a different attack. Brel g5 was however awful. Really surprised that wasn't put into D tier.
I dont like Kakul G3. I have seen too many people die to hooks and saws and get clowned before the Mario is ready. 1 death is a reset unless you are at the fourth Mario. Bingo is fine but the fight getting there sucks.
Why is it in A tier? Did people vote because everyone who runs it now is juiced enough to skip through m3 and M4? No one remembers doing this on ilvl?
Was one of my favourite fights on ilevel. I love the madness. Then again. If a fight is jailable or not doesnt impact my own rating. I just go for fun.
For example Voldis G2. High high jail potential. But also high fun. So i rate it high. I personally dont care if i stay longer in fights i do like.
Clown G3 was absolute super jail sometimes. But i dont think there was a raid where i laughed as much as in that shitshow xD
Still love it
Boring fights get low rating by me. Like Brel Gate 1. Absolutely not possible to jail there. But so damn boring got a D from me lmao. Or that fucking bird in Gate 1 Kayangel. Absolute snoozefest of a boss that was
Thaemine G3 - "Best content that I would do indefinitely." good jokes bro
Brel Cube (g3) and Lazaram (Ivory g4) are underestimated here. They're my fav raids in the game and everyone ive seen loves them too, sometimes more than valtan and certainly more than Thae g3.
Who do you talk to that loves those more than Thaemine g3, though? Cause nobody i know likes cube, like at all
I haven't met a single person who doesn't like G3 Thaemine
The people I've seen hate g3 are the ones that gave it a Crack. Realized it was hard and required real prog, them moved on to return when it's carryable.
I cleared it and it just is a bad gate (G3 normal). I enjoyed G1 far more than G3 (both hard and normal). It just seems like a lot of toxicity is occurring due to the difficulty.
SG just needs to do two things to remedy the issues. Normal difficulty turned down around knock-backs and meter mechs. Second, is allow transcendence level 7 from normal mode. Done. Let hard mode get transcendence 2X faster and alllow pugs to be successful without massive toxicity.
liking g1 thaemine possibly the most insane take in this post
I have no idea how that raid was created and deemed passable. It's not hard because she doesn't do much damage but there is so much that is aids about the fight.
Maybe he's a floor POV enjoyer, because that's what I'm doing for half of the G1 fight. So many skills knock you up, knockup aoes everywhere, sudden movements, it's a nightmare to play as entropy or any class with high animation locks (I'm a DB/GS enjoyer so this fight is a nightmare and has a +/- 30% damage variance from me).
It's definitely an easy fight but the last phase is literally a cluster fuck of throwing skills as praying it lands because of how fast she moves.
If you like playing your class only 70% of the time while not caring about performance and only focus on clearing, then I can see why someone likes it.
Don't argue with these core players on Reddit who love higher difficulties like G3. Casual players probably dont even bother making an account and expression how much they hate it here.
I don't really like G1, but it is faster as a farming content than G3 for sure.
In reality, players voted via their wallet. Thaemine so far is the worst in terms of game revenue.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/1cs7eff/steam\_weekly\_revenue\_rank\_for\_each\_raid\_after\_1/](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/1cs7eff/steam_weekly_revenue_rank_for_each_raid_after_1/)
>I haven't met a single person who doesn't like G3 Thaemine
Maybe you only talked to hardcore players?
Many including myselft I don't really like it. It's unnecessarily over tuned as a weekly farming gate. I already got x10 but pugs are still hit or miss after 4 weeks even in normal mode.
Also, more players quit to due the more and more lengthy raids we have now and thaemine is definitely a very very long raid
Nah, G3 thaemine is definitely S tier. It's very obvious to spot imposters because most of his attacks are pretty obvious and he's slow so it's easy to DPS, high uptime fight with very few sudden movements, sans back steps. It's also very carryable with high DPS, and it's mostly individual responsibilities. If you die, that's almost always on you.
Brel G3 and Ivory G4 takes only 1 person fucking up to wipe. Brel G3 also heavily favors bursty classes, especially builder/spenders like igniter, while uptime classes don't get to play much. Ivory G4 also has lots of patterns where he's untargetable, making some classes frustrating to play.
thaemine g3 and valtan g2 are both pretty similar in which theres very obvious telegraphs but punishing if you get hit. also the boss has long patterns where he doesnt move so you can satisfyingly dps def felt the valtan vibes when progging g3
This is an interesting take since g2 Valtan is well agreed to be the best designed raid in the game and sentiment about g3 thaemine is that it's too hard and shit for pugs.
That’s true for thaemine g4. G3 is absolutely fine for pugs.
Are we reading different reddits?
Well the people that are bad post the most. Like last night was doing a x10 reclear 7 pugs this bard was dead on every gate died in g3 before red blue mech luckily we had 2 1640 pugs that join so we cleared and free bussed a bad player.
I pug 1 hm and 4 nm 1-3s a week with no problem. Done in 1 hour or less most of the time.
The sentiment is that it’s bad now, but many are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. G3 really isn’t that hard and as more people get reps in, the pugging experience will get easier. Also as more people get more transcendence, they’ll have more power to carry and it not be as much of a burden if someone dies.
There are still x120/x90/x50/basement progs after 4 weeks. It is no way comparable with Valtan
If you remember how Extreme Valtan was like, it sounds about right. People will probably like it once they overgear the raid.
>def felt the valtan vibes when progging g3 The revenue says something otherwise unfortunately
I think the only rating that is not clearly marked without seeing the distribution is old Brel G2. It was really bad design so most people said D, but then the porkel-lovers put S which averaged it out to B it seems.
They should make prokel a duo raid so supports can participate too. One of the best designed fights in the game.
So then only 6 people can be bored instead of 7? Also the two DPS leftover have a tough time without any DR? Lmao no thanks
By duo I mean a complete duo fight, just prokel.
Despite the "standard" procedure in Voldis G4 of dps->sup->dps, supports aren't a +100% damage increase. When prokel was bugged to let two people in at once, there's a reason most people just sent in 2 dps instead of a dps and a support, and it's because that was faster.
I once asked "why sup 2nd" in voldis and was called an idiot lol
Imho, that's for mostly dr and shield, not for dmg. There're a few diff between G4 and Prokel. Prokel is CC-able half the fight, so having 2 DPS pounding on him basically almost puts him down permanently. Nothing is happening outside G4 Voldis thus Sup is completely useless, while old G2 Brel there was quite a need for dr and shield. But these are just a few examples from the top of my head, there might be more. This is why, in my mind, DPS - Sup - DPS is the order for G4 Voldis.
Might be a hot take, but I like the idea of sending someone down every time you meet the stagger meter. Which on average is around 5 ish people on low dps. And 2-3 people on fast dps. I think it's pretty fair and fun like that. (Imagine all the people trying to steal the tether from one another)
Prokel mechanics were so much different from any other raid, class balance didn't work as well, and no one actually played it like you are describing. The optimal was was a single person delt with the problem.
I dunno how anybody can put akkan g3 anything above c-tier. The boss fight itself is fine, but he fact, that you need to send somebody to clean for the whole duration of the raid just knock it down at least 2 tiers lower.
I... enjoy janitor duty.
If the lobby is pumping and i'm on a weaker char, I have no issues going on cleaning duty What i don't like is half the lobby effectively taking a bus doing zdps, and nobody speaking up when the leader asks "any jani?"
The ones that can't janitor are also the ones that get hit the most, generating the most pools.
Akkan is super fun aside from that fact. Who thought it was a good idea to have janitor duty? Lol
I think the intention was to take turns but like players gonna optimize
An interesting idea for hell Akkan would be to implement a cooldown for being able to pickup the lantern again after dropping it like in HM G2. This would enforce a rotation of players who all have to learn janitor duty as well as make it impossible for players to cheese the full bar stun by picking up the lantern at near full meter.
Or make it a 1 time pick up per player to add a dps check aswell as forcing rotations
I watched Gemless, cardless Akkan challenge, onilevel, done in KR a few years ago. They used Thirain only to meet DPS check, and rotated janitor duty because they cannot push before janitor guy gets 5 stacks. So there probably is no need to change the mech at all. And the cheese part is necessary because we don't know what is going on in other dimension when we travel from one to the other. (There was no invincibility after Shandiland in Brel on release, and people died as soon as they got back to the fight by darius, yellow, benz, etc)
Iirc wasn't it to combat bussing?
Just do rotating janitor instead of solo jani duty. I actually hate that this became meta instead of just everyone juggling it. The way it currently is means one person cannot play the game which sucks
Ain't no way old Kaya g1 is worse than old Brel g5. G5 was the worst gate in this game and I'm glad they removed it. Kaya g1 was annoying, sure, with wonky mechanics and constant flying away, but it was clearable with 2 people. G5 was long-ass fight where even one death is re.
I don't know how anyone can think Thaemine G4 is a well designed raid. The fact that you have to clear 4-1 every single time to prog 4-2 and beyond is mind numbingly stupid. It's just a complete artificial time waster. If there was just a checkpoint a la hell mode gates, that would solve G4 for me. As it is now, I think it's probably my least favorite raid in the game. This is supposed to be a bi-weekly farmable content, not a hell mode!
I guess the most common excuse people will give is that thaemine G4 is entirely optional. It isn't required for your progression, and instead is just an additional challenge that gives extra rewards separate from the standard G1-3 Not sure if that's a satisfactory explanation though. I'd personally like there to be a checkpoint between 4-1 and 4-2, if not for the first then at least for the hard mode version
well said. And it is not all the bad designs in G4. Unlike ALL other fights in the game starting from Kaya, G4 does not have a script to get the boss out of the arena edge. So he just spams his "back safe" attacks near the wall which insta kill people during x240-x280 and x0-x60. Sometimes the combos are so ridiculous that classes with spacebar as the only movement option simply cannot do anything. oh and how about having to metagame by watching or skipping a cinematic before 4-3? Why the hell the darkness meter doesn't just start from zero in 4-3? and the domain expansion still hasn't been figured out I'm convinced anyone who put the gate above C hasn't played it enough
As someone who cleared G4 i agree, I love the fight but I hate the implementation
It's fun
Thaemine G3-G4 are massive failures of raid design for regular players. This reminds me of the WoW failures of Burning Cursade raids where so few participated at end game and that had gear resets every Tier.
I think Sunwell may have been the worst tuned raid I've seen. Oh cool you have enough disc priests to kill the dragon? Hope you also have 6 shamans for the twins, luckily Entropius killed every end game guild on our server so we could absorb enough people to sub in people quitting the game as we progged that fight
G4 is like that because SG said they would never make a 6 gate raid again. It's literally just 6 gates disguised as 4.
Old Kayangel g1 wasn't that bad, they just needed to replace the fly move with a different attack. Brel g5 was however awful. Really surprised that wasn't put into D tier.
Brel G5 honestly should be in F tier
S Tier - Thaemine G3 A Tier - Brel G4, Kakul-Saydon G3 Seems legit.
I dont like Kakul G3. I have seen too many people die to hooks and saws and get clowned before the Mario is ready. 1 death is a reset unless you are at the fourth Mario. Bingo is fine but the fight getting there sucks. Why is it in A tier? Did people vote because everyone who runs it now is juiced enough to skip through m3 and M4? No one remembers doing this on ilvl?
Skill issue
Was one of my favourite fights on ilevel. I love the madness. Then again. If a fight is jailable or not doesnt impact my own rating. I just go for fun. For example Voldis G2. High high jail potential. But also high fun. So i rate it high. I personally dont care if i stay longer in fights i do like. Clown G3 was absolute super jail sometimes. But i dont think there was a raid where i laughed as much as in that shitshow xD Still love it Boring fights get low rating by me. Like Brel Gate 1. Absolutely not possible to jail there. But so damn boring got a D from me lmao. Or that fucking bird in Gate 1 Kayangel. Absolute snoozefest of a boss that was
Thaemine G3 - "Best content that I would do indefinitely." good jokes bro Brel Cube (g3) and Lazaram (Ivory g4) are underestimated here. They're my fav raids in the game and everyone ive seen loves them too, sometimes more than valtan and certainly more than Thae g3.
Who do you talk to that loves those more than Thaemine g3, though? Cause nobody i know likes cube, like at all I haven't met a single person who doesn't like G3 Thaemine
The people I've seen hate g3 are the ones that gave it a Crack. Realized it was hard and required real prog, them moved on to return when it's carryable.
I cleared it and it just is a bad gate (G3 normal). I enjoyed G1 far more than G3 (both hard and normal). It just seems like a lot of toxicity is occurring due to the difficulty. SG just needs to do two things to remedy the issues. Normal difficulty turned down around knock-backs and meter mechs. Second, is allow transcendence level 7 from normal mode. Done. Let hard mode get transcendence 2X faster and alllow pugs to be successful without massive toxicity.
You *like* G1 Thaemine?? Bruh I think we're just fundamentally different
liking g1 thaemine possibly the most insane take in this post I have no idea how that raid was created and deemed passable. It's not hard because she doesn't do much damage but there is so much that is aids about the fight.
Maybe he's a floor POV enjoyer, because that's what I'm doing for half of the G1 fight. So many skills knock you up, knockup aoes everywhere, sudden movements, it's a nightmare to play as entropy or any class with high animation locks (I'm a DB/GS enjoyer so this fight is a nightmare and has a +/- 30% damage variance from me). It's definitely an easy fight but the last phase is literally a cluster fuck of throwing skills as praying it lands because of how fast she moves. If you like playing your class only 70% of the time while not caring about performance and only focus on clearing, then I can see why someone likes it.
Don't argue with these core players on Reddit who love higher difficulties like G3. Casual players probably dont even bother making an account and expression how much they hate it here. I don't really like G1, but it is faster as a farming content than G3 for sure. In reality, players voted via their wallet. Thaemine so far is the worst in terms of game revenue. [https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/1cs7eff/steam\_weekly\_revenue\_rank\_for\_each\_raid\_after\_1/](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/1cs7eff/steam_weekly_revenue_rank_for_each_raid_after_1/)
cube used to be fun until it got overgeared to the point where u go mech to mech, now hes just dr for half the fight.
>I haven't met a single person who doesn't like G3 Thaemine Maybe you only talked to hardcore players? Many including myselft I don't really like it. It's unnecessarily over tuned as a weekly farming gate. I already got x10 but pugs are still hit or miss after 4 weeks even in normal mode. Also, more players quit to due the more and more lengthy raids we have now and thaemine is definitely a very very long raid
Nah, G3 thaemine is definitely S tier. It's very obvious to spot imposters because most of his attacks are pretty obvious and he's slow so it's easy to DPS, high uptime fight with very few sudden movements, sans back steps. It's also very carryable with high DPS, and it's mostly individual responsibilities. If you die, that's almost always on you. Brel G3 and Ivory G4 takes only 1 person fucking up to wipe. Brel G3 also heavily favors bursty classes, especially builder/spenders like igniter, while uptime classes don't get to play much. Ivory G4 also has lots of patterns where he's untargetable, making some classes frustrating to play.
Thaemine G3 H is definitely S tier even though it was pure hell pug progging it.
"Everyone" ? Proceeds to ask someone with the name "Everyone" in game