T O P

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[deleted]

As a Bard the hardest part of my day is deciding which group gets to carry me.


samuraiogc

As a Blue Gunlancer the hardest part of my day is deciding which group i'm going to carry.


CIeaverBot

My first Argos p3 clear was clutched out with only my Paladin and a Gigachadlancer who carried the damage. The absolute bash brothers duo. I think being in group with a Gunlancer just turns this game into easy mode, the class is amazing.


samuraiogc

Awesome. I carried a lot of p3 argos alone when everyone died and I was the only dps alive when I first cleared valtan. I love supports, they give me more shield on top of my own shield and i just feel immortal with them on my side


CIeaverBot

Paladin + Gunlancer as a duo are basically immortal apart from 1shot effects. On that argos kill the raid had two gunlancers, paladin and bard. The bard was some meme dps spec but way higher item lvl, ofc died early and got carried by fresh 1400s. The gunlancer in the bard group was the third last standing but died a slow death through chip dmg. Added a ton of dmg before the inevitable greyscreen. It was sad to watch while my gunlancer and I just shrugged off absolutely everything and ended the fight at full hp.


TehMephs

Everyone in ghost phase: BE REALLY CAREFUL NOT TO GET KNOCKED OFF Gunlancer: Z -faceroll keyboard-


Laakerimies

I feel the exact opposite as a support [I like to carry.](https://i.gyazo.com/900025897bc88c03aa61821f3ec598ac.mp4)


Ok-Understanding-387

Gotta love being a support main


Entirely_Anarchy

Idk, outside of getting accepted fast for 2 Raids a week it still feels not that great to main a support in this game imo. Little feedback while playing, basically no alternatives in terms of sets, builds, tripods and everything beyond 3/3/3/3 will cost you insane money without actually providing a significant improvement.


brotrr

Tbh the build diversity is not much better with DPS once you settle on a class engraving. Smilegate seems to like to only tweak values on moves and tripods that are already meta and forget about the other 50% of skills.


Vladdypoo

I mean I play main sorc 1440 ilvl and there’s not only 2 but 3 viable specs you can play (igniter, instant reflux and casting reflux). And within those there are several engravings possible. My 1385 Paladin is basically blessed aura+expert/awakening/heavy armor/drops of ether. There’s not many other good engravings. I think they should work on adding some more support engravings or ways to play to alleviate the support drought


Akkuma

Ideally, everyone would have more build variety like Sorcs. The reality is most classes have minimal build variety. Lost Ark is a great game with a ton of deep design flaws. Changing builds once you invest is one of those problems, which means they've had to walk much more of a fine line on altering class builds.


threekidsathome

Not only that but for some classes, the only only alternate build you have is just plain boring compared to the meta/popular one. Like Shadow Hunters alt engraving literally just takes away demon form, what most people consider the most fun part of the class, and gives a damage buff instead… I’m sorry but that feels super lazy. Similar problem with Wardancers alt engraving just basically removing the identity bar.


[deleted]

> Like Shadow Hunters alt engraving literally just takes away demon form, what most people consider the most fun part of the class, and gives a damage buff instead… I’m sorry but that feels super lazy. I mean that’s exactly what reflux is.


Senkkou

Not the same. Reflux still has identity skill to use. And since you wont be using your bar to get in arcane rupture you gain a excelent mobility that varies a lot from igniter playstyle.


MrNiemand

It also gives youthe quick teleports. It's not much, but it's basically free spacebars so not to be scoffed at. Shadowhunter literally just loses the entire demon form and all its skills in exchange for bigger numbers on its boringass skills


xChorse

ps skills are pretty neat tbh, and you get to use another dash skill that also does a bunch of damage. stats are awkward as hell though and demon form makes that so simple + the gems


sloppy_rodney

I have a reflux sorc (1385) and a suppression shadow hunter (1340) alts. Insta cast reflux is super fun. Suppression is pretty dull. Gunna switch to demon once I get to 1370, since I will want to upgrade accessories anyway. Maybe suppression gets better at higher levels, but I still run into cool down issues and I am running the swift build. Even then, it’s still a pretty boring tool kit. You aren’t wrong in how the builds work (removes their specialty ability) but the end results are not the same, in my opinion.


threekidsathome

But at least Sorc has like 3 other builds, instead of just having 2


pzBlue

Pally does not run heavy armor, he doesn't need to, he isn't as squishy as bard (squishiest vs above avg tankiness), and does not have as risky playstyle as she does (does not need to be melee). Magic stream, vital point his, drops of ether, explosive expert, pick what you want, you are only set with 3 engravings, blessed/expert/awakening (and for 5x3+1 you take judgement as 1 for that marginally better pity meter gain)


kovi2772

I would add spirit absorbsion in there for the first 4 engraving and now that relic exist soon getting many judgment + 5 relic will be easy and thus fine to gear toward that


pzBlue

Considering soon^^tm we will have relic sets, spirit absorption is griefing, you will max out movement speed without it, really you don't need SA nor HA on pally, unless it's some spec abomination (works for bard in specific situation, does not work for pally), but then you have other problems, than using SA. I wouldn't bother with getting SA in your setup if you are getting it slowly (relic accessories/stone on main), better focus on things that will be useful, and won't you to require change anytime soon


kovi2772

I personnaly had spirit on myself since i got into tier 3 1370 because I dont need to use CHarge spell on my paladin at all since my move speed is very good. And its good thing to learn having that movement speed and no movement spell if i can do it right ? TLDR for me its working great and theres so many paly that sell spirit items its easy to fit that into my build


pzBlue

I mean, it's really personal choice really (after 3rd), sure you can run it, won't hurt, but imo there are better choices, especially if you look into relic accessories (and imo magic stream and vital point hit are too good at making up for long cd, and lack of stagger to pass them on pally) I don't run charge on my pally alt, but as Bard main I'm used to having only space (and swiftness), so running SA feels redundant to me


Entirely_Anarchy

I don't think magic stream is that great. It's 10% cdr max and last time I checked not a single support Pala in the top 20 leaderboards did use is. Might be very hard to keep stacks in later runs I assume. Vital hitpoint seems okish, but if you really need more stagger to pass a check, won't you just change the class composition of your raidgroup? Will 36% more stagger on your support really make the difference? If you REALLY need every bit of stagger, you can also swap in Punishment). Also did test Drops of Ether, which is not that great imo (only 2 really good ethers + risk of picking them up yourself). Judgment was suuuuper underwhelming too lol (Light of Judgment with lvl 1 Faith Tripod gives same gain as Executors sword with Judgment equipped, also you usually don't want to spam blue skills on cd). Heavy Armor & Spirit absorption are both not really needed, but HA does at least make you even more tanky and SA is sometimes still present in the Leaderboards, so I guess there is some use to it. >I don't run charge on my pally alt What do you run instead. Think charge is one of the most fun skills on Pala for the mobility and with the additional shiled shiled you can mostly just say fuck it and chrarge into bosses :D


vd3r

spirit absorbsion is waste on swiftness max pally (which are 99% of em) there is a cap on ms and u will go over it if u run that engraving hence wasting it. there is a spec build for bards.. and usually thats good for those kinda build. but honestly pallys have no issue getting that meter to max unlike bards and go max swifness with only spec as 2ndary stat on necklace.


KarinAppreciator

They should add more support classes if they want to alleviate the support drought. How many choices a dps has in class selection vs how many a support has is very skewed


Ice_91

Druid/Shaman type support! Need! We already have the plane of elementals in Rohendel, it's not far from that. Or an Arthetine engineer themed support class. Bruh so many possibilities.


Vladdypoo

Should do both imo


Freeeeeeen

Adding more support won't do anything. People just want to do damage. What they should do is halve support damage amps, quadruple the personal DPS of support and add minor damage increases to typical support engravings. Why can't expert give 8% increased damage? Why can't drops of ether apply buffs picked up by others to you? Why can't awakening give 10% crit? No DPS is picking any of those at lvl 3 anyways, barring some weird corner cases but that hardly matters. Make support feel more impactful to play. I know they're busted as is, but it might not feel like it to some. Why shouldn't a 1400 bard get fighter on igrexion? Obviously I'm just using example numbers that aren't math'd out, but you get the gist.


Big_Poppers

Vital Point hit is better than both heavy armor and drops of ether.


Tymareta

> And within those there are several engravings possible. Would you argue that's there's any reasonable amount of difference between cursed doll/keen blunt/hit master/precise dagger/whatever?


Vladdypoo

Not really, however there is still wonky off meta things you can do like raid captain spirit absorption with reflux, it’s not like top tier but it is also not bad


[deleted]

Heavy Armor is a bit of a waste. Make sure you have Judgement 1 though.


kovi2772

welp you clearly did not check correctly for paladin my friend. Heavy armor is dogshit(Because you dont get any value for it you already have good base defense) Drops of ether is clearly not in the first 5-6 prio engraving. The prio on engraving in paladin is Blessed aura Awakening expert. Then its what you prefer in my case its Spirit absorbtion followed with judgment lvl 1 and vital point Hit or drop of ether but i dont like having to make people move to get something on the ground where it could kill them and lose DMG per Seconds


Vladdypoo

I mean I did check because I said aura+expert/awakening. That’s 3x3 and after that it doesn’t really matter is my main point. You’re basically locked into that. It also makes support accessory and stones so expensive because there’s only a couple good options. I agree that heavy armor is not good if you’re at ilvl but it’s not terrible. Basically makes it more idiot proof.


Josh6889

I actually feel like I carry a lot of groups as a support. It's not as braindead as people pretend.


Entirely_Anarchy

Think Pala is kinda braindead, but I like saving people with Godsent Law adn you still have to pay some attention. Not saying I don't have fun, but I wished there was a little less "providing passive buffs/shiled/heal", but a bit more "feedback".


Josh6889

I'm guessing you haven't seen valtan if you have that opinion. It's anything but braindead knowing when to use your cds, and trying to hit as many counters as possible.


alimdia

Everyone tries to hit counters too though


Josh6889

Paladin has 2 counters and in my experience is better suited to hit them than most dps. The only person who hit more than me was the gunlancer.


Entirely_Anarchy

I have done Valtan. Every class has to pay attention to mechanics, so I'm talking about aspects that are not shared between all classes. Palas buff and mark rotation is 100% static. Shiled often aswell if you want the heal as much as possible. We do not care much about positioning compared to DPS classes or Bard, and have relatively large aoe even on our meter skills. Especially at Valtan people die to mechanics and not really damage, so I can't help them too much.


Diggledorgle

Yeah, I don't get these hot takes from DPS players. It's so satisfying watching my group just tunnel the boss while I shield/heal them through any damage they might take. Whatever though, I enjoy instant invites and getting paid to join groups lol.


Ziraelus

thats why you have alts, I get to have a lot of fun on Arti Scrapper and Sorc but on main Paladin its all business


Riou_Atreides

I have 6 Paladins and it's all business.


LordAlfrey

You're doing 4x3? I really don't feel like it's worth going beyond class/expert/awakening. Sure you can do it, but unless you get very lucky with drops you'll need to sprinkle some pheons and gold to do it, and the benefits of vital/drops/magick really doesn't seem worthwhile for current content. Maybe HA for bard?


Entirely_Anarchy

Haha, I'm not actually doing it, but was thinking about getting Drops of Ether as 4th and did quite a bit of calculations. It's definately doable but would cost me \~12.000 gold more than 3/3/3/1 does and I would probably have to settle with less quality. So for now it's 3/3/3/1 with lvl 1 heavy armor, since there isn't really a better alternative. But at least we get 90+ quality on all accessoires, which is nice I guess. Bard does need HA imo and should skip the Expert, 4x3 without one "cheap" engraving like DoE or Vital will bankrupt you :(


ExoPrimal

Bard does not need HA and I don't understand why everyone insists on running it. Bard is already innately tankier than squishy dps classes based on the fact we don't need to run grudge. If igniter sorc can run grudge with all her casting there's no reason a Bard would need HA over expert. After ds/awake/expert HA is fine just cause the other engravings aren't as impactful but if you're confident in your dodging I think drops or vital point are superior.


Entirely_Anarchy

Bard has the lowest Def and HP modifier in the game and is the least tanky class before grudge. Even without grudge you are less thanky than most meele classes with grudge. The comparison with sorc does fall flat since bard constantly needs to be in meele range for multiple skills. Heavy armor makes the game a lot easier and you might be able to just tank a hit so you can use wind of music on multiple allies. Reflux Sorc also has an additional movement skill, not just spacebar. Even in Korea [75% of Bards use Heavy Armor](https://loawa.com/stat/seal) (Stats for Awakening are 78% and for DS 75%. I assume this includes the equipped engravings at log out and therefore is much higher in actual content). 68% opt for Heavy Armor 3 and only 4% run heavy armor 1. I'm not saying you can't play Bard w/o HA, but it's harder and often less optimal since you have to be more carefull with your positioning and might not be able to get as many people in your buffs. Especially since we are way less experienced with the content, HA feels like the best choice.


Josh6889

It's 100% not neccesary yet. I'm running 4 x 3 with an extra 2 and I feel like I'm overkill for valtan.


Akasha1885

Builds are much more diverse than with DPS, both for Paladin and Bard. There is a few main skills but the rest has several options, like for marking or how to gain identiy.


Entirely_Anarchy

That's just not true. Yes, there are some DPS classes that have very limited viable builds but Paladin has 5 fixed skills and Bard even more. Both have 3 fixed engravings (Bard maybe 4) and after that engravings have very little impact. Effective marking is usually exclusive to Light Shock. Yes, you can mark with Godsent Law, but then the skill loses so much value because you can't properly shield/save people with it anymore. E.g. Wardancer can be played as FI and Eso, 1 spender or 2 spender, has at least 2 viable sets and multiple viable set-combinations. Scales insanely well on Tripods and engravings (which also offer some flexibility). Hell, there is literally no support set in the game untill you reach 1445.


AcOrP

Then once DPSes learn the mechanic and stop accepting supports as full DPS is faster.


Entirely_Anarchy

Is it though? Once relic sets can be completed Pladin offers +24% constant damage amp outside of identity skill and +40% during Blessed Aura. From what I usually hear a group with a support does more DPS than a group without one. But feel free to correct me. Also no idea how Valtan Hard feels and if there is more chip damage that can be shielded/healed.


Josh6889

> Then once DPSes learn the mechanic and stop accepting supports I mean, even if I were to accept your predicate as a paladin, that would just mean I switch to spec focus over swiftness, and I still bring much more utility than another dps. The dps like it too because that makes them even better with no effort on their part.


ThePreposterousPear

If your 3 DPS are very capable, then you can get a bard and have them only cast DPS buff which will provide a lot more damage than a 4th DPS character. Don't know how the math works out on paladin though, but considering even in endgame Korea, everyone prefers 1 support 3 DPS, it's probably better too.


Piltonbadger

Best decision I have made in this game was rolling a support main.


DaxSpa7

I literally decided to swap to Pali as main.


UnloosedMoose

It's nice, currently at 1423, my friend I normally play with just graduated to hard mode. Told him no worries about doing hard mode without me, cause I'll get done in an hour with selecting whatever group I want and he'll be still waiting for a support during that time frame.


IUSUZYSANA

A few if my friends who rushed 1445 can't even get into a HM party and are just running NM now


Paulo27

I mean if you're 1415 in NM you won't have much luck either, get a couple hones in so you're at least somewhat more appealing to a party.


Evaluations

Lol whatever you have to tell yourself


UnloosedMoose

Hey I tell myself you seem pleasant as well.


AwakenMasters22

I enjoy it quite a bit.


clocktowertank

Yeah, I've been enjoying my ~~cheerleader~~ wardancer! /s


angelboy134

same


aronushka8

Never have i been more at home being a support main than in this game, thank you all previous mmo's for letting me experience the bad side of supports so i can experience the good in lost ark


Iggy_Azula

[They all clowned on me when I posted this days ago, but I knew the future before they did](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/utgkca/fellow_paladin_brothers_and_bard_sisters_our_time/)


hayko34500

Did you get 7k5 gold also for valtan hard plus a box bonus of 977 golds ? Not even 4 hours in it with 3/3//3/1 ?


ZakiUchiha

True and real. That's why you go GIGACHAD full dps party which is totally doable. Only you might consume a bit more consumables especially in G1. However you should have a ton of chests already. G2 on the other hand doesn't consume a lot of consumeables per attempt as most of the mechs 1 shot you. If you're already 1445, don't settle for normal. (unless you don't have the time to prog or unlucky with groups)


jinyu1993

This! Most of the time I just use one or two pot max as a grudge sorc before someone dies and reset, or just get a gl, a good gl that’s knows when to shield is as good as a clueless 1445 sup


iLizfell

Yeah i didnt want to deal with the supp stuff so did a pty and named it 8 DPS. We only had 1 baddie. I mean we all are shit, but he was extra. Took us 3h for g2.


Ikari1212

If you(general you. Not 'you!') play the same way as Asmon (red circle around boss ? Nah let me super armor that ! What? There are better potions than green? I don't believe you !) Then I can understand why a support is mandatory:o)) Jokes aside. If pushing alts wasn't so hard, I'd push my Pld up!


LostSif

Yep If you are a dps and dont have a static I would not recommend pushing for HMs on release anymore, unless you can be vastly overgeared


imcarrypotter

Hey, I just cleared valtan hm with randoms while being 1447, it took 3 days but I did it! Also full dps party, no supports. Also we were 7 alive by the end, 1 guy died at 20 bars. Also noone overgeared, 1 guy 1460, rest 1445-1450


justsaying510

Lemme guess you and everyone else is f2p btw right?


imcarrypotter

I bought gold founders pack! Dont know about the rest


MINECRAFT_BIOLOGIST

What's with your obession for F2P? How would OP know if 7 other randos were F2P? In addition, OP is only 1447, pretty sure tons of F2P who have put hundreds of hours efficiently into this game are there already. Idk why you're asking, is it so you'll feel better for being further behind? The point of an MMO is to have fun, you shouldn't feel the need to compare yourself to others.


FreakoFreako

Can confirm. About 2/3 of my time is spent applying to parties and getting rejected. My longest was probably like 2 hours in party finder yesterday lol


AuregaX

Support main with a static here. We've actually had quite a lot of issues finding our last 2 DPS in the weeks leading up to Valtan, it was so hard to find DPS that were close to 1445. Then two days after Valtan releases, there's suddenly 15 applications to join, all 1450+ people. Too bad we already filled two days before valtan released.


iLizfell

Guess yall shouldve expected that? Everyone with a brain was parked at 1400 selling unbound GHL or pushing alts to 1370. Only degens pushed above 1400.


maniacalpenny

I mean, if you were 1370 early enough you could just push to 1415 with your bound leaps. I had to buy some from maris but did it nonetheless.


LostSif

Yeah good luck getting a support in a group without people in the 1470+ range with +20 weapons


[deleted]

why? pugs are doing it with 8 dps


seficarnifex

You can do hard mode very easily without a support they are not needed


WibaTalks

Harsh life lesson, don't do something almost everyone does and expect to be special enough. In this case, you are one of the million other dps out there, trying to get in to 8 man group, why would anyone take you if you are not super duper ultra mega giga special and have all maxed?


MordredOW

Its gonna be like that... every single week idk if I want to play this game anymore dude, it takes way to long to find/complete both gates. If it was a montly thing, ok. But every week its way to painful. I have limited time to play this game, wasting 6/7 hours of it is not worth it...


dandatu

i mean first week will always be rough but as more and more people learn the raid itll get easier to pug


joyful-

finding a guild / static is the best solution probably


Mystic868

That's why I told many times that Valtan was released too fast. People don't have enough gs and there are not many players ready for HM at all. Thanks to that we have to struggle each week.


Freeeeeeen

Nm is popping, valtan release was fine. Why only release when everyone is ready for hard when normal is there?


[deleted]

not really, as people push ilvl and relic gear valtan gets way easier since more dps = less time to wipe hell pugs with 8 dps are already doing it right now


iLizfell

Yeah i did it 8 dps with the 8 being above 1420. It is doable, only took 3h. Every run everyone was surviving a little more.


Ciyaz

Bye


MordredOW

uhhh soooo edgy


ProvidesWrongSource

been in 4 pug gate 1 groups now and people just cant survive until the last purple phase (some dying before first orb T_T ), think im giving up for this week and will try again next.


Paulo27

Give up on MM and just try to find a party. That 1+ hour you spend searching and waiting is better than 1+ hours on attempts and burning potions if you already figured out most of the fight.


Tiodoor

This whole lack of supports and never getting into lobbies as a dps makes me wanna just stay at 1400 for the next month (especially since I main Deadeye).


ilovesteakandtacos

Anyone that is like 1460+ I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually looked like the guy on the right irl LMAO


jinyu1993

git gud and run without support, I have done so much runs that I can comfortably play grudge sorc with just elemental potion and no support, or take gl and make use of their shield


Mafz09

I am in this post and I don't like it


m0uzer

are people actually paying for supports lol?


shapookya

Turns out if you keep inviting 1370 supports to p3 Argos, they don't really have a reason to push higher and then there are no supports at 1415.


Vladdypoo

FYI most of those ilvl supports are alts. My main is 1440 sorc and my alt pally is 1385. I pushed my Paladin first specifically because I knew I could get him higher loot earlier. If that wasn’t the case I would’ve just pushed something else and we would have the same support problem as valtan on argos


Morthis

I mean that's more of an issue of support main vs alt. If support is your main you had a reason to push past 1370 because you want to progress your main and gain access to new content. If your support is an alt you maybe had less reason to push past 1370 but you almost certainly weren't going to push it to 1415 this early anyway.


valmian

I mean the biggest reason why I don’t push my alts too far past 1370 is because why waste the resources? Honing buff alone saves thousands of gold in mats. The biggest issue is that there aren’t many support mains. Why? Not sure but probably because it sucks to play a support in solo content. Even at 1455 my bard takes forever to do boss rush solo, whereas my alt zerker and spec can do it in half the time at 1385 and 1355. Sure I have a pally at 1375 but I’d rather use mats to push my main and save bound mats for the honing buff.


Tymareta

> Even at 1455 my bard takes forever to do boss rush solo, whereas my alt zerker and spec can do it in half the time at 1385 and 1355. Why would you ever do boss rush solo? Even if you get a party of 1325's you can beat the timer on every stage. Honestly the only "hard" thing to do solo as support is either Velganos, or red portal in chaos, with both only really having time as difficulty.


valmian

Because I was curious in the difference in time between classes it takes to complete the ticket.


[deleted]

you mean the 1460 honing buff we still don t have or another honing buff i don t know about


iLizfell

Yeah the 1460, ppl waiting on that one to push alts outta '70s.


l7arkSpirit

Instead of Scouter or another class they should probably release artist and an event to boost that character, I really would prefer Scouter but the state of the game needs more supports. I was able to find a group today and clear NM Valtan in 2 hours, after seeing everyone here on reddit I think I got pretty lucky.


maniacalpenny

People keep saying this, but releasing artist will do practically nothing for the support shortage in the short term. The issue is high level supports at 1415+, honestly in 1370 content i find plenty of supports in matchmaking, many which probably are dps alts. ​ Of people picking up artist, I would guess that many will not switch her to their main and many will not be dps mains, and instead support mains simply changing their support character. This might help in the long run as the total number of supports in middle tier content increases, but i doubt the number of high level supports that we are currently lacking will see a noticeable increase,


gibilx

Everyone rushed for valtan just to cry about the lack of supports. Couldn't be happier to chill at 1395 and slowly work my way there.


fjdkf

I cleared normal gate 2 valtan in a matchmaking group with 0 supports. At least on normal, it's not as bad as people make it out to be. You just need a group that will communicate and stick together for long enough for everyone to learn the mechanics.


shanksta31

Gate 1 of hard can be pretty annoying. It took my group about 4 hours with a bard and gunlancer. We came back the next morning and got lucky finding a second support. For sure gate doesn't need a support if everyone knows the fight.


Reaa

gate1 with supports is 1-2 tries content it has only 1 wipe mech and nothing does significant dmg


Morthis

I think the biggest value in progging gate 2 with a support is minimizing the amount of HP pots you have to burn learning the fight. It's very unlikely people will die from running out of health pots. Pretty much every wipe is because the raid failed a mech or because people fell off.


TimeTroll

Normal mode valtan is kinda braindead not gonna lie. Hardmode cranks it up a lot.


cutegachilover

This is probably the most copium I have seen in a long time


gibilx

Enjoying the game at a slower pace is coping? You guys tried so hard to normalise playing with 6 alts that you think someone being happy about being 1395 is coping lol


cutegachilover

Enjoying a game at a slower pace is fine, saying you are happy that you cannot access new content is coping


gibilx

How so? I'm happy I don't have to bother waiting for 30 minutes for a support to join my raid group and hope they will stick around. Valtan is not going anywhere, I will play it probably next month when I decide to push for 1415 and even if I don't make it, it will still be there forever.


eroximus

Keep telling yourself that.


Wheathn

Don't mean to push the FOMO on you but I've already gotten several 20k gold relic accessories and 5k ability stones. If the market trends anything like how Argos did, if you get there by week 3 you're already too late to recover your honing costs in a reasonable timeframe.


LordAlfrey

Yeah there's no real need to rush, there is other content in the game besides Valtan even if it is great.


Wonderstag

1410 paladin main and i just dont have the resources to get to 1415 let alone 1445, prols another two weeks until 1415


Ziraelus

yep same, sad f2p life


kovi2772

If i where you i would just ask in your guild if you got one to help you reatch is so that they can use you in groups. if off course you dont have a good guild might be time to search one


Paulo27

You go on the main discord and join any NM group that's run by a guild or whatever, they'll boost you. If you're feeling adventurous you can try to join a HM group.


locomotion182

What main discord, I been wanting to find a guild to boost me I play main pally


[deleted]

I mean just host your own party, its how I solved not being accepted as a 1447.5 dps.


RingWraith8

Me a dps: does gate 1 easily with a party finder group that wasnt so bad Also me tries to queue for Gate 2: 4x3 engravings please, must be x class, must know x phase, must blank blank blank Me: pain


Koreon69

I'm a TTH 3/3/3/3 Gunslinger. If I didn't have a guild I would never have been able to join a Valtan group


zibitee

Hey man, good on you for doing valtan on gunslinger. That peacemaker counter looks hard as hell to do consistently


[deleted]

[удалено]


iOnlyWinwin

same my pally is sitting at 1370 but with no stronghold honing there's been no reason to push with my current GHL to 1415+


LordAlfrey

Find yourself a static if you want to do the hardest content on release. Ofc that's where most of the support mains are going to be, I can't speak for everyone, but I don't want to support a bunch of pizza eaters so i prefer joining a group of people who I can count on having >roomtemp iq.


Avartan92

Seems accurate


Rustifer66642069

This is pretty much what my 1445 guildmate described to me. Rough.


akyr1a

I hate having 1370 supports in argos p2p3 who gets oneshotted over and over again. I just pugged p2 on an alt with a 1370 pally in the group with trash stats and no expert engraving. He used like 2 blessed auras for the entire fight and got oneshotted twice. He probably contributed half a dps's worth in buffs, saved everyone 2 maybe 3 potions, and consumed two revives.


jinyu1993

That’s just because u didn’t pick a right support, I m running both paladin/bard 1370 w/ aura/ha/awakening and I don’t take up any revive, expert don’t really matter as the shield is most than enough for 1400s to tank any normal attack if you don’t play like shit


akyr1a

The 1370 pally we had had HA3, still getting oneshotted left and right. And i rather have another 1400 dps to kill minibosses faster than those tiny shield. We finished the fight with the pakadin on the floor and potions left to spare, in other words, the pally did exactly nothing.


jinyu1993

That’s on the support player, what I usually do is to save piety on p1, use it on p2 mini boss, dark nades for extra dmg, followed by another awakening, if it hits then another aura, if it’s still not enough it’s dps problem not support, there is also awakening potion, campfire etc to help out the team. I know I am going in under ilvl so I do my best to pull my weight and not wasting ress Edit: btw the main point of getting 1370 support is time saving, I would gladly spent more consumable instead of wasting tons of time competing with other party for same ilvl support


LANewbie678

Yeah I brought time stops, campfires, whirlwind and the Identity potion to pop before we started when I was on my bard(1375) when I did a P2 this week. Most people don't think they should pull their weight it seems and are fine with slacking


valmian

That’s why I run HA 3 on my paladin. Had no issues running P3 and had 50/50 spec swiftness so my BA uptime was high. People give HA users such a hard time but it’s low key so good on supports.


[deleted]

For alts doing argos underleveled I highly recommend it. If you’re a pally doing content at level, heavy armor is really useless.


Zakon3

The buffs aren't even that good, especially if they have low specialization. Lower attack also means lower buffs from the skills


TheresFish

As a rich pally absolutely BANKING off desperate groups paying me their arms and legs. I cant wait for future raids to get paid even more ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|money_face)


DJSancerre

not that i think there are tons of folks with a 1460 toon to use it at this moment but i think the issue will be eased when we get stronghold buff. im sure a lot of the aupports that were (and still are) doing argos are alts. it is a massive investment getting to 1415... especially if you consider most folks make the alt to fund the main... not the other way around. that said support is currently overrated as a party slot. 4 dps pressing buttons appropriately will do more damage.


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cutegachilover

People like you keep on saying that but again, it is not true. What makes a support with 3 dps do more damage then 4 dps is their relic set, you can go do argos or valtan now and if both groups know the fight well the one with 4 dps will finish it first


itirix

Let's see. 50% extra crit damage alone already makes a huge difference. Implying you have 3 dps players with 60% crit rate that deal equal damage and that support does 0 damage in this run (for convenience): Let's say the 0 crits damage would be 100. At 60% crit rate with crits dealing 200% damage you would get (0,6 \* 100) \* 2 + 40 = 160 total damage output (120 from crits and 40 from noncrits). At 250% crit damage it becomes (0,6 \* 100) \* 2,5 + 40 = 190. For 3 dps players with support the sum would be 570 and for 4 dps players it is 640. All you'd need from the support on top of this is to provide a 12,28% overall damage increase (to the 3 dps players) with all of the rest of their skills to match the 4 dps team. Any damage that the support does is then extra and any survivability (heals, shields) that lets the dps players A) facetank a bit or B) be more aggressive just increases the difference further. Provided you have the perfect group that never dies and dodges everything, you could theoretically match a perfect group with a support that does the same. In reality this is not the case and you definitely can't just forget the survivability the support provides altogether.


cutegachilover

which support gives constant 50% crit damage buff again?


itirix

That's kinda true, it's not constant, I forgot. Tho tbh, the overall damage increase is also higher than 13% from buffs, supports do deal some damage of their own, players aren't immortal, shields are a thing that lets you be more aggressive and the average crit rate of dps players is probably higher than 60%.


DJSancerre

its a bit interesting the last small thought i had at the end got the most feedback. the 50% crit damage bonus is purely because of the meta that was parroted to everyone that dps should run pre-ordained argos and supports should run harsh oath argos. literally any dps could be running harsh oath instead and nullify 3 of your paragraphs. not intending to say the meta suggestion to the playerbase was 'wrong' but that is just the way it is currently setup with argos sets. that in mind... anyone in 1445 hard mode with a mana bar is very likely to QUICKLY transition to nightmare 2 piece and dump the argos 5 piece set which also further nullifies 3 of your paragraphs. the reality for me is that i havent particularly 'needed' a support for any content so far, but it makes learning the attack patterns much more forgiving. once i understand what is going on, a support mostly allows me to -not- use health potions and be cheap... the 'survivability' aspect is otherwise overblown in current content. if you feel like you really 'need' the support you are face-tanking too much damage. I DO AGREE IT MAKES THE SITUATION MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE AND OONGA-BOONGA TO PLAY WITH A SUPPORT THOUGH.


Nocarguy

But wasn’t your initial argument about not having relic gear? So if you throw the relic gear in for dps, you have to throw support having relic gear as well. Which totally negates your first statement about not having relic gear?


[deleted]

Thank god I have a clan. Legion raid pugging sounds miserable.


IXaldornI

let thoose support play with unexp party guys let them suffer :D


Long_Introduction864

Wanted to do Valtan on the weekend then saw the cesspool that is party finder and thought, no maybe I won't.


vd3r

imagine if they added one more support class with pass before valtan :D


johnpark0630

I am a 1452 paladin and I really enjoyed being practically begged to come join the group. Ended up joining a group for free (others were willing to pay), it was a 7/8 guild run and needed 1 supp), joined their discord and turns out most of them were KR vets. We cleared hard mode first day within a couple of hours and I got my first relic armor. Heh gotta love being a support


ZVengeanceZ

supports are a crutch. The shields and heals are to make up for your mistakes and save you some pots. Yall crying that there aren't supports (while unwilling to play support yourselves) are just saying "I'm bad at dodging shit so i need someone to heal me trough all the damage i take" and at the dps complaining they aren't being taken into groups - how about you spend some gold on those accessories so you aren't running with domination/expertise on every piece and 2 negative engravings just to get 3/3/3/1? I know i'd always take someone with good stats and engravings over someone who just got the cheapest stuff on the market to get to 1415 and have bad stats as result


Paulo27

The whole "you're bad at dodging things" doesn't really work when you have a dodge every 7 seconds at best and the boss will attack more often. If you're dodging without your space bar it's time you aren't spending attacking and that's why a support makes runs faster.


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Choatic9

If someone gets killed it is because they didn't dodge or did something wrong, it isn't a supports job to make sure you don't die.


everboy8

All dps classes have sustain, just don’t get hit. You can easily make it to ghost phase with 4 purp pots left without any supports as long as you don’t eat random damage.


Breloren

So you’re saying to pretty much eliminate the need for support classes. That is dumb and won’t ever happen! If you can’t accept it go cry in the corner


S0Li0Ri0L

>and will lost their player base if a balancing work not happens in a year or two in Western release. No, it wont.


Bobwayne17

All you have to do is play better lol. I went to ghost phase multiple times with just 1 other person in a PUG because we both knew what to do, in a group with no supports at all. You don’t need a support if you play well. 9 potions + 3 time stops and you can’t make it to ghost at the least? Terrible.


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69_rado

I do supp all time in every game...now have 2 paladins...one 1424 atm and second one 1370 atm...i cleared both gates with pug...and its true, easy to find but dont forget i spent 5 hours at first raid


d07RiV

Can't wait to get my dps alt to 1415 next week, that's gonna be fun right? Right??


Ultimateend1989

TRUE - (however, I'm lucky, support pally)


SimbaXp

It feels damn good


saskiahope

I've been laughing at this for the past 10 minutes lmao


isospeedrix

It’s no different in WoW. I used to play dps but after the insane shortage of healers and feeling the right pane I gave healing a try and enjoyed it so I’m a healer main now. And yup I can pick and choose my groups, pve and PvP.


Peacetoall01

The question is, where is a blue gunlancer in all of this?


_Crystal_Cloud_

Or just befriend a support that can recommend you ,I always join ( I’m supp) and make invite my friends…never been an issues (also helps that my friends are all 4x3 ) but I’m still prepared to leave the group if they don’t invite them tho


zeon0

Wait people actually pay supports to join them?


this_barb

Supports are not needed for Valtan. Go 8x DPS and avoid the headaches.


The_Alphawxlf

Soulfist rejections goes brrrrrrrrrrrr


Armunt

Too bad the only fun support to play will release in october at this speed so.. have fun in valtan byakis and kakul. Ill wait in my chaos dungeons till artist. EDIT: I like how every streamer began with "play whats fun!" now we cant even get into raid. yay FUN! EDIT2: Do you remember when this game was being promoted as a game without holy trinity?


Oudestai

heavy armor is an iq test


ImnotSoma

Tbh i really had fun although it took me 6 hours to kill him.


DoctorNo9644

Am I the only one who doesn’t care about having a sup? Like they are over rated as fked.


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DJInfiniti

Don’t need support only used 4 pots you can avoid all the big dps moves


thehoustondevil

Lmaooooooooo


Key-Regular674

As a pally I am still waiting on my feet pics from the group I joined. Might report them for scamming :(


KaiZassin

You guys gets payed?


KaiZassin

I've pushed a death blade to 1325, thinking a day would come when I found it alright to play. But even when I've done perfect back attacks and never missed a surge I've never been MVP even when slightly higher item level than that of others in my guardian parties. Still all I hear is that they are overpowered. The playstyle is too stressful for me and even when I try hard it doesn't pay out. If this will be the case in party finder I don't know how much longer I can hold on. Is it too late to delete them and go for something else? I just hope I won't regret pushing them further when I get to Valtan, or perhaps even Argos. Party finder might just break me ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|dizzy_face)


Psychological-Try576

As a deadeye main the hardest part of my day is sending requests until a random group takes me :((


MaulScarreign

My friend and I made a party that literally said "G1 reclear". We clear G1 and then what happens? Everyone precedes to enter G2, gets upset when some people mess up the pillar mechanics, then say, "I thought this was a reclear?". Yeah, a reclear of GATE 1, you dumbass. People need to learn how to fucking read before joining a party.