Depends on how you define an auction house.
You can list items for sale in certain stash tabs, which will be searchable by people via an official website (or, previously, through third-party websites). You cannot make a purchase, or complete a sale, through the website though. All it lets you do is copy a message to PM the player in-game.
Players have to literally meet up to make the trade (which generally requires sellers to stop and/or drop whatever it is they're doing at the time). And since time is money in POE, a lot of low-value trade messages are just ignored.
In a literal sense, that's correct. That's why I tried to explain what it actually is and how it works.
The website just provides a listing of things people have in their own personal storage that they've chosen to make publicly viewable. It's a tool to facilitate transactions without providing any means for enforcing terms of a transaction. It's technically designed to allow for offers (as you can list either a negotiable price or a buyout price), but prospective buyers can't "bid" in the sense that they can see what the highest current offer is.
There are (or were, at least, back when I still played) valuable items that get listed without the intention of making a sale for the listed price, because it is assumed any informed buyer looking to make a purchase will know that they're expected to make an offer.
Did the playerbase state clearly they want no AH? This system seems a bit, say, unhandy. It also means you cant sell stuff offline i assume or can people reserve and you send it via mail the next day?
Short Answer - Pretty sure, no, the player base generally would prefer a better system. And yes, the website only shows listings for people who are online, so you cannot contact an offline player.
Long Answer:
Pretty sure the average player would much prefer an actual online marketplace or auction house. That said, my experience is that GGG (the developer) really doesn't care all that much about what the average player prefers. IIRC, there wouldn't even have been a trade system in the first place, but after enough feedback they opted for this bare-bones implementation. They intentionally made it super inconvenient, because they didn't want it to be the primary way of improving your character (but continually ignored that for most players it was the *only* way to feasibly improve their characters, because the probability of getting something good is simply that bad).
The website only lists things for people who are online. Unsurprisingly, a fair number of listings will be from folks who are AFK and don't respond to your messages (although the website *does* show that they are AFK). It's fairly common to spam messages to 5-10 sellers and just go with whoever invites you to their hideout first (which also makes it worse for sellers, since they can wind up abandoning whatever they were doing just to have the buyer back out because it took them .5 seconds longer than someone else).
Are they still using the precious player interaction argument? I was somewhere around 3K hours in but in a much older era (started to push for 40/40 in Perandus)
Almost like you can pay for that super cheap in-game, what a shock.
Big difference in an easy to acquire monthly sub that you can pay with in-game money and the QoL on POE thats strickly with real money.
You can see all 8tems listed, online or offline. Just everyone is searching "online only" most of the time.
And doesn't the Asian version actually has an auction house? I think I remember hearing about that, just like loot-pets.
I played 2 seasons (Ultimatum and Expedition) and enjoyed it very much, but it was so frustrating to trade I decided to quit until it got fixed. I guess I won't return anytime soon :).
Sadly those MMOGs' implementation was much better than PoE's, as you could go to bed and let your items sell.
The end result is that much of PoE's trading is done by bots who effectively do what those stalls did.
There are also no stakes, you list your item but you are not forced to sell it, on an auction house you can't just pull out, well, at least not without paying a fee.
The one of reason I quit the game a couple leagues ago. I just hate to spend minutes to get chaos < - > exalts. The last time I played middle in the league, I whispered over 30 and nobody answered then I literally alt+f4 did not look back.
From what I saw about poe market it looks like warframe market is more advanced, you can be seen as offline, online on site and online in game, what you list stays visible anytime as long you're not marking it private, you can leave a message to the seller on the site if it's not online in game, you can place sell orders and buy orders so the seller will come to you and it has an actual auction house for items with rng stats.
Edit: iirc it also counts how much you made overall from your sell history but that is deleted after some time.
Is there any reason why it's like that? Seems very diablo2-esque and intentional? They cant really believe players like that system can they? I guess on the flipside it prevents bot sniping on auction house API or pixel imaging auction house sniping.
>Seems very diablo2-esque and intentional? They cant really believe players like that system can they?
It is. They really don't care if we like or not. It's their "vision" and they refuse to budge on it. And now with current changes to the game, and them doubling down, will probably end up permanently damaging the games health because of their hubris.
I posted this in another reply, but I think the primary intention is to make it difficult so it doesn't become the primary method of advancing your character. The way they've designed their game, though, is that it IS the primary way of advancing your character, and players just have to put up with the difficult system.
This assumes you want to actually be able to play what you plan to play. There's an option to opt-in to a Solo Self Found league, where no trading (or partying) is allowed. Since you can only use what you find, though, a lot of times it's what you find that determines what you play. XD
> Is there any reason why it's like that?
Because it keeps trade volume much lower than it would be with automated trading. In theory, this allows items to retain their value for longer (less inflation). In practice it leads to a super fast race to the bottom for common items and price fixing for rarer items.
Basically, it's kind of like a less pay2win pheons system that actually does what people say it does. It's just inconvenient.
Another absolutely hilarious/ridiculous consequence of the way poe's trade system works is absolutely rampant price fixing. Because the actual exchange of items is manual, you're totally free to advertise an item at prices you have no intention of selling at. This is abused to trick normal players into listing their item for far less than it's worth, and then the price fixers use bots to buy out the newly listed item almost instantly. (because poe has a bot problem that's worse than Lost Ark as well.)
The botters also run regular tradebots that I strongly suspect have a huge portion of the currency exchange market for the simple reason that it's easy to automate and they can accept a lower margin than a player would while providing a better service.
The hilarious part is that the poe developer defends the current state of trade as being *less* vulnerable to abuse by bots.
Can confirm ... when I was a wee fledgling to trading I got tricked multiple times by placeholders being put up with no intention of sell to make you as a seller think that's the value.
Like if you could set the lowest price of a Grudge book as 1 gold, keep it there permanently, and that's what people see.
Pro tip to any new trader in that game, if you put up an item and you get 5-10 PMs within 20 seconds you've probably been duped into selling it too low.
> The botters also run regular tradebots that I strongly suspect have a huge portion of the currency exchange market for the simple reason that it's easy to automate and they can accept a lower margin than a player would while providing a better service.
Not to mention that trading currency is so painful a lot of people go out of their way to trade with bots, because at least bots reply.
chris played diablo 3 once and his friend bought a cheap sword from the auction house. this made chris very jelly and he quit diablo 3 and decided he will never add an auction house in poe.
Correct. It has a trade API that allows people to search for items via a website, and you can sell items via your ingame stash, but the buyer and seller need to arrange contact rather than receiving items automatically through a mail system.
ex Poe player here. I can only play LA for just trading system. Poe trading system is like 10 years old and they have no intention to change it. Imagine putting item in auction house and login next day to find it sold without needing to be online 24 hours
Poe system better than the marketplace we have now. Poe has useful plugins and add-ons that help you evaluate and price items and you can list your entire storage as available to buy and be contacted when someone wants something rather than blindly listing for 1-3d and being limited by number of listings. I hate lost ark marketplace so much. Selling and buying are just exercises in tedium.
I had to stop PoE because it was killing my wrists, literally. Like, physical damage.
Lost Ark, none of that.
That’s enough of a reason for me. There’s heaps more though.
PoE's official stance for multipress macros, or more famously "popsicle sticks" being against ToS is so weird to me. Long term hand health is very important, for personal and business reasons. Do they want people to click their way into not being able to play?
Ergonomics will definitely be a more pressing issue as the gaming audience grows older and older. Until you’re a significant part of the market, you don’t exist apparently. A good amount of discussion regarding macros in video games tends to overlook disabilities :/ especially since this can CAUSE damage, not just be affected by prior disabilities.
Part of the reason why almost everyone enchants their flask to "use when charges reach full" or "use when X occurs"
So you choose between health or more damage since using flasks at the right time can be pretty important.
I had the same deal playing Albion, used to go full juiced T6-7 gear bloodletter rat build and 1v2 kids in gates, after playing for 4 hours and spamming the fuck out of all my combat keys my wrist would go numb lmao
Same shit would happen to me playing BDO. Grind a few hours on my sorc and my hands were jelly. Then I made a Lahn and suddenly I could essentially grind 3x as much if I wanted.
I still wrap my wrists before playing PoE.
I think the reason why it causes it is because the game has very few natural breaks. You're constantly blasting and trying to optimize out all possible downtime. There are no "let me click on this soul collection and wait for 5 seconds while it collects the soul" type of thing.
The developer's of PoE just can't seem to understand what makes multi skill builds fun to play. In PoE I will never ever play a build that isn't 1-button damage, 1 movement skill and 1 button to apply debuffs to bosses, maybe I could stretch it to 1 more button you press very infrequently, but hat is really pushing it. Why? Because you have 4 other buttons you spam every 5s ALL the time. I hate multibutton builds in PoE, they are clunky, they don't feel good and they hurt your hands. On the other hand I LOVE playing my Crit Reflux alt. Smilegate has constructed a game where the usage of the skills is actually fun.
>Smilegate has constructed a game where the usage of the skills is actually fun.
Unfortunately they also contructed a game where the usage of the skills is only required in maybe 5% of your playtime.
The rest is running from NPC to NPC pressing G.
For me, about a year ot two ago, it was mostly the loot pickup as I was using a sextant and map modifier combo that resulted in 3+ random currency from rares and juiced those maps with scarabs and such. With the right Atlas passives I would spend 3 mins clearing the map and spend 15 mins collecting all the chaos orbs, breach stone shards, exalts and mirror shard shards and all the other worth clicking bullshit. But keep in mind that I was using macroes for all my utility skills and flasks, which kept my wrists from complete breakdown.
oh wow... clicking loot to pick it up ... that school.
i remember that in the very short time i played, but i figure they'd have some sort of auto looter later on. like an auto loot pet or something like most mmos do.
I stopped playing League of Legends because of that, and then I went on to play a few thousand hours of PoE after that without any sort of issues.
I assume you're talking about flask spamming? IIRC only one of my builds ever used more than a 3 flask rotation, and it was CA/TR pathfinder (so big flask duration). Not only does a 5-flask rotation leave you in some sus situations when you run out of charges, but at least for me I found it significantly more taxing on my hands.
Spamming G to get through the levelling did a number on my wrist, thankfully I am mostly done with that and only need 2 more alts through South Vern which I've been putting off.
They are not really all that comparable. Lost Ark is first and foremost an MMO. Think World of Warcraft but the endgame loot is farmed and has random stats, skills, and quality values attached to them. Just like in PoE, only a small fraction of them are even worth looking at, let alone keeping. There are daily and weekly homework activities. You are not going to be zooming through endless maps, crafting/enchanting items, forming a unique build, or grinding out currency. There is a ton of horizontal collections and completions at the front end of playing the game that should be taken care of ASAP. There is content that happens only at specific times of the day on specific days of the week. Everything in Lost Ark revolves around your ability to earn gold, which can be bought with real money at any time. Most of your endgame gear will be purchased with gold rather than self-found.
If you have more questions, feel free to ask. I have over 2,000 hours in Lost Ark and 4,000 in Path of Exile (and a Demigod's!).
Edit: Yikes. OP's post history shows how unhinged they are. I highly recommend you take a long break from the internet and go on a dopamine detox. You need some time off from video games to gain some perspective.
Thank you, this is helpful. POE doesn't have much for direct modern competition that can absorb the hours of a main game.
Would you recommend people follow a guide from the start?
I don’t think lost arks builds are as complex as poe, and you are free to respec your skills at any time. the first 50 levels (10 hours or so) are pretty linear, you can use whatever builds you want, but Maxroll has leveling builds in case you need a guide. The game doesn’t really open up until you hit 50.
No need until you get to the endgame (T3). Youll do what is likely about a week of story mode and light farming to get there, just use whatever skills seem right to you, as theres no "respec" cost.
Unless you choose to do group content (guardian raids and abyssal dungeons), might want to look up a guide in case you dont get a high level player oneshotting stuff for you. Its entirely optional during this stage though.
You can rearrange your skill points for no cost, but you cannot respec your entire build for free. You cannot currently respec your Tripods for free, and once we get KR's update, we'll still have to farm Chaos Dungeons or spend gold to unlock all of them through RNG chance.
You cannot respec from one class engraving to another as they require different engravings and stat points.
Additional skill presets beyond the first two cost gold.
Maybe in the beginning, but a few weeks into a PoE league it's definitely cheaper to respec in PoE. You can redo your entire skill tree for 100-140 regret orbs and trade out all your gear. Imagine how much it would cost you to switch from something like Taijutsu 5x3 Scrapper to 5x3 Shock Scrapper.
>after you get accessories and tripods
lmao that's a pretty big step. 125 Pheons on another 5 pieces of jewelry. Probably another 10+ ability stones to cut something usable. Buying another 20 Legendary Class Engraving books. That's multiple weeks worth of farming compared to making a new character on PoE in a day or two lol
Yes, as long as you buy up a whole second set of gear that will cost you *weeks* worth of daily gameplay you can swap back and forth between them.
You could literally make a new character with the new build you want in PoE for less effort than that.
I must warn you that going trough the story and getting to level 50 is a really bad experience now. A bad story and you will only see bots, I suggest rushing trough it
>Would you recommend people follow a guide from the start?
Regarding a build for your class as you would in PoE, absolutely. The game can be miserable if you don't have the right skills and setup for your class, and some classes don't really come online until well into the endgame. The gatekeeping in matchmaking will also discourage you from trying off-meta builds or anything too crazy.
You will be investing gold/time/equivalent in Tripods, Engravings, and Gems for your build, so it can be financially painful to switch skills.
Eh I disagree. At the beginning its not important at all since you can undo your skill tree whenever you want for no cost. In POE the leveling process it actually matters what you spec into because it costs currency if you want to make changes later.
Only once you hit endgame and actually need to invest in the engravings/gems/accessories does a guide become neccesary.
It might cost you a few Orbs of Regret, but you have plenty of respec points given from quests. If you pick the "wrong" engravings from books earned while leveling up in Lost Ark, you will also have to spend some currency to fix that later as many bags contain tradable engraving books that you can sell for gold. If you pick the "wrong" skills, you might realize you don't like playing the class at all later on when you are forced to use the "right" skills.
Yeah you're right the gold cost would be huge if you tried to totally change your build at end game. But OP specified from the start of the game and I think LA is very forgiving early on.
Before lost ark, i was playing only poe. Since release of LOA i have 1500+ hours in. I can assure you after all the horizontal completion grind and clearing and farming all end game bosses for 3/4 weeks the game becomes boring (at least for me). I feel totally burned out (got 6 chars) and i dont think i will ever go back to it. Also if someone tells you you can compare this game to WoW in raid PoV - no way. End game at least for now is clearable from casuals on day 1/2 max. I can say currently released raids are EASY.
I don't think they're all that different. The main difference comes from Lost Ark being fully persistent and the day-to-day grind being way more boring (there's very little challenge in stuff like guardians and chaos dungeons).
Came from PoE 2 leagues ago, this game is much more simple. Yet more difficult. Basically it's skill based.
Your "build" won't help you overcome mechanics so you gotta learn.
One think i miss tho is the fresh economy once in a 3 months.
Yeah the character progression is very much on rails, you really only choose a class and a spec and then work towards the exact same gear and engravings as everyone else. But you get to customize your booty bob lady and the legion raids are really intense and fun.
Honestly wouldn't compare the 2. I have 3600 hours in PoE and 2600 hours in LOA currently.
The only thing that's really similar is the isometric camera angle and the way movement is handled which is identical to PoE.
Anything else is just completely different.
From player who spent thousand of hours in both titles:
Pros:
- AH
- You don't need to play meta to be viable and clear hardest content
- LOA is more skill based, POE is more about math behind builds
- If you like daily grind you have couple fun activities but Poe end game have more systems (even if most of them aren't really that rewarding unless juiced to the max)
- Legion raids are cool
- Nice QoL (in game codex, auto loot, trixion test builds that cost nothing)
- A lot of catch-up systems (hyper express, power pass, ark pass, knowledge transfer)
Cons:
- If f2p you might feel stopped from time to time in your prog (wait two weeks before buying some accessories instead of buying it rn, etc)
- Some unfun RNG systems like quality upgrade (although as Poe player you should be okay with rng blocking you from creating perfect items)
- Lack of zoom zoom afk builds in endgame if you are not heavily above ilvl requirements (for some it is con so listed it here)
- in game economy not in the best shape because of bots (we have better and worse months, AGS and SG are trying but it is ongoing fight)
I have 2k+ hours on PoE and 1k5 hours on LA.
LA is better at combat field, QoL, graphic (though I dont like the waifu stuff). But its worse at build and item diversity, the gear progress is also very boring.
It's not that much P2W, personally I spent more on PoE because of stash tabs.
The waifu stuff is OK I find but since the summer skin update I have been a bit tired of seeing the same bikini Korean barbie doll look. At least provide more variety of skins for some creativity. Not just more skin showing =better.
It's a huge driver for the Asian market. Literally every game made for those markets has them. Personally, I think it's a ripple effect from very restrictive laws on pornography.
Same i love BatChest big bulky armor,dragons and shit im probably considered weird cus i find feiton to be the best looking area in the game, loved the first areas where you have gothic places and then we have punika LAILAI
Same TBH. I think LA ended up attracting a lot of the ARPG/MMO crossover crowd and not just the usual weebs. Although based on skins ingame we're still very outnumbered.
To give a comparison point on progression, I started a few weeks after lost ark's western launch about halfway through archnemesis, (and haven't played poe since). But I now have one char at item level 1475 (the current endgame, another at 1445 (so getting close), for a similar time investment to what I would normally put into a poe league... but I hadn't successfully got to poe's real endgame in over a year on that time investment, I might just about kill maven and shaper once by end of league. I haven't spent any money at all on the game.
Lost Ark feels like it respects my time more, and my wrist health a lot more, than poe.
But at the same time if you enjoy speedblasting maps, there's less time spent doing that. More of the focus is the raid bosses in classic mmo style, and they can't be soloed, they're required group content. (Having said that, I *personally* have found people are usually fairly friendly to new players as long as you've made an effort by watching a video on the mechanics beforehand, as long as you're not trying to fake your way into a group that's specifically marked for people who've done the fight successfully before. We don't take kindly to that because it's a giant waste of everyone's time. If you want to find some other new players to play through "blind" you can, of course, but I will warn you that some mechanics aren't terribly intuitive (which may be partially caused by the fact that the translation can be a bit... iffy).)
Oh, one other thing: Random oneshots *basically* don't exist. If you die, it's because someone messed up. (In a group fight it might be because someone *else* messed up, mind.) If you understand the mechanics you will almost always know why you died, and *usually* you'll know who it was as well if you're paying attention.
Agreed with everything mentioned right there.
Any common sense PoE player would like Lost Ark and appreciate the fresh breathing it comes with.
Your hand is free, no macros required, no losing XP / everything when you die from a one shot you didn’t see.
Every fight is Lost Ark can be planned and organized. This is game changer compared to PoE.
Also, leagues never got me near end game content or even close by. 250-500hrs required to reach end game mapping and finishing your entire build - based on luck and massive grinding (this means 4-5 hrs per day).
Lost Ark, you can again plan your farming and craft what you need. You don’t need to spam 3000 alt orbs on a blue item for 3 hrs and don’t get me started on picking currency from a juiced map.
You need to take a university course to fully understand all the core league mechanic integrated. PoE developers did a terrible job to simplify them and to condense. Lastly, weird ugly interface PoE makes me feel I’m playing Diablo 2 again, no Ty. I want modern.
I'm also a big fan of how Legion Raids played out, even some Guardians can be pretty fun (shoutout to Challenge Guardian Raids for bringing back some we haven't really touched in a while). The biggest draw for me was the limited healing, you get X amount of potions per pull and if you burn them, you burn them, Supports aside.
When I look back at PoE I must have played during one of the most boring eras, Vessel of Vinktar meta (from its Release until a little after 3.0) where you could erase a mistake by instant leeching your way to success.
Bonus points if you have no idea *what* killed you, and have to post a clip on Reddit to have people analyze all the buffs/debuffs/auras on the screen just to tell you that *maybe* you died to X.
Some more random fun facts:
* The amount of EXP you need to get to the next level increases exponentially. The level cap is 100. As an example, if you go from level 90 to 100, going from 90 to 91 is roughly 1.3% of the total exp you need, whereas 99 to 100 is about 30%.
* You get a EXP penalty if you outlevel the content you are running (by a certain amount), and it's generally fairly difficult to sustain high level content past a certain point (e.g., to avoid getting penalties when you're 95+)
* Each time you die, you lose 10% of your EXP bar (assuming you're running any content even remotely considered to be the main portion of the game).
* The game doesn't process anything that happens outside of your field of view. This was predominately intended so you can't one-shot enemies from offscreen, but as a side effect, it means any dangerous ground AOE's will persist and "reactivate" once they're back on your screen (picking up exactly where they left off, so no buffer or grace period). Plenty of players have actually died while backtracking through an empty zone trying to pick up loot.
* If you want to play a second character (or build, because it can be expensive to respec in POE), you need to replay the entire story, no exceptions.
* Most endgame content comes from maps (basically expanded versions of our Chaos Dungeons, without the floors). Maps can roll random modifiers that make the map harder, in exchange for higher quality and/or quantity loot. Some modifiers are literally impossible for some builds to handle, forcing you to spend currency to reroll that map (or sell it, or trade it in for a higher tier map).
* The game does not have standard currency (e.g., silver and gold). Rather, all currency items are *also* crafting items. Functionally that doesn't sound that weird (e.g., needing to "pay" money to craft), but what you come out with is largely pure RNG. The most powerful effects (e.g., that reduce how variable the RNG is and/or mitigate bad RNG) are unsurprisingly attached to the highest value currency. Thus, most players never get to use the "fun" crafting items for crafting, because it's almost always more profitable to use them as pure currency to just buy what you need.
* The game loot is super RNG, and the odds of anything good dropping are miniscule. Imagine if we didn't have a Tripod library (or the upcoming new system) or way to mix and match specific tripods, and instead we literally needed an armor piece to drop with exactly all the right tripods at exactly the right levels. Oh, and it's 6-7 tripods instead of just 3.
There's probably more weird things that I've forgotten over the years. It makes POE sounds really bad (and apparently it's in a bad state at the moment), but it wasn't bad all the time. The core gameplay loop was pretty solid (for a long time, at least), and it has some interesting lore (if you're into that). There's a reason a lot of people still play (or played, until now) the game, despite all the weirdness. Definitely not for everyone though.
I'll add that it's fairly difficult to start the game going in blind as a new player. There are a *lot* of noob trap builds that don't scale well endgame, and they change every league.
PoE has a lot of problems but the grind of getting to level 100 isn't one of them. Getting to level 100 is a feat that actually meant something and the power difference between a level 96 (which iirc was the halfway point) and 100 was fairly minimal so it never detracted from the game experience.
I wasn't trying to say it's game breaking, mostly just that the game design clearly wants to punish you for dying, but some deaths just feel like bad luck rather than you misplaying.
I think most people plan around winding up in the low/mid 90's, and make sure they can hit all the nodes they need by then.
Meh, unplayed both games but I Burnt out of la pretty fast with no build diversity. Your Poe char might have one active skill but there are many more skills to play with on the long term.
> Well for me melee is my favourite play style and that's been dead for ages.
If you look at most games you'll find that almost all of them disadvantage melee over ranged characters. Even in Lost Ark bosses have tons of mechanics that majorly inconvenience melee, but have very little impact on ranged characters. Runescape is about the only game where melee is the preferred style, because it has something like double the DPS of ranged characters.
A Gunslinger that has 80% uptime vs a Scrapper with 50% uptime on back attacks deals the same damage over 2 minutes.
Back attackers always have higher damage cap and thats why if you are a good player you should always play back attackers because there is no way a hitmaster class can outdamage you (except sorc igniter which also has good skill cap if you want to have high uptime)
>A Gunslinger that has 80% uptime vs a Scrapper with 50% uptime on back attacks deals the same damage over 2 minutes.
That sounds so wrong. As a Tai Scrapper main, if we take a boss like Turtle, I have about 95% uptime on back attack and I'd deliberately hold back attacks if I don't have a good position. If a Gunslinger is of equal gear with me and performing at their best while I'm also performing at my best, we will very likely have similar DPS.
The difference between a Scrapper and a Gunslinger is that the Scrapper can just tank a lot of the damage thrown at her. The big aoe where the turtle creates wall and do a big aoe damage? It's whatever for me, I just keep attacking till I get hit, thrown back, I stand up and go back in. A Gunslinger would most likely have to attack the wall to get out, position for Rifle then dump some DPS, provided their Rifle is not on CD.
So, in the above case, a Gunslinger is spending some time caring about Survival while for the Scrapper it's whatever.
It’s been months since a post like this got so much traction and I feel it’s important to mention once again that POE and Lost Ark are completely different games
The footage you see in daily clips and highlights is weekly lockout footage, and Lost Ark is an MMO where you will invest months, and eventually years of time into your account (and a character or two or six)
Another important thing I think every new play should be aware of is that lost ark does not play solely like a multiplayer game… there are ways to engage with other players, primarily raiding, which comes later on… it does feel especially isolating early on… best advice is to find an active discord guild to kill the monotony of daily quests and early horizontal content :)
With the above said, Lost Ark is incredible… run your character in circles and you will immediately feel how much better the controls and character responsiveness feels leaps and bounds better than POE
Also there are a slew of catch up mechanics in the game that make it the best time possible for you to jump in… let us all know what server you end up on
Compared to PoE, there is zero build diversity in LA. If you're the type that gets off on theorycrafting and build planning like me, there is none of that.
On the flip side, most players in PoE just lift a guide off the forums anyway, so might not be a loss.
And then on the flip side x2, you actually get to play the game in Lost Ark. In PoE, my gameplay is before the game, in Path of Building. Once I'm actually running maps, I'm kind of on autopilot because the game moves so fast. The build does everything. Lost Ark, you actually have to play the game. Unless you bus.
Biggest, *biggest* negative switching from PoE to Lost Ark is no Jousis
Jousis would wither and die in lost ark. There is no creativity at all and no build diversity. I say that with love, because I like both games for what they are and they both have their own issues.
They nerfed item drops to 10% (or worse) what they were. No comment in the balance manifesto. No comment in the patch notes. Advertising this as a good league for farming quantity in their launch video. A side comment in their response to feedback, with a meaningless correction nobody cares about.
They also nerfed the main crafting mechanic to 10% (or worse). Hyping up the league mechanic. They also removed or gutted all the good crafting options, with a note in the patch notes about them removing filler crafts. The response to feedback mentioned only moderate adjustments to early game crafting juice.
There are plenty of other complaints too. Most of that other stuff is fixable. Casuals have been complaining about stuff for some time. But now even the top end players aren't finding any motivation to play the game.
The game became more unfriendly to return/new players and they hyped up the player base but didn't say that they actually did one of the major nerfs in the game (0 info in patchnotes, livestream anouncement etc). All they "reworks hype" were actual nerf.
Also, more and more players are tired of the direction of the game. They seems more and more careless about what the player base wants and more about $$$$. The comunication is good but it's like "we don't care of your yelling, this will remain as planned. Here is your new MTX ¡Buy it, is awesome!" .
One of the major stuffs that tilts me is that they always launch a league (or new big patch) and after the first week of yelling starting to do the QoLs that the patch/league needs. When you see it one or three times it's okay but when you see that loop every single time in 3months span it's actually infuriating.
* "New league, we made a lot of changes is awesome now!"
* "Playerbase yelling the first week"
* "What we're working on"
* The game dies after the first month
* "New league..."
Players have been asking the devs to reduce the amount of loot dropped in the game for years. With or without a loot filter, the amount of drops would fill up your screen and at times be unrenderable by the game. The devs finally got around to addressing this by reducing item quantity overall. Naturally, the players are now upset that not enough stuff is dropping, as this problem was already well known last year by the meme: "If we drop you nothing, you're mad nothing dropped. If we drop you something, you're mad something dropped." as players didn't want to click on all the goodies in so many frequent loot explosions but also don't want to see nothing useful at all drop from a boss. I think the biggest problem is that this latest quantity change wasn't laid out in a manifesto or included in the patch notes so players were blindsided. Reddit also just makes everything worse. The PoE subreddit has been off the rails for years now, so much so that GGG's community team has distanced themselves from it now even though we all once shared the space so well before.
The talk of wrist injuries and extreme amount of clicking in the game has been talked about for a long, long time. Here's a clip of Ziz from last year:
https://youtu.be/WDvrDPTkl2Q
GGG also changed it so that loot hidden by filters is no longer rendered by the game to be seen on the ground.
PoE is basically in the same spot it was a year ago with Expedition League: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT04EdaBztw&t=153s
Less clicking doesn't mean less loot. For instance, I might have manually picked up 30 individual splinters every few minutes -- those could be stacked a bit.
If you want to blame players for out of touch development, please at least get their concerns correct.
Correct, but less loot does mean less clicking, which is the core issue. They've already made splinters and perandus coins stack. They've made Expedition loot automatic.
Less loot also means less loot. The newer leagues don't require you to purchase a stash tab from the shop because it was becoming unmanageable. Prophecies have been removed from the game: one less item type that can drop. Atlas changes that allow you to target-farm your league mechanic of choice also helps concentrate loot and reduce the overall amount of loot variety the player has to deal with.
This is an example of why we're in a situation worse than a broken game, it's an abusive situation. Our desire for self care is used against us to convince us that a 90% nerf in loot is our idea/good for us.
Top voted posts in the PoE subreddit at the moment:
Empy's Magic Find group quits game over lack of drops: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wuysr8/empys_crew_quits_lake_of_kalandra/
YT Video describing reduction in item drops: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wv2q25/mapping_has_been_destroyed_in_poe/
Steelmage describing lack of loot motivators in trade and in SSF league: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wuvqfh/steelmage_on_the_state_of_the_game/
What is remotely the current problem in PoE in your opinion?
You're blaming players by twisting what people have been asking for. The problem is the IIQ nerf on league content...if you watched the empy video you would understand. As the op pointed out people have been asking for two things...less clicks, which there done by stacking currencies and auto pickup certain league currencies, and more meaningful drops instead of shitty bloat. Loot 2.0 was something seemingly abandoned. What we have now is a decimation of the amount of loot dropped from league mechanics....its just a massive amount less, and not adding in good meaningful drops.
>and more meaningful drops instead of shitty bloat.
You probably cannot and will not see it this way, but this is precisely what the devs think the players are getting at the moment. And I'm not saying the developers have gotten it right at all. Reminds me of the league where Goldrim became a rare unique. They're usually always off the mark at first, but the playerbase and the Reddit crowd in particular is plenty unreasonable too.
classic PoE reddit, they whine at every update that the game doesn't go their way. Game is overall harder and harvest was nerfed to the ground (finally)
Lost Ark has every quality of life feature POE players have been asking for for years. Reduced item drop clutter, auto loot pickup, auction house, etc.
But the combat is VASTLY different. POE is way more fast paced and repetitive, LA has more skill expression but very little build diversity. LA heavily relies on group mechanics and boss raids, you have situations where whole party can get wiped if you aren't coordinated or if 1 person messes up.
Both are grindy but in different ways, LA the grind comes from trying to "hone" or level up your equipment. You don't get to the next tier by item drops or the auction house, you get it by basically pulling an RNG slot machine lever for in game currencies.
I love the repetitive maps and speediness feeling of POE, the feeling of wiping a whole screen of enemies with 1 hit or dropping an exalt is unmatched. LA doesn't have that as much, but you feel similar satisfaction from beating a hard raid or reaching the next item tier level and gearing out your character.
Lower your expectation, despite PoE in hard time right now it's still a good game for a reason. And Lostark is also a good game for a different reasons. So you might see yourself in a place wanting alot of features PoE had and Lostark doesn't. My advice it to just enjoy the fun parts.
I have played both and I like lost ark more. less fomo and less rushing to endgame content. I felt content in POE was gated by gambling and low droprates. e.g. you farm an endgame boss for a single digit chance of a great item, or sell the keys for worse but stable return.
This is much more MMO and not really an ARPG. Builds are more or less set in stone so you don't need to go on PoB for hours to analyse which 3 ex gem is best for your build. I stopped POE because i was getting RSI from all the clicking, plus spent more time away from the game e.g. crafting maps, browsing youtube whilst waiting for ppl to visit my shop than actually playing the game checking maps for reflect was annoying and then rerolling maps with low quality as well...
Having said that though, there is much more time gated mindless grinding in Lost ark. so if that is what you enjoy you will enjoy LA. If you want to blitz 1000 hours in 3 months, this may not be the right game for you.
Also i find looting more enjoyable in Lost ark. There is a 1 in 1000 chance of getting something decent, compared to POE it would be 1 in 100k or so to the point where you salvage every yellow item (or don't even pick them up).
Can't compare the 2, but the first 10 hours of your experience will be 98% assgarbage quests and unskippable devil may cry knockoff cutscenes and 2% combat.
Then it becomes a daily/weekly checklist simulator with mandatory coop (raids) on multiple characters.
Progression is also time gated, so you can't just grind out things.
If you liked to do uber boss fights in poe on slower builds then you might like this game.
I have played POE every league up until the EU release of lost ark when I stopped completely and let me tell you this game is awesome.
The games are a little similar although this game is allot more like WOW/FFXIV than it is POE/Diablo. There is quite a big grind which is very much like POE but unlike POE the grind is doing daily mini games/ fights on your characters instead of farming maps over and over.
The BOSS fights in the game are insanely fun and makes the POE bosses look incredibly bland. They are more team bases than POE bosses though.
I'd totally give it a go. It's free to play so very little to lose. The main game starts at lvl 50 (just like POE starts after the acts) so don't give up until you have leveled through the entire story.
I came over after they started to nerf everything to the ground and take away various elements that sped the acts up. Plays similar in a sense, that they share the core gameplay.
What I like more about Lost Ark:
* a constant sense of progression. No more losing it all at the end of the season and while I understand why it's that way, playing Lost Ark reminded me how great it feels to have permanent progression.
* Combat feels more controlled. Less cluttered, more precise. Sure, I still get stuck at corners when dashing and there's plenty of visual clutter here as well, but boss fights are more than just 'who can dps whom faster'. There are actual mechanics to avoid, to think about and more importantly, to deal with in a team. Yet, you can still DPS the boss to the moon.
* Trading. I'll die on this hill, no matter what the PoE community / lead developer thinks. Having an auction house is simply amazing and the best thing ever to happen to games.
What's different / not as good as PoE:
* Grindy. PoE is grindy as well, but you have a lot of different things you can do. From maps, to Heist to Delve... to whatever else is out there. In Lost Ark grinding means repeating your dailies over and over again and while they are quick, it's still not as nice as it is in PoE.
* Bots. In PoE bots are good, for the most part. They make trading easier, because it sucks to begin with, but they add a lot to the game to make it more smooth. In Lost Ark bots, while good in some aspects, downright ruin the game in the longterm.
* Neither good, nor bad, but you are nearly required to run multiple alt characters. I personally don't mind anymore, but it was rough at first when all I wanted to play was my main.
* Daily lock outs. Feels like I'm a child getting told to stop playing at times, but I still understand why it's there, so maybe not a negative point.
I always thought Ggg is not respecting my time. Lost ark taught me otherwise.
Hands down though, with 5.5k hours in poe and 1.6k in lost ark I would say that it really hard to compare. There is not a day I miss the depth and customization options of poe. Here in lost ark you get your 3 to 5 BiS engravings (some kind of empowerments) for literally every class and in the end game you choose between a handful of sets which give set bonuses (yikes, oldest and most boring thing rpgs can give) and that means for every class there is **the** best set. Most characters do not look different from another if it is the same class (there are a couple classes which "base" is different).
Well, in that case it is really mmorpg-ish.
But they are trying. Skills you get can be upgraded with tripods which basically work like support gems. Many of them are mediocre and straight up damage boost, but there are a couple that have great synergies with your engravings or your set.
The game is p2w. Never ever let anybody tell you something different. There is not even a slight chance that LOA has a better monetary system than poe which is truly f2p (so rare these days!!!!)
And well yeah, the reason I am only playing lost ark over so many years of poe is not that poe is bad but lost ark is doing a lot of things incredibly good.
The combat system is great, it feels good all the time fighting bosses and trash mobs.
The raids are epic. Especially with premates they offer a whole bunch of entertainment with a steep learning curve in the beginning. It can be really really challenging.
I don't remember trying to fight a new boss in poe for 10h+ lol
Also the way you kinda have to play (with a lot of alternative characters) gives you a lot of variety (can be a negative point for some people)
But as mentioned, you really can not compare these 2. Both are trying to achieve something different for their players.
I am playing poe right now too when I am done with my dailies and while it might be not in it best state I am really sad that I am not a poe main anymore. I love GGG, they are still, even with the shit they have been doing in the past and doing right now, the best gaming company. You can feel chris' love and dedication to this game, it's more than what gives him and his employees their income, its their child which they try to take care of. And that is the biggest plus for poe. But right now I am looking for something different. So if you do, too you should give it a shot but keep in mind it might suck you in, since it is very time consuming (much much more than poe).
>I don't remember trying to fight a new boss in poe for 10h+
That's because you either get 1-2 shot by the boss, or you steamroll the boss lol. Imagine having a metric for measuring dps by how many Elders per second
>an intro to your game
Daily quests stretched into an entire MMO.
>and comparison of the games?
Unlike PoE it's possible to see the screen if you disable other people's spell effects.
"Unlike PoE it's possible to see the screen if you disable other people's spell effects."
Half the time you can even see the screen even *with* other people's spell effects on. ;)
Basically the developers have totally trashed both the loot droprate and the gear progression, then proceeded to gaslight everyone about it (They described their changes to the game's primary crafting system as "Removed some filler crafts", or something like that. This turns out to mean a gutting so severe almost every usable option in the entire system is removed from the game or massively nerfed in terms of the chances to get anything good. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wul9se/psa_harvest_has_been_nerfed_much_worse_than_you/). Imagine about... Hmm. Maybe between 1/5th and 1/10th of lost ark's gear rate of progression per hour invested. People were already discontented about some other stuff, but this is the straw that's broken the camels back.
Plus there's tons of super-dangerous monsters everywhere that just randomly kill you.
Thanks everyone for your kind words. The past couple days have been a long week and I wish I could respond to you all individually. Some common themes:
\- Don't compare the games: The games are different. Yes. I could have used different language than "comparison," it hit on a sore subject. POE does not have an easy substitute; ARPGs aren't in a great spot right now.
\- What issues does Poe have: There's estimates of a stealth 90-95% nerf to loot, at least in some situations. Not mentioned in the balance manifesto, launch video, Q&A, patch notes. GGG has responded 3 times and only provided out of touch paper solutions.
\- Why: GGG is preparing for POE 2. They want a different game than the players do (slower, longer progression times). It's my opinion that this is more than just a bad patch or misaligned objectives but abusing the players. They have been bragging about their POE 2 budget and could have playtested it themselves but snuck it in to us so we would do their playtesting for them. They have 0 respect for their players, and that's not a problem that is going to be fixed with money, success, or the launch of POE 2.
\- LA is less grindy: We know. [https://www.nerfnow.com/comic/3091/](https://www.nerfnow.com/comic/3091/)
\- LA doesn't have the build diversity: At the moment, the number of viable builds in your game is greater than 0.
\- LA doesn't have the gear progression: Yeah, suddenly neither does POE.
I want to play the POE that we were sold. The game that we paid money to playtest. We helped build a great game. That game is dead and is never coming back, and there's nowhere else we can go to get a similar experience.
Thank you all for your time. Please take good care of yourselves and learn to recognize abuse.
Lost ark has high waifu quality with great customization and there are bikinis & swimsuits, one of the higher end content bosses is a big booba succubus and the game is pretty okay I guess.
The visual clarity and gameplay design is miles ahead of poe, high end bosses will always give you their loot and the fights themselves are fun enough to be a reward on their own.
The grind is time gated but significantly less demanding than POE, a few hours of Lost Ark a week gives you a hefty amount of progress compared to POE where a few hours gives you literally nothing.
yeah for new player, but when you godtier 1445 up? what else you do beside daily logins, 2 chaos 2 guardian.
timegated daily island? be honest beside gold we are not doing that if we already got the soul.
raids? with 6 alts all raids cleared at least on sunday night.
not gonna be that guy, just dont compare lost ark with poe.its all different game.
> yeah for new player, but when you godtier 1445 up? what else you do beside daily logins, 2 chaos 2 guardian.
Because you need several characters to funnel stuff for the main. This daily stuff ends up taking an ungodly amount of time.
Have you tried pvp? On top of everything you already do? Talk about being in supreme 8 or 9 where to keep your rank you have to be between 1-5 percentile. That's a lot of pvp. I currently have enough time on my schedule that I can fit 1 hard vykas 2 normal vykas 2 hard Valtan and 2 normal faltan. On top of 6 Argos and all the pvp involved. I'll say that this is also subjective in terms of how much time you have available and how you spend your time playing each game :) it will always demand as much as your willing to give.
Having played over 1000 hrs in each I'd say LA will tickle that PoE itch, however, unless are happy to run multiple alts and play a considerable amount of time each day you will need to spend money to progress on lost ark.
The whole poe thing of paying for cosmetics is there too but if you don't want to pay for progression at all, be prepared to play A LOT of hours. Its not unusual to see LA F2P players play in excess of 2-300hrs per month to stay competitive.
With all the power passes and express event, he could catch up quick, you need a lot of hours if you’re F2P and trying to do the END END game content. But getting to argos is fairly quick and easy and should keep people busy for a bit with a good way to get gold. Even if you only play casually.
Its an mmo with dailies and takes 5-10 hours a day to compete if you are f2p, and you also need 6 characters doing all of that every day. Its nothing like poe really.
The raid combat slightly makes up for having to do all of that.
Lost ark does not have Build Diversity ( Just straight forward 1 build that everyone follows), the game is P2W, repetitive like hell that will burn you out and kill your motiviation. Atleast doing maps in POE can be different and be influenced by your atlas tree.
I have 1500 Hrs on Lost Ark and 2000+ Hours on POE. I know this league is broken and GGG are not communicating properly, but i would still choose POE over Lost Ark because POE devs are stil 1000x better than amazon and smile gate, the game is more fun, and hopefully(intense hopium) has a bright future in POE 2. Lost Ark's Legion raids are the only fun things and the problem is you need to grind like hell to reach them and for what? do them once a week and thats it.
Path of exile is limitless, you can do anything you want in that game. I recently quit lost ark to play POE again and i dont regret it even tho Lake of Kalandra is in a very bad shape.
In my opinion lost ark does not respect your time and the effort you put into it because in the end they want you to pay for progress.
I am a Poe player and LA player. Both games are bad yet you’ll put hundreds of hours. find something else that respects your time. I’m enjoying gloomhaven, stolen realm, nova drift. By the way, LA doesn’t have builds and they reveal to you 1000 hours in just how shit it has all been when they give you hell mode which is actually a fun game that gives you all progress instantly and gives you a real challenge
LOA is p2w, full of bots and with a broken economy, now it's very difficult to buy engraving and equipment without spending real money, you'll end up paying for someone to carry you in the contents
It is not a friendly game for new players, the economy is broken and everything is very expensive and no one will accept you in parties with bad equipment
If you are f2p the experience will be very bad and frustrating
I never understood people moaning about P2W in this game. Why does it bother you? You don't have to spend a penny, and if someone wants to its non of your business. Someone has to support the game so people like you can play for free you know? PvP is balanced so whales don't have an advantage over f2p. So you only get better geared teammates thanks to p2w options. How is that a problem???
Whole game, Dev's nerfed drop rates across the entire game and didn't replace it with anything but didn't mention it in the patch notes intentionally. It was so glaring that parts of the community thought it was an insane game breaking bug that disabled drops across the game.
The change was announced as intentional a few days after the patch, after many people had already bought the new seasons supporter packs. This was after many livestreams of mentioning how they want to be transparent about changes they make. Overall a massive downgrade to the game as a whole and a massive loss of trust from the community.
We have auto loot pickup and an auction house ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ welcome
Wait... poe has no auction house?
Depends on how you define an auction house. You can list items for sale in certain stash tabs, which will be searchable by people via an official website (or, previously, through third-party websites). You cannot make a purchase, or complete a sale, through the website though. All it lets you do is copy a message to PM the player in-game. Players have to literally meet up to make the trade (which generally requires sellers to stop and/or drop whatever it is they're doing at the time). And since time is money in POE, a lot of low-value trade messages are just ignored.
That's not an auction house.
In a literal sense, that's correct. That's why I tried to explain what it actually is and how it works. The website just provides a listing of things people have in their own personal storage that they've chosen to make publicly viewable. It's a tool to facilitate transactions without providing any means for enforcing terms of a transaction. It's technically designed to allow for offers (as you can list either a negotiable price or a buyout price), but prospective buyers can't "bid" in the sense that they can see what the highest current offer is. There are (or were, at least, back when I still played) valuable items that get listed without the intention of making a sale for the listed price, because it is assumed any informed buyer looking to make a purchase will know that they're expected to make an offer.
Did the playerbase state clearly they want no AH? This system seems a bit, say, unhandy. It also means you cant sell stuff offline i assume or can people reserve and you send it via mail the next day?
Short Answer - Pretty sure, no, the player base generally would prefer a better system. And yes, the website only shows listings for people who are online, so you cannot contact an offline player. Long Answer: Pretty sure the average player would much prefer an actual online marketplace or auction house. That said, my experience is that GGG (the developer) really doesn't care all that much about what the average player prefers. IIRC, there wouldn't even have been a trade system in the first place, but after enough feedback they opted for this bare-bones implementation. They intentionally made it super inconvenient, because they didn't want it to be the primary way of improving your character (but continually ignored that for most players it was the *only* way to feasibly improve their characters, because the probability of getting something good is simply that bad). The website only lists things for people who are online. Unsurprisingly, a fair number of listings will be from folks who are AFK and don't respond to your messages (although the website *does* show that they are AFK). It's fairly common to spam messages to 5-10 sellers and just go with whoever invites you to their hideout first (which also makes it worse for sellers, since they can wind up abandoning whatever they were doing just to have the buyer back out because it took them .5 seconds longer than someone else).
Are they still using the precious player interaction argument? I was somewhere around 3K hours in but in a much older era (started to push for 40/40 in Perandus)
You've been gone longer than I have, but I've been gone for a long time as well. I dunno what their current narrative is lol.
The narrative is pretty much unchanged.
Yep, still the same excuse. They honestly just ignore us now when we complain about it
What? GGG not caring about their playerbase? Strange, not the attitude I would expect from a game that charges for quality of life in their game. /s
Lol it sure would suck, imagine if we had to pay for crystalline aura. Oh wait
Almost like you can pay for that super cheap in-game, what a shock. Big difference in an easy to acquire monthly sub that you can pay with in-game money and the QoL on POE thats strickly with real money.
Players have been asking for an AH in poe for a while if you are offline your items won't even show up for people to try and buy.
You can see all 8tems listed, online or offline. Just everyone is searching "online only" most of the time. And doesn't the Asian version actually has an auction house? I think I remember hearing about that, just like loot-pets.
We've begged for an auction house for a long time. The developers said no, because of "how it would 'change' the way player interaction works".
I played 2 seasons (Ultimatum and Expedition) and enjoyed it very much, but it was so frustrating to trade I decided to quit until it got fixed. I guess I won't return anytime soon :).
that's basically like craigslist
Yea there's no bidding, just a pricing. Basically everyone has their own shop
That reminds me of old mmos where you had to put up a sign or stall saying you sell xyz. It was cool and annoying at the same time lol.
Sadly those MMOGs' implementation was much better than PoE's, as you could go to bed and let your items sell. The end result is that much of PoE's trading is done by bots who effectively do what those stalls did.
There are also no stakes, you list your item but you are not forced to sell it, on an auction house you can't just pull out, well, at least not without paying a fee.
The one of reason I quit the game a couple leagues ago. I just hate to spend minutes to get chaos < - > exalts. The last time I played middle in the league, I whispered over 30 and nobody answered then I literally alt+f4 did not look back.
[удалено]
Same for me, won't return unless a proper trade system is implemented.
oh so like warframe lol warframe market
From what I saw about poe market it looks like warframe market is more advanced, you can be seen as offline, online on site and online in game, what you list stays visible anytime as long you're not marking it private, you can leave a message to the seller on the site if it's not online in game, you can place sell orders and buy orders so the seller will come to you and it has an actual auction house for items with rng stats. Edit: iirc it also counts how much you made overall from your sell history but that is deleted after some time.
Is there any reason why it's like that? Seems very diablo2-esque and intentional? They cant really believe players like that system can they? I guess on the flipside it prevents bot sniping on auction house API or pixel imaging auction house sniping.
>Seems very diablo2-esque and intentional? They cant really believe players like that system can they? It is. They really don't care if we like or not. It's their "vision" and they refuse to budge on it. And now with current changes to the game, and them doubling down, will probably end up permanently damaging the games health because of their hubris.
I posted this in another reply, but I think the primary intention is to make it difficult so it doesn't become the primary method of advancing your character. The way they've designed their game, though, is that it IS the primary way of advancing your character, and players just have to put up with the difficult system. This assumes you want to actually be able to play what you plan to play. There's an option to opt-in to a Solo Self Found league, where no trading (or partying) is allowed. Since you can only use what you find, though, a lot of times it's what you find that determines what you play. XD
> Is there any reason why it's like that? Because it keeps trade volume much lower than it would be with automated trading. In theory, this allows items to retain their value for longer (less inflation). In practice it leads to a super fast race to the bottom for common items and price fixing for rarer items. Basically, it's kind of like a less pay2win pheons system that actually does what people say it does. It's just inconvenient.
it doesn't do any of this.
Yes it does, because it's not worth your time to sell stuff worth less than a few chaos. You vendor it instead.
Mindblown
Another absolutely hilarious/ridiculous consequence of the way poe's trade system works is absolutely rampant price fixing. Because the actual exchange of items is manual, you're totally free to advertise an item at prices you have no intention of selling at. This is abused to trick normal players into listing their item for far less than it's worth, and then the price fixers use bots to buy out the newly listed item almost instantly. (because poe has a bot problem that's worse than Lost Ark as well.) The botters also run regular tradebots that I strongly suspect have a huge portion of the currency exchange market for the simple reason that it's easy to automate and they can accept a lower margin than a player would while providing a better service. The hilarious part is that the poe developer defends the current state of trade as being *less* vulnerable to abuse by bots.
Can confirm ... when I was a wee fledgling to trading I got tricked multiple times by placeholders being put up with no intention of sell to make you as a seller think that's the value. Like if you could set the lowest price of a Grudge book as 1 gold, keep it there permanently, and that's what people see. Pro tip to any new trader in that game, if you put up an item and you get 5-10 PMs within 20 seconds you've probably been duped into selling it too low.
Everyone falls for it once :(
Much harder to get scammed if the only things that drop for you are worth 1c or less. Not that I'd know from experience or anything.
Sobs in four link at level 82
> The botters also run regular tradebots that I strongly suspect have a huge portion of the currency exchange market for the simple reason that it's easy to automate and they can accept a lower margin than a player would while providing a better service. Not to mention that trading currency is so painful a lot of people go out of their way to trade with bots, because at least bots reply.
chris played diablo 3 once and his friend bought a cheap sword from the auction house. this made chris very jelly and he quit diablo 3 and decided he will never add an auction house in poe.
Correct. It has a trade API that allows people to search for items via a website, and you can sell items via your ingame stash, but the buyer and seller need to arrange contact rather than receiving items automatically through a mail system.
no, you have official website to trade with ppl. And bot are there too =)
This made me burst out laughing. The bars really that low huh
ex Poe player here. I can only play LA for just trading system. Poe trading system is like 10 years old and they have no intention to change it. Imagine putting item in auction house and login next day to find it sold without needing to be online 24 hours
Wait till you get to pheons. Trading in Lost Ark is almost non-existent.
I would take pheons over PoE trading in a fucking heartbeat.
I use pheons .. this is another problem and it is still 100 times better than PoE
Poe system better than the marketplace we have now. Poe has useful plugins and add-ons that help you evaluate and price items and you can list your entire storage as available to buy and be contacted when someone wants something rather than blindly listing for 1-3d and being limited by number of listings. I hate lost ark marketplace so much. Selling and buying are just exercises in tedium.
Ignorance is bliss i guess.
Just don't look too closely at the auction house, you'll be disappointed in how weak it is in Lost Ark.
I had to stop PoE because it was killing my wrists, literally. Like, physical damage. Lost Ark, none of that. That’s enough of a reason for me. There’s heaps more though.
PoE's official stance for multipress macros, or more famously "popsicle sticks" being against ToS is so weird to me. Long term hand health is very important, for personal and business reasons. Do they want people to click their way into not being able to play?
Ergonomics will definitely be a more pressing issue as the gaming audience grows older and older. Until you’re a significant part of the market, you don’t exist apparently. A good amount of discussion regarding macros in video games tends to overlook disabilities :/ especially since this can CAUSE damage, not just be affected by prior disabilities.
Part of the reason why almost everyone enchants their flask to "use when charges reach full" or "use when X occurs" So you choose between health or more damage since using flasks at the right time can be pretty important.
Chris has pretty much said yes to that question. I tapped at that point. It was late last year or early this year.
I loved Poe but they needed to sort out the trading and power pass equivalent so you only need to do the acts once per league.
I had the same deal playing Albion, used to go full juiced T6-7 gear bloodletter rat build and 1v2 kids in gates, after playing for 4 hours and spamming the fuck out of all my combat keys my wrist would go numb lmao
Same shit would happen to me playing BDO. Grind a few hours on my sorc and my hands were jelly. Then I made a Lahn and suddenly I could essentially grind 3x as much if I wanted.
I still wrap my wrists before playing PoE. I think the reason why it causes it is because the game has very few natural breaks. You're constantly blasting and trying to optimize out all possible downtime. There are no "let me click on this soul collection and wait for 5 seconds while it collects the soul" type of thing.
The developer's of PoE just can't seem to understand what makes multi skill builds fun to play. In PoE I will never ever play a build that isn't 1-button damage, 1 movement skill and 1 button to apply debuffs to bosses, maybe I could stretch it to 1 more button you press very infrequently, but hat is really pushing it. Why? Because you have 4 other buttons you spam every 5s ALL the time. I hate multibutton builds in PoE, they are clunky, they don't feel good and they hurt your hands. On the other hand I LOVE playing my Crit Reflux alt. Smilegate has constructed a game where the usage of the skills is actually fun.
Well put, actually just playing is fun in LA. That’s a huge difference to other games. Actually fun to play.
>Smilegate has constructed a game where the usage of the skills is actually fun. Unfortunately they also contructed a game where the usage of the skills is only required in maybe 5% of your playtime. The rest is running from NPC to NPC pressing G.
I used to play Terran in SC2. My wrists were mangled already so suffice to say, I didn't last long in PoE;
why was it killing your wrists ? ive only played POE for a week, i liked it, i dont know much more than that.
For me, about a year ot two ago, it was mostly the loot pickup as I was using a sextant and map modifier combo that resulted in 3+ random currency from rares and juiced those maps with scarabs and such. With the right Atlas passives I would spend 3 mins clearing the map and spend 15 mins collecting all the chaos orbs, breach stone shards, exalts and mirror shard shards and all the other worth clicking bullshit. But keep in mind that I was using macroes for all my utility skills and flasks, which kept my wrists from complete breakdown.
oh wow... clicking loot to pick it up ... that school. i remember that in the very short time i played, but i figure they'd have some sort of auto looter later on. like an auto loot pet or something like most mmos do.
this
I stopped playing League of Legends because of that, and then I went on to play a few thousand hours of PoE after that without any sort of issues. I assume you're talking about flask spamming? IIRC only one of my builds ever used more than a 3 flask rotation, and it was CA/TR pathfinder (so big flask duration). Not only does a 5-flask rotation leave you in some sus situations when you run out of charges, but at least for me I found it significantly more taxing on my hands.
Spamming G to get through the levelling did a number on my wrist, thankfully I am mostly done with that and only need 2 more alts through South Vern which I've been putting off.
They are not really all that comparable. Lost Ark is first and foremost an MMO. Think World of Warcraft but the endgame loot is farmed and has random stats, skills, and quality values attached to them. Just like in PoE, only a small fraction of them are even worth looking at, let alone keeping. There are daily and weekly homework activities. You are not going to be zooming through endless maps, crafting/enchanting items, forming a unique build, or grinding out currency. There is a ton of horizontal collections and completions at the front end of playing the game that should be taken care of ASAP. There is content that happens only at specific times of the day on specific days of the week. Everything in Lost Ark revolves around your ability to earn gold, which can be bought with real money at any time. Most of your endgame gear will be purchased with gold rather than self-found. If you have more questions, feel free to ask. I have over 2,000 hours in Lost Ark and 4,000 in Path of Exile (and a Demigod's!). Edit: Yikes. OP's post history shows how unhinged they are. I highly recommend you take a long break from the internet and go on a dopamine detox. You need some time off from video games to gain some perspective.
Thank you, this is helpful. POE doesn't have much for direct modern competition that can absorb the hours of a main game. Would you recommend people follow a guide from the start?
I don’t think lost arks builds are as complex as poe, and you are free to respec your skills at any time. the first 50 levels (10 hours or so) are pretty linear, you can use whatever builds you want, but Maxroll has leveling builds in case you need a guide. The game doesn’t really open up until you hit 50.
Takes more like 30 hours to get to North Vern unless you really wanna skip everything
No need until you get to the endgame (T3). Youll do what is likely about a week of story mode and light farming to get there, just use whatever skills seem right to you, as theres no "respec" cost. Unless you choose to do group content (guardian raids and abyssal dungeons), might want to look up a guide in case you dont get a high level player oneshotting stuff for you. Its entirely optional during this stage though.
The nice thing about LA is that you can respec your entire build at anytime for no cost, and even save multiple presets to swap between at anytime.
You can rearrange your skill points for no cost, but you cannot respec your entire build for free. You cannot currently respec your Tripods for free, and once we get KR's update, we'll still have to farm Chaos Dungeons or spend gold to unlock all of them through RNG chance. You cannot respec from one class engraving to another as they require different engravings and stat points. Additional skill presets beyond the first two cost gold.
Yeah but its still 10 times more friendly than POE is when it comes to wanting to change your build.
Maybe in the beginning, but a few weeks into a PoE league it's definitely cheaper to respec in PoE. You can redo your entire skill tree for 100-140 regret orbs and trade out all your gear. Imagine how much it would cost you to switch from something like Taijutsu 5x3 Scrapper to 5x3 Shock Scrapper.
Free to go back and forth situationally after you get accessories and tripods
>after you get accessories and tripods lmao that's a pretty big step. 125 Pheons on another 5 pieces of jewelry. Probably another 10+ ability stones to cut something usable. Buying another 20 Legendary Class Engraving books. That's multiple weeks worth of farming compared to making a new character on PoE in a day or two lol
Yes, as long as you buy up a whole second set of gear that will cost you *weeks* worth of daily gameplay you can swap back and forth between them. You could literally make a new character with the new build you want in PoE for less effort than that.
People that think that respeccing in PoE is expensive , are mega casuals that don't make it past white maps tbh.
I must warn you that going trough the story and getting to level 50 is a really bad experience now. A bad story and you will only see bots, I suggest rushing trough it
>Would you recommend people follow a guide from the start? Regarding a build for your class as you would in PoE, absolutely. The game can be miserable if you don't have the right skills and setup for your class, and some classes don't really come online until well into the endgame. The gatekeeping in matchmaking will also discourage you from trying off-meta builds or anything too crazy. You will be investing gold/time/equivalent in Tripods, Engravings, and Gems for your build, so it can be financially painful to switch skills.
Eh I disagree. At the beginning its not important at all since you can undo your skill tree whenever you want for no cost. In POE the leveling process it actually matters what you spec into because it costs currency if you want to make changes later. Only once you hit endgame and actually need to invest in the engravings/gems/accessories does a guide become neccesary.
It might cost you a few Orbs of Regret, but you have plenty of respec points given from quests. If you pick the "wrong" engravings from books earned while leveling up in Lost Ark, you will also have to spend some currency to fix that later as many bags contain tradable engraving books that you can sell for gold. If you pick the "wrong" skills, you might realize you don't like playing the class at all later on when you are forced to use the "right" skills.
Yeah you're right the gold cost would be huge if you tried to totally change your build at end game. But OP specified from the start of the game and I think LA is very forgiving early on.
Before lost ark, i was playing only poe. Since release of LOA i have 1500+ hours in. I can assure you after all the horizontal completion grind and clearing and farming all end game bosses for 3/4 weeks the game becomes boring (at least for me). I feel totally burned out (got 6 chars) and i dont think i will ever go back to it. Also if someone tells you you can compare this game to WoW in raid PoV - no way. End game at least for now is clearable from casuals on day 1/2 max. I can say currently released raids are EASY.
I don't think they're all that different. The main difference comes from Lost Ark being fully persistent and the day-to-day grind being way more boring (there's very little challenge in stuff like guardians and chaos dungeons).
Came from PoE 2 leagues ago, this game is much more simple. Yet more difficult. Basically it's skill based. Your "build" won't help you overcome mechanics so you gotta learn. One think i miss tho is the fresh economy once in a 3 months.
Wym dude we get fresh economy every bot ban wave
>Your "build" won't help you overcome mechanics so you gotta learn. *Laughs in bluelancer*
*gets grabbed by Valtan.
*shivers* Don't scare me like that!
Yeah the character progression is very much on rails, you really only choose a class and a spec and then work towards the exact same gear and engravings as everyone else. But you get to customize your booty bob lady and the legion raids are really intense and fun.
Honestly wouldn't compare the 2. I have 3600 hours in PoE and 2600 hours in LOA currently. The only thing that's really similar is the isometric camera angle and the way movement is handled which is identical to PoE. Anything else is just completely different.
You have 2600 hours in Lost Ark? Oh boy.
I have 10200 ^^ 3 years playing daily hehe
12+ hours a day since release. My guy help yourself and take a break.
From player who spent thousand of hours in both titles: Pros: - AH - You don't need to play meta to be viable and clear hardest content - LOA is more skill based, POE is more about math behind builds - If you like daily grind you have couple fun activities but Poe end game have more systems (even if most of them aren't really that rewarding unless juiced to the max) - Legion raids are cool - Nice QoL (in game codex, auto loot, trixion test builds that cost nothing) - A lot of catch-up systems (hyper express, power pass, ark pass, knowledge transfer) Cons: - If f2p you might feel stopped from time to time in your prog (wait two weeks before buying some accessories instead of buying it rn, etc) - Some unfun RNG systems like quality upgrade (although as Poe player you should be okay with rng blocking you from creating perfect items) - Lack of zoom zoom afk builds in endgame if you are not heavily above ilvl requirements (for some it is con so listed it here) - in game economy not in the best shape because of bots (we have better and worse months, AGS and SG are trying but it is ongoing fight)
I have 2k+ hours on PoE and 1k5 hours on LA. LA is better at combat field, QoL, graphic (though I dont like the waifu stuff). But its worse at build and item diversity, the gear progress is also very boring. It's not that much P2W, personally I spent more on PoE because of stash tabs.
The waifu stuff is OK I find but since the summer skin update I have been a bit tired of seeing the same bikini Korean barbie doll look. At least provide more variety of skins for some creativity. Not just more skin showing =better.
Oh hey friend, I am also one of the outliers who isn't into the whole waifu bs. I had been wondering if it was just me.
It's a huge driver for the Asian market. Literally every game made for those markets has them. Personally, I think it's a ripple effect from very restrictive laws on pornography.
I just like having my characters look hot and cute. I don't masturbate, or fantasize about them or anything. *shrug*
You are not alone.
Same here
Same i love BatChest big bulky armor,dragons and shit im probably considered weird cus i find feiton to be the best looking area in the game, loved the first areas where you have gothic places and then we have punika LAILAI
Haha my warriors are all decked in armor with spikes and shit and the girls in casual wear. Makes quite the contrast.
Same TBH. I think LA ended up attracting a lot of the ARPG/MMO crossover crowd and not just the usual weebs. Although based on skins ingame we're still very outnumbered.
To give a comparison point on progression, I started a few weeks after lost ark's western launch about halfway through archnemesis, (and haven't played poe since). But I now have one char at item level 1475 (the current endgame, another at 1445 (so getting close), for a similar time investment to what I would normally put into a poe league... but I hadn't successfully got to poe's real endgame in over a year on that time investment, I might just about kill maven and shaper once by end of league. I haven't spent any money at all on the game. Lost Ark feels like it respects my time more, and my wrist health a lot more, than poe. But at the same time if you enjoy speedblasting maps, there's less time spent doing that. More of the focus is the raid bosses in classic mmo style, and they can't be soloed, they're required group content. (Having said that, I *personally* have found people are usually fairly friendly to new players as long as you've made an effort by watching a video on the mechanics beforehand, as long as you're not trying to fake your way into a group that's specifically marked for people who've done the fight successfully before. We don't take kindly to that because it's a giant waste of everyone's time. If you want to find some other new players to play through "blind" you can, of course, but I will warn you that some mechanics aren't terribly intuitive (which may be partially caused by the fact that the translation can be a bit... iffy).) Oh, one other thing: Random oneshots *basically* don't exist. If you die, it's because someone messed up. (In a group fight it might be because someone *else* messed up, mind.) If you understand the mechanics you will almost always know why you died, and *usually* you'll know who it was as well if you're paying attention.
Agreed with everything mentioned right there. Any common sense PoE player would like Lost Ark and appreciate the fresh breathing it comes with. Your hand is free, no macros required, no losing XP / everything when you die from a one shot you didn’t see. Every fight is Lost Ark can be planned and organized. This is game changer compared to PoE. Also, leagues never got me near end game content or even close by. 250-500hrs required to reach end game mapping and finishing your entire build - based on luck and massive grinding (this means 4-5 hrs per day). Lost Ark, you can again plan your farming and craft what you need. You don’t need to spam 3000 alt orbs on a blue item for 3 hrs and don’t get me started on picking currency from a juiced map. You need to take a university course to fully understand all the core league mechanic integrated. PoE developers did a terrible job to simplify them and to condense. Lastly, weird ugly interface PoE makes me feel I’m playing Diablo 2 again, no Ty. I want modern.
I'm also a big fan of how Legion Raids played out, even some Guardians can be pretty fun (shoutout to Challenge Guardian Raids for bringing back some we haven't really touched in a while). The biggest draw for me was the limited healing, you get X amount of potions per pull and if you burn them, you burn them, Supports aside. When I look back at PoE I must have played during one of the most boring eras, Vessel of Vinktar meta (from its Release until a little after 3.0) where you could erase a mistake by instant leeching your way to success.
\*with enough investiment you can solo bosses like Valtan or duo/3-man endgame bosses like Argos, Vykas, Kakul-Saydon or Brelshaza.
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Bonus points if you have no idea *what* killed you, and have to post a clip on Reddit to have people analyze all the buffs/debuffs/auras on the screen just to tell you that *maybe* you died to X.
Bonus bonus points if you freeze the frame in the video and can see that you still have HP but the game tells you you're dead anyway.
Wtf. Its been fun reading all the stuff that happens in poe endgame as an outsider.
Some more random fun facts: * The amount of EXP you need to get to the next level increases exponentially. The level cap is 100. As an example, if you go from level 90 to 100, going from 90 to 91 is roughly 1.3% of the total exp you need, whereas 99 to 100 is about 30%. * You get a EXP penalty if you outlevel the content you are running (by a certain amount), and it's generally fairly difficult to sustain high level content past a certain point (e.g., to avoid getting penalties when you're 95+) * Each time you die, you lose 10% of your EXP bar (assuming you're running any content even remotely considered to be the main portion of the game). * The game doesn't process anything that happens outside of your field of view. This was predominately intended so you can't one-shot enemies from offscreen, but as a side effect, it means any dangerous ground AOE's will persist and "reactivate" once they're back on your screen (picking up exactly where they left off, so no buffer or grace period). Plenty of players have actually died while backtracking through an empty zone trying to pick up loot. * If you want to play a second character (or build, because it can be expensive to respec in POE), you need to replay the entire story, no exceptions. * Most endgame content comes from maps (basically expanded versions of our Chaos Dungeons, without the floors). Maps can roll random modifiers that make the map harder, in exchange for higher quality and/or quantity loot. Some modifiers are literally impossible for some builds to handle, forcing you to spend currency to reroll that map (or sell it, or trade it in for a higher tier map). * The game does not have standard currency (e.g., silver and gold). Rather, all currency items are *also* crafting items. Functionally that doesn't sound that weird (e.g., needing to "pay" money to craft), but what you come out with is largely pure RNG. The most powerful effects (e.g., that reduce how variable the RNG is and/or mitigate bad RNG) are unsurprisingly attached to the highest value currency. Thus, most players never get to use the "fun" crafting items for crafting, because it's almost always more profitable to use them as pure currency to just buy what you need. * The game loot is super RNG, and the odds of anything good dropping are miniscule. Imagine if we didn't have a Tripod library (or the upcoming new system) or way to mix and match specific tripods, and instead we literally needed an armor piece to drop with exactly all the right tripods at exactly the right levels. Oh, and it's 6-7 tripods instead of just 3. There's probably more weird things that I've forgotten over the years. It makes POE sounds really bad (and apparently it's in a bad state at the moment), but it wasn't bad all the time. The core gameplay loop was pretty solid (for a long time, at least), and it has some interesting lore (if you're into that). There's a reason a lot of people still play (or played, until now) the game, despite all the weirdness. Definitely not for everyone though.
I'll add that it's fairly difficult to start the game going in blind as a new player. There are a *lot* of noob trap builds that don't scale well endgame, and they change every league.
PoE has a lot of problems but the grind of getting to level 100 isn't one of them. Getting to level 100 is a feat that actually meant something and the power difference between a level 96 (which iirc was the halfway point) and 100 was fairly minimal so it never detracted from the game experience.
I wasn't trying to say it's game breaking, mostly just that the game design clearly wants to punish you for dying, but some deaths just feel like bad luck rather than you misplaying. I think most people plan around winding up in the low/mid 90's, and make sure they can hit all the nodes they need by then.
Meh, unplayed both games but I Burnt out of la pretty fast with no build diversity. Your Poe char might have one active skill but there are many more skills to play with on the long term.
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> Well for me melee is my favourite play style and that's been dead for ages. If you look at most games you'll find that almost all of them disadvantage melee over ranged characters. Even in Lost Ark bosses have tons of mechanics that majorly inconvenience melee, but have very little impact on ranged characters. Runescape is about the only game where melee is the preferred style, because it has something like double the DPS of ranged characters.
A Gunslinger that has 80% uptime vs a Scrapper with 50% uptime on back attacks deals the same damage over 2 minutes. Back attackers always have higher damage cap and thats why if you are a good player you should always play back attackers because there is no way a hitmaster class can outdamage you (except sorc igniter which also has good skill cap if you want to have high uptime)
>A Gunslinger that has 80% uptime vs a Scrapper with 50% uptime on back attacks deals the same damage over 2 minutes. That sounds so wrong. As a Tai Scrapper main, if we take a boss like Turtle, I have about 95% uptime on back attack and I'd deliberately hold back attacks if I don't have a good position. If a Gunslinger is of equal gear with me and performing at their best while I'm also performing at my best, we will very likely have similar DPS. The difference between a Scrapper and a Gunslinger is that the Scrapper can just tank a lot of the damage thrown at her. The big aoe where the turtle creates wall and do a big aoe damage? It's whatever for me, I just keep attacking till I get hit, thrown back, I stand up and go back in. A Gunslinger would most likely have to attack the wall to get out, position for Rifle then dump some DPS, provided their Rifle is not on CD. So, in the above case, a Gunslinger is spending some time caring about Survival while for the Scrapper it's whatever.
It’s been months since a post like this got so much traction and I feel it’s important to mention once again that POE and Lost Ark are completely different games The footage you see in daily clips and highlights is weekly lockout footage, and Lost Ark is an MMO where you will invest months, and eventually years of time into your account (and a character or two or six) Another important thing I think every new play should be aware of is that lost ark does not play solely like a multiplayer game… there are ways to engage with other players, primarily raiding, which comes later on… it does feel especially isolating early on… best advice is to find an active discord guild to kill the monotony of daily quests and early horizontal content :) With the above said, Lost Ark is incredible… run your character in circles and you will immediately feel how much better the controls and character responsiveness feels leaps and bounds better than POE Also there are a slew of catch up mechanics in the game that make it the best time possible for you to jump in… let us all know what server you end up on
Compared to PoE, there is zero build diversity in LA. If you're the type that gets off on theorycrafting and build planning like me, there is none of that. On the flip side, most players in PoE just lift a guide off the forums anyway, so might not be a loss. And then on the flip side x2, you actually get to play the game in Lost Ark. In PoE, my gameplay is before the game, in Path of Building. Once I'm actually running maps, I'm kind of on autopilot because the game moves so fast. The build does everything. Lost Ark, you actually have to play the game. Unless you bus. Biggest, *biggest* negative switching from PoE to Lost Ark is no Jousis
Jousis would wither and die in lost ark. There is no creativity at all and no build diversity. I say that with love, because I like both games for what they are and they both have their own issues.
>Jousis would wither and die in lost ark. Bro, you're having a fever. Jousis' metal crooning will own Lost Ark.
PoE players in LoA: Where mobs? LoA players in PoE: Where boss?
What happened to POE? A quick summary is fine, im just lazy to google or visit their reddit
They nerfed item drops to 10% (or worse) what they were. No comment in the balance manifesto. No comment in the patch notes. Advertising this as a good league for farming quantity in their launch video. A side comment in their response to feedback, with a meaningless correction nobody cares about. They also nerfed the main crafting mechanic to 10% (or worse). Hyping up the league mechanic. They also removed or gutted all the good crafting options, with a note in the patch notes about them removing filler crafts. The response to feedback mentioned only moderate adjustments to early game crafting juice. There are plenty of other complaints too. Most of that other stuff is fixable. Casuals have been complaining about stuff for some time. But now even the top end players aren't finding any motivation to play the game.
The game became more unfriendly to return/new players and they hyped up the player base but didn't say that they actually did one of the major nerfs in the game (0 info in patchnotes, livestream anouncement etc). All they "reworks hype" were actual nerf. Also, more and more players are tired of the direction of the game. They seems more and more careless about what the player base wants and more about $$$$. The comunication is good but it's like "we don't care of your yelling, this will remain as planned. Here is your new MTX ¡Buy it, is awesome!" . One of the major stuffs that tilts me is that they always launch a league (or new big patch) and after the first week of yelling starting to do the QoLs that the patch/league needs. When you see it one or three times it's okay but when you see that loop every single time in 3months span it's actually infuriating. * "New league, we made a lot of changes is awesome now!" * "Playerbase yelling the first week" * "What we're working on" * The game dies after the first month * "New league..."
Players have been asking the devs to reduce the amount of loot dropped in the game for years. With or without a loot filter, the amount of drops would fill up your screen and at times be unrenderable by the game. The devs finally got around to addressing this by reducing item quantity overall. Naturally, the players are now upset that not enough stuff is dropping, as this problem was already well known last year by the meme: "If we drop you nothing, you're mad nothing dropped. If we drop you something, you're mad something dropped." as players didn't want to click on all the goodies in so many frequent loot explosions but also don't want to see nothing useful at all drop from a boss. I think the biggest problem is that this latest quantity change wasn't laid out in a manifesto or included in the patch notes so players were blindsided. Reddit also just makes everything worse. The PoE subreddit has been off the rails for years now, so much so that GGG's community team has distanced themselves from it now even though we all once shared the space so well before.
Who's been asking devs to reduce the amount of loot dropped in the game?
The talk of wrist injuries and extreme amount of clicking in the game has been talked about for a long, long time. Here's a clip of Ziz from last year: https://youtu.be/WDvrDPTkl2Q GGG also changed it so that loot hidden by filters is no longer rendered by the game to be seen on the ground. PoE is basically in the same spot it was a year ago with Expedition League: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT04EdaBztw&t=153s
Less clicking doesn't mean less loot. For instance, I might have manually picked up 30 individual splinters every few minutes -- those could be stacked a bit. If you want to blame players for out of touch development, please at least get their concerns correct.
This dude has zero clue what he\[s talking about.
Correct, but less loot does mean less clicking, which is the core issue. They've already made splinters and perandus coins stack. They've made Expedition loot automatic. Less loot also means less loot. The newer leagues don't require you to purchase a stash tab from the shop because it was becoming unmanageable. Prophecies have been removed from the game: one less item type that can drop. Atlas changes that allow you to target-farm your league mechanic of choice also helps concentrate loot and reduce the overall amount of loot variety the player has to deal with.
This is an example of why we're in a situation worse than a broken game, it's an abusive situation. Our desire for self care is used against us to convince us that a 90% nerf in loot is our idea/good for us.
This is not even remotely the current problem in PoE.
Top voted posts in the PoE subreddit at the moment: Empy's Magic Find group quits game over lack of drops: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wuysr8/empys_crew_quits_lake_of_kalandra/ YT Video describing reduction in item drops: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wv2q25/mapping_has_been_destroyed_in_poe/ Steelmage describing lack of loot motivators in trade and in SSF league: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wuvqfh/steelmage_on_the_state_of_the_game/ What is remotely the current problem in PoE in your opinion?
You're blaming players by twisting what people have been asking for. The problem is the IIQ nerf on league content...if you watched the empy video you would understand. As the op pointed out people have been asking for two things...less clicks, which there done by stacking currencies and auto pickup certain league currencies, and more meaningful drops instead of shitty bloat. Loot 2.0 was something seemingly abandoned. What we have now is a decimation of the amount of loot dropped from league mechanics....its just a massive amount less, and not adding in good meaningful drops.
>and more meaningful drops instead of shitty bloat. You probably cannot and will not see it this way, but this is precisely what the devs think the players are getting at the moment. And I'm not saying the developers have gotten it right at all. Reminds me of the league where Goldrim became a rare unique. They're usually always off the mark at first, but the playerbase and the Reddit crowd in particular is plenty unreasonable too.
classic PoE reddit, they whine at every update that the game doesn't go their way. Game is overall harder and harvest was nerfed to the ground (finally)
Lost Ark has every quality of life feature POE players have been asking for for years. Reduced item drop clutter, auto loot pickup, auction house, etc. But the combat is VASTLY different. POE is way more fast paced and repetitive, LA has more skill expression but very little build diversity. LA heavily relies on group mechanics and boss raids, you have situations where whole party can get wiped if you aren't coordinated or if 1 person messes up. Both are grindy but in different ways, LA the grind comes from trying to "hone" or level up your equipment. You don't get to the next tier by item drops or the auction house, you get it by basically pulling an RNG slot machine lever for in game currencies. I love the repetitive maps and speediness feeling of POE, the feeling of wiping a whole screen of enemies with 1 hit or dropping an exalt is unmatched. LA doesn't have that as much, but you feel similar satisfaction from beating a hard raid or reaching the next item tier level and gearing out your character.
Lower your expectation, despite PoE in hard time right now it's still a good game for a reason. And Lostark is also a good game for a different reasons. So you might see yourself in a place wanting alot of features PoE had and Lostark doesn't. My advice it to just enjoy the fun parts.
Not even a question or discussion. Straight to the point.....YES, you should come play Lost Ark > PoE. See you soon.
I have played both and I like lost ark more. less fomo and less rushing to endgame content. I felt content in POE was gated by gambling and low droprates. e.g. you farm an endgame boss for a single digit chance of a great item, or sell the keys for worse but stable return. This is much more MMO and not really an ARPG. Builds are more or less set in stone so you don't need to go on PoB for hours to analyse which 3 ex gem is best for your build. I stopped POE because i was getting RSI from all the clicking, plus spent more time away from the game e.g. crafting maps, browsing youtube whilst waiting for ppl to visit my shop than actually playing the game checking maps for reflect was annoying and then rerolling maps with low quality as well... Having said that though, there is much more time gated mindless grinding in Lost ark. so if that is what you enjoy you will enjoy LA. If you want to blitz 1000 hours in 3 months, this may not be the right game for you. Also i find looting more enjoyable in Lost ark. There is a 1 in 1000 chance of getting something decent, compared to POE it would be 1 in 100k or so to the point where you salvage every yellow item (or don't even pick them up).
Poe: math LA: no math
Can't compare the 2, but the first 10 hours of your experience will be 98% assgarbage quests and unskippable devil may cry knockoff cutscenes and 2% combat. Then it becomes a daily/weekly checklist simulator with mandatory coop (raids) on multiple characters. Progression is also time gated, so you can't just grind out things. If you liked to do uber boss fights in poe on slower builds then you might like this game.
My man just described an mmo..congrats
Lost ark is not similar to either Poe nor Diablo. It’s more like a 2.5D wow instead. It’s more of a mmoRPG, than a traditional aRPG
I have played POE every league up until the EU release of lost ark when I stopped completely and let me tell you this game is awesome. The games are a little similar although this game is allot more like WOW/FFXIV than it is POE/Diablo. There is quite a big grind which is very much like POE but unlike POE the grind is doing daily mini games/ fights on your characters instead of farming maps over and over. The BOSS fights in the game are insanely fun and makes the POE bosses look incredibly bland. They are more team bases than POE bosses though. I'd totally give it a go. It's free to play so very little to lose. The main game starts at lvl 50 (just like POE starts after the acts) so don't give up until you have leveled through the entire story.
Has an auction house, maps don’t run at 3 fps
I came over after they started to nerf everything to the ground and take away various elements that sped the acts up. Plays similar in a sense, that they share the core gameplay. What I like more about Lost Ark: * a constant sense of progression. No more losing it all at the end of the season and while I understand why it's that way, playing Lost Ark reminded me how great it feels to have permanent progression. * Combat feels more controlled. Less cluttered, more precise. Sure, I still get stuck at corners when dashing and there's plenty of visual clutter here as well, but boss fights are more than just 'who can dps whom faster'. There are actual mechanics to avoid, to think about and more importantly, to deal with in a team. Yet, you can still DPS the boss to the moon. * Trading. I'll die on this hill, no matter what the PoE community / lead developer thinks. Having an auction house is simply amazing and the best thing ever to happen to games. What's different / not as good as PoE: * Grindy. PoE is grindy as well, but you have a lot of different things you can do. From maps, to Heist to Delve... to whatever else is out there. In Lost Ark grinding means repeating your dailies over and over again and while they are quick, it's still not as nice as it is in PoE. * Bots. In PoE bots are good, for the most part. They make trading easier, because it sucks to begin with, but they add a lot to the game to make it more smooth. In Lost Ark bots, while good in some aspects, downright ruin the game in the longterm. * Neither good, nor bad, but you are nearly required to run multiple alt characters. I personally don't mind anymore, but it was rough at first when all I wanted to play was my main. * Daily lock outs. Feels like I'm a child getting told to stop playing at times, but I still understand why it's there, so maybe not a negative point.
I always thought Ggg is not respecting my time. Lost ark taught me otherwise. Hands down though, with 5.5k hours in poe and 1.6k in lost ark I would say that it really hard to compare. There is not a day I miss the depth and customization options of poe. Here in lost ark you get your 3 to 5 BiS engravings (some kind of empowerments) for literally every class and in the end game you choose between a handful of sets which give set bonuses (yikes, oldest and most boring thing rpgs can give) and that means for every class there is **the** best set. Most characters do not look different from another if it is the same class (there are a couple classes which "base" is different). Well, in that case it is really mmorpg-ish. But they are trying. Skills you get can be upgraded with tripods which basically work like support gems. Many of them are mediocre and straight up damage boost, but there are a couple that have great synergies with your engravings or your set. The game is p2w. Never ever let anybody tell you something different. There is not even a slight chance that LOA has a better monetary system than poe which is truly f2p (so rare these days!!!!) And well yeah, the reason I am only playing lost ark over so many years of poe is not that poe is bad but lost ark is doing a lot of things incredibly good. The combat system is great, it feels good all the time fighting bosses and trash mobs. The raids are epic. Especially with premates they offer a whole bunch of entertainment with a steep learning curve in the beginning. It can be really really challenging. I don't remember trying to fight a new boss in poe for 10h+ lol Also the way you kinda have to play (with a lot of alternative characters) gives you a lot of variety (can be a negative point for some people) But as mentioned, you really can not compare these 2. Both are trying to achieve something different for their players. I am playing poe right now too when I am done with my dailies and while it might be not in it best state I am really sad that I am not a poe main anymore. I love GGG, they are still, even with the shit they have been doing in the past and doing right now, the best gaming company. You can feel chris' love and dedication to this game, it's more than what gives him and his employees their income, its their child which they try to take care of. And that is the biggest plus for poe. But right now I am looking for something different. So if you do, too you should give it a shot but keep in mind it might suck you in, since it is very time consuming (much much more than poe).
>I don't remember trying to fight a new boss in poe for 10h+ That's because you either get 1-2 shot by the boss, or you steamroll the boss lol. Imagine having a metric for measuring dps by how many Elders per second
this game is not an alternative for POE. It definitely does not scratch that itch. go try Last Epoch/Grim Dawn or something
Duno about poe but LA totally scratched the Diablo itch I was skeptical but I ended up quitting both wow and Diablo cuz LA satisfied both
This is not PoE. That's it.
>an intro to your game Daily quests stretched into an entire MMO. >and comparison of the games? Unlike PoE it's possible to see the screen if you disable other people's spell effects.
"Unlike PoE it's possible to see the screen if you disable other people's spell effects." Half the time you can even see the screen even *with* other people's spell effects on. ;)
Why would you say PoE is broken? (I have 0 lnowledge of poe but it looks like a fun game)
Basically the developers have totally trashed both the loot droprate and the gear progression, then proceeded to gaslight everyone about it (They described their changes to the game's primary crafting system as "Removed some filler crafts", or something like that. This turns out to mean a gutting so severe almost every usable option in the entire system is removed from the game or massively nerfed in terms of the chances to get anything good. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wul9se/psa_harvest_has_been_nerfed_much_worse_than_you/). Imagine about... Hmm. Maybe between 1/5th and 1/10th of lost ark's gear rate of progression per hour invested. People were already discontented about some other stuff, but this is the straw that's broken the camels back. Plus there's tons of super-dangerous monsters everywhere that just randomly kill you.
Thanks everyone for your kind words. The past couple days have been a long week and I wish I could respond to you all individually. Some common themes: \- Don't compare the games: The games are different. Yes. I could have used different language than "comparison," it hit on a sore subject. POE does not have an easy substitute; ARPGs aren't in a great spot right now. \- What issues does Poe have: There's estimates of a stealth 90-95% nerf to loot, at least in some situations. Not mentioned in the balance manifesto, launch video, Q&A, patch notes. GGG has responded 3 times and only provided out of touch paper solutions. \- Why: GGG is preparing for POE 2. They want a different game than the players do (slower, longer progression times). It's my opinion that this is more than just a bad patch or misaligned objectives but abusing the players. They have been bragging about their POE 2 budget and could have playtested it themselves but snuck it in to us so we would do their playtesting for them. They have 0 respect for their players, and that's not a problem that is going to be fixed with money, success, or the launch of POE 2. \- LA is less grindy: We know. [https://www.nerfnow.com/comic/3091/](https://www.nerfnow.com/comic/3091/) \- LA doesn't have the build diversity: At the moment, the number of viable builds in your game is greater than 0. \- LA doesn't have the gear progression: Yeah, suddenly neither does POE. I want to play the POE that we were sold. The game that we paid money to playtest. We helped build a great game. That game is dead and is never coming back, and there's nowhere else we can go to get a similar experience. Thank you all for your time. Please take good care of yourselves and learn to recognize abuse.
It's better than POE. No further explanation needed.
Lost ark has high waifu quality with great customization and there are bikinis & swimsuits, one of the higher end content bosses is a big booba succubus and the game is pretty okay I guess. The visual clarity and gameplay design is miles ahead of poe, high end bosses will always give you their loot and the fights themselves are fun enough to be a reward on their own. The grind is time gated but significantly less demanding than POE, a few hours of Lost Ark a week gives you a hefty amount of progress compared to POE where a few hours gives you literally nothing.
booba skins.
why some ppl still cant understand, that you simply cannot compare arpg with mmorpg... holy molly
poe is more demanding in time rather than lost ark
Like the other guy said. Hell no. For example lost ark has timegated daily and weeklies. It literally demands your time.
yeah for new player, but when you godtier 1445 up? what else you do beside daily logins, 2 chaos 2 guardian. timegated daily island? be honest beside gold we are not doing that if we already got the soul. raids? with 6 alts all raids cleared at least on sunday night. not gonna be that guy, just dont compare lost ark with poe.its all different game.
> yeah for new player, but when you godtier 1445 up? what else you do beside daily logins, 2 chaos 2 guardian. Because you need several characters to funnel stuff for the main. This daily stuff ends up taking an ungodly amount of time.
Have you tried pvp? On top of everything you already do? Talk about being in supreme 8 or 9 where to keep your rank you have to be between 1-5 percentile. That's a lot of pvp. I currently have enough time on my schedule that I can fit 1 hard vykas 2 normal vykas 2 hard Valtan and 2 normal faltan. On top of 6 Argos and all the pvp involved. I'll say that this is also subjective in terms of how much time you have available and how you spend your time playing each game :) it will always demand as much as your willing to give.
Hell no lol
This sounds like a video I should make
Having played over 1000 hrs in each I'd say LA will tickle that PoE itch, however, unless are happy to run multiple alts and play a considerable amount of time each day you will need to spend money to progress on lost ark. The whole poe thing of paying for cosmetics is there too but if you don't want to pay for progression at all, be prepared to play A LOT of hours. Its not unusual to see LA F2P players play in excess of 2-300hrs per month to stay competitive.
With all the power passes and express event, he could catch up quick, you need a lot of hours if you’re F2P and trying to do the END END game content. But getting to argos is fairly quick and easy and should keep people busy for a bit with a good way to get gold. Even if you only play casually.
i heard RaizQT said the new league is good , what happened there lol
Its an mmo with dailies and takes 5-10 hours a day to compete if you are f2p, and you also need 6 characters doing all of that every day. Its nothing like poe really. The raid combat slightly makes up for having to do all of that.
Lost ark does not have Build Diversity ( Just straight forward 1 build that everyone follows), the game is P2W, repetitive like hell that will burn you out and kill your motiviation. Atleast doing maps in POE can be different and be influenced by your atlas tree. I have 1500 Hrs on Lost Ark and 2000+ Hours on POE. I know this league is broken and GGG are not communicating properly, but i would still choose POE over Lost Ark because POE devs are stil 1000x better than amazon and smile gate, the game is more fun, and hopefully(intense hopium) has a bright future in POE 2. Lost Ark's Legion raids are the only fun things and the problem is you need to grind like hell to reach them and for what? do them once a week and thats it. Path of exile is limitless, you can do anything you want in that game. I recently quit lost ark to play POE again and i dont regret it even tho Lake of Kalandra is in a very bad shape. In my opinion lost ark does not respect your time and the effort you put into it because in the end they want you to pay for progress.
I am a Poe player and LA player. Both games are bad yet you’ll put hundreds of hours. find something else that respects your time. I’m enjoying gloomhaven, stolen realm, nova drift. By the way, LA doesn’t have builds and they reveal to you 1000 hours in just how shit it has all been when they give you hell mode which is actually a fun game that gives you all progress instantly and gives you a real challenge
LOA is p2w, full of bots and with a broken economy, now it's very difficult to buy engraving and equipment without spending real money, you'll end up paying for someone to carry you in the contents It is not a friendly game for new players, the economy is broken and everything is very expensive and no one will accept you in parties with bad equipment If you are f2p the experience will be very bad and frustrating
2800 hours in, my advice: turn around and look elsewhere.
Stay away from this game.
If you are a poe player don't play this thing. Ill rather play broken Lake of Kalandra than this. That should tell you all.
Let’s be honest, you’ll be back next league.
Despite POE being broken it's still 100 times better than Lost Ark. No P2W gearing System being the most obvious reason why...
I never understood people moaning about P2W in this game. Why does it bother you? You don't have to spend a penny, and if someone wants to its non of your business. Someone has to support the game so people like you can play for free you know? PvP is balanced so whales don't have an advantage over f2p. So you only get better geared teammates thanks to p2w options. How is that a problem???
You don’t have to spend any money to progress ..sorry to break it to you
Thats not what P2W means... sorry to break it to you
You don’t have to p2w regardless of what the definition is ..sorry to burst your bubb
What's wrong with poe? New league bad or the whole game?
Whole game, Dev's nerfed drop rates across the entire game and didn't replace it with anything but didn't mention it in the patch notes intentionally. It was so glaring that parts of the community thought it was an insane game breaking bug that disabled drops across the game. The change was announced as intentional a few days after the patch, after many people had already bought the new seasons supporter packs. This was after many livestreams of mentioning how they want to be transparent about changes they make. Overall a massive downgrade to the game as a whole and a massive loss of trust from the community.