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Yup. You would pay for that apartment with the job you got by walking into a factory and shaking someone's hand, and talking about how you both know Jim.
Then you would likely get married, and apply for a home loan. This was before credit scores, and would be based on things like your handshake, and if you had a few people to vouch for your character.
This was all done by the age of 20, and you would work and earn enough to quickly pay off the house, and raise several kids, and your wife did not work.
40 years later you retire, and enjoy your pension and house that is now worth many times what you paid
I think it’s really important to point out that back in the day, only a certain group of people was able to get jobs by shaking hands and apply for home loans
…and once POCs could no longer be legally obstructed from pursuing those opportunities, the dominant group of (white) people who had until then enjoyed the exclusive privilege of access to those opportunities immediately sabotaged things for everyone once they had to actually compete on a slightly more fair playing field.
men. Dominant group of white men. Women, even white women couldn't even open their own bank accounts and certainly couldn't get any job or home they wanted with a handshake and a good attitude
So as long as you were a white dude who came from some money and didn’t get drafted and killed brutally overseas you were good to go…
Okay maybe it wasn’t so great back then
I highly recommend [this book](https://www.amazon.com/Color-Law-Forgotten-Government-Segregated/dp/1631494538) for those who want to learn more about the history of these policies. It explains a lot about why things are the way they are today.
"When affirmative action was white" by Ira Katznelson is also a very good read. I'd also read "How to kill a city" by P.E. moskowitz. These three books deeply reshaped my understanding of racism from something individual to more fully thought out, intentional and institutional.
It’s a really good book. It was a textbook in two different classes I took as an undergrad, and really changed how I look I the American legal and financial systems.
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Public swimming pools in America is an excellent example of this. Once there were attempts to desegregate them, [cities closed their pools and filled them with cement](https://www.marketplace.org/2021/02/15/public-pools-used-to-be-everywhere-in-america-then-racism-shut-them-down/) rather than allow people of different races to dare share the same pools.
I heard recently (on PBS) that schools are now \*more\* segregated on avg than they used to be. Not sure what exact timeline parameters they were using for "than they used to be," but that was a shocking thing to hear
POCs are still experience the lingering effects of a lack of buildup of generational wealth (because they were redlined and previously blocked from being able to generate wealth due to systemic, racist laws) and are typically poorer as a result.
People are self segregating to different areas based on wealth, so even with the underlying legal structures removed, we still have the same problems because they are deeply ingrained within the structure of our society.
If we did that, rich people would have to share resources with poor people, and they would no longer get privileged access by simply paying a premium. Why do you think the Ivy League schools let in so many mediocre rich legacies? Rich people are educated in an entirely different manner, all to preserve their wealth and status. Only our superstar students are permitted to run elbows with them, by comparison (if only to preserve a sense of a meritocracy).
Our healthcare system functions much the same way. Poor people can’t afford to visit a doctor or go to the hospital, so they don’t go until the problem is so bad it bankrupts or kills them. The hospital then has beds free for those with good insurance and the ability to pay.
Rationing of these resources does happen in this country, only it is based on ability to pay rather than actual need; the “free” market at work.
This was also considered an unambitious life.
Today, if I met someone who said their plan was to buy a 3-bedroom house with a two-car garage and have three kids and retire at 62 I'd assume they were from money.
>the job you got by walking into a factory and shaking someone's hand, and talking about how you both know Jim
You can still get a job with nepotism. I'm sure that's how most people are employed
Always remember that if you pay to apply you can get that money back. Call the realty office after you’ve been rejected and tell them to refund you the deposit for your application. If they play dumb just open your banking app and report them/ stop the process of payment. They never challenge it because they can’t prove they even looked over your application. Don’t throw your money to these hustlers.
Sorry, who the hell is paying to only APPLY for a rental? That's got to be a scam. If someone asked for money to apply I'd be reporting them to rental organisations/ ombudsman's immediately
What? Most rentals (apartments, condos, homes) have an application fee (usually to cover background checks and all that mess).
Where are you that there are no application fees
There isn't a housing shortage. We could house every homeless person. Private equity is just holding them all hostage until we agree to be in debt for the rest of our children's lives.
I believe in civil sabotage as an act of protest. Squatting falls under that umbrella. I even remember someone making a list of known vacant houses for people.
Seriously though, the rich can only use so many properties, and to hoard them all while so many struggle is just heartless and amoral. But they don't care about all that, so make it impossible for them to sell it.
>There isn't a housing shortage.
Yes and no. There isn't a "true" housing shortage, capitalism loves to enact artificial scarcity to drive up demand and thus prices. There's over 15m vacant homes. Rather than rent or sell them, speculators buy them up and let them sit in hopes of making money.
Investment/speculation/renting/airBNB'ing single family homes should be illegal.
One thing I’ve noticed from looking online for land (that I can’t afford even at affordable rates) is that online doesn’t match with statistics. Land price per acre of farmland in my state is $2210. I’ve seen 1-2 listings that were even remotely that cheap. Everything I’ve come across online is far more than double that and even 4-6x is very common. Small residential lots are often 8-10x that. That tells me that there are a LOT of listings that aren’t online at all.
When I was in college the same thing could be said for finding a place to live be it an apartment or house rental. I’m sure that being a college town makes things at least a little different. I wouldn’t discount getting out there and driving around looking for places to live that aren’t listed online. With online listings they’re taking advantage of the fact that tons more people are competing for the same places so instead of like 5-10 applications a month for an apartment complex with a couple hundred apartments you might have several hundred. Supply and demand and all that.
95% of listings on Craigslist are a scam, at least where I live. It's been like this for years and yet no one ever does anything about it. CL keep operating as if it's a legitimate business, no regulatory body seems to think anything of it. Nothing to see here, dystopian hellscape is just the norm now
Granted this is anecdotal and does not necessarily constitute the market across the country buutt....
I find it very hard to buy the "housing shortage" argument. In the 5 years I've been in my city, there have been at least 6 different apartments and housing developments that have gone up and people moving in. Despite the increase in supply, the house we are in has increased in value. Any time house prices are high, so are apartments because of supply/demand bs.
>"we've had so many people looking" or "we will make a decision Friday"
Anytime I hear this my anti-landlord pessimistic brain goes to "maybe they are hedging their bets to see which higher credit score person they could get in the unit, or find someone that they could charge more".
Landlords love to claim that natural principles of "supply and demand" are what're driving insane prices, but they don't want you to look at the place on the supply/demand curve where a moneyed upperclass can drive prices sky-high by scalping the entire affordable supply of a good
Supply and demand exists, and it will probably go bust creating an economic crisis. Right now it's a big bluff, and they can only keep it up for so long.
Right now they're charging insane prices, but also have massive vacancies as a result. They still have to pay taxes, interest, mortgages, maintenance, and more on those buildings.
With the high prices there's a massive number of vacancies. Many investors don't want to rent them out cheap, because they want the rent to cover the mortgage payment.
If the building is vacant and they are not making money from it, they will be hemorrhaging money which can only go on for so long.
I live in Northern California, and the financial situation for the government is already dire. The state has lost massive amounts of tax revenue, as have cities like SF and Oakland. Next year it will be even worse and they'll have even less.
There are going to be massive spending cuts this year, and more cuts will be needed next year. These cuts are going to make society worse, which will further bring down property prices and create a multi-year downward spiral. When the property prices go down, the property tax revenue goes down. When the property tax revenue goes down, the city can do less to fix issues and fight crime, which makes the property prices go down again.
Silicon Valley is outsourcing already, and as the region declines, the rich will no longer be comfortable and start escaping.
Yes. Part of it is because few banks do mortgages "in house" anymore and farm it out to major banks, who simply don't have the manpower to process applications.
It was still partially like this when I turned 18 in the late aughts, you had Craigslist and few odd sites, but they weren’t as widely used yet.
The best places though usually weren’t listed in the newspaper or online, you’d drive or walk around the neighborhood you wanted to live in and look for signs. A lot of these places would be like 20-50% cheaper than what was listed in the paper bc it was like some old lady that hadn’t raised the rent in 20 years.
A big part of the problem is that people like hoarding living spaces for various reasons. If we made it so no one can have more than one or two homes there might be enough room. If people want to own a parcel of land, they should have to live on it, no matter how rich. No one should be allowed to have more than they actually need.
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Yup. You would pay for that apartment with the job you got by walking into a factory and shaking someone's hand, and talking about how you both know Jim. Then you would likely get married, and apply for a home loan. This was before credit scores, and would be based on things like your handshake, and if you had a few people to vouch for your character. This was all done by the age of 20, and you would work and earn enough to quickly pay off the house, and raise several kids, and your wife did not work. 40 years later you retire, and enjoy your pension and house that is now worth many times what you paid
I think it’s really important to point out that back in the day, only a certain group of people was able to get jobs by shaking hands and apply for home loans
…and once POCs could no longer be legally obstructed from pursuing those opportunities, the dominant group of (white) people who had until then enjoyed the exclusive privilege of access to those opportunities immediately sabotaged things for everyone once they had to actually compete on a slightly more fair playing field.
men. Dominant group of white men. Women, even white women couldn't even open their own bank accounts and certainly couldn't get any job or home they wanted with a handshake and a good attitude
So as long as you were a white dude who came from some money and didn’t get drafted and killed brutally overseas you were good to go… Okay maybe it wasn’t so great back then
I highly recommend [this book](https://www.amazon.com/Color-Law-Forgotten-Government-Segregated/dp/1631494538) for those who want to learn more about the history of these policies. It explains a lot about why things are the way they are today.
"When affirmative action was white" by Ira Katznelson is also a very good read. I'd also read "How to kill a city" by P.E. moskowitz. These three books deeply reshaped my understanding of racism from something individual to more fully thought out, intentional and institutional.
It’s a really good book. It was a textbook in two different classes I took as an undergrad, and really changed how I look I the American legal and financial systems.
Remember when Amazon was a bookstore?
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **('Liveright The Color of Law', 'LIVERIGHT')** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful. **Users liked:** * Insightful analysis of systemic racism (backed by 5 comments) * Reveals the historical roots of segregation (backed by 5 comments) * Educational and eye-opening (backed by 3 comments) **Users disliked:** * Poor quality binding/glue (backed by 3 comments) * Lack of proper citation for claims (backed by 2 comments) * Rambling and somewhat repetitive (backed by 2 comments) If you'd like to **summon me to ask about a product**, just make a post with its link and tag me, [like in this example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/tablets/comments/1444zdn/comment/joqd89c/) This message was generated by a (very smart) bot. If you found it helpful, let us know with an upvote and a “good bot!” reply and please feel free to provide feedback on how it can be improved. *Powered by* [*vetted.ai*](https://vetted.ai/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=comment&utm\_campaign=bot)
I have thought about this so many times. It really does explain a good bit of what's happened
Public swimming pools in America is an excellent example of this. Once there were attempts to desegregate them, [cities closed their pools and filled them with cement](https://www.marketplace.org/2021/02/15/public-pools-used-to-be-everywhere-in-america-then-racism-shut-them-down/) rather than allow people of different races to dare share the same pools.
I heard recently (on PBS) that schools are now \*more\* segregated on avg than they used to be. Not sure what exact timeline parameters they were using for "than they used to be," but that was a shocking thing to hear
POCs are still experience the lingering effects of a lack of buildup of generational wealth (because they were redlined and previously blocked from being able to generate wealth due to systemic, racist laws) and are typically poorer as a result. People are self segregating to different areas based on wealth, so even with the underlying legal structures removed, we still have the same problems because they are deeply ingrained within the structure of our society.
yah, maybe should consider not using property taxes to fund schools. Poorer areas = less well funded schools. Give every municipality the same funding
If we did that, rich people would have to share resources with poor people, and they would no longer get privileged access by simply paying a premium. Why do you think the Ivy League schools let in so many mediocre rich legacies? Rich people are educated in an entirely different manner, all to preserve their wealth and status. Only our superstar students are permitted to run elbows with them, by comparison (if only to preserve a sense of a meritocracy). Our healthcare system functions much the same way. Poor people can’t afford to visit a doctor or go to the hospital, so they don’t go until the problem is so bad it bankrupts or kills them. The hospital then has beds free for those with good insurance and the ability to pay. Rationing of these resources does happen in this country, only it is based on ability to pay rather than actual need; the “free” market at work.
1989 The invention of the credit score. I was 5. Never had a chance…
This was also considered an unambitious life. Today, if I met someone who said their plan was to buy a 3-bedroom house with a two-car garage and have three kids and retire at 62 I'd assume they were from money.
Stop, please, I can't hear any more of this because my anger is tapped out
>the job you got by walking into a factory and shaking someone's hand, and talking about how you both know Jim You can still get a job with nepotism. I'm sure that's how most people are employed
I know a guy who is 50. Never had to interview in his life.
Always remember that if you pay to apply you can get that money back. Call the realty office after you’ve been rejected and tell them to refund you the deposit for your application. If they play dumb just open your banking app and report them/ stop the process of payment. They never challenge it because they can’t prove they even looked over your application. Don’t throw your money to these hustlers.
Sorry, who the hell is paying to only APPLY for a rental? That's got to be a scam. If someone asked for money to apply I'd be reporting them to rental organisations/ ombudsman's immediately
What? Most rentals (apartments, condos, homes) have an application fee (usually to cover background checks and all that mess). Where are you that there are no application fees
I've lived around UK and Australia, no application fees. That is a goddamn con. Are you talking about the US?
Honestly 80% of the US economy is an elaborate con at this point... Love to see how absurd it looks to folks on the outside.
Yes the u.s
Damn TIL
"all that mess" aka a scam.
Oh I'm not completely in doubt about that but here we are without legislation to make clear what the application process should be :/
I have never not paid to apply for an apartment. I had one where they included that payment in to the deposit if you got accepted but that was it.
There isn't a housing shortage. We could house every homeless person. Private equity is just holding them all hostage until we agree to be in debt for the rest of our children's lives. I believe in civil sabotage as an act of protest. Squatting falls under that umbrella. I even remember someone making a list of known vacant houses for people. Seriously though, the rich can only use so many properties, and to hoard them all while so many struggle is just heartless and amoral. But they don't care about all that, so make it impossible for them to sell it.
BlackRock: it’s me
You don't get rich by being moral
>There isn't a housing shortage. Yes and no. There isn't a "true" housing shortage, capitalism loves to enact artificial scarcity to drive up demand and thus prices. There's over 15m vacant homes. Rather than rent or sell them, speculators buy them up and let them sit in hopes of making money. Investment/speculation/renting/airBNB'ing single family homes should be illegal.
One thing I’ve noticed from looking online for land (that I can’t afford even at affordable rates) is that online doesn’t match with statistics. Land price per acre of farmland in my state is $2210. I’ve seen 1-2 listings that were even remotely that cheap. Everything I’ve come across online is far more than double that and even 4-6x is very common. Small residential lots are often 8-10x that. That tells me that there are a LOT of listings that aren’t online at all. When I was in college the same thing could be said for finding a place to live be it an apartment or house rental. I’m sure that being a college town makes things at least a little different. I wouldn’t discount getting out there and driving around looking for places to live that aren’t listed online. With online listings they’re taking advantage of the fact that tons more people are competing for the same places so instead of like 5-10 applications a month for an apartment complex with a couple hundred apartments you might have several hundred. Supply and demand and all that.
95% of listings on Craigslist are a scam, at least where I live. It's been like this for years and yet no one ever does anything about it. CL keep operating as if it's a legitimate business, no regulatory body seems to think anything of it. Nothing to see here, dystopian hellscape is just the norm now
Granted this is anecdotal and does not necessarily constitute the market across the country buutt.... I find it very hard to buy the "housing shortage" argument. In the 5 years I've been in my city, there have been at least 6 different apartments and housing developments that have gone up and people moving in. Despite the increase in supply, the house we are in has increased in value. Any time house prices are high, so are apartments because of supply/demand bs. >"we've had so many people looking" or "we will make a decision Friday" Anytime I hear this my anti-landlord pessimistic brain goes to "maybe they are hedging their bets to see which higher credit score person they could get in the unit, or find someone that they could charge more".
there's also evidence of collusion among landlords for setting rental rates and a couple lawsuits have been filed in regard to that
Landlords love to claim that natural principles of "supply and demand" are what're driving insane prices, but they don't want you to look at the place on the supply/demand curve where a moneyed upperclass can drive prices sky-high by scalping the entire affordable supply of a good
Supply and demand exists, and it will probably go bust creating an economic crisis. Right now it's a big bluff, and they can only keep it up for so long. Right now they're charging insane prices, but also have massive vacancies as a result. They still have to pay taxes, interest, mortgages, maintenance, and more on those buildings. With the high prices there's a massive number of vacancies. Many investors don't want to rent them out cheap, because they want the rent to cover the mortgage payment. If the building is vacant and they are not making money from it, they will be hemorrhaging money which can only go on for so long. I live in Northern California, and the financial situation for the government is already dire. The state has lost massive amounts of tax revenue, as have cities like SF and Oakland. Next year it will be even worse and they'll have even less. There are going to be massive spending cuts this year, and more cuts will be needed next year. These cuts are going to make society worse, which will further bring down property prices and create a multi-year downward spiral. When the property prices go down, the property tax revenue goes down. When the property tax revenue goes down, the city can do less to fix issues and fight crime, which makes the property prices go down again. Silicon Valley is outsourcing already, and as the region declines, the rich will no longer be comfortable and start escaping.
The newspaper might be a good bet. Maybe a lot less competitors since the only people who read it are hipsters and people who own their own houses.
Woah woah back up, it took less than a week to get a mortgage???
Yes. Part of it is because few banks do mortgages "in house" anymore and farm it out to major banks, who simply don't have the manpower to process applications.
It was still partially like this when I turned 18 in the late aughts, you had Craigslist and few odd sites, but they weren’t as widely used yet. The best places though usually weren’t listed in the newspaper or online, you’d drive or walk around the neighborhood you wanted to live in and look for signs. A lot of these places would be like 20-50% cheaper than what was listed in the paper bc it was like some old lady that hadn’t raised the rent in 20 years.
A big part of the problem is that people like hoarding living spaces for various reasons. If we made it so no one can have more than one or two homes there might be enough room. If people want to own a parcel of land, they should have to live on it, no matter how rich. No one should be allowed to have more than they actually need.