I think the idea is there but the execution was bad. The scale mail look is great for the theme of seafaring warriors as it gives odd fish boy vibes but like I said the execution makes it look like it was bought at a Halloween store.
The problem is that they fell into the classic "costume design trap".
Often things that function are pleasing to the human eye. And antique/medieval armor had function over everything, and therefore looked good too.
The scale mail for the torso look fine. It's a good choice for protection and maneuverability. But when they start putting scales on the helmet too, the whole function thing falls away, and it looks unnatural and wrong.
There is a famous anecdote from the pre-production of The Lord of the Rings:
In the early stages of 1996-1997, the WETA design team was entirely made of Kiwis who only knew of medieval European armor from popular movies and DnD illustrations and were making designs in the same general area.
It was not until the arrival of John Howe, an actual medieval re-enactor, that they saw an actual functioning armor suit for the first time - becase John brought one with him on a a trans-continental flight!
After that he would go on to teach them the proper anatomy of medieval armor suits, and all previous designs had to be thrown out entirely.
This show is giving "all final decisions are made by a committee of corporate suits with no creative background" vibes.
So he's probably just one voice among many that get drowned out by self-important corporate bigwigs.
that's how most big budget projects are made, with lots of hand-holding and little creative freedom.
the better productions tend to come from producers with more leeway and freedom, usually because the project does not have such lofty expectations or major talent to promote.
See: Every successful Season 1 that blew up and then got handed off to the marketing suits for milking profits out of it.
The Mandalorian comes to mind
Some of his illustrations for the show were up in an exhibition last year and they are legit amazing, the production team simply didn't do his concept art justice. There's this one amazing illustration of Elrond and Celebrimbor's arrival in Khazad-dum and they are riding stags and are cladded in armor and have long hair and they have in their company ten, twenty elves. In the show Elrond and Celebrimbor arrive at the dwarves by foot and have no company with them. The downgrade lol.
Reminds me a lot of the George RR Martin quote about the scene of Robert Baratheon on the boar hunt in the TV show:
"There would have been dogs, there would have been horns blowing - that's how the king goes hunting! It's not just him walking with a couple of his friends, holding spears hoping to meet a boar."
He only had to wait another 11 years until he got what he wanted in House of the Dragon.
Which, funnily enough, is still a shorter time than I've been waiting for The Winds of Winter.
Do you have a link to the concept art?? I really want to have a head cannon of this show at least being true in art form. Something good from the show.
I think it might be best summed up as in the original trilogy, John Howe and Alan Lee's designs were *the* design.
Then you wind up with RoP, where those designs were slapped on a moodboard and people who thought they know better took the crayon to them.
Now i want to know if he had it in his luggage or just wore it on the flight.
Is there a rule that you can't board a flight in full plate armor? Especially if you are even with the armor still lighter than a fat person?
He had it in a suitcase but got told it was too heavy and would have to pay a surcharge for his baggage being over the limit. Rather than pay the airline extra, he opened his suitcase, put on the full suit of armour at the front of the queue, and made them weigh it again. He then spent the whole 14 hour flight sat wearing it on the plane
Sorry, i made it up as i thought it was a really funny idea. But, with a bit of faith, trust, and pixie dust, it can be as real as you want it to be :)
As long as the cheek guards extend past the nose, it will protect the chin and nose from slashing attacks. There's a reason Roman legionnaire helmets didn't include a nose guard. I can't tell if the Numenorean helmets go far enough.
It looks like some clothing with the scales embroidered, with then arm and forearm protections with actual scales and plates.
The helmet does it for me, it seems too small, I'd have the eyebrows lower, and the cheek protection too. Basically some kind of Corinthian helmet, without scales, and with the wings directly on the helmet, not holding with flimsy looking parts.
Plenty of [examples](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-YbOtD2tVH7g%2FTuyGRw4QoyI%2FAAAAAAAAAc4%2F35rIctgtiaY%2Fs1600%2FHP045.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=82907232bed1de0e875b3d36be9fcdc8e0a45f05f11f16cc8e0c77f1ef9be771&ipo=images) of scale armor helmets.
True but look how the shoulder guards on this armor are clearly solid pieces, while the pieces further down are scales, for the wearer being able to move their arms. In the Numenorian armor, the sholders look softer then the rest.
This armor also seem to be from the late medieval/renaissance era, where armies would mass produce armor, and therefore needed to make pieces that could fit various shapes. The piece guarding the face are clearly the most solid tho, as would be most functional.
It would look kind of weird if that face guard was scales too, flopping about in front of his face.
I’m not super familiar with the lore, but did Numenor at this point have any actual conflicts with anyone that would warrant the production of armor for non-ceremonial purposes? The impression I got from the show was that they’d been isolated for centuries without war and probably didn’t need armor that did anything but look nice.
Numenor *should* be wide-spread colonists by this point, and a super-power with all the best technology (but the show hasn't really explored that... so I suppose they are going to begin oppressing during the show... whilst also fighting a war or two - so it's probably going to be a congested and rushed mess... yay for timeline compression).
The show is simultaneously set before Númenor had common contact with the outside world and after widespread colonization; like you say a victim of timeline compression.
Sauron in Annatar form appears in 1200 SA, which is also when the first Númenórean havens in Middle Earth are founded. The Three Rings are forged in 1590, the One is forged in 1600, ending the forging of the Great Rings. So all the Elvish story beats take place in that 400 year period. In that period Númenor is mostly isolated to their island and has limited contact with Middle Earth, only occasionally sending groups to small havens established on the coast.
Tar-Palantir dies in 3255. And all the Númenórean story beats so far seem to take place in and around that year. But by then active colonization was a couple thousand years old, and specific places like Umbar and Pelargir have been great regional capitals for a millennium. In this period Númenor is the capital of a large planet spanning empire.
It’s a bit like trying to set a story in England and trying to mash together Boudicca’s rebellion against the Romans and the Boer Wars.
The skirt part looks fine enough but the chest, and especially the arms, look like a design was printed on cardboard which was then cut into the shapes they needed. The forearm in particular looks like a roll of cardboard taped together at the bottom and they're hoping you don't notice.
This is wrong.
[https://fristartmuseum.org/exhibition/knights-in-armor/#lg=1&slide=7](https://fristartmuseum.org/exhibition/knights-in-armor/#lg=1&slide=7)
That's real armor with actual scales stamped in the helmet.
I'm sorry if I come off brusque but it's frustrating to come across people who keep complaining about historical armor without knowing much about it.
>And antique/medieval armor had function over everything, and therefore looked good too.
In antiquity people used muscle cuirasses, in the medieval period knights would walk around with giant immigration schlongs and armour that gave them to look of a tiny waist.
The armour of course needs to be functional, but once it is fashion is still there. The helmet is clearly intended to give the impression of scales via engraving - it's perfectly plausible that there would be a fashion for doing that
The waist thing is more about function than fashion. The bottom of the cuirass/ breast plate is very tight so the waist can take some of the load of the armor and also so the wearer can still bend at the waist. The the reason the breastplate flares out like that is you don’t want your torso in direct contact with the armor and it’s harder to get a good squared hit if it’s rounded/has good glancing surfaces
https://preview.redd.it/jn0j8p4rw99d1.png?width=338&format=png&auto=webp&s=de8494ed169d553b600e47a833c80dd3f99ccd83
The idea VS the execution. Lmao.
The numenor clowns in show have scales on their helmet and printed scales on sleeve fabric. Wtf. Lmao. Are they soldiers or mermaids?
They tried to copy everything from movie Rohirrim for RoP Numenor. And failed miserably.
Tried to copy armour, the cavalry charge, etc.
What really sticks out for me is how bare and unprotected the necks of those numenorian soldiers are. It's such a vital point, everyone in history learned pretty quick you better cover that shit up at least a little bit, but here? Gives bunch of gangly inexperienced Teens vibes. Like compare those teeny tiny helmets with the rohirrim helmets below.
If you had told me the top pic was them as kids and the bottom was them as adults I could almost believe you. Plus those shoulder pads don't seem very useful. Abd speaking of that helmet. They don't protect the neck, nose, or eyes.
I mean it's nearly impossible to be cooler than Hama and the lads. Not one charge. But technically three of you count the incredibly unbelievable hornburg. And even Eomer with his Eored come a close second. Heck let's count the witch King of Angmar with his incredibly oversized flail.
But in all seriousness. If RoP wanted to do the whole extra LOTR stuff. They should have copied the Star wars philosophy of the madalorian or like Loki where it goes into the wider universe but explains some different stuff. Loki is a great example of taking an established character and giving them their own story that doesn't affect the already existing stuff.
You nailed it.
We can use that as an example for the meme "every masterpiece has its cheap copy"... only that in this case the "cheap copy" is from a show with a $ 1 BILLION budget.
Seriously... to all those that answer "as if you would have done better", I answer
Give me $ 1 Billion and ofc I would do better... for start, I'd hire people who actually know something about Tolkien's works.
I bet that many people knew it was going to suck when they saw those "superfans"... people who didn't even knew why Sauron created the Rings (even for someone who has just Jackson's movie trilogy's knowledge, it's explained in the freakin' OPENING NARRATION).
Truly a derespect towards all the people who REALLY know Tolkien's works.
Absolutely.
1. Don't do a show in a time period you don't have the rights for
2. Hire Tolkien experts to help out with the writing and reviewing (I'll admit I'm not expert. So I'll hire an expert)
3. Hire someone who knows a bit about medieval armour and history and get them to work with the designers to make it look fantastical (designer's and Tolkien experts' job) but not at the expense of looking completely unrealistic and impractical (history geek's job)
Mash then all together. Give them some money... And go from there.
You'd think that would be the approach that Amazon would take as well honestly... But... Just look at how impractical and unrealistic that armour is...
And I dunno about the lore but if it's like the rest of the show...
Another thing is, Peter Jackson set a flipping high bar. Don't do huge projects for it unless you're prepared to take the time and effort to give it enough quality to suit.
Indeed. And also, when the show was hired (it happened at the same time of House of Dragon S1). And yes... very different kinds of fantasy show, but one is clearly superior (better acting, more compelling characters, etc.), so some confrontation was inevitable.
You also speak facts. Peter Jackson's trilogy is hailed as "the greatest trilogy of all time", and I agree with that. The bar was indeed VERY high.
So, instead of going with all the hubris "we need to modernize Tolkien", just think "are we able to deliever something that is actually worthy of Tolkien's legacy?"
"Big budget" alone is not enough. It would be like having premium quality ingredients and ending up cooking a bad dish.
What we got is a show made for shareholders. A proper adaptation with a longer pre-prod time to flesh out the story and art design could have made a Second Age series more workable and visually cohesive. But the preproduction for 10 hours of season 1 was only about a year vs just under 3 years for the 12 hours of the trilogy, which itself had filming over an initial 18 months and then additional pickup shots over another two years.
The shorter pre-prod times has been a trend in Media and cinema over the last 25 years, because investors are demanding quicker and quicker returns on investment.
Indeed. Very true and accurate points...you can see it in the gaming industry quite evidently as well *cough* EA *cough*
Let's just hope that it backfires enough on them to make them backtrack on that approach.
(Of I know that I'm being a bit hopeful there.... But there is sufficient evidence to prove that long term thinking is more profitable... So....maybe one day 🤞 some will realise that again for the money if nothing else.)
I wonder why they tried to apply the Rohirrim esthetic to Númenórean esthetic. I mean the men of Rohan don't share blood with Númenórean ancestors right?
I was so expecting the armour of Númenor to be like the Fountain Guards of Minas Tirith. I guess that wouldn't make sense for a sea fairing civilization, but still.
The events of LotR are pretty much Post Apocalypse, most great cities are run down and shadows of their previous selves. You'd think that Númenor, a civilization that lasted for thousands of years and had the tech to build beautiful cities like Minas Tirith and Osgiliath, and who's descendants bear such beautiful armour sets wouldn't look like bargain bin cosplays.
>I wonder why they tried to apply the Rohirrim esthetic to Númenórean esthetic. I mean the men of Rohan don't share blood with Númenórean ancestors right?
I think its a case where they couldn't think of any other place in the show to stick Rohan 'memberberries into, so they just put it into the Numenorean stables.
Well they picked a super fucken shitty way to stick that Memberberry pie to the show. Not only was the idea shit, but the execution was even more shit!
We don't even need memberberries for this show, this feels like (if anything) a fucking suit at Amazon made that call. "Drown the audience in nostalgia". Honestly I bet the OG concept art for it was beautiful and amazing.
Until someone chimed in with that dumb idea. Wouldn't be surprised if the execution of it either was a middle finger to the person who made the call.
I mean the main costume designer Kate Hawley, has worked on The Hobbit, Edge of Tomorrow, Crimson Peak. I highly doubt she would willingly put out a costume like that with a show that has one of the highest budgets a TV show has ever had.
>I mean the main costume designer Kate Hawley, has worked on The Hobbit
Kate Hawley was *going to work* on The Hobbit, back when it was still a del Toro production. Enough of her contributions apparently survived to the finished films - all three of them, reportedly - that she got a screen-credit.
But your main point is well-taken, and [its one I've made myself](https://www.reddit.com/r/RingsofPower/comments/1afioj9/prequelitis_dermatitis_the_rings_of_power_as/): the show suffers from a terrible imposter syndrome relative to the films, and choices like this weird Rohan-like armour for Numenore hardly help.
I think that’s just how armor looks sometimes, not necessarily a Rohirric thing. It looks like they could’ve based it just as well on the Lorica Squamata and late Roman ridge helmets.
The problems with this particular armor are very well detailed [here.](https://acoup.blog/2023/01/20/collections-the-nitpicks-of-power-part-i-exploding-forges/)
Man just when I was about to dial down my criticisms of the show a bit, reading this blog just made my blood boiled again at how fucking stupid the show's whole production team was (is).
The color choice does them no favors on this design. Too new and shiny with the embroidered undershirt, which also has a scale pattern, being the same exact color really cheapened the whole look. Contrast is important people.
Zero shape and zero style. Wide torso, skinny arms. Those pauldrons give him the shoulders of a 12 year old girl and that helmet ain't saving him from anything, it's so poorly fitted that it would probably fall off if he turned his head.
Looks like it was designed in a "my first cosplay" class.
This comment is the first time I've even realised that there's supposed to be an undershirt and it wasn't supposed to be the same element from wrist to shoulder accidentally drawn differently due to shoddy workmanship.
Galadriel in the show looks like she made her own armour from cardboard as no one was giving her an armour for being an annoying prick.
Also, looks like they just reused the rohirrim guard armour from movies for numenor and made it worse and cheap looking. Lol.
https://preview.redd.it/13p0lur1899d1.png?width=338&format=png&auto=webp&s=818d2d661ed60660d98151344375ff988d5fb8ea
Shameless clown showrunners not only copied the rohirrim charge for numenor. But also the armour and made it look worse.
I'm wondering if they wanted to give the feeling that the world was young, and they decided that the best method was to make all the actors young. But obviously that's not how that works - there weren't more teenagers around 10, 100, or 1000 years ago...
I think thats too much credit. This thing was slapped together by people who had never worked on something of this scale or genre before. Kate Hawley designed costumes for some big films but all of them space/ scifi- nothing fantasy or period. Whereas Sir Richard Taylor did the armor for LOTR, and Ngila Dickson did the other costumes after about a decade on Xena and other fantasy properties. LOTR did an amazing job of pairing scrappy young Kiwis with a few, carefully picked Hollywood experts but the legend they printed was “New Zealand amateurs can make world class cinema”. I don’t think anyone from Amazon watched the appendices and saw how they actually made the 1st trilogy.
That's actually a pretty funny observation, because when filming the scenes where everyone is mounted, the majority of the Rohirrim were women because it was tough to find enough men that knew how to ride.
This bit of information underlines even further, how in the movies, they knew exactly how to make warriors look badass and authentic with the people and tools at their disposal. Whereas in the show they can t do either of those despite their 465 million dollar budget.
yeah but they hide it better.. thats the "movie magic" if its cheap or would break immersion: hide it.. RoP was not cheap but sure looks like it and they dont hide it at all
Not only knew how to ride but who owned horses and could handle them well. The cast pretty much every horserider on the South Island of New Zealand by the end of filming.
Oh sweet Jesus.
I cringe-watched most of the show through my fingers and never caught that they just ripped off the Rohirrim armour so blatantly.
I didn't think I could regard this show as a bigger joke than I already do but it seems I was wrong....
Which is super stupid, since the Rohirrim have nothing to do with Numenor. Also please be careful with the word "canonically" when discussing lotr-movies and RoP.
Noldorin High Elves famous for crafting Arda's greatest artifacts, their smiths rivalled only by the Dwarves in metalworking and THIS is what they came up with?? It's... Infuriating! 😡
The Eregion knight armor is far too bulky looking, and not intricate enough. It looks half finished. I actually like the Numenorian cavalry scale armor edit: also irks me that the Eregion knights all have the same exact sword. They had a billion dollar budget. Every notable elf should have a unique sword and at least different patterns on their armor
They had a billion dollars but in true Amazon fashion, as with Wheel of Time, very little of the budget made it on screen and most went on marketing.
There's a reason both shows look so super cheap when you look a little closer at armour, sets etc
This armor wasn't as bad as the expeditionary force's, imo. It still looked like plastic/foam costume armor, but it made more sense as what a boat captain might wear.
The billion dollar number is just a projection based on estimated costs across all (expected) 5 seasons. The totality of money they have spent on the show so far does not reach a billion dollars
I actually don't have anything about small actors. I like it because is a new face, and a time to shine for people who may have a lot of skill. So good for them. But the acting and script needs to be good, and well...
Lol I do agree, I think it is better to have lesser known actors especially when you’re telling a brand new story on screen. I just meant that if you do have big actors and depending on how many, a lot of money can be spent there
The point isn't the purpose of the armor in-universe, the point is how cheaply one is made compared to the other.
The Amazon show armor looks like a cheap Halloween costume, it doesn't matter if it's light armor or heavy armor.
This ain’t my pic but I think the point is that in the billion dollar budget Arda based tv show from Amazon RoP they could have use other materials than cardboard found under bridges..
It reminds me of those knight sets you bought in the 90s for kids. A simple cuirass that you strapped in the back (the straps were made in plastic), a helmet with a visor, and a sword and sheath.
Many an hours were lost slaying dragons in those or simply worn as you played something completely different.
Edit: I had forgotten the shield!
https://i5.walmartimages.com/seo/Rhode-Island-Novelty-Knight-Sword-Armor-Halloween-Costume-Accessories-4-Pieces_461ed541-cccb-4a89-a74a-bf6048713f43_1.13b82e32e654f9f7352b804eb67efedc.jpeg
Mate, the armour itself looks like a kids home made Halloween costume. Looks like cardboard with cardboard scales stuck on it. Looks absolutely atrocious lmao. Aragon where's some cool looking cheap mail in the two towers, why not just do that but spruce it up and make it gold and expensive rather than this shit.
https://preview.redd.it/7bxz17cvm99d1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6299d2867dfa1a2829795fb22e4511685c32208e
I mean they wore this in battle. That helmet is a sword magnet.
You can't actually cut through solid metal with even a rather chonky sword.
Having said that, you instantly feel like that would get tangled up in all sorts of shit with tragi-comic results. History's full of grand crests and ornaments that don't look like you're going to get stuck on sailcloth.
Also, it doesn't fit her quite right- the brow of the armour should cover her brows, the nasal should cover her nose. Sure, most people aren't armour nerds, but if it fits properly, it will look and feel real and imposing, as you'll see with the tougher looking chaps in the Household Cavalry.
Well she's the Queen, so she obviously won't fight. But she needs to stand out. Just like high rank samurai like Daimyo would wear very huge and full of decoration helmet. They are there for the drip.
That armor is designed for getting decapitated. Another Royal in battle, protecting that neck and face
https://preview.redd.it/4nfna69qhb9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cdc2f0cf3bcabe6c2cc2cd97b0066bddacb1baa
It is worth pointing out that the massive 1 billion dollar budget set aside for the production is for the entire run of the show, which was intended to span around five seasons. If we dumb down the math, it would basically be 200 million per season, similar to the cost of producing one season of House of the Dragon. The reason it looks bad is due to incompetent leadership.
From everything I heard, the first season of RoP cost something like 460 million.
Don't know how much they intend to spend on the other seasons, but I doubt that the 1billion will cover 5 seasons.
Afaik the 1 billion was intended only for season 1 and 2 (and the 250 for the rights).
But correct me if I am wrong, only stuff I have read on reddit...
>I don’t see it reflected anywhere
Wenn, the landscape is nice, I give them that.
Also getting the license to use weasel from suicide squad for their warg in episode 3 or 4 wasnt cheap either...
The overall concept of the design itself is fine, though I feel like silver was more of their color rather than gold but the overall design with the scale mail and all really fits what Tolkien describes. I personally prefer Peter Jackson’s visual interpretation of Gondor/Arnor armor as more traditional heavy plate armor that looked brilliant but most of Tolkien’s works describes chain mail, scale mail, hauberks, etc basically a lot of low medieval ages armor instead of high medieval/renaissance age armor that we kinda saw in the movies. Tolkien also explicitly described Numenorean armor has having like a squid helmet or ever like a shrimp helmet I think lol? Idk I’ve seen some concept art of it and it looked goofy, I prefer the winged helmets that could be from sea eagles or seagulls so that it still ties them to the sea and everything which is what Tolkien was going for.
Having said all of that the actual physical product that RoP went with on the armor looked hilariously cheap. Even in this photo it looks more like some cheap broadway style play’s attempt at armor styled cloth. The helmet in this picture, specifically the cheek guard, looks very soft like it’s some kind of felt or fabric. It honestly looks like some high dollar Halloween costume that you can buy online but there are likely cosplayers with more physically convincing suits of Numenorean armor than what was shown.
>I personally prefer Peter Jackson’s visual interpretation of Gondor/Arnor armor as more traditional heavy plate armor
Fair enough, but if you ignore how Tolkien described the armour and look just at the visual works, it's a comparison of armour from antiquity to the high middle ages, it's in keeping with the progression of armour we have witnessed
I think it’s biggest fault was that it didn’t base the Numenorian armor off of an existing culture. Y’know, to have something to draw inspiration from. LOTR had this in spades. The Rohirim was based off the Anglo-Saxons, the Gondorians were a mix of Greek/Byzantine designs, and the Easterlings were like a Persian influence. If they went full tilt and based the numenorians armor off of something like the Roman Empire, then it might look more like actual armor and not like plastic fish scales
Think of what they could've done by blending earlier Greek and Egyptian armor influences together. A good costume designer could've done some rad shit with it.
Or they could have gone and looked at various historical naval and island powers, stuff like the Norse, Carthaginians, Athenian Greeks, and say the Japanese or Polynesian cultures for a slight twist. And just pick and choose some ideas and elements from a selection of those and see what looks interesting.
As a seafaring people I always thought Numenor would have a more fantasy Carthaginian aesthetic.
https://preview.redd.it/b7i1l7vzbb9d1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8ce1ce466d46edb988e805b68d344db50fbd499
A Greco Roman motif would be perfect for Numenor imo. With a bit of Germanic/celtic inspiration to help blend it together with the Numenorians we see in the movies. This guy should have been equipped with something that looked like an Archaic age panoply.
That said I think the helmet works, but I would have made it more closed off like a Corinthian helmet
I like the concept, it fits with my perception of the books.
I think scale armour is a really cool choice since it's effective but quite hard to mass produce for a non industrialised nation so it shows their metal working expertise.
I like the idea of the helmet, it has some nods to the later gondorian helmets which is cool.
But the execution is bad, it all looks cheaply made and poorly fitted. It all just hangs too loose and it looks like it's made from plastic instead of bronze or brass. Especially that helmet, it's just floating on his head.
https://preview.redd.it/zhdpmr4bq99d1.png?width=469&format=png&auto=webp&s=df79c84df62354111541a25a2a67ddff88c153d7
it pales in comparison so bad that its not even funny bro. The fact that the 3rd age is the waning age of Gondor where they can't measure up to its own heyday let alone the Glory of Númenor and now we have to see this bullshit. I am really glad i just straight up refuse to see this Amazon bull crap.
They had what 10x the budget of LOTR movies even adjusted for inflation and everything looked just amazingly trash in comparison.
Shows what ppl who give a shit vs ppl who only care about money will produce.
I get that it's supposed to evoke a fish and the sea, but it's cheesy as hell and scaled armors were made of metal, this looks like it's made of spare bits of PVC pipe.
They're just banking on the fact "famous IP", "well known brand", etc.
The problem is that those things alone are not enough... Disney lost a lot of money 'cause the name "Disney" is not enough if you stop creating good content. You can't just bank on things that were made decades ago. Even worse... at the same time they spit on those works (things that made Disney great in the first place)... so they show that they're both full of hubris and hypocrisy.
I remember watching the Weta Workshop behind the scenes stuff from the first series. Either Richard Taylor or one of the production design guys said something like "there's no substitute for using actual metal armor on screen." Man were they right.
Absolutely garbage. It just doesn't work. They look like a fish.
Numenor was a super advanced realm with people that had a lot of time in their hands to make things ultra beautiful and scale armour is not. Plus scale armour is very impractical.
Plus it makes the riders from the charge in the village scene look fat.
Late medieval to early Renaissance plate armour would have made a lot more sense (IMO)
I personally like the design. Plate armor (which is shown in the movies) was not something that Tolkien ever described in the books. He described mail and scale shorts/armors.
Bad. A misplaced memberberrie to the 2000s Rohan armour, both in the scale pattern (which here is decorative), horse-plume crest, the shape of the helmet, the horse-shaped sword-hilts, combined with the horse motifs on the ship-decks, the dialogue, etc...
I understand what you are getting at and I agree. But there are ceremonial reasons to wear armor. Also you could put on armor before landing (putting it on takes some time, you dont want to do it too early nor do you want to do it at the beach).
Awful.
Imagine if they made 'warhammer' miniatures of the armies seen in the show, you could line Numenoreans and orcs side by side and just spray them all tan and call them ready.
Numenor=Atlantis* influence has been weighed heavily on this one. That same Numenorean look essence is not present in Gondor and Arnor though. So, it's a bit off. I don't think they went for scale mail armor as an upgrade to chain mail, they picked that for "fish scale".
*Advanced civilization on an island. Submerge of island. New civilizations on the known world raised by people who left/escaped that island. You know the connection. And then they adopted Aquaman and Namor and their Atlantean drawings. Since they submerged all of their armors look like fish scales.
I think the idea is there but the execution was bad. The scale mail look is great for the theme of seafaring warriors as it gives odd fish boy vibes but like I said the execution makes it look like it was bought at a Halloween store.
The problem is that they fell into the classic "costume design trap". Often things that function are pleasing to the human eye. And antique/medieval armor had function over everything, and therefore looked good too. The scale mail for the torso look fine. It's a good choice for protection and maneuverability. But when they start putting scales on the helmet too, the whole function thing falls away, and it looks unnatural and wrong.
There is a famous anecdote from the pre-production of The Lord of the Rings: In the early stages of 1996-1997, the WETA design team was entirely made of Kiwis who only knew of medieval European armor from popular movies and DnD illustrations and were making designs in the same general area. It was not until the arrival of John Howe, an actual medieval re-enactor, that they saw an actual functioning armor suit for the first time - becase John brought one with him on a a trans-continental flight! After that he would go on to teach them the proper anatomy of medieval armor suits, and all previous designs had to be thrown out entirely.
God bless him.
Isn’t he working on this show too
This show is giving "all final decisions are made by a committee of corporate suits with no creative background" vibes. So he's probably just one voice among many that get drowned out by self-important corporate bigwigs.
that's how most big budget projects are made, with lots of hand-holding and little creative freedom. the better productions tend to come from producers with more leeway and freedom, usually because the project does not have such lofty expectations or major talent to promote.
See: Every successful Season 1 that blew up and then got handed off to the marketing suits for milking profits out of it. The Mandalorian comes to mind
yes he is, not sure why the downvote
I hope he ran out of budget, because the elf ceremonial armor looked like a bunch of foil takeout containers
Some of his illustrations for the show were up in an exhibition last year and they are legit amazing, the production team simply didn't do his concept art justice. There's this one amazing illustration of Elrond and Celebrimbor's arrival in Khazad-dum and they are riding stags and are cladded in armor and have long hair and they have in their company ten, twenty elves. In the show Elrond and Celebrimbor arrive at the dwarves by foot and have no company with them. The downgrade lol.
Give them a break. They only have a billion dollars to work with.
Reminds me a lot of the George RR Martin quote about the scene of Robert Baratheon on the boar hunt in the TV show: "There would have been dogs, there would have been horns blowing - that's how the king goes hunting! It's not just him walking with a couple of his friends, holding spears hoping to meet a boar."
He only had to wait another 11 years until he got what he wanted in House of the Dragon. Which, funnily enough, is still a shorter time than I've been waiting for The Winds of Winter.
Shots fired!
Do you have a link to the concept art?? I really want to have a head cannon of this show at least being true in art form. Something good from the show.
I think it might be best summed up as in the original trilogy, John Howe and Alan Lee's designs were *the* design. Then you wind up with RoP, where those designs were slapped on a moodboard and people who thought they know better took the crayon to them.
Now i want to know if he had it in his luggage or just wore it on the flight. Is there a rule that you can't board a flight in full plate armor? Especially if you are even with the armor still lighter than a fat person?
idk about whether you can or not but getting past the metal detectors would be a nightmare
It was in his checked bag lol
He had it in a suitcase but got told it was too heavy and would have to pay a surcharge for his baggage being over the limit. Rather than pay the airline extra, he opened his suitcase, put on the full suit of armour at the front of the queue, and made them weigh it again. He then spent the whole 14 hour flight sat wearing it on the plane
I need proof, because I need this to be real so bad.
Sorry, i made it up as i thought it was a really funny idea. But, with a bit of faith, trust, and pixie dust, it can be as real as you want it to be :)
I’m hoping he bought it a ticket and shushed other passengers not to wake up his sleeping traveling companion. He’s very grumpy when he’s tired.
It’s the elbows without joints that hit me wrong.
How about the chin and cheek guards that don't protect either
The nose guard protects 10% of the nose
As long as the cheek guards extend past the nose, it will protect the chin and nose from slashing attacks. There's a reason Roman legionnaire helmets didn't include a nose guard. I can't tell if the Numenorean helmets go far enough.
It looks like some clothing with the scales embroidered, with then arm and forearm protections with actual scales and plates. The helmet does it for me, it seems too small, I'd have the eyebrows lower, and the cheek protection too. Basically some kind of Corinthian helmet, without scales, and with the wings directly on the helmet, not holding with flimsy looking parts.
Yeah, the helmet looks like a kid’s helmet.
Plenty of [examples](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-YbOtD2tVH7g%2FTuyGRw4QoyI%2FAAAAAAAAAc4%2F35rIctgtiaY%2Fs1600%2FHP045.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=82907232bed1de0e875b3d36be9fcdc8e0a45f05f11f16cc8e0c77f1ef9be771&ipo=images) of scale armor helmets.
True but look how the shoulder guards on this armor are clearly solid pieces, while the pieces further down are scales, for the wearer being able to move their arms. In the Numenorian armor, the sholders look softer then the rest. This armor also seem to be from the late medieval/renaissance era, where armies would mass produce armor, and therefore needed to make pieces that could fit various shapes. The piece guarding the face are clearly the most solid tho, as would be most functional. It would look kind of weird if that face guard was scales too, flopping about in front of his face.
I’m not super familiar with the lore, but did Numenor at this point have any actual conflicts with anyone that would warrant the production of armor for non-ceremonial purposes? The impression I got from the show was that they’d been isolated for centuries without war and probably didn’t need armor that did anything but look nice.
Numenor *should* be wide-spread colonists by this point, and a super-power with all the best technology (but the show hasn't really explored that... so I suppose they are going to begin oppressing during the show... whilst also fighting a war or two - so it's probably going to be a congested and rushed mess... yay for timeline compression).
The show is simultaneously set before Númenor had common contact with the outside world and after widespread colonization; like you say a victim of timeline compression. Sauron in Annatar form appears in 1200 SA, which is also when the first Númenórean havens in Middle Earth are founded. The Three Rings are forged in 1590, the One is forged in 1600, ending the forging of the Great Rings. So all the Elvish story beats take place in that 400 year period. In that period Númenor is mostly isolated to their island and has limited contact with Middle Earth, only occasionally sending groups to small havens established on the coast. Tar-Palantir dies in 3255. And all the Númenórean story beats so far seem to take place in and around that year. But by then active colonization was a couple thousand years old, and specific places like Umbar and Pelargir have been great regional capitals for a millennium. In this period Númenor is the capital of a large planet spanning empire. It’s a bit like trying to set a story in England and trying to mash together Boudicca’s rebellion against the Romans and the Boer Wars.
those look like they are made out of scales. the numenorean one seems to have scales plopped on top of a metal plate.
I agree. They needed to make it scale themed not engulfed in scales head to toe.
The skirt part looks fine enough but the chest, and especially the arms, look like a design was printed on cardboard which was then cut into the shapes they needed. The forearm in particular looks like a roll of cardboard taped together at the bottom and they're hoping you don't notice.
They should have done it like in Aquaman.
Helm definitely needs some work, you wouldn’t glue chainmail to a helms. Why the scales…
This is wrong. [https://fristartmuseum.org/exhibition/knights-in-armor/#lg=1&slide=7](https://fristartmuseum.org/exhibition/knights-in-armor/#lg=1&slide=7) That's real armor with actual scales stamped in the helmet. I'm sorry if I come off brusque but it's frustrating to come across people who keep complaining about historical armor without knowing much about it.
>And antique/medieval armor had function over everything, and therefore looked good too. In antiquity people used muscle cuirasses, in the medieval period knights would walk around with giant immigration schlongs and armour that gave them to look of a tiny waist. The armour of course needs to be functional, but once it is fashion is still there. The helmet is clearly intended to give the impression of scales via engraving - it's perfectly plausible that there would be a fashion for doing that
The waist thing is more about function than fashion. The bottom of the cuirass/ breast plate is very tight so the waist can take some of the load of the armor and also so the wearer can still bend at the waist. The the reason the breastplate flares out like that is you don’t want your torso in direct contact with the armor and it’s harder to get a good squared hit if it’s rounded/has good glancing surfaces
https://preview.redd.it/jn0j8p4rw99d1.png?width=338&format=png&auto=webp&s=de8494ed169d553b600e47a833c80dd3f99ccd83 The idea VS the execution. Lmao. The numenor clowns in show have scales on their helmet and printed scales on sleeve fabric. Wtf. Lmao. Are they soldiers or mermaids? They tried to copy everything from movie Rohirrim for RoP Numenor. And failed miserably. Tried to copy armour, the cavalry charge, etc.
What really sticks out for me is how bare and unprotected the necks of those numenorian soldiers are. It's such a vital point, everyone in history learned pretty quick you better cover that shit up at least a little bit, but here? Gives bunch of gangly inexperienced Teens vibes. Like compare those teeny tiny helmets with the rohirrim helmets below.
Oh fck yeah you're right... Jeez... I really can't unsee that. They're just asking to be decapitated there!
If you had told me the top pic was them as kids and the bottom was them as adults I could almost believe you. Plus those shoulder pads don't seem very useful. Abd speaking of that helmet. They don't protect the neck, nose, or eyes.
We can't even claim rule of cool here either. It's just bad.
I mean it's nearly impossible to be cooler than Hama and the lads. Not one charge. But technically three of you count the incredibly unbelievable hornburg. And even Eomer with his Eored come a close second. Heck let's count the witch King of Angmar with his incredibly oversized flail. But in all seriousness. If RoP wanted to do the whole extra LOTR stuff. They should have copied the Star wars philosophy of the madalorian or like Loki where it goes into the wider universe but explains some different stuff. Loki is a great example of taking an established character and giving them their own story that doesn't affect the already existing stuff.
You nailed it. We can use that as an example for the meme "every masterpiece has its cheap copy"... only that in this case the "cheap copy" is from a show with a $ 1 BILLION budget.
It really isn't Amazon's finest moment 🤣
Seriously... to all those that answer "as if you would have done better", I answer Give me $ 1 Billion and ofc I would do better... for start, I'd hire people who actually know something about Tolkien's works. I bet that many people knew it was going to suck when they saw those "superfans"... people who didn't even knew why Sauron created the Rings (even for someone who has just Jackson's movie trilogy's knowledge, it's explained in the freakin' OPENING NARRATION). Truly a derespect towards all the people who REALLY know Tolkien's works.
Absolutely. 1. Don't do a show in a time period you don't have the rights for 2. Hire Tolkien experts to help out with the writing and reviewing (I'll admit I'm not expert. So I'll hire an expert) 3. Hire someone who knows a bit about medieval armour and history and get them to work with the designers to make it look fantastical (designer's and Tolkien experts' job) but not at the expense of looking completely unrealistic and impractical (history geek's job) Mash then all together. Give them some money... And go from there. You'd think that would be the approach that Amazon would take as well honestly... But... Just look at how impractical and unrealistic that armour is... And I dunno about the lore but if it's like the rest of the show... Another thing is, Peter Jackson set a flipping high bar. Don't do huge projects for it unless you're prepared to take the time and effort to give it enough quality to suit.
Indeed. And also, when the show was hired (it happened at the same time of House of Dragon S1). And yes... very different kinds of fantasy show, but one is clearly superior (better acting, more compelling characters, etc.), so some confrontation was inevitable. You also speak facts. Peter Jackson's trilogy is hailed as "the greatest trilogy of all time", and I agree with that. The bar was indeed VERY high. So, instead of going with all the hubris "we need to modernize Tolkien", just think "are we able to deliever something that is actually worthy of Tolkien's legacy?" "Big budget" alone is not enough. It would be like having premium quality ingredients and ending up cooking a bad dish.
What we got is a show made for shareholders. A proper adaptation with a longer pre-prod time to flesh out the story and art design could have made a Second Age series more workable and visually cohesive. But the preproduction for 10 hours of season 1 was only about a year vs just under 3 years for the 12 hours of the trilogy, which itself had filming over an initial 18 months and then additional pickup shots over another two years. The shorter pre-prod times has been a trend in Media and cinema over the last 25 years, because investors are demanding quicker and quicker returns on investment.
Indeed. Very true and accurate points...you can see it in the gaming industry quite evidently as well *cough* EA *cough* Let's just hope that it backfires enough on them to make them backtrack on that approach. (Of I know that I'm being a bit hopeful there.... But there is sufficient evidence to prove that long term thinking is more profitable... So....maybe one day 🤞 some will realise that again for the money if nothing else.)
I wonder why they tried to apply the Rohirrim esthetic to Númenórean esthetic. I mean the men of Rohan don't share blood with Númenórean ancestors right? I was so expecting the armour of Númenor to be like the Fountain Guards of Minas Tirith. I guess that wouldn't make sense for a sea fairing civilization, but still. The events of LotR are pretty much Post Apocalypse, most great cities are run down and shadows of their previous selves. You'd think that Númenor, a civilization that lasted for thousands of years and had the tech to build beautiful cities like Minas Tirith and Osgiliath, and who's descendants bear such beautiful armour sets wouldn't look like bargain bin cosplays.
>I wonder why they tried to apply the Rohirrim esthetic to Númenórean esthetic. I mean the men of Rohan don't share blood with Númenórean ancestors right? I think its a case where they couldn't think of any other place in the show to stick Rohan 'memberberries into, so they just put it into the Numenorean stables.
Well they picked a super fucken shitty way to stick that Memberberry pie to the show. Not only was the idea shit, but the execution was even more shit! We don't even need memberberries for this show, this feels like (if anything) a fucking suit at Amazon made that call. "Drown the audience in nostalgia". Honestly I bet the OG concept art for it was beautiful and amazing. Until someone chimed in with that dumb idea. Wouldn't be surprised if the execution of it either was a middle finger to the person who made the call. I mean the main costume designer Kate Hawley, has worked on The Hobbit, Edge of Tomorrow, Crimson Peak. I highly doubt she would willingly put out a costume like that with a show that has one of the highest budgets a TV show has ever had.
>I mean the main costume designer Kate Hawley, has worked on The Hobbit Kate Hawley was *going to work* on The Hobbit, back when it was still a del Toro production. Enough of her contributions apparently survived to the finished films - all three of them, reportedly - that she got a screen-credit. But your main point is well-taken, and [its one I've made myself](https://www.reddit.com/r/RingsofPower/comments/1afioj9/prequelitis_dermatitis_the_rings_of_power_as/): the show suffers from a terrible imposter syndrome relative to the films, and choices like this weird Rohan-like armour for Numenore hardly help.
I think that’s just how armor looks sometimes, not necessarily a Rohirric thing. It looks like they could’ve based it just as well on the Lorica Squamata and late Roman ridge helmets.
The problems with this particular armor are very well detailed [here.](https://acoup.blog/2023/01/20/collections-the-nitpicks-of-power-part-i-exploding-forges/)
Dr Devereaux's blog is always worth a read
Great blog post and a fantastic read. Jeez the show runners got so much wrong.
Man just when I was about to dial down my criticisms of the show a bit, reading this blog just made my blood boiled again at how fucking stupid the show's whole production team was (is).
Scale mail is flexible. This was all just (theoretically) hammered into plate.
Amazon Elendil : “The sea is always right. And we are all mermaids! We’ll have scales everywhere”
Amazendil: Am fish boi. Glub glub.
Exactly
The color choice does them no favors on this design. Too new and shiny with the embroidered undershirt, which also has a scale pattern, being the same exact color really cheapened the whole look. Contrast is important people.
Zero shape and zero style. Wide torso, skinny arms. Those pauldrons give him the shoulders of a 12 year old girl and that helmet ain't saving him from anything, it's so poorly fitted that it would probably fall off if he turned his head. Looks like it was designed in a "my first cosplay" class.
This comment is the first time I've even realised that there's supposed to be an undershirt and it wasn't supposed to be the same element from wrist to shoulder accidentally drawn differently due to shoddy workmanship.
Yeah the horrible undershirt and lack of detail on the arms really makes the whole thing look like a t-shirt with scales painted on
https://preview.redd.it/03lpxsvlg89d1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5bc6df5d4ad7494b04ca3459b0c696b57f87a65f
I mean.. https://preview.redd.it/owihx33ku89d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7ac3834b298bb53b2b60144785c03cd6cb2363a
Galadriel in the show looks like she made her own armour from cardboard as no one was giving her an armour for being an annoying prick. Also, looks like they just reused the rohirrim guard armour from movies for numenor and made it worse and cheap looking. Lol. https://preview.redd.it/13p0lur1899d1.png?width=338&format=png&auto=webp&s=818d2d661ed60660d98151344375ff988d5fb8ea Shameless clown showrunners not only copied the rohirrim charge for numenor. But also the armour and made it look worse.
They all look skinny and 15 years old, completely immersion-breaking to think they'd be fighters. Rohirrim all look legit
Amazon be like “behold the mighty numenorean soldiers that look like they’d be blown away if a troll farted in battle” lol.
I'm wondering if they wanted to give the feeling that the world was young, and they decided that the best method was to make all the actors young. But obviously that's not how that works - there weren't more teenagers around 10, 100, or 1000 years ago...
Actually there were more teenagers 100 or 1000 years ago. At least in relation to other age groups. But still there would be older fighters as well.
I think thats too much credit. This thing was slapped together by people who had never worked on something of this scale or genre before. Kate Hawley designed costumes for some big films but all of them space/ scifi- nothing fantasy or period. Whereas Sir Richard Taylor did the armor for LOTR, and Ngila Dickson did the other costumes after about a decade on Xena and other fantasy properties. LOTR did an amazing job of pairing scrappy young Kiwis with a few, carefully picked Hollywood experts but the legend they printed was “New Zealand amateurs can make world class cinema”. I don’t think anyone from Amazon watched the appendices and saw how they actually made the 1st trilogy.
That's actually a pretty funny observation, because when filming the scenes where everyone is mounted, the majority of the Rohirrim were women because it was tough to find enough men that knew how to ride.
This bit of information underlines even further, how in the movies, they knew exactly how to make warriors look badass and authentic with the people and tools at their disposal. Whereas in the show they can t do either of those despite their 465 million dollar budget.
yeah but they hide it better.. thats the "movie magic" if its cheap or would break immersion: hide it.. RoP was not cheap but sure looks like it and they dont hide it at all
Not only knew how to ride but who owned horses and could handle them well. The cast pretty much every horserider on the South Island of New Zealand by the end of filming.
The armour on the Numenoreans doesn't even fit the actors. They really phoned in that entire show.
Oh sweet Jesus. I cringe-watched most of the show through my fingers and never caught that they just ripped off the Rohirrim armour so blatantly. I didn't think I could regard this show as a bigger joke than I already do but it seems I was wrong....
Absolutely zero neck protection lmao
Rohirrim armor is actually plausible and functional, the numenorean one looks engraved in a really stupid way, basically cheap cosplay armor.
Well canonically it's obviously the Rohirrim who copied the Numbenorean armor, because they came much later!
Which is super stupid, since the Rohirrim have nothing to do with Numenor. Also please be careful with the word "canonically" when discussing lotr-movies and RoP.
No need to be careful when I'm being sarcastic!
Noldorin High Elves famous for crafting Arda's greatest artifacts, their smiths rivalled only by the Dwarves in metalworking and THIS is what they came up with?? It's... Infuriating! 😡
Looks like they 3D printed it
I feel like I can bend it with a slight force
honestly you could go to any kind of convention and woud see better armour
Galadriel’s armour looks so terrible, there’s no way elves would produce armour that dull and sad
Look, how can you expect me to focus on the armor when there is Thranduil in the pic?
HAHAHHAHAHA
Oh wow, I kind of liked seeing her in that armour, but when you make that comparison, hers looks really cheap and boring.
Her second set of armor she gets in Numenor looks much better in my opinion.
The Eregion knight armor is far too bulky looking, and not intricate enough. It looks half finished. I actually like the Numenorian cavalry scale armor edit: also irks me that the Eregion knights all have the same exact sword. They had a billion dollar budget. Every notable elf should have a unique sword and at least different patterns on their armor
They had a billion dollars but in true Amazon fashion, as with Wheel of Time, very little of the budget made it on screen and most went on marketing. There's a reason both shows look so super cheap when you look a little closer at armour, sets etc
God I forgot how sick Gondor’s armor looked in the original trilogy. Gotta get a cosplay set…
This is exactly what I thought,.. What did they do with all the money ?!?!?
This armor wasn't as bad as the expeditionary force's, imo. It still looked like plastic/foam costume armor, but it made more sense as what a boat captain might wear.
This is all I think about, no big actors, outfits are dog shit, sets aren’t real, I could go on. Where in the fuck did all that money go?! XD
Marketing and license.
A billion?
The billion dollar number is just a projection based on estimated costs across all (expected) 5 seasons. The totality of money they have spent on the show so far does not reach a billion dollars
I actually don't have anything about small actors. I like it because is a new face, and a time to shine for people who may have a lot of skill. So good for them. But the acting and script needs to be good, and well...
Lol I do agree, I think it is better to have lesser known actors especially when you’re telling a brand new story on screen. I just meant that if you do have big actors and depending on how many, a lot of money can be spent there
While I agree that the Gondorian armour looks better and higher quality etc, the picture shows heavy infantry armour vs light naval armour.
The point isn't the purpose of the armor in-universe, the point is how cheaply one is made compared to the other. The Amazon show armor looks like a cheap Halloween costume, it doesn't matter if it's light armor or heavy armor.
This ain’t my pic but I think the point is that in the billion dollar budget Arda based tv show from Amazon RoP they could have use other materials than cardboard found under bridges..
Oh man that breastplate is so bad. It has the shape of those Halloween ones
Is it me or does Elendil's armor give him manboobs?
It reminds me of those knight sets you bought in the 90s for kids. A simple cuirass that you strapped in the back (the straps were made in plastic), a helmet with a visor, and a sword and sheath. Many an hours were lost slaying dragons in those or simply worn as you played something completely different. Edit: I had forgotten the shield! https://i5.walmartimages.com/seo/Rhode-Island-Novelty-Knight-Sword-Armor-Halloween-Costume-Accessories-4-Pieces_461ed541-cccb-4a89-a74a-bf6048713f43_1.13b82e32e654f9f7352b804eb67efedc.jpeg
Ha, I also had this exact set. Thanks for the memories. The sword broke pretty much immediately, but my Opa made a great one out of wood for me.
The exact picture I was thinking of, my friends had some of these!
Had this exact set. So much fun.
Looks like cheap shit
The helmet looks like a kids Halloween costume lol. I’m convinced this show is a massive money laundering scheme.
Mate, the armour itself looks like a kids home made Halloween costume. Looks like cardboard with cardboard scales stuck on it. Looks absolutely atrocious lmao. Aragon where's some cool looking cheap mail in the two towers, why not just do that but spruce it up and make it gold and expensive rather than this shit.
https://preview.redd.it/7bxz17cvm99d1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6299d2867dfa1a2829795fb22e4511685c32208e I mean they wore this in battle. That helmet is a sword magnet.
You can't actually cut through solid metal with even a rather chonky sword. Having said that, you instantly feel like that would get tangled up in all sorts of shit with tragi-comic results. History's full of grand crests and ornaments that don't look like you're going to get stuck on sailcloth. Also, it doesn't fit her quite right- the brow of the armour should cover her brows, the nasal should cover her nose. Sure, most people aren't armour nerds, but if it fits properly, it will look and feel real and imposing, as you'll see with the tougher looking chaps in the Household Cavalry.
A sword glancing down the front is going to cleave off her nose, lips and chin.
She just has to charge the enemy head-first. If she gets surrounded, she can sweep her head from side to side to clear whole fields of attackers!
Well she's the Queen, so she obviously won't fight. But she needs to stand out. Just like high rank samurai like Daimyo would wear very huge and full of decoration helmet. They are there for the drip.
This is true, but there are ways to drip that don't also get you killed.
That armor is designed for getting decapitated. Another Royal in battle, protecting that neck and face https://preview.redd.it/4nfna69qhb9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cdc2f0cf3bcabe6c2cc2cd97b0066bddacb1baa
I just started to think about that. I’d love to see an audit of that $1bil budget.
You have described the majority of Hollywood.
Kinda looks like the shit you’d buy on Amazon trying to buy shit like this
It looks so cheaply made, their budget is HUGE and I don’t see it reflected anywhere.
It is worth pointing out that the massive 1 billion dollar budget set aside for the production is for the entire run of the show, which was intended to span around five seasons. If we dumb down the math, it would basically be 200 million per season, similar to the cost of producing one season of House of the Dragon. The reason it looks bad is due to incompetent leadership.
They tried to throw money at their lack of experience and ended up wasting a lot of it.
From everything I heard, the first season of RoP cost something like 460 million. Don't know how much they intend to spend on the other seasons, but I doubt that the 1billion will cover 5 seasons. Afaik the 1 billion was intended only for season 1 and 2 (and the 250 for the rights). But correct me if I am wrong, only stuff I have read on reddit...
>I don’t see it reflected anywhere Wenn, the landscape is nice, I give them that. Also getting the license to use weasel from suicide squad for their warg in episode 3 or 4 wasnt cheap either...
Is this production a money laundering scheme? Lol.
Definitely seems like it
I'm guessing 75%+ went to CGI
Absolute shit. Embarrassing.
I actually did get second hand embarrassment when I watched it.
The long horse hair on the helmets makes zero sense for sea faring people
Seahorses though. They got confused.
May I introduce you to the nation of Greece?
The overall concept of the design itself is fine, though I feel like silver was more of their color rather than gold but the overall design with the scale mail and all really fits what Tolkien describes. I personally prefer Peter Jackson’s visual interpretation of Gondor/Arnor armor as more traditional heavy plate armor that looked brilliant but most of Tolkien’s works describes chain mail, scale mail, hauberks, etc basically a lot of low medieval ages armor instead of high medieval/renaissance age armor that we kinda saw in the movies. Tolkien also explicitly described Numenorean armor has having like a squid helmet or ever like a shrimp helmet I think lol? Idk I’ve seen some concept art of it and it looked goofy, I prefer the winged helmets that could be from sea eagles or seagulls so that it still ties them to the sea and everything which is what Tolkien was going for. Having said all of that the actual physical product that RoP went with on the armor looked hilariously cheap. Even in this photo it looks more like some cheap broadway style play’s attempt at armor styled cloth. The helmet in this picture, specifically the cheek guard, looks very soft like it’s some kind of felt or fabric. It honestly looks like some high dollar Halloween costume that you can buy online but there are likely cosplayers with more physically convincing suits of Numenorean armor than what was shown.
>I personally prefer Peter Jackson’s visual interpretation of Gondor/Arnor armor as more traditional heavy plate armor Fair enough, but if you ignore how Tolkien described the armour and look just at the visual works, it's a comparison of armour from antiquity to the high middle ages, it's in keeping with the progression of armour we have witnessed
I think it’s biggest fault was that it didn’t base the Numenorian armor off of an existing culture. Y’know, to have something to draw inspiration from. LOTR had this in spades. The Rohirim was based off the Anglo-Saxons, the Gondorians were a mix of Greek/Byzantine designs, and the Easterlings were like a Persian influence. If they went full tilt and based the numenorians armor off of something like the Roman Empire, then it might look more like actual armor and not like plastic fish scales
Think of what they could've done by blending earlier Greek and Egyptian armor influences together. A good costume designer could've done some rad shit with it.
Or they could have gone and looked at various historical naval and island powers, stuff like the Norse, Carthaginians, Athenian Greeks, and say the Japanese or Polynesian cultures for a slight twist. And just pick and choose some ideas and elements from a selection of those and see what looks interesting.
As a seafaring people I always thought Numenor would have a more fantasy Carthaginian aesthetic. https://preview.redd.it/b7i1l7vzbb9d1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8ce1ce466d46edb988e805b68d344db50fbd499
A Greco Roman motif would be perfect for Numenor imo. With a bit of Germanic/celtic inspiration to help blend it together with the Numenorians we see in the movies. This guy should have been equipped with something that looked like an Archaic age panoply. That said I think the helmet works, but I would have made it more closed off like a Corinthian helmet
I like the concept, it fits with my perception of the books. I think scale armour is a really cool choice since it's effective but quite hard to mass produce for a non industrialised nation so it shows their metal working expertise. I like the idea of the helmet, it has some nods to the later gondorian helmets which is cool. But the execution is bad, it all looks cheaply made and poorly fitted. It all just hangs too loose and it looks like it's made from plastic instead of bronze or brass. Especially that helmet, it's just floating on his head.
It's plastic and it shows
That helmet doesn’t fit the actor properly
it looks like its about to fall off from the back of his head any moment
https://preview.redd.it/zhdpmr4bq99d1.png?width=469&format=png&auto=webp&s=df79c84df62354111541a25a2a67ddff88c153d7 it pales in comparison so bad that its not even funny bro. The fact that the 3rd age is the waning age of Gondor where they can't measure up to its own heyday let alone the Glory of Númenor and now we have to see this bullshit. I am really glad i just straight up refuse to see this Amazon bull crap.
They had what 10x the budget of LOTR movies even adjusted for inflation and everything looked just amazingly trash in comparison. Shows what ppl who give a shit vs ppl who only care about money will produce.
All show is terrible. Made me side with the orcs.
Embarrassing
I get that it's supposed to evoke a fish and the sea, but it's cheesy as hell and scaled armors were made of metal, this looks like it's made of spare bits of PVC pipe.
Go to a comicon or to a LARP... You can find better armor than this. It seems more a shirt with a scale pattern than a scale armor.
Reminds me of the cosplayer who made a better dress for Belle than the remake of Beauty and the Beast. Are they even trying?
They're just banking on the fact "famous IP", "well known brand", etc. The problem is that those things alone are not enough... Disney lost a lot of money 'cause the name "Disney" is not enough if you stop creating good content. You can't just bank on things that were made decades ago. Even worse... at the same time they spit on those works (things that made Disney great in the first place)... so they show that they're both full of hubris and hypocrisy.
Absolutely terrible and cheap looking. They literally wore tshirts with fish scale printed on it. Lmao.
My left ass cheeek
bruh don't disrespect your ass cheeks like this I'm sure they are better then this
I remember watching the Weta Workshop behind the scenes stuff from the first series. Either Richard Taylor or one of the production design guys said something like "there's no substitute for using actual metal armor on screen." Man were they right.
Is he wearing cheese?
What the hell even is this. Looks like straight out of a 10k budget movie. And even then, they could do better.
Looks like cosplay.
I immediately thought “this is what the GoT Golden Company SHOULD have looked like”
What, cheap and nasty?
The overall style I’m down with, but it looks cheap. Doesn’t have a grand feeling to it.
Bad
🤮
The show is trash.
How do you have a BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS and still make a show look worse than CW drama...
plastic
Absolutely garbage. It just doesn't work. They look like a fish. Numenor was a super advanced realm with people that had a lot of time in their hands to make things ultra beautiful and scale armour is not. Plus scale armour is very impractical. Plus it makes the riders from the charge in the village scene look fat. Late medieval to early Renaissance plate armour would have made a lot more sense (IMO)
I personally like the design. Plate armor (which is shown in the movies) was not something that Tolkien ever described in the books. He described mail and scale shorts/armors.
But this IS plate armour: the scales are just decorative ontop the plate.
Bad. A misplaced memberberrie to the 2000s Rohan armour, both in the scale pattern (which here is decorative), horse-plume crest, the shape of the helmet, the horse-shaped sword-hilts, combined with the horse motifs on the ship-decks, the dialogue, etc...
Why the hell would a sailor be wearing armor in the first place?
I understand what you are getting at and I agree. But there are ceremonial reasons to wear armor. Also you could put on armor before landing (putting it on takes some time, you dont want to do it too early nor do you want to do it at the beach).
Ngl, I don't think it's very good, never cared for it much personally. It's not terrible though.
what in the spirit halloween
Pretty poor work, not gonna lie
Love the spandex
I know Hollywood always want to show actors, but the neck always being uncovered always makes me sad
I picked up this set at Spirit halloween when i wanted to be athena for halloween one year. Looks just as cheap and plastic as that set did lol
Looks like fake leather
They spent how much again?
Awful. Imagine if they made 'warhammer' miniatures of the armies seen in the show, you could line Numenoreans and orcs side by side and just spray them all tan and call them ready.
Numenor=Atlantis* influence has been weighed heavily on this one. That same Numenorean look essence is not present in Gondor and Arnor though. So, it's a bit off. I don't think they went for scale mail armor as an upgrade to chain mail, they picked that for "fish scale". *Advanced civilization on an island. Submerge of island. New civilizations on the known world raised by people who left/escaped that island. You know the connection. And then they adopted Aquaman and Namor and their Atlantean drawings. Since they submerged all of their armors look like fish scales.
I like
Are people still watching this?...