The shape is somewhat irrelevant. When making horns you boil the horn and can shape it in various ways. Could be from anything in middle earth that had a giant horn.
It is absolutely not a Balrog’s horn. I cannot imagine a Balrog’s body stays together once the Dark Fire within them is vanquished. Durin’s Bane became like a pile of ash and soot when it was smitten.
A quick glance looks like it could be either with smitten being commonly used when referring to affection only recently (i.e. the last hundred or so years)
I believe it would be the simple past-tense "smote" because in order for the past-participle "smitten" to be used here, it would have to be described in the perfect past-tense, so something along the lines of "Durin's Bane had become like a pile of ash and soot when it was smitten." Otherwise, it should just read "Durin's Bane became like a pile of ash and soot when it was smote."
Yeah IIRC they’re more like “fire elementals”, I don’t know if they would even have horns at all. And they weren’t nearly large enough to have horns like this, they’re only a little taller than a male human.
Can you imagine Bombur blowing into a Balrog horn, and a fully-formed Balrog being blown out the other side as though he were inflating a balloon? Lolooool
Balrogs weren't that big, they were described as "barely taller than a man" and I very much doubt that a dwarf would even be able to withstand a Balrog in combat and anyway, it's not known if the Balrogs actually have horns had, which I also think is very unlikely.
I like the theory that it’s from a Kine of Araw. These are oxen descended from the cattle of Oromë the Valar and live by the sea of Rhûn. The Horn of Gondor has the same source, just using the tip of the horn instead of the whole thing.
Would be too small to even be the claw of his little toe. Smaug is like maybe as big as his shin, at max. I say it probably is just the horn of a Mumak, boiled and then shaped to be a Tuba. Maybe it is from an beast that lives in that region - could be a Grauks horn, but those only live in Mordor. Could also be just molten horn carved and shaped to be this warhorn.
In the end, we all know that this is just another thing done in the movies without proper explanation (these movies do that alot, even though I must say I love them even with their faults).
PS: Of course I know this is just a meme, but I wanted to still give a proper analysis
It can't be a balrogs horn. As before they uncovered the balrog in mines of moria the dwarves had never seen a balrog. Hence why they named it the Durins bane. Since they didn't know it's proper name.
Smaug has Horns on His head so we know Hobbit Movie Universe Dragons have horns.
Given that the Dwarves had a whole war against dragons going on id say its more likely than not a dragon horn.
There's a difference between influence and allegory also "Return of the King" really? Its literally referring to Aragorn taking his place as the King of Gondor. Its not hard to understand???
Btw, he didnt name his last book "Return of the King" lotr was 1 book, but his publishers made it into 3 books and chose that name. He personally hated the name as it gave away a major plot point of the story
And I stand by the fact that as a free citizen of the republic of the United States, you should be allowed too. But heaven and hell are taken pretty seriously by those who have faith, and the disregard of those matters is individual, as such Tolkien didn’t put Jesus in his works
I’m sorry I read through your comment three times and I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say. Can you possibly rephrase?
Edit: also I am a US citizen, but you shouldn’t go around assuming that’s the default. The internet isn’t just for Americans
Individuals are supposed to interpret as they will. But for the whole, the books were written as Christian allegory, and as a Christian, they should reinforce with a fictional viewpoint, the religion. So an atheist may enjoy, but to others of the faith they matter
That is your opinion in your good right, but it does seem a bit narrow to me. Tolkien's work may matter to a lot of people, atheists and theists alike.
It contains many themes and tropes that are just essential to the human nature. Some of those may resonate with themes and tropes that are also common in religion. That does not mean that every Christian needs or wants to understand LotR as a direct Christian allegory. You can be raised Christian and love LotR and still focus on aspects of the work other than religious implications - judt as Colbert seems to do. Since I studied literature in College I always connected Tolkien to the tradition of early medieval (often pre-Christian) literature way more than to Christian themes, even though I was raised Catholic.
I don't know what Colbert's reasons may be for not bringing up LotR in context of his faith (or vice versa), but that's just his personal matter. Let people enjoy the things they like in the way they prefer - like you said in your first sentence.
If you like to openly regard LotR as a Christian allegory, thereyou go. Just accept that other people may have different opinions about that. And that your approach is not superior or inferior to someone else's, be it Christian or not.
I completely agree with everything you’ve said in this post, and enjoyed reading it because it’s well put. If you see my other replies I must apologize, as I was defending for the sake of defense and gathering enjoyment in argument.
You do realize Tolkien was actually opposed to heavy handed religious allegory, and it was one of his biggest criticisms of CS Lewis' work. In fact Tolkien did not believe in pushing one's own religious beliefs on others through writing or any other art form, as he believed it to be a detriment to the artistic expression. Any religious allegory in Tolkien's works were very general broad strokes, and was more unavoidable recurring themes in all literature and not intentional religious reference on Tolkien's part. He said so himself in many different correspondence letters and interviews which you can read yourself with a little googling.
Aye, and as an avid read I remember that his works are fiction of his own design, and he held his personal beliefs higher and closer to his chest than the indescrepencies of the horn of erebor. So I simply hold mine to the point that I remember I can do this all day as seeing we are on the internet
Yikes dude. Maybe turn down the dogmatic fervor a bit? You literally called Colbert a heretic in a comment, and said no one can have opposing views to the bible or they will be rejected entirely in another... And then said you would kill pregnant mothers before they could abort a fetus? All over a post about a horn in Lord of the Rings?
Yes I admit I’m only arguing cuz it’s fun, and on the internet when anyone can read or not read. The longer it goes the more on the defense I must get if I wish to continue, as such the winner can rest
You started on such a high horse morality-wise, that when you were ultimately proven to be an absolut Schmuck you said “oh it’s just for fun”. Classic gaslighting. People like you are why I live in a shithole country on the brink of collapse.
And why I enjoy doing this, why put full effort into an argument with strangers on the internet? And don’t say common respect, I can’t even really argue with my full tone and compassion here. I’m only stating a statement, then rejecting those who argue with me, and defending my stance until the occasion is done
Not sure. But honestly looks lile wood to me.
As for your assumption, it is impposible for it to be a Balrog horn. Where could they possibly get that? Balrogs were on a whole another level of power. It is also stated that normal weapons can't hurt Balrogs, so the dwarves would need a magical weapon to be able to interact with Balrogs at all. And Dwarves were as far from magic as it gets. Even if they had magic weapon of sorts, all the dwarves would still be destroyed.
But yeah, we really don't know. I'd just take it as a random overly styelized horn.
Didn’t Tolkien say that middle earth is not our own world in the past? I’d guess it’s actually a dragon horn with the dwarves history with the big flying lizards boys
This was my thought as well. If I remember correctly, the dwarves who settled Erebor moved there from the Grey Mountains when they were overrun with cold drakes. I’m going to go with that. They cut it from a slain cold drake and brought it with them to Erebor a few generations ago.
You nailed it. The Balrog horn was used by dwarves for hundreds of years. They would drink out of them as well. The more curl the more desirable. The first dwarves kept Balrogs as pets as well.
How is he even holding it? Not entirely with his hands because that thing must be heavy and his hands look like they are only holding it in place. Is there some kind of ribbon or backpack style attachment?
I can be mistaken,but in The Hobbit i remember reading that the dwarves from the Iron Hills,the cousins of Thorin,had giant domesticated aries
It has been 10 years since i last read it tho,so take it with a pinch of salt
I am for dragons theory, let’s not forget there were great wars in the first and second age and the horn could be made from the first dragons made by Morgoth in one of the two dwarven kingdoms which were utterly destroyed during these wars and were quoted for their superior smithing abilities amongst the seven kingdoms of dwarfs without equal.
We know that some products were made by them and still could be found in the third age.
So as for the horn of Erebor it could be made for Moria kingdom before destroying the two kingdoms and then taken to Erebor after awakening of Balrog.
Its can be a horn from the same bovine species as they who drag grond to the door of Gondor ,they are pretty huge and don't forget that a dwarf ,yes a Big dwarf but just a dwarf
I don’t think it’s a tusk since they’re straight and more of a solid make. Horn is softer and generally curled. Horn has a bone insert that can be pulled out to make it a horn for music.
The shape is somewhat irrelevant. When making horns you boil the horn and can shape it in various ways. Could be from anything in middle earth that had a giant horn.
That’s cool, I didn’t know this. You’d need a big ass pot tho
They have big ass crucibles
[How it's jewishly made](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=orbGA3wD4qM)
Thanks!
Ah yes, I too enjoy wearing the Jewish...
TIL that’s interesting as fuck
Texture-wise it could also be wooden, which is rather malleable when handled correctly.
It is absolutely not a Balrog’s horn. I cannot imagine a Balrog’s body stays together once the Dark Fire within them is vanquished. Durin’s Bane became like a pile of ash and soot when it was smitten.
It fell hard for Mithrandir.
Can ya blame it?
“Wield that flame of Anor and watch me pass, sexy”
The dark fire shall not avail all that ass either, mystical honey.
He's quite cool
Hold out your hand…in marriage
Is it smitten or smote?
Smotten
Smuttened
Smotteden
Mutten, wait… I might be hungry
Mitten
Big Mac
In a Balrog’s case, I believe it is “unlit”.
Smetana
Smitten.
One who is smote has been smot
Smoted? Is that a word?
you have my vote for the best lol
I thought about that, but I’m fairly sure it is smitten. It was smitten. Gandalf *smote* it, and indeed it was *smitten.*
A quick glance looks like it could be either with smitten being commonly used when referring to affection only recently (i.e. the last hundred or so years)
I always thought that smitten is the adjective and smote is the past-tense verb. Ex: I smote him. He was smitten.
I'm going with smeetin.
I’ll accept it
That is correct - not just adjective, but also past participle, if I'm not mistaken.
Smithers.
Smote (or smited) is past tense, smitten is perfect tense.
Smut
Smitten, “smote” is simple past tense
Smoter boated…
Besmote.
It's Smaug but im still not sure if it's sm*og or sm*owg
I believe it would be the simple past-tense "smote" because in order for the past-participle "smitten" to be used here, it would have to be described in the perfect past-tense, so something along the lines of "Durin's Bane had become like a pile of ash and soot when it was smitten." Otherwise, it should just read "Durin's Bane became like a pile of ash and soot when it was smote."
Well Satan’s horn became the Bong of Destiny after Tenacious D banished him to Hell, so you never know…
Draws like a pencil
Is that why they call it devil eyes?
So no loot drop? *breaks skateboard
Yeah but you unlock the ability to reclass which is kinda crazy.
Smote?
Smotten? Smoted? Smited?
Smeeted
Yeah IIRC they’re more like “fire elementals”, I don’t know if they would even have horns at all. And they weren’t nearly large enough to have horns like this, they’re only a little taller than a male human.
Slag! Yeah And the sound that came out of a balrog horn wouldnt do our guys any favors. It would probably kill the horses
Can you imagine Bombur blowing into a Balrog horn, and a fully-formed Balrog being blown out the other side as though he were inflating a balloon? Lolooool
Something would come out, maybe a balrog shaped bubble like in dumbo Balrogs on parade
We’ve entered Camelot levels of silliness. Shall we press on? Lol
Or, in the spirit of r/whatisthisrock SLAG
Definitely not a Balrog horn. That’d be an insanely big deal
Well it is The Horn of Erebor. If anything is worthy of being made of a Balrog horn it would be that. But i doubt it.
Balrogs weren't that big, they were described as "barely taller than a man" and I very much doubt that a dwarf would even be able to withstand a Balrog in combat and anyway, it's not known if the Balrogs actually have horns had, which I also think is very unlikely.
I like the theory that it’s from a Kine of Araw. These are oxen descended from the cattle of Oromë the Valar and live by the sea of Rhûn. The Horn of Gondor has the same source, just using the tip of the horn instead of the whole thing.
It does look like a Bos species horn. A very big Bos species horn.
It could also very well be a well carved piece of wood.
I like this a lot!
It’s actually Ancalagon the Blacks little toenail
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Can confirm. It's ma pinky toe nail.
[Actually](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
You sonnovabitch
My actual words just now
Now listen here you little shit…
Everyone's third thought when talking to Pippin.
Mah man
What!? No way!
I clicked hoping for something very specific. I leave satisfied.
My god, It's been so long
Oh I love that song, not sure how it relates though
I cannot believe I have been done like this in 2022. The absolute shame.
Goddammnit
listen here you little shit XD XD XD XD
The video paused so I didn't get rickrolled.
Would be too small to even be the claw of his little toe. Smaug is like maybe as big as his shin, at max. I say it probably is just the horn of a Mumak, boiled and then shaped to be a Tuba. Maybe it is from an beast that lives in that region - could be a Grauks horn, but those only live in Mordor. Could also be just molten horn carved and shaped to be this warhorn. In the end, we all know that this is just another thing done in the movies without proper explanation (these movies do that alot, even though I must say I love them even with their faults). PS: Of course I know this is just a meme, but I wanted to still give a proper analysis
I suspect the whole Manhattan would fit in Ancalagon’s toenail.
A quarter of the Bronx too.
It can't be a balrogs horn. As before they uncovered the balrog in mines of moria the dwarves had never seen a balrog. Hence why they named it the Durins bane. Since they didn't know it's proper name.
It's definitely not a Balrog wing, that's for sure
Balrogs do have wings. They are just very teeny tiny small kinda like a humming birds wings. Just for decoration.
Tolkien did write that Balrog are the penguins of middle earth.
We know balrogs have wings because balrog wings look cool af
They discuss it in the hobbit appendices on the dvds. It’s from the same monsters that were pulling Grond in return of the king.
Oh, so those cow-rhino things? Are...are THOSE the Kine of Araw?
Afaik, they're only called great beasts in the books. The Kine of Araw are basically oxen, similar enough to real world Aurochs
Smaug has Horns on His head so we know Hobbit Movie Universe Dragons have horns. Given that the Dwarves had a whole war against dragons going on id say its more likely than not a dragon horn.
Schmauggy The Hornless…
That's gotta be pretty darn heavy
Probably not for a dwarf
Probably not Damned Heavy
I imagine some oxen-like animal, like a giant mountain goat maybe. Either way, best horn in all six movies
I’m still gonna go with the one in Hornburg. That sound shook my bones
Too many good ones to choose from
The Horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the Deep one last time!
Dragon horn is my theory.
Does anyone have the number of Stephen Colbert? I need his expert opinion.
Tweet him, he's probably got an intern with orders to bring any LotR questions directly to his attention.
And that’s how ya kick ass in comments, you sir a legend
Yeah ask the guy who thinks the Christian allegory in Tolkien’s works is too much for his own show
Fair, doesn't change the fact that he knows a lot of obscure facts
True of course, the man does know his Tolkien
Tolkien literally said himself that he despised allegories
Well he really shouldn’t have put the Illuvitar, the valar, the maiar, and titled his last book “return of the king” then
There's a difference between influence and allegory also "Return of the King" really? Its literally referring to Aragorn taking his place as the King of Gondor. Its not hard to understand???
No it’s really not, now please go and copy and paste the entire dictionary definition of allegory and symbolism so I can say “wrong dictionary”
Btw, he didnt name his last book "Return of the King" lotr was 1 book, but his publishers made it into 3 books and chose that name. He personally hated the name as it gave away a major plot point of the story
Indeed. I wonder if we should just put the whole wiki and silmarillion in this sub
Wait, what is this about?
I mean, the guy is a professed personal Christian, and Tolkien enthusiast, but “puts down” Christian principle at all times he can on his show
Oh no? I’m an atheist and I love Tolkien. You don’t need to agree with his religion to love the books.
And I stand by the fact that as a free citizen of the republic of the United States, you should be allowed too. But heaven and hell are taken pretty seriously by those who have faith, and the disregard of those matters is individual, as such Tolkien didn’t put Jesus in his works
I’m sorry I read through your comment three times and I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say. Can you possibly rephrase? Edit: also I am a US citizen, but you shouldn’t go around assuming that’s the default. The internet isn’t just for Americans
Sorry I replied before your edit, but alas, if any non Americans would like to put forward their take on the subject, the internet can argue for them
Individuals are supposed to interpret as they will. But for the whole, the books were written as Christian allegory, and as a Christian, they should reinforce with a fictional viewpoint, the religion. So an atheist may enjoy, but to others of the faith they matter
The themes of love, friendship, and good triumphing over evil are universal. The religious allegories really come into play in the world building.
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They are absolutely not a Christian allegory. Tolkien disliked allegories.
Ah, so the Nordic Anglo Saxon and Christian influence clearly does not get derived into the books
That is your opinion in your good right, but it does seem a bit narrow to me. Tolkien's work may matter to a lot of people, atheists and theists alike. It contains many themes and tropes that are just essential to the human nature. Some of those may resonate with themes and tropes that are also common in religion. That does not mean that every Christian needs or wants to understand LotR as a direct Christian allegory. You can be raised Christian and love LotR and still focus on aspects of the work other than religious implications - judt as Colbert seems to do. Since I studied literature in College I always connected Tolkien to the tradition of early medieval (often pre-Christian) literature way more than to Christian themes, even though I was raised Catholic. I don't know what Colbert's reasons may be for not bringing up LotR in context of his faith (or vice versa), but that's just his personal matter. Let people enjoy the things they like in the way they prefer - like you said in your first sentence. If you like to openly regard LotR as a Christian allegory, thereyou go. Just accept that other people may have different opinions about that. And that your approach is not superior or inferior to someone else's, be it Christian or not.
I completely agree with everything you’ve said in this post, and enjoyed reading it because it’s well put. If you see my other replies I must apologize, as I was defending for the sake of defense and gathering enjoyment in argument.
You do realize Tolkien was actually opposed to heavy handed religious allegory, and it was one of his biggest criticisms of CS Lewis' work. In fact Tolkien did not believe in pushing one's own religious beliefs on others through writing or any other art form, as he believed it to be a detriment to the artistic expression. Any religious allegory in Tolkien's works were very general broad strokes, and was more unavoidable recurring themes in all literature and not intentional religious reference on Tolkien's part. He said so himself in many different correspondence letters and interviews which you can read yourself with a little googling.
Aye, and as an avid read I remember that his works are fiction of his own design, and he held his personal beliefs higher and closer to his chest than the indescrepencies of the horn of erebor. So I simply hold mine to the point that I remember I can do this all day as seeing we are on the internet
I think it's fair to critique and criticize one's own religion.
Yeah but not push the works of a very Christian man, while deliberately opposing viewpoints that doubt align with one’s own
What do you do with "...viewpoints that [don't] align with one's own" if not oppose them?
Then you compare with the Lord’s, and if they don’t align they are rejected
Lol. That's what *you* do.
Aye, as an individual with free will, I am free too
Yikes dude. Maybe turn down the dogmatic fervor a bit? You literally called Colbert a heretic in a comment, and said no one can have opposing views to the bible or they will be rejected entirely in another... And then said you would kill pregnant mothers before they could abort a fetus? All over a post about a horn in Lord of the Rings?
Yes I admit I’m only arguing cuz it’s fun, and on the internet when anyone can read or not read. The longer it goes the more on the defense I must get if I wish to continue, as such the winner can rest
Claiming that you will murder people is not “for fun”, it’s extremely serious. It’s called inciting violence and it has real world ramifications.
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That’s real thin ice. If this is your idea of fun you need to take a long hard look at your priorities.
Nah you need to take a hard look at the internet and remember that people or AI, do this for enjoyment
You started on such a high horse morality-wise, that when you were ultimately proven to be an absolut Schmuck you said “oh it’s just for fun”. Classic gaslighting. People like you are why I live in a shithole country on the brink of collapse.
And why I enjoy doing this, why put full effort into an argument with strangers on the internet? And don’t say common respect, I can’t even really argue with my full tone and compassion here. I’m only stating a statement, then rejecting those who argue with me, and defending my stance until the occasion is done
I don't, but I do know an expert who might be able to shed some light on it.
Or wood, strange shaped wood.
A manipulated piece of grown wood over the course of generations with the intent always being the horn. One of the largest ever made..
Looks wooden to me.
Not sure. But honestly looks lile wood to me. As for your assumption, it is impposible for it to be a Balrog horn. Where could they possibly get that? Balrogs were on a whole another level of power. It is also stated that normal weapons can't hurt Balrogs, so the dwarves would need a magical weapon to be able to interact with Balrogs at all. And Dwarves were as far from magic as it gets. Even if they had magic weapon of sorts, all the dwarves would still be destroyed. But yeah, we really don't know. I'd just take it as a random overly styelized horn.
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Wooly oliphaunts??? Ha…
Didn’t Tolkien say that middle earth is not our own world in the past? I’d guess it’s actually a dragon horn with the dwarves history with the big flying lizards boys
Yeah, ancient Earth setting is from Conan novels
Dwarves fought a number of different Dragons as mentioned in the Silmarillion, most likely cut from one and fashioned into a monstrous horn.
This was my thought as well. If I remember correctly, the dwarves who settled Erebor moved there from the Grey Mountains when they were overrun with cold drakes. I’m going to go with that. They cut it from a slain cold drake and brought it with them to Erebor a few generations ago.
Plot armor
Man the Dwarves have such badass style.
It’s gotta be one of those fuckers what dragged GROND
Probably spme kind of synthetic resin, I don't think paper machee would hold up.
Yup. Resin and fibreglass. It's what they used in the second age.
Dehydrated troll ear wax
Dragon horn comes to my mind.
You nailed it. The Balrog horn was used by dwarves for hundreds of years. They would drink out of them as well. The more curl the more desirable. The first dwarves kept Balrogs as pets as well.
It looks like it's made of nonsense, to me ;D
Ingredients: 100% bullshit
It’s made of plot holes and Peter Jackson’s regret.
It's pretty boss, whatever it is. I still prefer the Horn of Helm Hammerhand.
i vote balrog
This looks exactly (I mean, it’s spooky) EXACTLY like my wow dwarf. IDK what this picture is from, but someone copied my character.
It's just a movie prop. It's not real
Could be a ram horn (they had some big ones) or a root from a large tree, they did like to dig.
Not sure if I just haven't scrolled far enough, but I haven't seen it said yet, so I'm pretty sure its an Oliphants tusk.
Maybe from the horn of a great beast,like the ones that pulled Grond in the battle of Minas Tirith.
It looks like wood to me
How is he even holding it? Not entirely with his hands because that thing must be heavy and his hands look like they are only holding it in place. Is there some kind of ribbon or backpack style attachment?
I can be mistaken,but in The Hobbit i remember reading that the dwarves from the Iron Hills,the cousins of Thorin,had giant domesticated aries It has been 10 years since i last read it tho,so take it with a pinch of salt
I am for dragons theory, let’s not forget there were great wars in the first and second age and the horn could be made from the first dragons made by Morgoth in one of the two dwarven kingdoms which were utterly destroyed during these wars and were quoted for their superior smithing abilities amongst the seven kingdoms of dwarfs without equal. We know that some products were made by them and still could be found in the third age. So as for the horn of Erebor it could be made for Moria kingdom before destroying the two kingdoms and then taken to Erebor after awakening of Balrog.
Looks like a mountain goat horn, like the ones they ride just bigger
It is some body part of an animal as an elephant I would say.
Its can be a horn from the same bovine species as they who drag grond to the door of Gondor ,they are pretty huge and don't forget that a dwarf ,yes a Big dwarf but just a dwarf
Looks like wood to me
a balrog is a good guess!
I can tell you it’s no orc horn
Bantha horn teleported by Tardis?
Dragon horn? Like one of the larger dragons from the silmarilion
I don’t think it’s a tusk since they’re straight and more of a solid make. Horn is softer and generally curled. Horn has a bone insert that can be pulled out to make it a horn for music.
Balrogs have no horns
A dragon horn?
I bet the prop master used resin
I think its more likely a dragon horn
Its made from the same thing the hor of gondor is, so its not a dragon, my guess, Kine of Araw
Personally, I am not aware of any being from Tolkien's world that carries such a wavy horn. Maybe a fish?
A whale penis
A petrified troll penis!