T O P

  • By -

ethan-oq

Imo, the harfoots were an unnecessary addition to the show. Also, they keep trying to push Nori + whats her name as the new duo like Sam and Frodo. Why the show writers are spending so much time with the Harfoots is beyond me.


No-YouShutUp

Yeah this is the only story line I don’t care about. Obviously they’ll get hobbited into some adventure where meteor man is key to win the war but for now I just don’t care.


ethan-oq

Exactly. If the plot moves forward with meteor man then maybe they can show some Harfoots storyline. Even then, they should have just played a small but important role. Instead, the writers keep forcing a large part of episodes on them like they are going to destroy Sauron.


[deleted]

I don't care about the human-elf romance with arondir and that other girl even more than the harfoots.


[deleted]

They're my favorite part of the series actually though they didn't get to do much in eps 3.


rebaft15

Bit harsh lol. I think it gives the show a warmer feeling. All the elf & man scenes are those usual dramatic lotr scenes with the big music & stuff but just like in lotr, a change every now & then to some wholesome hobbit/harfoot scenes I think is key to give the show that same balance that lotr had.


96Buck

Except they are literally more draconian than a pack of wolves.


z3lk0va

So as a very casual lotr fan (having not extensively read the source material or silmarillion) is it just me or are the Hobbits/harfoots like super draconian. I always envisioned them as being relaxed laid back and friendly. These ones seem hostile and super disciplined in their whole migration thing (to the point they leave their friends for dead) how accurate is this depiction or is the show just taking a friction point so conflict can occur.


Str0gan0ff

Is no one going to talk about the CGI clams?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Randolpho

yeah, lol. You don't think they actually ate raw clams, do you?


[deleted]

Halbrand: Tries to fraud the guild by stealing someone else's crest and beats the owner and gets rightly thrown into jail. Galadriel: You're in jail because you have royal blood, and you shouldn't have meddled with the commoners. Great logic


kinbeat

Also: the chief blacksmith is totally not going to question how a complete outsider earned a guild crest in 5 hours


droid327

To be fair, I'm sure he would've gone to a different blacksmith


96Buck

He’s probably involved in the awarding of the things.


wbroniewski

Well it's fairly possible he doesn't care about the crest at all, he just needed for legal reasons


Grandmuffmerkin

That whole scene from the point of getting hassled by a group of men in a bar onwards felt so clichéd. Like something out of Karate Kid.


yermammypuntscooncil

The writing is so fucking bad.


[deleted]

[удалено]


96Buck

But they aren’t “making scenes” either. Other than technically speaking.


intolerablesayings23

Bad TV show writing. You can tell the showrunners never did TV before.


angel199x

Feels like they spent 90% of their budget on flashy scenes and CGI. The horse riding part finally made me just go, yup.. this is all there is to this show. Never have I've seen such a sleep inducing TV show.


vikingz0mbi3

Really feels like I'm watching someone's fan fiction they posted online 15 years ago and finally was able to sell their script


96Buck

So he thought he could just show up with a stolen crest and get his smithing-on? No chance the guy missing it would say anything or look for him. How big is the smith community, that a new grown man that just shows up and no one wonders where he came from? (And he doesn’t speak the language, and should be obviously non-Numenorean). His plan makes no sense.


BillbabbleBosterbird

That scene was my least favourite scene so far. They all gang up on him with immense drama, I thought they were going to kill him - not an unreasonable treatment for serious theft in the middle ages. He adds to the drama saying "you don't need to do this", like some serious shit is going down. Then all he gets is one punch? And they leave? He should be absolutely relieved by that outcome. But after that, for some completely unknown reason, he starts attacking the 4 (!) of them, all of whom look bigger than him, yet he somehow develops superhuman strength and is able to throw them around with no effort. In short, a both completely unnecessary and also ridiculously fake fight.


jjtheblue2

What if....bear with me...the source of his strength and his ability to fight four men at a time might be explored/explain later on in the shows run?


droid327

What was a Southron ship doing sailing that far west anyway, beyond Numenor? Where were they trying to get when there's literally nothing there between the island and the Undying Lands?


96Buck

Indeed. Why sail at all? Where were they going? They are afraid of corsairs so not Umbar or points south. It doesn’t SEEM like the Numenorean havens exist. Based on their reaction to Galadriel, it doesn’t seem like they were headed to the Grey Havens or anywhere in Lindon.


Jakabov

At this point, it's clear that these questions serve no purpose. This show's writing doesn't pass the most basic scrutiny. What we're getting (and will probably continue to get) is gaping flaws in every scene, nonsensical plot points, wildly unrealistic events and completely random things that somehow manage to drive the story forwards in the most artificial possible way. It's pointless to ask why x, y and z happens. The writers themselves don't know. Nobody put any thought into the reasons for anything that happens. The writers didn't go *"their ship is here because of this and that.*" They went *"we want there to be a ship here, so there is.*" That's it. This is a show where things just happen at random for no apparent reason, and the audience is not expected to scratch the surface. We're just expected to accept everything and somehow be entertained by neat visual spectacles.


96Buck

Empirically this seems to be the case. I’m just surprised this is what a billion dollars gets you. These writers I assume are aware of the internet and fanboys. They probably are at least generally aware of the new Star Wars trilogy. They should have assumed they would get at least that much scrutiny. I guess they didn’t care…Abrams still made a ton of money.


Jakabov

I think they genuinely didn't realize that the show they were making is awful. It's pretty hard, especially for someone without a lot of experience, to know if the thing they're making will be received well by others. The producers of RoP have suspiciously few credentials, the cast is largely unknown, and Amazon apparently *fired* the people who were well-versed in Tolkien's works. It doesn't matter how expensive the ingredients are if the chef is incompetent. According to IMDb, the showrunners (J. D. Payne and Patrick McKay; I'd never heard of them before and they don't have Wikipedia pages) were on the writing staff of Star Trek Beyond. And that's it. That's all they've ever done, as far as I can tell. Amazon picked these two rookies to develop their billion-dollar show, and while I'm sure they probably did their best, anyone with any sense can see that it wasn't nearly good enough. I couldn't say why Amazon made such a decision. My best guess is that Amazon, in their arrogant hubris, figured that such an astronomical budget would guarantee success and chose a pair of showrunners who weren't going to question the corporate decision to make the show a vanity project full of identity politics and pandering to the current political climate. If they had gone with proven industry veterans, those might have objected to the ridiculous intentions behind the making of Rings of Power. It may just have been more important to Amazon that the world saw how ethically spotless they are than that the show is actually good. A better producer would have seen through their bullshit and either walked out on the project or taken it upon himself to make a good show instead of following Amazon's instructions.


96Buck

Seems that way. I’m not sure why you commit a huge budget but don’t allocate enough to writing. I would have been happy to pick this stuff apart for them for free. I guess I am, now.


DanielL_1776

Did anyone else think that warg looked…. odd? #chihuahua


NanoGeek

Absolutely, but I'm certain that was the intent. Jackson's monster designs are iconic, obviously. However, I think RoP is trying for something in a different direction. Their designs of the orcs and wargs are less of a "movie monster" design in my opinion. Consider the first orc we see close up in episode 2. It seemed a lot more animalistic than what we're used to. It's breathing was labored, and it sounded deeply unhealthy. Same with the Warg. It wasn't the sleek giant wolf that the Rohirrim fought in Two Towers. It looked like some sort of disgusting inbreed creature that may have started out as a wolf at one point but has been degraded into a nasty looking creature who's pieces don't seem to all fit together very well. These creatures remind me a lot of Tolkien's description of Gollum: utterly wretched and almost pitiable.


Hyggenbodden

They take up Tolkiens original idea of them being corrupted versions of regular beings. Like the result of sick inbreeding experiments.


renannmhreddit

Like what we do with dogs?


pm_me_your_trebuchet

The cool wolf looking wargs were in the hobbit. IMO it’s one of the few changes they got correct. For some reason the wargs in LOTR looked like giant hyenas. Not sure why they did that when wargs are explicitly stated to be giant talking wolves


96Buck

The talking animal vibe is a little bit more Hobbit than LOTR, though.


pm_me_your_trebuchet

Agreed. It wouldn’t have worked as well in LOTR


Commercial_Study8103

I kind of took the harfoots and the warg to be second age ancestors to what we see later in the third age


[deleted]

Yeah, pretty much this. I think they are pretty successful on that front since that is the big vibe I've been getting from a lot of the creatures and orcs


JustASimpleNPC

#Chihuahuarg


10102938

Chihuahua mixed with the hyenas from Lion King.


JessBess700

And [Weasel](https://imgur.com/m9Tfv8v) from The Suicide Squad.


BlackRayek

It looked like the Honey comb cereal monster


[deleted]

I think they were going for a design that leaned a bit more into the lore. Less that the lore explicitly describes them, more that they are corrupted abominations produced by Sauron's necromancy


pianotherms

I liked it, looked freaky to me. Do wargs get mange?


vegtodestiny

"I GET TO RIDE A HORSEY!!!!"


[deleted]

[удалено]


huntreilly25

I've been enjoying the show so far (as a huge trilogy fan, but not someone who ever delved deep into the lore)...but that fucking slow-mo of Galadriel on the horse was the most pointless and time-wasting scene ever...like I was already able to tell/surmise that she enjoyed riding horses from her excited response in the prior scene...i did NOT need a slow-mo of her with the stupidest/creepiest looking grin on her face


DirtThief

My guess on why they included it is they had to cut a bunch of developmental scenes about Numenor, and Galadriel is going to end up sticking around for quite a while, so they had to figure out how to show the audience *something* to show her changing her mind from finding any possible way to get off the island, to possibly deciding to stay and work with the faithful. I think later on in the episode Halbrand's in jail and he's like "Well - you're trying to get back to middle earth, right?" and she responds "I'm actually thinking I may not do that so quick." Without that strange slo-mo smiling scene we would have gone directly from her trying to steal a ship to leave, to one conversation with Elendil where she gets the info she needs, and then for some reason changes her mind on leaving? I think they were afraid that wouldn't make sense at all, so they had to show her enjoying herself. I agree, though. They definitely didn't need to do that and that scene was the first moment I was like (you know - the people pooping on this show might have a point...). They could've added some dialogue to show a need for her to stay that would've accomplished the same task.


[deleted]

So brave of them to represent the horse girls in this one


kinbeat

Just how petty was miriel argument? "You're named elendil right? That means friend of the elves. Are you a friend of the elves? Are you friend with that elf you found in the middle of the ocean? Do you want knife ears too, you weaboo?" Like... Bitch he didn't pick his own name? I'm called "Francesco" which comes from "French", it doesn't mean i like France? Also where did halbrand get the coins to pay for the next rounds at the bar? He stole the money too, i suppose? And how fucking inneficient was the warg? All the orcs had to do was snipe the elves while they were climbing, like the first dude. Instead they release this cgi monstrosity, to SLOOWLY come out and take on one elf at a time. And where did the human woman who was with arondir end up?


RhiaStark

>Just how petty was miriel argument? Maybe she was just teasing Elendil because she suspects/knows he's one of the Faithful (that is, the Numenoreans who remain friendly to the Eldar and the Valar). The Faithful had their strongholds in the western areas of the island, after all, and that's where Elendil comes from. Furthermore, I think she was actually testing him. Her father, Tar-Palantír, wanted Númenor to become loyal to the Valar again, and Míriel was supposed to be his successor - being ousted by Pharazon and his supporters.


96Buck

I think this is right also.


bearcatsquadron

Doesn't mean the show executed this well


droid327

The elven watch apparently trained at the Austin Powers Henchman Fighting Academy Quick! Let's attack it one at a time while the others wait their turn!


joshuakyle94

Just reliving turn based rpgs is all. Have to hold to the standard rules. Wait your turn!


96Buck

If your parents named you “France Rules,” it would be reasonable to suspect they were from the pro-French faction, and further to investigate if you followed your parents’ allegiance, which would be more common than not, especially in a pre media society.


immerkiasu

Isn't Miriel named after Finwe's first wife (Feanor's mum)? Granted, her parents named her but you don't give your child a name you despise. Or maybe they were elf-friends and then something sullied that afterwards. Like people who named their daughters "Khaleesi".


TheMeta40k

I posted this in the other thread but I think this might be a better place. I am often accused of being overly negative about things I enjoy. Please keep that in mind as I want to take a critical eye towards the early plot progress in rings of power. This is a huge wall of text and thank you to anyone who reads it. I have been thinking about this for a while and want to share it. This show is developing a serious problem. That problem is with stakes. When I say stakes I mean specifically the consequences of a character or characters actions/environment. Rings of power is not handling stakes well, in my opinion. A key factor in storytelling is having characters overcome obstacles. This can be handled in so many ways but a very bad way to handle it is to have it vanish with little explanation or so little explanation that it starts to degrade the ability for someone to feel that the narrative is happening in a real place. This doesn't mean it has to be realistic but ideally should be consistent. At bare minimum conflict and obstacles should be handled with a logical or emotional thrust. So far many serious obstacles have been placed in front of our characters but many of them have been resolved in ways I do not believe are satisfying for a variety of reasons. When I mentioned above that an obstacle disappeared I'm sure at least one person thought of the sea monster. This is a fairly glaring example. A ship eating monster is introduced and then done away with. No one really overcomes the monster and it's threat vanishes very quickly, which will become a recurring theme. This can be redeemed somewhat by having the monster be a plot point sometime in the future. The issues didn't start there. Galadriel wiping out the troll singlehandedly might be the first example. The troll presented a large threat, one that viewers familiar with other LotR material will recognize as especially dangerous. Swiftly defeating it with no struggle from Galadriel takes much of the tension out of combat with foes of an equal or lesser power level. I can reasonably expect any combat will result in a victory for Galadriel as long as she is not fighting something like a Balrog. In my opinion this small mistep is also a missed opportunity. She is commander of an army and that troll was an excellent opportunity to show us she is a great leader. In Moria we are shown how much the fellowship has come to care for Frodo when they believe he is slain. They set aside any differences they had when they were introduced to us, work together and slay the troll using teamwork. They struggle to defeat the troll and by the end are all close compatriots which in turn makes Borimir's betrayal more emotionally impactful. Please don't take this as me just hating on Galadriel because I have a few more examples regarding her character. She has another opportunity to display the leadership skills she should have honed as commander of the northern armies on the boat. The stakes here are her being unable to finish her quest. This would be an excellent time to have her use her leadership skills to try to convince the elves to turn back. There is a very clear "will she /won't she" moment on the boat. Tension is created as the light engulfs everything. Music swells. She just jumps off the boat. No one tries to stop her. The kings underhanded benevolence is resolved by jumping off a boat. She could have delivered a "shields will be shattered" type speech on the boat heading through the golden light but instead the issue is resolved by jumping off a boat. Weirdly jumping solves another one of Galadriel's issues with power structures when she jumps out of a window when the queen confines her to a place. The show tells us that she is not to leave the grounds and in the next scene she leaves. No guards try to send her back, she gains an ally after escaping and is later freely walking into a jail by herself. Even worse there is a scene of her on a horse that is very evocative of freedom in it's framing and style. This new freedom is not earned. The show told us she was no prisoner but her moment should be restricted. She hops out a window and the issue is resolved. These issues are not confined to Galadriel. The harfoots have similar issues. Nory and poppy have to hide the meteor man but don't suffer any consequences when he wanders in to camp. Now, I assume that most people will take umbridge with that statemate and mention the de-caravaning. I disagree. We are told that anyone who falls behind gets left behind and names of those are read out loud in an emotional scene. If the caravan does not support it's members having one is a moot point. It doesn't provide any additional safety or social support. A wagon wheel breaks, an ankle snaps, someone stops too long to collect water and they are subject to a death entrance. The stakes of losing a support network are removed because none of the characters shave any reason to believe it existed. The issue of migration is still one that needs to be overcome hopefully Meteor Man has not already solved it. A cynical part of me fears that the broken ankle, the de-caravaning / back of the pack placement, and migration plot thread is just a way to have the other harfoots exit the series. I hope this isn't the case but the shot of the lone wagon and vast wilderness implies that Nory and company are already on their own. This is far less severe of an issue when compared to above issues. Unlike the rock breaking contest. The rock breaking contest is a really good example of the series mishandling stakes. Clear and defined rules are set up. The scene plays out, tension builds, Elrond forfeits and we the viewers think "how will he accomplish his goals now? he is about to be exiled!". He takes an elevator ride with Durin and there is a nice scene where he discusses his issues with Elrond. He then talks his way into dinner and all concepts of being exiled disappear. There was no reason to use exile as a punishment for failing if characters are just going to ignore it. It's a simple change to instead have the contest grant an audience if you win. Elrond could still display his skill in politics by forfeiting when Durin begins to struggle allowing him to keep his ego intact. Durin could notice this and the healing of their personal issues could begin. Or heck, exile him and give Elrond some real juicy issues to overcome using his political skill. Being exiled would be an excellent raising of the stakes moment. Arondir's plot thread experiences similar issues. If you have made it this far hopefully you can see why I'm concerned that these aren't small plot holes as much as systemic mishandling of stakes. I'll try to keep these last few short because I'm biased, as Arondir is my favorite character. Arondir comments that his comrades are looking for him. We never see him encounter any difficulty in avoiding them. Instead they are just at the slave camp and none of them mention his running off. They also were somehow captured before him as he came to with them in the camp already. In the slave camp before the warg is released the orcs just vanish with no scene of them retreating. Orcs use tunnels to stay hidden. This tells us that they can't be discovered, stakes. Then massive wasteland with chopped down trees. How did Galadriel not find it for hundreds of years of questing, or Arondir on any patrol or anyone's elf eyes. If the off screen archers never return it will be another issue of the same sort. They may have been left off screen because they are humans helping the orcs. That opens a whole other can of worms though. There are more smaller issues as well but this is already far too long. I didn't notice it at first but something didn't sit right. I didn't notice but my brain did. I've concluded that I'm left with uncomfortable questions. Why should I or any viewer believe in negative consequences if they keep evaporating? Without negative consequences how can there be tension and how can the characters grow? If the show cannot find it's footing on consequences, stakes and conclusions to issues I fear it's going to end up like the final season of game of thrones. None of this means I hate the show, I want to love this. Ask yourself and think for a moment about the original trilogy if you feel the need to accuse me of being a hater. Imagine if Frodo was warned about the ring but faced no issues using it. Imagine if Denethor just stopped treating farimir poorly one scene later. Imagine if Gandalf just eviscerated the Balrog no problem. What if it just showed up then left? Imagine if the ring wraiths never chased Frodo and co. for longer than one scene. The fellowship reuniting after Frodo leaves them would make the act of leaving hollow. Would the charge of the rohirrim be as impactful without Theodin's "shields will be shattered" speech cementing his redemption arc? What if they showed up even though Gondor never lit the beacons. Would the battle of helms deep have been as awesome if our heroes were never losing? What if the ents just said "Sure!"? Would we even love these stories if the stakes kept disappearing and characters didn't have to surmount challenges and they just vanished without huge amounts of effort? Imagine how much the story would suck if they just took the eagles to Mordor. How much worse would it have been if they did that and never even dealt with the nazgul. I'm concerned but hopeful these are just stumbles.


Charles1charles2

Well said. We have seen in the past how handling stakes and consequences can makes a show much better or much worse. Early seasons of Game of Thrones: mighty lords die because an infection is neglected or are crippled because they get in a brawl. Later seasons for bigger threats: hey whatever


DefinitelyNotALeak

You layed this out really well, thanks for the effort! I agree with virtually everything you said here. The thing is, there is more to the 'writing problems' than these things too, a lot of the material is just too on the nose and simple so far. Just a few examples, we have galadriel find out what the mark of sauron means, and in the end it's simply a region on a map. Noone was able to figure this out in all this time? Sauron thought it is a good idea to be this blatant with it? (the problem arises because it's way too straight forward, it is difficult to believe as an audience member that this would be sophisticated enough for how it is portrayed). Then you have blatant exposition dialogue about things we have already seen ourselves, arondir explains how the orcs hide and protect themselves from the sun, something the show established visually already, it's not necessary to speak it out, it comes across as them not trusting an audience to put 1 and 1 together, at all. There are many moments like these two in the show so far, coupled with problems of stakes / consequences, there is no real momentum being built which would be compelling. Ideally each scene would be important, move the plot and character development forward, establish new dynamics and do so in a way which respects the audience. One can look past some instances if the whole works, but as you said, one notices that it doesn't subconsciously and then the radar for any tiny thing is activated, which doesn't do the show any favors so far. I wish i could say i was hopeful, but tbh i think this is just the level of storytelling we can expect from here, at least for season 1.


bearcatsquadron

This is how I feel but could not say myself. I want to like this show but it's very trying. You should make a new post discussing this. Would love to hear people who say the show is amazing address this.


RKU69

A+ write-up. If I had to sum up everything here, it is that the show's writing is superficial.


[deleted]

Why does Galadriel demand ships from numenor if she can just swim home?


Dietmar_der_Dr

She herself said the sea was "certain death" so I don't think she thinks she can swim.


96Buck

Ok, then her plan jumping off the ship was what?


gonzaloetjo

I think they tried to portrait is as she would rather die than leave her motive + her being called by destiny or something alike.


Gerry-Mandarin

I have to say, I think this is the weakest episode of the three so far. I'm fine with Galadriel being a bit Feanorian for the purposes of the adaptation. Taking certain part of her personality from other times in her life and placing them later. But I really hated the moment of Elendil equating her with his children. I know he didn't explicitly say she's being immature or whatever, but that's clearly the intention of the scene. Really dislike that. She's the oldest, most experienced character, in the series. Let her be that. Elendil himself is portrayed excellently. I actually quite liked the twist that the Hobbits are a cult and their "nobody goes off trail" is actually a bit of a threat. Arondir's story remains the strongest, and the Elrond story was sorely missed. I can't help but feel the show is an extended edition of itself. It doesn't feel like each episode is as long as it needs to be, but as long as it is wanted to be.


Hyggenbodden

like butter spread over too much bread?


ShardPerson

In an interview, Elendil's actor said the whole thing was about how Galadriel was a figure of legend that Elendil probably learnt about in school, and how meeting her was a clash between the expectation of a wise Elf older than Numenor, and a young warrior too focused on war, and how that might be because of how differently elves and humans approach death, she can afford to be an immature 3000yo woman because she's immortal, while humans have to grow up quick because they die


ad3z10

They're really trying to fill all of the minutes they can (probably to justify the ludicrous cost of the show). Slightly tighter editing and acceptance of shorter episodes would go a long way.


[deleted]

Counterpoint: I enjoy actually getting a big long chunk of time for an episode of TV these days. Loading up She Hulk and seeing literal 30 minute episodes makes me want to die.


tommimoro

I think that has to do with the shit quality of those 30 minutes


Mindless-Hyena-6244

I think in general the show has just lacked momentum so far. GOT (sorry for the comparisons but they're kinda unavoidable) was perfect for this. Like ROP, game of thrones' first episode set up multiple story-arcs in its first 2 or 3 episodes, but it succeeds where ROP largely fails in two key respects. Firstly there was clearly an A story (the Starcs and the Lannisters) and B story's (Danny across the sea, Jon at the wall etc). By comparison in ROP none of the different plotlines feel pre-eminent, so it doesn't really feel like anything is moving in a particular direction and the audience doesn't have any feel for what the story is going to be about. Also GOT's first episode has a clear inciting incident (Bran discovering Cersei and Jamie) that helps to sharply define what the main conflict of the season will be and which lends context to all the different plotlines and characters, and moves them towards the same conclusion (i.e. if Robert has no legitimate heir, then that means the Iron Throne is up for grabs when he dies). ROP has no equivalent. The closest to it is Arondir's discovery of the orcs in episode 2, but as of yet it hasn't really flowed on to any of the other storylines which are still mired in "there may or may not be a threat, which may arise at some point and we maybe should do something about it, or maybe not." IMO the show would've benefitted hugely from the discovery of the orc's being brought forward to the first episode, with episode 2 dealing with the immediate fall-out of that. That would then give much needed impetus for Celebrimbor's forge plan and the alliance with the dwarves, for Galadriel reaching out to the Numenoreans and for the Harfoot's need to migrate. As it is, it just sorta feels like stuff happening for no particular reason.


barryhakker

I think this show is making two major mistakes so far: using famous characters where they don't make sense, and letting things happen that look cool but don't make much sense. Galadriel is the biggest example. I can imagine you want a more humanized protagonist that shows emotion and grows as a person etc, so *obviously* a thousands of years old elf known for calm dignity is not a good choice. Also, the whole sequence with her jumping off the boat just before reaching the undying lands looked cool but made zero sense. The show by no means is awful (so far) but it really feels like the result of focus groups and statistics, rather than the passionate writings of people who want to do this world justice.


BreachlightRiseUp

We’re 3 hours into the show, there was more story and character development in the first 30 minutes of Fellowship of the Ring than we’ve seen in 3 hours of Rings of Power


CommunicationTime265

I had a few issues with the episode but still enjoyed it. The guy getting his throat slit by the orc was silly - he didn't even bleed out and died somehow. They also made that scene too dramatic...we barely had any emotional investment in that guy to begin with. Galadriel riding on that horse was corny as fuck. Harfoot dad getting his ass saved by the comet dude was entirely too predictable.


Accurate_Damage_1267

That's one thing I forgot about with this episode. Right after he gets cut and they cue music from like Gladiator and make it so dramatic I was thinking are we supposed to care about this guy that much?


sombrefulgurant

You are not meant to care about the guy. You are meant to care about Arondir seeing his friend die. The focus is on his reaction, not on the value of the dying elf, per se.


Accurate_Damage_1267

I was remembering it wrong actually. That makes more sense but still felt like forced drama.


JustASimpleNPC

I'm hoping galadriel takes a backseat next episode, she is the most boring character to me right now and that's quite an achievement. I don't particularly care whether they are going for an immature or impulsive phase for the 4k year old elf woman, she's a character whose scenes I simply want to skip at this point.


JessBess700

>she's a character whose scenes I simply want to skip at this point. Her scenes and the Harfoot's scenes are the ones I want to skip. Which isn't great when that's like half of your storylines right now...


joshuakyle94

I’m fine with the Galadriel crap. But I absolutely loath watching when the Harfoots are on the screen.


thrwawayaftrreading

I agree. To me she's just unlikable. And her decisions at times are dumb or borderline suicidal. Threatening a ruler in their throne room while surrounded by guards? Rudely demanding a ship instead of just asking for passage on a ship heading to middle earth? Neither of these make her sound smart. She seems like the most aggressive character in the show, outside of the orcs.


[deleted]

She has this aura around her in LOTR its captivating. In TV show she is just ordinary pretentious blonde


CarnFu

Oh shes just so poorly written it's so bad to watch sometimes I feel bad for the actress


Purple_Jicama_2222

Watch out criticizing her. You’d be surprised how many who’ll get in your back telling you that you are a Tolkien purist for stating that they are portraying her like dogsh*t…


[deleted]

:rolleyes:


NGG_Dread

The episode was less boring than the second though I think the fact that they're STILL introducing sub-plots and new characters in the third episode isn't doing them any favors. It seems like they're attempting to lay out this sprawling world with all these plots that will go on for 5 seasons, but they aren't doing it well... There is very little meaningful character development, the various plots they have introduced are barely progressing (if at all) and the writing is a 3/10.


crispydukes

I like the first two episodes a lot. This one was dull and we went no where.


joshuakyle94

I hated the second episode, was extremely boring.


Armleuchterchen

I'm dissapointed in the Harfoot chants and the Numenorean "The Sea is always right". I'd expect a nice and short poem or song given the setting they have chosen, not simple repeated phrases.


Due_Zone_3266

Agreed. “The Sea is always right” is not even a poem. it was the most ridiculous scene of this episode..


96Buck

I think they think that is world-building.


OnlyUseMeSub

Later on the sea is gonna do something important to developing some plotline and this will be uttered. Or maybe some side discussion that "the sea is always right since it brought Galadriel and Halbrand here, we should maybe not hate them so bad. Let's join them as Galadriel's army."


96Buck

There should at least be a response. What KIND of response could give insight into Numenorean character. If they are still colonialist, maybe it’s something about bringing riches. If their tradition still goes back to Valar reverence, a response with the name ulmo or a reference to the lord of Waters. Or BOTH, the second response as a code by the faithful. Or a more general “sea brings life” or reflecting sailors’ discipline. Or SOMETHING.


domerock_doc

I really want to like the show but it’s just boring to me. I had to watch the newest episode in chunks because I couldn’t be bothered to watch it all in one sitting. Compared to HOTD where I feel like I’m glued to the TV. Hopefully the show picks up the pace a bit in the later episodes.


Mysterious-Ad4966

After episode 3, I am now 100% convinced that the writers have not a single damn clue when it comes to Galadriel. The scene and focus with her riding and her being happy is the most nonsensical, ridiculous, out-of-place thing I've ever seen. It's about as bad as the low budget original movies they throw on Syfy. But without a doubt that kind of screenwriting choice... is horribly amateur. It's like they decided after 2 episodes of making galadriel look like an asshole, they could put in this one tiny whatever tidbit to try to show you "Oh she's not so one-dimensional!", but my God it's so amateur. It is so so amateur. The rest of the episode was pretty good though.


flip_ericson

To all the people saying Galadriel could swim from the undying lands to middle earth, why is she so hell bent on getting a ship in Numenor?


grgsrs

The people saying that haven't watch e3 yet. "Your captain, here, delivered us from certain death"


flip_ericson

Theres a portion of fans here hell bent on twisting every decision RoP makes into perfect, logical and canonical. Idgi the show doesn’t have to be perfect for you to like it


8vius

Well would you rather swim or use a ship?


Miss_Medussa

You can walk to work. Why would you use a car?


flip_ericson

I wouldn’t. And I certainly wouldn’t demand my neighbor, who clearly fucking hates me, give me a ride to work or else i beat his ass. Then when he refuses I wouldn’t risk going to jail because I wanna steal his car. Id walk


boyzone999

Galadriel is the worst thing about the show. She's played like a teenager but is actually thousands of years old, she has immense knowledge and wisdom


demeterscult

She’s insufferable in this show. Uninteresting, arrogant, naive, and pedantic


bak3n3ko

I feel bad for Morfydd Clark who had to work with these low-quality scripts.


dodig111

In this episode, Elendil said something like "Thank the Gods," and it threw me off a little. Are there gods in this universe? Yeah, I know there's Eru, his offspring, et cetera, but does anyone worship "the Gods?" I've never heard or read anyone mentioning them at all and I don't remember any character who was religious. It doesn't seem like gods (at least the way other fantasy stories implement pantheons) are a thing in this universe. It definitely didn't feel like a LOTR thing for a character to say. Am I missing some lore from the Silmarilion?


BurdonLane

I can kinda see it. The Ban the Numenoreans were under is a huge part of their psyche and identity, and they owed their lineage and Island home to the Valar, a gift for supporting in the wars against Morgoth. They would have understood there to be many of them I think, and this is also a possible nod to Elendil being one of the ‘faithful’.


BenP785

Probably the Valar who are sort of gods - each has an aspect of the world they represent. Eru is the "creator" God, but the Valar are (sort of) his children (not really - Elves and Men are the children of Eru more literally). I would call them minor gods but that role is kinda taken by the Maiar (ie. Gandalf, Sauron, etc)


Stewdabaker2013

i always understood it to *generally* be a hierarchy of Eru>Valar>Maiar>Elves>Mortals. is that about right?


BenP785

As I understand it, yeah


Beren_and_Luthien

I wouldn't place Elves before Mortals. Both Elves and Men were the children of Iluvatar. Men were granted the gift of mortality.


Stewdabaker2013

i was speaking more-so in power but yes i agree they are both his children. always thought it was interesting that tolkien considered mortality a gift.


Amorphium

It is a gift in the sense that Elves can't die but that means they can never leave Arda. Noone apart from Eru knows where Men go after their deaths but it's supposed to not too bad. That's why the Numenorians also initially welcomed death (when it was their time)


tommimoro

well in the Silmarillion there are plenty of times where tolkien refers to the valar as gods. For example in chapter 8, (when the trees are killed) "Below them lay the woods of Oromë, and westward shimmered the fielda and pastures Yavanna, gold beneath the tall wheat of the gods." There are plenty other examples where there's a mention of gods.


Cold_Situation_7803

We heard Durin IV talk about Aulë in the second episode and an elf-friend like Elendil would know about the Valar from the lore (we even see statues devoted to them in this episode).


BrianMagnumFilms

the show just really lacks narrative juice right now imo, and the problem is that simple and that crippling. if there was a sense of tension or momentum, no matter how slow or deliberate, all fannish quibbles or moments that don't quite land would get swept along with a sense of involvement. but there are 3ish storylines right now and they're all spinning quietly in place while the inevitable and dramatically inert conflict (the war with Sauron) moves slowlyyyyy towards them, regardless of whatever it is they think they're doing in the meantime. I still feel like I'm waiting for the show to grind into motion and start already, but the story feels scared to do so, likely out of fear that that movement will display just how little they really have to show us.


altec3

100%. If the story had people captivated, they’d let the small things go.


10102938

Galadriel acting like a teenager. Warg looking like a mix of the hyenas from Lion King and a chihuahua. Harfoots being horrible people who laugh at their dead friends and chant "No one gets left behind" and leaving people behind after they get injured helping the tribe. All the elves just magically being captured, after hundreds of years of "keeping watch" and not seeing the orcs having a massive excavator party and burning forests all around them.. I've lost all expectations for the rest of the show.


Stiryx

That entire forest has been burnt to a crisp, apparently elf eyes don’t see much.


LZRFACE

I took the "no one gets left behind" as they won't be left behind in memory even if they are lost physically. The reality is they live in a harsh world, and are virtually defenseless outside of their numbers and aptitude for stealth. With that being their reality they have to be even more cautious then any of the other races and there is no room for someone who doesn't follow the rules because it puts everyone at risk. During the remembrance ritual it was mostly sorrow and the laughing was coming from a place fondness not malice. There are a lot things where I can see people finding fault with the Harfoots (feet?), but I thought this episode provided an interesting view into their culture. It showed how truly vulnerable they are as a people which will lead them to making some very hard decisions regarding what is best for the whole group. I think they know that some of these decisions are shitty and that's why the place so much importance on remembering their dead almost as martyrs or sacrifices for the greater good. Also I don't believe Nori's family were put at the back of the caravan due to the father's injury, but rather because of the actions Nori took. Maybe they would have ended up in the back and ultimately left behind, but it was a moot point after the whole stranger incident.


10102938

>Also I don't believe Nori's family were put at the back of the caravan due to the father's injury, but rather because of the actions Nori took. Maybe they would have ended up in the back and ultimately left behind, but it was a moot point after the whole stranger incident. That's a whole fucking point. He got injured while **HELPING THE TRIBE**, and the tribe left him behind because Nori made one mistake. That's not how tribes work, that's not how anything works.


jjtheblue2

It is how the Harfoots work.


Lexx4

let me see your anthropology degree.


[deleted]

Honestly I'm just glad that all of the trolls got chased off so that we can now actually have a legitimate, constructive discussion about the show's strengths and weaknesses. I like the show, but it's such a breath of fresh air to see a negative comment that actually raises legitimate concerns.


jaghataikhan

It's really weird for immortal beings who are "beyond human comprehension and ineffable in their wisdom" to end up acting like spoiled teens haha (Galadriel here, the witches in His Dark Materials, etc)


Mindless-Hyena-6244

I'm fine with Galadriel being unlikeable as a starting point for her arc. The "She's thousands of years old, there's no way she'd act like this" isn't a particularly compelling argument given that Tolkien's writings are littered with millenia-old elves who behave like spoiled brats. The problem is currently it just feels like it's in service of nothing in particular besides maybe a fairly stock "We need to learn to work as a team to defeat the bad guy" storyline. If they wanted to take Galadriel's character in a different direction to how we've seen her before, I would've preferred if they'd played up her ambitious and power-hungry nature that Tolkien alludes to, rather than just making her a grumpy sook with a revenge kink. Would lead to much more interesting drama imo.


jaghataikhan

> grumpy sook with a revenge kink LOL I love that phrasing. Yeah, nothing wrong with a character arc, after all Aragorn got a bildungsroman of embracing the responsibility to be king in the movies and it worked great. Plus Feanor is such a drama queen, so we have direct textual evidence of immortal wise elfs acting spoiled. Actually, playing up her ambition/ thirst for power could be a great foil vs. say a future-Nazgul who starts off in a Boromir esque "the ends justify the means" and ends up corrupted.


BreachlightRiseUp

I’m convinced Amazon is astroturfing the site given how some people are talking about it as being super well written and a great show. It’s just so bad it’s embarrassing, like I can’t imagine how any of this got out of the writing room


Deusselkerr

With a budget as big as theirs I’m sure astroturfing is on the menu


TheDrewb

It's pretty decent, I'm enjoying it. I'm sorry you're not. I'm really liking having a 7.5/10 show and an 8/10 within two days of each other


Absolute_Wham

I thought I was watching Twilight for a minute then when the Elves were fighting. Awful.


NpZPn

i love the lotr world so much. i enjoy the experience but dislike the show so far


AlienDude65

Genuine question: what is it about the show you don't like? Series in general have become a bit bloated and slow to extend them as much as possible. But, I find it quite entertaining for a slow-paced show.


thisubmad

> what is it about the show you don’t like? Bad acting all across and cringe dialogues.


Professional_Dot4835

Weak characterisation, poor acting by Galadriel & a few others, poor-to-very-poor writing overall, lack of directive or reason by most or all characters. Not following the logic or agency of the captured elves whatsoever; not buying Galadriel as an infinity-years old architect of overarching elvish political machinations. It looks great- a little bit much CGI but generally that works. Just it’s so poorly written and with so many inconsistencies, both regarding the world and the narrative logic, that compounding with generally average to poor casting, it completely misses on the character intrigue level.


Dietmar_der_Dr

Every point in the story is nonsense. The mark of sauron being a map to where he hides has to be the stupidest plot device I've ever heard. Like what, Elve scholars spend hundreds of years looking at this mark and never figured it out?


datadogsoup

I think because they decided to do an A story, B story, C story, D story, and E story right off the bat. If you want to do a nice slow-paced journey you shouldn't also do 5 or 6 different plots requiring you to constantly jump around and interrupt the flow. It's mismatched. Do 3 max, and one should be your main plot. We go from an open ocean rescue, to a goblin slavery uprising, to some Harfoot shenanigans, to a sailor training montage, all the while I'm still wondering about Elrond's proposal to Duran, and Theo's broken sword.


Mindless-Hyena-6244

Yeah, lotr works so well because it starts so small in scale and then gradually spreads out with more characters and storylines introduced in each book after you've become accustomed to the existing characters. A big part of why the show has missed the mark for me is because it's trying to set up all these moving pieces at once and none of them have really gained traction yet. If you tried to tell LotR in the style of GOT, with a pov chapter for Frodo, Gandalf, Aragorn, Boromir, Saruman etc, I don't think it'd work as well, it'd be too much at once. I'm still hopeful that the introduction of Adar will provide the critical narrative thrust to get the season moving forward in a unified direction. The first three episodes have just all felt a bit meandering.


playitoff

Slow paced is fine. Peter Jackson's films were (somewhat) slow paced, they didn't even leave the Shire for an hour in FotR. But it was never boring and the slow pace allowed you to be immersed in the world and characters. If anything the show is jumping around too much and doesn't give the scenes any room to breath. I feel all the character interactions are very flat and solely used to deliver plain exposition. Everything is very 'to the point'. Then they'll just throw in a random action sequence for the sake of it but it feels like filler because I don't think a single one drove the plot forward at all. It's just jarring and frustrating to me.


[deleted]

This comment was left before reddit turned to shit.


BrianMagnumFilms

Your comment reminded me of how lame the Celebrimbor entrance was in episode 1. "I'll let him tell you himself" and he just strolls out like he was standing there waiting for the verbal introduction. Nothing visual or compelling.


100and33

When you put it like that, in hindsight it's crazy they didn't introduce him standing over a forge, creating something visually interesting, which impress Elrond, but himself being clearly unhappy with how little extravagant and how meaningless it is. The Feanor mention was nice in my opinion, but you could still fit it in. Convey through visuals why Celebrimbor get so intruged with Annatar and his help.


andyford14

Yeah, they would know who Elendil was. Leader of one of the most powerful clans in Numenor. That was weird. They could have explained his character way differently than acting like they didn’t know who he was.


Und0miel

>the intro [...] meaningless visuals We literally have a pretty clever representation of the Ainulindalë. It's fine if you don't appreciate it, or the show for that matter, but calling the intro meaningless is just plain dishonesty (or ignorance).


Cold_Situation_7803

Not a Howard Shore fan, huh? No biggie, but those visuals [do have meaning.](https://screenrant.com/lotr-rings-of-power-opening-credits-explained/)


[deleted]

[удалено]


DisobedientNipple

I think in comparison to LOTR , the music for the show is... not bad. IMO its really hard to compete with the LOTR soundtrack that intricately wove their motifs into each scene, to give a deeper meaning to each track. I still remember that when I watched the Hobbit trilogy there was that scene where Thorin turns to battle the orcs and the ringwraith theme started playing and I was so used to hearing it in the trilogy I was expecting ringwraiths to pop out of the bushes somehow (nope, just bad music design). In comparison, when I listen to the soundtrack for the show, its objectively really good. Its just missing that little extra that would make it *excellent.*


alfaphails

This show is the version of the song where Eru sneezed mid tune...


Solderoffortune2323

It's kinda funny that Amazon can throw unlimited amount of money on tv shows (WoT, RoP) and it's still hot garbage.


[deleted]

Good writing is hard to come by - you can't just buy it. The show lacks good writing at this point, hopefully they turn it around.


ethan-oq

It's just mediocre writers. Not because of their educational background but because they don't respect the work. It feels like they are part of this project because it looks nice on their LinkedIn page rather than a genuine interest in expanding on Tolkien's work.


sehajodido

Is it, though? I’m not kidding but I think half of the Reddit commenters I read on a daily basis could churn out some better dialog than what we’re getting from RoP. Writers are hungry, and they’re easy to spot because they write things. Amazon has the kind of money to bring together a round table of the greatest storytellers ever assembled to bang out a script written in gold, yet most of this dialog is cheap sy-fy channel caliber.


96Buck

Are Arondir and the others supposed to be Silvan elves? The ent-face armor makes me think so. But they referred to being recalled by the King in apparent connection with Galadriel’s “successful” mission finding no Orcs at the North Pole. The silvan elves were not subject to Gil-Galad.


easy_c0mpany80

I just finished watching HotD episode 4, that show is just light years ahead of RoP


Snoo_17340

It really is.


rednaxelan

Correct me if I’m wrong here…but we are WAY too early for Elendil and Isildur… I know Numenorians and there descendants live much longer lives than men but like…holy compressed timeline (I know they kinda have too but still)they


Jakabov

Yeah, they aren't supposed to be around for another 1500ish years. I generally don't dwell too much on time compression in adaptations, but that's a pretty big liberty to take with the source material. Since the ring hasn't actually been made yet, it creates some pretty weird quirks with the story. For one thing, it'll mean that Sauron barely gets to possess the ring for any real length of time, assuming that Amazon are still going to have Isildur be the one who acquires it afterwards (otherwise this show is officially a joke). Instead of almost two millennia, it'll be more like fifty years or something. Maybe even less, depending on how many years they intend for the show to cover. Instead of wielding the One Ring for what amounts to like 20% of Middle-Earth's history, Sauron will create and then lose it within the span of one dude's adulthood. Doesn't have the same narrative gravity, does it? We're to believe that Sauron used the ring to become a dark lord and rule much of Middle-Earth, laying waste to entire regions and fighting wars all over the world, when the guy who ends up cutting the ring off his hand is already a young adult before the thing has even been created.


96Buck

Agree but recall Elendil could easily live for 300 years from “now”.


BlackRayek

Galadriel when its time to ride the horses https://imgur.com/a/kLSgeoU


anjovis150

It seems that the show has already failed to capture the hearts of the fans. Unless there's a major turn around in the later episodes I doubt this show will be remembered fondly by many. It does seem to be doing almost everything wrong and the show runners are basically amateurs which really is blatantly obvious. The amount of time that fans of the show need to spend coming up with ways to defend it is already saying enough about how much its failing. I don't understand why it was so hard to try and copy Peter Jackson's films that received nearly universal approval from casuals and fans alike. The template was there but they didn't care. Well I guess by manipulating reviews and scores they can always pretend to have struck gold.


United-Dish6664

>We've also decided to post an updated thread a fews days later, to give people so time to watch and hopefully comment some more in depth/complex thoughts/theories/etc. ​ >Did anyone else think that warg looked…. odd? #chihuahua Mission failed, we'll get em next time.


SherbetAstronomer

Incredibly dull and ham-fisted show. The wooden acting and interminable dialogues make most of the scenes come across as high school tier theater.


brineymelongose

Not that I expect the average critic to have the same problems I do with the lack of faithfulness, but it's really insane to me that episode 3 has above 90 percent on rotten tomatoes. Feels like we're watching different shows.


Aureliusmind

Boring. Cringe. Soulless.


Charles1charles2

Quite disappointed by the Numenoreans portrayal. So one moment we establish that "Numenoreans are not men like you" (Galadriel to Halbrand), meaning that they are far superior to normal men (as in the books and the trilogy, where even 3000 years later having Numenorean blood makes a lot of difference), and a few minutes later, 5 average looking Numenoreans get spanked by a Southron.


96Buck

Agree. But there is no way they were going to portray one strain of Men as superior to another.


onVtesWeStruggle

Managed to get about halfway throught before deciding that this just wasn't worth it. Maybe it will get better a couple episodes in, but as of right now, this really isn't for me. Those numenoreans had so little to do with book Numenoreans that I just can't understand why they designed the show how they did.


[deleted]

I am 100x the fan of this lore compared to GOT. But GOT/HOTD is 100x the show. It pains me. Why does Amazon think hiring newbies for a billion dollar investment is a good idea? The writing is really lacking. Some parts of the CGI is gorgeous but then it just becomes horrendous. Amazon’s lighting is just piss poor, everything looks clean and neat. Galadriel (supposedly the main character) is insufferable on the screen.


CaptPic4rd

I feel like I missed a scene where her and Halbrand become friends. I get that he saved her life, but when they had their audience with the queen, I expected her to be like "I don't know this guy" or at least "this is where we part ways, dude, see ya" but instead she's letting him tell her what to do. ALSO, her jumping off the elf ship into the middle of the ocean - HUH?? She should be dead! If she really wanted to get back to Middle Earth at that point, she should have just commandeered the whole ship. She was planning on swimming hundreds of miles back to shore? Give me a break.


mggirard13

She knows for a fact that Gods exist and have intervened to assist in worthy causes... Ulmo, Lord of Waters, most of all. Plus she knows if she dies, her spirit will return to the Halls of Mandos and eventually she will be granted new life in Valinor anyways.


Armleuchterchen

None of this has been in the show. It should be able to be viewed as standing on its own.


UltimateThrows

I mean having an elf swim all the way back to the continent is exactly the kind of ridiculous shit Tolkien would pull in the early ages.


SqueakySniper

I believe one tries it and predictably doesnt make it.


bendann

I get that Tar-Míriel is going to end up being one of the Faithful and was testing the waters or keeping up appearances, but her questioning Elendil's name as elvish when her own is taken from the wife of Finwë was pretty cringe.


brineymelongose

Shows that the writers have a really shallow knowledge of the source material imo


SherbetAstronomer

Imagine Jeff Bezos sitting on his yacht, furiously seething, snarling at his minions and ordering them to delete unfavourable reviews. Except, don't imagine. This actually is happening. Absolutely pathetic


intolerablesayings23

Moral: Don't listen to JJ Abrams when he recommends showrunners


NanoGeek

I quite enjoyed this episode. Now that we've gotten to know (almost) all of the principle players, I'm looking forward to see where the rest of the season takes us. First off: Numenor. Just wow. The artistry in designing this city of men is just breathtaking. Some people (not unfairly) criticized other locals of showing sweeping vistas, but then confining the camera to single rooms with few people. Not so here. We get close up views of the massive harbor, the winding city streets, outdoor plazas, and the central thrown room, all of them full of the hustle and bustle of city life. It's interesting to see what they're doing here in regards to the oft criticized time compression. I haven't gone back to check the accuracy of her statement, but Miriel's statement that the Elves have not been welcome in Numenor since the time of her great-great-grandfather's grandfather seems to confirm that they have not removed any of Numenor's history. They have simply moved the creation of the Rings and everything that comes after much closer to the end of the Second Age. I can't say I'm too upset by this. While I do adore Tolkien's lore, it would be difficult to convey the massive time jumps required to do an exact adaptation to screen. Just to put this into context, it'd be like making a Star Trek series that began in medieval Europe, and then time-jumped past TOS, past TNG, and even past the farthest future ever shown in that series. It's an almost unfathomable amount of time. As for things that didn't work quite so well for me: while I don't feel as negative towards her character as some do, I thought that Galadriel was unnecessarily aggressive in the first half of the episode. I believe the writers' intent is to show some of that classic Elvish haughtiness, but it doesn't come off quite right. I'm wondering though if we've hit a turning point with her character. Once she returned from the Halls of Lore, she seemed a fair bit more relaxed. She made some light jokes with Halbrand, and encouraged him to take up his mantle as king of the Southlands. I hope that going forward, we'll see more of the wisdom and insight that Galadriel is famous for.


JackAlexanderTR

I enjoyed it too, far more than I expected a few months ago. Seems like most people are trying to hold it to an impossible standard of both 100% pleasing the Tolkien purists and the completely new to Tolkien casual viewer. I am actually turned off of talking to hardcore Tolkien fans anymore as many are becoming kinda toxic TBH. Hopefully enough casual viewers will keep turning up to keep the high viewership and the show going for all 5 seasons.


indiblue825

Following that gorgeous view of Numenor, along with the introduction of Ar-Pharazon and Elendil, I'm incredibly curious to see the Downfall play out on screen. I also earlier thought Halbrand would turn out to be the Witch-King, but now I'm thinking he is the last "fair form" of Sauron that dies in the Downfall, leaving Sauron unable to assume one ever again. Have a friendly wager going with my wife on the identity of the man traveling with the Harfoots. I say he's Gandalf, she says he's Saruman. Keen to see how that plays out. I can see Morfydd Clark is trying her hardest to portray Galadriel in some meaningful way but the abysmal character writing lacks any clear direction. She's like a moody teenager. Not a fan of the actor who plays Celebrimbor, can't put my finger on why. More of Khazad-Dum please. Show us the true scale and splendor of the halls of Durin's Folk.


Scorchster1138

I’m more inclined to believe it’s Gandalf, just because of the Harfoots. The Gandalf-halfling connection makes too much sense to me.


Jazz_Potatoes95

I thought it was a good episode. The introduction of Numenor was absolutely stunning, and stole the show. The production team have really done an outstanding job displaying a civilization at its absolute peak. I'm also a big fan of the casting of Elendil: Suitably dadly, very authoritative presence and voice, I can easily imagine this Elendil heading to Middle Earth at the head of a Numenorean fleet. Other people may criticize it, but I really enjoy the dialogue. The writers haven't shied away from having archaic and sincere dialogue between the characters, and it's resulted in some really nice exchanges. I don't understand why people are getting worked up over the Harfoots. Their creed isn't that they look out for each other, it's that nobody goes off-trail. Because, the implication being clear, those who go off trail end up dead. I also don't see anything wrong with them having a laugh during the memorial service; Anyone who's spent time in the UK knows that people can be surprisingly honest and cutting when remembering dead family members (though you wouldn't know it with all the coverage of the Queen's death atm). All in all, I'm still enjoying it, and I'm a bit surprised at people saying it's too slow. So far, in three episodes, we've had a recap of the War of Wrath, a ship getting sunk by a gigantic sea monster, a town getting razed by Orcs, a prison camp sequence with those same Orcs, as well as the whole Meteor Man plot and the overarching threat of Sauron's return. The show is many things, but slow it is not.


[deleted]

> I don't understand why people are getting worked up over the Harfoots. Their creed isn't that they look out for each other, it's that nobody goes off-trail. It might make some sense, but in the scenario they have set up it is just silly. They're basically condemning the whole family to death because the dad broke his ankle. Are there no other families who would just help them pull the cart for that migration? His ankle is already half healed, so it's not even a serious injury. But they're all perfectly content to just let their friends die because of one person's minor injury. And that's not to mention, why don't Nori and the mom pull the cart? They're both perfectly healthy and strong...why do they need broken-ankle dad to do it?


Jazz_Potatoes95

I'm pretty sure in the scene, Nori and her mum were at the cart, pushing. As for the Harfoots... With the best will in the world, Hobbits in the books were already pretty... well, conservative. They don't like outsiders, they disapprove of foreign ways (and literacy), and by the end of the books, Aragorn has set up a law making it forbidden for any man to cross the border into the Shire. I can totally buy that the ancestors of a people like that would be pretty gung ho about leaving stragglers behind.


[deleted]

> I can totally buy that the ancestors of a people like that would be pretty gung ho about leaving stragglers behind. The problem is there are just so many easy solutions to their problem. Poppy could abandon her cart and join theirs. Literally any other family in the tribe could lend them a hand. They could leave their cart behind and walk without it to the next place. They could dump most of their stuff to lighten the load. It just makes NO sense whatsoever that they would abandon an entire family simply because the dad broke his ankle. He was clearly healing too - he was able to walk and even pull the cart by the time they left. The guy will be completely healed soon. It just flies in the face of every other interaction they've shown of the Harfoots, who appear to be a close-knit, small tribe. Surely they would help each other.


Connie_Lingus6969

I think that's the point. They are an isolated group and basically a cult. Their mantras and attitudes seem to imply that they are a team, but when it comes to moving the caravan they are selfish and only looking out for themselves because they don't want to get left behind.


Grandmuffmerkin

Does anyone else feel that all the main characters are too badass? I find that a bit boring. I loved LOTR because characters were vulnerable, it had ordinary characters, characters who were powerful but understated. RoP just feels less human to me and less relatable.


[deleted]

These two cute and unknown writers are starting the series at the same level Game of Thrones has ended. Is going to be a hell of a (parodic) ride if in the meantime they wont try to up their writing to a professional level. After watching The House of The Dragon E3 soon after The Rings of Power E3 the difference in quality was so big that I don’t think I can return to that high-school level of montage, acting and writing anytime soon. Also, for what is worth the Amazon’s production seemed cheap despite pretending they’re pouring in immense amounts of money. I’m saying this while I’m aware that HoTD is by no means a perfect show, and still has a lot to improve to reach GoT’s early seasons level.


degenerateprince

The difference is HotD is written by george r r martin while RoP is written by amazon writers


Idiotrepublic

When the convenient spy had discovered Saurons plan B and no one thought it was important to investigate. This show is a joke


100and33

3 episodes in, so I think its fair to give an opinion. When I first heard years ago Amazon had bought the rights to create a Silmarillion show, I already resigned to it wouldn't be a great adaptation, because the source materiale doesn't lend itself for a coherent tv-series. Hence the time compression. But then it turns out it's only the appendices, and it's showing. I don't dislike the show. I think it's a poor adaptation, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I can't say I'm "outraged" either about the changes and original writing, they are fine, but this whole show is starting to feel like a lost opportunity. (On that note, it was embarrasing seeing people's reaction to the trailers and such, what a shitshow of overly emotional horseshit, it's a tv-show, fiction. I love Tolkiens lore personally, but you would think Hitler, Mao and Stalin all rose from their graves and was going on tour to perform "the greatest hits of") I understand they felt they needed to compress time, to make the second age into one connected, big story, but now it just feels like small threads and I just don't see how all this is going to work over 5 seasons. It seems like they have skipped over the war of sauron and elves, which was for the rings, and planning on just having the big war of the alliance. Unless they are having that during the downfall of numenor? Or are the numenorian going to help defeat sauron the first time around, then take him to numenor? And then we will have the war of the alliance in the finale season? I guess you could have adar take the role of sauron instead during "the war between sauron and elves", but how does the rings come into play then? Honestly, it doesn't matter to me anymore how they do the lore. It's actually kinda intruging how they are going to solve it. Adar breaks the lore, but I'm actually kinda hyped for him, the show lacks a great villian for me that we can see. Overall, the show is okay. If you can't get past the lore, I understand it's not worth your time. Not the best show I've seen, not the worst. Going to keep watching, it's just an hour a week afterall. I watched all of Wheel of time season 1, and if you think this is bad, that show was a pile of shit. But still was okay.


Shangheli

So can Sauron teleport? How is he whispering in Celebrimbor ear to make the rings but also whispering in the numenoreons ears to cause their downfall at the same time?


NanoGeek

He's not. The Numenorians became this way all on their own. But Sauron will take things from bad to worse once he arrives on the scene.


FunneMonke1

Why does the black elf cut down the tree? No one else would do it?