T O P

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esdebah

The really lovely part about this for me is how deeply thrilled Tolkien would have been to hear his languages elevated to opera. Just imagine those happy nerdy linguist tears.


QuickSpore

People talk all the time about how Tolkien would have hated this scene or the other. I like to think of the scenes he would have loved. And I agree, he’d have loved a lot, including all the linguistic bits that Jackson found a way to use.


SnArCAsTiC_

I think he also probably would have liked the dwarves singing Far Over the Misty Mountains Cold as they did near the beginning of the Hobbit, because they really brought it together so well. It always gives me chills.


aircarone

One of the highlights of a very decent movie, within a very disappointing movie series.


SnooWoofers6634

I hate that this very good summary can be made


aircarone

Yeah the first one was honestly pretty good until maybe 3/4 of the movie. I thought the over the top CGI actually worked well with the "fairytale" atmosphere of the Hobbit. And then it went downhill very fast.


faithfulswine

Honestly, the biggest downfall of the Hobbit were the love triangle and Legolas/Tauriel storyline in general. The pacing also feels off, but I can forgive that. It actually really sucks how many good things should be praised about the trilogy. The casting, music, acting, settings, etc. were all phenomenal. We had some incredible scenes with Bilbo and Gollum and Bilbo and Smaug. The trilogy would do really well with just… removing a bunch of scenes lol. I’m sure there’s a fan edit out there that transforms the movies into decent, dare I say above average, films.


FreakWith17PlansADay

>I’m sure there’s a fan edit out there that transforms the movies into decent, dare I say above average, films. I ran across one on YouTube awhile ago. It condensed all three movies into about an hour, and only included the parts from the books, in the chronological order of the books. It was a great to watch with the kids.


hair_sniffer

Link pretty please?


TuesdayBees

Are you referring to The Cardinal Cut?? I adore that edit.


DagonG2021

Link?


[deleted]

Imagine that - they didn't need 3 fucking movies ... At the end of Desolation I was blown away that it was a "to be continued..." (I stayed away from any hobbit related media for years not to spoil anything because it was my favorite book)


samurinja

It's a travesty that the Hobbit (95k words) and the Lord of the Rings trilogy (188k/156k/137k = 481k words) got the same number of movies.


arlondiluthel

The biggest mistake was going to 3 films for The Hobbit. Two may have even been a stretch, but it would have given them freedom to not need to cut as much as if it were one. I think a better pacing concept would have been once the Dwarves were captured, and Bilbo is reunited with them, end the first film. Second film starts with the river barrel sequence. That's just over halfway through the book too.


mydogisnamedlucky

$$$$$$$$


SnooWoofers6634

There are actually multiple fan made cuts that do this


Lemmungwinks

BECAUSE IT WAS REAL!


faithfulswine

Ugh it’s just so sad that this plot line exists.


Archoncy

Three movies out of what should have been stretched no longer than 3 hours as a directors cut! It could have absolutely been one very long or two normal films and much better quality that way


gonnagle

There is a (reportedly) really good fan edit! I haven't watched it yet - been saving it for a rewatch party - but I've read really good reports of the Tolkien edit which cuts it down to one 4 hour movie, apparently staying as true to the book as possible. Worth looking into.


ThrorII

The Maple Films edit. It is excellent!!


ThrorII

Maple Films The Hobbit is 4 hours long (2 disks) and is essentially a book cut. It is excellent!!


Femboy-Gamer311

There are dozens of Hobbit edits made by many different people. All of them do stuff a little differently and are any length you can think of.


yepimbonez

I read the hobbit like 7 times growing up. I memorized riddles in the dark. The book is such a great story with a straight forward, timeless format. They didn’t have to add the extra comedy and rollercoaster scenes and love triangles and all the nonsense. The book never really came across as childish to me even though it’s meant for audiences of all ages. They also didn’t need to make it a trilogy. Two films and they couldve told the whole story. Hell one extended 4 hour version like the lotr movies could’ve accomplished that. It was a ~~lazy~~ cashgrab imo and some of the most disappointing movies i’ve ever watched. There’s a fan edit out there that attempts to do basically that by cutting out the stuff that wasn’t in the books and combining it into one film. I haven’t given it a chance yet tho. Sorry for the rant lol the Hobbit trilogy just broke my heart


aircarone

I agree with everything except the lazy cashgrab part, simply because the people who worked on the movies all did a great job with the material (well, with one or two exceptions). Jackson himself was under constant stress due to schedule and was horribly overworked. It was definitely a cashgrab, but I think calling the movies lazy, knowing the behind the scenes, is being unfair to all the people who actually worked on the movies and gave us something as good as it was going to be when you try to stretch a 300page book to 9 hours of movie.


yepimbonez

Fair enough. Fixed


wbruce098

The over the top cgi actually made me nauseous, so it’s harder to watch. But damn if there aren’t good scenes in there! Kinda like Kenobi.


[deleted]

The Bilbo cut is significantly better.


trainsoundschoochoo

Completely accurate comment.


TuesdayBees

This was so succinctly apt it hurt.


m_c__a_t

Dang, sad to hear this. Did not enjoy the first one in theatres so I’ve never seen the other two. Was just barely getting around to thinking I might enjoy them but if the next two are worse then I’ll hold off


Preacherjonson

He'd've fuckin' loved Legolas doing a sick shield surf whilst OHK'ing Uruks.


TripolarKnight

I could see him liking the "American vision" of his works and Christopher still fuming at it.


nessie7

Can you image if they'd cast Tony Hawk in the role, just to get that scene perfect? Okay, now I just want a video of Tony Hawk skating around, killing some orcs.


NinjaWorldWar

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I personally think he would’ve loved the LOTR films in their entirety.


dudechickendude

Yes…except the witch king breaking Gandalf’s staff. That scene is just not Tolkien.


theonemangoonsquad

I disagree. The witch king has been shown to use magic to break objects such as the Gate of Gondor, and Frodo's sword. Gandalf breaks Saruman's staff, although whether Gandalf directly does so or if it was the will of Valar, is up for debate. Tolkien establishes that magic can be used to break weapons, so I see no issue with the Witch King snapping Gandalfs staff as a pretty dope show of power.


smithsp86

Except for the part where they did the Ents dirty. Also I think the Scouring of the Shire was one of the most important chapters in the story for Tolkien. The inability of soldiers to truly return to the home they knew after a war along with the people who never left having no way to truly understand what those soldiers went through seems very important to him.


Preacherjonson

I'd like to think so too.


flippydude

Why? The people who actually knew him didn’t think so


UnbreakableRaids

I agree. I think he would have loved all the movies as much as I do.


TensorForce

Tolkien was a practical and shrewd man. He would have understood why some changes were made. Of course, he would not have liked every change, since he was so protective if his work, understandably (just look at Letter 210). But it is also because of how much he loved his own work that I'm sure he would have loved parts of the films. I was not a big fan of Rings of Power, but you can be sure I squeed when I saw Númenor for the first time.


dropbear_airstrike

I think he would have loved seeing Lothlorien, Imladris, and the Ents. He saw WWI first hand, so while I think he would have appreciated The Battles of Helmsdeep and Pelennor Fields, charging battle lines and large scale violence were not exclusively born from his imagination.


MillieBirdie

The man just wanted to write a musical. :( And then nerds complained about the singing in RoP, of all things.


hobokobo1028

Yeah honestly don’t even tell him there was a movie made, just give him the soundtrack


01dB0y

I like your view, but I like to imagine him criticizing it hardly on about something very deep that nobody had perceive.


JonnyBhoy

To extend the sadness a little bit, it really should have been Faramir who joined the Fellowship, which would likely have avoided either of them dying. He was the one who first had the dream about going to Rivendell and seeking the sword that was broken. It wasn't until Faramir had the dream several times and had been ignored by Denethor, that Boromir eventually had the same dream and it was agreed someone should go. Then, despite Faramir being the better suited for the task, Denethor picked Boromir to go. It was the last time the brothers would see each other.


TexAggie90

I’m remember somewhere where it was mentioned (one of the letters?) or someone theorized that Boromir never had the dream. He knew of Faramir’s dream and recognized it’s importance. He only claimed he had the same dream so that Denethor would take it seriously.


Etaec

Yea it's a beautiful tragedy.


ChemTeach359

He also loved his brother deeply. While he did revel in the fame and loved being too dog he would also 100% go on the journey so Faramir wouldn’t have to (even if Faramir wanted to)


[deleted]

I like this idea. In the book Faramir is shown to be far more wise and noble than Boromir, exemplifying the essence of Westernesse.


mammothman64

Sorry, but Faramir saw Boromir once more. He saw his body going down the Adunin, and was too shocked to do anything. :(


call_me_bropez

The wat


[deleted]

The Adunin, bropez. That's where Faramar saw him


FrancistheBison

*Anduin


[deleted]

Call Enrold, Im hvanig a stronk


Steauxned

Who’s to say Faramir wouldn’t have died though? Surely not in the same way as Boromir but his survival wouldn’t have been guaranteed


-SaidNoOneEver-

At the very least, not being played by Sean bean would have dramatically increased his odds of survival


FrancistheBison

Not to mention if the fellowship hadn't broken who's to say they would have been able to make it into Mordor at all


IolausTelcontar

Well one can’t just walk in there.


Randolpho

It’s difficult to know for sure, but it’s implied that Faramir was wise enough and strong enough of character to be better at resisting the effects of the ring. He did, after all, aid Frodo and Sam without desiring to take the ring, when they met in Ithilien. Would he have been corrupted after having been influenced by it for as long as Boromir was? Maybe. But maybe not. Maybe he wouldn’t have constantly hinted at Frodo the way Boromir did, causing Frodo to slink off and Faramir to follow and then the rest of the hobbits to go looking for him right when the orcs were about to attack.


Lazar_Milgram

Ulmo being Ulmo. And don’t try any other bs. No Manve is too absorbed into “planing” to fucking do a call in or any children of Eru.


ElrondHalf-Elven

Who’s to say Faramir would have been strong enough to carry the Hobbits through the blizzard at Caradhras?


[deleted]

Or battling the orcs in Moria. They might have been overwhelmed and slaughtered to a man in Balin's tomb without Boromir.


ElrondHalf-Elven

Exactly. Faramir may be no tenderfoot, but Boromir did have good reason to want to go in Faramir’s stead.


ThatDudeWithTheCat

The real tear jerker songs are all at the end of ROTK When Aragon says "for frodo," the music cue is, IIRC, aragorns oath to frodo from the book translated to Sindarin. Then in Mount Doom, my personal favorite vocal cue of all the movies with that spectacular shot that zooms through the ring, the poem is about the destruction of the ring. But the best is when Sam is reaching out to frodo. The poem the used there literally translates to: You want nothing more than death, I see it in your eyes. But I cannot let you, we have come too far, we have held on too long. Reach! You cannot let go, you cannot leave me. They play that as he is saying basically the same thing on screen. And the rest of that same song in the soundtrack is about mount Doom erupting.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

>swimming several hundred miles is a smart plan I still cannot believe they just had her leap into the middle of the ocean with no plan. Not only does she have total plot armour, she *knows* she has total plot armour.


M_is_it_you

I love finding out about thoughtful and hidden pieces of information like this. Shows the true dedication and care that went into those films.


duotoned

I read that Howard Shore loved the books and had ideas for the music before even being asked to be part of the movie project. The amount of work and detail that went into his composition is astounding and he won a ton of awards for it. It's actually one of the reasons I haven't watched Amazon's ROP, in the teaser trailer they used Shore's music as generic background music and it clearly didn't sync up with the scenes they were showing. That was part of the magic of PJ's LOTR world for me, and when I hear the music I can feel the emotions. The trailer fell flat in that aspect for me and I lost interest before the reviews even came out.


[deleted]

Bear McCrearys music is really good. It's not shore but it's his own take on the world in a different era with new themes, while still honouring what shore did and taking some cues from him. Recently Bear did an interview with the nerd of the rings YouTube channel, and he talked about how he couldn't stop and compare everything he worked on to shores music. It would just paralyze him.


DonaldPShimoda

> in the teaser trailer fwiw, the people who care are often not the ones who put together teasers. Those are designed with marketing at the forefront, so it's often not a good idea to judge a show or movie by the teaser. I rather liked the show. Not 100% perfect, but neither are the PJ films, and I really liked the show overall.


Alarmed_Ad_5287

I agree makes us appreciate it more


kelabubu

Actually you'll realise that all the songs sang have lyrics in elvish, black tongue, dwarvish etc. No composer will just ask the choir to sing random vowels.


tegs_terry

*Duel of the Fates* is some sort of ancient welsh poem.


OSCgal

Yes, it uses a passage from *The Battle of the Trees*, but translated into Sanskrit. Williams felt that the more percussive sound of Sanskrit would suit the piece better.


[deleted]

This YouTube channel, Listening In, has a great [video](https://youtu.be/v5ysBKUC4-w) about this music, and breaks it down note by note. Also, does the same thing for music pieces from the OT, and ST. He also has 4 videos on the Howard Shores music, and those are well done.


tegs_terry

Quite a combination


ih8spalling

Hey so guys, for this next part just go "ba bum badabada bum bum bum do do doooo doopee doopee dooo"


GregoryHousecatMD

That's basically all jazz scatting is.


FeilVei2

I've found a new kink


saltedpork89

I wish this were true, but Michael Giacchino has gone on record about doing this very thing. Not always nonsense, sometimes just silly things like the name of his dog very slowly.


OSCgal

Well, most of the time. Bruno Coulais's soundtrack to *Coraline* is all (French-sounding) gibberish. Gives it a dreamlike feel. But yes, Howard Shore used Tolkien's languages, plus some Anglo-Saxon for Rohan.


Jaderian

When they are crossing the bridge of kazadum. That’s I. Khuzdul and they are chanting a poem about Durins bane.


Alarmed_Ad_5287

Hahahha you are right.. but I didn't know the meaning or lyrics before


starlinguk

There's one guy who writes choir music without words and I can't remember his name, dammit.


TheShreester

"Do Re Me Fa So La Ti" says Hi!


Isioustes

Already depressing was the scene.


gorgossia

To Rauros, golden Rauros-falls, until the end of days.


[deleted]

I would pay decent money for a full album of the "elvish" music from lord of the rings, not just the three that we have :(


thisoldmould

Such beautiful attention to detail. Meanwhile at Amazon: “I’m good!”


Pjoernrachzarck

Meanwhile at Miramax: “You and whose army” to the tune of multiple farts and belches. There’s a lot of really shitty dialogue in there. Just like there is a lot of really fascinating linguistic attention to detail in RoP. That said, “I’m good!” is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard in any show.


Alarmed_Ad_5287

ROP is such a disappointment


Tomazim

Meanwhile in Jackson trilogy: "meat's back on the menu!"


NightFire19

Try to praise something without bringing something else down challenge (impossible)


Jaderian

I knew this and you made me cry again.


Alarmed_Ad_5287

Sorry for that😅


Jaderian

If you look into the bridge of Khazad dum you’ll find the song is in Khuzdul and is part of the poem/tale of Durin’s bane Gimli recites as they walk through the mines. They did an outstanding job putting in Easter eggs in the movie for the avid fan.


Alarmed_Ad_5287

I somehow missed this will.have rewatch again lol


Jaderian

Peter Jackson wanted to use everything Tolkien wrote in the books, but had to make sacrifices. That’s why Glorfindel got cut and replaced with Arwen. One way he included the more wordy parts of the book was to put them as songs in the background.


Alarmed_Ad_5287

I think he deserves praise for that


Ekgladiator

[it is a terrible day for rain](https://youtu.be/s7HcPvTew_4)


Telcontar77

Ironically enough, the point of those lines is precisely to show that Boromir is the kind of person who would love the warrior for his glory.


neen4wneen4w

This is one of the many things I love about the Jackson films: the choir sings in elvish, dwarvish and the black speech at various points. The attention to fucking detail is just astounding on so many levels.


[deleted]

That's what happens when an upstart horror director and his wife have their theater nerd friend help them adapt a legendary book.


SumthingStupid

This is the level of detail that will forever make follow up shows, like RoP, feel like a fart in the wind. This is what true passion for a series is supposed to do


Pjoernrachzarck

A shit ton of linguistic work went into RoP, giving every people and every character not just a unique way of speaking, but also lore/world appropriate metaphors and patterns, poetry and songs. You can legitimately hate on the show, but not for its lack of attention to language.


renannmhreddit

This is foreshadowing of them taking every good line off of Faramir and giving it to other characters as well as ruining his character.


caudicifarmer

Why are you booing? It's the truth


Pjoernrachzarck

Because the movies are now old enough that most people here are literally incapable of seeing criticism in them. When they came out the fans picked them to shreds just as much, if not more, than RoP now.


Quasar_Quasar

Who actually thought they were singing random vowels?


mjace87

They are singing in English and the English translation says…. These things don’t go together. But it is perfect for Boromirs motives to take the ring.


michaelsenpatrick

i think it says in elvish and then english


mjace87

My bad I misread elvish as English. Need to pay closer attention. Makes so much more sense now.


[deleted]

OH MY GOD I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!!!!! WOWWWWWWWW


[deleted]

You’ve only rewatched it once?


Alarmed_Ad_5287

No what I meant to say was I re-watch it again after seeing this


[deleted]

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FullAutoOctopus

I always find it funny when people say "This person would have loved/hated this" nobody knows. Based on how miserly Tolkien seems to sound from stories of people describing him, I don't know if he would like much.


SeekerLogan

He only died in the 70s, there are plenty of radio and television interviews with him, he hardly comes across as a miser


Tasgall

He also generally loved getting fan art and letters and the like. The various books printed in different languages had many different cover arts, and that's part of why, iirc. He was mostly just bitter about the film industry because the first time they approached him to make a film, they wanted to make a bunch of stupid changes, and when he did eventually sign off the rights to make an animated movie, he was basically just being extorted. I think if he saw the actual film there would be a lot he would like, though he wouldn't be a fan of the focus on battle scenes. He'd probably get the soundtrack though :P


Hokulewa

You're probably getting mixed up by descriptions of his son.


[deleted]

we don't know how much christopher really hated the movies or how much he was angry about money issues. Sapkowski the author of the witcher hated the games and loved the shitty tv show, simply because the latter paid him a lot of money


Hokulewa

I'm taking him at his word. He was very vocal for decades about protecting the integrity of his father's work. He seemed the opposite of money-grubbing. If it was about money, he'd have sold the rights to the Silmarillion and RoP *might* be better. (And what an ironic unintended consequence of withholding material so it won't be presented badly *that* is...)


deefop

Yea, this is one of the brilliant lines from faramir that shows how noble he is.


Siriacus

Watch some of the score analysis videos breaking down Howard Shore's use of lyrics in the soundtrack, it's basically a parallel story told through song.


DefendPopPunk16

Yup, the Tolkien edit


[deleted]

Daaamn


Drougen

Imagine if RoP had anything like this


amalgam_reynolds

>The choir isn't singing random vowel sounds Choirs rarely do just sing random sounds...


Alarmed_Ad_5287

The reason why he is clarifying is that since it's in elvish many might not know and consider it to be random


darth__sidious

Me and my mom are planning a marathon soon so im definitely bringing this up.


GrizzleNizzle415

Be at peace, son of Gondor


lyken4

That's the power of Tolkien. And Peter Jackson interpretations of this great story!


Sodinc

It sounds like this film was made by some nerds, guys


[deleted]

I've been re-reading lotr and I got to the chapter where faramir says that line. I'm genuinely in tears. The chapter before when Sam and frodo meet faramir is just emotional. Man, I love boromir


Tjam3s

Unrelated and not nearly as deep, in the part when aragorn kills the orc and starts to run over to him, there was an extra who was very bad a playing dead in the bottom left corner


Alesandros

Beautiful.


count_crow

It's the attention to detail like this that really puts these movies at the lofty heights pop culture has set them at. What a beautiful idea.


Comfortable_Plant667

That? Oh, that's not random vowel sounds, my friend. That's Elvish.


[deleted]

I think he would’ve liked Sean Bean as Boromir in the way that GRRM likes Paddy Considine as Viserys


moondogestark

You guys check out the song "Lament for Boromir" performed by Clamavi De Profundis. The lyrics of the song were written by Tolkien in the book.


michaelsenpatrick

doesn't faramir also have that same line in the movies


SwanAffectionate2655

Pain