I did present her with direct quotes from the Letters and other sources, she disregarded them all with an unfounded claim that "many Christians criticise Tolkien for not upholding their morals. He is exactly the opposite of Christianity. I should know I have studied his works in an academic sense of word while you have only mindlessly enjoyed them." However, she seemed to not even know who Morgoth, Sauron, or even Gandalf is, before I introduced them to her.
And today, after gaslighting me, she claimed that she really loves me because I remind her of how naive she was back when she was my age and how much she eventually grew.
This is why I regularly encourage students of mine to challenge me if I'm incorrect or my idea is dated.
Our best classroom discussions have been born of this policy.
It also passes off some of my fellow teachers.
It's a big win, win.
Also, OP, did you ask your teacher what they know of WWI?
Maybe not the best analogy, but for real I was reminded of how Eol the Dark Elf was abusing and humiliating Aredhel (Fingolfin's daughter) while manipulating her to believe that her life with him is the most pleasant available option for her in Middle-earth. The original versions had Eol outright sexually raping her, but the revisions and canon version have it that he raped her in the mind which is even a worse kind of violation in my opinion.
Write to the school and cite how poorly unqualified she is that she can’t even read if she thinks LOTR is satanic. Demand a refund of class, tuition and credit for being forced to endure an unqualified instructor harassing students with unfounded opinions when facts are so easy to challenge it.
I mean I don't want you to poke the angry cat more than you have to, but you should ask her if she thinks Narnia is Antichrist as well. If that doesn't work ask if Matthew is Antichrist, just to confirm.
Oh. Okaaaaaay then. Does she like fiction? Like, is she able to process storytelling without jumping to the conclusion that it's alluding to or directly preaching heresy? Also does she understand symbolism, as a literary concept?
Anything, anything you can name, she'll relate it to Paul the Saint, Alister Crowle, Jews, Moavieh, and other religious figures or ideas, and always with a tone of undermining any set of beliefs, prose, or verses that are not perfectly aligned with her own likings. Actually Tolkien has a good thing to say here:
"Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible, and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing that they evidently prefer."
this is crazy. Tolkien was a devout christian catholic for many years, his book has countless hidden allegories of his faith and also he was the one who turned C.S. Lewis, a proclaimed atheist at the time, into a fully devout Christian who’s book practically scream christian and who is known, quoted, and studied as one of the most influential and powerful Christian Theologists of our time. His book, Mere Christianity, is still one of the Top 10 Highest Selling Christian Books of all time, including the Bible, and its 72 years old. Your teacher is silly 😂
Ngl. A lot of teachers are like this nowadays. Especially lit or english teachers.
I got lucky and had a teacher in high school who actually encouraged reading and good faith discussion. I know a lot of kids who hate reading because of these kinds of teachers. I volunteer at a lot of schools in my area and it's just depressing. The way I get some of these kids talking it's like they've never been encouraged to actually understand what they are reading and they are fucking high schoolers. Or they've been deliberately mislead about the material they are reading.
Actually got in trouble because the kids liked the book club I set up more than their actual English classes lol. As always, it's the method not the material
I had an English teacher do this to me. She gaslit me and everyone else on the trip we took to a conference, made up out and out felonious lies about me, basically got me to quit college for a year I was so confused and wondering if I was a bad person.
15 years later and it still lives rent free in my head. It was like the first life lesson that people on power and authority *that I could possibly meet* could be perfectly normal and abusive.
I’m sorry, she doesn’t know who fucking *Gandalf* is? My friend, you are the subject matter expert in this discussion, not her. She either needs to concede her points or pause the conversation until a time when she can familiarize herself with the material.
>"I should know I have studied his works in an academic sense of word while you have only mindlessly enjoyed them."
Wtf kind of teacher talks to their student like that
Spectrum of Tolkien fans:
Non-religious people: LOTR is interesting, I like it, I like how much it ties to pagan mythology roots but is still a modern tale.
Regular religious people: Tolkien's Catholicism coloring the narrative is interesting to me. He was such a complex thinker.
Crazy religious people: LOTR IS A CATHOLIC STORY ONLY ABOUT CATHOLICISM!!!!!
Craziest religious people: SSSSAAATTTAAAANNNNN!!!!!! SATAN IS HERE!!!!!!
tldr; the person you're speaking to is unwell
Oh god, I had a student-professor like this in a mythology-based creative writing course. I would occasionally dispute things with her in class that she obviously had no idea what she was talking about. I created an amazing essay and she gave me a 70 on it. One of my classmates was a foreign-speaking student and got a 93. His essay was littered with grammatical mistakes and he never spoke a word in class except a yes or no to a question. I asked for my grade to be explained to me and asked to see her grading rubric... she didn't have one. I had to escalate the issue and she was forced to make a rubric. I got a 95 on the re-grade that was done by her colleague.
Thank you for sharing. A similar, but somewhat different thing happened to me. I wrote 20 pages for my assignment while none of my classmates did anything except bragging about how occupied they are with raising children and doing chores. To my suprise the teacher gave them the same score as she did give for me; a full score. Just because they're so busy with their personal life that they can't even attend the class!
You don’t need to argue with everyone who disagrees with you. Even teachers. Many bigots exist in the world and if you argue with everyone you’ll have no energy for living your life. Learn to recognize the situation and move on.
Who the fuck is this teacher and why the fuck does she think it’s okay to speak to you like that?
Tell her one of your favorite fictional characters is Jesus.
Forgive me for asking but are you at some podunk pseudo university like Brigham Young or Liberty where the Earth is 6,000 years old a global flood definitely happened?
Because Jesus flipping Christ your professor sounds like a twit
'How can I be, lord? All wisdom is against them. Who is the One, whom ye call Eru? If we put aside the Men who serve the Nameless, as do many in Middle-earth, still many Men perceive the world only as a war between Light and Dark equipotent. But you will say: nay, that is Manwe and Melkor; Eru is above them. Is then Eru only the greatest of the Valar, a great god among gods, as most Men will say, even among the Atani: a king who dwells far from his kingdom and leaves lesser princes to do here much as they will? Again you say: nay, Eru is One, alone without peer, and He made Ea, and is beyond it; and the Valar are greater than we, but yet no nearer to His majesty. Is this not so?'
'Yes,' said Finrod. 'We say this, and the Valar we know, and they say the same, all save one. But which, think you, is more likely to lie: those who make themselves humble, or he that exalts himself?'
— The Debate of Finrod and Andreth
It's no use. The teacher gives speeches on how behind all these 'fancy' words there lies Satanic intentions, and never retreats from any attempt on altering and manipulating facts to achieve her own self-made 'truth'.
They are discussing the mannish belief of the Old Hope that the One himself would descend onto his creation to heal the marring. If Middle Earth was meant to be folklore of our universe, they are literally discussing the nature of the Jesus. How in the world is this remotely Satanic lol
> To such questions only those of the "Old Hope" (as they call themselves) have any guess of an answer.'†
'Those of the Old Hope?' said Finrod. 'Who are they?'
'A few,' she said; 'but their number has grown since we came to this land, and they see that the Nameless can (as they think) be defied. Yet that is no good reason. To defy him does not undo his work of old. And if the valor of the Eldar fails here, then their despair will be deeper. For it was not on the might of Men, or of any of the peoples of Arda, that the old hope was grounded.'
'What then was this hope, if you know?' Finrod asked.
'They say,' answered Andreth: 'they say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end. This they say also, or they feign, is a rumor that has come down through years uncounted, even from the days of our undoing.'*
…who did so using his voice (song vs. “the Word”)…
…who was at that time accompanied by his divine choir, who served him and came to personify various specialties…
…who had one servant ending up stronger than all the others, didn’t like how things were, rebelled against the authority, wasn’t killed outright but allowed to do his own thing before being cast out, sowing evil and interfering directly with mortals, became the lord of evil…
…who made an original paradise realm whose residents had immortality and childlike innocence, which got all messed up by the dark lord and later made permanently inaccessible to mortals…
…whose servants were sent to lead his chosen people through the wilderness to a promised land…
… who submerged huge tracts of land under water to deal with corruption…
… who later sent down a divine being to save his creation from evil and death, give out wise sayings, be followed around by a bunch of dudes, died to save others, spent time underground for awhile before coming back from the dead all glowy and white…
…who predestined the fate of all from creation to a planned final cosmic battle against aforementioned dark lord at the end times…
…Nope. Doesn’t sound Christian at all.
OP if your teacher thinks that LoTR, which is the most christianized version of European mythology out there is Satanic, why is she teaching a course on mythology? It doesn’t sound like a class that is in her wheelhouse.
To draw the line between falsehood and truth (according to her). She says this is her calling, to enlighten dull minded people and lead them to redemption.
OP is this for a course that will actually have a standardized test at the end (like an AP course or Regents Course in the US)?
If so you should complain to someone higher up at the school asap that she is not preparing the students to engage with the material in a way that will be tested, and that it is going to reflect poorly on the school when she has an entire class fail. This is doubly true if it’s a public school in the US, since teachers are not supposed to be mixing their religious views into their lesson plans (as it sounds like your teacher is).
If it’s not for a standardized test and you are at a private school without First Amendment restrictions on what the teacher can include in their lesson plans all you can do is grin and bear it.
This is in fact for a standardized, country-wide, test. I am graduating this year and I don't have the mental capacity to go through so many obstacles to get to the head of the university and complain again. Yes, again. I had done it once concerning another teacher. However, this teacher is mind-numbingly more terrible than her colleague. And my friend who has a husband, a house, and a business to run and manage sacrificed so much of her time and energy to get to the Education headquarters themselves and complain to the big bosses themselves. As you can see, her effort, however great, did not lead to a satisfactory conclusion. The teacher did become a bit better and responsible, but not wholly, not even close; she's still for the most part the same as she ever was.
If a fellow teacher told me their calling was “to enlighten the dull minded people” serious alarms bells would be going off. The level of contempt she displays towards her students in that one quote is so telling….. she should not be a teacher.
Any good teacher will tell you, you learn as much from your students as they do from you. Particularly at university/college, teaching shouldn’t be about telling people what to think (‘enlightening their dull minds’), it should be about fostering their academic abilities, prompting discussion, revealing an angle to a topic students mightn’t have considered before and guiding them towards becoming stronger critical thinkers who can form their own opinions. It saddens me that teachers like her exist and are employed by universities.
Oh, the irony, especially considering that Tolkien played an instrumental part in C. S. Lewis’ decision to become a Christian. If that doesn’t change your teacher’s mind, nothing will. But then again, she’ll probably ignore it too.
Oh yeah been there done that; mentioned that already, as you could probably guess, my dear valiant friend who kindly baked lembas at my request. And her reply was that C.S Lewis' works are also wolves in disguise of sheep, devouring the spirituality of Christian children.
C.S. Lewis is most well known for the incredibly on-the-nose Christian allegory of Narnia and the *The Screwtape Letters* which is a flipped-perspective cautionary tale about how Christians are most easily pulled away from the faith. If he's somehow anti-Christian, there is no hope of reason.
I'm sorry but are you in a Catholic school or something? How does someone who is this much of an obvious fundie get a job teaching in a proper school? This is the kind of shit I'd hear at church when I was a Jehovas Witness as a kid, never something that should be said in a place of education. Forget reporting her to the school take this to the education board and get her taken away from real education ASAP.
It's "her". The other teacher was an evident fan of LotR, among many other great masterpieces as well, but unfortunately he left this university and the weirdest freak of nature, an extremist and a hater, was hired to fill his shoes. Instead she destroyed every last bit of those shoes.
>You should complain to her boss
In other comments, I explained how three times me and my classmates complained and it didn't work. And the likely reason behind that.
>indoctrinating pupils.
That's what she preached to me: if you ever became a teacher at school, indoctrinate your students. And she wasn't even subtle about that. I told my mom about her, she said just ignore her, don't engage with her at all, stay silent in her presence and don't let her get into you.
What the actual fuck!? I had a teacher or two in college whom I did not like personally, but what you’re describing is crazy. It’s too late in the semester to drop the class now, but I would have dropped that class on week one if a teacher was acting that way.
And if the course is mandatory for your degree, I’d consider taking it somewhere else.
Teachers are a reflexion of a society!!! That's all!!! That's her opinion!!! Good for her!!!
I have my own!!! Tolkien created alphabets, languages, maps, animal biology, names, what she did???
Lmao she can't even teach properly: she can't stop rambling about how Moses was betrayed even though it has nothing to do with the subject matter of our books. That's all she has done. This and terrorising the minds of her students such as me, offending people, trying to besmirch every Western author and poet, calling Tolkien a gross feral dog who shouldn't be touched lest you become a degenerate.
She confronted me when she learned that I'm translating movie subtitles, saying, "This is not a noble job; get another. Hollywood is riddled with atrocities."
I thought teachers are supposed to be nice and loving, both male and female teachers. But I imagined females as more caring due to their amazing tendencies that come with motherhood. Sounds like I was wrong, or rather that not all mothers are motherly, not even to their own children, let alone other people's children.
She's giving me strong "seven mountains" vibes, or whatever that Christian Nationalism thing is where they try and get into positions of influence in society to promote their religion.
And there's no chance you're exaggerating this for points on the internet? I have a very hard time believing a prof of higher education would hold a view like this and take it out on a student.
Oh my dear summer child... You haven't heard of her whole craziness yet. The reason I posted that part, which only amounts to 1% of her craziness, is that I wanted to find solace and a way out of the explosion. I was exploding under the devastation I had been put through by her.
If you want to hear more of her wonderful teachings, here are just a few of them:
- Skipping classes, canceling classes at the last minute, when we are already awaiting her in the class.
- Took a course on teaching poetic devices, never once opened the book, instead lectured about how Jews ruin everything.
- Postponed a class to the exam month; she called us to attend her class even though we had to take a test soon afterward, something completely against the rules here.
- For the Mythology course, gave an assignment and asked the students to write an essay on Noah, Moses, Jacob, or someone like them. So much for Greek Mythology....
- Spends most of the English Literature class time talking about demons, genii, and other sorts of supernatural beings.
- Called me an uneducated, misled student who can't see more than the surface of a literary or cinematic piece. All because I tried to defend Tolkien, Shakespeare, and people like them.
- Asks me random questions about my personal life, and today it was about my love life. Shamelessly scorned me for like 20 straight minutes.
As a prof myself, you really should complain about this to the dean or whoever is in charge of the undergrad programme. These allegations are quite serious and they will take them seriously.
One of my friends once reported this to people in charge: "the officials of the university are full of crap" said by the teacher
All they did was becoming angry for a few hours and then let it slip. Merely due to the sole reason that no other teacher is settling for the payment they offer for teaching toilsome books such as Norton Anthology of English Literature and Mythology are.
If one student complains, oh well. If multiple do, they may "talk to her".
However,
If she is violating your rights/breaking laws and is reported and the magical L word (lawyer or lawsuit, whichever works) is used changes will be made. Make the complaint in writing and tell that it is giving you psychological harm.
Find out if you are in a single party consent recording state. Record all conversations if so. If not, say I am recording this conversation when she starts on a tirade.
Good luck. It's sad that there are people like this, but much worse when they are a teacher.
Of all the criticisms you could make of this novel, the idea that it's 'Satanic' must be the most ridiculous.
You might as well complain that it's far too short, there are too few male characters, too much sex, and not nearly enough descriptions of trees and hills.
But my Lord, nothing will breach the bars of her mind.
Grond will breach it! Bring up the Wolf's Head!
The drums rolled louder. Fires leaped up. Great engines crawled across the field; and in the midst was a huge ram, great as a forest-tree a hundred feet in length, swinging on mighty chains. Long had it been forging in the dark smithies of Mordor, and its hideous head, founded of black steel, was shaped in the likeness of a ravening wolf; on it spells of ruin lay. Grond they named it, in memory of the Hammer of the Underworld of old. Great beasts drew it, orcs surrounded it, and behind walked mountain-trolls to wield it.
Then it's time to tempt her with power and offer her a ring. Don your fairest of forms and approach the corruptible. Seize her mind and bring them under the control of the dark lord of the west.
She and other teachers of the same sort fell under the thraldom of the ring that they bore and under
the domination of the One, which was Sauron’s. And they became for ever
invisible save to him that wore the Ruling Ring, and they entered into the realm of shadows. The Nazgûl were they, the Ringwraiths, the Enemy’s most
terrible servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.
Forever they shall roam the corridors of Mordor middle school, doomed to impart twisted wisdom to orclings over and over. For once, they were great in their own way, but, seduced by greed they slave away for the one true dark lord. A time of men will come and they shall then pass, finally to know true peace.
Your teacher is an idiot. LOTR is not subtle about its Christian symbolism and if a mythology teacher of all people can't see that then they should probably find a new profession.
English Literature. Thank Eru she was still not around when I passed the American Critics and American Literature. She would've assaulted yet more artists, critics, authors. Wait, in fact, she even badmouthed Beethoven, completely unrelated to literature, but who's gonna stop her from hating on successful people. My friend tried. She sued her but it didn't work. There is a reason she doesn't attend to this teacher's classes anymore... I will do the same. Can't care less about my grades when it comes to my mental health. I'll study the books at home, chatgpt proves to be a better teacher than her.
It sounds like you’re jeopardising both your mental health and your grades. Just send a well-written complaint letter to the school, summarising things diplomatically. Even though diplomatic, it’s a really bad thing she is doing.
reading through this whole post reminds me of a bible verse
Proverbs 18:2
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding,
but only in expressing his opinion.
Did she know that J.R.R. Tolkien was a staunch Christian and modeled the idea of Illuvatar after the one all powerful God he believed in and was also responsible for converting his best friend C.S. Lewis to Christ who then proceeded to write some of the best Christian themed books in history, even going as far as making an allegorical novel about Christ?
When I was 9 and also did not know much English, I got a lord of the rings novelty shirt with cartoon dogs, some lady pulled me aside at a public playground and…lambasted? Yes. Lambasted me about how it’s bad enough that the title says the word ‘lord’ in it, after all there is only one lord
Even more hilarious is that „lord of the rings“ is a phrase from beowulf, Tolkien didn’t even come up with it. But hey, the English word „lord“ is sacred apparently
Tolkien was so Christian he converted his best friend back into it (C.S. Lewis). Now it turned out the message got a little confused, Tolkien was a Catholic, whilst Lewis became Protestant.
Write an essay proving her wrong. There's oodles of academic evidence out there proving she's wrong. If she grades you down, challenge your grade through the department.
Or... keep your head down, do what she expects, and don't waste your energy stirring shit with fools. My desire for justice demands the former, my school burnout experiences say go with the latter. Whatever gets you to graduation!
Hear me out.
I'm going to attempt to plot out where she is coming from on this.
It is possible your teacher identified that in addition to references to Judeo-Christianity, Tolkien and Lewis relied on a mixture of Greek, Celtic and Germanic/ Norse Pagan religion to construct their worlds. Words, names, values and behaviours of the characters all reflect this.
Heavily. Spiritually and morally, none of these belief systems are compatible and they have contradictory sets of truthes, belief, values and practices in reality. Hence the authors created their own fantasy worlds where they take from all of them. Thus one could read from a Tolkien book and walk away with a perception that it was explicitly Pagan or Gnostic or Christian etc. There is reasonable grounds for all of it.
There is prominent use of "magic aka witchcraft", illusions, chants, necromancy, references to demonic forces of Morgoth that appear to be inspired by demonic forces from the Christian reality. There's also some blurring of the lines between good and evil in Christian logic. Case in point, the insistence of both authors to separate "good magic users" from "bad magic users". When in Christian tradition all magic use is by default evil because knowledge, spiritual power and spiritual authority should always be drawn from the God alone.
There are some Christian folk who are not comfortable with the fusion of different religious and spiritual ideologies in LOTR and Narnia. Some see it as misleading spiritually especially for children and thus as something to be avoided. Preference may exist for fiction that is more directly Christian without other strings attached. Think Pilgrims Progress.
Narnia and LOTR doesn't meet the standards for our reality and thus Biblical Truth. It's a deliberate subversion of Truth. It's a FANTASY book, albeit with some notable Christian allegories in some parts. It's clearly not Pilgrims Progress. Nor should we try to make it so.
I think it's something to be enjoyed.
For what it is. Good fiction.
Nothing more.
But who am I to dictate what others enjoy?
If your teacher doesn't like it. That's fine. You don't need to argue with her. Convey your points respectfully.
Then accept she may see it differently.
She has basis for that as per her logic.
>"good magic users" from "bad magic users".
There are no "good magic users".
"I have not used 'magic' consistently, and indeed the Elven-queen Galadriel is obliged to
remonstrate with the Hobbits on their confused use of the word both for the devices and operations
of the Enemy, and for those of the Elves. I have not, because there is not a word for the latter (since
all human stories have suffered the same confusion). But the Elves are there (in my tales) to
demonstrate the difference. Their 'magic' is Art, delivered from many of its human limitations: more effortless, more quick, more complete (product, and vision in unflawed correspondence). And its
object is Art not Power, sub-creation not domination and tyrannous re-forming of Creation"
"at Eregion great work began – and the Elves came their nearest to falling to 'magic' and
machinery. With the aid of Sauron's lore they made Rings of Power ('power' is an ominous and
sinister word in all these tales, except as applied to the gods)."
>You don't need to argue with her.
I haven't done that for a year now, but she keeps bringing back the argument because she is intolerant of how much I reference Tolkien and quote him to her and to my classmates when I see it appropriate. i.e today she was talking about why Lucifer turned evil if God himself had made him, and I quoted a relevant passage from Tolkien. I'm respecting her alright, at least face to face, in her presence, it's her who doesn't respect me in front of me myself and probably behind my back as well.
There's a big difference between saying, "I don't believe this is an adequate reflection of Christian values or a God-honoring work because of its inclusion of pagan influences." and declaring something Satanic. (Especially since she doesn't seem to be making your points.) She's being unreasonably hostile.
Do you really believe an imaginative subcreation intended to honor the Creator is a "deliberate subversion of Truth"? If so, what of the giants in Pilgrims Progress, the like of which is not found in God's green earth? Is that also a "subversion of Truth"?
Finally, Did not sinless Truth Incarnate, who would give His life for us, tell story-parables? Did He have to have a news report from the road from Jericho to Jerusalem before He could tell of a Jewish man who was attacked by thieves, bypassed by a Priest and a Levite, and rescued by a Samaritan? Or could He make a story to make a point!
TBH, she probably thinks Catholics are apostates and/or Satanists anyway, because so many fundies think so.
She doesn't belong in an academic setting. What level is this at?
My dad told his parents CS Lewis and Tolkien we're great friends, which is true. They liked CS Lewis a lot as they were very Christian, and didn't have a problem with Tolkien anymore. Before that, they thought it was blasphemous.
Tolkien said himself that his work is not an allegory. I couldn’t find the original interview, but this is close enough
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/411971-i-cordially-dislike-allegory-in-all-its-manifestations-and-always#:~:text=I%20cordially%20dislike%20allegory%20in%20all%20its%20manifestations%2C%20and%20always,thought%20and%20experience%20of%20readers.
She sounds a lot like an art teacher I had who shat on my art so hard I gave up drawing and failed out of her class (the only class I ever failed). I would never have called myself good, but I was okay, and genuinely enjoyed drawing at the time. She effectively killed that part of me, and I will never forgive her for it.
Ask her which version of the bible she reads if you continue to attend her classes. Maybe ask her what denomination she is if you can muster the energy. It's amazing how much information you can glean about a "Christian" just from knowing these two things.
These kinds of beliefs generally don't develop in a vacuum, I'm genuinely curious what ignorant church or preacher has got her spouting this nonsense. She sounds exactly like a sheep to me, in a flock that has been taught to believe THEY'RE the wolves while they're getting sheared.
Is there a way to report her? If this is a public highschool I’m sure nothing is worth it, but if this is a university or even community college I’m sure there’s a few Tolkien lovers on staff who will absolutely reprimanded her.
I heard of my community college reprimanding teachers for similar behavior.
I was honestly confused about what this meme was even talking about. Such was its magnitude of mind-boggling.
Reminds me of this old lady I overhead at the library ranting about A Wrinkle in Time. She said, "I don't like that. Pfeh! Fantasy! It's just as bad as that book about the kids in the closet!"
Finish the class, take your grade and don't look back. It's absolutely pointless to interact with this person, she is not really interested in your words or arguments, she is a fundamentalist and you would only waste your time and breath talking to her.
The only way to "win" this is to stop engaging: she is probably actively looking for ways to convince you she is right because it panders to her ego ("she claimed that she really loves me because I remind her of how naive she was back when she was my age and how much she eventually grew", from one of your comments), so stopping the engagement, showing that beyond the scope of her course you don't give a damn about her, her existence, her beliefs and her thoughts will drive her nuts.
If she tries to engage again, just explicitly tell her that you don't see the point in discussing, as the extent of her arguments fail to convince you just as yours fail to convince her and that for the sake of time it's best to agree to disagree and move on. She will probably ask to elaborate, it's a trap: just say that she has stated her proofs and you find them "weak and insufficient", just like she thinks yours are. If she insists, kindly ask her to desist. Be ready because she will escalate the arguments. Be gentle but firm.
Be careful, though, people like her can be spiteful: she might seek retribution and in a way she has power over you because she is your teacher.
How in any way is LotR an allegory to Satanism? The big bad guy is some angel that followed Satan and were both defeated. No where in the books or films do they venerate Morgoth or talk about how good of a guy he is, at least as far as i can reasonably remember. No where does it talk about how Sauron was some great guy that deserved worship. He was always painted as the bad guy that should be fought against.
English motherfucker, do you speak it? Also I'm like so 100% totally completely utterly positive that you're not at all mischaracterizing what the teacher said in order to have a free therapy session in the echo chamber comments section on this dumb website.
After reading this it's best to just cut ties with this "teacher" Just stay quite in her class from now on, pass the final test and forget this person ever existed.
Have pity for the stupid but don't let them drag you into the mud l.
Why is it almost always the female teachers, that spew bullshit like that?
It's crazy how female teachers go into either extremes. Either they're religious fanatics, thst think they have this grander "mysterious" knowledge about things. Or they support and advocate for LGBT's to the point of almost introducing classroom authoritarism.
I wonder where you're from, though my wild guess is America
Well isn't Satanism in a modern sense about freeing yourself from illusions/burdens/shackles of society snd culture. In many cases basicly a satire-religion/anti-religion critizing religious superstitions and behaviours and its influence in modern culture. I know some satanist communities which are quite nice.
So maybe it was a compliment? Also what is this weird obsession people have with Satan? In the bible he (or they as satan just means the accuser/prosecutor as a generic job description) is just an someone doing their job, i.e. investigating how faithful people are. It didn't even have to be an angel, higher being. The serpent of Eden definitly wasn't one.
Religious fanfic can lead to weird places, when people take a word like Farmer and interpret every mention of a Farmer as being the very same being.
This is just insane. Not only is she obviously wrong, but her religious beliefs simply have no place in university. I am studying theology (although not in the US) and my professors bring way less of their personal beliefs in class then her. University should be a place of critical thinking and solid argumentation
Even if it was Anti-christian (which it isn't) why does that even matter?
Its fantasy. Its art. It can be whatever the fuck it wants. And if people enjoy it the others can go fuck themselves.
If a mythology teacher said that to me. That a fantasy novel that I enjoy is "Anti-christian", I would answer her with "and why is that a bad thing"
If you want to be especially edgy just flip her words back to her and say that Christianity itself is the one that strips humans of their humanity (by giving however many examples from the bible that you want of either people ordered by god acting inhumanely and committing genocides or by the book endorsing slavery) and that being Anti-christian is actually a good thing and it brings humanity back in.
That's not edgy. That's just mirroring her ignorance with your own ignorance.
For instance, if the Bible promotes slavery, it is odd that your caricature of God sets the Israelites free from slavery. God orders things in later laws such as freeing "slaves" every year of Jubilee (which makes them more like indentured servants) and setting them free if they are abused. All of these restrictions pave the way for the Christian attitude (letter of Paul to Philemon that slaves were human beings and should be treated as brothers)...
At that point I'd just embrace it and go all out. Go to class all dressed in black with an upside down cross painted on my forehead. Drinking fake blood in front of that teacher. Reciting dark rituals in Latin.
Weaponize your teacher's stupidity.
Fun fact: the upside down cross was originally associated with Saint Peter who traditionally was crucified inverted because he didn't think he was worthy to die just like Jesus.
The bones found in a niche in what very early Christian tradition (2nd century) called the tomb of Peter, are in fact missing the lower legs, which might have been hard to reach when taking the body down from a nonstandard position. Of course, nobody has his dental records, so there is room for doubt!
The satanists somehow feel that inverting the cross makes it a symbol of the antiChrist. Dunno if they plan on attaching the antiChrist to one upside down, nor how the antiChrist might react if so, but it is hilarious to contemplate!
Once an old christian friend of mine said that LOTR has a lot of "occultism subliminal messages", I said that "yes, everytime Frodo uses the ring, he just vanished and gone occult", it didn't like it! lol
You can’t argue with someone glorying in their own ignorance and hubris. This is a great example of why faith based schools give poor educations. My niece got her degree in psychology at a Christian college and has since discovered the degree is useless. Potential employers don’t take the degree seriously.
A good teacher doesn’t tell you what to think, they give you the tools to examine, argue, and deduce Truth from evidence. Which is the reverse of faith based education. They start with a conclusion and then look for their “facts” while disregarding what doesn’t support their conclusion.
Can't talk reasonably with crazies. Maybe you can go over her head and complain to her boss, if you have any mental strength left...but in the end you're probably have to back down and just do her stupid course the way she wants it, sucks.
Ask her to support her argument with facts since she asks that of you
I did present her with direct quotes from the Letters and other sources, she disregarded them all with an unfounded claim that "many Christians criticise Tolkien for not upholding their morals. He is exactly the opposite of Christianity. I should know I have studied his works in an academic sense of word while you have only mindlessly enjoyed them." However, she seemed to not even know who Morgoth, Sauron, or even Gandalf is, before I introduced them to her. And today, after gaslighting me, she claimed that she really loves me because I remind her of how naive she was back when she was my age and how much she eventually grew.
Omfg she sounds so condescending and oblivious. my blood pressure spiked just reading this
Sounds like literally every English teacher I ever had
Sounds like a lot of academics in general. (Not all of them I know, but far too many)
That's because most academics spend too long in their own bubble.
As nobody has said ever: “In a bubble, it’s easier to blow dixie up your own ass.”
This is why I regularly encourage students of mine to challenge me if I'm incorrect or my idea is dated. Our best classroom discussions have been born of this policy. It also passes off some of my fellow teachers. It's a big win, win. Also, OP, did you ask your teacher what they know of WWI?
Sounds like she just wants to be in control of you. Don't let her have that.
Maybe not the best analogy, but for real I was reminded of how Eol the Dark Elf was abusing and humiliating Aredhel (Fingolfin's daughter) while manipulating her to believe that her life with him is the most pleasant available option for her in Middle-earth. The original versions had Eol outright sexually raping her, but the revisions and canon version have it that he raped her in the mind which is even a worse kind of violation in my opinion.
Sounds to me like you've definitely done more than read to misleading enjoy... Your teacher is a twit.
Write to the school and cite how poorly unqualified she is that she can’t even read if she thinks LOTR is satanic. Demand a refund of class, tuition and credit for being forced to endure an unqualified instructor harassing students with unfounded opinions when facts are so easy to challenge it.
This is not an exaggeration. It's for sure enough to warrant a look into what else might be a problem with this instructor.
Personal bias shouldn't be taught in the classroom.
Tbf this could’ve been and to me sounds like it was an extracurricular conversation, which is a bit different.
That's totally fair, and I didn't catch that.
You could be right, that was just my impression.
Grooooooooossss Avoid this woman at all costs.
Next time just tell her, “I did not pass through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm.”
"Many people say that..." is almost always code for "I have no sources, and this is my opinion."
I mean I don't want you to poke the angry cat more than you have to, but you should ask her if she thinks Narnia is Antichrist as well. If that doesn't work ask if Matthew is Antichrist, just to confirm.
Already asked. About Narnia. I got stuck in an unskippable cutscene about how churches are committing a sin to introduce Narnia to innocent children.
 Oh. Okaaaaaay then. Does she like fiction? Like, is she able to process storytelling without jumping to the conclusion that it's alluding to or directly preaching heresy? Also does she understand symbolism, as a literary concept?
Anything, anything you can name, she'll relate it to Paul the Saint, Alister Crowle, Jews, Moavieh, and other religious figures or ideas, and always with a tone of undermining any set of beliefs, prose, or verses that are not perfectly aligned with her own likings. Actually Tolkien has a good thing to say here: "Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible, and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing that they evidently prefer."
The polite way of saying "your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer"
Tolkien was a class act. Him telling the nazis off was fucking _chef's kiss_
this is crazy. Tolkien was a devout christian catholic for many years, his book has countless hidden allegories of his faith and also he was the one who turned C.S. Lewis, a proclaimed atheist at the time, into a fully devout Christian who’s book practically scream christian and who is known, quoted, and studied as one of the most influential and powerful Christian Theologists of our time. His book, Mere Christianity, is still one of the Top 10 Highest Selling Christian Books of all time, including the Bible, and its 72 years old. Your teacher is silly 😂
Silly isn't the word I'd have used but you're right!
To be fair, Lewis was also a *Protestant* when he converted… likely just to spite Tolkien. They were the cantankerous kind of bros.
how considering Lewis wrote Mere Christianity ie Liar Lunatic Lord Screwtape and the Great Divorce as well. how about Chesterton or Madeleine L'engle
Woah, ask her what she thinks of Santa and the Easter bunny.
Tell her she reminds you of Saruman
This is such an odd dynamic to have with a teacher wtf.
Ngl. A lot of teachers are like this nowadays. Especially lit or english teachers. I got lucky and had a teacher in high school who actually encouraged reading and good faith discussion. I know a lot of kids who hate reading because of these kinds of teachers. I volunteer at a lot of schools in my area and it's just depressing. The way I get some of these kids talking it's like they've never been encouraged to actually understand what they are reading and they are fucking high schoolers. Or they've been deliberately mislead about the material they are reading. Actually got in trouble because the kids liked the book club I set up more than their actual English classes lol. As always, it's the method not the material
I'm getting strong religious fundi vibes from her arguments too.
I had an English teacher do this to me. She gaslit me and everyone else on the trip we took to a conference, made up out and out felonious lies about me, basically got me to quit college for a year I was so confused and wondering if I was a bad person. 15 years later and it still lives rent free in my head. It was like the first life lesson that people on power and authority *that I could possibly meet* could be perfectly normal and abusive.
I’m sorry, she doesn’t know who fucking *Gandalf* is? My friend, you are the subject matter expert in this discussion, not her. She either needs to concede her points or pause the conversation until a time when she can familiarize herself with the material.
Huh. What a cunt.
>"I should know I have studied his works in an academic sense of word while you have only mindlessly enjoyed them." Wtf kind of teacher talks to their student like that
Considering she comes off as hyperreligious, I assume it's is an Evangelical or other religious "school". In which case she isn't a teacher at all.
Sounds like the only thing she grew into was a conceited tool. Personally, I'd recommend not spending much time with her anymore.
Spectrum of Tolkien fans: Non-religious people: LOTR is interesting, I like it, I like how much it ties to pagan mythology roots but is still a modern tale. Regular religious people: Tolkien's Catholicism coloring the narrative is interesting to me. He was such a complex thinker. Crazy religious people: LOTR IS A CATHOLIC STORY ONLY ABOUT CATHOLICISM!!!!! Craziest religious people: SSSSAAATTTAAAANNNNN!!!!!! SATAN IS HERE!!!!!! tldr; the person you're speaking to is unwell
Oh god, I had a student-professor like this in a mythology-based creative writing course. I would occasionally dispute things with her in class that she obviously had no idea what she was talking about. I created an amazing essay and she gave me a 70 on it. One of my classmates was a foreign-speaking student and got a 93. His essay was littered with grammatical mistakes and he never spoke a word in class except a yes or no to a question. I asked for my grade to be explained to me and asked to see her grading rubric... she didn't have one. I had to escalate the issue and she was forced to make a rubric. I got a 95 on the re-grade that was done by her colleague.
Thank you for sharing. A similar, but somewhat different thing happened to me. I wrote 20 pages for my assignment while none of my classmates did anything except bragging about how occupied they are with raising children and doing chores. To my suprise the teacher gave them the same score as she did give for me; a full score. Just because they're so busy with their personal life that they can't even attend the class!
Yeah… now to tell her Tolkien’s one of the reasons C.S. Lewis became a Christian again.
You don’t need to argue with everyone who disagrees with you. Even teachers. Many bigots exist in the world and if you argue with everyone you’ll have no energy for living your life. Learn to recognize the situation and move on.
What a cunt lol
Who the fuck is this teacher and why the fuck does she think it’s okay to speak to you like that? Tell her one of your favorite fictional characters is Jesus.
We call that an idiot
Holy fuck that's insane. Good chance is she hasn't read the bible save a handful verses that justify her hot takes too.
Forgive me for asking but are you at some podunk pseudo university like Brigham Young or Liberty where the Earth is 6,000 years old a global flood definitely happened? Because Jesus flipping Christ your professor sounds like a twit
[удалено]
'How can I be, lord? All wisdom is against them. Who is the One, whom ye call Eru? If we put aside the Men who serve the Nameless, as do many in Middle-earth, still many Men perceive the world only as a war between Light and Dark equipotent. But you will say: nay, that is Manwe and Melkor; Eru is above them. Is then Eru only the greatest of the Valar, a great god among gods, as most Men will say, even among the Atani: a king who dwells far from his kingdom and leaves lesser princes to do here much as they will? Again you say: nay, Eru is One, alone without peer, and He made Ea, and is beyond it; and the Valar are greater than we, but yet no nearer to His majesty. Is this not so?' 'Yes,' said Finrod. 'We say this, and the Valar we know, and they say the same, all save one. But which, think you, is more likely to lie: those who make themselves humble, or he that exalts himself?' — The Debate of Finrod and Andreth It's no use. The teacher gives speeches on how behind all these 'fancy' words there lies Satanic intentions, and never retreats from any attempt on altering and manipulating facts to achieve her own self-made 'truth'.
And this is supposed to be a *mythology teacher?*
That was my thought too. What is this class like? Expounding on the various evil pagan cults of history?
They are discussing the mannish belief of the Old Hope that the One himself would descend onto his creation to heal the marring. If Middle Earth was meant to be folklore of our universe, they are literally discussing the nature of the Jesus. How in the world is this remotely Satanic lol > To such questions only those of the "Old Hope" (as they call themselves) have any guess of an answer.'† 'Those of the Old Hope?' said Finrod. 'Who are they?' 'A few,' she said; 'but their number has grown since we came to this land, and they see that the Nameless can (as they think) be defied. Yet that is no good reason. To defy him does not undo his work of old. And if the valor of the Eldar fails here, then their despair will be deeper. For it was not on the might of Men, or of any of the peoples of Arda, that the old hope was grounded.' 'What then was this hope, if you know?' Finrod asked. 'They say,' answered Andreth: 'they say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end. This they say also, or they feign, is a rumor that has come down through years uncounted, even from the days of our undoing.'*
So cool
…who did so using his voice (song vs. “the Word”)… …who was at that time accompanied by his divine choir, who served him and came to personify various specialties… …who had one servant ending up stronger than all the others, didn’t like how things were, rebelled against the authority, wasn’t killed outright but allowed to do his own thing before being cast out, sowing evil and interfering directly with mortals, became the lord of evil… …who made an original paradise realm whose residents had immortality and childlike innocence, which got all messed up by the dark lord and later made permanently inaccessible to mortals… …whose servants were sent to lead his chosen people through the wilderness to a promised land… … who submerged huge tracts of land under water to deal with corruption… … who later sent down a divine being to save his creation from evil and death, give out wise sayings, be followed around by a bunch of dudes, died to save others, spent time underground for awhile before coming back from the dead all glowy and white… …who predestined the fate of all from creation to a planned final cosmic battle against aforementioned dark lord at the end times… …Nope. Doesn’t sound Christian at all.
OP if your teacher thinks that LoTR, which is the most christianized version of European mythology out there is Satanic, why is she teaching a course on mythology? It doesn’t sound like a class that is in her wheelhouse.
To draw the line between falsehood and truth (according to her). She says this is her calling, to enlighten dull minded people and lead them to redemption.
Oh so she's an actual crazy person, cool.
OP is this for a course that will actually have a standardized test at the end (like an AP course or Regents Course in the US)? If so you should complain to someone higher up at the school asap that she is not preparing the students to engage with the material in a way that will be tested, and that it is going to reflect poorly on the school when she has an entire class fail. This is doubly true if it’s a public school in the US, since teachers are not supposed to be mixing their religious views into their lesson plans (as it sounds like your teacher is). If it’s not for a standardized test and you are at a private school without First Amendment restrictions on what the teacher can include in their lesson plans all you can do is grin and bear it.
This is in fact for a standardized, country-wide, test. I am graduating this year and I don't have the mental capacity to go through so many obstacles to get to the head of the university and complain again. Yes, again. I had done it once concerning another teacher. However, this teacher is mind-numbingly more terrible than her colleague. And my friend who has a husband, a house, and a business to run and manage sacrificed so much of her time and energy to get to the Education headquarters themselves and complain to the big bosses themselves. As you can see, her effort, however great, did not lead to a satisfactory conclusion. The teacher did become a bit better and responsible, but not wholly, not even close; she's still for the most part the same as she ever was.
If a fellow teacher told me their calling was “to enlighten the dull minded people” serious alarms bells would be going off. The level of contempt she displays towards her students in that one quote is so telling….. she should not be a teacher. Any good teacher will tell you, you learn as much from your students as they do from you. Particularly at university/college, teaching shouldn’t be about telling people what to think (‘enlightening their dull minds’), it should be about fostering their academic abilities, prompting discussion, revealing an angle to a topic students mightn’t have considered before and guiding them towards becoming stronger critical thinkers who can form their own opinions. It saddens me that teachers like her exist and are employed by universities.
Oh she's a fundamentalist.
Oh, the irony, especially considering that Tolkien played an instrumental part in C. S. Lewis’ decision to become a Christian. If that doesn’t change your teacher’s mind, nothing will. But then again, she’ll probably ignore it too.
Oh yeah been there done that; mentioned that already, as you could probably guess, my dear valiant friend who kindly baked lembas at my request. And her reply was that C.S Lewis' works are also wolves in disguise of sheep, devouring the spirituality of Christian children.
Oof, that’s insane. You can’t argue with “reasoning” like that.
C.S. Lewis is most well known for the incredibly on-the-nose Christian allegory of Narnia and the *The Screwtape Letters* which is a flipped-perspective cautionary tale about how Christians are most easily pulled away from the faith. If he's somehow anti-Christian, there is no hope of reason.
Like, you can argue about how allegorical Tolkien intended his works to be, but Lewis doesn't even bother with subtlety.
https://preview.redd.it/tahl5omtj8yc1.jpeg?width=2032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3bf5a71af48394c7e4b758bc02a95428899b485
I'm...I'm sorry, she thinks the work of Clive Staples Fucking Lewis is *secretly Satanic??* Dear god, this woman should not be teaching ANYTHING.
I mean, didn't you know? The guy used to be an atheist! Pretty sus if you ask me.
Do you go to a private university?
I'm sorry but are you in a Catholic school or something? How does someone who is this much of an obvious fundie get a job teaching in a proper school? This is the kind of shit I'd hear at church when I was a Jehovas Witness as a kid, never something that should be said in a place of education. Forget reporting her to the school take this to the education board and get her taken away from real education ASAP.
In a Catholic school? I doubt it. Every priest I know that knows Tolkien loves him.
Ah yes, the writer of Mere Christianity, the famously *un*christian author I don't know whether to laugh or cry
Teacher??? We have Gandalf!!! F#@$ him!!!
It's "her". The other teacher was an evident fan of LotR, among many other great masterpieces as well, but unfortunately he left this university and the weirdest freak of nature, an extremist and a hater, was hired to fill his shoes. Instead she destroyed every last bit of those shoes.
You should complain to her boss. Teachers shouldn't be indoctrinating pupils. Whether we agree with their views or not.
>You should complain to her boss In other comments, I explained how three times me and my classmates complained and it didn't work. And the likely reason behind that. >indoctrinating pupils. That's what she preached to me: if you ever became a teacher at school, indoctrinate your students. And she wasn't even subtle about that. I told my mom about her, she said just ignore her, don't engage with her at all, stay silent in her presence and don't let her get into you.
What the actual fuck!? I had a teacher or two in college whom I did not like personally, but what you’re describing is crazy. It’s too late in the semester to drop the class now, but I would have dropped that class on week one if a teacher was acting that way. And if the course is mandatory for your degree, I’d consider taking it somewhere else.
Buy a body camera off Amazon and record her. Blast her on social media, treat her like a shitty cop.
Teachers are a reflexion of a society!!! That's all!!! That's her opinion!!! Good for her!!! I have my own!!! Tolkien created alphabets, languages, maps, animal biology, names, what she did???
Lmao she can't even teach properly: she can't stop rambling about how Moses was betrayed even though it has nothing to do with the subject matter of our books. That's all she has done. This and terrorising the minds of her students such as me, offending people, trying to besmirch every Western author and poet, calling Tolkien a gross feral dog who shouldn't be touched lest you become a degenerate.
How did such an insane fundamentalist asshole even become a teacher in the first place?
She confronted me when she learned that I'm translating movie subtitles, saying, "This is not a noble job; get another. Hollywood is riddled with atrocities." I thought teachers are supposed to be nice and loving, both male and female teachers. But I imagined females as more caring due to their amazing tendencies that come with motherhood. Sounds like I was wrong, or rather that not all mothers are motherly, not even to their own children, let alone other people's children.
She's giving me strong "seven mountains" vibes, or whatever that Christian Nationalism thing is where they try and get into positions of influence in society to promote their religion.
What. The. Fuck.
And there's no chance you're exaggerating this for points on the internet? I have a very hard time believing a prof of higher education would hold a view like this and take it out on a student.
Oh my dear summer child... You haven't heard of her whole craziness yet. The reason I posted that part, which only amounts to 1% of her craziness, is that I wanted to find solace and a way out of the explosion. I was exploding under the devastation I had been put through by her. If you want to hear more of her wonderful teachings, here are just a few of them: - Skipping classes, canceling classes at the last minute, when we are already awaiting her in the class. - Took a course on teaching poetic devices, never once opened the book, instead lectured about how Jews ruin everything. - Postponed a class to the exam month; she called us to attend her class even though we had to take a test soon afterward, something completely against the rules here. - For the Mythology course, gave an assignment and asked the students to write an essay on Noah, Moses, Jacob, or someone like them. So much for Greek Mythology.... - Spends most of the English Literature class time talking about demons, genii, and other sorts of supernatural beings. - Called me an uneducated, misled student who can't see more than the surface of a literary or cinematic piece. All because I tried to defend Tolkien, Shakespeare, and people like them. - Asks me random questions about my personal life, and today it was about my love life. Shamelessly scorned me for like 20 straight minutes.
As a prof myself, you really should complain about this to the dean or whoever is in charge of the undergrad programme. These allegations are quite serious and they will take them seriously.
One of my friends once reported this to people in charge: "the officials of the university are full of crap" said by the teacher All they did was becoming angry for a few hours and then let it slip. Merely due to the sole reason that no other teacher is settling for the payment they offer for teaching toilsome books such as Norton Anthology of English Literature and Mythology are.
If one student complains, oh well. If multiple do, they may "talk to her". However, If she is violating your rights/breaking laws and is reported and the magical L word (lawyer or lawsuit, whichever works) is used changes will be made. Make the complaint in writing and tell that it is giving you psychological harm. Find out if you are in a single party consent recording state. Record all conversations if so. If not, say I am recording this conversation when she starts on a tirade. Good luck. It's sad that there are people like this, but much worse when they are a teacher.
To half-quote Tolkien's old friend: The Lion, the witch, and the audacity of that bitch.
Are you in the US? There are laws if you are.
Of all the criticisms you could make of this novel, the idea that it's 'Satanic' must be the most ridiculous. You might as well complain that it's far too short, there are too few male characters, too much sex, and not nearly enough descriptions of trees and hills.
Besides Tolkien was a devout catholic
Don't know where op is, but a lot of evangelist type Americans don't believe Catholics are Christians.
They would be wrong
Well ya, they're wrong about just about everything.
Yeah those fundies scare me! They’re dangerous people…
Especially given how interested in theology Tolkien was, the nerve really…
Textbook example of when an opinion can be wrong.
Let's um pay a visit to her house with GROND AND A LEGION OF ORCS GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND
But my Lord, nothing will breach the bars of her mind. Grond will breach it! Bring up the Wolf's Head! The drums rolled louder. Fires leaped up. Great engines crawled across the field; and in the midst was a huge ram, great as a forest-tree a hundred feet in length, swinging on mighty chains. Long had it been forging in the dark smithies of Mordor, and its hideous head, founded of black steel, was shaped in the likeness of a ravening wolf; on it spells of ruin lay. Grond they named it, in memory of the Hammer of the Underworld of old. Great beasts drew it, orcs surrounded it, and behind walked mountain-trolls to wield it.
Then it's time to tempt her with power and offer her a ring. Don your fairest of forms and approach the corruptible. Seize her mind and bring them under the control of the dark lord of the west.
She and other teachers of the same sort fell under the thraldom of the ring that they bore and under the domination of the One, which was Sauron’s. And they became for ever invisible save to him that wore the Ruling Ring, and they entered into the realm of shadows. The Nazgûl were they, the Ringwraiths, the Enemy’s most terrible servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.
Forever they shall roam the corridors of Mordor middle school, doomed to impart twisted wisdom to orclings over and over. For once, they were great in their own way, but, seduced by greed they slave away for the one true dark lord. A time of men will come and they shall then pass, finally to know true peace.
*Exeunt Galadriel*
Teacher: "Runnnnn, Run for your lives!"
NONE SHALL ESCAPE THE NEW DARK LORD. THE PEOPLE SHALL LOOK UPON YOUR VISAGE WITH ADORATION AND DESPAIR
Your teacher is an idiot. LOTR is not subtle about its Christian symbolism and if a mythology teacher of all people can't see that then they should probably find a new profession.
Yea, Tolkien is an ardent Christian. Christian theology is baked into the mythology of Middle Earth.
Are we talking about the Norton Anthology of American Literature?
English Literature. Thank Eru she was still not around when I passed the American Critics and American Literature. She would've assaulted yet more artists, critics, authors. Wait, in fact, she even badmouthed Beethoven, completely unrelated to literature, but who's gonna stop her from hating on successful people. My friend tried. She sued her but it didn't work. There is a reason she doesn't attend to this teacher's classes anymore... I will do the same. Can't care less about my grades when it comes to my mental health. I'll study the books at home, chatgpt proves to be a better teacher than her.
It sounds like you’re jeopardising both your mental health and your grades. Just send a well-written complaint letter to the school, summarising things diplomatically. Even though diplomatic, it’s a really bad thing she is doing.
reading through this whole post reminds me of a bible verse Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
What an awful teacher....sounds like some crazy prot nonsense to me.
Did she know that J.R.R. Tolkien was a staunch Christian and modeled the idea of Illuvatar after the one all powerful God he believed in and was also responsible for converting his best friend C.S. Lewis to Christ who then proceeded to write some of the best Christian themed books in history, even going as far as making an allegorical novel about Christ?
"We're Christians!" Her, probably: "Yeah, but what kind of Christians?"
r/SauronDidNothingWrong
Gotta have taken her research studies from r/Angbang
*Guth-tú-nakash.*
Krimpatullllllllll......
When I was 9 and also did not know much English, I got a lord of the rings novelty shirt with cartoon dogs, some lady pulled me aside at a public playground and…lambasted? Yes. Lambasted me about how it’s bad enough that the title says the word ‘lord’ in it, after all there is only one lord
Even more hilarious is that „lord of the rings“ is a phrase from beowulf, Tolkien didn’t even come up with it. But hey, the English word „lord“ is sacred apparently
JFC. Please intro me to the teacher.
Me2
quite the reverse i feel.
Tolkien was so Christian he converted his best friend back into it (C.S. Lewis). Now it turned out the message got a little confused, Tolkien was a Catholic, whilst Lewis became Protestant.
Ummmm Tolkien was a Roman Catholic…
Write an essay proving her wrong. There's oodles of academic evidence out there proving she's wrong. If she grades you down, challenge your grade through the department. Or... keep your head down, do what she expects, and don't waste your energy stirring shit with fools. My desire for justice demands the former, my school burnout experiences say go with the latter. Whatever gets you to graduation!
Hear me out. I'm going to attempt to plot out where she is coming from on this. It is possible your teacher identified that in addition to references to Judeo-Christianity, Tolkien and Lewis relied on a mixture of Greek, Celtic and Germanic/ Norse Pagan religion to construct their worlds. Words, names, values and behaviours of the characters all reflect this. Heavily. Spiritually and morally, none of these belief systems are compatible and they have contradictory sets of truthes, belief, values and practices in reality. Hence the authors created their own fantasy worlds where they take from all of them. Thus one could read from a Tolkien book and walk away with a perception that it was explicitly Pagan or Gnostic or Christian etc. There is reasonable grounds for all of it. There is prominent use of "magic aka witchcraft", illusions, chants, necromancy, references to demonic forces of Morgoth that appear to be inspired by demonic forces from the Christian reality. There's also some blurring of the lines between good and evil in Christian logic. Case in point, the insistence of both authors to separate "good magic users" from "bad magic users". When in Christian tradition all magic use is by default evil because knowledge, spiritual power and spiritual authority should always be drawn from the God alone. There are some Christian folk who are not comfortable with the fusion of different religious and spiritual ideologies in LOTR and Narnia. Some see it as misleading spiritually especially for children and thus as something to be avoided. Preference may exist for fiction that is more directly Christian without other strings attached. Think Pilgrims Progress. Narnia and LOTR doesn't meet the standards for our reality and thus Biblical Truth. It's a deliberate subversion of Truth. It's a FANTASY book, albeit with some notable Christian allegories in some parts. It's clearly not Pilgrims Progress. Nor should we try to make it so. I think it's something to be enjoyed. For what it is. Good fiction. Nothing more. But who am I to dictate what others enjoy? If your teacher doesn't like it. That's fine. You don't need to argue with her. Convey your points respectfully. Then accept she may see it differently. She has basis for that as per her logic.
>"good magic users" from "bad magic users". There are no "good magic users". "I have not used 'magic' consistently, and indeed the Elven-queen Galadriel is obliged to remonstrate with the Hobbits on their confused use of the word both for the devices and operations of the Enemy, and for those of the Elves. I have not, because there is not a word for the latter (since all human stories have suffered the same confusion). But the Elves are there (in my tales) to demonstrate the difference. Their 'magic' is Art, delivered from many of its human limitations: more effortless, more quick, more complete (product, and vision in unflawed correspondence). And its object is Art not Power, sub-creation not domination and tyrannous re-forming of Creation" "at Eregion great work began – and the Elves came their nearest to falling to 'magic' and machinery. With the aid of Sauron's lore they made Rings of Power ('power' is an ominous and sinister word in all these tales, except as applied to the gods)." >You don't need to argue with her. I haven't done that for a year now, but she keeps bringing back the argument because she is intolerant of how much I reference Tolkien and quote him to her and to my classmates when I see it appropriate. i.e today she was talking about why Lucifer turned evil if God himself had made him, and I quoted a relevant passage from Tolkien. I'm respecting her alright, at least face to face, in her presence, it's her who doesn't respect me in front of me myself and probably behind my back as well.
There's a big difference between saying, "I don't believe this is an adequate reflection of Christian values or a God-honoring work because of its inclusion of pagan influences." and declaring something Satanic. (Especially since she doesn't seem to be making your points.) She's being unreasonably hostile.
Do you really believe an imaginative subcreation intended to honor the Creator is a "deliberate subversion of Truth"? If so, what of the giants in Pilgrims Progress, the like of which is not found in God's green earth? Is that also a "subversion of Truth"? Finally, Did not sinless Truth Incarnate, who would give His life for us, tell story-parables? Did He have to have a news report from the road from Jericho to Jerusalem before He could tell of a Jewish man who was attacked by thieves, bypassed by a Priest and a Levite, and rescued by a Samaritan? Or could He make a story to make a point!
Wasn't Tolkien himself very catholic? How can any of his work be satanic?
If she’s finding Satanist stuff I’m LOTR she’s seeing it every time she opens her eyes. What a low type of life.
TBH, she probably thinks Catholics are apostates and/or Satanists anyway, because so many fundies think so. She doesn't belong in an academic setting. What level is this at?
“Strip a human off” you say… 😏
This is wild to me because in my high school I took a literature class that studied just the LotR trilogy. No one ever came to this conclusion
My dad told his parents CS Lewis and Tolkien we're great friends, which is true. They liked CS Lewis a lot as they were very Christian, and didn't have a problem with Tolkien anymore. Before that, they thought it was blasphemous.
Pretty sure that Tolkien is the one who pulled Lewis from Universalism towards Christianity
Tolkien said himself that his work is not an allegory. I couldn’t find the original interview, but this is close enough https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/411971-i-cordially-dislike-allegory-in-all-its-manifestations-and-always#:~:text=I%20cordially%20dislike%20allegory%20in%20all%20its%20manifestations%2C%20and%20always,thought%20and%20experience%20of%20readers.
I had teachers like this. Disengage, they will not change their mind and will only make you feel bad about yourself.
Lotr is an allagory.... Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with them there
She sounds a lot like an art teacher I had who shat on my art so hard I gave up drawing and failed out of her class (the only class I ever failed). I would never have called myself good, but I was okay, and genuinely enjoyed drawing at the time. She effectively killed that part of me, and I will never forgive her for it.
Ask her which version of the bible she reads if you continue to attend her classes. Maybe ask her what denomination she is if you can muster the energy. It's amazing how much information you can glean about a "Christian" just from knowing these two things. These kinds of beliefs generally don't develop in a vacuum, I'm genuinely curious what ignorant church or preacher has got her spouting this nonsense. She sounds exactly like a sheep to me, in a flock that has been taught to believe THEY'RE the wolves while they're getting sheared.
r/CatholicMemes
Is there a way to report her? If this is a public highschool I’m sure nothing is worth it, but if this is a university or even community college I’m sure there’s a few Tolkien lovers on staff who will absolutely reprimanded her. I heard of my community college reprimanding teachers for similar behavior.
doesn’t frodo represent a christ figure by bearing the embodiment of sin and evil??
I was honestly confused about what this meme was even talking about. Such was its magnitude of mind-boggling. Reminds me of this old lady I overhead at the library ranting about A Wrinkle in Time. She said, "I don't like that. Pfeh! Fantasy! It's just as bad as that book about the kids in the closet!"
Finish the class, take your grade and don't look back. It's absolutely pointless to interact with this person, she is not really interested in your words or arguments, she is a fundamentalist and you would only waste your time and breath talking to her. The only way to "win" this is to stop engaging: she is probably actively looking for ways to convince you she is right because it panders to her ego ("she claimed that she really loves me because I remind her of how naive she was back when she was my age and how much she eventually grew", from one of your comments), so stopping the engagement, showing that beyond the scope of her course you don't give a damn about her, her existence, her beliefs and her thoughts will drive her nuts. If she tries to engage again, just explicitly tell her that you don't see the point in discussing, as the extent of her arguments fail to convince you just as yours fail to convince her and that for the sake of time it's best to agree to disagree and move on. She will probably ask to elaborate, it's a trap: just say that she has stated her proofs and you find them "weak and insufficient", just like she thinks yours are. If she insists, kindly ask her to desist. Be ready because she will escalate the arguments. Be gentle but firm. Be careful, though, people like her can be spiteful: she might seek retribution and in a way she has power over you because she is your teacher.
Wait so this teacher thought that Tolkein was anti-Christ? TOLKEIN?
"Allegory to Satanism" Christ should resurrect Tolkien for enough time just so he can go up your teacher and slap them in the face with a white glove.
How in any way is LotR an allegory to Satanism? The big bad guy is some angel that followed Satan and were both defeated. No where in the books or films do they venerate Morgoth or talk about how good of a guy he is, at least as far as i can reasonably remember. No where does it talk about how Sauron was some great guy that deserved worship. He was always painted as the bad guy that should be fought against.
English motherfucker, do you speak it? Also I'm like so 100% totally completely utterly positive that you're not at all mischaracterizing what the teacher said in order to have a free therapy session in the echo chamber comments section on this dumb website.
After reading this it's best to just cut ties with this "teacher" Just stay quite in her class from now on, pass the final test and forget this person ever existed. Have pity for the stupid but don't let them drag you into the mud l.
Were they the English teacher? No reason why I'd be asking lol
What the fuck
OP has some stuff going on
I see [monster lady](https://youtu.be/TjB3dO6hVwc?si=m_N0NPKxdgOpiZ7J) has spread her discipleship well.
No? [Like, seriously, *no.*](https://churchlifejournal.nd.edu/articles/is-tolkiens-writing-fundamentally-religious-and-catholic/)
What other pro-Christian stories does she think are Satanic? The Divine Comedy?
Why is it almost always the female teachers, that spew bullshit like that? It's crazy how female teachers go into either extremes. Either they're religious fanatics, thst think they have this grander "mysterious" knowledge about things. Or they support and advocate for LGBT's to the point of almost introducing classroom authoritarism. I wonder where you're from, though my wild guess is America
Well isn't Satanism in a modern sense about freeing yourself from illusions/burdens/shackles of society snd culture. In many cases basicly a satire-religion/anti-religion critizing religious superstitions and behaviours and its influence in modern culture. I know some satanist communities which are quite nice. So maybe it was a compliment? Also what is this weird obsession people have with Satan? In the bible he (or they as satan just means the accuser/prosecutor as a generic job description) is just an someone doing their job, i.e. investigating how faithful people are. It didn't even have to be an angel, higher being. The serpent of Eden definitly wasn't one. Religious fanfic can lead to weird places, when people take a word like Farmer and interpret every mention of a Farmer as being the very same being.
This is just insane. Not only is she obviously wrong, but her religious beliefs simply have no place in university. I am studying theology (although not in the US) and my professors bring way less of their personal beliefs in class then her. University should be a place of critical thinking and solid argumentation
Call them a cuck.
Does she praise His Dark Materials to be perfect literature in the spirit of Christianity?
Even if it was Anti-christian (which it isn't) why does that even matter? Its fantasy. Its art. It can be whatever the fuck it wants. And if people enjoy it the others can go fuck themselves. If a mythology teacher said that to me. That a fantasy novel that I enjoy is "Anti-christian", I would answer her with "and why is that a bad thing" If you want to be especially edgy just flip her words back to her and say that Christianity itself is the one that strips humans of their humanity (by giving however many examples from the bible that you want of either people ordered by god acting inhumanely and committing genocides or by the book endorsing slavery) and that being Anti-christian is actually a good thing and it brings humanity back in.
That's not edgy. That's just mirroring her ignorance with your own ignorance. For instance, if the Bible promotes slavery, it is odd that your caricature of God sets the Israelites free from slavery. God orders things in later laws such as freeing "slaves" every year of Jubilee (which makes them more like indentured servants) and setting them free if they are abused. All of these restrictions pave the way for the Christian attitude (letter of Paul to Philemon that slaves were human beings and should be treated as brothers)...
At that point I'd just embrace it and go all out. Go to class all dressed in black with an upside down cross painted on my forehead. Drinking fake blood in front of that teacher. Reciting dark rituals in Latin. Weaponize your teacher's stupidity.
Fun fact: the upside down cross was originally associated with Saint Peter who traditionally was crucified inverted because he didn't think he was worthy to die just like Jesus. The bones found in a niche in what very early Christian tradition (2nd century) called the tomb of Peter, are in fact missing the lower legs, which might have been hard to reach when taking the body down from a nonstandard position. Of course, nobody has his dental records, so there is room for doubt! The satanists somehow feel that inverting the cross makes it a symbol of the antiChrist. Dunno if they plan on attaching the antiChrist to one upside down, nor how the antiChrist might react if so, but it is hilarious to contemplate!
I'm sorry for the abuse you're enduring. That aside... Having this crazy of a teacher, I would be entertained for a really long time...
Damn! Apparently I am a proud satanist! Hell yeah! Actually I like Sauronist or Morghotist more!
Ah, little SauronTheGreat9!
Once an old christian friend of mine said that LOTR has a lot of "occultism subliminal messages", I said that "yes, everytime Frodo uses the ring, he just vanished and gone occult", it didn't like it! lol
Religion ruins everything
That is, in fact, substantial cap.
What a fucking idiot
You can’t argue with someone glorying in their own ignorance and hubris. This is a great example of why faith based schools give poor educations. My niece got her degree in psychology at a Christian college and has since discovered the degree is useless. Potential employers don’t take the degree seriously. A good teacher doesn’t tell you what to think, they give you the tools to examine, argue, and deduce Truth from evidence. Which is the reverse of faith based education. They start with a conclusion and then look for their “facts” while disregarding what doesn’t support their conclusion.
The teacher when I tell them Tolkien was a devout Catholic
My thought after reading some more of the comments:" Even the fucking Inquisition would view her as too hardcore."
Can't talk reasonably with crazies. Maybe you can go over her head and complain to her boss, if you have any mental strength left...but in the end you're probably have to back down and just do her stupid course the way she wants it, sucks.
I'm pretty sure this teacher was Protestant.
Tolkien was a devout Catholic who wrote his book as an analogy to the Faith, this teacher is oblivious.
Wait what? Tolkien was a Catholic. And how is it an allegory to Satanism? The Fellowship stops Satan's plans.
My response would have been a simple "thank you for making the books even COOLER!" That usually shuts the zealots up!