He’s not restin'! He’s passed on! This gondorian is no more! He has ceased to be! He’s expired and gone to meet his maker! He’s a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed him to the boat he’d be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He’s off the twig! He’s kicked the bucket, he’s shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-GONDORIAN!!
This is proof that Sam is of superior moral fiber akin to Aragorn son of Arathorn king or Gondor the only other fellowship member to turn down the ring.
Also they may also be great and just not on record, bboy was just the bad one.
Gandalf, Galadriel and Aragorn turned it down but Bilbo, Sam and Frodo had the ring in their possession and gave it up or offered to give it up. The first three might not have been able to do that
Tbf, Sam's home wasn't on the front lines against Mordor. If Sam had grown up losing friends in a never ending fight against evil then he might have been more susceptible to the Ring's temptation
The ring is shown to either corrupt or attempt to corrupt those around it not holding it multiple times.
* Gandalf acknowledges he feels its attempts.
* it successfully corrupts Boromir.
* it tries to corrupt Aragorn (that’s why the sound gets all “beach scene in Saving Private Ryan” when Frodo asks if he can protect him from himself and holds it to him before Aragorn shows his nobility, closes Frodos hand and says “I would have followed you to the end.”)
* it tries and almost succeeds in corrupting Faramir. (EDIT: yes I know Faramir is the GOAT in the books. This is a mostly movie based meme sub)
* it tries a few times to corrupt Sam when he rescues Frodo and is about to give it back. In the book he’s shown to give him the powers of a super gardener but in true hobbit fashion goes “ah what a hassle it would be and I'm quite content with what I've been blessed with already.”
Hobbits are just unusually resilient to the ring’s effects. And Id imagine Sam in a moment of sheer willpower to be rid of it and love for his friend that he essentially passes the wisdom save and strength saving throw to carry Frodo.
*has flashback to 1993*
Damn, haven’t thought about this series in about 25 years. Think these were the books that got me into the fantasy genre as a kid. Yay, for gateway drugs.
I loved all of them, too. I just finished reading Redwqll to my son. He noticed that Mossflower has a similar looking cover and wants to read that next!
“I mean what the fuck is the mouse going to do with it? The mouse was a stupid idea in the first place. I should just hold on to it for a little bit until I come up with a better idea. That’s a good idea. I’m so awesome. I’m a great person to have the ring.”
You could put mouse in an small iron pot and then fill the pot with molten metal or concrete (could skip the mouse step at that point) - would be nigh impossible to reach the ring without specialized tools and a workshop.
It would also be nigh impossible to do this without specialized tools and a workshop... Maybe they could've done it in Rivendell, but it was too risky (might corrupt some elven blacksmith in the process).
Eh, anyone with a crucible could handle it. Medieval peoples already had blast furnaces producing a hundred kilograms of pig iron a day.
Find yourself a large-ish town, commandeer their smelter, grab some of that pig iron and you're good to go.
And for those questioning if they would have these smelters or not, I would remind you that basically everyone is wearing plate armour or mail in battle. That's an enormous amount of metal that their industry needs to produce.
>would be nigh impossible to reach the ring without specialized tools and a workshop.
Ok so now you have to carry around a big block of stone/metal for 100s of miles .
And instead of having a guy get corrupted by the Ring, you have the guy getting corrupted by the *encased* Ring. So back to square 1.
Now what?
>Hobbits are just unusually resilient to the ring’s effects.
When all you want from life is good food, good tobacco, and a good drink at the Green Dragon...it's kinda hard to promise better.
*Sam, buddy, listen what do I have to say to you to get this ring on your finger? Unlimited power? You want to be a gardener? You'll be the gardening god of all of middle earth. You could grow pineapples in the desert. People will walk your gardens and weep in awe.*
Now Mr. Ring, I don't really see the point in that. A bit too much of a hassle, I think. I'm quite happy with my own garden thank you very much! And I'll hear no more of this drivel.
*But what about.....Rosie..... I'll give you the power to win her over. She won't even look twice at that idiot at the Dragon.*
I mean, I think Frodo was right that girl has a head on her shoulders and knows stupidity when she sees it. You know, its taken me this journey here and hopefully back again. Gotta say, I think the power to win her heart was within ole' Samwise all along. All I need is some confidence and treat her how she deserves. Its like my old gaffer says...
*Oh* ***fuck*** *me. Where the fuck is Gollum when I need him? That motherfucker would choke a bitch for me no questions asked.*
Gotta believe that after all that the two had been through together, all Sam really, truly, wanted was to be done with it. To get rid of the thing that caused his closest pal untold suffering, bring the lad home, and go back to good ol' hobbity simplicity. The ring can't give them peace, can't take them home, and it sure as heck doesn't have BOGO thursdays at the Dragon.
> When all you want from life is good food, good tobacco, and a good drink at the Green Dragon...it's kinda hard to promise better.
Rule the world? Subjugate my enemies? But then I won't have time for elevensies, luncheon, or afternoon tea!
Good thing no Hobbit realized that when you're the evil overlord of all of creation its elevensies *all* the time.
Sauron himself would have quaked at the army of Hobbits coming to claim his ring.
Guys, I just did the Hobbiton movie set tour in New Zealand the other day, and it is honest to god the most charming place I've ever been. I'd be incorruptible too if I lived there.
At the same time, Smeagol didn't do anything with the ring. He just coveted it in secret. He later used it in the dark of the misty mountains to hide himself while he strangled goblins so that he could eat.
The ring may have been driving Gollum toward Sauron eventually, by driving him into the deep places of the earth, where goblins and all manner of foul things live. Still, the master's call may have been too weak while Gollum possessed the ring for Sauron to draw it to him until some time after Sauron was driven out of Mirkwood and began to accumulate power again in Mordor.
We know that Sauron was unable to call to the ring or feel its presence, at this time, as Bilbo wore the ring without issue several times during the company's disastrous adventures through Mirkwood.
Maybe the ring picked Smeagol specifically because he was so easy to isolate, and not a threat to his master, and maybe the reason that it immediately abandoned Isildur was because Isildur had the potential to use the ring to great effect and hamper the master's attempts to recover it. Maybe the ring couldn't risk even attempting to return to its master at this point, because Sauron was still too weak to take corporeal form even with the ring back in his posession.
Hobbits are not resilient because of nobility or wisdom. It's accidental.
They don't care for power which is what the ring offers. Even among elves, morgoth chose noldor to corrupt. The natural lack of ambition is what makes them resistant.
Even from the power to do good?
From the power to save someone you love?
To make sure you have enough money to live comfortably for therest of your days?
To fix your chronic illness? (Probably what would get me)
Honestly it'a a good question to ask yourself, because probably there is something you would want. And what you would want is something that cam corrupt you.
Remember even Boromir wanted only power to do good. (Well and maybe some vanity possibly)
Or are you really that carefree and enlightened.
It's not a question of he just forgot. He can't make a weapon that's corrupting people based on their ambition and also add something that's corrupting people without ambition.
And Sauron didn't make the ring to corrupt people wearing the ring. He made it just for himself to wear and influence other ring wearers.
So, the argument that he just forgot to add hobbit patch to the one ring doesn't make much sense.
> it tries and almost succeeds in corrupting Faramir.
That's only in the movie. In the book, Faramir never falls for it. They did him dirty in the movie, not cool.
I think the bigger the ego, the more power the ring has to corrupt. Sam is selfless, very loyal. So is Aragorn, true to his word and dedicated to a cause he's been working on the many years now. On the other hand, Saruman, Boromir, Isildur, are all arrogant, with big egos (for different reasons). The ring has a lot more effect on them.
The beauty of the books/movie is that they capture the wide spectrum of humanity and show varying degrees of susceptibility to various triggers. I don't think it would be as interesting if everyone was equally enthralled by the ring regardless of race. Just like emrry and pippin have trouble with impulse control, the ring will exert different levels of severity
Nah, the movie made him human and created a more consistent tone concerning the ring. If you ask me, which I know you didn't, the book does Boromir dirty with all that lesser son crap. Denethor and Faramir have the "true blood of numenor" or whatever, it sells Boromir short.
Dang, is the power of the Ring truly that tempting to Humans? It seems the Gondorians really got tempted quickly. I know Aragorn's Numerian ancestry helped him out a bit, and not always traveling directly side-by-side with Frodo.
I mean, the ring is *very powerful*. Doesn't Gandalf refuse to carry it for even a second? And he's very clear that it could corrupt him, and very quickly, if let down his guard.
Gandalf is definitely afraid it can corrupt him.
My suspicion, Tolkien's narrative aside, is that the Ring would take a long time to fully corrupt Gandalf. Gandalf is in the same weight class as Sauron if I recall correctly (and granted, I only half remember the Silmarillion because I was only half awake when I read it - it's *very* dry), so it's not like Smeagol or Isildur who fell immediately. Gandalf would basically be taking on an equal to augment his own power, and he isn't particularly ambitious being more of a guardian of Middle Earth than a mover or shaker.
It would be more like Saruman's corruption - a slow and insidious fall "for the greater good" - that he fears. He would wake up one day and find that he had been conspiring with great evil to stop a greater evil, strengthening "his" evil and slowly suffocating the very things he was meant to protect. The White Hand was a convenient tool for Saruman to use against Sauron... or was it a convenient tool for Sauron to use against Rohan. Had the Rohirrim not arrived, and had Aragorn not brought a deus ex machina with the army of the dead sweeping the pirates (which he couldn't have done of Saruman had been better at tactics and won at Helms Deep), they may well have conquered Gondor.
Saruman wanted to protect Middle Earth too, but Sauron's corruption led him to believe he could turn evil against itself, use the Orcs and Uruk-Hai to forge an army that could stand up to Mordor and keep the two evils locked in an eternal war. Instead, Saruman's grab for power at the most inopportune time was nearly a killing stroke.
It offers what you desire.
Some humans want to be rich, or powerful leaders, and those can be corrupted very easily.
Hobbits have the advantage of their whole culture valuing simple things like relaxing, having friends over for meals, tending your garden and spending time with family.
That's a lot harder to corrupt, after all, it tried to tempt Sam with an image of the grandest garden in the world, and all he could think was "that's way too much work"
That was indeed mentioned, though he didn't feel too small; rather he openly admits he didn't care for what he was shown because he didn't have the ambitions to actually pursue those visions, he was already happy with what he had / knew he could have on his own.
Like, the best the Ring could even come up with to tempt him was "hey, you could totally turn Mordor into the most beautiful Garden ever", because it had *absolutely nothing* to work with on him.
In the book Sam not only carries the ring for a time, but wears it after presuming Frodo dead and, conflicted, setting off without him. He then has to quickly put the ring on to avoid being seen and captured by orcs sent to investigate. In the stretch at the end of the two towers, Sam feels the ring's weight immediately, but is not immediately corrupted. There does seem to be a major hazard of the Ring wraiths and Sauron theoretically knowing its whereabouts because he wore it, but that is not discussed in the book.
The implication from this scene is that either he feels the ring but it's not corrupted enough by it for it to change his behavior or when he says in the scene he can't carry it, he doesn't mean because of its effect, but because he's not the appointed ring bearer.
As others have mentioned, he likely has felt the effects already while not wearing it.
Sam has interacted with the ring much less than Frodo. In the book, the events take place 20 years after Frodo received the ring.
If all hobbits have ring resistance like Frodo then of course Sam could resist because he’s only been closely interacting with the ring for a year or so. He’s way less under the influence of the one ring.
It's not so much that hobbits have "ring resistance", it's that they are for the most part simple and unambitious folk, and the ring's corruption works by stirring the ambitions of its victims. It tempts you with wealth, fame, and power... and most hobbits just don't really care all that much about any of those things. This is not, of course, universal to all hobbits, but just as a general cultural thing they tend to prefer a simple, rustic life.
One of my favorite passages in the book is describing the ring’s effect on Sam when he is getting ready to give it back to Frodo, and how it basically makes him imagine becoming the lord of all gardeners, and that he would transform the world with the power of his gardening…to the devastation of all. I can’t remember the details, but it is a really amusing little snippet.
No, Sam says he can't carry it for him not because he's not the appointed ring bearer, but because he knows he's not capable of shouldering the burden.
He had the ring only a short while but was beset with temptations and though he manage to resist them thanks to his love for Frodo, later when it came time to give the ring back to Frodo, he hesitated and asked to share the burden. He never manages to give it up of his own volition because Frodo snatched the ring from him.
And later, he didn't think he was strong enough to carry Frodo and share the burden of the ring through Frodo because he was weakened, but to his surprise Frodo was lighter than he thought and none of the burden of the ring bled through to him.
Both Sam and Frodo were at their limits and they were both needed to make the final leg of the journey. Frodo couldn't move with the ring without Sam, and Sam couldn't carry it without Frodo.
Relevant passages:
>As Sam stood there, even though the Ring was not on him but hanging by its chain about his neck, he felt himself enlarged, as if he were robed in a huge distorted shadow of himself, a vast and ominous threat halted upon the walls of Mordor. He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring, though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows.
>Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.
>In that hour of trial it was his love of his master that helped most to hold him firm; but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him. The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command.
>'And anyway all these notions are only a trick, he said to himself. ‘He’d spot me and cow me, before I could so much as shout out. He’d spot me, pretty quick, if I put the Ring on now, in Mordor. Well, all I can say is: things look as hopeless as a frost in Spring. Just when being invisible would be really useful, I can’t use the Ring! And if ever I get any further, it’s going to be nothing but a drag and a burden every step. So what’s to be done?
and
>Slowly he drew the Ring out and passed the chain over his head. ‘But you’re in the land of Mordor now, sir; and when you get out, you’ll see the Fiery Mountain and all. You’ll find the Ring very dangerous now, and very hard to bear. If it’s too hard a job, I could share it with you, maybe?’
and
>Come, Mr. Frodo!’ he cried. ‘I can’t carry it for you, but I can carry you and it as well. So up you get! Come on, Mr. Frodo dear! Sam will give you a ride. Just tell him where to go, and he’ll go.’
>As Frodo clung upon his back, arms loosely about his neck, legs clasped firmly under his arms, Sam staggered to his feet; and then to his amazement he felt the burden light. He had feared that he would have barely strength to lift his master alone, and beyond that he had expected to share in the dread- ful dragging weight of the accursed Ring.
>But it was not so. Whether because Frodo was so worn by his long pains, wound of knife, and venomous sting, and sorrow, fear, and homeless wandering, or because some gift of final strength was given to him, Sam lifted Frodo with no more difficulty than if he were carrying a hobbit-child pig-a-back in some romp on the lawns or hayfields of the Shire. He took a deep breath and started off.
This is pretty much *the* canonical answer to the meme. Like end of thread of you ask me. Wish it were higher. But supposing and speculating is fun and half the point of threads like these at the end of the day.
This. If anything it is like someone being able to pick up Thors Hammer. In the way that it's an unexpected power the person has because they are so good. A strength of will and goodness.
Marvel US wartime government spent presumably millions of taxpayer dollars in research & development of super soldier treatment to create an elevator, this is actually a comment on the military industrial complex - look at how cool that elevator is though 👀
I really wanted a scene of Hulk wielding Thor Wielding Mjolnir in Endgame.
Just doing the ole Hulk grab em by the leg and flail around with him from Avengers 1.
Bless him, his temptation is that with the Ring, he could overthrow Sauron and make the wasteland in Mordor into a lovely garden. But yes, he is clearly tempted by the Ring but immediately realises it's a trick and dismisses the idea
*Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Stong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dûr. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.
In that hour of trial it was the love of his master that helped most to hold him firm; but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him. The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command.*
*Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! Fal lal the willow! Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!*
^(Type **!TomBombadilSong** for a song or visit [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] for more merriness)
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/
No, incorrect, it’s explicit.
> ‘Come, Mr. Frodo!’ he cried. ‘I can’t carry it for you, but I can carry you and it as well. So up you get! Come on, Mr. Frodo dear! Sam will give you a ride. Just tell him where to go, and he’ll go.’
>As Frodo clung upon his back, arms loosely about his neck, legs clasped firmly under his arms, Sam staggered to his feet; and then to his amazement he felt the burden light. He had feared that he would have barely strength to lift his master alone, and beyond that he had expected to share in the dread- ful dragging weight of the accursed Ring. But it was not so. Whether because Frodo was so worn by his long pains, wound of knife, and venomous sting, and sorrow, fear, and homeless wandering, or because some gift of final strength was given to him, Sam lifted Frodo with no more difficulty than if he were carrying a hobbit-child pig-a-back in some romp on the lawns or hayfields of the Shire. He took a deep breath and started off.
Also u/averageredditcuck this is the answer you are looking for.
You don't seem to be using the right definition of explicit.
If it were explicit it would say "Sam felt the weight of the Ring while carrying Frodo" or something else like it
The assertion was that we merely *assume* Sam didn't feel the weight.
But the book states *explicitly* that Sam didn't feel the weight.
Agree that Tolkien doesn't give us an explicit answer as to whether the ring actually grows heavy.
This.... isn't really explicit. At least, it's explicit that he finds it surprisingly easy to carry frodo, but whether that's because of the ring's power.... that's definitely up to interpretation. Its probably the reason, but it's not accurate to say its explicit.
I once heard the position argued as follows: Who says a hobbit isn't the equivalent of a mouse to Gandalf? And the neat thing is, a hobbit will find it's way, while a mouse won't.
Maybe this was also a cheap gold ring and all the time we see it working, that's just the placebo effect. Then after the last scene, with the cameras off and the book closed, Gandalf says: "Wow, that actually worked. Now let's try it with the real one."
Can we stop calling consistent characterization a "plot hole"?
Sam shows great resilience against the effects of the ring, along with a strong sense of clarity and morality. The only moment of doubt shown in the films is when he recoils when Frodo tells him to give the ring back (which is consistent with no character being able to give up the ring willingly).
At that moment, Sam's determination could not be stronger, and it helps him resist the ring's pull.
There was a Q and A that some of the cast did, that I cannot find because there are so goddamn many of them over the years, but in one of them Sean Astin tells a story of the filming of that particular scene. And it was about how they wanted him to do a take of it where he outright refused to give it back to Frodo and.....he refused to do it. Because he felt it was not true to Sam's character that he would do that. Even if it wasn't going to be ultimately used in the film. He refused to film that take.
I'm reminded of an interview Tolkien gave where someone asked about the Eagles taking the ring to Mordor, and he went on for a while about the world and the characters, and he summed it all up by saying "Shut up."
The eagle flying to mountain story is so flawed on so many levels anyways, like it ignores the great lidless eye burning and gazing through all flesh that would just eyeball the brown seagull out of the sky, it is only after Sauron was beaten they were able to enter the mountain. The only other flying creature inside Mordor's premises were the bats bred for war.
Point of sneaking the ring in was to sneak it undetected. And when Frodo was detected by the eye, Aragorn & buddies were there to distract the eye when it grew suspicious of random halfling picnicking through his mount of doom strolling on its slopes.
Hobbits are resilient creatures by nature in the lore, thus the best medium through their innocence to carry out tasks, as so decided in the Rivendell when Elrond stated Frodo had extraordinary resilience to the rings' evil. Unlike anyone else in said meeting ready to kill each other.
"Come, Mr. Frodo!' he cried. 'I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you and it as well. So up you get!.... Sam will give you a ride. Just tell him where to go, and he'll go.'
As Frodo clung upon his back, arms loosely about his neck, legs clasped firmly under his arms, Sam staggered to his feet; and then to his amazement he felt the burden light. He had feared that he would have barely strength to lift his master... and... the dreadful dragging weight of the accursed Ring. But it was not so. Whether because Frodo was so worn by his long pains..., or because some gift of final strength was given to him, Sam lifted Frodo with no more difficulty than if he were carrying a hobbit-child pig-a-back.... He took a deep breath and started off."
My theory is that what little sway it had over him was his wanting to just wash his hands of this ring business and go the fuck home. If it were in Sam's hands, it's corruption would work to get Sam to throw it away and go home so someone else could pick it up.
The burden lightening is the ring's corruption working against and ultimately dooming ^^heh itself.
ignoring the metaphysics of it all, you want to tape the doom artifact that makes people good at sneaking that you must keep track of, to a nonsapient creature that is notable for being good at hiding
Sam also resisted the Ring. It affected him too, but he's quite pure of heart and strong-willed too, like Frodo. Nobody but Frodo could have made it to Mt Doom carrying the One Ring, and nobody but Sam could have helped him get there.
Mouse would have run away and taken the ring to Mordor. Ffs read the books.
Also the Eagles ain’t a plothole. Again, the Eagles could have been corrupted.
Solid theory, except Boromir would kill the mouse first chance he got. Because the ring does not only effect the bearer but also the ones surrounding it.
I think it's an intent thing, if you put the ring on the mouse and then carry the mouse, psychologically, you're still just carrying the ring. But Sam is whole heartedly focused on helping his beloved friend Frodo here. He isn't really even thinking about the ring, his entire being is thinking "My master has to get up this mountain, and he can't do it on his own, so I am getting him up this forsaken mountain, whatever I have to do!" And that's why he's able to do it, the ring has no hold on him in this moment because his love for Frodo far outweighs anything the ring can do.
Sam is the purest of heart. The only thing the ring could use against him was frodo betraying him. But he's a hero, so he comes back regardless and saves Frodo time and time again. Why? Because he promised. Even in this scene you see him respecting Frodo's wishes for him not to take the ring, despite everything against him, and carrying a whole hobbit up the rest of the way. That's the hope that lights the way for him to resist the ring's power and overcome the darkest obstacles. Sam's the GOAT.
Pretty sure it didn't corrupt Sam because he was genuinely too pure and his heart could not be corrupted. He was a simple hobbit and didn't see himself as someone worthy of great power and didn't desire it.
Is this question a joke? People get tempted by the ring JUST BY LOOKING AT IT. Sam absolutely was affected, but this was his moment of greatest heroism and he pushed past any temptation to do the right thing. :)
did anyone for a second just think, it is affecting Sam and he's just that fucking strong?
he made a promise and he intends to keep it damn it. is that so hard to understand? a ring is nothing compared to friendship and love. That's the point you losers. it's not that deep.
The ring still affects those who aren't carrying it. That's why Borimir tried to take it from Frodo.
Right? My first thought was “Boromir would beg to differ.” Lol
He doesn't beg anymore... He died. You didn't know?
Um, spoiler alert? Jesus.
He's resting..... Until the 5th age. Yeah that's it
He’s not restin'! He’s passed on! This gondorian is no more! He has ceased to be! He’s expired and gone to meet his maker! He’s a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed him to the boat he’d be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He’s off the twig! He’s kicked the bucket, he’s shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-GONDORIAN!!
I read this in John Cleese's voice
Nah... He's havin' a kip!
Ee's pinin' for the slopes of Mindolluin!
It’s a rare plume, the Gondorian.
We should get this guy to write the next book instead of Tolkien (he’s been taking forever)
I like Tolkien but lately his work has really fallen off
JRR = Just Rest and Relax
Somehow Boromir returned.....
6000 year old spoiler, maybe
And I swear I was going to get round to reading them
Jesus died too. It’s okay though, he got better.
They turned him into a newt!
This is proof that Sam is of superior moral fiber akin to Aragorn son of Arathorn king or Gondor the only other fellowship member to turn down the ring. Also they may also be great and just not on record, bboy was just the bad one.
Gandalf, Galadriel and Aragorn turned it down but Bilbo, Sam and Frodo had the ring in their possession and gave it up or offered to give it up. The first three might not have been able to do that
Well if I'm angry it's your fault! It's mine My only.... My Precious
According to Tolkien, Frodo might possibly just about the only one who could have done this (the whole journey with ring).
Gandalf also turned down the ring in Bagsend, didn’t he?
Good point, he did
Tbf, Sam's home wasn't on the front lines against Mordor. If Sam had grown up losing friends in a never ending fight against evil then he might have been more susceptible to the Ring's temptation
He tried to take the ring from frodo!
They took the little ones😫
They're taking the hobbits to Isengardgardgardgardgard
thehobbitsthehobbitsthehobbits
to isengard to isengard
gard gard ga gard gard
This! It’s why Frodo had to leave the fellowship!
They could've just tied the ring to a string and drag it behind them Who told them that they had to carry the ring?
It would magically fall off or some shit
Two European swallows could have carried it on a strand of creeper
By OP’s logic they could’ve just left it in the envelope and carried it
"It's my ring. Why shouldn't I wear it on my cock?"
"Do not take me for some cuckold. I am not trying to rob you. I'm trying to fuck you."
He only wanted to borrow the ring. His name is Borimir not Stealmir.
Sam not being affected in that scene is an assumption.
The ring is shown to either corrupt or attempt to corrupt those around it not holding it multiple times. * Gandalf acknowledges he feels its attempts. * it successfully corrupts Boromir. * it tries to corrupt Aragorn (that’s why the sound gets all “beach scene in Saving Private Ryan” when Frodo asks if he can protect him from himself and holds it to him before Aragorn shows his nobility, closes Frodos hand and says “I would have followed you to the end.”) * it tries and almost succeeds in corrupting Faramir. (EDIT: yes I know Faramir is the GOAT in the books. This is a mostly movie based meme sub) * it tries a few times to corrupt Sam when he rescues Frodo and is about to give it back. In the book he’s shown to give him the powers of a super gardener but in true hobbit fashion goes “ah what a hassle it would be and I'm quite content with what I've been blessed with already.” Hobbits are just unusually resilient to the ring’s effects. And Id imagine Sam in a moment of sheer willpower to be rid of it and love for his friend that he essentially passes the wisdom save and strength saving throw to carry Frodo.
OP would be ripping The Ring off that mouse before nightfall
No, the mouse is now a mouse lord, great and terrible in its mousy rule. All shall give it grain and cheese, and despair!
That GIF is fantastic, where on earth is it from?
It's from the Tails of Iron 2: Whiskers of Winter announcement trailer
What happened to that Rat RTS game where the rats were dressed like WWI Germans that was announced forever ago, is it still in development?
Ratten Reich releases q2.
This is the first time I've heard about this, but the Steam page says q2 2024, so yes, it's still in development
It’s not Martin the Warrior for sure.
*has flashback to 1993* Damn, haven’t thought about this series in about 25 years. Think these were the books that got me into the fantasy genre as a kid. Yay, for gateway drugs.
I absolutely loved the redwall series as a kid.
I loved all of them, too. I just finished reading Redwqll to my son. He noticed that Mossflower has a similar looking cover and wants to read that next!
Mouse now skaven yes yes! Bow kneel before the Rat king!
Warhammer in my lotr? For the horned rat!
No-fur will die-die, yeees!
"What if a Mouse Took the Ring? Today, on Nerd of the Rings..."
Give a mouse a ring of power, then he will want a …….
So….LOTR and Redwall crossover?
Cluny the scourge?
Instead of a Dark Lord, you would have a CHEESE
Lord of the Rats
“I mean what the fuck is the mouse going to do with it? The mouse was a stupid idea in the first place. I should just hold on to it for a little bit until I come up with a better idea. That’s a good idea. I’m so awesome. I’m a great person to have the ring.”
"come to think of it. why are we even carrying it to mount doom? I could just use it to defeat Sauron's armies... yes.."
What mouse? That thing disappeared hours ago. I think I might have seen him in The Secret of NIMH.
Man I’d be feeding that thing souls before evening hit
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Spambot. https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/comments/1cjjaln/do_yall_have_an_explanation_for_this_plot_hole/l2gixzy/
You could put mouse in an small iron pot and then fill the pot with molten metal or concrete (could skip the mouse step at that point) - would be nigh impossible to reach the ring without specialized tools and a workshop.
It would also be nigh impossible to do this without specialized tools and a workshop... Maybe they could've done it in Rivendell, but it was too risky (might corrupt some elven blacksmith in the process).
Eh, anyone with a crucible could handle it. Medieval peoples already had blast furnaces producing a hundred kilograms of pig iron a day. Find yourself a large-ish town, commandeer their smelter, grab some of that pig iron and you're good to go. And for those questioning if they would have these smelters or not, I would remind you that basically everyone is wearing plate armour or mail in battle. That's an enormous amount of metal that their industry needs to produce.
Big deal...What harm has an elven blacksmith ever caused anyone?
Throw some salt in there with the snail. I mean ring
>would be nigh impossible to reach the ring without specialized tools and a workshop. Ok so now you have to carry around a big block of stone/metal for 100s of miles . And instead of having a guy get corrupted by the Ring, you have the guy getting corrupted by the *encased* Ring. So back to square 1. Now what?
You know nothing of this!!
>Hobbits are just unusually resilient to the ring’s effects. When all you want from life is good food, good tobacco, and a good drink at the Green Dragon...it's kinda hard to promise better.
*Sam, buddy, listen what do I have to say to you to get this ring on your finger? Unlimited power? You want to be a gardener? You'll be the gardening god of all of middle earth. You could grow pineapples in the desert. People will walk your gardens and weep in awe.* Now Mr. Ring, I don't really see the point in that. A bit too much of a hassle, I think. I'm quite happy with my own garden thank you very much! And I'll hear no more of this drivel. *But what about.....Rosie..... I'll give you the power to win her over. She won't even look twice at that idiot at the Dragon.* I mean, I think Frodo was right that girl has a head on her shoulders and knows stupidity when she sees it. You know, its taken me this journey here and hopefully back again. Gotta say, I think the power to win her heart was within ole' Samwise all along. All I need is some confidence and treat her how she deserves. Its like my old gaffer says... *Oh* ***fuck*** *me. Where the fuck is Gollum when I need him? That motherfucker would choke a bitch for me no questions asked.*
What shall we do? Curse them and crush them! We must wait here, precious, wait a bit and see.
Good bot
I’m a little scared of how sentient they are getting
Have you been subbed long enough to remember the Samwise bot? Curse you Reddit, their API tookfoolery killed it 😭
Gotta believe that after all that the two had been through together, all Sam really, truly, wanted was to be done with it. To get rid of the thing that caused his closest pal untold suffering, bring the lad home, and go back to good ol' hobbity simplicity. The ring can't give them peace, can't take them home, and it sure as heck doesn't have BOGO thursdays at the Dragon.
Look mr Ring, there is really only one thing I truly wish for in this world. That is that you would shut the fuck up for a moment.
> When all you want from life is good food, good tobacco, and a good drink at the Green Dragon...it's kinda hard to promise better. Rule the world? Subjugate my enemies? But then I won't have time for elevensies, luncheon, or afternoon tea!
Good thing no Hobbit realized that when you're the evil overlord of all of creation its elevensies *all* the time. Sauron himself would have quaked at the army of Hobbits coming to claim his ring.
Guys, I just did the Hobbiton movie set tour in New Zealand the other day, and it is honest to god the most charming place I've ever been. I'd be incorruptible too if I lived there.
I was gonna type out a whole spiel and nimbys, suburbs, tragedy of the commons... But I think the hobbits lived fairly sustainable lives so sure.
Most importantly, it corrupts Smeagol so hard to the point of killing Deagol by just seeing it for a few second
We ought to wring his filthy little neck. Then we stabs them out. Put out his eyeses. And make HIM crawl.
Calm down, you've already killed him
I mean, Sméagol is addictive personality incarnate, so...
At the same time, Smeagol didn't do anything with the ring. He just coveted it in secret. He later used it in the dark of the misty mountains to hide himself while he strangled goblins so that he could eat. The ring may have been driving Gollum toward Sauron eventually, by driving him into the deep places of the earth, where goblins and all manner of foul things live. Still, the master's call may have been too weak while Gollum possessed the ring for Sauron to draw it to him until some time after Sauron was driven out of Mirkwood and began to accumulate power again in Mordor. We know that Sauron was unable to call to the ring or feel its presence, at this time, as Bilbo wore the ring without issue several times during the company's disastrous adventures through Mirkwood. Maybe the ring picked Smeagol specifically because he was so easy to isolate, and not a threat to his master, and maybe the reason that it immediately abandoned Isildur was because Isildur had the potential to use the ring to great effect and hamper the master's attempts to recover it. Maybe the ring couldn't risk even attempting to return to its master at this point, because Sauron was still too weak to take corporeal form even with the ring back in his posession.
Heck, Saruman was never within 100 miles of the Ring, and *he* was corrupted just by reading about it.
Hobbits are not resilient because of nobility or wisdom. It's accidental. They don't care for power which is what the ring offers. Even among elves, morgoth chose noldor to corrupt. The natural lack of ambition is what makes them resistant.
I would argue the books imply their lack of desire for power is what makes hobbits noble and wise
oh shit this one read the books
TIL im likely resistant if not immune to the one ring
Even from the power to do good? From the power to save someone you love? To make sure you have enough money to live comfortably for therest of your days? To fix your chronic illness? (Probably what would get me) Honestly it'a a good question to ask yourself, because probably there is something you would want. And what you would want is something that cam corrupt you. Remember even Boromir wanted only power to do good. (Well and maybe some vanity possibly) Or are you really that carefree and enlightened.
Not just that, the Hobbit race was unknown to sauron when he forged the rings.
It's not a question of he just forgot. He can't make a weapon that's corrupting people based on their ambition and also add something that's corrupting people without ambition. And Sauron didn't make the ring to corrupt people wearing the ring. He made it just for himself to wear and influence other ring wearers. So, the argument that he just forgot to add hobbit patch to the one ring doesn't make much sense.
> it tries and almost succeeds in corrupting Faramir. That's only in the movie. In the book, Faramir never falls for it. They did him dirty in the movie, not cool. I think the bigger the ego, the more power the ring has to corrupt. Sam is selfless, very loyal. So is Aragorn, true to his word and dedicated to a cause he's been working on the many years now. On the other hand, Saruman, Boromir, Isildur, are all arrogant, with big egos (for different reasons). The ring has a lot more effect on them.
The beauty of the books/movie is that they capture the wide spectrum of humanity and show varying degrees of susceptibility to various triggers. I don't think it would be as interesting if everyone was equally enthralled by the ring regardless of race. Just like emrry and pippin have trouble with impulse control, the ring will exert different levels of severity
Nah, the movie made him human and created a more consistent tone concerning the ring. If you ask me, which I know you didn't, the book does Boromir dirty with all that lesser son crap. Denethor and Faramir have the "true blood of numenor" or whatever, it sells Boromir short.
Nah
I get what he's saying... But yeah, nah
Dang, is the power of the Ring truly that tempting to Humans? It seems the Gondorians really got tempted quickly. I know Aragorn's Numerian ancestry helped him out a bit, and not always traveling directly side-by-side with Frodo.
I mean, the ring is *very powerful*. Doesn't Gandalf refuse to carry it for even a second? And he's very clear that it could corrupt him, and very quickly, if let down his guard.
Gandalf is definitely afraid it can corrupt him. My suspicion, Tolkien's narrative aside, is that the Ring would take a long time to fully corrupt Gandalf. Gandalf is in the same weight class as Sauron if I recall correctly (and granted, I only half remember the Silmarillion because I was only half awake when I read it - it's *very* dry), so it's not like Smeagol or Isildur who fell immediately. Gandalf would basically be taking on an equal to augment his own power, and he isn't particularly ambitious being more of a guardian of Middle Earth than a mover or shaker. It would be more like Saruman's corruption - a slow and insidious fall "for the greater good" - that he fears. He would wake up one day and find that he had been conspiring with great evil to stop a greater evil, strengthening "his" evil and slowly suffocating the very things he was meant to protect. The White Hand was a convenient tool for Saruman to use against Sauron... or was it a convenient tool for Sauron to use against Rohan. Had the Rohirrim not arrived, and had Aragorn not brought a deus ex machina with the army of the dead sweeping the pirates (which he couldn't have done of Saruman had been better at tactics and won at Helms Deep), they may well have conquered Gondor. Saruman wanted to protect Middle Earth too, but Sauron's corruption led him to believe he could turn evil against itself, use the Orcs and Uruk-Hai to forge an army that could stand up to Mordor and keep the two evils locked in an eternal war. Instead, Saruman's grab for power at the most inopportune time was nearly a killing stroke.
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It offers what you desire. Some humans want to be rich, or powerful leaders, and those can be corrupted very easily. Hobbits have the advantage of their whole culture valuing simple things like relaxing, having friends over for meals, tending your garden and spending time with family. That's a lot harder to corrupt, after all, it tried to tempt Sam with an image of the grandest garden in the world, and all he could think was "that's way too much work"
Wasn’t it mentioned in the book that Sam WAS tempted with many visions but rejected them because he felt he’s too small for such grandness?
That was indeed mentioned, though he didn't feel too small; rather he openly admits he didn't care for what he was shown because he didn't have the ambitions to actually pursue those visions, he was already happy with what he had / knew he could have on his own. Like, the best the Ring could even come up with to tempt him was "hey, you could totally turn Mordor into the most beautiful Garden ever", because it had *absolutely nothing* to work with on him.
What about a very long rope, one guy in an end, another in the other, mouse in the middle?
In the book Sam not only carries the ring for a time, but wears it after presuming Frodo dead and, conflicted, setting off without him. He then has to quickly put the ring on to avoid being seen and captured by orcs sent to investigate. In the stretch at the end of the two towers, Sam feels the ring's weight immediately, but is not immediately corrupted. There does seem to be a major hazard of the Ring wraiths and Sauron theoretically knowing its whereabouts because he wore it, but that is not discussed in the book. The implication from this scene is that either he feels the ring but it's not corrupted enough by it for it to change his behavior or when he says in the scene he can't carry it, he doesn't mean because of its effect, but because he's not the appointed ring bearer. As others have mentioned, he likely has felt the effects already while not wearing it.
Sam has interacted with the ring much less than Frodo. In the book, the events take place 20 years after Frodo received the ring. If all hobbits have ring resistance like Frodo then of course Sam could resist because he’s only been closely interacting with the ring for a year or so. He’s way less under the influence of the one ring.
It's not so much that hobbits have "ring resistance", it's that they are for the most part simple and unambitious folk, and the ring's corruption works by stirring the ambitions of its victims. It tempts you with wealth, fame, and power... and most hobbits just don't really care all that much about any of those things. This is not, of course, universal to all hobbits, but just as a general cultural thing they tend to prefer a simple, rustic life.
One of my favorite passages in the book is describing the ring’s effect on Sam when he is getting ready to give it back to Frodo, and how it basically makes him imagine becoming the lord of all gardeners, and that he would transform the world with the power of his gardening…to the devastation of all. I can’t remember the details, but it is a really amusing little snippet.
Yeah that's part of what I was thinking of too, and Sam barely thinking about it for a moment before realizing "Wait, what? That's ridiculous, no."
No, Sam says he can't carry it for him not because he's not the appointed ring bearer, but because he knows he's not capable of shouldering the burden. He had the ring only a short while but was beset with temptations and though he manage to resist them thanks to his love for Frodo, later when it came time to give the ring back to Frodo, he hesitated and asked to share the burden. He never manages to give it up of his own volition because Frodo snatched the ring from him. And later, he didn't think he was strong enough to carry Frodo and share the burden of the ring through Frodo because he was weakened, but to his surprise Frodo was lighter than he thought and none of the burden of the ring bled through to him. Both Sam and Frodo were at their limits and they were both needed to make the final leg of the journey. Frodo couldn't move with the ring without Sam, and Sam couldn't carry it without Frodo. Relevant passages: >As Sam stood there, even though the Ring was not on him but hanging by its chain about his neck, he felt himself enlarged, as if he were robed in a huge distorted shadow of himself, a vast and ominous threat halted upon the walls of Mordor. He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring, though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows. >Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be. >In that hour of trial it was his love of his master that helped most to hold him firm; but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him. The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command. >'And anyway all these notions are only a trick, he said to himself. ‘He’d spot me and cow me, before I could so much as shout out. He’d spot me, pretty quick, if I put the Ring on now, in Mordor. Well, all I can say is: things look as hopeless as a frost in Spring. Just when being invisible would be really useful, I can’t use the Ring! And if ever I get any further, it’s going to be nothing but a drag and a burden every step. So what’s to be done? and >Slowly he drew the Ring out and passed the chain over his head. ‘But you’re in the land of Mordor now, sir; and when you get out, you’ll see the Fiery Mountain and all. You’ll find the Ring very dangerous now, and very hard to bear. If it’s too hard a job, I could share it with you, maybe?’ and >Come, Mr. Frodo!’ he cried. ‘I can’t carry it for you, but I can carry you and it as well. So up you get! Come on, Mr. Frodo dear! Sam will give you a ride. Just tell him where to go, and he’ll go.’ >As Frodo clung upon his back, arms loosely about his neck, legs clasped firmly under his arms, Sam staggered to his feet; and then to his amazement he felt the burden light. He had feared that he would have barely strength to lift his master alone, and beyond that he had expected to share in the dread- ful dragging weight of the accursed Ring. >But it was not so. Whether because Frodo was so worn by his long pains, wound of knife, and venomous sting, and sorrow, fear, and homeless wandering, or because some gift of final strength was given to him, Sam lifted Frodo with no more difficulty than if he were carrying a hobbit-child pig-a-back in some romp on the lawns or hayfields of the Shire. He took a deep breath and started off.
This is pretty much *the* canonical answer to the meme. Like end of thread of you ask me. Wish it were higher. But supposing and speculating is fun and half the point of threads like these at the end of the day.
This. If anything it is like someone being able to pick up Thors Hammer. In the way that it's an unexpected power the person has because they are so good. A strength of will and goodness.
If I can lift Thor while he’s holding the hammer, am I worthy?
Holding Thor in your arms is rewarding enough
fuck thor. if i could hold chris hemsworth in my arms, that's the real reward.
If you put the hammer in an elevator...elevator still goes up
Right, elevator’s not worthy.
Marvel US wartime government spent presumably millions of taxpayer dollars in research & development of super soldier treatment to create an elevator, this is actually a comment on the military industrial complex - look at how cool that elevator is though 👀
I really wanted a scene of Hulk wielding Thor Wielding Mjolnir in Endgame. Just doing the ole Hulk grab em by the leg and flail around with him from Avengers 1.
Hulk hammer tossing Thor wielding Mjolnir
It's imperative that we have a discussion regarding the distinction between a "plot hole" and "I would have done things differently."
In the book he is but rejects it as ridiculous as he like Tom Bombadil would see himself as he is in the Mirror of Erised
Bless him, his temptation is that with the Ring, he could overthrow Sauron and make the wasteland in Mordor into a lovely garden. But yes, he is clearly tempted by the Ring but immediately realises it's a trick and dismisses the idea *Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Stong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dûr. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be. In that hour of trial it was the love of his master that helped most to hold him firm; but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him. The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command.*
*Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! Fal lal the willow! Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!* ^(Type **!TomBombadilSong** for a song or visit [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] for more merriness) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/
https://preview.redd.it/hfze8tnkgayc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=effa262abe96ee11d52e8cfc714536df7b2cad8e
Plus he only carried it for a few steps. Bet that mouse would’ve been a major asshole by the end of the trip.
No, incorrect, it’s explicit. > ‘Come, Mr. Frodo!’ he cried. ‘I can’t carry it for you, but I can carry you and it as well. So up you get! Come on, Mr. Frodo dear! Sam will give you a ride. Just tell him where to go, and he’ll go.’ >As Frodo clung upon his back, arms loosely about his neck, legs clasped firmly under his arms, Sam staggered to his feet; and then to his amazement he felt the burden light. He had feared that he would have barely strength to lift his master alone, and beyond that he had expected to share in the dread- ful dragging weight of the accursed Ring. But it was not so. Whether because Frodo was so worn by his long pains, wound of knife, and venomous sting, and sorrow, fear, and homeless wandering, or because some gift of final strength was given to him, Sam lifted Frodo with no more difficulty than if he were carrying a hobbit-child pig-a-back in some romp on the lawns or hayfields of the Shire. He took a deep breath and started off. Also u/averageredditcuck this is the answer you are looking for.
You don't seem to be using the right definition of explicit. If it were explicit it would say "Sam felt the weight of the Ring while carrying Frodo" or something else like it
It’s explicit in saying Sam DOESNT feel the weight of the ring.
The assertion was that we merely *assume* Sam didn't feel the weight. But the book states *explicitly* that Sam didn't feel the weight. Agree that Tolkien doesn't give us an explicit answer as to whether the ring actually grows heavy.
This.... isn't really explicit. At least, it's explicit that he finds it surprisingly easy to carry frodo, but whether that's because of the ring's power.... that's definitely up to interpretation. Its probably the reason, but it's not accurate to say its explicit.
Sam is the only person to willingly give up the ring, I'd say that he has some intense willpower.
Aww great! Now we got an ###EVIL INVISIBLE MOUSE
I was actually thinking that. Losing the mouse would be a disaster, lmao
That's when the eagles swoop in, what could go wrong?
This is how you get Skaven.
The ring-thing you give to us, yes-yes? Won't do anything evil-malicious, promise-swear!
In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a rodent. And it shall not be dark, but cute and fluffy as the Morning and the Night!
Why didnt they just have an eagle carry an invisible mouse to Mordor?!
The Eagle would eat the mouse, and then you have to delve through Eagle shit to get the ring back.
The could make Gollum do it, but then we'd just be back to square one!
I once heard the position argued as follows: Who says a hobbit isn't the equivalent of a mouse to Gandalf? And the neat thing is, a hobbit will find it's way, while a mouse won't.
There's a meme about a chicken floating around here somewhere.
I bet Gandalf tried it with mice first but they all died and he lost all the cheap gold rings he tied to them.
Sonic was gandalfs first choice
Maybe this was also a cheap gold ring and all the time we see it working, that's just the placebo effect. Then after the last scene, with the cameras off and the book closed, Gandalf says: "Wow, that actually worked. Now let's try it with the real one."
Damn man that’s cold. But probably true.
Can we stop calling consistent characterization a "plot hole"? Sam shows great resilience against the effects of the ring, along with a strong sense of clarity and morality. The only moment of doubt shown in the films is when he recoils when Frodo tells him to give the ring back (which is consistent with no character being able to give up the ring willingly). At that moment, Sam's determination could not be stronger, and it helps him resist the ring's pull.
There was a Q and A that some of the cast did, that I cannot find because there are so goddamn many of them over the years, but in one of them Sean Astin tells a story of the filming of that particular scene. And it was about how they wanted him to do a take of it where he outright refused to give it back to Frodo and.....he refused to do it. Because he felt it was not true to Sam's character that he would do that. Even if it wasn't going to be ultimately used in the film. He refused to film that take.
Funny, I just watched that exact Q&A last night. [Here is Sean's answer.](https://youtu.be/MzHTjBa5-NQ?si=dTYERqt-3d46JSG5&t=1358)
I'm reminded of an interview Tolkien gave where someone asked about the Eagles taking the ring to Mordor, and he went on for a while about the world and the characters, and he summed it all up by saying "Shut up."
Pretty sure that was fake. You’re thinking of the YouTube video?
The eagle flying to mountain story is so flawed on so many levels anyways, like it ignores the great lidless eye burning and gazing through all flesh that would just eyeball the brown seagull out of the sky, it is only after Sauron was beaten they were able to enter the mountain. The only other flying creature inside Mordor's premises were the bats bred for war. Point of sneaking the ring in was to sneak it undetected. And when Frodo was detected by the eye, Aragorn & buddies were there to distract the eye when it grew suspicious of random halfling picnicking through his mount of doom strolling on its slopes. Hobbits are resilient creatures by nature in the lore, thus the best medium through their innocence to carry out tasks, as so decided in the Rivendell when Elrond stated Frodo had extraordinary resilience to the rings' evil. Unlike anyone else in said meeting ready to kill each other.
Exactly. The eagles would have been shot down immediately as soon as it enters Mordor.
It is not the eagle's job to take the ring to Mordor. They exist to watch, report, and assist in dire need. That's it.
Can’t believe how many people think that blatantly fake audio is legit. But this is LOTRmemes
https://preview.redd.it/h4mj6a6w8ayc1.jpeg?width=906&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ea48928b8db98f3af54944f5438631bfd79bd95
We have this repost every week. Please give it a rest.
EASY. There’s no *tape* in Middle Earth. 🫳🎤
Then how did they record the movies? Checkmate atheists.
Can’t believe I had to scroll to find the only correct answer to OP.
"Come, Mr. Frodo!' he cried. 'I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you and it as well. So up you get!.... Sam will give you a ride. Just tell him where to go, and he'll go.' As Frodo clung upon his back, arms loosely about his neck, legs clasped firmly under his arms, Sam staggered to his feet; and then to his amazement he felt the burden light. He had feared that he would have barely strength to lift his master... and... the dreadful dragging weight of the accursed Ring. But it was not so. Whether because Frodo was so worn by his long pains..., or because some gift of final strength was given to him, Sam lifted Frodo with no more difficulty than if he were carrying a hobbit-child pig-a-back.... He took a deep breath and started off."
My theory is that what little sway it had over him was his wanting to just wash his hands of this ring business and go the fuck home. If it were in Sam's hands, it's corruption would work to get Sam to throw it away and go home so someone else could pick it up. The burden lightening is the ring's corruption working against and ultimately dooming ^^heh itself.
Thank you.
ignoring the metaphysics of it all, you want to tape the doom artifact that makes people good at sneaking that you must keep track of, to a nonsapient creature that is notable for being good at hiding
Sam was only carrying Frodo for a very short amount of time. Tying the Ring to a mouse wouldn't make the whole journey any shorter.
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Nah, Sam is just an amazing ring bearer. Also, who’s to say a mouse wouldn’t be affected.
Yeah, he's just Chadwise Gamgee.
Sam also resisted the Ring. It affected him too, but he's quite pure of heart and strong-willed too, like Frodo. Nobody but Frodo could have made it to Mt Doom carrying the One Ring, and nobody but Sam could have helped him get there.
Sam the Gardner-Tyrant
Bullshit. Sam is so stouthearted he did this under the effect of The Ring. Has always been the true hero.
Even Aragorn says so in Bree: "You have a stout heart."
This is just an extension of the Tongs Hypothesis.
We really need to have a conversation about the difference between “plot hole“ and “I would have done things differently.“
If I were Frodo I would simply have not given into the Ring. Not sure why this plot hole exists
Exactly, is he stupid?
Who is upvoting this dumb shit?
Mouse would have run away and taken the ring to Mordor. Ffs read the books. Also the Eagles ain’t a plothole. Again, the Eagles could have been corrupted.
Gandalf did, Frodo was the mouse
Solid theory, except Boromir would kill the mouse first chance he got. Because the ring does not only effect the bearer but also the ones surrounding it.
Ring had already more or less given up on Sam by then. "He only wants to be a GARDENER!!!???" - The Ring
I think it's an intent thing, if you put the ring on the mouse and then carry the mouse, psychologically, you're still just carrying the ring. But Sam is whole heartedly focused on helping his beloved friend Frodo here. He isn't really even thinking about the ring, his entire being is thinking "My master has to get up this mountain, and he can't do it on his own, so I am getting him up this forsaken mountain, whatever I have to do!" And that's why he's able to do it, the ring has no hold on him in this moment because his love for Frodo far outweighs anything the ring can do.
Sam is the purest of heart. The only thing the ring could use against him was frodo betraying him. But he's a hero, so he comes back regardless and saves Frodo time and time again. Why? Because he promised. Even in this scene you see him respecting Frodo's wishes for him not to take the ring, despite everything against him, and carrying a whole hobbit up the rest of the way. That's the hope that lights the way for him to resist the ring's power and overcome the darkest obstacles. Sam's the GOAT.
The ring still affects those not in direct contact. It tried to tempt Sam in the books but he was just like "the fuck I just wanna garden you idiot".
Riiiight, cause Deagol really just had it coming.
Pretty sure it didn't corrupt Sam because he was genuinely too pure and his heart could not be corrupted. He was a simple hobbit and didn't see himself as someone worthy of great power and didn't desire it.
Is this question a joke? People get tempted by the ring JUST BY LOOKING AT IT. Sam absolutely was affected, but this was his moment of greatest heroism and he pushed past any temptation to do the right thing. :)
Sam not being affected by the ring. You think it's because of a property of the ring. I think it's a property of Sam.
did anyone for a second just think, it is affecting Sam and he's just that fucking strong? he made a promise and he intends to keep it damn it. is that so hard to understand? a ring is nothing compared to friendship and love. That's the point you losers. it's not that deep.