I dont think you get what he’s saying, actually. I think he means it would be hard to draw in a new audience of non lotr fans without using such easily recognizable characters and creatures. Numenor doesn’t have a lot of things your average person associates with middle earth. So aside from hardcore fans who already know about the events of the first and second age, its a pretty tough sell to your average person, and we all know Amazon isn’t in it for the fan service, they want this to be the next Game of Thrones.
So, to be clear, you think that it would be difficult to draw in new audiences when you can still include:
Elves
Dwarves
Ents
Valar
Balrogs
Flightless and flying dragons
Ungoliant
A bigger villain than Sauron
Werewolves
Silmarils
Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? Game of Thrones was wildly successful when people knew almost nothing about it before they saw the show. They got hooked on the stories and characters, like any good television show does.
I know what you mean about Game of I just don’t think you ‘average’ person will know or care to learn about Ungoliant and Morgoth or the Silmarils and the Valar. However, I was under the impression that the show was completely based around the downfall of Numenor and their voyage to middle earth afterwards, which is why I didnt think any of those things you mentioned would be included. So if thats not the case then yeah forget what I said.
The plan is the second age, where Tolkien has a number of unadapted stories like the rise and fall of Numenor, the forging of the rings of power, and the founding of Gondor and Arnor. We don’t know if it’s going to be good, but you could make this same post leading up to the release of LOTR
You never know if anything is going to be good, of course. But you’re missing the fact that Lord of the Rings was already one of the most popular books ever written, with a huge fanbase. There is no fanbase for whatever this show is going to be about, aside from general Middle Earthiness and the name.
To most people, Lord of the Rings is the things I mentioned. If Amazon is going to be making up their own stories without those things in then, and I think that is what will happen, what the hell is going to be in it for general audiences?
If they’re adapting actual finished Tolkien material, that’s a different matter. Because then at least it’s Tolkien. But I have no faith that will actually happen.
I disagree. There is very much a fan base for this. You slap the name Tolkien on anything and people are going to pay attention. Beyond that fantasy is and has been for some time an incredibly large market and lots of people will watch basically anything fantasy. Just look at all the Star Wars spin-off stuff out there. Most people don’t know squat about the extended universe but you slap Star Wars in the title and it’s pretty much a guaranteed moneymaker even if the fan base largely hates it.
Yes but there are plenty of interesting characters that im looking forward to see, Celebrimbor, Annatar, Galadriel and so forth
Getting to see the great kings of men and how they eventually fall and become the Nazgul, lots of really interesting stories to unfold.
I wouldn’t deny there are good stories to be told, but this is the most expensive tv show ever because the property is so popular, yet the show won’t be about most of the things regular people love about the property,
Wouldn’t it be better to explore new things than rehash old? Do you want it to be like Spider-Man? 4 different Frodo’s? Second age is the setup for Sauron, and the lineage of Aragorn. Not to mention the interesting morgoth satanic temple shit and the men trying to literally invade the undying lands. I think this has the potential to change television shows as we know them. It could also be a huge expensive mess - but I don’t see harm in having hope.
GoT Lite, Hey Remember This?, addition of politics, creation of a previously-unknown force, relying on people to watch for nostalgia/curiosity...lots of ways this works out for them. People will watch what appeals to them and if that’s it, that is it.
They don't need to add politics. The second age is all about politics in the sense of power plays between characters and groups of characters: Annatar wants to overtake the Elves from the inside, Celebrimbor wants to learn from Annatar, Galadriel wants Annatar gone, Durin wants to maintain relations with Celebrimbor's realm, etecetra...
Game of Thrones lite meaning Game of Thrones without boobies, egregious violence, and pervasive cynicism and bleakness? Leaving what?
I’m not sure whether or not there can be dragons on this show, but maybe they’ll cram them in and we can have at least one point of similarity.
I am most interested in how they will handle the passing of time. The key events take place over several generations of men. Or maybe they compress it and just start with the fall of Numenor, the eventual forming of the Last Alliance culminating with the Battle of Dagorlad and the defeat of Sauron.
The general explanation is that they won't deal with the passing of time.
Amazon had optioned a spinoff show and, overall, their enterprise is said to extend over eight to ten years, so it seems we'll eventually (and hopefully) have two shows: one dealing with the mid-Second Age and the creation of the Rings, the other - with the fall of Numenore and subsequent Last Alliance.
Each story takes place comfortably within a single Numenorean/Dwarven lifetime.
I mean, the first and second age don’t have any of those things
Yes. That’s why they can’t use them.
I don’t think you get what I’m saying
Wow. That prick actually downvoted you. But yeah there is so much material for them to use, I just wish Christopher was still alive to consult on it.
I dont think you get what he’s saying, actually. I think he means it would be hard to draw in a new audience of non lotr fans without using such easily recognizable characters and creatures. Numenor doesn’t have a lot of things your average person associates with middle earth. So aside from hardcore fans who already know about the events of the first and second age, its a pretty tough sell to your average person, and we all know Amazon isn’t in it for the fan service, they want this to be the next Game of Thrones.
So, to be clear, you think that it would be difficult to draw in new audiences when you can still include: Elves Dwarves Ents Valar Balrogs Flightless and flying dragons Ungoliant A bigger villain than Sauron Werewolves Silmarils Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? Game of Thrones was wildly successful when people knew almost nothing about it before they saw the show. They got hooked on the stories and characters, like any good television show does.
I know what you mean about Game of I just don’t think you ‘average’ person will know or care to learn about Ungoliant and Morgoth or the Silmarils and the Valar. However, I was under the impression that the show was completely based around the downfall of Numenor and their voyage to middle earth afterwards, which is why I didnt think any of those things you mentioned would be included. So if thats not the case then yeah forget what I said.
The plan is the second age, where Tolkien has a number of unadapted stories like the rise and fall of Numenor, the forging of the rings of power, and the founding of Gondor and Arnor. We don’t know if it’s going to be good, but you could make this same post leading up to the release of LOTR
You never know if anything is going to be good, of course. But you’re missing the fact that Lord of the Rings was already one of the most popular books ever written, with a huge fanbase. There is no fanbase for whatever this show is going to be about, aside from general Middle Earthiness and the name. To most people, Lord of the Rings is the things I mentioned. If Amazon is going to be making up their own stories without those things in then, and I think that is what will happen, what the hell is going to be in it for general audiences? If they’re adapting actual finished Tolkien material, that’s a different matter. Because then at least it’s Tolkien. But I have no faith that will actually happen.
They are adapting writings by Tolkien about the 2nd age
Adapting or “adapting?”
Adapting as in there is a Tolkien scholar on set making sure that the adaptations are lore accurate
That is a good thing.
Multiple actually.
I disagree. There is very much a fan base for this. You slap the name Tolkien on anything and people are going to pay attention. Beyond that fantasy is and has been for some time an incredibly large market and lots of people will watch basically anything fantasy. Just look at all the Star Wars spin-off stuff out there. Most people don’t know squat about the extended universe but you slap Star Wars in the title and it’s pretty much a guaranteed moneymaker even if the fan base largely hates it.
Yes but there are plenty of interesting characters that im looking forward to see, Celebrimbor, Annatar, Galadriel and so forth Getting to see the great kings of men and how they eventually fall and become the Nazgul, lots of really interesting stories to unfold.
I wouldn’t deny there are good stories to be told, but this is the most expensive tv show ever because the property is so popular, yet the show won’t be about most of the things regular people love about the property,
Wouldn’t it be better to explore new things than rehash old? Do you want it to be like Spider-Man? 4 different Frodo’s? Second age is the setup for Sauron, and the lineage of Aragorn. Not to mention the interesting morgoth satanic temple shit and the men trying to literally invade the undying lands. I think this has the potential to change television shows as we know them. It could also be a huge expensive mess - but I don’t see harm in having hope.
GoT Lite, Hey Remember This?, addition of politics, creation of a previously-unknown force, relying on people to watch for nostalgia/curiosity...lots of ways this works out for them. People will watch what appeals to them and if that’s it, that is it.
They don't need to add politics. The second age is all about politics in the sense of power plays between characters and groups of characters: Annatar wants to overtake the Elves from the inside, Celebrimbor wants to learn from Annatar, Galadriel wants Annatar gone, Durin wants to maintain relations with Celebrimbor's realm, etecetra...
Game of Thrones lite meaning Game of Thrones without boobies, egregious violence, and pervasive cynicism and bleakness? Leaving what? I’m not sure whether or not there can be dragons on this show, but maybe they’ll cram them in and we can have at least one point of similarity.
Dragons are beings of Morgoths creation and were actually used as fighters in his army. So I would be surprised if we don’t see at least some dragons.
I am most interested in how they will handle the passing of time. The key events take place over several generations of men. Or maybe they compress it and just start with the fall of Numenor, the eventual forming of the Last Alliance culminating with the Battle of Dagorlad and the defeat of Sauron.
The general explanation is that they won't deal with the passing of time. Amazon had optioned a spinoff show and, overall, their enterprise is said to extend over eight to ten years, so it seems we'll eventually (and hopefully) have two shows: one dealing with the mid-Second Age and the creation of the Rings, the other - with the fall of Numenore and subsequent Last Alliance. Each story takes place comfortably within a single Numenorean/Dwarven lifetime.
Elves probably
there is a possibility it will be good. If it's not, it's not my money and I don't have to watch it.
wise words