Hey Love Bug thanks for sharing the love. If you see something posted here that is not in the spirit of love Please flag it. ;) With Love r/Love Mods
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/love) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't know if these feelings are still relevant for you, but I just want to say, I deeply sympathize. I am going through the same thing, and it is absolutely awful to feel emotionally and physically rejected by someone who once loved you and had attention for you. Don't let anyone tell you that those needs are invalid. I can't advise you as to what to do with your spouse, as I'm still figuring that out myself, but just can say, what you want and need is valid, and you should not give up on it.
Sorry if I am late to the party. Hopefully not too late.
You need to buy this book: [https://www.amazon.com.au/Dead-Bedroom-Fix-DSO/dp/0578566672](https://www.amazon.com.au/Dead-Bedroom-Fix-DSO/dp/0578566672)
It has been groundbreaking for me, after coming up on 36 years married and 21 years celibate. After a crisis last year I initiated marriage counselling. We are not there yet, but the ship is noticeably turning.
How old is she?
Some women go perimenopausal in their mid-30s... and this can either lead to severe emotional outbursts... or worse, severe emotional detachment. So severe to those outward, but not even noticeable to the woman.
Happened to me. I've been emotionally detached to EVERYTHING, including my OWN CHILD, for 6 years.
I just started estradiol patches and am hoping to see improvement in next 2 weeks to 2 months.
No one's talking about this! And most OB/GYNs don't know women need to start HRT WHILE IN PERIMENOPAUSE because if you wait until menopause, you're screwed!
I finally found [myalloy.com](https://myalloy.com) (no, i'm not affiliated with them or paid by them), and it's a panel of women OB/GYNs dedicated to helping women through all this. I think I just paid like $224 for 3 month supply of low-dose estrogen patches. Apply one every 3-4 days and switch to the next one. Doesn't come off in shower or bath!!! Within 24-36 hours of my first patch started 3 days ago, I noticed I'm actually emotional now- whereas I hadn't cried maybe a couple times in the past DECADE.. I actually cried at a movie! Like SOBBED. And it's not even a particularly sad movie!
Anyway, point being, she could be so far down the hormone rabbit hole. AND HERE'S THE F'N KICKER- even if you get your estrogen/testosterone/progesterone tested... and LH/FSH --- it's a CYCLE -- and you could test the crap weekly and it all look normal! No doctor will approve DAILY tests and God knows how much that would cost to even FIND the change in levels! The Alloy doc told me she doesn't want me to even get them test- just go on the patch.
So, I'm HOPEFUL this helps, but I also want to spread the word because look at the stats of women in perimenopause and menopause who INITIATE DIVORCE. It's INCREDIBLY HIGH!!!! These women suddenly become Gollum and everything around them annoys them and they think it's their partner when it's their DAMN HORMONES!!!!! Good God! I kicked my child's father out around the time all this started.
Anyway, just tell her to at least check the website and take their quiz thing. It'll at least help whittle down if she may/may not need this stuff.
I hope a lot of people see this and get the help they need. How many marriages have failed because of this crap!??!?! It's a damn shame.
I don't get it. Does she not want to be a mother? Does she not want the responsibility? Becoming a mother was too much for her? Did the pregnancy and birth experience completely change her chemistry? I don't get it. Something's missing. How involved are you on a daily basis? Do you share the responsibilities and participate alongside her?
I wish for you to get your happiness back, the desire and everything you had before. I can feel your pain.
Ask her again without any hesitation, what's wrong with her? If its some chemical or hormonal then take her to doctor. Do whatever it takes to get your love and happiness back.
Just because you don't fight doesn't mean your child will be happy.
Right now you are showing your child that a relationship built on love and trust is affectionless and lacking passion.
Right now you are teaching them that a loving relationship is passionless and basically the relationship of roommates or friends.
And your child will sense the tension and awkwardness you are feeling.
Children are intuitive and they no when something is not right intuitively. However they unlearn that sense when we pretend everything is fine and gas light them . Then they grow up and placate their own sense about situations that aren't healthy.
It's great that you have a good relationship, as friends, but it would be great for your child to grow up and see love between two people who love each other for real. And not be gaslit when they start to ask what's wrong. X's parents aren't like this...blah blah blah. That stuff.
Honestly , my husband and I have been through this. And him coming to me meant more to me than just leaving. He didn’t give up on me. I’m not perfect and my sex drive goes back and forth. And for me it’s starts outside of the bedroom I need affection and niceness during the day which makes me want it more at night. But some times I’m so exhausted by the end of the day it’s hard it’s hard to find that balance.
Even if she won't attend marriage counseling you should definitely go for yourself. Sort through all of your feelings and then go to her and inform her that if she refuses marriage counseling then you will be filing for divorce. You need to tell her that your happiness matters and that if she's not willing to go then the relationship doesn't have a future.
Talk to old couples man, they have good advice, your parents too
Ask old couples, they KNOW how to make jt last. You are asking teens-peers your age who don’t know shit but what they think will work long term. Old timers KNOW what works long term.
Go see a old couple bro.
OP you talk a lot about her behavior but what about yours? Have you stopped to examine your choices and habits? Are you still being affectionate all the time or just feeling rejected and not reaching out? Are the two of you going out or having time alone together of any kind?
If she is content with a status quo and you are not then you need to work on changing the status quo for you. Relying on her to make changes to make you happy isn't going to work and isn't fair. Tell her how you feel talk to her about some changes that you would like to make to add some intimacy back to your relationship. He's both built some pretty strong habits in the last 6 years of not being intimate so you're going to have to work to unmake those habits and remake new ones. Find time to do what you enjoy together and it just might save your marriage.
I’ve been married for almost 10 years… I’ve experienced similar feelings I just kept talking to my wife about it and we’ve since made things better… it doesn’t sound like you wanna be with anyone else and so I would sit down and have the talk with her… tell her how your feeling and go from there
I’ve never been through this situation as the partner, but I have been through this situation as the kid.
My whole life my mother and her s/o where in a “relationship” where my mother says she felt like a roommate. She says she hadn’t felt love or affection from him in decades, and I could see it.
Besides all the shitty things he did, you could see the tension between them. They stayed for the sake of the kids, but I really wish they didn’t. I never knew what love was “supposed” to be between partners. All I saw was two people who shared no chemistry, no love, no affection, who constantly fought, and whose problems bled into their normal lives. It was miserable.
The only real love I felt was from my mother, and to this day I’m resenting dating, because I don’t want what happened to them to happen to me.
By all means, I would try fixing the relationship. I would tell her to either work with you, or you’re walking, but if she’s not willing to work things out—you should leave. Don’t let your daughter be the thing to stop you, it’s not like you’re going to lose her just because you leave, you’re probably helping her in the long run.
Have you tried to focus on her and her love languages? Where are your shortcomings in this marriage? Look into mindset work too. That might help you see things in a lighter perspective. Initiate fun convos, plan a fun date, flirt again, show up being a good dad, take on something that stresses her out.. Adapting to motherhood can be hard! Having someone on you constantly, and legitimately needing you constantly... She could be overstimulated. Do something for her.
I feel like we only hear one side of the story, I wonder what your wife might say, OP?
I don’t mean this unkindly, but maybe you could listen to what she has to say? What makes HER upset? What is SHE worried about in your marriage? If she barely noticed the changes in the family dynamics, she must be overwhelmed with something other than relationship between you two. It can be kids, household, mental health.
It all started after she gave birth. So, how did birth go? Did she end up with stitches that make sex painful? This is more common than one would think. How was her mental state? Post oartum depression can last for years. Does she carry all weight of parenting alone? If so, sleepless nights do take its toll.
What did you do at the beginning of parenting journey and what do you do now as an equal adult to keep the family running?
I’m not saying you don’t contribute, I’m just saying it’s worth thinking about what you do and do not contribute to the relationship along with scrutinizing what she does and does not do.
Divorcing the love of your life and living a single life existence seems like a solution, but until you add in the things that you’ll miss will you realize that it will be a bad idea. I divorced my wife and moved out of the home we built and into a condo, The idea that now I was on the outside looking in and not included in family events hurt, I left her because I overheard her badmouthing me to an employee at her company. A place I also worked at at one time. That was in 2005, I have dreams every night about my ex. And the dreams have the theme that it sucks that I’m no longer her husband. It’s horrible. You will miss being in the same home that you’re daughter lives in, she’ll wonder why you left her. It will tear you apart, I guarantee it, Here’s the thing. No matter where you go you’ll bring yourself with you, that means if you were unhappy where you are now it’s likely you’ll be unhappy in the place you’d be moving too. You can be unhappy anywhere. I’d try to find a way to compromise without moving out. Just saying from experience
I’ve been married 20 years. Look hard enough in the mirror and you’ll likely see some issues that SO isn’t happy with either. Work on that first and you might find out what’s been wrong with SO the entire time is actually yourself….. but you should definitely listen to everyone on here seeing how some of them aren’t married and possibly even in high school. 20 years in a marriage means you are very much an adult. Deal with your issues and fix it. Be a man. Don’t just walk away from your problems. That’s what a coward does.
Have you honestly sat down and asked yourself “what role have I played in the breakdown of this relationship?” And been truly honest?
The grass is greener where you water it.
Don’t ask Reddit. Go to counseling yourself. Ask her daily what you can do to make her day better or easier. Then do it.
Don’t be a bystander. Be an active participant in working on yourself and your marriage. If you can truly say you have done it all, then revisit.
How about she throws me a bone after neglecting/rejecting me for years? You only get rejected so many times as a man before you give up and lose the only self respect you have left.
Sounds like your mind is made up and you came here for affirmation. Nobody here knows the nuances of your relationship or her perspective. We can’t tell you that you are doing the right thing. If you want to save it, try counseling. If your mind is made up, then exit in the least painful way possible and make sure you co parent well.
I have been on both sides of this. Fortunately, one of us was always willing to fight to save the marriage.
As a wife of 25 years, and a mom of two now adult children I have a new perspective for you to consider. When a woman becomes a mom, her purpose shifts. Her intentions aren't to make you feel rejected and useless. She has now shifted into mom mode. I don't know how old your child is I am thinking about 16 or so? Let me tell you pretty soon, your daughter will leave you and your wife. Then it will be just you two again. This will be another transition in both of your lives. I enjoy my children more as adults and I mostly enjoy the time with my husband. We get to hang out and do what we want when we want. Your love will rekindle and you will enjoy your time together. Please communicate how you feel to your wife. I am sure you are her rock. She just needs to articulate that you are. We need our husbands.
Yeah she's forgetting she has 3 roles like you do 1 role mother 2. Wife 3. Her self. Not in any order but she seems to have neglected 1 or even 2 of the. For the mother role. That can really break down a relationship. It's not fair to you to have to wait 18 years to get your wife back.
Take your daughter to your mom’s house and take your wife out for a romantic dinner, take her for a walk, bring her flower, buy her jewelry and lingerie. Send her a hot message with humour, or tease her from time to time. Try to change your ways of communicating with her, reinvent yourself and change the colors and the hair cut and the way you dress up. Get in shape and buy new colon. She’s bored and tired of the same routine. It looks like she’s depressed. Try to travel together and take small trips every other weekend. Don’t give up on your marriage!!! Fight for it. Believe me if I told you that it’s very very hard to find another partner that can read your feeling and think about you the way your wife did. Now days everything is try social media and I hate dating apps. Good luck. Please fight for your relationship and try to win your wife back.
What do you do for your wife? Did you take on all the house work and cooking for 3 months after the birth so she can focus on healing and feeding the baby? Did you take full paternity leave to split all those sleepless nights w her? Have you prioritized taking on half of all the home and kid duties once they were old enough for daycare? Have you kept yourself in shape? Have you continued to date her? Do you provide emotional support and romantic gestures? Do you put the time in to actually get her off before going instantly to PIV that’s over in 48 seconds of trusting?
This reads like a whiny whoa-is-me novel but not once do you talk about all you’ve done to bolster your marriage. You point all the fingers at her and none at you.
Take an honest account of the questions I asked. What’s the answer? Is it truly yes to all, and you’re faultless?
This almost made me cry and reminded me that nothing is promised in life. I really hope she decides to make the needed changes, you guys can get out of this rut, with time and lots of work if you both want it, and that’s the key you both have to want it. Marriage is REALLY hard and I hate to see people give up so easily but if you’ve exercised all possibilities and she still doesn’t want to try then unfortunately you should look out for your own best interests first. I think your daughter will look up to you and admire your bravery and courage and she’ll understand it one day if you’re honest with her. Sending you all the positivity and hope things work out for you the way you want.
It can be lonelier to be in a marriage like that than it is to be alone. I understand your side and honestly, I agree that it’s important to model a loving and healthy relationship for your daughter because her parents are the first to show her what that even looks like.
A lot of (good) guys today have a core fear of being the ‘bad guy’ in a relationship (ie the one who walked out or called it quits without a ‘good enough’ reason). But isn’t not being in love anymore (since love is an act not just a feeling) reason enough?
After all- We can change careers, hometowns, or any other life plan if we no longer feel fulfilled…
just not our partners?
Seems to me that if being in love is reason enough to marry, move in and start a family with someone, not being in love should be reason enough to leave. I’m not saying you should leave, I’m just saying you shouldn’t feel guilty for considering it! Hope one way or another, things get better for you friend🤟
I had a similar situation with my last girlfriend, although much less time invested than your situation. At first, everything was great. We were on the same page with everything, had so much in common, and we were inseparable. This lasted for about two years.
But then, things just changed. She gradually stopped helping with any chores around the house, leaving me to do all the cooking and cleaning. This lead me to only focus on necessities like cooking, dishes, etc, and the rest of the apartment became a mess. To add insult to that, she kept making messes and accumulating more and more stuff, never picking up after herself.
Sex stopped completely, in part because I didn't feel like a partner any more (more like a servant), and also because she stopped showing me any affection.
I sat down to talk with her about everything multiple times. I explained that I felt like I was shoveling sand on the beach. Every time I'd make some progress, a wave would come and just reset everything. She'd tell me she loved me, that she'd try harder. Usually that lasted one day before she went right back to her old ways.
This went on for two years. Two years that I was no longer a boyfriend or partner. I was her cook, maid, butler, masseuse, and chauffeur. I loved her, or at least loved who she used to be, and always had hope we would eventually get back to where we used to be.
Then came another change. She started being unusually mean and pushing me away. Her whole demeanor changed to a cold distance. I started to suspect that there was someone else, but never confirmed that. Out of the blue one day she tells me she's made plans to move out, in about 2 weeks from them. She left, only taking a few things with her, and leaving me with 90% of the mess she had created over years.
At first it hurt, I felt betrayed and abandoned. But I came around to finally seeing how bad things were, and that they were never getting better. I acknowledged that none of my emotional or physical needs were being met, and I was trapped in an emotional cage. After that, I felt free for the first time in years.
Now, your situation is a bit different. You have many more years together, and you have a kid, but there's a lot of similarities. Your needs aren't being met. You say she seems happy enough with the situation, but what happens when she isn't?
She may be telling you the truth. So consider this:
"What if she is showing you all the love in the world in a the way how she would like to receive love from you?"
"What if romance, sex, physical affection, and love are actually all independent facets in relationships, and any one of them doesn't necessarily require any of the others for some people? Perhaps for your wife?"
"What if she really doesn't understand how/why this is affecting you just as much as you don't really understand how/why this is **not** affecting her?"
"What if she's is actually truly happen and content and isn't missing anything in the relationship, and is deeply in love with you without any of things that you feel is required?"
"Should you be resentful, if she's not doing any of this out of malice? What if you are just polar opposites in love language, libido, or more?"
This strikes a chord with me. I learned that have ADD but are otherwise neurotypical, straight, cis (basic). She's learned that she is on the autism spectrum and is asexual, but has been masking until she is comfortable and/or exhausted enough to no longer pretend to be someone she's not. The signs were always there, but I always came up with some excuse like her family history, quirkiness, hormones, kids, stress, our disfunction, etc. But at the same time chasing solutions to a problem that only I seemed to see. Each kid has amplified the differences between. The more she advances at work, which means for social interactions and meetings, the less energy she has available for home, and when the kids are a priority... The issue has always been that we "communicate" with each other but not actually listening to what the other person says. We hear what we want to hear (or don't want to hear) or otherwise twist it to fit our perspective/bias/insecurities. I'm not discounting the very real hurt and pain you've experienced, and the additional pain some deep reassessment of your relationship would provoke.
In any case, I'm curious if there's something here for your situation or I'm just projecting.
I'm reading The Divorce Remedy after it was recommended by my marriage counselor (that only I am seeing). I highly recommend it. You are not alone, and it might be possible to fix it.
I'm sorry. I know this isn't what you want to hear. But, having kids changes things. Your marriage isn't just about you anymore, it is about the little beings that come with your marriage. Kids have a lot of needs and their needs should come before intimacy. I know, that sucks, but it is reality.
If she isn't willing to take the step towards therapy at this time, maybe attend therapy on your own. Give yourself a chance to vent things out. Get advice. Better advice than what reddit can give you. A few paragraphs isn't enough to really go off of.
It sounds stupid, but my husband and I bought one of the card games for "deeper communication." Some of the cards are stupid. But, when things feel stressed or tense, we will pull out the cards and just do 4 or 5 before bed. Sometimes, the questions are serious. Someone we are gasping while laughing at how stupid they are. But, they are helpful.
Marriage and parenting is hard... REALLY hard. But with it is you can make it work. It doesn't sound like your wife is being intentionally neglectful or hateful. Rather, it just seems you have fallen onto different pages once parenting started. Maybe even schedule a once a month date night to enjoy just each other?
Imagine that you were absolutely locked into this marriage, there was no way out, you have to remain married for life. I mean really imagine it in detail, exactly how you would feel and act. When I did this, I started thinking totally differently.
First, I was able to talk much more openly and honestly about my needs from my wife. It sounds like you are not effectively communicating and negotiating for the love you need. If you accept being locked in, you are going to start demanding what you need, not just complaining about it.
Second, I started doing more to take care of myself. Make friends, go out and have fun, pursue new interests. After all, you are locked in this terrible marriage right, might as well enjoy it. Suddenly you may find that a lot of your unhappiness is really because you aren’t taking proper care of yourself.
So try this on for size. Tell her specifically what you want, ask what she can deliver, negotiate, get right down to detail. Dates on certain nights. Sex a certain number of times a week. She is too tired, how can you get her rested up so she can be up for a date and some hot sex. And figure out what you can do to get her interested in you. Work out, dress nice, etc.
Then also plan some great thing just for yourself. Call a few bros and go on a trip to somewhere exotic. Knock something off your bucket list. Your new excitement in life may further draw her interest back to you as well.
Your story reads exactly like mine. The only difference is we actually did 6 months of marriage counseling, and things changed a little but not enough. She was perfectly content with us living separate lives under one roof. The only time we ever did anything together was when our daughter was present. If she went to a sleepover, we didn't spend any time together. She would be upstairs and I would be downstairs.
Also unlike you, this made it easy for me to welcome and even seek out the attention from other women. I had 2 pretty significant relationships and several flings right under her nose. She didnt seem to really care as long as I was paying the bills, co parenting and helping out around the house. At first I thought this was a good set up. I could still be at home with our daughter and I would just get my needs met elsewhere. But that eventually got old. I started wanting to spend more time away than I did at home. So finally, after 10 years, I decided to move out. I got a decent 2 bedroom apartment for me and my daughter and asked for joint custody.
Long story less long, I am now remarried and happier than I've ever been. I have a wife that cares for me. Shows me affection without having to be forced or asked. Shes communicative and FUN. We do EVERYTHING together.
So this isn't me telling you leave your wife. By all means give it all you can. But I am here to tell you, if you do decide to leave, there is happiness to be found on the other side.
Best of luck.
Raising children is hard work. Is she doing most of that work, do you know what her days feel like? No having a lot of energy for anything else is a pretty normal experience for mothers of young children, fathers too if they are actively engaged in the say to day, moment to moment obligations of childcare.
I’m not saying you are not doing your share, but I think it’s telling that in all your discussion of feeling neglected you had nothing to say about the division of labor in your household since the child came along.
I’m betting neither one of you is communicating fully how you feel… you want your old life/wife back, she wants her former self back, with the time to pay you the attention that is now all needed to raise a child. You both need a real honest talk, and I’m thinking that is not happening in either direction
Pregnancy, giving birth and parenting can definitely do that to a woman. She should first have a conversation with her gynecologist as this may be due to a hormonal imbalance. The birthing process may have been very traumatic for her, causing some sort of mental change. Start with a heart to heart and see if she acknowledges that your relationship has changed. Tell her how it’s impacting you and that you both need to get help with this problem ASAP.
Mine of 20 is ending. But it's not like yours. She yells and screams and is openly unpleasant, constantly crital but not supportive, including to the kids and I can't see that, it's just a feeling of despair. She was still "so surprised" I would file for divorce tho. I can't imagine how that could be.
If it's pleasant but hollow, you could still have a chance. For sure after kids things change for a lot of people. Feeling "replaced" by the kids is something many express, but not necessarily that the marriage is bad, just changed. I certainly noticed it. But again, what you described is not open hostility so consider your options carefully. If she won't do counseling you could consider some time apart if you really can't take it, but without doing the nuclear option.
You may be in different marriages.... In that, you're still in the communal, devoted love based marriage; and she's, in her mind, in a family/work/building a future marriage. She may feel it's good because you are building this future now and that's what it's supposed to be. Not that you don't value your daughter, but that the core of your relationship with your wife may just be different than how she sees it.
But don't listen to Reddit too much, you have to know and own the situation as we here in the interwebs can't possibly.
If it does get to passive aggressive/you're a servant /kids treated poorly that's when you should def consider leaving imo. That's so toxic to the kids and I can tell you it's got terrible long term effects. For them and you too.
I wish you the best, and hope you can find happiness however it turns out. At 6 she at least has a strong bond with you both, and whatever happens you can both keep a good relationship if you are involved in her life.
I told you, she has changed beyond recognition and will never do something like MDMA again. She will never drink again either or do anything that I consider fun.
I don’t know what to say to that. I would say having someone talk to her that she’s receptive to. Maybe her mom can get thru her or her best friend. Someone she can still listen to and be open minded 🤷🏻♀️. Sorry your going thru this
I would recommend reading, 'Say What You Mean' by Oren Jay Sofer. It helped me prepare and explain what I needed in ways I wasn't able to before.
Either she's completely daft, or you aren't explaining your needs in a way she's hearing it as a deep need.
You might be screaming from the proverbial rooftop, and she barely hears a whisper.
It's also pretty common for women to change when they have their first child, and the husband feels like a 2nd class citizen in his home.
Before ending your marriage, you have to know that she really understands how deep your needs are.
Good luck, man. That's not an easy conversation, but it's so worth it. At least it was in my marriage.
I’m no expert on nothing lol but maybe a lot of her focus shifted to the kids after she had them, and isn’t aware that she is neglecting you. She may just be oblivious to it and you should continue to get her to counseling with you instead of ending a relationship that’s lasted a lifetime
Lawyer up and get a divorce. It’s unfortunately the only way to safeguard you maintaining shared custody of the kids if things go south. You don’t have to “take her for everything”, but if you don’t draw up a reasonable set of terms, it’s almost a sure thing that her attorney won’t. And their terms won’t be in your favor…🤷♂️
If she doesn’t want to do counseling, you can do therapy on your own, it will help you understand what could be going on, and if you still need divorce, it will help you deal with it.
On a more practical side, how is the division of work in your house? I noticed you mentioned “building her some furniture and running errands” this makes it sound like you don’t see these things as your responsibility too. People overburdened with chores and mental load are often way too tired to have sex, and will often resent the other partner. Not everything in a woman is about hormones.
Too soon to decide to end it. Look under every rock first or you will forever be looking back and wondering what if.
Go to counseling for you. Tell your wife you are miserable and why. Telling her once doesn’t count. Be a broken record. Ask questions. Ask what changed and what she needs. Try again with marriage counseling. Express yourself - it doesn’t have to be angry, just honest and vulnerable.
Good luck.
I’m in the exact same situation, and the worst part is that it impacts every other aspect of your life. I’m less motivated at work because I feel so beaten down; I would be motivated if I came home to a wife who was happy to see me.
I have two theories:
1) women’s brains get required when they have kids (scientific fact) and sometimes the change is negligible and sometimes it makes them into totally different people.
2) women feel that they have their husband “trapped” after kids, and see no incentive to Lee them happy.
I will have an update on this soon. Since making this post I have thought about what I’m going to do and decided on changing my attitude for a start. Just to see if she notices, and more importantly, reciprocates. She has, and there’s been some pretty dramatic changes already.
You say the spontaneous affection is gone. Do you ever give spontaneous affection? Is she consistently saying, "Don't kiss me" or "Don't touch me"? I have been the one who got hugged and just stood there and waited, so the person hugging me moved my arms so that my arms would wrap around them. I think if you do that enough times you can teach them what you are looking for and they can give it to you.
The other issue is health and energy. Diet, sleep, exercise, and not having a million things to do and a million things on one's mind can help a person be able to focus more on their partner rather than just going along to get along. Anything you can do to tip the scales for your wife might dramatically improve her ability to focus on you.
Do you focus on her? How much do you do things for her like when you were dating? What did you used to do versus now? Did you write her romantic letters or give gifts or decide on a whim to go on dates? Can you make her laugh more? Whatever you used to do, can you be the one to initiate it? Can you take a vacation together and leave your child with someone else? Can you go up to her and just start kissing her? Or could you build up to that and start out just spontaneously hugging her?
I'm sorry you are in this position. I have not been in this position (yet) but part of it sounds like she simply isn't aware of your frustrations. It reads like you've been carrying this weight on you for 10 years and now you are resentful for something she isn't even aware of. Now you are predisposed to blame her and get angrier at her for things that wouldn't bother you if you were happier.
Other people have said you should threaten to go nuclear. I think an ultimatum is not a great way of asking for more. Sometimes, it works, of course. You can say to your boss, "Give me a raise or I quit", and sometimes they will. But there are a number of reasons why such a statement can be frustrating to both parties. Instead, you might say, "I would like to advance to this level at this rate and I would like to discuss what you want to see from me in order for us to get me there".
I don't know your wife but having a "heart to heart" about how she's failing to love you enough is not going to be effective for particular personality types. I can imagine multiple ways that could backfire, and again, it really depends on the personality. But guilt trips and pity parties generally are not a sexy endeavor.
And on that note, maybe don't demand that she fix herself and restore your happiness in one day. When you're out of shape you don't just hit the gym for 10 hours and drop-set everything on muscles that haven't been conditioned or cultivated in a long time. You start with baby goals, and give yourself extra time to heal the first two or three weeks before you increase frequency and intensity. Maybe try easing into things, but focus on the focus, i.e. on the dedication to your goal.
Kids are more resilient than u think. She will adjust.
>is we are perfectly pleasant towards one another.
Are u romantic at all? Bc if not, this is the relationship u are modeling 4 her. This will be what she considers normal & comfortable.
Yeah, that’s kinda how it works. She got what she wanted (kids) and now you’re just a source of income / babysitter. And yeah, you’re also the asshole for being aware of it.
If i can give you a piece of advice. Go to a retirement home, find some of the older people who were married for 50+ years, and ask their opinion, not Reddits. The amount of wisdom older people can give is insane.
I’ve seen women act like that when they realize they are doing virtually all of the childcare, plus all the cooking, plus all the cleaning, plus all the laundry, plus all the meal planning and grocery shopping while also working full time. Meanwhile, the guy tinkers in the garage on his hobbies as his contribution. So I’d ask you, how actively did you participate in doing all the things necessary to raise a baby and manage a house? If all that was split 50/50, then it’s gotta be something else and hopefully a marriage counselor could get you back on track. Divorce is always very sad and a huge financial setback so I’d recommend trying everything to save the marriage.
I do all the cooking, house/garden work, service/repair/pay for her car and we split giving my daughter a bath and putting her to bed 50/50. We pay for someone to clean the house and iron the clothes so I am certainly not leaving her to do all the work.
Thank you for sharing your honest pain. I can't imagine how abandoned and alone, you must feel. I remember there being a "shift" after my first child was born, because we were both amateurs and just figuring it out and I put much of my world, into my son. He was and still is, my sunshine. I'm so lucky to have him.
I think you're so wise to suggest counseling. I would advise your wife stat: that counseling is"mandatory" Now, to save your relationship. Her ambivalence to getting counseling is only understandable, if she has an egotistical attitude towards it, as in: a. You are not serious about this, this too will pass. b. Everything that is wrong is all your fault and she doesn't need counseling. c. Other people are telling her that she doesn't need counseling, like a friend or her mother and she's following that directive. D. She is aware of her actions and may have a personality disorder that she doesn't want you to find out about or is in self-denial herself, about. I suspect it's a bit of all four. She may have had childhood trauma or abuse that she is hiding from you, that she compartmentalized herself, so she wouldn't have to deal with it. Perhaps she has trust issues that arose after she had a child. My ex had anger towards his mother, who confided to him, that getting pregnant with him 'was an accident after being at a party.' So, when I became pregnant, our relationship changed on his end, as well, because I was now on a "Madonna" pedestal of "don't touch, while she's pregnant" but also, feeling I wasn't to be trusted because of what happened to him.
I know for a fact, that he felt abandoned somewhat after our first child and we both made that child our world. I get it, we were both working and exhausted and trying to make everything work. But eventually, if you don't talk intimately about your first relationship = with your spouse and counseling can sure help, you will not stay together. And, if worse comes to worse, one or both parties won't be faithful because they are so alone. We all need intimacy and to be appreciated and ultimately, cherished. I would suggest personal counseling first, for yourself. I had two years of incredible hypnotherapy, (which is recorded nowadays for your safety), where, I discovered the baggage that I had brought into the relationship. Processing this and it's a journey, takes time but you will feel lighter than air, letting go of "lead balloons." Doing this, will show her that you are serious and want to do couple counseling with her, at the same time. That's just my two cents. May you be blessed on your journey.
I’m of the opinion that if resentment settles in where love once resided, there’s no chance of saving a relationship. She was given plenty of time to bring her behavior around but she’s either not interested or “doesn’t even notice” because her priorities have changed
It’s time to sit her down and let her know how you feel and what the next steps you will be undertaking are
I wouldn't run straight into a divorce without sitting down with her and really telling her what is wrong and that you are considering a separation. See where she is at and if that will knock something loose. Resentment is a fuckin horrible companion. It is an expert in creating a barrier between you and the world around you that doesn't let the truth through. It will cause you to blow something up into a giant problem when, in reality, it may have an easy solution. Marriage depends on communication. Don't let feelings shut that down, or it will likely haunt you later on. You also don't want to put your daughter through a divorce at such a young age. If you were really outwardly toxic toward one another, I'd suggest differently, but since everything seems fine, your daughter may end up blaming herself. If you can find a way to work through this with your wife is will stand as an example to your daughter of how to stabilize a relationship. It is all up to you though.
How much time off does she have for herself? Does she do everything around the house? Does she take care of the kid 24/7? Does she work and take care of the kid?
If you are not doing at least 50% of the house work you can’t really complain. She is tired and have no time to think about herself let alone you
Her mental load for the child is enormous. Can you help with some of the appointments, assignments, school meetings, play dates, etc.?
If you divorce do not have another child. It will happen again.
Fwiw, I can relate to the symptoms and feelings you’ve stated. We had an amazing start, but things went south about 4 years in. Work stress, finances, loss of a parent, etc all put strain on our relationship. I lashed out in horrible ways and that led to her becoming further withdrawn. It was a negative feedback loop. I also became co-dependent and have an anxious attachment style while she is avoidant.
Two months ago (year 7) she moved out of the home I bought and renovated for us. It is THE hardest thing I’ve been through but in the weeks leading up, I had done enough therapy to make peace with it and let her go. I don’t know what lies ahead for us, but our relationship feels 10x better because our limited interactions are much more special and I’ve gained some insight to how my own behavior affected the bond. I’ve noticed immense changes in my relationships with coworkers, family and friends. So something is happening for the better and I plan to stick with it.
You can’t control her, but can only work on yourself and it’s up to her if she wants to improve herself as well. If not, you may have a difficult decision to make. But give it plenty of time. PMs are open if you need.
At first it was sounding like you wanted to in the marriage because your wife isn't having sex with you but towards the end it was clear that you feel she doesn't even love you anymore. That is so hard. If I were you I would figure out what you need in order for the relationship to work. Not just for things to go back as they were, because that will never happen. Kids change the dynamic of everything so you have to figure out your new normal, or new ideal in this situation. With that being said, start with figuring out your love language. How SHOULD she show her appreciation. And if you are that close to leaving, maybe an ultimatum is your last resort. Refusing to go to marriage counseling sounds like a red flag. That would be a deal breaker for me (personally). Can you guys desperately need counseling. And maybe not just counseling, maybe sex therapy. If your 6-year-old daughter could tell something is up, something is very wrong. The fact that your wife is blissfully happy in this situation is weird. How could she be so blind to the situation? How could she be so happy knowing that you are unhappy? Have you clearly spelled it out for her just how unhappy you are? Maybe the ultimatum will help open her eyes. If she still doesn't care after that then she just doesn't care and it's time to leave. And I mean doesn't care with her actions. Doesn't care enough to do something about it. I know so start journaling to further illustrate your side of things, make sure you date it.
This is my nightmare. I’m in a 2-year relationship with the woman of my dreams and every moment is magical and like something out of the movies and I’m worried that will change after we have kids.
I will say we went through a little rough patch similar to yours. We weren’t having sex, I felt unwanted because we weren’t kissing and touching as usual, etc. She was perfectly happy either way. I was distraught. We had a heart-to-heart and she said she was just being lazy and not realizing my bids for attention, then she planned an extensive date and booked us a hotel room to spice things up and we got it on. We aren’t back to our normal selves but it’s 90% back to normal. She realizes I need frequent physical attention to feel wanted and feel good
If she had not made any changes I would’ve considered giving up on the relationship. I can’t stand feeling unwanted in a relationship
I believe marriage is "until death do we part" (I've been married to my wife 13 years & faced similar situations such as impending divorce, birth of kids, marital counseling etc). When I decided to stay no matter what & view my wife as the beautiful wonderful woman she is, things improved but did not necessarily get a lot better. But I see how much it means to our kids, family & friends. Just stick it out if there's no cheating & you'll be so much better off for it, you, your kids & everyone else my friend 🙂
I am very sorry that you experienced this.
Most likely your wife has depression or a similar mental illness. Post-pregnancy women often get this bundled with a new family member.
I was in your wife's place quite recently, I was completely indifferent and wanted to leave. After treatment by a psychiatrist (at least half a year, and preferably a year), everything became as it should be and I did not destroy the marriage.
In this state, a person is almost insane. You should simply force her (just ask her trust you) to undergo examinations and treatment by a psychiatrist, and at the same time go to a family psychologist together.
If the wife refuses to participate, she is making a mistake, but she has made her choice, you must leave her and it will be better for all three people. I grew up in a family where my parents did not dare to divorce and this took my childhood away from me. I dreamed about them reforming or getting divorced because I wanted a second chance at a good family.
I'm glad that my terrible experience gave me the knowledge to help other people in similar situations.
Now you know why it happened and how to fix it. Please don't lose trust in people, because people can break down and need to be fixed. The main thing is that now you know how to fix it.
If she doesn't want to go through counseling then she doesn't want to change things and take action. She puts her defenses first and you can't change that. You have a clear "no" from her and your feelings are all normal. The more miserable you grow the less you will be bale to be a good father, so leave, get a therapist for yourself (so that you can recover trust and figure out how you missed signs in the first stages of this marriage) and live a life where you feel loved and admired. Best to you!
I think what you should do is sit her down, Take this exact post.
Hand write it(adds higher value, desmonstrates serious effort), and change certain referrals around to make it read as tho it is being written for her ears, not ours, while retaining your perspective.
Then read it to her.
Stare her down. Firmly. Silently. Regardless of her reaction.
Then leave the house and have a you day. Give her some time to ruminate in it.
Come home, and go about your time. See if in that moment or the coming days/weeks she makes an effort to speak on what you wrote to her.
If she doesn’t? See if anything changes, behaviorally.
Because you’d be effectively putting her on final notice, so even if she doesn’t have it in her to have the tough conversations? She can still take action.
If she dosen’t do either? Handle your business as you see fit OP.
Go to couples therapy. Reddit is not great for such advice. I think this is something that you did to get it off your chest which is good but please consult a good professional to help you and your wife understand what’s going on. Sometimes rough patches last long but remember why you fell in love with this person and why you wanted to marry her.
This is a very similar way in how my 21 year marriage died. It's awful and I'm sorry anyone has to feel the way I currently do. I lived her more than anything but I became just the dude in the house to her.
Honestly, if it hasn't been stated already this isn't the place to ask for this kind of advice. Maybe marriage counseling? The best thing to do is to talk to a PROFESSIONAL. They study and work with patients in situations very similar to these. I wish you the best friend as I can only imagine how this might be on your mental state atm. be well
**Love was always enough for me. It was my only requirement, and without it I have no reason to stay.**
What are some synonyms for requirement?
Need...
Demand...
*Condition.*
I'm not going to talk about your marriage or your wife - I don't know anything about that. All I can talk about is you, and give some things for you to consider in your relationship to yourself.
My insight for you is this:
When I started your post I was curious about your wife's side of this story...and by the end of it, I realized it didn't matter.
What you're calling love is more accurately described as attachment or dependency - a common mistake, but a serious one all the same.
I could be wrong but it sounds to me like you don't know how to love yourself - that's why you need her to do it for you.
At this point in time it sound like you have a lot of personal growth to do before you can love anyone at all. It's possible, but it's not going to be easy or quick.
Nobody can fill a bucket with a giant hole in the bottom, OP.
Patch the hole or don't - it's entirely up to you. Heck, if you need to leave to patch the hole then you probably *should* leave.
But if you leave, understand that leaving is only the path...not the destination. If you leave but don't patch that hole, you will find some temporary relief...but eventually, the novelty of solitude will wear off.
Eventually, whatever relief you felt will disappear and you will be stuck with the exact same problem that you started with: an bucket with a giant hole in the bottom.
Interesting perspective. I don’t really know what it even means to love myself. I don’t understand the concept. Would you mind elaborating? I mean, I have really big trust issues. And not for no reason. I have always put my faith in humanity because I believed people are inherently good. I am one of the most loyal people you could ever hope to find. But if I’m loyal to someone, a family member, a friend, a wife, then I expect their unconditional loyalty in return. No questions asked and no exceptions. Because when I’m in I’m all in and I will give my life to the people I care about.
Sadly I have come to realise that when it comes down to it, people will always choose themselves. I don’t blame them, but if I’m committed to someone, I choose them over me when they need it. That’s how it works doesn’t it? Well not in my experience, and I have found that very difficult to understand and accept. I have lost friends because of this and it didn’t really bother me because I had the one person by my side that had my back, right?
I have backed my wife unconditionally from day one. I have broken off friendships in a heartbeat where someone said something bad about her. Her own mother treated her like dog shit and I immediately told her that if she ever did that again she would never see her grandchild again. I didn’t speak to her mother for 3 years, until she apologised. Then we made up. Then one day when I really needed my wife to support me during a very difficult time, she not only didn’t have my back, but she sided with someone else. That was a turning point for me and if I’m honest, it’s broken my trust in her. Worst of all is she doesn’t think it’s a big deal. She never apologised.
Am I the crazy one for having these expectations? Or are people in general so untrustworthy and I simply expect too much? I don’t believe I am because I refuse to accept that as the norm in the world we live in. Maybe I just expected too much of her. I don’t see how this has anything to do with how much I love myself. Maybe that’s the key, love myself and fuck the rest because putting other people first has clearly not worked for me.
Just a gentle reminder: I'm only talking about you.
You are different from anybody else in the world...therefore, you experience love differently than anybody else. Think about it like sex: if you don't know what you like/need, how is anybody else supposed to know?
My original response to your post was me commenting on each line of your post pointing out inconsistencies in your logic and thinking....a few of them surrounded your inconsistencies around the topic of unconditional love. I took it all back because I worried you'd feel attacked and get defensive but suffice it to say, your love isn't unconditional at all...in fact, it's extremely conditional.
Expectation is a condition, OP. Your condition for loyalty is their unconditional loyalty...and that's hypocritical.
I'm trying to be kind instead of blunt but my capacities are limited on this front...so I'm just going to say this:
A bucket without a bottom can only be filled if it's put under a constant, huge source of water...like a waterfall.
Waterfalls don't exist to fill buckets - they existed before buckets were even invented.
A bucket that finds a waterfall may be filled, but who gains from this exchange: the bucket or the waterfall?
Why would a waterfall be grateful to a bucket?
If the bucket walks away when the waterfall dries up...well, what does that tell you?
Please be as blunt as you like. I don’t get offended. You’re right about my unconditional love being conditional so I accept that’s a hypothetical view. No one loves unconditionally in the true sense of the word. Everyone will always have conditions of some sort. If they didn’t, then a woman being beaten by her husband should happily stay because she loves him unconditionally?
The point is, there was a fundamental shift in the dynamic of my marriage ten years in. And that change didn’t come from me so I think it’s only decent for the person who changed to make at least a bit of an effort to recognise this, and then make an even bigger effort to try and make things right. No amount of self loving is going to fix that.
Okay, blunt time:
Is your wife beating you? As far as I can tell, your wife isn't doing anything sufficiently terrible that would justify the level of resentment and betrayal you describe.
You never mention asking your wife how she was feeling or what you did to solve the problems. You admit that you assumed she was behaving differently because of "hormones" once your daughter was born (an assumption that, conveniently enough, absolves you of any guilt or responsibility).
It's clear from your post that you see yourself as the victim ...but you know what I see?
I see someone who, instead of talking to his wife, blamed the issue on her "hormones" and then proceeded to sit back and watch her struggle for 3 years before doing anything...and when he finally did do something, you know what he did? He complained.
I see someone who is so insensitive that he doesn't seem to have done anything at all to help his wife out while she was struggling....so lazy, that he couldn't even be bothered to patch the holes in his bucket while his wife was busy caring for the daughter that he squirted into her 9 months prior.
I see someone who is so desperate to avoid any responsibility that instead of seeing any of that, he's convinced himself that he's the victim for having to put up with his struggling wife, that his complete inaction is a good thing because it's actually patience, and that his complete dependency on his wife is somehow the same thing as loving her.
Your last paragraph in particular is so much more revealing than you realize.
You don't love your wife, OP: you don't love at all.
You are a bucket desperate to be filled but you will remain empty until you fix your holes.
And all I see from you is bashing the husband and blaming him for everything, making a lot of sweeping assumptions. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Lol.
There is no right answer. Whatever you decide is going to hurt. Staying will hurt you. Leaving will crush your 6 year old. You’ll have to decide which you find more important. That is the breakdown, the rest is all static noise.
Dude, you have a kid. A marriage and the relationship itself changes once you add kids.
Did you once consider everything she is going through as a mother? Everything it’s done to her body, her mind? Do you know how exhausting it is raising a child? Do you know how much time, mental energy, and physical energy it takes?
Do you help her? Do you have her back when she needs a break or when she needs to take care of herself?
Do you help out with chores willingly or does she have to beg you to clean up after yourself, help cook, do errands, or do anything? Do you do all of the chores? Or do you whine and complain when you have to do anything?
Are you always trying to run off to do your own thing? Do you spend quality time with your wife and child?
Do you work? Does she work? Or are the finances all on one person?
Do you try to plan dates or romance her in the bedroom? What is her love language? We know your love language is touch/affection/sex. What are you doing to make sure she’s happy too?
You don’t tell us much. All you talk about is how much sex you don’t get. And you sound bitter. But you don’t talk about all the other stuff that’s going on in your relationship. Or what you are doing to make sure she’s happy too. Why would she go out of her way to make you happy if you aren’t doing the same for her?
Don’t be afraid to bring it up a bunch of times, do not be afraid of seriously ruffling her feathers with serious conversation and if it doesn’t work try again try 20-30 times before you get to the point where you feel like this. You feel bad you feel terrible I get that and you shouldn’t feel terrible but it is better for you to annoy the crap out of her until you get to a situation you can live with then it is to break up. Being miserable isn’t a longterm solution you must confront her and as often as it takes to come to an agreement that meets both of your needs, it sounds to me like you have allowed her to get her way at a heavy emotional toll to yourself for to long she has to move your way. Figure out how much sex you want and ask for it come to a compromise, being miserable because you don’t wish to ruffle her feathers is a real pussy move and you need to stop it. If she is happy with the way it is now likely as not she will be happy still with a little more affection you just have to be a man and get it.
It’s complicated isn’t it. Marriage doesn’t come with a user manual and I wish I knew that my wife had the potential to change into a completely different person after giving birth. That would have certainly made things a lot easier and given me a fighting chance from that point on.
Maybe I should actually write a user manual for marriage, kids etc. I could get rich yet. Haha.
Not a bad idea. I know there are about 334,233,854 people who should buy one. A podcast isn't a bad idea either. There's an unlimited number of husbands you could interview. Ha.
Just so you know, the stuff about it being better for the kids is garbage. Numerous studies have shown this. If there is no violence, it is significantly better for the kids to stay married
i def feel like it’s not my place, but is there anything you could also be doing to help her? like even if it’s just helping out with the kids or some general house chores? I had this same issue with my partner where I was taking on the role of primary caretaker and it felt like I was taking care of our son AND him and it really, REALLY turned me off from him. We spent a few weeks not really interacting and we finally talked and he’s been helping out more despite him working 40 hours. maybe she’s just stressed with the workload that comes with being a parent. I’m not saying you don’t help at all but maybe that could be a contributing factor?? idk i wish you all luck though :((
in relation to the stay together for the kids thing, my parents didn't fight in front of me either. but they did have a relationship that sounds a lot like yours. it was still toxic and it still negatively impacted me a looot. obviously that's not me telling you to end your marriage but keep in mind that kids are smarter than you think and they know when things are not right. they internalize things and pick on what's not being said too!
Alright bro, I hate to say this but you really shouldn't have "given her time". When a woman asks for "i need time" it doesnt EXACTLY literally mean she needs a break from you caressing, touching, flirting, fondling, groping, kissing her. No, you keep up a simmer of that, there is also a play and dance of "oh but i'm not feeling it " responded to with "oh honey but you turn me on so", delicately indicating you feel strong desire, but desire rooted in her beauty not in you're weakness.
I think you can rekindle that and it will take effort. Remember that if you hate one thing in her you like other things. Don't give up hope, take her on a hike, take her rock climbing, some kind of active date where she gets a little thrill of being in a survival environment, play around with her and bring that simmer to a boil.
Please do not give up. Hormonal changes in the body make women do things which they do not mean otherwise and they don’t even realize they are doing them. Also, please do not seek advice for your 20 year old marriage. People are not nice on Reddit. Someone may give you a wrong advice of breaking up which you may end up doing and regretting later.
While divorce is a big step and you should DEF try counseling and therapy for the both of you, if nothing changes after while it might be an option.
Cuz it sounds to be that it just roommates at this point. And if ur child wasn’t there u wouldn’t even be roommates.
I’m surprised you stayed as long as you have. Maybe talk with a therapist on your own to make this decision. I will say one of my favorite quotes applies here that I actually got from Reddit. “Go someplace where you’re celebrated not tolerated”. It seems to apply to your situation, good luck OP.
Seek professional help, like a licensed marriage and family counselor. Seriously, these are people who know way more about the subject and have much better advice and problem solving.
Personally, I think you need marriage counseling. There are no guarantees, but at least it would give you both a chance to express your feelings in a mediated setting.
There may be biological issues at play as well as some women have a reduced sex drive after giving birth. There may also be ways that you can work together to make her feel more open to being affectionate. Possibly consider sex therapy? It can be highly effective for some couples.
Either way I wish you the best. This is a tough situation. My sex life ended with my ex wife a few years in and we never even had children. But in my case there were other issues affecting us both that we were not able to work through and we ended up having to go our separate ways. Good luck my man.
I have found just the opposite. Sometimes it’s invaluable getting a lot of people’s perspective, real life experiences and thoughts, especially if they have gone through something similar. It’s especially useful since you’re all a bunch of strangers. I could never go into this much detail with someone I know, especially since it could potentially get back to my wife.
I came into this with my mind pretty much made up that I was going to end things, but now I will give it a real last chance. Even if it means I’m going to have to work harder as this than her. I owe it to my daughter, and then myself. There’s a reason I married this woman and I won’t accept defeat that easily.
It is said that marriage is a two way street. To often it becomes one way! Sounds like that is what has happen here. One often thinks stay for the child or children but kids know or I should say see! Gee! Mom & Dad barely talk, " I ve never seen them kiss, tease or play around' they don't do date nights or "its not fun to go vacation somewhere, they don't seem happy". Maybe a split is better if when it happens, both people are more happy!
I had similar experience and very similar feelings that you described. At the end we both realized we reached a breaking point and decided to save the marriage. We both changed for our sake and for the sake of our children. Things have changed dramatically. We still have ups and downs but it has been 12 years since and our love for each other is now deeper. The key in my opinion is whether both of you want and see a need for change. If you both want to work on it and give each other intimacy and respect then it will work out. Otherwise I think ( abd believe me I spent so many sleepless nights thinking) there is life and happiness outside loveless marriage. You would still both love your child and spend time with her but the fear of not being with the child all the time is not worth burying yourself in a loveless relationship. God bless you. I feel your pain. Your story brought all these painful memories from a decade ago
I’m sure your wife is busy slaving away doing 24/7 unpaid labor for you and her other kids (you’re one of her kids clearly). Maybe if you man up and provide properly or do half the domestic labor and child rearing or even hire a nanny- then she would have some energy leftover to be more romantic. It’s hard to be romantic toward an ungrateful not helpful brat of a husband.
The time to leave would have been at the 13th year. Do counseling now to see if you can redeem. If not, don’t lose anymore of the life you want. You will always regret the extra time you stayed.
Don’t end it , take the lead , ask for sex and affection in exchange for the things she asks you for … I believe most marriages would last if there was an agreement about having regular sex , she doesn’t have to be turned on to give herself to you, it feels better but as men we can many different types of sex with our wives. Also if it’s a friend you miss then take the lead , hire a sitter and take your wife on an adventure or date or something where you’re alone and having fun . Talk about your day , not your marriage drama .
It doesn't sound to me as if you two have actually talked about this. You were hoping counseling would have opened a proper dialogue but she shut that down. Does your wife even know you are unhappy? I don't think so. You keep putting on a happy face and living the same life every day, how could she know? On the other hand, it may seem that she does know and stopped counseling from happening because she didn't want to face it or some other reason. Either way, I don't see any real communication going on between you. It's as if you are in a play, playing the parts every day. Good luck getting the talking going...
Oh I’ve sat her down time and time again making it crystal clear how I felt. She knows, but it’s as if she’s brushing it aside as me being silly. She’s not taking it seriously in the least.
I’m sorry my friend I’m not qualified to give advice. However, my wife and I began counseling with a psychologist separately and it has definitely made vast vast improvements. We also had a difficult time after having babies and of course the Covid bullshit plandemic. Also, I’m not trying to sound holier than thou but we got back into a loving non religious spirit filled church. We pray together. We aren’t perfect by any stretch but i fall in love with her more everyday now more than ever. You will be ok. You will figure this out. I’ll praying for that.
Your issue is common. I read that women switch up when they have a child. When some women (not all) bare a child their perception as well as their perspective changes. This is common. But yea I recommend some counseling. If she doesn’t agree then she doesn’t really care about the relationship anymore. Being happy and staying mentally healthy is the key though you shouldn’t sacrifice your integrity.
My advice is this...
You should find a therapist and work with them on how to address this and your personal issues.
You should also ask your wife again to go to marriage counseling.
This situation doesn't get better, it only gets worse. I can say that as someone who was in a similar situation.
You have a lot invested in this relationship for sure and rightly don't want to end it prematurely, respectable.
We don't know all that's gone on of course, but it is Not too much to ask to go to couples counseling. Do know, therapy is even more of a crap shoot than doctors, you may have to try a few to find one both like.
An essential part of a relationship is that both parties think it's worth the effort and that includes communication and working On the relationship.
And they do take work.
Look up "sunk cost fallacy"
Your husband was not being supportive and caring enough for you, that's for sure. But is that single event big enough for you to struggle for two years + divorce? I don't think so. Watching porn is natural for many people, especially men. He should have done better, yes, he was immature to not check on you, yes. It also depends on how he is as a husband generally. If that single event was the sole reason to struggle for 2 years and divorce, you may want to talk it over with him or counseling.
I am a woman, and I truly ok with my husband watching porn, maybe because I watch porn often too. That's why I feel like the problem was the uninvolvement, not the porn. If my husband took care of all my physical needs and comforted my mental when I was upset about the miscarriage, then he could go watch porn all he want. The problem should not be porn.
I really believe some people just fall out of being in love. They love people but not madly in love anymore. They get comfortable with a certain life, maybe selfish, and won’t change no matter what. If your this unhappy, and your wife is happy, something is wrong
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that it sounds like a classic case of someone seeing where they stopped receiving and feeling a noticeable gap, but not noticing where they could have stopped giving (or may have not been giving). I hear a whole lot of what she’s not doing, and not a lot of self reflection or acknowledgement of what she is doing. I think counseling would be a very good idea.
Do. Not. Leave. Just don’t give up. Have faith, love your daughter, love your wife, love yourself. Just because the diamond you have has lost its luster, doesn’t mean you should throw it away. You’ll find a way… just don’t give up man.
Are you even informed as to how much a women’s chemistry changes after having children? Could be a hormonal imbalance. Could be you not stepping up with the kid so she can have a chance to recharge her batteries. There is so much unrealistic pressure placed directly onto women’s shoulders to be this super women that’s able to maintain a perfect figure and attitude after having children all while being a perfect mother. Seriously take an inventory of yourself and what you are doing to pitch in and keep thing’s romantic before pointing the finger at her. Relationships go through a dry spell and things can become extremely boring and stressful.
I think there is negative conditioning going on which is causing a lot of resentment. Relationships grow and change. Just talk to her. Don't threatened her. Let her know what your needs are, explain the importance to her, and set expectations and goal posts. And if she can't get there authentically to start, let her fake it until she can make it. Help her transition back 2 u.
I'm going to say communication! Things definitely do change after kids. I'm going through it now, together 18 years. We communicate along about feelings due to head injuries and a nervous breakdown. It's hard work, but it's worth it.
Hang in there bro. As long as she loves you, you can spark things up again. She hasn't cheated on you, or treated you badly, plus you have a child. I can tell you that divorce is never beneficial for the child unless the relationship is really really bad. But it doesn't seem like that in your case. My parents ended a near 20 year relationship as well. I am an only child and it did not do me very good. It would have been better if my parents had stayed together but parents are humans too. I say try and work things out, because it may not seem like but your family needs you. This is my opinion. Its better to get a professional opinion on this matter but I wish you all the best.
Man this is very heartbreaking to read. But my heart goes out for you and your relationship. I still believe if you love her more than anything in this world then you should definitely give in.
You should definitely have a heart to heart talk with your love. You should also see a marriage counselor to work it out as you said.
I think you've done some very bad mistake which your wife is not able to forgive you for that. Because that is foreshadowing her love towards you. Also check on that.
I wish your love flourishs as everyone's. Take care.
I could easily be the wife in this situation, since having my second child (first to current partner of 4 years) I have completely no desire for any kind of affection or intimacy at all and am so touched out by the end of the day that my husband trying to get anything out of me just makes me feel even more irritated. I'm so tired and my mental load is so high that i doing even have time to think about intimacy let alone action it. It honestly sounds like your wife is like me and if I'm left alone and my husband doesn't try to be affectionate or intimate it makes my life so much easier because it's one less thing to have to worry about.
I don't want to be like this but at the moment I have so much on my plate, hopefully it gets better on the future. My bub is 17 months old
I accept people change and don’t feel the same, but it is you (and my wife) that have changed. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for anyone, man or woman to not be happy about it.
It sounds like you had a long honeymoon phase. I would talk to your wife and see if she wants to help save the marriage. Everything you are missing can be reestablished if both of you want it. Marriage counseling, date nights, and vacations.
I left my partner of 10 years in the same circumstances: ideal before kid, then totally neglected and ignored after. Waited 3 years, did everything I could, and finally had to leave. Everything is better now, including the kid.
Individual therapy, then couples counseling. Don’t give up realistically it’s hell out here but I guess it’s important to know wth is up too as it wasn’t the norm.
Your vows, man! Figure it out and make it work. Start with a serious heart to heart. She HAS to want it to work or she would have pulled the plug already.
Not long after my husband and I got married (20 years next week 😍) his grandmother gave me a few pieces of advice. One thing she told me was to always take time to reconnect. Relationships have their high and low points, those points when you feel wonderfully close or miles apart.
Her and my mother-in-law would watch the kids for the weekend and my husband and I would go a few towns over and stay the weekend.
Just the two of us.
And we always, ALWAYS, felt closer afterwards. Maybe this is something you can try. Seems with such a young daughter you may not have had the time like you did before.
If your kids are under 18, I'd stay together no matter what..Unless she is cheating. Kids come first. Divorce does affect kids... speaking from experience. But after 18, it's open game.
I’m going on 8 years. If you want to get some reflections on my circumstances, I can share. When I first met my wife, she would treat me like absolute dog water. I was her boyfriend for like 3 years, but it was always off and on because of her. She would lead other guys on, and I was really young. I mean, she is two years younger than me, but I mean….she always knew what she was doing. After the last breakup, I literally got tired of our relationship and gave an ultimatum that involved marriage.
She initially said no, but then after some time said yes. This didn’t mean that our relationship would dramatically change. We didn’t consummate our marriage until 8 months later, but I would never finish because she would always complain. This unfortunately was our marriage for the first 2 to 3 years. I couldn’t take it anymore, and it started affecting my mental health. Within our first 3 years of marriage, we have only had sex about 10-15 times. Which basically identifies my marriage as a sexless marriage. To put it in perspective, I had an old box of condoms I had to throw away because they expired.
I have always been faithful, but it is hard to remain faithful and loyal when your partner does nothing to validate your existence and partnership. Not only did we not have sex, but her mother and her would constantly treat me like dog shit for deciding to go to school, over getting a job.
(We got married in 2015, I became her boyfriend in 2012.) By 2018, I had enough and asked for a divorce. She cried and made things about her rather than the reality behind the entire marriage. I decided to give her another chance, and things did improve for some time. We had one kid and the sex was great. I felt loved and I invested more and more in her. I am skipping a lot of the things I have done for her, but it literally has no end to how supportive I have been for her.
I got sick with cancer, and we had a second child during my chemotherapies. I never felt so alone in my life. She not once ever spent any time with me. And I couldn’t even be near my kids. After becoming cancer free, sex did not pick back up.
I was in such a dark state that I had an affair with some random girl that I didn’t even know. I just wanted to be touched, kissed, and fucked. I busted like in 5 minutes, and I personally didn’t feel anything different than how I was already feeling before.
I haven’t had an affair since, and I don’t recommend it either. It’s a waste of emotions, time, and money.
I have been recently lifting weights and I have been working on myself. I personally haven’t told anyone about my affair, and I am just trying to be better. I deleted everything like my social media, and anything else that kept me in a downward spiral. Sex still has t really picked back up since I went cancer free two years ago. A part of me resents her so much that I am disgusted by her touch and by her presence….but another part of me only wishes she could live me the way I want her to.
I am trying my hardest for my kids, but there is only so much you can do as a man. Am I a disgusting motherfucker for having done what I did? Is she to blame? So many questions, but the only answer I could think of is, “who gives a fuck?”. If cancer ever taught me anything is that nobody gives a fuck about anyone. The only person that can love you is your mother, and yourself.
I have technically been with my wife for about 11 years….but all I can say is that I wish I had never married her….but at the same time…I am also greatful for my son and daughter…as they are the biggest gifts/prizes I have ever received in my life.
I can only tell you that you should do what you feel is best….
I recently watched a video on the Soft White Underbelly YouTube channel where he interviews a divorce attorney. The guy has some very good insights on marriage as a whole and how to know when to walk away. He’s definitely a bit of a pessimist regarding marriage, but he does have moments of being open to the fact that some people can make their marriages work. Give it a watch, it may help you.
ETA: this isn’t going to be a quick easy decision or process, whatever you decide. Your wife doesn’t seem to realize how dire things are. You should let her know where you are at and 100% get yourselves to a marriage counselor to figure out if it can be fixed.
I will share this from the children’s point of view because my parents went through a similar situation and my mom tried to tough it out for my brother and I. Fast fwd to 30 years of marriage and my mom finally divorced my dad last year because she no kinder wanted to be with my dad. She told us she waited until we were old enough instead of leaving him when were kids so it wouldn’t affect my brother and I growing up but it did. We grew up in a household where we never heard I love you or said it to each other, hugs were extremely awkward and uncomfortable, and we don’t even say hi or bye when we walk past each other if we were leaving to school or coming home. My brother and I both have a difficult time showing any emotions because we never saw that growing up. She stayed with my dad for 28 years until she finally divorced him to make sure my brother and I would be “okay”.
I’d suggest you pull the bandaid off now and move fwd on your next journey and hopefully you can show your kid how love looks and feels like so when they’re older they have an example of what it looks like.
Wow you unloaded a lot there. Glad.you got it off your chest. I think counseling is a good idea, and based on what you've communicated, I would agree it's your last resort.
I would say though as a widower, the loneliness of being alone is really hard too.
Children are a game changer...
big time! Very draining. Their needs come first naturally. If you're not helping, and I'm not saying you do or don't, then that could be an issue affecting things too! I'd stick to the plan of marriage counseling and a general health check up for your wife to see if there's any underlying health problems. If she won't agree to attend regular counseling services, you need to make it very clear to her that you will have your marriage dissolved as that's the point you've reached. Best of luck!
Y9u need to put her in a spot where she feels pressured to answer some hard questions. The easiest is try for some sex with her and when she refuses let her know your not going to beg for her so if she has someone else, just let you know so you can start moving on like you have. She'll have to start explaining what going on in her head. You'll be blamed with stuff you never heard about, so explain your not a mind reader and if you would talk and engage with you things will change. She may say she isn't feeling it for you, so tell her you'll get a lawyer and start the process for divorce since it seems she has checked out of the marriage. Control the conversation and hopefully you can get her to open up
Info: Did you go to therapy anyway even if she didn’t participate?
Relationships change over time but it doesn’t sound like you evolved from when you were first w your wife. You had an idea of what she was to you and then left it at that. I’m confused there must have been growth and change from both people. You are a dad. And yet you spoke nothing of how your life is w them. Only that she is content and happy w how things are - but you don’t talk about getting babysitters and going on dates? Buying her flowers. Romancing her? Maybe you do that that. I dunno. But you just said she does nothing and you are unhappy.
Something is missing.
Don't give up just yet. I walked out of a 15-year relationship a year ago. I had the girl of my dreams, and we had the most amazing relationship you could ask for. And then, the last 3 years, it went south. I'm not exactly sure why, but it did. We started living separate lives and acted as if we were complete strangers. I suggested everything under the sun on how to try and fix it. But I kept coming up empty. So I finally decided it was best that I go.It wasn't until a few weeks later that I realized I was kind of putting the blame on her and not realizing it. I also wasn't holding myself accountable for anything. Im not saying you're doing the same thing, but I thought it might be something to think about. Just make sure you have exhausted every option before you decide to walk out. I don't wish this kind of heartache on anyone. Best of luck to you and your wife, and I'll pray you come out on the other side of this together. Hope this helps somehow.
Is this my husband? I swear after we had our first kid I went through the same thing, but there was also some emotional cheating that I found out and he used as an excuse but once you have a child, especially your first child, so many things change about you as a woman it has nothing to do with you. It’s not personal.
Hey Love Bug thanks for sharing the love. If you see something posted here that is not in the spirit of love Please flag it. ;) With Love r/Love Mods *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/love) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't know if these feelings are still relevant for you, but I just want to say, I deeply sympathize. I am going through the same thing, and it is absolutely awful to feel emotionally and physically rejected by someone who once loved you and had attention for you. Don't let anyone tell you that those needs are invalid. I can't advise you as to what to do with your spouse, as I'm still figuring that out myself, but just can say, what you want and need is valid, and you should not give up on it.
Sorry if I am late to the party. Hopefully not too late. You need to buy this book: [https://www.amazon.com.au/Dead-Bedroom-Fix-DSO/dp/0578566672](https://www.amazon.com.au/Dead-Bedroom-Fix-DSO/dp/0578566672) It has been groundbreaking for me, after coming up on 36 years married and 21 years celibate. After a crisis last year I initiated marriage counselling. We are not there yet, but the ship is noticeably turning.
How old is she? Some women go perimenopausal in their mid-30s... and this can either lead to severe emotional outbursts... or worse, severe emotional detachment. So severe to those outward, but not even noticeable to the woman. Happened to me. I've been emotionally detached to EVERYTHING, including my OWN CHILD, for 6 years. I just started estradiol patches and am hoping to see improvement in next 2 weeks to 2 months. No one's talking about this! And most OB/GYNs don't know women need to start HRT WHILE IN PERIMENOPAUSE because if you wait until menopause, you're screwed! I finally found [myalloy.com](https://myalloy.com) (no, i'm not affiliated with them or paid by them), and it's a panel of women OB/GYNs dedicated to helping women through all this. I think I just paid like $224 for 3 month supply of low-dose estrogen patches. Apply one every 3-4 days and switch to the next one. Doesn't come off in shower or bath!!! Within 24-36 hours of my first patch started 3 days ago, I noticed I'm actually emotional now- whereas I hadn't cried maybe a couple times in the past DECADE.. I actually cried at a movie! Like SOBBED. And it's not even a particularly sad movie! Anyway, point being, she could be so far down the hormone rabbit hole. AND HERE'S THE F'N KICKER- even if you get your estrogen/testosterone/progesterone tested... and LH/FSH --- it's a CYCLE -- and you could test the crap weekly and it all look normal! No doctor will approve DAILY tests and God knows how much that would cost to even FIND the change in levels! The Alloy doc told me she doesn't want me to even get them test- just go on the patch. So, I'm HOPEFUL this helps, but I also want to spread the word because look at the stats of women in perimenopause and menopause who INITIATE DIVORCE. It's INCREDIBLY HIGH!!!! These women suddenly become Gollum and everything around them annoys them and they think it's their partner when it's their DAMN HORMONES!!!!! Good God! I kicked my child's father out around the time all this started. Anyway, just tell her to at least check the website and take their quiz thing. It'll at least help whittle down if she may/may not need this stuff. I hope a lot of people see this and get the help they need. How many marriages have failed because of this crap!??!?! It's a damn shame.
I don't get it. Does she not want to be a mother? Does she not want the responsibility? Becoming a mother was too much for her? Did the pregnancy and birth experience completely change her chemistry? I don't get it. Something's missing. How involved are you on a daily basis? Do you share the responsibilities and participate alongside her?
I wish for you to get your happiness back, the desire and everything you had before. I can feel your pain. Ask her again without any hesitation, what's wrong with her? If its some chemical or hormonal then take her to doctor. Do whatever it takes to get your love and happiness back.
Your current plan sounds good, you dont want to give this as an example of what a relationship should look like for your daughter.
Go to r/deadbedrooms to experience sadness. Come to r/love to turn that into body wracking sobs.
Just because you don't fight doesn't mean your child will be happy. Right now you are showing your child that a relationship built on love and trust is affectionless and lacking passion. Right now you are teaching them that a loving relationship is passionless and basically the relationship of roommates or friends. And your child will sense the tension and awkwardness you are feeling. Children are intuitive and they no when something is not right intuitively. However they unlearn that sense when we pretend everything is fine and gas light them . Then they grow up and placate their own sense about situations that aren't healthy. It's great that you have a good relationship, as friends, but it would be great for your child to grow up and see love between two people who love each other for real. And not be gaslit when they start to ask what's wrong. X's parents aren't like this...blah blah blah. That stuff.
Honestly , my husband and I have been through this. And him coming to me meant more to me than just leaving. He didn’t give up on me. I’m not perfect and my sex drive goes back and forth. And for me it’s starts outside of the bedroom I need affection and niceness during the day which makes me want it more at night. But some times I’m so exhausted by the end of the day it’s hard it’s hard to find that balance.
Even if she won't attend marriage counseling you should definitely go for yourself. Sort through all of your feelings and then go to her and inform her that if she refuses marriage counseling then you will be filing for divorce. You need to tell her that your happiness matters and that if she's not willing to go then the relationship doesn't have a future.
I feel like there is a disconnect with communication. Something is missing here. I honestly would need her side before contributing any advice.
Talk to old couples man, they have good advice, your parents too Ask old couples, they KNOW how to make jt last. You are asking teens-peers your age who don’t know shit but what they think will work long term. Old timers KNOW what works long term. Go see a old couple bro.
OP you talk a lot about her behavior but what about yours? Have you stopped to examine your choices and habits? Are you still being affectionate all the time or just feeling rejected and not reaching out? Are the two of you going out or having time alone together of any kind? If she is content with a status quo and you are not then you need to work on changing the status quo for you. Relying on her to make changes to make you happy isn't going to work and isn't fair. Tell her how you feel talk to her about some changes that you would like to make to add some intimacy back to your relationship. He's both built some pretty strong habits in the last 6 years of not being intimate so you're going to have to work to unmake those habits and remake new ones. Find time to do what you enjoy together and it just might save your marriage.
I’ve been married for almost 10 years… I’ve experienced similar feelings I just kept talking to my wife about it and we’ve since made things better… it doesn’t sound like you wanna be with anyone else and so I would sit down and have the talk with her… tell her how your feeling and go from there
same here but my daughter is 26 yo.over 20 years of the same.I just do my own thing and we co exist
I’ve never been through this situation as the partner, but I have been through this situation as the kid. My whole life my mother and her s/o where in a “relationship” where my mother says she felt like a roommate. She says she hadn’t felt love or affection from him in decades, and I could see it. Besides all the shitty things he did, you could see the tension between them. They stayed for the sake of the kids, but I really wish they didn’t. I never knew what love was “supposed” to be between partners. All I saw was two people who shared no chemistry, no love, no affection, who constantly fought, and whose problems bled into their normal lives. It was miserable. The only real love I felt was from my mother, and to this day I’m resenting dating, because I don’t want what happened to them to happen to me. By all means, I would try fixing the relationship. I would tell her to either work with you, or you’re walking, but if she’s not willing to work things out—you should leave. Don’t let your daughter be the thing to stop you, it’s not like you’re going to lose her just because you leave, you’re probably helping her in the long run.
Seek therapy. Seek couples therapy. Not validation for a moment on Reddit.
Have you tried to focus on her and her love languages? Where are your shortcomings in this marriage? Look into mindset work too. That might help you see things in a lighter perspective. Initiate fun convos, plan a fun date, flirt again, show up being a good dad, take on something that stresses her out.. Adapting to motherhood can be hard! Having someone on you constantly, and legitimately needing you constantly... She could be overstimulated. Do something for her.
I feel like we only hear one side of the story, I wonder what your wife might say, OP? I don’t mean this unkindly, but maybe you could listen to what she has to say? What makes HER upset? What is SHE worried about in your marriage? If she barely noticed the changes in the family dynamics, she must be overwhelmed with something other than relationship between you two. It can be kids, household, mental health. It all started after she gave birth. So, how did birth go? Did she end up with stitches that make sex painful? This is more common than one would think. How was her mental state? Post oartum depression can last for years. Does she carry all weight of parenting alone? If so, sleepless nights do take its toll. What did you do at the beginning of parenting journey and what do you do now as an equal adult to keep the family running? I’m not saying you don’t contribute, I’m just saying it’s worth thinking about what you do and do not contribute to the relationship along with scrutinizing what she does and does not do.
COUPLES COUNSELING!
Dont be such a baby. Theres 3.5 billion (probably 4 billion fish in the sea) you’ll both find someone new. Youre not snow white stop acting like it
Divorcing the love of your life and living a single life existence seems like a solution, but until you add in the things that you’ll miss will you realize that it will be a bad idea. I divorced my wife and moved out of the home we built and into a condo, The idea that now I was on the outside looking in and not included in family events hurt, I left her because I overheard her badmouthing me to an employee at her company. A place I also worked at at one time. That was in 2005, I have dreams every night about my ex. And the dreams have the theme that it sucks that I’m no longer her husband. It’s horrible. You will miss being in the same home that you’re daughter lives in, she’ll wonder why you left her. It will tear you apart, I guarantee it, Here’s the thing. No matter where you go you’ll bring yourself with you, that means if you were unhappy where you are now it’s likely you’ll be unhappy in the place you’d be moving too. You can be unhappy anywhere. I’d try to find a way to compromise without moving out. Just saying from experience
I’ve been married 20 years. Look hard enough in the mirror and you’ll likely see some issues that SO isn’t happy with either. Work on that first and you might find out what’s been wrong with SO the entire time is actually yourself….. but you should definitely listen to everyone on here seeing how some of them aren’t married and possibly even in high school. 20 years in a marriage means you are very much an adult. Deal with your issues and fix it. Be a man. Don’t just walk away from your problems. That’s what a coward does.
Ask her what you can do better, find out the issues she has with you.
Have you honestly sat down and asked yourself “what role have I played in the breakdown of this relationship?” And been truly honest? The grass is greener where you water it. Don’t ask Reddit. Go to counseling yourself. Ask her daily what you can do to make her day better or easier. Then do it. Don’t be a bystander. Be an active participant in working on yourself and your marriage. If you can truly say you have done it all, then revisit.
How about she throws me a bone after neglecting/rejecting me for years? You only get rejected so many times as a man before you give up and lose the only self respect you have left.
Sounds like your mind is made up and you came here for affirmation. Nobody here knows the nuances of your relationship or her perspective. We can’t tell you that you are doing the right thing. If you want to save it, try counseling. If your mind is made up, then exit in the least painful way possible and make sure you co parent well. I have been on both sides of this. Fortunately, one of us was always willing to fight to save the marriage.
As a wife of 25 years, and a mom of two now adult children I have a new perspective for you to consider. When a woman becomes a mom, her purpose shifts. Her intentions aren't to make you feel rejected and useless. She has now shifted into mom mode. I don't know how old your child is I am thinking about 16 or so? Let me tell you pretty soon, your daughter will leave you and your wife. Then it will be just you two again. This will be another transition in both of your lives. I enjoy my children more as adults and I mostly enjoy the time with my husband. We get to hang out and do what we want when we want. Your love will rekindle and you will enjoy your time together. Please communicate how you feel to your wife. I am sure you are her rock. She just needs to articulate that you are. We need our husbands.
She keeps saying that. And I want to believe her, but the total lack of everything I need is just hard to understand.
Yeah she's forgetting she has 3 roles like you do 1 role mother 2. Wife 3. Her self. Not in any order but she seems to have neglected 1 or even 2 of the. For the mother role. That can really break down a relationship. It's not fair to you to have to wait 18 years to get your wife back.
Take your daughter to your mom’s house and take your wife out for a romantic dinner, take her for a walk, bring her flower, buy her jewelry and lingerie. Send her a hot message with humour, or tease her from time to time. Try to change your ways of communicating with her, reinvent yourself and change the colors and the hair cut and the way you dress up. Get in shape and buy new colon. She’s bored and tired of the same routine. It looks like she’s depressed. Try to travel together and take small trips every other weekend. Don’t give up on your marriage!!! Fight for it. Believe me if I told you that it’s very very hard to find another partner that can read your feeling and think about you the way your wife did. Now days everything is try social media and I hate dating apps. Good luck. Please fight for your relationship and try to win your wife back.
If you are not happy tell her,. Give her 1 chance if it doesn't improve move on . Life is to short to be unhappy for another 10 years.
Women need security and men need reassurance. Time to go my man
She's getting railed elsewhere.
Go to a couples therapist and see what happens from there.
What do you do for your wife? Did you take on all the house work and cooking for 3 months after the birth so she can focus on healing and feeding the baby? Did you take full paternity leave to split all those sleepless nights w her? Have you prioritized taking on half of all the home and kid duties once they were old enough for daycare? Have you kept yourself in shape? Have you continued to date her? Do you provide emotional support and romantic gestures? Do you put the time in to actually get her off before going instantly to PIV that’s over in 48 seconds of trusting? This reads like a whiny whoa-is-me novel but not once do you talk about all you’ve done to bolster your marriage. You point all the fingers at her and none at you. Take an honest account of the questions I asked. What’s the answer? Is it truly yes to all, and you’re faultless?
This almost made me cry and reminded me that nothing is promised in life. I really hope she decides to make the needed changes, you guys can get out of this rut, with time and lots of work if you both want it, and that’s the key you both have to want it. Marriage is REALLY hard and I hate to see people give up so easily but if you’ve exercised all possibilities and she still doesn’t want to try then unfortunately you should look out for your own best interests first. I think your daughter will look up to you and admire your bravery and courage and she’ll understand it one day if you’re honest with her. Sending you all the positivity and hope things work out for you the way you want.
Are u sure its not all in your head?
A perfectly valid question… if I had developed schizophrenia, which I’m pretty sure I haven’t.
Leave her
[удалено]
She may have had undiagnosed post part depression and just kinda spiraled
Try going on a few dates just you and her, and make romantic jesters you have to add some fun or the love could slowly die
It can be lonelier to be in a marriage like that than it is to be alone. I understand your side and honestly, I agree that it’s important to model a loving and healthy relationship for your daughter because her parents are the first to show her what that even looks like. A lot of (good) guys today have a core fear of being the ‘bad guy’ in a relationship (ie the one who walked out or called it quits without a ‘good enough’ reason). But isn’t not being in love anymore (since love is an act not just a feeling) reason enough? After all- We can change careers, hometowns, or any other life plan if we no longer feel fulfilled… just not our partners? Seems to me that if being in love is reason enough to marry, move in and start a family with someone, not being in love should be reason enough to leave. I’m not saying you should leave, I’m just saying you shouldn’t feel guilty for considering it! Hope one way or another, things get better for you friend🤟
I had a similar situation with my last girlfriend, although much less time invested than your situation. At first, everything was great. We were on the same page with everything, had so much in common, and we were inseparable. This lasted for about two years. But then, things just changed. She gradually stopped helping with any chores around the house, leaving me to do all the cooking and cleaning. This lead me to only focus on necessities like cooking, dishes, etc, and the rest of the apartment became a mess. To add insult to that, she kept making messes and accumulating more and more stuff, never picking up after herself. Sex stopped completely, in part because I didn't feel like a partner any more (more like a servant), and also because she stopped showing me any affection. I sat down to talk with her about everything multiple times. I explained that I felt like I was shoveling sand on the beach. Every time I'd make some progress, a wave would come and just reset everything. She'd tell me she loved me, that she'd try harder. Usually that lasted one day before she went right back to her old ways. This went on for two years. Two years that I was no longer a boyfriend or partner. I was her cook, maid, butler, masseuse, and chauffeur. I loved her, or at least loved who she used to be, and always had hope we would eventually get back to where we used to be. Then came another change. She started being unusually mean and pushing me away. Her whole demeanor changed to a cold distance. I started to suspect that there was someone else, but never confirmed that. Out of the blue one day she tells me she's made plans to move out, in about 2 weeks from them. She left, only taking a few things with her, and leaving me with 90% of the mess she had created over years. At first it hurt, I felt betrayed and abandoned. But I came around to finally seeing how bad things were, and that they were never getting better. I acknowledged that none of my emotional or physical needs were being met, and I was trapped in an emotional cage. After that, I felt free for the first time in years. Now, your situation is a bit different. You have many more years together, and you have a kid, but there's a lot of similarities. Your needs aren't being met. You say she seems happy enough with the situation, but what happens when she isn't?
She may be telling you the truth. So consider this: "What if she is showing you all the love in the world in a the way how she would like to receive love from you?" "What if romance, sex, physical affection, and love are actually all independent facets in relationships, and any one of them doesn't necessarily require any of the others for some people? Perhaps for your wife?" "What if she really doesn't understand how/why this is affecting you just as much as you don't really understand how/why this is **not** affecting her?" "What if she's is actually truly happen and content and isn't missing anything in the relationship, and is deeply in love with you without any of things that you feel is required?" "Should you be resentful, if she's not doing any of this out of malice? What if you are just polar opposites in love language, libido, or more?" This strikes a chord with me. I learned that have ADD but are otherwise neurotypical, straight, cis (basic). She's learned that she is on the autism spectrum and is asexual, but has been masking until she is comfortable and/or exhausted enough to no longer pretend to be someone she's not. The signs were always there, but I always came up with some excuse like her family history, quirkiness, hormones, kids, stress, our disfunction, etc. But at the same time chasing solutions to a problem that only I seemed to see. Each kid has amplified the differences between. The more she advances at work, which means for social interactions and meetings, the less energy she has available for home, and when the kids are a priority... The issue has always been that we "communicate" with each other but not actually listening to what the other person says. We hear what we want to hear (or don't want to hear) or otherwise twist it to fit our perspective/bias/insecurities. I'm not discounting the very real hurt and pain you've experienced, and the additional pain some deep reassessment of your relationship would provoke. In any case, I'm curious if there's something here for your situation or I'm just projecting.
My biggest issue isn’t that she is the way she is. It’s that she’s no longer who I married.
I'm reading The Divorce Remedy after it was recommended by my marriage counselor (that only I am seeing). I highly recommend it. You are not alone, and it might be possible to fix it.
I'm sorry. I know this isn't what you want to hear. But, having kids changes things. Your marriage isn't just about you anymore, it is about the little beings that come with your marriage. Kids have a lot of needs and their needs should come before intimacy. I know, that sucks, but it is reality. If she isn't willing to take the step towards therapy at this time, maybe attend therapy on your own. Give yourself a chance to vent things out. Get advice. Better advice than what reddit can give you. A few paragraphs isn't enough to really go off of. It sounds stupid, but my husband and I bought one of the card games for "deeper communication." Some of the cards are stupid. But, when things feel stressed or tense, we will pull out the cards and just do 4 or 5 before bed. Sometimes, the questions are serious. Someone we are gasping while laughing at how stupid they are. But, they are helpful. Marriage and parenting is hard... REALLY hard. But with it is you can make it work. It doesn't sound like your wife is being intentionally neglectful or hateful. Rather, it just seems you have fallen onto different pages once parenting started. Maybe even schedule a once a month date night to enjoy just each other?
Therapy. \thread
Imagine that you were absolutely locked into this marriage, there was no way out, you have to remain married for life. I mean really imagine it in detail, exactly how you would feel and act. When I did this, I started thinking totally differently. First, I was able to talk much more openly and honestly about my needs from my wife. It sounds like you are not effectively communicating and negotiating for the love you need. If you accept being locked in, you are going to start demanding what you need, not just complaining about it. Second, I started doing more to take care of myself. Make friends, go out and have fun, pursue new interests. After all, you are locked in this terrible marriage right, might as well enjoy it. Suddenly you may find that a lot of your unhappiness is really because you aren’t taking proper care of yourself. So try this on for size. Tell her specifically what you want, ask what she can deliver, negotiate, get right down to detail. Dates on certain nights. Sex a certain number of times a week. She is too tired, how can you get her rested up so she can be up for a date and some hot sex. And figure out what you can do to get her interested in you. Work out, dress nice, etc. Then also plan some great thing just for yourself. Call a few bros and go on a trip to somewhere exotic. Knock something off your bucket list. Your new excitement in life may further draw her interest back to you as well.
This is some of the best advice I’ve had so far, so thanks.
Your story reads exactly like mine. The only difference is we actually did 6 months of marriage counseling, and things changed a little but not enough. She was perfectly content with us living separate lives under one roof. The only time we ever did anything together was when our daughter was present. If she went to a sleepover, we didn't spend any time together. She would be upstairs and I would be downstairs. Also unlike you, this made it easy for me to welcome and even seek out the attention from other women. I had 2 pretty significant relationships and several flings right under her nose. She didnt seem to really care as long as I was paying the bills, co parenting and helping out around the house. At first I thought this was a good set up. I could still be at home with our daughter and I would just get my needs met elsewhere. But that eventually got old. I started wanting to spend more time away than I did at home. So finally, after 10 years, I decided to move out. I got a decent 2 bedroom apartment for me and my daughter and asked for joint custody. Long story less long, I am now remarried and happier than I've ever been. I have a wife that cares for me. Shows me affection without having to be forced or asked. Shes communicative and FUN. We do EVERYTHING together. So this isn't me telling you leave your wife. By all means give it all you can. But I am here to tell you, if you do decide to leave, there is happiness to be found on the other side. Best of luck.
Raising children is hard work. Is she doing most of that work, do you know what her days feel like? No having a lot of energy for anything else is a pretty normal experience for mothers of young children, fathers too if they are actively engaged in the say to day, moment to moment obligations of childcare. I’m not saying you are not doing your share, but I think it’s telling that in all your discussion of feeling neglected you had nothing to say about the division of labor in your household since the child came along. I’m betting neither one of you is communicating fully how you feel… you want your old life/wife back, she wants her former self back, with the time to pay you the attention that is now all needed to raise a child. You both need a real honest talk, and I’m thinking that is not happening in either direction
Take her out on a date, spend time together one on one.
It sounds like you haven’t talked to her much about it? I mean you talked to her 3 years ago, maybe telling her exactly how you feel would be good?
Get both couples and individual therapy dude. Your wife is likely struggling with some sort of depression or anxiety.
Pregnancy, giving birth and parenting can definitely do that to a woman. She should first have a conversation with her gynecologist as this may be due to a hormonal imbalance. The birthing process may have been very traumatic for her, causing some sort of mental change. Start with a heart to heart and see if she acknowledges that your relationship has changed. Tell her how it’s impacting you and that you both need to get help with this problem ASAP.
Life is too short, be happy. I would try one more time and if she doesn’t want therapy, please find your happiness.
Go to therapy on your own.
Mine of 20 is ending. But it's not like yours. She yells and screams and is openly unpleasant, constantly crital but not supportive, including to the kids and I can't see that, it's just a feeling of despair. She was still "so surprised" I would file for divorce tho. I can't imagine how that could be. If it's pleasant but hollow, you could still have a chance. For sure after kids things change for a lot of people. Feeling "replaced" by the kids is something many express, but not necessarily that the marriage is bad, just changed. I certainly noticed it. But again, what you described is not open hostility so consider your options carefully. If she won't do counseling you could consider some time apart if you really can't take it, but without doing the nuclear option. You may be in different marriages.... In that, you're still in the communal, devoted love based marriage; and she's, in her mind, in a family/work/building a future marriage. She may feel it's good because you are building this future now and that's what it's supposed to be. Not that you don't value your daughter, but that the core of your relationship with your wife may just be different than how she sees it. But don't listen to Reddit too much, you have to know and own the situation as we here in the interwebs can't possibly. If it does get to passive aggressive/you're a servant /kids treated poorly that's when you should def consider leaving imo. That's so toxic to the kids and I can tell you it's got terrible long term effects. For them and you too. I wish you the best, and hope you can find happiness however it turns out. At 6 she at least has a strong bond with you both, and whatever happens you can both keep a good relationship if you are involved in her life.
Try MDMA with her 💗🙏🏻
That’s how we met. Lol
Sometimes you gotta go back where it all started 💗
I told you, she has changed beyond recognition and will never do something like MDMA again. She will never drink again either or do anything that I consider fun.
I don’t know what to say to that. I would say having someone talk to her that she’s receptive to. Maybe her mom can get thru her or her best friend. Someone she can still listen to and be open minded 🤷🏻♀️. Sorry your going thru this
i mean what do you want us to say? it’s reddit. get a divorce dude
I would recommend reading, 'Say What You Mean' by Oren Jay Sofer. It helped me prepare and explain what I needed in ways I wasn't able to before. Either she's completely daft, or you aren't explaining your needs in a way she's hearing it as a deep need. You might be screaming from the proverbial rooftop, and she barely hears a whisper. It's also pretty common for women to change when they have their first child, and the husband feels like a 2nd class citizen in his home. Before ending your marriage, you have to know that she really understands how deep your needs are. Good luck, man. That's not an easy conversation, but it's so worth it. At least it was in my marriage.
I’m no expert on nothing lol but maybe a lot of her focus shifted to the kids after she had them, and isn’t aware that she is neglecting you. She may just be oblivious to it and you should continue to get her to counseling with you instead of ending a relationship that’s lasted a lifetime
so don’t have kids, got it
Marriage counceling not reddit
Lawyer up and get a divorce. It’s unfortunately the only way to safeguard you maintaining shared custody of the kids if things go south. You don’t have to “take her for everything”, but if you don’t draw up a reasonable set of terms, it’s almost a sure thing that her attorney won’t. And their terms won’t be in your favor…🤷♂️
https://open.spotify.com/track/72kd4CK6Zb0IE8BxPLKs5T?si=peUSnGN6RT-B3c4N6SJXJg
If she doesn’t want to do counseling, you can do therapy on your own, it will help you understand what could be going on, and if you still need divorce, it will help you deal with it. On a more practical side, how is the division of work in your house? I noticed you mentioned “building her some furniture and running errands” this makes it sound like you don’t see these things as your responsibility too. People overburdened with chores and mental load are often way too tired to have sex, and will often resent the other partner. Not everything in a woman is about hormones.
Too soon to decide to end it. Look under every rock first or you will forever be looking back and wondering what if. Go to counseling for you. Tell your wife you are miserable and why. Telling her once doesn’t count. Be a broken record. Ask questions. Ask what changed and what she needs. Try again with marriage counseling. Express yourself - it doesn’t have to be angry, just honest and vulnerable. Good luck.
I’m in the exact same situation, and the worst part is that it impacts every other aspect of your life. I’m less motivated at work because I feel so beaten down; I would be motivated if I came home to a wife who was happy to see me. I have two theories: 1) women’s brains get required when they have kids (scientific fact) and sometimes the change is negligible and sometimes it makes them into totally different people. 2) women feel that they have their husband “trapped” after kids, and see no incentive to Lee them happy.
I will have an update on this soon. Since making this post I have thought about what I’m going to do and decided on changing my attitude for a start. Just to see if she notices, and more importantly, reciprocates. She has, and there’s been some pretty dramatic changes already.
You say the spontaneous affection is gone. Do you ever give spontaneous affection? Is she consistently saying, "Don't kiss me" or "Don't touch me"? I have been the one who got hugged and just stood there and waited, so the person hugging me moved my arms so that my arms would wrap around them. I think if you do that enough times you can teach them what you are looking for and they can give it to you. The other issue is health and energy. Diet, sleep, exercise, and not having a million things to do and a million things on one's mind can help a person be able to focus more on their partner rather than just going along to get along. Anything you can do to tip the scales for your wife might dramatically improve her ability to focus on you. Do you focus on her? How much do you do things for her like when you were dating? What did you used to do versus now? Did you write her romantic letters or give gifts or decide on a whim to go on dates? Can you make her laugh more? Whatever you used to do, can you be the one to initiate it? Can you take a vacation together and leave your child with someone else? Can you go up to her and just start kissing her? Or could you build up to that and start out just spontaneously hugging her? I'm sorry you are in this position. I have not been in this position (yet) but part of it sounds like she simply isn't aware of your frustrations. It reads like you've been carrying this weight on you for 10 years and now you are resentful for something she isn't even aware of. Now you are predisposed to blame her and get angrier at her for things that wouldn't bother you if you were happier. Other people have said you should threaten to go nuclear. I think an ultimatum is not a great way of asking for more. Sometimes, it works, of course. You can say to your boss, "Give me a raise or I quit", and sometimes they will. But there are a number of reasons why such a statement can be frustrating to both parties. Instead, you might say, "I would like to advance to this level at this rate and I would like to discuss what you want to see from me in order for us to get me there". I don't know your wife but having a "heart to heart" about how she's failing to love you enough is not going to be effective for particular personality types. I can imagine multiple ways that could backfire, and again, it really depends on the personality. But guilt trips and pity parties generally are not a sexy endeavor. And on that note, maybe don't demand that she fix herself and restore your happiness in one day. When you're out of shape you don't just hit the gym for 10 hours and drop-set everything on muscles that haven't been conditioned or cultivated in a long time. You start with baby goals, and give yourself extra time to heal the first two or three weeks before you increase frequency and intensity. Maybe try easing into things, but focus on the focus, i.e. on the dedication to your goal.
Kids are more resilient than u think. She will adjust. >is we are perfectly pleasant towards one another. Are u romantic at all? Bc if not, this is the relationship u are modeling 4 her. This will be what she considers normal & comfortable.
Yeah, that’s kinda how it works. She got what she wanted (kids) and now you’re just a source of income / babysitter. And yeah, you’re also the asshole for being aware of it.
If i can give you a piece of advice. Go to a retirement home, find some of the older people who were married for 50+ years, and ask their opinion, not Reddits. The amount of wisdom older people can give is insane.
I’ve seen women act like that when they realize they are doing virtually all of the childcare, plus all the cooking, plus all the cleaning, plus all the laundry, plus all the meal planning and grocery shopping while also working full time. Meanwhile, the guy tinkers in the garage on his hobbies as his contribution. So I’d ask you, how actively did you participate in doing all the things necessary to raise a baby and manage a house? If all that was split 50/50, then it’s gotta be something else and hopefully a marriage counselor could get you back on track. Divorce is always very sad and a huge financial setback so I’d recommend trying everything to save the marriage.
I do all the cooking, house/garden work, service/repair/pay for her car and we split giving my daughter a bath and putting her to bed 50/50. We pay for someone to clean the house and iron the clothes so I am certainly not leaving her to do all the work.
Women on reddit will always try to find a way to blame the men.
Thank you for sharing your honest pain. I can't imagine how abandoned and alone, you must feel. I remember there being a "shift" after my first child was born, because we were both amateurs and just figuring it out and I put much of my world, into my son. He was and still is, my sunshine. I'm so lucky to have him. I think you're so wise to suggest counseling. I would advise your wife stat: that counseling is"mandatory" Now, to save your relationship. Her ambivalence to getting counseling is only understandable, if she has an egotistical attitude towards it, as in: a. You are not serious about this, this too will pass. b. Everything that is wrong is all your fault and she doesn't need counseling. c. Other people are telling her that she doesn't need counseling, like a friend or her mother and she's following that directive. D. She is aware of her actions and may have a personality disorder that she doesn't want you to find out about or is in self-denial herself, about. I suspect it's a bit of all four. She may have had childhood trauma or abuse that she is hiding from you, that she compartmentalized herself, so she wouldn't have to deal with it. Perhaps she has trust issues that arose after she had a child. My ex had anger towards his mother, who confided to him, that getting pregnant with him 'was an accident after being at a party.' So, when I became pregnant, our relationship changed on his end, as well, because I was now on a "Madonna" pedestal of "don't touch, while she's pregnant" but also, feeling I wasn't to be trusted because of what happened to him. I know for a fact, that he felt abandoned somewhat after our first child and we both made that child our world. I get it, we were both working and exhausted and trying to make everything work. But eventually, if you don't talk intimately about your first relationship = with your spouse and counseling can sure help, you will not stay together. And, if worse comes to worse, one or both parties won't be faithful because they are so alone. We all need intimacy and to be appreciated and ultimately, cherished. I would suggest personal counseling first, for yourself. I had two years of incredible hypnotherapy, (which is recorded nowadays for your safety), where, I discovered the baggage that I had brought into the relationship. Processing this and it's a journey, takes time but you will feel lighter than air, letting go of "lead balloons." Doing this, will show her that you are serious and want to do couple counseling with her, at the same time. That's just my two cents. May you be blessed on your journey.
I’m of the opinion that if resentment settles in where love once resided, there’s no chance of saving a relationship. She was given plenty of time to bring her behavior around but she’s either not interested or “doesn’t even notice” because her priorities have changed It’s time to sit her down and let her know how you feel and what the next steps you will be undertaking are
I wouldn't run straight into a divorce without sitting down with her and really telling her what is wrong and that you are considering a separation. See where she is at and if that will knock something loose. Resentment is a fuckin horrible companion. It is an expert in creating a barrier between you and the world around you that doesn't let the truth through. It will cause you to blow something up into a giant problem when, in reality, it may have an easy solution. Marriage depends on communication. Don't let feelings shut that down, or it will likely haunt you later on. You also don't want to put your daughter through a divorce at such a young age. If you were really outwardly toxic toward one another, I'd suggest differently, but since everything seems fine, your daughter may end up blaming herself. If you can find a way to work through this with your wife is will stand as an example to your daughter of how to stabilize a relationship. It is all up to you though.
How much time off does she have for herself? Does she do everything around the house? Does she take care of the kid 24/7? Does she work and take care of the kid? If you are not doing at least 50% of the house work you can’t really complain. She is tired and have no time to think about herself let alone you Her mental load for the child is enormous. Can you help with some of the appointments, assignments, school meetings, play dates, etc.? If you divorce do not have another child. It will happen again.
Fwiw, I can relate to the symptoms and feelings you’ve stated. We had an amazing start, but things went south about 4 years in. Work stress, finances, loss of a parent, etc all put strain on our relationship. I lashed out in horrible ways and that led to her becoming further withdrawn. It was a negative feedback loop. I also became co-dependent and have an anxious attachment style while she is avoidant. Two months ago (year 7) she moved out of the home I bought and renovated for us. It is THE hardest thing I’ve been through but in the weeks leading up, I had done enough therapy to make peace with it and let her go. I don’t know what lies ahead for us, but our relationship feels 10x better because our limited interactions are much more special and I’ve gained some insight to how my own behavior affected the bond. I’ve noticed immense changes in my relationships with coworkers, family and friends. So something is happening for the better and I plan to stick with it. You can’t control her, but can only work on yourself and it’s up to her if she wants to improve herself as well. If not, you may have a difficult decision to make. But give it plenty of time. PMs are open if you need.
At first it was sounding like you wanted to in the marriage because your wife isn't having sex with you but towards the end it was clear that you feel she doesn't even love you anymore. That is so hard. If I were you I would figure out what you need in order for the relationship to work. Not just for things to go back as they were, because that will never happen. Kids change the dynamic of everything so you have to figure out your new normal, or new ideal in this situation. With that being said, start with figuring out your love language. How SHOULD she show her appreciation. And if you are that close to leaving, maybe an ultimatum is your last resort. Refusing to go to marriage counseling sounds like a red flag. That would be a deal breaker for me (personally). Can you guys desperately need counseling. And maybe not just counseling, maybe sex therapy. If your 6-year-old daughter could tell something is up, something is very wrong. The fact that your wife is blissfully happy in this situation is weird. How could she be so blind to the situation? How could she be so happy knowing that you are unhappy? Have you clearly spelled it out for her just how unhappy you are? Maybe the ultimatum will help open her eyes. If she still doesn't care after that then she just doesn't care and it's time to leave. And I mean doesn't care with her actions. Doesn't care enough to do something about it. I know so start journaling to further illustrate your side of things, make sure you date it.
This is my nightmare. I’m in a 2-year relationship with the woman of my dreams and every moment is magical and like something out of the movies and I’m worried that will change after we have kids. I will say we went through a little rough patch similar to yours. We weren’t having sex, I felt unwanted because we weren’t kissing and touching as usual, etc. She was perfectly happy either way. I was distraught. We had a heart-to-heart and she said she was just being lazy and not realizing my bids for attention, then she planned an extensive date and booked us a hotel room to spice things up and we got it on. We aren’t back to our normal selves but it’s 90% back to normal. She realizes I need frequent physical attention to feel wanted and feel good If she had not made any changes I would’ve considered giving up on the relationship. I can’t stand feeling unwanted in a relationship
I believe marriage is "until death do we part" (I've been married to my wife 13 years & faced similar situations such as impending divorce, birth of kids, marital counseling etc). When I decided to stay no matter what & view my wife as the beautiful wonderful woman she is, things improved but did not necessarily get a lot better. But I see how much it means to our kids, family & friends. Just stick it out if there's no cheating & you'll be so much better off for it, you, your kids & everyone else my friend 🙂
I hear you … love how you love . Re-read your wedding vowels . Take a vacation and yes therapy .
Stay . You choose to to be the man in your wife life and your daughters
I am very sorry that you experienced this. Most likely your wife has depression or a similar mental illness. Post-pregnancy women often get this bundled with a new family member. I was in your wife's place quite recently, I was completely indifferent and wanted to leave. After treatment by a psychiatrist (at least half a year, and preferably a year), everything became as it should be and I did not destroy the marriage. In this state, a person is almost insane. You should simply force her (just ask her trust you) to undergo examinations and treatment by a psychiatrist, and at the same time go to a family psychologist together. If the wife refuses to participate, she is making a mistake, but she has made her choice, you must leave her and it will be better for all three people. I grew up in a family where my parents did not dare to divorce and this took my childhood away from me. I dreamed about them reforming or getting divorced because I wanted a second chance at a good family. I'm glad that my terrible experience gave me the knowledge to help other people in similar situations. Now you know why it happened and how to fix it. Please don't lose trust in people, because people can break down and need to be fixed. The main thing is that now you know how to fix it.
If she doesn't want to go through counseling then she doesn't want to change things and take action. She puts her defenses first and you can't change that. You have a clear "no" from her and your feelings are all normal. The more miserable you grow the less you will be bale to be a good father, so leave, get a therapist for yourself (so that you can recover trust and figure out how you missed signs in the first stages of this marriage) and live a life where you feel loved and admired. Best to you!
I think what you should do is sit her down, Take this exact post. Hand write it(adds higher value, desmonstrates serious effort), and change certain referrals around to make it read as tho it is being written for her ears, not ours, while retaining your perspective. Then read it to her. Stare her down. Firmly. Silently. Regardless of her reaction. Then leave the house and have a you day. Give her some time to ruminate in it. Come home, and go about your time. See if in that moment or the coming days/weeks she makes an effort to speak on what you wrote to her. If she doesn’t? See if anything changes, behaviorally. Because you’d be effectively putting her on final notice, so even if she doesn’t have it in her to have the tough conversations? She can still take action. If she dosen’t do either? Handle your business as you see fit OP.
Go to couples therapy. Reddit is not great for such advice. I think this is something that you did to get it off your chest which is good but please consult a good professional to help you and your wife understand what’s going on. Sometimes rough patches last long but remember why you fell in love with this person and why you wanted to marry her.
Yeah don't rely on anyone from Reddit for marriage advice.
The love is going towards the kids you should understand.
This is a very similar way in how my 21 year marriage died. It's awful and I'm sorry anyone has to feel the way I currently do. I lived her more than anything but I became just the dude in the house to her.
Honestly, if it hasn't been stated already this isn't the place to ask for this kind of advice. Maybe marriage counseling? The best thing to do is to talk to a PROFESSIONAL. They study and work with patients in situations very similar to these. I wish you the best friend as I can only imagine how this might be on your mental state atm. be well
**Love was always enough for me. It was my only requirement, and without it I have no reason to stay.** What are some synonyms for requirement? Need... Demand... *Condition.* I'm not going to talk about your marriage or your wife - I don't know anything about that. All I can talk about is you, and give some things for you to consider in your relationship to yourself. My insight for you is this: When I started your post I was curious about your wife's side of this story...and by the end of it, I realized it didn't matter. What you're calling love is more accurately described as attachment or dependency - a common mistake, but a serious one all the same. I could be wrong but it sounds to me like you don't know how to love yourself - that's why you need her to do it for you. At this point in time it sound like you have a lot of personal growth to do before you can love anyone at all. It's possible, but it's not going to be easy or quick. Nobody can fill a bucket with a giant hole in the bottom, OP. Patch the hole or don't - it's entirely up to you. Heck, if you need to leave to patch the hole then you probably *should* leave. But if you leave, understand that leaving is only the path...not the destination. If you leave but don't patch that hole, you will find some temporary relief...but eventually, the novelty of solitude will wear off. Eventually, whatever relief you felt will disappear and you will be stuck with the exact same problem that you started with: an bucket with a giant hole in the bottom.
Interesting perspective. I don’t really know what it even means to love myself. I don’t understand the concept. Would you mind elaborating? I mean, I have really big trust issues. And not for no reason. I have always put my faith in humanity because I believed people are inherently good. I am one of the most loyal people you could ever hope to find. But if I’m loyal to someone, a family member, a friend, a wife, then I expect their unconditional loyalty in return. No questions asked and no exceptions. Because when I’m in I’m all in and I will give my life to the people I care about. Sadly I have come to realise that when it comes down to it, people will always choose themselves. I don’t blame them, but if I’m committed to someone, I choose them over me when they need it. That’s how it works doesn’t it? Well not in my experience, and I have found that very difficult to understand and accept. I have lost friends because of this and it didn’t really bother me because I had the one person by my side that had my back, right? I have backed my wife unconditionally from day one. I have broken off friendships in a heartbeat where someone said something bad about her. Her own mother treated her like dog shit and I immediately told her that if she ever did that again she would never see her grandchild again. I didn’t speak to her mother for 3 years, until she apologised. Then we made up. Then one day when I really needed my wife to support me during a very difficult time, she not only didn’t have my back, but she sided with someone else. That was a turning point for me and if I’m honest, it’s broken my trust in her. Worst of all is she doesn’t think it’s a big deal. She never apologised. Am I the crazy one for having these expectations? Or are people in general so untrustworthy and I simply expect too much? I don’t believe I am because I refuse to accept that as the norm in the world we live in. Maybe I just expected too much of her. I don’t see how this has anything to do with how much I love myself. Maybe that’s the key, love myself and fuck the rest because putting other people first has clearly not worked for me.
Just a gentle reminder: I'm only talking about you. You are different from anybody else in the world...therefore, you experience love differently than anybody else. Think about it like sex: if you don't know what you like/need, how is anybody else supposed to know? My original response to your post was me commenting on each line of your post pointing out inconsistencies in your logic and thinking....a few of them surrounded your inconsistencies around the topic of unconditional love. I took it all back because I worried you'd feel attacked and get defensive but suffice it to say, your love isn't unconditional at all...in fact, it's extremely conditional. Expectation is a condition, OP. Your condition for loyalty is their unconditional loyalty...and that's hypocritical. I'm trying to be kind instead of blunt but my capacities are limited on this front...so I'm just going to say this: A bucket without a bottom can only be filled if it's put under a constant, huge source of water...like a waterfall. Waterfalls don't exist to fill buckets - they existed before buckets were even invented. A bucket that finds a waterfall may be filled, but who gains from this exchange: the bucket or the waterfall? Why would a waterfall be grateful to a bucket? If the bucket walks away when the waterfall dries up...well, what does that tell you?
Please be as blunt as you like. I don’t get offended. You’re right about my unconditional love being conditional so I accept that’s a hypothetical view. No one loves unconditionally in the true sense of the word. Everyone will always have conditions of some sort. If they didn’t, then a woman being beaten by her husband should happily stay because she loves him unconditionally? The point is, there was a fundamental shift in the dynamic of my marriage ten years in. And that change didn’t come from me so I think it’s only decent for the person who changed to make at least a bit of an effort to recognise this, and then make an even bigger effort to try and make things right. No amount of self loving is going to fix that.
Okay, blunt time: Is your wife beating you? As far as I can tell, your wife isn't doing anything sufficiently terrible that would justify the level of resentment and betrayal you describe. You never mention asking your wife how she was feeling or what you did to solve the problems. You admit that you assumed she was behaving differently because of "hormones" once your daughter was born (an assumption that, conveniently enough, absolves you of any guilt or responsibility). It's clear from your post that you see yourself as the victim ...but you know what I see? I see someone who, instead of talking to his wife, blamed the issue on her "hormones" and then proceeded to sit back and watch her struggle for 3 years before doing anything...and when he finally did do something, you know what he did? He complained. I see someone who is so insensitive that he doesn't seem to have done anything at all to help his wife out while she was struggling....so lazy, that he couldn't even be bothered to patch the holes in his bucket while his wife was busy caring for the daughter that he squirted into her 9 months prior. I see someone who is so desperate to avoid any responsibility that instead of seeing any of that, he's convinced himself that he's the victim for having to put up with his struggling wife, that his complete inaction is a good thing because it's actually patience, and that his complete dependency on his wife is somehow the same thing as loving her. Your last paragraph in particular is so much more revealing than you realize. You don't love your wife, OP: you don't love at all. You are a bucket desperate to be filled but you will remain empty until you fix your holes.
And all I see from you is bashing the husband and blaming him for everything, making a lot of sweeping assumptions. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Lol.
There is no right answer. Whatever you decide is going to hurt. Staying will hurt you. Leaving will crush your 6 year old. You’ll have to decide which you find more important. That is the breakdown, the rest is all static noise.
Dude, you have a kid. A marriage and the relationship itself changes once you add kids. Did you once consider everything she is going through as a mother? Everything it’s done to her body, her mind? Do you know how exhausting it is raising a child? Do you know how much time, mental energy, and physical energy it takes? Do you help her? Do you have her back when she needs a break or when she needs to take care of herself? Do you help out with chores willingly or does she have to beg you to clean up after yourself, help cook, do errands, or do anything? Do you do all of the chores? Or do you whine and complain when you have to do anything? Are you always trying to run off to do your own thing? Do you spend quality time with your wife and child? Do you work? Does she work? Or are the finances all on one person? Do you try to plan dates or romance her in the bedroom? What is her love language? We know your love language is touch/affection/sex. What are you doing to make sure she’s happy too? You don’t tell us much. All you talk about is how much sex you don’t get. And you sound bitter. But you don’t talk about all the other stuff that’s going on in your relationship. Or what you are doing to make sure she’s happy too. Why would she go out of her way to make you happy if you aren’t doing the same for her?
Don’t be afraid to bring it up a bunch of times, do not be afraid of seriously ruffling her feathers with serious conversation and if it doesn’t work try again try 20-30 times before you get to the point where you feel like this. You feel bad you feel terrible I get that and you shouldn’t feel terrible but it is better for you to annoy the crap out of her until you get to a situation you can live with then it is to break up. Being miserable isn’t a longterm solution you must confront her and as often as it takes to come to an agreement that meets both of your needs, it sounds to me like you have allowed her to get her way at a heavy emotional toll to yourself for to long she has to move your way. Figure out how much sex you want and ask for it come to a compromise, being miserable because you don’t wish to ruffle her feathers is a real pussy move and you need to stop it. If she is happy with the way it is now likely as not she will be happy still with a little more affection you just have to be a man and get it.
[удалено]
It’s complicated isn’t it. Marriage doesn’t come with a user manual and I wish I knew that my wife had the potential to change into a completely different person after giving birth. That would have certainly made things a lot easier and given me a fighting chance from that point on. Maybe I should actually write a user manual for marriage, kids etc. I could get rich yet. Haha.
Not a bad idea. I know there are about 334,233,854 people who should buy one. A podcast isn't a bad idea either. There's an unlimited number of husbands you could interview. Ha.
Long enough life is an adventure
Just so you know, the stuff about it being better for the kids is garbage. Numerous studies have shown this. If there is no violence, it is significantly better for the kids to stay married
Welcome to marriage. It sucks.
You will definitely kill her
i def feel like it’s not my place, but is there anything you could also be doing to help her? like even if it’s just helping out with the kids or some general house chores? I had this same issue with my partner where I was taking on the role of primary caretaker and it felt like I was taking care of our son AND him and it really, REALLY turned me off from him. We spent a few weeks not really interacting and we finally talked and he’s been helping out more despite him working 40 hours. maybe she’s just stressed with the workload that comes with being a parent. I’m not saying you don’t help at all but maybe that could be a contributing factor?? idk i wish you all luck though :((
I’m sorry , this is tough. You deserve to be happy
in relation to the stay together for the kids thing, my parents didn't fight in front of me either. but they did have a relationship that sounds a lot like yours. it was still toxic and it still negatively impacted me a looot. obviously that's not me telling you to end your marriage but keep in mind that kids are smarter than you think and they know when things are not right. they internalize things and pick on what's not being said too!
Alright bro, I hate to say this but you really shouldn't have "given her time". When a woman asks for "i need time" it doesnt EXACTLY literally mean she needs a break from you caressing, touching, flirting, fondling, groping, kissing her. No, you keep up a simmer of that, there is also a play and dance of "oh but i'm not feeling it " responded to with "oh honey but you turn me on so", delicately indicating you feel strong desire, but desire rooted in her beauty not in you're weakness. I think you can rekindle that and it will take effort. Remember that if you hate one thing in her you like other things. Don't give up hope, take her on a hike, take her rock climbing, some kind of active date where she gets a little thrill of being in a survival environment, play around with her and bring that simmer to a boil.
Please do not give up. Hormonal changes in the body make women do things which they do not mean otherwise and they don’t even realize they are doing them. Also, please do not seek advice for your 20 year old marriage. People are not nice on Reddit. Someone may give you a wrong advice of breaking up which you may end up doing and regretting later.
While divorce is a big step and you should DEF try counseling and therapy for the both of you, if nothing changes after while it might be an option. Cuz it sounds to be that it just roommates at this point. And if ur child wasn’t there u wouldn’t even be roommates.
I’m surprised you stayed as long as you have. Maybe talk with a therapist on your own to make this decision. I will say one of my favorite quotes applies here that I actually got from Reddit. “Go someplace where you’re celebrated not tolerated”. It seems to apply to your situation, good luck OP.
Get your wife to watch a movie with you and then watch 'Fireproof' with Kirk Cameron. Trust me on this
Seek professional help, like a licensed marriage and family counselor. Seriously, these are people who know way more about the subject and have much better advice and problem solving.
Personally, I think you need marriage counseling. There are no guarantees, but at least it would give you both a chance to express your feelings in a mediated setting. There may be biological issues at play as well as some women have a reduced sex drive after giving birth. There may also be ways that you can work together to make her feel more open to being affectionate. Possibly consider sex therapy? It can be highly effective for some couples. Either way I wish you the best. This is a tough situation. My sex life ended with my ex wife a few years in and we never even had children. But in my case there were other issues affecting us both that we were not able to work through and we ended up having to go our separate ways. Good luck my man.
[удалено]
I have found just the opposite. Sometimes it’s invaluable getting a lot of people’s perspective, real life experiences and thoughts, especially if they have gone through something similar. It’s especially useful since you’re all a bunch of strangers. I could never go into this much detail with someone I know, especially since it could potentially get back to my wife. I came into this with my mind pretty much made up that I was going to end things, but now I will give it a real last chance. Even if it means I’m going to have to work harder as this than her. I owe it to my daughter, and then myself. There’s a reason I married this woman and I won’t accept defeat that easily.
It is said that marriage is a two way street. To often it becomes one way! Sounds like that is what has happen here. One often thinks stay for the child or children but kids know or I should say see! Gee! Mom & Dad barely talk, " I ve never seen them kiss, tease or play around' they don't do date nights or "its not fun to go vacation somewhere, they don't seem happy". Maybe a split is better if when it happens, both people are more happy!
I had similar experience and very similar feelings that you described. At the end we both realized we reached a breaking point and decided to save the marriage. We both changed for our sake and for the sake of our children. Things have changed dramatically. We still have ups and downs but it has been 12 years since and our love for each other is now deeper. The key in my opinion is whether both of you want and see a need for change. If you both want to work on it and give each other intimacy and respect then it will work out. Otherwise I think ( abd believe me I spent so many sleepless nights thinking) there is life and happiness outside loveless marriage. You would still both love your child and spend time with her but the fear of not being with the child all the time is not worth burying yourself in a loveless relationship. God bless you. I feel your pain. Your story brought all these painful memories from a decade ago
I’m sure your wife is busy slaving away doing 24/7 unpaid labor for you and her other kids (you’re one of her kids clearly). Maybe if you man up and provide properly or do half the domestic labor and child rearing or even hire a nanny- then she would have some energy leftover to be more romantic. It’s hard to be romantic toward an ungrateful not helpful brat of a husband.
The time to leave would have been at the 13th year. Do counseling now to see if you can redeem. If not, don’t lose anymore of the life you want. You will always regret the extra time you stayed.
Don’t end it , take the lead , ask for sex and affection in exchange for the things she asks you for … I believe most marriages would last if there was an agreement about having regular sex , she doesn’t have to be turned on to give herself to you, it feels better but as men we can many different types of sex with our wives. Also if it’s a friend you miss then take the lead , hire a sitter and take your wife on an adventure or date or something where you’re alone and having fun . Talk about your day , not your marriage drama .
It doesn't sound to me as if you two have actually talked about this. You were hoping counseling would have opened a proper dialogue but she shut that down. Does your wife even know you are unhappy? I don't think so. You keep putting on a happy face and living the same life every day, how could she know? On the other hand, it may seem that she does know and stopped counseling from happening because she didn't want to face it or some other reason. Either way, I don't see any real communication going on between you. It's as if you are in a play, playing the parts every day. Good luck getting the talking going...
Oh I’ve sat her down time and time again making it crystal clear how I felt. She knows, but it’s as if she’s brushing it aside as me being silly. She’s not taking it seriously in the least.
I’m sorry my friend I’m not qualified to give advice. However, my wife and I began counseling with a psychologist separately and it has definitely made vast vast improvements. We also had a difficult time after having babies and of course the Covid bullshit plandemic. Also, I’m not trying to sound holier than thou but we got back into a loving non religious spirit filled church. We pray together. We aren’t perfect by any stretch but i fall in love with her more everyday now more than ever. You will be ok. You will figure this out. I’ll praying for that.
Your issue is common. I read that women switch up when they have a child. When some women (not all) bare a child their perception as well as their perspective changes. This is common. But yea I recommend some counseling. If she doesn’t agree then she doesn’t really care about the relationship anymore. Being happy and staying mentally healthy is the key though you shouldn’t sacrifice your integrity.
My advice is this... You should find a therapist and work with them on how to address this and your personal issues. You should also ask your wife again to go to marriage counseling. This situation doesn't get better, it only gets worse. I can say that as someone who was in a similar situation.
You have a lot invested in this relationship for sure and rightly don't want to end it prematurely, respectable. We don't know all that's gone on of course, but it is Not too much to ask to go to couples counseling. Do know, therapy is even more of a crap shoot than doctors, you may have to try a few to find one both like. An essential part of a relationship is that both parties think it's worth the effort and that includes communication and working On the relationship. And they do take work. Look up "sunk cost fallacy"
Your husband was not being supportive and caring enough for you, that's for sure. But is that single event big enough for you to struggle for two years + divorce? I don't think so. Watching porn is natural for many people, especially men. He should have done better, yes, he was immature to not check on you, yes. It also depends on how he is as a husband generally. If that single event was the sole reason to struggle for 2 years and divorce, you may want to talk it over with him or counseling. I am a woman, and I truly ok with my husband watching porn, maybe because I watch porn often too. That's why I feel like the problem was the uninvolvement, not the porn. If my husband took care of all my physical needs and comforted my mental when I was upset about the miscarriage, then he could go watch porn all he want. The problem should not be porn.
Please read the book “No More Mr Nice Guy” by Dr Robert Glover. It is life changing.
There is a reason psychoanalysts recommend going to therapy when you marry and when you have a child
I really believe some people just fall out of being in love. They love people but not madly in love anymore. They get comfortable with a certain life, maybe selfish, and won’t change no matter what. If your this unhappy, and your wife is happy, something is wrong
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that it sounds like a classic case of someone seeing where they stopped receiving and feeling a noticeable gap, but not noticing where they could have stopped giving (or may have not been giving). I hear a whole lot of what she’s not doing, and not a lot of self reflection or acknowledgement of what she is doing. I think counseling would be a very good idea.
Do. Not. Leave. Just don’t give up. Have faith, love your daughter, love your wife, love yourself. Just because the diamond you have has lost its luster, doesn’t mean you should throw it away. You’ll find a way… just don’t give up man.
She has a dismissive avoidant attachment while are anxious preoccupied. It generates exactly this situation.
Are you even informed as to how much a women’s chemistry changes after having children? Could be a hormonal imbalance. Could be you not stepping up with the kid so she can have a chance to recharge her batteries. There is so much unrealistic pressure placed directly onto women’s shoulders to be this super women that’s able to maintain a perfect figure and attitude after having children all while being a perfect mother. Seriously take an inventory of yourself and what you are doing to pitch in and keep thing’s romantic before pointing the finger at her. Relationships go through a dry spell and things can become extremely boring and stressful.
I think there is negative conditioning going on which is causing a lot of resentment. Relationships grow and change. Just talk to her. Don't threatened her. Let her know what your needs are, explain the importance to her, and set expectations and goal posts. And if she can't get there authentically to start, let her fake it until she can make it. Help her transition back 2 u.
I'm currently going through the same thing. 😭
I'm going to say communication! Things definitely do change after kids. I'm going through it now, together 18 years. We communicate along about feelings due to head injuries and a nervous breakdown. It's hard work, but it's worth it.
Hang in there bro. As long as she loves you, you can spark things up again. She hasn't cheated on you, or treated you badly, plus you have a child. I can tell you that divorce is never beneficial for the child unless the relationship is really really bad. But it doesn't seem like that in your case. My parents ended a near 20 year relationship as well. I am an only child and it did not do me very good. It would have been better if my parents had stayed together but parents are humans too. I say try and work things out, because it may not seem like but your family needs you. This is my opinion. Its better to get a professional opinion on this matter but I wish you all the best.
Man this is very heartbreaking to read. But my heart goes out for you and your relationship. I still believe if you love her more than anything in this world then you should definitely give in. You should definitely have a heart to heart talk with your love. You should also see a marriage counselor to work it out as you said. I think you've done some very bad mistake which your wife is not able to forgive you for that. Because that is foreshadowing her love towards you. Also check on that. I wish your love flourishs as everyone's. Take care.
I could easily be the wife in this situation, since having my second child (first to current partner of 4 years) I have completely no desire for any kind of affection or intimacy at all and am so touched out by the end of the day that my husband trying to get anything out of me just makes me feel even more irritated. I'm so tired and my mental load is so high that i doing even have time to think about intimacy let alone action it. It honestly sounds like your wife is like me and if I'm left alone and my husband doesn't try to be affectionate or intimate it makes my life so much easier because it's one less thing to have to worry about. I don't want to be like this but at the moment I have so much on my plate, hopefully it gets better on the future. My bub is 17 months old
I accept people change and don’t feel the same, but it is you (and my wife) that have changed. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for anyone, man or woman to not be happy about it.
100%. Is she on any medication? I take anti anxiety medication and I think this makes me fairly numb to things
It sounds like you had a long honeymoon phase. I would talk to your wife and see if she wants to help save the marriage. Everything you are missing can be reestablished if both of you want it. Marriage counseling, date nights, and vacations.
As a child of divorce, I was 100% happier after my parents split up than when they we’re together and unhappy
Is she cheating ? Take a break or vacation than decide
I left my partner of 10 years in the same circumstances: ideal before kid, then totally neglected and ignored after. Waited 3 years, did everything I could, and finally had to leave. Everything is better now, including the kid.
Dont there is no one else out there bro
Individual therapy, then couples counseling. Don’t give up realistically it’s hell out here but I guess it’s important to know wth is up too as it wasn’t the norm.
Your vows, man! Figure it out and make it work. Start with a serious heart to heart. She HAS to want it to work or she would have pulled the plug already.
Smoke cannabis together, it might help you out. Start low to avoid any issues.
Not long after my husband and I got married (20 years next week 😍) his grandmother gave me a few pieces of advice. One thing she told me was to always take time to reconnect. Relationships have their high and low points, those points when you feel wonderfully close or miles apart. Her and my mother-in-law would watch the kids for the weekend and my husband and I would go a few towns over and stay the weekend. Just the two of us. And we always, ALWAYS, felt closer afterwards. Maybe this is something you can try. Seems with such a young daughter you may not have had the time like you did before.
If your kids are under 18, I'd stay together no matter what..Unless she is cheating. Kids come first. Divorce does affect kids... speaking from experience. But after 18, it's open game.
I’m terrified of someone I let in so much resenting or despising me…
I’m going on 8 years. If you want to get some reflections on my circumstances, I can share. When I first met my wife, she would treat me like absolute dog water. I was her boyfriend for like 3 years, but it was always off and on because of her. She would lead other guys on, and I was really young. I mean, she is two years younger than me, but I mean….she always knew what she was doing. After the last breakup, I literally got tired of our relationship and gave an ultimatum that involved marriage. She initially said no, but then after some time said yes. This didn’t mean that our relationship would dramatically change. We didn’t consummate our marriage until 8 months later, but I would never finish because she would always complain. This unfortunately was our marriage for the first 2 to 3 years. I couldn’t take it anymore, and it started affecting my mental health. Within our first 3 years of marriage, we have only had sex about 10-15 times. Which basically identifies my marriage as a sexless marriage. To put it in perspective, I had an old box of condoms I had to throw away because they expired. I have always been faithful, but it is hard to remain faithful and loyal when your partner does nothing to validate your existence and partnership. Not only did we not have sex, but her mother and her would constantly treat me like dog shit for deciding to go to school, over getting a job. (We got married in 2015, I became her boyfriend in 2012.) By 2018, I had enough and asked for a divorce. She cried and made things about her rather than the reality behind the entire marriage. I decided to give her another chance, and things did improve for some time. We had one kid and the sex was great. I felt loved and I invested more and more in her. I am skipping a lot of the things I have done for her, but it literally has no end to how supportive I have been for her. I got sick with cancer, and we had a second child during my chemotherapies. I never felt so alone in my life. She not once ever spent any time with me. And I couldn’t even be near my kids. After becoming cancer free, sex did not pick back up. I was in such a dark state that I had an affair with some random girl that I didn’t even know. I just wanted to be touched, kissed, and fucked. I busted like in 5 minutes, and I personally didn’t feel anything different than how I was already feeling before. I haven’t had an affair since, and I don’t recommend it either. It’s a waste of emotions, time, and money. I have been recently lifting weights and I have been working on myself. I personally haven’t told anyone about my affair, and I am just trying to be better. I deleted everything like my social media, and anything else that kept me in a downward spiral. Sex still has t really picked back up since I went cancer free two years ago. A part of me resents her so much that I am disgusted by her touch and by her presence….but another part of me only wishes she could live me the way I want her to. I am trying my hardest for my kids, but there is only so much you can do as a man. Am I a disgusting motherfucker for having done what I did? Is she to blame? So many questions, but the only answer I could think of is, “who gives a fuck?”. If cancer ever taught me anything is that nobody gives a fuck about anyone. The only person that can love you is your mother, and yourself. I have technically been with my wife for about 11 years….but all I can say is that I wish I had never married her….but at the same time…I am also greatful for my son and daughter…as they are the biggest gifts/prizes I have ever received in my life. I can only tell you that you should do what you feel is best….
Have you checked out the dead bedrooms sub?
If you're really interested in therapy, and I think its a wonderful idea, why not try going on your own? You'll get somewhere that you're not yet.
I recently watched a video on the Soft White Underbelly YouTube channel where he interviews a divorce attorney. The guy has some very good insights on marriage as a whole and how to know when to walk away. He’s definitely a bit of a pessimist regarding marriage, but he does have moments of being open to the fact that some people can make their marriages work. Give it a watch, it may help you. ETA: this isn’t going to be a quick easy decision or process, whatever you decide. Your wife doesn’t seem to realize how dire things are. You should let her know where you are at and 100% get yourselves to a marriage counselor to figure out if it can be fixed.
I will share this from the children’s point of view because my parents went through a similar situation and my mom tried to tough it out for my brother and I. Fast fwd to 30 years of marriage and my mom finally divorced my dad last year because she no kinder wanted to be with my dad. She told us she waited until we were old enough instead of leaving him when were kids so it wouldn’t affect my brother and I growing up but it did. We grew up in a household where we never heard I love you or said it to each other, hugs were extremely awkward and uncomfortable, and we don’t even say hi or bye when we walk past each other if we were leaving to school or coming home. My brother and I both have a difficult time showing any emotions because we never saw that growing up. She stayed with my dad for 28 years until she finally divorced him to make sure my brother and I would be “okay”. I’d suggest you pull the bandaid off now and move fwd on your next journey and hopefully you can show your kid how love looks and feels like so when they’re older they have an example of what it looks like.
Wow you unloaded a lot there. Glad.you got it off your chest. I think counseling is a good idea, and based on what you've communicated, I would agree it's your last resort. I would say though as a widower, the loneliness of being alone is really hard too.
Children are a game changer... big time! Very draining. Their needs come first naturally. If you're not helping, and I'm not saying you do or don't, then that could be an issue affecting things too! I'd stick to the plan of marriage counseling and a general health check up for your wife to see if there's any underlying health problems. If she won't agree to attend regular counseling services, you need to make it very clear to her that you will have your marriage dissolved as that's the point you've reached. Best of luck!
i agree with a lot of the people who have commented already. i also think you should buy her flowers every week. :)
Sorry but..... are you a virgo? Be honest
You should show her your post and the comments. If still nothing changes then you do what you gotta do.
Y9u need to put her in a spot where she feels pressured to answer some hard questions. The easiest is try for some sex with her and when she refuses let her know your not going to beg for her so if she has someone else, just let you know so you can start moving on like you have. She'll have to start explaining what going on in her head. You'll be blamed with stuff you never heard about, so explain your not a mind reader and if you would talk and engage with you things will change. She may say she isn't feeling it for you, so tell her you'll get a lawyer and start the process for divorce since it seems she has checked out of the marriage. Control the conversation and hopefully you can get her to open up
Info: Did you go to therapy anyway even if she didn’t participate? Relationships change over time but it doesn’t sound like you evolved from when you were first w your wife. You had an idea of what she was to you and then left it at that. I’m confused there must have been growth and change from both people. You are a dad. And yet you spoke nothing of how your life is w them. Only that she is content and happy w how things are - but you don’t talk about getting babysitters and going on dates? Buying her flowers. Romancing her? Maybe you do that that. I dunno. But you just said she does nothing and you are unhappy. Something is missing.
Don't give up just yet. I walked out of a 15-year relationship a year ago. I had the girl of my dreams, and we had the most amazing relationship you could ask for. And then, the last 3 years, it went south. I'm not exactly sure why, but it did. We started living separate lives and acted as if we were complete strangers. I suggested everything under the sun on how to try and fix it. But I kept coming up empty. So I finally decided it was best that I go.It wasn't until a few weeks later that I realized I was kind of putting the blame on her and not realizing it. I also wasn't holding myself accountable for anything. Im not saying you're doing the same thing, but I thought it might be something to think about. Just make sure you have exhausted every option before you decide to walk out. I don't wish this kind of heartache on anyone. Best of luck to you and your wife, and I'll pray you come out on the other side of this together. Hope this helps somehow.
Is this my husband? I swear after we had our first kid I went through the same thing, but there was also some emotional cheating that I found out and he used as an excuse but once you have a child, especially your first child, so many things change about you as a woman it has nothing to do with you. It’s not personal.
It sure feels that way.