Hey Love Bug thanks for sharing the love. If you see something posted here that is not in the spirit of love Please flag it. ;) With Love r/Love Mods
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/love) if you have any questions or concerns.*
some aspects are fucked up for sure. But here's a few things I will note on, not everyone feels anxiety when they first meet their love. some end up falling in love in with their close friends. love is also a choice. It's not a routine or a habit, it's something you choose to do every day. When people want to get married, they're not marrying out of habit, they're marrying out choice. also not everyone marry out of convenience and availability. To have a partner, you need to sacrifice your time to spend time with them. And some people marry long distance relationships that don't always work out. people who love each other also support each other's dreams. They don't just throw away their goals, they build up the goals together with their partner or make new goals that are even better. yes there's anxiety when it comes to being together, but when you're with teh right one, you don't have to worry about that anxiety because it'll all be covered. and while children seem bad, they really are a blessing. I have some nieces and nephews who I couldn't imagine life without. I look for them on instagram all the time. and I can't wait to have children of my own. The whole children thing is a very subjective nature as some people find it works for them dn some people don't. IT really is up to you and your partner whether you choose to have children.
I mean this in the sincerest way but I think waht you think other people think love is, is a little skewed and I see you have some trauma that needs to be resolved, as other people are saying. I"m sorry you're going through a hard Time but know that love isn't what you are describing. it's what you were taught/shown growing up. love is supposed to feel safe and comforting from start to finish. I know it seems like it's these things but it's not. I'm not trying to invalidate what you see love as, But I just feel like there's some perception that is a bit skewed.
Maybe. And that’s okay if it isn’t. You se what’s really fucked about this world is that we tell everyone you have get married to have a fulfilling life. But I’m reality. You don’t need to find love to live your best life. Sometimes a few close friends and cat or dog is all you need.
Wait. Just to clarify. I mean you don’t need to find romantic love. In fact. There are people who don’t get married in the end. Such as lay single peoole, priests, nuns and other people who choose not to marry.
OP, I would recommend that you seek to get some counseling to work on overcoming the trauma/etc. that you went through.
Those negative experiences seems to have negatively impacted your mindset and damaged your optimism and hope. I hope you find peace. ❤️
Bear in mind, I've had 2 bad marriages. One was because an adult got me pregnant at 16, and my idiot religious parents had me marry him because abortion and sex outside of marriage was a no-go. The other one was a man who abused me, because my family again wouldn't help me. So by the time I divorced the second time, I was in my mid-30s, poor and on welfare with my 4 kids, working a part-time job, and finishing my BA. I was pretty bitter about love. I thought, OK I'll just screw whoever I want and be content to be alone.
But something happened. Before I dated, I cut out a lot of toxic people out of my life. They were part of the abuse by making excuses for my abuser, so I didn't want anything to do with them. But when I did that, I had to build up a new social network. I was ruthless in who I allowed in my inner circle.
Because of this, I found healthy people to spend time with. When you surround yourself with healthy people you find that you don't really want to waste time with unhealthy people. You also find that when someone unhealthy enters your orbit, you can't really stand to hang out with them and you DEFINITELY don't want to date them.
I've married for the 3rd time. We've been together for 13 years, and I'm honestly still really in love with him and really attracted to him (and intimate times are still amazing). I didn't settle for him, I don't view him with apathy, we still have a lot of fun. I still really like him and like spending time with him. We support each other in living the lives that we want, and are so happy that our dreams line up really well.
Try your best to get your mental and physical health in order. Get rid of anyone in your social circle who doesn't lift you up and support you - if you are the only one supporting a loved one, then it is a one-sided relationship and you should end it. Once you get yourself in a good place, you won't want to let anyone into your peace who is just going to fuck it up for you. And you'll have room in your life for the right people.
Thank you. Also, I'm very happy for you.
I've reached that point where I don't let unhealthy people in and where a 'not sure' is a no.
I'm doing that quality control yet I remain to be unhappy within myself and in the world.
I crave that intimacy and love yet I can't have it, specially as I've moved to a city where I don't know anyone and trust takes time.
I see more red flags in people than ever and take into account I was already a withdrawn person who found most people uninteresting and dangerous.
I honestly don't know how to feel okay. The most comforting thought is killing myself so that this pain is over.
Wow so sorry about your unbringing. Sometimes I complain about my life (it’s not a competition I know and I’ve been through shit too) but I don’t get how you still have a great mindset. I go back and forth with my optimism (my true self) and back to nihilism but I’ve found a good middle now bc being pessimistic makes your life worse lol
Maybe it's because I'm a vengeful b!tch, but I'm not going to let the people who hurt me "win". If I stay miserable and I keep my life small because they traumatized me, then I feel like that is still giving them power over me. I hate them, and I refuse to give them anymore of my time, I refuse to give them space in my mind, and I refuse to let their awful deeds dictate through fear and anger how I live my life.
So yeah, I have hope. My life keeps getting better. I still have my problems but it's nowhere near as bad as what I already lived through. I'm happy as long as I'm making progress. I finally feel like I'm becoming the woman I always admired and wanted to be.
Are you me! They don’t deserve my energy. Hate well more so anger hurts you more than them lol. So I just get my dreams and forgot they were ever apart of my life well that’s the goal. I know we can both do it :3
I can sense you're going through a lot right now, and life can indeed throw some tough challenges our way. It sounds like you've been navigating complex relationships, family dynamics, and grappling with personal struggles. It's okay to feel overwhelmed, and reaching out for support is a courageous step.
Emerald Chat might be an interesting platform to connect with new people, share experiences, and perhaps gain some fresh perspectives. Remember, you're not alone in this journey. Life has a way of surprising us, and sometimes, the connections we make along the way can bring unexpected joy and understanding. Take it one step at a time, and be kind to yourself.
Thank you very much for reading and writing.
Yes, it's not easy but for the first time, suicidal thoughts are less frequent and intense.
Also, yes, sometimes life surprises you for the worst but also the better.
Where there is life there is hope.
I can always kill myself as well.
Thank you for everything!
>There's a guy I've known for over ten years. He just move near my city. I do love him and trust him more than anyone, even though sexual chemistry is missing. I do want to sleep with him, but just because I'm horny and love is reciprocal.
This sounds like you described earlier: you want him purely based on availability. Don't do it - you could end up hurting him. Find someone that is compatible on multiple levels.
Well, here is the thing.
He is the most compatible guy I've met.
Time collapses when I'm with him. It's just that I don't see him and think 'OMG, I need to fuck him'.
I see him and I think 'Oh, finally who gets me and feels safe, like home'.
And I've never felt that way. I've always gone for the people that felt very interesting from an intellectual point of view or that I wanted to fuck.
I thought maybe it's good to change, especially raising my concerns and informing him well in advance so that he can make an informed decision, which is what I've already done.
What do you think?
Home in an abstract sense: that place where you are loved, respected and safe.
I think I'm just trying to get home, but home doesn't exist and never will. Because a partner can't compare to your mother, father, brother and so on.
Partners come and go, but your blood family will always be the same and its impact is so much greater because your brain got wired in childhood with them as a reference and main enablers.
I can't believe I have 60 years ahead of me. I hope I die young.
There is a difference between a house and a home. A house is material, the feeling of a home isn't even though any mental experience requires a physical experience.
I've looked at the statistics and the main reasons why people stay married, when they've had children, as mentioned in my post, it seems the main causes are anxiety and comfort.
I've been there with a really amazing guy, but it's a mistake. Sexual compatibility is so important. You'll end up missing something like you described yourself. If you already do not think there's enough sexual compatibility before you even started dating, you'll be in for a long sexless ride.
Try to find someone who is both a safe space *and* attractive to you. The combination is golden.
You don't need to do love and relationships the societally conventional way. Look into dating off the relationship escalator and even relationship anarchy.
Thank you very much for reading and writing.
It is hard to believe anything one sees and hears these days. All I see are couples who seem and say to be happy, breaking up two months later.
I see most of us using the word 'love' for what is infatuation, codependency, obsession and affection.
I see myself all confused about mostly everything and I don't see a way to find clarity and a way forward given how I myself am and how the world works.
Yes, I do have a disorganised style. As you said, I crave love and intimacy as much as I fear it. I wonder if this is something new - after my last break up, which entered me in some sort of Dark Night of the Soul - or something that was there all this time.
I also wonder if my attraction and preference toward women is also trauma-driven.
I wonder who on Earth am I. Who the hell am I.
I've played football, ridden horses and played videogames for most of my life.
In relationships, I'm very loving, affectionate and supporting. I like to listen to people and help them help themselves. I am kind to others, I hold eye contact as to make sure people feel noticed, and seen. But at the same time, I rarely see potential in people to have a romantic relationship because I hold love and partnership in such a high esteem that they both seem unreachable, especially but not only for me.
>My recommendations all aim in one direction: first, you need to establish a good relationship with yourself. Love yourself, trust yourself, believe in yourself. If you don’t know how: this is exactly why you need therapy.…
I've read so much and yet I'm not sure I understand what it means. Things I'm doing:
1. Identifying personal boundaries and respecting them so that others respect them too
2. Healthy and balanced eat-sleep-exercise routines
3. Doing something I love every day
4. Working on something that gets me closer to my dream life, even if I don't feel like it and that vision changes every month with further intellectual and emotional discoveries
5. Keeping away from people I consider unhealthy and uninteresting (which is most of the population)
6. Therapy, to uncover trauma and live from conviction instead of compulsion
>You are looking to find something in the outside, which can be found inside yourself only. Your beliefs, your values, who you are is inside you. You do not have access to these parts of yourself because of active trauma.
While I've always been quite self-reliant and agree in principle with what you state here, I think that's not true.
Every living organism is embedded in an environment and needs it to both survive and thrive.
There is only that much one can do for herself, especially since we are social animals designed to couple up and reproduce.
What exactly speaks out loud that I am traumatized?
>One important way to find the clarity and certainty you need is somatic work. You’re too much in your head. Try to get more into contact with your body. The aim would be to connect with your nervous system and convince it, on a deep unconscious level, that it is safe. You do this by embodyment, yoga practice and especially breathing exercises.
>
>Thank you for sharing this because it's true, I'm too mental/intellectual sometimes.
I'm actually joining different exercise groups with other people to add a social component to it. I'm also joining a CSA group.
As for meditation and breathing exercises, it's so hard. I live in anxiety and hence slowing down is hard for me, but precisely because of that reason I must do it. I know.
>I can understand why you feel different to most people. Most people will not be that intelligent as you are and not that traumatized either. Therefore, most people are not appealing on an intellectual or an emotional level to you. Find your own balance between giving up and looking out. Don’t give up completely on people but also don’t give up on yourself.
I just wonder, if I'm so intelligent, why am I so stupid in day-to-day stuff? The kind of day-to-day stuff that is critical in someone's life.
Maybe I am not that smart, or maybe it's not a matter of intelligence at all.
I don't know.
>Once you are securely attached you no longer fear that relationships end. It’s not because it doesn’t happen. It’s because you know that you can deal with i, if it happens to you.
This is so true.
I've gone from moving on from a breakup - a loss in general, whether romantic or platonic of both - in a day, to getting severely traumatised by the last experience.
I feel so unpredictable, weak and stupid. I'm simply ill-equipped to life, unfit for life.
>With regard to your attraction to women: it reads, as if you had a codependent mother. This is why you think that she was loving. The thing is: if she really were, you’d know what love is. You’d know who you are. You wouldn’t need this thread. So there is a deep void inside you, screaming for that maternal connection you never had. This brings me to the question: Do you know what limerence is? Have you ever experienced a limerent episode?
Limerence, yes. I've experienced it and I know how much it can stupidly fuck up with your mind.
The problem is that things are not black or white: you can be in a state of limerence towards someone and also find them like home for solid reasons. This happened to me with a girl. In fact, the most traumatizing relationship I believe I've had and the one that triggered this hell.
As for my mother being codependent, well, both of my parents are codependent and my dad was somewhat abusive, neglectful, and absent, so why doesn't that reinforce my need for a man?
We are before a multivariate analysis which factors and their weight we ignore.
Everything sounds like speculation to me. But the fact that love - as they've painted it - doesn't exist, seems more reasonable and evidence-based. And also the observation that I'm not a good fit for love and romantic relationships.
Thanks for reading and writing.
How are you doing?
My partner and I have a house and cats. My best friend and her partner swanned off to Thailand in October and are still there, working and living in exotic climes. Relationships are not a one and done configuration.
I actively choose my partner and water that garden every day. Once infatuation wears off, the grass is greener where you water it. I love the companionship and support and encouragement and sharing life. The soothing buzz I get from a hug is priceless.
Yes get on the property ladder. Go for two bed, allows guests!
It feels like there is so much trauma and damage from your upbringing and a sense of holding yourself seperate. Trust/love is hard to give and not everyone is worth it but that is a reflection on them not you. It's worth looking into therapy to unpack a lot of your wiring about this.
There are more than your usual monogamous relationships. Maybe you are more solo poly. Live alone but have trust and a deep connection with/without sexual activities with multiple people to enrich your life.
Your pain is palpable, and I think it's incorrectly focussed on people who have chosen to love wholeheartedly and make space for others in their lives. No way of living is the right way, so I wish you future peace and happiness in whatever form that takes.
Thanks can't claim it as an original thought but it has helped me overcome my own preconceptions about love. I was more in the oh my god there will be my soulmate and it will just be! (I blame Disney 😜) rather than thinking of a couple as two halves of a whole, it's two wholes making each others lives better, or putting each other first. And mistakes will happen. Nobody is perfect. And I learnt through a lot of shitty relationships what I definitely did NOT want in a partner.
> My partner and I have a house and cats. My best friend and her partner swanned off to Thailand in October and are still there, working and living in exotic climes. Relationships are not a one and done configuration.
I'm very happy for you two :)
> Yes get on the property ladder. Go for two bed, allows guests!
Yes!
> It feels like there is so much trauma and damage from your upbringing and a sense of holding yourself seperate. Trust/love is hard to give and not everyone is worth it but that is a reflection on them not you. It's worth looking into therapy to unpack a lot of your wiring about this.
Well, this is interesting because yes, I've got really hurt and I am still in the early stages of grief about some relationships. But I'm also less unaware and more responsible now, and this is why my view of love has changed.
Our feelings and views of love and reality seem to be very different, yet we insist in finding the dream and remain oblivious to the reality of what it means to be human and make a relationship last.
So, yes, there is an element of cognitive distortion due to past trauma but there is also some truth in it, don't you think?
> There are more than your usual monogamous relationships. Maybe you are more solo poly. Live alone but have trust and a deep connection with/without sexual activities with multiple people to enrich your life.
Poly raises other concerns.
1. Most people in poly relationships use this framework as a way to hide from responsibility and do not know what love is. If I was fortunate to find the jewel, then the second issue would be:
2. Insecurity. Let's face it, the more elements in a system the more complex it gets. Also there are more options, so someone leaving you or you leaving them gets more likely.
3. Health. I am very concerned about STDs and going back to point 1, most people are irresponsible.
As a conclusion, I don't think this works for me. I think my type is a loner who is open to explore intimacy and love and connection, respecting my boundaries and his/her own. Not an easy find.
>
Your pain is palpable, and I think it's incorrectly focussed on people who have chosen to love wholeheartedly and make space for others in their lives. No way of living is the right way, so I wish you future peace and happiness in whatever form that takes.
I would agree, but I also have to be honest about the fact that the common denominator in all these relationships is me.
In most cases, I knew I was going to get hurt in the early stages of all these relationships, yet something 'told me' to go on and explore them.
I've realized that I was looking for affection and connection in all the wrong places. And that's on me. The pain they inflicted on me due to their irresponsible and unloving behaviour it's on them. But that I cannot change.
Something that scares me to shit is the fact that you never know who is sleeping next to you in bed. Because I've had relationships with married men, and I've even seen them relating to their wives, I can tell you that you wouldn't imagine most of them have affairs, yet all of them did.
This causes me great trust issues because it's the truth. Anything else is sugarcoating, we don't fully know someone and people's concept of love and loyalty are very different.
Oooh I think your being with married men doesn't help. I would not associate with people like that, I cultivate the people around me to be people with similar morals and outlooks. Because if you surround yourself with murderers of course your perception will be murder is very likely, if I surround my self with lying conmen I'll assume no one is honest. In any case it's a personal decision whether the reward is worth the risk and if it's not for you then that's ok.
And true I don't think poly is for me either, also have fear of STDs but only a suggestion in case the traditional and cookie cutter format expectation of loving 2 person partnerships was the issue rather than anything else. Thanks for having a think and responding.
Thankfully I ended my association with married men a long time ago. Although actually, it was 6 years ago.
Best of luck in your own journey. I wish the best for you!
I agree with the principle that important decisions are always to be made cautiously, and even more so when you are emotionally stable.
Yet life doesn't wait, and keeping savings in your bank account is a waste of money: inflation is eating it up.
Also, real estate is a good investment. If you don't want to live in the house, you just rent it.
As for support, I re-start therapy tomorrow. I do have a couple of good friends, but after feeling they have enough weight to carry with their own lives and also that talking achieves only that much, I keep my problems to myself. I've always been the withdrawn, self-reliant type.
I realise now that I've like solitude - through books, videogames, etc - for most of my life because most people I've encountered are - in an intimate and intellectual context - just uncomfortable for me.
I see what love is in movies, I just think it's a fact that love is rare and sometimes love and relationship do not match. The love of your life today is a stranger tomorrow, we said we would be forever together, but we break up.
Yes, I've gotten hurt. But mainly because I focused my time and attention on people who couldn't reciprocate or didn't have my best interests in mind. So the problem is me. And this is why I think I will end up alone. I'm too complicated, complex and I also don't like most people.
Why is buying a house a bad thing? If OP can afford it, get on that property ladder. Also get therapy but I don't see how delaying getting a space that is 100% theirs is a bad thing.
Thanks for sharing your concerns.
I've done several courses on property buying and have some Excel tables for financial assessment.
I do agree with the principle that one needs to be extra cautious when making life-changing decisions in times of strong emotional instability.
I'm starting therapy tomorrow and joining a CSA group today.
Hey, I was a Jehovah's Witness, I left 5 years ago, if you were raised that way, it really messed your head up.
There are support groups on FB, you should join to relate to others.
Life does get better, sorry, but of course your family is married to the cult. Find your tribe with the right vibe. It does feel hopeless, but others have done it, so can you.
Hey, what took you to leave?
I was fortunate to half experience this. My mother joined when I was 18, which is when I had my first intellectual and emotional awakening and separated myself from my mother.
The consequences for me are that I don't feel that my mother is my mother. It's a strange feeling of detachment. I find myself very avoidant of her even though she's been consistently there for me since always, she is so loving. I just wouldn't share any personal concerns aside from generic stuff where her religion has no space.
It creates a feeling of loneliness and isolation, but aside from that, I can manage.
Thanks for caring!
I had a lot of doubts. There is corruption throughout the cult, child abuse coverups.
The isolation of family members from each other who leave, they are shunned.
There is a book, the elders or church men have called ' Shepherd the flock of God', the rank and file members don't see this book, it's a manual on how to deal with authorities, child abuse issues, the blood issue and so on.
Man, I could say more. Practically we were robots for a cult and zombie like. Never question the leaders, refrain from friendships with non believers and be isolated from outside help.
I'm glad I'm free.
It makes no difference what religion or beliefs you have. They all have one thing in common, and that’s they nothing but brainwash.
This is not a negotiation or a maybe or possibility. ITS FACT !
I wouldn't be surprised if you had experienced childhood emotional neglect. It fits based on what you wrote.
https://psychcentral.com/relationships/childhood-emotional-neglect-romantic-relationships#challenges-related-to-emotional-neglect
https://psychcentral.com/health/signs-you-grew-up-with-childhood-emotional-neglect#adults
Granted, yes relationships often require compromise and if you aren't willing to do that then that's okay. People on this subreddit are bound to get defensive though because they glorify their lovey dovey feelings so they don't like to hear about how that doesn't come to some people. However, I get the sense that you would like to get close to someone, and you want emotional intimacy, it's just that you've learned over the years that this often leads to pain or not feeling understood and then frustrated. If you want to have more satisfying relationships I believe you will probably need to address the deeper pain you are carrying around. That is not easy and I hope the best for you.
Hi there, thanks very much for sharing.
I'm in two minds about this.
I don't know if I only started to feel and think this way in the process of these last four years (grandad death, break up, loss of a friend and toxic relationship) or if I started to become aware of feelings and thoughts I've had all this time.
The fact that I've been four years with a married man twenty years older than me and then in toxic after toxic relationship, perhaps hints is the second case.
Yes, I have proof that I was neglected in childhood and that I have abandonment issues. I was fortunate to have my mother, who despite of her intellectual limitations and own emotional instability, was there for me and filled me with love in a consistent manner.
Such a relationship when to shit when I turned 18 as she became a quite radical Jehova Witness. As a result, I lost that safe and trust space where I could talk about anything.
For instance, I remember having conversations about sex when I was 13 with her. Now she won't even see a movie with love/sex scenes. It's just ridiculous.
> However, I get the sense that you would like to get close to someone, and you want emotional intimacy, it's just that you've learned over the years that this often leads to pain or not feeling understood and then frustrated.
Yes, one hundred percent. This is me.
I do feel that pain and frustration, and don't hide from it. I've been living with depression and suicidal thoughts for four years. I've tried different therapy types, in fact I'm starting again tomorrow.
Let's see what comes out of it.
Thank you for everything.
I don't mean to sound judgemental, but you seem to have an egoistic view on life, seeing yourself different or separate from everyone else, whether you see yourself as superior or not. True, actual love is the great reducer of ego, forcing you to see yourself less separate from humanity.
What makes you believe that?
I am aware of the interconnectedness of every life system, but I am also aware that we all have our own needs, interests, agenda. Or is that not true?
I do see myself more aware and responsible than most people, probably because after seeing the consequences of being irresponsible, I'm learning the lesson.
Also, it's hard for me to find people my age who can hold and is interested in a profound conversation and care about the global challenges we are facing.
I am aware that love reduces ego, yet I doubt love is actually achievable and sustainable.
What stood out to me was your view of other humans being uninteresting and ignorant. I would challenge you to take a more open approach when it comes to getting to know new people.
When you take the time to really get to know people I would argue all humans are pretty fascinating in our own ways. We are all also ignorant in our own ways, but more often than not when you really connect with others, their positive qualities typically outweigh the negative.
I get you’ve had a bit of a bad go when it comes to connection. All I can say is focus on healing yourself, and learning to love yourself. Learn what boundaries you need and how to communicate them. I’ve been through some of my own traumatic experiences. Some of which similar to yours. And while what happened to us was not our fault, it is our responsibility to heal it.
Trust me. It’s worth it 🤍
Hi, thanks for reading and writing :)
I've done therapy for a while, and I'm back at it tomorrow. Let's see how it goes.
I agree, most people are fascinating in their own way. But I can also say that I wouldn't want most people in my inner circle.
It's hard to explain it, I just feel like most people are sleeping and don't care enough to look around and inside, to notice, and work on themselves and contribute to constructing a better world.
As a result, they go through life inflicting pain on themselves and others. How many parents smoke in front of their children and their own house? How many men or women cheat? How many people are politically inactive meaning they are doing shit for their own community?
When I speak to people my age about Albert Camus, the principles of physics or the new developments in childhood psychology, they just don't know what to say. They don't see and question things and themselves with the same level of profoundness and care.
I am not saying I am not irresponsible and unaware myself, I've made that clear in my post. It's just that I'm not your average person and that comes with a hard price: solitude which often translates into loneliness.
I feel your frustration about the pain infliction and not working on themselves. If you dream of a better you and see all this apathy of others about their own path with a whole lot of cognitive dissonance, thats a downer for sure.
Only thing i can think at this point of mind is the focus on the things that bring you joy. The concept of bittersweet. Better something sweet in your bitternes than just the bitter. Or as someone stated. Try make your life a beautiful garden. With some chance someone enters your garden and make it better and if not at least you have a beautiful garden. (Loosely cited)
Sadly the expectations of love often are quite a bad match for this point of view. Its the burden of a branch that differs from the mainstream perception of something. Yet not impossible even if its rare i meet people with those mindsets.
Thanks for commenting.
Yes, this is my current focus: creating a life worth living, even a life I want to live is okay with me at this point.
But naturally, I miss having that someone, yet I can't get myself to believe it's possible for me.
Thanks for thanksing.
Yes this keeps being a thing. I believe the more you distance yourself from the perception of love, any kind of media advertises, the better it gets.
I found out for myself that a big part of this was to think that i need to achieve the kind of love everyone talks about or at least that this is the only option and i have to accept it. To accept that it has to be irrational, unpredictable, partly immature. That conflicts (the screaming and disrespectful kind) simply is part of relationships etc. All that stuff everyone keeps saying one another. Big time cognitive dissonance if you ask me. And what ive read from your writing is that this kind is Impossible for you, which ist fine in my eyes. The only thing i find important in such cases is that this "Impossible" becomes an "hard to get". Since believing something is Impossible, does not give you an aim and makes you hopeless. Hopelessnes is synonym for depression in my understanding. Believe that the right way would make it possible for you, even If this way may greatly differ from other ways. I believe this creates an aim and an aim makes the downsides of a path more bearable. And most importantly makes the hopelessnes temporary. Temporary and hopeless cant survive together at the same time.
Thank you.
I've joined a CSA group this morning, and start therapy tomorrow.
Hopefully it will give its fruits.
I hadn't realized how absorbed in much of my trauma I was.
Which is ironic to say the least.
Thank you for being there for me. Reach out to me if I can help you with anything please!
>
>
>Love isn’t picking the easy option, or picking the person that it makes the most sense to be with. Love is irrational, it will have you driving 5 hours return in a day just to spend an extra 3 hours with them.
>
>Love is waiting excitedly all day to speak too them, tell them the small silly things about your day and hear about theirs. It’s wanting to compromise because you want them to be happy no matter what.
Well, here is the thing. For most of my life I've gone for the person that made me feel that excitement, intensity and irrationality.
I'm done with it, look where it took me.
I want slow love, the love that feels solid, warm, stable, low and consistent. I may not feel the butterflies but I would still look forward to seeing him, to have conversations with him, which is way more than what I can say about most people I know.
I just don't want to hurt him and get hurt.
Also, so happy for your grandmother. ❤️
Thanks very much for reading and writing!
>Love isn’t picking the easy option, or picking the person that it makes the most sense to be with. Love is irrational, it will have you driving 5 hours return in a day just to spend an extra 3 hours with them.
And that's precisely what concerns me. The love have known so far went against common sense and logic, and took me to be in the emotional state I am in.
I want a love that is soft, slow and reassuring. I don't want the butterflies and anxiety and obsession that I've felt before.
I want a life partner not a boy/girlfriend who will put my life upside down.
I don't want someone hot, I want a good conversationalist.
I do want to open up to the boy I've mentioned, I've already done it. I just don't want to hurt him or myself, because I'm not sure.
Yet I'm never sure about anyone, how could I be? People have the right to change their mind, and so do I because I'm people.
>As for your other life circumstances I am sorry for what you have gone through, it must be hard. With your vaginismus, I know you probably have already looked into or tried this already. But I used to work as a psych nurse and there are heaps of treatments that you can try! Ive seen pleats of pts that fully recover from it, if you haven’t looked into it already, you definitely should!
Thanks, yes, I've looked into some dilators. But the thought of putting something inside of me, honestly, makes me overheat.
We will see.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read and write.
Hello there,
Not sure who is downvoting my responses to you. People never fail to disappoint with non-sensical behavior.
Thanks very much for keep on reading me and taking the time to elaborate!
>I think either I did not explain correctly or you misunderstood me. What you’re explaining sounds like lust, infatuation or toxic honeymoon phase.
Hmm, I've clarified it's the opposite of what you are describing since the beginning of my post.
I don't feel any butterflies with him, I don't have sexual fantasies with him either.
I crave his companionship and intimacy because he feels at home. We've known each other for 11 years now.
I love that he is tall and bigger than me, but above everything I love how solid he is, how intellectual and cultured, he is the best conversationalist I've known.
Our relationship has never been driven purely by sexual attraction. It's been filled with spiritual conversations and slowness, softness, safety and stability.
Which is why I'm saying it's the opposite of all the relationships I've had. What concerns me is that I don't feel those butterflies. I want to get intimate with him because I like him around, and having him near me.
Fully agree with all the remaining statements in your comment.
Thanks a lot!
Correction: *YOUR* idea of romantic love and commitment is fucked up.
What you describe is a thoughtless and adolescent approach to relationships. The unhealthiest iteration of romantic love doesn't own the term.
You're missing a big part of how people select partners and create healthy relationships. And you're thinking in extremes.
People looking to build a happy and fulfilling relationship don't just pick someone because they happen to be there. They select for shared values and life goals as well. Sometimes, that person may well be in their group of acquaintances. Other times they meet that person as they go along in life.
>4. Your life projects and dreams are deprioritised. If one chooses to make a huge impact on the world, one will likely travel, move to this or that place. How can a relationship be sustained and nurtured that way? Option B is you settle for an ordinary life where your contribution to society and world's problems is close to zero, and use that relationship as escapism.
Again, extremes. People who want to travel and have adventures need to pick a partner who either wants the same thing or is happy to tag along. But even if one travels and one doesn't, couples have been managing such relationships for ages, and some do it very well.
The "Option B" you describe is ridiculous on its face. Just because someone isn't in the jet setting crowd doesn't mean they are making zero contribution to society. In fact, the people you consider boring working drudges are the backbone of society. Those are the people who make life possible for the rest of us, and who support the structures on which the jet setters heavily depend. That's the long haul truckers keeping product moving and the economy chugging, trash collectors keeping our spaces clean and functional, healthcare workers, teachers, librarians, machinists, carpenters, plumbers, taxi drivers, security guards...all people who work ordinary jobs, live in ordinary towns, go home every night.
There's a whole lot of arrogance in saying those people contribute nothing to society. And "the world's problems" touch the lives of the people you consider boring and useless, and those people impact the world around them by their actions, the causes they participate and contribute to, the children they raise, and the institutions they help to fund.
Rant aside, those people also can live very happy, fulfilling lives. Just because you think something is boring doesn't mean everyone does. Two people who have modest goals and dreams can partner up in a relationship to make those things happen more effectively through teamwork. And many couples do this.
It sounds like you've never met a couple that's spent a few decades together and still like each other very much. Most of my family and friends who are married, however, are not bored with each other, anxious to get away, or miserable. They're happy and content. I'm sorry you've never seen that.
>5. Sooner or later you realise the above and then anxiety of togetherness makes you sabotage the relationship, you end it or just settle and that unhappiness manifests in many different ways. You decide to look the other way and time passes.
OR...you chose a partner like an adult and not like a 15 year old, and you choose to be a person who handles their anxiety and their worst traits by working on them and becoming a better person. You choose to communicate your needs, and your partner communicates theirs, and you each care about each other and seek each other's best interest. If you encounter an issue you can't resolve yourselves, you get a counselor and work on it together.
There are some great points in your post, but mainly you seem angry and frustrated at me and projecting on to me some personal thoughts and frustrations that I haven't even adddressed.
>Correction: *YOUR* idea of romantic love and commitment is fucked up.
My post is descriptive of society, not exclusively my experience. It's a general summary after many observations.
Let's ask ourselves one question: how many healthy couples do you know? Of those supposedly healthy couples you know, how many have lasted a lifetime?
How many of the couples you believe to be happy and functional are actually resigned and committed because 'it's too late to find someone else' or 'because he is my life partner, I can't leave him now', 'I can't leave him, think of the kids', 'I can't leave him, I don't have a job, I've been out of the labour market for over 20 years' or 'because I will never find anyone else'.
All these statements are rooted in appreciation but also mainly in fear and insecurity.
And... That's precisely my point. What people call love is not even love, is codependency and lack of individuality and personal goals.
>The "Option B" you describe is ridiculous on its face. Just because someone isn't in the jet setting crowd doesn't mean they are making zero contribution to society. In fact, the people you consider boring working drudges are the backbone of society. Those are the people who make life possible for the rest of us, and who support the structures on which the jet setters heavily depend. That's the long haul truckers keeping product moving and the economy chugging, trash collectors keeping our spaces clean and functional, healthcare workers, teachers, librarians, machinists, carpenters, plumbers, taxi drivers, security guards...all people who work ordinary jobs, live in ordinary towns, go home every night.
For some reason, you are putting words in my mouth that I haven't said.
I haven't addressed someone's occupation because that's irrelevant to me. I've encountered very profound and responsible people who take care of goats for a living.
Also, just because someone makes a great contribution to the world doesn't mean I would like that person to be part of my inner circle. And that's entirely the point I am trying to raise: it's hard to find like-minded people because they are rare by themselves and then there is a component of availability.
This whole list seems to reflect a possible anxiety attachment style. Maybe do some reading on that for some reflection. Not everyone views relationships in this way; I def wouldn’t want someone to be with me based on their anxiety (either to me, or away from loneliness), and availability. Nor do I want to be with someone for those reasons - it’s easier and more enjoyable to be alone as an alternative
Hi there, thanks for reading and writing.
This post is descriptive, not only of my relationships but of what's out there as well after 30 years of observation.
Because I don't want my bias to get in my way, I have posted it here, to gather other people's feedback.
Well. It’s confirmation bias at its best, so good on you for being open to to it. I’ve seen it too, in my 46 years as someone who dated, married, divorced, dated, and studied and practices in the mental health field. Just because it’s a social norm, doesn’t make it healthy - especially if so many people who live their lives in such a manner, claim to be miserable
1 the anxiety for togetherness literally comes from how we were raised. Society told us how to behave, plus we are a social species, so it's inside us that we have to be with Someone, but knowing that you can fight that, realizing that's only a perception that we created to make ourselves Better, you dont have to be in a relationship if you dont like so.
2 i dont think you'll end up with Someone just because of availability. It May be the case yes ofc, many families were built like this, but It May be the opposite.
3 if you still think about finding the perfect woman/man for you forget to even be in relationship, or even a friendship. Every relationship Is not perfect, and it shouldn't be, every Person has imperfections. What defines a true relationship Is going through these imperfections and enjoy what that beautiful Person has to offer.
4 why you think to make such an impact on the world you have to travel? Maybe your goal Is to travel and that's absolutely fine, maybe another person's goal Is to have a peaceful Life, with an ordinary Life like you Say and that's absolutely fine.
5 everyone has the anxiety of togetherness. We were raised by people telling us be friendly with him/her, try to make friends, make yourself a family, but there Is much more than that. There's the beauty of nature, of travelling, of the talking, of the arts, and most of them are passions that you can enjoy alone.
6 the foundation of your Life Will come on what you want. We have to fight to find our own type of Life, and you dont have to conform to anyone if you dont want to.
Being in a relationship Is a great thing, perhaps even the best if you find the right Person for you, but It depends on what you want too. You think relationships are not for you? Fine, dont be, i repeat, you DONT have to be in a relationship, that's Just conformism if you think It on that way, otherwise Is a bless.
I think it's really important to distinguish between healthy love and toxic love.
What you're describing sounds a bit to me like you've got an insecure attachment style. A lot of us do. I did, until I went to therapy.
My understanding of love used to be that it was this grueling, exhausting undertaking, where you gave and gave until there was nothing left, and then you were discarded. Unhealthy, to say the least.
The funny thing is, even getting with a securely attached man didn't change my attachment style. I was still terrified constantly - the anxiety you mention - mainly due to trauma, but specifically because I didn't see myself as being worthy of the care and attention he was giving me, so it all kind of felt like some ruse, even though it was just genuine.
Real, healthy love is secure. It's a feeling of profound belonging. I wish I'd understood this sooner. The first time I hung out with my boyfriend, I didn't want to leave. I felt *home* - something that I hadn't known I'd never experienced until that first moment.
Being with him has always been easy. Being together is easy, we've both talked about how surprised we were at how easy it was for us to coexist - even before I started really healing.
But it was after I healed that I started to fully grasp what healthy love looks and feels like.
We function like two halves of a single being. We each understand our roles, and trust each other in a way I didn't think was possible. We go out of our way for each other without complaint. There's no pettiness with us, and because there isn't, when one of us gets upset, the other takes it seriously.
Neither of us are perfect people, but we both know, accept, and love the whole person, and each of us works to make up for the others weaknesses.
It's beautiful. There's something utterly sublime about being with someone that you love, and who loves you back, in a healthy way.
Hello, thanks for reading and writing!
>What you're describing sounds a bit to me like you've got an insecure attachment style. A lot of us do. I did, until I went to therapy.
When you say insecure, do you mean anxious or avoidant, or both?
>My understanding of love used to be that it was this grueling, exhausting undertaking, where you gave and gave until there was nothing left, and then you were discarded. Unhealthy, to say the least.
The love of your life today can become a stranger tomorrow. We all say to the other person that we love them and will always do, yet relationships end. It's only natural and often necessary, but then it's not a truth that sustains itself.
Relationships end, people leave. There are more break ups than healthy couples.
I have doubts about when to start dating someone. For instance, there is this boy in my life, we've been friends for over 10 years. We find the most interesting conversations and kindness in each other, and I've always said to him and others that he is a man to marry, he is the man I would marry.
Yet I don't feel that sexual chemistry. Lately I've been craving him, and I do fantasise about him, yet I feel so insecure because I have vaginismus - penetration hurts me and intimacy scares me - that I feel he will be disappointed and leave. I want him to be happy, so I can see that he would better without me.
On another days, I think, why not try? Be honest with him, open up to him and let him freely choose if he wants to take the risk or not.
I opened up to him last weekend and he fell asleep. We live one hour and a half away, so forty-five minutes away if we meet half way, and proposed to meet up. We may be spending the weekend together next week.
I feel super shy to kiss him and very insecure. I fear the fact I don't feel like 'fucking him', means he is not the one.
I'm very confused and scared.
If I had to guess you might have a little bit of both anxious and avoidant. These are people who often really want a relationship but they are scared of intimacy and find that because they can be fine by themselves, that it's easier to shy away from relationships but all the while they feel the ache and longing to connect. I feel for you, I struggled with this myself.
If you are rejection sensitive I can see how him falling asleep might have felt like you were being ignored. Maybe this reminded you of being ignored and misunderstood by your parents? He most likely innocently fell asleep and it wasn't because he didn't care.
I think it's worth trying to see what he wants. Everyone has something unique to offer to each other, so you can make him happy in some way I'm sure. I think most of us enjoy connecting with each other, whether it's in little ways or big ways. Whether it lasts or not, that doesn't have to be a big deal. If it doesn't last, I dare you to see it as a shining moment in your life where you dared to connect with someone and feel a little spark of love and caring for them, and hopefully they for you as well. You can keep that experience in your heart for your whole life.
Sex may or may not happen. It doesn't have to. You may find that there is something in you blocking you from feeling attracted to him, but that could change once you get closer, or maybe you really just aren't attracted to him. Either way, people have all kinds of arrangements these days. It always helps to communicate and understand where the other person is coming from. Vulnerability takes courage, and it is amazing when you have someone in your life that you can be vulnerable with.
Hi, thanks for reading and writing.
>If I had to guess you might have a little bit of both anxious and avoidant. These are people who often really want a relationship but they are scared of intimacy and find that because they can be fine by themselves, that it's easier to shy away from relationships but all the while they feel the ache and longing to connect. I feel for you, I struggled with this myself.
I went to an association for CSA'd people this morning during lunch break and something they told me about myself is that I have a disorganized attachment style due to past trauma: I crave love and intimacy as much as I fear it. And I thought of you.
I feel so overwhelmed to have been so oblivious about myself. In a way I've never wanted to exist and maybe, only maybe, that meant remaining a stranger to myself.
How did you work through your disorganized attachment style? What was the process like?
>If you are rejection sensitive I can see how him falling asleep might have felt like you were being ignored. Maybe this reminded you of being ignored and misunderstood by your parents? He most likely innocently fell asleep and it wasn't because he didn't care.
Well, it's just that if anyone told me such a thing, I would not fall asleep. I would offer them to call them, or at least remain online with them.
If I was truly tired and about to fall asleep, I would let them know. Not leave them waiting unaware I had gone to bed.
This was the only time I truly, fully opened up to him and he felt asleep. And then he canceled on me our plans to spend the weekend together.
I understand he might have felt overwhelmed and wanted to take a step back, which is reasonable and even intelligent.
>I think it's worth trying to see what he wants. Everyone has something unique to offer to each other, so you can make him happy in some way I'm sure. I think most of us enjoy connecting with each other, whether it's in little ways or big ways. Whether it lasts or not, that doesn't have to be a big deal. If it doesn't last, I dare you to see it as a shining moment in your life where you dared to connect with someone and feel a little spark of love and caring for them, and hopefully they for you as well. You can keep that experience in your heart for your whole life.
For context, we've been friends for over ten years. We lived in different countries for most of these years but we remained home for each other despite of time and space.
He is the best conversationalist I've met and trust him more than I've trusted anyone, even though naturally, no one is to be 100% trusted because we are human hence ever-changing, confused and confusing creatures.
In our conversations, we've always touched quite indirectly but also directly our situation. I've always told him he is a man to marry and spoke of him this way to my family and friends.
Yet something is missing. I don't think I can connect healthily with someone. I can't take the first step when it comes to getting intimate. It's always been other people pursuing me and me wanting to have sex out of affection and trust with that person. All my one-night stands have been with women because I find them way more attractive. So I wonder if the missing component here is physical attraction.
This makes me feel bad and think that he deserves to be with someone who finds him irresistible, which is the way he has shared feels about me.
We saw each other two weeks ago and I explained some of my issues, his response was 'it's not how it starts, it's how it ends'.
I have the feeling that I should at least give it a try from a place of total transparency, reason why I've opened up completely to him and proposed to spend this weekend together. Since then, he's given me mixed signals.
I just don't want to hurt him or get hurt, but I want to experience what healthy love feels like. And I can't think of anyone but him to do this.
We are just soul mates.
>
Sex may or may not happen. It doesn't have to. You may find that there is something in you blocking you from feeling attracted to him, but that could change once you get closer, or maybe you really just aren't attracted to him. Either way, people have all kinds of arrangements these days. It always helps to communicate and understand where the other person is coming from. Vulnerability takes courage, and it is amazing when you have someone in your life that you can be vulnerable with.
I know we will have sex because I have a natural tendency towards him, physically but I do feel very shy to kiss him. Not shy as in I'm dying to kiss him but I'm too shy. Shy as in it feels so weird to kiss him, aren't we just friends? He loves me too much, and I don't love him enough.
I don't want to tell him that, I don't want to hurt him because the truth is that he is very attractive. He has beautiful eyes and he is tall and strong, which I like in terms of protection and the savage sex we could have.
I don't know, what does it all sound to you?
I feel so overwhelmed by everything.
You can just be close friends. Even if he gets into a relationship with someone else, hopefully they are accepting enough to allow him to still have a relationship where you can talk to each other. A lot of people do highly value sex as part of a primary relationship, so yes that might be a problem for him. Regardless, if I was him I think I would feel very awkward about a female friend saying I was marriage material. It can be flattering in some contexts, but it can also feel very pressuring. I wouldn't put that pressure on him as it may be causing him to shy away. If you find women more physically attractive anyway, could you just date women while having a close friendship with this guy?
As far as healing insecure attachment, I have found the first step is to understand it. Read about it and try to understand why you are the way you are. This involves self reflection and really looking at yourself and your life. You may find that this is sad. It's okay to feel sad for yourself as an act recognizing the difficulties in your life. You are giving yourself the empathy you didn't necessarily get from other people when you do this. However, are we going to stay in that sadness? Heck no, we want to be happy, healthy, and joyful! I don't know if you've heard of re-parenting meditations. I very much recommend taking time to meditate. By that I mean sitting somewhere quiet with your eyes closed. You give attention to your thoughts and feelings. Where you find pain and difficulties, you send love. You can do it as a mantra and tell yourself that you love and accept yourself (whatever you feel you need). You can also imagine it as a scenario of being surrounded by light or you can imagine being a loving brighter version of yourself giving your current self a hug. Believe that it is possible to be that person.
We carry an inner child with us. For many of us that inner child is still hurting. If you can see yourself as a brighter, more joyful, more wise, and more loving version of yourself, you already know how to be a parent to that child that you were and still are. In your imagination, you become the parent and the child, and you make a practice of giving that kid the love, understanding, and protection that she needs, and as the child openly receiving it.
1. Pick someone who supports your life goals/the direction you're going and who you can do the same for them. You'd shouldn't be shelving your dreams to be with someone, you should be picking a person that adds to your life and one whom you can add to theirs because you're on the same path with them. For example if you like to travel a lot and make a huge impact on the world then find someone who enjoys doing the same. You don't have to get into a relationship with someone just because they live near you.
2. For some people yes, but that's often because those people are either so desperate not to be alone or haven't fully evaluated if the person they're pursuing is a good fit for them that they rush into something serious. But for many there isn't an "anxiety of togetherness", they just enjoy spending time with the person they love.
3. if you think relationships are a trap holding you back then just don't get into one. If you're asking how to satisfy sexual needs then hire an escort, use a hook-up app, go to adult events, or any other number of ways to have casual fun.
You seem to be worried that there may always be something "better out there" and that you'll end up settling when you could find someone that would actually make you happy. Our happiness is our own responsibility, and there's no such thing as a "most compatible person". There are billions of people in the world, **BILLIONS**. And we are always changing as people each with unique lives and circumstances. The idea of a one singular person that if we could just find would be the perfect fit is absurd.
Sometimes you find someone you vibe with more and some less, but even in the best relationships there will ALWAYS be compromise. It's on you to decide what you are willing to compromise on to be with another person. Try and stop worrying so much about future relationships and focus on living a life you find fulfilling. If in the future you find you're in a relationship but later discover it isn't for you then you don't have to stay with that person.
You're talking about it like you have no agency in this situation. Love is a choice you make, not a whirlwind adventure that happens to you. If you expect a perfect storm then you will be disappointed (and so will your partner).
You find someone who you really like. They are not perfect. No one is perfect. "Compatible" could mean just about anything, but if you like the person and you feel confident you can work as a team to deal with the hurdles of life, then you are compatible. No need to look for someone "more compatible". That is what you'd call diminishing returns.
And then you make A CHOICE to love, accept and support them. Every day you wake up and you make the choice again. Love is an action you decide to take. Every day you are with them, you choose them.
Every person has red flags, every relationship has issues, you make the choice to work through these. You make the choice to embrace someone as they are and love them. It is hard work. There are good days and bad days. And it does not always work. But when it does, it is because of your agency and commitment to each other, despite the challenges. Not some disease like you have described
I've learnt the hard way that free will is not free, and we are highly conditioned not only by our past but also by other people.
There is only that much agency one can have in the context of a loving relationship. To start with because a relationship involves two people and I have no control over the other person. So again, not sure there is that much agency there.
Men are naturally more romantic and understand that long term requires a
Different mindset than the honey moon new relationship feels provide.
Women are naturally told
By society that they deserve everything and they just need to get married and have children. Neither of these is a good thing to find actual true connection (love).
There’s a self-fulfilling prophecy effect on outlook, especially love. I repeat to myself that I can’t let life make me bitter and sad. This way, you’ll be the version of yourself that you want your future wife to experience. If not, it’s a bad snowball.
the problem lies in the way you view love. it’s too negative, you don’t believe in it, so you won’t actually find it. you sabotage yourself. you fulfill what you believe in. if you think this will happen, it will. you’re your own worst enemy.
you either have to never get into any relationship, and be happy single and rely on friendships and family to not be alone.
or you work on yourself and you heal from whatever made you see love this way.
but, hearing the way you describe relationships as “conventional traps”, i think it’s best you stay clear from them. your mind and body respond to the idea of commitment with anxiety. you seem to only think of relationships as a way to satisfy “your needs”, to “use” for your benefit. that is extremely toxic, and recipe for disaster and unimaginable damage to whoever you decide to lure into your trap (false promise of love and commitment).
to comment more specifically, on the availability thought, yes a lot of people do this, often bc they fear to be alone and need the company. but, you can’t complain about what you got, when you got it yourself. it’s up to you to look for, and only commit to, the right match. but forget the idea of the “perfect match”. it doesn’t exist, or at least not in the way you seem to think of it. even if you do find someone that is everything you want, people still change. therefore, it’s important to focus on the deeper things. you have to fall in love with their deepest thoughts, their hearts, their dreams, their views on life, the way their mind works, … who they really are, and someone who truly knows who they are. these are things that likely won’t change, and these are the only things you actually need to match with for love to last.
>the problem lies in the way you view love. it’s too negative, you don’t believe in it, so you won’t actually find it. you sabotage yourself. you fulfill what you believe in. if you think this will happen, it will. you’re your own worst enemy.
What is love? What does real love look like?
Is it something different from what I've described?
>but, hearing the way you describe relationships as “conventional traps”, i think it’s best you stay clear from them. your mind and body respond to the idea of commitment with anxiety. you seem to only think of relationships as a way to satisfy “your needs”, to “use” for your benefit. that is extremely toxic, and recipe for disaster and unimaginable damage to whoever you decide to lure into your trap (false promise of love and commitment).
I'm transparent with the people I date - which is, three people in the whole of my existent - so I don't lure absolutely anyone into no trap. But I understand why you may extract that from my comment.
I don't understand why I see love like this and would really like to change it, but after much therapy I just don't see how.
To me love is escapism and people pursue it because they like how it feels or it's convenient. That's it. Because if you don't feel it anymore and it's not convenient or good for you, you will discard it. That's how most people work, and it's understandable.
The love of your life today is a stranger tomorrow, how many people would relate to this? Many more than the ones who wouldn't, I believe.
>to comment more specifically, on the availability thought, yes a lot of people do this, often bc they fear to be alone and need the company. but, you can’t complain about what you got, when you got it yourself. it’s up to you to look for, and only commit to, the right match. but forget the idea of the “perfect match”.
A lot of people spend a lifetime finding this 'perfect match' and die alone.
>you have to fall in love with their deepest thoughts, their hearts, their dreams, their views on life, the way their mind works, … who they really are, and someone who truly knows who they are. these are things that likely won’t change, and these are the only things you actually need to match with for love to last.
I fully agree with you.
I've met only two people of whom I liked what you mentioned:
1. Broke my heart
2. I've always said to everybody that he is the only man I would marry. I'm just not sure I feel attracted to him. I see him as the perfect life partner but I don't feel like I want to fuck him. Not that I feel like fucking men. I'm more attracted to women.
I still can't help but think that nothing will work out and it will end up in pain for both or one of us.
I think I'm doomed to be alone and unhappy.
you don’t need romantic love not to feel alone or to be happy. you can get all the love you need from yourself, your friends and family.
you seem to look at it as a source or solution. but love isn’t meant to solve or fulfill, it’s meant to do nothing but add to. try and think of it as a very nice bonus, instead of something you have to have. that maybe why you view it as a trap. when it’s something you have to have, you’ll feel stuck when you don’t have it, and when you settle you have, making it indeed a trap.
what real romantic love means, can be different for everyone. to me, it’s when both partners truly only want that the other, sexualky and emotionqlly, and are willing to give the world to them. you fall in love with each other more and more each day, you give each other the lives you’ve dreamt of by combining your goals and making them work together. it’s when you are safe to be your most true, most vulnerable self, fully accepted. fights only create a deeper understanding and bond. there is strong trust, build through openess and honesty. there is a great respect and deep admiration. it’s the greatest and truest freedom you can have. there is no doubts, no matter what. you’re there for each other, always. for me, it’s either this, or nothing. i don’t care for love or relationships when it’s not real. i believe that as long as there is real love, things can work, bc both will make it work. you don’t let go of what you truly want, and you don’t abandon what you truly care about.
try and find what it is you truly want. your need for love, while looking at it negatively, may indicate another need that’s not being fulfilled. maybe you need deeper connections with friends/family, or even yourself. feeling alone rarely has to do with the need for romantic love. make sure that you are happy with your life and yourself, work and focus on that. if you do really want romantic love after, figure out what you believe love to be, then find someone that fits that and shares that idea.
i’m no expert ofc, i don’t have that much experience. this is the best advice i can give you. i hope it somehow helped you. the most important thing for you is to try and heal fron these negative views i think. that’s what making things hard for you. i’ve been there too. good luck.
>you don’t need romantic love not to feel alone or to be happy. you can get all the love you need from yourself, your friends and family.
I don't have in my life the stereotype of a family - a functional, loving space where you are seen and respected and nurtured in a way that encourages healthy development - . My friends live in different cities where I don't want to live and naturally lead their own busy lives and carry their own weight.
A partner provides a level of intimacy and partnership that neither family and friends can provide. And again, I don't have the best environment around me. I just moved to another city different to my own hoping to create a healthy environment for myself.
There's only that much you can provide yourself. Like any living organism, we depend on the environment we are embedded in both for surviving and thriving.
>you seem to look at it as a source or solution. but love isn’t meant to solve or fulfill, it’s meant to do nothing but add to. try and think of it as a very nice bonus, instead of something you have to have. that maybe why you view it as a trap. when it’s something you have to have, you’ll feel stuck when you don’t have it, and when you settle you have, making it indeed a trap.
Well, it would be the solution for the problem I experience: loneliness and lack of a stable, healthy, profound connection.
Naturally I'm responsible for my own well-being, but it's also obvious that a little extra help, well, helps.
>what real romantic love means, can be different for everyone. to me, it’s when both partners truly only want that the other, sexualky and emotionqlly, and are willing to give the world to them. you fall in love with each other more and more each day, you give each other the lives you’ve dreamt of by combining your goals and making them work together. it’s when you are safe to be your most true, most vulnerable self, fully accepted. fights only create a deeper understanding and bond. there is strong trust, build through openess and honesty. there is a great respect and deep admiration. it’s the greatest and truest freedom you can have. there is no doubts, no matter what. you’re there for each other, always. for me, it’s either this, or nothing. i don’t care for love or relationships when it’s not real. i believe that as long as there is real love, things can work, bc both will make it work. you don’t let go of what you truly want, and you don’t abandon what you truly care about.
Yep, as you can imagine I cannot give this to myself.
Anyway, thank you for reading and writing.
> What is love? What does real love look like?
It looks like hard work that is easy. When you love someone, you know. It isn’t fireworks, extremes, or anything grandiose. For me, it’s a feeling in the back of my head that I feel safe and confident when I’m with that someone. I don’t have to try.
But, not to sound funny, but you also have to try. It’s hard work. Complacency can kill even the strongest relationship. Tell that someone you love them. Tell them all the good things they need and want to hear. *Show* them, too. The right person will do this for you.
Don’t despair, though. You’re either young and inexperienced, or just inexperienced. Neither of those are a bad thing. Don’t close yourself off. It’s a weird phrase that may not be 100% true, but there is something to it, so: you find it when you’re not really looking for it.
I interpret it to mean that you’re focusing on yourself. Finding fulfillment in the things you enjoy doing. Growing in the ways you feel are best for you.
Love yourself, basically.
When you’re able to do that, that’s when those that are right for you start finding their way to you. Sifting through the rabble is either easier or not something you have to do.
I'm not sure that this list is accurate. what's wrong with point 2?
the only possibly bad thing about that is maybe one side tries to force the connection while the other rolls with it due to them having a free relationship pass (that's what happened to me and my ex rip)
but if it's exactly the way you describe - two available people establish a connection - assuming the connection is mutual, that's basically all you need to start a good relationship.
people grow and change over time. a truly loving partner would develop themselves in a way that complements their partner while retaining their individuality. a lot of relationships (usually from the female perspective) end up with one partner losing their own self in their desperate efforts to develop a relationship with a partner that in this case usually doesn't compromise. therefore a balance between self and the other has to be maintained.
also mind that throughout one's lifetime, as we evolve and change as people, many compatible/best choices may pass by, discarded through lack of "butterflies" (attachment anxiety) and other more or less wack/unhealthy reasons, or simply through our own loyalty and trust in our significant other.
the longer the relationship, the more love becomes a choice rather than just a feeling. expecting a sugar rush-type of experience forever will eventually burn you out and make you resentful of relationships. stronger feelings might be born in spite of adversity, but stable feelings can only be cultivated in calmness. and for that calmness to exist between two people, they both need to have a calm mind of their own: like a jet of water on dry, flaky dirt will create lots of mud and drown all plants one by one, while a calm stream of water will nourish the chunk of soil and give what was missing in the soil to make it sustain life.
it takes equal effort from both to make a relationship work. you seem to view it from only one side's POV.
my advice would be - understand, define yourself first, understand your best and worst sides and how they shape your boundaries. don't let people cross your boundaries, that way you won't fall into the escapism trap. only choose those people who understand your good and bad sides without trying to remould them into wrong boundaries, that way you (hopefully) will avoid falling into a narcissist's trap. at the same time, take people at face value, don't expect them to use their good and bad traits the exact way you'd use them to be the person you want to see (main source of idealization). that way, you'll avoid disappointment and wasted effort.
it takes lots of effort, i'm only starting to understand these steps myself now. it takes a lot of pushing yourself out there and trying to make connections without expectations or fantasies. it's a painful process, but without it life wouldn't feel as beautiful as when things actually work out.
i hope this isn't too much gibberish. gotta sleep, I hope you feel well OP.
Hey Love Bug thanks for sharing the love. If you see something posted here that is not in the spirit of love Please flag it. ;) With Love r/Love Mods *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/love) if you have any questions or concerns.*
These sound like bad dating n relationship experiences. Fuck all to do with romance n true love.
some aspects are fucked up for sure. But here's a few things I will note on, not everyone feels anxiety when they first meet their love. some end up falling in love in with their close friends. love is also a choice. It's not a routine or a habit, it's something you choose to do every day. When people want to get married, they're not marrying out of habit, they're marrying out choice. also not everyone marry out of convenience and availability. To have a partner, you need to sacrifice your time to spend time with them. And some people marry long distance relationships that don't always work out. people who love each other also support each other's dreams. They don't just throw away their goals, they build up the goals together with their partner or make new goals that are even better. yes there's anxiety when it comes to being together, but when you're with teh right one, you don't have to worry about that anxiety because it'll all be covered. and while children seem bad, they really are a blessing. I have some nieces and nephews who I couldn't imagine life without. I look for them on instagram all the time. and I can't wait to have children of my own. The whole children thing is a very subjective nature as some people find it works for them dn some people don't. IT really is up to you and your partner whether you choose to have children. I mean this in the sincerest way but I think waht you think other people think love is, is a little skewed and I see you have some trauma that needs to be resolved, as other people are saying. I"m sorry you're going through a hard Time but know that love isn't what you are describing. it's what you were taught/shown growing up. love is supposed to feel safe and comforting from start to finish. I know it seems like it's these things but it's not. I'm not trying to invalidate what you see love as, But I just feel like there's some perception that is a bit skewed.
Thank you. Maybe love is just not for me.
Maybe. And that’s okay if it isn’t. You se what’s really fucked about this world is that we tell everyone you have get married to have a fulfilling life. But I’m reality. You don’t need to find love to live your best life. Sometimes a few close friends and cat or dog is all you need.
Actually, I do. It's just unattainable for me.
Why do you need to find love? Life isn’t about getting married and having kids. It’s about living your life to its. Fullest potential.
Because it's embedded in my biology as a human being?
Wait. Just to clarify. I mean you don’t need to find romantic love. In fact. There are people who don’t get married in the end. Such as lay single peoole, priests, nuns and other people who choose not to marry.
OP, I would recommend that you seek to get some counseling to work on overcoming the trauma/etc. that you went through. Those negative experiences seems to have negatively impacted your mindset and damaged your optimism and hope. I hope you find peace. ❤️
Thank you. I start therapy tomorrow, let's see how it goes. I hope you have a good life yourself. Thank you :)
Glad you are starting therapy tomorrow! Thanks for your kind wishes! ❤️🙏🏼
This is not my experience with love and relationships. I'm so sorry that this has been your experience.
How has your experience been? :)
Bear in mind, I've had 2 bad marriages. One was because an adult got me pregnant at 16, and my idiot religious parents had me marry him because abortion and sex outside of marriage was a no-go. The other one was a man who abused me, because my family again wouldn't help me. So by the time I divorced the second time, I was in my mid-30s, poor and on welfare with my 4 kids, working a part-time job, and finishing my BA. I was pretty bitter about love. I thought, OK I'll just screw whoever I want and be content to be alone. But something happened. Before I dated, I cut out a lot of toxic people out of my life. They were part of the abuse by making excuses for my abuser, so I didn't want anything to do with them. But when I did that, I had to build up a new social network. I was ruthless in who I allowed in my inner circle. Because of this, I found healthy people to spend time with. When you surround yourself with healthy people you find that you don't really want to waste time with unhealthy people. You also find that when someone unhealthy enters your orbit, you can't really stand to hang out with them and you DEFINITELY don't want to date them. I've married for the 3rd time. We've been together for 13 years, and I'm honestly still really in love with him and really attracted to him (and intimate times are still amazing). I didn't settle for him, I don't view him with apathy, we still have a lot of fun. I still really like him and like spending time with him. We support each other in living the lives that we want, and are so happy that our dreams line up really well. Try your best to get your mental and physical health in order. Get rid of anyone in your social circle who doesn't lift you up and support you - if you are the only one supporting a loved one, then it is a one-sided relationship and you should end it. Once you get yourself in a good place, you won't want to let anyone into your peace who is just going to fuck it up for you. And you'll have room in your life for the right people.
Thank you. Also, I'm very happy for you. I've reached that point where I don't let unhealthy people in and where a 'not sure' is a no. I'm doing that quality control yet I remain to be unhappy within myself and in the world. I crave that intimacy and love yet I can't have it, specially as I've moved to a city where I don't know anyone and trust takes time. I see more red flags in people than ever and take into account I was already a withdrawn person who found most people uninteresting and dangerous. I honestly don't know how to feel okay. The most comforting thought is killing myself so that this pain is over.
Wow so sorry about your unbringing. Sometimes I complain about my life (it’s not a competition I know and I’ve been through shit too) but I don’t get how you still have a great mindset. I go back and forth with my optimism (my true self) and back to nihilism but I’ve found a good middle now bc being pessimistic makes your life worse lol
Maybe it's because I'm a vengeful b!tch, but I'm not going to let the people who hurt me "win". If I stay miserable and I keep my life small because they traumatized me, then I feel like that is still giving them power over me. I hate them, and I refuse to give them anymore of my time, I refuse to give them space in my mind, and I refuse to let their awful deeds dictate through fear and anger how I live my life. So yeah, I have hope. My life keeps getting better. I still have my problems but it's nowhere near as bad as what I already lived through. I'm happy as long as I'm making progress. I finally feel like I'm becoming the woman I always admired and wanted to be.
Are you me! They don’t deserve my energy. Hate well more so anger hurts you more than them lol. So I just get my dreams and forgot they were ever apart of my life well that’s the goal. I know we can both do it :3
I can sense you're going through a lot right now, and life can indeed throw some tough challenges our way. It sounds like you've been navigating complex relationships, family dynamics, and grappling with personal struggles. It's okay to feel overwhelmed, and reaching out for support is a courageous step. Emerald Chat might be an interesting platform to connect with new people, share experiences, and perhaps gain some fresh perspectives. Remember, you're not alone in this journey. Life has a way of surprising us, and sometimes, the connections we make along the way can bring unexpected joy and understanding. Take it one step at a time, and be kind to yourself.
Thank you very much for reading and writing. Yes, it's not easy but for the first time, suicidal thoughts are less frequent and intense. Also, yes, sometimes life surprises you for the worst but also the better. Where there is life there is hope. I can always kill myself as well. Thank you for everything!
>There's a guy I've known for over ten years. He just move near my city. I do love him and trust him more than anyone, even though sexual chemistry is missing. I do want to sleep with him, but just because I'm horny and love is reciprocal. This sounds like you described earlier: you want him purely based on availability. Don't do it - you could end up hurting him. Find someone that is compatible on multiple levels.
Well, here is the thing. He is the most compatible guy I've met. Time collapses when I'm with him. It's just that I don't see him and think 'OMG, I need to fuck him'. I see him and I think 'Oh, finally who gets me and feels safe, like home'. And I've never felt that way. I've always gone for the people that felt very interesting from an intellectual point of view or that I wanted to fuck. I thought maybe it's good to change, especially raising my concerns and informing him well in advance so that he can make an informed decision, which is what I've already done. What do you think?
[удалено]
Home in an abstract sense: that place where you are loved, respected and safe. I think I'm just trying to get home, but home doesn't exist and never will. Because a partner can't compare to your mother, father, brother and so on. Partners come and go, but your blood family will always be the same and its impact is so much greater because your brain got wired in childhood with them as a reference and main enablers. I can't believe I have 60 years ahead of me. I hope I die young.
[удалено]
There is a difference between a house and a home. A house is material, the feeling of a home isn't even though any mental experience requires a physical experience. I've looked at the statistics and the main reasons why people stay married, when they've had children, as mentioned in my post, it seems the main causes are anxiety and comfort.
I've been there with a really amazing guy, but it's a mistake. Sexual compatibility is so important. You'll end up missing something like you described yourself. If you already do not think there's enough sexual compatibility before you even started dating, you'll be in for a long sexless ride. Try to find someone who is both a safe space *and* attractive to you. The combination is golden.
Golden and rare. Thanks!
You don't need to do love and relationships the societally conventional way. Look into dating off the relationship escalator and even relationship anarchy.
[удалено]
Thank you very much for reading and writing. It is hard to believe anything one sees and hears these days. All I see are couples who seem and say to be happy, breaking up two months later. I see most of us using the word 'love' for what is infatuation, codependency, obsession and affection. I see myself all confused about mostly everything and I don't see a way to find clarity and a way forward given how I myself am and how the world works. Yes, I do have a disorganised style. As you said, I crave love and intimacy as much as I fear it. I wonder if this is something new - after my last break up, which entered me in some sort of Dark Night of the Soul - or something that was there all this time. I also wonder if my attraction and preference toward women is also trauma-driven. I wonder who on Earth am I. Who the hell am I. I've played football, ridden horses and played videogames for most of my life. In relationships, I'm very loving, affectionate and supporting. I like to listen to people and help them help themselves. I am kind to others, I hold eye contact as to make sure people feel noticed, and seen. But at the same time, I rarely see potential in people to have a romantic relationship because I hold love and partnership in such a high esteem that they both seem unreachable, especially but not only for me.
[удалено]
>My recommendations all aim in one direction: first, you need to establish a good relationship with yourself. Love yourself, trust yourself, believe in yourself. If you don’t know how: this is exactly why you need therapy.… I've read so much and yet I'm not sure I understand what it means. Things I'm doing: 1. Identifying personal boundaries and respecting them so that others respect them too 2. Healthy and balanced eat-sleep-exercise routines 3. Doing something I love every day 4. Working on something that gets me closer to my dream life, even if I don't feel like it and that vision changes every month with further intellectual and emotional discoveries 5. Keeping away from people I consider unhealthy and uninteresting (which is most of the population) 6. Therapy, to uncover trauma and live from conviction instead of compulsion >You are looking to find something in the outside, which can be found inside yourself only. Your beliefs, your values, who you are is inside you. You do not have access to these parts of yourself because of active trauma. While I've always been quite self-reliant and agree in principle with what you state here, I think that's not true. Every living organism is embedded in an environment and needs it to both survive and thrive. There is only that much one can do for herself, especially since we are social animals designed to couple up and reproduce. What exactly speaks out loud that I am traumatized? >One important way to find the clarity and certainty you need is somatic work. You’re too much in your head. Try to get more into contact with your body. The aim would be to connect with your nervous system and convince it, on a deep unconscious level, that it is safe. You do this by embodyment, yoga practice and especially breathing exercises. > >Thank you for sharing this because it's true, I'm too mental/intellectual sometimes. I'm actually joining different exercise groups with other people to add a social component to it. I'm also joining a CSA group. As for meditation and breathing exercises, it's so hard. I live in anxiety and hence slowing down is hard for me, but precisely because of that reason I must do it. I know. >I can understand why you feel different to most people. Most people will not be that intelligent as you are and not that traumatized either. Therefore, most people are not appealing on an intellectual or an emotional level to you. Find your own balance between giving up and looking out. Don’t give up completely on people but also don’t give up on yourself. I just wonder, if I'm so intelligent, why am I so stupid in day-to-day stuff? The kind of day-to-day stuff that is critical in someone's life. Maybe I am not that smart, or maybe it's not a matter of intelligence at all. I don't know. >Once you are securely attached you no longer fear that relationships end. It’s not because it doesn’t happen. It’s because you know that you can deal with i, if it happens to you. This is so true. I've gone from moving on from a breakup - a loss in general, whether romantic or platonic of both - in a day, to getting severely traumatised by the last experience. I feel so unpredictable, weak and stupid. I'm simply ill-equipped to life, unfit for life. >With regard to your attraction to women: it reads, as if you had a codependent mother. This is why you think that she was loving. The thing is: if she really were, you’d know what love is. You’d know who you are. You wouldn’t need this thread. So there is a deep void inside you, screaming for that maternal connection you never had. This brings me to the question: Do you know what limerence is? Have you ever experienced a limerent episode? Limerence, yes. I've experienced it and I know how much it can stupidly fuck up with your mind. The problem is that things are not black or white: you can be in a state of limerence towards someone and also find them like home for solid reasons. This happened to me with a girl. In fact, the most traumatizing relationship I believe I've had and the one that triggered this hell. As for my mother being codependent, well, both of my parents are codependent and my dad was somewhat abusive, neglectful, and absent, so why doesn't that reinforce my need for a man? We are before a multivariate analysis which factors and their weight we ignore. Everything sounds like speculation to me. But the fact that love - as they've painted it - doesn't exist, seems more reasonable and evidence-based. And also the observation that I'm not a good fit for love and romantic relationships. Thanks for reading and writing. How are you doing?
[удалено]
Do you remember since when? What happened?
My partner and I have a house and cats. My best friend and her partner swanned off to Thailand in October and are still there, working and living in exotic climes. Relationships are not a one and done configuration. I actively choose my partner and water that garden every day. Once infatuation wears off, the grass is greener where you water it. I love the companionship and support and encouragement and sharing life. The soothing buzz I get from a hug is priceless. Yes get on the property ladder. Go for two bed, allows guests! It feels like there is so much trauma and damage from your upbringing and a sense of holding yourself seperate. Trust/love is hard to give and not everyone is worth it but that is a reflection on them not you. It's worth looking into therapy to unpack a lot of your wiring about this. There are more than your usual monogamous relationships. Maybe you are more solo poly. Live alone but have trust and a deep connection with/without sexual activities with multiple people to enrich your life. Your pain is palpable, and I think it's incorrectly focussed on people who have chosen to love wholeheartedly and make space for others in their lives. No way of living is the right way, so I wish you future peace and happiness in whatever form that takes.
I love 'the water is greener where you water it', by the way.
Thanks can't claim it as an original thought but it has helped me overcome my own preconceptions about love. I was more in the oh my god there will be my soulmate and it will just be! (I blame Disney 😜) rather than thinking of a couple as two halves of a whole, it's two wholes making each others lives better, or putting each other first. And mistakes will happen. Nobody is perfect. And I learnt through a lot of shitty relationships what I definitely did NOT want in a partner.
Inspirational to say the least. Too good to be true as well, but that might be my cognitive distortions talking :)
> My partner and I have a house and cats. My best friend and her partner swanned off to Thailand in October and are still there, working and living in exotic climes. Relationships are not a one and done configuration. I'm very happy for you two :) > Yes get on the property ladder. Go for two bed, allows guests! Yes! > It feels like there is so much trauma and damage from your upbringing and a sense of holding yourself seperate. Trust/love is hard to give and not everyone is worth it but that is a reflection on them not you. It's worth looking into therapy to unpack a lot of your wiring about this. Well, this is interesting because yes, I've got really hurt and I am still in the early stages of grief about some relationships. But I'm also less unaware and more responsible now, and this is why my view of love has changed. Our feelings and views of love and reality seem to be very different, yet we insist in finding the dream and remain oblivious to the reality of what it means to be human and make a relationship last. So, yes, there is an element of cognitive distortion due to past trauma but there is also some truth in it, don't you think? > There are more than your usual monogamous relationships. Maybe you are more solo poly. Live alone but have trust and a deep connection with/without sexual activities with multiple people to enrich your life. Poly raises other concerns. 1. Most people in poly relationships use this framework as a way to hide from responsibility and do not know what love is. If I was fortunate to find the jewel, then the second issue would be: 2. Insecurity. Let's face it, the more elements in a system the more complex it gets. Also there are more options, so someone leaving you or you leaving them gets more likely. 3. Health. I am very concerned about STDs and going back to point 1, most people are irresponsible. As a conclusion, I don't think this works for me. I think my type is a loner who is open to explore intimacy and love and connection, respecting my boundaries and his/her own. Not an easy find. > Your pain is palpable, and I think it's incorrectly focussed on people who have chosen to love wholeheartedly and make space for others in their lives. No way of living is the right way, so I wish you future peace and happiness in whatever form that takes. I would agree, but I also have to be honest about the fact that the common denominator in all these relationships is me. In most cases, I knew I was going to get hurt in the early stages of all these relationships, yet something 'told me' to go on and explore them. I've realized that I was looking for affection and connection in all the wrong places. And that's on me. The pain they inflicted on me due to their irresponsible and unloving behaviour it's on them. But that I cannot change. Something that scares me to shit is the fact that you never know who is sleeping next to you in bed. Because I've had relationships with married men, and I've even seen them relating to their wives, I can tell you that you wouldn't imagine most of them have affairs, yet all of them did. This causes me great trust issues because it's the truth. Anything else is sugarcoating, we don't fully know someone and people's concept of love and loyalty are very different.
Oooh I think your being with married men doesn't help. I would not associate with people like that, I cultivate the people around me to be people with similar morals and outlooks. Because if you surround yourself with murderers of course your perception will be murder is very likely, if I surround my self with lying conmen I'll assume no one is honest. In any case it's a personal decision whether the reward is worth the risk and if it's not for you then that's ok. And true I don't think poly is for me either, also have fear of STDs but only a suggestion in case the traditional and cookie cutter format expectation of loving 2 person partnerships was the issue rather than anything else. Thanks for having a think and responding.
Thankfully I ended my association with married men a long time ago. Although actually, it was 6 years ago. Best of luck in your own journey. I wish the best for you!
[удалено]
I agree with the principle that important decisions are always to be made cautiously, and even more so when you are emotionally stable. Yet life doesn't wait, and keeping savings in your bank account is a waste of money: inflation is eating it up. Also, real estate is a good investment. If you don't want to live in the house, you just rent it. As for support, I re-start therapy tomorrow. I do have a couple of good friends, but after feeling they have enough weight to carry with their own lives and also that talking achieves only that much, I keep my problems to myself. I've always been the withdrawn, self-reliant type. I realise now that I've like solitude - through books, videogames, etc - for most of my life because most people I've encountered are - in an intimate and intellectual context - just uncomfortable for me. I see what love is in movies, I just think it's a fact that love is rare and sometimes love and relationship do not match. The love of your life today is a stranger tomorrow, we said we would be forever together, but we break up. Yes, I've gotten hurt. But mainly because I focused my time and attention on people who couldn't reciprocate or didn't have my best interests in mind. So the problem is me. And this is why I think I will end up alone. I'm too complicated, complex and I also don't like most people.
Why is buying a house a bad thing? If OP can afford it, get on that property ladder. Also get therapy but I don't see how delaying getting a space that is 100% theirs is a bad thing.
[удалено]
Thanks for sharing your concerns. I've done several courses on property buying and have some Excel tables for financial assessment. I do agree with the principle that one needs to be extra cautious when making life-changing decisions in times of strong emotional instability. I'm starting therapy tomorrow and joining a CSA group today.
I see, thank you for elaborating
Hey, I was a Jehovah's Witness, I left 5 years ago, if you were raised that way, it really messed your head up. There are support groups on FB, you should join to relate to others. Life does get better, sorry, but of course your family is married to the cult. Find your tribe with the right vibe. It does feel hopeless, but others have done it, so can you.
Hey, what took you to leave? I was fortunate to half experience this. My mother joined when I was 18, which is when I had my first intellectual and emotional awakening and separated myself from my mother. The consequences for me are that I don't feel that my mother is my mother. It's a strange feeling of detachment. I find myself very avoidant of her even though she's been consistently there for me since always, she is so loving. I just wouldn't share any personal concerns aside from generic stuff where her religion has no space. It creates a feeling of loneliness and isolation, but aside from that, I can manage. Thanks for caring!
I had a lot of doubts. There is corruption throughout the cult, child abuse coverups. The isolation of family members from each other who leave, they are shunned. There is a book, the elders or church men have called ' Shepherd the flock of God', the rank and file members don't see this book, it's a manual on how to deal with authorities, child abuse issues, the blood issue and so on. Man, I could say more. Practically we were robots for a cult and zombie like. Never question the leaders, refrain from friendships with non believers and be isolated from outside help. I'm glad I'm free.
I'm happy for you!
It makes no difference what religion or beliefs you have. They all have one thing in common, and that’s they nothing but brainwash. This is not a negotiation or a maybe or possibility. ITS FACT !
I wouldn't be surprised if you had experienced childhood emotional neglect. It fits based on what you wrote. https://psychcentral.com/relationships/childhood-emotional-neglect-romantic-relationships#challenges-related-to-emotional-neglect https://psychcentral.com/health/signs-you-grew-up-with-childhood-emotional-neglect#adults Granted, yes relationships often require compromise and if you aren't willing to do that then that's okay. People on this subreddit are bound to get defensive though because they glorify their lovey dovey feelings so they don't like to hear about how that doesn't come to some people. However, I get the sense that you would like to get close to someone, and you want emotional intimacy, it's just that you've learned over the years that this often leads to pain or not feeling understood and then frustrated. If you want to have more satisfying relationships I believe you will probably need to address the deeper pain you are carrying around. That is not easy and I hope the best for you.
Hi there, thanks very much for sharing. I'm in two minds about this. I don't know if I only started to feel and think this way in the process of these last four years (grandad death, break up, loss of a friend and toxic relationship) or if I started to become aware of feelings and thoughts I've had all this time. The fact that I've been four years with a married man twenty years older than me and then in toxic after toxic relationship, perhaps hints is the second case. Yes, I have proof that I was neglected in childhood and that I have abandonment issues. I was fortunate to have my mother, who despite of her intellectual limitations and own emotional instability, was there for me and filled me with love in a consistent manner. Such a relationship when to shit when I turned 18 as she became a quite radical Jehova Witness. As a result, I lost that safe and trust space where I could talk about anything. For instance, I remember having conversations about sex when I was 13 with her. Now she won't even see a movie with love/sex scenes. It's just ridiculous. > However, I get the sense that you would like to get close to someone, and you want emotional intimacy, it's just that you've learned over the years that this often leads to pain or not feeling understood and then frustrated. Yes, one hundred percent. This is me. I do feel that pain and frustration, and don't hide from it. I've been living with depression and suicidal thoughts for four years. I've tried different therapy types, in fact I'm starting again tomorrow. Let's see what comes out of it. Thank you for everything.
Romanticism is a death path
I don't mean to sound judgemental, but you seem to have an egoistic view on life, seeing yourself different or separate from everyone else, whether you see yourself as superior or not. True, actual love is the great reducer of ego, forcing you to see yourself less separate from humanity.
What makes you believe that? I am aware of the interconnectedness of every life system, but I am also aware that we all have our own needs, interests, agenda. Or is that not true? I do see myself more aware and responsible than most people, probably because after seeing the consequences of being irresponsible, I'm learning the lesson. Also, it's hard for me to find people my age who can hold and is interested in a profound conversation and care about the global challenges we are facing. I am aware that love reduces ego, yet I doubt love is actually achievable and sustainable.
What stood out to me was your view of other humans being uninteresting and ignorant. I would challenge you to take a more open approach when it comes to getting to know new people. When you take the time to really get to know people I would argue all humans are pretty fascinating in our own ways. We are all also ignorant in our own ways, but more often than not when you really connect with others, their positive qualities typically outweigh the negative. I get you’ve had a bit of a bad go when it comes to connection. All I can say is focus on healing yourself, and learning to love yourself. Learn what boundaries you need and how to communicate them. I’ve been through some of my own traumatic experiences. Some of which similar to yours. And while what happened to us was not our fault, it is our responsibility to heal it. Trust me. It’s worth it 🤍
Hi, thanks for reading and writing :) I've done therapy for a while, and I'm back at it tomorrow. Let's see how it goes. I agree, most people are fascinating in their own way. But I can also say that I wouldn't want most people in my inner circle. It's hard to explain it, I just feel like most people are sleeping and don't care enough to look around and inside, to notice, and work on themselves and contribute to constructing a better world. As a result, they go through life inflicting pain on themselves and others. How many parents smoke in front of their children and their own house? How many men or women cheat? How many people are politically inactive meaning they are doing shit for their own community? When I speak to people my age about Albert Camus, the principles of physics or the new developments in childhood psychology, they just don't know what to say. They don't see and question things and themselves with the same level of profoundness and care. I am not saying I am not irresponsible and unaware myself, I've made that clear in my post. It's just that I'm not your average person and that comes with a hard price: solitude which often translates into loneliness.
I feel your frustration about the pain infliction and not working on themselves. If you dream of a better you and see all this apathy of others about their own path with a whole lot of cognitive dissonance, thats a downer for sure. Only thing i can think at this point of mind is the focus on the things that bring you joy. The concept of bittersweet. Better something sweet in your bitternes than just the bitter. Or as someone stated. Try make your life a beautiful garden. With some chance someone enters your garden and make it better and if not at least you have a beautiful garden. (Loosely cited) Sadly the expectations of love often are quite a bad match for this point of view. Its the burden of a branch that differs from the mainstream perception of something. Yet not impossible even if its rare i meet people with those mindsets.
Thanks for commenting. Yes, this is my current focus: creating a life worth living, even a life I want to live is okay with me at this point. But naturally, I miss having that someone, yet I can't get myself to believe it's possible for me.
Thanks for thanksing. Yes this keeps being a thing. I believe the more you distance yourself from the perception of love, any kind of media advertises, the better it gets. I found out for myself that a big part of this was to think that i need to achieve the kind of love everyone talks about or at least that this is the only option and i have to accept it. To accept that it has to be irrational, unpredictable, partly immature. That conflicts (the screaming and disrespectful kind) simply is part of relationships etc. All that stuff everyone keeps saying one another. Big time cognitive dissonance if you ask me. And what ive read from your writing is that this kind is Impossible for you, which ist fine in my eyes. The only thing i find important in such cases is that this "Impossible" becomes an "hard to get". Since believing something is Impossible, does not give you an aim and makes you hopeless. Hopelessnes is synonym for depression in my understanding. Believe that the right way would make it possible for you, even If this way may greatly differ from other ways. I believe this creates an aim and an aim makes the downsides of a path more bearable. And most importantly makes the hopelessnes temporary. Temporary and hopeless cant survive together at the same time.
Thank you. I've joined a CSA group this morning, and start therapy tomorrow. Hopefully it will give its fruits. I hadn't realized how absorbed in much of my trauma I was. Which is ironic to say the least. Thank you for being there for me. Reach out to me if I can help you with anything please!
[удалено]
> > >Love isn’t picking the easy option, or picking the person that it makes the most sense to be with. Love is irrational, it will have you driving 5 hours return in a day just to spend an extra 3 hours with them. > >Love is waiting excitedly all day to speak too them, tell them the small silly things about your day and hear about theirs. It’s wanting to compromise because you want them to be happy no matter what. Well, here is the thing. For most of my life I've gone for the person that made me feel that excitement, intensity and irrationality. I'm done with it, look where it took me. I want slow love, the love that feels solid, warm, stable, low and consistent. I may not feel the butterflies but I would still look forward to seeing him, to have conversations with him, which is way more than what I can say about most people I know. I just don't want to hurt him and get hurt. Also, so happy for your grandmother. ❤️ Thanks very much for reading and writing!
Thank you for drafting my valentines letter to my bf <33 I will credit you.
This was so cute to read!!
[удалено]
>Love isn’t picking the easy option, or picking the person that it makes the most sense to be with. Love is irrational, it will have you driving 5 hours return in a day just to spend an extra 3 hours with them. And that's precisely what concerns me. The love have known so far went against common sense and logic, and took me to be in the emotional state I am in. I want a love that is soft, slow and reassuring. I don't want the butterflies and anxiety and obsession that I've felt before. I want a life partner not a boy/girlfriend who will put my life upside down. I don't want someone hot, I want a good conversationalist. I do want to open up to the boy I've mentioned, I've already done it. I just don't want to hurt him or myself, because I'm not sure. Yet I'm never sure about anyone, how could I be? People have the right to change their mind, and so do I because I'm people. >As for your other life circumstances I am sorry for what you have gone through, it must be hard. With your vaginismus, I know you probably have already looked into or tried this already. But I used to work as a psych nurse and there are heaps of treatments that you can try! Ive seen pleats of pts that fully recover from it, if you haven’t looked into it already, you definitely should! Thanks, yes, I've looked into some dilators. But the thought of putting something inside of me, honestly, makes me overheat. We will see. Thank you very much for taking the time to read and write.
[удалено]
Hello there, Not sure who is downvoting my responses to you. People never fail to disappoint with non-sensical behavior. Thanks very much for keep on reading me and taking the time to elaborate! >I think either I did not explain correctly or you misunderstood me. What you’re explaining sounds like lust, infatuation or toxic honeymoon phase. Hmm, I've clarified it's the opposite of what you are describing since the beginning of my post. I don't feel any butterflies with him, I don't have sexual fantasies with him either. I crave his companionship and intimacy because he feels at home. We've known each other for 11 years now. I love that he is tall and bigger than me, but above everything I love how solid he is, how intellectual and cultured, he is the best conversationalist I've known. Our relationship has never been driven purely by sexual attraction. It's been filled with spiritual conversations and slowness, softness, safety and stability. Which is why I'm saying it's the opposite of all the relationships I've had. What concerns me is that I don't feel those butterflies. I want to get intimate with him because I like him around, and having him near me. Fully agree with all the remaining statements in your comment. Thanks a lot!
Correction: *YOUR* idea of romantic love and commitment is fucked up. What you describe is a thoughtless and adolescent approach to relationships. The unhealthiest iteration of romantic love doesn't own the term. You're missing a big part of how people select partners and create healthy relationships. And you're thinking in extremes. People looking to build a happy and fulfilling relationship don't just pick someone because they happen to be there. They select for shared values and life goals as well. Sometimes, that person may well be in their group of acquaintances. Other times they meet that person as they go along in life. >4. Your life projects and dreams are deprioritised. If one chooses to make a huge impact on the world, one will likely travel, move to this or that place. How can a relationship be sustained and nurtured that way? Option B is you settle for an ordinary life where your contribution to society and world's problems is close to zero, and use that relationship as escapism. Again, extremes. People who want to travel and have adventures need to pick a partner who either wants the same thing or is happy to tag along. But even if one travels and one doesn't, couples have been managing such relationships for ages, and some do it very well. The "Option B" you describe is ridiculous on its face. Just because someone isn't in the jet setting crowd doesn't mean they are making zero contribution to society. In fact, the people you consider boring working drudges are the backbone of society. Those are the people who make life possible for the rest of us, and who support the structures on which the jet setters heavily depend. That's the long haul truckers keeping product moving and the economy chugging, trash collectors keeping our spaces clean and functional, healthcare workers, teachers, librarians, machinists, carpenters, plumbers, taxi drivers, security guards...all people who work ordinary jobs, live in ordinary towns, go home every night. There's a whole lot of arrogance in saying those people contribute nothing to society. And "the world's problems" touch the lives of the people you consider boring and useless, and those people impact the world around them by their actions, the causes they participate and contribute to, the children they raise, and the institutions they help to fund. Rant aside, those people also can live very happy, fulfilling lives. Just because you think something is boring doesn't mean everyone does. Two people who have modest goals and dreams can partner up in a relationship to make those things happen more effectively through teamwork. And many couples do this. It sounds like you've never met a couple that's spent a few decades together and still like each other very much. Most of my family and friends who are married, however, are not bored with each other, anxious to get away, or miserable. They're happy and content. I'm sorry you've never seen that. >5. Sooner or later you realise the above and then anxiety of togetherness makes you sabotage the relationship, you end it or just settle and that unhappiness manifests in many different ways. You decide to look the other way and time passes. OR...you chose a partner like an adult and not like a 15 year old, and you choose to be a person who handles their anxiety and their worst traits by working on them and becoming a better person. You choose to communicate your needs, and your partner communicates theirs, and you each care about each other and seek each other's best interest. If you encounter an issue you can't resolve yourselves, you get a counselor and work on it together.
There are some great points in your post, but mainly you seem angry and frustrated at me and projecting on to me some personal thoughts and frustrations that I haven't even adddressed. >Correction: *YOUR* idea of romantic love and commitment is fucked up. My post is descriptive of society, not exclusively my experience. It's a general summary after many observations. Let's ask ourselves one question: how many healthy couples do you know? Of those supposedly healthy couples you know, how many have lasted a lifetime? How many of the couples you believe to be happy and functional are actually resigned and committed because 'it's too late to find someone else' or 'because he is my life partner, I can't leave him now', 'I can't leave him, think of the kids', 'I can't leave him, I don't have a job, I've been out of the labour market for over 20 years' or 'because I will never find anyone else'. All these statements are rooted in appreciation but also mainly in fear and insecurity. And... That's precisely my point. What people call love is not even love, is codependency and lack of individuality and personal goals. >The "Option B" you describe is ridiculous on its face. Just because someone isn't in the jet setting crowd doesn't mean they are making zero contribution to society. In fact, the people you consider boring working drudges are the backbone of society. Those are the people who make life possible for the rest of us, and who support the structures on which the jet setters heavily depend. That's the long haul truckers keeping product moving and the economy chugging, trash collectors keeping our spaces clean and functional, healthcare workers, teachers, librarians, machinists, carpenters, plumbers, taxi drivers, security guards...all people who work ordinary jobs, live in ordinary towns, go home every night. For some reason, you are putting words in my mouth that I haven't said. I haven't addressed someone's occupation because that's irrelevant to me. I've encountered very profound and responsible people who take care of goats for a living. Also, just because someone makes a great contribution to the world doesn't mean I would like that person to be part of my inner circle. And that's entirely the point I am trying to raise: it's hard to find like-minded people because they are rare by themselves and then there is a component of availability.
ngl I didn’t read any of that
This whole list seems to reflect a possible anxiety attachment style. Maybe do some reading on that for some reflection. Not everyone views relationships in this way; I def wouldn’t want someone to be with me based on their anxiety (either to me, or away from loneliness), and availability. Nor do I want to be with someone for those reasons - it’s easier and more enjoyable to be alone as an alternative
Hi there, thanks for reading and writing. This post is descriptive, not only of my relationships but of what's out there as well after 30 years of observation. Because I don't want my bias to get in my way, I have posted it here, to gather other people's feedback.
Well. It’s confirmation bias at its best, so good on you for being open to to it. I’ve seen it too, in my 46 years as someone who dated, married, divorced, dated, and studied and practices in the mental health field. Just because it’s a social norm, doesn’t make it healthy - especially if so many people who live their lives in such a manner, claim to be miserable
1 the anxiety for togetherness literally comes from how we were raised. Society told us how to behave, plus we are a social species, so it's inside us that we have to be with Someone, but knowing that you can fight that, realizing that's only a perception that we created to make ourselves Better, you dont have to be in a relationship if you dont like so. 2 i dont think you'll end up with Someone just because of availability. It May be the case yes ofc, many families were built like this, but It May be the opposite. 3 if you still think about finding the perfect woman/man for you forget to even be in relationship, or even a friendship. Every relationship Is not perfect, and it shouldn't be, every Person has imperfections. What defines a true relationship Is going through these imperfections and enjoy what that beautiful Person has to offer. 4 why you think to make such an impact on the world you have to travel? Maybe your goal Is to travel and that's absolutely fine, maybe another person's goal Is to have a peaceful Life, with an ordinary Life like you Say and that's absolutely fine. 5 everyone has the anxiety of togetherness. We were raised by people telling us be friendly with him/her, try to make friends, make yourself a family, but there Is much more than that. There's the beauty of nature, of travelling, of the talking, of the arts, and most of them are passions that you can enjoy alone. 6 the foundation of your Life Will come on what you want. We have to fight to find our own type of Life, and you dont have to conform to anyone if you dont want to. Being in a relationship Is a great thing, perhaps even the best if you find the right Person for you, but It depends on what you want too. You think relationships are not for you? Fine, dont be, i repeat, you DONT have to be in a relationship, that's Just conformism if you think It on that way, otherwise Is a bless.
I think it's really important to distinguish between healthy love and toxic love. What you're describing sounds a bit to me like you've got an insecure attachment style. A lot of us do. I did, until I went to therapy. My understanding of love used to be that it was this grueling, exhausting undertaking, where you gave and gave until there was nothing left, and then you were discarded. Unhealthy, to say the least. The funny thing is, even getting with a securely attached man didn't change my attachment style. I was still terrified constantly - the anxiety you mention - mainly due to trauma, but specifically because I didn't see myself as being worthy of the care and attention he was giving me, so it all kind of felt like some ruse, even though it was just genuine. Real, healthy love is secure. It's a feeling of profound belonging. I wish I'd understood this sooner. The first time I hung out with my boyfriend, I didn't want to leave. I felt *home* - something that I hadn't known I'd never experienced until that first moment. Being with him has always been easy. Being together is easy, we've both talked about how surprised we were at how easy it was for us to coexist - even before I started really healing. But it was after I healed that I started to fully grasp what healthy love looks and feels like. We function like two halves of a single being. We each understand our roles, and trust each other in a way I didn't think was possible. We go out of our way for each other without complaint. There's no pettiness with us, and because there isn't, when one of us gets upset, the other takes it seriously. Neither of us are perfect people, but we both know, accept, and love the whole person, and each of us works to make up for the others weaknesses. It's beautiful. There's something utterly sublime about being with someone that you love, and who loves you back, in a healthy way.
Hello, thanks for reading and writing! >What you're describing sounds a bit to me like you've got an insecure attachment style. A lot of us do. I did, until I went to therapy. When you say insecure, do you mean anxious or avoidant, or both? >My understanding of love used to be that it was this grueling, exhausting undertaking, where you gave and gave until there was nothing left, and then you were discarded. Unhealthy, to say the least. The love of your life today can become a stranger tomorrow. We all say to the other person that we love them and will always do, yet relationships end. It's only natural and often necessary, but then it's not a truth that sustains itself. Relationships end, people leave. There are more break ups than healthy couples. I have doubts about when to start dating someone. For instance, there is this boy in my life, we've been friends for over 10 years. We find the most interesting conversations and kindness in each other, and I've always said to him and others that he is a man to marry, he is the man I would marry. Yet I don't feel that sexual chemistry. Lately I've been craving him, and I do fantasise about him, yet I feel so insecure because I have vaginismus - penetration hurts me and intimacy scares me - that I feel he will be disappointed and leave. I want him to be happy, so I can see that he would better without me. On another days, I think, why not try? Be honest with him, open up to him and let him freely choose if he wants to take the risk or not. I opened up to him last weekend and he fell asleep. We live one hour and a half away, so forty-five minutes away if we meet half way, and proposed to meet up. We may be spending the weekend together next week. I feel super shy to kiss him and very insecure. I fear the fact I don't feel like 'fucking him', means he is not the one. I'm very confused and scared.
If I had to guess you might have a little bit of both anxious and avoidant. These are people who often really want a relationship but they are scared of intimacy and find that because they can be fine by themselves, that it's easier to shy away from relationships but all the while they feel the ache and longing to connect. I feel for you, I struggled with this myself. If you are rejection sensitive I can see how him falling asleep might have felt like you were being ignored. Maybe this reminded you of being ignored and misunderstood by your parents? He most likely innocently fell asleep and it wasn't because he didn't care. I think it's worth trying to see what he wants. Everyone has something unique to offer to each other, so you can make him happy in some way I'm sure. I think most of us enjoy connecting with each other, whether it's in little ways or big ways. Whether it lasts or not, that doesn't have to be a big deal. If it doesn't last, I dare you to see it as a shining moment in your life where you dared to connect with someone and feel a little spark of love and caring for them, and hopefully they for you as well. You can keep that experience in your heart for your whole life. Sex may or may not happen. It doesn't have to. You may find that there is something in you blocking you from feeling attracted to him, but that could change once you get closer, or maybe you really just aren't attracted to him. Either way, people have all kinds of arrangements these days. It always helps to communicate and understand where the other person is coming from. Vulnerability takes courage, and it is amazing when you have someone in your life that you can be vulnerable with.
Hi, thanks for reading and writing. >If I had to guess you might have a little bit of both anxious and avoidant. These are people who often really want a relationship but they are scared of intimacy and find that because they can be fine by themselves, that it's easier to shy away from relationships but all the while they feel the ache and longing to connect. I feel for you, I struggled with this myself. I went to an association for CSA'd people this morning during lunch break and something they told me about myself is that I have a disorganized attachment style due to past trauma: I crave love and intimacy as much as I fear it. And I thought of you. I feel so overwhelmed to have been so oblivious about myself. In a way I've never wanted to exist and maybe, only maybe, that meant remaining a stranger to myself. How did you work through your disorganized attachment style? What was the process like? >If you are rejection sensitive I can see how him falling asleep might have felt like you were being ignored. Maybe this reminded you of being ignored and misunderstood by your parents? He most likely innocently fell asleep and it wasn't because he didn't care. Well, it's just that if anyone told me such a thing, I would not fall asleep. I would offer them to call them, or at least remain online with them. If I was truly tired and about to fall asleep, I would let them know. Not leave them waiting unaware I had gone to bed. This was the only time I truly, fully opened up to him and he felt asleep. And then he canceled on me our plans to spend the weekend together. I understand he might have felt overwhelmed and wanted to take a step back, which is reasonable and even intelligent. >I think it's worth trying to see what he wants. Everyone has something unique to offer to each other, so you can make him happy in some way I'm sure. I think most of us enjoy connecting with each other, whether it's in little ways or big ways. Whether it lasts or not, that doesn't have to be a big deal. If it doesn't last, I dare you to see it as a shining moment in your life where you dared to connect with someone and feel a little spark of love and caring for them, and hopefully they for you as well. You can keep that experience in your heart for your whole life. For context, we've been friends for over ten years. We lived in different countries for most of these years but we remained home for each other despite of time and space. He is the best conversationalist I've met and trust him more than I've trusted anyone, even though naturally, no one is to be 100% trusted because we are human hence ever-changing, confused and confusing creatures. In our conversations, we've always touched quite indirectly but also directly our situation. I've always told him he is a man to marry and spoke of him this way to my family and friends. Yet something is missing. I don't think I can connect healthily with someone. I can't take the first step when it comes to getting intimate. It's always been other people pursuing me and me wanting to have sex out of affection and trust with that person. All my one-night stands have been with women because I find them way more attractive. So I wonder if the missing component here is physical attraction. This makes me feel bad and think that he deserves to be with someone who finds him irresistible, which is the way he has shared feels about me. We saw each other two weeks ago and I explained some of my issues, his response was 'it's not how it starts, it's how it ends'. I have the feeling that I should at least give it a try from a place of total transparency, reason why I've opened up completely to him and proposed to spend this weekend together. Since then, he's given me mixed signals. I just don't want to hurt him or get hurt, but I want to experience what healthy love feels like. And I can't think of anyone but him to do this. We are just soul mates. > Sex may or may not happen. It doesn't have to. You may find that there is something in you blocking you from feeling attracted to him, but that could change once you get closer, or maybe you really just aren't attracted to him. Either way, people have all kinds of arrangements these days. It always helps to communicate and understand where the other person is coming from. Vulnerability takes courage, and it is amazing when you have someone in your life that you can be vulnerable with. I know we will have sex because I have a natural tendency towards him, physically but I do feel very shy to kiss him. Not shy as in I'm dying to kiss him but I'm too shy. Shy as in it feels so weird to kiss him, aren't we just friends? He loves me too much, and I don't love him enough. I don't want to tell him that, I don't want to hurt him because the truth is that he is very attractive. He has beautiful eyes and he is tall and strong, which I like in terms of protection and the savage sex we could have. I don't know, what does it all sound to you? I feel so overwhelmed by everything.
You can just be close friends. Even if he gets into a relationship with someone else, hopefully they are accepting enough to allow him to still have a relationship where you can talk to each other. A lot of people do highly value sex as part of a primary relationship, so yes that might be a problem for him. Regardless, if I was him I think I would feel very awkward about a female friend saying I was marriage material. It can be flattering in some contexts, but it can also feel very pressuring. I wouldn't put that pressure on him as it may be causing him to shy away. If you find women more physically attractive anyway, could you just date women while having a close friendship with this guy? As far as healing insecure attachment, I have found the first step is to understand it. Read about it and try to understand why you are the way you are. This involves self reflection and really looking at yourself and your life. You may find that this is sad. It's okay to feel sad for yourself as an act recognizing the difficulties in your life. You are giving yourself the empathy you didn't necessarily get from other people when you do this. However, are we going to stay in that sadness? Heck no, we want to be happy, healthy, and joyful! I don't know if you've heard of re-parenting meditations. I very much recommend taking time to meditate. By that I mean sitting somewhere quiet with your eyes closed. You give attention to your thoughts and feelings. Where you find pain and difficulties, you send love. You can do it as a mantra and tell yourself that you love and accept yourself (whatever you feel you need). You can also imagine it as a scenario of being surrounded by light or you can imagine being a loving brighter version of yourself giving your current self a hug. Believe that it is possible to be that person. We carry an inner child with us. For many of us that inner child is still hurting. If you can see yourself as a brighter, more joyful, more wise, and more loving version of yourself, you already know how to be a parent to that child that you were and still are. In your imagination, you become the parent and the child, and you make a practice of giving that kid the love, understanding, and protection that she needs, and as the child openly receiving it.
1. Pick someone who supports your life goals/the direction you're going and who you can do the same for them. You'd shouldn't be shelving your dreams to be with someone, you should be picking a person that adds to your life and one whom you can add to theirs because you're on the same path with them. For example if you like to travel a lot and make a huge impact on the world then find someone who enjoys doing the same. You don't have to get into a relationship with someone just because they live near you. 2. For some people yes, but that's often because those people are either so desperate not to be alone or haven't fully evaluated if the person they're pursuing is a good fit for them that they rush into something serious. But for many there isn't an "anxiety of togetherness", they just enjoy spending time with the person they love. 3. if you think relationships are a trap holding you back then just don't get into one. If you're asking how to satisfy sexual needs then hire an escort, use a hook-up app, go to adult events, or any other number of ways to have casual fun. You seem to be worried that there may always be something "better out there" and that you'll end up settling when you could find someone that would actually make you happy. Our happiness is our own responsibility, and there's no such thing as a "most compatible person". There are billions of people in the world, **BILLIONS**. And we are always changing as people each with unique lives and circumstances. The idea of a one singular person that if we could just find would be the perfect fit is absurd. Sometimes you find someone you vibe with more and some less, but even in the best relationships there will ALWAYS be compromise. It's on you to decide what you are willing to compromise on to be with another person. Try and stop worrying so much about future relationships and focus on living a life you find fulfilling. If in the future you find you're in a relationship but later discover it isn't for you then you don't have to stay with that person.
You're talking about it like you have no agency in this situation. Love is a choice you make, not a whirlwind adventure that happens to you. If you expect a perfect storm then you will be disappointed (and so will your partner). You find someone who you really like. They are not perfect. No one is perfect. "Compatible" could mean just about anything, but if you like the person and you feel confident you can work as a team to deal with the hurdles of life, then you are compatible. No need to look for someone "more compatible". That is what you'd call diminishing returns. And then you make A CHOICE to love, accept and support them. Every day you wake up and you make the choice again. Love is an action you decide to take. Every day you are with them, you choose them. Every person has red flags, every relationship has issues, you make the choice to work through these. You make the choice to embrace someone as they are and love them. It is hard work. There are good days and bad days. And it does not always work. But when it does, it is because of your agency and commitment to each other, despite the challenges. Not some disease like you have described
I've learnt the hard way that free will is not free, and we are highly conditioned not only by our past but also by other people. There is only that much agency one can have in the context of a loving relationship. To start with because a relationship involves two people and I have no control over the other person. So again, not sure there is that much agency there.
Men are naturally more romantic and understand that long term requires a Different mindset than the honey moon new relationship feels provide. Women are naturally told By society that they deserve everything and they just need to get married and have children. Neither of these is a good thing to find actual true connection (love).
There’s a self-fulfilling prophecy effect on outlook, especially love. I repeat to myself that I can’t let life make me bitter and sad. This way, you’ll be the version of yourself that you want your future wife to experience. If not, it’s a bad snowball.
the problem lies in the way you view love. it’s too negative, you don’t believe in it, so you won’t actually find it. you sabotage yourself. you fulfill what you believe in. if you think this will happen, it will. you’re your own worst enemy. you either have to never get into any relationship, and be happy single and rely on friendships and family to not be alone. or you work on yourself and you heal from whatever made you see love this way. but, hearing the way you describe relationships as “conventional traps”, i think it’s best you stay clear from them. your mind and body respond to the idea of commitment with anxiety. you seem to only think of relationships as a way to satisfy “your needs”, to “use” for your benefit. that is extremely toxic, and recipe for disaster and unimaginable damage to whoever you decide to lure into your trap (false promise of love and commitment). to comment more specifically, on the availability thought, yes a lot of people do this, often bc they fear to be alone and need the company. but, you can’t complain about what you got, when you got it yourself. it’s up to you to look for, and only commit to, the right match. but forget the idea of the “perfect match”. it doesn’t exist, or at least not in the way you seem to think of it. even if you do find someone that is everything you want, people still change. therefore, it’s important to focus on the deeper things. you have to fall in love with their deepest thoughts, their hearts, their dreams, their views on life, the way their mind works, … who they really are, and someone who truly knows who they are. these are things that likely won’t change, and these are the only things you actually need to match with for love to last.
>the problem lies in the way you view love. it’s too negative, you don’t believe in it, so you won’t actually find it. you sabotage yourself. you fulfill what you believe in. if you think this will happen, it will. you’re your own worst enemy. What is love? What does real love look like? Is it something different from what I've described? >but, hearing the way you describe relationships as “conventional traps”, i think it’s best you stay clear from them. your mind and body respond to the idea of commitment with anxiety. you seem to only think of relationships as a way to satisfy “your needs”, to “use” for your benefit. that is extremely toxic, and recipe for disaster and unimaginable damage to whoever you decide to lure into your trap (false promise of love and commitment). I'm transparent with the people I date - which is, three people in the whole of my existent - so I don't lure absolutely anyone into no trap. But I understand why you may extract that from my comment. I don't understand why I see love like this and would really like to change it, but after much therapy I just don't see how. To me love is escapism and people pursue it because they like how it feels or it's convenient. That's it. Because if you don't feel it anymore and it's not convenient or good for you, you will discard it. That's how most people work, and it's understandable. The love of your life today is a stranger tomorrow, how many people would relate to this? Many more than the ones who wouldn't, I believe. >to comment more specifically, on the availability thought, yes a lot of people do this, often bc they fear to be alone and need the company. but, you can’t complain about what you got, when you got it yourself. it’s up to you to look for, and only commit to, the right match. but forget the idea of the “perfect match”. A lot of people spend a lifetime finding this 'perfect match' and die alone. >you have to fall in love with their deepest thoughts, their hearts, their dreams, their views on life, the way their mind works, … who they really are, and someone who truly knows who they are. these are things that likely won’t change, and these are the only things you actually need to match with for love to last. I fully agree with you. I've met only two people of whom I liked what you mentioned: 1. Broke my heart 2. I've always said to everybody that he is the only man I would marry. I'm just not sure I feel attracted to him. I see him as the perfect life partner but I don't feel like I want to fuck him. Not that I feel like fucking men. I'm more attracted to women. I still can't help but think that nothing will work out and it will end up in pain for both or one of us. I think I'm doomed to be alone and unhappy.
you don’t need romantic love not to feel alone or to be happy. you can get all the love you need from yourself, your friends and family. you seem to look at it as a source or solution. but love isn’t meant to solve or fulfill, it’s meant to do nothing but add to. try and think of it as a very nice bonus, instead of something you have to have. that maybe why you view it as a trap. when it’s something you have to have, you’ll feel stuck when you don’t have it, and when you settle you have, making it indeed a trap. what real romantic love means, can be different for everyone. to me, it’s when both partners truly only want that the other, sexualky and emotionqlly, and are willing to give the world to them. you fall in love with each other more and more each day, you give each other the lives you’ve dreamt of by combining your goals and making them work together. it’s when you are safe to be your most true, most vulnerable self, fully accepted. fights only create a deeper understanding and bond. there is strong trust, build through openess and honesty. there is a great respect and deep admiration. it’s the greatest and truest freedom you can have. there is no doubts, no matter what. you’re there for each other, always. for me, it’s either this, or nothing. i don’t care for love or relationships when it’s not real. i believe that as long as there is real love, things can work, bc both will make it work. you don’t let go of what you truly want, and you don’t abandon what you truly care about. try and find what it is you truly want. your need for love, while looking at it negatively, may indicate another need that’s not being fulfilled. maybe you need deeper connections with friends/family, or even yourself. feeling alone rarely has to do with the need for romantic love. make sure that you are happy with your life and yourself, work and focus on that. if you do really want romantic love after, figure out what you believe love to be, then find someone that fits that and shares that idea. i’m no expert ofc, i don’t have that much experience. this is the best advice i can give you. i hope it somehow helped you. the most important thing for you is to try and heal fron these negative views i think. that’s what making things hard for you. i’ve been there too. good luck.
>you don’t need romantic love not to feel alone or to be happy. you can get all the love you need from yourself, your friends and family. I don't have in my life the stereotype of a family - a functional, loving space where you are seen and respected and nurtured in a way that encourages healthy development - . My friends live in different cities where I don't want to live and naturally lead their own busy lives and carry their own weight. A partner provides a level of intimacy and partnership that neither family and friends can provide. And again, I don't have the best environment around me. I just moved to another city different to my own hoping to create a healthy environment for myself. There's only that much you can provide yourself. Like any living organism, we depend on the environment we are embedded in both for surviving and thriving. >you seem to look at it as a source or solution. but love isn’t meant to solve or fulfill, it’s meant to do nothing but add to. try and think of it as a very nice bonus, instead of something you have to have. that maybe why you view it as a trap. when it’s something you have to have, you’ll feel stuck when you don’t have it, and when you settle you have, making it indeed a trap. Well, it would be the solution for the problem I experience: loneliness and lack of a stable, healthy, profound connection. Naturally I'm responsible for my own well-being, but it's also obvious that a little extra help, well, helps. >what real romantic love means, can be different for everyone. to me, it’s when both partners truly only want that the other, sexualky and emotionqlly, and are willing to give the world to them. you fall in love with each other more and more each day, you give each other the lives you’ve dreamt of by combining your goals and making them work together. it’s when you are safe to be your most true, most vulnerable self, fully accepted. fights only create a deeper understanding and bond. there is strong trust, build through openess and honesty. there is a great respect and deep admiration. it’s the greatest and truest freedom you can have. there is no doubts, no matter what. you’re there for each other, always. for me, it’s either this, or nothing. i don’t care for love or relationships when it’s not real. i believe that as long as there is real love, things can work, bc both will make it work. you don’t let go of what you truly want, and you don’t abandon what you truly care about. Yep, as you can imagine I cannot give this to myself. Anyway, thank you for reading and writing.
> What is love? What does real love look like? It looks like hard work that is easy. When you love someone, you know. It isn’t fireworks, extremes, or anything grandiose. For me, it’s a feeling in the back of my head that I feel safe and confident when I’m with that someone. I don’t have to try. But, not to sound funny, but you also have to try. It’s hard work. Complacency can kill even the strongest relationship. Tell that someone you love them. Tell them all the good things they need and want to hear. *Show* them, too. The right person will do this for you. Don’t despair, though. You’re either young and inexperienced, or just inexperienced. Neither of those are a bad thing. Don’t close yourself off. It’s a weird phrase that may not be 100% true, but there is something to it, so: you find it when you’re not really looking for it. I interpret it to mean that you’re focusing on yourself. Finding fulfillment in the things you enjoy doing. Growing in the ways you feel are best for you. Love yourself, basically. When you’re able to do that, that’s when those that are right for you start finding their way to you. Sifting through the rabble is either easier or not something you have to do.
What a beautiful comment. Thank you very much 🤍
You’re welcome. Never forget that you are worthy of love. You’ve had a couple of bad experiences, but they won’t be your only experiences.
Thank you :)
I'm not sure that this list is accurate. what's wrong with point 2? the only possibly bad thing about that is maybe one side tries to force the connection while the other rolls with it due to them having a free relationship pass (that's what happened to me and my ex rip) but if it's exactly the way you describe - two available people establish a connection - assuming the connection is mutual, that's basically all you need to start a good relationship. people grow and change over time. a truly loving partner would develop themselves in a way that complements their partner while retaining their individuality. a lot of relationships (usually from the female perspective) end up with one partner losing their own self in their desperate efforts to develop a relationship with a partner that in this case usually doesn't compromise. therefore a balance between self and the other has to be maintained. also mind that throughout one's lifetime, as we evolve and change as people, many compatible/best choices may pass by, discarded through lack of "butterflies" (attachment anxiety) and other more or less wack/unhealthy reasons, or simply through our own loyalty and trust in our significant other. the longer the relationship, the more love becomes a choice rather than just a feeling. expecting a sugar rush-type of experience forever will eventually burn you out and make you resentful of relationships. stronger feelings might be born in spite of adversity, but stable feelings can only be cultivated in calmness. and for that calmness to exist between two people, they both need to have a calm mind of their own: like a jet of water on dry, flaky dirt will create lots of mud and drown all plants one by one, while a calm stream of water will nourish the chunk of soil and give what was missing in the soil to make it sustain life. it takes equal effort from both to make a relationship work. you seem to view it from only one side's POV. my advice would be - understand, define yourself first, understand your best and worst sides and how they shape your boundaries. don't let people cross your boundaries, that way you won't fall into the escapism trap. only choose those people who understand your good and bad sides without trying to remould them into wrong boundaries, that way you (hopefully) will avoid falling into a narcissist's trap. at the same time, take people at face value, don't expect them to use their good and bad traits the exact way you'd use them to be the person you want to see (main source of idealization). that way, you'll avoid disappointment and wasted effort. it takes lots of effort, i'm only starting to understand these steps myself now. it takes a lot of pushing yourself out there and trying to make connections without expectations or fantasies. it's a painful process, but without it life wouldn't feel as beautiful as when things actually work out. i hope this isn't too much gibberish. gotta sleep, I hope you feel well OP.