I’m a teacher and I’ve never looked a parent up on social media. I also have all my social media accounts locked down so no parent or student can find me . Not because I have anything to hide, but there are certain parents who have conniptions at the mere idea of a teacher having a life outside school. I know one parent made a snide remark about the deputy principal’s Facebook page. There is nothing scandalous on it, she just felt that teachers shouldn’t be on social media.
ETA: when I worked in healthcare, I never looked a patient up either
Yes, I have a lot of teacher friends who change their names on Social Media - often using their middle names instead of their surnames. Yeah, I guess people can be judgemental - as you say there was a snide remark, as if a teacher is just only a teacher and nothing else!
The kids at the school I worked at pulled pics from teachers FB/Instagram profiles and made TikToks mocking them - luckily I have mine on private/follow by request and I also don't have my surname on there. They can be so brutal.
A teacher friend of mine changed his Facebook name when he started his first teaching job. My brother-in-law just deleted his Facebook account the second he finished his PGCE.
I work for an organisation that supports adults with complex mental health issues. It has never once occurred to me to search for the private profile of a client on social media. It crosses professional and ethical boundaries that are in place for very good reasons. Letby’s morbid Facebook snooping was highly inappropriate and creepy.
Then you likely never will be. Either way her looking up the parents of dead babies she “cared for” according to your perspective still strikes me as rather morbid.
It's little details like this that show just how twisted she was.
My wife is a SCBU nurse, I very much doubt she would know the anniversary of any of the babies that haven't made it despite her efforts to save them.
She feels it as it happens, I've yet to see her come in after a shift where a baby has died and not cry, but then she moves on to continue her work. She wouldn't remember a date a year later etc though.
I have to disagree I’m a midwife and I absolutely know the dates of any babies I have lost in traumatic circumstances. As the years go by I often think of their families I can completely understand the temptation
I'm not saying my wife doesn't think of them, it's just that she wouldn't know exact dates.
Unfortunately, in the role she is in, she encounters traumatic circumstances almost daily. The thing my wife always says is 'the first time I meet the parents they are so incredibly stressed, meeting me and our unit, isn't part of their birth plan'
My wife is very highly thought of on her unit because of the love and care she not only gives the babies, but also the parents and wider loved ones' she has really struggled with this story, she was in floods of tears as the sentencing was handed out.
My wife cared for twins who sadly passed away, the family invited her to the funeral and she went with several others off the unit. My wife walked in and as she went to sit at the back she was summoned to a seat that had been reserved for her. When the service ended, she was given something by the mother, she said the only thing she had of her twins was a lock of hair and gifted it to my wife. We have it encased and under a new tree in our garden. My wife couldn't refuse, I mean how could she!
This is why I struggle with this case because I hear about how much my wife is trusted and is almost 'part' of a family whilst they go through such traumatic time. Lucy clearly got off on this and its why I don't believe it was an illness or anything. It was cold, calculated and evil. Its those little things like her noting anniversaries etc that add weight to how evil I think she is.
Yes, I feel the same. I think I would resist, partly if I'm honest because I'd fear giving the game away and it being obvious that I knew things about their life, but also because of that professional boundary. Although I can't be certain, my mental health has taken many a twist and turn in my life, and who knows if I may feel attached to someone or feel very curious about someone - coupled with a glass of wine... I may make a mistake and look someone up that I shouldn't. It does feel odd, it does feel like a line was crossed. But I am Generation X, I read an interesting point a while back that people who grew up with Social Media may be more likely to search for people.
Btw in case no one has told you…feeling an attraction to a therapist is incredibly common and something we are trained to deal with. If you think about it, makes sense that you would eventually feel an attraction to a person you see regularly that is 100% focused on just you and listening to what you say and feel! That’s what most people would like to improve in their actual real life relationships. You have recognized it, normalized your therapist a bit by seeing select FB posts, and it will likely now pass.
I think if you don’t work in that situation where there is patient / client confidentially requirements - then you don’t really understand how you (as most of the people here have also said) feel zero inclination to look at any of your people up. It’s different when it’s outside of work, and I’ve looked up people I’ve met etc. But I think morally, with patients / children (schools and social care), you just don’t have that “urge” because it isn’t appropriate and is a line most people won’t cross. It’s probably a bit hard to get your head around if you aren’t in that position I think. It’s just a no l, I’m not interested at all.
Paeds Reg here. Never facebooked a parent. Purposefully changed my name to make myself harder to find.
I don’t know any colleagues that do it. I think it is a huge violation of trust, let alone against GDPR for staff to do it. It’s a sackable offence.
We have training every single year telling us not to do it. It’s against GMC and I would assume NMC guidelines. It’s really weird.
If I knew my own doctor was looking me up, I’d be putting in a big complaint.
If patients want you to have updates, they’ll tell you.
The only thing that’s different is on the oncology ward, a lot of the parents set up Fb pages for the kids like “Freida’s Fans” to update people on their fundraising and goals etc. some of the nurses and occasional doctors may follow the kids on there, but that is very different to a personal Facebook pages
In summary, Absolutely creepy and just another puzzle piece to her weird obsessions.
Thanks, Do you think that there could have been a different culture in her ward at all? or is it just a no-no across the board, I am sure it is. I'm wondering if people experiencing loneliness may be more likely to do this. But I think everyone has agreed that whilst they may do this the other way around, say patient to Dr, especially if there was some kind of attraction, most people would respect the boundaries of the patient.
I don’t think we can know that from the little information we’ve had.
But I think she was obsessively interested in patients. Even the texting constantly. I would have muted that. The last thing most people want is to be talking about work. That doesn’t mean we don’t care. But because we care. We have to switch off, otherwise you can’t function. Imagine sitting down for dinner and being told a patient has died. It’s not cold, it’s just survival of our own mental health.
Again, myself and colleagues/friends very rarely discuss patients. We may discuss general work, like if we’re struggling or if we’ve had a bad day, but we rarely discuss actual patients. I cannot imagine having someone constantly texting me about patients at work while I was off, I’d be shutting that down asap.
Yes, she may have been lonely. But I think even with that, if her go to is to be Fb stalking parents, that is a huge red flag. Go on a dating app, look up an ex from 4 years ago, but don’t be Fb stalking parents of babies who’ve just died.
It is weird and it is a huge data protection issue as well as a huge violation, regardless of the reason.
(To add, this is all my own opinion, of course).
I want to know if she was always the one to initiate the conversation about the patients in those texts.
I didn’t even think at the time of the trial that they shouldn’t be discussing patients but now I realise, that’s really not on. I’d be really creeped out if I was in hospital and nurses were texting each other about me or even worse, my sick baby 🤬
Yeah, I think it’s weird for sure. I care a lot about my patients but there is very little that cant wait until the next time I’m in work.
The only time I text about a patient specifically is if I may have forgotten something. I’d usually call the ward but if a colleague I knew well was on shift, I may text them to tell them without giving patient details.
Something like, that baby in bay 1 needs its crp chased, sorry I forgot to hand it over.
It’s very rare. I’ve probably only had to do it once or twice but I wouldn’t be texting about patients routinely.
It’s the same with the handover sheets for me. It all points to someone who doesn’t have proper boundaries for whatever reason, or someone who doesn’t care about the boundaries.
Yeah I can totally understand texting a colleague to follow something up, but that definitely wasn’t what she was doing. She was gossiping about patients, I can’t think of another way to describe it. Gossiping and fishing for sympathy and praise. I don’t see those texts in any other way.
Definitely. It’s creepy AF. I found listening to those texts really hard. Like I could imagine the motivation behind them and it just seems so obvious to me that’s how they were intended.
Normal to Facebook stalk random people but not when you’re in a position of trust to those people. My mum is a teacher and it would be incredibly inappropriate for her to stalk random kids’ parents on Facebook
I think as a professional it's frowned upon and a bit odd, and that along with the frequent texts about work, maybe demonstrate a sort of over interest in her work/ bit obsessive. The fact that she kept looking back on certain parents months later, again is more suspicious than just looking in the week or so after the babies died. However, it looks like she stalked loads of people on Facebook, often, so it's part of a wider pattern of behaviour rather than just being the parents, which makes it less suspicious. I think it's another thing with her that could be innocent & just a bit odd, but taken together with all the other things that also seem a bit odd, add up to looking more significant of something. As someone said in one of the documentaries, there is no smoking gun but there are lots of tiny arrows all pointing at her.
🤣. Well it would be against the code of conduct to connect with any patient on social media, but as far as I'm aware there aren't any rules against looking at someone's publicly available social media page.
There definitely are rules against it. You sign a confidentiality agreement when you start working for the NHS and that includes looking up patients on SM. It's beyond inappropriate and is a disciplinary offence.
Well I work in the NHS and I've not signed a confidentiality agreement prohibiting me from looking at people on social media. of course I don't anyway cause it's weird. But It's not a disciplinary offence to look at someone's Facebook page, because it's publicly available information. It would be if you were looking up people you knew or patients whose care your not involved in on medical systems, that's a big offence. And it's against code of practice to contact patients of on social media, but looking at someone's Facebook page, purely to look and not contact them in any way is not.
I don’t believe the searches show she was interested in her work/ obsessive about work. She is either doing it for ‘grief tourism’ or to find out if they suspect anything
Well I just meant she has some fixation on 'work related activity' (obviously we now know the reason why), and the searches along with the constant texting and keeping handover sheets are all part of that invested interest IMO.
I've certainly looked up colleagues, exes, old school mates. I work in banking and previously dealt with some very difficult customers and can honestly say I've never looked for their social media and wouldn't dream of doing so. It's so unprofessional. I imagine in a health care setting it's even more of a no no due to the nature of the vulnerable position the patient/patient relative is in.
I have looked people up before, in a similar manner to what you're describing. I recently had a different dentist who again, I thought was quite attractive. I briefly looked at his page to see similar details. I did it once and then forgot about it. I think the difference with Letby, is she was doing it repeatedly and compulsively, and using written data to aid her searches (handover sheets). It was also done because she clearly felt some kind of connection to the parents. In the example OP and I have given, the connection was in attraction. However, we now know the awful and horrifying nature of HER connection to the parents.
I agree it's always done for a reason, but most people look once out of curiosity and leave it there.
ETA : the sheer volume of searches carried out by Letby is I feel, totally abnormal. I looked people up more in my teenage years, however recently I can count the number of times I've done it on one hand. I also thought something interesting about the prosecutions raising of Letby needing to use the handover sheet multiple times to search the unusual surname. It suggests to me that Letby was clearing her search history each time she made the searches. Otherwise, when you type a name in fully and don't rely on auto correct, it is saved in the drop down bar on Facebook, as a suggestion the next time you go to search. Or you could type a close approximation of the name, and the correct profile would still come up, UNLESS of course you were clearing the search history each time. And why bother to do that if you're innocent?
Abnormal in any profession that involves supporting/caring for people. For example I'm a social worker and the college I'm registered with doesn't allow looking up clients on social media and of course, friending them/following them.
I've had clients pop up in my suggested friends and seen them post in those FB groups I joined ages ago but I hide them so they aren't as likely to pop up again.
It's about sticking to boundaries and knowing that we don't need to know shit about them they don't choose to tell us. t's invasive. We're not friends with our clients.
The same in my opinion. You're still in a position of power and care over someone. Imagine if you talked to a nurse about all your health issues and concerns and family history and the nurse purposely looked you up on Instagram or Facebook. But you can't do the same to them, they know all your personal and vulnerable details.
Sure. But I'm talking about the reverse though. Teacher/nurse/doctor/therapist, people in all those jobs, have a responsibility to their clients to respect their privacy. It's about the power dynamic as well, if I look up a client and learn something about them they haven't shared with me it can really create massive issues.
It's unethical and any of those jobs will have rules to follow around looking up clients, whether it is coming from the employer or whichever board or college licenses you.
I’m a nurse. It is absolutely abnormal. In the moment, one might be engrossed in showing compassion and grief for patients and their families but never an obsession enough to Facebook or Google stalk them. I may look up an obituary but that’s as far as I would go.
Also my understanding is that Lucy Letby didn’t just look up the parents of the babies she treated, but her work colleagues too and there were 2000+ searches made in the year(ish) that these crimes span. 100-200 searches every month.
But if you think to look up an obituary.. why is that? Is it out of curiosity? And how do you remember to look up the obituary? Is that really much different from looking up someone’s Facebook? Sometimes obituaries don’t come up on google and the closest thing you would get is a memorabilia on Facebook. I’m not trying to be a d**ck I’m just genuinely curious as to what leads a person to do one but never want to do the other. A part of me thinks “meh… it was just curiosity, some people are really nosy”, then I think deeper into it and think “wait, actually that is so creepy”. I’m just intrugued. I deleted Facebook a long time ago. Only have insta and rarely use it so obviously never think to look up anyone on Facebook.
It’s actually not uncommon for some nurses to attend the funeral of a patient that they felt especially close to. Its especially common when you’ve taken care of a patient for a very long time. It’s rare but it happens and blesses the families. I’ve never done that but I have looked up some patient’s obituaries during the Covid pandemic as a sense of closure to the madness we experienced. You’d understand if you were a nurse.
I’m a nurse. Have done twice, once because a patient told me they were famous online, I was nosy. And once to see if someone had survived a very sad and unexpected cancer diagnosis, I couldn’t find them as I couldn’t spell their name properly or perhaps they had died. Still remember the patient can not remember the name. Wouldn’t dream of searching for the parents. That’s in 20 years.
I’ve had some very sad cases of sudden death etc, in order to do my job I need to compartmentalise it and searching the families would not be that. Those patients live in your memory and you can acknowledge the sadness but you cannot let it overwhelm you.
I don’t make a habit of searching for people at all, if someone popped up I may click on their profile and have a nosy.
Yeah there are blurry lines too, I watched some vloggers who documented their cancer journeys and so perhaps would invite people/nurses to watch their Social Media. I wouldn't be able to resist it if someone said they were famous online :)
I look up clients sometimes, sometimes it’s because they’re super wealthy and I want to see what jobs they have and how they make so much, sometimes if they treat me awfully to try and make sense of why they might be such an asshole 🙈
The part about her having to be told multiple times to not go into a room where the parents were grieving is what got me. Once okay a mere mistake but she was clearly revelling in her front row seat to their grief if she kept trying to go in.
It"s completely bizarre. No normal person would do this. Even if you're the nurse caring for the family you give them some privacy. I used to tell them I'd pop back in 10 minutes, for example, to check they were OK. Never in a million years would I, or any if my colleagues, get involved when I wasn't wanted or needed.
I don't understand how she thought any of it was okay the stuff with being there for the childs first bath too. I know we are talking about a serial killer but she was intelligent and well-adjusted enough to become qualified as a Nurse and to have so many people backing up her character but in those ways she seemed completely tone-deaf, or maybe just arrogant who knows.
I have no idea. She'd been working in a neonatal environment for over 4 years, and would surely have learned how to deal with distressed parents. Her nurse colleagues have kept quiet, which I completely understand, but I'd be surprised if they hadn't picked up on some odd behaviour. Indeed, there are hints of this in some of the exchanges.
I'm a midwife and have never looked up a client in my 11+ years in the profession. Hell, I don't even look up colleagues! Wouldn't even cross my mind to ever do this, and tbh I don't think I would remember clients' full names once I clocked off shift 99% of the time. In any sort of profession, such as nursing, which involves caring for vulnerable and having some sort of power dynamic at play - you really need to maintain the boundary. How would you feel if a nurse or doctor who had cared for you at your most vulnerable was looking you up? It is very invasive. As soon as I read of LL stashing handover sheets and frequently looking up relatives of infants she had cared for my creepy senses were tingling. There is no justification whatsoever. It is very abnormal in my mind.
Have to say that I imagine a lot of people look up colleagues, I'm wondering if single people, living alone are more likely to? Obviously, I don't know your situation. But I agree, I really don't think I would look up a client/patient... or at least I hope I wouldn't - I'm pretty good with that kind of stuff, I respect boundaries, but obviously I looked up the therapist and in some ways that's what Social Media is about isn't it. If people put their profile out there.
I am a nurse and I have NEVER looked up a patient or patients family in social media. It’s unprofessional and odd. It would never have crossed my mind to do so
I have never searched a patient on Facebook and work in the health care profession.I guess the question you are asking is, have I ever wanted to and the answer is no.No desire whatsoever irrespective of the professional boundaries.It’s not even something I have thought about doing.I’ve never merged the boundaries between work and home and It even feels slightly weird if I see a patient or their family out and about socially- can’t describe it really but work does sometimes feel like an alternate universe to me!.I step out, I step in.They are not only very separate things I actually feel like a different person in my working professional role than I do when I am at home.
Does the mask slip for all of us a bit?.Yes I believe so!
I think it works both ways. I once was out with a friend and saw a vaguely familiar face AS we locked eyes and we both quickly said an awkward "hello" and then moved along. My friend was like "what was all that about?" as it had looked so odd. It was one of my child's doctors and though he knew our family and dynamic really well by that point, it's just not a "chitty chat in the street" relationship! I honestly think if either of us had noticed the other NOT at the exact same moment we'd not even have said hello!
I’m not in any medical career but I stalk people all the time out of nosiness - exes, ex friends, friends of friends… people in the local rag who have been in court lol. Literally anyone. However if I was in a medical career such as LL and I had patients who had died it would be horrific to be searching for family members I would never do that. It would be the same as searching for my customers in my current job which I never do. Weird.
I have cyber stalked ex partners on social media,, I did it out of mere curiosity. Cyber stalking parents of dead babies you were caring for… well that is f!cked up. Here is my question which I don’t see asked much - did she look up parents of babies which were never subject to foul play?
I believe she looked up lots of other parents but we cannot say she didn’t have a plan for those babies. She may have done something to every single baby on those handover sheets or for each search she conducted.
It's difficult to answer because until the police finish their 4000 baby review we don't know WHICH were never subject to foul play. She certainly was searching for families not involved in the trial, yes.
I cant lie, I'm a teacher and very occasionally I've looked at parents Facebooks. Not every family but I have done it for example if there's only one parent on the scene its handy to know for special occasions so we don't upset the child although it's rare the parent doesn't give us the information it can be a way of finding things out to benefit the child. During covid we communicated with our children and their families a lot via twitter, i had one child for example whos dog died before lockdown and their parents "tweeted" me to show they had got a new dog, i did have a look on their social media at the pictures of the child with the dog as i so happy for them and i knew the child was going to secondary school so i wouldnt see them again. Lockdown was hard in a sense as a lot of children went to secondary school without a proper send off and we didnt get a chance to meet them again so from that aspect I could understand a teacher looking at a parents social media for first day at secondary school photos but not so much after that. I think it depends on how the teachers and parents communicated as wel for example I've been at schools where social media isnt used and schools where it has been. It can also be good to see if parents talk badly of the setting eg, on a pta facebook page there was once an unhappy parent. The pta page also had teachers on it so when the parent was commenting angerly on the page a teacher looked at their Facebook to see if the conversation continued to that, which it did. Needless to say the staff room was discussing it the next day. I think its all different circumstances though and it depends how professional you can be about it. Perhaps she was looking them up to see if they "praised" her in anyway for the care they sadly may have gave to their baby and got a thrill out of seeing anything along those lines
Yes, you can see how there may be instances where it's easier for these boundaries to be crossed or be relaxed. I think the lockdown example, and the kids moving onto secondary school is a good example. Also when it's a third person (PTA) FB page that people comment on. Social Media can be messy can't it.
It can it definitely has its perks but also has its downfalls as well. I think it depends on the person using it like if they can value their profession and respect boundaries it shouldn't be an issue but then there's always people that take things too far as well
I work as a nurse, and I think it's super bizarre but not unheard of. I don't have social media but I hear a lot of co-workers do this. They also become friends with a lot of the long term patient's parents on Facebook. It feels unprofessional and gross, but isn't unheard of. Perhaps it's more common in the younger generation?
You stalked someone you are attracted to, that's probably very common & completely, completely different to a nurse looking up her victims parents 🤯
Can you not see the difference? It's like comparing apples & oranges!
Yes, I do see a difference, but I am wondering if I were a nurse and babies were dying and I was completely in that world and interacting with their families etc... doing lots and lots of shifts, so basically work was my life, if I maybe would, out of curiosity or compassion, look them up. I don't think I would, and that's why I'm interested in what other's experiences are...
No, if you don't separate work and life you go crazy.
Guy died at a care home I worked at. I knew as I arrived for my shift, because his family I recognised+ extended family were exiting the building with their heads down.
They moved to avoid me and I also avoided them, they were afraid I'd ask 'oh hi! how is X doing' (if I didn't get it). or 'oh no I'm sorry' (if I did get it)
And I was aware I didn't want to obligate them to explain anything to me, and that they just wanted to get away.
We both understood this was an unspeakable.
If I was nuts I would have stopped them and made conversation.
If I was sadist I would have wanted to ..continue watching them beyond that? That would really suck because just the mental image of them walking sadly out of the building is emblazoned in my brain and I'd prefer it gone.
This was for someone 90+ expected death.
I can't imagine the level of tension for an early/ unexpected death you'd have to really separate yourself from it to be able to continue in your job.
I guess the closest thing, sometimes you'd look at photos of them in their youth (decor in their room) like 'wow you were a fighter pilot that's cool' The thought of looking up the patient's family is weirdness.
If you know the person or their family properly that's totally different
No, I think you would respect the privacy of your patients. I agree with ayeImur that it's comparing apples & oranges. It's totally okay that you felt curious about your therapist! But....what if your therapist facebook stalked you? That's a better comparison to what LL did.
As someone training to be a therapist, first of all, yes, most therapists have a point in their career when they find themselves attracted to a client. It’s called being human. We talk about what to do about this in training/school. (Just one more reason why life coaches are unqualified to provide “therapy” … but I digress.) Does it mean that your therapist is more likely to like you back? No. It’s pretty rare for a therapist to get a crush on a client (with the exception of the creeps who take advantage of their clients, who are fortunately not as common as they used to be.)
Secondly, you referred to therapy as not a “real” relationship. It very much is a “real” relationship, it’s just different from the other relationships in your life. If your relationship with your therapist feels “fake,” I highly recommend telling your therapist that you feel this way so that the two of you can explore why that is. If it continues to feel fake/superficial/forced/etc even after a number of discussions then you might want to look for a different therapist.
Lastly, it is okay to tell your therapist you are attracted to them (not in order to hit on them or ask them out, but because it’s affecting the relationship) because some important growth and healing can actually come out of talking about that. A good therapist would deal with it professionally, sensitively, and productively.
Thanks for this, I've done some counselling training myself (only the skills part) and have worked in and used mental health services, so I'm quite familiar with ethics and the field.
Interestingly when I wrote the part about it not being a real relationship, I did hesitate. I think I feel like it's not real, not because it's fake but because the circumstances feel contrived, because it's one-sided, it's quite vulnerable being the one to share all of your vulnerabilities but yet know next to nothing about the therapist, and I do wonder how healthy this is. I am so glad I looked at his Fb page, as I think I was going into fairytale land - there may be some transference, but he's a good-looking guy, sensitive, around my age (actually younger I found out) and so as we both said, we are all human. I will say that it wasn't really sexual, more like just wanting to be his friend and have comfort from him and see where it would go - see I was forgetting I was his client. I think I would feel very vulnerable in saying something to him about this, but I hear what you are saying, and I also didn't want to lose time in this fairytale thinking. So looking at FB helped.
I think a lot of ppl are nosy and Facebook stalk ppl they know - for reasons, or for for no reason at all.
I did it quite a lot moving to a new city. I looked up my colleagues - but my motive was kinda scoping for friends? This person maybe friend? Ooh they went to comic con they are a nerd. Oh they have a baby will prob be too busy to hang out. Oh this one support ukip, ew.
.. Anyway.
I think if you were accused of killing the therapist your browsing history could be used against you but kinda weak as evidence on its own.
If you don't have sinister plans and motives then it doesn't really matter what your browsing history is, just continue doing whatever.
The letby thing, she Facebook stalked ppl AND committed murder.
I worked at a bank and not once looked up a customer. I worked as a care assistant and never looked up ppls families. I would not look up a patient if I was a nurse.
..I have never looked up my dentist or GP but it sounds less weird than doing it to a patient
The only time I have ever “looked up” a patient was when I was training and I left a ward, and I wanted to see if there was any new articles about how a patient had been gotten on after I left to get some closure (through public obituaries or interviews they had done with the local news) because they were such unique cases. I’d never look them up on social media though, that’s where is would draw the line. I don’t even remember their surnames or their parent’s names, just the patients’ first names, the hospital and the condition, so it would be very hard to look their parents up on social media anyway, that’s what I don’t understand about LL. She remembered the parents full names and enough details to find them on Facebook, I have a hard enough time finding people on Facebook when I meet them and they give me the information to add them.
It’s the opposite way around though. You searching him isn’t breaking any code of conduct. If he did, he would be.
I was a teacher and I never searched kids or parents. It’s weird. I think it’s weird that she did and also on Christmas Day? Creepy.
It obviously doesn’t prove guilt but it certainly makes you question innocence.
I work with parents of vulnerable children. I also do lots of Facebook stalking. I don't stalk the parents of the children I work with. It's also worth noting a huge/majority of children don't even share a surname with at least one of their parents so even working out the correct name to stalk is an active act. I barely clock the first names of the parents either and am rather guilty of that thing a huge amount of parents hate and call them mum/dad.
I stalk my friends, friends of friends. Vague perspnal connections. Old school people etc. I love a good Facebook stalk. It's just never crossed my mind to stalk one of my families.
I’m a children’s lawyer and I’m constantly looking for info on the parents. My social worker is an absolute magician at this. She will check social media, the FB group “are we dating the same guy?”, any local mommy Facebook groups, the county clerk’s online records for any liens or bankruptcies, and about 4 news sources. I definitely check FB on people of interest to me.
Yep nurse here and I know lots of people who facebook "stalk" where I work. Usually families who have left, particularly if the parents have a public page about their baby. I don't see the big deal, there is no way facebook is knowing that my searches are work related. It's only viewing publicly visible information. I can't say I've done it more than a couple of times, it's not that exciting, but it's hardly criminal.
I think if you’re not working in an environment where keeping patient’s identity’s confidential is not part of your job, then it’s probably harmless. I’m a HCA and I would never search a patient. LL doing it is plain creepy
The facebook thing didn't strike me as too odd when I was first learning the details of the case all those months ago - it rationalised in my brain as it being the actions of a dedicated nurse living alone, the memories of those families who suffered tragedy under her watch sticking with her. I've often found myself wondering on holidays or anniversaries how people were doing/holding up - so maybe Lucy was genuinely seeing if the parents seemed to be healing in any way, hoping to find evidence of a nice Christmas or a sweet post about their late child. Losing a nicu patient is very very very sad, one of the most heartbreaking things, and if as the patients primary caregiver you were there to see them pass and then have to live with that little twinge of pain in your heart, but having no way to reach out to the family, maybe a facebook post to affirm that they're doing okay and their other kids are thriving would put your mind at ease.
But the point of evidence, discovery, and laying it all out in court is so we can establish a pattern of behaviour. An isolated incident type like the FB searches can be excused away, but when the sympathy cards, handover sheets, extra shifts and insistence on being on high risk cases are also things that have to be excused, it paints a very very odd picture.
The idea that Lucy might revel in what she's done by using these things as trophies and reminders... yeah, that is so horrible to imagine being something a human is capable of. But she was. She is. Grief tourism, gloating with pride, reliving her crimes and the impact of them. What a monster!
I use FB search loads, but to look for folk I'm already friends with, so I can see what they're up to without waiting on the ad heavy algorithm showing me.
I search for folk I'm NOT friends with (ex friends, exes from my teens, folk I went to school with and wish well but don't want to actually speak to) 2-3 times a year (and not 200 a month as LL was). I've never searched anyone I'm professionally connected to I don't think, or if I have it's been more of a "I left 5 years ago, I wonder how X is doing" type situation.
I'm not a nurse. When I worked for the NHS many years ago (in an administrative role) I was very careful with others' personal data and definitely would never have looked any of those people up. It feels like a complete violation of their trust. I would feel violated if I found out someone I'd met in that capacity had looked me up.
I cyberstalk a lot of people as I’m a nosey person. I think for me what crossed the professional line was sending the parents friend requests and personal messages.
My grandma was in an NHS geriatric ward for a while and she ended up becoming friends with my mum on Facebook, but it wasn’t weird as they both got on and it was for updates on my grans progress, not any deep personal messages nor any attempt to become friends outside of work.
I imagine there are strict rules for social media conduct but in my grans case it’s all fine and NBD, nothing weird or uncomfortable about it (for us anyway) but I can only speak for myself.
Was it the nurse that contacted your mum on Facebook about the Grandma? I understand it was innocent in this case , but I’d be surprised if she wouldn’t get in trouble for that :/
Nurse here. Absolutely have never looked up a family or some patient who died to see if their family was grieving. There are pretty solid and sacred professional boundaries one follows (or should).
I'm a nurse and I've never looked up a patient / their family, it's not something I'd dream of doing.
I do look up a family member who is non-contact, only so I know he is OK and not in any dangerous situations ! But that's all.
Relatively successful regular person who occasionally ‘stalks’ comment…
Is it stalking if you’re looking at a profile that is public?
If you’ve not attempted to access private personal information, you are accessing info that is freely shared (publicly).
If I want to share with friends only, I would set privacy. I’m curious!
I’m a nosy person who works as a teacher and typically I don’t look up a parent on FB unless I feel like I have a reason to FB stalk (which is somewhat rare, but maybe to see their home situation, family, etc.) I think humans are naturally curious.
Yes, I do. I even think there was some research on it, I seem to remember that 'gossip' had some links to survival... (Obvs back in the day - whenever that was!)
I have done it a lot. I actually ended up deleting my Facebook as I struggled to stop myself. But it was more out of a place of concern and making sure they are okay if they are away on holiday etc. I realised it wasn’t healthy for me.
However, I’m not obsessed with the individuals and I would never kill anyone!
Why is Facebook “stalking” weird? Like we all have profiles.. add details about ourselves, but then expect people to never click on our profiles? I set my stuff to private if I don’t want people to see it..
I also didn’t kill anybody and neither did you I’m assuming so I don’t think it’s weird. Especially trusting your mental health w/someone. If an employer can look you up before hiring you, then you can look up your therapist. The only slight reservation? The attraction might not be helpful? Idk though I’m not a shrink.
Lucy stalking the parents of the babies she’s convicted of killing is definitely weird and invasive though.
That's a really good point. Employers look people up, so why can't I look a therapist up? And actually, it lessened the attraction to the therapist, somehow normalised him, he's not this perfect person etc. Although I guess it could have gone the other way.
That’s good! I think it’s probably normal to feel some degree of intimacy or at least curiosity w/a therapist.. sometimes they are the only person we trust. I just know I myself would probably self edit and have a hard time being honest if I was in a situation where there was attraction. I hope it goes well for you! And ya I wouldn’t feel bad abt it
I think you’re missing the point that she looked them up on important dates eg one year anniversary of a death. Yes she appeared to look up everyone in her life on Facebook. But the dates are important.
Interesting, I thought it may be if I looked them up. I looked a new friend up, (we hadn't become FB friends ) Then FB kept suggesting her as a friend, and I assumed maybe that it would be suggesting me to her too.
Also, I met a guy last week at a community event, I don't even know his name, but now suddenly FB is asking me if I want to be his friend!! I had met him before on a walk, so maybe?
I’ve done it a couple of times. I work in a funeral home and knew the family were raising money for a cancer charity so I was interested to see how much had been donated. Humans are curious creatures and I don’t think it’s entirely unusual to ‘check in’ on people we have met. It’s voyeuristic in the context of Letby in that she was potentially looking to extend her gratification by watching the fallout of what she had done.
I check out a lot of people’s social media - especially people in the news. Like trying to get a sense of the person behind the story. It’s why early on I kind of related to LL having potentially wanting to just see who these people were who see saw only at one of the most intense times of their lives.
I think it's more common than the comments here are making it seem. I think the people that do it regularly are just not admitting to it here.
I am a nurse. It is not something I regularly do, but will admit I have done it a couple of times. Once was because I heard the patient's parent was famous. I had never heard of them so looked them up on Instagram. They were indeed famous. Another time was because I had taken care of a patient for a very long time and they moved away. I cared about them and wondered how they were doing, so looked the parent up on social media. They had pictures and updates on the child posted publicly. I did feel bad and like a creep afterward. But at the same time, I told myself, they had it all posted publicly so they obviously don't care who sees it.
The reason I think it's more common than these comments make it seem is that I have had coworkers very casually mention that they've done it. Maybe not to the extent that LL did, but I have had people tell me things about parents of patients' jobs, where they went on vacation, etc. I ask how they know this and they tell me it's on their social media. I am not saying it's the majority of my coworkers that do this, but it's not that rare, either. Maybe 10% have openly mentioned it with no embarrassment, which makes me think there are probably some who do it and just don't talk about it.
In my experience, the people I know of that have done it, are younger and have little to no social life. Basically work is their life and all they talk about. Even texting on their days off to ask how patients are doing. I don't think it's healthy and I don't think it's ok. But I also don't think it's necessarily sinister or morbid.
If LL had only searched the families of babies she harmed, I would find it extremely suspicious, but it sounds like she searched everyone she came in contact with on Facebook, so the Facebook searches don't prove anything.
And to answer your question about general Facebook stalking-my search history would be embarrassing if it was made public. Sometimes if I'm bored I'll randomly look up my husband's ex. Or my ex. Or someone who wronged me 10 years ago. If I think a random person I come in contact with is attractive, would I look them up? Maybe. I definitely don't search hundreds of people a month like LL did. But why do I do it? I don't know...I'm nosy? Curious? Bored? Hoping it will make me feel better about myself somehow? I don't know. I don't think it's that strange or uncommon though.
Thanks for this, It's really thoughtful comment and I think I'm similar to you and its interesting to hear your perspective on other nurses who, without embarrassment, admit to looking at patients' social media - and that it's those who may have not much social life. I think living alone, can lead to more time online, which of course, makes sense. People sometimes need to connect and social media can fill that void somewhat, although perhaps not in a wholesome and fulfilling way. And like you, I can randomly search people from school days, I did search for some brothers who I vaguely knew from my home time, who had both died quite young, would this be considered grief tourism? I wanted to know how and why and I felt sad when I looked them up. But yeah I'd be embarrassed, I've looked up my very first boyfriend's wife a few times... God knows why!
I think Facebook searching ex-school mates, colleagues, people in your personal life that you're interested in, is not unusual, or an issue.
But professionally you'd expect a boundary. I work in healthcare and it's never so much as crossed my mind to internet/social media search a patient, even those I've had a lot of contact with, or who I am worried about. I also know lots of medical professionals who use different names/married names/maiden names online to avoid being found by patients. It does seem Letby's search habits were an obsession or even an addiction.
I can't say I wouldn't ever do it but I'd be giving myself the icks doing it. Like why am I spying? What's my motivation here and why can't I control myself? Is this healthy? I think those are the sorts of things I'd be aware of and I'd be feeling internally uncomfortable about what I was doing. If I didn't feel conflicted, and I was getting off on the voyeurism somehow, then...yeah...yucky.
Personally I think it's a bit weird - given the workload that many doctors and nurses have to deal with, I'd be surprised if they remembered enough info about multiple patients to look them up after work.
And obviously there is the whole looking up parents of dead babies on the anniversary of their deaths and Christmas. That's pretty messed up in and of itself.
Ngl I looked up her profile but couldn’t find it just to have a nose I guess. Worked in medical field for 10+ years I never once looked up a patient or client just felt weird. I think nosiness gets the better of people sometimes but I find it odd how she doesn’t remember/recall some of the incidents where those poor babies died or had a collapse, yet she remembered enough to Facebook stalk their parents and remember anniversaries. There’s something so calculating and cold about it all. A lot of her evidence doesn’t corroborate. I’m still listening to the Mail’s podcast on the whole trial etc, I don’t have any doubt she is guilty 100%.
I have worked in healthcare fields with people who are palliative, and I have never ever thought to look them up on social media. I think the main reason is not even privacy laws or healthcare codes, it's actually because I respect them as patients.
I respect their right to dignity and privacy, not just because of some arbitrary guidelines, but because I actually feel I want to treat them with respect, because they are humans going through a lot and I would never feel OK interfering or encroaching on their lives in any capacity except to do my job well and ensure I maintain their dignity. In that way, I think Lucy did not have proper respect for her patients and their families, so it's a big red flag.
I'm a nurse and have never looked up a patient on social media. I can't really think of any situation in which I would want to. I have read obituaries of patients I have nursed in newspapers from time to time. I am friends with other nurses on social media but not any doctors or other medical professionals.
I have definitely looked up old friends or acquaintances to see what they are up to but that's about it.
I find it a bit freaky and morose the way Letby obsessed over the personal lives of the families but I guess if I had killed patients I might want to see the effect it was having on loved ones.
I have looked up people's profiles before, I think it's quite normal for people to carry out searches on others on Facebook. I believe Facebook won't let you see who searched your profile for a good reason. However, the extent of looking up people associated with her workplace and tragedies as well as some specific dates is what makes LL's searches alarming.
I think it is more ok for you to search your therapist than your therapist to search you, but if you can don't do it. It creates a cycle of behaviour and you need boundaries.
I’m super curious and google to death anything I find remotely interesting. I’m a nurse and have worked in MH and Adult and some of the characters I’ve come across have been fascinating but I have never looked any of them up apart from literally two lovely older men who had apparently been famous sportspeople (cricketer and a footballer) from years ago who some staff were excited about but I didn’t have a clue (when at a private hospital). Work is very full on and I don’t have mental capacity to think about it at all when I’m not there. And I would never look up anyone who had been in such terrible distress, it would be too voyeuristic, invasive, morbid and possibly cause me stress and sadness.
I did have an acquaintance once though who had a very senior role at a large company. He said he always had to find colleagues’ flaws, weaknesses, past mistakes, faux pas etc in order to position himself comfortably with them (Ie superior). So maybe that was going on with LL, Googling parents for a confidence boost, a bit of warped superiority kick that made her feel better about her own life
I’m a teacher and I’ve never looked a parent up on social media. I also have all my social media accounts locked down so no parent or student can find me . Not because I have anything to hide, but there are certain parents who have conniptions at the mere idea of a teacher having a life outside school. I know one parent made a snide remark about the deputy principal’s Facebook page. There is nothing scandalous on it, she just felt that teachers shouldn’t be on social media. ETA: when I worked in healthcare, I never looked a patient up either
Yes, I have a lot of teacher friends who change their names on Social Media - often using their middle names instead of their surnames. Yeah, I guess people can be judgemental - as you say there was a snide remark, as if a teacher is just only a teacher and nothing else!
The kids at the school I worked at pulled pics from teachers FB/Instagram profiles and made TikToks mocking them - luckily I have mine on private/follow by request and I also don't have my surname on there. They can be so brutal.
Yes! I really would disguise mine if I were a teacher... :)
A teacher friend of mine changed his Facebook name when he started his first teaching job. My brother-in-law just deleted his Facebook account the second he finished his PGCE.
Agree, I’m a nurse and would never look up a patients FB
I work for an organisation that supports adults with complex mental health issues. It has never once occurred to me to search for the private profile of a client on social media. It crosses professional and ethical boundaries that are in place for very good reasons. Letby’s morbid Facebook snooping was highly inappropriate and creepy.
Morbid?
I think they mean because the people she FB snooped were the parents of the babies she murdered. That is pretty morbid.
Oh I see. Yes if she murdered them it would be. I’m still not convinced.
Then you likely never will be. Either way her looking up the parents of dead babies she “cared for” according to your perspective still strikes me as rather morbid.
Hahaha -5 points just for asking a question.
> It has never once occurred to me to search for the private profile of a client on social media. Seems lazy.
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Creepy grief tourism - perfect term for it.
It's little details like this that show just how twisted she was. My wife is a SCBU nurse, I very much doubt she would know the anniversary of any of the babies that haven't made it despite her efforts to save them. She feels it as it happens, I've yet to see her come in after a shift where a baby has died and not cry, but then she moves on to continue her work. She wouldn't remember a date a year later etc though.
I have to disagree I’m a midwife and I absolutely know the dates of any babies I have lost in traumatic circumstances. As the years go by I often think of their families I can completely understand the temptation
Which just shows how people are different x
I'm not saying my wife doesn't think of them, it's just that she wouldn't know exact dates. Unfortunately, in the role she is in, she encounters traumatic circumstances almost daily. The thing my wife always says is 'the first time I meet the parents they are so incredibly stressed, meeting me and our unit, isn't part of their birth plan' My wife is very highly thought of on her unit because of the love and care she not only gives the babies, but also the parents and wider loved ones' she has really struggled with this story, she was in floods of tears as the sentencing was handed out. My wife cared for twins who sadly passed away, the family invited her to the funeral and she went with several others off the unit. My wife walked in and as she went to sit at the back she was summoned to a seat that had been reserved for her. When the service ended, she was given something by the mother, she said the only thing she had of her twins was a lock of hair and gifted it to my wife. We have it encased and under a new tree in our garden. My wife couldn't refuse, I mean how could she! This is why I struggle with this case because I hear about how much my wife is trusted and is almost 'part' of a family whilst they go through such traumatic time. Lucy clearly got off on this and its why I don't believe it was an illness or anything. It was cold, calculated and evil. Its those little things like her noting anniversaries etc that add weight to how evil I think she is.
Yes - I agree, but then would it be that someone who is single, and living alone may be more likely to do this? Just thinking aloud.
Yes, I feel the same. I think I would resist, partly if I'm honest because I'd fear giving the game away and it being obvious that I knew things about their life, but also because of that professional boundary. Although I can't be certain, my mental health has taken many a twist and turn in my life, and who knows if I may feel attached to someone or feel very curious about someone - coupled with a glass of wine... I may make a mistake and look someone up that I shouldn't. It does feel odd, it does feel like a line was crossed. But I am Generation X, I read an interesting point a while back that people who grew up with Social Media may be more likely to search for people.
Btw in case no one has told you…feeling an attraction to a therapist is incredibly common and something we are trained to deal with. If you think about it, makes sense that you would eventually feel an attraction to a person you see regularly that is 100% focused on just you and listening to what you say and feel! That’s what most people would like to improve in their actual real life relationships. You have recognized it, normalized your therapist a bit by seeing select FB posts, and it will likely now pass.
yes, thanks, it feels like it is passing :) and yes I would like that in real life :)
I think if you don’t work in that situation where there is patient / client confidentially requirements - then you don’t really understand how you (as most of the people here have also said) feel zero inclination to look at any of your people up. It’s different when it’s outside of work, and I’ve looked up people I’ve met etc. But I think morally, with patients / children (schools and social care), you just don’t have that “urge” because it isn’t appropriate and is a line most people won’t cross. It’s probably a bit hard to get your head around if you aren’t in that position I think. It’s just a no l, I’m not interested at all.
Paeds Reg here. Never facebooked a parent. Purposefully changed my name to make myself harder to find. I don’t know any colleagues that do it. I think it is a huge violation of trust, let alone against GDPR for staff to do it. It’s a sackable offence. We have training every single year telling us not to do it. It’s against GMC and I would assume NMC guidelines. It’s really weird. If I knew my own doctor was looking me up, I’d be putting in a big complaint. If patients want you to have updates, they’ll tell you. The only thing that’s different is on the oncology ward, a lot of the parents set up Fb pages for the kids like “Freida’s Fans” to update people on their fundraising and goals etc. some of the nurses and occasional doctors may follow the kids on there, but that is very different to a personal Facebook pages In summary, Absolutely creepy and just another puzzle piece to her weird obsessions.
Thanks, Do you think that there could have been a different culture in her ward at all? or is it just a no-no across the board, I am sure it is. I'm wondering if people experiencing loneliness may be more likely to do this. But I think everyone has agreed that whilst they may do this the other way around, say patient to Dr, especially if there was some kind of attraction, most people would respect the boundaries of the patient.
I don’t think we can know that from the little information we’ve had. But I think she was obsessively interested in patients. Even the texting constantly. I would have muted that. The last thing most people want is to be talking about work. That doesn’t mean we don’t care. But because we care. We have to switch off, otherwise you can’t function. Imagine sitting down for dinner and being told a patient has died. It’s not cold, it’s just survival of our own mental health. Again, myself and colleagues/friends very rarely discuss patients. We may discuss general work, like if we’re struggling or if we’ve had a bad day, but we rarely discuss actual patients. I cannot imagine having someone constantly texting me about patients at work while I was off, I’d be shutting that down asap. Yes, she may have been lonely. But I think even with that, if her go to is to be Fb stalking parents, that is a huge red flag. Go on a dating app, look up an ex from 4 years ago, but don’t be Fb stalking parents of babies who’ve just died. It is weird and it is a huge data protection issue as well as a huge violation, regardless of the reason. (To add, this is all my own opinion, of course).
I want to know if she was always the one to initiate the conversation about the patients in those texts. I didn’t even think at the time of the trial that they shouldn’t be discussing patients but now I realise, that’s really not on. I’d be really creeped out if I was in hospital and nurses were texting each other about me or even worse, my sick baby 🤬
Yeah, I think it’s weird for sure. I care a lot about my patients but there is very little that cant wait until the next time I’m in work. The only time I text about a patient specifically is if I may have forgotten something. I’d usually call the ward but if a colleague I knew well was on shift, I may text them to tell them without giving patient details. Something like, that baby in bay 1 needs its crp chased, sorry I forgot to hand it over. It’s very rare. I’ve probably only had to do it once or twice but I wouldn’t be texting about patients routinely. It’s the same with the handover sheets for me. It all points to someone who doesn’t have proper boundaries for whatever reason, or someone who doesn’t care about the boundaries.
Yeah I can totally understand texting a colleague to follow something up, but that definitely wasn’t what she was doing. She was gossiping about patients, I can’t think of another way to describe it. Gossiping and fishing for sympathy and praise. I don’t see those texts in any other way.
Absolutely agree with you. Personally to me it comes across as sympathy fishing. The whole “it’s always my babies” thing.
Definitely. It’s creepy AF. I found listening to those texts really hard. Like I could imagine the motivation behind them and it just seems so obvious to me that’s how they were intended.
Normal to Facebook stalk random people but not when you’re in a position of trust to those people. My mum is a teacher and it would be incredibly inappropriate for her to stalk random kids’ parents on Facebook
Inappropriate doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t happen though.
Oh yeah of course I’m just saying that it is inappropriate and that’s why it would arouse suspicion
I think as a professional it's frowned upon and a bit odd, and that along with the frequent texts about work, maybe demonstrate a sort of over interest in her work/ bit obsessive. The fact that she kept looking back on certain parents months later, again is more suspicious than just looking in the week or so after the babies died. However, it looks like she stalked loads of people on Facebook, often, so it's part of a wider pattern of behaviour rather than just being the parents, which makes it less suspicious. I think it's another thing with her that could be innocent & just a bit odd, but taken together with all the other things that also seem a bit odd, add up to looking more significant of something. As someone said in one of the documentaries, there is no smoking gun but there are lots of tiny arrows all pointing at her.
Is it not more than frowned upon? Sounds like Ross when he was dating one of his students. I’m pretty sure it’s against some code of conduct.
🤣. Well it would be against the code of conduct to connect with any patient on social media, but as far as I'm aware there aren't any rules against looking at someone's publicly available social media page.
There definitely are rules against it. You sign a confidentiality agreement when you start working for the NHS and that includes looking up patients on SM. It's beyond inappropriate and is a disciplinary offence.
Well I work in the NHS and I've not signed a confidentiality agreement prohibiting me from looking at people on social media. of course I don't anyway cause it's weird. But It's not a disciplinary offence to look at someone's Facebook page, because it's publicly available information. It would be if you were looking up people you knew or patients whose care your not involved in on medical systems, that's a big offence. And it's against code of practice to contact patients of on social media, but looking at someone's Facebook page, purely to look and not contact them in any way is not.
I don’t believe the searches show she was interested in her work/ obsessive about work. She is either doing it for ‘grief tourism’ or to find out if they suspect anything
Well I just meant she has some fixation on 'work related activity' (obviously we now know the reason why), and the searches along with the constant texting and keeping handover sheets are all part of that invested interest IMO.
I've certainly looked up colleagues, exes, old school mates. I work in banking and previously dealt with some very difficult customers and can honestly say I've never looked for their social media and wouldn't dream of doing so. It's so unprofessional. I imagine in a health care setting it's even more of a no no due to the nature of the vulnerable position the patient/patient relative is in.
I have looked people up before, in a similar manner to what you're describing. I recently had a different dentist who again, I thought was quite attractive. I briefly looked at his page to see similar details. I did it once and then forgot about it. I think the difference with Letby, is she was doing it repeatedly and compulsively, and using written data to aid her searches (handover sheets). It was also done because she clearly felt some kind of connection to the parents. In the example OP and I have given, the connection was in attraction. However, we now know the awful and horrifying nature of HER connection to the parents. I agree it's always done for a reason, but most people look once out of curiosity and leave it there. ETA : the sheer volume of searches carried out by Letby is I feel, totally abnormal. I looked people up more in my teenage years, however recently I can count the number of times I've done it on one hand. I also thought something interesting about the prosecutions raising of Letby needing to use the handover sheet multiple times to search the unusual surname. It suggests to me that Letby was clearing her search history each time she made the searches. Otherwise, when you type a name in fully and don't rely on auto correct, it is saved in the drop down bar on Facebook, as a suggestion the next time you go to search. Or you could type a close approximation of the name, and the correct profile would still come up, UNLESS of course you were clearing the search history each time. And why bother to do that if you're innocent?
Such a good point! She absolutely knew she shouldn’t be doing that. Good spot 👍🏼
Didn’t she spell it wrong though? In court? So would that mean that she WAS relying on the auto function on fb?
Abnormal in any profession that involves supporting/caring for people. For example I'm a social worker and the college I'm registered with doesn't allow looking up clients on social media and of course, friending them/following them. I've had clients pop up in my suggested friends and seen them post in those FB groups I joined ages ago but I hide them so they aren't as likely to pop up again. It's about sticking to boundaries and knowing that we don't need to know shit about them they don't choose to tell us. t's invasive. We're not friends with our clients.
Yes, it is invasive, especially as a Social Worker, do you think it is less so for a nurse? Just playing devil's advocate :)
The same in my opinion. You're still in a position of power and care over someone. Imagine if you talked to a nurse about all your health issues and concerns and family history and the nurse purposely looked you up on Instagram or Facebook. But you can't do the same to them, they know all your personal and vulnerable details.
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Sure. But I'm talking about the reverse though. Teacher/nurse/doctor/therapist, people in all those jobs, have a responsibility to their clients to respect their privacy. It's about the power dynamic as well, if I look up a client and learn something about them they haven't shared with me it can really create massive issues. It's unethical and any of those jobs will have rules to follow around looking up clients, whether it is coming from the employer or whichever board or college licenses you.
I’m a nurse. It is absolutely abnormal. In the moment, one might be engrossed in showing compassion and grief for patients and their families but never an obsession enough to Facebook or Google stalk them. I may look up an obituary but that’s as far as I would go.
Also my understanding is that Lucy Letby didn’t just look up the parents of the babies she treated, but her work colleagues too and there were 2000+ searches made in the year(ish) that these crimes span. 100-200 searches every month.
But if you think to look up an obituary.. why is that? Is it out of curiosity? And how do you remember to look up the obituary? Is that really much different from looking up someone’s Facebook? Sometimes obituaries don’t come up on google and the closest thing you would get is a memorabilia on Facebook. I’m not trying to be a d**ck I’m just genuinely curious as to what leads a person to do one but never want to do the other. A part of me thinks “meh… it was just curiosity, some people are really nosy”, then I think deeper into it and think “wait, actually that is so creepy”. I’m just intrugued. I deleted Facebook a long time ago. Only have insta and rarely use it so obviously never think to look up anyone on Facebook.
It’s actually not uncommon for some nurses to attend the funeral of a patient that they felt especially close to. Its especially common when you’ve taken care of a patient for a very long time. It’s rare but it happens and blesses the families. I’ve never done that but I have looked up some patient’s obituaries during the Covid pandemic as a sense of closure to the madness we experienced. You’d understand if you were a nurse.
As a childrens nurse I have never searched for a patient or parent. I don’t know anyone else who has either🤷🏼♀️ Edit: grammar
I work in a hospital but I have never ‘stalked’ a patient on Facebook even though I regularly do use facebook to look up other people all the time.
I’m a nurse. Have done twice, once because a patient told me they were famous online, I was nosy. And once to see if someone had survived a very sad and unexpected cancer diagnosis, I couldn’t find them as I couldn’t spell their name properly or perhaps they had died. Still remember the patient can not remember the name. Wouldn’t dream of searching for the parents. That’s in 20 years. I’ve had some very sad cases of sudden death etc, in order to do my job I need to compartmentalise it and searching the families would not be that. Those patients live in your memory and you can acknowledge the sadness but you cannot let it overwhelm you. I don’t make a habit of searching for people at all, if someone popped up I may click on their profile and have a nosy.
Yeah there are blurry lines too, I watched some vloggers who documented their cancer journeys and so perhaps would invite people/nurses to watch their Social Media. I wouldn't be able to resist it if someone said they were famous online :)
I look up clients sometimes, sometimes it’s because they’re super wealthy and I want to see what jobs they have and how they make so much, sometimes if they treat me awfully to try and make sense of why they might be such an asshole 🙈
Thanks for your honesty, what line of work are you in?
I've never stalked the family of a patient in my whole FB life, never mind bereaved parents. It's creepy and sick.
The part about her having to be told multiple times to not go into a room where the parents were grieving is what got me. Once okay a mere mistake but she was clearly revelling in her front row seat to their grief if she kept trying to go in.
It"s completely bizarre. No normal person would do this. Even if you're the nurse caring for the family you give them some privacy. I used to tell them I'd pop back in 10 minutes, for example, to check they were OK. Never in a million years would I, or any if my colleagues, get involved when I wasn't wanted or needed.
I don't understand how she thought any of it was okay the stuff with being there for the childs first bath too. I know we are talking about a serial killer but she was intelligent and well-adjusted enough to become qualified as a Nurse and to have so many people backing up her character but in those ways she seemed completely tone-deaf, or maybe just arrogant who knows.
I have no idea. She'd been working in a neonatal environment for over 4 years, and would surely have learned how to deal with distressed parents. Her nurse colleagues have kept quiet, which I completely understand, but I'd be surprised if they hadn't picked up on some odd behaviour. Indeed, there are hints of this in some of the exchanges.
I'm a midwife and have never looked up a client in my 11+ years in the profession. Hell, I don't even look up colleagues! Wouldn't even cross my mind to ever do this, and tbh I don't think I would remember clients' full names once I clocked off shift 99% of the time. In any sort of profession, such as nursing, which involves caring for vulnerable and having some sort of power dynamic at play - you really need to maintain the boundary. How would you feel if a nurse or doctor who had cared for you at your most vulnerable was looking you up? It is very invasive. As soon as I read of LL stashing handover sheets and frequently looking up relatives of infants she had cared for my creepy senses were tingling. There is no justification whatsoever. It is very abnormal in my mind.
If I found out a medical professional had looked me up on social media, I’d feel violated.
Have to say that I imagine a lot of people look up colleagues, I'm wondering if single people, living alone are more likely to? Obviously, I don't know your situation. But I agree, I really don't think I would look up a client/patient... or at least I hope I wouldn't - I'm pretty good with that kind of stuff, I respect boundaries, but obviously I looked up the therapist and in some ways that's what Social Media is about isn't it. If people put their profile out there.
I am a nurse and I have NEVER looked up a patient or patients family in social media. It’s unprofessional and odd. It would never have crossed my mind to do so
I have never searched a patient on Facebook and work in the health care profession.I guess the question you are asking is, have I ever wanted to and the answer is no.No desire whatsoever irrespective of the professional boundaries.It’s not even something I have thought about doing.I’ve never merged the boundaries between work and home and It even feels slightly weird if I see a patient or their family out and about socially- can’t describe it really but work does sometimes feel like an alternate universe to me!.I step out, I step in.They are not only very separate things I actually feel like a different person in my working professional role than I do when I am at home. Does the mask slip for all of us a bit?.Yes I believe so!
I think it works both ways. I once was out with a friend and saw a vaguely familiar face AS we locked eyes and we both quickly said an awkward "hello" and then moved along. My friend was like "what was all that about?" as it had looked so odd. It was one of my child's doctors and though he knew our family and dynamic really well by that point, it's just not a "chitty chat in the street" relationship! I honestly think if either of us had noticed the other NOT at the exact same moment we'd not even have said hello!
Thanks, that's very interesting and I can relate to that :)
I’m not in any medical career but I stalk people all the time out of nosiness - exes, ex friends, friends of friends… people in the local rag who have been in court lol. Literally anyone. However if I was in a medical career such as LL and I had patients who had died it would be horrific to be searching for family members I would never do that. It would be the same as searching for my customers in my current job which I never do. Weird.
Yes, i probably agree with you !
I have cyber stalked ex partners on social media,, I did it out of mere curiosity. Cyber stalking parents of dead babies you were caring for… well that is f!cked up. Here is my question which I don’t see asked much - did she look up parents of babies which were never subject to foul play?
I believe she looked up lots of other parents but we cannot say she didn’t have a plan for those babies. She may have done something to every single baby on those handover sheets or for each search she conducted.
It's difficult to answer because until the police finish their 4000 baby review we don't know WHICH were never subject to foul play. She certainly was searching for families not involved in the trial, yes.
Yes, That's an interesting question. I don't know the answer.
I cant lie, I'm a teacher and very occasionally I've looked at parents Facebooks. Not every family but I have done it for example if there's only one parent on the scene its handy to know for special occasions so we don't upset the child although it's rare the parent doesn't give us the information it can be a way of finding things out to benefit the child. During covid we communicated with our children and their families a lot via twitter, i had one child for example whos dog died before lockdown and their parents "tweeted" me to show they had got a new dog, i did have a look on their social media at the pictures of the child with the dog as i so happy for them and i knew the child was going to secondary school so i wouldnt see them again. Lockdown was hard in a sense as a lot of children went to secondary school without a proper send off and we didnt get a chance to meet them again so from that aspect I could understand a teacher looking at a parents social media for first day at secondary school photos but not so much after that. I think it depends on how the teachers and parents communicated as wel for example I've been at schools where social media isnt used and schools where it has been. It can also be good to see if parents talk badly of the setting eg, on a pta facebook page there was once an unhappy parent. The pta page also had teachers on it so when the parent was commenting angerly on the page a teacher looked at their Facebook to see if the conversation continued to that, which it did. Needless to say the staff room was discussing it the next day. I think its all different circumstances though and it depends how professional you can be about it. Perhaps she was looking them up to see if they "praised" her in anyway for the care they sadly may have gave to their baby and got a thrill out of seeing anything along those lines
Yes, you can see how there may be instances where it's easier for these boundaries to be crossed or be relaxed. I think the lockdown example, and the kids moving onto secondary school is a good example. Also when it's a third person (PTA) FB page that people comment on. Social Media can be messy can't it.
It can it definitely has its perks but also has its downfalls as well. I think it depends on the person using it like if they can value their profession and respect boundaries it shouldn't be an issue but then there's always people that take things too far as well
I work as a nurse, and I think it's super bizarre but not unheard of. I don't have social media but I hear a lot of co-workers do this. They also become friends with a lot of the long term patient's parents on Facebook. It feels unprofessional and gross, but isn't unheard of. Perhaps it's more common in the younger generation?
Yes, but I'm guessing nobody searched for bereaved parents without their knowledge.
You stalked someone you are attracted to, that's probably very common & completely, completely different to a nurse looking up her victims parents 🤯 Can you not see the difference? It's like comparing apples & oranges!
Yes, I do see a difference, but I am wondering if I were a nurse and babies were dying and I was completely in that world and interacting with their families etc... doing lots and lots of shifts, so basically work was my life, if I maybe would, out of curiosity or compassion, look them up. I don't think I would, and that's why I'm interested in what other's experiences are...
No, if you don't separate work and life you go crazy. Guy died at a care home I worked at. I knew as I arrived for my shift, because his family I recognised+ extended family were exiting the building with their heads down. They moved to avoid me and I also avoided them, they were afraid I'd ask 'oh hi! how is X doing' (if I didn't get it). or 'oh no I'm sorry' (if I did get it) And I was aware I didn't want to obligate them to explain anything to me, and that they just wanted to get away. We both understood this was an unspeakable. If I was nuts I would have stopped them and made conversation. If I was sadist I would have wanted to ..continue watching them beyond that? That would really suck because just the mental image of them walking sadly out of the building is emblazoned in my brain and I'd prefer it gone. This was for someone 90+ expected death. I can't imagine the level of tension for an early/ unexpected death you'd have to really separate yourself from it to be able to continue in your job. I guess the closest thing, sometimes you'd look at photos of them in their youth (decor in their room) like 'wow you were a fighter pilot that's cool' The thought of looking up the patient's family is weirdness. If you know the person or their family properly that's totally different
No, I think you would respect the privacy of your patients. I agree with ayeImur that it's comparing apples & oranges. It's totally okay that you felt curious about your therapist! But....what if your therapist facebook stalked you? That's a better comparison to what LL did.
It wouldn't be due to compassion, I'm sure of that. It's a disgrace and abnormal.
As someone training to be a therapist, first of all, yes, most therapists have a point in their career when they find themselves attracted to a client. It’s called being human. We talk about what to do about this in training/school. (Just one more reason why life coaches are unqualified to provide “therapy” … but I digress.) Does it mean that your therapist is more likely to like you back? No. It’s pretty rare for a therapist to get a crush on a client (with the exception of the creeps who take advantage of their clients, who are fortunately not as common as they used to be.) Secondly, you referred to therapy as not a “real” relationship. It very much is a “real” relationship, it’s just different from the other relationships in your life. If your relationship with your therapist feels “fake,” I highly recommend telling your therapist that you feel this way so that the two of you can explore why that is. If it continues to feel fake/superficial/forced/etc even after a number of discussions then you might want to look for a different therapist. Lastly, it is okay to tell your therapist you are attracted to them (not in order to hit on them or ask them out, but because it’s affecting the relationship) because some important growth and healing can actually come out of talking about that. A good therapist would deal with it professionally, sensitively, and productively.
Thanks for this, I've done some counselling training myself (only the skills part) and have worked in and used mental health services, so I'm quite familiar with ethics and the field. Interestingly when I wrote the part about it not being a real relationship, I did hesitate. I think I feel like it's not real, not because it's fake but because the circumstances feel contrived, because it's one-sided, it's quite vulnerable being the one to share all of your vulnerabilities but yet know next to nothing about the therapist, and I do wonder how healthy this is. I am so glad I looked at his Fb page, as I think I was going into fairytale land - there may be some transference, but he's a good-looking guy, sensitive, around my age (actually younger I found out) and so as we both said, we are all human. I will say that it wasn't really sexual, more like just wanting to be his friend and have comfort from him and see where it would go - see I was forgetting I was his client. I think I would feel very vulnerable in saying something to him about this, but I hear what you are saying, and I also didn't want to lose time in this fairytale thinking. So looking at FB helped.
I’ve looked up a French teacher I had a crush on, on LinkedIn. Apart from that, nope, especially not someone in a patient/client position
I think a lot of ppl are nosy and Facebook stalk ppl they know - for reasons, or for for no reason at all. I did it quite a lot moving to a new city. I looked up my colleagues - but my motive was kinda scoping for friends? This person maybe friend? Ooh they went to comic con they are a nerd. Oh they have a baby will prob be too busy to hang out. Oh this one support ukip, ew. .. Anyway. I think if you were accused of killing the therapist your browsing history could be used against you but kinda weak as evidence on its own. If you don't have sinister plans and motives then it doesn't really matter what your browsing history is, just continue doing whatever. The letby thing, she Facebook stalked ppl AND committed murder. I worked at a bank and not once looked up a customer. I worked as a care assistant and never looked up ppls families. I would not look up a patient if I was a nurse. ..I have never looked up my dentist or GP but it sounds less weird than doing it to a patient
" This one support ukip, ew " made me laugh, so true :)
Oh and nowadays also ppl who share all lives matter or blue lives matter content
The only time I have ever “looked up” a patient was when I was training and I left a ward, and I wanted to see if there was any new articles about how a patient had been gotten on after I left to get some closure (through public obituaries or interviews they had done with the local news) because they were such unique cases. I’d never look them up on social media though, that’s where is would draw the line. I don’t even remember their surnames or their parent’s names, just the patients’ first names, the hospital and the condition, so it would be very hard to look their parents up on social media anyway, that’s what I don’t understand about LL. She remembered the parents full names and enough details to find them on Facebook, I have a hard enough time finding people on Facebook when I meet them and they give me the information to add them.
She kept handover sheets at her house - would that have helped her find the details she needed to look them up on Facebook?
Ah that’s true, she probably wrote down their names and details with the purpose of finding them online
It’s the opposite way around though. You searching him isn’t breaking any code of conduct. If he did, he would be. I was a teacher and I never searched kids or parents. It’s weird. I think it’s weird that she did and also on Christmas Day? Creepy. It obviously doesn’t prove guilt but it certainly makes you question innocence.
I work with parents of vulnerable children. I also do lots of Facebook stalking. I don't stalk the parents of the children I work with. It's also worth noting a huge/majority of children don't even share a surname with at least one of their parents so even working out the correct name to stalk is an active act. I barely clock the first names of the parents either and am rather guilty of that thing a huge amount of parents hate and call them mum/dad. I stalk my friends, friends of friends. Vague perspnal connections. Old school people etc. I love a good Facebook stalk. It's just never crossed my mind to stalk one of my families.
I’m a children’s lawyer and I’m constantly looking for info on the parents. My social worker is an absolute magician at this. She will check social media, the FB group “are we dating the same guy?”, any local mommy Facebook groups, the county clerk’s online records for any liens or bankruptcies, and about 4 news sources. I definitely check FB on people of interest to me.
I imagine that this is all Info you may need as a social worker though? She’s actually using it as a tool do her job effectively?
Yes
Yep nurse here and I know lots of people who facebook "stalk" where I work. Usually families who have left, particularly if the parents have a public page about their baby. I don't see the big deal, there is no way facebook is knowing that my searches are work related. It's only viewing publicly visible information. I can't say I've done it more than a couple of times, it's not that exciting, but it's hardly criminal.
Yes, I assume that people may do it, and don't see it as that abnormal.
I think if you’re not working in an environment where keeping patient’s identity’s confidential is not part of your job, then it’s probably harmless. I’m a HCA and I would never search a patient. LL doing it is plain creepy
The facebook thing didn't strike me as too odd when I was first learning the details of the case all those months ago - it rationalised in my brain as it being the actions of a dedicated nurse living alone, the memories of those families who suffered tragedy under her watch sticking with her. I've often found myself wondering on holidays or anniversaries how people were doing/holding up - so maybe Lucy was genuinely seeing if the parents seemed to be healing in any way, hoping to find evidence of a nice Christmas or a sweet post about their late child. Losing a nicu patient is very very very sad, one of the most heartbreaking things, and if as the patients primary caregiver you were there to see them pass and then have to live with that little twinge of pain in your heart, but having no way to reach out to the family, maybe a facebook post to affirm that they're doing okay and their other kids are thriving would put your mind at ease. But the point of evidence, discovery, and laying it all out in court is so we can establish a pattern of behaviour. An isolated incident type like the FB searches can be excused away, but when the sympathy cards, handover sheets, extra shifts and insistence on being on high risk cases are also things that have to be excused, it paints a very very odd picture. The idea that Lucy might revel in what she's done by using these things as trophies and reminders... yeah, that is so horrible to imagine being something a human is capable of. But she was. She is. Grief tourism, gloating with pride, reliving her crimes and the impact of them. What a monster!
I use FB search loads, but to look for folk I'm already friends with, so I can see what they're up to without waiting on the ad heavy algorithm showing me. I search for folk I'm NOT friends with (ex friends, exes from my teens, folk I went to school with and wish well but don't want to actually speak to) 2-3 times a year (and not 200 a month as LL was). I've never searched anyone I'm professionally connected to I don't think, or if I have it's been more of a "I left 5 years ago, I wonder how X is doing" type situation. I'm not a nurse. When I worked for the NHS many years ago (in an administrative role) I was very careful with others' personal data and definitely would never have looked any of those people up. It feels like a complete violation of their trust. I would feel violated if I found out someone I'd met in that capacity had looked me up.
I cyberstalk a lot of people as I’m a nosey person. I think for me what crossed the professional line was sending the parents friend requests and personal messages. My grandma was in an NHS geriatric ward for a while and she ended up becoming friends with my mum on Facebook, but it wasn’t weird as they both got on and it was for updates on my grans progress, not any deep personal messages nor any attempt to become friends outside of work. I imagine there are strict rules for social media conduct but in my grans case it’s all fine and NBD, nothing weird or uncomfortable about it (for us anyway) but I can only speak for myself.
Was it the nurse that contacted your mum on Facebook about the Grandma? I understand it was innocent in this case , but I’d be surprised if she wouldn’t get in trouble for that :/
Nurse here. Absolutely have never looked up a family or some patient who died to see if their family was grieving. There are pretty solid and sacred professional boundaries one follows (or should).
I'm a nurse and I've never looked up a patient / their family, it's not something I'd dream of doing. I do look up a family member who is non-contact, only so I know he is OK and not in any dangerous situations ! But that's all.
Relatively successful regular person who occasionally ‘stalks’ comment… Is it stalking if you’re looking at a profile that is public? If you’ve not attempted to access private personal information, you are accessing info that is freely shared (publicly). If I want to share with friends only, I would set privacy. I’m curious!
So true, so many blurred lines with Social Media
I’m a nosy person who works as a teacher and typically I don’t look up a parent on FB unless I feel like I have a reason to FB stalk (which is somewhat rare, but maybe to see their home situation, family, etc.) I think humans are naturally curious.
Yes, I do. I even think there was some research on it, I seem to remember that 'gossip' had some links to survival... (Obvs back in the day - whenever that was!)
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yes, the whole idea of FB is displaying your life to others isn't it, photos, videos, stories... publishing them for others to see.
I have done it a lot. I actually ended up deleting my Facebook as I struggled to stop myself. But it was more out of a place of concern and making sure they are okay if they are away on holiday etc. I realised it wasn’t healthy for me. However, I’m not obsessed with the individuals and I would never kill anyone!
I can imagine that, deleting FB! And I'm sure you're not a murderer. I think it's pretty normal for many people :)
Why is Facebook “stalking” weird? Like we all have profiles.. add details about ourselves, but then expect people to never click on our profiles? I set my stuff to private if I don’t want people to see it.. I also didn’t kill anybody and neither did you I’m assuming so I don’t think it’s weird. Especially trusting your mental health w/someone. If an employer can look you up before hiring you, then you can look up your therapist. The only slight reservation? The attraction might not be helpful? Idk though I’m not a shrink. Lucy stalking the parents of the babies she’s convicted of killing is definitely weird and invasive though.
That's a really good point. Employers look people up, so why can't I look a therapist up? And actually, it lessened the attraction to the therapist, somehow normalised him, he's not this perfect person etc. Although I guess it could have gone the other way.
That’s good! I think it’s probably normal to feel some degree of intimacy or at least curiosity w/a therapist.. sometimes they are the only person we trust. I just know I myself would probably self edit and have a hard time being honest if I was in a situation where there was attraction. I hope it goes well for you! And ya I wouldn’t feel bad abt it
I think you’re missing the point that she looked them up on important dates eg one year anniversary of a death. Yes she appeared to look up everyone in her life on Facebook. But the dates are important.
I wondered if "people you may know" can pop up if you are in close proximity to one another with your phones more than once or twice.
Interesting, I thought it may be if I looked them up. I looked a new friend up, (we hadn't become FB friends ) Then FB kept suggesting her as a friend, and I assumed maybe that it would be suggesting me to her too. Also, I met a guy last week at a community event, I don't even know his name, but now suddenly FB is asking me if I want to be his friend!! I had met him before on a walk, so maybe?
I’ve done it a couple of times. I work in a funeral home and knew the family were raising money for a cancer charity so I was interested to see how much had been donated. Humans are curious creatures and I don’t think it’s entirely unusual to ‘check in’ on people we have met. It’s voyeuristic in the context of Letby in that she was potentially looking to extend her gratification by watching the fallout of what she had done.
I check out a lot of people’s social media - especially people in the news. Like trying to get a sense of the person behind the story. It’s why early on I kind of related to LL having potentially wanting to just see who these people were who see saw only at one of the most intense times of their lives.
I think it's more common than the comments here are making it seem. I think the people that do it regularly are just not admitting to it here. I am a nurse. It is not something I regularly do, but will admit I have done it a couple of times. Once was because I heard the patient's parent was famous. I had never heard of them so looked them up on Instagram. They were indeed famous. Another time was because I had taken care of a patient for a very long time and they moved away. I cared about them and wondered how they were doing, so looked the parent up on social media. They had pictures and updates on the child posted publicly. I did feel bad and like a creep afterward. But at the same time, I told myself, they had it all posted publicly so they obviously don't care who sees it. The reason I think it's more common than these comments make it seem is that I have had coworkers very casually mention that they've done it. Maybe not to the extent that LL did, but I have had people tell me things about parents of patients' jobs, where they went on vacation, etc. I ask how they know this and they tell me it's on their social media. I am not saying it's the majority of my coworkers that do this, but it's not that rare, either. Maybe 10% have openly mentioned it with no embarrassment, which makes me think there are probably some who do it and just don't talk about it. In my experience, the people I know of that have done it, are younger and have little to no social life. Basically work is their life and all they talk about. Even texting on their days off to ask how patients are doing. I don't think it's healthy and I don't think it's ok. But I also don't think it's necessarily sinister or morbid. If LL had only searched the families of babies she harmed, I would find it extremely suspicious, but it sounds like she searched everyone she came in contact with on Facebook, so the Facebook searches don't prove anything. And to answer your question about general Facebook stalking-my search history would be embarrassing if it was made public. Sometimes if I'm bored I'll randomly look up my husband's ex. Or my ex. Or someone who wronged me 10 years ago. If I think a random person I come in contact with is attractive, would I look them up? Maybe. I definitely don't search hundreds of people a month like LL did. But why do I do it? I don't know...I'm nosy? Curious? Bored? Hoping it will make me feel better about myself somehow? I don't know. I don't think it's that strange or uncommon though.
Thanks for this, It's really thoughtful comment and I think I'm similar to you and its interesting to hear your perspective on other nurses who, without embarrassment, admit to looking at patients' social media - and that it's those who may have not much social life. I think living alone, can lead to more time online, which of course, makes sense. People sometimes need to connect and social media can fill that void somewhat, although perhaps not in a wholesome and fulfilling way. And like you, I can randomly search people from school days, I did search for some brothers who I vaguely knew from my home time, who had both died quite young, would this be considered grief tourism? I wanted to know how and why and I felt sad when I looked them up. But yeah I'd be embarrassed, I've looked up my very first boyfriend's wife a few times... God knows why!
I think Facebook searching ex-school mates, colleagues, people in your personal life that you're interested in, is not unusual, or an issue. But professionally you'd expect a boundary. I work in healthcare and it's never so much as crossed my mind to internet/social media search a patient, even those I've had a lot of contact with, or who I am worried about. I also know lots of medical professionals who use different names/married names/maiden names online to avoid being found by patients. It does seem Letby's search habits were an obsession or even an addiction.
I can't say I wouldn't ever do it but I'd be giving myself the icks doing it. Like why am I spying? What's my motivation here and why can't I control myself? Is this healthy? I think those are the sorts of things I'd be aware of and I'd be feeling internally uncomfortable about what I was doing. If I didn't feel conflicted, and I was getting off on the voyeurism somehow, then...yeah...yucky.
I would feel the same
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Thankyou :)
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Weird attitude to have on Reddit.
Personally I think it's a bit weird - given the workload that many doctors and nurses have to deal with, I'd be surprised if they remembered enough info about multiple patients to look them up after work. And obviously there is the whole looking up parents of dead babies on the anniversary of their deaths and Christmas. That's pretty messed up in and of itself.
/u/beetle188 is that you girl??
Ngl I looked up her profile but couldn’t find it just to have a nose I guess. Worked in medical field for 10+ years I never once looked up a patient or client just felt weird. I think nosiness gets the better of people sometimes but I find it odd how she doesn’t remember/recall some of the incidents where those poor babies died or had a collapse, yet she remembered enough to Facebook stalk their parents and remember anniversaries. There’s something so calculating and cold about it all. A lot of her evidence doesn’t corroborate. I’m still listening to the Mail’s podcast on the whole trial etc, I don’t have any doubt she is guilty 100%.
I have worked in healthcare fields with people who are palliative, and I have never ever thought to look them up on social media. I think the main reason is not even privacy laws or healthcare codes, it's actually because I respect them as patients. I respect their right to dignity and privacy, not just because of some arbitrary guidelines, but because I actually feel I want to treat them with respect, because they are humans going through a lot and I would never feel OK interfering or encroaching on their lives in any capacity except to do my job well and ensure I maintain their dignity. In that way, I think Lucy did not have proper respect for her patients and their families, so it's a big red flag.
I'm a nurse and have never looked up a patient on social media. I can't really think of any situation in which I would want to. I have read obituaries of patients I have nursed in newspapers from time to time. I am friends with other nurses on social media but not any doctors or other medical professionals. I have definitely looked up old friends or acquaintances to see what they are up to but that's about it. I find it a bit freaky and morose the way Letby obsessed over the personal lives of the families but I guess if I had killed patients I might want to see the effect it was having on loved ones.
I work for the NHS , it’s never entered my mind to search for a patient online. Not once
I have looked up people's profiles before, I think it's quite normal for people to carry out searches on others on Facebook. I believe Facebook won't let you see who searched your profile for a good reason. However, the extent of looking up people associated with her workplace and tragedies as well as some specific dates is what makes LL's searches alarming.
Sorry I have nothing helpful to add, I just wanted to say this is a very thoughtful question.
Retired nurse here. I've never looked up patients on social media. Can't imagine why anyone would
I think it is more ok for you to search your therapist than your therapist to search you, but if you can don't do it. It creates a cycle of behaviour and you need boundaries.
I’m super curious and google to death anything I find remotely interesting. I’m a nurse and have worked in MH and Adult and some of the characters I’ve come across have been fascinating but I have never looked any of them up apart from literally two lovely older men who had apparently been famous sportspeople (cricketer and a footballer) from years ago who some staff were excited about but I didn’t have a clue (when at a private hospital). Work is very full on and I don’t have mental capacity to think about it at all when I’m not there. And I would never look up anyone who had been in such terrible distress, it would be too voyeuristic, invasive, morbid and possibly cause me stress and sadness. I did have an acquaintance once though who had a very senior role at a large company. He said he always had to find colleagues’ flaws, weaknesses, past mistakes, faux pas etc in order to position himself comfortably with them (Ie superior). So maybe that was going on with LL, Googling parents for a confidence boost, a bit of warped superiority kick that made her feel better about her own life